Latest / Substack Writers Salon / How to sell thousands of books with Marcin Pilarczyk

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How to sell thousands of books with Marcin Pilarczyk · Substack Writers Salon

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we are live.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everyone.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm excited to have with me all the way from Warsaw, Poland, Marcin Pilarczyk.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Did I pronounce this right?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And Marcin is an author,
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: and I really love his bio because his bio starts with,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: hear me out, laid off twice, built a sci-fi portfolio, and he sold 8,131 copies.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to finally meet you.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've been talking on Substack for a while, so I'm excited to
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: just chat with you,
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: know all your tricks and tools and see how we can collaborate as well.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, Martin, first thing first is, you said you sold 8,000.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be very specific because...
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: The best part is the number, right?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: You said you sold, where is it?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I lost it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: You sold 8,131 books.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: In 2025.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: How did that happen?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: How did you sell?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what kind of books did you sell?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: 739 was actually free from free promotion.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not all sold.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's still a big number.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So on top of a bit of luck, I think the rapid release was the secret.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I really started writing the first book in 2021.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was COVID.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the first book I just wrote for myself.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I always liked to...
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And back then I lived in the US.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I was kind of immersed in English language and I figured out
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: that I prefer writing in English more than in Polish.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I started writing down the stories I wanted to write.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And also I decided that it would be a trilogy from the start.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So by 25, I already had first two drafts and half of the third book.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that's the secret because the first book went one month,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: then the second book went second month and the third month.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it is this Amazon grace period where they promote you to a lot of people
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: because this is a new book.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a change in algorithm.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: They very heavily promoted series.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I was lucky to be at the beginning of 25 when that change happened.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a huge surprise to me.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: In May and April, I earned $5,000.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was like 50 books per day.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: $5,000 in one month?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that was it.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And was that e-books or paperbacks?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Mostly e-books.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so you self-published on using KDP in English and it's a sci-fi trilogy.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you did that.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you use Amazon ads or was that all organic?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Almost no Amazon ads, although I used a little bit of Facebook ads because they were cheaper.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Recently, I actually exported all my KDP data and put it into AI to analyze.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it seems that those, I spent in total in 25, I spent $4,000 on ads.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow, okay.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they actually are responsible for $400 in sales.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's not a big profit.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it depends how you look at it, because I promoted only the first book in the series.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I had very high read-through.
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  SPEAKER_01: 91% buyers of the first book bought also the second book.
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  SPEAKER_01: That data I just gave you,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's just promotion of the first book,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I don't have data of... Of the
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: second book, yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So what kind of marketing tactics did you do to get to that number?
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  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned Facebook ads, Amazon ads.
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  SPEAKER_00: What else that made you reach that number?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: So at some point in...
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  SPEAKER_01: At the beginning of April, I started very, very heavily newsletters.
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  SPEAKER_01: First in Story Origin and later in Book Funnel.
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  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of weekly newsletter swaps.
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  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's talk about these two.
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  SPEAKER_00: Many, many authors keep telling me about Story Origin and Book Funnel.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I keep writing notes.
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  SPEAKER_00: I need to check these out.
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  SPEAKER_00: What are these things and how can, especially in the authors, make use of them?
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  SPEAKER_01: So BookFunnel is actually a little bit more than StoryOrigin.
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  SPEAKER_01: StoryOrigin is kind of book marketing, book promotion plus beta reader management.
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  SPEAKER_01: BookFunnel is strictly book promotion, book sales platform.
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  SPEAKER_01: But also there is a lot of authors there.
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  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has their own portfolio.
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  SPEAKER_01: You can create a page for your book,
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  SPEAKER_01: either a free book or with a link to your draft to digital links or Amazon links.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you can also have a reader's magnet that you give away for free.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you can integrate with your,
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  SPEAKER_01: for example, MailerLite with your platform for sending newsletters.
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  SPEAKER_01: So every time when someone goes to your page to download your free book,
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  SPEAKER_01: they have to register in your newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_01: And you have a couple of authors with similar genres like you.
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  SPEAKER_01: You can connect to them and propose a newsletter swap.
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  SPEAKER_01: So they will promote your book in their newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_01: You will promote their book in your newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's very convenient because you can track.
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  SPEAKER_01: You get a specific link for your book and the other author gets a specific link for their book.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And by tracking that specific link, you can see how many people opened that link in your book.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that's book funnel.
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  SPEAKER_00: And what was the result of you doing that?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Since you like to record and monitor and analyze, so I'm sure you have the data.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: So what was the data for your book funnel?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end of 25,
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  SPEAKER_01: I had 800 subscribers in my author's newsletter across my three pen names
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: because I had three separate pen names.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like 300 for science fiction,
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  SPEAKER_01: 300 for post-apocalyptic and the rest was fantasy romance, things like that.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was BookFunnel.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then what about StoryOrigin?
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  SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
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  SPEAKER_00: And what is that exactly?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: StoryOrigin is a little bit...
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  SPEAKER_01: So I migrated from StoryOrigin because BookFunnel gives you opportunity
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: to have multiple pen names.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: StoryOrigin, you can't do this.
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  SPEAKER_01: You have to have three separate StoryOrigin accounts and you have to pay for each one.
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  SPEAKER_01: But if you are an author with only one pen name,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: StoryOrigin is much,
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: much better because you have also a beta reading platform there.
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  SPEAKER_01: You can send ARC copies.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: But at the core, it's very similar.
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  SPEAKER_01: You also can create pages and integrate with your newsletter platform and make
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: the same newsletter swaps.
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  SPEAKER_01: There is probably an equal number of authors.
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  SPEAKER_01: Some of those authors are both in StoryOrigin and BookFunnel.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
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  SPEAKER_00: So how many did you sell for all your books from each platform for BookFunnel and StoryOrigin?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to say how many I sold because back then I didn't really track.
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  SPEAKER_01: What I noticed,
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  SPEAKER_01: there was a period of Amazon algorithm where Amazon ranked your book higher
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  SPEAKER_01: if you brought external traffic to your listing.
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  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily buyers, but people to pick on your listing.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I probably,
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  SPEAKER_01: I can assume a lot of my ranking went higher because a lot of people clicked
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  SPEAKER_01: in my newsletter or newsletters,
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  SPEAKER_01: other people that we were doing swap and brought that traffic to Amazon
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  SPEAKER_01: and Amazon ranked my book because there was some interest.
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  SPEAKER_01: Maybe people didn't buy because buying gives you like 100,
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  SPEAKER_01: but just clicking maybe gives you a 10%.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: 10 points in ranking.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what other tactics?
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  SPEAKER_00: So these are great.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like I'm, you know, thinking about what you did.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And like right after we finish our call,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to go like to book funnel and create an account.
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  SPEAKER_00: And you're just giving me ideas.
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  SPEAKER_00: And OK, so what other tactics that led you to have that massive number of sales,
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  SPEAKER_00: especially for a debut author like yourself who self-published?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so first book was cheaper.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was $2.99 as opposed to the rest.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: The rest was like $5 or $6.
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  SPEAKER_01: And the first book was in Kindle Unlimited from the start.
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  SPEAKER_01: And Kindle Unlimited is really great for promotion.
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  SPEAKER_01: It gives you such huge bump.
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  SPEAKER_01: At some point, I was in the first 10 military science fiction because of Kindle Unlimited.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's worth exploring.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Of course,
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  SPEAKER_01: later the sales a little bit died because I stopped publishing every month
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  SPEAKER_01: because I didn't have any more drafts.
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  SPEAKER_01: But at the beginning,
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  SPEAKER_01: I feel that first book in Kindle Unlimited gave me a lot of bumps in the ranking
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  SPEAKER_01: on Amazon.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
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  SPEAKER_01: Later, when the sales went down a little bit,
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  SPEAKER_01: below 2,000 per month,
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  SPEAKER_01: I actually put all my books from that series and all companion novellas
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: to Kindle Unlimited.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because at some point,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: at the time when I tried to figure out why the sales went that low,
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  SPEAKER_01: I found out that majority of my sales actually was from Kindle Unlimited Reads.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Not from individual book sales.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting, yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: By the end of 25, I had over 2 million pages read.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that brought those money in April, May.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Fascinating.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so far...
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, September ended and I was looking at my KDP books and I sold...
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Don't laugh.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm very open about this five books in September.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I just checked five books and a number of actually Kindle Unlimited.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I had like a thousand pages of Kindle Unlimited.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think I'm doing wrong that I'm not getting higher numbers?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing Amazon ads.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing social media.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: like what I did everything except for dancing on TikTok,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know, like I post on TikTok.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I use newsletters.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I talk to other authors.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: What is the missing link here?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think is happening?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, you are selling more than 90% of indie authors.
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  SPEAKER_00: Five books and 1,000?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you are a top 1%.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because indie authors, they sell how many?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Most indie authors won't sell any book.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Especially on Amazon.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really hard right now.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: There is 10,000 new books published daily on Amazon.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because of AI?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not only.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the popularity of KDP, for example, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because people didn't know about it and now you can publish whatever you want.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: There are people who dreamed about publishing, writing books and now they can.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So AI is only part of the problem.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: AI is more problem for low content books, right?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Coloring books, things like this.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you write a book with AI,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: purely with AI,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: usually people buy a few times and then you get bad reviews and the book goes down.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And people can tell.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell easily.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that easy to sell an AI-generated book unless it's like a journal or
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: a coloring book of kids or books for kids with pictures.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: What you do wrong, it vastly depends on your genre.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Different genres have different promotion funnels.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have three TikTok channels, each for each of my pen name.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: And for my military science fiction and post-apocalyptic,
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I got a lot of followers, but no sales.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: For the fantasy romance,
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get a lot of followers,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: but I could attribute sales from TikTok because I used Amazon attribution.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can create a link, a special link to your Amazon listing.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: When someone clicks, Amazon knows where it comes from.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do you create that?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have to apply or how does that work?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, you go to Amazon Ads and there is a section,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: let me check, there is a section metering and attribution.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: There you can configure your Amazon attribution link.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you can create a separate link for your ad on Facebook,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: separate link for your ad on, I don't know, Bookback and separate for your TikTok.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So when someone comes and buys,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: you see in the attribution reporting where that sales, where that buyer came from.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very useful.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Huh.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And have you used shoppable videos on TikTok to sell your books?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I just created,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: AI animations,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: things like this based on my book and added a short link to the comments.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you are on all social media?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do much on Facebook.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have pages because you need to have a page in order to advertise.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: There was a time where I was publishing almost daily on TikTok
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: because I enjoyed actually creating those animations, those slideshows with AI.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually fun.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I always like to I picture fragments of my books just for myself,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: how things could look like.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Very often when I'm brainstorming a new book,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I start with images so I can see how it would look like.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I had those three
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok channels and
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that romance, for example, this is TikTok.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: There are people who sell only on TikTok,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: not on Amazon,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: not white, only on TikTok because this is the place where you can sell romance.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: They use a TikTok shop.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: They use a TikTok shop.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: There is also, you can have TikTok products
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember how it's called.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: People who would sell your products for you.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they get a part of sales and you get a part of sales.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, affiliates.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, affiliates.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And people make millions on that.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I tried it, honestly.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mailed my books to a number of...
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Affiliate.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I did not get one single sale.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should try it again.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Have you tried it?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of stopped TikTok.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: At least I abandoned my third pen name,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: the one for Fantasy Romance,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: because I had good reviews of the book, but not good sales.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't want to spread myself too much.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I only have two right now.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, what other social media channels do you use or other marketing tactics?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, I tried Bookbub.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Promotions.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, you can actually sell by ads.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like on Amazon, you pay like five bucks.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And your ads run, but it wasn't Very successful.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot of impressions but not a lot of sales.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Probably the biggest bumps in ranking were when I used free promotion or 99 cents promotion.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: There are promotion sites where you can add your book and they will send your book
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: to 20,000 people.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it depends also on your genre.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: There are promotion sites that are good for military sci-fi, but not for romance and vice versa.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have articles on that, on promo sites, on my Substack, also on Amazon Attribution.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I have article on that.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's Amazon Attribution?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's that specific link.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if I was an indie author and I only have time and limited budget,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: let's say, to do one marketing tactic, what would you say?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: What would you tell me?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it depends on your genre, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you write romances, I would say drop everything and make TikTok videos.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to show your face.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's just enough to do a slideshow with some music and fragment of your book.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredibly popular.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Military sci-fi...
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think newsletter swaps, find people on Reddit and on Facebook, groups of sci-fi readers.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Be active on the group, that actually I started kind of doing.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I found two sci-fi groups where I posted a couple of world-beaming facts about my book.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily promoting my book, but being active and sending pictures related to my books.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if people were interested, they ask and they say, okay, this is from my book.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I got a couple of subscribers from that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how many books sold, but that was actually kind of successful.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I also have, for example, I have two books that I wrote under my name.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: One is...
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: A guide for a wife, how to handle a husband.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And another one is a guide for a daughter, how to handle your dad.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: What about how to handle your wife?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would be probably a serious.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: That would be a trilogy.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: For example, those books are not incredibly popular.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote them kind of for my wife and for my daughter.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't promote them in any way.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they are on Amazon and they get like five books per month, maybe a thousand pages.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's without promotion.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I have no idea how to promote this kind of books, for example.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I tried, but it's really hard to, for example, target your target readers on Facebook.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do you target who reads books for wives, how to handle...
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Parents, maybe, parents or something
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: like that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote that book when my kid was 14,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: so I should probably target 14-year-olds, but I can't on Meta.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Meta, yeah, because restriction.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: 18 is the cut of time, the cut of age.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really hard to promote some of those books.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you think for indie author it's easier to sell fiction than non-fiction?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because my next book is going to be non-fiction.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's about memoir ghostwriting.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think I should apply different tactics?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: So for this kind of book, I would probably shamelessly advertise it on my Substack.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And how, yeah, because that's where the readers are.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the readers of this kind of book,
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: interested in writing,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: in someone's journey through writing or things like this, they are on Substack.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you use Substack?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is how we met,
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: and that's why I love Substack because I met people from all over the world and
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: the relationship that you built via Substack is a meaningful relationship.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like when you meet someone on Instagram or Facebook
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: and they're spamming you or whatever.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the readers are like serious readers, you know.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you leverage Substack within your marketing ecosystem?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So from time to time I write about my books, things from my books.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I publish those images.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: But this Substack actually was mostly for me sharing my journey and my failures
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: and my successes with people so they don't have to.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not necessarily very good at selling myself on Substack.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: You should have some kind of product that people pay.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not good at this.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have a little bit of content behind Paywall,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: some prompts that I use for editing,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: a short mini course on how I use AI in my processes, things like this.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the ideal deal for me would be,
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: okay, everything is for free and if you like it, You just subscribe as a patron.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work this way.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work, no.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what I worry about is people are going to get tired of paying for many or
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: for different Substack newsletter.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to pay for this and for that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish Substack would offer some sort of a Netflix subscription
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: where we just can get a cut if everyone reads an article.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a better...
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Subscription model for,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: and you can like,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I hope someone from Substack is watching this,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: but like people like you can buy different tiers,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: like one tier would get you this certain number and then you can upgrade
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: or whatever.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think honestly, that would work better than people just subscribing to random newsletters.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: For that, you probably have to be rich.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: The company has to be rich.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Kindle Unlimited.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: The money doesn't come from nothing, right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fund they establish from their profits.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, are you a full-time author now?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Not really.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have a couple of other things I do.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: For example, I built a platform for indie authors to manage their better
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Authorshaven.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: What does this platform do?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you add your books and you can invite better readers.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working on a marketplace of better readers so people can actually opt in
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: to be invited by various authors.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: But for now, it's mostly bring your own better readers.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they read your book chapter by chapter.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can gate it.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: You have to read one chapter to go to another.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And using AI, it will give you an idea what to ask your readers about.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes authors don't really know what kind of feedback they want about their book.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And AI can help.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And also it produces a heat map.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: So people go read your book and they can add comments, emotes, feedback.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And AI builds one consolidated feedback from that.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, nice.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: There is a free tier forever, one book, five beta readers, so everyone can go and try.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: There are paid tiers that give a little bit more like NDAs, things like this.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, that's nice.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: But this is something I couldn't find in any other platforms,
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: especially for authors that have multiple plain names.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I built it initially for myself, but then I figured out, okay, it's pretty good.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe someone else wants to do it.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I have 50 authors right now on it.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And how are you marketing it?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't advertise it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I try to make a good CEO.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: There is a blog that is indexed by Google and Bing.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you can find it by searching beta reader platform on Google.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't advertise it because, again, it's pretty hard to advertise it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I would have to advertise it both to authors and to readers.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to advertise to readers because what do you propose them?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: You get free books, but they are unfinished, right?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to advertise.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's a specific kind of people that are beta readers.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Recently,
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: one of my beta readers that is also a student of English philology and he wants
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: to be translator,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: we figured out that being a beta reader can be actually a part of your CV.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I built into Outer's Haven for each beta reader the page with books they help
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: to beta read with feedback from authors and reviews and their stats,
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: how good of beta readers they were.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So this is something I think would encourage a lot of people to actually beta read
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: because they have something they can show As an achievement,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: as professional achievement, if they are editors later or translators.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are you working on right now?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Any new books?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And also, why do you use multiple pen names?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, I figured out I didn't want to mix two different genres.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, I have Myers-Phoenix, which is sci-fi.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Even, you know...
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Military sci-fi, young adult sci-fi, things like this.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Alex Radek is my pen name for post-apocalyptic fiction.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I have one series that happens in post-nuclear Poland after war.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Second series is Zombie Apocalypse from the Point of View of a Cat.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it has some good reviews and people enjoy it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love cats.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have two of them.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I also have two.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't want to mix those two things
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: because one failed experiment affects your whole authorship.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's true, yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is probably the last question I want to ask before we conclude,
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: which is,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: do you think authors,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've interviewed authors, I am actually reading a book called Seven Figure Authors.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think the idea of being financially free or financially sustainable
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: by publishing books, only books, Is that a reality?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can it be achieved?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Especially as you mentioned now,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: there's a lot of competition on KDP and many people are publishing books.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Can that happen?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot do it.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like honestly, I'm being very transparent.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I would live the dream where I just live of my books,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: but I have my own like publishing house.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: I do consulting, ghostwriting because, you know, I need to pay the bills.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So selling books is not enough for me.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think one day I can achieve this dream if I apply some of these tactics?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: There are indie authors that are millionaires right now.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: They self-fublished and they are rich.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I noticed,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: very good, hard to achieve, but very good thing is to be first in your genre.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean first?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like top seller?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, first, invent your genre.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: For example, there is a book, oh my God, how it's called?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Dungeon Crawl Carl.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, I just bought it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is special about this one?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a genre for people who, so this is, you are a hero of a computer game.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, The book is wrote in a way that you level up, you get new abilities, things like this.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So he was the first in that genre.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: He is a millionaire right now.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone else tried to copy that book.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Was he an indie publisher?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think so.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: The first book, I don't think he was...
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think there was no KDP when we published, when he published first time.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: But he was big back then.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: His next books were actually, I think, acquired by one of the big five.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: But the first book, that first success, nobody wrote a book this way in this genre.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So he was first.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Fascinating.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a question here from Marie Peace.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's saying, have you ever promoted books via Discord?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: For example, you have a server for a specific pen name or a server for a specific book.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, do people still use Discord?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I use Discord in a couple of communities and I tried to build my own community
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: on Discord, but it wasn't successful.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: I had like three people on Discord.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So Discord is probably long term when you have already a group of people,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: a group of fans or followers and they are your loyal fans.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: You can probably create Discord and invite them and they will promote,
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: they will talk about your book.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have time for this because it's a full time job of community management.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you're basically writing full time now and also building like platforms for authors.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And doing things with AI, building things with AI because it's very interesting.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: I built an AI chief of staff for me and for my all businesses.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: He handles, for example, weekly research on the internet.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: What's interesting happened in self-publishing in the outer world?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have that too.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I called her Sultana and she's amazing.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we have fights.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I keep telling her because I have to pay like $200 for Claude a month to get the max.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I pay you $200 a month!
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, who will get my money back for the waste
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: of time.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm a mean boss.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I'm going crazy with AI.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: When I fight with a fictional AI person, you can see that we're going crazy.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's another book.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, see, you're popular.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's another question from Ron Physical Body Healing.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: They say, if the book has not a frequency of 500, I will not read it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Specific frequency of the book, maybe.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like energy, maybe.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it has like low energy?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Adding a little bit more to your previous questions.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's perfectly possible, but if it's your full-time job, then it's a job.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not longer a hobby.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't necessarily write What you want to write.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you have to write what people want.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And using AI speeds up the process very, very, very
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know I said last question,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: but quickly, but AI,
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: there's these big publishers,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: this author is being canceled or drugged because they used AI.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: In the past,
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: authors used to be canceled for tweeting something or whatever,
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: now they're being canceled for Okay, okay.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's of course changed later but I use AI very heavily for brainstorming,
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: for outlining,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: for polishing my text because I'm not the native speaker so sometimes I have
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: to ask AI whether it's good writing or not.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: I use a lot of AI in generating all the promotion material.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's great in creating ad copies and ad creatives.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I use heavily in editing.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I made a long journey from my first editing prompts to what I use now.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have four long prompts.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in the meantime, I really learned what editing means.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean to edit a book?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: In order to tell, you can't tell AI, okay, edit my book.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: It tells you, okay, I know everything about the editing.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Give me your book and I'll edit.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it will edit your book because it wants to make you happy.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you get a list of changes that sometimes doesn't make sense.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Very often doesn't make sense at all.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: You can't tell I edit my book and give me a new version.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: You have to give a specific prompt.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: For example, find me all verbs where there is too much of that thing.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Find me repetition across all chapters, things like this.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I have four stages editing prompt.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: I read five books about editing.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to learn in order to actually say, tell AI what I want it to do.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it does that pretty well with my last four editing scripts.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you feel about the big five publishing authors,
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: cancelling authors or dropping authors who use AI and all these like anti-AI...
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty against traditional publishing in general.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel I need traditional publisher or anything.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like everyone can have a traditional publisher, right?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: The big contracts happen after you become an established author.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: After you sell some books, then they come to you.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like everyone can be an additional published author.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the witch hunt that is happening right now,
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: it comes from the witch hunt that came from the readers.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Publishers are afraid of being accused about selling the enumerated books.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Pangram is probably the best of the best of the AI companies.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Checkers.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it only can tell you that the book was touched by AI.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: It can't reliably tell you, okay, this sentence was made by AI and this didn't.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it happens still that Pangram is wrong on certain things.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, I don't know.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: If the book is good... Who cares, yeah.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't really matter, yeah.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Especially true, which is true.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I agree completely with you like about the traditional publishers and that
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: for me is another reason Why the future,
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think, is independent publishing, honestly.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you can do everything on your own.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can ask your AI chief of staff to help you.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: But anyways, to each his own.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: This has been wonderful, Marcin.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: How can people contact you?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: How can they reach you?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: If they want to use your services, maybe use your platform, this is your...
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Chance to shine and shameless promotion.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And feel free,
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: the audience,
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: if you have any questions,
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: if you can drop them in the chat while we have a few minutes left.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, how can people reach you?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my Substack is at the indielab.net.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: The Authorshaven is authorshaven.io.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: So feel free to come register.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't like it, we'll delete your account.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a website?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: They can email you?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't have my personal website per se.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have websites for my books.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: One is milesphoenixbooks.com.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Second is Alex Radek.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: For my post-apocalyptic.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the easier way is to just go to theindielab.net and find me on Substack.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, give me a shout over chat.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: I reply.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: This has been amazing.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: I personally learned a lot and I can't wait to keep learning from you.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure the listeners and the readers and anyone who's going to watch
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: the replay is going to learn a lot from it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: And please subscribe to Substack.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And for everyone who joined us today,
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: just a shout out to Elaine Williams,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Aloha Kennedy,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Dawood Kutab,
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Matt Likes to Do Things,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wailing Graves,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Michael Conlon,
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Charlie Whoop,
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Creston Mapes, Mary Peace, Jane Tabachnik, and Ron Physical Body Healing.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, everyone.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we will see you next time we go live.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I will see you on Substack.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.