Latest / Thanks For Visiting / 279. Make More Money, Honey: Hacking the STR Business Model with Rachel Richards

Transcript

279. Make More Money, Honey: Hacking the STR Business Model with Rachel Richards · Thanks For Visiting

0:00
Hello listeners, welcome back for another great week.
0:02
My name is Sarah Karakaian.
0:04
I'm Annette Grant.
0:04
And together we are--
0:05
Thanks forVisiting.
0:07
All right.
0:07
Let's kick off this episode like we do every week, and that's sharing
0:10
one of you, our loyal listeners who's using our hashtag, #STRShareSunday.
0:15
We'll find you on Instagram, but then we'll share you here
0:17
on the podcast and to our entire email list and get you some love.
0:21
Annette, who are we sharing this week?
0:23
This week, we are sharing @archhouse_wa.
0:27
Again that's @archhouse_wa.
0:30
And this is our first time.
0:32
We've never had an arch house.
0:34
You got to check it out.
0:36
It's hosted by Alex and Erica, and they are just too cute.
0:40
They're both in the graphic design world, and they purchased this 1970s arch house.
0:47
You have to go to their feed, like all the pictures, give them some love.
0:52
It is unique, and special, and just adorable, quite frankly, but
0:58
love that it-- they've just crushed it with the uniqueness of it.
1:03
And then they've done an amazing, amazing rehab on this property.
1:08
I'm just going to say they've probably put blood, sweat, tears, and a lot
1:12
of money into it, but well done.
1:16
You have to look at this place for inspiration.
1:20
I think they've done an interesting job.
1:22
One thing I really want you to see is how they've put the beds in this cabin, how
1:26
they've put a couple of different beds.
1:28
It's a nice way that they designed it.
1:29
I love the before and after pictures, and the arch itself is just amazing.
1:36
Sarah wants to talk about this spot.
1:38
I do.
1:38
Alex and Erica, I see you and this mustard yellow exterior casing,
1:45
and then your mustard yellow sofa, and the painted green beams.
1:50
You can tell they're artists because there is a subtle through line throughout the
1:54
entire property, and I am here for it.
1:58
It is so good.
1:59
And they have some availability this month.
2:02
Check them out.
2:03
Well done.
2:04
I'm going to come and stay there.
2:06
It'sso cute.
2:08
But Sarah, I am-- when we're heading into this episode, this is funny.
2:14
Our guest has an excellent, excellent quote, and she has
2:20
an acronym for the word FAIL.
2:21
It's not her acronym, but first attempt in learning.
2:25
And I want to say, I don't want to tell you guys how many times
2:28
we failed to actually make this episode happen, but we persevered.
2:32
Just to show you some of the behind the scenes on a podcast, I think we had this
2:36
podcast scheduled a minimum of four times.
2:41
On both parties, I think all of us had to cancel at one point in time,
2:44
and then Wi-Fi didn't work, so we had a lot of failed attempts, but Sarah,
2:48
let's talk about our guest today.
2:50
This was so worth it.
2:51
At the age of 27, Rachel Richards quit her job and retired.
2:55
She's now living off of $20,000 a month in passive income, but it wasn't all
3:01
puppy dogs, and roses, and butterflies.
3:03
Rachel is the bestselling author of Money Honey, and Passive
3:06
Income, Aggressive Retirement.
3:08
She built a real estate portfolio of 38 units by the age of 26.
3:12
She's a former financial advisor, has been featured in CNBC,
3:16
Forbes, and Business Insider.
3:17
She makes the topic of money management fun, entertaining, and simple for her
3:20
250,000 plus millennial followers.
3:24
Rachel helps women feel excited, capable, and confident about
3:27
their financial futures.
3:28
And listeners, just wait because Rachel is vulnerable, honest, and is going
3:34
to help you just keep going right now.
3:36
Especially if you're going through something tough,
3:38
this is the episode for you.
3:40
SEGMENT GAP
3:41
Rachel, we have so much to talk about.
3:42
Welcome to the show.
3:44
Thank you so much, Sarah and Annette, for having me.
3:47
And I just have to call you money honey because that's how I know
3:50
you as a money honey, Rachel.
3:51
So let's let our listeners, if they don't know who you are from the social
3:55
media world, let's take it back to you being an author and before you became an
4:00
author, and just let our listeners know why it's important to listen to you today.
4:05
Give us some of your history.
4:06
Aw, thank you.
4:07
Yeah.
4:07
I used to be a financial advisor, and I majored in financial economics, and then
4:14
I didn't want to do that anymore, but I still wanted to help people with money,
4:16
but just in a less like salesy way.
4:19
I'm also very introverted.
4:21
So I decided I could write a book in the comfort of my house and put it out there.
4:26
And at the time, it was just a passion project for me,
4:28
something I felt compelled to do.
4:30
Thought I would lose every cent that I put into it, to be honest with you.
4:34
And then I self-published it, and it took off, and I called it Money Honey, and the
4:37
name has stuck ever since, which I love.
4:40
But I've now written two books.
4:42
I've put out a few courses, programs, have a bigger social media presence,
4:46
and I've invested in a lot of real estate, so that's a little bit about me.
4:50
And let's tell our listeners, Money Honey, the reason you called
4:55
it that is the demographic of people that you were speaking to.
4:59
So let's talk about your age, if you don't mind, when you wrote the book, and
5:04
when you transitioned into real estate.
5:06
I think that really helps paint the picture of your story.
5:09
Yes, absolutely.
5:10
2017 was the year for me.
5:12
I started doing everything in 2017, and I was 24 at the time.
5:18
I can't even keep track now.
5:20
Twenty four.
5:20
Well, you're so old your memory's probably shot now.
5:23
I know, I know.
5:24
Exactly.
5:26
So I purchased my first duplex that year with my ex-husband, and then
5:31
later that year, I self-published my first book, Money Honey.
5:34
And I focused on growing those passive income streams as much as
5:37
I possibly could because I had that royalty income and that rental income.
5:41
And fast forward about three years, I was able to quit my job and become financially
5:46
independent just two years later, in 2019.
5:49
And I was 27 at the time that I did that.
5:52
And now, I am 31, and I am just living my life.
5:56
Let's go back to that first duplex because the demographics of where you got
6:00
started, I think, are important to share.
6:02
So take us back to that first duplex and what the goal was with that.
6:07
My ex and I had this goal and vision to get to 10,000 a month
6:11
in profits from our real estate.
6:14
And we decided once we did that, we would quit our jobs.
6:17
We would be financially independent because, at the time, our expenses
6:19
were only five or six grand a month.
6:21
So that gave us plenty of buffer to still save, still be very financially secure.
6:25
So that was our goal and why we started doing it.
6:28
We were both living in Louisville, Kentucky at the time, and
6:31
that was a big advantage.
6:32
I can definitely talk about the advantages I had starting out.
6:35
Living in an affordable cash flowing city was a huge advantage.
6:40
And of course, back in 2017, we were getting 3, 4% interest rates, so
6:44
that made it a lot easier to find a cash flowing property as well.
6:48
Our first duplex cost a 100 grand, and I know that the people from
6:52
California listening are going to be like, I can't even buy a parking
6:55
spot for that amount of money.
6:56
But I do know that there are still properties that are 100 grand to this
7:01
day if you look in the right markets.
7:03
And so quickly, just two pieces of advice on that.
7:06
If you do live in an expensive city and you're like, how are these
7:09
people doing this, number one, be comfortable investing out of state.
7:14
Be comfortable being a long-distance landlord.
7:16
It's something I used to be afraid of, but once I moved from Kentucky to
7:19
Colorado, I realized it was way easier to manage my properties from afar than
7:24
it was when I lived 30 minutes from them.
7:26
So that's my first piece of advice.
7:28
And secondly, on that note, is to look for off market deals because
7:32
the MLS, Zillow, they're so saturated right now and so competitive.
7:36
And if you want to find a great deal in this market, you really have to be willing
7:41
to do what no one else is willing to do.
7:43
And that means getting creative and looking off market.
7:45
So that's my little tangent if you live in--
7:47
Thoseare good.
7:48
That's real estate--
7:49
Expensivecity.
7:50
Hottips.
7:50
Episode over.
7:52
Mic drop.
7:53
You just said be comfortable out of state.
7:55
What was the fear when you moved out of state with becoming that long distance
7:59
landlord, and how did you tackle that?
8:02
And I had done both self-managing and having a property manager, and
8:06
my fear was that an emergency would happen and I wouldn't be able to fix
8:12
it or solve it because I wasn't there.
8:13
Like a fire, or a flood.
8:16
Something really bad.
8:18
And I also felt like I wouldn't be able to run my properties as well
8:22
because I wasn't going to be there.
8:24
And I realized that moving away, it forced me to have teams and systems in place.
8:31
Even self-managing from afar became a lot easier for me because I
8:36
had teams and systems in place.
8:38
So I prefer now to not live in the same state that my properties are in.
8:43
There we go.
8:44
Honestly, when your back's against the wall and you have to make it work, in
8:47
so many scenarios, you will be amazed at what you can accomplish for yourself.
8:52
And coming from you and seeing you on the other side now with so much success,
8:57
I think our listeners can be like, okay, I know that could be true for me too.
9:01
And I think it's important before we were-- fast forward really quickly, to let
9:05
our listeners know, you are getting ready to open your first short-term rental, but
9:09
I still want to start back at that duplex.
9:13
The duplex and the book, you're starting to make some cashflow, but
9:18
I know you got up to, I think, what, 30, 40 doors at one point in time?
9:23
Yeah.Thirty eight units.
9:24
Ooh.
9:24
So just fast track us.
9:26
Take us through the money honey Rachel timeline on building your
9:29
portfolio, if you don't mind.
9:31
Absolutely.
9:32
My whole tagline, what I'm known for is that I can scale quickly.
9:38
Um, and anyone can buy a lot of properties quickly, but I bought
9:40
quality properties and really created a very, very strong portfolio.
9:45
So in under three years, I went from zero to 38 doors.
9:49
My ex and I had two single family houses already that we had purchased with
9:53
his VA loan, and that were intended to just be our primary residences.
9:57
So I don't really count those because we weren't purchasing them
9:59
intentionally, but they did later become two rental properties.
10:03
Then we have that duplex.
10:04
And then the next three properties we bought were all boarding houses.
10:08
So basically, I saw this property on the market in Louisville, Kentucky,
10:15
and you are familiar with the 1% rule.
10:17
I'll restate it for anyone listening who's new.
10:20
The 1% rule states that a property should rent for 1% of the list price.
10:25
So a 700,000 property ideally should bring in 7k a month in rent revenue.
10:32
So I saw this property listed for 430 grand.
10:35
It was a fourplex in Louisville, Kentucky.
10:37
According to the 1% rule, it should have been bringing in 4,500 a month in rent.
10:42
This property was bringing in 7,600 dollars a month, and it was not an Airbnb.
10:48
And I was like, this must be a typo because how is this happening?
10:54
So I called up the list agent and they were like, no, this is real.
10:56
Come down, and we'll show you how this works.
10:58
And that's when we were introduced to the boarding house model.
11:01
So basically, instead of renting out each unit to a tenant, the sellers,
11:05
the owners of this property were renting out each bedroom individually,
11:09
and there were 12 bedrooms total in this house, this huge, huge fourplex.
11:14
So they had 12 tenants, 12 separate leases.
11:17
Every bedroom was furnished and independently leased, and tenants shared
11:21
common areas like kitchens and bathrooms.
11:24
And the best part of this is that it was a true win-win for both the tenants and us.
11:32
The tenants are only paying 580, $600 a month to have a fully furnished bedroom.
11:39
And that included utilities and Wi-Fi.
11:42
So it was just a flat fee.
11:43
It was the most affordable housing, and every city needs affordable housing.
11:47
And then us on the other hand, this property has now become a
11:50
cash cow because it's independently leased and there's so many tenants.
11:53
So we were making a lot of money.
11:55
We were providing affordable housing.
11:57
It just made so much sense.
11:58
So we bought that immediately.
12:00
Where does one find a lead who wants that housing?
12:03
Is it the typical places that you were finding people who'd wanted to live in
12:07
that way, or how are you finding them?
12:09
These boarding houses were all near downtown Louisville, so they were
12:13
all near public transportation.
12:15
And most of our tenants were blue collar workers, and they worked manual jobs.
12:20
Laborers, forklift drivers, stuff like that.
12:23
We didn't really have travel nurses or travel doctors.
12:25
Maybe we had one in the three years that we did it.
12:28
It was just guys that needed a clean, safe, easy, cheap place to live.
12:33
And what was really cool is a lot of our tenants told us-- there's a
12:37
lot of boarding houses in cities.
12:38
Even if you don't realize, it's a thing it is.
12:41
And they were like, most of these other boarding houses, they're
12:43
slumlords, and they're gross, and they're not in good condition.
12:47
And they were like, you have the best, cleanest, and nicest
12:49
boarding house we've ever seen.
12:51
And we would have a waiting list of people for this place.
12:55
I did not have enough time to return the calls that we were getting.
12:59
So my vacancy between tenants, less than 24 hours.
13:02
Let's work out--
13:02
Right now, everyone is running to change all of their rentals into boarding houses.
13:06
Let's dig in a little bit here.
13:09
For these boarding houses, are they long-term leases, or are they mid-term?
13:14
How would you sign a lease for these tenants?
13:17
Great question.
13:18
They were medium-term leases.
13:21
And when we bought the property from the owner, we were like, this
13:25
is clearly working really well, so we're not going to change anything.
13:27
We're going to do exactly what you were doing.
13:28
Clearly, you had this system down.
13:30
So they would start off tenants on a 12-week lease, and then
13:34
it would automatically roll into a week-to-week lease.
13:36
Week-to-week?
13:37
Yeah, week-to-week.
13:38
So actually, tenants paid rent weekly, and it was 140 or $150 a week.
13:44
Okay.
13:45
This property, were you self-managing it, or did you have a management team to help?
13:49
We self-managed until we got to about 26 units.
13:53
So I think once we bought the second boarding house, that's when
13:56
we hired a property manager, which we made a big mistake doing that.
14:01
The week-to-week seems like a lot to manage though.
14:04
The whole boarding house is a lot to manage.
14:06
It's one of the least passive ways to invest in real estate.
14:10
And I'm glad you said that because I want to be upfront about that.
14:13
Typically, if you can make more money on a property, it's
14:15
because you're doing more work.
14:17
Short-term rentals, you're making more money, and you're doing more work
14:20
than you would for a long-term rental.
14:22
And with the boarding houses, it's a lot more work because you have 12 tenants.
14:27
It was like having 12 adult children who would fight over, I
14:31
need to use the laundry, and this guy ate my food out of the fridge.
14:34
And it was such a pain.
14:36
I was wondering about those types of friction between the guests.
14:41
Yeah, but at the time, this worked for us because we didn't have a
14:45
lot of money, but we did have time.
14:47
Not a lot of time either, but we had time, and we were willing to hustle
14:51
and work hard to make this enormous cash flow in the front, knowing that
14:55
we would build our wealth faster.
14:57
Now, at this point, because I do have a lot of money and I'm more
15:00
protective of my time, I would not do a boarding house again.
15:03
I don't want to work.
15:05
And actually, we sold our boarding houses a couple of years ago, which we
15:08
can talk about, but that's how I saw it, is that, yeah, it was a lot more work.
15:12
We were making a lot more money, but that helped us hit our goals faster,
15:16
and it worked for us at that time.
15:17
Yeah, what are you willing to sacrifice to hit where you want to go?
15:20
And so many people, like you said, Rachel, aren't willing to do what you
15:23
need to do, what everyone else is not doing, to get to where you want to go.
15:27
So thanks for being honest about it, but also I was going to say, our
15:29
listeners, they're short term-rental operators, so I think this would be an
15:33
interesting model should they want to pivot or, like you said, really fast
15:36
track to get to where they want to go from a wealth building standpoint.
15:40
That's my last question about it.
15:42
You answered that, yes, there would be those fights about who ate my food.
15:47
So two questions.
15:48
Were they responsible for cleaning, or would you bring
15:51
teams in to do that sporadically?
15:54
They were responsible for keeping their bedroom clean, and we hired cleaners to
15:59
come in once a week or once every other week to clean the common areas like the
16:02
kitchens, bathrooms, lobby, stuff like that, just because it would be hard to
16:06
hold people responsible for that, and we wanted the property to stay clean.
16:11
Another thing I want to mention too before we change topics is that not
16:16
every property is legally permitted or zoned to be a boarding house.
16:21
And that's something we learned later on.
16:23
It didn't mess us up, but it was a big like, oh, my gosh.
16:27
So when you're thinking about operating a property as a boarding
16:29
house, you need to look into how many unrelated people are allowed to
16:35
live under one roof because there's restrictions on that in every city.
16:39
How many different tenants can you have?
16:42
Do you have to have a certain permit or license to operate it as a boarding house?
16:46
Sometimes that's required.
16:47
Do you have to have a certain zoning to operate it as a boarding house?
16:51
So you definitely need to look into all that.
16:52
Even once there's a certain number of people living under one roof, you might
16:56
have to have an automatic sprinkler system, which is a 20,000-dollar
16:59
thing to get that installed.
17:01
So before we say it's the best thing ever, just be aware that not every
17:05
property can do that, and it really depends on the laws in your city.
17:09
Now that makes a lot of sense.
17:10
And the last question I have about the boarding house, where would you advertise?
17:15
You said you had a waiting list.
17:16
So was that word of mouth?
17:18
Are there boarding house-specific websites that I just don't know about?
17:23
Where would you, um, findyour tenants?
17:24
We only did two things, and we didn't need to do more than those two
17:28
things because we got so many calls.
17:30
So we had listings on Craigslist, and we had a for rent sign in the front yard.
17:35
And that's all we did.
17:35
Boom.
17:37
All right.
17:37
I mean, there's such a need for affordable housing, so I really
17:41
recommend looking into the strategy.
17:42
If you're living in an expensive city, you want to make a lot of cash
17:46
flow, you're willing to work harder, and as long as you're allowed to
17:49
run a house that way, I think it's a really underutilized strategy.
17:53
I'm going to say there's also the whole marketplace of young professionals
17:57
who don't mind living this way.
17:59
Um, and like you said, it's expensive markets where they
18:01
can all have their own room.
18:02
They're actually big, beautiful houses, and the other rooms
18:06
are rented individually.
18:07
Yeah, exactly.
18:09
All right.
18:10
You have the duplex, you have the boarding house, and it sounds like
18:15
you had a few more boarding houses.
18:17
Is that correct?
18:18
On this--
18:18
Yeah, we bought another one.
18:20
We bought another boarding house from the same owners a few months later,
18:25
and then I found a huge duplex that was right next to one of the boarding houses.
18:32
It was 3,500 square feet or something.
18:35
And once I saw this duplex, it was just the perfect layout where
18:39
we could do a renovation and turn it into another boarding house.
18:42
And the other thing was it came on the market for 125 grand.
18:47
This was another thing that I was like, this has to be a joke.
18:49
I do want to say here that I had my real estate license in Kentucky,
18:53
and I still do, and it was only for the purposes of me as an investor.
18:58
I didn't have clients or anything, but because I had my real estate license,
19:02
not only was I making commissions on my properties and that helped us
19:05
scale more quickly because that was big chunks of money I was getting, but
19:09
I did have a slight time advantage.
19:11
And I remember this duplex in particular, I had set myself up on a
19:14
search so that anything that met my criteria, once it was listed, I got
19:17
an immediate notification in my email.
19:19
I saw this duplex for 125 grand.
19:22
I was sitting at work in my cubicle, and I was like, there's no way.
19:25
So I took my lunch break early, and I went down to the property, and I let myself in.
19:29
I set up a showing for myself because I could because I was a realtor.
19:32
I could have access.
19:33
And I was on the phone verbally making an offer on that property
19:36
20 minutes after it was listed.
19:38
So if I hadn't had my real estate license, I would not have had that competitive
19:42
edge, competitive advantage, and I wouldn't have bought that property.
19:46
Boom.
19:47
I love it.
19:47
Micdrop.
19:48
No, I'm loving your transparency here because I feel like a lot of people will
19:52
go through their real estate portfolio and their trajectory and leave out
19:56
these key elements of really freaking hard work and some of those advantages
20:02
of like, hey, I was a realtor here.
20:04
I wasn't waiting for this to hit Zillow, where every real estate
20:07
agent in the city or state had seen it, and then get the alert.
20:11
So we just appreciate you giving that transparency.
20:13
And the work that you had to do, you invested in your real estate license
20:17
in order to get that competitive edge.
20:19
AD MARKER
20:20
I have a question for you, Rachel.
20:21
You just said you were at your job.
20:22
So you wrote a book.
20:24
At the same time, I'm assuming you're also growing your social media
20:26
presence, so you're creating content.
20:28
You're leaving lunch to go run around and get-- how did you do that?
20:33
In the most real sense possible, did you just not sleep?
20:36
Were you really tired?
20:37
Obviously, it was worth it, but talk us through, because I know a lot of
20:41
listeners, myself included, can just feel like, oh my gosh, I'm in the thick of it.
20:46
You being on the other side, what would you say to us?
20:50
I'm glad you brought that up, Sarah, because that two, three-year period is
20:54
the hardest I've ever worked in my life.
20:57
And now when I look back, I'm like, I don't know how I did that.
21:00
Because both my ex and I were working full time jobs, 40 to 50 hours a week.
21:04
We were acquiring and managing our units.
21:07
At the time, we had 26 units when we were still self-managing, and I
21:10
was writing my book in the evening.
21:14
I just think it was sheer will, and drive, and determination, and it's
21:19
because I had a really big why.
21:21
I grew up in a household where my parents struggled with money.
21:25
They lived paycheck-to-paycheck.
21:27
We would stress about it as a family all the time.
21:29
We have two cars for four or five drivers, and every night, we had to
21:33
sit down and be like, who's taking which car where, and how are we all
21:36
getting to our after-school activities.
21:37
Every single night.
21:39
And it was really hard to see that.
21:40
And I remember thinking, I don't want to end up like everyone
21:43
else, struggling with money.
21:45
I don't want to have to operate on a strict budget for the rest of my life.
21:48
I don't want to have to say no to a family member who needs my help and
21:53
I can't help them because I'm broke.
21:55
And so I just had that fire and almost this fear of not having enough money
22:01
and being dependent on somebody.
22:03
And fear can either motivate you or paralyze you.
22:06
Luckily for me, it motivated me, and I worked my butt off to achieve
22:10
that financial independence.
22:11
And it didn't come without pain.
22:13
My mental health struggled during that two or three-year period, and
22:16
I do want to caution people against that because that was one of the first
22:21
times I struggled with mental health.
22:23
And I didn't really know what was happening.
22:24
I just knew I didn't feel like myself, but I definitely lost a sense of
22:29
balance because I was hustling so hard.
22:31
And now that I'm on the other end, I'm like, I wouldn't do it any differently
22:34
because I love my life now, but I certainly didn't need to go so hard.
22:38
I could have relaxed a little bit and achieved in five years what I
22:41
achieved in three years and maybe had a little bit more satisfaction,
22:46
and relaxation, and everything.
22:47
So I paid the price, and that's what I did to make it happen.
22:51
Thanks for being so honest about that.
22:52
Yeah.
22:53
That's good.
22:53
Again, something transparent that a lot of people don't share.
22:57
They share the highlight reel of everything, but not the behind, because
23:01
I'm like-- before you were talking about the mental health, I was going
23:04
to say, how many breakdowns, how many tears were shed during this--
23:08
It's not funny,
23:08
No, it'snot, but it's real.
23:11
Life is just 50-50, and sometimes, when it sucks, it's awful.
23:15
And there's nothing else to do but curl in a ball, and let it
23:18
out, and then keep moving forward.
23:20
But no, thank you for sharing that.
23:22
I also appreciate the why.
23:24
I do see that a lot on your social.
23:26
You share where you grew up, the city that you grew up, and how you have leveraged
23:31
that to be an advantage to you now, as it wasn't when you were growing up.
23:36
So love that.
23:37
Thank you.
23:38
I appreciate it.
23:39
Besides the time constraint, the unbalance, and those struggles,
23:43
what other obstacles did you face along the way getting to your goal?
23:49
Oh, gosh.
23:49
Where do I begin?
23:50
It's not even if there's obstacles, but there's also all the mistakes I made,
23:54
which I couldn't even count them up.
23:57
There's so many.
23:59
I mean, I still make mistakes to this day.
24:01
So one of the biggest obstacles or mistakes is when we hired
24:04
our first property manager.
24:06
And this was when we had 26 stores.
24:08
Of course, we were like, we just literally cannot.
24:11
We don't have the time to keep managing as we're building this portfolio.
24:14
So there was this husband and wife couple who had been working for us and doing
24:18
things like maintenance and yard work and sometimes helping our tenants with stuff.
24:22
And they always showed up.
24:24
They worked really hard.
24:25
They were some of the hardest working people I'd ever met.
24:27
So we thought about hiring a property management company, but then we were
24:30
like, you know what, let's hire them, make them employees of our company,
24:33
and make them the property managers.
24:36
We can save some money, and it'll be a win-win.
24:40
It was not a win-win.
24:42
It's a win--
24:42
That's what I would have done.
24:43
Okay, go ahead.
24:44
It was a win-lose.
24:45
They won.
24:46
We lost.
24:47
So one weekend, when my ex went to collect the rent from the on-site
24:50
lockboxes we had, he noticed there was a lot of rent missing, and it wasn't
24:55
just a tenant or two paying late.
24:56
It was a significant amount.
24:58
Come to find out this couple had stolen $6,000 in rental
25:02
income from us that weekend.
25:05
And we found out that they had been squatting in the vacant rooms and units
25:09
on our properties for about a year.
25:11
It was awful.
25:13
It was such a violation of trust.
25:14
These were people that we had had in our personal house
25:17
that we met with every week.
25:18
And to think that they just would sit there week-by-week and
25:21
lie to our faces while stealing money from us, such a violation.
25:25
And I remember thinking, this is it.
25:27
I'm not going to do this anymore.
25:29
I'm going to quit.
25:30
I can't believe this happened.
25:31
And I had my pity party for a few days, and then I was
25:34
like, I'm not going to quit.
25:35
I'm going to keep going.
25:36
But it was a big lesson learned, which is that the cheapest
25:41
option is rarely the best option.
25:44
If we had hired a reputable, licensed, insured property management
25:48
company, and one of their employees did that to us, they would be
25:51
liable for those damages, not us.
25:54
And that lesson goes for all of the people you hire as you scale your portfolio.
25:59
Your attorney, your CPA, your contractor.
26:02
This is not the place you want to cut corners.
26:05
I would rather pay more money for a quality person than try to save
26:08
money because being cheap can cost you a lot more in the long run.
26:12
I think that's good for our listeners to hear as they're scaling their
26:15
short-term rental portfolio.
26:16
They might be hiring co-hosts or people to help them manage their guests.
26:21
And sometimes, it's exciting to "promote someone" that's doing some of the good
26:27
work for you, but you also do want to look at the other companies, like you
26:31
said, they're out there licensed, insured.
26:33
They've got the reps in.
26:35
The price that they're charging or the fees that they are collecting
26:39
are for a reason, so that sucks.
26:41
There's no--
26:41
That's okay.
26:44
I remember feeling like such a failure at the time, and I was just being really hard
26:49
on myself, and I felt really discouraged, but someone, right after that, told
26:55
me-- I don't know where this came from.
26:56
I won't take credit.
26:57
That FAIL stands for first attempt in learning.
27:01
And then once I looked at it that way, I had such a mindset shift
27:04
because I paid a 6,000-dollar price.
27:08
And I looked at that as my tuition payment.
27:10
I learned a lot from that.
27:12
I'm not going to ever make the same mistake again.
27:14
And you can't be successful at something without failing multiple
27:19
times, and figuring things out, and messing up, and making mistakes.
27:23
So that was really helpful to me.
27:24
And now I can gain even more value knowing I'm preventing other
27:28
people from making that mistake.
27:29
So please take my 6,000-dollar spend and learn from it.
27:33
Right.
27:33
Plus, who knows?
27:35
I mean, who knows what could have been going on that you still don't know about?
27:39
But we won't talk about that.
27:40
All right.
27:41
At 28 doors, you said you hired a property manager.
27:45
It's about 26.
27:46
I think somewhere around there.
27:47
Twenty six.
27:47
Okay.
27:47
So obviously, we let go of the thief.
27:50
So that's what we'll call it.
27:51
And then you probably hired a new property management company.
27:54
After these boarding houses, where they duplexes, fourplexes?
27:58
Are all of them multi-families?
28:00
Yeah.
28:00
What was your buy box?
28:01
Yeah.
28:02
I had a fourplex, triplex, and duplex.
28:05
Those were the three boarding houses.
28:06
Between those, we had 34 units, or something, between those three properties.
28:12
Got you.
28:13
All right.
28:14
And they're all in Kentucky, all within a couple of miles radius there.
28:19
Mm-hmm.
28:19
Awesome.
28:19
All right.
28:20
And when did you and your ex decide-- was it 10 grand?
28:26
I mean, at 38 doors, I'm thinking you're probably clearing more than 10 grand.
28:30
Did you stick to your plan of once we hit 10 grand profit we're done?
28:34
What was the deciding factor of quitting jobs and actually
28:37
reaching that financial freedom?
28:39
Did it come exactly at the time that you had planned with that dollar
28:42
amount, or did you have to exceed it?
28:44
I think we hit it at the end of 2018, the 10 grand a month in profit, and
28:49
that works out to $260 per door per month in profit, which was really
28:54
strong for a long-term rental.
28:56
So I was really happy with that number.
28:58
And then it took me a whole year to work up the courage to actually quit my job.
29:03
Because, as we all know, that's a scary thing when you get to that point.
29:06
And it's like, oh, I can do it now, but wait a second.
29:08
Should I do it now?
29:10
So that took me a year to process.
29:12
And then I finally quit my job in 2019 and just started really
29:15
focusing on my business because by then, I had two books, and I thought
29:19
there was some potential there.
29:20
But I am really proud of us for hitting 10k and stopping because it can be
29:26
very easy to keep pushing the goalpost.
29:29
And a lot of people were like, why are you not buying more properties?
29:32
You could have 200 doors.
29:34
You could have a 250-unit empire.
29:37
And that's not ever what we wanted.
29:38
We weren't passionate about being landlords.
29:42
We were passionate about real estate investing as a means to an end.
29:45
And once we hit five from it, we wanted to spend our time on the things
29:50
that brought us joy, and hike, and travel, and spend time together,
29:54
and see our family and friends.
29:55
So I am proud of us for having that firm boundary.
29:59
Love that.
30:00
And now, not that we need to bring this up, but I think you've started
30:05
your real estate, you're referencing your ex, and so we'll just be a
30:09
little aware that things change with a real estate portfolio when there's--
30:13
Yeah.
30:13
And that's okay.
30:14
I'm an open book about it.
30:16
Annette's tiptoeing.
30:17
I'mlike, oh, they--
30:18
No, I know.
30:19
It's totally fine.
30:19
I've talked about it in other interviews.
30:21
We appreciate.
30:22
You reach your financial independence.
30:24
You are at the 10k, and life pivots for you.
30:28
Can you walk us through how you dismantled the portfolio?
30:31
Because I know you're coming back even stronger.
30:34
So I'd love to just touch on that really quickly and then how we moved on from it.
30:38
My ex and I made a decision in 2021 to sell our three boarding houses,
30:42
which was not related to our divorce because we got divorced later.
30:46
And we wanted to sell them because at that point, owning those was
30:50
not in alignment with our goals.
30:52
We wanted to have income streams that were as passive as possible.
30:56
And like I said, starting out, those really helped us build a lot of wealth.
31:00
But then we hit a point where we were like, this isn't worth it to us anymore.
31:02
We don't want to have to keep working and worrying about these.
31:05
And we started selling those with the intent to reinvest
31:09
that money into syndications, which are a lot more passive.
31:12
And that's been my big focus for the last couple of years.
31:16
So we sold them all in 2021.
31:18
Also, it was a great time to sell.
31:20
We profited a lot.
31:21
In Kentucky, we had a lot of appreciation, which is not a market you would expect.
31:26
So there was just a lot of things lining up at that time where
31:28
it made sense for us to sell.
31:30
And after that, we had four or five units left.
31:33
In 2022, we got divorced, so we did sell a couple of the properties,
31:40
and then he walked away with one, and I walked away with that first
31:44
duplex we bought in Kentucky.
31:46
And I remember feeling so self-conscious about it at the time.
31:50
I felt like an imposter because I was supposed to be the young
31:54
person who had this huge portfolio of 38 doors, and now I had two.
31:59
And I was like, who's going to listen to me anymore?
32:02
And then I realized that's a silly thing to think because it doesn't take away
32:06
from what I have done and achieved and the knowledge and experience that I have.
32:10
So I'm definitely at peace with that now, but I did make a joke for a
32:14
while where I was like, scaling from 38 doors to two doors in one year.
32:19
How did I do it?
32:20
Got a divorce.
32:21
Follow me for more real estate investing advice.
32:23
Sorry.
32:24
Rachel, I would have loved you even more.
32:26
I'm like, this girl needs to be my bestie.
32:29
Oh, wegood.
32:29
Sorry.
32:30
Sarah and I are both really-- that was good.
32:33
Those are facts.
32:36
I can let the listeners know where I am at in life.
32:38
I have a lot of friends that let's say their lives have taken some turns.
32:43
Their portfolios, whether it be investing portfolios or real estate portfolios, the
32:48
thought of unwinding it stops them from making some big decisions where there is
32:53
a lot of money involved and they can't fathom splitting, and just what that
32:57
work would be, and where that would-- because they don't want to go from 38
33:02
to two or millions to a few-- so I think it's important to share because it's a
33:09
message that people need to hear because they get paralyzed by something not being
33:14
what it was before, so we love that.
33:17
So you're down to your duplex.
33:20
Yeah, my duplex in Kentucky, and then just a few months ago, I bought myself
33:25
a duplex house hack in Denver where I spend most of my time and where
33:28
I'm based now, so I'm really excited.
33:30
I'm sitting in it now.
33:31
Yeah.
33:31
You're doing some cool stuff with this.
33:33
I love that you're giving our listeners so many ideas.
33:35
So take us through this duplex that's going to be a fourplex.
33:38
It's going to be your home and a short-term rental.
33:41
Tell us how you found this one.
33:43
You're not a realtor in Colorado, and that market is not cheap, so
33:48
how did money honey Rachel attack that new market, this new strategy?
33:52
Yeah, this is such a fascinating deal.
33:54
And now that I'm far enough along into it and I can see how much of a great
33:58
investment it is, it's just so fun to look back and think about the fears
34:02
I had and all the mistakes I made.
34:05
But I found this property.
34:06
I was casually looking at the end of the year, and I used my
34:10
close friend here who's a realtor.
34:12
And because I'm a realtor in Kentucky, I got a 25% referral fee, so I still
34:18
made a little bit of money from the deal as a realtor, which was nice.
34:21
So he set me up on a search.
34:23
I was casually looking.
34:24
I wasn't really ready to buy.
34:26
There was this property in the area that I wanted to live that came
34:28
up, but it was more than I wanted to pay, and so I forgot about it.
34:34
Then I realized I couldn't see it anymore.
34:36
It was not an active listing anymore.
34:38
And I realized it had gone off market.
34:40
It was an expired, or a canceled, or withdrawn MLS listing.
34:44
So I was like, what happened?
34:45
So we realized that the sellers weren't getting the offers that they wanted.
34:50
It was the end of the year.
34:50
They were like, let's just take it off the market, and we'll relist
34:53
it in the new year, some time.
34:54
So I was like, it is my time to pounce.
34:57
Now, the thing is when I first looked at this property,
35:00
the numbers were horrendous.
35:02
You wouldn't have thought this would have turned out the way it did.
35:06
So this property, they initially listed it for 865 and, at the time,
35:11
I think it was bringing in 3,000 a month in rents, 1,500 per side.
35:16
It was old.
35:17
It was outdated.
35:18
It was long-term tenants.
35:19
So obviously, that is so far off from meeting the 1% rule.
35:23
But I always tell people, just because it doesn't meet the 1% rule when you look
35:26
at it doesn't mean it's a deal breaker.
35:28
You have to ask yourself, does it have the potential to meet the 1% rule?
35:31
And that either means you have to lower the purchase price enough
35:34
or increase the rents enough.
35:35
So I was like, okay, maybe I can do a little bit of both.
35:38
And this duplex was perfect.
35:39
It was a side-by-side duplex with a full unfinished basement.
35:43
Both of the sides of the basements had entrances leading directly outside.
35:47
Oh, heck yeah.
35:48
So I was like, done.
35:50
This could be a fourplex.
35:52
And I started looking at the numbers.
35:53
I was like, could I rent it by the room?
35:54
Could it be a boarding house?
35:56
Could I do long-term tenants?
35:58
Could I do medium-term?
35:59
Could I do short-term?
36:00
And I finally figured out a way where I could bring in, I projected, 8,000
36:05
a month in rent by a combination of long-term and short-term rents.
36:10
So I bought the property, ended up getting it for 750.
36:15
So I got it way under what they were asking because they were motivated by
36:18
that point, and I approached them when it was off market, so I got a great deal.
36:22
I got to talk about a mistake I made, but I now have one long-term
36:27
tenant, one medium-term, and the short-term one, I'm about to launch.
36:32
But even with those two units, the long-term and medium-term rented
36:36
right now, I'm living for free.
36:38
I've broken even on my costs.
36:40
The Airbnb will be extra profit.
36:42
And then when I leave and I travel, because I'm living in the fourth unit,
36:46
I will be able to rent out mine as well, and it'll bring in a lot more cashflow.
36:50
So I'm so excited.
36:51
I think at the end of the day, I'll bring in between eight and 10 grand
36:55
a month in total rents, so I'm very happy with how it's turned out.
36:57
That's amazing.
36:58
We got to ask.
36:58
What's the mistake?
37:00
You brought it up.
37:01
There'ssomany.
37:02
Yeah.
37:02
Okay, There's really two.
37:04
One's not so much a mistake, but I think it's helpful to share.
37:06
So one is this renovation cost, I signed off on an estimate
37:12
with my contractor for $180,000.
37:15
It was not cheap.
37:16
I refinished the kitchens and bathrooms in the units that existed,
37:19
and then we made two whole units.
37:22
So very expensive.
37:23
I was very, very afraid.
37:25
I remember so many times I would call my realtor friend and be like, are we sure?
37:30
What am I doing?
37:31
This seems insane.
37:32
I've never spent this amount of money before.
37:34
And he would be like, you're fine, and you know that you know you're fine.
37:38
That's just an emotional thing.
37:39
And I remember thinking, I've bought so many properties now.
37:43
I have confidence in what I'm doing, but going to this price point and spending
37:48
this much money did give me pause.
37:50
It did create some fear.
37:52
And in that moment, I realized that the difference between successful
37:56
investors and not successful investors is not that we don't have fear.
38:02
It's that we push through and take action despite the fear that we have.
38:06
And that's what I had to realize, is that I logically knew these numbers worked.
38:11
I knew I was conservative.
38:12
I knew it was going to be fine, and it was just this emotion thing that
38:15
was making me clench up and hold back.
38:18
So I was able to push through.
38:20
And that's not the mistake.
38:21
I'm just digressing at this point.
38:22
The mistake is that the renovation budget was 180k, and I did build in buffer into
38:29
my numbers because I always add in an extra 20 to 25% just in case, because
38:33
renovations never stay on budget, and they always go over the timeframe.
38:37
Now, luckily, my contractors were absolutely amazing, so they did
38:40
stay on budget, but there were things that I couldn't possibly have
38:43
foreseen or accounted for up front, like the fact that I really needed
38:46
to get a privacy fence installed.
38:48
That was another 10k.
38:49
Also, I did not realize until months after I closed on this
38:54
property that it didn't have AC.
38:57
Somehow, it didn't get brought up to me.
39:01
I get hot.
39:03
I need AC.
39:04
I need the luxury of cool air on my body.
39:07
I don't know if the inspector just didn't bring it up because it's not
39:10
like it's something that didn't work.
39:11
It just didn't exist.
39:11
Right.
39:11
Didn't exist.
39:13
And maybe my contractors, by that point, just assumed I
39:17
knew that it didn't have AC.
39:19
So once I realized it's getting really warm in here, and I don't
39:21
feel like the AC is working.
39:23
Then they go look, and they're like, you don't have AC.
39:29
And I was like, oh my God.
39:31
So that was a 22,000-dollar fix.
39:34
Were the walls already up?
39:35
Where were you at in the project?
39:37
Yes, but luckily, because it had heat, there was already the vents.
39:42
So they just had to install the condenser.
39:44
I don't know all the words.
39:46
The coil, I don't know.
39:47
The AC unit.
39:48
So they didn't have to tear any walls, thankfully.
39:51
That was 22 grand.
39:53
Then I installed an egress window that I'm glad I installed.
39:57
So there were just things like that that ended up adding up.
39:59
So I did end up spending 220k, which is what I projected, thankfully.
40:05
But it was 40k over what I had signed off on with my contractor.
40:09
Lesson to be learned is make sure you do build in that buffer because
40:13
you're always going to use it up.
40:14
Right.
40:15
But now you have four doors that are all air conditioned.
40:19
Thank God.
40:21
It was 96 degrees here two days ago.
40:23
I have more questions for you that I think our listeners
40:25
are going to want to know too.
40:26
Your mid-term rental, did you furnish it?
40:29
Yes.
40:29
Okay.
40:30
And your short-term rental-- maybe we can turn the table a little bit.
40:34
What are you nervous about, excited about, and are you going to manage it yourself?
40:40
I am excited.
40:41
It's my first Airbnb.
40:43
It's also this funny feeling of, I feel like a really experienced real
40:48
estate investor, but this is my first Airbnb, and I don't know what I'm doing.
40:52
I have no idea.
40:54
I'm just making it up and figuring it out as I go.
40:56
But it's funny to feel like a beginner in this space, and that's pretty exciting.
41:01
I was supposed to launch it a month ago, and then there was a sewage
41:06
backup, and it flooded with poopy water.
41:10
Yeah.
41:11
Really fun.
41:11
I stepped in it.
41:14
Oh, realestate.Okay.
41:16
So then for a week, I'm ripping out carpet.
41:19
It was ready to launch.
41:22
So I had to have my TaskRabbit guy come back over and disassemble the furniture
41:26
and move it out of the two bedrooms.
41:27
Luckily, not all the carpet was ruined, but the two bedrooms were.
41:31
Brand new carpet that I had just paid for that had never even been stepped on.
41:35
So that, and then I'm ripping out the carpet, and rolling
41:38
it up, and throwing it out.
41:39
And finally, tomorrow I'm getting it reinstalled.
41:44
And I think the learning lesson for me on this one is I dragged my
41:49
feet on getting this fixed because I was so upset about the money.
41:54
And I was like, well, what if it floods again?
41:56
Should I laminate down?
41:58
Should I just paint?
41:59
For a while, I was like, I'll just paint the cement floors and make the cement
42:02
floors look nice and put down big rugs.
42:04
And then I looked into doing that.
42:06
That's a whole process, painting a cement floor.
42:08
It's a whole thing.
42:09
So I think for so long, I was just so hung up on like, how can
42:13
I fix this as cheaply as possible?
42:16
But you know what?
42:17
I've missed out on a month of summer revenue because I failed to take action
42:22
and hire somebody to get it fixed.
42:24
And the amount of money I've lost from revenue is way more expensive than the
42:28
amount of money I would have spent to just put more carpet in and pay somebody.
42:32
And I could kick myself now.
42:34
I just got into that frugal thing, that being cheap thing, which I keep
42:38
messing up and making that same mistake.
42:40
But now I know.
42:41
And so I hired somebody, and it's going to be launched next
42:43
week, but super frustrating.
42:44
I just had this conversation with Annette about other things in business
42:48
of this whole trying to piece together all the things to save a buck.
42:52
And when you look back at it, you're like, oh my gosh, I missed out on,
42:55
whether it's rent, or an opportunity.
42:58
The mental mortgage that I paid to figure out how to save a buck, it's
43:02
just-- that has to be like my biggest Achilles heel, is that exact thing.
43:06
Metoo.
43:07
And time is worth something.
43:09
My time is worth something.
43:11
And if I had spent hours and hours and hours painting concrete floor, I could be
43:15
doing something much better with my time.
43:16
I can be generating other revenue or just relaxing and not doing anything.
43:20
Right.
43:21
And the lost opportunity cost.
43:22
There's a time to paint the floors in your beginning, when you've
43:26
got the time and you're listening to podcasts and reading books.
43:29
But then there's a time for action, and there's a time
43:31
for where you're at right now.
43:32
And you've got the knowledge where you can make a ton of money an hour,
43:35
and that's what you should be doing.
43:37
And I know you know this, but I'm telling myself this.
43:41
Just thinking about that, listeners, of really where you're at and what
43:44
you should be spending, whether it's your time or the dollar, to
43:48
just get the thing done and move on.
43:49
So talking about--
43:50
That's agreat point.
43:51
Yeah.
43:51
Talking about time, Rachel, why the short-term rental?
43:56
Why the Airbnb?
43:57
Is it to hit those numbers?
43:58
Is it to hit the 1%?
44:00
Is it because you want to get some reps in as a short-term rental host?
44:05
Because we're talking about time, we're talking about energy.
44:09
It's going to be a lot of work.
44:10
So why did you decide that one unit in this place would be
44:14
available for short-term rental?
44:16
I initially thought that the short-term units would bring in
44:20
more than the long-term unit because that's typically what happens.
44:24
And here's another mistake I made.
44:25
I like to share mistakes because it just shows people that no one's perfect at
44:30
this, and even when you've been doing this for years, you make mistakes.
44:33
And I think people can learn more from the mistakes than all the
44:36
perfect things that went right.
44:38
So I did my research on the permits and what I needed short-term
44:43
rental-wise in the city that I'm in.
44:45
I was confident I could have two short-term units.
44:49
And then I realized I was wrong.
44:51
And I'm a smart person, so I don't know how I messed this up.
44:55
So I ended up having to pivot and just have one short-term unit, and
44:59
then a medium-term unit now, which is fine because it ended up working out.
45:04
I was going to have to furnish both anyways.
45:05
It wasn't that much of a pivot.
45:07
But what I find interesting is that I rented out my long-term unit for $300
45:13
more per month than my medium-term unit.
45:16
I basically projected that each unit would bring in 2k a month in rent.
45:21
My long-term unit is rented for 24, 25.
45:24
2,400 a month.
45:25
My medium-term is now rented for 2,150, and maybe I could
45:29
increase the price on that.
45:31
And then I'm projecting that my short-term will bring in around
45:34
2,500 to maybe 3,000 per month.
45:37
But it's fine because it ended up working out.
45:39
All my rents are better than what I projected, and having to change
45:43
one short-term unit to a medium-term unit was no problem at all.
45:47
Why is that?
45:48
Why is your medium-term making less than your long-term vacant leases?
45:53
I don't know.
45:54
I think maybe I underpriced my medium term/got lucky on my long-term.
45:58
Because I rented it out at the beginning of the summer when everyone's looking
46:02
for a place to live in Denver, and it was listed for rent for 2,250,
46:08
but they also pay a $100 flat fee for utilities, and then a pet fee, and then
46:13
a small fee to use the one car garage.
46:15
So it all adds up to that 2,400-dollar amount.
46:19
Yeah.
46:19
Got you.
46:21
I love it though.
46:22
You've got your house hacking, your short-term rental, mid-term
46:26
rental, and long-term rental.
46:27
Is that a Grand Slam?
46:29
You're hitting all the-- it'sa home run.
46:31
What is it when you win a Tony?
46:33
Is it an EGOT?
46:34
A Tony?
46:36
You're hitting-- yeah, it's a--
46:37
A Triple Crown.
46:38
You're covering all the bases here at this one property in Denver.
46:42
Here's the cool thing, Rachel.
46:44
We're now best friends, so you need short-term rental help, you let us know.
46:47
What's next for you?
46:48
What are you hoping for in the next year or two?
46:51
I am hoping to continue my post-divorce healing journey.
46:54
I'm in a happier, healthier place than I've been in years, and I just want
46:58
to focus on myself and figure out what makes me happy, and grow, and learn,
47:02
and I just want to be the best version of myself that I know is possible, and
47:07
I haven't reached my potential yet.
47:09
So it's really a lot about personal stuff, hobbies.
47:13
I want to play the piano, and learn languages, and dance salsa, and
47:16
hike, and travel, and lift weights.
47:18
I want to spend time doing things that I love.
47:20
I worked hard for a really long time, and I've never taken advantage of my
47:24
financial independence, so I think I'm going to enter this new era of my life.
47:29
Love it.
47:30
And where can our listeners follow along on this weightlifting,
47:35
salsa-dancing real estate investor?
47:38
Oh, yes.
47:39
Thank you.
47:39
My Instagram is @moneyhoneyrachel, and both of my books are available on
47:45
Amazon, and ebook, paperback, and audio.
47:48
And also what I would love to do for your listeners is if anyone wants to
47:51
download my passive income starter kit, I will give that for free.
47:56
So you can go to moneyhoneyrachel.com/passiveincome
48:01
to download that.
48:02
Love that.
48:03
That's amazing.
48:03
Thankyou.And we'll make sure to link to Rachel's Instagram and
48:07
her books in our show notes.
48:09
And we just cannot thank you enough for sharing all the wins and losses.
48:15
We appreciate that.
48:16
We know people have learned a lot, so send Rachel a DM if you learned
48:21
a thing or three on today'sshow.
48:23
Thiswas a really good episode, Rachel.
48:25
Thank you so much for your vulnerability and expertise.
48:29
I can't wait to see what's next for you.
48:30
With that, I'm Sarah Karakaian.
48:32
I'm Annette Grant.
48:32
And together we are--
48:33
Thanks for Visiting.
48:34
Talk to you next time.