Latest / Hangin' Out with Bob / A “Golden Era” of Twin Cities music: the mid-1960s through the 1970s (an interview with Paul Groves)

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A “Golden Era” of Twin Cities music: the mid-1960s through the 1970s (an interview with Paul Groves) · Hangin' Out with Bob

0:07
Okay, welcome to Hanging Out with Bob, podcast
0:10
hosted by me, Bob Edholm. Thanks for joining
0:16
us and let's get started. Well, on this podcast
0:21
episode of Hanging Out with Bob, we're going
0:23
to talk about the music scene in the Twin Cities
0:25
of Minneapolis and St. Paul from, oh, the mid
0:28
60s and well into the 70s. And I'm picking that
0:31
period of time, the mid -60s and the 70s, because
0:34
it's the music that boomers like me, who were
0:37
born in the 1950s, listened to as we were growing
0:40
up. And joining me to talk about that music scene
0:42
in the Twin Cities during that period is a fellow
0:45
boomer I've known since 1965, when both of us
0:49
were seventh graders at the late, great Columbia
0:52
Junior High School in Columbia Heights, Minnesota,
0:54
the Heights. He's Paul Groves, and he's a walking
0:57
encyclopedia when it comes to the bands and the
1:00
musicians who played in the Twin Cities back
1:02
in the 60s, 70s, and even beyond. So Paul, thanks
1:06
for being here and welcome to hanging out with
1:07
Bob. Thanks, Bob. I want to mention at the outset
1:14
that Paul, even though he attended Columbia Junior
1:16
High School and graduated from Columbia Heights
1:19
Senior High School in 1971 and lived for years,
1:22
decades, in northeast Minneapolis, right? Paul
1:25
has lived in Florida since December of 2019?
1:28
Yes. Okay. In Ocala, Florida, about 80 miles
1:32
northwest of Orlando. Yeah. And it's my understanding
1:35
that since he's lived in Florida, Paul can probably
1:38
count on one hand the number of times he's worn
1:41
long pants, right? Right, two. But Paul has been
1:48
up here in Minnesota since early August because
1:51
2026 also marked the year for the 55 -year reunion
1:55
of the Columbia Heights senior high class of
1:57
1971. It was held on August 8th at CR's Sports
2:01
Bar and Carboni's Pizzeria in Coon Rapids, a
2:05
little free plug for CR's right there, which
2:07
is about a 15 -minute or so drive north of our
2:10
high school. And Paul, you see, even though his
2:13
current residence in Florida is about 1 ,500
2:15
miles away from here in the Twin Cities, Paul
2:17
loves that warm weather in Florida so he can
2:20
wear those short pants every day of the year,
2:22
he actually volunteered to plan and organize
2:24
our class reunion. So I guess you can take Paul
2:27
out of the Heights, but you can't take the Heights
2:29
out of Paul. That's correct. I was at our 55
2:33
-year class reunion, and just let me say, Paul,
2:35
it was a great time. Thanks, Bob. I saw some
2:38
classmates there that I hadn't seen in years.
2:41
So thanks and kudos to you, Paul, and to everyone
2:43
who helped you get that reunion organized and
2:46
set up. Good times. It was. It really was. Now
2:50
before we have him share his thoughts and memories
2:53
of the music scene in the Twin Cities back in
2:55
the mid -60s and into the 70s, let me tell you
2:58
a little bit about Paul. Like I mentioned a moment
3:01
ago, I met Paul when we were both students at
3:03
Columbia Junior High School. Actually both of
3:06
us, it turns out, had lived in Northeast Minneapolis
3:08
when we were young boys, but we went to different
3:11
schools and didn't know each other then. My family
3:14
moved up to the Heights in 1962. I went to the
3:17
then brand new Highland Elementary School in
3:20
the Heights when it opened in 62, and Paul I
3:23
just learned recently attended St. Lawrence,
3:25
a Catholic school in southeast Minneapolis, before
3:28
his family moved to the Heights in 1964. When
3:31
he started sixth grade, it was at Valley View?
3:33
I started the first week at Silver Lake School
3:36
near my house, but there are so many new students
3:39
at Silver Lake that they invented a busload to
3:44
go to Valley View. Okay, so that's where you
3:47
went for sixth grade then? Yes. And as I got
3:50
to know Paul during our junior high school years,
3:53
I learned that he really loved music. When we
3:56
talked about songs that were popular in mid to
3:58
late 60s, you say, a little bit of soul by the
4:01
music explosion? Yeah. pushing too hard by the
4:04
seeds. I'm finding some obscure ones here. Or,
4:07
we ain't got nothing yet by the Blues Magoos.
4:08
I still have all those 45 records. The Blues
4:12
Magoos ain't got nothing yet. Or any hit song
4:15
by the Beatles or Rolling Stones. I remember
4:17
Paul would usually say, I've got that record.
4:20
I still do now. That's amazing. All of them.
4:23
Awesome, awesome. I don't throw away music. No,
4:26
no, that's great. But besides the 45s he owned
4:29
of all the hit songs then, Paul also knew everything,
4:32
it seemed, about the local bands in the Twin
4:34
Cities. And I can't wait to hear Paul share some
4:37
of the stories and memories of the Twin Cities
4:39
music scene that he followed way back when. In
4:42
fact, we're also going to take some time during
4:44
this podcast episode to have Paul talk about
4:46
his own music career, which got its start in
4:48
the late 1960s, right? Yes. Sound good? Yep.
4:54
OK, first of all, Paul, what was your music epiphany?
4:58
By that I mean, was there a song or was there
5:01
a band that influenced you that got you to listen
5:03
to music, whether it was on the radio or on TV
5:06
or on your record player? Seeing the Bad Homens
5:09
play at the Field House in 1964 and 65. The Bad
5:13
Homens, I remember that. They were a Columbia
5:14
Heights band. Okay. And seeing that they could
5:17
play a band on stage, I thought, well, we could
5:21
do that. Yeah. Wow, the Baton was okay. Wow,
5:24
I remember that name. Yeah. Well, I'm sure this
5:27
fall with with listeners on some previous podcast
5:30
episodes done, but for me, my music epiphany,
5:33
if you want to call it that, I came on a Sunday
5:35
night, February 9 1964, just a couple months
5:39
shy of my 11th birthday, when I was one of the
5:42
73 million viewers who saw the Beatles perform
5:45
for the first time on the Ed Sullivan show. I'm
5:47
sure you were one of those 73 million as well,
5:49
right? And thanks to Beatlemania, and maybe the
5:52
British Invasion in general, many American teenagers
5:55
and tweeners, and by tweeners I mean kids in
5:59
the ages 9 to 12, which we were then, we were
6:02
inspired to learn to play a guitar or the drums
6:05
and form our own bands. Garage bands. In Minnesota
6:08
they also had basement bands because it got kind
6:10
of cold in the wintertime to be in the garage.
6:13
But they inspired a lot of kids. And even if
6:15
they didn't start up their own rock bands, After
6:17
seeing the Beatles, the teen and tweener boys
6:20
stopped slicking their hair back with the greasy
6:22
kid stuff and instead started combing it forward
6:25
and loose bangs over their foreheads like the
6:26
Beatles. Back when guys like me still had hair
6:29
on top to grow bangs, you know. Okay, Paul, let's
6:36
talk about the Twin Cities rock music scene,
6:39
starting in the mid -60s. You mentioned the Bad
6:42
Omens were the first band that you saw live.
6:44
Where did you see them again? The Field House.
6:47
Today it's called Mergen Hall, but the Field
6:49
House is what we all call it. And so you were
6:51
what, 10 or 11 years old? 11. Wow. Wow. Okay,
6:55
man. What impressed you most about seeing live
6:58
bands as opposed to just listening to it on the
7:00
radio or seeing them on TV or something? What
7:02
was it about seeing it live? Just to see how
7:05
well they could play cover tunes. that we'd hear
7:08
by national or international bands. Yeah. And
7:11
these are people that are four or five years
7:13
older than us. Yeah. Playing music great. Yeah.
7:17
On stage. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's so cool. And
7:20
then seeing drummers that could sing. Yeah. That
7:22
really did it. That's inspiring. Yeah. Because
7:25
some of the drummers, they were just concentrating
7:27
on playing, but they could sing and play. Man,
7:30
that was awesome. Which is what I did. Yeah.
7:32
Exactly. Exactly. Besides Mergent Hall, where
7:36
were some of the other local venues that you
7:38
first started seeing bands play local bands.
7:40
Where did you go? KC Hall up on 66th and Central
7:44
and Fridley. Sure. Canterbury Pub up on Mississippian
7:49
University. Okay, okay. Casino Royale at Shorewood
7:53
Mall by Moore Lake on 61st and Central. Okay.
7:58
In the strip mall. Wow. Oh, okay. I never went
8:01
to that. I think I know which strip mall you're
8:03
talking about. But that was for like teenage
8:05
kids to go and see music. Wow. Casino Royale.
8:07
And then even eighth floor auditorium at Dayton's
8:10
downtown. Oh, right. Me and Scott used to take
8:13
bus down there all the time. Scott Calhoun. Okay.
8:17
Okay, wow. They had bands there most Saturdays.
8:20
I saw the Yardbirds there in 1966 with Jimmy
8:25
Page and Jeff Beck, who were nobody then. Right,
8:28
right. Just starting out. Holy cow. Wow, that's
8:31
awesome. Okay. And then as you got older and
8:34
started to drive or with friends who could drive,
8:37
what were some other venues that you went to
8:39
that were popular? Do you remember? Launching
8:41
Pad on 10. Oh yeah, that's in Mons View, right?
8:45
The mermaid just down the road from there. The
8:49
Chalet out on Highway 100. I think I know what
8:53
you're talking about. Was that in Robbinsdale
8:54
kind of in that area? Yeah. Okay. Oh, the Chalet.
8:58
Okay. All right. All right. And then talk about
9:00
some of the Twin Cities bands themselves from
9:03
that period. Who were the big name bands, some
9:06
that maybe even had some singles that got played
9:07
on the radio? Who were probably the more popular
9:10
bands back then? South 40. South 40, okay. Dave
9:13
Wagner is a lead singer of South 40. Okay. In
9:16
fact, he just passed away a few months ago. I
9:18
went to a tribute for him just this last Sunday.
9:21
Wow. Okay. Okay. In South 40 became Crow. Crow.
9:26
Yep. Okay. Yep. Okay. Castaways, bell counts.
9:32
I saw the drummer from the Castaways joined Crow.
9:36
Oh, okay. Okay. And a lot of bands from Twin
9:38
Cities switched bands. Okay. The Underbeats became
9:42
Gypsy. Okay. The drummer from the Underbeats
9:45
went to T .C. Atlantic. T .C. Atlantic, yeah.
9:48
So everybody just switched members around a lot,
9:52
a lot more than we knew. Yeah. I remember those
9:55
names, and I remember some of them actually had
9:57
hits that got played on the radio, because the
9:59
cast always had Liar, Liar. Yeah. And I thought,
10:02
gosh, that was in the apocalypse now, even got
10:04
played in a movie. I can remember T .C. Atlantic
10:07
had a song, what is it called, 20 years ago or
10:10
something? 20 years ago. It did Stand By Me,
10:12
Spanish Harlem. Sure, sure. I remember a friend
10:15
of mine actually had an album by T .C. Atlantic.
10:18
It was a live album. I don't know where they
10:21
recorded it. Blue. Okay. To Bel -Ray Ballroom.
10:24
Bel -Ray Ballroom. Is it called Blue? No, it's
10:27
a blue colored album. Oh, okay, okay. TC Atlantic
10:31
live at Bell Ray Ballroom. Okay. Oh, wow. Wow.
10:34
Yeah, so there's some some bands Who would you
10:37
say of those bands back in the mid to late 60s?
10:40
Probably went on to become maybe the most successful
10:43
band as far as maybe even getting a nation or
10:46
national following I'd say Crow Okay. Okay. Gypsy
10:50
was up there Yeah, and in the gypsies were they
10:53
literally the underbeats and became gypsy or
10:55
they kind of some guys and then well A few people
10:59
changed. Okay. Like Gypsy moved to LA in 68.
11:03
They became the house band at the Whiskey. Oh,
11:07
the Whiskey Gogo was it called? Yes, Whiskey
11:09
Gogo. Chicago was the house band. They kind of
11:12
played back and forth with each other. Chicago
11:15
came out with their new double album. They moved
11:18
on and Gypsy took over as the house band. Okay.
11:21
Wow. I did not know that. Interesting. Okay.
11:24
So when they were playing at the Whiskey, their
11:26
drummer which was the drummer from The Accents,
11:31
Tommy Nystrom. He became the drummer. They were
11:35
actually the underbeats when they moved there,
11:37
then became Gypsy. He decided to go home and
11:40
get married, so they picked up Jay Epstein, a
11:44
jazz drummer, and he's the one that played on
11:46
their first album. Double album. That's fascinating.
11:54
You know, Paul, we talked earlier about how the
11:56
start of Beatlemania and the British invasion
11:58
inspired many teens and tweeners to want to learn
12:01
to play guitar and play drums and so on. Have
12:04
you ever heard of an author named Mark A. Nobles?
12:07
I'll be impressed if you have. I've heard of
12:09
him, but I can't see him. He was an author. He
12:11
lived in Texas. He lived in Fort Worth, Texas.
12:13
And he wrote a lot of different things. He wrote
12:15
novels. He wrote screenplays. He wrote historical
12:18
fiction and that kind of stuff. But he came out
12:21
with a book in... 2012 called Fort Worth's Rock
12:25
and Roll Roots. I'm not going to talk about the
12:27
roots of rock and roll in Fort Worth, but he
12:29
had an interesting factoid that I just want to
12:31
share with you. He said, and I'm not sure where
12:33
he got this from, but he said that between 1964
12:35
and 1968, it's estimated that over 180 ,000 garage
12:42
bands formed in the United States alone. I believe
12:44
it. And probably all of them covered Gloria or
12:46
Louie Louie. You bet. Those were the first two
12:48
songs. Not all of these 180 ,000 bands were signed
12:52
to record deals, but several of them did, like
12:56
a group called Creedence Clearwater Revival from
12:59
San Francisco area. Question Mark and the Mysterians
13:03
out of Michigan, 96 tiers. And then the Kingsmen,
13:06
of course. They're out of Portland, Oregon, I
13:08
learned. I didn't know where they were from before
13:10
then. And Creedence, like I said, they've got
13:12
numerous hits. Proud Mary was a great cover song,
13:14
too. I think every band played that, too. When
13:17
you think back then to the mid -60s when you
13:20
were listening to this music on the radio and
13:22
as you played your records and as you saw bands
13:24
play at various local venues around here, at
13:27
what point did you start thinking to yourself,
13:29
I want to do this. I want to get up and play
13:32
for people. This is great. I want to do this
13:34
too. One afternoon in 1965, Scott Calhoun called
13:40
me up said, you got to come over here and listen
13:42
to this album. And it was the birds and the song
13:45
was So you want to be a rock and roll star. So
13:48
we listened to the song and he said, now let's
13:51
learn to harmonize to this. So we started harmonizing,
13:55
then we harmonized to the whole album and then
13:57
just started harmonizing with other albums for
14:00
the next weeks and weeks. Wow. So that kind of
14:04
was... That's how it all started. Wow. Wow. Okay.
14:07
Okay. And as you mentioned, Paul is a drummer.
14:11
Was there always a drums you wanted to play or
14:12
did you think about playing a guitar or piano?
14:16
considered playing anything until this stuff
14:18
started snowballing. We were at the Fieldhouse,
14:22
Columbia Heights Fieldhouse at Canteen on Tuesday
14:25
night. Sure, I remember those. We used to have
14:27
the junior high get -together with the bowling
14:30
alley. The bowling alley downstairs. Steve Ritchie
14:34
came up to me and Scott and said, you got to
14:36
come over to my house. My parents bought me a
14:39
new Fender Mustang guitar and amp. They bought
14:42
my brother a new drum set. So we went over and
14:45
checked it out. I sat down to play the drums
14:48
just because they were sitting there. And that
14:50
was when I discovered I can play the drums. You
14:53
were a metronome. You know how to keep beat.
14:55
Oh, wow. So then we started a band. Got Scott
14:59
Calhoun, me, Steve Ritchie, and we got Rick Jackson
15:02
to play bass. And the name of your band, of course,
15:06
was Fourth Generation. How did you come up with
15:07
that name? Everybody thought about it, and I
15:10
think my mom said. you know since since we got
15:13
grandmas and grandpas still alive and parents
15:16
alive and you're alive people with kids you're
15:19
the fourth generation okay okay that's logical
15:22
it was easy to it was a cool name i like to even
15:25
say that we like to get a name for a band so
15:27
and to have the a parent come up with it in the
15:30
60s really i want to share a story with you paul
15:34
and see if you remember this but back in junior
15:36
high columbia I think I was probably in about
15:39
eighth grade and we had a shop class together.
15:42
I can't remember which one, if it was a wood
15:43
shop with Mr. Gifford or a drafting class, but
15:46
I remember before the bell rang to start class.
15:49
You were sitting at your desk. It was more like
15:51
a table we sat at. There were like four corners.
15:54
And I don't know if somebody asked you or you
15:56
just did it, but you started playing Wipeout
15:58
with your hands. The wipeout song, the surf rock
16:02
song. This guy is great. No wonder you're a drummer.
16:07
I mean, you just came to you naturally, I guess.
16:13
When did you get your first drum set and what
16:15
kind was it? Do you remember? My first drum set
16:18
was Silver Sparkle Slingerland drum set. I bought
16:22
it. B -Sharp Music, which is where everybody
16:25
bought their equipment on Lowery and Central.
16:29
It burned. They had a fire sale up on 40th and
16:32
Central where the furniture barn used to be.
16:34
I remember. I remember. Went and looked at drums.
16:38
Found my Silver Sparkle Slingerland. Got them
16:41
for 140 bucks. They were smoke damaged. So we
16:46
figured out, how do we get the smoke damage off?
16:50
Yeah, how did you? Scott figured out, use Comet,
16:52
then use Pledge, and it looks like new. Wow.
16:55
Wow. I remember going in that. the temporary
16:59
headquarters are in the Heights. And when you
17:01
walk inside, you can smell smoke as you walked
17:03
in there. Everything in there. But it was cool
17:06
because they had all these guitars lined up on
17:08
the wall. And then they had like pennant flags
17:10
of local bands. I remember seeing the TC Atlantic
17:13
Castaways. And I just thought it was so cool.
17:16
And they were there for a few months, weren't
17:17
they? Until they restored or refurbished the
17:20
original store. But I can remember that in Columbia
17:22
Heights back in the, well, we were like eighth
17:24
or ninth grade, I think, when that happened.
17:25
So you got your first set at... actually that
17:29
first set the bass drum head said Humble Pie
17:32
on it with like a weird kind of picture on it
17:36
yeah well we never heard of Humble Pie in 68
17:40
to 67 right so my buddy Stan Slansky said why
17:46
don't you get that name off there I'll do a psychedelic
17:50
mural on there with like neon orange paint so
17:54
we did that And then a few years later, we find
17:57
out about Humble Pipe, like Peter Frampton. One
18:00
night ruined. So that was actually a bass drum
18:03
head from that band. The whole set was from that
18:06
band. They were in town playing, and Lopez offered
18:10
them a drum set, so they created it. Oh my gosh,
18:15
yeah. Well, on the other hand, I'm sure it would
18:16
have been cool to have a valuable collectible,
18:18
I guess, but on the other hand, they were your
18:20
drums and you learned to play them, so. It still
18:23
went to good use. That's amazing. Stan Slansky,
18:27
well, I haven't heard that name in a long time.
18:29
I remember him. He lived with my cousins just
18:32
south 42nd there. Interesting, interesting. Okay,
18:36
and then. How did you learn to play then? Did
18:38
you just start? I just played. Whatever I listened
18:41
to, whatever I could hear. Whatever I could hear,
18:44
it just was natural. Why was it natural? I don't
18:48
know. I just listened to the song and played.
18:51
You know how to keep the beat, the back beat?
18:53
It's cool. I can tell you what the record is
18:55
playing, and I can play it. Did you have headsets,
18:58
or did you just turn your record player up loud?
19:00
Turn the record player up loud. I can remember,
19:03
I had a drum set back in the late 62, but I can
19:06
remember in the basement playing, but whenever
19:08
it got too loud for the folks, the basement light
19:10
would go off and on. They'd go, stop, or I got
19:13
a phone call, or something like that. My mom
19:15
was fine with it. That's good. That's great.
19:17
Well, she helped you develop your drumming skills.
19:20
That's great. That's great. Once you started
19:25
playing drums and set up to be a drummer, was
19:27
there, um, maybe a drummer or some drummers,
19:30
you know, maybe from the Heights area that you
19:32
kind of like to, to watch play and you kind of
19:35
pick up things from them or there's some local
19:36
guys. Russ, Russ Sabinski, that was a drummer
19:39
for the bad almonds also did background singing.
19:43
Oh, so seeing that it's like, wow, I can do that.
19:47
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, Harry Nells from South 40
19:52
Harry Nells. Okay. I liked his drumming style.
19:56
His drumming style is the style I hooked up to.
19:59
Oh, wow He used rim shots on the snare drum all
20:03
the time. I used to my whole life cuz airy Wow
20:06
Wow How about some of the, there were some pretty
20:09
good Heights drummers too, besides yourself.
20:11
You mentioned Bond Link. Bond Link lived two
20:15
minutes from where I am now. Yep. Yep. Yep. On
20:18
Arthur Street. Yeah. And then there was a kid,
20:20
you mentioned another kid that lived on Arthur
20:22
Street. He was a little younger than us, but
20:24
he was a good drummer too. Danny Ray Sabalboro.
20:27
Yeah. Do you have a sister that also played?
20:29
Joy played organ for the only ones. Okay. Okay.
20:33
And their oldest brother, I think, Lee Sabalboro,
20:37
played lead guitar in the Trolls. Wow. Yeah.
20:41
Oh, wow. Wow. So Danny Ray was like 12 and played
20:45
in a band with 17, 18 year olds. Yeah. He was
20:50
good. Great. Yeah. I saw him. Wow. I saw him
20:52
play a couple of times at the Fuel House for
20:54
different dances. He was really good. So no formal
20:57
lessons, you just learn by playing and watching
20:59
others and just incorporating harmonizing and
21:02
singing by ear. And then I want to, I don't want
21:05
to get too technical for our listeners, but I
21:07
remember, correct me if I'm wrong, but you, when
21:09
you played, when you held your drumstick, you
21:11
had a, they called it a match strip, right? Both
21:13
your palms were facing down. They were both the
21:16
same as opposed. And like Ringo was the first
21:18
drummer that I remember playing with the matched,
21:21
uh, in both like that. But then there was the
21:23
other style and There's certainly great drummers,
21:26
too. They call it more the traditional grip.
21:27
You take the stick in your left hand between
21:29
your thumb and your index finger. And I think
21:32
like Charlie Watts was a was a traditional grip.
21:35
And, you know, obviously there were fantastic
21:37
drummers with both styles. But did you just did
21:39
you do that from the start to match grip? Yes.
21:41
It's easier to hold on. Yeah. Yeah. I thought
21:44
so. You can drop your sticks at any given second.
21:46
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. OK. Now,
21:52
once you had your drums. You kind of mentioned
21:54
before with Scott, but once you had your drums,
21:56
how long was it before you actually formed a
21:58
band in the fourth generation? Actually, when
22:01
I bought my drums, we were already playing. When
22:05
we started the band, Steve Richie's brother Ronnie
22:08
had a drum set in the basement. Then when we
22:11
got Rick Jackson in the band, he had just gotten
22:14
a bass guitar and his brother Tommy had just
22:17
gotten a drum set. for Christmas, the same Christmas.
22:21
So when we practiced there, I had Tommy's drum
22:24
set to play. So we'd go back and forth to different
22:27
places for like six months and had drums to play.
22:30
Then the fire sale came up, and then I went and
22:33
bought the drums. Now the fourth generation,
22:36
these were all, at least the original group,
22:38
you're all... Ninth graders at Columbia, right?
22:41
Mention the guys again from the band. You on
22:43
the drums. Me on the drums. Scott Calhoun, lead
22:46
singer. Steve Ritchie on guitar. Rick Jackson
22:49
on bass. Me and Scott. did all the singing. All
22:53
the singing. Okay. Okay. All right. The other
22:54
two guys didn't, said they couldn't sing so fine.
22:58
Yeah. Well, Jimmy Page never sang either. He
23:00
did. Right. That's exactly right. I remember
23:05
when the fourth generation played at the junior
23:07
high talent show at Columbia in 1968. We were
23:09
ninth graders. In fact, you were one of two bands
23:11
that played in that talent show, which I'm quite
23:14
sure had never happened before at Columbia, at
23:15
least not while we were going there. And I thought
23:18
that was just a great time. And you mentioned
23:20
the guys in your band. And didn't you grow too,
23:23
didn't you start adding some guys? Yeah, because
23:27
of the hot half dozen having saxophones and trumpet,
23:31
and then you get the marvelous marauders that
23:34
would hit town and play at KC Hall and other
23:36
places. And the fabulous flippers, they all had
23:41
horns. The band, C .A. Quintet that did Mickey's
23:45
Monkey, they had horns. So because everybody
23:48
had horns, We need a sax in our band, so we got
23:53
our buddy Huey Van Hatt who plays sax. His uncle
23:57
actually was a sax player in the hot half. Oh,
24:00
that's right. Who was that? What's his name again?
24:02
Ron Geslin. Wasn't it like Huey's Dutch Van Hatt,
24:05
but Huey, we called him back then. Didn't he
24:07
have an aunt that was married to Geslin? Wasn't
24:09
that the connection? Or somebody in his family?
24:12
Huey's mom and Geslin's mom, I think. sisters
24:18
or something. Oh, okay. Okay. I thought I thought,
24:21
okay, that's the connection. Somehow, Manhattan
24:23
was connected. Oh, he's connected because he
24:25
talked about that. It's either a cousin or uncle.
24:28
Okay, okay. And didn't Ron Geslin work at that
24:32
record store? He started, he started Fancy Colors.
24:36
Fancy Colors, yeah. And his wife Linda. Yeah.
24:39
Opened Fancy Colors on the in the strip mall,
24:42
the other end of Leon's 49th and Central. Yes.
24:45
He owned that for a few years. Records, jeans,
24:49
paraphernalia. Yes. I remember that store well,
24:53
because I bought many records down there. And
24:55
they were really nice. Geslin was a real down
24:57
-to -earth guy. I can remember he comes in and
24:59
goes, would you like some candy? And he had a
25:01
bowl of candy. OK. Right at the end of the counter.
25:04
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fancy colors. So then after
25:07
a couple years, mid-'60s. He ended up moving
25:11
to L .A. and working for RCA Records as a producer.
25:15
So he sold it to Bob Shagatcutt, which his nickname
25:20
was Chick. Yeah, sure. So we all knew Chick.
25:24
I remember that. Oh, small world. Oh, okay. Fun
25:28
times. So Huey was a sax player. Didn't you have
25:32
trumpet as well? Nope, just, oh, just, okay.
25:34
Okay. All right. And then trying to figure out,
25:36
well, how are we supposed to fit in sax in this
25:39
for, you know, like what songs did you add to
25:41
your all we could do heat wave by hot half dozen
25:44
and a few other songs that I can't think of off
25:48
the bat because it's been well, it's been a while,
25:51
but we'd have to just invent sex parts and some
25:54
of these songs. Sure. And unfortunately, within
25:58
months, My house that I lived in burned. Oh,
26:02
that's very great. The band ended. Oh, that's
26:06
too bad. Well, I want to bring back something
26:09
that was really cool about the fourth generation
26:11
because that same year, it was probably in the
26:16
springtime, I think we were supposed to have
26:18
baseball practice that afternoon, but it rained.
26:21
And we found out, I'm not sure how we found out,
26:23
but your band was in the school's band room.
26:27
Yes. And Mr. Carlson. He let you guys set up
26:31
your equipment and he actually recorded some
26:34
songs that you played sure would like to hear
26:36
that I know I know it was great because In a
26:39
word of mouth really spread because there were
26:40
a lot of kids that just went to watch I was I
26:43
was among maybe 50 or 60 kids that were there
26:46
watching you guys play I remember there were
26:49
a couple songs you did that were really well
26:51
done especially for you know much in ninth grade
26:53
kids. I remember one of the covers was Hey Joe.
26:58
It was it was sort of the still rovin' style.
27:00
It was up tempo as opposed to Jimi Hendrix's
27:04
you know. We hadn't even heard Hendrix yet. Right,
27:07
right, yeah. Still rovin' local band did Hey
27:10
Joe, came out with a record and we did their
27:13
version. They actually produce a single, right?
27:16
Wasn't it? They got radio playing with that version.
27:19
You probably had that 45 to still have nice,
27:23
nice, nice. And then the other song I got a kick
27:26
out of was, um, you did the yardbirds covers
27:28
for your love. Yes. And it was great because,
27:31
you know, Scott had a good voice and he's a really
27:33
good singer. But I remember the cool part about
27:35
it is you guys kind of did an extended version
27:37
of the song, right? And you did your own little
27:39
drum solo. I remember all this nice good kids
27:42
are going on. Wow, you know, that was just a
27:44
blast. Just kind of invented it in a practice
27:47
once, and that was the drum solo song. It sounds
27:50
good. And remember, Mr. Carlson actually played
27:53
it back, and it was just fun to hear, because
27:55
I'm not sure how sophisticated his equipment
27:58
was. It was probably a reel -to -reel. This is
28:00
68. But it still sounded cool. And like you said
28:03
early in the podcast, it'd be so fun if somehow
28:06
that tape had survived and just be able to listen
28:08
to something like that. That would be... And
28:10
reel -to -reels were pretty handy. device. I
28:13
mean, even the band I played in the 70s, we used
28:16
Reel to Reel as our echo unit with our PA system.
28:20
Oh, reel -to -reel is great. Everything we played
28:22
in the mid -70s went on that reel -to -reel and
28:25
we have those today. Oh, you still have those.
28:28
Oh, that's good. That's good. But the fourth
28:30
generation tapes you're not so sure about, right?
28:33
Oh, well, it's fun to pretend that they exist
28:36
somewhere. It's fun looking back at fourth generation
28:40
stuff. And Paul, I wanted you to talk a little
28:45
more about some of the other local bands that
28:46
you played in. You mentioned you were in a band
28:48
that played at the Stonehouse in St. Anthony
28:50
Village. What was the band called? Highway. Just
28:53
Highway? How'd you spell that? H -I -Way. Oh,
28:57
okay. I just invented it driving down the street.
29:00
John Herbachek was our guitar player. Yeah, who
29:03
else was in the band? Other Heights guys? So
29:04
it was, yeah, me, John Herbachek played guitar,
29:08
Rick Brant played guitar, was lead singer. Steve
29:12
strum was a bass player. Okay. Okay, and you
29:15
did that for a while then that I mean you were
29:17
73 to about 77. Okay played in a lot of bands
29:21
East Bethlehem Stonehouse once a month, okay
29:26
weekend. Mm -hmm and then just local halls and
29:30
yeah. Was it mostly cover stuff or just some
29:32
original stuff too or? Rick wrote a few songs
29:35
so we had a few of our own. Yeah now Rick Brant
29:37
was like a year ahead of us right? Yes. I met
29:40
him when we went to that gypsy concert in Medina.
29:43
I didn't really even know him in high school
29:45
but then I met you know when he introduced himself
29:48
that night I go oh okay so yeah he's from class
29:50
of seven. How about Herbachik? I left him with
29:52
that name. When did he, what'd he have gotten
29:54
to? He was a year older than us. Oh, he wasn't
29:56
that same? His brother Steve Herbatschek is a
29:58
year younger than us. Okay, okay. But they were
30:01
all high schoolers. He played with us, got married
30:03
to Wendy Berg. Oh, sure. Wendy's our classmate,
30:07
yeah. Ultimately, Brad Dilley became our lead
30:10
guitar player. Brad, another name from the past.
30:13
Yeah, Brad. He was a fantastic lead guitar player.
30:16
Yes, I remember. Well, he was in The Only Ones,
30:18
right, with Kirschbaum's band? Actually, when
30:20
The Only Ones began in 1965, it was Brand Kirschbaum
30:24
on guitar, Rick Dudziak. He lived across the
30:29
street on Jefferson from Roger Nordine. Yeah.
30:32
He played drums. Oh, wow. Ted Stachel, Satch.
30:36
Yeah. He didn't have an organ, but he had an
30:40
accordion. So we used the accordion for keyboards.
30:45
And then they talked me into buying a bass guitar
30:48
and being the bass guitar player. This was before
30:51
the drumming days. Wow. So I didn't do too well
30:56
at it because you have to know the notes on the
31:01
strings. I just couldn't do it. I could sing,
31:04
but I said, you guys need to get somebody else.
31:07
Oh, wow. They ended up getting Dennis Susick
31:10
as their guitar player. Oh, sure. Remember Dennis
31:12
too? They added Brad Dilley as their guitar player.
31:16
Joyce Sabalboro, who we talked about, was their
31:18
organ player. and brad on guitar yeah oh and
31:23
they did pretty well oh that's so cool hearing
31:25
about that i i didn't realize those names that
31:28
i recognized so wow wow wow and then i remember
31:32
paul when we we finally hooked up about 10 years
31:35
ago i remember you would post some stuff on facebook
31:38
where you do some beetles covers yes um was that
31:42
part of highway or was that No, it was Rick Brant
31:46
that was in Highway. Steve Strum that was in
31:49
Highway. Steve did all the music at his place
31:53
in Cottage Grove. Bass, guitar, keyboards, whatever.
31:59
He'd pick a song, Beatles song, and just record
32:02
the music. Then he'd send it to Rick up by Forest
32:06
Lake, Minnesota. Then they confronted me and
32:09
they said, are you interested in doing the singing
32:11
in some of these songs? So this boy is the first
32:14
song we did. I went over there. Rick has a recording
32:17
studio in his basement. And I recorded all the
32:21
John, Paul, and George parts. Wow. Did all the
32:24
harmonies. Did all the singing. Double track,
32:29
triple track. And made songs. I don't know, about
32:33
eight Beatles songs. Well, they sounded fantastic.
32:36
This was in 2015 to 2018. Yeah, they sounded
32:42
fantastic. They're still available then. Just
32:45
punch in Paul Grove's Beatles. Okay. Oh, that's
32:49
good to know. Because I remember I really enjoyed
32:51
hearing that stuff. And it sounded so good. It's
32:54
a wonder as a technology, even though it's been
32:55
10 years, that you could do stuff like that.
32:58
I mean, back in junior high, you couldn't. This
33:00
is bucket list stuff. Yeah, no, that's fantastic.
33:03
In fact, I'm going over there tomorrow. To do
33:06
two Beatles songs. You are. Yeah. Wow. Well,
33:09
you have to let me let us know what they are.
33:11
So that's great. Okay Okay, let's go back to
33:16
the music scene in the Twin Cities during the
33:18
mid 60s and 70s again And I want to bring it
33:21
even closer to home with home meaning Columbia
33:23
Heights or maybe Greater Northeast if you will
33:25
but some of the name some of the musicians From
33:29
the Heights. I mean we're you've mentioned some
33:31
already that we're really really good musicians.
33:33
Yeah Russ Sabinski, like I said, played drums
33:36
in the Bad Homens. His brother, Denny Sabinski,
33:40
they're actually twins, played guitar, did a
33:42
lot of their singing. I went a lot with, you
33:45
know, by what he did. Jim Walsh, he was in the
33:51
hot half dozen, which we saw practicing in 64
33:55
and 65. three minutes from where we're sitting
33:58
right now. He ended up being in the underbeats
34:03
for a while. Jim Johnson got drafted to go to
34:06
Vietnam. We got Walsh to play organ and sing
34:10
because of his voice. A guy named Wally Walsed
34:13
played guitar. Jim got out of the service two
34:16
years later. Wally was out. They kept Jim. And
34:20
then they ultimately turned into gypsies. And
34:24
Walsh was at that show I went. to do with you
34:28
and Kurt and Amy and Steve Ritchie that night.
34:30
Yeah, yeah. And he passed away a couple years
34:34
ago, right? Last year. Was it just last year?
34:37
Maybe two years. He was great that night, though.
34:39
So between walls. Yeah. Dave Wagner, lead singer,
34:43
Kroll passed a few months ago. And Charles Shane
34:45
of the Delcoms passed away last year. I think
34:49
I saw that too. So we have three of the best
34:50
lead singers out of twin cities, 60s, 70s. Some
34:54
real talent. Some real talent. Died recently.
34:57
Yeah, some real talent there. Yeah. OK, Paul,
35:02
I've got three quick questions I want to ask
35:04
you regarding the music you followed back in
35:06
the day. First question. Which Twin Cities band
35:10
did you like best and or miss the most today?
35:13
If you could like go back in time, which band
35:16
would you want to hear? South 40, the South Gamecrawl.
35:19
I went by everything they did to decide what
35:24
I wanted to play and what to do in music. And
35:29
which local venue? Did you like best and miss
35:32
the most of all the places you went to hear?
35:35
Columbia Heights Field House. It was great because
35:37
it was all our friends from heights, older and
35:40
younger. We had a stage that was elevated. I
35:44
always made it within 20 feet of the stage. and
35:49
just watched everybody play and learned. They
35:52
had a lot of dances there, didn't they? I just
35:54
remember that was a great place to go. Trego
35:56
dances. Yes, yes. And like you said, they had
35:59
that stage kind of in that corner. In the corner.
36:02
And they were up there so you could see them.
36:04
Oh yeah. I saw South 40 play there once. Yeah.
36:07
And the last song they did was I Want Sunshine
36:10
was the song from their album. Sunshine, give
36:14
me a little sunshine. And then when they go to
36:16
end the song, Dave does kind of the screaming
36:19
part at the end of the song, which I can't duplicate
36:22
right now. But when the song ends, he's playing
36:25
maracas. He smacks the maracas together and slams
36:28
them to the floor with beads flying everywhere.
36:31
I thought that was the coolest thing I ever saw
36:34
in my life. oh that's cool that's great um and
36:39
then the third question maybe you've already
36:40
answered this um which was the best twin cities
36:43
band you saw play in the heights whether it was
36:46
at merging hall field house at the junior high
36:48
school or the high school maybe maybe there's
36:50
a second one you can think of castaways Oh, okay.
36:54
I was hoping you'd say that. They played at the
36:55
junior high. Uh huh. We were all amazed. Yes.
36:59
Castaways, Liar Liar and Sam. Yep. Wow. Yep.
37:02
There they are. This was in this is just to give
37:05
us some context. This was in 1968. We were ninth
37:07
graders at Columbia. It was on Saturday night,
37:10
fortunately, because I don't think my mom and
37:11
dad will let me comment if it had been a school
37:13
night. But yeah, they played and what was so
37:17
wild about that was I knew about their song liar
37:20
liar But I had no idea what they look like or
37:22
what they dress like or what kind of songs they
37:24
played They did some covers that were just amazing
37:27
for my young ears. They they did a day in the
37:30
life from the Beatles' Sergeant Pepper's Lonely
37:33
Hearts Club Band album. I didn't even know that
37:35
was possible to play live. And it was just amazing
37:38
how good it sounded. And it was the first time
37:40
I'd been at a venue where they had strobe lights.
37:43
And I remember the sensation. You move your hand
37:47
slowly and it's like, it was like, wow, look
37:49
at this. It was just wild. And at least for me,
37:52
there were no drugs involved, but it was still
37:54
unbelievable, the effect it had. And I just thought
37:57
that was a... One of the coolest things I've
37:59
ever seen. I'm glad you mentioned it, because
38:01
that was my favorite memory. And their drummer,
38:04
Denny Craswell, co -wrote that song with the
38:07
keyboard player, Jim Donah. OK. And he was only
38:10
about 16 at that time. Wow. And played drums
38:14
that well. And then went on to be the drummer
38:17
for Crow. Amazing. And what was his name, Denny?
38:20
Denny Craswell. Maybe I'm getting some shows
38:23
mixed up, but I seem to remember he was playing
38:26
jump and he played him hard I think he actually
38:28
broke a drum head while he was playing that night
38:31
And I remember easy to do yeah He took the head
38:34
off and got it replaced and then I remember a
38:37
girl was with her boyfriend And somehow she got
38:39
a hold of that broken drum head and she was playing
38:42
it against her leg like it was a tambourine So
38:44
the rest of the night she's got this broken tom
38:47
-tom head and she's using that to keep beat to
38:49
the song memory that was. You bet. There were
38:53
a couple, there was one other I was going to
38:55
mention too. I think that the Hot Half Dozen
38:58
played, was that the group that Geslin was in?
39:00
Yes. I remember they played at a field house
39:03
dance. I was probably a sophomore. I remember
39:06
that was cool seeing them play. You bet. Because
39:08
they did their cover of Heatwave. I loved it.
39:10
I always liked that. I used to watch them practice
39:12
in the garage just four minutes from here. Yeah,
39:15
that is so cool. What a band. Wow. And then the
39:18
other one I remember, we were in senior high
39:21
then, I think I was a junior, but Michael's Mystics
39:24
played at a dance in the high school gym. And
39:27
they were fantastic. I remember that drummer,
39:31
I can't remember his name. But I remember when
39:34
he was doing his drum solo, you know, most times
39:36
you're doing solo, you're sitting down. Well,
39:38
he got up from his drums and he actually was
39:40
walking around his drums and was kind of playing
39:42
his cymbals or whatever. And I remember he was
39:44
just going, woo! And he was having a great time.
39:46
Then he sat down and started banging on them
39:48
again. But I just thought, this is so cool. And
39:51
that was the Mystics or the Michael's Mystics.
39:53
Yeah. And they played, I think as a junior that
39:55
year, but that was just so fun. So one of the
39:57
drummers that Michael's Mystics had They had
40:00
about three of them, so I don't know where this
40:03
falls into place. Yep. But one of the last drummers
40:06
they had was Bill Lorden. Bill Lorden, okay.
40:10
He played, he ended up going with Gypsy. Oh.
40:13
In 1971. Yeah. Gypsy had four albums, 70, 71,
40:18
72, 73. Okay. So the last three albums, he was
40:22
the drummer. Oh, okay. So on the fourth album,
40:27
they ran into Sly and the Family Stone, Sly Stone
40:31
confronted him. Wow. Said, we want you to be
40:34
the drummer in our band. Oh my gosh. Wow. So
40:36
he joined Sly Stone. They finished, Gypsy finished
40:40
their album, two of the songs. I don't know which
40:43
one. They won't tell me. With Stanley Kipper
40:47
as the drummer in LA. Okay. And well, Bill was
40:52
playing with Sly. They were at a concert and
40:55
Robin Trower confronted him. Robin Trower. Okay.
40:59
He said, we want you as a drummer in our band.
41:02
Man, in demand. He played with Robin Trower for
41:05
eight years. Wow. Well, he got around. And then
41:08
the bass player in Michael's Mystics was Willie
41:11
Weeks. Okay. When he left the Mystics, in 1970,
41:16
he played on the George Harrison Dark Horse album.
41:19
Oh my gosh. And has played on dozens. of other
41:23
albums by other bands. Wow. Wow. All from Michael's
41:27
Mystics. Wow. Local band. Oh, that is so cool.
41:31
Yes, it is. Well, Paul, this has been a blast.
41:36
It's been fun to get together just to talk to
41:37
you about the music scene from the 60s and 70s.
41:40
My favorite days. Yep. And the influence that
41:43
it's had, that music's had on you and all of
41:46
us boomers, I guess. And like I said at the outset
41:49
to our listeners, I'm not sure anyone from the
41:51
Heights or from the Twin Cities for that matter
41:53
loved or followed the local music scene more
41:55
than you did, Paul. So I'm privileged that you
41:58
were here just to talk about it. So really fun
42:01
to reminisce about that stuff. And again, Paul,
42:03
I want to thank you again for making it possible
42:06
for the Columbia Heights. class of 1971 to have
42:09
its 55 -year class reunion. Even though you're
42:12
now living in Florida, you volunteered to be
42:15
our class reunion ringleader, so to speak. So
42:18
kudos to you and then to everyone who helped
42:20
you that night, Saturday, to get ready. K. Madsen
42:23
and Sue Wiggin at Manhattan actually did all
42:26
the... Minnesota help. Yep. No, that was that
42:29
was wonderful. Like I said, it was a really special
42:30
reunion. I'm glad. My pleasure to do it for all
42:33
of us. Well, it was. We're a family tonight.
42:35
That's right. That's right. That's right. And
42:39
now, Paul, since you are my guest and I'm your
42:41
host, I'm going to give you the last word. If
42:44
you could just tell us how the local Twin Cities
42:46
music scene of the mid 60s and 70s and beyond
42:49
impacted you. And then tell us why you think
42:52
it's important for the generations that followed
42:54
us boomers, the Gen Xers, the Millennials, the
42:58
Gen Zs, to know about and appreciate the people
43:01
who played that great music we grew up listening
43:03
to. Seeing all these bands that we saw, I mean,
43:07
in the mid 60s to late 60s into the 70s, there
43:11
was dozens and dozens of Twin Cities bands and
43:14
they were all as good as each other. And I went
43:17
and saw each and every one of them as often as
43:19
I could. Me and Scott went like every weekend
43:23
for years. And then to see that Twin Cities bands
43:27
that are, you know, we're 13, 14, 15. They're
43:31
17, 18, 19. They're not that much older than
43:34
us. And they can play that good. At that age,
43:37
we should be able to play that good. So it just
43:40
makes you want to strive all the more to be that
43:43
good. So even today, if young kids sing along
43:48
to a song and see that they can sing or they're
43:51
banging on a table playing the drums or playing
43:54
air guitar and buy a guitar and learn to play
43:56
guitar, pursue it, man. You could make it as
43:59
far as you want. Just like the mystics, gypsy,
44:03
all these guys. Yeah. Yeah. Well said, Paul.
44:06
Well said. I'm so glad you made time while you
44:09
were back up here in Minnesota to record this
44:11
podcast episode. I always thought you'd be a
44:13
great guest and I was right, so I really appreciate
44:16
it. And again, to our listeners, thanks for hanging
44:23
out with me, Bob at Home, and my guest, Paul
44:25
Groves. We hope you'll join us for the next episode
44:28
of Hanging Out with Bob wherever you listen to
44:30
your podcasts. And until then, bye. I'm out.