Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Dylan Rees about their choice of The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory & Dylan Rees about their choice of The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None hamster with a blump pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing quicker. Quicker, Quicker.
• 0:40
  Welcome back to our Hamster with a Blump Pen Knife, the Doctor
• 0:43
  Who Commentary podcast. I am here today with two
• 0:48
  incredible sex pots, Mr. Fraser Gregory and Mr. Dylan Reese.
• 0:54
  Fraser, why do you look confused?
• 0:56
  There's only you guys. You're being sweet and the the
• 1:02
  only two men that I know Oh no. They're sigh as well that think
• 1:06
  the Vanquishers is a solid season closure of Doctor Who
• 1:11
  Fraser and Dylan. How are you both doing today
• 1:13
  boys? I.
• 1:14
  Mean we're raped, aren't we? We are, it's.
• 1:19
  Alas, we have not come together to talk about the Vanquishers.
• 1:22
  No, no, We're skipping back a season and we are here to talk
• 1:27
  about 02 seasons even. Sorry, the Battle of Ransco
• 1:32
  Avkolos, and I'm going to be out front with you.
• 1:34
  I thought I would be pulling some arms to get one person to
• 1:37
  come on to talk about this. So to have two people ask if
• 1:41
  they could do this episode, that's rather thrilling.
• 1:45
  Well, I think we were discussing it on a podcast and Fraser added
• 1:50
  us straight after or something. I don't know whether you'd
• 1:52
  spoken before about it and said, well, there is somebody else
• 1:54
  who'd do it and such that the Holy Trinity was born.
• 1:59
  Yeah, I'd said ages ago I would, I would do this one.
• 2:03
  You know, champion of the damned, there is.
• 2:05
  Is there a more damned story than this?
• 2:07
  I think it, I think it's up there with the sort of the, the
• 2:11
  most disliked of the of the new series, I'm going to say.
• 2:15
  It didn't come bottom of the pole though, did it?
• 2:17
  That was all from 55. Which is a crime.
• 2:22
  People are screaming right now just hearing that line.
• 2:26
  To be honest with you, I pointed out to them after the 1st and
• 2:28
  2nd doctor pulls that the printed them upside down.
• 2:33
  I haven't listened, he. Started a letter writing
• 2:36
  campaign every single power he was writing into DWM every month
• 2:41
  with these enormous letters saying you've got it all wrong,
• 2:43
  your polls are upside down. Eventually they relented and
• 2:47
  published one, hoping he'd go away.
• 2:49
  But now he was back again next month.
• 2:52
  That's incredible. Star.
• 2:53
  Letter Star. Letter Did you get prize?
• 2:57
  Yeah. What did you win I?
• 2:59
  Won Doctor Who, Angels and Demons.
• 3:05
  Oh, that's exciting. From a big finish.
• 3:10
  And you not a big finish listener.
• 3:12
  No, it's got Tom Big, It's got Louis Jameson.
• 3:14
  It's got Nevis Hughes in it. What's not love?
• 3:16
  Is it still in its telephone? It is still in its telephone,
• 3:18
  yeah. I still can't believe they
• 3:22
  brought nearest shoes back and she weren't playing Todd from
• 3:24
  Kinder. Oh.
• 3:25
  It's a crime alongside. Peter Davidson When Nearest
• 3:29
  Shoes and Peter Davidson are both doing big finishes.
• 3:32
  What the hell is that all about? No.
• 3:34
  It's it's unacceptable if you ask me, Nick Briggs, pull your
• 3:37
  thumb out. So boys, famously you both
• 3:42
  completely despise the Christians chip N stroke, Jodie
• 3:45
  whisker era. And I'm going to ask you now to
• 3:48
  explain yourselves, Fraser. Well, it's just not good, is it?
• 3:57
  The writing's bad, the performances are bad, the
• 4:00
  cinematography is, but everything about it is bad.
• 4:03
  She's got no gravitas, has she? She doesn't have a Doctor
• 4:06
  moment. Not at all.
• 4:07
  She's got no agency. She never has a confrontation
• 4:10
  with a villain. What's There's no character
• 4:13
  moments. There's no emotion in any of the
• 4:15
  stories. It's just.
• 4:18
  It's that woke agenda above everything else before the
• 4:21
  story. Why can't we get to good old
• 4:23
  fashioned storytelling like we had in the 60s?
• 4:25
  More Galaxy 4? Less Battle of Ramscorps?
• 4:28
  Have Carlos That's what I. Say, Oh, it's exactly.
• 4:31
  So refreshing to hear your boys talking like this.
• 4:37
  No, this is not your opinion at all.
• 4:39
  You're both very keen on the era.
• 4:41
  Have you both listened to the Chris Chibnall interview that's
• 4:44
  just recently been released? And most of the way through it,
• 4:47
  I think I've got about 20 minutes left to go, but it's
• 4:50
  fantastic, it really is. Yes, I've listened to it.
• 4:53
  I think he sounds, he comes across very well, the same as
• 4:56
  the interview we did at Gallifrey One that was on Radio
• 4:58
  Free Sky Row. He comes across as a very
• 5:01
  knowledgeable, interesting man who just clearly loves Doctor
• 5:06
  Who, clearly loves making television and, you know, relish
• 5:09
  the opportunity to take on a very difficult show.
• 5:13
  Yeah. And he's so down to earth.
• 5:17
  He's just, you know, there's an emotional intelligence about
• 5:21
  them that I found really refreshing that interview he's
• 5:24
  he's not afraid to kind of talk about things like the market and
• 5:29
  that was a that was one that struck out.
• 5:30
  You know he talks about the market and then how his approach
• 5:33
  or that people might not like it.
• 5:34
  There's other approaches that are better in some respects and
• 5:37
  not as good and you know, it's it's just so refreshing to have,
• 5:42
  you know, I'm talking that way without any sense of ego or.
• 5:46
  That's what I got from it. I just didn't.
• 5:48
  I didn't feel that he was. Now you listen to Rusty Davis
• 5:51
  talking about his empire, and don't get me wrong, he's great
• 5:54
  to listen to, but I get a sense that he is God.
• 5:57
  And I get that with Steven Moffat as well, but just in a
• 6:00
  sort of awkward, twitchy way. The way he gives an interview
• 6:03
  where Chippers just comes across as like the bloke you'd meet
• 6:05
  down the pub who just has to be writing Doctor Who.
• 6:08
  Absolutely, yeah. I knew he was going to bring up
• 6:11
  that marketing. I knew it because, you know, I'm
• 6:13
  that person that was ratting him about his lack of marketing.
• 6:17
  Everyone was. It's, you know, it's it's it's
• 6:20
  universal. Apart from that company that
• 6:25
  gave him an award for the best marketing campaign, which people
• 6:28
  always seem to forget. What the hell was that all
• 6:31
  about? But you know me, Joe me and you
• 6:34
  have talked of Mike many times about the way that like
• 6:38
  Russell's doing it at the minute and how it's just leaving me
• 6:41
  feeling very overwhelmed and I feel bloated with what we're
• 6:45
  getting at the minute. There's there's very little
• 6:47
  excitement because I just feel that we're getting swamped with
• 6:51
  new stuff like every weeks. And you know this is the
• 6:53
  doctor's tie. This is what the 14th Doctor's
• 6:55
  tie is going to look like. And look, next week he has these
• 6:58
  boot laces and, you know, you just think, oh, just leave us
• 7:00
  with something to look forward to.
• 7:04
  Stop giving us everything, leave us something to look forward to
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  and think that's what, you know, Chris Chibwell's approach did
• 7:10
  really well for me. It it surprised us and it kept
• 7:14
  us, you know, looking forward to what was going to come.
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  It made you want to come back every week because especially in
• 7:21
  that second series where they had amped things up to, you
• 7:25
  know, there were two parters and there was an ongoing story arc
• 7:29
  and things. And I remember like the Twitter
• 7:31
  accounts hyping certain things and being like you don't want to
• 7:34
  miss tonight's episode and you really didn't.
• 7:36
  It wasn't like they were hyping Nicola Tessa's Night of Terror.
• 7:40
  Not because they weren't hyping it, but I mean like they weren't
• 7:43
  going. You're not going to believe what
• 7:45
  happens tonight, though. It was very much those key,
• 7:48
  those key episodes. I also.
• 7:50
  So I admire him sort of keeping those secrets.
• 7:53
  I also think that perhaps that by that point Doctor Who's been
• 7:57
  running for ten seasons, 11 seasons, whatever.
• 8:00
  And it's being marketed as a something that is there and a
• 8:05
  very firm part of the BBC sort of schedule.
• 8:08
  But it's not like what have you got to throw at people that's
• 8:12
  like, oh, it's a brand new series or a brand new Doctor
• 8:15
  after that initial burst of here's the new Doctor.
• 8:18
  It was sort of, you know, it, it played its part in the schedules
• 8:21
  and maybe it wasn't the huge, you know, the huge ratings
• 8:24
  winner. But I don't want to talk about
• 8:25
  ratings. But but the huge, the huge Bayer
• 8:29
  moth that I think people imagined it should be.
• 8:33
  It's ATV show that's been on TV for 15 years like it was.
• 8:37
  It was doing very well and, you know, reminding everybody that
• 8:40
  needed to know that it was still out there.
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  And I've said this before on Joe's podcast, and I'll say it
• 8:45
  again, I think people will be very There may be more marketing
• 8:48
  for the 60th specials, but I think people will be very
• 8:51
  surprised with exactly how many people TuneIn.
• 8:55
  I mean, I'm not going to contradict both of you, but I
• 8:58
  kind of AM because, well, because I did, I wondered
• 9:02
  whether Flux was actually coming on about two weeks before it was
• 9:06
  due to come on, because it was just nothing at all.
• 9:08
  And I think that is the bad approach because I was going,
• 9:12
  well, who's going to watch this if nobody knows it's coming?
• 9:14
  And admittedly, they did drop a trailer.
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  I don't know. It was about two weeks or a week
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  before, which was incredible, and got.
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  Do you know this? Sorry to interrupt you, but this
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  is now how television schedules they are not firmed up until 10
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  days before airing. Before that, there's still
• 9:30
  various changes that could take place.
• 9:33
  But I'm assuming. Pull you up on that.
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  Two weeks, hang on. I'm assuming two weeks before
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  they're due to go out, there is some material, some enticement
• 9:42
  that they could throw our way. And I do think people are
• 9:46
  talking extremely positively about Rusty Davis's new era
• 9:50
  coming along because he is throwing quite a few bones.
• 9:53
  Because you might not like that, but I feel like the majority do.
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  They do like it. I just think it's two different
• 10:01
  approaches. Go on, Fraser, pull me out.
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  That's exactly what chidnall said.
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  There's two different approaches and I'm not sure which one works
• 10:07
  better, but we've tried both now.
• 10:09
  What I'll say about flux. I was pulling me up, not you.
• 10:14
  Yeah, no, it's it's it's Dylan. Because you're saying that the
• 10:18
  schedules aren't set until like 2 weeks beforehand, but the very
• 10:23
  first episode of Flux went out on the 31st of October 2021 and
• 10:28
  was the Halloween Apocalypse. That is true.
• 10:31
  The last episode of Flux went out on the 5th of December 2021
• 10:38
  and was or was it the 12th? It might be in the 12th, but it
• 10:40
  was set on the day it went out. That's interesting.
• 10:45
  So I'm talking bollocks then? No, I don't think you are.
• 10:49
  I think generally speaking, you're absolutely right.
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  I think you know the will with the BBC activity or anyone else
• 10:58
  will. Generally workers, you know,
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  they'll make a programme, they'll decide when they're
• 11:01
  going to show it. I think the fact that they've
• 11:04
  allowed Chris Chibnall to go out and make an episode specific,
• 11:08
  specifically the Halloween apocalypse, and make that, you
• 11:11
  know, episodes set on Halloween to go out on Halloween shows
• 11:15
  massive faith in him and the show at that time, you know?
• 11:20
  It's also best intentions as well, because apparently the
• 11:23
  power of the doctor was moved around from weekend to weekend
• 11:27
  several times. So it's it's it's about what
• 11:30
  it's going up against, whether they, you know, whether they
• 11:33
  want to use it as something to fight what's on the other side
• 11:35
  or whether they're going to relinquish a time slot and go,
• 11:37
  do you know what, we can't beat that.
• 11:40
  And you know, it'll still be interesting to see where the
• 11:43
  60th specials fall because I've heard all sorts of speculation
• 11:46
  and rumours about where they might land.
• 11:48
  But I'm wondering if they're probably only starting to get an
• 11:50
  idea now. And it won't be firmed up 100%
• 11:53
  until I think there's about two or three weeks before that where
• 11:57
  the stations, when we start to really get the rumblings, where
• 12:01
  the stations get basically get to have a look at each other's
• 12:04
  schedules to try and not clash or to start a clash.
• 12:08
  And so that that's when they they really start to firm up the
• 12:11
  details of when things are going to go out.
• 12:13
  I am. I am going to try and swing us
• 12:16
  around to the rather bizarre Star Trek episode that we're
• 12:19
  going to watch today. You love Star Trek.
• 12:21
  You do love. I do, but I don't like boring
• 12:24
  Star Trek. I like you, love it, Camp and
• 12:26
  fun. You talk about it every week.
• 12:28
  Most Star Trek is boring. Oh, Dylan, how wrong you are.
• 12:33
  It's been a long time. I'm there to hear you.
• 12:38
  I'm going to name drop now and say I had a conversation with
• 12:41
  Matthew Waterhouse recently and he was telling me how dull and
• 12:44
  boring you thought Star Trek was and I couldn't argue with his.
• 12:47
  I have heard that. Before, but then he was in
• 12:50
  Lagopolis, remember? That's true.
• 12:52
  Yeah, it was. Just the.
• 12:54
  Thing thing about maths. But do you know, I would just
• 12:57
  like to say one last thing about the marketing and about you
• 13:02
  saying that there's too much coming.
• 13:03
  I think what he's done is is very savvy move in telling us
• 13:07
  nothing at all about that middle special.
• 13:09
  So whilst he's giving us a lot, there's huge speculation about
• 13:14
  the mystery around that middle episode.
• 13:16
  I don't. Really know an awful lot about
• 13:17
  most of them. No, it's just, it's just because
• 13:20
  he's doing a bit of sort of showbiz that we feel like we do
• 13:23
  well. I'm just waiting for the the
• 13:28
  drop that it's not to the toy maker and if you want to go.
• 13:34
  Well, one thing we can say about the schedules is the battle of
• 13:37
  Ramscott Avco loss definitely came after It Takes you away and
• 13:41
  before Resolution 2, superb episodes of Doctor Who.
• 13:47
  Instead we're talking about this one.
• 13:49
  So what enticed you to talk about this one in particular as
• 13:55
  we've discussed it? Or we know this is an unpopular
• 13:57
  episode, Dylan. I I'm always interested in
• 14:03
  giving the underdogs sort of a bit more time.
• 14:06
  And while I don't think this is fantastic, I do think it's a
• 14:10
  pretty solid episode of Doctor Who and we'll get into more of
• 14:13
  the reasons why. But I have to say that when this
• 14:15
  aired, a mate of mine came round and we watched it and we were
• 14:19
  like, yeah, that was pretty good, yeah, yeah, that was
• 14:21
  really good. And then we went down the pub
• 14:23
  and we talked about it for a bit.
• 14:24
  It was like, you know, we haven't really seen a Doctor Who
• 14:26
  finale like that before. We both really like Tim Shore,
• 14:29
  So we're happy to see him back. And it's only later when you go
• 14:32
  online and it's almost become this legendarily bad episode
• 14:36
  that you're suddenly like, what? What happened?
• 14:40
  Like, is it because is it because it's too different?
• 14:44
  Is it because it doesn't do the sort of things that we expect
• 14:47
  from our Doctor Who Finale's? What is it about it that, you
• 14:51
  know, people that cause such a visceral reaction?
• 14:54
  And so I just wanted to sort of watch it again and dive a little
• 14:58
  bit deeper into the sort of responses to it and and indeed
• 15:02
  you know what we what we actually think.
• 15:04
  A fine motive, Fraser. Exactly the same, to be honest.
• 15:09
  I mean, it's it's an unloved story.
• 15:11
  This is what I do. And you're also a contrary
• 15:14
  bugger. So if someone's saying something
• 15:16
  is shit and you're there to tell this, I love it about you,
• 15:21
  though. I love it about you.
• 15:22
  And that's what this is all about, is celebrating as much of
• 15:26
  Doctor Who as you possibly can. Absolutely.
• 15:28
  It's it's it's like Darren says you know it.
• 15:31
  It's never struck us as that bad an episode.
• 15:34
  Freely admit it's not what I went back to and watched, you
• 15:37
  know, often until this weekend. But having gone back and watched
• 15:41
  it again, you know, I watched it watch it this morning.
• 15:44
  I watched, I think Saturday night as well.
• 15:45
  Then, you know, it was enjoyable.
• 15:48
  You know, there was, you know, lots of good moments.
• 15:52
  I'm going to, you know, I'll probably interrupt because
• 15:54
  you'll be talking when there's there's these two or three
• 15:56
  really sexy shots, which I'm going to point out as we go
• 16:00
  through. But you know, the direction
• 16:02
  really stood out was there was a lot more character work than I
• 16:04
  thought that I remembered the being.
• 16:07
  You know, the stuff like Graham and Tim Shaw was, was more front
• 16:12
  and centre than what I remember. Because, you know, you're
• 16:15
  falling at this trap, don't you? You go away, you go to the pub,
• 16:17
  you talk your mate and then you go on on the Internet and then
• 16:19
  you start starts to sink in by osmosis and you start thinking
• 16:23
  Oh well, yeah, no, actually there was there's there's no
• 16:25
  character work, there's nothing like that.
• 16:27
  And you have to go back and remind yourself sometimes, you
• 16:30
  know, you have to go back and watch these episodes and because
• 16:33
  you can fixate on on one thing, you can go like, well, there's
• 16:35
  no battle, you know, and that in your mind becomes the whole
• 16:41
  episode. It's not until you go back and
• 16:42
  watch it again that you spot the the moments of charm that are
• 16:45
  sprinkled through. Maybe it was a metaphor, you
• 16:48
  know, an internal battle of the Ark and their magical powers.
• 16:52
  Do you know what? I I went on to a podcast
• 16:54
  recently and I suggested to the audience of that podcast that
• 16:57
  when the new specials come out, don't go online for a couple of
• 17:00
  days. Leave it two days.
• 17:01
  I know nobody will. Everybody goes online because
• 17:04
  we're desperate to know what other people think.
• 17:06
  But don't do it. Suit of your opinion for two
• 17:08
  days. Make your opinion and then read
• 17:10
  everybody else's. Oh.
• 17:11
  That's isn't it? Because Twitter's the Pope now,
• 17:13
  isn't it? You know, we don't go to the pub
• 17:14
  anymore with we're friends. Or if we do, we haven't got,
• 17:16
  like, 200 friends at with fingertips on Twitter.
• 17:19
  Be lovely. I wouldn't imagine all the hand
• 17:21
  fam coming together after every episode.
• 17:23
  The punch UPS would be amazing. I've got to say, I said Dylan,
• 17:28
  didn't I? When we did Spy Fall, that
• 17:31
  because Luke Malloy came at us saying, you know, are you a no
• 17:34
  longer objective about this era? Do you only find, you know nice
• 17:38
  things to say about it because of that's your position and I
• 17:42
  said that this and legend of the Sea Devils were two of the
• 17:45
  dullest episodes of Doctor Who I could think or two of the worst.
• 17:49
  I think I said I watched this two days ago and I rather
• 17:53
  enjoyed it as well. So I've yeah, I don't think this
• 17:56
  is perfect and I think he gets one thing spectacularly wrong
• 17:59
  which would have solved about 80% of its problems.
• 18:05
  Should we go in and have a look? Why not?
• 18:06
  I'm. Barely hang on, I don't want.
• 18:08
  My eye part of working on that. So just to sort of answer Luke
• 18:15
  Malloy, we're going to be, we're going to be very objective about
• 18:18
  this Now. I don't think I'm going to sit
• 18:19
  here and just, you know, tickle his tits and tell it's how
• 18:22
  fantastic it is. It's It is a flawed episode of
• 18:25
  Doctor Who, but no more flawed than many others.
• 18:29
  But the weird thing I find is, well, one after talking with you
• 18:33
  and another after talking with Jeff who did my resolution
• 18:36
  episode, is that both of those episodes was actually make
• 18:39
  better finales than this. Yeah, I I think it's an
• 18:43
  interesting thing actually. The sort of trilogy would be
• 18:47
  wrong maybe slightly sort of character based trilogy of it
• 18:51
  takes you away this and resolution and you can kind of
• 18:55
  see the sort of character through lines in it.
• 18:57
  But fundamentally where it's broadcast, I think it's.
• 19:01
  I think it's the wrong choice to close the season with and I've
• 19:04
  said this before swap it with it takes you away.
• 19:06
  I think you've got a very different season I still think.
• 19:08
  I actually think there'd be more disliked towards it takes you
• 19:11
  away though because that's even less like a normal finale.
• 19:15
  So I think nothing in this spot could have in terms of that
• 19:20
  season have really satisfied fans in the way that that they
• 19:23
  want their finales to be. The conclusion of the year is
• 19:27
  the Doctor blowing a kiss to a frog, you know well, Fraser, Are
• 19:34
  you ready? Yes, I am.
• 19:38
  Who is going to count as him? I don't mind counting as sooner.
• 19:41
  You do it so well. Shall we press play in 54321?
• 19:50
  No pre title sequence. No what?
• 19:54
  Do you think about that? Do we think it's already a
• 19:56
  mistake? No, I I think it depends whether
• 20:00
  you've got any. I I do like a pre title
• 20:02
  sequence, but I think it depends whether you've got anything
• 20:05
  worthwhile doing there, and I don't know whether this story
• 20:09
  benefits from it or not. Well, we're about to see where
• 20:12
  it starts, so let's see if this would make a good pretrial
• 20:15
  sequence. I think it's just the axe, isn't
• 20:17
  it? Talking space dialogue.
• 20:19
  Yeah, and I think this is, I mean, one side of me goes, well,
• 20:24
  this is the problem. It's suddenly, you know, Star
• 20:27
  Trek bollocks. And I mean, I'm being facetious
• 20:29
  when I say that, but it's suddenly not the most relatable
• 20:32
  thing you're going to see on a Sunday night.
• 20:34
  But then also Doctor Who's been back for 11 series.
• 20:37
  Everybody knows that it's about sci-fi bollocks, so why
• 20:41
  shouldn't it be able to do it? This poor, lovely actress from
• 20:44
  Downton Abbey. What's her name?
• 20:46
  Oh, I don't know. I've never.
• 20:47
  Seen Phyllis? Phyllis Logan.
• 20:49
  There you go. It just came to me.
• 20:51
  She she thought, I'm finally going to escape Sunday night TV
• 20:54
  after all those years on Downton Abbey and Doctor Who skips
• 20:57
  Sunday when she appears. She's pretty good though, I
• 21:00
  think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:03
  She was Lovejoy's love interest, wasn't she?
• 21:08
  Was she? She was, yeah.
• 21:10
  She's been Ian McShane has been inside her.
• 21:13
  No. We.
• 21:15
  Don't know for certain. Not on a Sunday night before the
• 21:18
  watershed. I'll tell you, I'll tell you
• 21:20
  what, this whole thing with the arcs, it feels, it does feel
• 21:23
  very Star Trek people with sort of mystical powers.
• 21:25
  But it actually felt a bit Stargate to me as well because
• 21:28
  they've got characters in there with glowy eyes and magical
• 21:32
  powers. And I'm wondering if Chris
• 21:33
  Chibnall was just a bit of a fan of genre television.
• 21:36
  I. Think it probably is.
• 21:39
  Just using the force. Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot all
• 21:42
  about Star Wars. But then I I often do.
• 21:45
  Well, Chibno wrote some Star Wars, didn't he?
• 21:48
  He wrote some scripts for the Star Wars TV series that never
• 21:51
  happened, sort of around the time that Doctor Who came back.
• 21:55
  OK. He was.
• 21:57
  It was this famous unmade TV series where they wrote like 100
• 22:01
  scripts and they were trying to get technology to catch up and
• 22:03
  they couldn't make it, so they just abandoned them all.
• 22:06
  So do. You know, I had forgotten all of
• 22:08
  these special effects sequences. Watching this again, I was like,
• 22:13
  that is amazing. Well, that looks terrific.
• 22:16
  It's do you know what, it's a good looking episode of Doctor
• 22:18
  Who. I'll give it that.
• 22:20
  And I think people don't, you know, consider that enough.
• 22:23
  Like I think it looks great. I know we're in a quarry, but
• 22:26
  we're always in quarries. And you know what?
• 22:28
  Over on Disney Plus in Star Wars, they're always in
• 22:31
  quarries, too. I watched an episode of Star
• 22:34
  Trek Discovery the other day you know and they were filming that
• 22:36
  in a quarry. And I know their budget is
• 22:37
  enormous. I'm.
• 22:39
  Going to have to pull you up again Dylan, because they're not
• 22:40
  in, not in a quarry that they've done 1 better than that.
• 22:43
  They've put themselves on a sound stage and projected a
• 22:46
  quarry behind them on the busy vision, visage, whatever, you
• 22:53
  know, they've had all choices of everywhere that could go, and
• 22:55
  they've went to a quarry by CGI. It's very convincing.
• 23:00
  If they have, I'm going to say it's better than those, you
• 23:03
  know, those sort of early 90s Star Trek planets, you know,
• 23:06
  that were just sound stages with a coloured light behind them.
• 23:10
  Yeah, I I missed the sort of the sort of late 90s early naughty
• 23:14
  sci-fi shows that didn't have the budget.
• 23:17
  Things like, do you remember space above and beyond and
• 23:19
  things like that? And then they last for like a
• 23:21
  season or two and they'd be on Channel 4 at like 11:00 at
• 23:25
  night. They brought back those shows.
• 23:27
  But they looked good compared to what we were getting.
• 23:30
  Yeah, but but strangely shitter than Star Trek.
• 23:35
  There's some really nice camera work here as well.
• 23:37
  This, this pan across this route, this Jamie Charles, isn't
• 23:39
  it from the first episode? Yeah, this is Sexy shot #1.
• 23:42
  The pan across and then the TARDIS materializing in the
• 23:46
  background. With the little toy going back
• 23:48
  and forth as they do, I mean. It's on an angle.
• 23:51
  Look, it's on an angle. There's plenty of atmosphere and
• 23:54
  the lighting is great. In fact, the lighting is great
• 23:57
  throughout this episode. Yeah.
• 24:00
  I don't think there's like a badly directed episode during
• 24:03
  the the Chidnall and Whitaker era, and I always feel like they
• 24:07
  get the lighting and the sort of the general production Bob on.
• 24:11
  I know others would disagree with me, but.
• 24:13
  I'm only going to disagree on one I think Legends of the Sea
• 24:16
  Devils. I don't think it's badly
• 24:17
  directed. I think it's terribly edited,
• 24:20
  and so it makes for a very sort of staccato viewing experience
• 24:24
  have. You done that again?
• 24:25
  Have you done that yet? What?
• 24:27
  No. Are you volunteering?
• 24:33
  Anytime. Oh look, it's Mark Addie from
• 24:36
  any TV show you care to mention. Now this is another one of those
• 24:42
  things where people complain about, you know, a wasted cameo,
• 24:45
  but I didn't much feel about that that recently.
• 24:47
  And I think he's actually pretty good in this.
• 24:49
  How is this a wasted camera? He's in 1/2 the episode.
• 24:52
  Yeah, but he should have been in one set on Gallifrey or
• 24:56
  something. Not that one, but you know, one
• 24:58
  of the other ones. I I do think that I've said this
• 25:04
  before, but to try and make this more cohesive, if these were the
• 25:06
  characters from like the ghost monument or something, I think
• 25:09
  it would have really helped to pull it together and just made
• 25:12
  it feel a bit more cohesive and maybe you know, Chibnall said it
• 25:15
  was pretty much a first draft and he's not 100% happy with
• 25:18
  this. I Maybe that's something that
• 25:20
  would have come later down the line, but I think it would have
• 25:23
  just brought the season together a little bit more.
• 25:28
  I think. It's investing, yeah.
• 25:30
  Well, you, you've hit the nail on the head of.
• 25:31
  My only real problem with this is I think all the guest
• 25:35
  characters are a bit boring and so odd.
• 25:38
  I really care about the fate of the Ox because they're a bit
• 25:40
  dreary. I don't really care about the
• 25:42
  fate of Mark Addie, even though I love Mark Addie.
• 25:44
  Do you ever watch that sitcom trolleyed set in the
• 25:48
  supermarket? Oh, it was in the first two
• 25:50
  series of that. It was cute as a button.
• 25:52
  It was brilliant. So I just think nobody's written
• 25:55
  with much humor, and I know these are dire situations, but
• 25:58
  you can still put in a bit of personality as well.
• 26:00
  I'll point out the humor, then when it comes, I'll.
• 26:03
  Please do. I was looking for a joke
• 26:05
  throughout. Yeah, he was then A Knight's
• 26:11
  Tale and I really loved him in that and obviously Robert
• 26:14
  Baratheon for half of the first series of of Game of Thrones.
• 26:19
  But I think he is he's he's he's got some stuff to do here and
• 26:23
  he's doing it. He's he's really playing the the
• 26:28
  guy who's lost his mind who literally he's lost his memory.
• 26:31
  He doesn't know you know who he is or what he's doing and you
• 26:34
  know he's he's playing that perfectly well.
• 26:37
  And when his memories start coming back, you know he really
• 26:40
  gets gets a hold of that stuff as well do.
• 26:44
  You think he gets much more personality when he gets his
• 26:46
  memory back, because I can't really see any discernible
• 26:48
  difference. I think it's as much as anyone
• 26:50
  else in any other. In this, yeah.
• 26:55
  But do you know what to counter that?
• 26:57
  To counter that? I think the regulars all come
• 26:59
  off really well in this, I think.
• 27:01
  That's the story then, though, isn't it?
• 27:03
  It's it's not the story of Paul Tracky and he's he's, you know,
• 27:08
  magic shaking reason or whatever it is that's in his box.
• 27:11
  It's the story is Graham. You know his.
• 27:14
  Name is his name Pal Tracky. Oh, Chibnoy is space names.
• 27:20
  Honestly, I I hate this. No, go on.
• 27:23
  Come on, come on then. Let's get this one done with
• 27:26
  space names. Yeah, what?
• 27:29
  What? Ian.
• 27:29
  What would you rather use called?
• 27:31
  Tarrant, Tarrant. Obviously, yes.
• 27:37
  Because fresh shine or something like that, don't.
• 27:39
  I don't know, it's it's just such a cliche.
• 27:42
  It's just Star Trek cliche. Just throw in AK and AZ and
• 27:45
  you're right. It's, you know, people in space
• 27:49
  are going to have space names. Not in the Rusty Davis era, they
• 27:53
  don't. They've got space names back
• 27:56
  then. Not all of them, but you know.
• 27:58
  Banner Kafalata. But that's that's fun to say.
• 28:02
  Power Trackie ain't. Raksa coca follow Bertorius.
• 28:05
  What was that fella's name in time?
• 28:07
  His children? Ko Sharmas?
• 28:09
  Oh, that was the worst. What a mouthful.
• 28:16
  Look, I'm just doing it for that portion of the audience, all
• 28:19
  right? We can't.
• 28:19
  It can't be a love in about the Battle of France, Koram.
• 28:23
  What? What?
• 28:23
  What planet did the the Slovene come from, Joe?
• 28:26
  Raxo, Corey, oh, Phallopatorius Fraser.
• 28:31
  That's a mouthful. I said.
• 28:33
  I know, but that's a mouthful. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 28:35
  OK, OK, I'm going to spell this out to you very simply.
• 28:37
  Sorry, that sounds really patronizing.
• 28:40
  Christopher Bitmead Techno Babble is dry as dust and
• 28:43
  boring. Douglas Adams Technobabble is
• 28:48
  fun and bouncy and witty and light.
• 28:51
  Chris Chibnall's space names are dull and dreary and obvious.
• 28:55
  Russell T Davis's space names are fun and witty and roll off
• 29:00
  the tongue. They are done.
• 29:02
  Interesting. Do you think it's because it's
• 29:03
  got that sort of Welsh inflection into into all his
• 29:06
  space names? I think children would like to
• 29:09
  say racks of corico phallopatorius, whereas no one's
• 29:12
  clamorant to say paltracki. Fair enough.
• 29:15
  Now we've just seen the return of Tim Shaw.
• 29:17
  Do we? Do we?
• 29:20
  Do we like Tim Shaw? I'm a big fan.
• 29:22
  I thought it was. A Yeah.
• 29:25
  Yeah, what what about you, Joe? If I phoned up a sex line and
• 29:28
  that voice came back at me, I would be so happy.
• 29:31
  Oh, he's got Hasn't he got a sexy voice?
• 29:34
  Hello. OK, OK, Can I be?
• 29:39
  Can I speak for those people? He's not the most memorable
• 29:43
  villains, though, is he? He serves his function.
• 29:45
  He tells the story, but there's not a great deal of character
• 29:49
  there, is there? Yeah, you get all you need to in
• 29:53
  the in the first one, you know, he's a fucking cheater
• 29:56
  basically. He's part of like an honourable
• 29:58
  warrior race and he's the the cheater of the lot.
• 30:02
  I thought you made a cheater like he was having an affair.
• 30:04
  Maybe as well. With that toothy face.
• 30:07
  Oh, cross you. Know I'm sure he's got a toothy
• 30:09
  faced woman or man somewhere. You know a.
• 30:12
  Race of assholes. He's.
• 30:14
  The biggest asshole, basically, And that's the first episode.
• 30:18
  What happens in the second episode though, is he starts to
• 30:21
  believe he's God of the assholes.
• 30:24
  Yeah, yeah. Just like in every Star Trek
• 30:26
  episode. Exactly my point.
• 30:29
  It's full of false gods. Star Trek.
• 30:32
  Now, is this the only Doctor Who finale that doesn't feature any
• 30:38
  returning elements from what I would call the big icons?
• 30:41
  I know this sort of The Wedding of River Song you do there is
• 30:46
  it's basically The Silence, which were a new series
• 30:48
  creation, but you still get Daleks and Cybermen and things
• 30:50
  like that, doing little cameos. Is this the only one that
• 30:53
  doesn't feature any sort of returning elements from beyond
• 30:56
  this? Yes.
• 30:58
  And he never did this again, did he?
• 30:59
  Chippers always brought, I mean, power of the Doctor.
• 31:02
  He brought the entire series back.
• 31:05
  Does does unit count for the vanquishes?
• 31:07
  Because there's Oh no God that's full of Daleksand, not
• 31:09
  excitement. Oh, is this your other sexy
• 31:14
  shot, Fraser? That's gorgeous.
• 31:15
  No, it's coming up though. It's.
• 31:19
  I I wonder whether this series suffers a little bit from being
• 31:22
  a sort of soft reboot when Stephen Moffitt also soft
• 31:26
  rebooted just a season before. Yeah, maybe.
• 31:31
  Because this is, this is sort of a back to basics approach for
• 31:34
  Doctor Who. It's a different take and you,
• 31:37
  Doctor Who, had already been softened slightly within the
• 31:40
  pilot. I know by the end of it we're
• 31:41
  blowing a whole hole in bill pots, but you know, but more
• 31:45
  people are watching this than watching Bill Potts get a whole
• 31:48
  blown in her because this, this is the highest viewed finale for
• 31:53
  the last three seasons of Doctor Who.
• 31:55
  No, yeah. Yeah.
• 31:57
  Well, stick those numbers in your pipe and smoke them.
• 32:01
  So both so hell bent was watched by 6.17 million consolidated.
• 32:13
  This was watched by 6.65 and the The Doctor Falls hold the line
• 32:21
  please call us was watched by by only 5.3 million.
• 32:26
  So this is this is a bigger hit than the return of the Mondasian
• 32:31
  Cybermen. And and can we say like I feel
• 32:33
  like there, there we can draw a line under the ratings argument
• 32:36
  because I think all three of us probably will agree that the
• 32:40
  world enough of time and the other one are better than this.
• 32:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the numbers kind of suggest
• 32:48
  otherwise for those people that would use numbers to build an
• 32:50
  argument. Yeah.
• 32:53
  OK. Well, then that line is drawn.
• 32:55
  Thank you. I complete.
• 32:56
  I completely agree. Look at.
• 32:58
  This. Look, what this series suffers
• 33:01
  from more than anything is the previous, you know, over a
• 33:05
  decade of Moffett and RTD style. Yeah, A storytelling.
• 33:11
  Bigger and better. Yeah.
• 33:13
  And I think you know Moffett and and Rusty are very similar for
• 33:20
  all that. They have different approaches
• 33:21
  and you know one is very pop driven, the other isn't and so
• 33:24
  on and so forth. The the type of oh, there it is
• 33:27
  sexy shot #2. What?
• 33:29
  Ryan Sinclair. I know, he's got beautiful lips,
• 33:32
  isn't he? Oh, when the walk through the
• 33:35
  mist. I know what you're talking
• 33:37
  about. And they've got it's, it's, it's
• 33:39
  like one of those video games isn't.
• 33:41
  It, yeah, that that is. That is just absolutely.
• 33:44
  That would turn up on one of those stars, Star Wars series,
• 33:47
  wouldn't it? You know, infinite budget.
• 33:50
  Anyhow, so yeah, Moffett and Rusty writes very similar.
• 33:53
  It's big. It's in your face.
• 33:55
  It's, you know, you're not left with any doubt as to what's
• 33:59
  happening. You know, this is a big
• 34:00
  character moment. This is feel some emotion.
• 34:03
  He has Murray Gold to make. Really.
• 34:07
  That's TV as high. Thank you for reminding me of
• 34:09
  that. Whereas I think Chris Chibnall
• 34:13
  writes very differently. He writes, you know, stories
• 34:15
  where he he leaves a lot more for you to fill in the gaps, you
• 34:20
  know, whereas you know Steven Moffat will not, you know, he'll
• 34:25
  plot everything watertight, you know, and if he doesn't plot a
• 34:28
  watertight in that episode, there will be one in six years
• 34:30
  time, which explains that little, you know, little chink.
• 34:37
  Whereas I think Chris Chibnall is a lot more subtle and what
• 34:40
  he'll do is just put things out there and let you make up your
• 34:44
  own mind. And I think that's what, you
• 34:46
  know, a lot of people, that's why people react to his era in
• 34:51
  the way that they do, is because they are used to, you know,
• 34:56
  knowing exactly what is going on.
• 34:57
  You know, this is a plot, this is a this is emotion.
• 35:00
  This is, you know, feel sad now, you know, being missed at my
• 35:03
  well. Most of the stuff is
• 35:05
  lobotomized, so I can see why that approach is appealing.
• 35:09
  Sorry, Dylan, I. I also think that Moffett got
• 35:11
  everybody in this mode of second guessing.
• 35:15
  And so you're suddenly in this sort of head cannon space where
• 35:18
  you're like, well, this is going to be this and this is going to
• 35:19
  turn out to be that. So every time you know, you
• 35:23
  suddenly get a Praxeus or something and everyone goes, it
• 35:25
  has to be the Sea Devils, because it's underwater and we
• 35:28
  now know it was never going to be the Sea Devils.
• 35:30
  It's the old plastic autons. Especially Autons.
• 35:33
  Exactly. But you know, even down to, I
• 35:35
  remember reading quite a well known, not my doctor account
• 35:38
  going, Oh yeah, well, they built the Sea Devils for Praxius and
• 35:42
  they looked terrible, so they couldn't shoot them.
• 35:44
  And at the end of the day they had to just, you know, cobble
• 35:46
  together this, this story which is a strangely believable Doctor
• 35:50
  Who reduction story, but it's also fundamentally not true.
• 35:55
  And I think a lot of the time it's about what fans thought
• 35:59
  they were getting when actually this is this is not, you know,
• 36:03
  that reason of Doctor Who. We've been programmed to expect
• 36:07
  a a dense arc within the season, and that didn't come.
• 36:12
  We've been programmed to expect a massive Wang Bang finale, and
• 36:16
  this is a much quieter episode. So I can't see why people are
• 36:19
  scratching their heads because it's just not what they're used
• 36:21
  to. It depends whether you're open
• 36:23
  to sort of new stuff or not, Guys, I we just talked over the
• 36:27
  sequence where Graham talks to the Doctor about killing Tim
• 36:33
  Short and she tells him to go back to the TARDIS.
• 36:35
  When I first watched this, that was the one scene of this that
• 36:38
  really made me sit up. What do you think?
• 36:41
  I think, I think there's a lot of people who have a problem
• 36:45
  with that, but I think it's a very honest response that this
• 36:48
  Tim Shore is the responsible for the death of the woman he loved.
• 36:52
  And I think there are so many people in that situation who
• 36:55
  would say exactly those things. But the arc of the story is
• 36:58
  ultimately he doesn't go through in it.
• 37:01
  Yeah, which is nice though, I think, yeah.
• 37:04
  Like I said, this is, this is the story that's getting told.
• 37:06
  You know, it's it's not space name or shootsy sky or whatever.
• 37:09
  It's it's Graham and his reaction to Tim Shaw coming
• 37:13
  back. And I love, love what Bradley
• 37:17
  Walsh is doing here because he turns Graham off.
• 37:20
  Yeah, you know, he doesn't. You know, if this was a Rusty
• 37:24
  episode, you know, there would be the choir of Murray Gold
• 37:27
  would appear and, you know, Graham would be overwrought and
• 37:30
  there'd be, you know, he has in his eyes and, you know, Fish
• 37:33
  shaking everything. But Bradley Walsh just literally
• 37:36
  turns everything off. And Graham is just so still and
• 37:40
  emotionless. It's like he's he's already, you
• 37:43
  know, decided, yeah, I'm going to kill Tim.
• 37:44
  Sure, if it kills me, that's fine.
• 37:46
  I've processed that. I've internalized that.
• 37:48
  I've dealt with it and he is just an absolute rock in the
• 37:52
  face of the Doctor. And that's what I love about
• 37:53
  that scene is not so much, you know, you know, Jodie or Graham
• 37:59
  or anything. It's it's Graham's absolute
• 38:03
  steadfastness. You know, I am going ahead with
• 38:05
  this and it's like I can't, you know, I'm, I'm not going to let
• 38:08
  you do that. You're not going to have a
• 38:09
  choice. Because that's what I liked
• 38:11
  about his decision not to do it. Because I kept thinking, oh,
• 38:14
  this was either one of the previous showrunners era.
• 38:17
  This would be a hysterical scene.
• 38:19
  There would be, it would be Tenant at the end of the end of
• 38:21
  time with the gun, you know, like straight to camera and all
• 38:25
  of that. And instead he just has a moment
• 38:27
  and he's like, no, I'm a better man.
• 38:29
  And then he actually shoots him in the foot anyway, which is
• 38:31
  very funny, I think. Oh yeah, yeah, that's a good
• 38:34
  joke. That bitch is there.
• 38:37
  Where Ryan talks to Graham and he's like, he calls him granddad
• 38:42
  and he goes, yeah, and it took a long time for us to get there,
• 38:45
  didn't it? And he goes, well, we're there
• 38:46
  now, so shut your face. I love their interaction.
• 38:49
  I think he's really underrated. I I love all these yellow lights
• 38:53
  as well at the moment and the use of the the sort of smoke and
• 38:56
  the hazer and everything. It just like they've really
• 38:59
  thought about the elements of design and that, you know 10
• 39:02
  years ago we'd just be under the Millennium Stadium somewhere
• 39:04
  with a couple of neons if we were lucky.
• 39:07
  And now we've got this gorgeous looking which is clearly just an
• 39:10
  abandoned factory or working factory somewhere but just
• 39:14
  making it look more sci-fi, it's.
• 39:16
  But they did a similar thing in Ascension of the Cybermen, don't
• 39:19
  they? And it's just about, you know,
• 39:20
  using what you've got around you and making a convincing alien
• 39:24
  world, alien spaceship, that sort of.
• 39:25
  Thing and it's it's it's the perfect contrast, like the
• 39:28
  Sunangra Conundrum, which is very Star Trek.
• 39:30
  It's very polished and smooth and, you know, lit with pastel
• 39:37
  colours and whatnot, whereas this is like down and dirty and
• 39:41
  hour. It feels big because it's a big
• 39:44
  location. I really like the fact you can
• 39:45
  do big, wide shots that give it a sense of space.
• 39:49
  You know, in in a way that only only since they've brought in
• 39:51
  these new fabulous cameras for Series 11, you know, you can get
• 39:55
  these massive vistas as well, which I really, really love.
• 39:59
  Another sort of criticism I have of this episode is Yas gets fuck
• 40:05
  all to do in it and especially when we've just we've just done
• 40:08
  Flux and things like that and she's so integral to the and I
• 40:11
  think it doesn't need much. In fact, I think that there
• 40:14
  needs to be a subplot on Earth. A bit like you're a bit like in
• 40:19
  the it's not parting of the ways is it's Bad Wolf where Rose is
• 40:23
  back home with their family. If you put Yas back home with
• 40:26
  their family and then when you've got those elements of the
• 40:28
  end of the Earth being destroyed, you cut back to the
• 40:31
  family and you give them some sort of subplot there, suddenly
• 40:34
  the the terror feels relatable because it's all going back to
• 40:37
  planet Earth and you there's people you know in peril and I
• 40:40
  think that would have just, you know amped it up a little bit
• 40:43
  and perhaps made it more accessible for people.
• 40:45
  There is a problem with it. Teeny tiny floor with that.
• 40:47
  And that is this story set 3407 years after The Woman Who Fell
• 40:53
  to Earth Oh. Bugger, really.
• 40:55
  Yeah, because Tim Shaw zaps onto the planet of the Ox on a Rasco
• 40:59
  of Colos. And then 3407 years later is
• 41:04
  when this is taking place. But so is he destroying Earth
• 41:07
  back then or Earth 3000? Presumably Earth 3407 years
• 41:13
  ahead of of now it's and some of that, Pete Lambert pointed out.
• 41:17
  When I went on Twitter and said, you know, why do people hate
• 41:19
  this, you know, He said. There's there's no emotional
• 41:21
  investment for me because the events are taking place 3000
• 41:25
  years in the future, so why do I care about?
• 41:28
  If he's just chosen a number there, it didn't have to be 3400
• 41:32
  years into the future. He could have zapped away from
• 41:34
  the Earth and it was 20 years later, you know, or next week we
• 41:39
  still could have done yours back at home with her family.
• 41:41
  Oh, they could, you know, they could have shot it, figured out
• 41:44
  some way to send the weapon back through time, you know?
• 41:47
  Maybe if he had done that second or third draft, which like you
• 41:50
  said, he's he, he was unhappy with this script because it was
• 41:54
  essentially his first draft going to production.
• 41:56
  He would have sat and gone, oh, there's not enough emotional
• 41:59
  involvement in this. Let's add another layer because
• 42:02
  I was watching the the the climax of this, and Dylan, you
• 42:06
  said that to me before about cutting back to Yasi's family.
• 42:08
  I was like, yeah, this needs one of those Russell T sort of
• 42:12
  moments where something I care about is in jeopardy because I
• 42:15
  don't really care about the ox. But the ox is a funny one.
• 42:22
  Because, you know, should we care about the ox or should we
• 42:25
  consider them as the bodies? I feel like we should care about
• 42:28
  somebody in the climax of the story.
• 42:31
  That's Graham, because that's the story.
• 42:32
  But the the the oaks again, Pete Lamba pointed out, you know,
• 42:36
  they've they've committed genocide 9 times over.
• 42:39
  They've zapped 9 planets. I mean, I don't know where the
• 42:42
  other four have gone because there's only five come the
• 42:44
  finale. They don't know if that was
• 42:44
  budgets or what. But there's, you know, there's
• 42:48
  nine planets which have been zapped and you know, the doctor
• 42:51
  says, you know, plan aside, planetary genocide.
• 42:54
  You know, should we then be, you know, given the oaks a pat on
• 42:57
  the back at the end? And go, all right, go on.
• 42:58
  Keep your faith. Or if we know the regulars
• 43:03
  aren't going to die and the axe are a load, a load of wankers,
• 43:07
  or there's no investment at all, it is there.
• 43:09
  It's it's in the. It's it is.
• 43:11
  It's the grim story that's, you know, that's where we need to
• 43:15
  well. That's what I'm saying.
• 43:17
  It's not enough. Again, it's possibly down to the
• 43:21
  the lack of a second draft or or anything, or the fact that there
• 43:25
  is, you know, you know, Yas gets nothing to do, but you know you
• 43:28
  can't just park her in the TARDIS like Nessa having a nap.
• 43:31
  You've got to do, you know, you've got to give us something
• 43:34
  to do. It is lovely, you know, we're
• 43:35
  talking about these fabulous shots and the lion and all of
• 43:38
  this, but just to remind us, it is still Doctor Who.
• 43:40
  We've got these planets here encapsulated as bits of plastic
• 43:44
  with balls rolling around inside of them.
• 43:48
  I mean, it's all a bit pirate planet, isn't it?
• 43:50
  And you know. It's a completely pirate planet.
• 43:53
  Yeah, and I know everybody you know, so I hasn't got the
• 43:55
  original idea, but Doctor Who has been cannibalizing its past
• 43:58
  for years and. Years.
• 44:00
  And long may it continue. I think we missed the joke that
• 44:04
  I was talking about because. The joke is there only one.
• 44:07
  There's no. There's more than one.
• 44:08
  But the one I remember is when Traki and Yas are walking down
• 44:12
  and he's like, oh, I remember my name now it's like Gaston
• 44:14
  Paltrack your oh, let's call him Derek, you know, because no one
• 44:19
  likes a space name. Derek Paltracki And you say no,
• 44:22
  what planet you come from and it's like Sturm, it's like space
• 44:25
  name. And then it's like what planet
• 44:26
  do you call among us? And she's like Earth and just
• 44:27
  laughs in her face. And it's such a meta sort of
• 44:31
  joke. Now when you think of like the
• 44:32
  what we've just said about space names that way he's turned
• 44:36
  around and laugh and at her. But not having a space name for
• 44:38
  our planet, that made me chuckle immensely.
• 44:41
  Anyhow, move over, Ken Dodd. That's all I'm going to say.
• 44:46
  This is a lovely sense. It's better than the Internet
• 44:48
  family. Come on.
• 44:49
  Oh no. The Internet family has gone
• 44:51
  down in notoriety. I love that scene.
• 44:53
  Now they're so funny, but for all the wrong reasons.
• 44:59
  What's going on here? What are these robots all about?
• 45:03
  It's the sniper bots from Ghost Monument.
• 45:05
  It's like it's the see that I think that's that's probably a
• 45:11
  missed opportunity for not just for this story but for the whole
• 45:15
  season is the Stenza. Yeah.
• 45:18
  Because we had, obviously we'll have Tim Shaw and Woman Who Fell
• 45:22
  to Earth. And then the very next episode
• 45:24
  you get mention of, you know, Timeless child not never went
• 45:29
  anywhere. And then it's the Stenza, is it?
• 45:32
  The Stenza built this planet and made this planet what it is and
• 45:35
  it. Did feel like they were building
• 45:37
  them up and then they just it. Did feel as if you know
• 45:40
  something else was going to come with this.
• 45:41
  And it could have been. It could have just been
• 45:42
  sprinkled throughout. You know, the Stenza, you know
• 45:45
  who's who locked you up in that prison in Rosa.
• 45:48
  It was the Stenza who's attacking the ship with a
• 45:51
  batting on. It's the Stenza, you know the.
• 45:53
  Kabla men are handing out all the weapons for the Stenzer you
• 45:57
  know. I I wonder whether there was a
• 45:59
  thought to sort of, you know, and we we would have seen loads
• 46:02
  of the stenzer at the end and maybe they just run out of
• 46:05
  money. I mean that's something we won't
• 46:06
  know for 20 odd years I imagine. But it does feel like they were
• 46:10
  at one point going that way. Yeah.
• 46:12
  Did you see that shot a second ago where the camera was slowly
• 46:15
  panning on Tim Shaw? In the middle of the shot with
• 46:18
  those huge turbines going up and down, there was smoke and red
• 46:22
  lighting. I mean, that looked like an
• 46:23
  incredible shot from some weird art house horror movie.
• 46:27
  Like visually this is really impressive.
• 46:30
  It is. It really struck me.
• 46:33
  He looks. He is disgusting.
• 46:36
  You know when you have your teeth out, right?
• 46:38
  And they fucking stink, You know, because they've been
• 46:41
  jammed in there with bits of food for ages?
• 46:43
  His face must absolutely reek. But look at him, just the ways
• 46:48
  he's lit from underneath and all you see is the eyes in his own
• 46:52
  teeth, Not just the ones in his face, but his own teeth.
• 46:54
  And he's got that sneer in his face.
• 46:56
  And who's the actor that plays him?
• 46:59
  Oh, I can't remember but. I feel a bit sorry for him
• 47:02
  actually, because you know, compared to some of the villains
• 47:05
  that come later, obviously Dewan's Master or Dylan, as we
• 47:08
  discussed the fabulous Swarm from Flux who got to have a lot
• 47:12
  of fun with their roles, this is a very serious role, isn't it?
• 47:18
  Again there's there's lots from to get his teeth into.
• 47:20
  I mean he's he's, he's going for it yet and stamp Samuel Oatley
• 47:26
  and I think he's fantastic. He's really, you know, you know,
• 47:31
  if you're saying that Tim Short isn't given enough to do and
• 47:34
  there's not enough character there, and he's very one note,
• 47:37
  my words Samuel, he's playing that note perfectly.
• 47:40
  Yes, You know, there was so much menace on this scene among the
• 47:43
  way conference Graham later on. You know he is absolutely
• 47:48
  venomous and that is a thing of the assholes.
• 47:52
  Yeah, I think. I wonder how people would have
• 47:55
  responded as well if that was this was the first episode of
• 47:59
  the next season or something like that as well, or episode
• 48:03
  four of the next season or something.
• 48:04
  I think it's it's placement as a finale that rubs people up the
• 48:08
  wrong way and. I think this should be in like
• 48:10
  the 42 slot, you know, bang in the middle of the season, that
• 48:13
  sort of one. That can be OK.
• 48:17
  See, I'm struggling with that because I think you know, if if
• 48:22
  that's the story, then you need to take the grim stuff out.
• 48:26
  You know, if you're going to put it somewhere else, you need to
• 48:28
  take the Graham stuff out. And if you take the Graham stuff
• 48:31
  out, there was very little else. Then story.
• 48:33
  So maybe pull resolution forward made that the finale, Yeah.
• 48:37
  Well, I mean, that's, that's the question, you know, is this for
• 48:39
  the finale always? Resolution Not for me.
• 48:41
  I consider Resolution the finale.
• 48:43
  I don't because there was a break in broadcasting and I just
• 48:48
  think it is. Theorematically it is and it is
• 48:52
  the better episode, but they they played this as Doctor Who
• 48:56
  end of the season episode 9:50. I think this is the finale.
• 49:01
  I think Resolution, you know, there's not enough to tie the
• 49:05
  rest of the season with Resolution.
• 49:07
  If you look at something like Last Christmas, I would say
• 49:09
  absolutely 100% Last Christmas is the final episode of Series
• 49:13
  8. Because oh see.
• 49:15
  I'll just consider that the Christmas special after Series
• 49:17
  8. Sort of like The Coder, rather.
• 49:20
  Than if you it's it is, but it's that sort of like final tying up
• 49:24
  of you know the Doctor and Clara and especially if Clara had left
• 49:29
  at the end of that, that would have been the perfect you know
• 49:33
  end. And I think that's much more
• 49:35
  like the last episode than resolution is to this series.
• 49:41
  There is one thing about Tim Shaw is he's one of the very few
• 49:45
  villains where the make up is so effective.
• 49:47
  I actually find him a bit repellent to look at.
• 49:50
  I was sort of wincing when I was looking at him, then the way all
• 49:52
  the light was glinting on those horrible molars all over his
• 49:55
  face. He's he's nasty looking do.
• 49:59
  You think there was much more to do with Tim Shaw.
• 50:00
  Do you think he could have been a recurring character?
• 50:02
  I know we said about the Stenza, but do you think you could, you
• 50:05
  could have kept bringing Tim Shaw back?
• 50:08
  I think they do excellent sort of one season villains, so
• 50:12
  obviously the Master next year and then swarm and assure the
• 50:16
  year after. So no, I don't think so.
• 50:21
  Possibly there might be another story in there somewhere.
• 50:24
  I don't know what that story would be though.
• 50:26
  I can't you know, think, you know, it does feel like I would
• 50:30
  like to see Tim Shore again. You know, if he came back and
• 50:38
  you know, maybe I give Rusty a run at home and say wait, go and
• 50:40
  then you know, do something really, you know, powerful and
• 50:45
  dramatic and emotional with with this character and but I just,
• 50:50
  you know, I don't think there's enough story there left to to
• 50:53
  warrant him coming back. If that was the case, I wondered
• 50:56
  whether we were going to get his family coming.
• 50:58
  Sort of looking for him going, yeah, he is an asshole, but he's
• 51:01
  our asshole. Not quite like that, but you
• 51:04
  know what I mean? Like we sent him here.
• 51:07
  Where is the little shit? What's he?
• 51:09
  Doing. Well, because the Woman that
• 51:11
  fell to earth is. I'm sure get you.
• 51:13
  I'm going to tan your hide. The woman that fell to Earth is
• 51:17
  basically Predator 2, isn't it? That's set in Sheffield.
• 51:21
  It's that thing you send them down.
• 51:23
  So you said it's part of their training, part of them.
• 51:26
  They're sort of becoming manhood or what, Creature hood or what.
• 51:30
  Stenza Hood. Well, he's going to lead.
• 51:33
  I wasn't. He's going to become King of the
• 51:34
  Stenza. Exactly.
• 51:36
  So they've lost their leader. Using the God like powers of the
• 51:39
  ox. Actually I was quite surprised
• 51:42
  in the clock. I love this slow motion shot of
• 51:44
  Jody running down the the corridor there.
• 51:47
  Can we call it a corridor? It's a bit too pretty to be a
• 51:50
  corridor. It's a corridor.
• 51:51
  It's a space corridor. But I think the first time I
• 51:54
  watched this like Star Trek, the second the techno Babble here I
• 51:57
  switched off. But this time I was like, no,
• 51:59
  I'm really going to try and pay attention to see if this makes
• 52:01
  sense. And actually he does establish
• 52:03
  all the elements and then he brings them all together.
• 52:06
  All those bits of technology come together to to beat him
• 52:09
  short at the end, I was like, yeah, OK, so the nuts and bolts
• 52:12
  of this do make sense. It's just a little dry.
• 52:19
  On the page please on and dry. One draft only.
• 52:24
  Maybe Dylan? When we did Spy Fall with Luke
• 52:28
  Malloy? Yeah, and Jodie Whisker's name
• 52:30
  was rarely off our lips. I can't help but notice we're
• 52:34
  this far into this episode. We haven't actually mentioned
• 52:37
  the 13th Doctor too much. I think she's great in it, I
• 52:41
  think, but I think it's a serviceable finale that you know
• 52:46
  she's her presence is felt. She gets some good moments.
• 52:49
  But I I think again, this is one of the things that people sort
• 52:52
  of brush up against it. It doesn't involve her giving 5
• 52:56
  huge speeches that are the most iconic Doctor Who can possibly
• 52:59
  be. She's just having an adventure.
• 53:01
  She goes in, she gets into a bit of trouble, fixes it and fucks
• 53:05
  off and you know, it's it's very serviceable Doctor Who in that
• 53:09
  respect. But I think, I think perhaps
• 53:11
  there isn't quite, you know, something definitive to latch on
• 53:15
  about her performance in it. I mean, I do like the fact that
• 53:18
  she's very excited about the ox because she's heard about these
• 53:21
  great creatures where she's never met them.
• 53:23
  And I did think actually the last thing you know where she
• 53:25
  says travel hopefully has a big smile on her face, go and have
• 53:29
  adventures off we go. And that is so definitively 13.
• 53:33
  I was like, that's a that's a nice note to end the season.
• 53:36
  On. And I don't mean in any way,
• 53:38
  shape or form that she's battered this or anything like
• 53:40
  that. I just think we're not used to a
• 53:43
  Doctor Who finale like this, and we're not used to our Doctor
• 53:46
  sort of behaving like this in the finale.
• 53:49
  I think there's a difference between her performance here and
• 53:52
  it's spiteful. I think she's a little more
• 53:54
  knowing in that second season, yeah.
• 53:57
  And there's more confidence. Well, I don't think she's she's
• 54:00
  not confident here, but I just feel like she's sort of
• 54:04
  experimenting with the row in lots of different ways in that
• 54:06
  first series and it's quite exciting for that as well.
• 54:09
  They're all they're all better in their second series as well,
• 54:11
  but apart from Matt Smith. Look at that shot on the earth.
• 54:21
  But this is what I mean that that shot of the earth is that
• 54:23
  it just it all feels a bit empty and nameless because it's just a
• 54:27
  CGI earth. I just think you need some
• 54:30
  something relatable there to sort of pull this back to.
• 54:33
  Having said that, I feel like we get things like that in Star
• 54:36
  Trek all the time and I I I don't mean to be anti Star Trek.
• 54:40
  It's like, why does it work in Star Trek but not in Doctor Who?
• 54:42
  That literally happens in the pirate planet.
• 54:44
  In the 11th hour. There's a threat to the Earth.
• 54:46
  Califax is going to go around the Earth and destroy it, and we
• 54:50
  never cut back to the Earth. We never have any sort of
• 54:52
  emotional involvement with what's going on there.
• 54:54
  But I think the new series has programmed us to expect that
• 54:59
  kind of emotional resonance. Maybe that's the problem?
• 55:03
  Yeah. But I mean, we've never had
• 55:06
  finale season finales for 26 seasons, you know, unless
• 55:10
  someone was regenerating. Do you not remember time flight
• 55:13
  Fraser? Unfortunately, the reign of
• 55:15
  terror. We can have a lot of fun here,
• 55:19
  you know? Actually, no.
• 55:21
  You and I are halfway through Planet and Spiders.
• 55:22
  That's absolutely a series finale, but it's a.
• 55:25
  Doctor finale. It's not just a series finale.
• 55:28
  It's a product. You know, it's the end of an
• 55:31
  era. It's not like, oh, it's the end
• 55:33
  of the series. So let's you know.
• 55:37
  I think the nearest you get to it is the Armageddon factor, and
• 55:40
  that's only by the nature of the series.
• 55:43
  As you say, the rest are all Doctor finales.
• 55:45
  I think the nearest you get is Lagopoulos, you know, which
• 55:48
  pulls together a lot of plot points, CVS and all of this and
• 55:53
  uses that to create the sort of big universe destroying climax.
• 55:57
  Oh dear, you both look so bored. I'm so sorry.
• 56:00
  And neither one of you a fan of Lagopoulos?
• 56:03
  I would rather watch Battle of Ram scorer have Carlos any day.
• 56:08
  Cy heart is sweating in his boots right now and.
• 56:11
  I'm I'm not a Season 18 sort of hater, it's one of my least
• 56:16
  favourites. But I just think that sort of
• 56:19
  run of keeper of track and to Castro Valva is some of the
• 56:22
  dullest Doctor Who in the world and not how you see off your
• 56:25
  longest serving doctor and introduce their replacement.
• 56:28
  I think Castro Valva is wonderful.
• 56:30
  I really enjoy Castro Valva. It's, it's got a lot of magic in
• 56:34
  it and a lot of, you know, wonder and heart and soul.
• 56:40
  And I just don't get how the same guy wrote the episode
• 56:42
  before. Yeah, I love the last two
• 56:46
  episodes of Castro Valva, but the 1st, 2:00?
• 56:49
  Oh, I love running around the TARDIS, putting lipstick on.
• 56:53
  You know, Dave Odoni's cosplay of of virtually every every
• 56:56
  Doctor that's come before him. It's.
• 56:58
  What I love is everyone that loves these stories because I
• 57:01
  know your brother loves Castro Valva because he's recently done
• 57:05
  that. For this and my other half, one
• 57:07
  of his favorite stories ever is Keeper of Track and which I have
• 57:11
  I utilized in the early stages to get into his pants.
• 57:14
  So I mean, I'm very grateful to it.
• 57:17
  Who? Who?
• 57:18
  How many people have used the keeper of chalk and to get into
• 57:20
  someone? 'S pants.
• 57:22
  Are you the only one? I first used the Android
• 57:24
  Invasion and I'll never forget the time when Toby Hado said.
• 57:27
  Are you telling me you use the crawls to get sexual favours
• 57:31
  from somebody else like I did? And I'm not ashamed.
• 57:35
  Did Tremus use the key? I don't.
• 57:38
  Know. Let's get out of this hole
• 57:39
  quick. What's going on?
• 57:44
  Oh, they're going to use their emotional inhibitors or whatever
• 57:48
  to stop the oaks from destroying Earth and then figure out how to
• 57:52
  put the planets back where they got them from.
• 57:56
  You know, I I do think another problem, it's not a problem,
• 57:59
  it's a problem for other people with this season is we've all
• 58:03
  discussed this at various points is I do think they're companions
• 58:08
  This year they are going for this sort of more naturalistic
• 58:11
  approach. So you haven't got Rose Tyler
• 58:14
  taking on the powers of the TARDIS or Martha Jones
• 58:17
  travelling the world. Or, you know, you could go on
• 58:20
  and on, The impossible girl being at every point in the
• 58:23
  Doctor's life. I don't know what happened at
• 58:26
  the end of series 6, Amy Pond murdering Madame Kavarian.
• 58:30
  You haven't got those big massive moments.
• 58:33
  They are just people in this adventure reacting to it how
• 58:38
  people do. I really like that approach and
• 58:40
  I found that really refreshing, but I think that's another thing
• 58:43
  where people are like this just isn't what I'm used to.
• 58:49
  Absolutely, yeah. I think.
• 58:50
  I think, I think this whole season comes as a massive shock
• 58:54
  to people and I don't. I I think the more they revisit
• 58:58
  it, I think some people will never change their minds.
• 59:01
  But I know I I think this era ages well and people will
• 59:05
  revisit it and find much to enjoy.
• 59:08
  It's ripening lovely, I find. I, you know, when I watch this
• 59:13
  live, you know, I did struggle with that difference between
• 59:16
  what I was now used to on the previous 22 showrunners.
• 59:20
  And I found myself having to work hard to like it a little
• 59:23
  bit. I thought I shouldn't be having
• 59:25
  to work hard to like to like Doctor Who.
• 59:28
  And then obviously Series 12 came along and you know, ups and
• 59:34
  downs and then, you know, flux hitters like a big demon space
• 59:41
  train and I. Wondered where you were going
• 59:44
  with that? Acid of that low flux, but you
• 59:47
  know, coming back now and watching series 11, you know,
• 59:50
  it's it's wonderful. It's just so you know, once you
• 59:53
  do disconnect yourself from the expectation of what it's going
• 59:58
  to be and what it's going to be like and just enjoy it for what
• 1:00:01
  it actually is, it's so much more enjoyable.
• 1:00:05
  Because this was such a palate cleanser, I think this is the
• 1:00:09
  one people are rediscovering above all the others.
• 1:00:11
  Because, you know, like in that last season you've got Daleks
• 1:00:14
  and Sea Devils and Cybermen and that sort of stuff that people
• 1:00:17
  can buy into. Anyway, this is the one that's
• 1:00:19
  kind of a bit original and trying something new.
• 1:00:23
  Sexy Shop #3 coming up. And it's it's the era that I
• 1:00:28
  most revisit the the three seasons here at the moment.
• 1:00:33
  If I've got 45 minutes, I'll stick on a Jodie episode, no
• 1:00:36
  problem. Yeah, actually, I'm finding that
• 1:00:39
  as well. It used to be Russell's, but now
• 1:00:42
  it's this. I just love seeing Jodie.
• 1:00:45
  She just makes my heart sick. I think what you said earlier
• 1:00:49
  about that, that scene where she finds out it's the Oaks, I think
• 1:00:53
  that's, you know, you go back and you can see, you can really
• 1:00:56
  see Jodie's doctor in that because it's, you know, she's
• 1:00:59
  doing that thing that she never does and, you know, confronting
• 1:01:01
  someone and have an agency and whatnot And, you know, standing
• 1:01:04
  down, you know, Adriana Space named Ox and you know, she just,
• 1:01:11
  you know, and she says I'm the Ox and she just, yeah, the Ox.
• 1:01:14
  Just that child again of just absolute Glee of of of meeting
• 1:01:19
  something new and surprising in the universe and and those
• 1:01:22
  moments, you know, Jodie absolutely gobbles up, I think,
• 1:01:26
  you know, one of the the reasons I'm glad that she doesn't have
• 1:01:28
  those big sort of Capaldi esque Dr. speeches, you know, it's
• 1:01:35
  because she doesn't actually do them that well.
• 1:01:38
  She gets, she gets one in Saint Angra and she gets one in Eva,
• 1:01:41
  the Daleks. And I just don't think that's.
• 1:01:45
  Oh, nonsense, She aces. That's.
• 1:01:47
  Are you talking about that a bit About the time loop?
• 1:01:49
  We'll try again. We'll that is an excellent
• 1:01:51
  scene. It's yeah, if you give that to
• 1:01:54
  Capaldi, then he would absolutely, I think she.
• 1:01:58
  Sells it and then some. I think Jody is a lot more like
• 1:02:01
  Peter Davison, and she's a lot more naturalistic and she's a
• 1:02:05
  lot more of a subtle performer. I think she really shines when
• 1:02:11
  she has moments like that where she gets to, you know, just
• 1:02:16
  bring a little bit of joy along, you know, give us something, you
• 1:02:20
  know, grand standard to do. That's not her.
• 1:02:24
  You know my favorite scene, my Geordie scenes are Tim Shaw in
• 1:02:28
  the one I felt worth where she's, you know, you've got Tim
• 1:02:31
  Shaw this big stomp and beast come towards them and she just
• 1:02:34
  takes him down with two words. It's like, are you seeing Tim
• 1:02:37
  Shaw? And he's.
• 1:02:38
  Just. Defeated by two words.
• 1:02:42
  You know the the scene in Orphan 55.
• 1:02:45
  If I had crayons and half a kind of spam, I could make you from
• 1:02:47
  scratch. You know when she's given
• 1:02:50
  moments like that where she gets to be that sort of acerbic?
• 1:02:53
  But she had hundreds of moments like that.
• 1:02:55
  Yeah, I really like her frantic exposition.
• 1:02:59
  Oh, now, I wanted to ask you about this because she does
• 1:03:03
  explain a lot. She.
• 1:03:04
  Yeah, and I think Chris Chipnall learns very quickly that she can
• 1:03:09
  deliver the exposition in a sort of frantic, doctory way that I
• 1:03:13
  think works, really works really well for me.
• 1:03:16
  I know a lot of people don't like it, but I think she's given
• 1:03:19
  a lot to say and she she pulls it off.
• 1:03:23
  When we were watching The Vanquishes, she basically spent
• 1:03:25
  the entire episode explaining what was going on because it was
• 1:03:29
  going at such a lick. But there was three of her
• 1:03:31
  there, and they were doing it very entertainingly.
• 1:03:35
  Oh, this is so funny. This is the best joke in the
• 1:03:37
  thing where he shoots him in the foot and he's like, I didn't
• 1:03:40
  mean to. It was an.
• 1:03:41
  Actress before oh, don't tell the doc.
• 1:03:43
  Please don't. But I do think Chippers is, you
• 1:03:47
  know, capable of going. Yeah, well, that worked rather
• 1:03:49
  well. Next time I'm going to do it
• 1:03:51
  with Laser Shoes in Spy Four. That would be amazing.
• 1:03:57
  That was a lovely shot looking up at the pair.
• 1:03:58
  This is very well directed, isn't it?
• 1:04:00
  We also. Missed.
• 1:04:02
  So during the sort of confrontation between Tim Shaw
• 1:04:04
  and Graham, he was in, Tim Shaw was in silhouette the whole
• 1:04:08
  time. And it was, you know, it's very,
• 1:04:10
  I was going to say it's quite Star Wars, but it's a big,
• 1:04:13
  imposing, threatening shape. He really, really is.
• 1:04:19
  Do you know what this feels like to me?
• 1:04:22
  Sexy shot #4 coming up. Well, that one there a bit.
• 1:04:25
  Woman in slow motion that. Was gorgeous, but I like the bit
• 1:04:30
  on Jody in the console room with the sparks flying behind her as
• 1:04:33
  well. Reign of sparks.
• 1:04:35
  Amazing. And it wouldn't be a finale if
• 1:04:38
  you didn't blow up the console room at some point in some way,
• 1:04:41
  shape or form, would it? And this is great.
• 1:04:44
  She's returning all the planets to where they should be.
• 1:04:46
  So it's not like she isn't doing something epic, She's just saved
• 1:04:49
  what, How many planets? 5-9 something like that.
• 1:04:54
  It's because you're right. We haven't got, you know, the
• 1:04:56
  the TARDIS toe in the Earth back with the the Choir of Doom
• 1:05:00
  taking us back. You.
• 1:05:02
  Know. Or perhaps if these planets were
• 1:05:03
  some planets we'd visited in the season or something like.
• 1:05:06
  That that's a great idea, but. Let me, I mean, Rusty Davis sort
• 1:05:10
  of did that as well, didn't it? I'm wondering if it would have
• 1:05:14
  worked if the ox was something from the season as well.
• 1:05:17
  I mean, he doesn't have to pull all these things in.
• 1:05:19
  I'm just trying to make it more sort of traditional Doctor Who
• 1:05:22
  finale, but I don't. Does it need to be more
• 1:05:25
  traditional or? Would it?
• 1:05:27
  Would it work? Do you think it would work just
• 1:05:30
  as well if it was just the oxen? Excuse me?
• 1:05:34
  But I don't think, I don't think this isn't very traditional.
• 1:05:37
  I think this is it's planning. Yes, it's aliens.
• 1:05:40
  It's it's all the stuff we used to.
• 1:05:42
  Let let's you know, imagine we are given the script another run
• 1:05:45
  over. You know, would you want to do
• 1:05:47
  that or do you think you could do something with the elements
• 1:05:49
  that we've got, you know, and Polish up the script a bit with
• 1:05:53
  what we've got and make it better?
• 1:05:55
  I think, I think I would definitely find a way to link it
• 1:05:59
  back to present day Earth and I would definitely.
• 1:06:01
  Make the characters. At least the characters are like
• 1:06:03
  Mark Abbey's character and things people that we've met
• 1:06:05
  before like the ghost monument. People that would definitely
• 1:06:07
  make it more palatable for me if if there was just some interest
• 1:06:11
  there. That bit there where he's in
• 1:06:13
  sort of cryogenic storage, whatever it is.
• 1:06:15
  Am I the only one getting destiny of the Dalek vibes when
• 1:06:18
  they put when they put Davros in that icy box?
• 1:06:22
  Yes you will. Yes.
• 1:06:23
  And again, Tim, Tim. Tim Shaw's there, ready to ready
• 1:06:26
  to be unleashed on Big Finish or in.
• 1:06:30
  No way. I've got it.
• 1:06:32
  We're going to have two villains together, both of which deserve
• 1:06:35
  their third shot. Chris Noff and Tim Shaw coming
• 1:06:40
  together. Oh, what?
• 1:06:42
  What? What's an image?
• 1:06:47
  Obviously, the rest of us. Even I'm not that sick, Dylan.
• 1:06:51
  The Stenzo will have to come in and rescue Tim Shaw at some
• 1:06:54
  point, because they've suddenly turned into robots that can't
• 1:06:56
  defeat their robotic, you know, adversaries.
• 1:07:00
  And they need Tim Shaw's non robotic genius to break the
• 1:07:03
  deadlock. So that's what will happen next.
• 1:07:05
  Exactly. Destiny of the salad, Man.
• 1:07:09
  That all seemed over very quickly.
• 1:07:11
  You remember what Luke said in Spy Fault, about how Russell had
• 1:07:14
  that brilliant way with secondary or even tertiary
• 1:07:18
  characters and giving them a moment so you cared about them.
• 1:07:21
  I feel like we could care about someone in this crew if they
• 1:07:24
  just had a little moment, you know?
• 1:07:26
  But they are just completely faceless characters that are
• 1:07:29
  just there to be his crew. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:33
  It's all very just servicing the plot, like a bit more about the
• 1:07:38
  cat, but then they've all had their memories removed for half
• 1:07:41
  of it, and then the rest are in stasis.
• 1:07:42
  It's like. It's not even his crew.
• 1:07:45
  I mean the way that. No, it's it's it's the crews
• 1:07:48
  from the other ships. He's he got four and his crew
• 1:07:51
  and two have been killed by Tim Shaw.
• 1:07:52
  So they've only got to get two out when they find 2 doesn't.
• 1:07:55
  So that's why they're like oh we have only come to get two and
• 1:07:58
  we're going to have to get the rest out and that's what slows
• 1:08:00
  them down. So these are just, you know, so
• 1:08:02
  he's she's saying, oh, I can take the rest of these people
• 1:08:04
  home if you want because, you know, bigger on the inside.
• 1:08:06
  And he's like, no, no, they'll just keep on the floor.
• 1:08:08
  It's fine. Oh yeah, that.
• 1:08:10
  That is that graveyard of ships from earlier, wasn't it?
• 1:08:12
  I was getting braided Mobius vibes from that one.
• 1:08:15
  I've got it. Mark Addie should have been
• 1:08:16
  Sabalon Glitz. Oh, gold.
• 1:08:22
  Oh yeah, I could take that box off.
• 1:08:23
  Yeah, it's worth a lot of. Grotes oh.
• 1:08:27
  I love this. Get a lot of grotes for them
• 1:08:29
  teeth. I mean, who would want an
• 1:08:31
  episode of Doctor Who to end with Jodie Whittaker smiling
• 1:08:34
  like that? It's gorgeous.
• 1:08:37
  Absolutely. And you know, if this is the way
• 1:08:39
  you're going to end your series, then I think you know it is.
• 1:08:45
  It's not bad, it. Ends in hope as well.
• 1:08:47
  I know you said sort of travel and hope.
• 1:08:48
  It's like we don't need a big cliffhanger into, you know, some
• 1:08:52
  tragic event that's going to be full everybody at Christmas for
• 1:08:55
  the 400th time. What's really interesting, there
• 1:08:58
  is so many times during that commentary there we sort of came
• 1:09:03
  to the conclusion was the episode isn't the problem.
• 1:09:05
  It's the expectations that people have going into the
• 1:09:08
  episode being a finale that's the problem.
• 1:09:11
  That I mean, let's say I asked yesterday, I haven't watched it.
• 1:09:14
  I genuinely went out, you know, not necessarily the the to read
• 1:09:19
  people's views out, just to kind of get a feel from people as to
• 1:09:23
  why this episode wasn't well received, well liked or you
• 1:09:28
  know, generally despised. And that was the overwhelming
• 1:09:31
  feedback was actually, it's not that bad.
• 1:09:33
  It's just not a very good finale.
• 1:09:35
  Excuse me, Fraser, you had a few questions in there you are.
• 1:09:38
  I hope you're going to read those out to us.
• 1:09:39
  Oh yes, we'll get to the to the Twitter questions.
• 1:09:42
  Thank you very much. How?
• 1:09:43
  Exciting. OK.
• 1:09:46
  Should we do that now then? Yeah, of course.
• 1:09:49
  Right there, so. Dylan, I'll battle you for the
• 1:09:51
  answers. Come on all.
• 1:09:53
  Right. Go to the one that didn't get
• 1:09:57
  off Twitter, which is from a chap called Simon Hart.
• 1:10:01
  Anyone know of him? No, I've never heard him.
• 1:10:04
  No, No, he keeps. Chipping sounds nice.
• 1:10:07
  Really keeps chipping in so we've got to humour him.
• 1:10:08
  So it's one we kind of discussed already, but would this story
• 1:10:13
  fit better earlier in the series?
• 1:10:15
  Graham going against the Doctor, for instance, would sit better
• 1:10:17
  before it takes you away, etcetera.
• 1:10:20
  I think yes. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:10:23
  I've said it many times. I think you switch, you switch
• 1:10:25
  the placements of those two episodes, it becomes a very
• 1:10:27
  different end to the season. I mean, people still didn't like
• 1:10:31
  the frog, so I mean, who knows which would have been better
• 1:10:36
  received or not, but. But if you're going to go out,
• 1:10:38
  define expectations. Do it in the quirkiest way
• 1:10:41
  possible. What was that you were saying
• 1:10:43
  about me being a contrary booger?
• 1:10:44
  No, to be honest, like I said, you are.
• 1:10:50
  Yeah, I've kind of thought about this and I think you could swap.
• 1:10:53
  It takes you away in this around.
• 1:10:54
  But I think, you know, it's both stories.
• 1:10:58
  I've got a central theme of Graham dealing with his grief,
• 1:11:02
  you know. So I don't want this story to
• 1:11:05
  come earlier because I want that to be the end of the story.
• 1:11:09
  Is it where I want that to be the end of the series, You know,
• 1:11:11
  Graham, you know, getting a bit of closure, getting a bit of
• 1:11:14
  peace, you know. So for me it's a question of
• 1:11:19
  which way around do these two go.
• 1:11:21
  And I think I'm, I'm happier with this one being last because
• 1:11:24
  we end with that way with, you know, Jodie leaving, smiling and
• 1:11:30
  saying travelling hope. And also, I think, you know, we
• 1:11:35
  have stuff in here with Ryan and Graham that wouldn't work before
• 1:11:40
  it takes you away because it takes you away that moment
• 1:11:42
  where, you know, yeah, Ryan rescues Graham basically by
• 1:11:47
  Corbyn and Grandad. And so they have that emotional
• 1:11:49
  connection for the first time. And then this episode, they
• 1:11:53
  really work on that and play on that.
• 1:11:54
  And he's like, yeah, I love you, man.
• 1:11:56
  And he's like, you're what? He's like, I'm not saying again,
• 1:11:58
  don't you know, you heard us, you know?
• 1:12:00
  Love those bears. Don't know that's that's really.
• 1:12:03
  So quiet. It's.
• 1:12:04
  It's such a quiet character moment, you know, You never
• 1:12:07
  would have had that in those earlier seasons.
• 1:12:08
  Yeah, I'm going to be contrary to you now though, just to fight
• 1:12:11
  that opinion and just to say that, yeah, like this might be
• 1:12:16
  arrogant. I feel like you could get rid of
• 1:12:18
  most of the problems that people have with this episode by not
• 1:12:22
  making it a finale. So I think, I certainly think
• 1:12:25
  the reputation of the episode would be improved a lot if it
• 1:12:29
  was a mid season episode. It would, but then something
• 1:12:31
  else would suffer. Oh.
• 1:12:33
  They'd always. Complain you know it, you know
• 1:12:36
  it takes you away with, then become the one that gets whipped
• 1:12:39
  for not being the end of the universe.
• 1:12:43
  Well, it just so happens to be a hamster of a blunt pen night
• 1:12:45
  episode featuring two extremely sexy men discussing.
• 1:12:49
  It Takes you Away, which can tell you where you're wrong if
• 1:12:52
  you don't like that one. Exactly.
• 1:12:55
  What else you got right? To Twitter then.
• 1:12:58
  So Andy Parkinson, friend of the podcast Hi Andy.
• 1:13:00
  Andy says. I have no strong feelings about
• 1:13:02
  this one either way. Thanks, but is this the best
• 1:13:07
  Graham story? Oh, OK We didn't really get the
• 1:13:11
  Graham episode, did we? Not really.
• 1:13:14
  Like I say that we've got, we've had takes you away takes.
• 1:13:17
  You away? Oh, yeah, of course.
• 1:13:18
  Sorry, we just said it. And actually, I think Woman Who
• 1:13:22
  Fell to Earth ultimately becomes the Graham episode as well.
• 1:13:26
  Really. Is it his best?
• 1:13:29
  Is it his best even? No, I don't think it is.
• 1:13:32
  I think generally Graham is a fantastic part of the team and I
• 1:13:37
  know he's often, often the comedy relief, but now I take
• 1:13:40
  the episode before again. Yeah.
• 1:13:42
  Of us, of us in, you know, come in, you know the following
• 1:13:46
  series, she was 12. Think of like essentially the
• 1:13:50
  cyber and I think that's a really good Graham story.
• 1:13:54
  It's he gets to flirt with. Radio.
• 1:13:56
  He gets to flirt with Sophie Aldridge in Power of the Doctor
• 1:13:59
  does Yeah, I've never saw that coming in a million years.
• 1:14:02
  But then I suddenly real I still think she's like, 18 and I'm
• 1:14:06
  going, oh, that's a bit wrong. And my Swiss roommate, now
• 1:14:08
  they're the same age. Now I'm like, all right, oops.
• 1:14:12
  Andy, Andy, Second question is, is it the better Tim Shaw story?
• 1:14:18
  No, no. I think the first one ages out
• 1:14:23
  ever so slightly. It's a lot more of a fun story.
• 1:14:25
  Tim Shaw gets a little bit more to do, but it's a perfectly
• 1:14:30
  serviceable Tim Shaw story. Absolutely.
• 1:14:33
  I love. I love what they are doing with
• 1:14:35
  Tim Shaw. I love that they've moved them
• 1:14:36
  from just being you know the biggest arsenal on a planet of
• 1:14:39
  our source to now thinking he is God of the arsenals.
• 1:14:42
  I think I'm megalomaniacs cited when you know another
• 1:14:45
  performance really comes but I agree that you know for the the
• 1:14:48
  screen time we'll get from him and and then and everything else
• 1:14:52
  the woman that felt worth is is the better Tim Shaw stormy.
• 1:14:55
  There's only one God of the arseholes around here.
• 1:14:58
  All right. Oh, stop it.
• 1:14:59
  Stop it. Stop it now.
• 1:15:01
  Can you say no? No.
• 1:15:03
  No, wait, wait. You can't view me.
• 1:15:05
  I'll be charging. That's cool.
• 1:15:09
  I feel like the Woman Who Fell to Work gives Tim Shaw a big
• 1:15:13
  climax. If you're that No, no, no, wait.
• 1:15:17
  That people were expecting in this episode.
• 1:15:20
  So that's why it's a better episode, because it does
• 1:15:22
  culminate in that brilliant scene up on the What's it
• 1:15:26
  called? What am I looking for?
• 1:15:28
  Queen. Thank you up on the crane.
• 1:15:31
  And so that when we don't really get that here.
• 1:15:34
  So that's the better episode for me.
• 1:15:39
  Rod who? Hey, Rod.
• 1:15:41
  Hi, Rod. How would you have chosen to
• 1:15:44
  wrap up the season given that the rest of season 11 is
• 1:15:47
  relatively low stakes? What would have been your
• 1:15:49
  approach to ensure a consistent yet satisfying conclusion?
• 1:15:53
  Don't I think you've answered. That.
• 1:15:54
  I've done that a few times, yeah.
• 1:15:56
  And I'm throwing in my vote for your answer as well, because I
• 1:15:58
  just think it's it's a bold and brilliant choice and I never
• 1:16:02
  would have thought about it until you said it.
• 1:16:05
  Yeah, Paul Quinn. Hi, Paul.
• 1:16:09
  This is a really good story, another that received a lot of
• 1:16:11
  undeserved approprium it's dismissed as slight, but there
• 1:16:15
  was an epic quality in its back story.
• 1:16:17
  A real sense of the Doctor's previous actions having
• 1:16:19
  unforeseen consequences from which the Doctor then absent.
• 1:16:24
  Hence we, like the Doctor have missed the battle of the title,
• 1:16:27
  but are there to see the Doctor confronted by the earlier
• 1:16:30
  mistake and how that error in the situation is resolved.
• 1:16:33
  And Jedi type figures with glowing eyes, one for fandom to
• 1:16:37
  re evaluate. No.
• 1:16:38
  Questions. Your observation then, Yeah, I
• 1:16:42
  mean again yesterday, a lot of people, you know, it's the
• 1:16:45
  title, it's, you know, there's no battle in the Battle of
• 1:16:48
  Anscor, I'll call us. And it's like there was the kind
• 1:16:50
  of walk through it in Sexy Shot #2.
• 1:16:56
  But you know, it's space names, isn't it?
• 1:17:00
  Darren Lit Roundels, One of my closest friends died suddenly a
• 1:17:04
  few days before transmission, so it was a much needed bit of
• 1:17:07
  escapism. It's got all of Chibnall's usual
• 1:17:10
  scripting issues, but it's quite watchable, with excellent design
• 1:17:13
  and impressive visuals. But don't think it's the total
• 1:17:16
  Nadia. Others do.
• 1:17:19
  Quite a few people jumping in with positive opinions.
• 1:17:22
  Yeah, Darren does have a question as well.
• 1:17:25
  Did it really matter that the show broke with new form and not
• 1:17:29
  have a series finale? Does the hate for it come from
• 1:17:32
  false expectations rather than what the episode is like?
• 1:17:36
  It definitely comes from false expectations.
• 1:17:38
  I think we discussed it a bit during the thing that I think,
• 1:17:40
  yeah, it's more about what people want of, you know,
• 1:17:43
  returning elements and dialects aside.
• 1:17:45
  And then and then when the series does that, they go, could
• 1:17:48
  we just not have a finale that doesn't have any of the
• 1:17:50
  returning elements? And we get it and they go, we're
• 1:17:52
  not like. That we would never be happy.
• 1:17:58
  Although I've got to say, I'm not immune because I sat there
• 1:18:00
  and watched this on broadcast. When it ended, I went, well,
• 1:18:05
  that was certainly an episode of Doctor Who.
• 1:18:11
  I said earlier about watching it with a friend of mine and then
• 1:18:14
  going to the pub afterwards. Well, we did that for both that
• 1:18:17
  and the timeless children, you know, sort of 18 months apart or
• 1:18:20
  whatever he was. And I can tell you what, he did
• 1:18:22
  not like that. And we we, we got a, we had a
• 1:18:25
  polite chat about Ram, scorer of Carlos afterwards, and then
• 1:18:28
  moved on to life, the universe and everything.
• 1:18:31
  But for the time as children, it was basically shouting at me in
• 1:18:34
  the pub by my house. Good glimpse into your pub
• 1:18:39
  conversation, because there's a couple of times I've been down
• 1:18:41
  the puppy view. All we've talked about is BBV
• 1:18:44
  Adventures. Well, I just.
• 1:18:47
  I'm going to see your land. Or now is it all day?
• 1:18:49
  Is it Sunday? Oh God, someone banned the fans.
• 1:18:52
  They're. Going to come.
• 1:18:56
  Rosters a fortune in glass the last time.
• 1:18:58
  Just nasty, especially when you're talking about this era.
• 1:19:01
  He threw me through the window after the timeless children.
• 1:19:04
  Why? Because you said I quite like
• 1:19:06
  that one. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:19:08
  Got James H Fit UK has three questions for us.
• 1:19:12
  The first one we've we've answered is this the season
• 1:19:16
  finale or is that resolution a few weeks later?
• 1:19:19
  So already answered that one. Number two, if there had been a
• 1:19:21
  Confidential for this episode, what should it cover?
• 1:19:27
  I think I think it would have been good to look at the
• 1:19:30
  production process and the writing process of this series.
• 1:19:33
  And while I doubt they would have sat there and gone, hey,
• 1:19:35
  this is our first draft. I think looking at the pressures
• 1:19:38
  of just turning something around and getting it made.
• 1:19:42
  I think would have been an interesting sort of confidential
• 1:19:46
  and you know, to hear Chris Chibnall talk more about the
• 1:19:48
  themes running through the series of where it was all
• 1:19:50
  headed. And I, I.
• 1:19:52
  You've got to wonder how much things like that helped back in
• 1:19:56
  the day, when you've suddenly got Russell T Davis telling you
• 1:19:58
  exactly what what you've just seen was all about.
• 1:20:02
  I I would like to see half an hour of Phyllis Logan and Mark
• 1:20:05
  Addie bitching about the fact that they're playing thanklessly
• 1:20:09
  serious roles for an entire half an hour.
• 1:20:14
  I never really watched Confidential, so oh.
• 1:20:16
  I did. I know.
• 1:20:17
  I used to like seeing how they did the special effects
• 1:20:19
  sequences. I think maybe it's for me, it
• 1:20:22
  would probably just be like a sort of overview, like a
• 1:20:24
  celebration of the series. Probably probably some slow
• 1:20:28
  motives of a Snow Patrol song as well, you know, That was the
• 1:20:30
  sort of thing he used to do constantly.
• 1:20:34
  See, that's why I never watched Confidential.
• 1:20:37
  I think they were quite fond of Coldplay as well.
• 1:20:40
  I can see you coming out in a cold sweat there, Dylan.
• 1:20:43
  My my mum used to call Doctor Who confidential.
• 1:20:46
  Doctor Who? The autopsy.
• 1:20:49
  It was. James Last question then Series
• 1:20:54
  11 mostly went 50 minute episodes.
• 1:20:58
  Series 1045 minutes. Would this have benefited from
• 1:21:01
  losing 5 minutes? No.
• 1:21:04
  No. I don't think any episode in
• 1:21:07
  this series will have benefited losing 5 minutes.
• 1:21:10
  No, I think one thing we are, you know, the pacing of this
• 1:21:13
  struck me again when I watched back the first time the other
• 1:21:16
  night. You know it doesn't stop.
• 1:21:18
  You know there's there's not a sense of like you know, wheel
• 1:21:21
  spinning or anything. There's something happening all
• 1:21:23
  the time. It's, you know, the the land,
• 1:21:25
  the TARDIS, there's a mystery. They get into the mystery, the
• 1:21:27
  start solving the mystery. That move on the walk through
• 1:21:29
  the quarry, they get to the obelisk, they go on that
• 1:21:31
  obviously they split up. So something's always seems.
• 1:21:34
  To be happening structurally sounds the end so dramatically.
• 1:21:38
  What I would like to do is go back in time, hire Dylan as
• 1:21:41
  temporary script editor, have him write a 10 minute sequence
• 1:21:45
  that we can add to the episode featuring Yas and her family
• 1:21:47
  back on Earth, and just add a bit of interest in the finale
• 1:21:50
  for me. That's all.
• 1:21:52
  I mean an extra 10 minutes probably wouldn't have gone a
• 1:21:54
  gone a miss in in places you. Know I can just hear the
• 1:21:57
  audience listening to this now that I hate it going 10 more
• 1:22:00
  minutes of this. I I don't think it's one of
• 1:22:02
  those stories where you go, oh, it needs to be A2 parter.
• 1:22:05
  It doesn't. I think it's probably 5 or 10
• 1:22:07
  minutes of that that back story that perhaps you're missing.
• 1:22:10
  Yeah, a bit more. A bit more, Tim.
• 1:22:12
  Short a bit more, you know. Maybe he's a scene with the Yas
• 1:22:17
  and Graham because we've had the Doctor and Graham squaring off.
• 1:22:19
  We'll have Ryan and Graham maybe something someone Yas and Graham
• 1:22:23
  to. Kind of just one scene where
• 1:22:25
  they give Mark Adi a personality.
• 1:22:29
  Go back and watch it again Meltham Rob, haven't having the
• 1:22:37
  stolen planets. The small trophies reminded me
• 1:22:39
  of the pirate planet. As well, yeah.
• 1:22:43
  Absolutely. How older Creation might put
• 1:22:45
  this on tonight after we've talked about it today and last
• 1:22:48
  night? Yesterday, Daniel Rawnsley.
• 1:22:52
  Oh, Daniel. Three questions from Daniel
• 1:22:55
  Rawnsley One, Does this story, for all its strengths and flaws,
• 1:22:59
  work better if you pretend resolution is the finale?
• 1:23:03
  Everyone's obsessed about this being the finale, aren't they?
• 1:23:05
  It's a burgeon being a finale. Yeah, I think we've kind of
• 1:23:09
  answered that one as well. But also in a season that is so
• 1:23:14
  new and fresh, suddenly just ending it with a Dalek story,
• 1:23:17
  even though it's quite a fresh Dalek story, ultimately we don't
• 1:23:20
  get traditional Daleks. I think is a bit of a a dance
• 1:23:25
  script is wrong because it's a brilliant episode resolution,
• 1:23:28
  but in my opinion at least. So I just wonder whether just
• 1:23:32
  going back to the cliche of of Dalek finale is not a bit of a
• 1:23:36
  get out and it's more interesting to do this and not
• 1:23:39
  quite succeed than just Darling. Yeah, then master.
• 1:23:43
  I think I loved what what Chipmel did with his Daleks.
• 1:23:46
  You know he's got 3 Daleks stories and they're the three
• 1:23:48
  specials. Yeah, and they're and they're
• 1:23:50
  all doing different things with the Daleks which I think is a is
• 1:23:53
  a brilliant. I know we get them in flux and
• 1:23:55
  we get them in power of the Doctor, but you know, that's
• 1:23:57
  more just like, hey, throw everything at the at the at the
• 1:24:00
  screen. But that could be, you know, the
• 1:24:03
  Daleks in flux could literally just be, you know, what do you
• 1:24:06
  call them, them little spinny orb things.
• 1:24:08
  And that's the time loads. They're talking.
• 1:24:12
  Fine, yeah. Could be anything really.
• 1:24:14
  And this might be controversial to say, but I think all three of
• 1:24:17
  those Daleks specials are fucking excellent.
• 1:24:19
  Yeah, especially coming after Moffett just didn't seem to be
• 1:24:23
  interested in doing the. Daleks, no chippers was
• 1:24:26
  determined to make them kick ass, wasn't he?
• 1:24:28
  Actually, I think he saved the best for last because even the
• 1:24:31
  Daleks is top three chippers for.
• 1:24:35
  Me second question then. This is a rubbish question.
• 1:24:37
  Who comes up with questions like this?
• 1:24:38
  Snog Marry shooting the fucking lock up for life in a Stenza
• 1:24:42
  stasis chamber. How is he getting that?
• 1:24:45
  From Paul Tracky? Tim Shaw, A sniper bot.
• 1:24:50
  I'm not spending a lifetime with Tim Shaw, so he's he's staying
• 1:24:53
  locked up. I'm not snogging or married,
• 1:24:56
  Mark. Addie, all right?
• 1:24:59
  I'm going to marry Tim Shaw just because, you know, he's going to
• 1:25:03
  be a gold. God, man.
• 1:25:05
  Think of the toothpaste Bill. Oh, sorry.
• 1:25:11
  Who else was it? Sniper bot.
• 1:25:16
  Oh, I'll snug the Sniper Bot. We don't know what's going on
• 1:25:18
  under there. And I'll do the other thing too.
• 1:25:21
  Who was it? I'll Mark Addy.
• 1:25:22
  Yeah, he can. He can.
• 1:25:24
  Yeah, I forgot it was now. I'm marrying Mark Addy just
• 1:25:28
  because he's the only person I think I can hold a conversation
• 1:25:30
  with there and I'm snugging the sniper bot.
• 1:25:34
  And yeah, so Tim Shaw staying locked up.
• 1:25:37
  I'm not snugging a robot, so I'll marry the robot.
• 1:25:41
  Tim Shaw's going in the stasis chamber, and that leaves
• 1:25:43
  Patricky for us now. Just make sure make sure you
• 1:25:48
  feel me all right. It's.
• 1:25:49
  Robert Baratheon. Come on.
• 1:25:50
  Oh yeah. That's true.
• 1:25:53
  Chippy tea? Oh no, Hang on.
• 1:25:55
  Sorry, I've forgotten Daniel Wanzi's last question #3 What is
• 1:25:59
  the most boring Doctor Who story ever?
• 1:26:02
  Underworld. I didn't even have to think
• 1:26:04
  about it. Underworld, I only realized a
• 1:26:07
  few years ago was actually 4 episodes and not six because
• 1:26:10
  it's that that. Thought it was 3 hours long.
• 1:26:14
  Yeah, yeah, I'm going Underworld.
• 1:26:18
  Or I would look. He looks unconvinced.
• 1:26:20
  Well, what's your most boring story ever?
• 1:26:22
  The Dominators. No, of course that's five
• 1:26:25
  episodes of non-stop excitement and a bump.
• 1:26:28
  Probably going to have to see a Planet of Fire.
• 1:26:32
  Oh really? It's just.
• 1:26:35
  Nothing with Anthony and Ian can be that boring.
• 1:26:38
  No. That's what you'd think.
• 1:26:40
  You know and. Especially with that beard stuck
• 1:26:43
  on so badly. Oh, I've got another one.
• 1:26:45
  Four to doomsday I will never. Oh yeah.
• 1:26:48
  Gee, my other half been trying to convince me he's just done it
• 1:26:51
  for two. Or true that that's a forgotten
• 1:26:53
  classic. I mean, honestly, sometimes I
• 1:26:55
  wonder about him. Yeah, I mean, I wish it was time
• 1:26:58
  flake, but there's just. Lots of times like, it's fun.
• 1:27:02
  It's not. There's just there's a lot going
• 1:27:05
  on. It's just not very good.
• 1:27:07
  What's going on Christmas? Boys in it, Fraser, Come.
• 1:27:13
  On. Let's move on.
• 1:27:15
  Chippy tea, then? Chippy.
• 1:27:17
  Tea. Are there any redeeming
• 1:27:18
  features? Well, yes, there are.
• 1:27:19
  Chippy tea. You're about here.
• 1:27:20
  Nine of them at the end of this. Oh yeah.
• 1:27:22
  Gee. Oh, I forgot we had to do that.
• 1:27:24
  This was going on so long I forgot we had to do the reason
• 1:27:26
  squads. And battle?
• 1:27:28
  Did I miss a battle? Well, yes you did.
• 1:27:30
  The battle occurred before. Yes, hardest team got there.
• 1:27:34
  So. Because all the big budget
• 1:27:36
  things always happen off screen on Doctor Who, yeah.
• 1:27:39
  Yeah, do. You remember the Battle of
• 1:27:41
  Demons Run, which was just a few guns going off in a warehouse.
• 1:27:47
  Spaceship manners and everything.
• 1:27:49
  Yeah, I know that was a bat. Now that was a battle in my day.
• 1:27:53
  We knew how to do a battle. He's never risen higher, you
• 1:27:56
  know. I like my battles with somebody
• 1:27:58
  reading and made-up poem over the top of it.
• 1:28:00
  Yes, had a cummy baby. Butler, Sylvester, Paul in Walds
• 1:28:07
  on Tywins, that was. That's pretty epic, yeah.
• 1:28:11
  That was amazing. That was a good, good battle.
• 1:28:14
  Last one, then we've got Eric White.
• 1:28:16
  I Eric, who's commented not question but comment.
• 1:28:19
  I don't think it's much good, but there are stories that are
• 1:28:22
  far, far worse. That does seem to be the
• 1:28:25
  consensus, doesn't it it? Is I think that is a good
• 1:28:27
  summation of the story, if I'm being honest.
• 1:28:29
  I think, you know, yeah, we've talked lots of nice things about
• 1:28:33
  it because I do think it needs it needs a bit of a a boost in
• 1:28:36
  his reputation. There are far, far worse
• 1:28:39
  stories, but there's far better as well.
• 1:28:43
  Do you know what I'd suggest? Everybody does, Because I've
• 1:28:45
  just had a great time just watching the pretty pictures but
• 1:28:49
  talking to you, to charismatic gents.
• 1:28:51
  So turn the sound down, get on a zoom call with your best mates,
• 1:28:55
  stick the episode on and just talk all over it.
• 1:28:57
  But watch the pictures. I think that's the best way to
• 1:29:00
  do it and you'll never be bored. You know what counted you down
• 1:29:03
  at the start, So you could just put it on and and watch as we
• 1:29:05
  talk over it. There we go.
• 1:29:07
  I I have a question for you both.
• 1:29:09
  Oh, is it the worst one of the season?
• 1:29:11
  No, OK. Yes, I think so.
• 1:29:15
  If you're going to say ratings in the UK, go away.
• 1:29:18
  I love that episode. Yeah.
• 1:29:19
  Me too, for for me, unfortunately, this is the
• 1:29:21
  weakest of the season. I think, sorry, go on.
• 1:29:25
  No, I was just going to say I it's I'm quite comfortably.
• 1:29:29
  So I found a lot of things to. I've found a lot of positive
• 1:29:32
  things to say about it. But I've I've got so much love
• 1:29:35
  for all the other episodes. But it just it it is.
• 1:29:39
  I can't lie and say that it it isn't a slight disappointment,
• 1:29:42
  but I still had a great time watching it, I think.
• 1:29:45
  I think there's just an element of fun that perhaps is missing
• 1:29:49
  more than anything else as well. They've just like I need.
• 1:29:52
  I just want a bit more excitement on the fun level
• 1:29:57
  rather than the the big sci-fi scales.
• 1:30:01
  I mean I'm I'm a big sci-fi fan. I would go but you know I'm I'm
• 1:30:05
  the techno bubble man. I'm the you know the man who who
• 1:30:09
  likes it when you know starter characters shout you know
• 1:30:15
  impressing sound in words about iconic on ways and.
• 1:30:17
  I'm surprised you got a Star Trek podcast.
• 1:30:19
  And you know, I always sleep during those bits, but you know,
• 1:30:25
  I we so. I like this one, you know,
• 1:30:27
  because you know has got that end.
• 1:30:28
  The ending is what saves this one for me.
• 1:30:32
  I like the ending. I love that, you know, You know,
• 1:30:35
  Geordie is doing that thing of kind of talking 50 that doesn't
• 1:30:37
  about yourself and solving the problem and out loud and then
• 1:30:40
  going off and doing it in the sparks and explosions and it's
• 1:30:43
  it's wonderful. And it's not just Ryan playing
• 1:30:46
  some grime music to get some spiders in the room to lock them
• 1:30:49
  away and forget about them and let.
• 1:30:50
  But now Ragnas in the UK as the doctor, sticking her head down a
• 1:30:53
  massive hole and a huge spider saying hello to her.
• 1:30:58
  I don't like spiders. I love that episode so much
• 1:31:01
  actually. Do you know what I think?
• 1:31:03
  I think Chiba's structures this season, everyone Lords sees
• 1:31:09
  series 10, season 10, whatever you want to call it.
• 1:31:12
  I think this is a much, but in terms of the quality of the
• 1:31:15
  stories and sort of leading up to the finale, I think some of
• 1:31:19
  the best stuff is that comes after Saranga.
• 1:31:22
  So what is it? Demons of the Punjab Kablam the
• 1:31:26
  Witch finders. It's takes you away.
• 1:31:28
  It's like 1234 Bang Bang Bang Bang.
• 1:31:31
  What did you get towards the end of series 10-8 Years of Light.
• 1:31:33
  I know you like that. Empress of Mars, which is
• 1:31:37
  traditional and a bit dull. The two very tedious monk
• 1:31:40
  stories You know I ain't. They come before that.
• 1:31:44
  It's the. Monks, But they are in They're
• 1:31:47
  sequential. Sorry.
• 1:31:51
  Small brand. Yeah, I think, I think every
• 1:31:54
  season has a tough story or two, and I think it's unfortunate
• 1:31:58
  this came at the end. But then there's so many people
• 1:32:01
  that will argue that the resolution of so many other
• 1:32:03
  seasons is sort of, oh, you know, it's a Mcguffin, it's it's
• 1:32:07
  the Jesus thing again. It's love saves the day.
• 1:32:09
  And this is something doing, this is Doctor Who doing a
• 1:32:13
  different finale. It is just it just didn't work
• 1:32:15
  for everybody. It is It is right.
• 1:32:17
  Something new. I mean, you know, triples, the
• 1:32:21
  mission statement, as it were, was to take it back to basics.
• 1:32:24
  You know, if you listen to that interview that we're talking
• 1:32:26
  about at the top of the the podcast, you know, He says he
• 1:32:28
  went back when he was prepping See his first season.
• 1:32:31
  He went back to the original documents in the BBC archive and
• 1:32:36
  said, you know, what was the point of this show?
• 1:32:39
  Educate, inform, entertain, you know, not necessarily in that
• 1:32:43
  order, but that's, you know, he really brought it back back down
• 1:32:47
  to basics. So you can look at this as his
• 1:32:49
  reign of terror, as it were, which I love.
• 1:32:52
  I got an incredible education about the the the moral joys of
• 1:32:57
  Amazon when I watched Kablam, so I consider myself well educated
• 1:33:01
  after series 11. Yeah, but I mean, how many
• 1:33:04
  people knew about know as much about partition?
• 1:33:07
  I mean, that was astonishing. You know, all I know about
• 1:33:09
  Partition is because I did history and someone put Gandhi
• 1:33:12
  on teacher. Literally world wheeled Italian
• 1:33:14
  said we're going to watch Gandhi.
• 1:33:15
  There you go, where you've learnt about Indian history.
• 1:33:18
  I don't want you to throw fruit vegetables at me, but as an
• 1:33:21
  examination of grief, Graham's story throughout this season I
• 1:33:26
  think is so much better handled than Heaven Sent 12:50.
• 1:33:32
  Like, I just think it's so much better done as a long form bit
• 1:33:35
  of storytelling. We have a beautiful couple of
• 1:33:37
  payouts towards the end. Anyway, we could talk about this
• 1:33:41
  till we're blue in the face, but we do have to go to bed at some
• 1:33:44
  point tonight. So boys, even though two of us,
• 1:33:48
  this is the weakest episode of the season.
• 1:33:49
  I think that's a high bar though, because we still think
• 1:33:52
  this is entertaining. So three things each.
• 1:33:56
  We'll go Fraser, Dylan, me. Fraser, I'm going to be really
• 1:34:02
  selfish and I'm going to pick Jamie Child's director in the
• 1:34:06
  direction of this stroke because I don't use like what I want to
• 1:34:08
  pick us as well. But I really think this is a
• 1:34:10
  beautifully directed story. There's there's so many, you
• 1:34:15
  know, picked up four sexy shots there.
• 1:34:17
  But the you know there's dozens more of just, you know,
• 1:34:21
  interesting angles and you know decisions that is made.
• 1:34:26
  You know it looks cinematic. It's just, you know, the the the
• 1:34:29
  light and the location where everything just makes it look
• 1:34:32
  absolutely beautiful. So that is my first pick.
• 1:34:38
  I'm going to pick in a similar vein, a gentleman called Sam
• 1:34:42
  Hesman. I'm assuming it's a gentleman, I
• 1:34:44
  don't know for certain. But Sam Hesman, the director of
• 1:34:48
  photography on this. And they also did The Demons of
• 1:34:51
  the Punjab, Nikola Teslas, Night of Terror, Fugitive Jadu,
• 1:34:56
  Ascension of the Cybermen and the Timeless Child, which are
• 1:35:00
  all fantastic looking episodes. And I'm specifically the
• 1:35:03
  lighting. I think that the choice of
• 1:35:05
  lighting, the use of haze, these are smoke like the wet Dan's.
• 1:35:09
  They do. Just just really every shot is
• 1:35:13
  composed perfectly and I I think that Sam does a really good job.
• 1:35:19
  That's where you bring value with your television background.
• 1:35:25
  Yeah, as major sitting and oh, it looks pretty and you're like
• 1:35:27
  the photography. I'll just make the.
• 1:35:29
  Photography. He's doing this one.
• 1:35:31
  I am going to thank Douglas Adams who wrote a fantastic
• 1:35:36
  Season 16 story featuring miniaturized planets and the
• 1:35:40
  Earth in danger at the last minute, just in time for Chris
• 1:35:43
  Chidwell to look over his shoulder and go.
• 1:35:45
  I'm going to do that all those years later, but take all the
• 1:35:47
  humour out of it. It's a great idea, it's a really
• 1:35:50
  great idea and I think it does add an an interesting level of
• 1:35:55
  jeopardy to the story and it takes us a little while to
• 1:35:59
  discover those weird bits of plastic our planets.
• 1:36:03
  And I think it leads to some great visuals at the end as
• 1:36:06
  well. And you know, it means the
• 1:36:08
  Doctor does get a hero moment because she is saving 14 worlds.
• 1:36:13
  So yeah, great idea. For my second choice, and I'm
• 1:36:19
  going to pick Bradley Walsh, I think, you know, going into the
• 1:36:25
  series, Bradley Walsh, he was the the Catherine Tate, wasn't
• 1:36:28
  he? He was like, Oh my God, you
• 1:36:31
  picked you. The man from the Chase is going
• 1:36:33
  to be the companion What year? We'll never learn, will we?
• 1:36:36
  We'll never learn, we'll never learn.
• 1:36:37
  But you know in it did bring so much humour is Graham and I
• 1:36:44
  really just love the way that, like I say turns that all off to
• 1:36:48
  portray a man who is absolutely blinded by his grief, you know,
• 1:36:51
  and totally set on what's going to happen.
• 1:36:55
  And he just plants his feet in the ground and doesn't shift,
• 1:36:58
  you know. But even then you know he has
• 1:37:01
  his moment. He is, you know is the better
• 1:37:04
  man and he goes back to being that that absolutely.
• 1:37:07
  It's not wisecracking. It's just it's a really sort of
• 1:37:09
  naturalistic humor. I was like, Oh my God, I only
• 1:37:11
  shot him in the foot. Don't tell the dog, don't tell
• 1:37:13
  the dog. It's like first.
• 1:37:14
  But what deal with him now, you know, it's it's he's just he's
• 1:37:18
  the the star player of this this story for me.
• 1:37:24
  I am going to say Tim Shaw and not just the performance by
• 1:37:27
  Samuel Oatley. I mean the the make up, the
• 1:37:29
  design, the costume, the way that the character shot in
• 1:37:33
  silhouettes and the effects they put on The Voice.
• 1:37:35
  I just think Tim Shaw is. It may not be the the greatest
• 1:37:40
  Doctor Who villain ever, but it's such a solid, big, bulky
• 1:37:45
  sci-fi thing with that just feels menacing and scary.
• 1:37:48
  And I'm just, yeah, I'm there for Tim Shaw.
• 1:37:51
  You know what though? I'm going to say something I'm
• 1:37:54
  probably going to live to regret because the last time I said
• 1:37:56
  something like this, it really backfired.
• 1:37:57
  And there was millions of examples.
• 1:37:59
  But there's there's not that many villains that come back, is
• 1:38:02
  there? There's not that many sort of,
• 1:38:04
  you know, there's monsters that come back.
• 1:38:05
  But you think who were the actual villains?
• 1:38:08
  Who were the villains? You know, like you've got Davos
• 1:38:10
  comes back, the Master comes back obviously.
• 1:38:12
  You know and I was really trying to think today when I was
• 1:38:14
  offering me walk me dog, you know maybe he's Cassandra comes
• 1:38:18
  back of the Jack, what's his BLOB from the star once comes
• 1:38:22
  back? Yeah, he comes back.
• 1:38:23
  But other than that, you know in the whole 60 year span of the
• 1:38:28
  show, how many actual villains come back?
• 1:38:30
  It's mainly Time Lords of that, yeah.
• 1:38:33
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:38:34
  Obvious, but fun sometimes. I am next going to say Chris
• 1:38:40
  Chipnall because I think he took a facetious comment from Rusty
• 1:38:45
  Davis about the planet Zog and nothing being interesting there
• 1:38:49
  and going, do you know what? I'm going to tell that story as
• 1:38:51
  my first season finale and but all of its apparent weaknesses
• 1:39:00
  there is something about just go with me here like on a Sunday,
• 1:39:04
  you know like a wet Sunday when you ain't got nothing on and you
• 1:39:08
  just want to stick on something and just go somewhere else.
• 1:39:10
  So I'll put on like a six part per we story, like colony in
• 1:39:14
  space or something like that, you know and just indulge myself
• 1:39:18
  on the exciting muddy quarry of colonies.
• 1:39:21
  This is that sort of story for me, you know set on an alien
• 1:39:24
  planet. There's lots of science and
• 1:39:26
  technobabble, you know, and and again, it is really defying
• 1:39:30
  expectations because we we have had so many season finales full
• 1:39:35
  of sort of big heart and a huge melodrama and sort of operatic
• 1:39:39
  ideas. So yeah, I'm going to say Bravo
• 1:39:44
  for trying something different, and to for telling the ZOC
• 1:39:49
  story. And Bravo for never, ever doing
• 1:39:53
  it again. And also, you know what?
• 1:39:56
  A lot of those finales have a lot more plot holes than this
• 1:39:59
  than this does. You know when it's.
• 1:40:01
  Very tight this. When you put them under the
• 1:40:03
  microscope. Actually, this is a very solid
• 1:40:06
  sci-fi story that sort of stands up in a way that a lot of the
• 1:40:10
  other finales perhaps don't. Gymnos holes are definitely
• 1:40:15
  tighter than rusty Davis's, yes. So, Fraser, go on, it's back to
• 1:40:24
  you. #3 I am. Casting with my fucking dad.
• 1:40:28
  You know what? Old you, you're grounded.
• 1:40:32
  Old you this before Yeah #3 that.
• 1:40:36
  I'm going to pick someone that we haven't mentioned yet and
• 1:40:38
  that is second I canola because you know it's it's it's it's
• 1:40:45
  part and parcel. You know, it's, you know we're
• 1:40:47
  talking about movie gold and how this, this was, you know Rusty
• 1:40:50
  or a Moffett. You know, Murray would be in
• 1:40:52
  there with the choir. And I think the whole this
• 1:40:54
  episode and the whole series second at all, has bought into
• 1:40:57
  what Chris Chairman was doing and saying you know strip it
• 1:40:59
  back, bring it down. You know, let's not make it, you
• 1:41:02
  know, as as big and you know important or whatever is that
• 1:41:09
  And he really brings that in with his score which is very
• 1:41:11
  ethereal and it's very incidental.
• 1:41:15
  It's not in your face. It's just there in the
• 1:41:17
  background getting on with it and but he knows when to you
• 1:41:22
  know turn on when you know Tim Shaw is appearing there's
• 1:41:25
  there's twangs of guitars and when you know the planets get
• 1:41:28
  popped back into place you know this big sort of sort of
• 1:41:32
  moments. So he's he's he's really an
• 1:41:35
  exceptional composer. I think he did some really
• 1:41:37
  excellent work in the series you did exceptional thrill but I
• 1:41:40
  think this series really really shines for him.
• 1:41:44
  So second I can all that is mine.
• 1:41:46
  Good choice. I think this is the last point
• 1:41:49
  where he's sort of just doing ambience and atmosphere and when
• 1:41:53
  he comes back in resolution, he's amping it up.
• 1:41:56
  And then in season 2, we've just started by 4, you know, it's a
• 1:41:59
  full blown sort of Hollywood score.
• 1:42:01
  Then it's. Because of the the the tone
• 1:42:04
  changes and it is it suddenly becomes more filmic, like.
• 1:42:07
  Resolution can quite easily be Doctor Who the movie with you
• 1:42:09
  know an extra 30 minutes chucked in there and Spyful is this big
• 1:42:13
  Hollywood pastiche and that next season is so action orientated
• 1:42:17
  that you're you shouldn't you need to the the score of season
• 1:42:20
  11 would not work on any other season around it.
• 1:42:23
  But it just it's the ambient thing that I could work so
• 1:42:26
  perfectly there. It really is unique this year,
• 1:42:28
  isn't it? Absolutely.
• 1:42:31
  What's your last one then? I'm going to go for toasting
• 1:42:33
  Cole because, oh. Fuck you, I was going to say,
• 1:42:36
  toasting. Cole, I was going to say Chris
• 1:42:38
  Chipnall's Balls and the balls are putting this on on
• 1:42:41
  television, on British television, on a Sunday night.
• 1:42:44
  But Chipnall's testicles aside, toasting comes in for a bit of a
• 1:42:51
  hard a bit of scope. If this was a fight through and
• 1:42:55
  tight episode, that would be the episode type of testicle to the
• 1:42:59
  side. Sorry, go on.
• 1:43:00
  But we were the tiredest shooter.
• 1:43:01
  He had the biggest nuts in Doctor Who history, didn't he?
• 1:43:05
  Yeah, I mean, we'll do a whole episode on Chimnell's balls one
• 1:43:08
  day. Chris.
• 1:43:12
  Chip balls. Chin balls.
• 1:43:14
  Chin balls, Chin balls. Welcome back to Chimnell's
• 1:43:21
  Balls. I hope he's not listening.
• 1:43:25
  I hope he is. We said nice things.
• 1:43:27
  Toast and Cole I think sometimes gets a bit of a hard time with
• 1:43:31
  fandom. And again, it's that sort of
• 1:43:33
  naturalistic performance and I think his relationship with
• 1:43:36
  Graham throughout this season is fantastic and indeed the next
• 1:43:39
  one. But I think there's something
• 1:43:41
  about it's obviously Graham's episode, but just their
• 1:43:44
  interplay relationship. He he knows the interaction
• 1:43:48
  between the two characters and the two actors works really
• 1:43:50
  well, and I think tosing gives Graham his time to Bradley
• 1:43:54
  Walsh's time to shine. But it's just there for those
• 1:43:57
  little sort of sweet interactions and little comedy
• 1:44:01
  moments, and I mean them as a pairing.
• 1:44:02
  I just think are fantastic. I for my last one then I'm going
• 1:44:08
  to say like this is a classic Doctor Who story.
• 1:44:12
  The the character's stuff is stripped back and the emotion is
• 1:44:16
  stripped back or it's subtle. If when it's there, it is a sort
• 1:44:20
  of hardish science fiction story.
• 1:44:23
  It's very A to B very linear. It's absolutely.
• 1:44:26
  So it baffles me that people don't like this really because
• 1:44:29
  people have watched 26 seasons of that and absolutely loved it.
• 1:44:35
  So yeah, just the the fact that this is such a love letter to
• 1:44:40
  classic Who and and he's doing all of those.
• 1:44:42
  It's even got a fucking quarry in it, for God's sakes.
• 1:44:45
  You know, what does it take to please you people?
• 1:44:47
  It's a good quarry as well it's. Gorgeous.
• 1:44:50
  That rolling sky going on. Marvellous.
• 1:44:53
  Wow, fellas. Well, we did.
• 1:44:55
  We did all right. My last things then, because
• 1:44:58
  I've never got 163, you know, by now, whenever I'm going to give
• 1:45:02
  another once bonus bonus, shout Doctor Mark Addy.
• 1:45:05
  Because like I say, I think what he's given to do with Partrac
• 1:45:09
  isn't, you know, a lot, but he does it exceptionally well.
• 1:45:14
  And I want to shout out the Ox as well because I think the Ox
• 1:45:16
  is a really sound concept. You know, this idea of just, you
• 1:45:20
  know, faith driven. Yeah, it's like the Sith, it's
• 1:45:23
  it's Jedi again. It's like Master and pupil, just
• 1:45:26
  the two of them and you know, Force powers and whatnot.
• 1:45:28
  I think, you know, if there's someone that could come back,
• 1:45:31
  it's probably, you know, the Ox. We could see more of them rather
• 1:45:34
  than Tim. Sure.
• 1:45:35
  Because I think, you know, again, first draft syndrome,
• 1:45:38
  they don't get fleshed out as much as they could do.
• 1:45:40
  So yeah, little few bonus shouts out there, you may know, into
• 1:45:42
  the podcast. I'm shocked because I had Luke
• 1:45:45
  Malloy giving us bonus things for Spy Fall and just anyone
• 1:45:49
  giving me bonus things for the battle of Rasgrave Kolos
• 1:45:51
  surprises me if I'm honest. But fellas, thank you very much
• 1:45:57
  for tackling this potentially difficult episode that was very
• 1:46:00
  smooth. You're very welcome.
• 1:46:04
  Where where are you and I heading next?
• 1:46:06
  We're going to be hell bent or heaven sent aren't.
• 1:46:09
  We Oh, yes, and I'll be the dissenting voice this time.
• 1:46:14
  Yeah, well, we're going to have a wonderful time because it's an
• 1:46:17
  episode. I've got some quite serious
• 1:46:18
  things to say about where I was in my life when, when those
• 1:46:21
  episodes. Buggery.
• 1:46:23
  Am I going to fight against that?
• 1:46:24
  So I'm going. To I'm going to be quite I'm
• 1:46:26
  going to cry, I'm going to cry, And if you say what bad thing
• 1:46:29
  about it, I'm going to block you on social media.
• 1:46:33
  Don't let him give you any shit about this.
• 1:46:35
  This one, Fraser, where we go? Next, don't let him tell you
• 1:46:39
  it's boring or don't have anything like that excuse.
• 1:46:43
  Me, I had to put up with two, no, nearly three hours of Luke
• 1:46:46
  Malloy saying that Spyful was shit.
• 1:46:49
  So now he's going to put up the same for me.
• 1:46:54
  Fraser. Sorry.
• 1:46:54
  Go. On Just Remember, it's a story
• 1:46:57
  of the Doctor and how you want to find someone in your life
• 1:47:03
  that's willing to punch a wall for billions of years.
• 1:47:07
  But yeah. I will keep that in mind.
• 1:47:10
  And yeah, I don't know where are we going next because there's
• 1:47:13
  there's quite a few on the list we.
• 1:47:14
  Can't. We're going to do Power of the
• 1:47:16
  Doctor again, you mean. Sorry, we've got to finish off
• 1:47:18
  Planet of the Daleks. You and me are doing the entire
• 1:47:21
  round of Oh yes, Spiders of Torchwood.
• 1:47:24
  Torchwood we've got some Red Dwarf to do.
• 1:47:26
  X-Files, X-Files, Face of Evil. I think that's on now as well.
• 1:47:31
  Have your fucking schedule, please, so we can get some of
• 1:47:35
  this done. I I thought I booked it alone,
• 1:47:37
  but it turns out oh. Dylan, I've got a load more yet
• 1:47:41
  to front pitch to you. Can I can I come and do a
• 1:47:43
  Torchwood with you? Oh yeah.
• 1:47:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which one would you like to do?
• 1:47:48
  Oh, I'll do any of them. But I mean, I don't always love
• 1:47:51
  a cyber woman. I thought you could have said
• 1:47:55
  the sex gas one. I was going to say, yeah,
• 1:47:57
  there's me thinking you're a sex gasman.
• 1:47:59
  Can you imagine? I'm absolutely built for
• 1:48:02
  tortured. All of those references about
• 1:48:04
  coming so hard, it's going to be gold.
• 1:48:07
  I'm saving, I'm saving the sex gas, one for an episode of Too
• 1:48:10
  Hot for TV that I'm hoping to get my sister back on.
• 1:48:16
  That's definitely too hot for TV.
• 1:48:18
  I'm missable as well. Fellas, you're just wonderful.
• 1:48:22
  Thank you so much for your time. It has been a gas.
• 1:48:25
  Thank. You for having us?