Latest / Behind The Village Podcast / Building a Sustainable Future Together | Sarah Patterson

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Building a Sustainable Future Together | Sarah Patterson · Behind The Village Podcast

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we are kind of doubling down on more growth,
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more technology, more and more and more of the
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same to try and deal with the problems that we've
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got, which I think is part of why we have been
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aware of what has been going on for decades and
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not really seen any traction because we're trying
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to solve the problem with more of what got us
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here in the first place. You're listening to
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the Behind the Village podcast. Our guest today
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is Sarah Patterson, president of Common Earth
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and Sustainable Aurelia. My husband and I moved
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here about two years ago. We sort of had this
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dream of having like the family commune kind
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of happening up here. And my husband was like,
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Sarah, you think the whole world's going to come
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to you? What are you talking about? That's not
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going to happen. Well, then about three weeks
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after we moved here, my sister and my two nieces
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moved in. And then about three weeks ago, my
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mom moved in. So it's happening. Amazing. And
1:01
yeah, we got so our little our little community
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is expanding and more people are coming to Aurelia,
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which is great. Um, and yeah, I mean, I think
1:13
this isn't really answering your question, but
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I think that's a bit of a segue into just why
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and how this idea of community is so important
1:24
to me. Um, it's when, when we talk about, we're
1:29
going to get into sustainable earlier and what
1:31
I do for a living and all of the rest of that.
1:33
But the reason why I'm so passionate about all
1:35
of those things is, um, There are a lot of tentacles
1:42
that people, I think, often overlook. And this
1:44
idea of community and supporting each other is
1:47
such a big element of that for me. That at first
1:52
blush, I think most people would not sort of
1:55
connect those two things, climate change and
1:58
community. And I can talk a little bit more about
2:01
why and how I feel so strongly about that. But
2:04
that's a huge piece for me. And so I guess. In
2:08
a roundabout way, answering your question about
2:10
tell me a little bit about yourself, what I'm
2:13
saying is going from downtown Toronto, where
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there wasn't the same kind of sense of community
2:21
available to me, to a smaller place where I already
2:26
feel like I have an established community and
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I am part of something. is um is huge i've talked
2:35
to a few people that have actually moved uh from
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toronto right or from other major uh city centers
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into uh aurelia and it's always kind of a similar
2:44
story right where you come here and it feels
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different it feels uh obviously we are a smaller
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uh space compared to aurelia but the community
2:55
feeling is very much here and it's fairly you
2:58
know fairly strong even though it really is moving
3:00
uh or growing yeah at a fairly fast pace yeah
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was there um a moment because i do want to touch
3:07
on that move and the idea of that kind of family
3:09
compound thing because i'm very much on that
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train right now too wanting that family compound
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um was there a moment i guess or maybe a series
3:18
of moments living in toronto where you were thinking
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you know what like this is not it this is not
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what i want this doesn't feel right you know
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um where to begin on that one yes is the short
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answer um in all sorts of respects is the long
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answer from my career and my job in corporate
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banking to and how unfulfilling that was and
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how um just being part of that um culture of
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feeling like I need to be on the hamster wheel
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and progressing up the hierarchy and all of it
3:57
just it was so antithetical to who I am and what's
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important to me to um despite the fact that I
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had a lot of family and friends in the city feeling
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really not grounded as part of a community and
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so as I became increasingly concerned about what
4:17
was going on globally and when I talk like I
4:20
feel like the climate crisis is almost too narrow
4:22
um that there's why I'm I've started adopting
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things like multi -crisis or poly -crisis to
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talk about all of the ways that what's going
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on socially, politically, economically, all of
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these things are connected and they're all part
4:40
and parcel of symptoms of a bigger thing that's
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going on here. But as I was becoming more and
4:46
more aware of and concerned about all of that,
4:50
this idea of community and this idea of... needing
4:56
a space where we can feel grounded in community
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and supporting each other became increasingly
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important as a response to that just to keep
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my sanity yeah dealing with all of that so so
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that was for years sort of a growing need and
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then sort of figuring out well where do we make
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that happen and how do we make that happen and
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we had this sort of criteria of needing some
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land to start a garden, but it needed to be downtown
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because we wanted to be able to walk everywhere
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so it couldn't be too remote. And that just doesn't
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exist. And it had to be part of a bigger sort
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of sense of community. So we were looking for
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years and then we found our little unicorn and
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a little place in downtown Aurelia where we have
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actually some land to be able to do all of that
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and a big enough space to accommodate all of
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the people that are now starting to be part of
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our our living space which is great yeah very
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cool yeah it's an interesting uh i guess concept
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the word community because we've we've talked
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about this before as well but just how uh you
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know a long time ago People used to stick together,
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you know, for a while. Like the community used
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to be a fairly strong, normal thing. Like everybody
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used to stick together. Everybody used to kind
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of, you know, travel together. There were nomadic
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tribes that would all go together. Like, you
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know, all these kinds of things. And throughout,
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you know, modern technology or how we have evolved,
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you know, through the years, we've kind of lost
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that sense of the village, right? there's there's
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a village there that is going to help you or
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is going to protect you or is going to keep you
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safe or, you know, that kind of thing. And then,
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you know, nowadays, I feel like from just my
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standpoint, a lot of people just feel like, you
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know, I'm just trying to be here by myself trying
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to do something right. And there's not as much
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support as I would like or as I would have hoped
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there would be for any of the things that I am
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doing, right, whether it's raising children,
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whether it's career, whether it's, you know,
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whatever. Exactly. I mean, we are such an individualistic
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society. that you know really emphasizes being
7:25
able to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and
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do it by yourself and all and and it's exactly
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the wrong message we are such social beings and
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we we've known this like to your point there
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was always the tribe there was always it takes
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a village to raise the kids there was always
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i don't know um let's go help joe with the raising
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of his barn let's go let's whatever i mean there
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was always that sense of we help each other and
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It still emerges in times of crisis, which is
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lovely. When there was the blackout, that was
7:57
a great example with the ice storm. Yeah, yeah.
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A great example of us banding together and remembering
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that, hey, yeah, that's who we are at our core
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and we need that. But like these. um instances
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of mental health and loneliness and um all sorts
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of addiction i think are symptoms of that of
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us not being plugged into how social we are at
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our core and how much we need each other and
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so um but i agree i think um ways in which we
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can um resist some of the big things that are
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going on and respond to that is through banding
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together and supporting each other and it's really
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interesting to you know to your point as well
8:47
is that we require now something big like a big
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incident or a big you know issue for us to actually
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band together or to protect each other or to,
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you know, I guess degradation of issues or something
9:01
that is not an immediate concern doesn't trigger
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that same effect in us, I guess, anymore, right?
9:08
Well, we got the biggest one coming, the biggest
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existential threat possible. So hopefully we
9:14
can figure this out. Hopefully, yeah. I was going
9:17
to say it's the, what is it, the frog, the boiling
9:19
water syndrome, where if you put a frog in cold
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water and slowly raise the temperature, it won't
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jump out. You know, you just start to withstand
9:26
all that pressure and, you know, it'll die. Part
9:29
of it for sure, Michaela. And I think that's
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exacerbated by the fact that we used to be really
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good at having a bit of a different relationship
9:39
with time. And what I mean by that is like that
9:41
whole seven generations thinking and like. Now
9:45
everything is instant gratification and immediate
9:48
and just like what's going to get me elected
9:50
in the next four years. It's very short, short
9:52
term. And so we don't see beyond the end of our
9:56
noses, which is to our own detriment. So, yeah,
10:00
I think having having a bit of a longer term
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understanding of what's going on here and thinking
10:08
about. next generations and what we're what our
10:13
legacy is going to be here um is kind of an important
10:17
piece of the puzzle for sure yeah it's so interesting
10:21
like there's so many like you said so many different
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facets and i think like you said what we're seeing
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is a lot of symptoms yeah if you look at it that
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way trying to uncover what the main issue is
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You know, or what the larger issues are that
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affect everything else, you know, it's almost
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as if if we can focus on those larger ones as
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a community, you know, that would help kind of
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rectify maybe some of the things that we are
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seeing a little more closely, you know, I love
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that you said that. Because that's the crux of
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the whole thing as far as I'm concerned, like,
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to me. we are running around playing whack -a
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-mole trying to deal with all these symptoms
10:59
rather than trying to get at root cause and um
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and we're asking the wrong questions and trying
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to solve for the wrong problem like if we are
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the way i see it um hell -bent on trying to figure
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out how to save this current version of society
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and how we can swap out fossil fuels for renewables
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and whatever so that we can carry on on this
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path. That's the wrong question. That's the wrong
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goal. So figuring out a better way to do all
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of this is really what's required here. I don't
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think very many of us are quite there yet. It's
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tough because I think like we said, and maybe
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that's by design, you know, conspiracy, just
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kind of a conspiracy kind of popped into my head.
11:54
But as we talked about, you're so busy being
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that individual trying to do it all. You don't
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have time. I don't have brain power. And I feel
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that even just as an individual personally, I
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got to just I'm just trying to get through the
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day today. I'm not thinking like years and like
12:11
next year. I can't do that. I need more support.
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Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people have trouble
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just planning for the year that this is the type
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of year that I want to have, let alone like 10
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years, 20 years. Next generation, what are my
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kids are going to be like, right? Or what are
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what are they going to inherit? When we are gone,
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it takes a lot of effort and it takes a lot of,
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like you said, brain power that the world with
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that instant gratification doesn't seem to allow
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us the time to actually just think. But again,
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back to why we need each other and why we can
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support each other in doing some of that work
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and not have to each one of us carry that individually,
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but make it a collective load. And then it becomes
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lighter. And then and, you know, and we all have
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ebbs and flows in what we can take on in any
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given moment. There are moments when I'm like,
13:07
I got you and moments when like, no, no, you
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need to get me. And ways that we can understand
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that that's just the natural way that we all
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operate and support each other through that.
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It's, I think, really important. Absolutely.
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So I guess jumping from that kind of conversation
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into your work with Common Earth and Sustainable
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Aurelia, you can kind of whichever one you want
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to sort of start with. What is it that you do
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within those organizations? What are they about?
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Okay. Maybe I'll start more meta and then go
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more micro. So I'll start with Common Earth and
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then get into Sustainable Aurelia. But it's really
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all facets of the same thing. So Common Earth
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is an organization whose sort of foundational
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question is, how can we move to a post -carbon
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caring society? So what I was pointing at earlier
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of like, how can we do this better? Not work
14:08
on trying to salvage this, but... figure out
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something better that's the question what does
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that look like and how do we get there how do
14:16
we um weave in sustainability and our caring
14:23
interconnectedness into our society as opposed
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to this idea of individuality and consumerism
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and more and more and more and economic growth
14:34
and gdp endless infinite growth on a finite planet
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makes no sense to me anyway so how can we start
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to um as individuals recognize elements of that
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society and kind of start to um encourage that
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along so um so we spend a lot at its at its core
15:04
common earth is about creating communities of
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people who are coming together, who are interested
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in understanding all of that. And we've put together
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a really comprehensive program where we look
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at that really holistically and talk about all
15:20
of these interconnected elements. So talk about
15:23
how economics and thermodynamics and biomimicry
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and all of these different elements are part
15:31
of necessarily our understanding of what's going
15:34
on here. from a sort of geopolitical, socially,
15:39
economic, environmental perspective. And one
15:45
of the elements that I have found tremendously
15:48
helpful, well, maybe I'll focus on two of them,
15:50
actually. Two of the elements that I've found
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tremendously helpful as part of this program.
15:56
are one, something called systems thinking, which
15:59
is a way of sort of understanding and connecting
16:03
things that maybe otherwise in our kind of siloed
16:06
ways of looking at things and understanding them,
16:09
we otherwise miss. So that's a perspective or
16:13
a lens that I found really helpful. Those who
16:17
take the course have found really helpful. And
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it doesn't matter. Like, I mean, we're obviously
16:21
using that lens to understand what's going on
16:24
in the world writ large. But I mean, that's an
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amazing tool no matter what you're how you're
16:31
using it. So that's a that's a big part of what
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we do. And then another big part of what we do
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is helping people to. make the distinction between
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our circumstances and our responses to them and
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our experience of them and the ways in which
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we have some agency in that, in how we respond.
16:58
And that is when we're looking at things as overwhelming
17:02
as... The collapse of society. Yes. Let's call
17:11
a spade a spade. You recognize that we have some
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agency in how we are experiencing what's going
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on and our own grief responses and all of the
17:25
rest of it. So that is something that is. Again,
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I have personally found enormously helpful because
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I really spent, I'm now in my 50s, I have spent
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probably the first 40 years of my life thinking
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that my response to things was an objective response,
17:46
that of course anybody would feel that way in
17:48
this circumstance. And I'm recognizing, oh, no,
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actually. My thinking about this circumstance
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has a lot to do with how I'm feeling about that.
17:58
I have some say in how I think about this. Isn't
18:01
that interesting? Oh, actually, maybe my husband
18:04
isn't an asshole today. I'm thinking about my
18:08
husband. That's actually changed. And it's huge.
18:12
It's allowed me to participate in. the ways in
18:20
which I am choosing to experience things and
18:25
that's enormously helpful so I would say those
18:28
are the two biggest elements of the common earth
18:32
curriculum that are equipping people to to be
18:38
able to at the same time sort of really look
18:41
at the reality of what we're up against and deal
18:45
with it emotionally and those are two big So
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is it a teaching curriculum? Is that what Common
18:51
Earth is? Yeah. So it's an online curriculum.
18:55
And one of the things that I absolutely really
18:59
appreciate about what's happening there is that
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we do this online together collectively and in
19:07
small cohorts of about 15 people. tend to be
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comprised of really very international representation
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so it's pretty cool to be sitting in aurelia
19:22
and having someone in the same class that from
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kenya and new zealand and paris and i don't know
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all over the world so when we're talking about
19:33
um taking on different perspectives and broadening
19:37
our boundaries and our understandings about things,
19:40
having people that have different cultural perspectives
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to make that easier collectively to do that.
19:49
Hey, what about this? Because it's impossible
19:51
to recognize your own blind spots. You don't
19:54
see what you don't see, right? So having other
19:56
people there to go, hey, wait a minute. What
19:58
about this? Oh, yeah. Like, huge. Thank you.
20:03
That's so helpful as we collectively grapple
20:06
with some of these big things and start to make
20:08
connections around how all of it is related,
20:13
how thermodynamics and biomimicry and the economic
20:16
system and capitalism and neoliberalism and all
20:20
of these things are all connected. Absolutely.
20:23
It's so fascinating. I feel like I can talk a
20:25
lot about it. A lot about those two things are
20:28
just super, super interesting. And I've mentioned,
20:32
we've talked about systems thinking before, but
20:35
can you explain for people that have never heard
20:41
of this idea, right? Because you mentioned it
20:43
as a silo and I've actually learned it to be
20:45
that way as well as a silo versus systems thinking.
20:48
Can you explain it a little more just so people
20:49
understand what you mean by that? Yeah. So at
20:57
its core, really, systems thinking is understanding
21:01
that anything that has any parts that are interacting
21:07
is a system. And that there are certain principles
21:11
that apply to every system, regardless of whether
21:14
it's a mechanical system like your coffee maker
21:17
or a social system like a school or an infrastructure
21:22
system like a building or the roads and the highways.
21:25
They all have certain principles of ways in which
21:29
systems work that when one understands some of
21:34
those ideas and principles. It's sort of a shortcut
21:37
to understanding things that you're now encountering
21:44
for the first time and can apply some of these
21:47
principles that you already understand apply
21:50
to all systems. So, I mean, there's a lot more
21:54
to say about that in terms of. Some of the elements
21:59
and what some of those principles are and what
22:02
happens as you get more and more complex in a
22:06
system. But it is really starting to just intentionally
22:11
expand our boundaries and start to understand
22:17
the interconnections of things and the ways in
22:20
which. There are feedback loops where this thing
22:24
is impacting this thing over here that you wouldn't
22:28
necessarily think are connected and start to
22:32
understand those broader connections and ways
22:37
in which those influences start to impact the
22:40
behavior of the system. Yeah. Absolutely. And
22:44
for me, the way that I think I like to explain
22:47
it, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I like
22:49
to explain it in the way that the same way because
22:51
everybody knows what a car is. Right. So a car,
22:54
you just go and you drive it and. It works or
22:57
it doesn't work. Right. But you when you start
23:00
actually tinkering or you open the hood of the
23:03
car and you see like there's all of these, there's
23:06
the engine, there's all of these different fluids
23:07
and things that need to happen. They're all connected.
23:10
They're all kind of part of what makes the car
23:13
run. If one of those don't work. eventually it's
23:16
going to damage the car but a lot of people right
23:19
just think of oh i bought a new car everything
23:21
you know it's one single thing it's one field
23:24
of view it's a car no you bought an entire system
23:27
that is all connected together in order to make
23:29
that work and on top of that you know you need
23:33
to keep putting gas in you need to put you know
23:36
windshield wiper you need to put all these kinds
23:38
of things that attach that system to a broader
23:41
outside system like a mechanic shop and all these
23:43
kind of things you kind of start seeing that
23:45
everything that you do is connected to other
23:48
things you there is never one thing that can
23:50
be done simply by itself it's always kind of
23:53
attached to multiple other things right that's
23:57
brilliant and one of the huge insights that i
24:00
had is that really ultimately there is only one
24:04
system, and that is the entire universe. And
24:06
everything else is a nested Russian doll kind
24:10
of piece of the system that is ultimately all
24:13
connected to and is so a subsystem of the entire
24:17
universe. So when you think like I myself as
24:21
a body, as an entity, am a system, but I have
24:24
a... a respiratory system, a digestive system,
24:27
a cardiopulmonary system, a lymphatic system.
24:31
I'm made up of a lot of systems that comprise
24:35
me as a system, and then I'm part of a family,
24:38
I'm part of a community. Those are all bigger
24:40
systems. And then, again, to your point, June,
24:44
you know, where are you going to... decide to
24:49
stop making the connections i mean every time
24:52
you look at something you're not going to look
24:54
at it from the perspective of the entire universe
24:56
that's a little overwhelming so where are you
24:58
going to stop but ultimately it is all connected
25:01
and it is all part of the one system the one
25:04
thing going on here the whole universe and and
25:07
kind of tying that into the earth itself and
25:11
nature, because that's something that we've more
25:13
recently realized is how impacted we are and
25:16
how much we need that connection as beings to
25:20
the earth in particular that we have come from,
25:22
you know, we've realized the importance of that.
25:26
And we're trying to make more conscious shifts
25:28
in that way in terms of spending more, I want
25:33
to say quality time, but undistracted time just
25:36
amongst nature itself. yeah to actually connect
25:40
yeah to connect and then to feel how healing
25:43
that is even mentally like you talked about all
25:45
those different systems like the stress kind
25:47
of melts away and you know you just like you
25:49
feel lighter and you just feel restored you know
25:57
Language is so interesting. Even talking about
26:00
connecting with nature or making a conscious
26:04
effort to spend time in nature. We are nature.
26:07
We are part of it. The idea that you can't hold
26:16
your breath for more than, I don't know what,
26:18
maybe a minute. Maybe you're really good, maybe
26:22
a couple. I mean, we are constantly breathing
26:27
in the oxygen from the trees and the plants.
26:29
We are, that is what is allowing us to be alive.
26:34
We are eating the plants that are growing in
26:39
the soil that we are definitely impacting in
26:44
not such great ways. But anyway, the point is
26:49
that, yeah, without those interactions with nature,
26:53
we... We cease to exist. I mean, we are nature.
26:56
So, yes, connecting with it, spending time with
27:01
it, appreciating it, recognizing that that is
27:06
an extension of ourselves is really important
27:10
to all those systems. designed to work together,
27:15
designed to interact. So yeah, absolutely. I
27:20
agree, Michaela. You know, and I think it flows
27:22
very well with the other element that you all
27:24
also mentioned, which is that idea of, you know,
27:28
being a little bit more perceptive as to how
27:31
your experiences or how, you know, you interact
27:34
with what's happening, right? If you see the
27:37
news or you see that, you know, something bad
27:40
is happening, right? what am I feeling, right?
27:44
What are other people potentially feeling? And
27:47
is that based on my experience? Is that based
27:49
on who they are or, you know, any of the systems
27:51
that we may be involved with? But what do I choose
27:55
to do about that? Do I choose to let it get me
27:58
down? Do I choose to move forward with it? Do
28:01
I choose to take an action to stop that from
28:04
happening? You know, all these different things.
28:06
Yeah, that. That's the exact agency that I was
28:11
trying to point at, June, thank you. Because
28:15
so often we, I'll just speak for myself, so often
28:22
I would have a reaction and think that that was
28:27
the only thing available to me, as opposed to
28:31
choosing an intentional response to what's going
28:35
on. And those are two very, very different things.
28:38
So rather than being sort of led around by these
28:45
automatic reactions, I'm I'm having a very different
28:48
relationship with what's going on around me.
28:51
And that's that's a really powerful thing. Yeah.
28:55
Yeah. And it really changes the way that you
28:57
start thinking about it, because I'm assuming
28:59
and I don't know, but I'm assuming that sustainable
29:02
Aurelia, which we'll talk about next, kind of
29:04
comes in as an action of I want to do something
29:07
about it. I don't want to just wait for it to
29:11
happen, for anything to happen to me. I want
29:14
to try and fix it. I want to try and do something
29:16
about it, right? And it requires you to actually
29:19
think just beyond your initial reaction of, oh,
29:22
that's too bad. And just be like, well, let's
29:26
do something. Let's try and fix it. Exactly.
29:30
That's too bad or I'm just one person and what
29:33
I do doesn't matter, whatever. I mean, any of
29:36
the narratives we choose to be led around by
29:39
are just that. And so we can choose ones that
29:44
have us being more actively involved in constructive
29:50
ways or going back to bed and pulling the covers
29:54
over. Like those are both. Really logical responses
30:01
that I understand, but we have a choice. And
30:05
so what are we going to do? And so, yeah, one
30:07
of the first things I did when I moved here was,
30:09
despite the fact that I spend my whole professional
30:12
life talking about this and interacting and grappling
30:17
and thinking about it and learning more, one
30:22
of the first things that I did was to decide
30:25
that I want to be. part of a community that is
30:30
local. So I talked about how amazing it is that
30:34
this is really international. I love that. But
30:36
locally, how can I be part of a group of people
30:42
who can be spending time together thinking about
30:45
this on a local level? So whether that's creating
30:49
community gardens or whatever, whatever it is
30:52
that we decide as a group we want to be doing.
30:56
How can we create care structures and awareness
31:01
in our local community that are going to allow
31:06
us to move forward in a more constructive way?
31:08
And that was something that was really important
31:10
for me to be a part of. So one of the first things
31:12
I did when I landed in Aurelia was to join Sustainable
31:18
Aurelia. And it's great. I mean, we have all
31:21
sorts of people. I think our youngest board member
31:25
is in her early 20s. And then we have people
31:28
who I think are in their 80s. And so we've got
31:32
a whole spectrum of people, people that are sort
31:36
of newer transplants to Aurelia, people who have
31:38
been born here. And all sorts of ideas about
31:42
how we respond. And collectively, we are... Working
31:48
together to figure out, OK, how how does that
31:51
as a group, how how are we going to decide that
31:56
that's how we want to show up in this community,
31:59
how we want to be helpful in this community,
32:01
how the energy we want to be putting into this
32:03
community. And it's and it's a great thing to
32:06
be a part of. Yeah. So what does Sustainable
32:09
Aurelia do in that sense? Well, we. talk about
32:18
what it is we want to do a fair bit, figuring
32:20
that out. Like, what is the need? How do we make
32:24
ourselves as useful as possible to the community?
32:26
And like I said, there are, because it's a bunch
32:29
of individuals, there are a bunch of individual
32:32
ideas about what that looks like. So there are
32:36
all sorts of initiatives that we are putting
32:39
together from, perhaps you know about the...
32:44
calendar that we do every year where young students
32:47
do art from different parts of the schools and
32:51
then they enter their art and we create a calendar
32:53
every year so that's getting young people aware
32:56
and involved and and celebrating art which I
32:58
think is important an important piece of all
33:01
of this so that's that's a project we do every
33:05
year coming up on the 26th and 27th of July we
33:09
have a green innovation weekend down at the port
33:12
and we're really showcasing ways in which we
33:17
can be moving towards more sustainable choices
33:21
in terms of how we are powering everything from
33:25
cars and boats to lawnmowers and then how we
33:30
think differently about our investments and how
33:33
we think differently about. So how do we just
33:36
start to move in a direction of making choices
33:40
that are more aligned with. an ability to be
33:44
sustainable for the longer term. That's one initiative
33:50
we've got. One of the things that I think is
33:54
maybe a little less commonly known is the impact
33:58
that our diets have on the planet and how important
34:02
it is. for us to be moving in the direction of
34:04
more plant -based. So we have a number of initiatives
34:08
coming up where we're encouraging people to think
34:12
about the choices they make three times a day
34:14
that unless you're doing some intermittent fasting,
34:18
I don't know, but typically three times a day
34:21
where you get to make choices that are more or
34:26
less sustainable in terms of what you're putting
34:28
on your plate. And so helping people. tap into
34:32
their own sense of agency there. There are some
34:34
really huge choices you could make around how
34:37
you're choosing to feed your family that are
34:39
really, I think, overlooked in terms of impact.
34:44
And so try to do some education on that. We partnered
34:49
with Lakehead. on Earth Day and did a big event
34:58
there. So looking to also, I think, walk the
35:03
talk in terms of expanding our boundaries and
35:06
not being so siloed in terms of trying to work
35:09
with other organizations who are like -minded
35:11
and how can we expand our reach. So always looking
35:16
for more people to be involved, more organizations
35:18
who are thinking along these same lines and thinking
35:22
about how can we expand our reach and our impact.
35:26
I love that. So it sounds like Sustainable Aurelia
35:28
just really is an organization that tries to
35:31
create initiatives to have people understand
35:36
what sustainability is or how to live more sustainably
35:41
on Earth. Yeah. And starting to just weave that
35:44
more into who we are and the choices we make
35:49
every day in such a way that they aren't even
35:51
choices anymore. Because that's, to your point,
35:53
Michaela, a bit exhausting. Every time I need
35:56
to think about something, I like mull it all
35:59
over and agonize. And just rather start to move
36:03
in a direction of because we are such social
36:05
beings, the more we all do this together, the
36:08
more that's the norm. And then the more we don't
36:09
think about it. That's how do we start to model
36:14
some of that so that it becomes easier for the
36:16
next guy to do it? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's
36:20
a big part of what we're all about. That's true.
36:24
I didn't think about that, but that's actually
36:25
very true. And I was looking to your website,
36:28
like you said, with Sustainable Aurelia. There
36:30
are seven sectors that you guys are trying to
36:32
kind of hit, right? There's agriculture, goods
36:36
and services, infrastructure and energy, education,
36:38
environment, arts and culture, health and wellness
36:41
and youth, which is just a very broad. Yeah.
36:46
I don't know, way, a very, a very broad look
36:49
for sustainability, but it's, you know, as you
36:52
mentioned with systems thinking, everything is
36:54
kind of connected. It's all connected. Right.
36:56
Connected. Yeah. Yeah. And, and what is awesome
37:00
about that is because it's all connected. If
37:06
you are volunteering at the sharing place. you're
37:09
involved in climate work. And that's amazing.
37:12
It all matters. And so anybody that starts to
37:16
feel like I'm not doing enough or what I'm doing
37:19
isn't contributing in ways that I want it to
37:22
be, when we understand how interconnected it
37:26
all is, it all matters. It all is working in,
37:31
well, maybe all. But I think it's just a much
37:41
broader stroke of the brush than we would necessarily
37:45
consider at first blush. You know, we've kind
37:49
of been dancing around a lot of this, the idea
37:54
of symptoms and the idea of, you know, everything
37:57
from common earth and sustainable Aurelia that
38:00
you guys are trying to do, right? I feel like
38:03
we've danced around what... is the actual main
38:06
problem that is causing kind of all of these
38:11
symptoms? And what is that, in your opinion,
38:14
that is, you know, that is the main cause that
38:17
we need to tackle, that we need to, you know,
38:19
be aware of? I'm going to do my utmost to answer
38:25
that question. But I want to just... have a bit
38:30
of a caveat here that this is, this is my opinion.
38:34
And I don't, I don't have the hubris to think
38:39
that I've got the answer to that big question.
38:42
Here's my answer, but with some humility. Okay.
38:48
So two things that I want to just submit as foundational.
38:58
pieces to my answer the first is um that there's
39:03
a quote from albert einstein that i absolutely
39:06
love that it that goes something along the lines
39:08
of i'm paraphrasing but something along the lines
39:11
of we can never solve the problems that we are
39:15
trying to resolve with the same thinking that
39:18
got us here in the first place which is exactly
39:21
what i think we're trying to do um and We are
39:26
kind of doubling down on more growth, more technology,
39:29
more and more and more of the same to try and
39:32
deal with the problems that we've got, which
39:33
I think is part of why we have been aware of
39:39
what has been going on for decades and not really
39:42
seen any traction because we're trying to solve
39:45
the problem with more of what got us here in
39:47
the first place. And so I think that. The crux
39:53
of this matter is about trying to reconnect with
39:57
some of the stuff that we were talking about
40:00
earlier in terms of we are not individuals. We
40:04
are social beings. We need each other. We exist
40:08
in community. We exist as part of nature. It's
40:11
such short -term thinking to think that we can
40:14
relate to it as a resource, as a natural resource,
40:17
as something that's external to ourselves. And
40:22
start to reconnect with this understanding of
40:25
how interconnected everything is and that there
40:27
is no zero sum game here that I can win and you
40:30
can lose. We are all in this together. And if
40:34
we can start to incorporate that more into our
40:38
consciousness, I think that all of the systems
40:43
that we have created, the economic systems, the
40:46
political systems, all of these systems that
40:48
are. products of some of the ideas we've had
40:50
that made sense to us um will shift in such a
40:54
way that they will not be imperiling the whole
40:58
planet and um and ourselves with it along with
41:02
a whole host of other species so um so that for
41:07
me is the crux of it the the what we need to
41:10
shift is our understanding of who we are and
41:13
our role participating in this amazing dance
41:17
of life um and the fact that we think it's about
41:21
having bigger houses and more handbags is pretty
41:24
weird yeah it is pretty weird to me is and and
41:28
we've been on that journey ourselves and really
41:30
looking at and we've talked about it recently
41:32
too even in our you know short time as adults
41:37
on this planet so far it's looking back at looking
41:42
back at you know, what we thought the path had
41:46
to be and what we thought the expectation was
41:49
and where we thought we had to take businesses
41:51
that we were starting or, you know, even just
41:54
our personal lives or who we were as people and
41:56
then pausing even most recently going, OK, hold
41:59
on. What is it actually that we want? Forget
42:03
everything else. Forget. you know, what we feel
42:07
pressure to do. But, you know, what is it actually?
42:11
And that's where, you know, I really like the
42:13
way you put it, that we are nature. Like, of
42:15
course, we're nature. Like, why didn't like,
42:19
of course. Yeah. And that's something that I,
42:21
you know, when we were talking about it, I was
42:22
saying it's that idea that. For some reason,
42:27
whoever it is that invented the way that we normally
42:30
do or the whole host of people that invented
42:33
the way that we know society today, there is
42:36
this idea that you are kind of that is ingrained
42:39
in how society works. Our society is meant to
42:42
work a certain way. It's meant to do a certain
42:44
thing. We're meant to work eight hours a day
42:46
for. Five days a week. We're supposed to only
42:50
take two week vacation. We're supposed to only,
42:52
you know, do all these kinds of things that it
42:56
just kind of comes commonplace. And you just
42:58
feel like, oh, everybody's doing it. So therefore,
43:00
exactly. That's the expectation. That's the thing.
43:03
But never actually to stop and realizing, hang
43:05
on. Is that what I actually want? Is that what
43:08
I actually care about? Is that what I actually
43:10
am meant to do in this earth? Right. Do I want
43:14
to just. follow what everybody else is following
43:18
or do I want to actually you know live the life
43:23
the way that I want to live my life if you will
43:25
right and what does that mean to just ourselves
43:27
but what it means with our relationship with
43:31
everything that is around us right yeah exactly
43:35
and I love this idea of relationship I mean we
43:38
are nothing without being in relation to the
43:42
other thing whether that's each other or the
43:46
planet, whatever. I mean, it's the work we're
43:50
doing, the music we're creating, whatever, whatever
43:54
it is, we are in relation to it. And understanding
43:57
that we are relational beings is so critical.
44:02
And yeah, we've lost sight of that. But one of
44:05
the things that I really take a lot of solace
44:08
in is that there are so many. communities and
44:13
cultures in the world that have have held on
44:16
to maybe wiser understandings of how to do this
44:20
that we yes we are absolutely surrounded by this
44:26
culture in such a way that it has become the
44:28
norm and becomes like the intractable truth of
44:32
the the way it must be which and of course it
44:35
isn't we just thought it up and are starting
44:40
to reckon with some of the inherent contradictions
44:43
and impossibilities of this way of being. But
44:47
there are lots of people who still are doing
44:51
this in much saner ways in the world. And we
44:53
have a lot, I think, to learn from the wisdom
45:00
that has existed in those communities for millennia.
45:06
This, again, using the word hubris, this hubris
45:10
that somehow we can control everything and have
45:14
it all figured out and know all the answers and
45:16
we just need more of that is, no, actually, we
45:22
had it all figured out in much saner ways a long
45:28
time ago and then just... ego got in the way,
45:31
I think. Yeah. It's true because, you know, everybody
45:36
knows that nature and the environment, like it's
45:39
not something that you can control, right? Like
45:42
we forecast, oh, tomorrow's going to rain, but
45:44
then it doesn't. And it's like, well, you know,
45:46
it's not, it's not something that can, we can
45:51
just control on a whim, but it's, and it's. I
45:55
guess accepting that, right? I think maybe that's
45:58
a point that a lot of people just don't get is
46:01
how we have evolved society or humanity up to
46:06
this point has been about, like you said, maybe
46:08
potentially about controlling as much of the
46:11
environment, as much of our environment as we
46:13
can so that we have a say in each and everything
46:15
that goes on around us. But that is not the right
46:20
way of looking at it. We, like the world itself,
46:25
life itself is an uncontrollable thing. Things
46:27
happen all the time, good and bad. And it's accepting
46:30
that and being okay with the idea that I can't
46:33
control everything, but I can still function
46:37
in that type of environment because we are meant
46:40
to. It's part of who we are. It's part of how,
46:42
you know, we became what we are. Yeah. Brilliant,
46:45
June. Yes. I feel like I'm really resonating
46:51
literally with what you're saying. That's awesome.
46:54
And I think there's something really liberating
46:58
when you let go of the idea that you think you're
47:00
in control of anything. Nope. And then we come
47:06
full circle back to this, why we need each other
47:09
so much. shit's going to happen. And then we
47:13
need, we need each other. We need to be able
47:15
to, whether emotionally or, Hey, I don't know
47:19
how to, I don't know, do the construction on
47:25
the window that broke, help me, whatever. Like
47:29
we all have really different gifts here. And
47:31
the diversity that we all bring is something
47:34
that we need to. be celebrating and embracing
47:37
as opposed to shunning and the ways in which
47:40
we've othered other groups of people is just,
47:44
I think, also to our own detriment. So yeah.
47:49
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, absolutely. So for Sustainable
47:59
Aurelia and Common Earth, what is the... future
48:04
look like for these organizations? What is it
48:05
that you're looking to accomplish, you know,
48:08
being part of them or what the organization wants,
48:11
you know, ideally in the future for people? So
48:17
if there is any kernel of truth to what I was
48:24
saying about this idea that we've just got some
48:29
strange concepts about what it means to be alive
48:34
and some pretty weird ideas. I guess, ultimately,
48:39
my goal for both organizations and my involvement
48:44
in both is to start to have more people having
48:51
some insights and shifts in how they think about
48:54
things, in how they relate to things. And like
48:59
I said, if that's the foundational piece, because
49:02
once people sort of shift their perspective on
49:05
how they understand that all the choices they
49:08
make are necessarily different, then I feel like
49:12
I will have been have some modicum of success
49:15
if I can just start to influence some people
49:18
to start to shift. And then again, I don't want
49:21
to repeat myself, but coming back to this idea
49:23
of how social we are and how if more of us like
49:27
that starts to have some momentum and then tipping
49:30
points and all of that stuff it starts to each
49:33
one of us can start to participate in that and
49:36
then that helps create a groundswell where we're
49:38
all moving in that direction of um you know to
49:42
me the only thing that makes any sense in terms
49:45
of a response to what we're seeing in terms of
49:48
increased nationalism increased disparities and
49:52
wealth increased um just complete um extractionism
49:59
of the planet at all costs and what that's what
50:02
that's doing and how we're seeing that play out
50:04
in terms of um you know the the floods that happened
50:08
this week in texas devastating we're seeing examples
50:13
of how this is impacting um people and others
50:19
other species um and on a level that's quite
50:25
literally killing us and um and we need so we
50:29
need we need to do this differently a cultural
50:33
change if you will right to be able to make it
50:37
second nature or become like normal to you know
50:42
be one with nature to be part of it to be yeah
50:45
that that's the norm yeah That's not because
50:49
now it's just like I think people hear that and
50:52
kind of there's an often sort of gut reaction
50:58
of eye rolling. It feels a little like, OK, but
51:02
I mean, if that's if that's just at our most
51:06
basic essence, who we are and we we're all a
51:09
bit more aware of that, I think everything shifts.
51:12
And so as corny as it sounds, yes, that. Absolutely.
51:19
So for people that are interested in, you know,
51:23
going through the courses at Common Earth or,
51:26
you know, helping out Sustainable Orillia, where
51:29
can they go and find more information? And what
51:32
is it that they could potentially do that can
51:35
they help, you know, volunteer, become a member
51:38
or donate or something like that? And where can
51:41
they go do it? Okay. You're interested in courses.
51:45
There's always... options available at common
51:49
earth .com and check those out and registration
51:52
is free love for people to sign up go do that
51:56
interested in becoming part of sustainable Aurelia
52:01
The first thing you can do is come on down to
52:03
our event. If this airs before July 26th and
52:07
27th, I don't know. We come to the event down
52:11
at the port and come say hi to us. We really
52:15
love meeting other members of our community.
52:17
We can always use volunteers. We also need some
52:20
more board members. There's been some attrition,
52:23
so can use some help there. And that's at sustainableareli
52:28
.ca. You can find out more information, sign
52:30
up for our newsletter. And I can't encourage
52:36
people enough to get involved. This whole idea
52:39
of it takes a village. So we're all part of this.
52:42
We're all in this together. Yes, come be a part
52:44
of it. Absolutely. Well, thank you very much,
52:50
Sarah, for being part of our podcast. I think
52:52
this was... an amazing episode of a lot of insights
52:57
that I, you know, knew, but actually being able
53:00
to put all of it kind of together in this idea
53:03
of sustainability, I think was really awesome.
53:06
Well, great. I enjoyed it too. Thank you for
53:09
having me. Thank you for listening to the entire
53:12
episode. All the links and info you heard in
53:14
this conversation will be featured in the show
53:16
notes on our website, villagermagazine .ca slash
53:19
podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, consider
53:21
subscribing to our channels like YouTube, Spotify
53:24
or wherever you're listening from so you never
53:26
miss an episode. Thanks again and I'll see you
53:28
next time.