Latest / The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast / 5 TURNOVERS AND A LOSS?! | Chargers Fall to 0-3 in Buffalo

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5 TURNOVERS AND A LOSS?! | Chargers Fall to 0-3 in Buffalo · The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast

0:02
Who's got it better than that? No way! Robert
0:06
is being chased, thrown on the lawn, and it is
0:09
caught down! Keenan Allen! What a great... My
0:13
goal is not to break you, my goal is to make
0:15
you harder to break. Number six! Number six!
0:19
Suits shot by Joey Bolson! Nineteen yards touchdown!
0:23
Nineteen yards touchdown! Irwin Jean! Session
0:28
speed, takes a shot downfield, has Knighton,
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but touchdown! Oh dear. Oh dearie me. Another
0:48
week of football and another week of what on
0:52
earth are we watching here guys? A plus four
0:55
turnover differential and the Chargers lose!
0:59
Oh folks. Welcome to the Thunderdown Under Chargers
1:03
podcast. We had to talk him off the ledge this
1:05
week, but the teacher's here and Alistair, I
1:08
just want to see what I can get away with Lloyd.
1:11
Boys, it is good to be back, I guess. I'm back,
1:14
but Jack, I'm pretty darn speechless, man. Yeah,
1:17
good to have you back, mate. Good to have you
1:18
back on the host chair. We've missed you. I hope
1:20
you enjoyed your time away with your fam. Ah,
1:25
yeah, this is easily the worst start to the season
1:27
that I think I've ever experienced on the Thunder
1:29
Down Under. And I'm really struggling. Yep. It's
1:33
been a really, really hard week on all the chats.
1:35
I've been, I've tried to get to the bottom of
1:37
my spiral, but it's been pretty negative and
1:40
I still remain quite negative, Alistair. It's
1:42
just the way it goes. Yeah. If you're watching
1:44
this show, you're a, you're a true one. You're
1:46
a committed one. We don't want to be here. We're
1:49
glad that you're here. We kind of have to be
1:51
here, but we're going to find out a lot about
1:52
each other. Are you the type of person who goes
1:55
outside and says, it's partly cloudy today? Or
1:58
do you say, it's partly sunny today? Do you say
2:01
we entered the fourth quarter with a 13 -10 lead
2:05
in Buffalo? Hey, we're not too far away. No one
2:09
expected us to do that against the Super Bowl
2:10
champs. Or do you say, hey, this is a game where
2:14
we had five turnovers. on defense and we still
2:18
couldn't win. So if we can't win that game, we're
2:20
not going to win any game. We'll find out where
2:22
we sit on that throughout this conversation.
2:24
But that's where I'm at so far, Andy. Welcome
2:26
back. Yeah, of course. That's 13 -10 lead ended
2:30
up the 24 to 16 loss. And there's just a lot
2:37
of concern in a lot of areas that we're seeing.
2:42
Big shout out straight off the bat. I think defense
2:44
deserves A super mention, just awesome. That's
2:49
a bounce back from Chris O 'Leary after what
2:52
they put on against the Raiders. So that was
2:54
great. But for the five turnovers, for the field
2:58
positions, wasted opportunities, dropped catches,
3:02
poor decisions from Herbert. Jack, where do you
3:04
want to start? Yeah, I know. Let's just start
3:11
with the offense. That was a noise worth clipping.
3:17
Well, essentially, you know, Alistair, you can
3:19
talk about five, you know, we, we generated five
3:22
turnovers and we almost got there. We're up 13
3:24
10, but the fact is, is that we were promised
3:27
the world with Mike McDaniel. Mike McDaniel is
3:30
getting paid quite a lot of money. Harbaugh's
3:32
getting paid quite a lot of money. We expect
3:34
a little more out of them and the organization.
3:36
The fact that we only had three points off of
3:39
those five takeaways directly, and we were one
3:42
and four in the red zone, whereas Buffalo went
3:45
three and four. I just, how can a Harbaugh, Harbaugh
3:51
led team with McDaniels as the offensive coordinator
3:54
go with four empty change positions? It just,
3:57
it just baffles me. Herbert still looks completely
4:01
lost most of the time. The way that he's just
4:05
sometimes going off to do the handoffs, the fake
4:07
handoffs, it looks all wrong. He's slinging it.
4:10
He's trying to get it in. Uh, I just think, yes,
4:14
you can say that we were close and things like
4:16
that, but I can't remember seeing a five to one
4:20
turnover edge and a hardball led team not, you
4:24
know, take advantage of that. And that's what
4:26
worries me the most because everything went right.
4:30
Everything went right except the offense and
4:34
that is very, very worrying given the status
4:40
of Mike McDaniel. I don't think it's really improved
4:43
personally over three weeks, but that's just
4:45
me. I agree with that. I think where I'm coming
4:48
from is if the offense is this bad and disjointed,
4:51
they only need to improve 20%. 25 % to suddenly
4:55
be winning some of these games. They could not
4:57
be playing worse in terms of the penalties pre
5:00
-snap and post -snap, the drops that you alluded
5:03
to Andy. Herbert's never strung together three
5:05
games as badly in Aroney's career. In my opinion,
5:08
the team, the last time the team scored fewer
5:10
than 20 points, three games in a row was back
5:12
in 2023 under Brandon Staley towards the end
5:15
of the year and Eastern Stick came in as quarterback.
5:17
These are three games to start the season with
5:20
Justin Herbert and mostly all of your weapons,
5:24
healthy and available. We were promised the world
5:26
and we're, yeah, we're seeing some of the worst
5:29
quality football I can recall seeing from the
5:31
charges, Andy. And you know, the first question
5:34
is, Did Harbaugh just stuff up the management
5:36
of the offseason program? Did they completely
5:39
screw up how long it was going to take to embed
5:41
this system? Well, I think there's been a multitude
5:47
of issues that have, I guess, delayed that. And
5:50
that's look at the personnel that we're running
5:53
out with at the minute. The injury list is continuously
5:55
growing. But look, the rotating door at guard
6:00
has failed because we're almost out of doors
6:03
with who's left. with our Seeker out as well.
6:08
A door might play better. But to answer your
6:11
question, man, I think they have. I think they've
6:14
underestimated a lot of things that they were
6:19
quite sure about. Guard not being an important
6:22
kind of position said loosely, right? And just
6:29
the way that they're going to go about it, we're
6:32
seeing just simple, like what should be Simple
6:36
errors we're seeing in crucial moments like just
6:39
killing drives ultimately killing games and it's
6:44
just it's widespread across the offense it's
6:47
almost poisonous in a way. Andy you're being
6:50
too kind. It is a complete and utter failure
6:53
of not only Harbaugh and McDaniel but also of
6:56
Hortiz. I'm not going to be like a McDaniel press
7:00
conference where I'm going to beat around the
7:02
bush for five minutes to get to my answer. They've
7:04
failed. You have failed. Jim Harbaugh, you have
7:06
failed. McDaniel, you have failed. Joe Hortiz,
7:09
you have failed to get the team prepared for
7:12
the season. Okay. Clearly when Beardish went
7:15
down, you could tell that they were crestfallen.
7:18
When you prepare and put so much hope onto one
7:21
person, then you fail in, in, in, in my. In my
7:25
opinion, you're failing. Uh, McDaniel, you had
7:28
to have known how much you've, you've installed
7:30
many offenses. Now you've got all this experience.
7:32
You've come in and you're going to try different
7:33
stuff. It's so far failed. Harbour. I don't know
7:38
what oversight you have or what you're doing,
7:40
but clearly there are players that are not ready
7:42
to play. They don't, they're, they're physically
7:45
Ben Herbert. great if you're doing a great job
7:47
in the bloody, uh, in, in, in the gym, you know,
7:50
there are always videos of them getting sweaty
7:52
and looking good, but clearly the mind is not
7:54
there, uh, because it is just completely and
7:57
utterly broken. And I don't really think that
8:00
McDaniel has adjusted his system to Justin Herbert
8:02
right now, Alistair. I think, I think that Justin
8:07
Herbert is adapting to Mike McDaniel system because
8:11
How did you say and what is the fairest way to
8:14
judge Justin Herbert in this game and where do
8:17
you apportion that interception which essentially
8:20
kind of killed the game I must admit it's it
8:22
was a killer Tom Brady called a meatball sub
8:25
I called it many other things when I watched
8:28
it. What is going on with with with Justin Herbert
8:31
in this Mike McDaniel system. He's not saying
8:35
the field it's as simple as that. You point out
8:38
that play there with three turnover where the
8:40
place in this game he got away with two of them
8:42
the first one he tries to hit in gold on the
8:44
wheel route and Max Hairston is basically in
8:47
the end zone. Herbert just didn't look where
8:50
the ball was supposed to go was to Quentin Johnston
8:51
on the first read who was open and Herbert didn't
8:53
throw it because he doesn't trust the timing
8:55
or he doesn't trust Quentin Johnston I wouldn't
8:57
either and then we're forgetting that he threw
9:00
a red zone pick as well to Chauncey Gardner Johnston
9:02
Johnston we just forget about that but it's a
9:04
defensive holding Herbert didn't know that. That's
9:07
another red zone interception. And then the one
9:08
you called out with the meatball sub Tom Brady,
9:11
the center of the field safety never moved. It
9:13
wasn't a post snap disguise. He just never saw
9:15
it. So yeah, there's a lot going wrong with this
9:20
systematically. And part of me feels sorry for
9:23
McDaniel because I do see the plays on tape where
9:26
I go, well, that's where the ball's meant to
9:27
go and it's open and Herbert hasn't thrown it.
9:29
And then he looks and then he checks and then
9:32
he runs around like a headless chook, but that
9:34
ultimately is on coaching. That means there's
9:36
a disconnect between what McDaniel wants, what
9:39
Herbert is seeing. There's a communication breakdown.
9:41
I totally agree. I'm seeing, I'm seeing some
9:45
attempts to problem solve, right? You do get
9:48
a read option from Herbert and then you suddenly
9:50
get a roll out and then you'll see an attempted
9:52
screen pass. And then, so, so you're seeing attempts
9:56
to problem solve, but I mean, money Smith said
9:59
it. on charges weekly like what is your main
10:02
dish you've got all of these sides you some potatoes
10:06
some asparagus and pumpkin but what is your steak
10:08
what's the bread and butter of this offense and
10:10
it seems like there's not a coherent game plan
10:13
across the court across four quarters Andy that's
10:16
why sometimes the games in the scripted section
10:19
the plays in the scripted part of the game plan
10:21
seem okay work yes yep you're getting a touchdown
10:25
on that first drive right The players know what
10:27
they're doing because they've practiced it. The
10:29
moment, the moment they get out of the system,
10:31
that is, that is quintessential. You're teaching
10:35
and you're teaching, you're teaching to the test.
10:36
You're not teaching for application and adaptability.
10:38
It's a failure. Yeah. And Andy, what do I mean
10:41
on that? What, what do you think about, uh, McDaniel's
10:44
ability to call plays outside of the first 20
10:46
plays? What are you saying? Uh, I'm saying, uh,
10:52
thorough inconsistency. between the play calling,
10:55
the game management, the identity. Brady again,
10:59
I actually thought he called it a good game.
11:01
He said, uh, charges, second and one second and
11:06
goal at the one. And all Brady said is I want
11:08
to see some harbor smash mouth football. What's
11:11
happened with that? Where's that gone? Have we
11:13
just packed it in because the interior online
11:17
is a shambles because they just showed it arms
11:20
and let it alone. You're saying. Decisions be
11:24
made, I think it was after maybe one of the interceptions.
11:29
It was like they just conceded they were getting
11:31
three points. It was run, run, run and field
11:35
goal. And fourth and three with an ability to
11:38
kind of put your foot down, not, you know, put
11:41
Buffalo to the sword. They're always going to
11:43
come back and play four quarters of football.
11:45
Well, it was a third and five, Andy, and it was
11:47
a running play. And Brady said, that's interesting.
11:50
Usually if you call a run on third and five,
11:53
it's because there's been an agreement between
11:54
the OC and the head coach that we're going for
11:56
it on fourth. Exactly. Is that a miscommunication
12:00
or is that just McDaniel thinking, I want to
12:01
run the ball on third and five after two runs
12:03
on first and second down? I do not know. It sucks.
12:07
And not consider what we're going to do on fourth
12:09
down or like surely he'd have to have an idea
12:12
that Jim probably just wants the point. So if
12:16
you're going to You know, kind of grind the team
12:18
into that or the offense into that position.
12:20
Jim's going to go, okay, out of your hands. We're
12:22
kicking the field goal. Uh, and Andy, I just
12:28
don't know what the identity of this, this offense
12:31
is. Like Al said, I don't know what the, the,
12:34
the main course is. It's, it's, it's, it's not
12:37
like it's tricky, Dickie. It's tricky, Dickie
12:39
shit, Andy. Yeah. It's tricky, Dickie. And you
12:41
know what that little throw touch pass to Kate
12:44
Mitchell, that almost failed miserably for that
12:48
touchdown. And then we saw not that long ago
12:50
where it's all worked once. Let's try it again.
12:52
Yep. What are you doing? That's an, that's an
12:56
end zone play. And why would you try it again
12:59
in midfield? I mean, everyone's going to give
13:02
Lord, it's to keep Mitchell and say he's had
13:03
a great game, but you're right. I just, the thing
13:06
is it's like you go into English class, you expect
13:08
to be taught English and then you'd been taught
13:09
a bit of maths, a bit of science, and then you
13:11
talk a bit of history. Then you go back to English.
13:13
It just, I, Alistair, you said it right. It's
13:17
just disjointed and there's no coherency. And
13:19
then I fall back to then what is Harbour doing?
13:23
We're paying this guy a heck of a lot of money
13:25
to be the connector, to be the gel, to be the
13:27
CEO, to be the massage, you know, like, oh, you
13:30
know, I'll mentor you. I'll make sure everything's
13:32
working. And you've had a whole off season to
13:35
do this. Hey. Coaches don't have any time management.
13:39
They don't have to earn. They don't only have
13:41
two hours in the office. You've got all summer,
13:43
man. You've known this. You've known what you're
13:46
going to do. I'm now going, well, what is the
13:49
point of Harbor? What is the point? Because you
13:52
need to take control. See Rex was at Rex Ryan
13:54
being like, he's got to start calling the office.
13:56
The guys never caught offense in his life. I'm
13:58
not saying that, but that was a terrible, terrible
14:00
comment for a pundit to say, but I just how How,
14:06
how can this happen? Or Alistair is QJ, Trey
14:11
Harris, the guards, the talent is just not good
14:14
enough. And now we're back at Greg Roman and
14:16
all of that. And now we're back at Greg Roman
14:18
and it's like, well, I could only do what I could
14:20
do with what I had. Sorry guys. That's loser
14:23
behavior. It is. Well, here's the issue. The
14:25
issue is that the main dish. Doesn't taste very
14:29
good. I'll tell you what the main dish is. The
14:30
main dish is Andy and I out at a holiday house
14:32
where we've actually had three bottles of Blanc
14:34
and we've left the ribeye in the oven for an
14:37
hour too long and then we go, oh fuck. The main
14:41
dish is McDaniel thinks Harbaugh wants to run
14:43
the ball like a maniac, okay? The charges rank
14:46
30th in pass rate over expected. What that means
14:49
is when an average NFL offense passes the ball
14:52
based on that down and distance, the charges
14:54
are 8 .5 % less likely to pass in that situation.
14:58
So they want to run, run, run. Here's the bit
15:01
that's screwed. McDaniel wants to live in 21
15:05
personnel and 22 personnel, right? The charges
15:08
usage of a fullback ranks second overall in the
15:12
NFL. This is an Alec in gold offense. The problem
15:16
is when they run that personnel grouping with
15:19
a fullback on the field, they rank 29th in EPA
15:22
per play whenever any other team runs that grouping.
15:26
So you're running it the second most in the league
15:28
and you're the 29th best at it. So you got to
15:33
throw that in the bin. There are two people killing
15:35
this offense. It's Alec Ingold and it's Cole
15:38
Strange. The two guys he bought in from Miami
15:41
who knew meant to know the offense. I can't block
15:43
anyone. And Alec Ingold's a lovely guy, but he's
15:46
lunging into all of his blocks and he's whiffing
15:48
on them. And Cole Strange, the less said, the
15:50
better. The guy is hopeless. So the team needs
15:53
to make it stand. So we're not going to tolerate
15:55
this a right guard. Out you go. I can't believe
15:57
I'm saying this. Scott Matlock might be a better
15:59
option at fullback. God help us all. But something's
16:03
got to give, you're going to have to make some
16:04
more spread offense, 11 personnel, 10 personnel,
16:07
because the 21 and 22, Andy, it's just not working
16:10
consistently enough. You're getting to third
16:12
down too often and oftentimes it's third and
16:14
long. And then what chance does Justin Herbert
16:16
have with this collection of receivers that outside
16:19
like McConkey, really none of them can do anything.
16:23
Yeah. You watch the tape, man. So you definitely
16:27
would see a lot of those sort of under the cover.
16:31
snaps of Alec Ingold. And by that, I mean, you
16:33
know, in blocking sets and things like that,
16:36
or being, you know, the fourth read and not used.
16:40
So fair play. But that's a big call to suggest
16:43
that Scott Matlock might be an improvement at
16:46
fullback over Alec Ingold. There's a question
16:48
that flows from this really, and I might ask
16:50
it to ask it to you, Andy. When you see this
16:54
this collection of receivers, should the charges
16:56
of re -signed Keenan Allen do just have six catches
16:59
for 63 yards and a touchdown? Over the weekend
17:02
for the Colts. And a felony. He's had one DUI.
17:09
He's had one DUI. Gadsden's had one PBU. Oh man,
17:16
absolutely. But honestly, like I'd feel better
17:19
about this offence if Lad McConkey had Keenan
17:22
Allen. At least Herbert has confidence that this
17:24
guy can maybe catch a back shoulder throw if
17:26
you throw a twin. Just catch a ball, like. Just
17:29
catch a ball. Gadsden had multiple strikes on
17:32
the day. Just one stupid drop. Just while we're
17:35
getting into the receiving group. Gadsden man.
17:40
Yeah. Sorry. Um, Quinton Johnson, I just, I've
17:45
literally just got no words to say anymore on
17:49
him. His hands are just absolutely painted on.
17:52
Uh, so yeah, Kenan Allen in hindsight, uh, would
17:56
have been at least a reliable catcher of the
17:59
ball and a guy that could get us closer to moving
18:02
the chains because the drops that we're like,
18:06
I think we're all pretty, pretty well on the
18:09
same page that there's something going on with
18:12
Justin Herbert and he is a culprit in the sort
18:16
of the offense at the minute. Maybe not as much
18:21
as Mike McDaniel and what's going on with the
18:23
coaches, but And there are just some huge play
18:27
the huge downs where guys just a drop in the
18:30
football and we're kicking the ball and we're
18:32
just handing over possession. It's absolutely
18:34
killing us. And those ones aren't on Herbert.
18:37
Like he's still in this game. He's made, he's
18:39
made two ridiculous throws. The one across his
18:41
body to Trey Harris, the whole shot to Lad McConkey
18:44
on third and 15. It's almost like when he just
18:47
has to play naturally without overthinking it.
18:49
That's when the real Herbert's coming out. I
18:51
just wish we weren't doing it on the last drive
18:53
of the game, down 10 points airing it out a little
18:55
bit. It would be nice if we did it earlier in
18:57
the game instead of getting choked up. Oh yeah,
18:59
we'll take the field goal. Oh, we'll try a field
19:01
goal instead of going for it on fourth and three
19:03
where we've got a lead. Oh, we missed the field
19:06
goal. Damn. Oh, we'll take another field goal
19:07
on fourth and three. Where are your balls? And
19:11
then being forced to go for it on fourth and
19:12
10 and then being forced to go for it on fourth
19:15
on fourth and 10 late in the game. It's just
19:18
embarrassing. That was the wrong time to go conservative
19:21
to go aggressive. It's, it's, um, I mean, yeah,
19:25
they kind of had to, to, to win, to, to, you
19:29
know, come close to winning, give themselves
19:31
a shot. Uh, Yeah, just do we have anything positive
19:36
to say about the the offense because I've looked
19:39
at my notes I've got maybe two things Getting
19:42
Travis Burke on the field. I thought was good
19:44
experimentation nine snaps And when he actually
19:46
went out there he contributed as a wing tight
19:49
end and linked to that the actual running game
19:52
down to down They're working on it right 24 carries
19:57
a hundred and fourteen yards four point seven
19:59
five yards a carry It looks like McDaniel has
20:02
worked out even though it's a bit predictable
20:03
now He's running gap runs with Hampton and he's
20:06
running zone runs with Keaton Mitchell now I
20:08
know you don't want to be too predictable and
20:10
he does change it up But at least I can see him
20:13
trying to make things work But maybe I'm being
20:17
too generous Jack. I'm okay. Maybe it's a results
20:20
driven business And the results are what they
20:22
are fewer than 20 points, three weeks in a row.
20:25
I just can't believe that we tried to convince
20:29
ourselves. Do you remember the podcast when we
20:30
said, Oh, God's don't matter guys. God's don't
20:33
matter. It's all right. We've got it. We've got
20:35
all pro tackles. We've got Joe, we've got a racial
20:38
and Slater who by the way, Joel had a really
20:41
good game bounce back from Crosby. That was a
20:42
positive for me. He played really well and Slater
20:45
tends to be a solid there. Unfortunately, it
20:49
was his worst game, but it's still solid. Unfortunately,
20:55
Jake Slaughter very much struggled against the
20:57
interior pass rush as well, but he's not getting
21:00
any help from Trevor Penning. He's not getting
21:02
any help from Cole Strange. And again, we still
21:07
have the, the, the interior, whether we're running
21:10
it or whether we're passing is still just so,
21:13
so, so porous. And I'm almost obliged to say
21:16
that I'm going to say the right guard play is
21:18
possibly worse than last year. Like we're sitting
21:21
here in week three. I'd like, can we get, can
21:24
we get Becton back? Like, or can we just put
21:27
Trey Pipkins in there if he's healthy? Um, and
21:30
Trevor Penning is, is just not, is just not it
21:32
either. So. Well, let me ask you, I was just
21:37
while we're on the guard situation is, would
21:39
it be the worst thing in the world to see like
21:40
a Logan Taylor come in? I have a cold strange.
21:43
Is that a stupid call considering we're getting
21:47
bugger or consistency with personnel? You cannot
21:50
play worse than Cole Strange did really in this
21:53
three week stretch. So I'm all for putting anyone
21:56
there. The thing is this team's best offensive
21:58
line would involve Slater playing guard for the
22:01
first time, basically forever, getting Travis
22:03
Burke to right tackle and Gerrard to left tackle.
22:06
No one wants to say that. No one wants to tolerate
22:08
it because of Slater's salary. If you just want
22:10
to pick the five guys who will make our offense
22:12
the best, Trust me, it's Slater as a guard and
22:16
Burke and Olt because those guys are in our best
22:17
five offensive linemen. But what does it say?
22:20
What does it say, Andy, that the two guys, and
22:23
we alluded to it before, what does it say? And
22:26
have we ever thought about the confidence that
22:28
we actually have in Mike, Mike, me, Jenny, he
22:30
goes out and signs his two guys, Cole Strange
22:33
and Alec Ingold, and Alistair has actually pointed
22:35
them out and saying they are the two worst players
22:38
on the offense at the moment. What does that
22:41
say? Like how does, how does that male Gadsden
22:43
ran 32 routes and didn't even touch the ball.
22:45
So I don't know what you can do, but how does
22:48
that make you feel? How does that make you feel
22:49
about Mike McDaniel now? Uh, yeah, it's, um,
22:55
it's going to want to improve cause it's aging
22:57
milk in the sun. Yeah. It's not looking good
23:04
at all. It's not feeling any of with confidence.
23:09
It can't be filling the team with confidence,
23:11
surely. Surely there's got to be some doubt.
23:13
There's got to be something like, you brought
23:16
these guys in and they're hot trash. What you're
23:20
trying to do isn't working. Herbert, like you
23:23
put it so well Al, when Herbert looks to play
23:26
naturally, play Herbert's game, he just sees
23:29
everything and it's like his foot, McDaniel's
23:32
footwork is like... cut off half his vision or
23:35
something and half his brain. And he's just making
23:37
horrible decisions. Like those three turnover
23:40
-worthy players, as you said, that's just, that's
23:43
not. It's like he's got big goggles. It's not
23:45
just the footwork as well. I want to say, because
23:48
footwork is getting mentioned a lot, right? And
23:53
there aren't that many plays where I watch and
23:55
go, Hey, the footwork looks terrible. There are
23:57
some Jack, you're right. The ones like with the,
24:00
sometimes there's a random spin play action and
24:02
you think that looks wrong. There are ones where
24:05
he gets back and it looks really good, usually
24:07
when he's throwing to the flat. The thing I think
24:09
he's really struggling with in this offense is
24:11
because McDaniel uses so much motion. Him and
24:14
Shanahan are really weird where quite often at
24:16
the snap, two eligible receivers are behind the
24:20
line of scrimmage. That's not normal and JTO
24:23
Sullivan on the QB school heavily criticizes
24:25
that he says I don't see the point of having
24:27
guys run from five yards into the backfield out
24:30
into the route McDaniel does that because he
24:33
wants to have multiple layers He wants to have
24:34
two guys deep one guy intermediate and then two
24:37
guys who are behind just basically running and
24:39
being short options Herb, it's never using those
24:42
to use them all the time Most of to his throws
24:45
came at or behind the line of scrimmage. It's
24:47
gross football But it's kind of how it works
24:51
in this game. It's about getting it out super
24:53
quick. And if Herbert isn't going to start doing
24:55
that, Quentin Johnston and the guys running the
24:58
downfield riots, they're just not reliable enough.
25:01
So he's going to get caught holding the ball
25:02
in sacks. So, so, so then Alistair, I go back
25:05
to my, my, my original question is that is Mike
25:09
McDaniel making this game for Justin Herbert?
25:12
Cause clearly what you just said, it's, it's,
25:13
it's not. So it's a tour scheme. There's been
25:16
no choice. So so all that has been lip service
25:20
at which a bit from from from three weeks in
25:23
and again I mean I know I keep harking on it
25:25
but I just think it's an organizational failure
25:27
it's just anyway one good point I did have a
25:30
minute to try Harris are we happy with his performance
25:32
I think he looked okay or is it just or is it
25:35
just a bit of lip service and he kind of like
25:38
junk time fluff yeah. had had that good catch.
25:41
That was a good throw and he was open and he
25:43
caught it. And the good catch was an incredible
25:45
route, to be honest. That is a blaze out. He
25:48
made the corner spin. But if you're looking at
25:51
down to down consistency, mate, I'm watching
25:53
a guy most of the time, Herbert's looking and
25:55
he's running down the field and getting no separation
25:57
on the corner. Yeah. Okay then. Well, that was
26:00
my, that, that was my positive. So that's a negative.
26:03
That's about it. I should have done that. We
26:08
were so excited. Joe Alts is the obvious positive.
26:12
He reversed it. Yeah, except the penalties are
26:13
starting to piss me off. Yeah, yeah. He's doing
26:16
that a bit. We were so excited. We were so excited
26:19
guys about the Mike McDaniel hire. Before we
26:22
flick onto the defense. Jack, do you, in your
26:26
heart of hearts, do you see this improving? We
26:31
do know that Herbert and McDaniel are intelligent
26:34
people. I think we all think. We have to wait
26:39
for my teachable moment for that one. Maybe you
26:41
can hold off. We'll ask you then Andy, do you
26:45
see from the glimpses of either cool play call
26:49
or good individual play, do you have hope that
26:52
they're going to figure this out over the course
26:54
of the season? I do have hope that they'll figure
26:57
it out. I think all the pieces are there is just
27:00
a really It's just a real jumbled mess at the
27:03
moment. And there are certain things, certain
27:06
like key avenues to this or this machine that
27:09
are just not firing and not aligned. So I do
27:13
think that they can, uh, but there's, there's
27:16
a fair bit to sort out. Um, yeah, I am eager
27:21
to hear of Jack's moment later. It's dropped
27:26
it in there. Over to, I don't actually, uh, I
27:30
don't have anything really positive to say about
27:33
the offense, but how fucked are we without a
27:35
tight end? Like just before we move over to the
27:38
defense. Because Gadsden is like a scarecrow,
27:43
just standing out in the field, shooing away
27:44
birds and fucky rucky causing penalties. So get
27:53
Patty, get Patty Herb in there. Yeah. I couldn't
27:59
tell you which one it was. I just needed that
28:01
little, that little bit of wind. Rucci blocked
28:06
all right, mate. I wouldn't mind a bit more Rucci.
28:07
I'd rather him on the field than Cole stranger.
28:09
Tell you that much. It's like a wish is Tucker
28:12
Fisk. All right. Over to the defense. Okay. Good
28:17
outing. Here we can be positive. I'll take it
28:20
away. Chris O 'Leary has shown himself to improve
28:23
week on week. He's forgotten. He's thrown blitzing
28:26
in the bin. We're down at 22 % this week. Notwithstanding
28:30
that still pressured Alan on almost 40 % of his
28:33
drop backs so we're not listing and we're getting
28:35
pressure the coverage shell was tied up we just
28:38
went back to playing good old fashioned quarters
28:40
coverage and a bit of cover six just like me
28:44
to does just like mike mcdonald does he said
28:47
i'm not gonna get too cute i wanna go back to
28:49
what we're doing last year. The handful of times
28:52
they played man coverage, they basically got
28:54
burnt. That deep hook route to DJ Moore on tarp,
28:58
he'd steal for about 12 to 15 yards. That was
29:00
one of the few times they played man. So between
29:03
the 20s, a lot of quarters, the run defense wall,
29:06
we'll get to that. It was good in the first half.
29:10
And then what earlier did that was very clever
29:12
is in the red zone, at least in the first half,
29:14
he changed up the picture on one play. He sent
29:17
a six man pressure man coverage behind it. That's
29:20
where Dante Jackson got that left fist in for
29:22
the pass breakup. And on the next down rushes
29:25
three drops eight Brian Flores style and Josh
29:28
Allen scrambled. And that's the one where we
29:30
thought, Oh, he should have just scrambled and
29:31
he kind of just threw it into nowhere. But that's
29:34
because you've changed the picture up on him
29:36
and suddenly he doesn't know what he's saying.
29:39
So I went from basically saying this guy doesn't
29:41
belong in the NFL after week one to week two
29:43
saying, Oh, they're getting better. It's like
29:45
every single half. They're just impressing me,
29:48
man. And this week was as good as we saw at from
29:50
Minters defense, basically at their best. I thought
29:52
Jack. Yeah, absolutely. Brady called it the discipline
29:57
cage rush. And that was something we picked out
29:59
Alistair on our. preview show is to keep Josh
30:02
Allen within the pocket. And I thought the, the
30:04
front did a fantastic job, Justin and Boyd B.
30:07
And again, every time I bring him up, everyone's
30:09
going to be like, remember you said it was a
30:11
waste of a pick. This guy's turning into something.
30:13
Pretty good, especially on those later downs
30:15
when you can put in Mesadol, Tully, Mack and
30:19
Oboigbe. That's looking pretty good, like really,
30:22
really fun. I mean, Tully, what had, he had six
30:26
pressures himself, one sack and five hurries.
30:29
Mack had a big strip sack, three hurries. Mesadol
30:33
one, one sack, Oboigbe two, Henley even had a
30:36
sack. It was really, really good. I thought the
30:39
defensive front was back and had a little bit
30:41
of that nastiness, at least in the pass rush.
30:44
Shout out Jamari Caldwell as well. His pass rush
30:47
has improved out of sight in terms of the interior.
30:51
So in terms of containing Josh Allen, I thought
30:54
O 'Leary had a brilliant plan. It was brilliant.
30:58
Really hurt when Dante Jackson got out. Maybe
31:00
we'll cover that in a second. But in terms of
31:03
the positives, I just can't, I love the way that
31:06
the front four or the front, you know, the edges.
31:09
And the defensive front played this game in the
31:12
rush, rushing the passer Andy. I think there's
31:14
a bit of a caveat we probably need to speak about
31:16
and that's James Cook on the ground, right? Yeah,
31:18
for sure. And an incredible, incredible top of
31:21
the league kind of Russia, right? Uh, the way
31:24
that he can change directions and just not lose
31:27
anything close to resembling a step. He's phenomenal.
31:30
And we, yes, we did miss Dalvin Tomlinson. They,
31:34
Joe Brady mixed it up a fair bit with, you know,
31:36
sort of outside and, and gap. Um, but he has
31:40
the speed to get to the edge, especially when
31:43
we weren't quite setting it that well. Like our
31:46
edge just weren't sort of kind of doing their
31:49
job in the run game. And I thought he was just
31:51
able to get sort of five, six, seven yards straight
31:54
up the middle as well. We did miss Delvin Tomlinson.
31:58
Um, maybe, maybe more so later in the game, like
32:00
definitely later, he, he gashed us. Absolutely.
32:04
Yeah. Yeah. I hope it was hard, but the, the
32:06
defense kept. Josh Allen off the field so much
32:10
in that first half that it's kind of, it's just
32:13
little tidbits, a small sample space, if you
32:15
will. Uh, yeah, overall good, but look, one knock
32:20
I'll have is I reckon every NFL show has talked
32:25
about Josh Allen, uh, on short yardage sneaks
32:30
going into the left B and C gap. Uh, and there
32:33
was one, pretty sure he rushed it and they stopped
32:37
him. Um, on a third and one, and then he eventually
32:42
got it on fourth and one. I could be wrong, but
32:45
there was definitely a short yardage stop, but
32:47
then they sort of went away from it and, you
32:49
know, he scored two touchdowns. That way took
32:51
the game out of our hands. So probably just my
32:54
one knock, but you look, it's hard to, it's hard
32:57
to stop some big fellas on that Bill's line.
33:00
That'd be my only critique. I think if you, if
33:04
you saw James Cook stat line, Without watching
33:08
the game 24 154 touchdown 6 .4 yards per carry
33:12
and then watch the tape as the coach of the defense
33:15
You'd feel much better than those stats because
33:17
I feel like a lot That's a few of those really
33:20
three or four runs Where are we screwed that
33:24
one with a wine back to 13 personnel the strong
33:26
side It was just a handful of these runs. I thought
33:29
for large portions of the game especially the
33:32
first three quarters They did a pretty good job
33:35
making up for Tomlinson's effort and I do want
33:37
to call out the linebacker play Del Sean Phillips,
33:39
Dayon Henley in particular. I thought this was
33:42
Dayon's best game since the flu game against
33:45
Las Vegas last year. He was really, really good
33:48
in this game, which is excellent to see from
33:51
Dayon Henley. You said it both really well. James
33:54
Cook is just one of the most special. High -impact
33:58
great vision running backs who just glides across
34:00
the turf and sometimes it's just too good and
34:02
he makes a play and he hits a gap you almost
34:04
couldn't see but if I was O 'Leary it's it's
34:07
an area from improvement but not an area for
34:10
concern might be the way I'd phrase it Jack.
34:13
But I mean. You've done everything you've put
34:15
your you've taken the ball away five times. So
34:18
yes, you look at that in I reckon in 99 % of
34:21
guy other games earlier. He goes, I've had a
34:23
great day. You know what? I wanted to stop as
34:25
I wanted to stop Josh Allen's legs. I wanted
34:27
to stop Josh Allen through the air. And then
34:29
you know what? Let James Cook beat us. And I'm
34:31
pretty sure that's what we said was a key to
34:34
victory as well. Let James Cook do it. Unfortunately,
34:37
it's just, you've got one team who was complimentary.
34:41
You've got one team who's, who's complimentary
34:43
football where, you know what? Alan's not having
34:45
a great day. We do have someone else and we do
34:48
have a, we do have a second card up our sleeve.
34:50
We can do something and eventually we'll grind
34:52
you down. That's the, that's, that's how I look
34:56
at it. And at the end, it was kind of like, we
34:58
did everything to win, but it was kind of like
35:00
a, I don't know, like Batman escaping the joker
35:03
and the joker would just like put a little like
35:05
flash. flash ball and a puff of smoke. And then
35:07
he just disappears and Batman's there looking
35:09
like, where did you go? Uh, or Josh Allen pulls
35:12
that fourth and seven out of his anus like, and
35:16
we can, and we can talk about it now, Jack, Rodney
35:20
Shelley got picked on in this game and such an
35:22
underrated part of the NFL is how teams capitalize
35:25
on starters getting injured in the middle of
35:27
the game. The Bills lost to starting cornerback
35:29
in this game. And as you called it, Alistair,
35:31
and you called it, you called it, you called
35:34
it. We got our chance on Nick, but I actually
35:38
called the flea flicker before we ran the flea
35:40
flicker. I've gone something's all these early
35:43
down runs. We're going to see a flea flicker
35:45
or something. Anyway, it got me nowhere in particular,
35:49
but in this game, they went after Rodney Shelley.
35:52
He was at fault on the 37 yard pass to Keon Coleman.
35:56
He was at fault on the DJ more catch trying to
35:59
trail in man across the field. And then this,
36:02
this basically ruined the game, right? Alan completes
36:05
that fourth and seven I've got no idea how he
36:07
did that then the bills have a series of penalties
36:10
and find themselves in second and 26 and Rodney
36:15
Shelley is holding a guy 25 yards away from the
36:18
action and I'm watching it on the or 22 he's
36:21
holding him by the Jersey all the way into the
36:23
end zone the balls at the other side of the field
36:26
like Maybe this is coaching too, cause Dean Leonard
36:30
played in this game on special team. So that
36:32
might've been a bit of an error. They trusted
36:34
the UDFA who, uh, yeah, did sweet effort. And
36:39
Alistair sneaky or any of before, before, before
36:43
you, I throw to you, maybe talk about Genesis
36:45
Smith, um, sneaky little stat that I found is
36:48
that Buffalo receivers gained 116 of their 204
36:51
passing yards after the catch. So that shows
36:55
is that when it happened and when the breakdowns
36:58
occurred, clearly the first tackle wasn't there
37:01
and they were in space. Interesting, interesting,
37:05
interesting, interesting. But one of the rookies,
37:07
Andy had an awesome day and it was great to see.
37:10
I'm going to do it. I'm going to pull you right
37:12
here and say, I'm going to talk about him in
37:14
our next segment. But yes, keen to discuss Genesis
37:22
Smith. Yeah, Rodney Shelley really really tested
37:26
my patience. That's for sure. That was a trial
37:29
by fire and he got he got lit up Big concerns.
37:33
We will discuss this in our preview show with
37:37
the concussion protocol of Dante Jackson But
37:40
massively noticeable and he left the field Yeah,
37:46
sort of seeing the leadership and I think a lot
37:49
of the the growth of the defensive backs comes
37:51
through him this year, so we'll see how that
37:55
goes. Al, do you know off the top of your head,
37:56
if he's in the protocol, is he just flat out
37:58
missing week four? I don't know if it's a compulsory
38:01
minimum. I don't, I think you can be in the protocol
38:03
and come back within the one week. Listeners
38:06
can correct me in the comments. Um, before we
38:10
head to our awards, I do have long -term concern
38:15
with the super like uber conservative or just
38:18
inconsistent Jim Harbaugh approach to game management.
38:22
I think it's because I think it shows up in games
38:24
like this. Our friend Alex Sinsdorf posted this.
38:27
By NFL next gen stats, they've got fourth down
38:31
what they say recommended go for it. Right? Last
38:34
year, Harbaugh went for it in recommended go
38:39
for it scenarios, only 50 % of the time, which
38:42
is the second lowest in the league. Through three
38:45
weeks, and next gen stats say the charges have
38:49
not gone for it once on any of their recommended
38:52
go for it fourth down opportunities. That super
38:55
conservative style of play, I think works when
38:58
you go into the game as a favorite, or you have
39:01
a really good defense like a top five defense.
39:05
When you go into a game as almost two score dogs
39:09
away from home, you need to Against Josh Allen,
39:14
you need to increase that variance a bit. When
39:16
you've got momentum and your defense hands you
39:18
the ball of the 30, you've got a choice. Do I
39:21
take three here and go from a 10 point lead to
39:23
a 13 point lead? Or do I try to make it a 17
39:26
point lead by scoring a touchdown? We just let
39:29
them hang around in this game, Jack. And I think
39:31
we've got to be honest with ourselves. The whole
39:34
time, we thought Josh Allen was going to come
39:36
back in this game, didn't we? Because we never
39:38
made the margin more than 10 points. Not going
39:41
to count. I wonder as well how much of a sort
39:46
of a cat amongst the pigeons. I sort of dug a
39:50
little deep for this, but Alistair and Andy have
39:52
a guess at how much or how many negative points
39:56
APA was the Herbert interception. Can you have
40:00
a guess about what they've credited him? So that
40:03
one interception. Yeah, I can. It'd have to be
40:05
like negative 6 .8 or something, wouldn't it?
40:08
I'm going to go more. I'm going to say is 7 .4.
40:11
Can it be Andy was closest it's negative point
40:15
five eight two and returned for like forty one
40:18
years negative it's almost negative six negative
40:21
six so when that stuff happens maybe it just
40:26
starts you know you meant to be the he's meant
40:28
to be the guy all of a sudden McDaniel starts
40:30
flipping out what's going on it becomes the sideline
40:33
staring off into the distance not at Madison
40:35
but. I don't know, another Bills fan, probably
40:38
a middle -aged man wearing a stupid costume.
40:41
And then Harboils walk around going, what's going
40:43
on? So maybe he was just a complete capitulation.
40:47
And again, maybe the question is, what is Harboils
40:51
use? What is the use of Harboil? If there's all
40:54
this data out there, there's a suggested go for
40:57
it and he's only going for 50, but then we go
40:58
for and then we do this. We take points like
41:02
it. It just doesn't matter when you're playing
41:05
against Josh Allen or a really good team or just
41:09
a, yeah, I'm sorry. I've, I've now lost it because
41:11
I'm now depressed again, Andy. I'm sorry. This
41:15
is killing me. This is killing me. Save the emotional
41:18
energy for the teachable. How about, how about
41:21
me just taking over a post and saying onto the
41:23
awards fucking I'm on the naughty list. Sorry,
41:26
man. Um, but do we go my yeah. Yeah. Nah. Award
41:29
first host. If you please. All right. I'm going
41:33
to say straight up who's getting the yarn. Yeah.
41:35
Nah, what it's Quentin motherfucking Johnston.
41:37
All right. The charges said, yeah. Yeah. We'll
41:47
draft you a pick 21 ahead of Zay Flowers and
41:50
Jordan Addison. Yeah, we'll ignore your numerous
41:52
shortcomings and continue to highlight your minimal
41:55
strengths publicly. Hey, yeah, we'll pick up
41:57
your fifth year option for no reason other than
42:00
to boost your confidence and guarantee you $18
42:02
million in 2027. That's all the yeah, yeah, yeah,
42:06
right? Well, guess what? This week in Buffalo,
42:09
Quentin Johnson said a big fat nah. He said,
42:12
nah, I won't repay your faith. Nah, I won't.
42:15
put my hands up to catch the ball against the
42:17
CB4. Nah, I won't catch the ball on third down
42:20
that you throw directly into my chest, Justin
42:23
Herbert, to give us a chance to win the game.
42:25
Nah, I'm not good enough to play in the NFL at
42:27
a consistent level. He's a wide receiver, three
42:30
on a bad team, a wide receiver, four on a good
42:33
team, and on a great team he wouldn't get one
42:35
snap. Quentin Johnston, I'm over it. Amen. Yep.
42:42
Amen. Now onto a positive note. Jack spilled
42:45
the beans a little bit. My nah yeah award. Apologies.
42:48
There would have been a few ways I could have
42:50
gone with this almost. Most members of the defense
42:53
were definitely a bit nah last week and the week
42:56
before and a bit more yeah this week. But in
42:59
the beginning God created Earth and then he created
43:02
Genesis Smith. Torched in week two with a rating
43:08
of 158 .3 when targeted by Kirk Cousins. This
43:13
week, not only did he record his first career
43:15
interception, he did so against the reigning
43:17
MVP Josh Allen, who coming into the game, zero
43:21
interceptions, zero turnovers. He doubled down
43:25
on ensuing defensive snaps and showed incredible
43:28
body control to contort and contest that. And
43:31
with the appropriate amount of luck, come down
43:35
with the football against DJ Moore. So for those
43:37
wondering, His passer rating when targeted this
43:41
week it was 12 .5 nah motherfucking yeah Genesis
43:45
keep it up G. Nice nice okay. Well the teachable
43:52
moment this week. I have a hangover Jim and Mike
44:04
this one is directly targeted at you too. I've
44:10
got a little lesson for both of you. And given
44:12
your press conferences and your answers, I promise
44:15
that I will get to the point quickly. There's
44:19
a concept in education called cognitive load
44:22
theory, and it's actually developed by an Australian
44:24
educational psychologist, John Sweller. Shout
44:26
out to him. Essentially, our working memory has
44:30
a limited capacity. When we overload people with
44:32
information, particularly when they're learning
44:34
something new, their ability to process that
44:36
information and apply it suffers. And You cannot
44:41
doubt this when you're watching the Chargers
44:42
offense. I can't, we can't help but wonder whether
44:46
that's exactly what we are saying. You both have
44:49
a remarkable ability to spend five minutes answering
44:52
a question without actually answering it. You
44:55
go off on tangents, introduce new ideas, and
44:58
sometimes leave us wondering what the original
45:00
question was. And you know what? Fine in a press
45:02
conference, do your thing. But is that how you're
45:05
communicating with your players? Because this
45:08
offense looks bamboozled. players appear uncertain,
45:11
assignments are being missed and the whole operation
45:13
looks disjointed. Now, another educational researcher,
45:17
Barack Rosenschein, identified several principles
45:20
on effective instruction. Among them are presenting
45:24
information in manageable steps, providing clear
45:27
explanations, modeling what success looks like
45:30
and regularly checking for understanding. Just
45:34
because you've explained something doesn't mean
45:36
you've taught it. So Jim and Mike. How are you
45:40
teaching this offense? Are you giving players
45:42
clear, manageable instructions? And here's the
45:45
question I'd really like both of you to consider.
45:47
Do you actually have clarity about what you're
45:49
trying to communicate before you start speaking?
45:52
Because if you don't have clarity yourself, how
45:55
can you possibly expect your players to have
45:57
it? Now, I'm not suggesting that we know what
46:00
goes on inside the four walls. You're the experts.
46:02
We know better than you, sure. But the performance
46:05
raised legitimate questions about how effectively
46:07
the system is being taught. You can have the
46:11
most sophisticated offensive scheme in the NFL,
46:14
but sophistication means absolutely nothing if
46:17
your players can't execute it. And this is your
46:20
lesson to take from today, Mike McDaniel and
46:22
Jim Harbaugh. The measure of good coaching isn't
46:25
how much you know, it's how effectively you can
46:29
transfer that knowledge to the people who need
46:32
it. Right now, the Chargers offense especially
46:35
looks like they've been given a 15 minute lecture,
46:38
understood none of it and been told there's an
46:40
exam on Sunday. Get better quick. Class dismissed.
46:46
Fuck off. There we go. I think I've broken Andy
47:01
and Alistair. This definitely is an explicit
47:04
episode. This one. It's only fair. It's only
47:08
fair. What are we doing? Uh, anyway, guys, I
47:14
hope you enjoyed the teachable moment. Um, Andy,
47:17
that brings us to the end of the show. Uh, I've
47:21
completely broken them guys. So thank you so
47:24
much for listening as anyways. Subscribe where
47:28
you can. The boys are going to be back later
47:31
this week with a preview show of Seattle. I'm
47:33
taking a step down this week from that one. The
47:35
feedback we're getting from you guys has been
47:37
great. We love the fact that we're giving you
47:39
more content. Please keep commenting. Please
47:42
keep showing us love. It really means a lot to
47:44
us and it really helps us get through these horrible,
47:47
horrible losses. But onto Seattle boys. And I
47:50
guess I'll be tuning into both of you in the
47:52
coming days. But other than that, bolt up, keep
47:54
together. Let's get it.