Latest / Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce / 90. Liberate yourself from codependency and manifest healthy post-divorce relationships
Transcript
- 0:49Speaker 1: Hi love, today we're talking about codependency and man.
- 0:54Speaker 1: Is this a hot topic?
- 0:55Speaker 1: Because did you know that there is data out there that suggests that up to 75% of men and potentially 90% of women possess some codependent traits, and there's a lot of confusion out there about why it matters and how it even occurs in the first place.
- 1:12Speaker 1: So if you're somebody who's curious about this word, codependency, and what's wrong with it in the first place, today's episode is for you.
- 1:20Speaker 1: Hi love, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave and build back your confidence.
- 1:36Speaker 1: I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer and divorcee.
- 1:42Speaker 1: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
- 1:47Speaker 1: In today's episode we're going to talk about what causes codependency and I promise you I'm going to have a different take why it's unhealthy in the first place and in there, how it contributed to your divorce and how it affects your dating life and sabotage is relationships long term, and why law of attraction as a manifestation tool is actually one of my favorite ways of treating codependency.
- 2:23Speaker 1: Let's dig in.
- 2:24Speaker 1: Let's start with what is codependency, because people get really confused between what we're supposed to work in teams, right.
- 2:35Speaker 1: We're hardwired for love and belonging.
- 2:38Speaker 1: We work best in community.
- 2:40Speaker 1: It takes a village to raise a child, right?
- 2:42Speaker 1: So people think about codependency like being dependent with someone and they're like, well, duh, that should be a good thing, right?
- 2:49Speaker 1: Why is it a problem?
- 2:50Speaker 1: So let's distinguish between what is codependent and what is interdependent, which is the word we actually want to aim for.
- 3:00Speaker 1: So codependency is a tendency to give up your own personal power in exchange for somebody else's power or influence.
- 3:09Speaker 1: It's a tendency to believe that you're not okay unless somebody else is approving of you or validating you or providing you with something you perceive you can't provide yourself for, right.
- 3:20Speaker 1: So it's a lot about this, like I can't for myself, but you can for me.
- 3:27Speaker 1: And that's where codependency becomes the problem, because, woven into what it is at its core is a belief that I can't and that I need you to do it for me.
- 3:42Speaker 1: And so, while it is so important in our lives and the way we live and love and parent and partner that we need to do things with people and we need to be good at asking for help and we need to be able to work in teams together.
- 3:57Speaker 1: That's not because we don't believe we can.
- 4:01Speaker 1: It's because we recognize that we don't have to and we can ask for help and we can have a more meaningful, connected, vulnerable experience in life right.
- 4:09Speaker 1: Relationships are like where so much of the magic happens there also are a lot of the pain happens but relationships where everybody kind of believes in everyone and there's an interdependence, a dependence with, not a dependence on Does that make sense?
- 4:23Speaker 1: Dependence with, not dependence on, and so codependency.
- 4:28Speaker 1: Why it's unhealthy is because you can love.
- 4:32Speaker 1: You can and you may not want to and you may not choose to, but believing that you can, whatever it is, is essential to your kind of sense of empowerment in life right.
- 4:45Speaker 1: And I think that as women, there's so much over the centuries, right Over the generations, that we've been kind of told we can't Like.
- 4:55Speaker 1: For instance, we couldn't even have credit cards until the 70s.
- 4:57Speaker 1: So you know whether it was you can't vote or you can't own a home or you can't run a business, or you know it's like women have been gaining ground for a lot of years around the things that we can do.
- 5:09Speaker 1: And you know maybe there are certain physical limitations.
- 5:14Speaker 1: You know we need to ask for help around certain strength based things, but there's always a way to um approach something, to accomplish something.
- 5:25Speaker 1: That that can come from your own genesis of idea, it can come from your own inspiration, it can come from your own intuitive you know receiving of hints here.
- 5:35Speaker 1: This is the path to get this thing done, right.
- 5:37Speaker 1: It's just this overall sense that I can't and I need you to do it for me.
- 5:40Speaker 1: That is what really the root of codependency is.
- 5:43Speaker 1: Now, there's a lot of ways that codependency leads to your intersex with having an anxious attachment style or, um, love addiction, right, because if I feel like I can't soothe myself, or I can't be alone and tolerate that, or, um, you know, I can't solve my own problems or make my own money, then I'm more likely to pick a partner that reinforces those beliefs.
- 6:11Speaker 1: Then I feel trapped and then I'm, you know, contorting myself into a human pretzel or whatever, in order to please you, to keep you satisfied, so that you don't abandon me, because I believe I can be abandoned, because I'm afraid I can't.
- 6:24Speaker 1: Right, you can't actually abandon adult women, because we're capable of caring for ourselves and providing for ourselves, but we get into this false idea that we can't and then we feel a sense of abandonment that, at our core, is because we're feeling so disempowered and so so much of healing codependency is about being able to rebuild a sense of empowerment, and that's why Law of Attraction is one of my favorite things.
- 6:49Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about what causes codependency, because, boy, I have a hot take on this one.
- 6:55Speaker 1: It has long since been believed that codependency comes out of kind of dysfunctional family dynamics.
- 7:03Speaker 1: And some of our favorite authors over the years, like one in particular, comes to mind Melody Beatty, who has written many books on codependency and the really famous daily reader called codependent no more.
- 7:15Speaker 1: Or there was a book and then a daily reader, codependent no more, and it is still one of my favorite tools in divorce recovery what she's written on codependency.
- 7:24Speaker 1: It's not the freshest take on codependency but it's useful and it's digestible.
- 7:30Speaker 1: And especially the daily reader you know where you read like a page a day and it kind of inspires a thought and that gives you your focus for the day.
- 7:37Speaker 1: I find that a very useful like small task tool you can use that killing helps frame your day and your healing process.
- 7:44Speaker 1: So Melody Beatty and many others have talked about family dynamics being at the root of codependency.
- 7:50Speaker 1: But when we look at the statistics and the data that says that upwards of between 75 and 90% of the population displays codependent traits, that tells me it can't just be dysfunctional family dynamics that lead to codependency, because it's unlikely that 90% of families are contributing to that much family dysfunction, that we are experiencing that much disempowerment and lack of belief in ourselves.
- 8:18Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of families out there that are dysfunctional but they still train up their children in a way that teaches them or at least provides the perspective that hey, you can, you can do so much.
- 8:30Speaker 1: You can kind of do anything you put your mind to.
- 8:32Speaker 1: I think, as parents, there are many of us that have worked hard, and you know, even my parents, that you've heard me talk about a lot that, about things that they could have done better, but I definitely think they taught me that I could do things and yet I became remarkably codependent, right.
- 8:49Speaker 1: But I think there are some additional key factors that really drive codependency, and I think it's the systematic disempowerment of a lot of the US culture.
- 8:59Speaker 1: What do I mean by that?
- 9:00Speaker 1: I mean where we used to know that we could grow our own food or we could dig our own fence posts or we could heal ourselves using natural medicines.
- 9:09Speaker 1: We now feel like we are dependent on the government and the doctors and the people to provide us with the things that we need, and we're no longer really kind of grounded in our own ability to heal disease and feed our families, and we're kind of in this machine of having to work so much just to live and survive.
- 9:32Speaker 1: I think, as women, we've been taught that we can't be beautiful unless we have certain clothes or have a certain body type or have certain makeup or certain skincare routines, and so we have disempowered ourselves by spending so much of our money on our appearance, and that has caused us to feel like we can't be loved or attractive unless we have all of this stuff.
- 9:51Speaker 1: And so I think that there's this larger cultural influence that tells us that we're marketers, or governments tell us that we have to do certain things.
- 10:03Speaker 1: You know, health anxiety is on the rise.
- 10:05Speaker 1: Why is health anxiety such a thing anymore?
- 10:08Speaker 1: Well, we're the sickest we've ever been, and doctors are the hardest to talk to, right, like, how hard is it to get an appointment?
- 10:15Speaker 1: Or to talk to a doctor outside of an appointment and we feel like we can't do it on our own because they're the experts and we don't know what we're talking about, and so I don't believe that any of this is true.
- 10:25Speaker 1: I believe that we can heal ourselves.
- 10:28Speaker 1: I believe that we can get back to a strong faith practice, and that that is so much of what heals codependency.
- 10:36Speaker 1: I believe that we can get regrounded in what is true about the divine feminine, that we are powerful AF and that we've forgotten that for a period of time.
- 10:46Speaker 1: And whether that's due to the patriarchy or whatever, it doesn't matter, right?
- 10:50Speaker 1: Let's say so.
- 10:50Speaker 1: Let's stay focused on the solution.
- 10:52Speaker 1: So why is law of attraction one of my favorite ways to address codependency?
- 10:57Speaker 1: It's certainly not my own, I mean, it's certainly not the only way to address codependency, because, you know, reducing codependency and increasing a sense of empowerment is a process.
- 11:10Speaker 1: I have found EMDR to be one of the most powerful tools.
- 11:13Speaker 1: Because what does EMDR do?
- 11:16Speaker 1: It gets at the internalized negative belief of I can't, or I'm not strong enough, or I'm not powerful enough, or I can't get what I want right, and it transmutes that negative belief into a positive belief and it reprocesses and desensitizes all the memories and experiences you've had in life that have led you to believe that you can't and you're not powerful enough.
- 11:35Speaker 1: So that's how EMDR fundamentally transmutes codependency.
- 11:39Speaker 1: I've also seen homeopathy do so much around creating healthy attachment.
- 11:45Speaker 1: There are a handful of remedies that are so powerful for allowing a person to suddenly realize that they're safe to set a boundary, for suddenly realizing that they're worthy of love and belonging, for suddenly feeling like they don't have to be small in order for someone else to be big, like I've watched remedies well-paired homeopathic remedies shift things like this for people.
- 12:10Speaker 1: But even when we do EMDR and even when we use powerful tools like EFT, tapping or homeopathy, we still have to retrain our brain and that's a process.
- 12:19Speaker 1: And one of the tools that I've been talking about lately to retrain our brain is a working understanding of the reticular activating system.
- 12:27Speaker 1: The reticular activating system is a part of our brain and it touches many parts of our brain because it is a system.
- 12:35Speaker 1: So it starts at the top of our spinal cord and it's where all of our senses, except our sense of smell, kind of dump into, give or take, the hypothalamic region of the brain, and the reticular activating system functions as a bridge between our subconscious mind and our conscious mind.
- 12:54Speaker 1: A really good example of how it works in the brain is think about driving.
- 12:58Speaker 1: Maybe you're doing it right now.
- 12:59Speaker 1: So think about driving and all of a sudden you see brake lights in front of you Before you really think about.
- 13:04Speaker 1: Oh, there's brake lights.
- 13:06Speaker 1: Should I stop or should I not?
- 13:08Speaker 1: Your foot automatically moves towards the brake pedal.
- 13:11Speaker 1: And that is your reticular activating system at work.
- 13:14Speaker 1: What it does is it filters through all the data that's coming at you all day long about every sense that you experience sight, smell, taste, touch, what you hear all of it right.
- 13:24Speaker 1: And it filters out what is necessary for you to respond and react to and what is not necessary for you to respond and react to.
- 13:30Speaker 1: So your reticular activating system is programmed to know that brake lights mean that foot moves towards the brake pedal.
- 13:37Speaker 1: What this has to do with law of attraction and codependency is that our reticular activating system is it's programmed based on repetition and it filters based on our beliefs.
- 13:48Speaker 1: It filters things in and out that it believes we need to respond to, based on our beliefs.
- 13:56Speaker 1: So, for instance, if I believe I'm not good enough and I'm not worthy and that's what I've rehearsed over the years, because that's what's been reinforced.
- 14:05Speaker 1: I'm definitely functioning codependently.
- 14:07Speaker 1: I don't believe I'm good enough unless you validate me.
- 14:10Speaker 1: I don't believe I'm good enough unless you partner with me to validate my worthiness as a person and a partner and a role right A wife, a parent, whatever.
- 14:20Speaker 1: My reticular activating system is going to filter out data that says that I am worthy, that I am valuable, whether or not you validate me, because our brain cannot handle processing every piece of data that comes at us all day long.
- 14:40Speaker 1: So when we do EMDR and use homeopathy, the reticular activating system becomes more flexible in what it's filtering in and out.
- 14:48Speaker 1: It starts to say, oh, you're changing the programming of what I filter or not.
- 14:53Speaker 1: So think about if you had gotten hit in the face by a basketball in grade school and then you walked into a gym later on in your life and somebody was playing basketball.
- 15:02Speaker 1: You would be more hyper vigilant about where that basketball was right, because you would experience the painful thing with a basketball, whereas if your girlfriend that's walking next to you had never had a negative experience with basketball, they probably wouldn't even notice right, like they wouldn't be paying much attention to where the basketball is and they wouldn't be subconsciously trying to keep track of keeping it from hitting them in the face.
- 15:22Speaker 1: That's the reticular activating system at work.
- 15:24Speaker 1: It tells you whether or not something in your environment is worth your attention.
- 15:30Speaker 1: So the law of attraction basically functions using the RAZ.
- 15:37Speaker 1: When we set intentions and we we say to ourselves okay, law of attraction states that I am a vibrational being and that, based on how I'm vibrating, I am attracting things to me that are a vibrational match.
- 15:52Speaker 1: So if my life is a shit sandwich right now, it means that I have been vibrating at shit sandwich status and that if I want my life to be, to reach a different status, that I have to start vibrating at a higher frequency.
- 16:07Speaker 1: I have to start intentionally moving upwards in the emotional scale towards higher levels of vibration.
- 16:15Speaker 1: So, for instance, depression, grief, hopelessness that's super low on the vibrational scale.
- 16:22Speaker 1: Anger is actually higher, feeling annoyed or frustrated is much higher, and then up from there, boredom is higher.
- 16:28Speaker 1: From their contentment is higher, and then you have things like joy, knowledge, empowerment is way up at the top, right.
- 16:37Speaker 1: So when we set the intention with our reticular activating system and saying I intend to heal from this divorce, I intend to heal codependency, I intend to have a secure relationship at some point in my life.
- 16:53Speaker 1: I intend to feel desirable, I intend to feel good about myself and like I can, and we start to set intentions that are opposite of codependency.
- 17:02Speaker 1: I intend to have close, loving relationships where I can be vulnerable and feel safe, right and stable relationships.
- 17:10Speaker 1: I intend to believe in myself.
- 17:12Speaker 1: I intend to be able to be alone without feeling anxious or panicky.
- 17:17Speaker 1: When we start to create those intentions, the reticular activating system says, oh, let me look for evidence in the environment that that's true.
- 17:27Speaker 1: And then you start to see the things in your environment that reinforce that you are worth it, that you're good enough that you can do these things, that you can figure out how to fix your own garbage disposal because your husband is no longer there anymore, right.
- 17:39Speaker 1: And the reticular activating system just starts serving you because that's what it's programmed to do.
- 17:44Speaker 1: And then, therefore, your vibration starts to go higher and you start attracting, from a law of attraction perspective, better and better and better things, and as you stay consistent with that, it builds on itself.
- 17:57Speaker 1: So you can kind of see how understanding.
- 18:00Speaker 1: Fundamentally, the law of attraction says that we are vibrational beings and everything that is currently happening in our life is a manifestation of our vibration.
- 18:11Speaker 1: What we're talking about here is getting intentional about our vibrational set point so that we can heal codependency, so that we can feel more empowered, so that we can live more empowered lives.
- 18:24Speaker 1: And the thing that's different about law of attraction is it does acknowledge it's taking full responsibility that my life is a series of consequences as a result of all the decisions, all the little bitty decisions I've made all along in life, of all the ways that my reticular activating system has been programmed.
- 18:44Speaker 1: And so if you want to heal codependency in the new year and you are kind of spotting the places where you have a hard time believing you can, where you have a hard time feeling good about yourself when somebody else is criticizing you or judging you or not accepting you or rejecting you, right, that's one of the greatest things I have had to work through post divorce is that I am good enough and I am lovable and I am worthy, even if I've experienced rejection.
- 19:16Speaker 1: That is empowerment over codependency.
- 19:19Speaker 1: The law of attraction fundamentally says I can and I will and I will vibrate higher and I will create amazing things from it because I can.
- 19:31Speaker 1: Law of attraction does not work if you aren't fundamentally recognizing that you can do magical things if you just adjust your vibration by tipping up, and once you kind of put all that together, that you're capable and that what you get is a direct result of what you've been giving vibrationally in the universe, that to me becomes the motivation to not hold on to resentment, to not hold on to unforgiveness, to not hold on to gossiping about what your ex is doing, to not be focused on what he's doing, because when you're focused on all of that, your vibration is automatically low, right.
- 21:00Speaker 1: So anger is better than helplessness.
- 21:04Speaker 1: These are concrete tools that I want you to be using in this new year.
- 21:09Speaker 1: I want you to think about using the word I intend in your journals this year, right, I want you to set that at the beginning of the year because I hope leaves room for disappointment, I will, leaves room for doubt.
- 21:22Speaker 1: I Intend is a nice soft middle word that your reticular activating system can say Okay, I intend.
- 21:31Speaker 1: Right, without introducing too much resistance.
- 21:33Speaker 1: Because, from a law of attraction standpoint, when you start using language or affirmations that your conscious mind is like screw you, that's just not true.
- 21:42Speaker 1: A bunch of resistance Bubbles up and then you drop lower on the vibrational scale again.
- 21:48Speaker 1: So from a law of attraction perspective, anytime you've got a lot of resistance going, you're not going to be intentionally Manifesting the things that you want.
- 21:55Speaker 1: You're going to be manifesting more shit sandwiches.
- 21:57Speaker 1: So I really want you to set in your journal top of year this year.
- 22:01Speaker 1: I intend as a prop, a prop, a prompt you use time after time in your journal and in your thinking.
- 22:10Speaker 1: Write it on your mirror.
- 22:11Speaker 1: I intend, and fill it in right and then allow your RAS to go to work for you and to start watching Codependency little by slow heal itself, one day at a time.
- 22:22Speaker 1: If you still find that you're relapsing a lot in codependency or that you're getting months into this type of practice and it still feels very hard, that's when you know you might need some additional tools, like consistent EFT tapping, a well-paired homeopathic remedy, emdr therapy or so many other tools.
- 22:40Speaker 1: These are my favorites.
- 22:41Speaker 1: They're not the only ones, they just happen to be the ones that I am lit up about.
- 22:45Speaker 1: All right, let's get implementing.
- 22:47Speaker 1: Right, pull out that journal.
- 22:49Speaker 1: I intend to heal codependency this year.
- 22:56Speaker 1: And now it's time for getting unstuck the part of the podcast where you write in with an area of your divorce recovery, that you're feeling stuck around, and I anonymously address it here on the pod.
- 23:07Speaker 1: So today Janet wrote in and she has allowed, unfortunately, her ex to kind of get in there in her head and Manipulate her a little bit more and make her think things about herself that are no longer true, and she has had to really kind of take a look at where she needs to reset her boundaries and refocus on herself.
- 23:28Speaker 1: And she says I'm scared of what the future holds, but I want to believe I have the strength to go at this on my own.
- 23:38Speaker 1: Now I need to muster up the guts to take my next steps.
- 23:43Speaker 1: So Janet's story is really relatable, right, especially right after the holidays, where you probably had a lot more contact with your ex to do with co-parenting or this or that, or family things, or finances, or whose gift is going to who, or and now we're headed into tax season, right, and that's like a strange little thought of trigger that happens where you have to interface with your ex about wrapping up the last bits of finances or this or that, and when you have these interactions and you wobble you could start to that thought starts to creep in that what if I, oh crap right, divorce, regret, divorce, regret.
- 24:24Speaker 1: If you Google it, it's a real thing.
- 24:25Speaker 1: What if I can't?
- 24:27Speaker 1: What if I made the wrong choice?
- 24:29Speaker 1: And that love is so normal?
- 24:33Speaker 1: And I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush and say no, every woman every time can do this on her own.
- 24:42Speaker 1: And every woman who feels like she wants to get a divorce because I don't think that's true I actually tend to be very pro marriage.
- 24:50Speaker 1: I think a lot of people think that getting divorced is a faster path to their solution, and it rarely is.
- 24:58Speaker 1: But when you've clarified that you're in a marriage with someone who is unwilling to collaborate on healing and is unwilling to put in the very hard work that it takes to heal from and rebuild a marriage, and when you've gotten clear that that person is not willing to go through that process, you know then, okay, it's time Now.
- 25:22Speaker 1: I think the idea of mustering up the courage to go at it alone is a really nice kind of segue from our conversation about the reticular activating system and the law of attraction.
- 25:34Speaker 1: Right, because that fundamental belief that you can is really what's gonna dictate whether or not you can, right?
- 25:43Speaker 1: So, janet Love, you have to get it clear in your head that you can before you take the leap, and if that means using some EFT tapping and EMDR session or three, if it means you studying the law of attraction.
- 26:01Speaker 1: But I think you gotta really dig deep and get to that higher self.
- 26:06Speaker 1: Inside of all of us, is inside of our psychology, is a higher self, a wise mind that is unaffected, completely love, untouched by how brutal your marriage and the subsequent divorces, and is your wise self.
- 26:20Speaker 1: And when you get in touch with that self, that self knows that you can.
- 26:26Speaker 1: And that self needs to be unblended from the other parts of you.
- 26:31Speaker 1: You know, on the one hand I think I can and on the one hand I'm afraid I can't.
- 26:35Speaker 1: When those things become blended together, the predominant vibration is what takes over, right, and so there has to be some very real tools that help keep you grounded in what's true.
- 26:47Speaker 1: And the truth for all of our psychology is that we all have a wise mind.
- 26:52Speaker 1: That when we say tapped into it, when we say grounded in the belief that I can and that where God guides, god provides.
- 26:59Speaker 1: Now the key is, janet, how can you keep reinforcing that on a daily basis until it becomes internalized and habitual thought for you, and that's where we have to use tools like writing these things on our mirror, doing EFT tapping to reinforce it.
- 27:16Speaker 1: Do you remember last was it last week, producer joy where I said, mess, oh, it was a few weeks ago where I said DM me and I'll make you a unique EFT tapping video.
- 27:25Speaker 1: Right, there are so many tools that help reinforce, but I don't want you to delude yourself that you could just say in a moment of courage, oh, I can, and then get out there half, swim halfway across the lake and realize that you're out of gas because you didn't do the daily work to reinforce that strength of knowingness and that faith in your higher power that you will be carried through this.
- 27:49Speaker 1: It does take consistent action, love, in order to move through this in a way that's less suffering.
- 27:55Speaker 1: Suffering optional right, struggle and going through hard things are essential parts of our growth and they're essential parts of our humanity.
- 28:02Speaker 1: So, love, you're not doing anything wrong by saying I gotta dig back in and tackle this and get my courage back up.
- 28:08Speaker 1: Struggle and hardship, it is the way right, but we don't have to suffer through it, and that just means do the things that maybe you don't wanna do, but that are gonna make it easier for you in the long run.
- 28:20Speaker 1: You know, I was training with Colleen today and she had me do Bulgarian split squats and if you've ever done Bulgarian split squats they suck and I had her fill me doing them because that's an example of me doing stuff that I do not like doing that is good for me.
- 28:35Speaker 1: You know how many times in a day we do stuff we don't like doing that's not good for us, and then we don't have the energy to do the stuff we don't like doing that is good for us.
- 28:44Speaker 1: So I think sometimes we avoid the healing tools because we'd rather put it out of sight, out of mind.
- 28:49Speaker 1: I just wanna tell myself I can, and then I don't wanna think about it and, depending on your human design, that could be a great way for you to manifest.
- 28:56Speaker 1: But many of us have to take consistent action in order to get the result.
- 28:59Speaker 1: So, janet, I believe in you.
- 29:02Speaker 1: Take some consistent action to build up that courage and use things like the law of attraction and positive messages and being in your body and doing this work like EFT, tapping in your body, not just cut off from the neck up in your mind.
- 29:18Speaker 1: We talked about that a few weeks ago, that when you're listening to the podcast or something like that, I'm doing it now.
- 29:24Speaker 1: Take it a few breaths, drop back into your body, because I had just started to shift too much into my mind right.
- 29:29Speaker 1: Drop it into your body and sit with this for a moment.
- 29:32Speaker 1: Janet, love you can.
- 29:34Speaker 1: There's no question you can.
- 29:36Speaker 1: If you choose to and you take the steps to believe in yourself, you will.
- 29:42Speaker 1: I have zero doubt and your wise mind knows that also.
- 29:45Speaker 1: I love you so much.
- 29:47Speaker 1: The Divorce Diary by Michael John.
- 29:53Speaker 1: Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by Michael John.
- 29:58Speaker 1: You can find more at mycoachjohncom.