Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #694 Responding to the Hate From Andrew Tate

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#694 Responding to the Hate From Andrew Tate · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.
0:10
Speaker 2: Now, we have come so far as a society in
0:13
Speaker 2: relation to our ideology around women and men and gender
0:19
Speaker 2: in general, and yet we've got somebody out here who
0:22
Speaker 2: is like literally out on his own limb, and he's
0:26
Speaker 2: building traction.
0:27
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum
0:31
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:31
Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy
0:34
Speaker 3: Families dot com treu and the parenting expert and co
0:38
Speaker 3: host of Channel nine's Parental Guidance. Season two is coming soon, Kylie.
0:43
Speaker 3: I'm here with Kylie, my wife.
0:44
Speaker 2: I've been tasting for a while.
0:45
Speaker 3: I have been teasing for a long time. You're right,
0:48
Speaker 3: and all I can tell you is coming soon. Channel
0:50
Speaker 3: nine haven't actually told me how soon, but it's coming soon.
0:53
Speaker 3: They keep saying coming soon to nine.
0:55
Speaker 2: Don't hold your breath.
0:56
Speaker 3: I know I'm holding my breath. Also, we have received
1:00
Speaker 3: news from my publisher that my brand new book, The
1:05
Speaker 3: Parenting Revolution, will be coming out in the first week
1:08
Speaker 3: of May. First week of May. The Parenting Revolution will
1:11
Speaker 3: keep you updated. Pre orders will be available soon, not
1:14
Speaker 3: just yet, but soon. Now Kylie. I know it's a
1:18
Speaker 3: Monday and we don't really talk about a light of
1:20
Speaker 3: parenting topic, but today a topic that I think needs
1:24
Speaker 3: to be discussed. I've had a number of people email
1:26
Speaker 3: me about it. I've had a staff member asked me
1:28
Speaker 3: about it. Our executive producer Craig has been on to
1:30
Speaker 3: me saying, you've got to talk about this issue. And
1:33
Speaker 3: the issue is a person, Andrew Tate. So today's podcast,
1:38
Speaker 3: for any parent who is wondering what's going on with
1:41
Speaker 3: this guy, is all about Andrew Tate.
1:44
Speaker 2: I'm just going to plead ignorant. Who is Andrew Tate?
1:47
Speaker 3: So I'm curious to like, do you really don't know
1:50
Speaker 3: who he is? Haven't heard of him?
1:52
Speaker 2: Okay, so I do live under a rock.
1:54
Speaker 3: Oh, don't be like that.
1:55
Speaker 2: Six children?
1:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's that, but we've got a whole lot
1:57
Speaker 3: of kids.
1:57
Speaker 1: Okay.
1:57
Speaker 3: So here's the summary of this Guyally, he's a sort
2:02
Speaker 3: of a pom slash yank who had I'm going to say,
2:07
Speaker 3: a semi successful kickboxing career. So there's a whole lot
2:11
Speaker 3: of masculinity wrapped up in the fact that this guy's
2:14
Speaker 3: strong and gets into the ring and tries to beat
2:17
Speaker 3: people up and have people try to beat him up.
2:20
Speaker 3: Some years ago, he ended up on Big Brother, but
2:22
Speaker 3: he got kicked off the show for having I think
2:26
Speaker 3: we could only call it aggressive intimate relations with a woman.
2:31
Speaker 3: He was beating her with a belt, he was barking
2:33
Speaker 3: commands at her. In Now I've struggled to say the
2:37
Speaker 3: next sentence, but I'm going to say it anyway in
2:39
Speaker 3: his defense, and it's hard to say that, But in
2:42
Speaker 3: his defense, they've both come out on the record and
2:45
Speaker 3: said that it was consensual and it was simply a
2:47
Speaker 3: case of BDSM, which is plausible, and let's just go
2:54
Speaker 3: with that for now. But Big Brother kicked him off
2:57
Speaker 3: anyway because he was a racist, homophobic, just a real
3:01
Speaker 3: horrible guy on social media already, and so the controversy
3:05
Speaker 3: when it came out when he was on Big Brother,
3:07
Speaker 3: it kind of gave them an easy reason to just
3:09
Speaker 3: kick him off the show anyway. In addition to that,
3:11
Speaker 3: he's I think it's fair to say he's ridiculously abusive,
3:15
Speaker 3: and he holds some not pretty he holds some disgusting views.
3:20
Speaker 3: I've seen him on TikTok and on YouTube. So he's
3:23
Speaker 3: been banned from pretty much all of these platforms.
3:26
Speaker 2: But see, how do people know him off he's banned.
3:28
Speaker 3: Because people have gotten his videos when he was there
3:30
Speaker 3: and they just keep on forwarding them and sharing them.
3:32
Speaker 3: And like he still is everywhere. Even though he's been banned,
3:36
Speaker 3: people are still sharing his content, so he is still
3:38
Speaker 3: on there even though it's not him sharing it. But
3:41
Speaker 3: there are videos of him saying things like, if a
3:45
Speaker 3: woman accuses you of cheating, you should slap a face hard,
3:47
Speaker 3: grab her in a choke hold and tell her to
3:49
Speaker 3: shut up. And then there's some profanities in there. And
3:53
Speaker 3: that's just one of many that are out there. You
3:55
Speaker 3: can source this stuff on TikTok. It won't take long
3:58
Speaker 3: to find it. Just do a quick search for that.
4:00
Speaker 3: He actually there was a video that I saw where
4:05
Speaker 3: he advocates not putting her in a chokehold, but holding
4:07
Speaker 3: a mashety to her throat. I mean, the guy's violent, aggressive,
4:12
Speaker 3: and well, I think pretty gross is a real understatement.
4:16
Speaker 3: Beyond that, though, he is a self confessed misogynist, like
4:23
Speaker 3: he's happy to say yes I am, that's the word
4:27
Speaker 3: that he uses. A misogynist, for those who are not
4:29
Speaker 3: familiar with the term, is someone who has dislike of,
4:32
Speaker 3: or contempt for, or an ingrained prejudice against women. So
4:37
Speaker 3: he's on the record publicly is saying yep, that's me,
4:40
Speaker 3: and I'm cool with that. That's who he is. And
4:43
Speaker 3: of course the most recent thing was, in fact a
4:47
Speaker 3: couple of recent things. He got into a big fight
4:49
Speaker 3: and argument with Great Tundberg around issues to do with
4:53
Speaker 3: the environment. As you know, she's a big environmental activist,
4:55
Speaker 3: and he started posting pictures of all of his sports
4:59
Speaker 3: cars and talking about how he doesn't care about the
5:01
Speaker 3: environment at all and he can do whatever he wants
5:03
Speaker 3: because that's the kind of guy that he is, And
5:05
Speaker 3: so they had a big back and forth, which was
5:07
Speaker 3: kind of silly really, And then he was recently he
5:10
Speaker 3: moved to Romania so that he could start an e
5:13
Speaker 3: brothel with his brother. He said that the police in
5:15
Speaker 3: Romania are less likely to investigate any sexual or domestic
5:18
Speaker 3: abuse in Romania. So I don't know anything about Romanian
5:22
Speaker 3: politics and policing and laws, although I know that the
5:24
Speaker 3: country doesn't have the best standards when it comes to
5:27
Speaker 3: policing and legal stuff. It may not it may be
5:31
Speaker 3: more corrupt than Australia. He's what I'll say, but I'll
5:34
Speaker 3: say maybe because I don't know a lot about it.
5:36
Speaker 3: I have a friend who told me, and I'm going
5:37
Speaker 3: to go with my friend because he knows more than
5:39
Speaker 3: me about that sort of stuff. But he has been
5:41
Speaker 3: imprisoned in Romania, had his home raided over reports of
5:44
Speaker 3: human trafficking. The guy, I mean, the guy is just horrible.
5:51
Speaker 3: He's absolutely horrible.
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Speaker 2: So I'm trying to understand that if he is everything
5:55
Speaker 2: that you're suggesting that he is, why is there so
5:58
Speaker 2: much traction behind him.
6:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
6:01
Speaker 3: So I read an article just a couple of weeks ago,
6:03
Speaker 3: and I've had several teachers tell me this. As you know,
6:05
Speaker 3: I'm in and out of schools regularly talking to stuff.
6:09
Speaker 3: In fact, I was in a school in Adelaide last
6:11
Speaker 3: year and they wanted me to talk about Andrew Tate
6:13
Speaker 3: without mentioning his name. They said, we basically want to
6:15
Speaker 3: talk to you about who you're being influenced by as
6:18
Speaker 3: a student. And they said, and we know that our
6:20
Speaker 3: kids are being influenced by Andrew Tate, but we don't
6:22
Speaker 3: want you to mention Andrew Tate. And I found in
6:24
Speaker 3: a news dot com Dot a U article a little
6:26
Speaker 3: while ago maybe like two weeks ago where a school
6:29
Speaker 3: teacher basically said, quote my male students, just quote his name.
6:33
Speaker 3: I could be teaching a class about pyramids in Egypt
6:36
Speaker 3: and they'll be like, what do you think about Andrew
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Speaker 3: Tate Lthy'll start chanting his name, which becomes this huge disruption.
6:45
Speaker 3: So what is happening is this guy's got enormous traction
6:50
Speaker 3: even though he holds these repulsive, repulsive views. An ABC
6:55
Speaker 3: article just came out I think I was published on Wednesday,
6:58
Speaker 3: the twenty fifth. We'll linked to it in our show notes.
7:00
Speaker 3: Survey finds a third of teen boys look up to
7:04
Speaker 3: internet celebrity and self described misogynist Andrew Tait. So this
7:09
Speaker 3: guy is out there, he's everywhere, and it's our boys
7:12
Speaker 3: in particular, not so many girls, but our boys in
7:15
Speaker 3: particular who say that they're looking up to him, and
7:19
Speaker 3: they are. They're connecting with a lot of his messaging.
7:23
Speaker 2: So we obviously have a house full of girls. Yeah,
7:26
Speaker 2: but as a result, we actually associate with humorous amount
7:30
Speaker 2: of boys as well. Right, and I have a hard
7:33
Speaker 2: time believing that the kinds of boys that my girls
7:36
Speaker 2: are associating with would feel any identification towards a man
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Speaker 2: who is openly sharing these kind of just disgraceful views.
7:48
Speaker 2: So what is it that's drawing kids to I mean,
7:52
Speaker 2: does he have any redeeming qualities?
7:54
Speaker 3: I'll share what I think about that upbreak. It's the
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Speaker 3: Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time for parent
8:01
Speaker 3: who just wants answers. Now, Kylie has asked the question,
8:05
Speaker 3: does Andrew Tate have any redeeming qualities? So this is
8:08
Speaker 3: the thing when it comes to this guy. We put
8:11
Speaker 3: some stuff on Facebook a couple of weeks ago where
8:13
Speaker 3: I raised the topic, and while the overwhelming majority of people,
8:17
Speaker 3: overwhelming majority of people said this guy is just a
8:20
Speaker 3: dirt bag, there were a handful of people, mums and
8:24
Speaker 3: dads who came to his defense and said he's not
8:26
Speaker 3: that bad. He actually says some really good stuff, and
8:28
Speaker 3: if you can just ignore the bad stuff, he says
8:30
Speaker 3: some stuff that's really good. So what's really happened here
8:33
Speaker 3: is you've got a guy who's got an outsized online profile.
8:36
Speaker 3: His social media profile was outsized. Obviously, he's been deplatformed
8:39
Speaker 3: by everyone, although Twitter has let him back of now,
8:41
Speaker 3: but Elon Musk has taken over there. But he's got
8:44
Speaker 3: this outsized profile, and he's said and done a range
8:48
Speaker 3: of things that are, in a word, transgressive. He's saying
8:52
Speaker 3: and doing things that no one else will say. And
8:56
Speaker 3: while many of those things are really terrible, there are
9:00
Speaker 3: actually a whole lot of things that he also says
9:02
Speaker 3: that are not terrible at all. So he's kind of
9:04
Speaker 3: got this quasi inspirational momentum around him where he's saying,
9:09
Speaker 3: if you get up early, and if you do this
9:10
Speaker 3: in the morning, and he kind of steps his followers
9:13
Speaker 3: through a range of things that he thinks can help
9:16
Speaker 3: them to be more productive, or to be healthier, or
9:19
Speaker 3: to live life to the fullest based on whatever it is.
9:23
Speaker 3: It's just that he's doing it. And what I would
9:25
Speaker 3: consider to be essentially a values free system, particularly as
9:28
Speaker 3: it relates to the way we treat other people. It's
9:31
Speaker 3: very women specific women specifically other people more generally. I mean,
9:34
Speaker 3: he's pretty happy to encourage people to be boys and
9:37
Speaker 3: men to be brutal to other boys and men as well.
9:40
Speaker 3: It's a doggy dog world, and he's absolutely convinced that
9:43
Speaker 3: if you can kick the absolute heck out of somebody,
9:47
Speaker 3: that you're more of a man than they are. So
9:49
Speaker 3: he is absolutely misogynistic. But he doesn't only recommend that
9:53
Speaker 3: men are unkind, violent, prejudiced towards women. He recommends that
9:57
Speaker 3: they are like that to one another as well. To
9:59
Speaker 3: be the alpha, to be the top dog, but he
10:02
Speaker 3: does I mean, I jumped on. I got lost in
10:04
Speaker 3: the Andrew Tate rabbit hole for a couple of hours recently,
10:07
Speaker 3: just so that I could really get my head around
10:08
Speaker 3: this guy. And he says a whole lot of things.
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Speaker 3: He's not a good speaker, he's not inspirational at all.
10:14
Speaker 3: But because he's transgressive and because he is the alpha
10:18
Speaker 3: dog in the eyes of so many young boys, remember,
10:22
Speaker 3: boys who want status, boys who want to be tough,
10:24
Speaker 3: and boys who wants to be transgressive. Because it gets
10:27
Speaker 3: it's like their great big middle finger to everyone in
10:29
Speaker 3: their school, or everyone in their class, or everyone in
10:31
Speaker 3: their community. They get to say, you can't tell me
10:33
Speaker 3: what to do. I'm tough. I can do it because
10:35
Speaker 3: Andrew Tate told me to. So a lot of people
10:37
Speaker 3: are coming to his defense and saying, not that big
10:39
Speaker 3: of a deal, but they're missing the worst of what
10:42
Speaker 3: he does, or they're downplaying it because apparently there are
10:46
Speaker 3: some redeeming aspects to some of his messaging in some places, I'm.
10:51
Speaker 2: Listening to your talk and I honestly my stomach is churning.
10:54
Speaker 2: I'm really struggling to sit with any amount of comfortability
11:00
Speaker 2: about who he is and what he stands for. And
11:03
Speaker 2: that's coming secondhand. I'd hate to actually be engaged in
11:07
Speaker 2: this firsthand. But what intrigues me is that as we
11:12
Speaker 2: go throughout life, we find ourselves in unfamiliar settings, we
11:15
Speaker 2: find ourselves in places where we're not sure where things
11:21
Speaker 2: fit with our value systems, and as an adult with
11:25
Speaker 2: maturity and life experience, more times than not, we're able
11:30
Speaker 2: to as one parent. You've actually obviously said already one
11:34
Speaker 2: parent is you're able to take the good and leave
11:38
Speaker 2: behind the bad. You're actually able to separate in spite
11:41
Speaker 2: of the fact they might come from the same place.
11:43
Speaker 2: You're able to say, you know what, this actually works
11:45
Speaker 2: for me. This sits really well with my value system.
11:48
Speaker 2: But this stuff over here, I'm going to leave this
11:51
Speaker 2: to the side. This doesn't fit. But when we're talking
11:54
Speaker 2: about teenagers and boys in particular, and we know that
11:58
Speaker 2: you're the psychologist, so you're probably explain it a bit
12:00
Speaker 2: better than me, But we know that their brains don't
12:03
Speaker 2: they're not fully formed yet, that their executive function is
12:06
Speaker 2: not one hundred percent. And so you've got this celebrity who,
12:11
Speaker 2: from time to time says something brilliant, but he also
12:15
Speaker 2: says a whole heap of stuff that is so damaging
12:17
Speaker 2: and so negative, and they can't filter through it all,
12:22
Speaker 2: and they just there's this idolization process that comes with
12:26
Speaker 2: that celebrity status, and they hang on every word and
12:29
Speaker 2: that idea that because he's so popular, I just want
12:33
Speaker 2: to be like everybody else. Everybody knows what his lady's
12:36
Speaker 2: thing is, everyone knows what he's talking about, and I
12:39
Speaker 2: want to be that. I actually don't know where to
12:41
Speaker 2: go with that, because I can see in so many
12:45
Speaker 2: ways we have come so far as a society in
12:49
Speaker 2: relation to our ideology around women and men and gender
12:54
Speaker 2: in general. And you know what is deemed respectful across
13:00
Speaker 2: the board, whether it be in the work environment, the
13:03
Speaker 2: school environment, the home environment. And yet we've got somebody
13:07
Speaker 2: out here who is like literally out on his own
13:10
Speaker 2: limb and he's building traction. What does that say about
13:15
Speaker 2: where we are?
13:16
Speaker 3: It says a lot about the algorithms quite honestly, I mean,
13:19
Speaker 3: the algorithms reward people who are transgressive, the algorithms reward
13:25
Speaker 3: people who are inciting outrage and inflaming and stoking fires
13:32
Speaker 3: of frustration.
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Speaker 2: It's all about numbers, very very much.
13:36
Speaker 3: I think that if this guy had appeared on the
13:39
Speaker 3: scene before the algorithms do what they do, he would
13:42
Speaker 3: have just been put into a box and everyone would
13:44
Speaker 3: have walked away from him. But the algorithms have actually
13:47
Speaker 3: lifted him and elevated him, because that's one of the
13:51
Speaker 3: I was going to say unforeseen, but I'm not sure
13:53
Speaker 3: if that's quite the right word. But that's one of
13:54
Speaker 3: the side effects of having the social media world that
13:57
Speaker 3: we have my interest here, as we try to deal
14:01
Speaker 3: with this guy whose viewpoints surrounding hyper masculinity and misogyny
14:06
Speaker 3: and homophobia and racism, our kids continue to be exposed
14:10
Speaker 3: to him and those of his ilk. I think what
14:13
Speaker 3: we really need to do is spend some time talking
14:16
Speaker 3: just in the last mineral or two of the podcast,
14:18
Speaker 3: about what we can do as parents if our kids
14:21
Speaker 3: start to talk about this guy, and maybe even suggest
14:24
Speaker 3: that they have a level of interest, a level of compulsion,
14:28
Speaker 3: a level of fascination with him, And my number one
14:32
Speaker 3: thing would be I would say, so you like Andrew taate,
14:35
Speaker 3: why why don't we sit down and watch some of
14:37
Speaker 3: it together? Like I would literally sit and watch a
14:39
Speaker 3: couple of videos together and find the original stuff. Don't
14:42
Speaker 3: find people's reaction videos on YouTube. Go and find a
14:44
Speaker 3: couple of original pieces and listen to what he says,
14:47
Speaker 3: Listen to what he says in interviews, listen to what
14:49
Speaker 3: he said on a podcast, and as he says things,
14:52
Speaker 3: pause every time he makes a claim and ask you
14:55
Speaker 3: a child, is that healthy? Is that safe? Is that
14:57
Speaker 3: consistent with the values that we've raised you with? And
15:00
Speaker 3: you'll find that I reckon about forty fifty maybe even
15:03
Speaker 3: sixty percent of the time you're not on your head and go, yeah, yeah,
15:05
Speaker 3: it actually it is. And then he'll say something at
15:08
Speaker 3: the end of a sentence, usually where everybody will just go,
15:13
Speaker 3: holy cow, is this guy for real? And that's when
15:16
Speaker 3: you get to say to I, kiddo, and what about that?
15:18
Speaker 3: And you'll watch your child just maybe squirm a little
15:21
Speaker 3: bit and saying oh yeah, but and you say no, no, no, no,
15:23
Speaker 3: oh yeah. But the first half of the sentence was
15:25
Speaker 3: probably okay, but the second half of the sentence. And
15:27
Speaker 3: here's the analogy that I like. I would say to
15:30
Speaker 3: my kids, Okay, so fifty percent of it's good and
15:32
Speaker 3: fifty percent of its rank. If I made you a cookie,
15:36
Speaker 3: a chocolate chip cookie with fifty percent real ingredients and
15:40
Speaker 3: fifty percent dog poo, would you eat the cookie? And
15:45
Speaker 3: the answer is going to be no, No one's going
15:47
Speaker 3: to eat a fifty percent dog pooh cookie. And if
15:49
Speaker 3: Andrew Tate even comes in at ten percent or twenty percent,
15:51
Speaker 3: and I can assure you, having watched what I've watched,
15:53
Speaker 3: that it's worse than that. No one's going to be
15:56
Speaker 3: eating that cookie if it's a real life cookie. So therefore,
15:59
Speaker 3: why are we consuming his content and just writing it off?
16:02
Speaker 3: It's not helpful. My sense is that if we have
16:05
Speaker 3: those kinds of gentle but honest conversations with the kids
16:09
Speaker 3: and show hey, we're big enough, we're grown ups. We
16:11
Speaker 3: can listen to this stuff and then pick it apart,
16:13
Speaker 3: teach them how to critique it, that's where we're going
16:15
Speaker 3: to get the cut through. And then the question becomes,
16:18
Speaker 3: so if this comes up at school or if everyone's
16:20
Speaker 3: talking about it, what do you reckon? Is the best
16:22
Speaker 3: way to respond and get the kids involved in the
16:24
Speaker 3: problem solving. That's where we make the progress, and that's
16:28
Speaker 3: where we get to help our children, even though they're
16:30
Speaker 3: differentiating from us in their adolescent years, particularly, we get
16:34
Speaker 3: them to consider what their values really are and respond
16:37
Speaker 3: to us with useful and proper conversations.
16:40
Speaker 2: So, even though you haven't articulated this very clearly and
16:43
Speaker 2: in your response, I'm going to suggest that one of
16:47
Speaker 2: the most important things in having these conversations with our
16:51
Speaker 2: kids is about being able to come into the conversation
16:56
Speaker 2: almost non bias.
16:57
Speaker 3: I think it's even better than that. Come in and say,
17:00
Speaker 3: I'm not really across this, but let's learn about this together.
17:04
Speaker 3: Don't come in as the expert, come in as the interested.
17:07
Speaker 3: I'm worried and I'm hearing things. Let's investigate, let's figure
17:10
Speaker 3: it out together.
17:11
Speaker 2: It's really as easy as a parent when you're worried
17:14
Speaker 2: about things to kind of come across angry or want
17:17
Speaker 2: to step down hard and put in rules and boundaries
17:21
Speaker 2: in place to keep our children safe. But when we're
17:24
Speaker 2: talking about teenagers and their absolute need for autonomy and independence,
17:32
Speaker 2: I think the most important thing for us to remember
17:33
Speaker 2: is that the more we can come at it, as
17:38
Speaker 2: you suggested, from that inquisitive framework, we're actually going to
17:43
Speaker 2: have more influence than we will if we come in
17:46
Speaker 2: as the parent who's stepping down hard.
17:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, because force creates resistance. That's it. So we really
17:52
Speaker 3: hope that this has been a useful conversation for those
17:54
Speaker 3: of you who are not across the guy. Hopefully you
17:56
Speaker 3: don't even need to go and look him up, and
17:58
Speaker 3: hopefully your kids aren't that interested. Remember, the stats are
18:00
Speaker 3: showing somewhere between twenty five and thirty three percent of kids,
18:03
Speaker 3: our teenage boys are looking up to him. That means
18:05
Speaker 3: that a whole lot of boys actually recognize that he
18:07
Speaker 3: is what he is, which is a human who is
18:11
Speaker 3: not living and encouraging values that are consistent with what
18:14
Speaker 3: we would hope. And therefore that means that a lot
18:17
Speaker 3: of us are not going to find this relevant. But
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Speaker 3: hopefully for those of us who are struggling with it
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Speaker 3: or wanted to know more, there's enough here to just
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Speaker 3: be that little bit more helpful for you. The Happy
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Speaker 3: Family's podcast produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig
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Speaker 3: Bruce is our executive producer. If you'd like more, and
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Speaker 3: fo about how to make you family happy. Please visit
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Speaker 3: us at happy families dot com, dot a