Latest / DEEP INSIGHT / Is the return of 62 Indigenous cultural belongings a big step for truth and reconciliation_

Transcript

Is the return of 62 Indigenous cultural belongings a big step for truth and reconciliation_ · DEEP INSIGHT

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: For more on these sixty two cultural objects, we have
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: reached Cynthia Wellesley Esquima. She is the Chair of the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Truth and Reconciliation at Lakehead University and the governing circle
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: for the National Center for Truth and Reconciliation. Chair Cynthia,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: We thank you.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you how you're feeling.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: On this day where these sixty two items are being
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: returned home.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm a bit conflicted to be honest with you.
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: As a chair of the National Center and working with
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: survivors on a regular basis, it reminds me that the
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: Catholic Church and the many entities forty eight entities were
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: actually forgiven for some of the resources that they were
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: actually encouraged to raise residential school survivors. So calling this
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: a gift is a bit of a stretch for some
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: of us.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: I think that we.
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: Need to take into consideration that it's a very small
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: step forward towards something that I think is equally important,
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: if not more important than that is to actually come
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: back and actually ask ourselves and ask the Catholic Church
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: and the entities that it represents, how do we actually
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: create that reconciliation process when you were able to get
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: out of a commitment before that.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: It's so true, and there is it's bittersweet this moment, certainly,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and I hear that. So then let me ask you
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: on that point, the fact that this is a church
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: to church transaction, for lack of a more elegant word,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: this is not the Vatican giving it back to the
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: government of Canada or giving back these items to the
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: various individual communities that they were stolen from, and for
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: some it's raising concerns.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: It's still in the hands.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Of the church and those representatives of the church to
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: figure out what happens next. So talk to me about
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: how you're feeling on that front.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel well.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: I feel again also the same kind of thing. I
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: think it has to go someplace where where they're protected.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: These are going to be old items and they're going
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: to be they're going to be sensitive to.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Oxygen and all the rest of it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: Not every first nation MEETI and you know what community
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: has the capacity to actually store those things. So I
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: think they should be at the table and they should
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: be part of that agreement as to where those go,
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: how they go back to the first nation communities may
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: teake community in what communities and how they're going to
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: be protected into the future because they are important and
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: probably very sacred items.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you about how big of a step.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: This may be for some in terms of the truth
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and reconciliation process.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Well, I just I don't see it as a big step.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: I just don't. I mean, sixty two items coming back.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's a good thing, but there are thousands of
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: items that were actually taken.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of gold and silver that were taking.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: People lost their lives. If you know the history, you
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: know that this is a big conversation.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: And I think it's important that the people that receive
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: these items and you'll be celebrated.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: I think that that's an important thing.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: I'm not suggesting that we take that away from them,
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: because having these items come back to these people is
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: an important thing. But I don't want Canadians to lose
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: sight of the fact that there is a larger conversation
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: in unfinished business here that also to be dealt with.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: And I think the church has an obligation and a
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: responsibility to the survivors who are still with us to
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: actually have that conversation not too far into the future.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate what you're saying, Cynthia, because I think
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: this is a perspective that many are feeling, and perhaps
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: not everyone is voicing because they don't want to on
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: a day that some might be celebrating. So I appreciate
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: your candidness in this moment. What would make today's event
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: feel more complete or more more meaningful.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: A declaration from the Catholic Church that they that this
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: is just a beginning of a conversation that's going to
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: happen into the future that is going to be inclusive
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: of indigenous peoples across Canada, and it's going and more
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: things are going to be coming right behind this. It's
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: not going to be the only thing for another ten years.
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: That there'll be more coming. But more importantly, that they
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: acknowledge the survivors and the intergenerational survivors of any residential schools.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: And this goes all the way back to nineteen twenty
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: five when Indian residential schools were actively being utilized and
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: also Indian hospitals. So there are people that are still
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: alive that remember that and we're part of that experience,
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: and I think that they'd like to hear a little
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: bit more than the return of these objects. And also,
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: I think a better word than gift, because it is
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: a repatriation act that is not necessarily a gift, that
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: they were taken and they are being returned.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just stunned in this moment because what you're saying
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: resonates so powerfully in that.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: There is so much more work to be done.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: And I wonder for some if they would say, well, look,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: this is how we get there. This is how we
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: get to the truth and reconciliation, one tiny, small incremental
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: development at a time. Maybe there won't be massive declarations,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: but slowly and subtly, this.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Is how we get there. What do you think of
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: that argument?
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: Well, I would say that we have the Truth and
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: Reconciliation Commission wrapped its work in twenty fifteen. It is
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: now twenty almost twenty twenty six. We have to do
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: bigger steps than that. I think that we need to
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: do more. I think that we had ninety four costs
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: to action, many of which have not necessarily been addressed.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: The Catholic Church have still not put together their declaration
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: or their covenant. We have not had that signed off,
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: and we have been we had been working on it.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: All of the church is not just the Catholic Church,
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: not just the Catholic entities. So there's a lot of
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: things that are still sort of simmering that need to
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: be addressed. And I think it's a step forward. It's
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: a it's a pope saying yes, I think we need
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: to do something more. It's not ignoring the fact that
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: they were very much a part of this conversation through
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: the residential school period, and I think that that's important,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: but I would like to hold them to account for
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: the rest of it. I know that the Harper government
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: forgave them for the twenty five million that they were
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: supposed to raise for residential school survivors. They forgave them
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: for that, but the people didn't necessarily forgive them for that.
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: If you want to how I'm say, just because the
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: government of Canada said, Okay, you don't have to pant
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean that that reparation hasn't still got hold a
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: lot of significance for residential school survivors and their families
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: who have been deeply, deeply affected by that history.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: And what you're saying highlights the complexity of the situation,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: because not only are we talking about the various First
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Nations communities, the various Innuit and Mayti communities, but also
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: the government of Canada, the individual provinces and territories, and
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: of course the Catholic Church which is its whole own entity,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: and all of this trying to reach the same point.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Now you mentioned the Pope, and I do want to
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: ask you.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: About the Pope, both Pope Francis and Pope Leo. And
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: this is something that I've been considering these past couple
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: of days leading up to today, which is could this
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: move Was this move possible even just the sixty two
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: items because Pope Francis was from Argentina, and is Pope
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Leo supportive because he is a pope from the United States.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: These are two popes of European descent, but from the Americas.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: These are not popes from Europe. And I wonder if
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: that is a significant enough change in culture that has
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: allowed us to have today's moment.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, I would say absolutely.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: In fact, I with the last Pope, I remember saying
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: very clearly and not equivocally, the Pope coming here to
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: visit with First Nation peoples across Canada, Indigenous peoples across
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: Canada would never have happened if it wasn't that pope.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: So I absolutely agree with you that these two popes
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: have made the difference, and they have a totally different attitude.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: They have a much more modern view of this, and
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: they know what happened in the Americas and they're very
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: familiar with it. And they also, I believe that they've
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: actually made that commitment because of that, because they know
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: the history, which a lot of other European popes did not.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Cynthia, Before I let you go, let me ask you again,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: returning to the idea of truth and reconciliation and these
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: items returning and of course they are of massive cultural
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: and historic significance for the various individual ethnic communities from
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: which they came, but for those of us, whether it's
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: mainstream European Canadians or those of us who are immigrants
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: and people of color in this country who want to
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: reconcile and want to be respectful and of peace. Are
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: these part of our shared history and our heritage or
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: is this something that just needs to be acknowledged. It
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: is distinctly indigenous and we need to be respectful of that.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say yes, it is distinctly indigenous.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: And we do need to be respectful of that.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: In this country, Residential schools happened, missing children, murdered women
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: are happening.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: There are so many things.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's a long line of legacy effect in
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: this country. So it is definitely something that is very
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: specifically indigenous, but that does not preclude the fact that
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: we also have to work together. We have to go
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: back to the wampams, the dishes, one spoon, the two
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: row wampum. The foundations of this country are indigenous, and
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: the indigenous population always moved towards harmony.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: The first treaties in this country are peace.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: And friendship, and that should tell you something about how
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: we see the world around us and what our worldview is,
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: and that is inclusive of everyone.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I love it. Let's end it on that note. It is.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: It's been a real pleasure in education speaking with you,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Cynthia Wesley Esquimo, Thank you so much for your time.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Thank you