Latest / Event Industry News Podcast / From Ballet to Big-Stage: Ross Wheeler on Imagination’s Live Event Magic

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From Ballet to Big-Stage: Ross Wheeler on Imagination’s Live Event Magic · Event Industry News Podcast

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  Hello everybody and welcome along to the event industry news podcast with me James
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  Dixon wishing you all a very good morning afternoon or evening whenever or wherever
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  you tune into today's podcast from my guest today has had on the face of it anyway a unique
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  journey into the events industry to the point that they are today we're going to be finding
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  out a little bit more about them the organization that they work for the work that they do maybe
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  some of the clients that they work for on a global level I'm delighted to say that joining
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  the event industry news podcast for the first time is the business director and head of live
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  at imagination Ross Wheeler Ross a very warm welcome to the podcast hi James morning afternoon
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  yeah absolutely you never know really that's what we I kind of said I fell into the habit
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  of saying it because you can't take for granted that anybody's gonna you know anybody's gonna
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  listen to what we would call a normal time of day you know people you know listen to these
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  things all over the world indeed when they're flying all over the world now such as the way
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  of technology absolutely absolutely that's nice to be with you yeah thanks very much and you you
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  join us today from imaginations base in London but having just I think you said off air just
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  before we started flown in from Canada recently for yes just back in from Canada having a look
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  at some stuff over there so yeah just good to be back in London and actually sun's shining so
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  it makes a change it's glorious over here at the moment and I said in my introduction Ross that you
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  had on the face of it anyway a sort of a unique start to your career and the journey into events
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  wasn't from perhaps what we call a you know a traditional route tell us a little bit about
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  yourself first of all in that journey that I've alluded to and and how you find yourself here
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  today well yeah I guess if we wind the clock right back I actually started bizarrely training as a
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  ballet dancer with the Royal Ballet so back in my early early years I think my sister was doing
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  some ballet classes I was sitting outside watching true Billy Elliot story and ended up just getting
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  involved in sort of like the Saturday schools and then actually threw into white knowledge at the
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  Royal Ballet School where yeah ballet was very much my life for seven or eight years and at which
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  point I had sort of several problems about you know back and knee and growth problems that anyone
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  who's in that world will know about which sort of took me out of it took me into a bit more of
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  the other side of performing which I didn't particularly like and that took me into sort
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  of backstage stage management lighting theater did some A-levels ultimately ended up going to
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  Lambda London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts did all the backstage courses there thought I
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  was going to very much go into sort of like West End stage management theatrics and all that kind
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  of thing but got sort of caught up in a bit of a whirlwind that is imagination which is sort of
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  you know incredible design communication agency does stuff all over the world turned up here 28
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  years ago didn't think I was going to sort of like like it that much they said look come on board we
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  do loads of production and I joined as a junior production manager with a lot of knowledge about
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  theatricality having been on stage myself at the Opera House as a junior member for quite a few
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  hundred performances but also now understanding the technical and I kind of did it going into
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  well going actually I'm not sure you know how I'm going to engage with corporate life but
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  28 years later sort of seven or eight years as a production manager then the sort of team talking
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  to me saying look the client's quite like talking to you because you know a lot of how it's delivered
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  you're also very straightforward about you know how you say stuff and you have a good understanding
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  of you know the creativity that comes with it so yeah somehow from ballet dancing all the way
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  through to now head of live business director here it's been an interesting journey but I think they
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  I think they have a real correlation and anybody if you anyone who knows imagination or if you've
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  spent any time with us knows that this place around the world our offices they're full of
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  very diverse and different types of people but all of a handful of them definitely have like this
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  theatrical background because I think there's something to be said you know in the world of
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  experiences which is what we're when bringing things to life trying to connect with people
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  emotionally trying to change people's feelings or thoughts around something not just through
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  classic advertising or content but actually by going come and feel something you require some
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  theatricality to do that and I think that it plays such an important part in how you get people
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  to move their perceptions to understand a brand or a story better so yeah I feel that's been a real
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  it's a real asset in the way without a doubt and I've said it many times on the podcast before
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  when we've talked to people who have a you know an artistic you know background in in some way
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  shape or form being that music or drama or dance you know anything that's kind of performance art
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  related whilst on the face of it as I said it might seem like a unique you know starting point
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  that you had but it when you start to think about it in more detail it becomes very very obvious
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  very very quickly how important a part that that background could play in working in in a creative
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  production industry because I remember doing you know bits of drama at school and I was always into
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  sort of live music and and I played guitar from a young age and and did some productions at school
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  and noticed your guitar hovering in the background hovering and and it um one thing I remember being
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  told by a drama teacher in a production everything has to be amplified gestures have to be amplified
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  things have to be amplified in order to communicate with an audience and when you bring that into the
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  live events space and the brands and the organizations that somebody like imagination
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  will be working with on a daily in a weekly in a monthly basis delivering the messages that they
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  want to deliver and to get those messages across to their attendees to their audiences
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  everything has to be done at that scale so there's a huge correlation yeah completely I think you
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  know attention isn't the same as impact and I think you have to um we could all we could all
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  effectively buy reach in certain ways by you know but you have to um make real connections emotional
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  so if you're going to actually connect with an audience you have to do something that they're
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  going to feel that they're going to like want to watch they're going to be compelled to share
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  um they're going to you know talk about outside of our you know after they've seen it for for
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  many weeks to come potentially so always trying to find that that's where imagination you know
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  we were we were I think inspirational to call us imagination when our founder Gary Withers
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  founded us and we all I always say to my team you know we have to live up to our name
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  I our job is to constantly imagine new ways of connecting with audiences and telling those
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  stories so how difficult is that in the modern climate both sort of economically logistically
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  um because having those sort of creative ideas is one thing being able to bring them to life both
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  from a practical point of view from a logistical point of view and from a budgetary point of view
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  must be difficult so is it a constant balancing act for you to sort of juggle those considerations
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  to deliver what clients need I think it's always been that I mean I think anybody in this industry
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  from advertising all the way through to um the simplest piece of content into the biggest event
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  or experience everyone will always tell you it's a balancing act between money time ideation and
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  also the sort of like the ambition of your client I think one of the things that you know
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  is so critical nowadays and I would just implore anybody who's sort of like on the client side I
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  fully appreciate there are such challenges to the way budgeting and business runs nowadays
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  particularly post-covid all of those kind of things but time is really the enemy of creativity
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  and you can do an awful lot for actually quite small budgets if you have time to plan to find
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  the suppliers that are willing to do it for a little bit less to book the venues to engage
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  sponsors to get relationships going in a way that doesn't always equal a financial transaction it's
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  actually like a it's a there's a benefit on both sides you can do all of those things what you
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  can't do is you can't do that when you only have I don't know three months to sort of put it all
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  together and unfortunately more and more at the moment we just feel that you know clients do come
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  quite late in the day and say we want to do all of this and we want to and that's fine we do find a
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  way but it often ends up costing a lot of money to do that um or if you could just make it a little
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  bit earlier time is time is the real friend of creativity so that's that's how you get better
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  ideas it's how you connect with it's how you test things as well it's so important to be able to
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  actually test how people can psychologically respond to some things and we're doing a lot of
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  work at the moment with behavioral psychologists and how actually that um work or the the project
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  translates into a human being how somebody perceives it and actually doing all of that is
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  amazing but you need time to do it and then you need to be able to go back to the drawing board
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  and iterate a few times as well as costing it and planning it so yeah I think it's we're doing it
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  we've got clients who are super exciting and have incredible ideas and want to do stuff and we
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  absolutely are doing that just that I would encourage anybody who's sort of in the industry
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  on both sides that any time that we can buy into the into the process you get a better result yeah
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  it's it's interesting a couple of things that you mentioned there about the about time you know in
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  terms of preparation in terms of seeing if some of the elements that you're planning to incorporate
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  are actually going to work in the manner and the way that you anticipate that they're going to work
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  and I often find with with events of of any nature being a big you know corporate event a brand
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  activation event there is often an element of what we would call rehearsal built into it you
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  know in terms of you know a technical run through or two days of technical you know and and so on
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  and so forth but in the way that you would imagine a you know a live music artist rehearsing for
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  weeks and months in advance of going out on tour so often I say it with sort of particularly
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  corporate events you might have one day of rehearsal before the the conference opens and so
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  when you mention that the subject of time so I very rarely see anybody really sort of doing
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  things well in advance of an event to see if it will work yeah it's it's true and I think there's
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  a you get different you you have very different clients and everybody even actors approach things
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  differently some actors you know you can watch them rehearse and you are like wow you how do
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  you do that in an empty auditorium and then some just absolutely they it feels it feels dead and
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  then you watch them come to life in front of us you know 500 people like how did that come from
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  and you come off the buzz of the the audience the people that are there and that happens with CEOs
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  or various speakers that come on stage for us as well some absolutely relish the moment some
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  absolutely cannot stand rehearsing on an empty stage to a few crew in the audience and you just
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  whereas others do spend hours and hours and hours we work with them or we coach them
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  I would always encourage you know script writing is such an important thing
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  but knowing your content of course which you always imagine most of the executive will do
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  knowing it to the point where you can you can eloquently talk about it slightly off script
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  is such an important thing but as you said James building in you know rehearse rehearse rehearse
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  if you've got one moment when you're showing the world something new or a new story or you
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  want some to compellingly like engage with it rehearsal is critical because you just come out
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  better you the message is clearer the images are stronger and your tone is more compelling so
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  I think that's always always good advice and building building that into rehearsal schedules
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  making sure that you know you're not sometimes you're fighting you know if you're buying if
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  you're buying a venue that's expensive and you've got you know four days to build it
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  do you really want to have another two days for rehearsal before you go live away it's
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  a big cost implication but actually sometimes that cost implication is very much worth it
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  and I guess that the experience that you've got in 50 years of running a business
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  will allow you in a certain way to communicate with the clients from day one from the moment
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  that they contact you and say we're thinking of doing this if you say well you know this is the
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  I guess the commitment that we need from you so often there's an expectation from clients that
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  they book an agency to deliver their event right it's now your responsibility to do it but there
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  it has to be a two-way transaction doesn't it there has to be a certain expectation
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  from the client that they're going to also play their part and deliver I guess some of the the
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  indicators and then the measurables that you can put on them it absolutely could and should be like
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  that it isn't always of course like any walk of life that isn't the case but I can tell you
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  from having done this now for I guess 28 years here the best projects I've ever done have come
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  from the relationship where you have a really mutual respect for each other whether that's
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  you know team and team individual and individual at senior level when you have that connection
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  it absolutely is where the magic happens because it means everybody in the agency wants to work
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  harder everybody on the client side is fully appreciating what's happening at agency level
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  and those two things blend in the middle you get great creativity you get complete team synergy
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  and I can see I can safely say some of the most crazy things we've done from loop the loops to
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  barrel rolls to incredible projects and those things come from working hand in hand with a
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  client in the way you just said you know it's where that full understanding is had
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  now you can imagination also can pick up some incredibly crazy brief from one of our clients
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  anywhere around the world and we can because of our experience also do it very fast so we can
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  we can cut through a lot of that and we can go right let's just do this this and this and this
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  will get you to this point we can manage it engineer it to allow you to still look incredible
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  even in short time frames which we do very very often but it's um yeah it's a it's always a process
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  I was looking at some of the um on your website that there's some great examples of brands that
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  you've worked with um and we're talking about you know brands that everybody will know you know
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  but guinness ford racing red bull racing you know big events like this Diageo drinks brands
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  that one thing that strikes me with big companies like that big big organizations that they will have
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  probably almost I guess sort of delivered every type of event known to them in their history you
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  if they look back so there must not just be a challenge from from from them to come up with a
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  new idea but when they come into you and if it's a historic client given the the portfolio of events
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  that they must have delivered it must be continually challenging to come up with new ideas and not just
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  to say well we did that before and it worked you know is it a lot of people will think that working
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  with big brands gives you a certain level of luxury they're going to have big budgets they're
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  going to have loads of ideas and things like that but does it actually make it more challenging
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  because of how many things they've done over the years I always I always say to my team you know
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  you have to work hardest with your clients who you're working with all the time because you need
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  to be constantly inspirational we we are there to be their imagination to help them think about how
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  they engage their customers differently and yeah I think something like guinness is really
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  interesting obviously you know if you go back all the way to sort of like 20 years we helped
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  guinness and diageo design the first storehouse um in ireland when it first opened that was actually
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  one of the first big experiences centers we actually designed that helped them you know
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  come up with the whole concept and we know it's been hugely successful um and everybody every
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  brand sort of almost copied the idea of it and then to be still working with them you know 20
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  plus years later helping them design their covent garden experience here in london is fantastic but
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  of course the engagement the way people engage with those stories very different how it was 20
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  years ago so you have to always be innovative technology is important but we don't let it rule
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  our lives we don't do things for technological sake we do it because it's right psychologically
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  and the technology comes next but you always have to be pushing the boundaries you have to be
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  innovative and I think the most important thing is to always try and be try and be that conduit
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  between customer and also your client's product because and it's quite interesting how often
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  clients don't always they have they have an idea of what's going on in around the world of course
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  they're doing their own thing but we're very much seeing on different levels with different
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  clients with different customers so we can bring that experience to bear to our clients which
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  helps us imagine things differently and yeah when you have those wonderful working relationships
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  they're open to they're open to suggestions it's just then a question of like how do you bring all
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  the multiple stakeholders in how do you do it within a time frame how do you achieve it within
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  a budget and of course that takes you know expertise and and relationships you know it's
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  all about trust um people trusting people you know we are an entirely people industry and
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  you have to you have to have those trusting relationships to be able to actually make good
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  things happen absolutely and I just you've kind of got my brain you know thinking now about the
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  task when you look at Guinness again as an example but forgive me dwelling on that just for a second
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  but if you think about it from a product point of view this is a product that fundamentally hasn't
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  changed in centuries right it's a pint of Guinness everyone knows it everyone loves it uh and you
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  know the recipe is strict and that's what it is so they're not constantly innovating and trying
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  to develop a new one in the way that a car manufacturer is trying to do that so when you've
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  got a car launch or a new vehicle launch or a big vehicle brand like Nissan for example you know
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  you've you've got a new product new features you've probably got lots of stuff in a story that
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  you can tell about the development that new thing with somebody like Guinness it's complete opposite
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  isn't it you're dealing with a product that centuries old that hasn't changed so the task of
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  innovating and telling a story about that I guess will be totally different to a brand new newly
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  developed product yeah of course I mean you're always trying to reach out to new audiences I mean
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  I think you'll be surprised if you if you actually get a chance to go down to uh the London Gate
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  Brewery then it's literally like the whole load of new beverages available as well that Guinness
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  are developing and um so I think there is a whole load of that that's going on as well challenge
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  yeah um I'll come and join you uh the whole the whole you still have to hold on to that core
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  brand but what you're always trying to do is you're trying to tell that story in a way that's
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  relevant to a new audience as opposed to the people who already love it and you also have to
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  do that in a way that you don't switch off the people that love it as well so classic advertising
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  dilemma how do you how do you keep everybody engaged and you know it's interesting when I work
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  a lot with uh like Land Rover and you know when New Defender came out stuff you know you absolutely
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  have to talk about you know it's a groundbreaking vehicle absolutely like people were you know
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  shocked and horrified at some some of the images initially because they were like the stores of
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  Defender from for many many years for good reason yeah but actually what the new product offered
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  and opened up huge volumes of sales around the world you know transformed that product into a
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  pillar pillar product for Land Rover um you have to be able to engage with those audiences they're
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  going to want that they want to see that without trying to alienate and isolate the people who
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  love it from from the historical reasons as well yeah and let's um stay on that word people for a
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  second because you know 28 years of imagination and 50 years as a business things will have grown
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  things will have developed um but what's the task of not just being creative and that data
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  communication with the clients but you will need to have that same level of relationship with the
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  team internally as well to keep to keep them motivated to keep the creative juices flowing
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  to continually expand I guess as the business is expanding 100 100 and I think team management
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  is an area that so many companies don't put enough focus on I think that it's so important to look
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  after your team to be in it as one we're quite a flat structure here at imagination it's quite an
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  old company but we've actually you know we operate at a very very you know from global CEO all the
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  way down to the whole team some of the junior members everyone's very much engaged everyone's
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  pretty accessible to each other and I describe it when I'm talking to people who are coming to work
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  for us you know imagination is a bit like coming and joining a family we're an independent company
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  we celebrate our independency that we celebrate our originality from that um but you're coming
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  into a family you know we all know families are good and bad there are amazing supportive things
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  about families but always not so like when you're brother and sister or whatever you have to
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  understand you need to speak up at times you need to be able you can have an opinion um sometimes
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  you do have to just sit and toe the line or listen in um but making sure people understand they can
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  do that making sure they understand their dynamic that they can grow within that is important I think
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  the other thing that's also you know probably a challenge for most people in in business is you
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  know people are incredibly eager to sort of step up earn more money of course people need you
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  nowadays step up in the tiers of like you know am I now a midway am I senior am I director
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  that everyone wants that progression super super fast and of course if somebody is absolutely
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  shining then that's possible but I think what's also really important for those individuals to
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  understand is that's great until you find yourself standing in the middle of Dubai with some four
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  prime ministers around you the technology is going wrong and suddenly you haven't got the experience
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  that you need from you know many years of having stepped up to really understand how to deal with
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  that and you actually can find yourself in a very isolated spot so making sure people have the right
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  experience so they can always feel confident in their delivery but not pushing them too far where
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  the point where actually they feel like they're drowning in something is always the is always the
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  sort of the fine line so but yeah I remember you know Gary and Patrick who you know Gary founded
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  it Patrick's our global CEO we're great believers in that you know let people try people often you
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  know when you're imagining new things you have to invent new ways of doing things and actually
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  young and ingenious minds they come up with incredible solutions nowadays in the way that
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  you go actually we probably wouldn't have thought about that so keeping that team dynamic is super
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  important to us. If I may ask and I'm going to reference a recent podcast that we've put out
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  there with Maria O'Day from the event school London talking about and she came on to talk
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  about the regulated qualification status that they've been awarded at the event school in London
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  and we've spoken about your background at the start of today's podcast and I wonder if we could
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  get your thoughts on where the balance needs to be struck in an industry like ours and in an agency
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  like yours between bringing people into the business who might come from a creative and
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  artistic background who bring great ideas but how important it might be going forward in the industry
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  to have people who have a certain amount of qualification and training behind them as well
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  in order to step into a business like yours and provide maybe the level of expertise off the bat
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  that would otherwise historically have taken maybe a few years to develop new
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  new talent within the events industry. Do you think that we need to maintain a balance between
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  both elements? I guess the easy answer is yes, of course we do. I think if you look
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  the best people that come into any agency and anyone who's applying for a job nowadays I suggest
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  you always think about trying to be a bit t-shaped which is like multi, you can offer
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  multiple things to a business, you are not just this but you could be this and this and I think
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  that if you look at my example I came from a world of sort of theatrics performing backstage
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  but I went and got some proper qualifications in lighting and sound so I really understood how to
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  do them. I could take those two things and apply them to the job when I joined here as a production
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  manager so I think having experience is critical, having some qualifications around how you actually
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  deliver things whether it's project management process, whether it's just technical understanding
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  that can only be a valuable thing to the event industry but it shouldn't rule out sometimes
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  finding the gem of the person who walks in going I just happen to feel like I could be
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  incredibly good at this. Yeah and sometimes the way that I've looked at it in the past is
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  not necessarily that a person could do every single job but the communication aspect of it
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  is as important as anything else. If you can communicate with various different teams whether
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  that be the technical team, a lighting designer, a sound engineer, an artist, if you can communicate
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  with them in a language that they understand that's going to help the process. If you have
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  an understanding of it to speed up that two-way communication process I think that's where the
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  real benefits are felt. 100 percent. I mean communication is everything when you're in a
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  people industry you have to be able to know how to get to the answers quickly. When time is poor
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  particularly you have to be able to you know sometimes we sit in meetings with our clients
• 27:15
  where you know it's like literally like just people are saying letters and everyone's expected
• 27:20
  to understand exactly what's being talked about. You have to sort of be able to speak that language
• 27:24
  you also have to be able to speak the language of how you do events as well and those things
• 27:30
  if you're good at that that is a core skill as well as having lots and lots of other things that
• 27:36
  should be good. It would be foolish of us to sort of have you on the podcast today and not
• 27:45
  allow people the chance to go and find you, find out a little bit more about what the
• 27:50
  organisation do and indeed look through pages of your website referencing some of these really
• 27:57
  interesting projects that you've been involved in. Before we wrap up today do throw out the website
• 28:01
  so that people can find you. Imagination.com so yeah www.imagination.com that's the one thank you.
• 28:08
  Yeah come and have a look we've got some incredible case studies from ranging from you know we do
• 28:13
  stuff all over the world we've got 13 studios all over the world and obviously I'm based in the UK
• 28:19
  but travel quite extensively amongst them. We do projects from the smallest tiniest little things
• 28:26
  to the craziest biggest government things in the Middle East and incredible car launches around the
• 28:31
  world stuff for Disney. I mean we have a such an eclectic mix that's the thing that I love about
• 28:38
  this company you know it's original it's hugely diverse the work we do is different every single
• 28:44
  every single day. I was just talking to one of my team that I was with in Canada and just said you
• 28:49
  know you never know what you're going to be doing next week and that's something that's you know
• 28:53
  it's not for everybody but that is it certainly keeps your life interesting. It keeps you on your
• 28:59
  toes in this industry you know you never know what's going to be thrown at you and with all the
• 29:03
  planning and and the stuff that we've talked about inevitably I guess that's one of the things that
• 29:08
  people absolutely love and that's that's what really that's the sort of the real buzz that
• 29:12
  people get from it is all the planning and all the preparation you will inevitably still get to
• 29:18
  somewhere and be thrown those curveballs and be asked to come up with solutions on site and
• 29:24
  that's that's kind of great I guess paradox you know that the planning and the improvisation that
• 29:28
  you have to be able to deliver both of those in in equal parts to work effectively in the industry.
• 29:35
  Absolutely yeah it's been great speaking to you today my guest has been Ross Wheeler
• 29:40
  from Imagination I guess talking all things agency journey into the industry Ross thanks very much
• 29:46
  for taking you know 30 minutes out of your day today to have a chat with us where are you off to
• 29:50
  next in the world having come in from Canada where's the next journey? I think heading to Greece
• 29:55
  actually in the next week and a half so. Well not a bad time of year to to head over there
• 30:02
  well safe travels continued good luck with all the projects you're involved in thanks for joining
• 30:07
  us today. Great thanks James really love to lovely to chat with you. And before we sort of fully wrap
• 30:12
  up today's episode as usual the the messages from me about event industry news if you've started
• 30:19
  your journey today by watching today's podcast on the event industry news website thank you very
• 30:23
  much for doing so please do take a few moments to have a look at the rest of the website of course
• 30:27
  the latest news features special supplements all the good stuff that the event industry news team
• 30:32
  is working on the news section is divided into individual sections related to specific areas of
• 30:37
  the industry including of course the wedding events industry section that we launched at the
• 30:42
  start of this year and one thing to mention of course always is the A to Z supplier directory
• 30:47
  if you work in the events industry and you're looking for a product service or supplier
• 30:50
  the chances are you will find it in the supplier directory on the event industry news
• 30:55
  website of course you may have listened to today's podcast by your podcast platform if you've done so
• 31:01
  thank you very much for tuning in please do make sure that you are fully sort of subscribed and
• 31:05
  like the podcast on your platform so that you get the latest episodes when they drop and do make
• 31:10
  sure that you also head over to the website once you finish listening to today's podcast to check
• 31:15
  out all of those things that I've just mentioned that are available on the website it's been great
• 31:19
  chatting to Ross Wheeler today from Imagination and we'll see you on the next edition of the
• 31:23
  podcast goodbye everybody