Latest / Skin Anarchy / Ivan Galanin, founder of Adipeau

Transcript

Ivan Galanin, founder of Adipeau · Skin Anarchy

0:35
SPEAKER_03: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
0:38
SPEAKER_03: This is your host, Exxon.
0:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm super excited about today's guest because the this line is truly amazing.
0:44
SPEAKER_03: I've been using it now for about a month and it's made some really, really key differences that I'm loving.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Yvonne Galinan.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: He is the founder uh behind the line Adipo, spelled A-D-I-P-E-A-U, which I absolutely love.
1:00
SPEAKER_03: So welcome, Yvonne.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: I'm so happy you're here with us.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: So happy to be here.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm really impressed by the group of people you're interviewing, and you're doing such a benefit for the community.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: And I love the questions you ask.
1:15
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
1:16
SPEAKER_03: That really means the world to me.
1:17
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm trying.
1:18
SPEAKER_03: I hope I'm always like telling people I know my questions are cliche, but so excuse me ahead of time if they're a bit cliche.
1:24
SPEAKER_03: But um, I think it's the meat and potatoes, you know what I mean?
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's the it's the it's a cliche for a reason.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: These this is what people want to hear.
1:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: That's a good point.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, so let me get started um by just having you do a deep dive for us into your career and your, you know, just your background and skincare and you know, just all of the good stuff.
1:47
SPEAKER_03: I really want to know how you got started and um, you know, where all this inspiration came from.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's very unconventional in my case because I never wanted to do anything with beauty or or skincare.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Um I uh my background is I worked in a big pharma for many years, and then I became a biotech entrepreneur, and I started um my first company, which developed a treatment for rare genetic disease called Farber disease.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: And it's uh it's a devastating disease that affects an incredibly small number of children throughout the world, and we created a treatment like an enzyme replacement therapy for this for this disease.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: And I sold the company to a larger uh biotech company, and then I started my next biotech, which was a a company that identified specific combinations of drugs for colon cancer patients.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: And this company was was completely um unusual in that we would grow hundreds of thousands of fruit flies, and we we would build into these fruit flies a tumor that had the same genetic signature as an individual's tumor, and then we would test all the drugs that could possibly be given to the patient and identify therapies.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: So skin care was not something I was I was really thinking about, but then I stumbled upon a new principle in skin health, and really uh by healing my own chronic skin condition.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: And and then um what's that if you don't mind my asking?
3:35
SPEAKER_01: So I had a chronic dermatitis um that I treated with a very powerful prescription steroid.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, those are harsh.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: And over a period of three years, the steroid had caused my skin to be atrophied.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: So I had a very I had a very wispy skin and then just the meat underneath.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: And I found that my skin responded to a very simple natural um uh formula, and within about I'd say two and a half months, I completely cured this condition.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's amazing.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: And then so then I went and talked to because I worked with Mount Sinai School of Medicine.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: So I went and I spoke with a top dermatologist uh who I who I knew who was a colleague, and I told her the story, and she said, Yvonne, I I have no idea what what what could be working there.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: And uh instead of putting me off, it really intrigued me.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: And so I I dug further, and then that's how the real the journey started.
4:49
SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's uh it's truly discovery driven, then that's amazing.
4:53
SPEAKER_03: Like it's you know, I I think the best experimental model for each of us is our own, you know, our own self, obviously, right?
5:00
SPEAKER_03: So I I love that you can say that I you have a reason behind it that's you know seated in medicine.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
5:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I don't love that you had it, but I love that it's there, you know.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: The the results were so clearly beneficial that it couldn't be placebo.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: So that's really sparked my interest.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: And when you see when you see the skin respond so powerfully, it just it opened my eyes.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: And so here's the principle that we discovered.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: So the principle that we discovered was that deep regeneration, the deeper layers of the skin is is defective with aging.
5:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: So it's not that it doesn't happen, it just gets stuck, it happens more slowly.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: And so when you when you when you press on that pedal, when you when you push the gas with ingredients that promote regeneration, it works, but it doesn't work particularly well.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: And what we discovered by accident actually was that if you simultaneously press another pedal, the regeneration engine takes off.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: And what's so that's like and what's that other pedal?
6:23
SPEAKER_01: The other pedal is to tone the skin.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: Hmm, interesting.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: And this was something that no other company had actually experienced or experimented with because it doesn't make any sense.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, like logically, you would you wouldn't necessarily do that.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: And we did it by we did it by accident.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: We created a formula, we had a lab in Switzerland create a formula, then we started testing it, and we saw a result that we'd never seen before, and then we went back and we said, What's what's going on?
6:59
SPEAKER_01: And the ingredient, the ingredient that we put into the formula was black ginger.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: And black ginger is a very special ingredient because it promotes deep regeneration and at the same time it promotes toning.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
7:14
SPEAKER_03: And anti-inflammatory, too, right?
7:16
SPEAKER_03: Isn't it like ginger in general?
7:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it has an anti-inflammatory effect through a completely different um system, completely different cells, completely different mechanisms.
7:29
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
7:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad you said that because that was honestly one of my first questions was talking about the the, I guess, the molecular level science of this, you know, this stuff that you're really trying to, you know, do with your skincare line.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, there's things like fat metabolism and obviously signaling.
7:46
SPEAKER_03: And I would love to like go into that if you'd like to share that with us, because I don't think we hear enough of that in dermatology.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: No, and in fact, when I started talking with top dermatologists, they they didn't even know that the skin had its own specific supply of fat cells.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Skins, fat cells are uniquely skin cells, they derive from a completely different lineage of cells than the fat cells below the skin.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: In fact, in fact, the the fat cells in the skin derive from the same lineage as the fibroblast.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: So, really, the body, the the the skin is a specific microenvironment, is really is really the key point.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And in this microenvironment, you have groups of cells that collaborate together to maintain homeostasis.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: And so um the surface of the skin, the surface of the skin, there's actually very little changes that occur with aging to the surface of the skin.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: They say, you know, people believe that the skin thins with age.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: It actually doesn't.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: If anything, it thickens.
9:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:08
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: And so the real good stuff is what goes away.
9:12
SPEAKER_03: You're saying like collagen and like you know, just hyaluronic acid, like having the moisture in there and all the.
9:19
SPEAKER_03: So does that is that what you mean?
9:20
SPEAKER_03: That's the stuff that goes away.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: So those are those are the those are the building blocks.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Those are the building blocks that are made by fiberblasts.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: So the the the what we what we what what we think the way we think about this the skin is you don't want to give it fish, you want to teach it how to fish.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: You want to stick it, you want to get it to work the way it's supposed to work, and not micromanage it or manipulate it by adding uh building blocks.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: So so hyaluronic acid is a building block.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: You can add it to the skin, right?
9:57
SPEAKER_01: But but you're not unsticking the skin, you're not getting it to perform it its duties itself.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: And so you're you're in in you're maybe even creating a dependency.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, that's an interesting point.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: So that makes sense, yeah.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: So so what we talk a lot about is self-sufficient skin, unsticking the skin and getting it to really perform.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: And it, you know, it works.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: It you'll be surprised.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: You'll be surprised at the sort of things that are possible when the skin starts to do what it can.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: So it has like a regenerative ability then.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: That you're I mean, are you hinting at that that we have to let it come back to balance and you know allow for that regenerative ability to really kick in?
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: That's exact, that's exactly right.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: The skin has a massive regenerative capacity.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: It in it and it never goes away, it just slows down.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:58
SPEAKER_03: So what okay, so I want to I want you to really dive into the formulation of um your your line because I definitely used it and I wanted to see the results firsthand.
11:09
SPEAKER_03: I it really has done not um, you know, it's not like as porous, like I feel like it's just nicer, like overall, you know.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: So I really want you to go into the details, like um what were the key components other than black ginger that you thought were important for this homeostasis in the skin?
11:27
SPEAKER_01: So so there are really two systems that we're acting on, um, the skin's natural systems.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: One is toning, so keeping keeping the cells from becoming bloated.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's where the black ginger does its magic.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: And the other the other element is just feeding this this deep regenerative uh response.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: And the the this is actually something that is is easier to do.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: All of the oils, all of the oils that that um you put on your skin, every oil has fuel that feeds the skin's regenerative response.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: But here's the problem those those fuels not only not only start the regenerative response, they also cause the cells to bloat and fill up.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: So so initially, where you may be getting a regenerative impulse, it gets it gets it gets um undone by the filling effect.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: So once this once the cells in the skin start to take up these lipids, start to take up these fatty acids, they become bloated.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And so that's really, you know, it sounds simple, but but but it's really a fundamental shift of pressing the gas pedal on the regeneration, but then also pressing the clutch, if you will, to to keep the the cells from getting bloated.
13:07
SPEAKER_03: That's so interesting.
13:09
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
13:09
SPEAKER_03: So does that, you know, I have a random question then, because that that's really for me, it makes me think of like um rollers a lot.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know why.
13:18
SPEAKER_03: I think it because you were used the word bloating, and I think of like you know, congestion and like etomatic changes and stuff in your skin.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: So that's and what do you feel about that?
13:28
SPEAKER_03: Like roller devices and all these devices.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, do you think it's truly a molecular change we need to have rather than any kind of physical?
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: We love the physical devices, and in general, we have a very big view of the skin.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: So we feel our role is is is just one piece, one small piece in the in the puzzle.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: So there's you know, if you really look at the big pictures, there's chronological aging, which we've talked about, there's net sun exposure, there's diet, and there's exercise.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And if you go on our website and you take our quiz, we ask about all of those elements.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: And what we come back to you with is not buy our product, but here the here are the other things that you can do to benefit your skin.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that we always uh advise for people that have insufficient volume is rolling.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Because what rolling does is it increases blood flow.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: And with the blood, with the blood flow come growth factors, and the growth factors support the skin's natural regeneration.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: So we we're we're big proponents of rolling.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: We think it's that's where that's where people should focus more of their attention on and less on the surface.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: So the peels, the the retin, the redinoids, we think that that's sparking up the wrong tree.
15:04
SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
15:06
SPEAKER_03: I really like that.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: It's really about just what working with what we have, right?
15:11
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's the heart of it, instead of trying to alter it from the you know, top to bottom kind of approach, where it's like put something on top, and then you know, like you said, like the steroids and stuff, like we don't need to be altering the surface of our skin.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: We don't, and and I act a you don't know how many people I've spoken to that are in their late 20s or early 30s who think that they should use a retinoid on their skin.
15:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it's because every dermatologist is prescribing that.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: And you know, and you know why?
15:42
SPEAKER_01: You know why because because it's the only retinoids are the only class of uh drug or agent that has really been studied clinically in long-term clinical studies.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: They're the only one, it's the only one, yeah.
15:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can't find anything about anything else.
16:01
SPEAKER_03: I know it's crazy.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: It's a party of one, but but that's why that's why one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is we just kicked off our clinical study, and we're doing it with with two really talented plastic surgeons, uh, Dr.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Thomas Romo, who's the chief of facial plastic surgery at Lennox Hill Hospital in New York, and Dr.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Jacob Tower, a young Yale-trained uh plastic surgeon that works with Dr.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: Romo.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: And here's what's different about our study.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: First of all, we're using state-of-the-art equipment to measure the topology of this of the skin and the strength of the skin.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: So objective, we're gonna get objective results on what changes.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Second, we're gonna be studying for subjects for at least one year, so a minimum of one year.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then here's here's the other thing that's that I think is really important.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be including all skin tones.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: Yes, oh, you're gonna knock this out of the park.
17:11
SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Because because think about the drivers of of appearance.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: We talked about chronological aging, yeah.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: All skin, all skin tones have uh experience chronological aging, all skin tones are affected by nutrition, all skin tones are affected by exercise.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: The only thing that affects darker skin tones less is sun.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: But the other the other three drivers are common.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: And so, and so we're we're making really a concerted effort to include darker skin tones, and we're gonna show that these effects, these other drivers, can be improved in people with darker skin.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: I really, really like that.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: That's so solid, Yvonne.
17:59
SPEAKER_03: Seriously.
18:00
SPEAKER_03: I mean, congratulations, first of all, on you know, just having all of this start up.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: I mean, this must have taken so much time to plan for you.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: I mean, how much time did you put into the your research and you know, all the good stuff, like what just in years?
18:13
SPEAKER_03: Because this is so much good stuff.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: It's three and a half years now, and and um and but you know what?
18:22
SPEAKER_01: All good things take time, you know.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: It it um even the study.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: We we were getting ready to start the study in October, and we got IRB approval, and we were about to go, and then we found out about a better camera, better 3D camera from a manufacturer in Israel.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: And we we said, okay, hold the phone, let's test this out.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: So we got the camera, and we were amazed by the detail uh with which it allowed us to study the skin.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: And we thought, you know what, this is gonna make such a difference.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: So uh we postponed our study by by by three months so that we can incorporate this device.
19:06
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
19:06
SPEAKER_03: I love that it's a well-researched idea.
19:09
SPEAKER_03: And I I mean, this is amazing.
19:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, what one thing that pops to mind for me actually when you said um about this uh the technology of like really mapping the skin in a way, right?
19:19
SPEAKER_03: Like I think of those like studies back in the day in uh psychiatric health where they were saying that you have to combine in medicine imaging and you know, the actual science of just being a molecular, like cellular stuff, you know what I mean?
19:33
SPEAKER_03: Like the real research.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: So you can always have this like duality there where you're able to look at what you're doing and look for the results while you're doing it.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: And I that's what this reminds me of because there was this uh there was a doctor who did a lot of research on, like, for example, like ADHD medications, you know, anxiety medications, and he would do like actual neuroimaging and show the changes in his patients so that he could custom design, you know what I mean?
19:57
SPEAKER_03: What was for them?
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think and I think that I I think what's different about what we're doing is most studies they have um they use the scales, like they have they're all these scales that gauge appearance, the the Alexiotis scale, the this scale, the that scale, and all of it is subjective, and all of it involves having um dermatologists or plastic surgeons look at images, 2D images of people's faces and draw conclusions.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: And so what we what we decided is let's take that subjectivity out and let's let's measure the results in a way that's so objective and so quantifiable and so understandable to everyday people.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: So if you're if you're a regular person and you've never you you don't know what the Alexiades uh skin laxity scale is, yeah, what is it going to mean to you if you if we have a 0.25 improvement in that laxity scale?
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: But if if if you can look at the imaging and you say, like, oh okay, I see what happened, the volume shifted here.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: So so in this in fact, and this is this really reflects our dual approach for creating creating an iconic product.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: So one uh one axis is to convince the experts.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: If you don't convince the experts, you won't ever get um buy-in and acceptance uh by the community.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: But you also need to convince everyday people that what's happening with their skin is real and beneficial.
21:46
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, exactly.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: So, how do you like what is your approach to that?
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, what we've done is we've we've we've seeded the product with some of the most discriminating users in the world.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: So senior, senior fashion executives, models, stylists, uh makeup artists, people who have tried everything and know their faces inside out.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And when we started to get really great shout-outs from these people, like what's going on?
22:26
SPEAKER_01: I can't believe it.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: That was as important to us as getting the buy-in from the plastic surgeons.
22:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it is because they're the real, I mean, I think no, they there is a people thing, right?
22:40
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter the bat, like you have to really anyone who's had experience with skin or skin health in any way from any direction should be involved in that.
22:48
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so we had um, you know, we so a funny story about uh we're gonna be carried by by Neta Porte um in 2021.
23:02
SPEAKER_03: So congratulations, by the way, that's awesome.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, we're we're really we're really excited about that partnership.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: But we sent a blank bottle to a senior executive at Netta Porte.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: A blank bottle.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: But the person who sent it to her was a friend, someone that she knew uh for years, and this person had had a great uh sculpting result.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: Wow, okay.
23:29
SPEAKER_03: So you so she just tried it then, yeah?
23:32
SPEAKER_01: She just tried it and she sent a blank bottle, no packaging, no, and you've seen our packaging.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: It's it's utilitarian at best.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing, there's nothing fancy about it.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: And so this very senior executive, Neta Porte, who could use anything, started using our product.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: And uh she found that it really worked.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: And so that's how we that's how we got in there.
23:57
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
23:58
SPEAKER_03: That's like a it's almost like putting that blind, you know, the blind study thing, like the aspect of it's not a blind study, but I know what you mean.
24:05
SPEAKER_03: I love it, takes away that placebo effect of knowing what the brand is and what your brand journey is and all that.
24:11
SPEAKER_03: I really love that you did that.
24:13
SPEAKER_03: So she just what was her how what was her feedback for you?
24:15
SPEAKER_03: Did she fall in love with it then?
24:17
SPEAKER_01: She just asked for more.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: That's how we knew it was working.
24:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it does work.
24:23
SPEAKER_03: I can I can definitely say that.
24:25
SPEAKER_03: And I think you know, it's interesting when how many people does it take for some to get convinced that something is really breakthrough?
24:31
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
24:32
SPEAKER_03: So I'm actually from that perspective, glad that you reached out to so many different types of personalities in the skincare industry.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: Because it's like once you start hearing the makeup artists and the editors and everybody talk, you're like, okay, there's something really, you know, it's a good product.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and and really it's it's so the I have to say, Acta, the biggest challenge we have is that users have really weird expectations.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: So they either expect something to work right away, yeah, or not work at all.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: That's so true.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: So so it's really hard.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's really hard because nothing that works really well works overnight.
25:18
SPEAKER_03: That's very true.
25:19
SPEAKER_03: Everything takes time, especially with like anything health related, like you can't no such thing as in storage souls.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: And so and so people have been people have been trained to uh that the only thing that the only thing that's worth getting is that instant glow.
25:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: And so and so when when they don't get a glow, immediate glow from the product, they think, okay, it's not working.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: And so we have to say, no, no, no, just put in the reps, put in the work, put just use it, use it for a month, just use it for a month, and then you'll start to see.
26:02
SPEAKER_03: So this is really like a huge thing because I know that you use the word fitness when you're talking about your product, so and I love that because it's exactly what you just you know started telling us about.
26:12
SPEAKER_03: Because so can you go into that a little bit more, Yvonne?
26:15
SPEAKER_03: I I want everyone to understand like how important a good regimen is for any type of health.
26:21
SPEAKER_03: So can you elaborate on that aspect?
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's really just like building muscle or losing weight.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're not gonna get it from the first set of reps.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: Just that's not the way the body works.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: The body needs to be triggered repetitively.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: And and so the same thing, the same thing with our product.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: It's okay, you use it for a couple of days, you might feel the skin is a little bit smoother, but but that's just the beginning of the journey, right?
26:57
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, so you you you exercise, you run, you you feel the endorphins, right?
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Right, that's the equivalent of your skin feeling smooth.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: That's the beginning of the journey.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: The endorphins tell telling you you're doing something good, but you haven't arrived yet.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: It's only when you start to feel when the running starts to happen easily, when you're starting to really um look forward to doing the weight work or doing the stretching or doing the yoga, and then you start to realize look, I'm stronger.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: I a month ago I couldn't do this move, now I can.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: But that's not something that's not something you get the first time.
27:44
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
27:45
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, you know, you're right, you do have to train your body, whatever organ you're dealing with, or you know, whatever cell you're dealing with.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: I mean, cellularly, it makes sense.
27:54
SPEAKER_03: When you give cells a habit, they know that this is normal function, you know what I mean?
27:58
SPEAKER_03: And then when something goes awry, that's when you get cancers and stuff.
28:02
SPEAKER_03: But if you're training them constantly and reinforcing like wellness principles, I think that goes a longer way than we even understand as medical scientists today.
28:11
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know what I mean?
28:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm waiting for those studies to come out in the future, like, but I completely hear what you're saying.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: No, it's uh absolutely right.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: And this is why we this is why we say on our website, it's not aging, it's fitness.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: So think about building muscle as you get older, right?
28:30
SPEAKER_01: You don't lose the ability to build muscle, it just takes more work.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Right you don't lose the ability to build new brain connections, it just takes a little bit more work.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: It just takes a little bit more work, and the same thing with your skin.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: This idea that that that aging is is an inevitable consequence of chronology, I think is is uh is just as misplaced with the skin as it is with with muscle or bone development or brain or brain development.
29:04
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
29:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes, 100% agree with you on that.
29:07
SPEAKER_03: I hate that and anti-aging, like people don't understand.
29:11
SPEAKER_03: You know, I was talking to somebody else about this whole just coming up with a new image for the consumers to understand when it comes to skin and what happens with time.
29:20
SPEAKER_03: And I think words like anti-inflammatory or balancing are they are just more they're more accurate, you know what I mean?
29:27
SPEAKER_03: And and because you know, aging is happening no matter what, you know, we're all aging, but it's like you know, the the thing of you know, graceful aging versus not, right?
29:36
SPEAKER_03: What is that really uh what's the principles behind that?
29:39
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what your line for me is representing is that you have this intense scientific, you know, backing of gracefully, you know, letting your skin go through what it goes through and then helping it along.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, well, we we really like the the ecosystem um analogy for the skin.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: And if you if you think about an aquarium and you think about your skin as an aquarium and it's got plants and it's got fish, and it's got um uh the quality of the water has a certain pH, small changes in one element trickle down.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: And so the way to think about it is all right, I'm going to nudge this element back into health, I'm gonna nudge this element back into health, I'm gonna nudge this element back into health, and not just using creams, but using rollers, as we've already discussed, um, really thinking about what impact exercise has on your skin.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: And exercise has both both positive and negative impacts on your skin.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: High intensity exercise, it slows it slows down regeneration as much as a sunburn.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: Really?
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, absolutely.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: That's why.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: Have you heard of gym face?
30:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh-uh.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: So, gym face, I think it's a British term, but it it refers to when you start to get grooves sort of below the eye and to the side of the nose.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: And you see this with really big celebrities.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and uh I don't want to name any names, but but um you see this with people who really exercise a lot.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: They develop it starts out as like a slight indentation and then it develops into a groove, and then the groove gets longer, and that's the effect of exercise compounding UV exposure and depleting uh the structure of the skin around the eyes.
31:42
SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's amazing.
31:44
SPEAKER_03: I had no idea.
31:45
SPEAKER_03: That's like stress, then you're saying you're inducing high levels of stress molecularly than with exercise.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: You're you're you right.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: You're when when you are exercising, your body devotes all of its resources to exercise and and then recovery.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: And so, what are you not doing during that period?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: You're not regenerating, right?
32:07
SPEAKER_01: You're you're recovering from the exercise.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: And so, and so we you know, we we talk about the gym groove, and and this is gonna be a big educational effort because most people don't even understand what that is.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: And we've actually I've actually seen people on your on your podcast that have very pronounced gym grooves, and they've been in skincare for many years.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:32
SPEAKER_03: I because I don't think anyone knows about this.
32:34
SPEAKER_03: No, no, I honestly like this is a brand new thing, and I love that you're talking about this because I don't think anyone knows that this is happening.
32:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean, fitness, I mean I'm not gonna lie, I'm not a huge fitness junkie.
32:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I don't know, like I know my brother is, and I I'm just thinking about his face, you know what I mean?
32:50
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, wait, yeah, it makes sense what you're saying because I've seen it, and I had no idea that exercise was doing this.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: So, this is actually something I want to ask you more about.
32:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, what about blood flow then and exercise and how much is good for skin versus not?
33:05
SPEAKER_03: Do you know?
33:06
SPEAKER_03: Have you come across that in your research at all?
33:08
SPEAKER_03: Like, um, what is the best way to promote it without over-stimulating them?
33:14
SPEAKER_01: So, what what we what we believe, and we're gonna see more, we're actually gonna collect data during the clinical study because we're collecting information on people's exercise regimens and their sun exposure and their diets.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: But our hypothesis is that the best thing is moderation.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: So a moderate exercise regimen is the best because it keeps your it keeps your skin cells lean without causing without without causing depletion.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: And so when we when people do our survey and they come back and we see that they have a very intense uh exercise regimen, here's what we recommend.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: We recommend the roller to promote regeneration, and we also recommend taking an anti-inflammatory supplement either before exercise or after exercise.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow, okay to help with the recovery.
34:14
SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: Because we we think that that's going to shorten the window in which the skin is not regenerating.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: It's you still have a window, but it'll be much shorter.
34:27
SPEAKER_03: Now, is there a such thing um as like anti-inflammatories that are more targeted to skin health versus other or I mean, I know it's a very questions I don't think there is, but I I want to know because I I think there's a lot of like in terms of um ingestibles, a lot of stuff on the market, no one really knows how it works.
34:45
SPEAKER_03: So can you take us on that a little bit with anti-inflammatory, like or taking it as an ingestible?
34:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's that's something I don't know very much about.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: I really don't.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: I think that I think that one of the things that we recommend is um again, when people fill out our survey, uh one of the things we recommend is a supplement called Astaxanthin.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: And astaxanthin is that red color in seafood, in crab and shrimp, and lobster.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: And so what why do we recommend astaxanthin?
35:28
SPEAKER_01: We recommend Astaxanthin for two reasons.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: One is it it boosts your internal protection against UV exposure.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: So it it it doesn't act like melanin, which is to say it doesn't block the the UV exposure, but it helps your skin put out the fire faster.
35:50
SPEAKER_03: Oh wow, that's interesting.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: So so it's really taking a once-a-day Astaxanthin is really like increasing your skin tone by one grade on Fitz Practice.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: At least at least one grade, yeah.
36:08
SPEAKER_03: I had no idea.
36:10
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm see, this is all new.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: I like you're teaching me so many things about I had no idea about any of this stuff.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: That's that's so cool.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: But but actually, you know, you know why that is because I the this is all stuff that I learned the last three and a half years because this was a new field for me.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean I knew the skin from a different perspective because I had studied fibrosis and sort of that pathological scarring.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, this was this this was something um that I worked on in research at at Sanafi, but I didn't know all of the other elements of the skin that contributed to appearance.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: So I've had to really learn everything from scratch.
36:57
SPEAKER_03: Right.
36:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it shows because you really have a wonderful understanding um of skin health.
37:03
SPEAKER_03: This has been very, very eye-opening for me.
37:05
SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, I honestly, everyone listening out there, like wholeheartedly, even you know, prior to everything we've talked about, I loved, I fell in love with your product, honestly.
37:15
SPEAKER_03: I I used it and I used it exactly how you guys describe, you know, you air you focus on one area and I did that, and it's like I started to see a difference.
37:24
SPEAKER_03: And you know, for me, that's that's huge, that it's a sustainable difference.
37:29
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, anyone listening, this is really good, a really great product.
37:33
SPEAKER_03: I mean, as I'm sure you can tell, but after our conversation, but yeah, um, I want to really congratulate you on this.
37:39
SPEAKER_03: This is really, really well done.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: Thank thank you very much.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and the the you know, one one people one one question people ask is well, what what else are you going to do?
37:51
SPEAKER_01: What are you going to do as as follow-on products?
37:56
SPEAKER_01: And really, we're really excited about about the potential to develop new products that reflect our unique understanding of the skin in the face and then the rest of the body, and then also um, as we've discussed, um systemically, like what can we what can we consume that will um will improve also the the quality of the skin?
38:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I I actually want to ask you something that I'm very passionate about this is the research component, right?
38:32
SPEAKER_03: And I love that you're starting this clinical trial.
38:34
SPEAKER_03: And um, this is a really great, like it's a great direction to take.
38:38
SPEAKER_03: So one of my questions is how do we how do you think we should promote that in the skincare industry?
38:43
SPEAKER_03: Like this idea of you know, put the money in the research, you know what I mean?
38:48
SPEAKER_03: Like put that put that money into medical research and to back a product rather than like all the marketing hype and all the all the BS, you know what I mean?
38:56
SPEAKER_03: How do you how do you think we should combat that?
38:59
SPEAKER_03: Because I think companies should start a fund or something.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, this is really interesting.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: I you know, this is my background.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: My background is in biotech and pharma.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: And so this is this is second nature to me.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: It's like, of course, you want to study how the product works.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: How else do you feel good about telling people to use it?
39:19
SPEAKER_01: But it's something, it's a resource that's incredibly expensive.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: And so what we've done is we've instead of hiring an agency to do this for us, we've we've employed top physicians and we've purchased all the equipment ourselves.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's awesome.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: And so that puts a lot more power in your hands, yeah.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: And so, and and so actually, one thing that we're doing is we're reaching out to other brands, um, especially brands that are um that uh maybe the the founders have um um less of a you know fewer resources.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Um and we're saying, you know what, we love your brand, we love what you do, let's collaborate so that we can generate some research for you.
40:12
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, this is amazing! Yeah, please continue.
40:16
SPEAKER_03: No, it's so cool.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's again something that people don't think about, but but but think about it from a think about it from a user's perspective, right?
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: So if you're company A, you only study your products, you don't never study company B's products or company C's products, but your users use a product from A, B, and C.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: So what we're doing, and we're reaching out to people who you know really, you know can benefit from, you know, they don't have uh millions of dollars to put into this research.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: And so we're saying, you know what, we love your ethos, we love you as people, we love your product, it's not competitive with ours.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: So let's let's look collaborate, let's discover, let's let's see how our products uh work together.
41:07
SPEAKER_03: And so like the synergistic effective, yeah, I love that.
41:11
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we've just we've just started to do that, and we're getting a good response, and and so uh we're this is something we're really looking forward to doing.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: And I think that for um for for our users, it'll be really helpful because they'll get a sense, okay, I don't maybe I don't need this product, but I do need that product.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: And so, and so um, yeah, another another crazy, crazy thing that we're doing.
41:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh no, it's the most logical thing I think I've seen in the industry.
41:47
SPEAKER_03: This is amazing.
41:48
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can't tell you how excited this it is exciting this is because I have always wondered why is there not more like this scientific mindset, right?
41:57
SPEAKER_03: I mean, which is exactly what you're employing here on every in every facet is the you know, the scientific discovery methodology behind all of it.
42:05
SPEAKER_03: Like, let's collaborate, let's work together and figure out how to really improve skin health.
42:09
SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is it's extraordinary what you're doing.
42:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, I'm a big fan of other companies' products.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, biologique recherches for one, I think you know, they've created really an iconic, iconic product.
42:26
SPEAKER_03: And serum the P the P450 lotion or what yeah, it's just so different, you know.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: You put it on and it's you feel its activity right away.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: So, and there are other iconoclasts like the iconoclasts that develop that product that also need, you know, they they need their products to be to be evaluated and to be tested.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: And and so that's where I think we can also help, you know.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
42:57
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're providing a giant research, which is you know, an avenue towards medical research.
43:02
SPEAKER_03: I think that's such a brilliant move.
43:05
SPEAKER_03: I I and you know, honestly, I used to think like, is it because brands just don't have that availability to them?
43:11
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
43:12
SPEAKER_03: To be able to go and and ask a lab to do the real, you know, the real science, like the the you know, the nitty-gritty stuff is what I'm trying to say.
43:20
SPEAKER_03: Because yeah, I think formulations, everybody tests like certain things, like on a chemistry level, but when you apply the medicine and the biology, I mean it's a whole different kind of approach.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: And really to answer the questions on does this does this product make you look better?
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: Not you know, not fine lines, but does it make you look better?
43:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: And there are and there are very well um uh well established questionnaires that were developed.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm spacing on the um, it's a famous cancer hospital in in New York City.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm spacing.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: On it.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Memorial Sloan Cattering.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: So they so they they've created these amazing questionnaires that evaluate how you feel about your appearance.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: And this is another uh tool that we're using in the study because that's what fundamentally matters to people.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, really who cares about some fine lines?
44:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
44:22
SPEAKER_03: No, I agree.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: This is amazing.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: Like, this is gonna open up so many doors for the medical research aspect of everything.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: I I am so excited about that.
44:30
SPEAKER_03: I hope that you know the journals like dermatology journals like blow up with more information because this is you know, I keep wondering, other than you, I haven't talked to a single founder that is so dedicated to the scientific aspect.
44:44
SPEAKER_03: And honestly, I mean that because it's like you know, it's one thing to say, like, okay, this works, but then another thing to say I want to add on to that information that's available.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what the skincare industry is actually missing is that information, you know, the the real science, the real research, the real numbers.
45:00
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I I can't wait to see, you know, everything you do.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: And and we we we we published our our principle.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: So this idea of regeneration and toning, we published it in Europe's leading plastic surgery journal.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: We said, Oh wow, this is what explains aging.
45:19
SPEAKER_01: This is an important uh explanation for what we're seeing and what we're calling aging.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: And they published this review with no revisions.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: And so um and so that's amazing.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and what's what's even more amazing is is I'm the I'm the lead author and I have no credibility in the field.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: But I I'm not a professor of of wound surgery in Dresden.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: And um, and so but but but we laid it all out.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: It our paper has something like a hundred references when we put all the pieces together and we say, look, this is an explanation for aging that we haven't really um we haven't really looked at from this angle.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: And so we we put our hypothesis out there.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: We didn't sort of hide it behind some mysterious formula, some mysterious ingredient or complex.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: And so that knowledge is available to to everyone now.
46:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh wow, I have to go check that out actually.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: I want wonder if your team can link me that article because that's amazing.
46:26
SPEAKER_03: I had no idea that you guys were already publishing.
46:29
SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'll I'll send it to I'll send you the I'll send you the paper.
46:35
SPEAKER_03: Yes, please.
46:36
SPEAKER_03: I honestly, Ivon, I I don't even know what to ask because you've I feel like you've done so much forward thinking on this that like you're almost telling me, you know, telling all of us like what the next step is in skin health.
46:47
SPEAKER_03: This is so exciting.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I'm really grateful to you for for this platform.
46:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh, it is my honor.
46:55
SPEAKER_03: Genuinely I mean that.
46:57
SPEAKER_03: This is this is exactly why I wanted to start this podcast, is for you know, minds like such such as yourself that are really bringing discovery and innovation into this industry because it's not about you know, it's not about the the vanity of anything, it's about real health.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: And you know, that's all that matters really when it comes to our the human body is understanding it.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: And and your enthusiasm and your curiosity is really it it it fosters such a great conversation.
47:28
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
47:29
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
47:29
SPEAKER_03: I'm just a very listening out there.
47:31
SPEAKER_03: Please go and definitely check out um Adipo.
47:34
SPEAKER_03: It's it's in a beautiful line.
47:35
SPEAKER_03: You've heard everything here and you know, all the amazing science.
47:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean, just for that sake, I mean, go check it out and see how skincare, in my opinion, should be done um from the medicine standpoint.
47:46
SPEAKER_03: Um I'm so grateful to Yvonne's whole team for you know giving us this opportunity.
47:51
SPEAKER_03: I if you guys have any comments or questions for them, leave them on the cut, you know, comment section of the cover art and I will definitely pass them along.
47:58
SPEAKER_03: Um, thank you so much for listening.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: One second, let me just hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
48:12
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48:16
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48:34
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SPEAKER_03: So if you're a reader and you love medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
48:54
SPEAKER_03: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast, and it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
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SPEAKER_03: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
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SPEAKER_03: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
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SPEAKER_03: Thank you.