Latest / Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk / Oscar Mike Radio – 508 – Neil Adams - FROM THE PILE

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Oscar Mike Radio – 508 – Neil Adams - FROM THE PILE · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

1:01
Irene, I say again. Irene.
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Brain to Perfect for the Body. Am I in your arrest?
3:06
He results in innocent man in front of his wife.
3:09
And be in the group. Do you remember any of that?
3:12
Does the defendant have any priors?
3:14
Resisting arrest, DUI, assault? Hey, my client has been awarded
3:20
a Purple Heart and a bronze star medal for his combat service.
3:23
I'm ordering you to undergo a 60 day outpatient rehabilitation
3:26
program. Good luck.
3:31
No, I'm not doing that. Do.
3:32
You know what the VA S put me through?
3:33
If you have a brain in your head, you're going to listen to
3:35
me right now. Because the next time you try to
3:37
provoke a lethal response from law enforcement, you might not
3:39
have an Angel sitting on your shoulder.
3:41
The courts think that you're going to fix me.
3:43
I hate to disappoint you, but I can't fix you.
3:46
That's your job, not mine. Did you know that your father
3:49
got out? He's a dangerous man.
3:51
Calvin, be careful. We came back and they spat on us
3:55
at the airport. No homecoming.
3:58
Parade, no celebrations. And you can't pretend like you
4:01
have any idea what it's like to be in combat.
4:04
No, But what I do know is this field of work that I've
4:08
dedicated my life to has helped. A lot of.
4:10
People, when you got back, something was different.
4:14
It wasn't that you'd changed, you'd been replaced.
4:20
You lose your morality when you go to war, and the hard part is
4:24
coming back to a civilian society that doesn't have any
4:27
idea what's going on in your head.
4:30
It's hard to. Believe my enemy, he's the man I
4:34
used to. Be I bet you wonder where's my
4:37
tribe? And I ain't talking about no
4:39
friendship neither. I'm talking about brotherhood.
4:45
What is it that you truly? Want Calvin?
4:47
I just want to wake up in the morning and feel something.
4:53
My pain is relative, son. Sometimes we got to fall apart
4:57
to find ourselves all over again.
5:01
Wait for me there. Wait for me.
5:05
There you were. Willing to give your life for
5:07
your country now maybe you can try living for it.
5:16
What are you feeding this guy? Look at that.
5:18
What do you want? I did 4 tours of The Cheesecake
5:21
Factory. Oh, OK, Little spicy, little
5:25
spicy. The movie, music, news,
6:05
television, promos, trailers and videos used by OM Radio are
6:09
protected by the Fair Use Act, Section 107 of the Copyright
6:13
Act. None.
6:31
For the effect of the use upon the potential market for or
6:35
value of the copyrighted work. What does the life after service
6:39
look like? Kicking back, taking it easy.
6:45
We believe it looks a little different.
6:48
It looks like leading for all veterans, helping shape policies
6:51
to make certain they get the benefits they've earned, and
6:54
ensuring every veteran's voice is heard.
6:59
It's like advancing to meet today's veterans where they are
7:02
lifting them up and strengthening the bond that
7:05
unites. US.
7:07
It looks like rolling up our sleeves, serving those in need,
7:11
and cleaning up our communities to make them better for
7:13
everyone. Because a veteran's mission
7:17
never truly ends, and neither does ours.
7:24
The VFW still leading, still advancing, still
7:29
servinggetinvolved@stillserving.org. Hello and welcome to OM Radio.
7:44
My name is Travis, Marine Corps veteran and your host OM Radio
7:49
is Co produced with Sensitive One Productions.
7:51
What's your podcast doing? We're coming up to or right on
7:55
when the show releases September 11th.
8:00
That happened 25 years ago, and I had wondered for a while how I
8:05
was going to do this because in a way, this one event changed so
8:10
many lives. And I had the opportunity to
8:13
talk with a different kind of guest, as you will discover, who
8:17
wrote a book about his dear friend's time serving during
8:23
this catastrophe that happened to the American people.
8:26
And he wrote the book from the pile.
8:30
Neil Adams, welcome to Ask Mike Radio.
8:32
I'm looking forward to learning about the book, Michael, and
8:35
your history together. Thank you so much.
8:38
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Travis.
8:40
It's a privilege to be here with you.
8:44
You know, The funny thing was I, I, I'm, I'm like, it's the 25
8:50
years. It's been 25 years, Neil.
8:52
Yeah, flies, doesn't it? Do you still remember where you
8:56
were when this all happened? Oh, yeah, definitely.
9:01
Yeah. I was living back in San
9:03
Francisco, where I where I am now.
9:06
I had gone to work early in the day, which is usually my
9:09
pattern. I'm I'm up early, I'm in the
9:11
office early. I like to get parking.
9:14
At the time I was living in still in Marin County in Mill
9:18
Valley, which is north of the Golden Gate Bridge.
9:21
But my job was in the city. I was there very early.
9:24
I was probably there by 6:30 or 7 Pacific Time.
9:30
And I was talking to a friend, colleague of mine who was
9:34
working from home, and I had the radio on and he had the
9:37
television on. And he said that, Oh my God,
9:39
that a plane just hit one of the towers at the World Trade
9:43
Center. And then the second one hit and
9:47
he thought, you better leave. I mean, nothing's going to
9:49
happen today. The country's at war.
9:52
I was nervous. I thought, Oh my goodness, I
9:54
mean, I didn't. No one knew what was going to
9:56
happen. And I was wanting to get back
9:59
home because I had to get across a bridge.
10:00
And I thought, what if a plane takes out a bridge?
10:03
You know, here that could happen too.
10:04
Luckily that didn't happen. But that's where I was on that
10:08
day and was definitely wondering about Michael on that day too.
10:12
So I knew I hadn't heard from him, but I knew that if I'd
10:16
heard something that happened to him that I would hear about it.
10:18
But but anyway, so I remember that day very clearly.
10:23
Yeah, it's really strange how I remember that I was which
10:28
building in my company's office, I was in what floor, what I was
10:31
doing. And all of a sudden we're seeing
10:34
the TV's go to, you know, MSNBC, Fox News, CNN, all about this.
10:39
And then a half hour later, there's this, this the these
10:43
flood of people trying to get out of Boston.
10:45
It was, it was really surreal. Yeah.
10:50
As I got to know your story and the book and the reason for
10:55
Ryan, I was most interested in this aspect of relationships.
11:02
Like the book is about Michael Dorian, who, you know, served up
11:07
until the last he had AIDS. He went into the rubble and and,
11:13
you know, dug people out, served his his fellow man and the
11:18
friendship you all had, how close you all were, but also the
11:22
person himself in you were vulnerable writing the book.
11:26
But there's also a vulnerability about Michael that you really
11:29
communicated. Before we get into all that,
11:32
though, what what led you to write this book?
11:36
Because this is not the normal kind of like buddy book, bro
11:39
book, sidekick book, friend, book lover book that you
11:42
normally read, right? This is this is very different
11:46
for a very different reason. I'd like to kind of dig into
11:48
that. Sure, sure.
11:49
No, I'm happy to. When I first met Michael back in
11:53
931993, I used to be an actor and I had moved to New York to
12:01
for a job. I was touring the Eastern states
12:03
doing educational theatre, and when my tour ended, I stayed in
12:07
New York and wanted to live the kind of romantic actor's life.
12:12
And I got a job working the graveyard shift at some pizza
12:15
dive on the Upper West Side. And one day during the one
12:19
Saturday night at 2, AMA Rush came in and Michael was part of
12:24
that rush. He was drunk.
12:27
We were super busy. And my friend who I was working
12:29
that shift with said, hey, you know, that guy's checking you
12:32
out. And I thought, no one's checking
12:34
me out. I'm running around like crazy,
12:36
like both of us were. Everyone was drunk and just
12:39
wanted pizza slices to soak up all the alcohol.
12:42
And. But then he said, no, no, no,
12:43
he's really checking you out. And I looked over and saw
12:46
Michael. And Michael smiled at me and he
12:48
had a little twinkle in his eye. And, you know, it's such a great
12:51
grin. And I thought, well, this is a
12:53
good looking guy, OK. But I also thought he's drunk
12:56
and whatever, you know, he's just drunk.
12:59
But I went over and as I was checking on the tables and he
13:03
started chatting me up and we ended up trading phone numbers.
13:06
And I thought, this guy's never going to call me.
13:08
He's never going to even remember.
13:10
But he did. He called me the next day and he
13:14
first thing he said, it's like, did you think I wasn't going to
13:15
call? And I said, yeah, but I'm glad
13:18
you did. And we were on the phone for
13:21
over an hour and just really hit it off, became very fast
13:24
friends. And, you know, we agreed to get
13:27
together and I wasn't sure where it was going to go because it
13:30
was clearly a pickup. But, you know, as I could tell
13:34
pretty quickly that Michael was a lot more experienced than I
13:38
was. I, you know, I was gay, but I
13:40
came out very late and I could tell that Michael had had a lot
13:43
more experiences and relationships than I had had.
13:46
And I was interested in him but wasn't sure where it was going
13:50
to go. And at some point, I, you know,
13:53
I thought like, you know, this guy's out of my league, but I
13:56
like him so much. And I really want to be in his
13:59
life and I really want him to be in mine and said, you know,
14:02
Michael, I would really like us just to be friends.
14:04
I don't think we should date. Can we just be friends?
14:07
And he said, you know, no one's ever just wanted to be friends
14:10
with me. Everyone always wanted either
14:11
date me or wanted something out of me and just wanting to like
14:14
me for me. And that was the basis of our
14:18
friendship. And as I got to know him and
14:21
learned about his early life, I thought, I have to write this
14:24
guy's story. I mean, his upbringing was
14:26
diametrically opposed to the way I was raised.
14:30
He, you know, was the second son of a teenage mother.
14:35
His older brother had gotten into crime.
14:38
He was in the stealing cars and drugs, but, you know, with a
14:41
teenage mother who really didn't want to have kids and was
14:45
resentful for being a mother at a young age.
14:47
And she felt like her life was stolen away from her.
14:51
And it was a very difficult upbringing for Michael.
14:55
And he, you know, saw his older brother getting into crime,
14:59
stealing cars and saw this was a great way to make some easy
15:02
money, rode along with his older brother a couple of times.
15:05
And then Michael thought, well, I can steal cars on my own.
15:08
What's the big deal? And he tried to do it when he
15:11
was a teenager and got caught the first time out.
15:14
So his life of crime ended then and there.
15:16
But the other thing that happened to him is that he he
15:20
was living up in the Bronx at the time.
15:22
He's a native New Yorker. And he knew that there were men
15:25
that were gathering in a park near him and they were gathering
15:28
to have sex. And Michael knew he was gay.
15:31
And it's a teenager. He snuck out of his, you know,
15:35
apartment where he was living with his mother at times and was
15:38
hooking up with men and making money being a male prostitute as
15:42
a teenager. And those types of things I just
15:47
thought were, well, I, that didn't happen to me at all.
15:49
But I knew I just had to write his story because he overcomes
15:54
so many adversities just in his young life.
15:56
And we can, we can talk more about that too.
15:57
But when we first met, I wanted to write his life story.
16:01
And is it he started sharing some things about it.
16:05
He said, you know, I don't know if I want to do this.
16:06
There were some things in his past that he wasn't proud of.
16:10
One of the main things being the fact that because he was a male
16:14
prostitute, he got AIDS. He he got, he became HIV
16:19
positive very early in the AIDS epidemic.
16:22
He was diagnosed when he was 16 years old that he was HIV
16:28
positive when he was still in high school.
16:30
That year was 1983. And, you know, he didn't know
16:35
quite what to do with it. No one did.
16:37
I mean, the government wasn't doing anything to help find a
16:40
cure for HIV or AIDS. And they basically thought of
16:44
AIDS as a, you know, a gay cancer in a way to kind of
16:47
eradicate some people that necessarily were wanted.
16:51
And so it was a scary time for a lot of us.
16:54
And Michael, I guess, dealt with it.
16:57
I mean, he luckily found a Doctor Who was a leading AIDS
17:01
specialist at the time. And so he was able to get on AZT
17:04
very early. But he also had accidentally
17:08
infected someone with HIV when he was young.
17:11
He was probably 19 or 20 when that happened.
17:13
And when Michael disclosed that to me, he was like, you know, I
17:16
don't know if I want to talk about my life anymore because,
17:19
you know, I'm not very proud of it.
17:20
And I thought, OK, well, we don't have to talk about your
17:22
life. And I can drop the idea of
17:24
writing a life story. But I always kept it in the back
17:27
of my mind. And years later when I.
17:30
Just just just just to clarify real quick, Neil, So when you
17:33
met him and started talking to him, you wanted to write right
17:36
then there the the connection, something about Michael said,
17:40
you know what? This is a This is a story worth
17:42
writing about. Right.
17:44
Absolutely. Yeah.
17:45
Having, you know, a team. Go ahead.
17:47
You, you, your background as an actor, where is the writing side
17:51
of you come from and all this. Well, I come from a family of
17:55
writers actually, so we have a kind of creative bench to me.
17:59
My father was a journalism major, my uncle was a reporter
18:03
for a local newspaper. My grandfather had written
18:06
several books. I have another uncle who was in
18:09
advertising. So there's all these writers
18:12
that were around me and I was always interested in it.
18:14
But I gravitated towards acting and singing because I was a
18:19
sickly kid. I had asthma.
18:22
I was in a body cast when I was in when I was 10 years old for
18:25
two months and had to learn how to walk again.
18:27
So I wasn't athletic at all. But I had some talent, I
18:31
suppose, and gravitated towards acting and singing.
18:35
And that was that was a great way for me to, I mean, explore
18:40
other people and understand different relationships as I was
18:44
hiding my own gayness, you know, I guess because I was, I was
18:48
closeted. I, you know, growing up in Marin
18:50
County at the time was not a great place for gay people.
18:54
I mean, a lot of people in my schools were ridiculing other
18:57
people that they thought were gay, and my skin wasn't thick
19:00
enough to deal with that. So I was very closeted.
19:03
But Michael's life was so different from mine and the way
19:07
he embraced things. And I thought, I have to write
19:09
this guy's story. It's just really interesting to
19:12
me. So yeah, I was interested in
19:14
writing his story from pretty much when we first met.
19:18
And Michael was into it for a while.
19:20
And then, you know, as I mentioned, once he disclosed
19:24
that he had infected someone with HIV, he thought, like,
19:26
never mind. I don't think this isn't
19:28
something I'm proud of, but I kept the idea in the back of my
19:31
mind. And as our friendship went
19:33
through its own ups and downs, we went through a period where
19:36
we weren't speaking for about four, 4 1/2 years.
19:41
And when we reconnected, that's when I learned that he was a
19:43
first responder on 9/11. And he was telling me those
19:47
stories. And I thought it just reignited
19:49
the interest in me. I thought, I have to write this
19:51
guy's story at some point if he'll let me.
19:54
And, and I never brought it up again, You know, as our
19:56
friendship continued for, you know, almost 30 years and close
20:01
toward the end, when Michael was getting sick, you know, I asked
20:05
him. I said, you know, Michael, I
20:06
would still really like to write your story and Share your story
20:09
with other people. And would you be all right if I
20:11
did that? And he gave me his blessing.
20:13
So that's what I did. Did he tell you what led him to
20:19
become a first responder paramedic?
20:22
Yeah, he, well, he was a veterinary technician.
20:25
I mean, he that was his profession.
20:28
He had, he was the only one in his family to graduate high
20:31
school or to go to college and graduate college.
20:34
And he studied veterinary medicine and he specialized in
20:38
exotic animals. He was a big animal person.
20:41
He loved them. And when 911 happened, he knew.
20:47
Michael always knew he was going to have a shortened life.
20:49
I mean, he when I knew him in New York, he had already had two
20:53
major hospitalizations, almost died twice while I was still
20:57
living with him. And Michael thought, you know, I
20:59
have, you know, when 911 happened, he, he thought, like,
21:03
I have medical expertise. I can help these people.
21:06
He had scrubs and he knew like if he got down to, to the, you
21:10
know, it was called the pile at the time.
21:12
They didn't, it wasn't called Ground Zero until probably weeks
21:15
later. But if he can make his way down
21:17
there, he knew he would get past the barricades.
21:19
No one would ask any questions about what his, you know,
21:23
medical, you know, licenses were and he contact he, you know, saw
21:30
some police officers and they said, you know, go meet the Fire
21:32
Chief over there. The Fire Chief said, like, you
21:35
know, Michael said, what can I do to help?
21:37
And Fire Chief said, you know, all these firefighters are going
21:40
on. I believe it's the north tower.
21:42
And if you can go and help the firefighters by pouring saline
21:46
solution into their eyes, because all the asbestos and the
21:50
the grit from all the debris that was from the pile, from the
21:56
smoke and everything, the ashes, everything that were there, it
21:59
was getting into all the firefighters eyes and causing
22:01
their eyes to bleed. So Michael was just for 24 hours
22:05
on the pile with them pouring saline solutions into their eyes
22:08
so they could, you know, continue their rescue efforts.
22:11
And Michael was up and down that place for for 24 hours doing
22:15
that until they discovered that he wasn't a medical doctor.
22:18
He wasn't a human doctor. And, you know, I like to joke
22:21
that the cat got out of the bag and they discovered he was a
22:24
veterinary technician. And they said, you know, you
22:27
can't stay here, you need to leave.
22:29
And that brought in the whole other part of the story, too.
22:33
Yeah, because he did it for 24 hours nonstop successfully and
22:38
helped several, you know, hundreds of people out.
22:41
Yeah. And it had to be, you know, a
22:43
little crushing when a lot crushing when he's told to
22:47
leave. Yeah, He did not want to leave.
22:50
I mean, he, he really wanted to stay longer and do more than he
22:53
could to help. And he understood that.
22:55
You know, when the Fire Chief said you cannot be here anymore,
22:58
you mean he didn't exactly. He didn't lie.
23:02
But, you know, he didn't tell them the exact truth.
23:03
But he knows he was chatting people up.
23:06
He was talking to police officers and firefighters there.
23:09
And, you know, Michael was honest about, you know, what he
23:12
did. And, you know, when that word
23:13
got back to the captain, they said, you know, it's really not
23:15
safe for you to be here. But fortunately, Michael
23:19
encountered A reporter when he left that next day.
23:24
And that reporter interviewed him and a number of other people
23:27
and just asked him what he did that day.
23:29
And unbeknownst to Michael, who knew that, you know, he was
23:33
going to have a shortened life and knew that he might get sick
23:36
from his time down there in the pile and then 15 years.
23:39
Later, was he sick before he went and worked in the pile?
23:43
He was immune compromised for sure.
23:45
He had AIDS. Yeah, he had already, you know,
23:47
when I knew him back in the early 19, really the mid 90s, he
23:50
had had major hospitalizations, you know, from pneumonia and
23:56
other things that he had caught. Does that mean that, you know,
24:01
he's in this weakened state and he goes down to he had to have
24:04
known that this might accelerate things if if I'm hearing you
24:08
rightly. Yes, absolutely so.
24:10
He made a choice. He made a choice.
24:12
He absolutely made the choice. He knew he could possibly die
24:15
that day. He didn't know what was going to
24:17
happen, but he thought, this is my city.
24:19
I have expertise. I know I can help in any way I
24:22
can. I know I can get past the
24:23
barricades. And I really think Michael
24:27
wanted to make up for some past mistakes in his life, including,
24:30
you know, infecting that gentleman with HIV and other
24:33
mistakes he had made. And he thought this is his
24:35
chance to do some good for his city and help people out and
24:38
maybe help out karmatically if that's a word to help, you know.
24:45
What's going through your mind then when you find out he's
24:48
doing all this? Well, I didn't know it at the
24:51
time. Right, right.
24:51
So what? What happened when you found
24:53
out? I was blown away.
24:56
I was like I because I wondered about Michael because we weren't
25:00
really speaking at the time when 911 happened.
25:03
And as I mentioned earlier, I wondered where he was.
25:06
But I thought like Michael. I knew Michael didn't work down
25:08
in the World Trade Center and I thought if something had
25:11
happened to him on that day, I would have heard at some point
25:14
someone would have said something to me.
25:16
But it wasn't until we reconnected and he told me the
25:19
whole story and I was very proud of him and concerned too.
25:24
And I, I mean, Michael was very healthy when we reconnected.
25:28
And so I could tell that he was fine.
25:31
And she was very proud of the fact that he's sacrificed
25:34
himself that way and really put his life on the line to help
25:36
other people. And again, that was one of the
25:39
reasons why I thought, like, this guy's a hero, you know?
25:41
And at some point I'm going to, if he'll let me write, share his
25:44
story. So, warts and all.
25:48
Well, works in all, but also you know it from a military side.
25:53
This is what you know, we're taught.
25:55
You know, you no matter what you have, you go into you go, you
25:59
move to contact, you move to fire, you locate and close with
26:03
and and it really got me as I'm learning about Michael and his
26:06
story that you know it, it appeared that he knew he was
26:10
compromised. He knew he might, you know,
26:12
accelerate things. He's like, I'm going to go
26:13
anyway. And that just spoke to a deeper
26:17
part of the person that I think, you know, need to be told.
26:21
Thank you and and Michael what wanted to serve you know, he
26:24
thought like this is my city. People need help.
26:26
I can help and I'm going to reach out and do what I can to
26:30
help. And because of his time on the
26:32
pile and in the people that he met after that, he decided to to
26:37
become a volunteer police officer or apply to become a
26:39
volunteer police officer for the NYPD.
26:42
So he continued his service for the city after that.
26:45
And he was concerned whether he was going to be accepted because
26:49
he had, you know, a couple of things against him.
26:51
He, he was HIV positive and, you know, had AIDS and his health
26:57
was something that the NYPD would certainly look at and he
27:00
wasn't sure that they would allow him to become even a
27:03
volunteer police officer on the force.
27:05
But, you know, at the time when he was doing it, he proved that
27:08
he was healthy enough. He was taking very good care of
27:11
himself. His he was very conscientious
27:14
about making sure his T cells were over 100 so that he wasn't
27:17
technically had AIDS at those times.
27:20
So that was something he was always working towards.
27:22
And he exercised a lot. He was always in good physical
27:25
condition. He took a lot of homeopathic,
27:28
you know, health remedies and things to help keep himself
27:30
healthy. So that helped him get on the
27:32
force. And then he also had an arrest,
27:35
you know, on his record, too. And he thought that could keep
27:38
him from becoming, you know, being accepted as a volunteer
27:41
police officer. But that didn't enter into it at
27:44
all, too. So he was able to do that and
27:46
continue to work and serve the city to the best of his ability,
27:49
which he did for as long as he could for the rest of his life.
27:54
Did you get to see him at all serve or did he talk to you
27:57
about when he was actually serving?
27:59
Yeah. I mean, we, we shared lots of
28:01
stories and when I I had moved back to California in 1996 and
28:07
that was one of the reasons why we had kind of a strain on our
28:10
relationship because we were 3000 miles apart and it just
28:14
upended our dynamic. But we got past it luckily.
28:18
But when I would go back to visit him, I mean, he would tell
28:21
me stories and basically he was his main dues word kind of
28:25
cruise, you know, like Central Park and make sure, you know,
28:29
breakup activities like the ones that he used to be involved with
28:32
when he was a teenager in the parks up in up in the Bronx.
28:36
So if people were having sex or doing drugs and the bushes or
28:39
anything like that, Michael would kind of break them up and
28:42
make sure the parks were safe. But he was also helping out with
28:45
security for like things like the Macy's Day Parade or MTV
28:49
events. And he got to interact with a
28:51
lot of celebrities and, and that was fun for him to do as well.
28:55
And when I would go back and visit him, he would, you know,
28:58
take me along to, you know, do some of his desk duties and, you
29:03
know, I would, you know, wait for him while he was doing some
29:05
paperwork and things there. So very supportive of the of the
29:09
fact of the work that he did. And I was joking with him, too,
29:12
because he was a veterinary technician.
29:14
And then he decided to become a volunteer police officer.
29:17
And I thought, like you going after cap burglars, why are you
29:19
doing this? So.
29:21
So we joked up What? Was it like when you were, you
29:24
know, it's like a better term, riding along with him and seeing
29:28
him, you know, live in his purpose, that he wanted that at
29:31
that time, Neil. Just immense pride and you just,
29:37
I'm so proud of the fact of the work that he was doing because I
29:40
also went with him when he was taking care of animals.
29:43
He also, you know, would, you know, do lots of house calls for
29:47
clients of his and you make sure to take care of them.
29:50
And, you know, that was Michael. He was a, you know, not only a
29:54
people pleaser, but someone who wanted to help all the people
29:56
that came within his purview. So if it was a pet owner, if
30:00
he'd make help them take care of, you know, their animals, you
30:04
know, as a volunteer police officer to help make sure the
30:06
city was safe, help his fellow officers and things like that
30:10
and just be a good friend and be a good community person, you
30:15
know, so. You do this and and as I
30:20
understand, you know, eventually, you know, hit what
30:23
he'd experienced during 9/11 did catch up with him and he passed.
30:26
Yeah. And you started writing this,
30:28
this book. How did how did the book come to
30:32
you once he was gone? You start taking up the pen or
30:35
you know the the the typewriter, the keyboard to you memorialize
30:40
Michael's life. Yeah, it was.
30:46
I mean, I had, you know, when we first started it, probably back
30:49
in the 90s, you know, I had taken notes down and written a
30:53
few things that I'd kept away. And then for me, it was because
30:57
I wasn't writing it, you know, during the, during our
31:00
friendship, I mean, it was something that I kept in the
31:02
back of my mind, but I, I wasn't sure if Michael was going to
31:05
give me his blessing. And if he hadn't had, if he
31:07
hadn't, I wouldn't have written the book.
31:10
But it was something where I would go back and look at old
31:13
emails and look at pictures and, you know, texts and things like
31:16
that. So I could remember, you know,
31:19
everything that happened and kind of put it in a
31:20
chronological state. And, and I did tell it through
31:24
my lens too. So it's also, if you want to
31:27
look at it this way, it's also the story of our friendship.
31:30
You know, even I was telling his life story, but it's, you know,
31:33
through my lens. And I know there were other
31:37
things and other people had other experiences with Michael,
31:40
but being someone who, you know, wasn't romantically involved, we
31:44
had a platonic friendship. And I could be very objective
31:48
with all the things that were happening in his life.
31:51
And I was someone who was a confidant of his.
31:54
And Michael shared a lot of concerns that he had and, you
31:58
know, anger or, you know, frustrations or wishes and wants
32:02
and things and all these things that I knew and several
32:05
conversations that we had over years.
32:07
I mean, we had, I mean, we spoke on the phone for hours at a time
32:11
and hours and hours. So a lot of things were pretty
32:13
indelible in my mind about what had happened in his life.
32:17
And when he got sick and he gave me the permission, I started,
32:21
you know, writing things down and trying to put everything
32:24
together. And it was cathartic.
32:27
Some of it was fun, but some of it was hard to write to.
32:30
And I had to kind of dig deep, you know, into my own life as
32:34
well. And as I was exploring things
32:37
and trying to understand motivations for things and his
32:41
actions, actions from his partners and the way he was
32:44
treated, all those things I just tried to, you know, put together
32:49
in a way that I thought was going to be readable.
32:55
I want to pull back the the cover a little bit, but one
32:57
thing I'm trying to understand is you do this for Michael.
33:01
Did his family give you any feedback about the book?
33:05
Did they know about it? And if they did, did they, you
33:09
know, care one way or the other? I'm just curious about that.
33:13
And then I'll ask the second part of my question.
33:15
Sure. Yeah, no.
33:17
And, and the reason for that is one of the things what happened
33:24
with his mother, who was, you know, who I knew who I was, You
33:28
know, I've known her when I was living in New York, went to
33:31
their apartment many times. And so, you know, she's reached
33:35
out lots of times. But she had a challenging.
33:38
Well, Michael had a challenging relationship with her, very much
33:41
so. I mean, she had stolen from him.
33:43
She pretty much saw Michael as an ATM machine.
33:48
And it bothered me how much she used Michael.
33:52
And at one point I blocked her. What happened was Michael had
34:00
his liver had failed. Michael had dropped dead where
34:04
he was living at the time. They called in the paramedics
34:07
and they brought him back to life.
34:08
But they brought him in the hospital.
34:11
And when that happened, the first thing she did was she
34:13
tried to get a copy of his will to see what she was going to get
34:16
out of it. And that just disgusted me.
34:18
And she had done other things that had just turned me off.
34:22
And I thought I, I have to block this woman.
34:24
I don't want her reaching out to me to find out what's going on
34:27
with Michael. And so I blocked her and that.
34:31
And when I had done that, I lost contact with her.
34:34
And I lost contact with her youngest son who I was closer
34:38
with, you know, then not as close as I was with Michael.
34:41
And I wasn't as close with his older brother, who I'd met a few
34:45
times. But, you know, he was in and out
34:46
of jail. He had dealing with drugs and
34:49
things like that and he'd he'd gone through his own stuff and
34:53
his older brother, I mean, he'd come through a lot of his own
34:57
demons too. So I was happy about that for
34:59
him. But I lost contact with them.
35:01
But I wanted to protect their privacy, so I changed their
35:04
names. You know, none of their names
35:06
are real. They weren't the type of people
35:09
that I were readers or anything like that.
35:12
So none of them graduated high school or went to college.
35:16
So they may learn about this book at some point.
35:20
But I did protect their identity.
35:22
I wanted to make sure that they were protected, you know, if
35:24
they heard about it and they could at some point, but I don't
35:27
know if they will, but I, I did this without, without their.
35:31
The other side of this question, now that we've established that,
35:33
is you know, you come from a family of, of writers.
35:36
You Michael had friends. What was what was reaction from
35:40
your family, if there were any, or some of his friends when they
35:42
started reading about Michael's story?
35:45
Well, I did share it with Michael's partner who who's his
35:49
partner at the end when Michael passed, Aaron, who was a loving
35:52
partner of Michael. And I sent him the book and he
35:56
he read. And I knew it was going to be
35:58
hard for Aaron to read it because I knew there were going
36:00
to be things from Michael's past that Aaron didn't know about.
36:04
And Aaron thought the book was good.
36:07
He appreciated it. He's, he said like, you know, a
36:09
lot of it was hard for him to get through, but you know, he
36:12
did and he appreciated it. And he was the only one who I
36:18
was still in contact with in Michael's life.
36:20
So I know Michael had other friends that I knew that had
36:24
also passed other friends who I, I, I didn't, I wasn't really in
36:29
that much contact with that I had, you know, I'd known them,
36:32
but I've never had their cell phone numbers or anything like
36:35
that. So I'm waiting to hear.
36:37
I haven't heard anything yet, so it could still happen.
36:41
But as I mentioned, like I changed everybody's name, you
36:43
know who hadn't, who I knew of and just to protect their
36:47
identities, so. Any any, any feedback from from
36:50
your family or you know, friends who may have read your book?
36:53
I'm just just curious. They, you know, everyone's like,
36:56
seem to like it. They thought it was a good
36:58
story. I mean, it's not an easy story.
37:00
It doesn't end happily. And my nephew read it and he
37:04
said he cried. You know, a lot of people have
37:07
said they read it and they were emotional and wanted to ask me
37:10
lots of questions about it. So I've gotten, I guess,
37:14
positive feedback from everyone who's read it, and I'm
37:17
appreciative of that. And but I think it's an
37:22
important story. I mean, I think Michael had a
37:24
lot of challenges. He was dealt a really shitty
37:27
hand, you know, growing up and he'd overcome a lot of
37:30
adversity. He persevered.
37:33
He was a fighter. You know, all all Michael wanted
37:36
out of life basically was to get married, have kids and have a
37:40
home, you know, have a house and those that was all he wanted.
37:44
He didn't have want any didn't want to be a famous actor.
37:47
He didn't fantasize about becoming a big sports star or
37:51
anything like that. He just wanted a very simple
37:52
life and even getting those things were really hard for him
37:56
to achieve. And he had challenging
37:59
relationships you not just with his mother, but with many of his
38:02
partners who cheated on him, who were gaslighting him.
38:07
He had feelings of guilt that he had dealt with his entire life.
38:10
And I tried to help him overcome and see what other people were
38:14
doing with him and said, Michael, you don't deserve to be
38:17
treated this way. And this is what's happening.
38:19
And all those things that I think are important for, you
38:22
know, other people to read too, because you know, if they're
38:25
dealing with challenges, you know, with relationships in
38:28
their life, be it familial or relationship wise, hopefully
38:32
they, if they can learn something from what Michael went
38:35
through to help apply to their own lives.
38:39
I that would be a great thing too.
38:40
Because Michael, like I said, he'd like to fight and persevere
38:43
and get over every obstacle and just wanted to have a good time
38:46
and help people. I think for me, reading, you
38:51
know, about the book, you know, reading some expert excerpts, I
38:54
didn't read the whole thing is I, I got a sense of life is
38:59
messy on, on a good day, on on a good day, life is messy.
39:04
But everybody has a choice. And throughout all, I'm like,
39:09
you know, OK, a lot of people wouldn't have even bothered to
39:12
try to serve on a police force. A lot of people ran the other
39:16
way away from the pile or Ground Zero.
39:20
And, and when push came to shove, when it came time for
39:24
these decision points, Michael wanted to help people.
39:28
Michael wanted a greater purpose.
39:30
And, and that's what I took away from it is no matter where we
39:33
are or what our life has been, Michael to me stands out as an
39:38
example of you can literally do good, change the arc of your
39:43
life at any time that you want to and, and leave an indelible,
39:48
you know, footprint behind of what you did.
39:51
That's what I got out of it. Well.
39:54
Thank you. I mean, thank you for that.
39:56
I mean, I, I think that's important and something that
40:00
Michael really wanted to help, wanted to make sure people knew
40:03
about too, is something that Michael needed.
40:07
Because when he was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in 2016, the
40:13
cancers started appearing on the outside of his legs.
40:16
And it was a mutated form of skin cancer that they were able
40:19
to tie directly to Ground Zero when he left that the next day
40:24
he had. With him like the helmet, the
40:27
blanket that they gave him, the respirator, the books and a lot
40:30
of the debris from the pile that was, you know, on his clothing.
40:35
And he kept it in a box. And he wasn't sure why, but he
40:39
knew it was important and knew, didn't know what was going to
40:41
happen. But when he was diagnosed with,
40:44
you know, stage 4 cancer, he was going to need experimental
40:47
treatments to help, you know, extend his life and hopefully,
40:51
you know, keep him alive long enough to find a cure.
40:54
And he was able eligible to get money from the World Trade
40:58
Center fund, but there was also the Victims Compensation Fund.
41:02
And while he was able to get the money from the World Trade
41:04
Center fund, because anyone who is affected by that, those
41:07
attacks were able to get money from it.
41:09
But it wasn't going to be enough to help him with the treatments
41:13
that were going to be $100,000 a pop.
41:16
And the Victims Compensation Fund was going to be able to get
41:19
him more money to afford those things.
41:21
But he had to prove he was actually there on 9/11 because
41:27
even though he had had what he was wearing that day, he had
41:30
debris from the World Trade Center in a box.
41:34
And they said, yeah, but you could have been there on the
41:37
12th. You could have been there on the
41:38
13th. That we don't know that you were
41:40
actually there on 9/11, But when?
41:42
He What about the reporters? Exactly.
41:45
That's what happened. So he remembered that he had
41:48
interviewed a reporter on that day, and Michael had become a
41:52
volunteer police officer and befriended a good friend of the
41:55
force who was a detective, whose name was Polly.
41:58
And Polly said, I'm going to help you find this guy and get
42:01
you this money. And so Michael didn't remember
42:03
the name of the reporter or anything.
42:06
Polly found out the name of the reporter, who is Walter Perez,
42:10
who had left New York by that time.
42:12
Polly tracked him down to Philadelphia.
42:15
He remember, he didn't really remember Michael because he had
42:18
interviewed so many people over those days.
42:21
And he said, you know, if the footage is anywhere, it's going
42:23
to be, you know, back at that station.
42:26
And Polly and Michael were still, at the time, going
42:29
through YouTube and trying to go through keyword searches, trying
42:32
to find something on their own. And they couldn't find it.
42:35
And the original tape had been destroyed, but they had a backup
42:38
tape, some, you know, at that station.
42:41
And so everyone at the station, well, not everyone, but a lot of
42:44
people at the station were on the hunt for this tape.
42:47
And they had, you know, hundreds and hundreds of tapes of
42:50
hundreds and hundreds of hours and hours and hours of
42:53
interviews of people that were down there on 9/11.
42:56
And they did eventually find the footage of Michael's interview
43:00
on that day. And that actual interview ended
43:04
up becoming its own news story. And that news story won a local
43:08
Emmy, which they gave to Michael.
43:10
And that story got back to the NYPD, who ended up giving
43:15
Michael awarding Michael the Medal of Valor for his work on
43:19
9/11 on that day. And Michael was really sick by
43:22
that point. To me, there's video footage of
43:25
him receiving that award. And in his leg, he was in so
43:28
much pain. And I remember him telling me
43:30
like, I don't know if I want to go because I'm afraid if I get
43:32
up there on the stage and it's going to be on television, the
43:35
mayor's going to be there. And I'm afraid I'm going to
43:37
throw up because I'm in so much pain.
43:39
But Paulie and others really said, like, I'll help you
43:42
through this. You'll, you'll be fine.
43:43
And, and so Michael went through that ceremony and did that and
43:48
got through it OK. And then that got back to Spike
43:51
Lee, who heard about Michael's story and wanted to interview
43:55
Michael for his documentary that he did on the 20th anniversary
43:59
of 911 called Epicenters. And he interviewed Michael for
44:03
the 4th episode of that. And Spike interviewed Michael.
44:08
Well, Michael died two weeks after he'd done that interview
44:10
with Spike Lee, but I, I forget what the point was there of all
44:16
of that, but just that, well, I know why.
44:20
So the Victims Compensation Fund was something that was really
44:22
important. And Michael, one of Michael's
44:25
messages is that if anyone was affected by Ground Zero, if they
44:29
were in New York South of Houston St. on that day, he
44:32
wanted to make sure people knew about the Victim Victims
44:36
Compensation Fund because they're eligible to get money if
44:38
they're still having health related issues because they were
44:41
exposed to all the toxins and everything on 9/11.
44:47
You complete the book and it's it's out there now.
44:53
And then there's again and there's so many messages we
44:56
could take from the book. How do you feel now that you've
45:00
completed this and and given Michael's legacy the the the
45:06
honor it deserves? Well, I, I, I feel honored and
45:11
privileged just to be the person that was there in his life and
45:15
able to tell his story. I, it's something that I really
45:20
wanted to do. I just felt his life and his
45:22
examples that he set were really important.
45:26
Just a regular guy. He just came off like a typical
45:29
New Yorker. I mean, if you met him, he was
45:31
just seem like a typical New Yorker and he was someone who
45:35
was just very special. I mean, people gravitated
45:37
towards Michael. My parents loved him.
45:40
I mean, they didn't like a lot of my gay friends, but they
45:42
loved Michael and Michael loved him too.
45:46
And he was gregarious. He was funny, very quick witted
45:52
and just a wonderful. He had such a great spirit.
45:55
Just someone who just wanted to have a good time, wanted people
45:58
to laugh and just enjoy life. Michael wanted to enjoy life and
46:02
just experience as many things that he could possibly
46:04
experience. And, you know, those types of
46:08
that message I think is also important because even no matter
46:11
what kind of a hand you're dealt in life, you know, Michael
46:15
overcame as many things as he could to try to live the kind of
46:18
life that he really wanted to live.
46:20
And I think that's important for people to, you know, if you're
46:22
serving your community in any aspect, if you're a veteran or
46:28
someone like me, it was just like joins associations to try
46:31
to help the community in which I'm involved in, you know,
46:34
helping people in our lives just be have a better life, you know,
46:37
help them with problems that they're having.
46:39
You know, if you see a friend who needs help, you know, just
46:42
being that kind of a person, that's what I think is
46:46
important. And I'm just honored to have
46:48
been that in Michael's life. So we're talking with Neil Adams
46:51
who wrote From the Pile, a 9/11 1st responder story, and I'll
46:55
have the link in the Osmic radio show post for this book.
46:59
But but again, you know, there's a lot of parallels between
47:02
Michael's life and service experience as, as veterans, you
47:07
know, the the, the deep ties of friendship that you have with
47:10
somebody that you you know, or as a friend that you serve with,
47:14
understand that there's purpose in service to your community.
47:17
And like you just said, there's an association, whether it's
47:20
military service, being a first responder there there there's a
47:24
dignity and purpose in that. And then, you know, little
47:29
actions now can have a long effect later.
47:34
In closing, this is out there. What do you want people to
47:40
really feel and come away with when they finish your book about
47:44
Michael? Oh wow, that's a that's a good
47:46
question. I hope people will take away.
47:52
I hope people will understand Michael's road to redemption.
47:59
I think, I think we all have things in our lives that we're
48:03
not proud about, decisions that we've made or things that have
48:06
happened that, you know, if someone was writing my biography
48:10
there any page like skip that part, you know, please.
48:14
You know, I'm not, there are things that I'm not proud of,
48:16
but Michael really tried to overcome all those things.
48:19
And so I hope people can take away, you know, if they're
48:22
having challenges in their own lives, how to overcome them, how
48:26
to get past them, if they can learn any lessons from his life
48:30
or if they're just looking for a good story to read, you know, I
48:33
mean, Michael, you know, if you have problems or just want to
48:37
get out of your own head or something for a little while.
48:39
Just a story about someone who was dealt a really shitty hand,
48:43
as I said, but overcame that a lot of serendipity.
48:46
He met some people who really helped him find a better way in
48:50
his life, which is something that Michael really wanted to
48:52
do. Steer towards the light, be a
48:55
good person, be that kind of person for your community.
48:59
And I think his example is, is really worth upholding work.
49:04
Like I said, warts and all too. So even though he made mistakes
49:08
and things, he was a hell of a guy.
49:11
He had a hell of a life, a shortened life, but he crammed
49:14
as much into it as he possibly could and just live life and
49:20
just enjoy it and try to be the best person you could possibly
49:23
be. You know, appreciate the service
49:25
that, you know, veterans like you and other people have done.
49:28
But, you know, even if you know other people who aren't
49:31
necessarily veterans, but still serving their communities in
49:34
other ways, that's valuable too. And, you know, Michael wasn't a
49:38
veteran and but he was a civilian who rose to to the
49:42
call. And you know, for that, I'm very
49:44
proud of him for that, and I'm glad I can share his story.
49:47
Absolutely, and it it wasn't lost to me that, you know, hey,
49:50
I'm going down there and this might have a negative effect on
49:52
me, but I'm going toward the danger.
49:55
And I think, you know, as as a measure myself, I can do nothing
49:58
but respect that. You know, Neil, I just want to
50:00
thank you for coming on and sharing with me.
50:02
This has been a really like this really, you know, fit what I
50:06
wanted to do for the 25th anniversary of 911.
50:10
And you know, Neil, as, as I, as I close this down, I think of
50:13
the of the scripture verses says, you know, there is a
50:16
friend who sticks closer than her brother and you're that
50:19
friend and you embody that. So again, just thank you so much
50:22
for sharing with me. Thank you so much for reminding
50:24
us what it means to be an American and, and again, the
50:27
purpose of service and, and I appreciate what you did.
50:31
Thank you. Thank you so much, Travis.
50:32
I appreciate the work you're doing too.
50:34
And thank you so much for having me on your program.
50:37
I really feel privileged to be on it.
50:39
Absolutely 100% I'm going to have again, folks, the link to
50:43
from the pile in the Oscar Mike Rio show post.
50:45
You can get it anywhere. Books are sold.
50:48
Neil, again, thank you very much.
50:49
And I don't want to be, you know, end on a, on a humorous
50:54
note, but I hope for Michael's sake, go Knicks, go.
50:58
Knicks their service in a deeply personal way by sponsoring a
51:03
$17.00 Veteran's wreath. Each wreath is more than a
51:06
symbol. It's a heartfelt tribute to the
51:08
heroes who served and to the families who carry their legacy.
51:12
Visit wreathsacrossamerica.org to sponsor a wreath today.
51:16
This isn't just a wreath, it's a personal gift to an American
51:19
hero. Thank you for listening and
51:22
watching OM Radio where our active duty service members and
51:27
veterans are in action and the mission is in flight.
51:34
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51:40
If you are a veteran or you're a veteran who needs help, please
51:44
dial 988 and press one for the Veterans prices line.