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Supporting Women in the Supply Chain Industry · Speaking of Supply Chain

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You're listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a Mebach podcast. This is a
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show for logistics professionals looking to learn more about the latest innovations in supply chain.
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Each episode will feature a conversation on topics such as mitigating supply chain disruption
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and reducing risk, current automation trends, sustainability initiatives, and more. Let's
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dive right in. Hello, and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where
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we explore trends, current events, and innovations impacting the supply chain industries.
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I'm your host, Ellen Wood. Today we're excited to be joined by Emily
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Lally Birthday, a manager at me About Consulting. He'll be talking with us
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about how companies can support women in our industry. Welcome to Speaking of Supply
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Chain. Emily, thank you very much for the invitation. I'm excited to
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be here. I'm really excited about our topic today, which is supporting women
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in the supply chain industry or just in business this in general, I mean,
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the supply chain industry does have a historically male population, but supporting women
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in the workplace can get complicated really really quickly, and it can have a
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polarizing effect. So I want to make sure that we really approach this with
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mature mindset. But there are some ways that companies can really support the women
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in their organization, and I want to talk about why it's so important first.
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Now, you and I were discussing the lean In Report on Women in
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the Workplace. So this was a report that was done by leanin dot org
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and the McKenzie Institute, and they surveyed hundreds of companies, thousands of women
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talking about their experience working in the workplace. And one of the pieces of
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information that we found was that women in leadership is a particularly soft area.
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That's one of the hardest places for women to get into. So once you
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get out of that entry level role and try and get into those leadership roles,
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that's where women start to experience more of the difficulty in the workplace again,
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especially in supply chain. What are some ways that we can get women
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into those leadership roles And it's a good topic and just I was also reading
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some stetstick about it. I think there's a twenty nineteen Gardner report that's specifically
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women in supply chain and across all it's thirty nine percent when you get to
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a leadership, executive leadership. It's only eleventh person. So what happened between
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the first thirty nine percent to the eleven I'm engineer, I love the numbers,
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and what happened at this point? Yeah, well, why are women,
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you know, stepping out of leadership roles? It's not an easy question.
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I think if it was an easy fix, we would have fixed it
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the years ago. And I think it's this multiple aspect to it. I
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unfortunately think that there's still a lot of unconscious bias, nothing malicious, never
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that I've faced, but there's still a lot of unconscious a behavior either based
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on comments reaction during hiring from Napolis. Also another one that we could see
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some example of this that I've seen from the polism This woman is going on
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mattern to life, and I had an executive person coming to me and saying,
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Oh, this person is, but you're never going to come back to
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work, like you know, if she's going to become a mom. Well
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might be true for some women, but I know a lot personally, a
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lot of women who are who desire having a leadership role and who desire to
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have a career and a family in parallel. And so we need to be
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careful with those bias because we assume and then that woman kind of think that
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this is how she needs to behave So those women which we assume but we
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never really asked them, and then they can feel that this is the only
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path forward when it is not. There's a ton of option there, there's
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a ton of role and possibility that or feasible. And so I think that
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we need to have an honest conversation and we need to also make sure that
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like those own conscious bias doesn't stop women from going up and up the ladders
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as they continue their career. Yeah, you make a good point because we
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were talking earlier about you know, when it comes to families, and families
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have moms, they have dads, and both moms and dads work. So
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why is it okay to assume that a woman is going to abandon her career
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because she has a family, while the men can assume that that's never going
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to be an issue that affects his workplace productivity or his attendance devotion to the
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company. Yeah, that's never a question when it comes to men in leadership
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roles, but it's always a question when it comes to women. And I
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know that we've experienced that there's been a dramatic shift, especially in the past
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few years, where more men are blocking out on their calendars when they have
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their kids' soccer game, or they need to pick up their kids from school,
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or there's a field trip that they want to chaperone, all of these
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types of things where the men are being more proactive about doing these things with
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their families, and we are a very family friendly organization. But then the
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question still comes up when when a woman you know is going to become a
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mother of are you coming back? Why wouldn't I come back. You can
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go to a soccer game and it's not you know, a question of whether
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or not you're coming back. You know this is yes, it's different.
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Having a child is different than going to a soccer game, but having a
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family is a lifetime commitment, and so is having a career if you want
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it to be. No. Folly agreed, and I did really appreciate because
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in the past it used to be like, oh, I have an appointment
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or I have a conflict. And I do appreciate when men, and even
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more at higher position come and say I need to pick up my kids,
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or my kids is sick. I need to stay home. I think that
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when you verbalize and you use the will reason behind it and you're not maybe
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hid shame, but not hiding it or like kind of dan, it showed
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everybody else that it's a key to take the time for your family. It
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is a key to put some time, you carry on some time aside,
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or have the flexibility to prioritize your family at this moment and you can always
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be back at work later or they that the company offered this flexibility. And
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when you have those role models, I think that's what creates a huge difference.
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Yeah, it does make a huge difference to show, even for just
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younger or lower positions, to show that, hey, our leaders care about
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this. This is important to them, so it can be important to me
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too well. And it's it's not just about children in the workplace. You
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know, women are frequently behind men in terms of the way that they are
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perceived in the workplace, regardless of their familial status. So one of the
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things that I was reading in this study from Lenan dot Org was that,
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as you were saying, the microaggressions are causing women who are already in leadership
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roles to leave some of those leadership roles. And one of the quotes from
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it is, you know, implications or other colleagues assuming that a woman in
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a particular role is not qualified for that role, or that she is more
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junior than she actually is in the company, and referring to her or talking
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to her in ways that are a little bit demeaning, things like, you
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know, could you water the plants in the office, could you take care
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of, you know, making sure that the coffee is stocked up, or
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could you clean out the refrigerator there's something that smells in there. All of
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these things that they just assume is you know, what a woman should be
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doing in general, and therefore it should translate over to the work environment as
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well. Whereas that lunch is probably some gentleman's lunch, or it might be
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that, you know, the plants are taken care of by a service or
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whatever, but that's not necessarily a woman's role in her in her job duties.
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Yes, I fully agreed. And it's also where you can see that
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you go above and beyond what is in your task description. And that's what
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one thing we were talking earlier is that women typically are going to do more
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than what is just un their job description, and you were mentioning from the
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pot that some of those jobs may not even be recognized in your end of
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year performance with you because who's going to give you bonus based on how much
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you water the plants? Like, it's not something that has a direct impact
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on the business, which I fully agreed, like we need to make sure
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it's efficient, but creating an environment of inclusion, creating an environment to make
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sure that everybody feels comfortable, Creating an environment where a lot of my role
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is to talk to people and make them feel that they can trust me,
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that they can come to me of there's something. And that takes a lot
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of time to build those relationships. And it's not a direct a link to
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profitability or it's not a direct link to revenue, like I'm not hitting one
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of those targets. Yeah, that's not buillable hours, It is not,
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but it is important because how do we retain people, How do we make
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sure that they feel comfortable, How do we make sure that they feel that
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they have somebody who has their back. And this is a lot of efforts,
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and this is a lot of time to generate those relationships and it's above
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and beyond what we would typically see in job description, for example, and
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the women tend to be those mother hands. Just in general, we're a
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little bit more acclimated to that role. But it tends to happen if and
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especially if the men push it on to women. But we tend to just
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do those things. I know I do I water the plants in the office.
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But I call myself a memo bear. I put all the women in
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this company like that's that's my role. I'm a mema bear. And so
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none of those things are on our annual reviews in terms of is this one
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of the skills that I've developed this year, or is this something that that
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is going to improve, you know, getting employees into the office to work
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instead of working remotely. How are we going to build that culture? You
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know, that's it's a very soft skill that we're doing that's not necessarily on
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the path to a management promotion. And so women have to be very careful
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when they're taking on these things that are maybe even not even asked, but
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they just see that a need is there and they decide to do it.
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Is this going to help your career? Are you going to advocate for the
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fact that you've been doing this, are you going to bring this up to
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your own boss and say, hey, this is something that I have taken
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on and I feel that this needs to be recognized. There's there's a lot
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that women can do in order to speak up for themselves and really promote their
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own what they do and what they bring to their job and their company and
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make sure that that it's recognized. And I think that was that was another
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thing we were talking about is with you being the mama bear and protecting women,
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but how do we also support them and teach them how to do these
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things? Yeah, and mentorship in role model and mentorship. I think it's
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a huge topic. It's it's a broad topic and how do you develop this?
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And I think there's multiple ways of doing it. I know for example,
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for one example for me is first time I went to a trade JOm,
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I had somebody coming to me and seeing can I talk to one of
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your project manager or engineers? And I was like, oh, I'm an
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engineer. And it's first reply was like, you're week too pretty to be
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an engineer laughing, no manegious intent, but just kind of laughing. Yeah,
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it's off the cuff. Yeah, And I was like, WHOA,
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this is really and I'm not scared of speaking up. And so my first
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reply was, well, that's really like you shouldn't be saying this, Like
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this is inappropriate, Like why can I not be both and why does my
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physic has anything to do with what I'm actually doing as my profession. And
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so since this moment, every time I went back to Traito and every time
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we would bring additional women, I would be on the lookout. I will
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tell them like what they can expect, what they shouldn't expect, like what
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they cannot what they should not, you know, deal with exactly, and
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like if something happened, that they have the possibility to come to me,
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to come to any executive, everybody's going to have their back, but also
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that they have the possibility of speaking up, even if it's a potential client.
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Oh, this guy is maybe a potential VP of this guy or this
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girl. Remind this, I'm using a sexless gender right now, this person,
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this person is a potential client. That doesn't mean that this is acceptable.
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That doesn't mean that those my coaggression as you call them, or acceptable.
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And so this is one of the example of mentorship or coaching that like,
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I was like, you have the right to set your own boundaries and
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to speak up for yourself. So this was one example. But even within
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the workplace, as we said again, the number of women into executive leadership
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position is less. It's only eleventh person, as Gartner was mentioning, and
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so those are more rare example of who you can have a mentor to support
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you. And so one of the game example I like is one of my
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client The reason why they hire us is that when we did the pitch,
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there was five or six other vendors and were the only one that came up
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with two womens on our actual project teams. And I was going to be
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a project manager. And this is not the sole reason why they hire us,
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but one of the reasons. She's like, I really appreciated that I
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was going to be working with other women in this industry. So it was
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kind of a rewarding feeling and like kind of thing gratifying to see that this
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was recognized. And so I've been working with this person for over ten months
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now, and I appreciate so much to see somebody in this position and she's
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leading multiple she's in a cross functional role, and so being able to deal
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with kind of different type of workforce and different type of personality and being really
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frequently in a room of the only woman with ten fifteen men in the room,
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and being able to speak up and asservative and make be funny at the
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same time, because you know, you need to be witty at the same
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time, because if you're too direct or too harsh, it's also going to
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be used against you. And so being able to like aid, this is
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an appropriate or oh, be careful, where are you going with this?
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She's been a really good mentor for me, and seeing that this is possible
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and how to manage those those microaggression is I would say it's really It's been
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really insightful for me, and having a mentor is sometimes difficult to find that
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person who's going to mentor you. I think that when it comes to professional
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mentors, often you find them outside of your own company, just because I
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know, in my case, my role doesn't exist otherwise within our company,
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so I have to kind of create it myself and or talk with someone from
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another company, like like you were just saying, but when it comes to
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mentors within our company, we also want to have those those individuals who are
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on our side, who have our backs when it comes to a lot of
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these things, like we were talking about, those those soft things that don't
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get put onto a performance review or a growth plan, where you can have
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that mentor who's got your back, who's speaking up for you when something happens,
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when someone makes an offhand remark that they don't realize is really hurtful or
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misogynistic or sexist, that we can have that comfort level of someone standing up
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for you behind your back and saying, no, that's not okay, that's
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not the way we treat our colleagues, or you know, that's a non
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issue whether or not she's going to, you know, start this project right
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before she goes on maternity leave. We've got backfill for that. Why would
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you not want to put her on this project just because there's going to be,
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you know, a part in the middle where she's she's not fully on
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board. That doesn't mean that we don't need her expertise at the beginning and
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then again at the end, we really do need to make sure that we
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are advocating for those those individuals you know, from and screaming it from the
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top of the mountains because we want women to be involved in our industry.
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And I have to bring up the fact that you were listed as one of
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supply and Demand Chain executives Women in Supply Chain this year. Thank you so
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yes, you were. You were named as as part of that list.
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It's not technically an award, it's just a recognition of some of the top
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women in our industry. And one of the things that they said on their
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website about this particular reason for this list was the greater diversity within an organization,
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the more viewpoints that are tapped to tackle a problem or create a strategy.
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If one demographic makes up the c suite or board of a company,
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there's a much narrower lens through which the company can assess and handle an issue
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or create a plan. And I think that's so true when you live in
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a little echo chamber, even a small echo chamber as small as a C
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suite within a company, that non diversity of thought is going to directly impact
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what your company is able to achieve. And so bringing in these other viewpoints
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of women who have families, women who are mature in their career, women
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who don't want families, but women with all these different experiences are going to
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give these companies different perspectives on their product, on their processes, on the
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way they go to market, the way they work with their suppliers and vendors.
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It's going to impact these companies greatly if they're willing to accept and tap
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in to the resources that they have available instead of alienating them. And I
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so in my role, I'm in charge of recruiting all senior talent, and
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we already had struggling. It's the war of talent is real and everybody I've
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talked to, multiple suppliers, clients all over like it's it's it's an issue
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for everybody to recruit and to retain those talents. And so if you think
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about that, you already already that it's a war. And let's see,
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you already have conscious bias. Oh, you're looking at only a certain type
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of profile. You're reducing this pool of talents so much more so if you're
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able to kind of broaden your space and tap in into a much larger workforce.
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And with having a different point of view. Sometimes we recruit based on
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technical skills, but we under estimate the soft skills of somebody that can be
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oh teaching them the technical may be faster than teaching them the soft skills of
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a jet you know what I'm talking about. Yes, if you tap in
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into this larger if you don't kind of reduce this bold, but you actually
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tap in into a much larger then that's where you have much more greater chance
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of finding the right person or the unicorn activity goal. So this is one
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point. The second point that I really like is Subachan used to be really
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siloed. You would have transportation, you would have manufacturing, you would have
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warehousing, you would have procurement. And we've been seeing and even more in
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the last year's how you need to integrate those processes and you need to have
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a much better understanding of what's happening before and what's going to happen after,
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because the consequences on one aspect is major throughout the full value chain. And
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so I think having this blend of talent, the skills of collaboration, having
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a much more understanding of the overall processes, it's extremely important. And those
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skills are and also being a fascinator, being able to negotiate, being able
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to give in and what's the expression given and give and take? So adving
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also those roles where you can give in and take. It's extremely critical right
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now because that's how you're going to have an efficient company. And so those
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are role that like women can succeed in it, that are that are doing
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a lot of giving and taken, and that are having a really strong communication
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skill. So I do think this is also kind of a big potential for
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for women and subligens. I agree. And one other thing that we were
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talking about in regard to managers and mentors really supporting their workforce, and and
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this is something that isn't It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not
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your male or female, but the remote workforce is such a pervasive part of
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our workforce now where people are having high brid work from home, work from
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the road, work from some tropical location if they're lucky, and then you
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know, a couple days in the office, but some people maybe don't have
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any FaceTime in the office. But in historically, management type trainings were taught
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how to manage a team, who present, who exists, who sits at
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a desk, and the management training has not quite adapted or trickled all the
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way down into how do I manage a remote team? How do I support
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a remote team. And one of the things that the study and a number
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of other articles have pulled in is that women are typically the the rules or
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they're the person who goes for that hybrid or that remote opportunity because it makes
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childcare easier, because it makes taking care of a family or other obligations,
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whether it's you know, maybe you're dealing with aged parents, that type of
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caregiver role. It makes that so much easier if she can do that from
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a remote location. But if your manager is only worrying about the people sitting
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in the office, that kind of leaves you out in the cold. So
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having that management training of how do I effectively coach, how do I effectively
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delegate, how do I effectively work with this person who is remote and continue
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to develop them. Just because they're out of sight does not mean they're out
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of mind and they're not important to the team. That's a good point on
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onboarding and coaching and training those managers. And I think we went from one
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to eighty. We went from full time in the office to full time remote
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and not having this flexable approach, and we've never really sit down and coach
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our manager and what do you do when you think an employee is actually maybe
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not doing it's forty hours because it's at home and you don't see it.
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How do you manage something that it's bigging harder to see and so how one
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of the points that I like about this is typically how to address hard conversation,
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how to have those a bit conflictual. How to manage conflict, not
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as to mean that you need to be in a fire or screaming, but
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having those hard conversations mean that it's going to be uncomfortable, that you might
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like have like some pushback, but still be able to retain to some point
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you motivate the same ploye at the end because you don't want to also lose
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this engagement. And so how to have those conversations to be able to motivate
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the same point and get an alignment and assign vision between your manager and your
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reports. And I think that's kind of coaching that we haven't had, I
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a fleually agree with you that we went from one to the other one,
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and we've never actually had the time to sit down and talk to our manager
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and say like, look, this is how we should be, This is
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how you should be having conversation with your employees. This is how often you
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should probably be checking on them, Like how do you make sure that you
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create the same united vision remotely? Is a really good question. But talking
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about flexibility, because flexibility is also a one way to improve in the company.
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But I also think rethinking our leadership roles and this is both male female,
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like all included, we typically see executive leadership doing sixty hours on the
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road, you know, working hard days and night. We need to start
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thinking about somebody at eighty percent of our time, maybe traveling once a month,
24:25
but being more present in the office. Can she or he bring as
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much value to the company and are we ready to maybe kind of see this
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as a future leader, even an executive leadership. Can you have an executive
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leader at sixty percent of this time? Is this something that companies are ready
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to invest and would be able to see the value that this person can still
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bring in the company. So that I think that's a question that I'm interesting
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and saying, like how can we we think the way of executive leadership looks
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like our roles? Yes, I agree, and I think that the more
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we get these female viewpoints into the conversation, the more we're going to come
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up with the creative solutions. That there's not a one size fits all to
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the way a company is organized or the demographics of their workplace. We just
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need to make sure that we are including, you know, different viewpoints or
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perhaps we're asking, you know, does this work for this type of individual?
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Is this a good enough solution, or do we need to make it
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more flexible? So I agree if it were easy, like you said at
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the beginning, if this were easy, we would have solved it already.
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The fact that we're still working on it means that we've got a little bit
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of work to go. But I think as a society where we've come so
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far in terms of supporting women in our workplace, and we've got a little
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bit further to go until we're all the way there. But we are on
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the right track, I believe, I do agree, I do agreed,
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And yeah, So what realize is also a lot of our a good portion
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of our high potential in the company are actually women. And so how do
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we make sure that this talent can be transformed into future leaders in the company,
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and that they make sure that we retain them and that they stay and
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that they see a path forward and so this is only what realizes that a
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lot of them might be more self conscious, being less of the advocate for
26:26
themselves, sometime trusting a bit them less their kind of their influence in the
26:33
company or even their own talent or competence. And so that's something that were
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like, no, you need to believe in yourself, like you're doing good,
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and like here's we've been like building some individual plans of like here's where
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we see you in five years, here where we see you in ten years,
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and we do believe that you could get this if this is what you
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desired, here's the path there, and we're going to be supporting you.
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And this is not only me, this is the full company, all the
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company, men and women, diversity, everybody who's trying to support this to
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make sure that like we can have those those high potential dren forming into future
27:04
leaders in our company. And so also kind of trainings on how women can
27:11
be more asservative and be making sure that they stand up for themselves. And
27:15
you know, when you're in a room of ten fifteen men and you're the
27:18
only woman, and sometimes it can be feeling a bit intimidating. Yes,
27:25
thank you, I was looking for the word, and so how do you
27:27
make sure that, like you, you need to have strong trust in your
27:32
competence and what you're going to say. So sometimes it's a bit more kind
27:34
of I'm not going to see this until I'm ninety percent sure of what I'm
27:38
seeing it. Yeah, I've I've I've read something similar that men are more
27:42
likely to speak up with an idea just off the cuff then women are.
27:47
Women will wait until they know more facts. They will wait until they are
27:51
absolutely sure of what they're about to say before they will speak up for themselves
27:55
with an idea, with a concept, and so that hinders them in their
28:00
in their own career, just their lack of self confidence in what they bring
28:06
to the table, what they bring to the company, what they bring to
28:07
their position, what they bring to their role, and what influence they can
28:12
have on the way things are done. Which we're going back to mentorship.
28:18
I think that's who mentorship has huge value in the company. And again,
28:21
when we mean mentorship, it doesn't need to be woman to woman. It
28:23
can be you can I had some really strong mentors in my life that was
28:29
men that I know would have my back and are listening to my point of
28:32
view and are going to work to any challenges I would have with me.
28:36
So yeah, I agree. Mentorship is also something that going back to is
28:41
bring a lot of value in the company. All right. So on that
28:44
note, I think I need to sign up to be a mentor because apparently
28:47
young women in the industry need this. Most companies say that managers have been
28:53
expected to do more over the last two years to support employees well being,
28:57
in advancement, and promote inlusion on their teams. So knowing that that managers
29:04
are expected to do more and you know, and their well being is top
29:10
of mind, that they're they're feeling all of this inclusion that we were just
29:14
talking about, that they're feeling a valued part of that team. I think
29:18
that that means that we're on the right track. If we're saying that managers
29:22
are expected to do more, we just need to support those managers, whether
29:25
they be male or female, in trying to bring this inclusion to the forefront
29:30
and make sure that it is a living, breathing part of their organization.
29:34
And I fully agreed it is a responsibility of everybody up and down, right
29:38
and left. Inclusions should be always kind of first thing we think of during
29:45
hiring, during developing talent, promotion, during retaining in and also thinking about
29:52
how to make sure that we challenge ourselfs and doing unconscious bias. And that's
29:57
where like, if you have critical of openness and direct feedback in a respectful
30:03
matter always, but that you have people that can challenge you, like are
30:07
you sure this is what you should have said? Or are you should this
30:10
is what you should thinking at If you do create this environment of trust and
30:14
that people feel comfortable to speak up in a respectful manner. Again, I
30:19
think that's where you can challenge unconscious bias, and then that's where you can
30:22
evolve into a much more divorced and inclusive culture and environment. All right,
30:27
that sounds fantastic ideal. That brings us to the end of our episode.
30:33
Thank you so much Emily for joining me today and sharing your experiences and your
30:37
perspective on women in our workforce and specifically in the supply chain industry. I
30:44
hope our listeners enjoy the discussion as much as I did. I'd love to
30:47
keep the discussion going. Do you have a similar experience or a different opinion
30:52
on how to support women in the supply chain industry? Let me know your
30:55
thoughts at podcast at mebak dot com. Or if you have a suggestion for
31:00
another topic, or if you'd like to be a guest on our show,
31:02
you can reach me at again podcast at mebak dot com. As always,
31:07
thank you for listening to Speaking of Supply Chain. If you enjoyed the show,
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please rate us on whatever podcast platform you prefer, or at Apple Podcasts,
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