Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Why Perimenopause Fat Loss Feels Harder After 40 (Brooke Davis) | Ep 323

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Why Perimenopause Fat Loss Feels Harder After 40 (Brooke Davis) | Ep 323 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: If you're a woman over 40 who's been doing all the right things but can't seem to lose stubborn fat around your midsection, you're not alone and you're not crazy.
• 0:10
  Philip Pape: The strategies at work in your 30s suddenly seem useless and no matter how much you cut calories or increase cardio, the scale refuses to budge.
• 0:20
  Philip Pape: What's worse, your doctor might have told you this is just what happens after 40, without offering any real solutions.
• 0:26
  Philip Pape: Today, I invited on a women's health expert to reveal why perimenopause creates the perfect hormonal storm for fat gain, why eat less, move more actually backfires during this life stage, and the specific nutrition and lifestyle adjustments that can help you reclaim your metabolism without sacrificing your sanity.
• 0:45
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency.
• 0:57
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today I'm bringing you a collaboration with Brooke Davis, founder of Elysian Women's Wellness and host of the Fitness Simplified podcast.
• 1:08
  Philip Pape: Make sure to follow her podcast, because we're dropping two episodes simultaneously for different parts of the conversation.
• 1:15
  Philip Pape: Today on this podcast, we're talking about a very hot topic fat loss during perimenopause.
• 1:21
  Philip Pape: What is really going on with your hormones, your metabolism, body composition during this transition?
• 1:26
  Philip Pape: How to shift what you do your nutrition, your lifestyle, without quick fixes, without detoxes, cutting carbs, any of the other nonsense you might hear all over the internet today.
• 1:36
  Philip Pape: Brooke has spent over a decade helping hundreds of women navigate midlife fitness.
• 1:42
  Philip Pape: She's a certified nutrition coach, personal trainer, women's health specialist.
• 1:50
  Philip Pape: She's done it all.
• 1:51
  Philip Pape: She's developed protocols that address the specific hormonal shifts of peri and post-menopause to help women transform their bodies when other methods have stopped working.
• 1:56
  Philip Pape: So today you are going to learn why the usual fat loss advice won't cut it for women over 40.
• 2:02
  Philip Pape: The true non-negotiables during this phase and the best nutrition and lifestyle behaviors to support your hormones.
• 2:09
  Philip Pape: Last thing, before we get into it, if you want to hear the other side of this conversation, make sure to follow the Fitness Simplified podcast.
• 2:15
  Philip Pape: Brooke is interviewing me on the muscle and metabolism side of this during fat loss for perimenopause.
• 2:22
  Philip Pape: It's all.
• 2:22
  Philip Pape: There's a lot of overlap anyway, isn't there?
• 2:24
  Philip Pape: And that dropped the same day as this episode.
• 2:26
  Philip Pape: So Fitness Simplified Podcast or click the link in the show notes.
• 2:29
  Philip Pape: Brooke, enough of me talking, welcome to the show.
• 2:31
  Brooke Davis: Hello, hello, thank you for having me.
• 2:34
  Brooke Davis: I'm super excited to chat today.
• 2:42
  Philip Pape: So let's get right into the topic, which is why the heck is it so hard for women as they get older, whether it's because of hormones or something else?
• 2:45
  Philip Pape: You tell us to lose fat, or perhaps you gain body fat.
• 2:49
  Philip Pape: What is going on?
• 2:51
  Brooke Davis: There are so, so, so many factors, you know, and, as you mentioned, uh, hormones.
• 2:57
  Brooke Davis: That is one of the biggest things that is changing right.
• 3:01
  Brooke Davis: Uh, literally women's internal chemistry, that is changing right, literally women's internal chemistry, their physiology, is shifting majorly.
• 3:08
  Brooke Davis: Hormones that you know have kept us steady throughout our entire life are at a major decline, along with fluctuations throughout this time, and you know, a lot of women are like oh I just, you know, need to have more willpower, my metabolism is failing, things like that.
• 3:24
  Brooke Davis: But you know, the reality is that a lot of times, it's nothing that they're doing wrong per se.
• 3:30
  Brooke Davis: It's just that the things that they need to do now, versus when they were 20, do have to be different, because they themselves are different.
• 3:40
  Brooke Davis: They're like I said, their whole physiology is actually shifting in a pretty big way, and so those strategies that used to work don't really work anymore.
• 3:49
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, long story short.
• 3:57
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, no, no, great, Please.
• 3:57
  Philip Pape: It's good to get into these and I'm always champing at the bit with follow-up questions, because you said some really neat things there.
• 4:00
  Philip Pape: One thing you mentioned and I want to pull the thread is things have changed.
• 4:04
  Philip Pape: Your physiology has changed.
• 4:05
  Philip Pape: The thing you did in your 20s isn't working.
• 4:08
  Philip Pape: But let me ask you this honestly how many people are doing even the right things in their 20s?
• 4:12
  Philip Pape: Because I want to set the stage and how are they getting away with not doing the right things?
• 4:16
  Philip Pape: Let's be honest.
• 4:18
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, so, like you mentioned, most people in their 20s when you put it like that, they're not doing the optimal things.
• 4:25
  Brooke Davis: Right, they might do things that produce results in terms of fat loss, but they're not necessarily doing the things that are going to bring them optimal health.
• 4:32
  Brooke Davis: And you know this is why, like you said, there's a lot of overlap, because the reality of it is that the things that bring you optimal health in your 20s will bring you fat loss and optimal health in your 40s, but most people in their 20s don't care about optimal health, they don't care about the rate at which they get the fat loss results that they're looking for, and so what tends to happen is they're taking really extreme, really ultimately stressful measures you know, stressful on their bodies to reach the goals that they want.
• 5:01
  Brooke Davis: You know they're exercising way too much.
• 5:04
  Brooke Davis: You know they're usually it's high intensity, which there's nothing wrong with that.
• 5:08
  Brooke Davis: That's great when that's all you're doing, and a lot of it.
• 5:11
  Brooke Davis: They're under nourishing or under eating in general, and you know they're really not, like I said, focused on nutrients, not focused on nourishing their body.
• 5:20
  Brooke Davis: Everything they do is really extreme.
• 5:22
  Brooke Davis: So that is, I mean, the biggest kind of shift that needs to occur is that your body doesn't now, in your 40s, even honestly 30s, like I'm 34, I'm going to be 35 next year, so you know your body doesn't have the resilience for it anymore.
• 5:39
  Brooke Davis: And one of the things I'm a functional diagnostic nutritionist and one of our like kind of coin terms is vital reserve.
• 5:45
  Brooke Davis: And when you're 20, right, you have that vital reserve.
• 5:49
  Brooke Davis: Well, some people do, some people don't, right.
• 5:51
  Brooke Davis: But when you're 40, and you've been doing those things for, you know, 20 years, maybe stressing your body out, undernourishing, right, burning the candle at both ends, not getting enough sleep your body doesn't have the vital reserve to continue to function well, or well enough that you don't notice it in your 40s.
• 6:13
  Philip Pape: Yeah, there are some nuances there that I think are lost on some people.
• 6:17
  Philip Pape: Because I wanted to ask it that way, because I can think of my 20s like I got away with a lot of things.
• 6:23
  Philip Pape: Now I wasn't into fitness, I was definitely doing lots of weird diets, going back to Slim Fast and Atkins and all that stuff.
• 6:29
  Philip Pape: That's how old I am.
• 6:30
  Philip Pape: I'm in my 40s, so about 10 year difference.
• 6:32
  Philip Pape: But it's like the thought that in your 20s the things you can do, your body just can mitigate them significantly, Like you suggested.
• 6:41
  Philip Pape: That's more resilient, the vital reserve.
• 6:43
  Philip Pape: It's like you can get away with it and you learn these bad habits, Like you just end up learning or thinking that this works and that's the best way to do it.
• 6:50
  Philip Pape: Uh, overexercising, like you said, under nourishing, which is a great substitute word for under eating, because then it implies it's not just about food in general or energy in general, it's nutrients, it's vitality, it's support of your body.
• 7:04
  Philip Pape: And then what about?
• 7:05
  Philip Pape: Let's get into the physiological changes?
• 7:08
  Philip Pape: It sounds like there's a double whammy going on of accumulation you mentioned accumulated stress, for example of just bad habits, so that starts in your twenties and then the physiology changes on top of that.
• 7:20
  Philip Pape: So maybe we focus on that piece of it.
• 7:23
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, so I mean hormonally speaking.
• 7:24
  Brooke Davis: Right, we'll start in physiologically and perimenopause, the first thing to go is estrogen and progesterone, which are, you know, our two main sex reproductive hormones, and so with that, progesterone is usually at a pretty steady decline, and that is what tends to kind of cause issues initially.
• 7:46
  Brooke Davis: And then what happens is the estrogen is doing this like along the way, so it's drastically increasing and tanking, increasing tanking, which is putting you into, you know, estrogen dominance, not zero estrogen dominance, and that is what causes a ton of the symptoms that women probably have the most complaints about, which is like weight loss resistance, the accumulation of fat around the belly, the hot flashes, night sweats, things like that are.
• 8:16
  Brooke Davis: Those are, those are the most common complaints, and that is caused by those massive fluctuations in estrogen.
• 8:22
  Brooke Davis: So it's not just about that these hormones are declining, it's that they're erratic and that in and of itself is really stressful on the body, as one can imagine.
• 8:33
  Brooke Davis: And then, on top of that, those fluctuations, quite literally, you have estrogen receptors throughout your entire body, from your brain, your joints, your muscles, and so every system in the body is then impacted by that.
• 8:47
  Brooke Davis: And then going into cortisol, your cortisol is, you know, you're against sensitivity to these things.
• 8:54
  Brooke Davis: Uh is really elevated, and so cortisol then is impacted.
• 8:58
  Brooke Davis: Uh, so your adrenal glands and your adrenal glands what a lot of people don't know are like your secondary sex hormone producers, so they're basically all you have left after your ovaries are done, which I think if people knew that, they would pay more attention to stress management, like going into this, because that is a major, major factor.
• 9:17
  Brooke Davis: And so those are, I mean, some of the main like impacted uh hormone systems and that go on during perimenopause.
• 9:27
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that's.
• 9:27
  Philip Pape: That's really well described, because sometimes it gets oversimplified with like well, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone they all drop.
• 9:34
  Philip Pape: Like okay, is it?
• 9:35
  Philip Pape: It's more than that.
• 9:35
  Philip Pape: What you talked about the estrogen erraticness, the scarcity versus the dominance and it's relative to the other hormones too is what you implied, plus the fact that your body's sensitive to estrogen.
• 9:48
  Philip Pape: You know it's funny because I believe men are as well.
• 9:50
  Philip Pape: But right, we don't have that variance.
• 9:52
  Philip Pape: So we can't get what's going on with the ladies in this time of their life.
• 9:57
  Philip Pape: And then, of course, the downstream of cortisol, which cortisol is a boogeyman for lots of things.
• 10:01
  Philip Pape: But what you're suggesting it's like downstream, it's an indicator of what is going on your HP axis, your adrenal glands, so it's all tied together and I like that you brought up symptoms as well, because I think that's a good source of biofeedback.
• 10:13
  Philip Pape: And listening to your body of like okay, you've got the hot flashes, you're building excess belly fat, you're not able to lose weight, something's telling you and hope is not all lost, right, like it's not the end of the road.
• 10:25
  Philip Pape: So, before we get into the like, what to do and more details, what about testosterone and DHEA?
• 10:30
  Philip Pape: Where are they coming to the picture?
• 10:32
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, um, so testosterone is also declining, unfortunately.
• 10:45
  Brooke Davis: That's a.
• 10:45
  Brooke Davis: That's a big one.
• 10:46
  Brooke Davis: Dhea, right, that's kind of like uh, your again your backup, right, it's made in the adrenals and so that, um, the supporting your adrenal health and making sure that stress management is a really big part of really like as much of life as you can make it, from as early as you can make, it is really powerful, like I just funny backstory.
• 10:58
  Brooke Davis: So my grandma, she's 91 this year and she's been taking this supplement for like a really long time.
• 11:06
  Brooke Davis: It's called unforgettable, so it's like a brain health supplement.
• 11:09
  Brooke Davis: But I looked at it, I was looking at the ingredients and there's phosphatidylserine in it and that is a like cortisol, regular decreases cortisol in the body and I'm like and she was talking about how like menopause like really wasn't a thing for like it wasn't an issue.
• 11:23
  Brooke Davis: She's always just been like cruising a lot and she like she still has horses, she lives almost on her own, like she's very independent, and I was like I wonder if that's like your secret weapon, right?
• 11:33
  Brooke Davis: here, this you know cortisol management, grandma, like that's.
• 11:36
  Brooke Davis: You know how powerful that is and not that obviously that's.
• 11:39
  Philip Pape: It's not a causation, or you know to end the podcast right there and say call it action, go get your.
• 11:45
  Philip Pape: Here's your affiliate link, by the way.
• 11:46
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 11:48
  Brooke Davis: No, I don't, I don't sell that product but um, but no, it was just really cool Cause I'm like interesting Um so so so wait, is it?
• 11:56
  Philip Pape: is it acting?
• 11:56
  Philip Pape: Is it acting like a nootropic or adaptogen kind of like Ashwagandha?
• 12:06
  Brooke Davis: Um, um, no, foster, no, it's just, uh, it just helps manage, uh, cortisol and, like I said, it just makes it less impactful on the body, right, and so it actually lowers your cortisol in general.
• 12:12
  Brooke Davis: But, um, so it's not actually indicated for everybody, like if you already have, you know, whatever adrenal quote-unquote, adrenal fatigue is that like, it may not be for everybody, so don't don't go run out and get your phosphat.
• 12:23
  Brooke Davis: Um, but it was just like, it just was funny that you know that's like a big thing and my grandma and my day and you've one-year-old grandma is like crushing it over here.
• 12:31
  Brooke Davis: So um but yeah so.
• 12:34
  Brooke Davis: So, dj, like I said, in the adrenals, the adrenal glands are really, really powerful and they are your backup engine basically to hormone production and, um you know, less symptoms through perimenopause.
• 12:46
  Brooke Davis: Uh, there have been studies to where, um, you know, women whose nervous system was more regulated, right, they were more in that parasympathetic state.
• 12:54
  Brooke Davis: They experienced less to no hot flashes.
• 12:57
  Brooke Davis: Um, throughout, you know, despite estrogen levels equaling and being the same as other women right At the time of testing, cause it's all erratic.
• 13:04
  Brooke Davis: But despite similar estrogen levels equaling and being the same as other women right At the time of testing, cause, it's all erratic.
• 13:06
  Brooke Davis: But despite similar estrogen levels at the time of testing, women who, uh, you know, said that they were in you know more of a person, but they said they had a better HRB, that kind of thing.
• 13:17
  Brooke Davis: They actually had less, uh, like Bixomotor motor symptoms than the other groups.
• 13:23
  Brooke Davis: So it's really, really powerful.
• 13:28
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it always.
• 13:28
  Philip Pape: All roads seem to lead to stress, no matter who I talk to, having been in this business myself, and there's a lot of angles to it.
• 13:33
  Philip Pape: Right, there's a lot of ways to attack the ultimate getting into that nervous system state you want to be in.
• 13:38
  Philip Pape: Do you watch TV, like, have you seen the new White Lotus?
• 13:40
  Philip Pape: Do you watch that show at all?
• 13:41
  Philip Pape: Okay, so in the latest season, um, they go to this meditation center and there's like a monk, basically I don't know if it's Tibetan, but this is in Thailand, I think.
• 13:50
  Philip Pape: And it made me think like if we were just out of civilization in general and back to, like hunter gatherers, just living the life, the stress would be so much lower.
• 14:00
  Philip Pape: Right, like that's the root of all our problems.
• 14:02
  Philip Pape: Anyway, I think that's not like let's just get rid of it, all, right, but you mentioned so cortisol, and then there's insulin, right.
• 14:11
  Philip Pape: So there's a connection there.
• 14:12
  Philip Pape: I don't know if you had mentioned it yet, but maybe we get into that.
• 14:14
  Philip Pape: Then I want to ask about HRT, and then, finally, let's get into lifestyle.
• 14:17
  Philip Pape: So insulin, yeah.
• 14:20
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, so insulin regulation is a it's really disrupted.
• 14:24
  Brooke Davis: You become more insulin resistant during perimenopause simply because of the hormonal shifts estrogen, progesterone, cortisol that impacts your blood sugar.
• 14:33
  Brooke Davis: So you know throughout that that is definitely one like really simple shift that women can make.
• 14:40
  Brooke Davis: I don't know if we're gonna get into that yet, but that is.
• 14:42
  Brooke Davis: You know, insulin resistance leads to metabolic disease.
• 14:46
  Brooke Davis: That is part of, you know, the decline of metabolism in the system overall, and so that is absolutely a consideration during perimenopause that can be addressed really easily with nutrition and lifestyle.
• 14:58
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so you're such a tease Like what is the super secret sauce to doing it?
• 15:01
  Philip Pape: And actually, before we do that, is it HRT.
• 15:05
  Brooke Davis: No no.
• 15:06
  Brooke Davis: Um yeah, no, uh, I mean it.
• 15:09
  Brooke Davis: It can potentially help for sure, but yeah, as far as you know, nutrition, I don't, I don't want to take your, your glory, that's on, that's what your podcast, but muscle there's overlap, there's lots of overlap.
• 15:20
  Philip Pape: It's all good Jump into it, you can't just separate them.
• 15:22
  Philip Pape: You can't separate them.
• 15:23
  Brooke Davis: First and foremost is muscle Um.
• 15:25
  Brooke Davis: The more muscle you have, um you know, the less impact all of that is going to have on the body.
• 15:30
  Brooke Davis: Um more you know glycogen gets shuttled into the muscles, the less um insulin sensitivity.
• 15:35
  Brooke Davis: Um.
• 15:36
  Brooke Davis: So, as far as um nutrition goes, managing blood sugar, making sure that you have balanced meals, first of all, um making sure that you know each meal starts with a fiber fat, um, and then ideally going to protein and then your carbohydrates, so, um that slows down the digestion and reduces the impact on blood sugar.
• 15:57
  Philip Pape: Um, okay, hold on, let's.
• 15:58
  Philip Pape: Let's break it down for people.
• 15:59
  Philip Pape: Let's do blood sugar, cause there's there's a lot of misinformation about blood sugar.
• 16:03
  Philip Pape: Yeah, a lot of CGM stuff out there as well, like the, the glucose monitors, for better or worse.
• 16:08
  Philip Pape: There it's a tool, uh, and I just had actually Christina McClurkin was just on recently.
• 16:13
  Philip Pape: You know her from our group as well, yeah.
• 16:15
  Carol: Right and blood sugar is like one of her pillars.
• 16:17
  Philip Pape: There we go.
• 16:18
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so we all understand the value of fiber and stuff, but you just said um start with a fiber.
• 16:22
  Philip Pape: I think you said fiber and then fat and then protein and then vegetable or carbs.
• 16:27
  Philip Pape: Is that like the sequence of building your plate you're thinking, or the sequence of how you eat with your plate?
• 16:33
  Philip Pape: What are you referring to?
• 16:34
  Brooke Davis: How you eat.
• 16:35
  Brooke Davis: I mean, you could do it to build your plate as well.
• 16:37
  Brooke Davis: Uh, absolutely, but yeah, the order in which you actually eat your food.
• 16:41
  Philip Pape: Good, okay, sequencing, yep, cool.
• 16:44
  Brooke Davis: Yes.
• 16:44
  Philip Pape: All right, all right, continue.
• 16:46
  Philip Pape: I just wanted to touch on the blood sugar piece.
• 16:49
  Brooke Davis: Blood sugar.
• 16:49
  Brooke Davis: Okay.
• 16:50
  Brooke Davis: So, yes, the order in which.
• 16:51
  Brooke Davis: And then, of course, making sure that overall, I mean, you're not eating a ton of processed sugar, processed carbohydrates.
• 16:57
  Brooke Davis: That is like, first and foremost, that I tend to skip that because I'm like that's a given right, but it's not.
• 17:02
  Brooke Davis: So you know, reducing sugar, reducing added sugars, even if you have, you know fruits are, generally speaking, okay If you have, you know, type two, whatever type one, diabetes or whatever already, then that is something you want to manage and make sure that, even you know, with your fruit, maybe everyone is different and this is the crazy thing, like there have been studies to where you know one person might react to a sweet potato, you know their, their blood sugar might go through the roof and another person might be totally fine, like that, they don't have that much of an impact.
• 17:32
  Brooke Davis: So that is one reason where one one time, uh, or one reason why CGMs can actually be really powerful, continuous glucose monitors for those who are familiar with that.
• 17:42
  Brooke Davis: But because you know, and it's not only food that spikes your blood sugar, uh, stress, right, periods of stress, if cortisol is being pumped in your system, then you know that can impact your blood sugar.
• 17:54
  Brooke Davis: And so managing that first and foremost?
• 17:57
  Brooke Davis: Uh, but that is where, like I said, if you have access to a CGM, I really think and especially through premenopause, it's just data not to confuse the fact that your blood sugar should stay in a straight line all day long.
• 18:11
  Brooke Davis: No, but there may be things impacting your blood sugar that you don't realize, that do have more of an effect on you than even other people.
• 18:20
  Brooke Davis: So that can absolutely be a powerful tool just for information and making you know small shifts that help support your body.
• 18:29
  Philip Pape: But why is it?
• 18:30
  Philip Pape: Why is blood sugar important?
• 18:32
  Brooke Davis: I mean it's stress on the body is the reality of it, and the more you know your body has to work to produce insulin, to regulate it.
• 18:40
  Brooke Davis: It's just having to work overtime.
• 18:43
  Philip Pape: Okay, that's a good one.
• 18:44
  Philip Pape: I'm glad you said that, because a lot of people have a different angle they come to when they talk about blood sugar.
• 18:49
  Philip Pape: For some people, it is the insulin where I think that's overplayed if you're lifting, if you're living the right lifestyle, and others say it's the energy crashes.
• 18:56
  Philip Pape: But I think that's because of the inconsistency in your cortisol, which is your stress, and what you're implying is that, overall, you're saying that chronic stress can be pushed up if you have erratic blood sugar.
• 19:07
  Philip Pape: Is that right?
• 19:08
  Philip Pape: Yeah, important, important to know, like, like all the different things that cause it.
• 19:12
  Philip Pape: It's the same thing with, like, inconsistent sleep and wake times and inconsistent eating patterns, and so your body wants to be safe and secure and that's one way to do it.
• 19:19
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 19:19
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 19:21
  Brooke Davis: Um, and, like you mentioned, like, yes, energy levels, um, cravings, for sure you know, for fast energy if your blood sugar is spiking and then tanking.
• 19:29
  Brooke Davis: So I mean, those are all.
• 19:35
  Brooke Davis: Again, it's a stressor on the body overall, but uh, impacts how you feel and how you perform.
• 19:37
  Brooke Davis: And then, uh, going on walks, as far as managing, you know, uh, blood sugar after meals, um, you know a 10 minute walk, um, there was also a really recent study that came out.
• 19:46
  Brooke Davis: It's, I mean, it's all over, but um, if you it was 10, 10 squats every 45 minutes actually managed blood sugar better than a 30 minute walk after meals.
• 19:55
  Brooke Davis: Uh, but just that, like, um, you know consistent input of glucose into the muscles and you know, utilization of it throughout the day, um, like I said, it just helped manage blood sugar and I'm sure, as they went I don't know how long the study actually was, but I'm sure they built muscle and it improved everything.
• 20:15
  Philip Pape: Hold on.
• 20:15
  Philip Pape: So that's cool.
• 20:16
  Philip Pape: I hadn't heard about that one.
• 20:17
  Philip Pape: Did they at all compare it to one long training session in the day?
• 20:23
  Brooke Davis: No, it was compared to walks.
• 20:24
  Philip Pape: Yeah, cause I was wondering if you know cause.
• 20:26
  Philip Pape: Again, I always make the anecdotal argument.
• 20:28
  Philip Pape: I think it's supported by evidence, but that, like a nice solid training session, hard training session in the morning is great for your stress for the whole day.
• 20:35
  Philip Pape: It might have a similar effect of like the micro doses of movement, just wondering.
• 20:41
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, um, no, there's actually.
• 20:42
  Brooke Davis: So the studies I mean this wasn't specifically on blood sugar, but I mean the the studies on exercise stacks.
• 20:47
  Brooke Davis: There are some studies, especially, uh, based on like strength, that I've read that, um, you, they actually were able to improve strength performance better by breaking up sessions because of the recovery piece of it, right, um, and then exercise snacks, you know as far as the benefits of it are equal to, you know, if not potentially better than one like long training session, um, so I think, I think it, and it makes sense to me that you know the consistent, again, utilization and and input of glucose into the muscles throughout the day would be more beneficial than even just a single like bout of exercise.
• 21:27
  Brooke Davis: But that would be an interesting study.
• 21:28
  Brooke Davis: Maybe someday I'll do that.
• 21:29
  Philip Pape: It's food for thought.
• 21:30
  Philip Pape: Look, I mean, at the end of the day, you got to make it work, so you do something right, like do one of those things.
• 21:35
  Philip Pape: But if you're like I could do either.
• 21:38
  Philip Pape: Which do I do.
• 21:38
  Philip Pape: It's nice to know which one's a little more optimal for some folks.
• 21:41
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, but I mean one thing we do like with kind of is like every time you go to the bathroom like do 10 extra squats like you, especially for, you know, those who sit at a desk, like you know, can you set a timer for the hour and just stand up and do 10 squat, right, it takes 10, maybe 15 seconds, right, to do 10 squats.
• 21:57
  Brooke Davis: Like who doesn't have time to do that?
• 22:00
  Philip Pape: Oh yeah, people will say they don't have time for a lot of things right brook, that they do.
• 22:03
  Philip Pape: So all right, so continuing on with like we're.
• 22:07
  Philip Pape: So ultimately, we're trying to support hormones for women in perimenopause and again people are thinking okay, where blood sugar comes into this because of the stress we mentioned before, the logical chain here of stress Affecting hormones, affecting fat storage, the ability to lose fat.
• 22:21
  Philip Pape: I want to make sure that the listener continues to have that like what are the cause and effect of all this and where do I ultimately have the biggest impact with my actions, rather than like getting frustrated and thinking I have to get treatment or supplements or something like that.
• 22:35
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, uh, like I said.
• 22:36
  Brooke Davis: So biggest thing, like simple shifts with nutrition, that would be, you know, making sure, like I said, you're getting enough protein, you're getting enough high quality, nutrient dense food, enough fiber right, 25 to 35 grams per day of fiber, and then, in the order that you eat your meals, fiber, fat, protein, carbs and and then you know again if you strength training, of course, strength training two to three times a week, uh, making sure you have that muscle if you can do walks and your squats throughout the day.
• 23:09
  Brooke Davis: I mean those are some of the most impactful things you can do.
• 23:12
  Philip Pape: as far as blood sugar is concerned, so maybe the other angle on this is what not to do, because I'll tell you and you, I'm sure, a hundred percent agree with what you hear online all the time fasting, low carb.
• 23:27
  Philip Pape: What are the other?
• 23:28
  Brooke Davis: ones Like we could just knock them down right now.
• 23:29
  Brooke Davis: Let's go.
• 23:30
  Brooke Davis: Okay, okay, uh, so fasting, um, I actually also have a whole podcast on this.
• 23:34
  Philip Pape: Um, but do you know what number it is, what episode, or is it recent?
• 23:38
  Brooke Davis: If we.
• 23:38
  Philip Pape: If we connect, we could drop it in later.
• 23:40
  Brooke Davis: Okay, okay, yeah, uh, it's, it was semi-recent, um, if they, you know, if they scroll through there, find it, I only have 40 episodes, so it's not like it'd be awesome.
• 23:48
  Philip Pape: I'm sure they're.
• 23:48
  Philip Pape: They're super high quality.
• 23:50
  Philip Pape: 40 episodes so good.
• 23:51
  Philip Pape: That's easy.
• 23:51
  Philip Pape: People can binge the whole thing yeah.
• 23:53
  Brooke Davis: Um, but so fasting?
• 23:55
  Brooke Davis: Um, there are.
• 23:56
  Brooke Davis: There are a ton of benefits to fasting, actually.
• 23:58
  Brooke Davis: Uh, most people, especially women, are doing it wrong.
• 24:01
  Brooke Davis: The reality of it is that, you know, not eating under nourishing, um, that is a stressor, and most women are already not eating enough, and so you cut off, you know, you give yourself a six hour time window to shove 2000 calories in, like I mean I love to eat, but like that's going to be hard for even me, Um and so, and then most women, you know, aren't getting, like I said, enough as it is and so.
• 24:27
  Brooke Davis: But you know, within that then we have cortisol and that is again a blood sugar regulator.
• 24:32
  Brooke Davis: So if you wake up in the morning, you, when your cortisol should be right, the highest, that's normal, we want it to be high, that's what wakes you up and it helps stabilize your blood sugar through the night because we're not eating overnight.
• 24:45
  Brooke Davis: So in the morning, right, it's.
• 24:46
  Brooke Davis: Waking up, it's high.
• 24:47
  Brooke Davis: If you continue to not eat right, instead of breaking that fast and allowing you know the food that you're eating to then stabilize your blood sugar, your cortisol will continue to remain elevated.
• 24:59
  Brooke Davis: So that's problem number one and most women, they're not cutting off their eating window at night, because that is the most difficult for most people, but they, so they take it off the morning and so when they're doing fasting, they're not eating until you know 12, one o'clock, on top of which they're usually, you know, having coffee, which also caffeine can be a major stressor can increase your cortisol, which and I and I have to like just clarify this because cortisol, there's nothing wrong inherently with cortisol.
• 25:28
  Brooke Davis: We need it, right.
• 25:29
  Brooke Davis: It is a natural hormone that has plays a role in, you know, every function of our body, but especially in perimenopause, it can actually really impact fat loss efforts and you know the way that your body continues to produce hormones.
• 25:47
  Brooke Davis: So, because too much cortisol will actually take the energy from other sex hormones, and so you know that you'll see, not not influencers, but like a lot of people being like cortisol doesn't matter.
• 26:00
  Brooke Davis: Like you know, people are pushing it too much and it's like, okay, there's a, there's a line, like I don't want you to just stress over cortisol, but you have to know that there are physiological, like implications to these actions that you're taking, um, and they can impact your fat loss efforts.
• 26:17
  Philip Pape: So many, many rant there, um no, no it, it makes sense, especially when you're like it's an indicator, it's biomarker, biofeedback, of what's going on.
• 26:26
  Philip Pape: It's not that you want to go out and get a cortisol blocking supplement and just put a patch on this downstream thing.
• 26:32
  Philip Pape: You want to lift and eat for your blood sugar and balance your food and don't fast at the wrong time, et cetera.
• 26:37
  Philip Pape: Yeah, okay, totally, totally.
• 26:38
  Brooke Davis: So so, yeah, that's your food, and don't fast at the wrong time, et cetera.
• 26:40
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, okay, totally, totally so.
• 26:40
  Brooke Davis: So, yeah, that's, um, those are, I mean, two of the major like issues with fasting is they're they're not getting enough food, um, because it's really hard to eat in that window.
• 26:50
  Brooke Davis: And then that extended morning, you know, fast is does impact blood sugar, cortisol, et cetera, um, and then if they're not planning, you know what they're going to eat, if it's not quality, right, they're not only undernourishing, they're not getting a protein, which causes muscle loss, they are, you know, not getting enough fiber, which causes, you know, backup and detox and bowel movements, and then you know, so that's, those are the major issues with it.
• 27:13
  Brooke Davis: But, honestly, having a having an eating window and stopping eating, like six, you know, seven, maybe even at the latest, I think, honestly for everybody, not just perimenopausal women, but there's a reason that you know we have this overnight, uh, fast, and it gives your body a chance to actually regenerate, right, fasting it does actually have a lot of benefits, but it has to be done in the right way, for pregnant and postulant women specifically, I mean everybody.
• 27:46
  Carol: Before I started working with Philip, I had been trying to lose weight and was really struggling with consistency, but from the very beginning, philip took the time to listen to me and understand my goals.
• 27:56
  Carol: He taught me the importance of fueling my body with the right foods to optimize my training in the gym, and I lost 20 pounds.
• 28:05
  Carol: More importantly, I gained self-confidence.
• 28:09
  Carol: What sets Philip apart is the personal connection.
• 28:14
  Carol: He supported and encouraged me every step of the way.
• 28:17
  Carol: So if you're looking for a coach who cares about your journey as much as you do, I highly recommend Philip Pape.
• 28:26
  Philip Pape: No, that makes sense.
• 28:27
  Philip Pape: That's a great approach, right?
• 28:28
  Philip Pape: Like we're not trying to black and white everything here and say there's you know, only one way.
• 28:33
  Philip Pape: There's the way to do it.
• 28:34
  Philip Pape: And, as everybody's fasting, when they sleep, right, they're fasting.
• 28:37
  Philip Pape: So now it's a matter of like okay, at the end of the day, listen to your body.
• 28:41
  Philip Pape: How's your food impacting your sleep and your biometrics?
• 28:44
  Philip Pape: If you shifted your time window, would you be more consistent with it?
• 28:47
  Philip Pape: Could you align it with your energy during the day, like all the things?
• 28:50
  Philip Pape: Right, yeah, so how does?
• 28:52
  Philip Pape: Where do carbs come into this as well, cause recently I've been digging in.
• 28:55
  Philip Pape: Did I come out with the episode?
• 28:57
  Philip Pape: Yet?
• 28:57
  Philip Pape: I don't know.
• 28:57
  Philip Pape: There might be one coming out about the connection between carbs and cortisol, which I think is pretty cool.
• 29:09
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, yeah, I mean carbs help manage cortisol output is the reality of it, and that is one reason why low carb diets one reason are an issue.
• 29:14
  Brooke Davis: The other side of that, there are actually some studies that short-term, especially for perimenopausal women, short-term lower carb, higher fat diets, um do actually help, you know, stabilize blood sugar, decrease stress in the body, help with hormone production, especially from women who, like this is it's like a generational thing.
• 29:32
  Brooke Davis: So, like the generation before me, they were like low fat right, eating the low fat dairy low fat milk, that kind of thing.
• 29:40
  Brooke Davis: And then my generation, I feel like, is low carb.
• 29:43
  Brooke Davis: We're like, all right, we're going to do keto or low carb.
• 29:45
  Brooke Davis: So it kind of depends on like, and some people are kind of in the middle of that.
• 29:50
  Brooke Davis: So I get, I get, you know, different one coming to me but but the, you know, getting enough quality fats most importantly, which is we're not on keto yet.
• 29:59
  Brooke Davis: But that is the biggest, uh, you know, issue, and because hormones are made with B vitamins and cholesterol and so without that fat, that those quality fats, um, you're going to struggle to make hormones and so, and then carbohydrates, I mean carbs, are body's main and preferred source of energy, is the reality of it.
• 30:18
  Brooke Davis: Um, they also have a ton of fiber.
• 30:20
  Brooke Davis: So, you know, we're not just looking at cortisol in terms of regulation, but, um, detoxification, you know, digestion, the fiber in foods feed our gut microbiome, which is a whole nother aspect of perimenopause that, uh, you know, comes into play, and so carbs are a necessary part of life and so carbs are a necessary part of life.
• 30:42
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I agree.
• 30:42
  Philip Pape: And you didn't even have to, like, make the case for all the other benefits for performance and energy and recovery.
• 30:47
  Philip Pape: Now, just saying that, that alone I've seen it.
• 30:50
  Philip Pape: I'm sure you've seen it.
• 30:50
  Philip Pape: Women come to you having undernourished but also eating too few carbs, and just adding carbs can all of a sudden unlock a whole bunch of vitality.
• 30:58
  Philip Pape: You know, it's like whoa, I have energy.
• 31:06
  Brooke Davis: I have my hormones, you know, whatever.
• 31:06
  Brooke Davis: So, before we wrap up, yeah, go ahead and fat loss, yes, yes, I know we're over time, but, um, that is one of the biggest things.
• 31:09
  Brooke Davis: Like you know, people come to us, they're eating low carb, low calorie I mean, I've literally doubled some women's calories, and you know and they lose weight and they're like what is that?
• 31:21
  Brooke Davis: It's like this is what happens when you nourish your body, right it?
• 31:25
  Brooke Davis: Because then it comes back to the nervous system, I think largely.
• 31:28
  Brooke Davis: You know you're in that fight-or-flight state when you're starving, basically, and so your body's like no, we're hanging on to.
• 31:34
  Brooke Davis: You know, everything we got right now.
• 31:37
  Brooke Davis: And you know, yes, like when it comes to starvation, right, if you are vastly under eating for a long period of time, yeah, you're just, I mean, you're gonna lose weight and waste away to nothing.
• 31:49
  Brooke Davis: But that's not usually what happens.
• 31:52
  Brooke Davis: People, you know, eat low carb, low calorie all week, and then they have one day that they eat a ton, to try, you know, because their bodies are trying to make up for it all, and so they're not actually like starving, but they would be if they ate how they do during the week, like all the time.
• 32:07
  Brooke Davis: So, yeah, it's a.
• 32:09
  Brooke Davis: It's an interesting phenomenon to witness.
• 32:11
  Brooke Davis: Yeah, I think.
• 32:13
  Philip Pape: I think you hit on some of the really big points today, like, just to recap right, we came into this with the premise why are women struggling to lose fat, or why are they gaining more fat during perimenopause?
• 32:24
  Philip Pape: And what I heard from you is it is the hormones, but it's not necessarily the hormones, in that what you're doing about it supports your hormones and it's not like you're trying to just therapy your way out of it.
• 32:35
  Philip Pape: Right, you supplement your way out of it and it's really so.
• 32:37
  Philip Pape: It's both.
• 32:37
  Philip Pape: It's all of it together, and you have to understand the change in physiology and that you can't act like you were in your twenties, that you've got to eat enough food and nutrients, enough fiber.
• 32:46
  Philip Pape: You have to have balance.
• 32:47
  Philip Pape: You have to think about your blood sugar.
• 32:48
  Philip Pape: It sounds like a lot, but at the end of the day I think you hinted multiple times eating a variety of whole foods, nutritious foods and like not under eating is a great start.
• 32:58
  Philip Pape: It's a great start and just to kind of segue into ending this episode and then teasing into the other conversation we're having how do cardio and lifting then play into this?
• 33:06
  Philip Pape: Because it's not just about nutrition, right?
• 33:09
  Brooke Davis: Absolutely yeah.
• 33:11
  Brooke Davis: So I mean, I mentioned muscle.
• 33:12
  Brooke Davis: That is a huge supporter of not only blood sugar but of bone health, of longevity, quality of life, which, you know, people in their 20s aren't usually too worried about.
• 33:22
  Brooke Davis: But I feel like once you get into your 30s and 40s, you it's at least in the back of your head being like, okay, you know, I don't want to be in a wheelchair or have to be in a walker or have somebody else taking care of me when I'm, you know, 60, 70 years old.
• 33:34
  Brooke Davis: So you know, strength training at least two to three times a week, um, you know, 30 minute sessions and we want to lift heavy.
• 33:41
  Brooke Davis: This is, this is I'm going to put heavy in quotes heavy, heavy for you.
• 33:44
  Brooke Davis: Um, people hear heavy and they get really intimidated.
• 33:47
  Brooke Davis: Uh, women, women here.
• 33:52
  Philip Pape: I have quotes too.
• 33:53
  Brooke Davis: I have a pair of quotes in my pocket too for heavy, just like you do.
• 33:54
  Brooke Davis: Okay, yeah, um, but you know, this is uh studies were done on strength training and um is uh studies were done on strength training and um, you know, 75% of your warm rep max, for you know, four to six reps is going to be kind of the optimal range for uh, building muscle but also reducing um, or reducing inflammation, um, basically, longevity markers.
• 34:16
  Brooke Davis: There was a bunch of longevity markers tested with these uh ranges and those were the ones that improved the stats the most essentially.
• 34:24
  Brooke Davis: And so, um, uh, so, strength training in that capacity, um, plyometrics, those are all going to impact bone density, which vastly decreases as estrogen declines.
• 34:34
  Brooke Davis: Um, you know, after age 30 for women, um, and that is.
• 34:38
  Brooke Davis: And then, speaking of, you know, quality of life, right, you break a hip after age 65, you, the 30% of people, die within a year.
• 34:46
  Brooke Davis: 60% die within five years, like it's, it's gnarly.
• 34:49
  Brooke Davis: So those are really powerful tools and really important tools for again maintaining not just fat loss and metabolism, that kind of stuff, but also quality of life as you age.
• 34:59
  Brooke Davis: And then cardio, cardio gets, I'm going to say, really bastardized but, and so you absolutely need it.
• 35:09
  Brooke Davis: You need it for heart health.
• 35:10
  Brooke Davis: High intensity exercise, even, is great for even women in perimenopause.
• 35:14
  Brooke Davis: But we do have to manage it right.
• 35:16
  Brooke Davis: You can't go to boot camp six days a week, you know, for an hour long high intensity class and think that your body is going to be stoked about it.
• 35:27
  Brooke Davis: Um, not only are your joints probably not going to love it, um, but also, if that's a major stressor, um, you're probably not eating enough to support that kind of activity as it is.
• 35:33
  Brooke Davis: So, um, you know, usually I recommend, um and I mean science recommends you know to to at most usually true high intensity, and that's the other thing is that an hour long class is not true High intensity work shouldn't last usually more than 15, 20 minutes, yeah, if you're, if you're pushing like you're not lasting more than you know 15, 20 minutes doing something like that.
• 35:54
  Brooke Davis: And then uh, zone two is another really powerful heart health, cardiovascular supporting way to support your overall fat loss and just longevity through perimenopause.
• 36:10
  Philip Pape: Love it, love it.
• 36:10
  Philip Pape: And if you're listening and you're like, okay, I'm struggling, I'm frustrated, I can't lose weight, even though we're ultimately talking about fat loss, even though we're ultimately talking about fat loss, setting things up the way Brooke talked about today, without stressing yourself with another diet, is a great start, before you then say, okay, now I've got things dialed in, now let me go for some little more aggressive, say fat loss.
• 36:30
  Philip Pape: At that point you know there's an order of things we want to do.
• 36:32
  Philip Pape: So, all right, if you like what you heard in this episode, everyone, um, you're going to want to listen to the second half of this.
• 36:38
  Philip Pape: We kind of hinted and teased at it.
• 36:39
  Philip Pape: Brooke interviews me on Fitness Simplified podcast.
• 36:42
  Philip Pape: It's in your feed right now.
• 36:43
  Philip Pape: Same time, different podcast, of course, fitness Simplified.
• 36:46
  Philip Pape: We're going to talk about muscle metabolism.
• 36:49
  Philip Pape: She explained the hormones really well here, the lifestyle, the nutrition side.
• 36:53
  Philip Pape: So we're going to talk about body composition, muscle metabolism.
• 36:55
  Philip Pape: Search for Fitness Simplified podcast or click the link in the show notes.
• 36:59
  Philip Pape: Brooke, it has been a lot of fun.
• 37:01
  Philip Pape: It's been a pleasure to have you on.
• 37:02
  Philip Pape: Thanks for joining me again yes, thank you.
• 37:05
  Brooke Davis: Thank you, this is awesome, great combo.