Latest / Harvest After Sunday / The Gospel & The Home: Cultural Matters
Transcript
- Harvest Media: Welcome to the Harvest After Sunday podcast. My name is Stefan Wilson, pastor of preaching and teaching at Harvest Bible Church. And Natalie is not with us today because today we have the privilege of hearing from a dear friend of mine, Brian Arnold, who recently preached and did our men's event. And I thought it would be really great just to get a little bit more time with Brian to be able to talk about what it means to be gospel people in the home. So Brian, I'm super glad that you're here and that you were willing and able to take this time to sit down with me. It's great to be here. And I think what would honestly be great is if you could just kind of talk about yourself a bit where you are about that. Not at all. Where you are, your family and and and kind where your passions are right now, I think would be helpful. Yeah. So I pastor First Baptist Church in Paducah, Kentucky. So about as far west as you can go in the state. My wife's actually an hour west of there. When we first met, I asked where she was from. She had Western Kentucky. said, Paducah. She goes, no, an hour west. I did not even know that existed, but it does. And Paducah is 29,000 people or so. The county, which is kind of how everything goes in Kentucky, is about 65,000 people. And yeah, I've been pastoring there. there for almost three years. In fact, in March, this makes three years since I was called to be their pastor. And it's great. It's a church that was on 20 years of decline in every measurable thing. So Baptist, if people know anything about us is that we fight and our church had no shortage of fights. And the worship wars really did a number on our church. And so every time I like to say that there was never a missed opportunity to fight about worship in our church. And so different services and contemporary versus traditional, all that stuff. And it left the church in a pretty bad spot. And so it's been three years of revitalization, which is a lot of fun. I like that. Basically, the people who were left said this is kind of the last ditch effort and we're committed, we're here. And since that time, the Lord's been very kind to our congregation. Mostly, and I think you'd appreciate this, yes, we're growing numerically. it's the depth. It's people who are maybe for the first time taking their walks with Christ seriously, reading their Bible, some of them for the first time, others actually picking up other books to help them know the Bible. So that's been one of the most exhilarating pieces for me. Projects, passions right now, as part of that we have what I'm calling the discipleship fork, is Sunday morning worship as that's what we do as Christians. If we do that, we do that faithfully, we are a church. But then also Sunday school, we're kind of going back to that. Yeah. ⁓ We had had life groups and that was kind of the small group meets Sunday school kind of thing. So you get neither of each ⁓ if you do that. So I just said, look, we've got gaps that people just they don't know things about the Bible. They've not been catechized well. They even so the literature I'm writing right now starts off with like the old John Wood thing. This is a football. Right. It's this is a Bible and there are 66 books. And what does that look like? And really taking our people from there we're wrapping out a four-year curriculum that'll be Old Testament familiarity, theology, New Testament familiarity, and then applied theology, ethics, worldview, stuff like that. So that's a huge project and that's something I'm excited about right now. know I think, mean honestly I think that's great that you're mindful of that because I think it's really easy for us to assume knowledge because 20-30 years ago you kind of could. ⁓ 40, 50, 60 years ago, you absolutely could, that there was just kind of a shared familiarity and literacy with at least the vocabulary of scripture and church. But, you know, I think it's something that's largely missing now. And so to say, listen, we are actually going to go back to the fundamentals. For some, that might feel beneath you. I promise you it's not. For others, you're very aware that you need it. And so the recognition of, you know, We do need to to lay that groundwork again. think is is wise and will only make the church healthier Well, let's hope right so Martin Luther said the church is like a drunken peasant It falls off one side of the donkey to get a fall for the other side Basically, it's a cooler way to say the pendulum swing and I think what we saw was yeah 40 years ago people had higher Bible literacy But the gospel wasn't penetrating their lives So then in the 90s you get small groups coming up and it's like we actually had to apply these things and getting to each other's lives So we've done that but now we don't have the basic Bible knowledge to do that well. And so it's not either or. So, you for us, it's that Sunday morning worship, Sunday school, small groups and personal discipleship. We feel like we're doing those four things. Then our people will be where they need to be. We changed our mission statement to that we exist to make disciples with hearts aflame who pursue the Great Commission with joyful urgency. So that idea of hearts aflame disciple, what does that look like? Like, how do we actually ignite people's hearts? And then they're going to be faithful in obeying the Great Commission with joyful urgency which hopefully will then create more hearts of flame right so yeah on and on yeah that's great and don't don't let Brian fool you he just referenced Martin Luther and ran through some history for a few decades there he's got a PhD in church history you went to the Southern Baptist the Southern Baptist the other seminar it's like the Ohio State University yeah you have to say these are very important yeah well I think it's wonderful that you are scholar but also a pastor that you are taking the knowledge that you've gained through years of study and applying it in a local congregation which I think is where it belongs. Yeah that's right. And before you were at First Baptist Church, Paducah, you were the president of Phoenix Seminary. That's right. Which is just down the road. Very close. Yeah. Yeah. So you've got some roots here. Yeah we were here eight years. It's hard to believe. So our kids were one and three when we moved here and obviously our families have spent time together and camping together and things like that. And that's where I met you. I mean, I think I was on the ground in 2015. Not very long. Were you were you here or were you out of state in 2015? We were let's see 2015. We were not we were not here yet. You're not here yet. You moved here in 2015. We moved in 2017. OK. And you and I met at a annual meeting for the Evangelical Theological Society Translation. Of theological nerds getting together. That's right. That's where we met. Yeah, and then that started a great friendship. That's right Well, you were here with our men talking about the gospel and the home Yeah, and that was a that was a time that was specifically for men But in this time, I think that it would be really really valuable to expand that And to talk just in general about how the gospel impacts our lives at home in every facet ⁓ of home life. And when you walk in our church, you see on the wall a statement that says we are gospel people because we believe wholeheartedly that the gospel should pervade every part of our lives. And so what would you say it means to be gospel people in the home? Yeah, like you said, if the gospel's what saturates and animates who you are and everything you do, that's going to have an impact on all your relationships and your home is your most valuable relationships, your spouse and your children, right? And then if you make that circle a little bit broader to talk about extended family, it would count there too, but each of those of greater importance on the way out, right? So spouse, think, and then children and parents and in-laws, grandparents, things like that. ⁓ How do we take the transformation of the gospel that we've experienced, right? That the good news of Christ crucified, risen, reigning, today and not see that just as a salvation message but like this is what is controlling my life right and so if it's going to control my life how does it actually impact my marriage how does it actually impact my my children and raising children and you know and you said this extends beyond men now of course you know one of the challenges I think it was really important to have your people was it is ⁓ first and foremost I might want to say for men the men the men have set the tone. The men are going to be the ones that are tasked with creating the culture. Now I know that there's homes where that's not happening. You're pastor. I'm a pastor. One of the most common conversations I have with women in my church is I cannot get my husband to lead spiritually. Totally often. Yeah. Multiple times a year I get a woman in my office saying this to me ⁓ because they know this is how God has rightly ordered things and my husband needs to be taking the lead. Now if he's not I praise God for godly women who want to help, you know, instill the gospel in their homes and in their children. But it's primarily a man thing, right? That we need men who will do this and men often just don't gravitate towards that as much as they ought to. But if they are saturated with the gospel, they will and they'll see that as their primary calling. Right. I say regularly from the pulpit and when I'm with our men, I say, as go the men of the local church, so goes the local church. That's right. That because God by His design has established men to set the tone for their homes and then by extension for our church family we have to we have to embrace that but it isn't just for men that there is there is a role that women play as well by God's design that's right and and the the equality of men and women is very visible in the creation account first page in Genesis 1 and Genesis to there's no question that God made the man and the woman on the same footing but that he gave them unique roles in the family so that together they would advance the mission of God in the world. But I think that as you talked with our men about and I think talking about men and women our world that we live in now does not reflect the vision of Genesis 1 and 2 because Genesis 3 happened and the fall of mankind and sin and the way that that plays itself out in the home and in our relationships to one another. we have kind of two ditches, if you will. mentioned the quote from Martin Luther a few moments ago about falling off one side or the other. We effectively have two sides that we fall into far too often in our culture. And I'd love for you to just talk about what that looks like. What does it look like if we're not gospel people? If we're not men who are embracing the gospel in our homes, if we're not women who are embracing the gospel in our homes, forms does that take? Right before I go there, if we go back to the creation account, is with Genesis three, sin distorts things and Satan's attack has always been the family. What is his first move? It's to divide Adam and Eve. Right. So Adam receives the command. The serpent goes to Eve and you've got immediately Adam saying, who's this woman you gave to me? Right. There's, there's, there's blame shift. There's all kinds of challenges. Very next chapter after we fall into sin. and there's murder. Satan has always been attacking the family and it's a bit unique today. It's a strange even as a historian to talk about anything being unique because it's so seldom the case. But I would say that we are facing an anthropological crisis today which is who are we as people? I mean when you get candidates for the united states supreme court being asked what is a woman these legal scholars and can't identify it Our people are swimming in the waters of that messy soup right now of we don't know what men are. We don't know what women are. We don't know how they're supposed to inhabit a home together and thrive together and see a house flourishing. ⁓ And so now it comes to these places of the ditches, right? If we're not going to follow a biblical example of manhood and womanhood, what are we left with? Well, for men, I think on one side it's toxic masculinity. We hear a lot about this, right? We talk about guys like Andrew Tate or the liver King guy. I mean, these there are these macho guys who really just understand manhood through binge drinking and barking orders and those kinds of things. And people are right in society to say that's a problem. if manhood should not just be machismo stuff. Right. On the other side, we get like male passivity. So one of the things I talk to with the men was just even think about the 90s sitcoms. You have all of these stupid dads. They can barely put together a sentence. I mean, they're always making mistakes, falling apart. And their wives are really the ones that are there to kind of save the day. And these are the guys that just chill on the couch. They get home, they check out. They're happy to just turn on Netflix. They grab a beer. They go to their man den or whatever, whatever they're doing. They've got their hobby. They don't come home from the golf course till seven, whatever it is, whatever it's going to take for me to not have have to engage or intervene. That's where a lot of the men are too. those are kind of the two ditches I think men are prone towards. Women, we would see that kind of similarly and opposite, right? ⁓ So for toxic masculinity, we might see ⁓ really the detrimental effects of feminism on this culture ⁓ where women have that. impulse today to say, I don't need a man. Life is better without men. I'm the one that needs to do all these things in the home. And they really kind of take charge in that way. And then the other side and what they're afraid of what they're responding to often is ⁓ kind of that doormat. wife approach, right? Where, look, you just sit there, you don't say anything, you have no decision making, and they just, kind of are a wallflower. They kind of disappear and fade into the background. Well, that's not biblical womanhood, right? Right. So in both of these, culture is shaping the narrative, but the Bible has a totally different picture of how men and women relate. Right. And I mean, to your point, the fact that culture so often shapes the way that we think, because we're breathing the air, we're drinking the water, we're living in the cold, if we if we're not paying attention if we don't realize it we'll pick up the categories we'll pick up the vocabulary we'll pick up the practices and the values and the beliefs that that are driving all of those things that are foreign to scripture then if we're not careful we will struggle just as much to be able to say what a man is and what a woman is and Scripture has a vision of flourishing for God's people like it's very clear But if you don't know what something is then you don't know that's right how it can flourish I was I was reading a book earlier where the the author was just talking about What my what a tree needs in my backyard to flourish is not the same thing that my dog needs. I'm going to dig a hole, I'm going to plant the tree, I'm going to cover it with soil, and I'm going to soak it with water for that tree to be able to flourish. If I do the same thing with my dog, it is not going to flourish. No, if you plant your dog in the ground, that's kind of the end of it. But the reality behind that, that I think is very, very appropriately timed, is if we start treating men and women as if they are like anything else in reality, reality, or we choose how we're going to define it, and it's not informed by scripture, there is no way that they will be able to thrive. There is no way that flourishing, especially a biblical vision for flourishing, is going to at all be possible. The only way that true human flourishing can happen is if it happens according to God's design. So then, if those are our ditches, what does it look like then to be men who are saturated in the gospel and women who are saturated in the gospel, particularly in how it plays out in the home. Yeah, it's interesting. I was on the way here today. ⁓ two-hour drive to the airport that is the the downfall of living in a place like Paducah Kentucky. Instead of ten minutes from the airport it's two hours. I was listening to a lecture I can't remember if his name is Matthew Wilcox, anyway his point is to say that if we want to know what humanity is in its truest form we look to Jesus and he uses what's called the Chalcedonian definition and you and I know this, this is a 451 AD as the church is trying to figure out who Jesus is. They're really defining him in terms of what the heretics have said. So wait, they said this? No, no, no, it's not quite that, it's this. And they get this really tight paragraph. And so his whole premise is we need to look to Jesus as the true man. So God did us a great favor by sending his son into this world, not just to redeem us, but to show us what the true man is. Right. Because that was lost in Adam, ⁓ even as we just said. And so so so what does that look like for men? You know, Paul, where I went with your guys was first, Timothy four. And it's an interesting kind of place to go. As I was trying to think through, man, what's going to really help these guys? Because there's a lot of advice you can just give today on being men. We were talking before this about ⁓ a certain preacher who has kind of stopped preaching the Bible and only taught talks about being a man and man stuff. And it's silly to me on a number of accounts, but most significantly, we need men who know who Jesus is, who know the word. That's gonna be how we're transformed. We are transformed into the image of Christ. We are being transformed from one degree of glory to the next. As that happens, we are becoming more and more like the biblical model of who Jesus is. So Paul's talking to Timothy, 1 Timothy 4, and he's really giving instructions for the church, but he's also, I think, laying out, look, if this is what a good pastor should look like, not all your men are going to be pastors, but my goodness, we should be men who are servant leaders, right? As he tells Timothy, we need to be men who are nourished in the Word. And he doesn't just say nourished in the Word. One of the best parts to go after on that is and sound doctrine. Right? A lot of guys might know the Bible. We talking about Bible literacy before. They might have decent Bible literacy, but fewer still have really shaped theology. And if we want to know how to be like God, we have to be men who know what the Bible says and how doctrine comes about. And that can also go the other way too. I mean, I remember when I was a young man being infatuated with doctrine. Yes. And being the doctrine police and nuancing everything. Well, that's not quite right. And yeah, but I didn't actually know my Bible nearly as well as the doctrines that I was espousing. That's right. We all were kind of guys like you and me all had our annoying phase. Right. But I'll say this. I'll take that guy because he'll mature out of that. Yeah. But so many men are just like ah, it's too lofty for me or that's just what the pastor does and they don't see that that actually has a vacation for your home So so let me give you because you asked how it looks in the home my son's probably eight years old his name is Jameson and he's we're putting him to bed and He he says to me dad If God was all that ever existed at one point in time, God is all that existed. How did evil even come into existence? Yeah, he's like eight years old. Yeah. G.C. Berkhour said that's the theological question. That's the hardest one to ask of where that even comes from. Well, come on, Dad. Yeah. Your eight year old's asking, what are you going to say? Yeah. What you going to tell him? Right. How are you going to model that for him? Living lives that are worthy of imitation. lost this to ⁓ I find in our day and age people just like, ⁓ don't look at me. I'm just a mess. You know, don't don't look at me. And Paul actually says often, no, follow my examples. I follow the example of Christ. If we're going to have godly men, then the model is you should be following somebody who's godly and they are following Christ. And for you to be able to say as quickly as possible, follow me as I follow Christ. Right. And and what I mean, what ⁓ what ⁓ a spotlight to have shine on you as a father, as a husband, to ask the question, would I in my current state and my priorities and the decisions I'm making, would I be quick to tell my family you should imitate me? Or would I pause because I wouldn't actually want my son to imitate me? And if I am saturated, in the gospel if I am saying no I while I'm not perfect I certainly desire to be conformed to the image of Christ and so I'm gonna pursue being conformed to the image of Christ and in that pursuit in my personal life I will then look at my family and say imitate me as I pursue Christ Don't imitate me when I'm not pursuing Christ. But then because you're going to imitate me, I need to pursue Christ. That's right. And I'm even here sitting here thinking, ⁓ man, that's tough. Yeah. Right. I've got a 14 year old son who does, I think, look up to me. And is my life always conformed to Godliness? No. Are there times that I think, man, the heart has strayed from the Lord. Right. Or whatever. But I think part of that So just maybe an encouragement to those watching or listening is Repentance that's right. Like that's got to be part of the modeling. We're not gonna get it, right? We're gonna mess up. We're gonna make mistakes We're gonna fall into sin. We're gonna do those things Can my kids and my wife see me as a man who repents? Yeah, what does that process look like? Yeah, I with with Jeannie and with my kids I remember very early on just thinking if my kids remember nothing else about me I want them to remember that I said, I'm sorry, please forgive me. Yeah. Both of those. Yes. I'm sorry. Please forgive me because I, I at least want them to know that repentance and forgiveness are real and they're things that we all need and we serve a God who graciously and generously gives it. ⁓ and so yes, repentance is, is absolutely a part of that. And then just the in that imitatable life, right? ⁓ And then even just thinking ⁓ towards, ⁓ train your self-forgottenness, right? So Paul says, physical fitness, ⁓ It's fine, right? But train yourself for godliness. And we do not often approach our godliness with the same intensity that people pursue physical fitness. And I can say it in Phoenix. Look, it was funny. I go from Phoenix being the obese one to Kentucky being pretty trim. It's pretty nice. So if you're looking for ways to just look better around other people, you might just need to move. Phoenix is highly conscious of that. I actually have been cross-fitting in the last couple months and it's intense. I mean, they try to kill you, I think, every time you're there. And it's a good reminder to me of if I want my body to transform, it's going to come to cost. Yes. If I want my Godliness to transform, it's going to come into cost. I think we think it's going to be easy. Right. Or the warfare is not going to be there. And it is. And that's why we had to train ourselves for it. So what does gospel manhood look like? Men who are in pursuit of that transformation. Right. We we we are products of the second law of thermodynamics. We will move towards entropy. Like if you are if you're never just sitting still, you're declining then. Right. Or you're chiseling and you are being molded and crafted and you're pursuing godliness. And then finally, you know, Paul talks about watch your life and your doctrine closely. So that that is kind of I think a summation piece of that whole passage. And what I want to say to a lot of then is those are the two wings. Your life, who you are, character. and your doctrine, what you believe brings all those pieces he said just into sharp relief of this is where we're going to fall. This is where we're going to make mistakes. And it's just the total of all who we are. I mean, if you could think of your life as a believer, it is all about my life and my heart and my integrity before the Lord and what I know to be true about him. Because how are we gospel men if we don't know the doctrines of the gospel? Right. And how are we gospel men if we're not living them out? Right. So that's kind how I would bring those in together. Yeah, I think I think that's really helpful. And for for any men who are listening, the the reality is that we are called to be gospel men. And while it feels impossible at times with God, all things are possible. Yeah. And because we're men who are redeemed by the gospel, we're also men who will be transformed by the gospel. So Even if there are things in our past or our present that we know don't line up with the gospel God is faithful to transform us if if we will say Lord help me to have my life and my doctrine reflect you until the day that I see you face to face. Now, how then can we think about this on the other side of the coin? So we've talked about gospel manhood. What about gospel womanhood? What are some ways that are helpful to think about womanhood in the home, in the family, in the church family that help us as gospel people to thrive? Yeah, I think a lot of it's the same, right? A lot of it. watching her life and her doctrine closely is going to be a big piece of that. To recognize you have a responsibility before the Lord for your life. You have a responsibility before the Lord for your doctrine and what you know. But still, I don't think in the doctrine piece in the same way, right, that a husband will be held accountable in the home for kind of that that gospel shape. when I think about women in the home and the role that they play, go on historically, I think about Monica, who is Augustine's mom. Right, so his dad's Patrick not a believer least through a lot of his life But Monica is and watches this hellion just go in every direction that you do not want your teenage and young young son to go. Yeah. But she prays for him and she pursues him with the gospel and with truth. I every time I hear mothers kind of in despair for where their children are, I always think about Monica and you cannot ever underestimate the power of a praying mother. And so, you know, women who just have that kind of spirit, ⁓ who who labor for their their families. this is and I don't think this is traditional roles. I mean this is Titus II, right? Older women teaching younger women to work in the home. Doesn't mean women cannot have jobs outside the home. My wife does. Your wife does. ⁓ It's not saying that, but I think there's something about the home that the wife is particularly called to nurture in. So as husbands, as we are thinking kind of bigger picture a lot of times, and we are... maybe even more career oriented and focused as we're providing and protecting, right? These are kind of common categories we'll give for, for manhood that women are doing more than nurturing role at home and they're going to just be with those kids a ton. So how do you, how do you serve your husband and your children? Well, like I, if I was doing a women's event, how audacious of me, but really we have the Bible though. I mean, like at the end of the day, Paul does, Paul's not married, has no kids. gives lots of advice on what it means to be a man and a woman and a child, right? ⁓ And so telling women there in Titus too what that looks like to love your husbands and to love your children and to be about the home and ⁓ I would focus more that way. Well, when we think about about men and women and the home, the way that I often frame it, especially when I'm when I'm talking to to younger men and women who are looking ahead to getting married some day and starting a family, I truly believe that the best time to start cultivating a home that that exudes the gospel is before you're married. Absolutely. To be to seek to become the kind of man or the kind of woman whose home displays the gospel. ⁓ There's no better time than the present to try and pursue in that if you're 14 years old watching this or listening to this Which you probably are but if you are it starts then yeah It starts as a teenager like what kind of man am I gonna be what kind of woman am I gonna be? What what have I seen work in my home? What doesn't work in my home for those of you come from homes where it's just destruction? That's not the end the gospel has a better story I mean part of being a gospel shaped people is that the gospel has a better better story than that like It does not have to be your future just because you come from abuse and addiction and those types of things does not mean that's what your house has to look like and I would also just say if you come from a great model of that it doesn't mean your spouse will have right right I mean that's that that's a challenge for me and my wife at times right is we came from homes with with different kinds of marriages and That plays in and there's no there's no easy road just because your your home was was nice and and ⁓ the gospel was prioritized, it doesn't just happen. Right? Yeah. So young people, man, they got to, they don't want to learn the hard way. They don't want to get halfway through this thing and figure it out. Right. They want to get on it. And in thinking about those two roles in the home, if we're going to keep coming back to this idea of flourishing and thriving based on what we are, a lot of times the way that I'll explain it is, That the man is mindful of what is outside of the home that could get in. The woman is mindful of what's inside the home that needs to get out so that we can flourish. The man... provides ⁓ a safe environment where those things can't get in so that life can flourish and the woman cultivates that environment in the home so that life can flourish. both are protecting but from different things. Both are cultivating but in different ways and we need both. We need both and when the man and the woman are functioning together as one flesh for the cultivation of a gospel home, then what will thrive, what will flourish in the home is the gospel. What about as we finish up, what about for those who maybe long for a family, they never thought they'd be single this long? ⁓ they are starting to wonder if they're ever gonna have a home to cultivate. And then another piece, those who look back and say, I wish I would have known then what I know now and my home would have looked very different. What would you say to those two groups of people? Yeah, compassion on both. You know, first ⁓ for the for the person who's longing to get married and it just the Lord has not brought somebody yet. I don't see a promise in scripture that says that he will do that. Yeah, he's not obligated to that. I think there's desires there and it seems like he typically meets desires. mean, it's because it's a good desire. It's a godly desire. But I would just say serve the kingdom as ferociously as you can from the station. that God has you and wait on him. I how much of the Bible is just waiting on the Lord? mean how many barren women who just had to keep waiting on the Lord? Well in this case, singleness for men and for women just waiting on the Lord and recognizing that in his timing it'll be best and if he does not bring that... you have an opportunity to serve the kingdom in a way that other people will not. This is Paul says. He says it's better not to marry, right? So that you can have a single mindedness. So what I would want to just say is, don't let yourself and your heart settle too deep into despair. I fear that some of them will look back when God does provide a spouse and just say, those were wasted years. Man, I could have really been impacting, you know, I'm a 25 year old woman who really ⁓ wants to be married and God does not provide that and at 35 he does but that 10 years when you could have been dumping into younger girls, you know in a way that young married moms with with young kids can't right I just I feel that they'll regret that so so don't get don't get in despair Trust in the Lord's sovereignty be a gospel centered person right and and serve And wait and and yes continue to pray for that and and happy people pray for that for you. On the other side, the people who have kids out of the house, ⁓ I have a vantage point to see this in my church right now because we've got several folks who've come to faith later and they do look back. And I had one this week in my office talking to me about this of, man, really want to... ⁓ to instill as my kids, they didn't grow up hearing about Jesus in our home. They did not grow up going to church. Now they're in their 20s. And when my sons come home, every time I say the name Jesus, it's like they they look for the exit. And that's heartbreaking. That's hard. So I think there's different levels of this one. Praise God that he by his grace has saved you in your 50s. And and now be the Monica, be the praying, be the praying mom. Right. Doesn't matter if kids are 20. The Lord can still move their lives. ⁓ I just think a lot of us are gonna look back at the regret. I already look back with regret. I mean, my kids are 14 and 12. And already when I think back when they're, you seven and five and people are like, oh, it's gonna go so fast. And you miss some of those things or, you know, I'll be honest, the times that family devotions for me have been on and off. And that has not always been the easiest thing in the Arnold house. So I have some of those regrets even looking back just. If we are going to situate everything on the gospel, I think what I would say to that person in particular is don't forget the gospel now. Yeah. Right. Like you carrying those burdens and those regrets, that's not what the Lord wants. Right. Like those things have got to come under the grace of the gospel as well. Yeah. And you've got to you've got to leave room for for the grace of the gospel in your life. That makes sense. Yeah. And this is where I think the biblical category of lament is so helpful. because it is right and good to see things that are not the way they should be or were not the way that they should have been and lament them and say, Lord, that was not right. I wish that were different. It's not. But biblical lament doesn't terminate at despair. Yeah. biblical lament looks toward hope. That's right. To say, but Lord, you have, you have a greater plan than I could ever imagine. You are bringing about a greater end that then I could ever conceive of. And I know that's true because your word says it's true. So those things are not the way that I would like them to be now. I know that a day is coming when things are exactly how you intend them to be. and that will be the very best thing for me. And so I will wait and I will hope I won't despair. That's right. That's right. And if you're a grandparent. There's a bit of a 2.0. Yeah. Opportunity. I mean, how many people look back and they talk with fondness of it was my grandmother who taught me the gospel. It my grandfather who taught me the gospel. So you're the side of the grave. Get busy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed this time with you. It's always good when we get together. And I know for a fact that our people are going to really enjoy listening, benefiting from your teaching and your presence with us. So I just want you to know I'm grateful. for you and I'm grateful for this time likewise thanks for inviting me out yeah it's okay Thank you for joining us for the Harvest After Sunday podcast, where we help you grow into the image of Christ by applying the truths of his word for his mission. We'll see you Sunday.