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Hollywood TV Honcho Found Dead · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This guy with a long
0:11
Speaker 1: gray beard has just been charged with the murder of
0:14
Speaker 1: a top Hollywood TV director, a cold case that has
0:17
Speaker 1: baffled cops for thirty five years. Which you've done this murder?
0:21
Speaker 1: Though it's possible, anything's possible. The murder victim, Barry Crane
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Speaker 1: directed some of television's most iconic shows in the nineteen
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Speaker 1: seventies and eighties. Dallas, Hawaii Five, Mission Impossible, Wonder Woman,
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Speaker 1: and many of his other shows are still in reruns
0:44
Speaker 1: to this day. The fifty seven year old director was
0:47
Speaker 1: found by a housekeeper dead in his garage in his
0:49
Speaker 1: studio city townhouse north of Los Angeles. He was naked
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Speaker 1: and wrapped in blankets. He'd been bludgeoned by a large
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Speaker 1: ceramic statue and been strangled with a telephone cord, and
1:00
Speaker 1: there was evidence inside that a struggle had taken place. Man,
1:04
Speaker 1: what a way to go this iconic director. Did you
1:08
Speaker 1: hear those theme songs Wonder Woman? All the great hits
1:12
Speaker 1: of that era? He was the director and his found strangled, dead,
1:18
Speaker 1: naked and wrapped up and rug I means he Grace,
1:22
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. What happened to Barry Crane and
1:26
Speaker 1: has the case been cracked after all these years. I mean,
1:31
Speaker 1: you'd think in a town like Hollywood, with all the
1:34
Speaker 1: gossip going on, this case could have been solved a
1:37
Speaker 1: long time ago, but not necessarily straight out to John Linley,
1:41
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, tell me about the murder.
1:45
Speaker 1: A housekeeper actually found the body of a fifty seven
1:49
Speaker 1: year old man dead in his garage in his Studio
1:53
Speaker 1: City townhouse. This was July fifth, nineteen eighty five. The
1:58
Speaker 1: man was completely named kid and had been wrapped in bedsheets.
2:03
Speaker 1: It was later determined that he had been beaten with
2:06
Speaker 1: a large ceramic statue and strangled with a telephone cord.
2:11
Speaker 1: Investigators also soon came to the realization that he was
2:15
Speaker 1: not murdered in the garage, but that his body had
2:18
Speaker 1: been moved from his townhouse hold. That thought, Wendy Patrick,
2:23
Speaker 1: California prosecutor, this is in your backyard. Wendy Patrick, author
2:27
Speaker 1: of Red Flags. You can find it on Amazon. Let
2:31
Speaker 1: me just said several things that caught my attention. I've
2:34
Speaker 1: only got a couple of citizens out of him so far.
2:36
Speaker 1: But the victim, Barry Crane, number one, very very popular
2:42
Speaker 1: high paid, You know that rolling in money from directing
2:46
Speaker 1: all those TV hits. But listen to this killed in
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Speaker 1: one spot then dragged to the garage now right there.
2:56
Speaker 1: That tells me this is not random Wendy. Because if
3:00
Speaker 1: money breaks in, let's just say, to steal your money
3:02
Speaker 1: and your TV or whatever they can get their mits on.
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Speaker 1: They don't take the time to roll you up and
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Speaker 1: rug and hide your body. They get the hay out
3:09
Speaker 1: of their Wendy. So already I've got an idea of
3:12
Speaker 1: where this is headed. Yeah, Nancy, you know, and especially
3:14
Speaker 1: when you talk about cold cases, when we try to
3:17
Speaker 1: warm them up, it is details like John Linley just
3:20
Speaker 1: so eloquently described that make a big difference. Is why
3:23
Speaker 1: do you have a murder in one area and then
3:26
Speaker 1: a movement to another. And although you and I are
3:29
Speaker 1: now your listeners probably know you don't need to prove
3:32
Speaker 1: motive motive matters to a jury. They want to know
3:35
Speaker 1: why would somebody do this, especially given that you know
3:38
Speaker 1: the beloved status of this man. Apparently he was just
3:41
Speaker 1: involved in so many interesting not only productions, but also
3:45
Speaker 1: his personal life was interesting as well. Did he make
3:48
Speaker 1: some enemies along the way? Was this somebody that wanted
3:50
Speaker 1: to make it look like something else happened. So absolutely,
3:53
Speaker 1: details like this matter. That's why we say the devils
3:57
Speaker 1: are in the detail, and this is how this case
3:58
Speaker 1: is being put together. He said something earlier, John Linley,
4:02
Speaker 1: that he was beaten with a ceramic statute and strangle
4:05
Speaker 1: with a telephone cord. Bobby Chicone, that tells me. Also,
4:10
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone with me FBI special agent that while it
4:14
Speaker 1: was someone that took the time to stage the scene,
4:18
Speaker 1: it was also someone that used what was available to
4:22
Speaker 1: them in the home. In other words, they didn't come
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Speaker 1: in with a gun, they didn't come in with a knife,
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Speaker 1: they didn't come in with a murder weapon. They used
4:32
Speaker 1: what was there. So it sounds like a crime of
4:36
Speaker 1: opportunity or anger, but someone that knew him because they
4:41
Speaker 1: staged the scene after. Can you verbalize where I'm headed
4:45
Speaker 1: on this, Bobby Chicone Absolutely, Nancy, I think you're exactly right.
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Speaker 1: I think that the indications are to me, based on
4:52
Speaker 1: the crime scene, that there was a relationship between these two,
4:57
Speaker 1: some type of relationship. They knew each other. Um, you know,
5:01
Speaker 1: it wasn't a premeditated robbery. It wasn't And because if
5:04
Speaker 1: you go into someone's house to rob them, you don't
5:06
Speaker 1: wrap them up in a carpet. Um. I believe he
5:08
Speaker 1: was naked, so, you know, there seemed to be some
5:11
Speaker 1: kind of, um, either personal friend relationship between these two. Um, Okay,
5:16
Speaker 1: that's some kind of friend if he's naked. I don't
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Speaker 1: know what kind of friend you're referring to. But what
5:23
Speaker 1: they'd say was more than just a friend. But go ahead,
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Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, we don't. We don't know why the
5:28
Speaker 1: clothes were removed, you know, Um, it could have been
5:30
Speaker 1: a friends accountment. You know, you just don't know at
5:32
Speaker 1: this point. Um, but there was clear um that they
5:35
Speaker 1: may have been trying to get rid of the body.
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Speaker 1: They may have been a plan to take the body
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Speaker 1: out of that home. Maybe that plan was interrupted. Why
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Speaker 1: wrap a body in a rug or carpet and then
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Speaker 1: leave it at the scene of the crime. Back to
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Speaker 1: John Linley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, Okay, I
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Speaker 1: believe you left off where he had been murdered in
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Speaker 1: one part of the home and dragged to the garage.
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Speaker 1: I think it's what you said. You told me he
6:02
Speaker 1: was blooded with a ceramic statute, but strangle dead, strangulation
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Speaker 1: my ligature was the cod cause of death with a
6:12
Speaker 1: phone cord. What was very interesting to investigators were what
6:17
Speaker 1: was missing from the home and the garage where his
6:20
Speaker 1: body was found. His brand new Cadillac was gone, and
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Speaker 1: his wallet. There were no other signs of additional burglary though,
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Speaker 1: or even forced entry into that studio city home. No
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Speaker 1: forced entry, no burglary, although going in and leaving with
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Speaker 1: the wallet would qualifies burglary. Wendy Patrick, Yeah, you know,
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Speaker 1: that's one of the things you look at, is what's missing,
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Speaker 1: what was the intent going in. Obviously we have several
6:45
Speaker 1: different felonies here that would make the case for burglary,
6:48
Speaker 1: but there's just some of the other facts, you know.
6:50
Speaker 1: Then John Linley points out one of them, no forced entry.
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Speaker 1: The big suspects are going to be his circle of friends,
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Speaker 1: his circle of acquaintances, those whom he may have invited
7:00
Speaker 1: fight it over, or whom he may not have felt
7:02
Speaker 1: uncomfortable welcoming into his home. And you also have to
7:06
Speaker 1: wonder how many people knew where he lived. We're welcome
7:09
Speaker 1: his house guests, so they're narrowing in on those that
7:13
Speaker 1: were closest to him, which of course is where we
7:15
Speaker 1: always start when we have a murder, but it's just
7:18
Speaker 1: interesting when you do have the movement, why and how
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Speaker 1: does that play into what the motive ultimately will be.
7:25
Speaker 1: Those will be the facts that we're going to be
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Speaker 1: looking at next. You know, it's not a garage apartment,
7:28
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, Lemley's right. It was a townhouse
7:32
Speaker 1: with a garage attached to it. And it's his studio city,
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Speaker 1: which is a really expensive area. I recall doing when
7:42
Speaker 1: we were on Dancing with the Stars that Neck of
7:46
Speaker 1: the Woods studio city not too far from that, and
7:50
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of stars and Hollywood executives live
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Speaker 1: because it's so close to all the studios, isn't that right, Wendy, Well, yeah,
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Speaker 1: And that's one of the other things that you look
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Speaker 1: at is geography always matters. And you know, when you
8:06
Speaker 1: look at these types of things and try to figure
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Speaker 1: out who would have had access, who would have known
8:10
Speaker 1: where he lived, and all the rest of it. These
8:12
Speaker 1: are the kind of things that make these cases so
8:14
Speaker 1: interesting to put together, as you and I know, Nancy,
8:17
Speaker 1: but also so important when you point this chronology and
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Speaker 1: timeline out for a jury. This is going to not
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Speaker 1: only help prove motive, but also help prove the case
8:25
Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable time Stories with Nancy Grace, a whole
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Speaker 1: case that has battled cops for thirty five years. The
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Speaker 1: murder victims. Barry Crane directed some of television's most iconic
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Speaker 1: shows in the nineteen seventies and eighties, Dallas, Why You Five, Oh,
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Speaker 1: Mission Impossible, Wonder Woman, and many of his other shows
9:08
Speaker 1: are still in reruns to this day. The fifty seven
9:11
Speaker 1: year old director was found by a housekeeper dead in
9:13
Speaker 1: his garage in his studio city townhouse north of Los Angeles.
9:17
Speaker 1: He was naked and wrapped in blankets. He'd been bludgeoned
9:20
Speaker 1: by a large ceramic statue and been strangled with a
9:22
Speaker 1: telephone cord, and there was evidence inside that a struggle
9:26
Speaker 1: had taken place. Thirty years later, How do they think
9:30
Speaker 1: they've matched up a guy eighteen at the time of
9:34
Speaker 1: this iconic director's murder. Take a listen to our frenzy KABCTV.
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Speaker 1: Everybody knew Barry, and all of a sudden his maid
9:42
Speaker 1: finds him wrapped up in his sheet. Bloody is garage.
9:46
Speaker 1: So it was a terrible story. The FBI says they
9:49
Speaker 1: were able to match Hyat's DNA on cigarette bunts in
9:52
Speaker 1: North Carolina with DNA on cigarettes found in Barry Crane's
9:56
Speaker 1: stolen car back in nineteen eighty five. Do you not
9:59
Speaker 1: remember what happen in nineteen eighty five? I have a
10:02
Speaker 1: really good memory of bits and pieces that were brought
10:04
Speaker 1: back to me just by suggested. Would you have done
10:07
Speaker 1: this murder in Adibot? Anything's possible back then, because No,
10:12
Speaker 1: I was big. I was big into drugs. Ella County
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Speaker 1: District Attorney Jackie Lacy announced murder charges today in Hyatt,
10:19
Speaker 1: now awaits extradition back to La. Wow. How did they
10:23
Speaker 1: go about matching up cigarette butts in North Carolina to
10:26
Speaker 1: a thirty year old cold case in LA How did
10:32
Speaker 1: they do it? John Lemley? As you well know, Nancy,
10:35
Speaker 1: more and more cases these days are being solved by
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Speaker 1: DNA and the guys. The investigators back in nineteen eighty
10:43
Speaker 1: five had the sense of mind to among the things
10:46
Speaker 1: they gathered evidence wise pick up some cigarette butts that
10:50
Speaker 1: were lying in that stolen Cadillac from Barry Crane's garage,
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Speaker 1: and then through more detective work now in twenty eighteen
11:02
Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen, they were able to take some discarded
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Speaker 1: cigarette butts that this man, mister Hyatt threw away and
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Speaker 1: low and behold a DNA match. But wait a minute,
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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, you have
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Speaker 1: to have a reason. Yes, you may have the cigarette
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Speaker 1: butts in the Cadillac, you may have fibers or fingerprints
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Speaker 1: or DNA inside the bed sheets in which the victim
11:29
Speaker 1: was wrapped, But how do you know to match it
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Speaker 1: up to a guy smoking a cigarette? North Carolina? Yeah,
11:36
Speaker 1: that's a result of tenacious investigation. That was the one
11:40
Speaker 1: thing that struck me about this story is how would
11:42
Speaker 1: you know, of the millions of people that you could
11:44
Speaker 1: suspect that this would be somebody that you'd want to
11:47
Speaker 1: pursue a match. It has gotten increasingly easy over the years,
11:52
Speaker 1: and you never want to say it's completely easy. But
11:54
Speaker 1: where we become much better at DNA and forensics, but
11:58
Speaker 1: that's still the old fashioned police work is how do
12:00
Speaker 1: you choose your potential suspect? And that's where good old
12:04
Speaker 1: fashioned investigation still saves the day, as apparently it did here.
12:07
Speaker 1: There's more to the story than just matching up DNA
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Speaker 1: off a cigarette butt, which is really your saliva on
12:15
Speaker 1: the tip of the cigarette and then you throw away
12:18
Speaker 1: the butt and cops can get that and match DNA,
12:21
Speaker 1: But you've got to have something to match it too.
12:24
Speaker 1: Let let's just say that Bobby Chikon's FBI special agent
12:28
Speaker 1: is with me and Karen starts sorry, Karen starts psychologist
12:32
Speaker 1: out of Manhattan, gets murdered. Chikon's fingerprint is found to
12:35
Speaker 1: the scene. Well, I mean, find a fingerprint, but that
12:39
Speaker 1: means nothing to me unless I can match it to something. Well,
12:43
Speaker 1: in this case, the case goes cold. But there had
12:47
Speaker 1: been a fingerprint, a fingerprint from Crane's stolen car. Suddenly
12:54
Speaker 1: you get a match on aphis the Fingerprint Data Bank.
13:00
Speaker 1: So John Limley, Crimeline dot Com investigative reporter, that fingerprint
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Speaker 1: matches back to this then eighteen year old person, Edwin Hyatt,
13:13
Speaker 1: now a grown man living in North Carolina, and he
13:16
Speaker 1: was familiar to LA police back in the eighties. Oh yeah, okay,
13:19
Speaker 1: that's what I was just about to ask you. And
13:22
Speaker 1: so they follow to Edwin High at North Carolina and
13:27
Speaker 1: then they see what he's doing. They get discard as
13:31
Speaker 1: cigarette butts and a coffee cup from the parking lot
13:37
Speaker 1: of an auto repair shop where High It works. They
13:41
Speaker 1: watch him, They see him discard a coffee cup like
13:44
Speaker 1: i'd throw out a McDonald's coffee cup. You better believe
13:46
Speaker 1: it's not Starbucks five dollars a cup. Anyway, They get
13:49
Speaker 1: the coffee cup and they match the saliva on the
13:52
Speaker 1: coffee cup to the saliva on that cigarette butt. That's
13:57
Speaker 1: how they did it. But I'm missing a link, John Limley,
14:00
Speaker 1: how they have Edwin Hyatt's fingerprint to go in a
14:04
Speaker 1: wild goose chase to North Carolina. Tell me he had
14:08
Speaker 1: been arrested a couple of times in the nineteen eighties,
14:11
Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties on some drug charges and some other
14:15
Speaker 1: minor charges. But that's how it was in. These fingerprints
14:19
Speaker 1: were in the system. Well, I don't get it. Why
14:21
Speaker 1: did it take so long to match up the fingerprints
14:25
Speaker 1: if they were in the system in the eighties, What
14:28
Speaker 1: do you think to Wendy Patrick, why did it take
14:30
Speaker 1: so long? Well? One of the things that we know
14:32
Speaker 1: about warming up cold cases is as the years go by,
14:35
Speaker 1: sometimes there are tips, there are loose ends, there are
14:38
Speaker 1: better forensic techniques, There are all these behind the scenes,
14:41
Speaker 1: really sort of basic investigations enhanced by the advances in
14:48
Speaker 1: forensics that allow us more leads to follow than perhaps
14:51
Speaker 1: we had back in the day. So when you have
14:53
Speaker 1: somebody that does have these things on file, whether it's
14:56
Speaker 1: alive of fingerprints, whatever you have, and you do get
14:59
Speaker 1: new leads through new techniques, we are able then to
15:02
Speaker 1: develop suspect profiles that we couldn't have developed thirty years ago.
15:06
Speaker 1: So when you have cases like this that are warmed
15:08
Speaker 1: up so far after the fact, you wonder whether behind
15:11
Speaker 1: the scenes, and I'm sure we'll learn more about this
15:13
Speaker 1: as the case progresses, that actually we're able to break
15:16
Speaker 1: it open, so prosecutors could have a shot at actually
15:19
Speaker 1: solving it. Bobby Chicone weight In from my experience, they
15:21
Speaker 1: nancy what it looks like. In this cases, they may
15:23
Speaker 1: have gotten a partial print from the car, the vehicle
15:27
Speaker 1: that was discarded, and so therefore over the years they
15:29
Speaker 1: didn't have enough and they were contacted by a fingerprint
15:32
Speaker 1: examiner in twenty eighteen that took a second look at it.
15:36
Speaker 1: And sometimes they can rehabilitate a partial print, they can
15:39
Speaker 1: build it better and give you a pool of suspects
15:42
Speaker 1: and then you can go out. In this case, they
15:44
Speaker 1: went out and got the DNA. They surveiled him because
15:47
Speaker 1: he may have been in the pool of these people
15:48
Speaker 1: that fit this partial print. And then they get the DNA.
15:51
Speaker 1: They matched the DNA because they didn't run out on
15:54
Speaker 1: the print, they ran out on the DNA they collected
15:56
Speaker 1: as DNA. They matched the DNA to the DNA found
15:59
Speaker 1: on the cigaretts inside the vehicle, and that's when they
16:02
Speaker 1: went and actually started to interrogate him. This is what
16:05
Speaker 1: we know about Edwin Hyatts passed. His criminal history dates
16:08
Speaker 1: back to eighty five caught in Utah with a stolen
16:12
Speaker 1: car that was not Cranes. So there you've got a
16:16
Speaker 1: similar transaction regarding stolen cars. His most notable charge it
16:20
Speaker 1: was in ninety seven a domestic violence charge. In that case,
16:24
Speaker 1: a witness reported Hyatt choked and beat his now ex
16:28
Speaker 1: wife to the point she vomited. He also allegedly threatened
16:33
Speaker 1: to burn the house down. There were drug offenses other
16:39
Speaker 1: minor charges, but it all culminates when an FBI surveillance
16:43
Speaker 1: team conducts an operation locates Hyatt working at an auto
16:46
Speaker 1: repair shop, and there is where they see him drink
16:49
Speaker 1: from a disposable coffee cup and throwaway cigarette butts out
16:53
Speaker 1: into the parking lot. That coffee cup, the lid, the
16:58
Speaker 1: cigarette butts were obtained from public areas without Hyatt's knowledge.
17:03
Speaker 1: Is that okay, Wendy Patrick. I mean, when you abandon
17:06
Speaker 1: something in plain view, a cop has the right to
17:09
Speaker 1: pick it up, doesn't he Yes, And we actually see
17:11
Speaker 1: lots of cases that are solved that way. As somebody's
17:13
Speaker 1: followed around, they discard a cup or a cigarette butt
17:16
Speaker 1: or the rest of it, and it's easy to get
17:18
Speaker 1: DNA off of that and then do a match. You know,
17:20
Speaker 1: there's a big difference between what police and law enforcement
17:23
Speaker 1: are allowed to do when you're in the comfort of
17:25
Speaker 1: your own home versus what they can observe, what they
17:28
Speaker 1: can obtain, and what they can then recover about what
17:31
Speaker 1: you do in public. And thankfully there are so many
17:34
Speaker 1: cases that are sold every day just like this one
17:37
Speaker 1: because of discarded items that they are then able to
17:39
Speaker 1: examine forensically and link up. Police collected discarded cigarette butts
17:44
Speaker 1: outside Hyatt's auto repair shop. There was a DNA match.
17:47
Speaker 1: Police said during the best I can, guys, just to
17:50
Speaker 1: get through this, I just don't want to remember the
17:52
Speaker 1: past because God's taken it from me. Everything that I'm
17:55
Speaker 1: at today is totally different lifestyle from where I was before.
17:59
Speaker 1: Would you have done murderer? Don't? I don't have any
18:01
Speaker 1: kind of memory at all. Guys Hyatt appeared in court
18:04
Speaker 1: today in a wheelchair. Hard to believe that, despite his appearance,
18:08
Speaker 1: he is just fifty two years old. He would have
18:10
Speaker 1: been eighteen at the time of the murder. I don't
18:13
Speaker 1: remember the guy until they told me his name, and
18:16
Speaker 1: then I didn't remember his pre and from WTVD, a
18:20
Speaker 1: Hollywood murder mystery appears to be solved. Authorities arresting this
18:25
Speaker 1: Burt County man in connection with the death of a
18:28
Speaker 1: TV producer named Barry Crane. The FBI says they linked
18:32
Speaker 1: ed Hyatt to the crime using DNA evidence gathered from
18:35
Speaker 1: Crane's Cadillac. Crane was murdered back in nineteen eighty five
18:39
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, his body found naked and wrapped in
18:42
Speaker 1: sheets in his garage. Crane produced shows like The Six
18:46
Speaker 1: Million Dollar Man, Dallas and Mission Impossible Crime Stories with
19:08
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. He was arrested on the New York City
19:14
Speaker 1: subway after authorities saying he has set Florida contectives done
19:18
Speaker 1: in Miami Beach say, Gibson killed a seventy seventy year
19:21
Speaker 1: old man and then wrote an unnerving message in the
19:24
Speaker 1: victim's blood, reading Rome must fall. Did you kill the
19:28
Speaker 1: guy in Florida? He mouthed the words with my bare hands.
19:35
Speaker 1: Oh that's chilling, all right? So do investigators believe them? Well,
19:38
Speaker 1: they are certainly looking into him, obviously. It does sound fantastical, right,
19:42
Speaker 1: a serial killer starting when he's so young, it's not
19:45
Speaker 1: unheard of. And you throw on the fact that he
19:46
Speaker 1: was only thirteen when he was first convicted of rape,
19:49
Speaker 1: how young he was with his other gruesome crimes. It's
19:52
Speaker 1: certainly worth looking into. And multiple agencies tell me they're
19:54
Speaker 1: doing that right now. All right, So let's breathe home.
19:56
Speaker 1: What are the ties Ac County? How did he even
19:58
Speaker 1: get here? You know, that's kind of a million dollar
20:00
Speaker 1: question At this point in time. Investigators believe he was
20:03
Speaker 1: essentially a vagrant, traveling criss crossing the country even as
20:07
Speaker 1: a child. Aside from his time in prison, we actually
20:10
Speaker 1: cannot find any records of him in Cobb County. I'm
20:14
Speaker 1: not sure why they think it's fantastical for there to
20:17
Speaker 1: be a serial killer, especially when you take into account
20:21
Speaker 1: he's leaving no traces of where he has been, seemingly
20:24
Speaker 1: traveling from state to state without any record of him
20:29
Speaker 1: being there, ending bragging, I killed him with my bare hands.
20:34
Speaker 1: I'm talking about thirty two year old Nicholas Gibson and
20:38
Speaker 1: his latest victim, now dead, Eric Stalker. I mean, see, Grace,
20:44
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
20:46
Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friends at eleven alive, Ryan Krueger,
20:49
Speaker 1: Who is this guy? I killed him with my bare hands,
20:53
Speaker 1: and I've watched him over and over. Make that statement
20:57
Speaker 1: the chilling moment of self profess serial killer admits to
21:02
Speaker 1: murdering a victim and cutting up the victim's body with
21:07
Speaker 1: a sword, now claiming he has murdered thirty two people.
21:12
Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Ellen colorin Crimaline dot Com investigative Reporter,
21:16
Speaker 1: where you can find this in all other breaking crime
21:19
Speaker 1: injustice news, Ellen, who is this guy? Well, like you said, Nancy,
21:24
Speaker 1: this guy Nicholas Gibson. He has a long, long criminal history.
21:28
Speaker 1: He's been in prison more often than he's been out
21:30
Speaker 1: since since there two thousand and he has flown under
21:34
Speaker 1: the radar of law enforcement, living in multiple states, claiming
21:38
Speaker 1: to be from New Zealand, claiming to have a fine
21:41
Speaker 1: arts degree from a school in Illinois and now just
21:44
Speaker 1: last month, he is accused and confessed to murdering a
21:49
Speaker 1: man in their very nice Miami Beach condominium apartment building
21:55
Speaker 1: with the gad in front. And he supposedly was living
21:59
Speaker 1: with this man as a home health aide, but he
22:03
Speaker 1: did anything but help him. Take a Listen to our
22:05
Speaker 1: friend Jesse Palmer at Daily MELTV Nicholas Gibson as a
22:08
Speaker 1: convicted sex offender who claims to have left the trail
22:11
Speaker 1: of bodies across the US since he was just twelve
22:14
Speaker 1: years old. His shocking admission comes after his arrest for
22:17
Speaker 1: hacking a seventy seven year old man to death allegedly
22:21
Speaker 1: with a samurai sword in Florida and Crusoe a neighbor's
22:27
Speaker 1: description of the horrific scene inside the apartment complex where
22:31
Speaker 1: seventy seven year old Eric Stoker's body was found in April,
22:34
Speaker 1: ten days after he was allegedly murdered by his apparent
22:37
Speaker 1: healthcare aid and companion, identified as thirty two year old
22:41
Speaker 1: Nicholas Gibson. According to investigators, Gibson allegedly butchered his victim,
22:46
Speaker 1: with a samurai sword, stooles credit card and fled to
22:49
Speaker 1: New York. Two weeks ago, authorities tracked down and arrested
22:53
Speaker 1: Nicholas Gibson on a subway platform. It was after that
22:57
Speaker 1: arrest that authorities stitched together a pattern in the unravel
23:00
Speaker 1: the Tapestry of Terror and capture of a possible serial killer.
23:04
Speaker 1: Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Professor Forensics,
23:08
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet
23:12
Speaker 1: on Amazon, Jesscott, do you believe this guy, thirty two
23:17
Speaker 1: year old Nicholas Gibson, meets the profile of a serial killer? Yeah,
23:21
Speaker 1: quite possibly, Nancy. This guy's drifted all over the country. Look,
23:26
Speaker 1: it's documented that he started out as an offender early
23:30
Speaker 1: on in his life, and I mean early. We're talking
23:33
Speaker 1: thirteen years old, and they're having trouble tracing back his
23:36
Speaker 1: origins prior to that. And some of the most successful,
23:40
Speaker 1: I hate to use that word efficient serial killers in
23:45
Speaker 1: our country's history have been those that have drifted about.
23:48
Speaker 1: We can name them one after one from state to state.
23:52
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons it's so easy to slip
23:54
Speaker 1: under the radar is because you just vanish after you
23:58
Speaker 1: have done what you were doing in that particular location.
24:01
Speaker 1: To Ashley Wilcot, juvenile judge, lawyer anchor. You can find
24:05
Speaker 1: her at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Ask you what about it?
24:08
Speaker 1: Does this guy, thirty two year old Nicholas Gibson fit
24:12
Speaker 1: the profile of a serial killer? See does to me?
24:15
Speaker 1: But let's back it up, Nancy, you heard it thirteen
24:17
Speaker 1: he's accused of raping someone. Let me tell you right now,
24:19
Speaker 1: if I have a juvenile thirteen twelve come in front
24:22
Speaker 1: of me accused of raping someone a game off. That
24:26
Speaker 1: is not a typical crime I see of a juvenile
24:29
Speaker 1: that age at all. He should have had all kinds
24:32
Speaker 1: of testing and rehab and honestly looked at as a
24:36
Speaker 1: potential threat moving forward into adulthood, because that is a
24:40
Speaker 1: huge red flag. He's got issues. So let's follow up
24:43
Speaker 1: on that. Ellen klaurin crimalline dot com investigative reporter. What
24:47
Speaker 1: do we know about his record? Nancy? We know that
24:50
Speaker 1: he has an extremely long criminal record dating back to
24:53
Speaker 1: when he was a child. He served as a juvenile
24:56
Speaker 1: eight years for a rape, and then he was convicted
25:01
Speaker 1: of rape again later and he served only half the
25:06
Speaker 1: time that he didn't his original sectence, and he had
25:08
Speaker 1: only he did not disclose that he was a sexy
25:12
Speaker 1: succor on multiple occasions humorous for respire charges related to
25:16
Speaker 1: concealing that. And he had just got knock to jail
25:19
Speaker 1: again and no remember of twenty and eighteen just months
25:23
Speaker 1: before he killed Eric Sucker. So too, doctor Jolie Silva,
25:27
Speaker 1: clinical and forensic psychologist, does he made the profile of
25:30
Speaker 1: a serial killer. So from what we know, you know, um,
25:34
Speaker 1: based on his admission of this one murder in Miami,
25:38
Speaker 1: all of the other factors that we know about him,
25:41
Speaker 1: that he has traveled around the country, that he is
25:44
Speaker 1: a vagrant lifestyle, that he has a history of rape,
25:48
Speaker 1: which is a violent offense, dating back to to when
25:52
Speaker 1: he's thirteen years old. Um, it's it's quite possible that
25:55
Speaker 1: that he that he is a serial killer given those factors,
25:59
Speaker 1: because those are number of risk factors that would indicate
26:02
Speaker 1: he could do something like that. I agree with you,
26:04
Speaker 1: doctor Silva, jump in, Yeah, this is actually I'm so
26:07
Speaker 1: sorry to do this too, but I just have to
26:09
Speaker 1: add this keep in mind, especially as a juvenile, one
26:11
Speaker 1: of the things I can order psychological evaluations, and the
26:14
Speaker 1: benefit of that is to see what their predisposition is,
26:18
Speaker 1: if they have any diagnoses, anything that may indicate, yes,
26:22
Speaker 1: something some switches off in the brain that could be
26:26
Speaker 1: resulting in them being a serial killer. Yeah, I mean,
26:29
Speaker 1: from what I know of serial killers. To Joseph Scott Morgan,
26:33
Speaker 1: they one of the classic signs. To start with that,
26:36
Speaker 1: one of the classic signs of a serial killer, a
26:39
Speaker 1: textbook indicator, is that they begin offending at a very
26:44
Speaker 1: young age, killing pets, killing neighborhood animals, torturing even insects,
26:50
Speaker 1: and taking great joy in it. Then they seem to
26:53
Speaker 1: graduate to humans. Right now, we know investigators in three
26:56
Speaker 1: states are currently searching through coal cases missing person's reports
27:01
Speaker 1: to determine whether this guy, Nicholas Gibson's crimes are real
27:06
Speaker 1: or are they nothing more meaning to waste police time
27:11
Speaker 1: and make him famous or should I say infamous? We
27:15
Speaker 1: know that Gibson has admitted to killing Eric Stalker, at
27:20
Speaker 1: first with his bare hands, as he likes to brag,
27:23
Speaker 1: and then with quote a big sword. Now, what are
27:26
Speaker 1: these claims reveal about the mindset of Nicholas Gibson. Joe Scott, Well,
27:33
Speaker 1: I think that any of these claims that he has
27:36
Speaker 1: made could have been something that just you know, that
27:39
Speaker 1: he read in the newspaper at some point in time.
27:42
Speaker 1: You have to factor that in. I was peripherally involved
27:45
Speaker 1: with the Henry Lee Lucas serial killings. He came to
27:49
Speaker 1: visit us in Louisiana the early part of my career
27:52
Speaker 1: and claimed that he had killed people all over the place.
27:55
Speaker 1: Him and his partner had wandered around the country. And
27:57
Speaker 1: some of those claims didn't didn't pan out. He was
28:01
Speaker 1: just lying about what he did to attract attention and
28:04
Speaker 1: also to get a break from prison. And that might
28:07
Speaker 1: be the case with this guy, but he does have
28:10
Speaker 1: specific knowledge about some things. At this point, at least,
28:13
Speaker 1: it's going to be up to the police to marry
28:15
Speaker 1: up the timeline the events. And also one major factor here, Nancy,
28:19
Speaker 1: it's going to be the methodology that he employed, and
28:23
Speaker 1: that's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.
28:26
Speaker 1: I don't know what you mean methodology he employed. Well,
28:28
Speaker 1: what we're talking about is how did he actually go
28:30
Speaker 1: about killing these people? This one gentleman down in Florida
28:34
Speaker 1: that he admits to have taken his life. At first,
28:37
Speaker 1: he says, I killed him with my bare hands. Well
28:39
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Did you beat him to death
28:41
Speaker 1: or did you strangle him? And then this thing he applies,
28:45
Speaker 1: I used a big sword to take apart the body.
28:48
Speaker 1: You know, that's a lot of work. Does he work
28:51
Speaker 1: with weapons that he shows up with or does he
28:53
Speaker 1: use what are referred to as weapons of convenience? And
28:57
Speaker 1: so that's going to be something. It all goes to
28:59
Speaker 1: this pre sure that is painted about these individuals, and
29:02
Speaker 1: that's one of the ways that investigators can kind of
29:05
Speaker 1: profile this individual and see if he applies the same
29:09
Speaker 1: methodologies in each one of these cases. Crime Stories with
29:30
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace thirty two year old Nicholas Gibson. I, Nancy Grace,
29:36
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
29:38
Speaker 1: Who is this guy? A self profess serial killer admits
29:42
Speaker 1: to murdering a victim and cutting up the victim's body
29:46
Speaker 1: with a sword, now claiming he has murdered thirty two
29:51
Speaker 1: people for one thing. We're trying to determine whether he's
29:54
Speaker 1: telling the truth. There's a mystery death see Pahuka twenty
29:59
Speaker 1: seven years old. A gorgeous Finnish woman was found drowned
30:02
Speaker 1: in Biscay Bay. In Florida and autopsy was inconclusive. But
30:07
Speaker 1: this guy, thirty two year old Nicholas Gibson tells cops
30:10
Speaker 1: he killed her. What about that Alan Kilaurin. That's right, Nancy.
30:15
Speaker 1: He has indicated that he is responsible for that unsolved death. However,
30:20
Speaker 1: authorities believed at a time that se died he was
30:25
Speaker 1: still in jail, So we're not sure if that claim
30:27
Speaker 1: can be trusted or anything that he's saying can be trusted. Well,
30:31
Speaker 1: he also, yeah, I agree, you know you can't. Prison
30:33
Speaker 1: records don't lie. Aka. He also tells detectives that after
30:37
Speaker 1: his release from jail, he killed a Russian man in
30:40
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay before slicing the throat of an African American
30:45
Speaker 1: man he smoked pot with in Compton, California. That's quite
30:48
Speaker 1: a bit of zigzagut across the country. He claims he
30:51
Speaker 1: used the same knife as in the Compton killing to
30:54
Speaker 1: murder a homeless man in Key West, his alleged fifth victim.
31:00
Speaker 1: He says he murdered, as he describes penultimate victim, a
31:05
Speaker 1: female tourist, by drowning her in biscaying bait. The one
31:08
Speaker 1: we just referred to. See now, one of these Investigators
31:12
Speaker 1: from the Miami Beach Police Department remembered a similar case
31:17
Speaker 1: that same year, where they found a victim along a seawall.
31:21
Speaker 1: His criminal history suggests he's been behind bars when that
31:24
Speaker 1: body was found, but we don't know how long the
31:28
Speaker 1: body had been there. For instance, in Stalker's case, the
31:32
Speaker 1: man he was living with the decomposing body was found
31:35
Speaker 1: after neighbors reported the odor. We don't know how long
31:40
Speaker 1: he had been dead inside that home. We also know
31:43
Speaker 1: he's a tattoo artist. Sources say he was living with
31:47
Speaker 1: Stalker and mutilated him. Mutilated him. What does that mean
31:52
Speaker 1: to you, Joe Scott Morgan, He didn't just kill him,
31:54
Speaker 1: He mutilated him. Yeah, he did. And so I'm wondering,
31:58
Speaker 1: what's the driver behind this guy and and all these
32:01
Speaker 1: other cases that he's allegedly involved in. Is this something
32:04
Speaker 1: that he's done with these other bodies as well. Let's
32:07
Speaker 1: take a look at this instrument that he used. He's
32:09
Speaker 1: talking about using Nancy a samurai sword. All the cases
32:12
Speaker 1: that we've covered involving dismemberment, I don't ever recall someone
32:16
Speaker 1: using a sword in order to facilitate this. This takes
32:19
Speaker 1: a lot of rage, a lot of anger. It takes
32:21
Speaker 1: It takes specific time because look, I don't want to
32:24
Speaker 1: be too graphic, but it comes down to having to
32:26
Speaker 1: hack this body into pieces. This isn't like sawing a
32:28
Speaker 1: body up. So this is a protracted period of time.
32:32
Speaker 1: When the reporter mentioned that this looked like something out
32:35
Speaker 1: of Miami CSI or whatever that program is called, what
32:38
Speaker 1: she's talking about is that more than likely this scene
32:42
Speaker 1: was just covered and bathed in blood. Up to ash Walcott,
32:46
Speaker 1: we also know this. We know that his mental health
32:50
Speaker 1: spiraled after he's split up with a long time girlfriend
32:54
Speaker 1: named Stephanie, with whom he has a daughter, she step Me.
33:00
Speaker 1: The girlfriend died in twenty seventeen. Now many people believe
33:05
Speaker 1: that drugs were involved, but I would not preclude him
33:08
Speaker 1: murdering her as well, although Ashley even ted Bundy had
33:13
Speaker 1: a girlfriend that he did not harm, but he killed
33:17
Speaker 1: other people. Ashley, that's right. He this, you know, could
33:21
Speaker 1: be just killing strangers versus someone he cares about. Her
33:25
Speaker 1: allegedly cares about two things that I would point out.
33:27
Speaker 1: One is I would absolutely look into her death to
33:31
Speaker 1: ensure that it was not a murder. Number one. Number two,
33:35
Speaker 1: you know, to concern I have a distinction now is
33:37
Speaker 1: did he actually commit these crimes? Is there forensic evidence
33:41
Speaker 1: to Lincoln to these times or is this all fanciful
33:45
Speaker 1: stories that he's come up with and made up, because
33:47
Speaker 1: every killing is very different, which causes me a little
33:52
Speaker 1: bit of thought about did he really do it? Yeah,
33:54
Speaker 1: I'm curious. It fits in perfectly to Joe Scott Morgan,
33:59
Speaker 1: the moving from state to state. He also goes under
34:02
Speaker 1: the name Brent Savage. We have people in multiple states
34:06
Speaker 1: now looking for him because if his drifting past, repeatedly
34:11
Speaker 1: reoffending and feeling to alert authorities as to where he's living,
34:15
Speaker 1: what do you make of it? Is he the real deal?
34:17
Speaker 1: Is he a serial killer? Joe Scott? You know, it's
34:20
Speaker 1: hard to say at this particular time, but here's here's
34:22
Speaker 1: a curious thing, Nancy about this guy. When you're talking
34:26
Speaker 1: about serial killers, generally, they're going to kill within a
34:28
Speaker 1: specific grouping. It'll be an age group, Uh, it'll be
34:32
Speaker 1: a racial group, it'll be a gender group. You know,
34:35
Speaker 1: are they attacking strictly males or you know, sometimes serial
34:39
Speaker 1: killers will encounter members of an opposite gender from what
34:43
Speaker 1: they normally hunt. But that's that's Uh, you know, that's
34:47
Speaker 1: just happenstance many times. So if he's killing both women
34:51
Speaker 1: and men, uh, there are documented cases where you have
34:54
Speaker 1: this commingling, but it's rare. And also the age, the
34:57
Speaker 1: ages of these individuals. Uh, you know, is he kill
35:00
Speaker 1: a group that's say over fifty, over sixty or is
35:04
Speaker 1: he killing people that are young teens? It's really hard
35:07
Speaker 1: to say. I think that what he has said thus far,
35:11
Speaker 1: the police are absolutely positively compelled to examine every jot
35:17
Speaker 1: and tittle that this guy is putting forward. But I
35:19
Speaker 1: would do it, you know, I would. I would be
35:21
Speaker 1: dubious about a lot of the statements since he's making.
35:23
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Ryan Krueger at eleven
35:26
Speaker 1: A line. Nicholas Gibson claims he killed a homeless man
35:28
Speaker 1: in Cole County back in nineteen ninety nine. He's confessed
35:31
Speaker 1: to six other killings. Ryan Krueger joins us. Now, Ryan,
35:35
Speaker 1: our authorities here looking into these confessions. Now, yeah, they
35:38
Speaker 1: certainly are. Right now, there are multiple law enforcement agencies
35:41
Speaker 1: looking into their old files see if they have any
35:43
Speaker 1: cases then't match the story that Nicholas Gibson is telling.
35:47
Speaker 1: Listen as the reporter asked Gibson about his first murder.
35:53
Speaker 1: Now we can confirm Gibson has told investigators that first
35:57
Speaker 1: killing have been right here in the Metro. He claims
36:00
Speaker 1: he hit a homeless man and a head with a
36:01
Speaker 1: brick and left his body in the woods of Cobb County.
36:04
Speaker 1: In the twenty years since, Gibson has been in and
36:07
Speaker 1: out of jail, including two prisons Dints and Georgia for
36:10
Speaker 1: failing to a register as a sex offender. At age thirteen,
36:14
Speaker 1: he was convicted of rape in Illinois spent seven years
36:16
Speaker 1: in Jubie to Joe Scott, do you believe there will
36:19
Speaker 1: be other bodies in other murder charges? Well, what I
36:23
Speaker 1: do believe is that this guy will continue to throw
36:25
Speaker 1: up names. One of the things you notice what he said,
36:27
Speaker 1: this guy has spent a lot of time in prison.
36:31
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is when you're in prison
36:33
Speaker 1: and you have a lot of time on your hands,
36:35
Speaker 1: you have a lot of time to read. There's no
36:36
Speaker 1: telling what are the cases this guy has filed away
36:39
Speaker 1: in his mind. Now, whether or not he was involved
36:41
Speaker 1: in them, I don't know. But before before they can
36:44
Speaker 1: charge the Scott, they're going to have to show connectivity first,
36:48
Speaker 1: geographically and second chronologically, can they put him in these
36:52
Speaker 1: locations with these bodies? And was he a free person
36:54
Speaker 1: at that particular time to Dodge Michelle d Pre, medical examiner,
36:58
Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Since his body has
37:01
Speaker 1: been mutilated, will be really be able to determine the
37:05
Speaker 1: cod cause of death on Eric Stoker? Of course, it
37:07
Speaker 1: depends on the amount of body. That also depends on
37:12
Speaker 1: the injury. Certainly, if a samurai sword was used, yes,
37:15
Speaker 1: we can tell that there was a sharp force injury.
37:18
Speaker 1: If there was triangulation, that may be more difficult. We
37:21
Speaker 1: wait as the investigation goes on. If you have information,
37:25
Speaker 1: please call Miami Beach PD. Three zero five six seven
37:30
Speaker 1: three seven nine hundred three zero five six seven three
37:34
Speaker 1: seven nine hundred. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,