Latest / Inside Politics / The inflation figures were bad, so why focus on Albanese’s T-shirt?

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The inflation figures were bad, so why focus on Albanese’s T-shirt? · Inside Politics

0:02
S1: From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
0:04
S1: This is inside politics. I'm Jacqueline Maley, it's Friday 31st
0:08
S1: of October. Paul chuckle. Happy Halloween.
0:12
S2: Are we at October 31st already?
0:17
S1: I was going to say, do you do you trick
0:18
S1: or treat in Canberra? Do you like do you celebrate
0:22
S1: at all? Do you put a little pumpkin outside your
0:24
S1: house or something from Woolies or Kmart?
0:26
S2: I live in an apartment building, so I'm not sure
0:27
S2: if the kids could get up there, but I do.
0:29
S2: All this talk about, you know, not adopting American holidays,
0:32
S2: I get that, but I find it a bit naff.
0:34
S2: And I do enjoy the kids walking around a neighborhood
0:37
S2: having fun. And it feels like a nice community thing.
0:39
S2: So I'm all for Halloween, actually.
0:41
S1: Yeah. I mean, we celebrate in a big way in
0:43
S1: our house, and I just sort of think, well, you know,
0:45
S1: these kids these days have got a lot to worry about.
0:48
S1: Give them, let them have a few lollies and a
0:49
S1: little bit of joy. It's exactly the kind of thing
0:51
S1: we should be encouraging. Anyway, on to this week's news,
0:55
S1: because this week we're actually going to talk about the
0:56
S1: government's weaknesses, which might seem a little bit counterintuitive because
1:00
S1: Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has been flying so high on
1:03
S1: the international stage. We saw him again, like dining and
1:06
S1: almost canoodling with Trump at this dinner at Asean. He's
1:11
S1: been doing very well off overseas. But back on the
1:14
S1: domestic front, there's a few weaknesses, particularly in the economy. Paul,
1:19
S1: can you talk us through those?
1:24
S2: Yeah. Well, if you were looking at politics from a
1:26
S2: bird's eye view at the moment, you'd see a prime
1:28
S2: minister who looks totally unassailable. He's winning on the international stage.
1:33
S2: He's riding high in the polls. He hasn't faced a
1:37
S2: really tricky moment. That's put him under real peril since
1:40
S2: his huge election win. That election win totally changed the
1:43
S2: vibe around the Prime Minister.
1:44
S1: He did wear a really bad T-shirt this weekend. But
1:47
S1: we're going to we're going to get on to that later.
1:48
S2: Really? Is that your view on the t shirt?
1:50
S1: Just morally reprehensible t shirt.
1:53
S2: Are you advising the opposition leader? This is a new term. Um,
1:56
S2: we'll get to that later.
1:56
S1: Yeah, we'll get to that later.
1:58
S2: So in one sense, the Prime Minister is riding high.
2:01
S2: He's incredibly confident in private and bubbly and jovial and
2:04
S2: joking about whether he'll serve 5 or 7 terms. But
2:07
S2: there are still structural problems for the government that they
2:09
S2: haven't solved because their policy agenda has weaknesses, and in
2:13
S2: some places it's failing to address the big issues in
2:16
S2: our society and the popularity in the political sense of
2:19
S2: the government masks that. But it still exists. And this
2:21
S2: week was a good example of that, because there were
2:24
S2: two breakout issues that went into two of those big
2:27
S2: problems for the government, one of them being the pretty
2:30
S2: weak economy. We're now having employment, unemployment rising at the
2:33
S2: same time as inflation is ticking up again. Surprisingly, there's
2:37
S2: almost certainly not going to be a rate cut this year,
2:39
S2: and we may not get one until well into next year.
2:41
S2: In fact, some economists are saying the trajectory of rates
2:43
S2: might be upwards. And so this idea that Jim Chalmers,
2:48
S2: in the second term of the labor government, would have
2:51
S2: the freedom and space to start tackling the structural issues
2:54
S2: in the budget on tax and on intergenerational inequality in
2:58
S2: a more benign environment where cost of living pressures had
3:01
S2: subsided and rates would be coming down, is not quite
3:04
S2: coming to pass. His reform agenda was was questionable anyway,
3:07
S2: even when we did think the trajectory of rates was
3:09
S2: coming down. But now it's even trickier. Yeah. And on
3:11
S2: another front, the energy transition for all governments around the
3:15
S2: world trying to pursue emissions reduction is really hard. It's
3:18
S2: transformational and was always going to be rocky. But Labor's
3:22
S2: having particular trouble getting enough renewable energy into the grid.
3:25
S2: They have social licence issues and there are cost issues
3:28
S2: with renewable energy. The government likes to say they're the
3:30
S2: cheapest form of energy and a lot is coming on.
3:32
S2: Yet electricity prices remain really high and we saw this
3:36
S2: week the likely closure of another one of our few
3:39
S2: remaining aluminium smelters, Tomago, in New South Wales. It looks
3:43
S2: like they're going to reject government offers for a bailout,
3:46
S2: and that will lead to many thousands of job losses.
3:48
S2: And this is a kind of canary in the coal
3:50
S2: mine for our manufacturing sector, which is struggling under the
3:54
S2: weight of high gas prices.
3:56
S1: Yeah. So basically there were two events this week. The
3:58
S1: first one was inflation figures, which you alluded to there,
4:01
S1: which basically were shocking figures. I mean, a lot of
4:04
S1: economists were like using pretty strong adjectives about them.
4:07
S2: I saw Shane Wright's face when these figures came through.
4:10
S1: Was was he devastated? Was he shocked? Was he appalled?
4:13
S2: He was a dog.
4:15
S1: A dog.
4:16
S2: I didn't see him right at the moment, but he
4:18
S2: I think people were genuinely surprised and people were wondering.
4:22
S2: So to let readers know about what the numbers said.
4:24
S2: The quarterly figure is crucial because it sums up the
4:26
S2: last three months. There's an interest rate decision by the
4:29
S2: RBA and the Melbourne Cup day. There was the market
4:31
S2: was pricing in a pretty significant chance of a cut.
4:34
S2: These inflation figures came through and they showed that in
4:36
S2: the last quarter inflation was around 1%, which means annually
4:40
S2: that rises up into the threes or fours, which is
4:42
S2: well above the RBA target band. And the expectation was
4:46
S2: for that figure to be somewhere at the 0.6 or 7.
4:48
S2: So it's a significant overshoot.
4:50
S1: Yeah. And this sort of raises the Spectre Halloween pun
4:53
S1: intended of stagflation, where you have a stagnant, stagnant economy,
4:58
S1: but with inflation on the rise because the other figures,
5:01
S1: I mean, I did a bit of a deep dive
5:03
S1: on the ABS website, as you know, as I like
5:06
S1: to do on a on a lazy afternoon. It's not good,
5:10
S1: like the economy is very sluggish. So there were the
5:13
S1: the CPI figures this week. We've got rising unemployment was
5:15
S1: up to 4.5% in September. Crucially, like household savings the
5:20
S1: income to savings ratio fell. So people are saving less money,
5:25
S1: digging into their savings more and seasonally adjusted. In the
5:28
S1: last quarter, the economy grew just 0.6%. So the economy's
5:32
S1: not great. You know, something that Jim Chalmers will presumably
5:36
S1: at some point have to answer for. And then you've got, yeah,
5:39
S1: the the Tomago aluminium smelter, which is so interesting in
5:42
S1: a way, because it is the crunch point of really
5:47
S1: decades of chaotic and silly climate policy or energy transition
5:53
S1: non policy coming to bear down on a few thousand
5:56
S1: workers who probably are going to lose their jobs.
5:59
S2: Yeah, it's a it's a fascinating case study because it
6:02
S2: speaks to the broader issue of what our energy policy
6:04
S2: has done to some sections of the economy. And it's
6:07
S2: really tough issue for both the government. And I mean,
6:10
S2: the opposition has an easy political win to say the
6:12
S2: government's costing jobs and that's a clear cut line. But
6:15
S2: it does open up this question of what role the
6:18
S2: government should play in keeping industries like this alive. The
6:22
S2: smelter is not profitable, yes, because of energy costs, but
6:24
S2: also because of international competition, largely from China. And so
6:28
S2: the government's in this position now where they are being
6:30
S2: asked for huge bailouts across the country to keep some
6:33
S2: of these manufacturing businesses and smelters alive. And they have
6:37
S2: to wrestle with this question of how much money do
6:39
S2: they spend to prop up businesses that will fail anyway?
6:43
S2: And is there enough of a sovereignty and national strategy
6:47
S2: imperative to keep them open, or could we rely on
6:50
S2: imports in some of these areas? So Tomago, for example,
6:53
S2: there is another aluminium smelter in Queensland where there's a
6:56
S2: state government that's more interventionist and wants to keep it alive.
6:59
S2: They have more focus on that than the New South
7:01
S2: Wales Labor government. Interestingly, even though they're an LNP government
7:04
S2: and so labor is in this position where they have
7:06
S2: to keep these industries alive until more renewables come on,
7:09
S2: maybe in the middle of next decade or sometime over
7:11
S2: the next five years when prices hopefully come down and
7:14
S2: when hopefully they do a gas reservation on the East
7:18
S2: Coast to bring down gas prices. But in the interim,
7:20
S2: there's this really rocky period that the government has been
7:23
S2: forced to smooth over. And the question is, how much
7:25
S2: do they spend on that?
7:26
S1: And I mean, the figures that we're talking about to
7:28
S1: prop up these, these smelters, because this is not the
7:30
S1: first one that's put its hand up or has it
7:33
S1: actually looks like this aluminium smelter, which is owned by Rio,
7:36
S1: will not take the bailout option that the government's offering it.
7:39
S1: But other previously other companies have. And it's we're talking
7:43
S1: about tens and tens of billions of dollars. I mean,
7:45
S1: it's a huge impost on the taxpayer. And I mean,
7:48
S1: this brings me to my next point. Meanwhile, you know,
7:52
S1: at home, the coalition is sort of slowly but surely, like,
7:56
S1: I don't know, driving itself off a cliff. It often
7:58
S1: looks like, in terms of the defections, in terms of
8:00
S1: their internal chaos over net zero. But there is actually,
8:04
S1: if they were able to get their act together, there
8:06
S1: is actually a very strong line of criticism against the government,
8:11
S1: or at least a line of scrutiny against the government,
8:14
S1: which is this whole we are driving towards net zero.
8:17
S1: We are going on this renewables pitch, but it's going
8:20
S1: to cost the taxpayer a lot of money. And I
8:22
S1: don't think the government has been particularly up front about that.
8:25
S1: They've got their own political reasons for not wanting to
8:27
S1: be particularly transparent or particularly facing forward about how much
8:31
S1: it costs, but that cost will be borne by the
8:34
S1: taxpayers and certainly deserves a bit of scrutiny from a
8:38
S1: healthy opposition.
8:40
S2: And if they had their own House in order on
8:42
S2: energy policy, they'd be able to much more heavily focus
8:45
S2: on the government. But instead, we spent a week on
8:48
S2: Monday focused on Barnaby Joyce, who's blown up over the
8:50
S2: net zero issue.
8:51
S3: My position, my position is adamantly against net zero, not
8:54
S3: a not an amelioration of net zero or a sort
8:58
S3: of a refinement of net zero or an amendment of
9:01
S3: net zero. I want to get rid of net zero.
9:02
S3: Get rid.
9:03
S4: Of it. I know you do.
9:04
S2: And who's doing this pretty transparent dance in Parliament where
9:08
S2: he's dangling out the prospect of his defection, which he
9:11
S2: is planning to execute without saying.
9:13
S3: So it is outrageous. No, I don't need to be
9:15
S3: part of a discussion. In fact, it's probably better that
9:18
S3: I'm not there. And that is so that the room
9:20
S3: can have the confidence of what they say stays in
9:25
S3: the room. Because, you know, I my position is.
9:27
S2: And then as the week has gone on, there's been
9:30
S2: so much discussion up here in Canberra about a Friday
9:32
S2: morning meeting of coalition MPs where they're going to discuss
9:35
S2: their own net zero policy for when they get into
9:38
S2: government in 2031 or whenever that is. So they've not
9:42
S2: landed the politics internally. They've not been able to convince
9:45
S2: the public that they've sorted out the energy issue on
9:48
S2: their side. And so it just sucks all the oxygen
9:50
S2: out of their arguments against the government.
9:53
S1: There are sort of glimmers of light. It seems to
9:56
S1: be someone, someone within the coalition is is leaking out
9:58
S1: or is briefing out constantly this line. And we heard
10:01
S1: it from Tim Wilson when we had him on the
10:03
S1: podcast a few weeks ago that they do support net zero,
10:07
S1: but not at any cost. And you know, what does
10:10
S1: that mean? It means it can mean, you know, all
10:12
S1: things to all people or ultimately nothing. But um, but
10:15
S1: it is quite a good line. And then we saw
10:17
S1: Scott Morrison, weirdly enough, doing a LinkedIn post this week
10:20
S1: saying that the commitment to net zero is pure ideology
10:24
S1: and it should basically be ditched. And this is, of course,
10:27
S1: the net zero policy that he signed on to and
10:30
S1: backed in as prime minister. But he's now saying the
10:32
S1: circumstances have changed. The global environment has changed. And, you know,
10:36
S1: we should work towards it, but not at any cost.
10:39
S2: So yeah.
10:40
S1: The coalition's kind of in some quarters getting a line
10:43
S1: on this. Is it. Is it ever going to be
10:44
S1: an effective line. Are they ever going to be able
10:46
S1: to actually make it into a sort of strategy?
10:49
S2: Yeah, I think the Morrison post on LinkedIn, uh, was
10:53
S2: initially viewed. And if you just read it quickly, you'd
10:56
S2: think that he was calling for net zero to be dumped.
10:58
S2: And he was pushing the the kind of Barnaby Joyce
11:01
S2: right wing coalition line that we need to drop all
11:03
S2: emissions targets. But I think actually he was trying to
11:06
S2: clear the path for where. Sussan Ley is trying to
11:07
S2: get to, which is to drop the legislated mandate to
11:11
S2: net zero to create this looser aspiration, which, as you say,
11:14
S2: can mean all things to all people and to slow
11:17
S2: down on renewables, put more gas into the system, lean
11:21
S2: on technologies like small modular nuclear reactors, which don't exist yet,
11:25
S2: but there is some great hope that they might and
11:28
S2: hope that the coalition clings on to and really to
11:31
S2: to do net zero in a more coalition way that
11:35
S2: satisfies their base, that satisfies their MPs, that they're not
11:39
S2: going on this renewables frolic that they worry so deeply
11:42
S2: about with labor.
11:43
S1: Yeah. To to like chill out on renewable the rush
11:46
S1: to renewables a little bit which by the way is
11:48
S1: not going to give any certainty to the market or business.
11:51
S2: No. And we need more renewables in the system immediately
11:55
S2: because that is that is what that's part of what's
11:57
S2: keeping prices high. We need more transmission lines. But a
12:00
S2: lot of these transmission lines runs run through national and
12:03
S2: country Liberal Party seats, and people are a bit pissed
12:05
S2: off about them. So there's there are trade offs everywhere here.
12:08
S2: And it's, it's it's such a it's such a difficult debate.
12:10
S1: Can I just sidebar a little bit to Scott Morrison's intervention?
12:15
S1: It just seems to me, um, I'm going to include
12:17
S1: Barnaby Joyce in this as well. It just seems to
12:19
S1: me this is the kind of stuff that people hate
12:21
S1: the most about politicians. You know, Scott Morrison, maybe, maybe
12:25
S1: what he said on on LinkedIn was reasonably nuanced. But
12:28
S1: basically he's saying the policy that I backed in in government,
12:32
S1: I now am saying what I really think about it,
12:35
S1: which is that it's really not that it's really not
12:37
S1: that worthwhile. So I'm essentially admitting that I cynically backed
12:41
S1: a policy for my own political purposes because I had
12:44
S1: to at the time, but I didn't really believe in it. Likewise,
12:46
S1: Barnaby Joyce, who's now campaigning so strongly against net zero
12:51
S1: to the point where he's like storming out of his
12:54
S1: own party, like helmed a party that sat with this policy.
12:58
S2: He was the deputy PM right when this was put through.
13:01
S2: He did get a basket of goodies. Remember, he got
13:04
S2: like a $40 billion. Nats. Yes. Slush fund in exchange
13:08
S2: for this deal?
13:09
S1: Yes.
13:09
S2: Which never really materialized. So he now does not have
13:12
S2: the $40 billion slush fund or whatever. It was. 20 billion.
13:14
S2: So he's.
13:15
S1: But isn't.
13:15
S2: This.
13:15
S1: Everything that people hate about politicians? It's like, oh, now
13:18
S1: that you're telling us what you really think, you're admitting
13:21
S1: that you had absolutely no conviction with the policies that
13:24
S1: you were sort of backing into the public at the time?
13:26
S1: I don't know, it just really struck me that it's
13:28
S1: particularly cynical on this stuff.
13:30
S2: Morrison would argue, I don't disagree with you. Morrison would
13:33
S2: argue that. And he put this part of this in
13:35
S2: his LinkedIn post. He would say that the global zeitgeist
13:38
S2: has changed from 2021. You're seeing a bunch of different
13:40
S2: European countries go slower on renewables now. The transition has
13:45
S2: been rockier than we thought. There are new technologies emerging.
13:48
S2: There was a threat of a carbon tariff that would
13:51
S2: have hurt our economy if we didn't sign up at
13:52
S2: the time. And Morrison's a pretty pragmatic operator. He's not
13:56
S2: someone who would ever push for the Liberal Party to
13:58
S2: to move away from a sense that it is serious
14:01
S2: about climate change. But, you know, he's read the tea
14:04
S2: leaves and put his finger up into the into the
14:06
S2: air and read the direction of travel.
14:08
S1: I guess it's it's the, the pragmatism. Where does pragmatism
14:12
S1: sort of venture into into cynicism, I don't know. That's
14:15
S1: a that's a question for philosophers, not us maybe.
14:17
S2: But it just strikes me that listeners had heard labor
14:20
S2: ministers in private talk about their own policies, which they
14:23
S2: do and don't disagree with.
14:24
S1: Well, I also want to talk about that, because I
14:26
S1: do think that the the government is not particularly upfront
14:29
S1: about how much this is going to cost. We had
14:31
S1: Chris Bowen sort of saying this week, don't worry, there's
14:34
S1: help on the way. There's going to be a surge
14:35
S1: of renewable energy into the grid and that will bring
14:38
S1: energy prices down. But these inflation figures, which have really
14:42
S1: kind of shocked everyone, and part of part of the
14:44
S1: inflation figures, of course, is electricity prices. I want to
14:47
S1: just talk quickly about, um, Anthony Albanese's abhorrent values breaching
14:54
S1: tee shirt. Can you just tell us catch people up
14:57
S1: on that in case they missed it, this incredibly important
15:00
S1: piece of news.
15:01
S2: This was the I think this is the problem. Is
15:04
S2: it is this the issue that's captured most attention this week?
15:06
S5: And the t shirt elbow wore as he stepped off
15:08
S5: the plane from DC has come back to bite him.
15:11
S5: Let's have a look at it. We all thought it
15:13
S5: was kind of funny, a bit of daggy coolness going on,
15:18
S5: but not everyone is happy.
15:20
S6: Arriving back in Australia from his overseas trip, the Prime
15:23
S6: Minister stepped off the plane proudly wearing a t shirt
15:27
S6: with the name of a band, Joy Division, whose origins
15:30
S6: are steeped in anti-Semitism.
15:33
S2: So I was walking into the House of reps when
15:36
S2: the opposition leader, Sussan Ley, was delivering this speech. She
15:38
S2: did it there, called 92nd statements. And yeah, an MP
15:41
S2: can get up just before Question Time as most of
15:44
S2: the other MPs are filing in, and the government usually
15:46
S2: gives it to a backbencher or someone who wants to
15:49
S2: make a sharp political point. And it often riles people up.
15:52
S2: And there's some shouting before Question Time. It's a bit
15:54
S2: of fun as well. And I walked in halfway through
15:56
S2: and I heard her talking about Joy Division, and I
15:59
S2: heard her talking about anti-Semitism and this been a bad
16:02
S2: judgment call for the for the Prime Minister to have
16:04
S2: worn this very famous band t shirt for Joy Division's
16:07
S2: Unknown Pleasures album, which everybody, a lot of our listeners
16:10
S2: would know if they saw it.
16:11
S6: The name was taken from the wing of a Nazi
16:14
S6: concentration camp, where Jewish women were forced into sexual slavery
16:20
S6: at a time when Jewish.
16:21
S2: And I was I've been a Joy Division fan, not
16:23
S2: a huge one. I've never I've never actually knew that
16:25
S2: was the historical name, where it came from. And my
16:28
S2: colleague Natasha wrote about the genesis of how this became
16:32
S2: an issue. There was a small group of right wing
16:35
S2: accounts on X posting about this link between the name
16:38
S2: and concentration camps. Uh, the Joy Division band members have
16:43
S2: talked about this over time. They were not Nazi sympathizers.
16:46
S2: They had no, uh, contentious views about Jewish people. It
16:48
S2: was just a kind of punk.
16:52
S1: A snappy name.
16:52
S2: Yeah, a snappy, artistic name chosen to, you know, be edgy.
16:55
S2: I guess I don't know enough about their thinking on it. Um,
16:58
S2: so this emanated online. It wasn't really getting any legs.
17:01
S2: And then Sharri Markson, the conservative commentator on Sky, did
17:05
S2: a piece on, you know, linking this to the long
17:07
S2: standing debate about the Prime minister's alleged on on the
17:11
S2: conservative side argument, alleged failure to tackle anti-Semitism. He actually
17:15
S2: got told about the history of the name in a
17:17
S2: podcast 2 or 3 years ago. He was unaware of
17:20
S2: it and he said, oh geez, I didn't know about that.
17:22
S2: And so Markson's argument was that given he knew the connotations,
17:25
S2: he should never have worn the t shirt again. And
17:27
S2: he was warned. I didn't hear any politicians speak about
17:30
S2: it privately or publicly, until Susan Lee decided to get
17:34
S2: up and make a point of this just before Question Time,
17:37
S2: and to say that her criticism fell flat would be
17:41
S2: a bit of an understatement. Most of her colleagues were
17:43
S2: pretty stunned that she made a point of this.
17:47
S1: And they publicly backed away from it or refused to
17:49
S1: back her.
17:49
S2: Yeah, most people just found it a pretty bizarre and
17:53
S2: potentially slightly desperate attack that made Sussan Ley, fairly or otherwise,
17:58
S2: appear as if she was pandering to a kind of sky. base,
18:03
S2: and trying to offset the argument that she herself is
18:06
S2: not sufficiently pro-Israel because she's previously held strongly pro-Palestinian views.
18:11
S2: So this is a weak point for her. On the
18:13
S2: conservative side, that occasionally it looks as if she feels
18:16
S2: the need to, you know, overcorrect on.
18:19
S1: I mean, it was to me completely bizarre. And also,
18:22
S1: I think it does call into question a little bit
18:24
S1: Susan Lee's judgment because she has they haven't been very
18:28
S1: widely publicized, but she has made some quite good speeches on,
18:31
S1: you know, fiscal responsibility, on tax reform. Peter Hartcher, in
18:35
S1: his column last week, pointed out that she gave a
18:38
S1: speech where she talked about tax and basically committed the
18:40
S1: next coalition government under her to decreasing income tax. But
18:46
S1: that was not a headline anywhere, because the coalition is
18:48
S1: just allowing itself to kind of get lost in this
18:52
S1: internal politics and these silly little arguments. It's sort of
18:55
S1: like woke culture, the worst of woke culture or the
18:58
S1: worst of cancellation culture sort of moves to the right
19:01
S1: where it's like we're combing through everything to try to
19:03
S1: take offense at things.
19:05
S2: She has given some some really solid kind of headland
19:08
S2: speeches on economic policy in recent months. But those in
19:11
S2: the modern, modern media environment, it's quite hard to get
19:13
S2: that kind of it's old school. It's old school to,
19:16
S2: to have those, um, those kinds of speeches get much airtime.
19:20
S2: They're important. We write about them. But the things that
19:23
S2: cut through tend to be breakout moments, unexpected quotes. I mean,
19:27
S2: and I think the problem for Susan Lee is that
19:29
S2: this Joy Division attack came a week or two after
19:33
S2: she called for Kevin Rudd to be sacked as US ambassador,
19:35
S2: which was also widely criticized as being a bit of
19:39
S2: an overreach, uh, and also not backed in by some
19:41
S2: of her colleagues. So there is a bit of a
19:44
S2: sense around the party room, the coalition party room. I
19:45
S2: was talking to one MP this morning who said that
19:48
S2: there there is a sense that, look, no one's moving
19:51
S2: against her imminently, but even her supporters are just losing
19:54
S2: a bit of faith and a bit of confidence in
19:56
S2: her judgment, her office's performance and her ability to build
20:01
S2: up strong long term arguments on economics, on energy, and
20:06
S2: to come into Parliament with real force to joust with labour.
20:11
S2: There is there is a diminished. It's been a while now.
20:13
S2: We've been been this been in this term for however
20:15
S2: many months. And she for a period was doing well
20:18
S2: in the polls. That's changed. The party polling hasn't really
20:21
S2: ticked up, and there is a growing sense that she's drifting.
20:24
S2: I'd say.
20:25
S1: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, Bill shorten was on our
20:27
S1: podcast last week and he spoke, spoke about the Big Mo,
20:29
S1: which I quite liked as a term, and the fact
20:31
S1: that that momentum is very important in politics. And it
20:34
S1: just seems like Susan Lee is trying to work up
20:36
S1: a bit of momentum, but she keeps sort of sputtering out.
20:40
S2: And remember what he said about not needing to make
20:42
S2: an attack at every moment. Yeah, she should have taken
20:44
S2: that advice on the on the band.
20:46
S1: To keep to to hold your tongue, which is not
20:50
S1: something that we do very much on this podcast, I
20:53
S1: should say, just quickly. The Liberal Party has now said
20:56
S1: that the review that it's doing on the net zero
20:57
S1: policy will be wrapped up, and they will actually come
21:00
S1: upon a land upon a policy by Christmas.
21:04
S2: I haven't quite said that specifically. I think our colleague
21:07
S2: Phil Currie wrote that.
21:08
S1: I've read it in the Australian Financial Review this week,
21:10
S1: so it must be true.
21:11
S2: Yeah. I don't think it's they haven't set a date
21:14
S2: specifically around Christmas, but I think they do hope to
21:17
S2: get something wrapped up this year. It may drag on.
21:20
S2: It may not. It's hard to know. They have this
21:22
S2: meeting on Friday where instead of Dante and the energy
21:25
S2: spokesperson coming in with a policy for people to debate,
21:29
S2: it's just another kind of pass the baton round. Let's
21:32
S2: have a chat about views which most, most MPs are
21:35
S2: not looking forward to it. They think it's pretty unhelpful
21:38
S2: for everyone to just air their views. Again, the views
21:40
S2: have well and truly been ventilated. Andrew Hastie is one
21:44
S2: of the leading net zero sceptics. He's going back to Perth.
21:48
S2: A bunch of MPs are going back to their families
21:50
S2: and will not engage in this meeting. That's been kind
21:53
S2: of declared a showdown, so they might land something by
21:56
S2: the end of the year. I think their preference would
21:58
S2: be to do it in one of the dead periods
22:00
S2: when there's not much media focus on politics. So maybe
22:03
S2: in the middle of December, which would allow them a
22:05
S2: bit of a clean slate to get stuck into some
22:07
S2: different issues early next year. And I think that first
22:10
S2: three months, first 3 or 4 months of next year
22:13
S2: has been put to me as quite critical for Susan
22:15
S2: Lee's leadership leading into the next budget. If she's not
22:18
S2: able to lift the party's fortunes to develop, particularly an
22:22
S2: economic attack line against the government going into Chalmers first budget,
22:27
S2: particularly given the parlous state of the nation's finances given
22:30
S2: the inflation problem, the unemployment problem. I think you'll see
22:33
S2: growing questions about her leadership around budget time when Parliament
22:37
S2: comes back, if the situation doesn't improve for her.
22:41
S1: Okay, well, before we think about Christmas and the summer holidays,
22:45
S1: we have to think about Halloween. So I hope you
22:47
S1: at least get a lolly or something.
22:48
S2: Are you going to stock up for the stock up
22:50
S2: for the kids?
22:51
S1: Well, no. See, we go out and trick or treat,
22:53
S1: so you kind of can't do both. We just leave
22:56
S1: a little bowl of lollies out for the kids.
22:59
S2: And just to take a you're a you're a leaning
23:01
S2: on a lifter. You you're.
23:03
S1: Taking. You know, we do I do I participate fully
23:08
S1: in the Halloween economy on both sides.
23:10
S2: No, that's really fun. Have a good time.
23:12
S1: It is a really fun, fun day. All right. Thanks
23:14
S1: for that, Paul. We'll see you next week.
23:15
S2: Talk to you next week.
23:22
S1: Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong. Our executive producer
23:26
S1: is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio.
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S1: Jacqueline Maley. Thank you for listening.