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Knicks-Spurs in NBA Finals, Balancing Analytics and Intuition in Coaching · Hoop Industry Podcast

• Tyler Neal: What's up everybody? It's another edition of the Hoop Industry Podcast. Back for the first time in what feels like a couple months here with Ty Neil, my co-host, live from Twinsburg here at Run Show. We've got a really busy summer ahead of us. Off seasons here, at least for us it is, as the NBA finals roll on. Obviously, a great matchup there. San Antonio, New York, we're gonna get into that. We're gonna get into what's been going on in these playoffs. But honestly, man, I'm just so happy to be in this environment at this point. I've been legitimately tagging along with the Cavs wherever they've gone. in the playoffs, a aside from New York. I did not go to New York with them. But I was in Toronto. I was in Detroit. It's been a hell of a last couple months for me because they were playing every other day. And ⁓ I am mentally and physically exhausted. ⁓ but I am glad to be getting back into the gym. I'm glad to be doing this again. So ⁓ appreciate you having me here and I'm glad to be ⁓ getting this thing back off the ground. Summer's in full swing. We got the the the finals starting tomorrow night. So Really excited for that. Waiting four days in between is no fun. It's the it's the blessing and the curse of the finals is is it's great to watch and you love it and it's awesome. But it's also, well, shoot, after this there's really no basketball to watch and I don't really watch a ton of baseball. So, you know, mid June till really when football starts, I go straight into deep take deep dives into movies and T V shows and So it's it's it's great. I'm excited for the game tomorrow, but also depressed that like, hey, in ten days there's gonna be no basketball to watch. Well, you know what? We gotta get you into golf. All right. That's the only thing. I'm going I'm so excited, dude. I'm going down to Columbus for the memorial tournament this weekend. I've got a lake house and a boat to get to in a few days because it's gonna be in the mid eighties for the first time. Yeah, down in ⁓ Apple Valley, actually. My buddy, ⁓ ever since he's had his kid, haven't seen his face. ⁓ finally. Got a weekend, so ⁓ me and my guys are going down there and we're gonna have a heck of a four days. So nothing like a lake house in the summer. Nothing. Nothing, nothing. But hey, look, summertime, it's not completely basketball list. You are the one that gets into the gym, has to help, you know, all ages, pros, high school, college. ⁓ you also have the basketball tournament, as we know. ⁓ what you've been a part of and has been an experience. you know, part of your exp exciting experience. So it's not completely gone. You just have a little bit of time to to kind of rest and recover. But ⁓ let's start with the playoffs here. I think it's been really fun to watch along the way. That Eastern Conference Finals ⁓ was not great, but the Western Conference Finals with the Thunder and the Spurs, I know there were a few blowouts, but game one and game seven were just some of the best basketball games that I've watched. It's just the transition defense. the the toughness that these teams are bringing, the youth ⁓ I think is honestly the trend of the league right now. A lot of teams lean on athletics, but these other teams coming up, and I think you even saw it last year with Indiana and OKC is just like the harder you hit, the more physical and tough you are, you have a better chance to to win because you're maximizing your possessions, you're playing faster, and there's just more than meets the eye than just putting the ball in the bucket. Sure, yeah, I think ⁓ you know, a lot of folks talked about it last year when the Pacers were kinda making their run and and the style that they were playing. And, you know, we've talked about him on this show before, but Nemhard, right? Like just his impact on the game and their team last year, you know, obviously you have Halliburton and ⁓ and and you know, Miles Turner played so well and everything, but ⁓ it's it was said last year and and it's it's the trend has continued and and it's something we talk about with the guys that we train is it's it's a play hard league and it's a vibes league, right? So you have to be somebody that's willing to to play hard and be physical and put your body on the line. ⁓ and also just just just have that winning vibe about you. Like whatever it takes, a great teammate making the right play, ⁓ that's that's the type of league it is right now. It's funny how it fluctuates and you see trends and come and go and come back and leave again. So it's a play hard league right now. What do you make about everybody crashing the offensive glass? 'Cause I feel like that is the one that's really stuck out to me. Even the shooter. You're looking at guys that aren't getting back and they're just all going towards the rim after after the shot goes up. And I think it can bite you if you're not fully committed to it because you have to cover ninety-four feet of ground to get all the way back. But I feel like that is one of the the more popular trends of the league right now. And we talk about it with Coach Atkinson all the time. Winning the possession game is number one on the list over everything else. Yeah, it's the p it's a possession game. You know, ten years ago, ⁓ when I ⁓ f 2016 when I first came into to the at to the NBA level. It was GTFB. Get the back. And and that was that was the thing. Nobody crashed the boards, right? Now, maybe, you know, guys that you you, you know, ⁓ dictated, hey, this guy, this guy, you guys go, but everybody else GTFB because guys are so good at this level and transition in the open floor and it's like, Hey, I got one guy in front of me and that you know, that's a duck. That's it's a g it's a it's a can of corn, right? So ⁓ it's interesting. So clearly, you know, there's been some some data done that shows that crashing the boards and everybody going, the r the the reward is worth the risk, ⁓ in terms of extra possessions, in terms of points per possession when on those crashes, right? So clearly, ⁓ you know, there's been math done and there's been and ⁓ analytical studies done that shows that that risk ⁓ is worth the reward and it's a possessions game, right? So ⁓ It's interesting though, because again, we just said how trends come and go. Ten years ago, nobody did that in the NBA, right? It was GTFB. We were watching Michigan State and Tom Izzo thinking about why these guys crash and get back and, you know, set your defense up. So it's interesting. It definitely is. Talking about analytics, as I mentioned, been around Kenny Atkinson for a while now. He's been here two years. There were some obvious comments that people took and ran with. I think it got taken a little out of context, but still, in which he said that His team was analytically up two to one in projected score. You wanted to touch on the whole analytics versus feel that kind of realm in coaching. I I just kinda wanted to give you the floor on that one because I I want to come to his defense real quick because there was a question asked to him why his players believed they could win the series against the Knicks when they were down three ⁓ or two ⁓ whatever it was. And so he told them the answers that the player gave him, and it's because their belief or whatever, like that. And then the reporter asked him, Well, what was your answer to that question? And then he said that. It wasn't as if he came out and just said that. But the problem with that though is you can't say that publicly. ⁓ that's with that's the only issue. You might have a little too much transparency with the public in that situation. ⁓ but anyhow, I just wanted to give you the floor on that one because there is, there's a line that you have to tow between Analytical and feel. And I think Mike Brown described that really well ⁓ in that press conference before game four. ⁓ I d I I wish I had that on video because it was such a good, elaborate answer. But ⁓ I'd love to give you the floor here. Yeah, ⁓ you know, first and foremost, I certainly think it was taken out of context. But you know, again, when you're a head coach in the NBA or ⁓ you know, at that level of basketball, you know, y it becomes about messaging, especially in the playoffs. You know, your players listen to what you're saying. you use that platform and and press conferences and in the media to to send a message to your players indirectly, ⁓ to send a message to your opponent subliminally, right? And so I think, you know, again, not that I've ever been an NBA head coach, but and not to play, you know, ⁓ Monday morning quarterback, but you do you certainly have to be careful with your messaging through the media. ⁓ but yeah, it's it's certainly a double edged sword. ⁓ with the analytics, right? And I think we've seen it. ⁓ I think there's enough history, you know, like, you know, you look at the movie, ⁓ th that kind of was a catalyst to this analytics momentum and and craze that we've we we've been in for several years now with Billy Bean and the Oakland A's and the Moneyball, right? Great movie. Good job stalling it. Phenomenal movie. Why are you trying to think of that? Excuse me. ⁓ and in fact, you know, my brother in law was you know, spent seven years as the director of football analytics for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the NFL and ⁓ he runs a private ⁓ analytics firm that that has several ⁓ high major division one college football programs as clients that they're providing data and information and ⁓ analytical reviews of in terms of recruiting and and scouting and so forth. So do I believe in in the value of analytics? Certainly. Who wouldn't? You'd be stupid not to. But as it applies to again, I said earlier it's a play hard league, it's a vibes league. Like as a coach, your main job is to keep keep the vibe high with the players, right? Keep that belief, ⁓ keep them feeling good about what we're doing as a group. And I think you just have to be careful if you go too far into the science, into the analytics, ⁓ instead of feel and look yo, like we're basketball players, right? Like So you gotta do a really good job of bridging the gap. Using that information ⁓ to help those guys improve. And when they see that, they'll buy into it. And I think obviously the Cavs have been one of the best franchises in all of sports and incorporating that. ⁓ but you know, we've seen it, we've seen it several times now. Organizations that have that have leaned all the way into some The Houston Rockets. ⁓ they asked Josh Hart about analytics, I think as a f following up Coach Atkinson's comments and and ⁓ I don't know if this is a direct quote, but he basically said ⁓ you know, like he said Coach Jay Wright at Villanova always used to say ⁓ analytics are are like a a a light post, right? You can lean on ⁓ but they won't get you home at night. Is that what he said? Is that the quote? Yep. Right. So yeah, so you can use it as something that can help guide you and and you can track all right, hey guy. And I think that's what Coach Atkinson was getting at. Like, hey, these are kind of the factors that we go by that we're able to to use to gauge how we're playing. And and if we know like, hey, a good amount of the time i if if our dashboard says these, these, these things Right. We're we're in a good spot. We're gonna have a really good chance to win. But that's not the whole story, right? And clearly that's not the case, you know. I think again, i when you're playing a team like the New York Knicks, like they're just gonna out tough you, right? Like they're they're just grittier than you. They're they're they're just gonna, you know, grind you and bump you and be physical. And when you have a player like Jalen Brunson that just does not take no for an answer, it doesn't tell the whole story. And so, you know, again, it's a double edged sword. It's a great guidance. ⁓ it's really elevated the level of play, not only in basketball, but I feel like other sports. But it but a team that's been you know, again, the Houston Rockets are probably the best example with basically rim attempts and three attempts. Nothing else. Like they wouldn't even let guys How many shots did did Hardin take anywhere between like 12 to 14 feet? Let's take it a step further. Those guys could not go into the Houston Raggets Practice facility and shoot any mid-range shots, even to warm up. It was it was forbidden. So that's all in on something. And it's like, you know, is that the reason that they never got to the finals or got over the hump? No. But up to this point, going all in on that sort of thing and living and dying by that and sort of disregarding the feel and the human aspect to an extent, I think is kind of bitten some teams in the in the butt. So so it's interesting. Asking you this then, like when do you deviate from it? So you always have a game plan going in, right? Like you can look at even in the Browns, right? The best thing that Cleveland did in Kevin Stefansky's tenure was opening drives. They would always march it down the field, score a touchdown. And then when it got to the non script, when it got to things that you had to figure out on the fly once adjustments are made, then he had some some issues trying to to keep up with that. I feel like Kenny is similar in a way to where he has everything on a map. Rotations, you know, amount of minutes out there, whatever plan is started. Like but then once a for example, Mike Brown. ⁓ had Jalen Brunt or had two of his guys doubling both Harden and Mitchell in the first half and even parts of the third quarter. And the announcers were in the broadcast were like, what are you doing? This is just burying you every time because Sam Merrill would hit a three, Dean Wade would hit a three. It was just an opportunity for the Cavs to get open shots. Fourth quarter, Mike Brown went away from that, said screw that, we're not putting two on the ball anymore. We're putting Landry Sham at it and then he's gonna make Donovan Mitchell's life a living hell. Right. So with Kenny, that same game, James Harden's getting burned in ISO every single time. And after six or seven possessions, that's when he started to finally send two and then put Sam Merrill up there. And the thing that was bothering me in that series, and lo and behold, we ended up on the Cavs, so sorry. But the thing that was bothering me on that series, though, was their principles are to pre-switch. Yeah. It's not anything on Dean or or whoever is going ⁓ you know, on the screen or switching, ⁓ that is a strategical thing that they do. ⁓ and they got hardened every single time. And Brunson was like, Yes, please, bring him here, bring him here. When do you deviate from that? When does it start to be something that holds you back? Even even when you were bringing up Josh Hart, Josh Hart, yes, leave him leave him alone. Treat him like someone who can't shoot, or the worst part of that offense out of the five players. Sure. But once he makes like three or four, don't you say, okay, maybe shade towards him a little bit more, maybe just get a little closer to him, don't leave him completely wide open for the next ten shots so that he can go out and shoot twenty two shots and score thirty points or whatever the hell it was? Well, at the end of the day, right, you know, it's basketball, right? And and we used to so coach Sam Jones used to say it all the time, who's now the director of of of Nike the Nike Academy and executive with Nike grassroots, but ⁓ I was w in the Cavaliers organization myself, ⁓ doing G League scouts and you know, he'd say, Guys, now look, like th this is the tendency, but but it's basketball, right? He he's he's he's a professional basketball player. He's probably gonna might make a few. Might still make a few. So ⁓ you know, yeah, I think in in to to Kenny's defense it's interesting like He kinda went with a feel, keeping Harden, you know, like everybody's knee-jerk reaction was get Harden out of there. Get why how can you even have him in the game? Right? W with what was happening defensively. It's not like he was he was making enough shots where you felt like you had to keep him in the game because of on the offensive end, but you know, he went off feel on that. Like, you know, I He's a former MVP. He was the MVP of the league five years ago. I I'm keeping him in. Like, and so that was a feel thing that he went with, as much as we're talking about he's only following the numbers. ⁓ but it's tough. You get in those situations and you know, yeah, if a Josh Hart, I don't even know what he shoots on the season from three, but it's pretty good numbers. So that's tough. So, you know, again, something they saw was said, Hey, we'll live with this. We are not giving this up. They worked in game one. It worked in it worked in game one, but yeah, eventually, like, you know, again, these are professional basketball players. You know, it's if it's a high school game, yeah, like and a kid makes one, throws another one in, this kid is not making three more. Professional basketball players, like, if they get hot, they get in a rhythm, they're they're gonna they're gonna keep making probably, right? I understand percentages leveling out and everything like that, but especially a guy that shot forty percent on the year, so it's tough. It's tough. And a lot of credit too goes to the New York Knicks. Like my guy Mikhail Bridges, he was on fire from the mid-range. He was shooting before game four, he was shooting sixty-one percent in the playoffs. And is not a guy that r typically gets to the rack. These are like nice, ⁓ you know, obviously fadeaway mid-rangers, ⁓ you know, back breaking threes, whatever it was. ⁓ the Knicks in general have been just on this insane tear. There was a stat apparently For a 10-game sample size where their offense was equivalent to that of the 1987 Lakers, which I think is an insane comparison. But if you look at the numbers and how how much they've been stomping on their competition, I feel like we also get away from the fact that that team is clicking right now. And I mean, in general, I mentioned Mikkel, but you have OG Ananobi who had to fight through some hamstring issues, but he is he is a strong dude. He makes some really tough shots and he also can put the ball on the floor and defend the heck out of you. Like he was doing such a good job of again going back to adjustments. Mike Brown seeing that Evan al always wants to make a play out of the short roll. He had OG just stick his hand out every time because he knew Evan was kicking to the corner or kicking out because he wasn't looking to score right away. Right? O. G was amazing at that. Mention Landry Shamit. He shut down Donovan so, so much. ⁓ Gotta give Kat a lot of credit too, man. He was putting the ball on the floor a lot. In the first couple rounds, he was being used as a playmaker, but he was putting it on the floor more. He's using his shoulder, being aggressive, ⁓ really crashing glass. I think that they've really taken a step forward here. And I'm I'm intrigued by the finals. But if you have any thought on thoughts on the Knicks before we get into that. Well, quite simply put, you know, you you've heard ⁓ everybody talk about it. It's it's the, you know, statistically speaking, the the greatest. up to this point, ⁓ playoff run in history in terms of consecutive wins, number of double digit wins total, I think in a row even. ⁓ they're playing unbelievable basketball heading into the finals. We'll see because I feel like the Spurs are too. You know, I feel like after you know ⁓ kind of halfway through the the Western Conference finals, like they they really found something and and, you know That was a tough series in terms of just getting beat up. Holy hell, yes it was. And they beat the heck out of each other. And so it'll be interesting to see how much that affects them going into the finals versus the Knicks, who well, pretty healthy other than, you know, the Mitchell Robinson ⁓ pinky injury ⁓ but you know, in terms of fresh legs and So it's interesting to see does is fresh legs better and be able to to be off for a week or eight days, or hey, we just played three, four days ago, we're in rhythm, we we still got our momentum. Which one is more beneficial? And there's no there's no answer. We'll see, we'll see tomorrow night. The old rest versus rust conundrum. And what's crazy is in that game one, the Cavs completely dominated until the seven minute mark. So so maybe that does give San Antonio a bit of an advantage because the Knicks haven't played in like a week. So Sure. That is definitely something on the mind. Spurs Thunder series. Like, I just have to talk about this because it was so fun to watch, first of all, just the youth of the league that we were talking about. And I think the competitive fire that was in that series kind of took me back a little bit. Like that's something you see a lot of players are buddy buddy. You know, they're they're not as ruthless and aggressive towards one another. Wemby and Chet. Do not like each other, either side. It goes back to the U 19s overseas. You know, Chet gets the MVP or whatever it was, Wemby's side eyeing them, and that's where that all starts, right? ⁓ I think Shea Gilgus Alexander having the MVP probably rubbed Wemby the wrong way, I'm sure, as well. ⁓ you have just straight dogs out there with Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper, by the way, rookie. No, that's a free agency addition to me, man. He is a tough son of a gun. ⁓ and then and then a guy like Keldon Johnson, you know, buying his role off the bench after being a starter for so many years and being sixth man of the year. Like the Spurs are tough. I want to give the Thunder all the credit in the world. I think Casey Wallace doesn't get talked about nearly enough how good that guy is defensively and just being a big time shot maker. They obviously have some questions around what their future looks like because they're gonna be hitting that sep second apron. ⁓ here soon, and they have a boatload of draft picks because Sam Prestey is a genius. ⁓ but ⁓ that series in general, before we get to the finals, man, like I I just would love to know what your takeaways from that was. Cause as I mentioned earlier, the transition defense, the toughness, ⁓ the the element of just pure hoops. Like, game one, I think, was the best playoff game that I've watched in quite some time, and maybe even like a decade, to be honest. Like, that was when When Wemby pulled up and hit that three in transition, just like Steph did in the same building ten years before that, I was just like, What is going on right now? How is this game? It shouldn't have gone overtime, first of all, because the Thunder had an opportunity and ⁓ Jay Jay Will took that shot trying to shot him out of it. It was it was the mid range and yep. Yeah. ⁓ but that game, I was just like, ⁓ my gosh, I need seven of this. And we got seven of it. ⁓ but I think the best ones were definitely one and seven in that one. Yeah. Well, it great to see, it was refreshing. Yeah. Refreshing to see, you know, hey, look, we you know, it's great that we all like each other and, you know, once the season's over, you know, we see each other at Summer League and this and that and that's all cool. But it's great to see more of a a a cutthroat attitude. Real heat ⁓ competitive spirit and like, yo, I'm going at you not to say that that hasn't happened in the years past, but You know, that that felt a little more like like what we grew up with and and watching, you know, guys in the late night. Like KG and and and into the two thousands and just yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so ⁓ it was refreshing. Yeah, I I just had so much fun watching those two go at it. The crowds that were dueling as well, like it was just a a different kind of experience, I think, watching that series. And I was joking with my friends. I was like, That was the NBA final, sorry. Because ⁓ a lot of people are assuming that the Knicks can't do it. But as you said earlier, you have that kind of intensity, you have that kind of physicality, ⁓ overtime game, you know, you have all of that tread on the tires, you might run out sometime. But the problem with that argument is that there's a guy who's seven foot six, ⁓ blocking you on the weak side, blocking you as a rim protector, ⁓ somebody that doesn't even need to jump to to dunk. ⁓ can pull up from thirty five apparently, playmake for his teammates. ⁓ it's just it's it's hard to get someone like that out of the game. But hey, you know, the Thunder got three games out of ⁓ So why can't the Knicks the way that they're going offensively? ⁓ but but like but like you said, it it's gonna be tough ⁓ to keep that that guy from from getting what he wants. Yeah, it's interesting. I you know, it's like I think I think it feels like it's it's the Spurs to win. ⁓ Obviously they knocked off the defending champs and ⁓ and and the the the back to back MVP and and I think what was clearly the best the it's been the best team in the NBA for for the last whatever eighteen months, right? And so and just how how well they're playing and and you know, what do you do with Wemby? Like how do you how do you beat him? ⁓ he's already a problem, but now that all the other pieces are are clicking and it's all come together like What do you do with that? So I think it's but but but on the other side you got you know the the Knicks they're just they're not they're not just gonna go away. They're not, you know, y they're if there's one team that's just gonna be like, yo, like we're just gonna keep coming at ya and and we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get a couple. They're they are gonna win a couple and it's just gonna be a matter of I think, you know, I think Mitchell Robinson's status and and if he's able to play. He got twelve offensive rebounds against the Spurs at the NBA Cup, by the way. And and just that, you know, that's a big body. And and he is not, you know, like you talk about guys just when you're bumping into him all game. I mean, he is he is like you feel that, right? He's one of those guys where like you're bumping with him all game, like like that adds up, right? And so I Everything else aside, like not having him. So so I think that's a very important factor. I really do. So so we'll see what happens with him. I haven't seen any updates today, but you know, if if he's unable to play, that's really gonna hurt the Knicks. So I think that's a big factor. ⁓ and it's just gonna come down to what do you do with Wemby? So like, you know, like the Thunder, you know, they they tried Caruso on him. They did a pretty good job up until the end of that fourth quarter in game one and then in the overtimes, right? Then, you know, they they tried Putting Hartenstein on him and and and being physical and and and kind of trying to bully him. You know. Did it work? I you know, it's just nothing's gonna work, but how do you go about it? So it'll be interesting. It'll I'm really, really looking forward to see how this plays out. I'm so ready for the chess match between Mike and ⁓ Who's got the advantage? Coaching advantage. You know, I'm just gonna say Mike because he's he's been there. He's been there not only as a head coach, he's been there as an assistant coach probably multiple times because he was a part of the Warriors staff, right? He's had a lot of experience in situations like that. He doesn't get enough credit. I think I think ⁓ I think people were overly hard on him. ⁓ his f ⁓ first stint in Cleveland with with Lebron and taking a looking back How did that team make the finals? I th ⁓ we know how, but did a great job there, you know. ⁓ went to the Lakers. I believe they they won the division, were in first place when he got fired. Was that Kobe Powell team? Yep, they replaced him with Mike Dantoni. That's right. ⁓ kinda kinda had a hiatus from a head coaching seat and was a phenomenal assistant with ⁓ with the Warriors and was the associate head coach there for some championships. ended up getting the the sack job. That's why I love this series because the Aaron's on the other side. He did a phenomenal job in Sack. I mean I mean, took him to the playoffs for the first time in in fifteen years. Very fun team, man. Sabonis, you had Murray, you had Fox. Yeah. They they were up tempo and they were a problem until the playoffs came around. But that was also 'cause they were inexperienced at that point. And now here he is take taking a a another franchise to the NBA Finals who hasn't been there since you know, nineteen ninety nine. So I think he he doesn't get enough credit and and the fact that he's been in the league this long and ⁓ ha you know, he's to to stick around this long, right, in all those different decades of basketball and continuing to adapt and adjust to the the players and how the game's played and to stay ahead of the curve, y there's something to you. So again, ⁓ Mitch has done up obviously a phenomenal job and ⁓ And I you know, I've met him a few times just just you know, kind of being around in in in the the NBA circles and ⁓ great dude and done an unbelievable job, but I have to give the the coaching nod and advantage in this series to Mike Brown. How couldn't you? Right. And how poetic is it though, the place where he started off as a video coordinator. Yeah. Right. Yeah, he's and he's facing off the top disciple and and that's how so, you know, ⁓ Great coach. That's all I can say. Great two great coaches. I'm I'm just looking forward to it, like I was saying earlier, man. Like him versus De'Aaron Fox. There is obviously kind of not I don't know if it's a falling out, but disagreements there. And then obviously Fox got traded. Just how funny is it? The work the world works out that way that you end up facing off against the guy that you were coaching beforehand. I I love those irony. I love those little stories, man. And I I mean, it's really hard for me to say like that, like 'cause I'm unbiased. I do like Mike Brown. I would love Mike Brown to win a title. I also have a friend, Matt Reebok, on that staff, ⁓ in New York. ⁓ it's just it's just hard for me to say that I can ever root for the Knicks. ⁓ but I also like I just wanna see good basketball. Yeah. That's it. I don't have it. I wanna yeah. I wanna see good basketball. ⁓ the last four or five years I've really the Knicks have sort of become my favorite team. Yeah. ⁓ I really like watching Jalen Brunson. I love the The Villanova guys and and just their toughness and their grittiness and and and just just the winners that they've become, ⁓ in term you know, Brunson and and Bridges and Josh Hart and ⁓ so I want the I'm pulling for the Knicks, but ⁓ I'm okay if the Spurs win. Yeah. Last thing on the Knicks. Everyone was so excited because Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey were at that building in game three or game four, whatever it was. I was like fanboying out 'cause Stefan Marberry was right in front of me. And then Alan Houston walked by and I'm just like, Holy hell, this is my childhood. This is awesome. It's it's been cool. No, it's been really cool to see the you know, the former ⁓ superstars and kind of the the Mount Rushmore faces of each franchise. showing up, you know, the one game, I mean Sprewell was there, John Starks and and they're not just there. They're not up in a suite. Those guys were down by the court and Pat you hollering and and jumping up. So that was awesome to see. And then, you know, obviously you got ⁓ Tim Duncan's been around and David Robinson and and and watching the game with Coach Pop. Really cool to see. It's it's it's it's been awesome playoffs so far. A hundred percent. Gotta give a shout out To our guy Mike Gansy getting the president job over with the Sixers. Couldn't be more thrilled for him, man. I know you got stories of Gansy, but just as someone who I talk browns with him all the time. I talk obviously he's someone that's from here. It's awesome to see his growth throughout. Met him when he was with the charge with Brendan Yu. I remember the first story I did was on Billy Preston, and he was the one that gave me the first kind of quotes. And that was probably, I wanna say almost ten. Twenty eighteen. No, yeah, eight yeah, eight years ago or so. So ⁓ it's been awesome to see his ascent. He's been an awesome general manager for the Cavs. He's been growing as well as his hair. I just love the picture that they posted for who he got the job. You're gonna see someone completely different. He's got a beard, he's got the the hair growing like Max Struuss. I was joking with him. He's got you him and Max Rabbit Company. He does look like Bob Huggins a little bit. ⁓ The the facial hair, not not anything else. I love it though. I'm happy for Gansy, man. ⁓ it's it's gonna suck not having him around, but very well designed. I mean I lear so so so Mike hi hired me and and is the r the reason I got into ⁓ the NBA in the G League and ⁓ he hired me ⁓ in twenty sixteen I was at Akron and made that transition ⁓ as video coordinator for the charge and he was the GM of the charge at the time, transitioned into ⁓ you know, I think director of scouting, for the Cavs, obviously assistant GM and then finally general manager, but ⁓ spent almost seven years with him and by far ⁓ if one of the if not the best leader I've been around and just learned a ton from him in in terms of how to manage people and and just how to create a a great culture. ⁓ whether it's with a team or a business or just just an unbelievable people person and people manager and really great eye for the game, obviously. And ⁓ you know, I've said it anybody that's worked closely with him, says the same thing. Like, he's gonna be a great guy to to run a team, an NBA franchise, and and I expect nothing But great things to come for the seventy sixers, ⁓ with Mike Gansy running the show. For for non ball knowers, he was a sniper at Bonnie's and then he went to West Virginia and you were talking about Huggy. He was you know. No, he was a great player and and I remember watching those West Virginia teams as a kid played for ⁓ legendary coach obviously John Beeline when they made their Elite Eight run with Mike Gansy, Kevin Pit snogle. ⁓ Who else was on that team? Was Deshaun Butler there or was that Huggy? No. No, that was ⁓ anyway, I still, you know, remember watching his West Virginia teams. ⁓ unfortunately, I think he ⁓ as he was was was giv going through the process of of playing in the NBA, I think he got a bad ⁓ like MRSA infection in his knee, ⁓ and and cut his playing career short, but Got right into the Cavaliers front office and has been there ever since. ⁓ I think since since since twenty when would that have been, Spence? Twenty er or two thousand six, seven, you know. So he's been there a long time. He's from Cleveland. ⁓ I actually remember watching him play in high school in a regional game at Savage Arena at the University of Toledo. He was playing John Debler and Upper Sandusky Rams. My dad took me. I was a kid. And I'll never forget this. Two great teams, two legendary Ohio players and Mike Gansy and John Deebler. John Debler busts his nose, breaks his nose in the in the second quarter. Thought that was it. Everybody, you know, kind of came to watch him and and I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it. Gansy's team was winning. ⁓ late third quarter, you you would you would have thought that that ⁓ that Elvis had came back and was walking through the tunnel the way the crowd reacted for a high school player, John Debler, comes back, mask on. You know, this is thirty minutes after he broke his nose to pieces. I mean got drilled, and here he comes. Like it was like the savior is here. And and they come back and they they win the I believe Suberson Desky won the game. And ⁓ obviously his brother Jake Debler was playing in that game, ⁓ who's now the head coach of Ohio State who ⁓ is doing a great job, I think. And so ⁓ great memory there for me as it applies to to Mike Gansy. And John, of course, being the the the the sniper that he was with the buckeyes as well. So a lot of Connection there with Deebler and the Buckeys. But yeah, congrats to Gansy. We're extremely happy for you, man. And we know we're gonna go kill it over with the Sixers. Other news that's happened, not gonna get too much into NBA draft lottery reform because we don't know what the hell it means, but that has been changed. That's for the analytics guys. That is for the analytics guys. Let's get into some of the guys that you've brought in here as we close out the show. ⁓ bringing in everybody now that it's the offseason, what you're working on. things that you want to get to in terms of skill set and in terms of who's been in the gym and all that good stuff? Yeah, no, so ⁓ so we've we've you know for for over a month now we've had ⁓ a lot of our college guys back in town training with us, ⁓ some professional guys and ⁓ and some really interesting and and good young high school players as well. You know, so it's been fun. We've been busy, it's been fun. but we're we're in full swing now. This is probably our busiest time of the year in terms of ⁓ not only our members in our facility and and younger players being at it, but ⁓ again, we got we've had several pro guys. ⁓ you know, Jalen Slaussen who finished the year with the Pacers and and made some unbelievable strides and You know, look look for him to to to get a ⁓ you know, he's on a two way right now, but somebody that's really trending up and I think you're gonna think at the end of the You know, ⁓ Miles Kelly, same same thing. Start of the year ⁓ in Dallas on a two way contract with them, you know, just just trending in the right direction, keep that name ⁓ don't forget that name here in the next eighteen months. Dacian Nix is in town who we've worked with a ton. Who else, Spence? Who have I missed? man, there's been a lot of ⁓ You know, we've had ⁓ Trey Cady here who ⁓ is going to the University of Denver, has been training with us for about a month and it really improving and and working hard. ⁓ Michi Johnson, local legend. ⁓ getting you know, doing his pre draft work in in collaboration with with Ant Wells who's who's probably, you know, the best ⁓ professional trainer I've seen and been around and had the chance to learn from. We'll get his ass on the show. We'll get him on here. We're gonna do some interesting collaborations with him as well in Northeast Ohio. ⁓ you know we were able to have Marcus Johnson in here. The ⁓ again ⁓ what a family what a talk about Mason Broyles being in the gym too much you one of the best eighth graders in the country. It's a honestly an unbelievable family Marcus, Michi, Mason, and just how talented they are but also like just how great they are as people So really been lucky to work with that whole family. ⁓ Damon Friary was here a couple times the last few weeks. Still Dayton. Dayton Flyer. ⁓ won ⁓ at least one state championship at St. Ignatius. ⁓ we've had ⁓ who's who? A lot of guys, you know, we've had some great young players. ⁓ Jeron Salisbury that's ⁓ committed to Ole Miss and starting on campus there this week. ⁓ I'm missing a few, I know I am, but ⁓ but it's been a great start to the summer and ⁓ you know a lot of those guys are with our partnership with ⁓ Varis basketball and Aaron Turner, so we're thankful to them and ⁓ it's a great partnership for us and ⁓ so yeah, it's been it's been a busy Spring and summer, but ⁓ it's not stopping. So this this is a great time of year for us. See it's not so bad that basketball stops though, because your basketball doesn't stop. When the real basketball stops, that's when when basketball really gets going. That's what I'm saying, man. So you guys are obviously on the trend word up ⁓ trend upward here. ⁓ just real quick, when you're doing all that stuff and you're trying to balance what you've got going on at the facility here, like what is the challenge for that as somebody that's running the program, running the show, if you will, gonna use that one too. ⁓ Because you've got to be in two places at once half the time. ⁓ yes and no, you know, ⁓ that's why you hire great people and and we have a great staff, ⁓ with with Kevin, Christy, Jamil Cosby, Hunter Sherati, and David Ford, Kareem Butler, ⁓ Big Tristan's been helping us and ⁓ so that's why you ha you bring in great people and so we're pretty organized and ⁓ we've we've been in this facility and we've have our systems in place. So ⁓ You know, yeah, it's it's ⁓ a lot of moving pieces, but ⁓ but it it runs it runs smooth. You know, we've been in here to this facility a year. Our Pittsburgh facility is a is a ⁓ well oiled machine going on ⁓ three years in that one. And so again, it's no different than than building a basketball program or a an organization. You you bring in great people that work, that are smart, ⁓ that are organized and and you build a culture. And next thing you know, you get to a point and and and the damn thing runs itself. And so ⁓ we're trending in that direction and we're just gonna keep working and keep growing and keep bringing good people in here. Any events or camps or deals you wanna run by anybody here? We have our ⁓ our Nike basketball camps coming up. We have ⁓ June twenty second through the twenty fifth. our Nike camp at ⁓ just down the street here at Western Reserve Academy. ⁓ that same week we're we're hosting one ⁓ at Carson Middle School in ⁓ in Pittsburgh area. ⁓ we have one in July up ⁓ up in Pepper Pike at Ursland College. We have a second one in the Pittsburgh area in July, and then we're wrapping it up the last week of July with our Nike basketball camp up at Andrews Osborne Academy in Willoughby, Ohio. So those things are going on. We'll continue to have a lot of these college and and and pro guys in and out throughout the summer. ⁓ Sure, I missed something, but you know, that's kind of what's going on. And we're just always looking to grow and and do new things and ⁓ provide new opportunities for for all players. Fantastic. Keep building, keep growing. Gotta love it. All right, guys, that's gonna do it for this edition of the Hoop Industry Podcast. Hopefully you liked hearing us again. It's been a little while, and we'll be back more often and with more episodes this summer. Don't you worry. But until then, be sure to take care and thanks for listening to the Hoop Industry Podcast.