Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #644 Anxiety in Children with Dr Anthea Rhodes

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#644 Anxiety in Children with Dr Anthea Rhodes · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Time poor parent who just wants answers Now. Last month
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: was Mental Health Awareness Month, and during the month we
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  Speaker 1: spent a lot of time talking about the big challenges
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  Speaker 1: that families are having, especially parents with their children when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to mental health challenges. One thing that we
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  Speaker 1: didn't talk about at all, because I've been waiting for
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  Speaker 1: this conversation, even though it's around about six weeks over
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  Speaker 1: dune now was a conversation about anxiety. We talked about depression,
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  Speaker 1: we talked about ADHD, we talked about autism, we talked
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  Speaker 1: about parents who are cracking and experiencing burnout. But we
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  Speaker 1: didn't touch on anxiety. And that's because I knew that
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  Speaker 1: the Royal Children's Hospital Health Pole, the RCCH National Child
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  Speaker 1: Health Pole about anxiety in children was coming out. It
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  Speaker 1: actually did come out a while ago, but it's been
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  Speaker 1: really hard for me to find the space and the
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  Speaker 1: time to track down Doctor Anthea Rhodes. Anthea is a pediatrician,
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  Speaker 1: a researcher, a child health advocate, and she runs the
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  Speaker 1: RCH Health Pole and has been on the podcast a
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  Speaker 1: few times to talk about its findings. The latest one
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  Speaker 1: was all about anxiety in our kids, and doctor Anthea
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  Speaker 1: Rhodes joins me right now to talk about the poll.
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  Speaker 1: Great to have you along, Anthea. The poll found that
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  Speaker 1: parents are reporting that half of their kids are experiencing
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  Speaker 1: problems with anxiety. Was as much of a surprise to you.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, great to be here justin and talk about this
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  Speaker 2: topic today, It was not really a surprise. And I
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  Speaker 2: think as a parent as you are, and you know
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  Speaker 2: most of the listeners out there will be, and also
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  Speaker 2: as a doctor, anxiety is everywhere at the moment. That's
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  Speaker 2: the sense we're getting, and doing this survey and asking
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  Speaker 2: parents out there to tell us about what's happening in
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  Speaker 2: their homes has really confirmed that. So around half of
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  Speaker 2: parents reported that their children had had some challenges with anxiety.
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  Speaker 3: Most of those children had what would.
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  Speaker 2: Be called moderate challenges or parents might have described it
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  Speaker 2: as somewhat of a problem, with a smaller proportion around
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  Speaker 2: twelve percent having a really big challenge with anxiety.
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  Speaker 1: So, Anthew, this was a pole that was conducted exclusively
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  Speaker 1: in Victoria. Yes, to what extent do you think that
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  Speaker 1: this is a function of the exacerbated and significant lockdowns
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  Speaker 1: at Victoria experience compared to much of the rest of
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  Speaker 1: the nation.
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  Speaker 2: Look, it's really difficult to say exactly you know, which
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  Speaker 2: elements caused what, but we definitely know from other research
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  Speaker 2: as well that lockdown, some of which we did here
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  Speaker 2: through the Health Pole where we looked at experiences in
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  Speaker 2: Victoria compared to experiences in other states and territories in Australia,
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  Speaker 2: where the restrictions were different For the most part, they
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  Speaker 2: were shorter and less severe, and we saw that impacts
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  Speaker 2: were greater in Victoria. So there's definitely a dose relationship
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  Speaker 2: if you like, related to lockdown that is probably playing
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  Speaker 2: out here for Victorian families. But that said, there are
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  Speaker 2: lots of other factors that look to have contributed to
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  Speaker 2: beyond just the lockdown. So for families who are not
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  Speaker 2: in Victoria, there were still a lot of limitations around
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  Speaker 2: travel perhaps and the ability to see and get support
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  Speaker 2: from family members, you know, into state or perhaps overseas.
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  Speaker 2: There was a lot of worry and anxiety and anticipation
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  Speaker 2: about possible lockdowns, which in itself was stressful even if
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  Speaker 2: that lockdown didn't you know, eventuate, And of course there
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  Speaker 2: were experiences.
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  Speaker 3: That were financial for a lot of families.
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  Speaker 2: Too, and one in four to five families in Australia
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  Speaker 2: had some sort of financial pressure related to the pandemic
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  Speaker 2: and the restrictions, so change of work, loss of income
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  Speaker 2: and those sorts of things all feed into anxiety in
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  Speaker 2: households that you.
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  Speaker 3: Know, children live, feel and experience.
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  Speaker 2: So lots of things about the pandemic, not just the
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  Speaker 2: lockdown itself, but all of those things having an effect, and.
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  Speaker 1: Those those financial challenges have just shifted with the inflation
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  Speaker 1: issues that we're dealing with, the interest rate and that
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  Speaker 1: kind of thing. Anthea, I want to ask you a
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  Speaker 1: question about the overall findings here with anxiety from a
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  Speaker 1: parenting point of view. What are you finding in relation
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  Speaker 1: to parents understanding what anxiety is and how it's affecting
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  Speaker 1: their children, or even knowing what they should be looking
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  Speaker 1: for in children. I mean, anxiety has kind of become
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  Speaker 1: the common cold of mental illness. It used to be depression,
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  Speaker 1: but nowadays it's anxiety. And sometimes I meet parents who
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  Speaker 1: commits that children have anxiety because they're worried because they're
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  Speaker 1: having a rough old time. But obviously there's a massive
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  Speaker 1: difference between being worried, being apprehensive having some anxiety and
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  Speaker 1: having an anxiety disorder, What did you.
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  Speaker 3: Find in it?
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely so anxiety itself is a normal thing. So it's
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  Speaker 2: a type of worry that children and adults will experience
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  Speaker 2: in response to stress. And that is something that we
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  Speaker 2: have all the time in different ways. You know, every
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  Speaker 2: day there will be elements ofurry or fear or anxiety
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  Speaker 2: and responding to those is part of how we develop
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  Speaker 2: and it's a healthy thing. So it is important for
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  Speaker 2: us not to feel like overcall anxiety or decide that
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  Speaker 2: every little worry represents a big problem. The challenge, as
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  Speaker 2: if described, is where do we understand that line that
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  Speaker 2: means those worries or anxieties have become more of a
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  Speaker 2: problem and what we would describe in a medical sense
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  Speaker 2: as a disorder or a condition.
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  Speaker 3: And that's really hard for parents.
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  Speaker 2: And we actually found that, you know, that was something
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  Speaker 2: that about a third of parent said that they were
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  Speaker 2: not confident about. They wouldn't know when those worries and
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  Speaker 2: fears actually represented a problem that they might need to
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  Speaker 2: seek help for. So the really important thing, and that
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  Speaker 2: I talk about all the time with families is thinking
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  Speaker 2: about function.
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  Speaker 3: So that means getting on with the regular activities of life.
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  Speaker 2: If you have anything affecting that, then you really do
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  Speaker 2: have something of a problem.
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  Speaker 3: So if we think about it for adults.
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  Speaker 2: If an adult has worries or anxiety that mean they
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  Speaker 2: aren't able to get to work, or perhaps they're not
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  Speaker 2: able to socialize with other people, they're in the house
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  Speaker 2: a lot, they're not interacting, or they're withdrawing from activities,
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  Speaker 2: then we would say, oh, I think I'm worried.
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  Speaker 3: About that person. You know, this might be becoming a problem
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  Speaker 3: for them.
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  Speaker 2: Very similarly, for kids, we have to think about, well,
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  Speaker 2: what are their sort of essential functions. What do we
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  Speaker 2: need and expect them to be able to do to
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  Speaker 2: have a happy, healthy life. And that means interacting with
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  Speaker 2: their friends, their peers, socializing.
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  Speaker 3: That means getting to school or for younger children getting
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  Speaker 3: to kindergarten, you know, being able to go and engage
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  Speaker 3: and learn and thrive.
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  Speaker 2: Being able to do that everyday, things like eat and sleep,
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  Speaker 2: not perfectly every day, but enough that you don't feel
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  Speaker 2: like this is affecting their ability to just get on
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  Speaker 2: with life. So for families, I say, if these things
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  Speaker 2: are affecting your child's ability to get on with life
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  Speaker 2: and it's ongoing, you know, for more than at least
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  Speaker 2: a period of a few weeks. Then that is a
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  Speaker 2: sign that perhaps something more is going on there and
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  Speaker 2: it's time to reach out for some help.
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  Speaker 1: What are kids most anxious about?
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  Speaker 2: So in our study we ask specifically about school and
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  Speaker 2: kindergarten environments, and this was one of the biggest sources
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  Speaker 2: of anxiety that parents had noted. Now that might also
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  Speaker 2: be because it's something that's more obvious. We know that
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  Speaker 2: kids need to go to these places every day, and
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  Speaker 2: if there's a challenge getting them there, it's really clear
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  Speaker 2: we can't avoid it easily and it stands out as
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  Speaker 2: an issue. So that separation for school or kindergarten is
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  Speaker 2: one of the more commonly identified sources of anxiety that
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  Speaker 2: parents told us about.
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  Speaker 3: But then there are other things that might be an
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  Speaker 3: issue as well.
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  Speaker 2: So that could be interacting socially in other settings, so
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  Speaker 2: perhaps sports or other extracurricular activities. It might be really
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  Speaker 2: specific to an activity at home, so it might be
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  Speaker 2: anxiety around eating, It might be anxiety around sleeping or
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  Speaker 2: going to bed. For some children, they may have a
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  Speaker 2: really specific phobia or a fear of something in particular
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  Speaker 2: and that could be anything from spiders to heights to
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  Speaker 2: small spaces, the sorts of things that we know about
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  Speaker 2: as adults as well, so it can show up in
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  Speaker 2: all kinds of ways.
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  Speaker 1: When I see these data and compare it to some
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  Speaker 1: recent research that came from actually it's not that recent now,
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  Speaker 1: it's a little bit older, but I compare it to
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  Speaker 1: some data that's come out from the Austrainians Should of
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  Speaker 1: Health and Welfare. I think among children aged twelve to eighteen,
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  Speaker 1: anxieties now the number one disorder, the number one thing
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  Speaker 1: that's creating dysfunction in our kids. It's obviously a growing problem.
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  Speaker 1: And this may be a little bit speculative. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know if you collected data on this or not anthea,
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  Speaker 1: But outside of issues related to going to school or
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  Speaker 1: things related to the lockdown, what do you think is
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  Speaker 1: driving the increase in anxiety? Like, why do you think
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  Speaker 1: the kids today are more anxious than they were? I've
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  Speaker 1: got a few hypotheses, but I'd love to know what
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  Speaker 1: you think why kid's more anxious today than they were
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  Speaker 1: ten years ago, twenty years ago, certainly forty or fifty
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  Speaker 1: years ago.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, we definitely haven't studied this, I'll put that
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  Speaker 2: up front, and that would be quite a complex thing
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  Speaker 2: to try and study, but there are lots of theories
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  Speaker 2: there and there are some things that we do know
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  Speaker 2: that might help us to understand. So what is it
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  Speaker 2: that helps people to be less anxious? And you know,
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  Speaker 2: are we doing enough of that? And that's one of
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  Speaker 2: the things that we often think about and can reflect
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  Speaker 2: on with kids and with adults as well, and that's
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  Speaker 2: having time to be disconnected, to actually have some space mentally,
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  Speaker 2: have enough sleep and rest and down time to actually,
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  Speaker 2: if you like, switch the brain off and recharge so
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  Speaker 2: that it's not operating at a really high baseline all
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  Speaker 2: the time, meaning that little things can tip it up
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  Speaker 2: into a state of anxiety. So what we really know
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  Speaker 2: about our society now is that we're all, you know,
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  Speaker 2: living at a very fast pace.
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  Speaker 3: And that's happening to our kids as well. So from a.
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  Speaker 2: Younger and younger age, they're connected digitally, you know, they're online,
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  Speaker 2: they're communicating with friends, with family, they're thinking about things
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  Speaker 2: all the time, and that adds a level of stress.
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  Speaker 2: Not all stress is bad, but if you have a
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  Speaker 2: constant high level of stress, then it makes it much
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  Speaker 2: more likely that you might tip into a state where
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  Speaker 2: things are becoming a problem. So I feel like it's probably,
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  Speaker 2: you know, a reflection of a lot of things that
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  Speaker 2: are happening in the way we live.
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  Speaker 3: And then the other.
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  Speaker 2: Theory, if you like, that's part of this, is that
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  Speaker 2: we're maybe a bit better at recognizing things than we
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  Speaker 2: used to be as well. So we hear about anxiety more,
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  Speaker 2: and some of that might be because it is happening more,
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  Speaker 2: and we've had lots of things happened in our lives,
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  Speaker 2: as we've talked about in the last few years in particular,
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  Speaker 2: that certainly have contributed to anxiety. But we're also better
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  Speaker 2: at spotting it and talking about it and calling it out,
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  Speaker 2: and so maybe some of it's always.
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  Speaker 3: Been there, you know, but we haven't recognized it as much.
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  Speaker 2: I reflect on, you know, someone I knew growing up,
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  Speaker 2: for example, who used to have We grew up and
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  Speaker 2: went to a school where we went to church, and
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  Speaker 2: every time there was a church service, she would be
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  Speaker 2: vomiting and sort of have to leave.
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  Speaker 3: And there was this theory that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the idea was, oh, well, she's allergic to the
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  Speaker 2: incense and that was why she had to go out
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  Speaker 2: but in fact, as she got older, it became apparent
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  Speaker 2: that she really had a fear of large crowds and
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  Speaker 2: being in a small space.
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  Speaker 3: But no one even thought about that.
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  Speaker 2: Everyone decided it was something physical, and no one was
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  Speaker 2: thinking about anxiety. This is a while ago, I'm getting on,
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  Speaker 2: and I think we've really progressed a long.
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  Speaker 3: Way since then.
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  Speaker 2: But there are many situations like that where perhaps we
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  Speaker 2: didn't spot the signs, and we're still not always able
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  Speaker 2: to spot the signs, and we found that in our
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  Speaker 2: study again, but I do think we're getting better at it.
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  Speaker 2: So some of the increased anxiety is maybe us just
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  Speaker 2: knowing that it's there, and some of it is probably
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  Speaker 2: a result of the way we're living.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm going to do a bit of a summary
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  Speaker 1: of everything we've talked about. There's there's so many things
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  Speaker 1: that we've touched on, and they matter. First off, around
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  Speaker 1: about half of parents or half of children age three
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  Speaker 1: and over, I should say, experiencing problems with anxiety. You
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  Speaker 1: said that I think just over a third. I think
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  Speaker 1: thirty six percent of experiencing somewhat of a problem, And
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  Speaker 1: I think you said twelve percent of experiencing a big
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  Speaker 1: problem with anxiety. That's kids over three. Second thing that
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  Speaker 1: I heard you say that really stood out to me
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  Speaker 1: is that a lot of parents are struggling to differentiate
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  Speaker 1: between kids that are having a tough time being a
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  Speaker 1: bit worried about something and actually experiencing anxiety and are
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: therefore not quite sure when they should seek help. And
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  Speaker 1: the third big take home message that I've picked up
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  Speaker 1: from our conversation is that we can reduce the likelihood
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  Speaker 1: that children will experience dysfunction with anxiety because anxiety is
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  Speaker 1: normal and healthy and it keeps us alive.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Anxiety is actually something that we need in our lives,
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  Speaker 1: just not too much and not at the wrong times.
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  Speaker 1: But what I'm really hearing you say is sleep, exercise, nature,
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  Speaker 1: good relationships. Those things are shown empirically to be really,
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  Speaker 1: really valuable. The last thing that I want to ask
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  Speaker 1: you about, and I think this is probably the most
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  Speaker 1: important thing of all, is if I've got a child
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  Speaker 1: who's struggling, if I'm not sure if they've got anxiety
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  Speaker 1: or not. I mean, they're still functioning, but they're maybe
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  Speaker 1: a bit miserable, they're refusing to participate in some activities.
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  Speaker 1: They require a lot of coaxing a lot of effort.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe they're a bit emotional, perhaps withdrawn. Where do I
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  Speaker 1: go for help? Where do I go to find out?
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  Speaker 1: What advice would you give to parents if they just
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  Speaker 1: want to either get some assurance that things are okay
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  Speaker 1: and this is just a temperamental thing with the child,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: or if they need to know that they are actually
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  Speaker 1: dealing with something a little bit more serious.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well, we've developed a great suite of resources
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  Speaker 2: for this exact sort of situation, just an online so
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  Speaker 2: rhdot org au forward slash anxiety where we've got some
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  Speaker 2: resources there to help parents think through those possible signs
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  Speaker 2: and also links to a number of really great online
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  Speaker 2: programs which is often a good place for parents to
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  Speaker 2: start that can support them with some strategies around that
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  Speaker 2: anxiety and help them to recognize, you know, whether this
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  Speaker 2: is more of a problem or something that they might
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: need more help for. The Other thing that I think
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  Speaker 2: is really important is talking to your child's school teacher
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: or kindergarten teacher, or if they're younger and in perhaps
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: an early learning environment, the educator.
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  Speaker 3: There is really helpful thing to do early as well.
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  Speaker 2: They've often got a really good insight into how your
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: child is coping outside of home, and they understand kids
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  Speaker 2: and kids development very well and can also often offer
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  Speaker 2: some strategies and some thoughts about, you know, what you
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  Speaker 2: might do next. Of course, the GP is also so
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  Speaker 2: a fabulous place to start and where.
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  Speaker 3: You need it being linked in then with a counselor
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  Speaker 3: or a psychologist to get some strategies.
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  Speaker 2: And I really would encourage parents to do that early
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  Speaker 2: if they're feeling concerned, because the other really important thing
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  Speaker 2: that we know is that if you can get a
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  Speaker 2: few strategies happening early on, perhaps at the beginning of
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: some of those problems, it's going to be a lot
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: easier to actually improve things than if you wait a
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  Speaker 2: long time and the problems more entrenched, it can be
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  Speaker 2: much more difficult, you know, to undo patterns and learn
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: new skills to cope with that anxiety.
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  Speaker 1: Really appreciate that advice. We will link to the to
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the RCH Anxiety page in our show notes for parents
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: that want more information. Love talking to you. Thank you
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: so much for joining me. Doctor Antheero, It's pediatrician and
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: head of the RCH National Child Health Pole. Always always
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: love talking to you.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: My pleasure. Thanks for having me on the show.
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  Speaker 1: Justin, Yeah, wonderful, wonderful conversation. We love checking in with
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: doctor Rhodes and getting the latest from the National Childhealth
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Pole when they come out, and will bring you more
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: evidence when we get the next data through. The Happy
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Crag Bruce is our executive producer and for more information
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: about making your family happier, visit us at happy families
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: dot com dot au.