Latest / Beheaded / Lions and Tigers and Bears... Oh Sh*t! | Roman Colosseum

Transcript

Lions and Tigers and Bears... Oh Sh*t! | Roman Colosseum · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to season three, episode five.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm Megan Moore.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: And it's 2022.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: 2020U, everybody.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I hate that.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: I know.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: I do already.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: It's actually funny.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: We talked about it at work for a few weeks.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: We're like, guys, 2020 you like, oh, that's cool.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: No.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: And then like two weeks later, we're like, I hate this already.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: And now it's the thing people say.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Really?
0:28
SPEAKER_01: I feel the whole like I'm feeling 22.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's been more of a thing.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: I have been off of social media, so I haven't heard that one yet, but I get it.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, despite social media, just like knowing Taylor Swift in general.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Just general pop culture.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: I actually saw a lady at CVS who was wearing a sweatshirt and on the back it said, I'm feeling 22, but it had like the dash 22, like the apostrophe 22.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it had like some New Year's, like, I don't know, that's very trendy of her to all of a sudden just bust out.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, she busted that out really quick.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm really I'm always behind on the pop culture things.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: You know this as listeners, but when Betty White died, I didn't know for like a day.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: And apparently that's really long and you know, social media standards.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: So I was at like a dinner and people were like, okay, everybody, like raise your glasses, and we didn't know what the person was gonna say, and they're like to Betty White.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh my god, did she die?
1:21
SPEAKER_00: And it was like the next day, and they're like, Yeah, yeah, she died yesterday.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm so sorry.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: So I wish I knew, I wish I knew these things.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: I feel like with Betty White, there were so many jokes that were on social media of like her picture, and it'd be like, Don't worry, she hasn't died, but we need to protect this precious gem.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: And it would just like get people like, oh my gosh, like every day.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: It was like always going on.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: And so then when it actually happened, I was like, is it a prank?
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Is it real?
1:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not so it was on the news, and I was like, uh.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: And like anytime you, I mean, not that I'm on Twitter, but I've heard anytime you see something trending on Twitter, you're like, oh, that person died.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: So you know, just it's your natural reaction anytime you see someone's name in the news, especially if they're older.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: She was 17 days away from being 100.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: I know, that's so cool.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, I feel like that's so Betty White of her to be like, oh, you guys thought I was living to 100.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: I heard she even did like a whole spread in people magazine, right?
2:16
SPEAKER_01: I saw it at the grocery store on Saturday, I want to say.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, congratulations on being 100, Betty White.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, at first I saw her face, I was like, oh wow, they already have the magazine out the next day.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: And then I stopped and I was like, oh, it's about her.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Which they're still doing her 100th celebration.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Right.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Um she still is with us in spirit at 100.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, not to be morbid and sad, but my grandma passed the same night.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can't believe that.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Grandma Dorothy.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, she was 92, so you know, it was we were expecting it.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: It was can't say planned, but it was not a surprise.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Over 90.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she wasn't doing so great.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: It was nice because I hadn't seen her in years, and then I saw her on Christmas.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Like five days before.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, but New Year's Eve, and my mom, I I knew she was on a fast decline, and um, I called my mom the next morning to see how she was doing, and she goes, Well, you know, grandma passed last night.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, I'm sorry, mom.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, we knew, you know, it was it was some it was a rough time.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: And then um she goes, and you know Betty White also died.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wait, what?
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Megan's reaction.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, what?
3:32
SPEAKER_01: A grandma I was mentally prepared for.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: We were ready for it, we had made our peace, I got to see her.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: No one was ready for it.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Nobody was ready for Betty White.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I don't know.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, R.I.P.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Dorothy, R.I.P.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Betty White.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: It's funny that Dorothy is also a character in The Golden Girl, so in a way, they're like kindred spirits.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, they're same.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that you made that connection.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: Not the same age.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, grandma was 92.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I meant I meant the same era.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: When you're in your 90s, I think you've got the same age.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: But that makes sense.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's I mean, from what I know of your grandma when you've talked about her, it seemed like she was a very vivacious person who had a big personality and she loved her bourbon.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: She did love her bourbon.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, it's crazy to think she was born in 1929.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: That's wild.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, I posted that picture from our last episode of the guillotine that was used in 1943, and I was just like, think I'm like, this was our grandparents' era.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: So definitely my grandparents were cute, like 18-year-old in the during World War II.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that weird?
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's it's wild.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: But um, anyways, happy new year on that next time.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, happy new year.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Terrible at transitions.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh did you have a good holiday though?
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Good Christmas, good new year.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: I did.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I went back to Denver for a bit.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, uh, but I celebrated New Year's here, which was great.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, here we are in the new year.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: Excited to be here.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was gonna say we should have a glass of bourbon for your grandma, but I think Megan's doing a dry January.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: God help me.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Why do I put myself up to these things?
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I needed, I know, after the holidays, just like little detox.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I thought tonight would, I mean, we're only on what day four, and I was like, I'm gonna crack on podcast night because the first thing we do is pop open a bottle.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: A themed bottle of wine.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: A themed bottle of wine of sorts.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: And um, and you have one tonight, and I I almost we were watching a lot of gory documentaries, and I was like, I need a drink.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: And I almost grabbed the wine, but I have switched to sugar-free ginger beer this month.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: At least you get to hold something that feels like a beer bottle.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't even drink beer, but hey, at least it feels it's actually really good.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: I I've had this.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, normally I like it with vodka just as a Moscow mule, but Me too, same.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, just stick a lime in it.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Only what, 27 days more?
6:01
SPEAKER_00: That's not that much.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Only 27 days sounds like a couple more episodes.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Um I actually recently learned how Blake Lively doesn't drink at all just like by choice.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Really?
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Like ever or like funny, ever.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: But it's funny because Ryan Ryan Reynolds has the aviation gin.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: And then she just came out with her, I think it's called like Betty Cocktail Mixer.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't know, it's like a really overpriced, expensive, pretty looking different cocktail mixers.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: And they have like a ginger beer and like grapefruit and different flavors.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: But um, I didn't know that she didn't drink, so I'm like, oh, that makes sense.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: It kind of goes with the aviation.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: But she did this whole article about um like mocktails, and she's like, of course you can use these as mixers, but they're also really just good to make fancy drinks.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of inspiring because she was talking about how at parties and things, like she's actually the bartender, like she loves to make all the drinks.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: But for herself, she'll make a fancy mocktail, and really she'll use the nice glassware and everything.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: And what she'll even do is you know how when you like salt a rim or something, she'll she'll dip it in like tequila, tequila or gin or something, and then so she's like, alcohol's just a little bit on the flavor, but she's like, But I don't like drinking and getting drunk, so I have these mocktails, but they people don't know they look like real drinks.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Really?
7:18
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of a cool thing.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe next time we'll you can make like real drinks, and I'll make like fancy mock tails and I'll shake it.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, now I feel like an alcoholic.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's my dues.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: That is cool of her.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's funny too because Blake Lily Lively of all people has only played like drunk women on screen.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Like simple favor, gossip girl.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, she's always just like kind of a little bit of a hussy.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's kind of ironic, but that's cool for her in real life.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, inspiring.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you have Italian wine for tonight.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: I do.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: So um, obviously, as you probably know, I went to Trader Joe's to get the wine before I came here tonight.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: And the perfect wine that I really wanted was actually a wine that we've already posted a picture of.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: How embarrassed.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I can't use that same wine and pass it off for another episode.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: So our cosmic crisp Bruno guy um already took the wine I wanted.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: But I picked one tonight that was it's called Epicureo.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: It's a red, just a red blend, and it says primitivo on it, which is like primitive.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: It sounds Italian.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Right?
8:24
SPEAKER_00: And it says a little red horse with a little red skeleton riding the horse.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: I like the skeleton.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of just, yeah, it looks very spooky and ominous and brutal, which I think is the theme of this episode.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: That's a good word for tonight.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: Tonight is the first time we've done an actual place and an actual theme versus an executione.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: It's not really a person.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: There's hundreds of thousands of people in this episode.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: We have to go through hundreds of thousands of people?
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you're gonna be here for every single one.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Number one.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: I was kidding.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna list them off.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna list them off.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: Enjoy our episode.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, no, tonight we're doing something very special.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, we are doing the Roman Coliseum.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: We ate pizza in celebration.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: We ate pizza and uh we had Italian cheeses and salamis and our our Italian red wine.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, but in all seriousness, this was one we've wanted to do for quite a while, and we always assumed there'd be specific victims attached to this one.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, obviously, just like the movie Gladiator, there's got to be some really famous executions from really famous people that we'll know about.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: And when we were starting to research, we're like, actually, because of the status of most of the people in the Coliseum that were executed, we don't know their stories.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't know specific people.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: There are legends, there are myths, there are certain people we're gonna bring up through this episode, but there's not really key historical figures that have died in the Coliseum that we know of.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: If you know of them, by all means tell us.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: Please, Steph, if you're listening, our go-to steph from our Anne Boleyn episode, um, who I think she shared with us that she actually studies Roman history even more so than tutor history, which is a good thing.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: So she'll probably draw the line and be like, even more.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: So we apologize in advance for all of our historical inaccuracies we're about to share.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: No.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: No, we we did we did a lot of studying up, which is why I it was hard to do it sober because my gosh.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: It was gory.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: I was telling Elizabeth this might be our goriest episode yet.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: So get ready.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: If you have children listening, don't don't be that parent.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: Don't give them nightmares.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: We are please.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: We are gonna get into the nitty and the gritty.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: Um but as we were reading about this, and and again, like Elizabeth said, we were trying to find specific people or a person to do a whole episode on, which is our normal cadence.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: And we were just like, damn, there's a lot of ways to die.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: And we were talking, we're like, well, what if just the episode is just the ways that they died?
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Because they were creative and very colorful.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Very colorful, it's all about the dramatics, and obviously this is a show.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: This is yeah, a show.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: It's in a Colosseum.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: You have, you know, 60,000 plus spectators watching this.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: So it isn't just one execution and you're done.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: It isn't just a trial execution, here you are.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a show, it's a masterful piece of art that they put in front of all these people.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: And you know, the term give the people like circus and bread, if you've heard that.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they want their circus, they want their bread.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: That comes from ancient Roman times.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: That comes from like Caesar saying, Hey, everyone's gonna be happy if they have a show and they have some bread.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Like their bread and their because it's a distraction from society, right?
11:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like a distraction from your normal day-to-day.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: So that's what this episode is totally attributed to.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: It's all about the Roman policy.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Also, when you think about it, and all the executions I can think of, the purpose wasn't so much the killing part of it, the purpose was the punishment for the crime, whatever that crime was, whether it was real or false or whatever.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: This is just the execution for the killing.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: Like it really didn't matter what they did.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: They like Elizabeth said, they didn't know who these people were.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: Their crimes were petty for the most part.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the the big splendor of it was the killing.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: It was it was the blood, the gore, the sport of it.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, and it was also to deter other Romans from doing whatever they said these people did.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's a lesson.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so if you throw a bunch of, you know, slaves, thieves, like counterfeiters in the ring, and you're like, these people, you don't want to be them.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't do what they do, and you won't suffer this violent end.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: So it was it was a warning and it was an entertainment spectacle.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Goodness gracious.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, um, how about you start and tell us about the Coliseum?
12:49
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, um, before we start too, really quick, I just wanted to plug one person that we keep coming back to in all of our research.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: We've never really given him credit for that.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: No, and so every we always kind of reference when we get together, like we compare our notes.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: We'll probably watch a couple YouTube videos on the subject and like make sure we're all aligned on the same content.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: But we always come back to the same videos from a fellow named Simon Whistler.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: And if you are a big executionado and you kind of research this stuff on your own, you probably have seen his videos on YouTube.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: He's a British guy who just speaks very in-depth on like a variety of different subjects.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: It's a strong beard, strong beard, like bald head, strong beard, great glasses, great background.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm really impressed by his like YouTube background.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: He's got a pretty classy looking place.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Might be a green screen.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: It looks really good.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: But he also just is so concise with his words.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, he makes everything very just compact and you know, crammed into a 20-minute YouTube video of all these different histories.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, so we've seen him a lot, and it was funny because when I was talking to Megan before today, I was like, hey, like, you have to see this video, Simon Whistler again.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: And we're like, you know, as much as we've researched, like not with him, but done research, you know.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't know it, but we've got to do it.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't know it.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: But we we followed his whole journey and we're like, we've never really given him credit.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: So quick little shout out to Simon Whistler.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: We'll probably tag him in a post related to um our current episode.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: But we've gotten a lot of content from him, and a lot of this does come from him and his uh his He had several great episodes on Coliseum stuff.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Take it away.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Alright, so again, normally we start with kind of the early life of a person.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be the early life of the structure, right?
14:28
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk a little bit about what the Coliseum is, where it came from, all of that.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you've ever been to Rome or, you know, even seen pictures of the Coliseum, you know that it's pretty much like right in the center of Rome.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: It's like right in the downtown.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: And remember, at the time, like this is you know, a couple, like a couple decades AD.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: This is like 60 AD, 70 AD, 80 AD.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: This is early, early Roman times.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: So but remember remember like Rome is still a thriving city.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: This is a large city.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: You don't just get this kind of space out of nowhere.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: So where do they get this space from?
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, where did the Colosseum come from?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: There was actually the Great Fire of Rome, which was in 64 AD.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: This fire lasted for six days and burnt everything pretty much in the city center to a crisp, right?
15:16
SPEAKER_00: And at the time, um, Emperor Nero was the one who was residing over the Roman Empire.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: So Emperor Nero sees this fire and says, Hey, I'm gonna take advantage of the situation.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna take this little land that has burnt down for myself, and I'm gonna create this beautiful lake and garden and pavilion, and it's gonna be my private land just for me to have.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: It's like my Versailles, right?
15:38
SPEAKER_00: So he just has it as his little his little personal garden.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, sooner or later, once Nero is no more, um, and the next uh coup well, he actually went through a string of emperors right after him.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we finally get this emperor named uh Vespasian.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: So Vespasian rises to the throne, he becomes the new emperor, and he sees this little plot of land that Nero had created for himself, and he says, you know, Nero was all about himself, all about his own private lands, his wealth, all about his ego.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: We want this place, this place that he created out of the fires to be about Rome.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: We want it to be about the the citizens.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: So he actually knocked this entire garden lake pavilion thing down, you know, drain the lake, and he says, We're gonna create a giant entertainment venue here that's meant to be a free place for all of Romans to go to to, you know, enjoy some sport, to enjoy some spectacle together.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, so he eventually, in I believe it was 72, which sounds so weird, right?
16:40
SPEAKER_01: I have to interrupt for a second.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: I had the dumbest moment.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm like, tell us embarrassed at myself because I was trying to put these dates into perspective in my mind historical context.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: And so my first go-to is like, let me Google when when was Jesus born?
16:59
SPEAKER_01: And as I'm like typing this out, I stop I'm like, oh god.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know this answer.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: Wait a minute.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Get it.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Assuming he was zero.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, Christ is zero.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: Christ was born year zero.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: I caught myself before I actually searched it, but I've had that moment.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: I've definitely had that moment where I'm like, okay, so Jesus in the grand scheme of thing, I'm like, oh.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: That literally we define time by his birth and death.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, we I think we've all had those moments.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Um and it's weird to say these dates, even, because again, we're so used to four-digit dates.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: Like 1543, 1536.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: So now we're like 70.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: This is year 72.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: So by year 72, uh, again, Emperor Vespasian uh is can is he's on the throne, right?
17:47
SPEAKER_00: He's the one who's ruling all of Rome.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: So he gets this land and he says, I'm gonna create a giant arena here.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna create a big oval amphitheater that's right in the center of Rome, right to the east of the Roman Forum, and this is gonna be where all of Rome comes, so you know, to to celebrate together, to drink together, to eat together, and to to witness a variety of things going on at the Colosseum.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So he's the one that starts it.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Um he didn't actually see it being finished though.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: He passed away in 79 AD, and it was completed in 80 AD by his heir Titus.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: So his 80 AD.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: 80 AD.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: 8080.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Well 80.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: 80 808.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: That sounds so strange.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was completed by his heir Titus.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: So they said, okay, an 80 or 81 is when they uh like held the first.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: I can't I can't say it and look at you with a straight face.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Um but they they erected this giant building and held their first inaugural games.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Um and so just some like a little bit of background on the actual structure, uh, right?
18:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this place is huge.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: This place holds around 80,000 people.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Usually about 50 to 60,000 people were in attendance, but that's I mean a modern day like soccer pitch and modern day football field in America.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Like these are huge arenas, and all of the arenas today are still built around this design.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And we'll get more into like what that means, like how you get a ticket and where you sit and all of that.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: But all of this came from the ancient Roman Coliseum, and it was replicated everywhere once it was erected.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, so anyway, back to kind of again a little bit more about what went into it.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was built by Travertine limestone, uh volcanic rock, which is known as Tough brick-faced concrete.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: It costs roughly around a billion dollars, like today's money, like modern USD, um, to to erect.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: And it is now considered one of the modern wonders of the world.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: And just so you're you know, because I always had this question like, what are the seven wonders of the world?
19:58
SPEAKER_00: So there's the ancient world and then there's the modern world.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: The ancient world, the only one that still stands is the pyramids.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: So that's the only ancient modern of like or wonder of the world from ancient times.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: The current, if you're curious, um, the current seven are Petra, the Great Wall of China, Machu Picchu, the Taj Mahal, Christ the Redeemer, uh, Chichnitsa, and the Coliseum.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: So one of the modern seven-day wonders of the seven-day, you know what I mean?
20:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: Seven wonders of the world.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Made it in seven days and made it in seven days, uh, as is tradition.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so how do they build this for like with a billion dollars?
20:35
SPEAKER_00: Like they didn't tax their people, they didn't get it from fancy benefactors.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: What they did was um around 70 AD, again, these dates, um, the they actually engaged uh in a in a siege of Jerusalem.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: So there's this big Jewish revolt going on, and they sacked Jerusalem, and with all of their plunder, they said, Hey, we're gonna take this plunder and use it to build this new facility, this new stadium.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: Always taking it from the Jews.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: I know.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: So my people helped this become possible.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: It's true, and not only that, but they took the Jewish slaves, like the POWs, I know, to help build it.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Just can't catch a break.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: So they got they took all the Jewish money, they like had all this plunder, they wanted this to become the new symbol of Rome, and then they enslaved about 60,000 uh Jewish slaves and said, Hey, you're gonna help build this now.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: So obviously they used Roman masons, craftsmen, you know, painters, all of that to kind of uh make it look nice and be this really nice establishment, but it was like the pyramids kind of built on the black the backs of slaves.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: So typical in history, right?
21:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, they had these inaugural games finally to showcase their new facility in about 80 or 81 AD, and they killed about 9,000 animals just in that time to kind of reflect here's this new.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: New big uh you know stadium in all of its splendor.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: And one thing that's important to note is when we talk about all these animals, we have to remember that like a lot of these animals are not native to Italy, right?
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Like they're not native to Rome or the Roman Girls.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: They don't have giraffes and safari animals, lions and things just roaming around like the Italian countryside.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think I feel worse for the animals than the people.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Kind of.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: What's wrong with me?
22:27
SPEAKER_01: I feel so bad for these innocent animals.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, it is terrible because I mean they're taken from their homelands, you know, not to get all again like animal rights-y, but they're they're all taken from different parts of the world and they're just shoved into this coliseum where all these professional gladiators are running after them and killing them for fun and for sport.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: Like it is very, very sad.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: But and you have to think about it from a perspective of someone who's just going to the Coliseum for entertainment, right?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm a poor Roman and I just go to Coliseum because it's free, and yeah, I have to sit in the upper deck, the nosebleed seats.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: I get to see these animals that I've never seen before.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: I get to see they think they're monsters.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: They literally think they're just call them beasts.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're beasts.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: They're monsters from all over the over their parts of the world.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: They don't have picture books, they don't have the internet, they don't have anything to tell them like, hey, that's a lion, that's a giraffe, that's a hippopotamus.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Like they just see these giant monsters come in and trample people, and they're like, oh my god.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: It is crazy when you think of it like that.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: So game day was wild.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: Basically, everybody showed up.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Think of like the biggest Super Bowl imaginable.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: And imagine the game day is free, and this is the biggest thing happening in your town.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Of course, you go.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Got a lot out of it.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: They had concessions, they had snacks, they had free wine, they had souvenirs.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: You had to be a little bit more than a lot of things.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I know.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh Elizabeth is like, we can't go any place with her not wanting to get a piece of merch.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: So I'm a I have a problem.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: As we're learning about this, her eyes are just lighting up.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, what kind of merch?
24:03
SPEAKER_00: What kind of merch did you get?
24:04
SPEAKER_01: Was it free merch?
24:05
SPEAKER_01: Did they just did they have like those t-shirt throwers and just like throw stuff into the audience?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: They just had cannons, yeah, that just threw little t-shirts at you, little little togas.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: Little togas, yeah, little loincloths, maybe.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, no, they had little miniature pottery pieces that actually had coins and other prizes inside of the pottery.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: And those were kind of used like raffle tickets.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: And you can put your little gems or what do you call them coins into um for a bigger prize.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: And then they had bigger.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: One of one of the prizes was a spot on an island, which was like a place where they could live.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
24:45
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, yeah, it was like a bigger sweepstakes.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's so funny when we point out these things modern day, we're like, oh, yeah, this is so gimmicky or sweepstakes-y, or like, you know, don't fall for these things.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: It's like these things have been going on since the dawn of time.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: And they're literally branded the every year.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, so kind of going back to the structure of the stadium, if you're trying to visualize this, literally just think of your modern day stadium.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: They even had their sections numbered, mind you, it was in Roman numerals, but it went down from sections to row to rows to seat numbers.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: They were separated by different class tiers.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: So the first level or the first tier was reserved for the elite.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, the emperor had his own very unique box that was completely isolated from everyone else.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, he had the best view in the whole stadium.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: But your first level is going to be your aristoc aristocrats, cats, the odious the cats.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: I knew it.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: You were gonna start singing that.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Aristocrats and first class and you know politicians, diplomats.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to say royalty, I guess.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: I think it was called like the senatorial section.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Literally, yeah, for people of the Senate and of you know, the political party.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, second tier was your middle class.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: This is basically like like uh the Titanic same structure.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Middle tier was your middle class, and those were your merchants and your merceniles.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, kind of like your average Joe, not poor, but you know, not in the first row.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: And then your last row or your last section was the poor people, uh, the servants, the slaves, and the women.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: And the women go up there.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Throw the women with the slaves and the poor people because can I imagine?
26:40
SPEAKER_01: You go to a CDA.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: All the women go up there.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all the poor people go up there.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the women.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: And then the women and the slaves as well.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: It's also like standing room and shitty wooden benches.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: They uh up on the third tier, they were given about 15 inches of space on their bench.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: That is barely half a butt.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Half a butt.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: Half a butt.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: And it was very crammed, it was very rowdy.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and also the third tier was about 15 floors up.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: So they would also I mean, there's no elevators or escalators, they would have to walk up 15 floors.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: So you get a shitty seat, you're with slaves and women, and you have to walk up.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: The women are the worst.
27:21
unknown: The women are the worst.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: And they don't know what's going on in the sport.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: They're just gossiping and chatting and not even talking about the game.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: They don't even know how scoring you.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're drinking watered-down wine and like what the fuck's going on down there?
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh, is that that one gladiator who's super cute?
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Look at his cute little lion hat.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: All genders, all ages attended.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: In fact, they encouraged the young kids to join because, again, it was like a lesson to see how the thieves and the slaves were being treated, and if you are a criminal, this is what's going to happen to you.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: So they actually encouraged the children to come and watch.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Jeez.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, it was very well structured as far as the timing of the day.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: It was, it started on time.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: They would start the day with some light sports question.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Time in this era is just tracked by the sun on like a sundial.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I think like a sundial.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's funny that they're like, it was so well timed, and you're like, by the I think the sun.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Giant sundial in the middle of the arena?
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, where's the sundial?
28:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm like looking through my notes like I have that answer.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: I just think that's always funny when they re- reference things like that in this era.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: You're like, there's no watches, there's no clocks.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Everyone had a wrist watch sundial.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh I would say, but yeah, I would say by the sun.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: It was all very much on time.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And the gladiators were the main event.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: And of course, the main event doesn't come until the end of the day.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: You can't lose interest before the main show even comes on.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: So the beginning of the day was like fun sports.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: They might have their chariot races, they might do, yeah, their um, you know, animal hunting and killing.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: Killing all the animals, the monsters, the beasts.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it wasn't about like early evening, late afternoon, the gladiators came out.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: Of course, it had to be before evening, there was no lights, but they would um, yeah, gladiators were the main events.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: And if you're like, maybe you know the term gladiator, but you're not quite sure what they are.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, they weren't just slaves.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: They in fact turned into like the elite because they were kind of treated like celebrities.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: They actually had a gladiator school.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: So if you're very ambitious, and I'm just thinking like the jocks, you know, these are the beefy.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: These are like hot dudes.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Like pro-athletes.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, these are the pro-athletes, and it was fight to the death.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: A lot of the time.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Not always.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: The emperor could also choose if he wanted them to die or not, and actually it worked out in their favor a lot that they um like granted mercy.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they were granted mercy, but they a lot of times just died from their wounds anyway.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: So that's true.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: But they were the tough, cool guys, and they were treated like celebrities around town because um, I mean, why wouldn't you want to?
29:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, because they're muscly and handsome and they kill everyone.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we also saw, too, this was interesting, and we don't know how true this is, but we saw a couple references saying that like royalty would literally take the sweat of an athlete and put it in like their serums, like their face creams and their lotions, because they wanted they thought it was like an aphrodisiac.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: They thought like women would be attracted if they smelled like the gladiators, so they would put their sweat and their like creams and be like, hey ladies, notice anything different.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, the other thing I forgot to mention too was that they had they had music out also.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: And the music served for several purposes.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, just for the fun of it, they would have different tunes when the gladiators came out and kind of got everyone riled up.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was also used as cues for the stage hands.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: Air quoting stage hands.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: But you know, if it was to release one trap for an animal to come out or open up another door, you know, bring out the prisoners, um, they used the music as different cues.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: So I thought that was interesting.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, like harps and flutes and drums and all the all the good stuff.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the ancient instruments.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, and they actually had a big underground area called um the hypogeum, I think is how you pronounce it.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's where, again, they stored the animals, the gladiators, because they wanted these big dramatic entrances, right?
31:11
SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't just about coming out through tunnels on the side.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: They wanted to like lift you up onto these big platforms.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: So um underneath the Coliseum is again just a series of kind of tunnels and trapdoors and you know, drawstring pulley, like all these crazy things that just are a big like inner workings of the of the underbelly of the Coliseum.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: And that's where, yeah, all the stage hands would be, and that's where you had to do music cues and make sure that everyone was ready for these big dramatic uh entrances up and down these vertical shafts.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: All a show.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: All a big show.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: And this, oh, fun fact too.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: This comes much later, but fun fact, in the 1930s, Mussolini, who we also have Don't say his name.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, we'll get banned, get banned again.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: But um the M word, he who shall not be named, um, he actually uh in the 1930s ordered a big excavation as of the substructure.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: So when you go to Rome now and you see the Coliseum now and you can see all those underworkings, he was one of the ones that led the charge in the 30s to uncover kind of all of that down there so you could see the underbelly.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Super cool.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: So we had light sports in the morning and then the gladiators in the evening.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: So what happened in the middle of the day?
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: You're probably also like, you said this is gonna be your goriest episode ever.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: And so far we're talking about buildings and stone and stadiums.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Because we've had to make sure you're ready.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: The middle of the day was like halftime, and the halftime show was reserved for all the executions.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Duh.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: It normally happened around lunchtime, and again, it was very on schedule.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: So, who is being executed?
32:52
SPEAKER_01: It's a variety of people.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: It is prisoners of wars, it is thieves, it is criminals, it is rapists, it is um anyone who has done wrong by the law.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Also a lot of Christians because again, Rome is not a Christian country at this point.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: They are polytheistic.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: So Christians were um, yeah, a huge number of the victims of executions.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: And if you think about it too, I mean, right, like the the Roman emperor or empire took over what was like the Greek civilization, and the Greeks were also polytheistic, and they believed in multiple gods, and yeah, Zeus was the main god, but they believed in all these others, and like the Roman gods were literally the Greek gods with different names.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: So, again, that was the religion of the time.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: They believed in these gods.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: So if you were Christian and you believed, you know, especially in this era, hello, Christ had just died, you know, they 33 AD roughly.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Good job.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: I know, thank you.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: No, but um uh, you know, so so that was seen as just totally against like what the standard was, right?
33:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like you're like, oh, you believe in Christ, that guy who just died 40 years ago or whatever.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: Probably go get executed in the Coliseum.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: So long Tuesday we're booked, come back on Thursday.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: We got spots on Thursday around 1215.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Right during halftime.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right when you've had your lunch, come witness these gory executions.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna go through the the list of different styles, shall we call it?
34:21
SPEAKER_01: I will start with saying, um, while there were some criteria as to how they chose how they were going to be executed, really it was the judge's choice.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: He could tell them right before they're up for game day of how they're gonna go out.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: So there's a variety to choose from.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, shall you go first, Elizabeth?
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Sure, I'll take it.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Alright, so speaking of Christ, um, one of the biggest ways people died was crucifixion.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: Great transition.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: And usually it was Christians that died this way or slaves.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was a very humiliating way to die.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: And really all of these are humiliating ways to die, right?
35:00
SPEAKER_00: These are not dignified ways or honorable ways to die.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: They want you to be a spectacle.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: They want to shove you in front of, you know, thousands of people and say, look at this, you know, counterfeit or look at this person.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, don't do what they did.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: They want people to laugh at them.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: They want people to laugh at them.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: Throw things.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they want it to be funny, they want it to be a show, they want it to be grow gory and gruesome, and you're entertaining so many people that it has to be something you can see from very far away.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Right?
35:24
SPEAKER_00: It's not up close and personal, like quick little tortures, like this is big.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Quick, quick.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: You know what it is.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: We're not pulling fingernails.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no fingernails or like intestines removed.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: This is like we want sh this is a show.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: And again, this is where it gets really gory, all of these things.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: But so most of you know what crucifixion is, but so we can really dial it up and strip it back to what it is.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: No pun intended, but they would strip you of your clothes.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: They would strip you of your clothes first, so you're completely naked throughout all of this.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you were either nailed or bound to a big cross.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: And usually you had to again lug the cross just like Christ did, like, you know, to wherever the cross was going to go.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: And the cross was roughly like a hundred pounds.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: So you would take the time to lug this cross, you would be bound to it or nailed to it.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: And something I didn't really realize because I think whenever I thought of either the crucifixion story or just crucifixions in general, I always just assumed that you died from the nails in your hands and feet and just like bled out or of starvation or exposure.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: But what kind of happened with a lot of these is because your hands are stretched so far back and your entire weight is being supported by just the nails in your palms, like the the amount of pressure that's across your chest is suffocating.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: So you literally have so much pressure that's just on your chest that not only do your limbs dislocate, right?
36:45
SPEAKER_00: Like your shoulders are now being pulled from their sockets, but the pressure that is just all on your chest is is suffocating, and you can't take full breaths.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people die from just asphyxiation, like you can't breathe anymore.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, so they they did that.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you could also, again, if you didn't die that way, you would either bleed out, you'd have a cardiac collapse, you'd have enough broken limbs to again where you just kind of like fainted.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: I think they called it like a card a cardiovascular hold on, I have that.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: I have the medical term here.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: Was it collapse?
37:16
SPEAKER_01: Um it wasn't collapse, it was a oh, it was.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: Wow, good job.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Cardiovascular collapse just from the pain.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Ugh.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: So you like have a heart attack, kinda.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: You can't even handle the pain.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: And it would take hours sometimes.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's a very slow, excruciating, and again, very colorful way to die because everyone see you can from very far.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: And with some people, they literally did the cross upside down.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the weight is distributed in a different way to where again you probably die faster at that point.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or they would break their legs to put them in more pain and yeah, they would break their limbs sometimes if they weren't dying fast enough.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: They would break their limbs, sometimes stab them in the torso with big long spears.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: It is a nasty business.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, like we've all heard a you know, Christ story and all of that, but the when you think about again, kind of the actual things that happen to the body.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty terrible.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: It's really bad.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: So if it wasn't crucifixion, another way would just be death by sword.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: And this can happen in a few ways.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: The first is the most obvious, which is her favorite beheading.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Beheadings were actually only reserved for Roman citizens.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Fun facts.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: In Elizabeth's words.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Fun facts.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Fun fact.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: So it was seen as a more noble way, and it was a quicker death.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: So they kind of reserved that for their own people.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, eh, you've done your dues, you've given us your taxes, and um, if you were lucky, you would be beheaded.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Um that obviously that's a little bit faster, and maybe not as much of a show, but you know.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: They they they're not terrible.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: They're you know, they give and take a little bit.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: But this is actually a great reason why Saint Peter was crucified, and he was one who was crucified upside down.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Oof, yeah.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: But Saint Paul was beheaded because Saint Paul was a Roman citizen and uh Saint Peter wasn't.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: Makes sense.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that interesting?
39:09
SPEAKER_00: So you wanted to be a Roman citizen because even then you'd have the protection in death.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: Just get citizenship.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: When in doubt, get Roman citizenship.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you'll just be headed.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Be beheaded.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: Be beheaded.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, but a few other ways of dying by sword.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: They could also, it's called ad gladium.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: Adgladium.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Ad gladium is death by sword.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes if there were two criminals to be executed, they would put them both in the arena together, only give one a sword, let them chase around the other guy.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Fair.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: And then that guy would get the sword.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: Or no.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh they would basically like keep whoever won.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: Because the other guy might get the sword from it and kill him.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, whoever won would then just have to fight the next guy.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: And they would just keep doing this until eventually the last one standing was just killed by a hunter.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: So regardless, they were all going to die.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes we just have them chase around each other with swords.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: I bet you too, because I always think about like, what if you were just to try to like crawl out of the arena?
40:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm sure the walls are high enough where you can't draw it.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people will probably just kick you right back down.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: They're like, uh, peasant.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually did read in one place there's like really no accounts of people surviving or getting out of it.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, but even if they were for whatever reason, they survived and they are a miracle, like, you know, gladiator of the movie status.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, they would just sign them up for the next game.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: So if you didn't die that round, you were just gonna eventually die because you can't just keep getting lucky every single time.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: It's like Hunger Games when it's like, okay, you survived the Hunger Games, but now we have the quota quell.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: Now we've got the Mega Bowl.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, damn it.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: You know how hard it was the first time.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh so that's death by sword.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, jeez.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, on another uh fun way to die, um, there's also the classic throne to the beast.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is my favorite.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Right?
41:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, so throne to the monsters, throne to all the safari creatures that come from Africa and are now in your Roman ring.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's a few ways they do this too.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: So, one is they either give you a wooden sword, which doesn't fucking help you, because it's a wooden sword.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: Like it gives you the appearance like you're fighting.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: Sure, yeah.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: To the upper deck, they're like, oh, he's fine, he's got something.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Um but you can either try to defend yourself, you know, against a lion with a wooden sword, um, or they don't give you anything.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: And you just run around until the the animal gets you.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes if they were pressed for time, because right, we're on a schedule.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to get to the gladiators, need to get on soon.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they would just tie you up to a post and the animal would just come out right away and and finish it quick.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: So it really depended on the timing of things of okay, how much time do we have for this person to maybe defend themselves against a giant animal?
41:55
SPEAKER_00: And again, these animals are not small animals.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: They loved big cats, especially.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: So they loved lions, they loved panthers, they loved leopards, they loved fucking scary things with claws and teeth that are gonna run really fast and get you really.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: They also did like boars too, like wild hogs and things with tusks.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they loved bulls, uh, boars, uh yeah, rhinos, anything with tusks.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and they loved like just kind of again, it like giraffes and exotic animals that you wouldn't even see normally because they just loved the like idea of it being this weird monster from another, you know, with teeth getting ripped apart and all that.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, bears were very common too.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: And again, like if you think about the geography of where Rome is, you're getting North African animals, which are like, you know, safari animals, and then you're also getting like things from Germany, like bears and big, like kind of more, you know, Nordic, I guess, animals from the north.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: So you're getting you're getting a variety of big shit that can tear you up and tear you up quick, and you have no defense, again, there's no way out.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: It then what do you even do?
43:04
SPEAKER_01: They would starve the animals too, so that they were hungry.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: Especially hungry.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: And then the soldiers would intimidate them and harass them and get them all riled up on purpose.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: Of course, to go after the poor innocent souls in the middle of the arena.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, and one thing that they did, they had this fun game, and I don't know what they actually called it.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: I have the word.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you do?
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna call it a seesaw.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: It's a peachoria.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: Pechoria.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Petoria.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Pechoria.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: It's a seesaw.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Essentially it's a seesaw.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: You know what a seesaw is, right?
43:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like a, you know, a big piece of lumber that you put it to us, a seesaw.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: That you put on a little uh crux, little focal point, and it's just seesaws back and forth.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: So they would put two like victims that are both bound and they can't get away, and they would just put them both on either side of the seesaw.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: And your goal was to stay on the seesaw.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Saw longer than the other person.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: So while you're both trying to bounce the other person off of the seesaw, and sometimes you'd go as high as like 15 feet in the air, as the as you were doing this, again, the music's playing, right?
44:12
SPEAKER_00: Music releases animals.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: So as you're doing this, animals just slowly creep around you.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: So not only are you trying to, you know, win the game, which is just knocking the other person off the seesaw, this is also very squid games-ish, right?
44:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: But now you have the animals involved, so whoever the first one is to get off the seesaw is the first one to get mauled by an animal.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: Which even if you're the second person, I'm not sure.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: Pretty sure you get mauled by an animal.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, people would place bets, though, on who would die first, or what lion was going to get who, or who would get killed by the biggest lion.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: Like they had all different types of bets that were going on at the same time.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Sports bets.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: How long can they stay on?
44:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: As old as time.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Tale as old as time.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is kind of my favorite one is they would reenact Greek mythology.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: Some drama, some like nice theater, which sounds very um dignified and classical, right?
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they would choose intentionally plays and myths where there's a very gory, gruesome ending for the protagonist.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
45:20
SPEAKER_01: That was the executione who had to not only act, but actually carry out what actually happened.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: So let me give you some examples.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: For for example, um, let me see.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'm I'm flipping through my notes.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: I I have a few examples here.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: These are important.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, Prometheus.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the legend of Prometheus is that he was tied to a giant rock.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: And Zeus every day would come down and pick out his liver in the form of an eagle.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: He was a big bird, and he would come down and he'd pick out his liver and his eyeballs and everything else.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: And it was like Groundhog Day, and Prometheus would just survive it, and then he would have to redo it the next day.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is a great thing to act out.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: Let's tie a guy to a rock and let's train birds of prey to attack their liver.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: To attack their liver, and then pulled out all of their insides while they were tied to a rock.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Um unlike Prometheus, you don't make it to the next day.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: It was a quick ending.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, Orpheus was another one where he was um a mythological character who would charm animals with music.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: Like a little harp.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: He had a little harp.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, the animals came at him, but the guy playing Orpheus was a bit of a side tire because they did not, in fact, get charmed and become his friends.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: They ate him instead.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, they would play out like Hercules, for example, um, just like these different myths and gods, but they would somehow have terrible endings and just die.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: But I just find it hilarious that they would dress them up and, you know, the crowds laughing, and um, another one is King Cellurus was a myth.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: And this guy was standing on top of what's supposed to be Mount Etna, but it's represented as a scaffold that had basically like a trapdoor.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: And it would release him into a cage of animals that they can all watch him get torn apart.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so some like nice theater going on, some, you know, getting to literature a little bit.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't even know if we want to bring this up, but obviously tell us more.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: There is also there's also, again, like uh content warning here.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's also women in the ring, right?
47:36
SPEAKER_00: And you know, and a lot of Greek mythology is Zeus disguised as animals, right?
47:42
SPEAKER_00: Doing creepy things, do does creepy things to women.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: So the Romans thought it'd be fun to reenact those scenes as well.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not even quite literally.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very literally, very graphically in front of an audience who would all laugh and think it's great, and then eventually the woman wouldn't even survive what was being done to her, or they would just slit her throat afterwards anyway.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: Like disgusting.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: So gross.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: That I can't even fathom.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: They used elephants um sorry, not to oh, more animals.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: They used animals in in more ways.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, so another thing that they did was obviously they brought in very big animals, um big big animals being the rhinos, the hippos, and the elephants.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: And the elephant stomping became a very popular one because elephants are so large and they would make them very aggressive and like rile them up.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: And so they would just have these big elephants just stomp all over and trample everything in their path.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: Just crush heads.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: Which honestly, if I'm gonna pick a way to go amongst all of this, maybe that's the fastest.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Really?
48:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I want any of that other stuff.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: Um I would choose.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, let's do that at the end.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: Let's choose our our way to go out at the end.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: After let's hear all of our options first because it might get better.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh, maybe.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: Let's try.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Up next, we have good old-fashioned burning.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: But this isn't your typical kind of burning.
49:01
SPEAKER_01: Sure, if they were short on time, they might tie someone up and just let them go.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: What's the fun of that?
49:07
SPEAKER_01: But you know, we're about the theatrics and the show.
49:10
SPEAKER_01: So, what would be better?
49:11
SPEAKER_01: Let's dress them up in very beautiful, ornate, and colorful costumes, and then soak those costumes in flammable substance, light them on fire, and then force them to dance to the music as they are being burned alive.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: Smart, sexy.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: That was a good one.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: Very fun.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, you can't imagine.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: Here's your highly flammable dress.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: Um go dance for all.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: Another one, actually, I I don't know if you and I discussed this one, Elizabeth.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh oh, okay.
49:41
SPEAKER_01: It gets better.
49:42
SPEAKER_01: Another one I heard of is sometimes they would um, if it did start getting dark, they would um tie people to the to stakes to poles and light them on fire and use them as torches to light up the arena.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: I did see that.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: It got too dark for the gladiators.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you and I did not discuss that, but yeah.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: What the actual you did not warn me enough going into this of what we were gonna be saying.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: I really thought, like, hey, there's gonna be some cool Roman execution stuff we should discuss.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: I this is a lot.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: This is dark.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't even eat.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: Usually, like, I snack when I like do my research.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: I barely ate the cheese.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, usually I'm in high spirits when I research and I'm like, you know, have a little snack or a little this, a little that.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't even eat.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: We didn't even mention the fact that before they were scheduled to be executed, they would just get tortured first.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: They were racked, they were hung by hooks by their hands and weights on their feet.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: Not only like you said, not only were they being hung up, but weights also on their feet to literally stretch them.
50:46
SPEAKER_01: There's a few others though, don't worry.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: So we got just I mean, I this is one one of my least favorites.
50:53
SPEAKER_00: So there was also an option for some of the men.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, because obviously you can imagine they're being held underground, right, in these chambers and they're about to be like be told, hey, you're gonna go out and do all these things.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: Animals are gonna maul you, you're gonna be like killed, you're gonna be blah blah blah.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: Like all these graphic things happening to you.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: She's your own adventure.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: I just imagine them like spinning a wheel of the different ways to die and yeah, ticking around.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, congratulations.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: Please don't be an elephant, please don't be an elephant.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: You're only being burned in flammable clothing today.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: Yay.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, so anyway, uh they did give the men an option, uh, and I believe this was public, right?
51:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this was in private, but they said one considering what else they did, I I would be shocked if it wasn't public.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it was public.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: But they said, Well, men, you have the option between obviously going out there and dying in whatever way we or you think is best, but how about we just make this easy for you and you castrate yourself and you might live.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: So you just quick chop off the balls.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I couldn't.
51:57
SPEAKER_00: Keep them as a souvenir and uh go live the rest of your life.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: As a eunuch.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: And you have to do it yourself.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, not somebody does this to you, you do it to yourself.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: If they did survive, their future days would be as a slave.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because a eunuch, yeah, once you're a eunuch.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: They couldn't even have a fulfilling life if they chose that.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: So, again, choose your own adventure here.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously there were other people that tried to find other ways to make to commit suicide before they got to the ring.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, so there was different accounts of like, I think one time there was 29 different men that had all strangled each other to death, like in the underground caves, which like, how are you what if you're the last one?
52:38
SPEAKER_00: I know if you're the last one, yeah.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: I strangled 28 dudes.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: No one could do me the favor.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: I kind of like that plan because it's not technically suicide, they're not doing it to themselves, but they have a an oath in place that they're all doing it to each other and following through.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: You're doing it as a favor because that's again better than any of these other deaths.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, like, I don't blame those guys.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: People would try and choke on things.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: They'd, you know, I think we saw one account of a guy getting like a toilet sponge.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why they chose to clean it.
53:10
SPEAKER_01: Why also why are they choosing to clean their their toilets?
53:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the fact that they A even have toilets.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: B was good sanitation in Rome.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: Let's not forget they had great waterworks.
53:24
SPEAKER_01: They're being tortured, but yet they give them a sponge to clean their sanitary areas.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: But sure.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, whatever.
53:30
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you try and swallow that and choke on it?
53:31
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so people tried a variety of ways to make sure that they were long gone before they even had to get to the ring.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: Um some were successful, obviously, some were not.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: One guy stuck his head in a wheel and twisted it and broke his neck.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: That's not that bad.
53:46
SPEAKER_01: The guards tried to watch them very closely because obviously no prisoners know show.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: And I wonder if the guards who were supposed to be watching them got penalized for every prisoner that killed himself and then they had to like replace them.
54:02
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, that's a good thought.
54:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't confirm.
54:06
SPEAKER_00: We did hear that the people that were underground trying to, you know, make sure the show was successful.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you fucked up enough and didn't do your job well enough, you could be thrown in the ring.
54:15
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, some incentive to make sure these prisoners were kept in line.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: You worked the concession stand, you like gave some bad change back right there with the elephants.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Couldn't do it.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then if that weren't all bad enough, all these things we talked about.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, one thing, again, Megan talked about how they loved a lot of mythological symbolism and reenacting kind of these, you know, old myth legends.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, but one thing that they would do is once all the gore had been done and all the people had, you know, died in the ring, they they like to reenact the myth of Sharon and Mercury, which are two Roman gods.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, Sharon would go around with like these wings, right?
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Like costumed and go around to all the victims to make sure that they were dead kind of thing.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: And I believe Mercury, what he would do if they weren't dead, was stick them with a red-hot poker to make sure they were dead.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: And um, and then Sharon would like hit them on the head with a hammer or something like that.
55:12
SPEAKER_01: Sharon was representing the spirit who would carry them across what they called the river of hell, which is also Styx, which I learned is what the band is named after.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: I thought they just spelled I thought they spelled Styx like weird to be cool.
55:26
SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize that either.
55:27
SPEAKER_01: Styx is the river of death, and it's supposed to be the river between Earth and the underworld.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh like Hercules.
55:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Sharon was the I guess like the god who would escort them, yeah, ferry them across the river, and yeah, then Mercury would accommodate them as like a support system.
55:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: So instead they just went around and poked them all and made sure they were dead.
55:51
SPEAKER_01: Made sure everyone was dead in the most.
55:52
SPEAKER_01: And cleaned them up and you know, took the corpses off and put it for the gladiators to come on.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: Right.
55:57
SPEAKER_00: They had other attendants helping them and they would clear the battlefield of all of the, you know, dirty old bodies that had just died to make sure the gladiators had a nice clean surface to kill each other on, which is really great.
56:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we had mentioned a lot of the executiones were Christians.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: And when you think about that, I mean, really, they're not they're not thieves, they're not criminals.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: No.
56:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, they were just caught practicing Christianity when it was illegal.
56:22
SPEAKER_01: There was a few people who stood out to me.
56:24
SPEAKER_01: One was Ignatius of Antioch.
56:28
SPEAKER_01: All of these have become martyrs in the Catholic religion.
56:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
56:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you can look them up, but uh look them up when you listen to us, just look it up.
56:36
SPEAKER_01: Google it.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: Um Ignatius, he was thrown to two lions.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: Oof.
56:41
SPEAKER_01: Um Euphem Euphemia, she was tortured first um on the wheel, and then all of this was because she refused to do a sacrifice.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: Like you know because you had to pay tribute to the Roman gods.
56:58
SPEAKER_01: She she refused to to sacrifice something.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she was tortured on the wheel, and then she was wounded by a bear, and they sent a lion on her.
57:10
SPEAKER_01: The lion just licked her wounds, which is kind of creepy.
57:13
SPEAKER_01: And she died from the wounds from the bear.
57:16
SPEAKER_01: Like the lion didn't kill her, but the wounds from the bear killed her.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: That's insane.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: Um and then this was really interesting.
57:23
SPEAKER_01: Perpetua and Felicity.
57:25
SPEAKER_01: Perpetua was a 22-year-old noblewoman.
57:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, she had just had a baby, she was breastfeeding, and then Felicity was her pregnant slave, and they were both African.
57:35
SPEAKER_01: They were not baptized, but they were practicing Christianity.
57:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, they're kind of seen as I didn't even know this existed.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: They were kind of they're kind of seen as saints of the same sex, or like saints of like the LGBQ community, or like because they were like there's some people will say like no, that's not a thing, but others said that they they loved each other and they were like two women and comforted each other while they were in prison together.
58:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
58:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it they're very interesting because Perpetua actually kept a diary while she was imprisoned.
58:12
SPEAKER_01: And most of her diary is talking about how much her boobs hurt because she can't breastfeed, and even though she's being tortured in other ways, she's like breasts though.
58:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she like her diary is mostly about the pain of her, like, you know, weaning off of not being able to feed her baby.
58:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
58:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and then Felicity was pregnant at the time, but she gave birth while in prison.
58:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
58:36
SPEAKER_01: Um they held on to each other while they um, you know, threw them to the beasts.
58:41
SPEAKER_01: That's so scary.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of really good art that depicts a lot of this.
58:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, when we were looking at again a lot of the documentaries and things, like there's some really good about these like characters specifically, but also just of the scenes in general and how graphic they were.
58:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh and you would see all of the the jeering from the audience members and like you know, the emperor kind of like sitting there rallying behind certain gladiators or certain beasts or whatever, and it just shows like just the sheer horror of all of that that went on.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's so funny whenever you hear people like talk about modern day and age and like oh, like look at us as a society, like look at all the the wars and the violence and the this and the that, and you're like, uh, remember the Colosseum?
59:25
SPEAKER_01: Remember what the Romans were up to?
59:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a whole nother level.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think this is kind of like a great like slap in their face, is this whole thing of especially murdering the Christians was intended to be a debacle and laughing at them and like see like how demeaning this is and looking at how they're fools, they're idiots.
59:46
SPEAKER_01: But really, all these Christians became martyrs, yeah, which is just like the greatest revenge is like they are seen as heroes, they are they all these people who I listed and plus more have their own like feast days and the Catholic religion.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_01: And um, so with that, it's like Christians are now seen as these martyrs, and with the decline of the Roman Empire at the Coliseum declined with it.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, can't imagine why people just didn't want to continue that era, but it eventually um became yesterday's news to show up to game day.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_00: It did, yeah.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_00: The Roman Empire fell around 460 AD.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, they had a good 500-year reign.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, not not too shabby.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, America's younger.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh, you know, so so it had all of its glory.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: Again, the Colosseum was very much a symbol of the heyday that they had.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but after the fall of Rome, it really just became they they they built the chapel in there.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: They had a cemetery.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh, um makes sense.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: I know.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_00: Um they they had little just like workshops and it was places where people could kind of live and work, and like community was starting to just become um, you know, a little bit tighter during the midieval era.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_00: And even in modern day, a lot of people go to the Coliseum with the intention of like, hey, like corporal and capital punishment is not okay anymore.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like weirdly transformed into this symbol of like, yeah, this is where all this violence was, but this is also how we can remember like what's not acceptable as a society, you know, and how we can't just like punish people to death for things that they've done.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's like a very controversial thing still, even in this day and age, but that like they people still do big kind of I don't won't say protests, but just big demonstrations like in the Coliseum modern day.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: What about PETA?
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: I feel like PETA should be all over.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_00: They should be.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_00: They're like, remember those 9,000 animals?
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: I think they literally said too in some of the research that I did.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and who knows because this was so long ago, but they said certain species of animals became extinct.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_00: So who knows what other species they had in there?
1:01:49
SPEAKER_00: Things we don't even know about.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, we would love to hear from you if you have been to the Coliseum.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, Elizabeth has seen it.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_00: I have.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_00: I've been like to the outside for whatever reason that I went like over the Easter weekend or something and they weren't doing any tours of the inside.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's a thing.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, but I haven't seen the inside, but it's very beautiful outside.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_00: It's still huge.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_00: You probably feel weird about the crucifixion thing still.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's why.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: It was actually, I think I've said this story before, maybe on this podcast, but uh the weekend I went to Rome, I couldn't go to see the Sistine Chapel because it's closed on Easter Sunday.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't see a terrible time.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I didn't know.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I thought it was the coolest time to go.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_00: I was like, ooh, like Easter, like uh you know, in the Vatican and in Rome, and you actually a lot of stuff shut down.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: You can't really see a lot of it.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_00: So don't go then.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, tell us about your experiences.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: If you've been on the inside, if you've taken the tours, um, you know, seen the sub uh section of it that Moussolini dug up.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_01: Don't say his name.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_01: Um and I also want to hear how uh if you had to choose a way to die.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_01: So Elizabeth, what would be your um you said you said elephants?
1:03:00
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:03:01
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, yeah.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, okay.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about crucifixion, swords, throne to beasts, the seesaw thing, Greek mythology, thank you, not.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_00: Um I could be a great actress.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: Mmm, you watch your words, honey.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't think you want some of that acting.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh burning, self-castration, suicide.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I you know elephant stomping.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, the elephant thing, here's the thing.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_00: It'd be scary, right?
1:03:25
SPEAKER_00: Like a huge beast is like trudging at you, but quick.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_01: Maybe if you're lucky.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_01: If I'm lucky.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't survive, you'll just get stabbed eventually.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: By Sharon and Sharon.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_01: Mind you, it's not Sharon's S-H, it's Char Charon.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_01: Charum.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_01: C-H-A-R-O-N.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_01: Sharon.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_01: Sharon's gonna come and stab you and fail to die.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, my strategy would be death by sword by with someone.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, assuming beheading is out, obviously that's so you're not a Roman citizen.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_01: No.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, I would like to be partnered with someone and then make a pack with them and be like, let's just do each other out super quick.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: Like you both stab each other.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you both just run at each other unless they give you one sword, and then you might need a big one.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, they usually give you one sword, is the thing.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you ever have two, but that's a good strategy.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_00: I just feel like you both just like take an end of the sword and you both just like run into each other.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_01: Me being the Hufflepuff, I'll try to make friends with them while in prison and like come up with a game plan together.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_01: That's a good idea.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, what Slytherins do?
1:04:36
SPEAKER_01: Which is kind of like what Gladiator did, right?
1:04:38
SPEAKER_01: Didn't they like agree to form into the circle with their shield?
1:04:42
SPEAKER_01: I oh yeah, yeah.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_01: You tried to create a strategy for them.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, I wish we had that movie to review before this episode.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_01: I haven't seen it in like a couple years.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: It's been a long time.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_00: And I will say, I think okay, so the first movie I ever cried in was Titanic.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_00: I think I mentioned that.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_00: But the first movie I was like shook in was Gladiator.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_00: Mine was Braveheart.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_00: Wait till we talked about it.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I understood Braveheart at the time.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_00: I think like my parents shielded me from gory parts, and I was like, oh, this is a fun movie.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_00: But I remember the scene in Gladiator when he goes up and touches his wife's feet.
1:05:13
unknown: Oh.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: Because she's like being just hanged from there.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that I was like, that I was like so young.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_00: I was like 11.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's trauma too.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_00: And that was like a R-rated movie.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_01: Why are you letting me watch this?
1:05:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh before you get stomped on by elephants.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure I could try to arrange that in some way.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_01: If not.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, if a comet ever comes towards Earth, that's true.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_01: We gotta find you an elephant.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: Before then, do you have any final words?
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: Not today.