Latest / ShameOver - The Drink Less Podcast / Regulating Your Nervous System Without Alcohol
Transcript
- Erica And ShameOver: Hello and welcome back to part three of my conversation with Jessica Tanner. And honestly, this has been such a juicy one. Today we are talking about nervous system regulation and why so many of us drink to cope, to numb or de-stress. And also what it looks like to find other ways to actually support yourself instead of just shutting everything down for the night. We also get into plant medicine and intention setting, emotional processing, and some really practical tips around non-alcoholic drinks. I just loved this conversation so much and I am so grateful to Jessica for being here and for sharing so openly. this episode spoke to you or if this series spoke to you, ⁓ sure and connect with Jessica. I'll link everything in the show notes so you can find her and follow her ⁓ learn more about her work and her retreats. I know it sounds so amazing the one she has coming up. And you are someone who knows that it's time to change your relationship with alcohol in a way that feels supportive, ⁓ shame-free, and I know, crazy. Come find me. This is exactly the work that I do. Thank you for being here. Thanks for listening and I'll catch you on the next episode of Shame Over. Cheers. and drinking less in social situations. So if you've ever felt like alcohol was your way to just take off the edge to quiet the noise a little bit, this episode is definitely for you. jump in. Jessica Tanir: The more I've gone down this rabbit hole of working with plants and plant medicine, it's continued to make me trust more. in the plants and just like also myself. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah, that's it. That's really, really beautiful. So where I guess if someone was interested in it, like where would they even start? What what would you recommend for even like getting started with something like this? Jessica Tanir: Ooh, getting started. think first figuring out maybe like what plant it is you want that you feel called to work with first, right? And especially if it's like a psychedelic plant, I feel like there are a few that are a little more to start with versus others. ⁓ I know like ayahuasca has like a pretty strong reputation, right? ⁓ And, ⁓ Erica And ShameOver: But is it the easiest to start with or just more the most well known? Yeah. Jessica Tanir: ⁓ no, I don't I don't think so. I think like you need to be a little more like open and ready to loosen the grips maybe before someone would go drink ayahuasca and like or not I mean everyone's different but I just think be prepared for whatever experience you're gonna have good or good bad in between Erica And ShameOver: Sure. And I'm sure, especially with good intentions, most people do probably have positive experiences, even if it's not like, this is what's going to happen, it never goes according to plan. But I'm sure very few experiences are not good. Jessica Tanir: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. From my experience, I just, even if it's like a quote unquote bad experience, because we always want to add labels, like there might still be so much juice in that experience that that was, you had that experience for a reason to show you something, right? And it's just like that in everyday life. If you get fired or like, you get broken up with like out of nowhere, like some of these things that happened to us, like it feels so awful in the moment, but oftentimes it's redirecting us to something Erica And ShameOver: That's Jessica Tanir: better or something we're meant to go and do or the person we're actually meant to be with. And so I think it's very similar when you're in ceremony with plants and you're having these experiences and they feel really big and uncomfortable, but oftentimes they're helping show you something and redirecting you to maybe a part of yourself you need to look at or like things you need to let go of or whatever it is that comes up during, you know, your ceremony. Erica And ShameOver: Yes. Well, and you said earlier, I forgot your exact quote, but you said like, what needs to come up will. So it's not necessarily what you want to, but what needs to. Jessica Tanir: Yeah. Yes, exactly. Because there's so many times like I've worked with plants and I'm like, I want like I want to focus on this. And it's like, they're like, ⁓ cool. Okay, but actually, you need to see this first. And like, you don't even realize that, right? Because we're always trying to live in like such a linear fashion, but we and we're like, ⁓ well, we have to do this to get to there and vice versa, whatever. sometimes they're like, ⁓ actually, you needed to see this before you could even go there. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. Jessica Tanir: And like, yes, your intention was that, like, maybe you have to see these things first, then to go do whatever it is the intention was or see. Yeah. Erica And ShameOver: Exactly. So you've brought up intention a bunch of times. I want to ask you about this because I know me personally, sometimes I can even still find it hard to find an intention. assuming that it sounds like that's probably maybe never been a problem for you, or at least, know, obviously not in the recent time. But how do you work with your clients as far as even just finding something as simple as what is your intention? Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I like to try to keep it simple first off it's I normally actually when I'm working with them and like if we have some time apart I always have them try to find three intentions three things that they want to focus on and ⁓ putting like so many parameters on what that looks like but just Keeping them very simple and like okay What are three things that you really want to put your focus to over like the next two weeks of us not? Erica And ShameOver: Okay. Jessica Tanir: meeting and like, maybe helping them in cultivating whatever intention. Usually I feel like they at least have one or two, right? That they're like, I need to work on this or I need to bring focus to this. then through when you are working with someone one-on-one, you know, when you're in the other seat, there's a lot more that you get to see from them or like that you can pull out and be like, ⁓ actually you kept like you just said like where I keep saying intention, right? You can like extract that and then help guide them to maybe what it is they do need to focus on or like what would benefit them. Erica And ShameOver: And I always remind myself as well as my clients, stop over-complicating things. Like a lot of times it's so easy. Like for, you know, almost all the mindfulness meditations that I do, it's like set an intention. And a lot of times, like my intention is just to feel more peaceful afterward. Like it doesn't have to be anything big crazy. Like whatever first comes to mind, go with that. Cause it's coming out for a reason. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. We're fine. Mm-hmm, exactly. Mm-hmm. Or even I feel like the one that I always like to come back to is like being present. Just like that, like that could be your intention for the rest of your life and that would be just fine because there's so much in just being right in the present moment and not like wandering off to like wherever it is that your mind typically goes. Erica And ShameOver: I truly think that that is like the secret to life is learning how to actually be present and be here. Cause it's, mean, even back to like drinking or any, you know, so many of the other things that we do to, that we consume to like numb or cope or deal with just stress, bad feelings, life in general. So much of that comes down to if we could just sit and be present with it, the discomfort passes a lot faster. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, it is. ⁓ Mm-hmm. It does. Because it's, I had a friend recently say the things that she procrastinate, she realizes she's teaching her body to fear them, like fear those things. And I was like, that's so true. Because yeah, and like when you put off the things or when you're not just present, and then as soon as you're present with the thing, like you're saying you can actually process and then like you're like, Oh, actually, it wasn't it wasn't as bad. But like, this story, this narrative in your mind of like, Erica And ShameOver: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I always think of it like this. Jessica Tanir: ⁓ it's going to be this, this or that. Yeah. Erica And ShameOver: It's, yeah, it always feels like this like big scary monster. And then when you actually like are present with it, you're like, ⁓ you're actually cute, cuddly little guy. You just look scary, you know, but it's like you have to get there. And I know you and I have both had big losses just recently. And we were talking before this about not drinking during this time. Like we are feeling it, I think, a lot more because of that. But I also think we'll like Jessica Tanir: Okay. Thank Erica And ShameOver: get through a lot of the mourning and grief because we're actually allowing ourselves to have those feelings. Where I know if this had happened previously when I was drinking heavily, I would have just been drinking that I wouldn't have even noticed. Granted, would have been probably way more anxious and depressed because that's what alcohol does, ⁓ but wouldn't have known it because I would have just been drinking every night to ⁓ take edge off type thing. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank I know and those feelings don't go anywhere like unless like you actually like feel and process them and release them out of the body in whatever way that looks for you because I think it looks differently for everyone like they're still there. They're still living there. And yeah, I know I shared that with you. I'm like, I feel like you're a warrior. Like our society, if you're going through life right now, completely sober or like you are choosing even if you're choosing in those hard moments like maybe like Erica And ShameOver: No! Yep. Serious? Jessica Tanir: example for you, like you still drink here and there, but like you're choosing in those difficult moments to still not pick up a drink. And like that as a bandaid for how you're feeling. Erica And ShameOver: Yes, my really completely shifted things for me was when I stopped drinking for negative emotions. ⁓ if I knew ⁓ one I was obviously I'd become a much more mindful drinker there, like knowing when I was drinking, why I was drinking. But more than that, it was is this, you know, and even boredom can be that's a negative emotion. Like if you're bored, do something else. You don't need to drink, you know. But if you're sad, if you're angry, if you're stressed, like any of those reasons. Jessica Tanir: Hmm. Thank Erica And ShameOver: the worst thing you should do during those times is drink if you're sad, you're anxious, if you're depressed. Jessica Tanir: Because it's going to exacerbate that. Erica And ShameOver: Exactly. And in the moment we feel like it's making us feel better. But like you said, like our emotions are still there. So the reason why you have this anxiety the next day or why you feel more anxious or more depressed, it's, it's going to come out. It just depends when and where. the more you drink, it's just going to make that eruption way bigger when it finally happens. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Exactly. when it catches up to you, like later on, yeah. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. So I guess one last thing that I'm curious about since you guys have found so much success and you know going on two plus years now of your sobriety. What if you can even remember back to the beginning like what things did you do to help early on to make it easier and how have you found success that's kept you with this great mindset here now? Jessica Tanir: I think the number one thing that has kept me going is knowing that I'm not gonna ever be hungover. And like that was like my driving thing. Cause one of the last times I drank before I decided to like go the year sober, I had such a bad hangover. It was like so bad. And I was like sick until like 9 p.m. the next day. And I just really kept coming back to that. And like, I don't wanna feel that way. And then the other thing, that really helped me was finding other things to sip on to still feel like I get to celebrate. And as someone who spent a decade behind the bar, like crafting cocktails is what I did for so long. bringing in now this, all these other different non-alcoholic alternatives that I could play with and create non-alcoholic cocktails and create these different like elixirs to sip on. is so important because it makes you feel like you're still included in the celebration. You're still included when you're going out. And I know for me, like when I go out, I still like to have something fun to drink that's not water or sparkling water or love of God, a non-alcoholic mojito. Like I actually want something that's going to live up to what I used to drink. And thankfully we live at a time that there are so many options available. I think there is a little bit of a Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. Yes. Jessica Tanir: we are getting better of having those options in the restaurant and the bars, but there is still like a little bit of a lag, I think, just from, feel like in my opinion, it's like kind of like ego of some of these like bars that are like, if you're in the bar, you need to drink. But I'm like, eventually they're all gonna, they're all gonna have these options. So I think like finding those options and then also the ones that actually have like the nootropics, the adaptogens, Erica And ShameOver: Yes. ⁓ Jessica Tanir: things that are gonna actually make you feel something from the drink or like relax you, but they're doing it naturally versus how alcohol would like relax your brain. Cause it's quite literally shutting your brain off. Now you can use natural plants that are helping your body actually adapt to the stress, right? Like Ashwagandha has been like a huge one for me because it's actually helping my body come back to equilibrium when I am stressed, which is usually why people are grabbing alcohol. Erica And ShameOver: Yes. ⁓ Yeah. Jessica Tanir: in the first place, right? Like they want to de-stress. So it's like trying to educate yourself on what are all these different plants out there that I can utilize that are gonna be beneficial to my body and come back to from that stressful state without having to ⁓ alcohol. Erica And ShameOver: ⁓ my gosh, we need to do like a part two of this because my big focus has recently been like on the nervous system because so much of our drinking is to regulate. Like you said, we're trying to de-stress ourselves. At the end of the day, we're trying to regulate and we just don't even realize that that's what we're trying to do. Jessica Tanir: Okay. And we've never been even taught to regulate. that's like, that's a whole other thing too, that I'm like, people don't even understand how, like what it feels like to be regulated or what they need to do to regulate. Erica And ShameOver: Exactly! No. Exactly. It took me having children to learn that exactly. So I'm very impressed you are way ahead of the game. And to your point on the restaurants, like I completely agree. I will say make it a point. Like ⁓ I've been a little disappointed because I'm like, you know, I'm going to have my espresso martini or my dirty martini. Like those are, those are my, if I'm going to go out, ⁓ kind of over whine. Like it's just, I want a great, great cocktail. ⁓ then I'll see this like, Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Do I choose? ⁓ Erica And ShameOver: really good mocktail menu that's not just like you said, a mocktail mojito or whatever. Um, we were at Del Frisco's last month for like Valentine's day and they do know Aplos. They're one of my faves. They had them on the menu in a, in a mocktail or I forget they had like a nicer name for it, but I'm like, I have to do this. Like, even though I'm here, like this, I'm, if we want them to have nice Jessica Tanir: here. Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Listen. Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: options that are non-alcoholic, we have to buy them. You know, so that is the one thing I always tell people like for a nice refreshment that is not just alcohol because at end of the day, bars and restaurants, all they care about is money. They make the most money on alcohol. They make a lot of money on the non-alcoholic options because that stuff costs a lot. So for those that are complaining about, ⁓ not going to get the buzz from it. Why am I paying for it? Because you're not going to feel like crap tomorrow. Jessica Tanir: Yes, exactly. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Erica And ShameOver: you Jessica Tanir: Mm And also depending on like what the like what the NA spirit is, you might feel the buzz because there's a few out there that you have, like the Lions me and Ashwagandha the different adaptogens that you will feel something from and my tip is always even if they don't have a menu still ask because there's so many places I've gone to where they actually have like some of my favorite non alcoholic spirits, but they don't even have it on the menu anywhere. And I'm like, why don't you guys? Why aren't you listing this? Erica And ShameOver: Exactly. Yes. Yes! Yes. Jessica Tanir: like Lyra's like spritz there's like this one Italian restaurant I go to they don't have it listed anywhere but they carry it and I'm like why aren't you guys listing this because like otherwise people aren't going to know to ask I know to ask because like I was a bartender and I know they don't list everything that you have behind the bar on the menu Erica And ShameOver: Exactly. Yeah. Ugh. So I guess final tips from a previous bartender, what would you recommend to people? Because I, again, I'm an open book. I don't care. I would totally let the bartender know. Like I am having two drinks no more. Like you, no matter if I ask you to change my mind, like, no, you can charge me for it. Do not pour it, you know, like get them involved if you need the, especially early on. but any tips that you would recommend from a bartender. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: on how you could utilize them to help you not drink or drink less or anything along those lines. Jessica Tanir: Maybe have them ask them like, you give me a water between each drink? Like I think like taking that pause between drinks is very important. And like having the water you could also ask like, maybe they could take like a normal cocktail that would have like two ounces of alcohol, maybe ask them to split it up. And like, then you could have two drinks even though technically Erica And ShameOver: very much. Jessica Tanir: It's like one drink because that's how much alcohol is in it. Not all of them are going to be crazy about this. It's going to like depend on like how busy they are and how their night's going maybe, but some of them might work with you. Erica And ShameOver: I feel, yeah, read the room on that note for sure. Like go over complicated again, or make it more of a stressful situation for anyone. But yeah, I definitely go ahead. Jessica Tanir: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I was gonna say it lastly too like if they do have those non-alcoholic options Maybe like you do an alcoholic drink for the first round and the second round you switch to a non-alcoholic one and that way you you're still getting to enjoy different beverages, but You're also making sure you don't feel like crap the next day Erica And ShameOver: Yes. A lot of times I always recommend starting with a booze free option because a lot of times that like scratches the edge. But even at like when, when we did Del Frisco's, I did my espresso martini first and then switched to that. But it's, it felt so elevated. Like I wasn't, I didn't feel the need to keep going, you know? So it's like having those really nice non-alcoholic drinks. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. That's smart. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: really can scratch the itch to where you feel like you're adulting and, like you said, like a part of it without having to have the alcohol a part of the situation. So. Jessica Tanir: Thanks Exactly. That's been like my number one thing that I think has saved me going out. Like, no, they need to, especially because like, I think some of these non-alcoholic brands, like they're also new and they're just starting. And like, if we really do want this to be like a revolution of like people not drinking as much, we need to support these brands because otherwise they're not going to make enough money to stand against some of these bigger portfolios that have Erica And ShameOver: Me too! People do not lean into it, so thank you so much! Jessica Tanir: the alcoholic spirits, but then maybe some of the ⁓ non-alcoholic ones that they've taken in. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, and try different ones because some, are terrible, plain and simple, but oh yeah. But some alcohol is like I taught, cause I'm sure you've had some good and probably some horrific, horrific non-alcoholic wines, but whatever people, like I talked to people at the time were like, I've tried non-alcoholic wine. bad. I'm like, how many alcoholic drinks have you had that were bad? Jessica Tanir: Yes. Yes. ⁓ some are really terrible. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Erica And ShameOver: You drink that. Like, so why are we really doing this? Because you just, at the end of the day, you're looking for an excuse. So like, just be honest with yourself, get that out. Like the excuses are gone. If you really want to drink less or not drink at all, like this is part of it. So make it easier, make it fun, find things that you like, that you enjoy. And that's literally 90 % of the battle for me, at least. Jessica Tanir: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, same here. And yeah, I definitely tried a lot of really, really bad non alcoholic drinks. But then like when you find the ones that you do like support them, like there's a few that I started drinking at the very beginning of my sobriety, and I like still buy them because they're good. They actually like the ingredients they list in there, I can actually feel them. Like they're they become some of my go tos. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. That is the other thing with the like Lion's mane and Ashwagandha and some of the other ones that you've mentioned. I know that ⁓ are better than others as far as like actual, they have the appropriate amount that you need in it. So you can get those feelings. Cause just having it in there doesn't mean you're going to get the feelings from it. There needs to be appropriate portions of it. So keep trying them until you. Exactly. ⁓ Jessica Tanir: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, just like you would in alcohol, right? Like there's like, it's a like you have recipes that you following when you're making cocktails, and there has to be like a little this and a little that and in order for the drink to taste good and same like with the alcohol, you wouldn't give someone like a cocktail with like five ounces of alcohol. That's insane. Like they would be so intoxicated. Like you have to, there's a certain potency to everything. Erica And ShameOver: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. But, this has been amazing. So how can people find you learn more? I believe you have an event coming up. So tell us more. Jessica Tanir: So you can find me on Instagram, my name Jessica Tanner, T-A-N-I-R, I know it's spelled different, so like people are always thinking it's pronounced a different way. then I actually have a retreat coming up in August. I'm so excited. I'm gonna be taking people to Peru and gonna be staying in the Sacred Valley. We're gonna do a night in Cusco and then the remaining of the retreat, we're at this beautiful retreat center that's nestled in the Sacred Valley. They have a chakra for each garden, or sorry, they said that backwards, a garden for each chakra. And they grow a of the food on the property. It's so magical. There's so many plants. And then you're surrounded by the mountains. We're going to do a couple different activities, exploring some of the Incan ruins. We're going to do a Temescal sweat lodge, a plant medicine ceremony. also be doing yoga and have opportunities to. Erica And ShameOver: Dirt and pre- Jessica Tanir: We'll do like an intention setting workshop and integration workshop. And it's really an opportunity for people to come and connect back with back with themselves, connect with nature and figure out what it is that's inspiring them. then they can go back into their everyday lives and make any sort of shifts or changes. And this is why I want, I'm hosting this retreat and I plan to host many more retreats because I think retreats are such a Erica And ShameOver: Yes. Jessica Tanir: they can be catalysts for you in your life. You get to remove yourself from all of the daily stresses and just your daily environment where it's oftentimes a little more difficult to make some of these changes because you're just like in it. And like you have all the responsibilities, you have all the things that you have to do. so when you remove yourself and you get to go somewhere new and explore a new place, meet new people, it gives you this opportunity to have so much space for yourself. Erica And ShameOver: ⁓ absolutely. Jessica Tanir: And then you get to connect back to self, have all these great experiences, go back home and feel a little bit more rest, rejuvenated and well rested and ready to like maybe conquer your life again. So yeah, if anyone feels called to come with me, you can find more details on my Instagram. You can reach out to me via email to hello at jessicatanner.com. Erica And ShameOver: that's amazing. Jessica Tanir: And then yes, I also have virtual offerings. And then if you are in Florida, well, specifically Miami, maybe soon St. Pete, I'm going to have in-person offerings as well. So yeah, find me. Erica And ShameOver: Perfect. Awesome. That's great. And I'll make sure to include links in the show notes so that to make it easy too. So, ⁓ well, this was such a pleasure. Thank you so much. And yes, I would definitely like to get another session together so we can dive into nervous system and all of that as well. So. Jessica Tanir: you Yes, we have to. Thank you for having me. Erica And ShameOver: Perfect. Thank you.