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INTERVIEW: Tessa Spencer Opens Up On Losing Her Son To Suicide & Talks Save Our Sons & Daughters SC + More · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Hold up.
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Speaker 2: Every day I wake up.
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Speaker 3: Wake your ass up.
0:03
Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club.
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Speaker 4: Y'all finished or y'all done?
0:08
Speaker 2: Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy.
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Speaker 2: We are The Breakfast Club. Lauren LaRose is here as well.
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Speaker 2: We got a special guest in the building.
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Speaker 3: Yes, indeed.
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Speaker 2: We have Tessa Spencer.
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Speaker 1: Welcome.
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Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
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Speaker 3: Good morning, Tessa. If you're listening on Z93 Jams in
0:22
Speaker 3: Charleston right now, you like.
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Speaker 4: What's up, y'all?
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Speaker 3: Tessa Spitzer!
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Speaker 1: Okay?
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Speaker 3: Tessa, man, Tessa is... She's always been an inspiration to me.
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Speaker 3: She did the morning show in Charleston, South Carolina when
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Speaker 3: I first started in radio.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 3: And it was called The Breakfast Club with Baby J.
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Speaker 1: Oh, really? You know?
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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yes.
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Speaker 3: And Tessa, I talk about it in my first book.
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Speaker 3: Tessa was the first person who... She called into the
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Speaker 3: hotline one day to tell me about a traffic accident,
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Speaker 3: but she was like, Charlamagne, you sound good on the radio.
0:51
Speaker 3: And I was like, thank you. And she was like, no,
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Speaker 3: you sound really good, like a natural. And that put
0:55
Speaker 3: a battery in my back that has carried me a
0:58
Speaker 3: very long way.
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Speaker 6: So thank you, Tessa.
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Speaker 1: And you surprised me with that when you did the
1:03
Speaker 1: book tour. And you sent me a copy of the
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Speaker 1: book because I was going to host it in Charleston.
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Speaker 4: And I was reading.
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Speaker 1: When I got to that page, I cried because you
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Speaker 1: never know what you say to somebody and that sticks
1:18
Speaker 1: with them.
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Speaker 4: And the fact that you remembered that.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely.
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Speaker 4: Just like, no, he didn't.
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Speaker 1: And I appreciate you remembering that. And look at you now.
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Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons I do it to
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Speaker 3: other people. Because I remember how much that inspired me.
1:34
Speaker 3: And that was 1999.
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Speaker 1: 1999.
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Speaker 3: That was before.
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Speaker 4: Julian was born.
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Speaker 1: Because Julian was born in 2000. So that's a long time.
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Speaker 1: Because I had just gotten back to Charleston from Nashville.
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Speaker 1: I was doing radio in Nashville then.
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Speaker 3: And I also heard you say once that hearing people's
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Speaker 3: testimonies and understanding how God has worked in their lives
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Speaker 3: is part of your purpose. So that's another reason I
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Speaker 3: wanted you here this morning because I want people to
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Speaker 3: hear your testimony this morning.
2:01
Speaker 1: Man, Charlemagne, I've had so many. And to save all
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Speaker 1: of the back backstory because of how strong my faith
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Speaker 1: is now is what has carried me over the past
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Speaker 1: year since losing... Julian and everything that's written in the Bible,
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Speaker 1: everything that God says that he is and can do.
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Speaker 1: I witnessed that and I felt that and he's carried
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Speaker 1: me every step of the way, even in the midst
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Speaker 1: of the grief that our family has been going through.
2:34
Speaker 2: I'll break down the story a little bit because you
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Speaker 2: mentioned Julian a couple of times and I don't know
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Speaker 2: if people know who Julian is and what the story is.
2:39
Speaker 2: Julian is your son.
2:40
Speaker 1: Julian's my son and I still talk about him in
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Speaker 1: the present because, and I don't want to Okay, if
2:47
Speaker 1: I cry, just bear with me.
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Speaker 4: We'll give you tissue right now, Brandon.
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Speaker 2: We'll cry with you.
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Speaker 7: We sure will.
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Speaker 4: Julian is.
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Speaker 1: My baby boy. And he was always a very special child.
3:05
Speaker 1: He told me, I was just sharing with my team,
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Speaker 1: that he even told me that he remembered being born.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't put anything past that. Anybody or
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Speaker 1: what their experience is. But I always knew that Julian
3:17
Speaker 1: was special. Where I would be getting ready to go, Charlie,
3:20
Speaker 1: you know, going to a remote. I would be, you know,
3:22
Speaker 1: putting on my makeup. And I had him in the
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Speaker 1: baby carrier. And I just looked at him. I would
3:26
Speaker 1: just look at him.
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Speaker 4: And he was, like, not even a year old.
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Speaker 1: He was maybe seven, six, five, six months old. And
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Speaker 1: I said, there's something about you. And I said, who
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Speaker 1: are you? And I would always just look at him
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Speaker 1: and wonder because I knew that maternal instinct, maybe that
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Speaker 1: my child was different and he was here for whatever
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Speaker 1: purpose it was. And when he was six years old
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Speaker 1: and he would whenever he before he would say anything profound,
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Speaker 1: he would always start with Mama. And I would always answer, yes, Julian,
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Speaker 1: because I knew something was coming after that. And he said, Mama,
4:01
Speaker 1: I said, yes, Julian, because I was in his closet,
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Speaker 1: you know, cleaning up. And he said, I want to
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Speaker 1: go back to where God is. He said this at six,
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Speaker 1: about six years old. And I got quiet for a
4:13
Speaker 1: minute and I was like, hmm. I said, I don't
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Speaker 1: think I'm ready for you to do that just yet.
4:17
Speaker 1: He said, no, no, no, mama, not to stay, just
4:19
Speaker 1: to visit. So I'm like, where where's this coming from?
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Speaker 1: Where's this knowledge coming from? We were in the line
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Speaker 1: at a Zaxby's one time. He was in the backseat
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Speaker 1: in the car seat. Mama.
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Speaker 4: Yes, Julian. He said, you know what I think? I said,
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Speaker 4: what do you think, Julian?
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Speaker 1: He said, I think God has this big book and
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Speaker 1: he's reading about us. And I looked in the rearview
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Speaker 1: mirror and I said, yeah, yeah. So I knew I
4:43
Speaker 1: was dealing with somebody special. He came from pure love.
4:48
Speaker 1: And his brother, James, James Edward, is 28 now. And
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Speaker 1: so there was a two year age difference sometimes. You
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Speaker 1: either your brother, your big brother is either your best
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Speaker 1: friend or your nemesis. Right. And always goading you and
5:00
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And I think James was, you know,
5:03
Speaker 1: being a little mean to him. And he's like and
5:06
Speaker 1: he was, I think, eight or 10 at this time.
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Speaker 1: He's like, but you're my brother. You're supposed to love me.
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Speaker 3: So.
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Speaker 1: This was almost like innate, just like this pure love
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Speaker 1: for the world. He felt everything, even at a young age,
5:19
Speaker 1: you know, of the heaviness and the hatred. He didn't
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Speaker 1: understand it. He was my creative child, spoken word, poetry, filmmaking.
5:30
Speaker 1: What else?
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Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh. He just had so.
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Speaker 1: Many big dreams.
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Speaker 4: Music, yes.
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Speaker 1: So many big dreams. At one point in time, he
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Speaker 1: wanted to go to New York Film Academy. So we
5:40
Speaker 1: come to the city all the time. And on one
5:43
Speaker 1: of our trips, I made sure that we went, took
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Speaker 1: a picture in front of the New York Film Academy.
5:48
Speaker 1: He had so many dreams and hopes. But by eighth grade,
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Speaker 1: he was bullied. And so being the sensitive soul that
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Speaker 1: he was, I think that's where everything kicked off for him.
6:03
Speaker 1: By the time he was in the 10th grade, because
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Speaker 1: I believe in if there's something going on, we're going
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Speaker 1: to go see about it. We're going to see what's happening.
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Speaker 1: So by 10th grade, depression, anxiety. By 19 years old,
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Speaker 1: bipolar schizophrenia. And to watch a child that was so
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Speaker 1: full of life and wonder and wisdom, basically be kind
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Speaker 1: of gutted from that to be the complete opposite of
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Speaker 1: a darker side. The anxiety was through the roof. His,
6:43
Speaker 1: you know, imagination was you know, was just through the roof.
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Speaker 1: But he fought, right? He didn't want to take his
6:51
Speaker 1: medication because he thought it messed with his creativity, that
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Speaker 1: it was going to stifle it, that it was going
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Speaker 1: to change him.
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Speaker 4: This was what age? This was 19.
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Speaker 1: Because by the time you turn 18, of course, in
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Speaker 1: South Carolina, you're considered an adult. Parents, even if they're
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Speaker 1: on your health insurance, which he was up until, you know,
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Speaker 1: he passed away, I don't have a say in that.
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Speaker 4: In his mental health care.
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Speaker 1: So now you have a 18-year-old, 19-year-old who's diagnosed with
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Speaker 1: bipolar schizophrenia, and they're trying to navigate this on their
7:24
Speaker 1: own already with the brain development.
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Speaker 4: You're not mature enough to handle that.
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Speaker 1: These kids nowadays are not even that mature enough to
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Speaker 1: handle life, period, at 18 or 19.
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Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
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Speaker 1: So that's what I've been working on, too, with legislation,
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Speaker 1: with Senate Bill 862, with Dion Teder.
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Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 1: He heard our family story and some of the struggles
7:44
Speaker 1: that we went through. To change where in emergency crisis situations, yeah,
7:50
Speaker 1: there's the mobile crisis unit that folks can call. But
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Speaker 1: what happened with our family was there was a local
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Speaker 1: hospital there. His friend called me and said, Julian says
8:01
Speaker 1: that when I drop him off, he's going to do
8:05
Speaker 1: something bad. And so I was able to find my
8:08
Speaker 1: way to him, talk him to getting into the car.
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Speaker 1: We drove to a nearby medical center, and he's still
8:14
Speaker 1: in the car. I get out of the car, frantic,
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Speaker 1: because I'm like, okay, my son is saying he's going
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Speaker 1: to harm himself. We need to get him some help.
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Speaker 1: And she's like, how old is he? He said he's 19. Ma'am,
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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. We can't make him get out the car.
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Speaker 3: Why?
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Speaker 1: Because he's considered an adult, and he didn't want to.
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Speaker 5: Wow.
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Speaker 4: Right?
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Speaker 3: Even though he's clearly in crisis?
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Speaker 1: Right.
8:34
Speaker 4: Wow.
8:35
Speaker 1: So they said, what you can do is you can
8:38
Speaker 1: go to the county and get an emergency order. So
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Speaker 1: I did go inside the hospital because I was like, okay,
8:45
Speaker 1: that's one person's opinion.
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Speaker 4: I'm going in.
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Speaker 1: And I ran into a doctor or a nurse in
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Speaker 1: the hallway. I can't even remember, but I remember the encounter.
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Speaker 1: She's like, can I help you? And I said, and
8:53
Speaker 1: I told her what was going on. And she said, no,
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we can't. But can I pray with you?
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Speaker 1: So she prayed with me right there in the hallway
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Speaker 1: in the hospital. We get in the car.
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Speaker 4: I'm driving.
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Speaker 1: He's in the passenger side. He wants to try to
9:06
Speaker 1: jump out while I'm driving. So I'm having to restrain,
9:10
Speaker 1: you know, a 19-year-old who is forcibly pulling against me
9:15
Speaker 1: to get out and drive to safety until first responders
9:18
Speaker 1: could come and get him, you know, into the hospital.
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Speaker 1: And so that's what Senate Bill 862 in that particular instance—
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Speaker 1: If an adult now they're opening up, I wanted it
9:27
Speaker 1: for 18 to 26 for that critical brain development stage
9:31
Speaker 1: to at least give them a fighting chance so that
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Speaker 1: they can at least be a little bit more mature
9:35
Speaker 1: to understand, hey, I need to follow my treatment plan.
9:38
Speaker 4: I need to take my medication. I need to go
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Speaker 4: to therapy.
9:41
Speaker 1: Right. But through it made it through the Senate. It
9:45
Speaker 1: made it through the House, but it wasn't able to
9:47
Speaker 1: get to the House floor for a vote before the
9:50
Speaker 1: session ended this past spring. So we're going to take
9:55
Speaker 1: it back in January. But now, because of the legislators
9:58
Speaker 1: talking to each other one on one. now it's for anyone.
10:02
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter their age. An adult or a loved
10:07
Speaker 1: one will be, another person will be able to stand
10:09
Speaker 1: in that gap and say this person needs help. So
10:12
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll be able to get it done this go-round
10:16
Speaker 1: when we reintroduce it in January of 2017.
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Speaker 3: When you lose somebody you love to suicide, do you
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Speaker 3: find yourself constantly going back through conversations looking for something
10:25
Speaker 3: you might have missed? Because I feel like you didn't
10:28
Speaker 3: miss anything.
10:28
Speaker 4: No, I didn't. And here's the thing. For some families, yes.
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Speaker 4: Our family was very involved, you know, from the get-go.
10:37
Speaker 4: We asked questions.
10:38
Speaker 1: We read up on his illness because we wanted to
10:42
Speaker 1: know what we were up against, especially if he was
10:45
Speaker 1: not going.
10:46
Speaker 4: To be treatment compliant, right?
10:48
Speaker 1: Right. And we would have open conversations because I was
10:52
Speaker 1: so connected to my sons. I'm so connected where if
10:57
Speaker 1: Julian was feeling heavy, I felt heavy. And sometimes I
11:01
Speaker 1: was like, Julian, please, you know, because I could carry that.
11:05
Speaker 4: I could feel that. And we would have conversations.
11:10
Speaker 1: And even after he would go away for treatment, I
11:12
Speaker 1: think the longest that they kept him was 30 days.
11:15
Speaker 1: But the standard usually was either 72 hours or two weeks.
11:20
Speaker 1: And they send him home with a bunch of medications that,
11:23
Speaker 1: you know, he would take for a couple of weeks
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Speaker 1: and be the little boy that, you know, I knew
11:28
Speaker 1: was on that inside still.
11:29
Speaker 4: Right.
11:30
Speaker 1: And then he would stop because he didn't think he
11:31
Speaker 1: needed it anymore. But we would have those conversations and
11:35
Speaker 1: he would be very open and he would say, Mom,
11:37
Speaker 1: just because I don't talk about it doesn't mean that
11:40
Speaker 1: I'm still not thinking about it. And just with it
11:43
Speaker 1: a few months prior, he was struggling because he wanted
11:47
Speaker 1: to be on his own. He wanted to have his
11:49
Speaker 1: own place. You know, at one point in time, he,
11:51
Speaker 1: you know, had a relationship that didn't work out. And
11:54
Speaker 1: I think that mental health challenge on top of his
11:58
Speaker 1: mental illness.
12:01
Speaker 4: Really made it worse.
12:03
Speaker 1: And I don't talk about that part too much because
12:05
Speaker 1: I don't want to put that on anyone else, of course,
12:10
Speaker 1: because that's not.
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Speaker 4: Their burden to carry, you know?
12:13
Speaker 1: So, And he was standing in the living room and
12:17
Speaker 1: we were saying, well, Julian, you know, these are the
12:19
Speaker 1: certain steps that you have to take. And he kept
12:21
Speaker 1: telling us, you know, I'm running out of time. But
12:23
Speaker 1: we didn't understand what that meant. And he would also say,
12:28
Speaker 1: because I don't want to do it. I don't want
12:30
Speaker 1: to do it. And I said, please don't do that
12:34
Speaker 1: because it's going to don't do that to me, please.
12:38
Speaker 1: And I always said that he made the promise that
12:43
Speaker 1: he could keep. But the mental illness didn't allow him
12:47
Speaker 1: to keep that promise.
12:49
Speaker 6: Did you ever feel that he was hearing voices?
12:52
Speaker 4: He talked about that. Okay.
12:54
Speaker 7: Because he was conscious enough to know and aware enough
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Speaker 7: to know that he didn't want to do it.
12:59
Speaker 4: Yes. And then saying things like, I'm running out of time.
13:02
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.
13:03
Speaker 4: And here's the thing, but I will tell you this.
13:05
Speaker 4: And it was two weeks after he passed. And I
13:11
Speaker 4: had a dream. And in the dream, because we always
13:15
Speaker 4: like to dance together. I don't know if you saw.
13:17
Speaker 1: One, if you looked at the documentary, he was trying
13:20
Speaker 1: to teach me one of the little dances. And in
13:23
Speaker 1: the dream, we were dancing and we stopped. And then
13:26
Speaker 1: he leaned in and he said to me, it wasn't
13:29
Speaker 1: supposed to happen.
13:33
Speaker 4: And I believed that, right?
13:36
Speaker 1: And so I live with that still because I'm like,
13:42
Speaker 1: when it happened.
13:46
Speaker 4: did you think, oh my God, what did I do?
13:50
Speaker 1: You know, and I have to go across the, and
13:53
Speaker 1: God kind of fast tracked me into driving across the
13:56
Speaker 1: bridge in Charleston, beautiful bridge.
13:59
Speaker 4: Everybody knows about it, the Ravenel Bridge. And it's not,
14:05
Speaker 4: I don't do too well with it at night.
14:06
Speaker 1: The daytime I can go over, but I'm just, your mind,
14:12
Speaker 1: and I've heard that when someone takes their life, when
14:15
Speaker 1: they die by suicide, that, especially a mother, is thinking like, okay,
14:22
Speaker 1: you're envisioning how it happened or what it may have.
14:27
Speaker 1: And I get crushed every single time, you know. I
14:31
Speaker 1: think about it, which I still do. I'm handling it.
14:35
Speaker 1: My husband will tell you, you know, you've come a
14:37
Speaker 1: long way. And because I suffered from depression myself, my
14:43
Speaker 1: late teens, even now, my early thirties.
14:46
Speaker 4: Okay. And my last attempt where I felt like I, um,
14:52
Speaker 4: nobody loves me. I don't want to do this. You know,
14:55
Speaker 4: Julian was three months old. He was in one arm.
15:00
Speaker 4: James Edward was just a little over two. He was
15:02
Speaker 4: in my other arm.
15:02
Speaker 1: I was in the bed. I had taken, you know,
15:04
Speaker 1: sleeping pills. I don't know, maybe 15, 17 of them.
15:08
Speaker 1: I didn't go to work Terry base. And my mom
15:10
Speaker 1: showed up at my front door and With a police
15:12
Speaker 1: officer because I didn't, you know, come to work. But
15:15
Speaker 1: in that moment, I realized I've got to live for
15:19
Speaker 1: my sons. And that's how I've kind of, you know,
15:21
Speaker 1: conducted myself with that. And also through the journey, realizing
15:25
Speaker 1: that that's why I think it's so important to have
15:28
Speaker 1: the conversations about mental health in your families. We all know,
15:34
Speaker 1: you know, you try to know your health history, right?
15:37
Speaker 1: If diabetes runs in your family, if heart conditions, whatever
15:40
Speaker 1: the case may be. We need to know our mental
15:44
Speaker 1: health background for our family. But sometimes that's rough, right,
15:49
Speaker 1: because you don't talk about it.
15:50
Speaker 3: Did you ever put any blame on yourself, like, oh,
15:53
Speaker 3: he got this from me?
15:58
Speaker 4: In a way, sometimes.
16:00
Speaker 1: I try not to go there because I found out
16:04
Speaker 1: that my mother, depression and anxiety, But nobody talked about that.
16:11
Speaker 3: I wasn't my family with my dad.
16:13
Speaker 4: Right.
16:14
Speaker 1: Had I known that, then maybe I would have been
16:16
Speaker 1: I would have recognized it in myself. Right. And recognized
16:21
Speaker 1: it earlier in my son or understand that this is
16:26
Speaker 1: a possibility or could be and then start taking care of.
16:30
Speaker 1: the mental health early on of your children's mental health.
16:34
Speaker 3: But did you know?
16:34
Speaker 1: No.
16:35
Speaker 4: Did you even know that you were suffering from depression?
16:37
Speaker 7: I'm sure your mom probably didn't even know what it
16:39
Speaker 7: was or how to navigate it.
16:41
Speaker 4: Well, I did. Well, here's the thing.
16:43
Speaker 1: I did because I was on a 72. Oh, let
16:45
Speaker 1: me tell you, because that wasn't the first time I
16:46
Speaker 1: did that. Let's go back to when I was in college,
16:50
Speaker 1: when I was at Baptist College, which is now Charleston Southern.
16:53
Speaker 4: That was my first attempt. Okay. I would say overall,
16:58
Speaker 4: maybe I've tried three. three or four times. Right.
17:04
Speaker 1: And so I was on, I've been on a 72
17:05
Speaker 1: hour hold. I was on a 72 hour hold when
17:07
Speaker 1: I was in Nashville, I was doing radio in Nashville,
17:10
Speaker 1: but I knew, I grew to know what my triggers were. Right.
17:18
Speaker 1: If you can master what your trick, if you know
17:20
Speaker 1: first what your triggers are and master to work against that,
17:24
Speaker 1: which is what I did, then you can kind of
17:27
Speaker 1: overcome it. But I also learned from over the past
17:30
Speaker 1: year with talking to experts and when we were filming
17:32
Speaker 1: the documentary that it never really goes away, but I
17:37
Speaker 1: know how to manage it. And I'm still considered high risk.
17:42
Speaker 4: Right.
17:43
Speaker 5: That's what I was going to ask you about was
17:44
Speaker 5: the managing of it.
17:45
Speaker 1: Right.
17:45
Speaker 3: Because.
17:46
Speaker 5: Even when you can identify it, you take someone to
17:48
Speaker 5: go get the help, the therapy or whatever, you don't
17:51
Speaker 5: always know when they're having those moments of that isolation, those,
17:54
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying?
17:55
Speaker 1: Right.
17:56
Speaker 6: It can appear completely different.
17:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:59
Speaker 6: So like, what's the real solution in a situation like that?
18:05
Speaker 4: That's what mental health is so hard. It's so hard.
18:11
Speaker 1: Um, I would have to say, I mean, you have
18:15
Speaker 1: to have the conversations. You have to express this is
18:17
Speaker 1: how I'm feeling or this is me at baseline or
18:21
Speaker 1: recognizing what that person's baseline is versus if they're at
18:28
Speaker 1: that point.
18:29
Speaker 4: Right.
18:29
Speaker 1: So I know if she or he or she is
18:32
Speaker 1: like this, OK, they're good. But then I see something else.
18:36
Speaker 1: We just have to be hyper aware or choose to be,
18:39
Speaker 1: but not in an overbearing way. or I'm trying to
18:42
Speaker 1: analyze you or, you know, are you having a moment?
18:44
Speaker 1: Are you, you know, whatever the case may be. But
18:48
Speaker 1: I've kind of, I would like to say I've delivered,
18:50
Speaker 1: I've been delivered from that. I think my faith has
18:54
Speaker 1: a lot to do with that because I also look
18:55
Speaker 1: at it as fighting a.
19:00
Speaker 4: Spiritual, anti-spiritual entity, right?
19:04
Speaker 7: Go ahead.
19:05
Speaker 2: I was going to say, well, first, Thank you for
19:07
Speaker 2: sharing your story.
19:08
Speaker 3: Oh, it's a lot more. No, no, no, no.
19:11
Speaker 2: But even this, the fact that you've been through it
19:13
Speaker 2: many times, very difficult. I've been there before. The reason
19:17
Speaker 2: I say it's difficult is because you don't want to
19:19
Speaker 2: be judged, right? Right. Because people don't know. Because the
19:22
Speaker 2: first thing that people always say is, get over it. Or,
19:26
Speaker 2: you know, how could you do that? The Bible says
19:27
Speaker 2: if you do that, you're going to hell. But for
19:29
Speaker 2: most time, people don't realize what your mind is going
19:32
Speaker 2: through during that time. That you don't feel loved. People
19:35
Speaker 2: don't want you. You don't want to be around. So
19:37
Speaker 2: my question to you is, when your son was dealing
19:39
Speaker 2: with depression, anxiety, what was this, what was, I don't
19:42
Speaker 2: want to say the switch, but what turned, right? Because
19:45
Speaker 2: you said it was normal. You felt he was special,
19:47
Speaker 2: but everything was fine. Was it, you feel, was it
19:49
Speaker 2: the bullying was it him not feeling away what do
19:53
Speaker 2: you feel got him to that moment because as a
19:56
Speaker 2: father of six I'm always interested in watching my kids
19:59
Speaker 2: to see what changes how they feel what they're like
20:01
Speaker 2: is it bullying is it something you know what was
20:04
Speaker 2: that change I think for him.
20:05
Speaker 1: It was the bullying And he I mean, and I
20:09
Speaker 1: would always tell him, I said, they're just doing that
20:11
Speaker 1: because they're jealous of you, because, you know, you had
20:15
Speaker 1: the hazel eyes that, you know, square jaws that people
20:18
Speaker 1: now are trying to make themselves have.
20:20
Speaker 4: You know, he was a good looking young little boy.
20:23
Speaker 4: I mean, his ears were a little big. I mean,
20:25
Speaker 4: you know, I find a little humorous. I still have
20:29
Speaker 4: to laugh because he was like, they said my ears
20:31
Speaker 4: are too big. I said, your granddaddy's ears are big.
20:34
Speaker 4: Your granddaddy was fine. My dad, he was a good
20:36
Speaker 4: looking man. So you're growing. So what?
20:39
Speaker 3: Who cares?
20:40
Speaker 4: You know, you're so much more than this. I said,
20:42
Speaker 4: can they write poetry?
20:44
Speaker 1: No, ma'am.
20:44
Speaker 4: Okay, you can do that. You're this, this.
20:46
Speaker 1: I always try to for the positive, but those voices,
20:50
Speaker 1: but it still wasn't enough, you know, because what mattered
20:53
Speaker 1: to them most was being accepted.
20:57
Speaker 2: When that is the situation, right? Sometimes you feel like
21:01
Speaker 2: you don't listen to the calling, meaning, right? If my
21:05
Speaker 2: son says he's not accepted, right? What's the first thing
21:07
Speaker 2: you do as a father? You say the same exact
21:09
Speaker 2: thing that you said. No, it's not.
21:11
Speaker 1: It's you.
21:11
Speaker 2: You're handsome. You're this. You're that. You got that from this.
21:15
Speaker 2: Sometimes we never think, you know what? I'm going to
21:18
Speaker 2: pull my son from that school because it feels like
21:20
Speaker 2: I'm not going to let them motherfuckers win.
21:21
Speaker 4: Excuse my French.
21:22
Speaker 2: I'm not going to let them win. You know what
21:23
Speaker 2: I mean? But do you feel like as parents, not
21:26
Speaker 2: just in your situation, that sometimes that is the answer? Like,
21:29
Speaker 2: you know what? Take him out of that environment. Maybe
21:31
Speaker 2: another environment will be better for him. But then I always,
21:34
Speaker 2: I also feel like I don't want to be the
21:37
Speaker 2: father that my son is always running or my daughter
21:41
Speaker 2: is always running.
21:41
Speaker 4: From school to school because everybody.
21:44
Speaker 2: Well, they don't like him here. They don't like him there.
21:45
Speaker 3: They don't like him here.
21:46
Speaker 2: They don't like him there. And it's always running instead
21:48
Speaker 2: of saying, you know, you got to deal with it
21:49
Speaker 2: because this world is not kind.
21:50
Speaker 4: This world is not nice.
21:52
Speaker 2: So what is your thoughts when it comes to that?
21:54
Speaker 1: And it's almost just like how you said, because you don't,
21:57
Speaker 1: now if you're putting, pulling them out of these situations,
22:00
Speaker 1: you're shielding them from life. Reality. You're shielding them from reality.
22:06
Speaker 1: And that's the saddest part of this whole thing, I think.
22:09
Speaker 1: It's just the world is cruel, even more cruel, I think,
22:14
Speaker 1: than when we were coming up as kids, right? They
22:18
Speaker 1: have a lot more to deal with now than we
22:22
Speaker 1: ever did. And if we keep moving them or pulling
22:27
Speaker 1: them out of a situation and putting them into another
22:30
Speaker 1: situation and more people don't like them. Okay. That's piling
22:32
Speaker 1: up on them because like now nobody likes me anywhere
22:35
Speaker 1: I go.
22:36
Speaker 4: And then it further isolates them, I think.
22:39
Speaker 5: Right.
22:39
Speaker 1: Because they're already mental illness for some versus a mental
22:43
Speaker 1: health challenge, because that's another thing I've also, I've learned
22:46
Speaker 1: to separate mental health challenges. We can all have a
22:49
Speaker 1: mental health challenge at any point. We lose our jobs.
22:52
Speaker 1: We did this, you know, things snowball. Oh my God,
22:54
Speaker 1: what am I going to do? I don't feel, you know,
22:55
Speaker 1: and now you're just.
22:56
Speaker 4: Like, schizophrenia is an illness right but.
23:00
Speaker 1: It's an illness and so when you put the life's
23:02
Speaker 1: pressures at a certain age on top of a mental
23:05
Speaker 1: illness it's almost like they don't have a fighting chance
23:09
Speaker 1: if they're not being treated.
23:10
Speaker 2: Was it a white school yeah now see now that's
23:14
Speaker 2: another conversation I have with my wife all the time
23:17
Speaker 2: sadly you know we move into a nice area right
23:20
Speaker 2: we leave where we are we move into a nice
23:22
Speaker 2: area better school district and a lot of times our
23:23
Speaker 2: kids are in school with kids that don't look like
23:26
Speaker 2: them right right And, you know, Madison. Madison is about
23:29
Speaker 2: to be 25. It affected her in a negative way.
23:32
Speaker 2: Because now she's at the school, predominantly white, and she
23:35
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like she's wanted. Like they like her. Like
23:39
Speaker 2: nobody in that school looks like her. When it's time
23:41
Speaker 2: for prom, they're not asking her. They're asking all the
23:43
Speaker 2: other white girls. And it affected her for a long time.
23:46
Speaker 2: And there was nothing I could do to fix it, right?
23:48
Speaker 2: Because you want her to have the best school district
23:51
Speaker 2: with the best opportunities and the best programs.
23:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
23:56
Speaker 2: But sometimes that affected her in a negative way. So,
23:58
Speaker 2: you know, what are you doing? That's why I ask,
23:59
Speaker 2: because it's like, he probably, those kids, as fucked up
24:03
Speaker 2: as it sounds, were probably listening to what their parents say,
24:06
Speaker 2: making fun of your son.
24:07
Speaker 3: They didn't see him.
24:08
Speaker 2: They didn't see him. He didn't see himself. He didn't
24:11
Speaker 2: see himself in them. So it's easy to say, look
24:13
Speaker 2: at those lips. Look at those ears.
24:14
Speaker 1: Look at those things.
24:14
Speaker 2: Look at the color of your skin. You know what
24:16
Speaker 2: I mean? And for him, he's like, I'm a boy
24:19
Speaker 2: like you. I just want to do this. And I
24:21
Speaker 2: could see that affecting him. I just think as parents,
24:23
Speaker 2: we have to keep that in mind sometimes that, I
24:25
Speaker 2: know it's a better education and I know it's this,
24:28
Speaker 2: but our kids are hurting because we didn't have that.
24:30
Speaker 2: Because even when me growing up, I got made fun
24:32
Speaker 2: of all the time, but.
24:33
Speaker 3: Still does.
24:35
Speaker 4: I've heard.
24:36
Speaker 2: But it doesn't affect me because these kids were like,
24:39
Speaker 2: they would make fun of me, but then we go
24:41
Speaker 2: play basketball.
24:41
Speaker 5: Right.
24:42
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
24:42
Speaker 3: It was different.
24:43
Speaker 2: You know, it was different where here... Those kids are not.
24:47
Speaker 7: And you already said earlier that he could not understand hate.
24:51
Speaker 4: Right, he didn't understand hate.
24:53
Speaker 7: It was just like it made him almost malfunction in
24:55
Speaker 7: a way. So like you said, it was kind of
24:57
Speaker 7: like he didn't have a fighting chance. But earlier, even
25:00
Speaker 7: before that, you said that you did experience depression younger
25:04
Speaker 7: with both of your babies.
25:06
Speaker 2: You were taking sleeping pills.
25:07
Speaker 4: You were trying to take your own life.
25:09
Speaker 6: Did you have those conversations with him at all?
25:12
Speaker 4: Like to level with him? Like I've been here.
25:14
Speaker 3: Yes.
25:14
Speaker 4: Okay. That's the thing, Jess.
25:16
Speaker 1: And that's why when I said I've been, I was
25:20
Speaker 1: in a 13 year.
25:21
Speaker 4: Fight to keep him alive. And, and in the business
25:31
Speaker 4: that I'm in.
25:31
Speaker 1: The television news and being privy to you know, things
25:40
Speaker 1: that come in, news tips or whatever. If I ever
25:44
Speaker 1: heard of, okay, there's something happening over here or something happening,
25:48
Speaker 1: I would do a soft check-in. And I would send
25:52
Speaker 1: him a text. Hey, if I saw the three dots
25:55
Speaker 1: come up, then I could exhale because it wasn't him.
26:00
Speaker 1: And that's how I lived life for a very long time.
26:05
Speaker 1: And sometimes, you know, once he became of age and
26:08
Speaker 1: He would go downtown. He would spend a lot of
26:10
Speaker 1: time downtown Charleston. He would do street performances and go
26:14
Speaker 1: to the his little hangouts, the bars, spoken word. And
26:18
Speaker 1: he was even in a I don't know what kind
26:20
Speaker 1: of band was that.
26:21
Speaker 4: Was that a rock band? It was a rock band. Grunge.
26:24
Speaker 1: Grunge.
26:24
Speaker 4: Grunge.
26:24
Speaker 7: Thank you.
26:25
Speaker 1: You know more.
26:25
Speaker 4: Thank you. Grunge band.
26:27
Speaker 1: He he's he's done it all. And, you know, he
26:30
Speaker 1: would not come home. And I'd wake up, my husband said,
26:33
Speaker 1: did you hear from Julian? I was like, no, call him.
26:36
Speaker 6: And then your nerves go.
26:36
Speaker 1: I call again, especially if it goes straight to voicemail
26:39
Speaker 1: or it doesn't. And I'm just like, Julian, please do
26:41
Speaker 1: your best to let us know if you're not going to,
26:45
Speaker 1: if you're going to be out, at least we know.
26:47
Speaker 4: Right.
26:48
Speaker 1: So, um, it's just, and I had to leave the
26:55
Speaker 1: air once because there was a situation between him and
26:58
Speaker 1: his brother that I had to get home, you know,
27:02
Speaker 1: Because it's hard sometimes, even for family members, I think,
27:05
Speaker 1: to understand mental illness. Because sometimes often they'd want to say,
27:12
Speaker 1: he's just using that as an excuse to get off or,
27:16
Speaker 1: you know, so you could treat him differently or so,
27:18
Speaker 1: you know. But I learned to know who Julian was
27:22
Speaker 1: and I learned to know who he.
27:24
Speaker 4: Was with the mental illness.
27:25
Speaker 2: How does brother take it?
27:28
Speaker 1: The diagnosis, the whole diagnosis or... And I don't want
27:35
Speaker 1: to speak for him.
27:37
Speaker 4: I can't speak for him. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
27:48
Speaker 6: How's your relationship with your other son?
27:57
Speaker 1: Um....
28:01
Speaker 4: I think you're not as good as I would like. Yeah.
28:08
Speaker 4: The morning when everything happened.
28:17
Speaker 1: Julian called his brother. And he called his stepdad. We
28:21
Speaker 1: didn't hear the phone ring. I don't want to put
28:26
Speaker 1: that on some.
28:28
Speaker 4: I'm not. I can't do that. That's not because....
28:33
Speaker 1: Had my, um, cause my husband had, he's living with
28:36
Speaker 1: the fact that I I've been able to talk him
28:38
Speaker 1: down before I could have talked him down. Had we
28:41
Speaker 1: heard the phone, you know, had we heard the phone
28:44
Speaker 1: and he left my husband a two minute message that
28:47
Speaker 1: in the weeks following, you know, he listened to it
28:50
Speaker 1: every day. And he said to me, one day I
28:54
Speaker 1: want you to listen to it so you can understand.
28:57
Speaker 1: And I said, I don't, I'm not ready. I'm not
28:59
Speaker 1: ready to do that. Um, I don't know what was
29:03
Speaker 1: said between him and his brother because, because of, I
29:08
Speaker 1: would say because of Julian's illness, it wasn't the best. Right.
29:14
Speaker 4: And I only know part of the story. Okay.
29:21
Speaker 1: Um, but there's no, you know, ill feelings, whatever, you know,
29:26
Speaker 1: it's just me and my son are just navigating everything.
29:33
Speaker 1: His life now and in the aftermath of everything.
29:38
Speaker 2: Well, he didn't call you because he knew my mom.
29:40
Speaker 2: talk him down. Yeah. That was the reason why he
29:41
Speaker 2: didn't call you.
29:42
Speaker 1: And that's why I was saying, and I knew that.
29:45
Speaker 1: And that, 10-19, it's my birthday.
29:52
Speaker 4: Yeah.
29:59
Speaker 3: Another thing I don't want to get lost in this conversation.
30:02
Speaker 3: You know, Julian committed suicide, but prior to that, you
30:06
Speaker 3: lost your mother, your father, and then your son. Back
30:11
Speaker 3: to back. Is there a difference between grieving somebody who
30:15
Speaker 3: died and grieving somebody who died by suicide?
30:26
Speaker 5: Wow.
30:27
Speaker 4: That's a good question.
30:28
Speaker 1: And if I have to look at my situation cause
30:32
Speaker 1: I lost my mom two days after mother's day, 2025,
30:38
Speaker 1: her husband of almost 55 years in the beginning of
30:44
Speaker 1: July and Julian two weeks after we buried my stepdad. Um,
30:55
Speaker 1: and he performed at my dad's, um, service, my stepdad's service.
31:06
Speaker 1: I think for some families, it can be different because
31:11
Speaker 1: some families are left with questions as to why, especially
31:14
Speaker 1: if they didn't know their loved one was struggling.
31:17
Speaker 4: So there's no closure, right?
31:20
Speaker 1: Versus if you lose a parent, you know, mama was
31:23
Speaker 1: 70 on the verge of 79. She would have been
31:25
Speaker 1: 79 and 25. My stepdad had, was in heart failure,
31:32
Speaker 1: you know. So we kind of, you know, that's, you know,
31:38
Speaker 1: you kind of expect that. So you're grieving your parents
31:40
Speaker 1: because they were always together.
31:42
Speaker 6: Yeah.
31:43
Speaker 1: And we always used to joke that they would go together. And,
31:45
Speaker 1: you know, that almost came true. So we're used to
31:48
Speaker 1: now the two heads of the family are gone within
31:50
Speaker 1: a month of each other, right? For Julian, in this
31:53
Speaker 1: particular case, because I had read up on his, um,
31:58
Speaker 1: illness that if left untreated, this is what could happen.
32:03
Speaker 4: This is what could happen. Only thing is we didn't
32:06
Speaker 4: know when.
32:08
Speaker 1: I thought it would have been, if it ever happened,
32:10
Speaker 1: it would have been later in life. Right. I didn't,
32:15
Speaker 1: and I certainly didn't expect it when it happened because
32:17
Speaker 1: we had just come back from the city. We had
32:20
Speaker 1: just gotten back from the city Saturday evening.
32:23
Speaker 6: Hmm.
32:25
Speaker 1: He woke up the next morning to go– went to
32:28
Speaker 1: work as normal. My husband saw him. You know, he
32:33
Speaker 1: was in good spirits. He asked, you know, how was
32:35
Speaker 1: the trip and everything. He said, okay, I'll see you later.
32:38
Speaker 1: And he left to go to work, and he never
32:40
Speaker 1: came back home. That night at 8.30, he texted me.
32:43
Speaker 4: How was New York? You know, I bet it was hot. Yeah,
32:46
Speaker 4: and I did that.
32:46
Speaker 1: And I said I made chicken alfredo because that was
32:48
Speaker 1: his favorite. And he said, make enough– save me enough
32:51
Speaker 1: for two people. So that meant, you know, I put
32:53
Speaker 1: it in a little container. So when he came home,
32:55
Speaker 1: but something happened between 830 that night.
32:57
Speaker 4: And two in the morning. Right. So it all depends.
33:03
Speaker 1: If you don't have any closure, you don't know that
33:04
Speaker 1: your loved one is struggling and it happens. I think
33:08
Speaker 1: that's the hardest part, because now you don't have closure.
33:10
Speaker 1: Now you're racking your mind. All the time trying to
33:13
Speaker 1: remember signs and look for what did I miss?
33:15
Speaker 4: What did I miss?
33:16
Speaker 1: With Julian, we already knew sort of, but we just
33:20
Speaker 1: didn't know when. If he chose not to do his treatment.
33:26
Speaker 3: People always tell grieving families that there's nothing they could
33:29
Speaker 3: have done. How do you actually convince yourself of that?
33:34
Speaker 4: It's through faith.
33:36
Speaker 1: And my husband constantly reminds me that. He's like, babe,
33:41
Speaker 1: you did every short of dragging him or force throwing
33:47
Speaker 1: the medicine down his throat you did everything you could.
33:52
Speaker 6: I was sitting here thinking that literally.
33:55
Speaker 1: Everything I was carrying his pain he carried a lot
34:00
Speaker 1: of just to see your child who is so gifted
34:03
Speaker 1: and talented be so tormented at the same time but
34:07
Speaker 1: still trying to wake up every day and go to
34:10
Speaker 1: work and be creative and be in these spaces. And
34:16
Speaker 1: what I've come to is after I've been meeting the
34:20
Speaker 1: people in his creative community, and it's been kind of
34:23
Speaker 1: heartwarming and kind of therapeutic for me to know who
34:28
Speaker 1: he was to them, right? Saying he was so loving. Oh,
34:32
Speaker 1: my God, he lit up a room. Oh, my God,
34:35
Speaker 1: he was so talented. He was so amazing at this.
34:38
Speaker 1: And for the catering team that he worked with, they
34:41
Speaker 1: want to meet me. because they want to meet Julian's
34:45
Speaker 1: mother because of who he was and what he brought
34:48
Speaker 1: to them. One person said that they had to give
34:51
Speaker 1: up some of the catering jobs because they were used
34:54
Speaker 1: to him being there or being that light and sharing
34:57
Speaker 1: that space with him. That tears me up but makes
35:02
Speaker 1: me smile at the same time, that I wasn't the
35:06
Speaker 1: only person to believe that he was as special as
35:09
Speaker 1: he was.
35:10
Speaker 6: Absolutely. After everything you've been through, how do you deal
35:12
Speaker 6: with or think of the word strong?
35:18
Speaker 1: And I've heard that a lot. And when someone says,
35:22
Speaker 1: you are so strong, with that comes a lot of pressure.
35:29
Speaker 1: Because it looks like I'm handling it doesn't mean that
35:32
Speaker 1: I still don't cry myself to sleep at night still.
35:36
Speaker 1: Because I do.
35:40
Speaker 4: Even when I've gone to a lash.
35:41
Speaker 1: Appointment, I'm laying to get my lashes done, and it
35:45
Speaker 1: hits me, and I'm just like, can we stop? And
35:49
Speaker 1: then it turns out my lash person was actually my cousin, Whitney.
35:52
Speaker 1: We found out we were related.
35:53
Speaker 4: James Allen, everybody's related. You know, and she'd stop, you know,
35:57
Speaker 4: give me a hug. You okay? Talk me through it.
35:59
Speaker 4: I mean, it could be anywhere.
36:02
Speaker 1: There's been a time where I've been, because I solo
36:05
Speaker 1: anchor the 7 o'clock, where it would hit me because...
36:08
Speaker 1: it had gotten to the point where he would come
36:10
Speaker 1: over to the TV station for us to have dinner
36:12
Speaker 1: once a week or every other week. And he'd get
36:14
Speaker 1: there early and he'd sit across at the table, you know,
36:20
Speaker 1: in the studio. And I could see him from, you know,
36:22
Speaker 1: from my vantage point. And I would just, even at
36:26
Speaker 1: a commercial break, just kind of go there and I
36:28
Speaker 1: could see him sitting there and I'm like, okay, don't
36:30
Speaker 1: do this.
36:31
Speaker 4: Don't do this. I could feel myself starting. I would
36:33
Speaker 4: have to get up, walk out. Please don't do this.
36:36
Speaker 4: Don't do it. Don't do it. And I've been reading
36:38
Speaker 4: a story and want to cry. So I'm not.
36:44
Speaker 6: Strong.
36:46
Speaker 4: I'm handling it the best way that I can. But
36:48
Speaker 4: I will say this.
36:49
Speaker 1: God has been with me every step of the way
36:52
Speaker 1: because this is what happened that morning. And this is
36:56
Speaker 1: where this part of my testimony comes in. I said everything.
37:00
Speaker 1: God has been with me every step of the way
37:02
Speaker 1: and every word that he has said is true.
37:07
Speaker 4: Even in the midst of that, when I got the news,
37:11
Speaker 4: I prayed for Julian Sol. I did that first.
37:16
Speaker 1: I said, God, please welcome him. Please welcome him. Second,
37:20
Speaker 1: I said, thank you, God. I thank God. The third
37:25
Speaker 1: thing I said, Satan, you did not win. Because I've
37:29
Speaker 1: known all my life that I was the target. Right?
37:34
Speaker 4: The depression.
37:36
Speaker 1: was supposed to have taken me out a long time ago.
37:39
Speaker 1: The feeling of not being loved or wanted and being
37:44
Speaker 1: put in the care of a woman who was not
37:46
Speaker 1: my biological mother at five months old, but I'm one
37:50
Speaker 1: of six children, but I was plucked out of that
37:53
Speaker 1: situation at five months old, right? Having to deal with
37:58
Speaker 1: that and feeling like I didn't fit in all the
38:01
Speaker 1: time with my biological family because that was one of
38:04
Speaker 1: the agreements with my mothers, both named Dolores.
38:08
Speaker 2: Dang.
38:10
Speaker 5: Right?
38:12
Speaker 1: That I had to know who my biological family was,
38:14
Speaker 1: but at the same time growing up, not feeling a
38:16
Speaker 1: part of either. I was just sort of in the middle,
38:20
Speaker 1: but I wanted to create my own family, you know,
38:23
Speaker 1: and have my sons, you know, and be married.
38:26
Speaker 4: But Satan just knew that.
38:31
Speaker 1: When God took Julian home to rest, because that would
38:33
Speaker 1: be the only way that he could have been at peace,
38:35
Speaker 1: because he was so tormented on this earth, in the
38:39
Speaker 1: way the world is now, that he was sure that, oh,
38:43
Speaker 1: I got her now, because now this is going to
38:46
Speaker 1: take her out. There's no way that she's going to
38:49
Speaker 1: be able to go or to come back from this.
38:52
Speaker 1: But I came back, and I came back stronger, but
38:56
Speaker 1: only because God has been with me.
38:59
Speaker 4: There was one time I.
39:00
Speaker 1: Got up, And I would tell my husband, because my home,
39:04
Speaker 1: after I went back to work, home was my safe space.
39:08
Speaker 1: And even when I started venturing out, like going to
39:10
Speaker 1: the mall or going out, I was like, I can't.
39:13
Speaker 6: I can't.
39:13
Speaker 4: I got to get back home. Got to get back home.
39:18
Speaker 1: I would always say, okay, I have to go lay down.
39:20
Speaker 1: And I went and I laid down and I just
39:22
Speaker 1: started crying. Just crying, crying, crying. And in the weeks
39:27
Speaker 1: of Julian's passing, all I could... hear in my head
39:31
Speaker 1: was Julian, Julian, Julian, Julian. All I could hear was
39:34
Speaker 1: his name, Julian, Julian, Julian. It was on repeat in
39:38
Speaker 1: my head. And I believe in the spiritual realm. I
39:44
Speaker 1: believe in all of that.
39:47
Speaker 4: I felt just like, come here. Like, you feel like that, right?
39:52
Speaker 1: Imagine that on your shin, on your leg. I was
39:55
Speaker 1: laying in the bed. I felt that pressure like somebody
39:59
Speaker 1: was touching me. And I recognized it, and I know
40:02
Speaker 1: I felt it because I sat up. I stopped crying,
40:05
Speaker 1: and I sat up. I was the only person in
40:07
Speaker 1: the room. There was no television on. I know what
40:09
Speaker 1: I felt, but I felt peace at that moment, and
40:13
Speaker 1: I believe that was God letting me know I'm here.
40:18
Speaker 1: And another thing that I came across, I was on
40:21
Speaker 1: my way to work and I had the urge to
40:23
Speaker 1: start praying.
40:24
Speaker 6: Right.
40:25
Speaker 1: And I, when I was hearing myself, I'm like praying.
40:28
Speaker 1: Like I've never heard myself pray before. But what I
40:32
Speaker 1: said was, God, you've been chasing after me. I've been
40:35
Speaker 1: chasing after you. But if it took Julian leaving here
40:39
Speaker 1: for me to spread your word and to show that
40:42
Speaker 1: you are with the broken hearted, that joy does come
40:45
Speaker 1: in the morning, then thy will has been done. And
40:49
Speaker 1: so that's an, at that point, I had a clarity. Yes,
40:52
Speaker 1: I'm going to grieve. Yes, I'm grieving. And it's okay
40:56
Speaker 1: because I lost my son. A mother lost her child.
41:02
Speaker 1: I'm going to go through that, but I'm not alone.
41:04
Speaker 3: That's right.
41:06
Speaker 4: I'm not alone.
41:07
Speaker 1: And I haven't been alone. This whole journey, Jess, I
41:10
Speaker 1: have not been alone.
41:12
Speaker 4: You know?
41:12
Speaker 1: So.
41:14
Speaker 3: It's like that footprints poster.
41:16
Speaker 4: Yes. When I said.
41:20
Speaker 1: When I get excited, I want to run around this room.
41:24
Speaker 1: The word is true, but you've got to allow it.
41:29
Speaker 1: Because I've met mothers along this journey as well who
41:32
Speaker 1: are still grieving. They're grieving someone, not even losing a
41:35
Speaker 1: child from suicide, but from being murdered, that have still not.
41:40
Speaker 4: Gotten over it and hate God. You let my child die.
41:48
Speaker 1: I've chosen to look at it as you rescued my
41:52
Speaker 1: son from a world that is so broken. And to
41:56
Speaker 1: honor that because you have been with me, I've got
41:59
Speaker 1: to honor you in all spaces that I'm in. I mean,
42:03
Speaker 1: and I'm not, I'm not Bible thumping by no means.
42:05
Speaker 1: Can I quote scripture at all? You know, but I
42:09
Speaker 1: do know the Lord. I do love him.
42:11
Speaker 4: And I try to live my life in a way
42:14
Speaker 4: that is acceptable to him. I'm not perfect.
42:17
Speaker 1: And sometimes I've, I've had a, Days so bad, sometimes
42:20
Speaker 1: I'm riding a car, I'm sorry about that. I know
42:22
Speaker 1: I fell short 80% today. I'm going to do better tomorrow.
42:27
Speaker 3: I want to talk to you about pain and purpose, right?
42:29
Speaker 3: People love to say they're turning their pain into purpose.
42:33
Speaker 3: But does having a purpose actually make the pain any
42:37
Speaker 3: easier to live with?
42:39
Speaker 1: What I found in this, it's a good segue into
42:42
Speaker 1: me starting the Save Our Sons and Daughters SC, which
42:47
Speaker 1: was another thing. It doesn't take away the pain because
42:52
Speaker 1: I still have moments even when we're out there advocating
42:55
Speaker 1: to support families because we have to support the families
43:00
Speaker 1: of loved ones who have mental health challenges and who
43:04
Speaker 1: have mental illness because we go through it too. If
43:07
Speaker 1: you're in an involved family, you're going to feel it. You're, you're,
43:11
Speaker 1: you're going through it. I've met parents who have adult
43:13
Speaker 1: children in their thirties, still living at home who are
43:16
Speaker 1: mentally ill and they're having a hard time. My inbox
43:19
Speaker 1: is full all the time of what can I do?
43:21
Speaker 1: What are some resources? How can I, he won't take
43:24
Speaker 1: his medicine. He's not, you know, how old is he?
43:26
Speaker 1: He's 33 right now. And this, this is, you know,
43:28
Speaker 1: that and a third. So I'm helping, um, as many
43:33
Speaker 1: people as I can, not as fast as I can
43:36
Speaker 1: with educating, but I'm doing it for Julian and as
43:45
Speaker 1: part of Julian's legacy so that he is still living on.
43:49
Speaker 1: And there was another thing. When I was pregnant with him,
43:50
Speaker 1: everything comes back connected. When I was pregnant with him,
43:53
Speaker 1: for some reason, I remember rubbing my belly saying, it's
43:55
Speaker 1: always going to be me and you. It's always going
43:57
Speaker 1: to be me and you. Mind you, I have an
43:59
Speaker 1: older son. I'm married. But now I know what that
44:04
Speaker 1: means now because I am still, it's always going to
44:08
Speaker 1: be me and him now because of what's been birthed
44:11
Speaker 1: out of my pain is a purpose to help other families.
44:14
Speaker 1: And it's because of him, the bill in the Senate,
44:17
Speaker 1: in Columbia, in South Carolina, Julian's bill.
44:23
Speaker 4: It's an honor of helping other people. So it's bittersweet.
44:28
Speaker 1: And when, if I get to talking about him, just
44:30
Speaker 1: like today, you know, Still crying. You know, I still
44:34
Speaker 1: cry about it. But it's a pill that I can
44:39
Speaker 1: swallow a lot easier than I could have a little
44:43
Speaker 1: over a year ago. But Save Our Sons and Daughters, SC,
44:48
Speaker 1: so sad, SC.
44:51
Speaker 4: For short.
44:53
Speaker 1: And I want to be able to grow it into
44:55
Speaker 1: other states because it's not just South Carolina. Yeah. I'm
45:00
Speaker 1: actually speaking with a woman now in New Jersey who
45:02
Speaker 1: wants to bring it there. And she's in the mental
45:06
Speaker 1: health field.
45:07
Speaker 4: And I said, well, we're just getting started. Just, you know,
45:09
Speaker 4: so just bear with me.
45:11
Speaker 1: We'll get there. But I feel like this is what
45:15
Speaker 1: God has wanted me to do. But it had to
45:19
Speaker 1: come through a lot of pain. And every time I
45:23
Speaker 1: get that feeling, I kind of liken it to having
45:28
Speaker 1: a contract labor pains because it's like, oh, the pain
45:32
Speaker 1: is coming.
45:32
Speaker 4: It's coming. It's coming.
45:33
Speaker 1: I got to feel it. I got to feel it.
45:34
Speaker 1: I got to push through it till it stops. So
45:38
Speaker 1: I'm still having, you know, having to do that. But
45:43
Speaker 1: it's all for him. He was part of Moja, the 22nd.
45:49
Speaker 1: the juried art exhibition, because there's one picture that I
45:52
Speaker 1: took of him. It's the profile picture, a black and
45:55
Speaker 1: white photo that I took of him when he was struggling.
45:58
Speaker 1: I was at a live broadcast that I had to
46:01
Speaker 1: do for the news. And he went and sat down
46:04
Speaker 1: on the curb and I saw it, snapped it, made
46:08
Speaker 1: it into a black and white.
46:08
Speaker 4: It was a nice profile, you know, pic.
46:11
Speaker 1: That pic now has sort of become the face of,
46:15
Speaker 1: of so sad. And I, it was the only picture
46:20
Speaker 1: that I could look at after he passed. Cause looking
46:25
Speaker 1: at him, a picture of him full frontal, my heart
46:31
Speaker 1: couldn't take that, but I could at least stand looking
46:33
Speaker 1: at a profile of him. But in that particular picture,
46:37
Speaker 1: he was carrying so much that day, but that was chosen, um,
46:41
Speaker 1: by Aaron Drummond. Um, with a drum and gallery in
46:45
Speaker 1: Charleston to be part of the 2026 Moja Arts Festival
46:49
Speaker 1: juried art exhibition. So, but he always wanted to be
46:52
Speaker 1: a part of Moja and perform on stage in Moja.
46:56
Speaker 1: And I saw it come through, they were accepting entries
46:59
Speaker 1: and I said, why not? This has been the season
47:02
Speaker 1: of why not? Because now I feel like I have
47:04
Speaker 1: hope and it's, it's the strangest space to be in
47:08
Speaker 1: because now I'm dreaming now and I'm, hoping now more
47:13
Speaker 1: for myself because of Julian, because now.
47:20
Speaker 4: He's a part of anything that I'm doing. Right.
47:23
Speaker 1: And so he always wanted to be a Moja. I
47:25
Speaker 1: submitted it and not thinking it was going to get chosen.
47:28
Speaker 1: I didn't really think I just released it. And that
47:30
Speaker 1: was it. And it was chosen. I said, baby boy,
47:33
Speaker 1: you're part of Moja. Not the way that we imagined it.
47:36
Speaker 1: But another phrase I've always had now, here we are.
47:40
Speaker 4: It's like being here. Here we are.
47:43
Speaker 2: Here we are.
47:44
Speaker 1: Here we are.
47:45
Speaker 3: Do me a favor, y'all. I want y'all to go
47:46
Speaker 3: to SOSADSC.org. You know, look what Save Our Sons and
47:50
Speaker 3: Daughters is doing. Donate if you feel, if the spirit
47:54
Speaker 3: moves you to do it. And I want y'all to
47:56
Speaker 3: go on YouTube and watch Remember Me Breaking the Silence
47:59
Speaker 3: on Mental Illness and Suicide. That's the documentary that Tessa
48:02
Speaker 3: Spencer put together. Tessa, I love you, man.
48:04
Speaker 4: I love you, man.
48:05
Speaker 1: I love you.
48:06
Speaker 3: Anything I can do to help, you know.
48:07
Speaker 4: I'm always here. Hey, you know, I'm... Hey.
48:09
Speaker 5: Hey.
48:10
Speaker 4: He's Charlamagne. He's Tessa.
48:12
Speaker 1: That's how, you know, it makes me smile when I
48:15
Speaker 1: see his name, you know, pop up on the phone,
48:17
Speaker 1: you know.
48:19
Speaker 4: And I'm proud of you.
48:20
Speaker 3: Thank you.
48:21
Speaker 4: And, man, that's all. I'm just proud of you.
48:25
Speaker 3: I'm happy to see you.
48:26
Speaker 4: I'm happy to see you.
48:27
Speaker 3: I'm very happy to see you. So please go watch.
48:29
Speaker 3: Remember me breaking the silence on mental illness and suicide
48:32
Speaker 3: and go to sosadsc.org to support everything that Tessa Spencer
48:37
Speaker 3: is doing.
48:38
Speaker 2: Alright it's Tessa Spencer it's The Breakfast Club good morning