Latest / The Curve / Buy Now, Pay Later Can Now Wreck Your Credit Score.

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Buy Now, Pay Later Can Now Wreck Your Credit Score. · The Curve

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Coming up on today's episode, we're talking about buy now, pay later.
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We're talking about
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the new regulations that come into play, how buy now, pay later actually make money,
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how one woman ended up with $50,000 worth of debt, and does it impact your credit score?
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Spoiler alert, it does.
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You may have heard many finance pros in the last few weeks talking about
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should we be selling out of the US?
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Basically, everyone is panicking.
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Is there an AI bubble?
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What is going on with Trump?
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And should we be looking at diversifying?
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So we're going to get
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a chartered accountant's take.
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Then we have the $110 billion merger between Warner Brothers and
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Paramount.
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There is something huge going on in the US with over 12 states that are objecting to this,
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but Sophie actually just wants to be paying less for her subscription.
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So who's right?
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Not me,
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apparently.
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And Sophie's got a bonus story, but we're giving you no details.
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So stick to the end
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to hear that one.
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Hi, and welcome to The Curve Weekly, where we read the finance news so that
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you don't have to.
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I'm Sophie Hall-Wright, XTV and radio producer, who really understood absolutely
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nothing about the economy, stock market investing.
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And today I'm joined by a very special guest.
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Hey, I'm Abby Foster.
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I'm an ACA target accountant, but also finance creator,
1:05
author and presenter.
1:06
But before we dive in, a quick word from today's sponsor.
1:13
This episode of the Curve Weekly is made possible by Pathfinder KiwiSaver plan,
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helping you invest alongside your values.
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Pathfinder's one mindful money, best ethical
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So we've teamed up with them to bring you the ethical
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Got questions about the ethics of an investment or unsure where you draw the line?
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Submit your questions via the link in the podcast show notes and thank you so much to Pathfinder for
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making this episode of the Curve Weekly possible.
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Pathfinder Asset Management Limited is the issuer
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A product disclosure statement is available at pathfinder.kiwi.
1:43
Today we are very lucky to have Abby Foster, chartered accountant, founder, author, presenter,
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do a bit on social you know just a bit oh my god yeah i forgot the key key one so for anyone that
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doesn't already follow abby on socials she does such amazing content what i love about the way
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that you talk about money i feel like i'm in trouble and sometimes which is i think a good
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thing yeah i'm the kind of person i need to go to a gym class that i get yelled at and i often find
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when you tell me i need to do something i'm like okay i need to go do it and maybe it's the teacher
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and you too because that's another thing we haven't mentioned you go into schools and do a
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lot of financial education yeah I think I am I've naturally brought that teaching style into
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my social media and it's just because that's how I learned to kind of put my face on social media
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because I'm not naturally especially when I started I wasn't naturally born for social I
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wasn't recording myself for any anything else and then when I was doing that I was like I'm gonna
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have to kind of put a persona on and that persona became like teacher Abby the accountant that
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teaches finance but yeah you make it so easy for everyone to understand and I have on my lap right
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now the money manual that is my first book yeah and is the second one on its way what is it can
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you talk about is it all okay right so for anyone that's wondering why we have you filling in for
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vick this week she is focusing on some outrageously exciting things that we've been working on for a
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long time at the curve and she messaged me the other day saying like honestly i'm just i'm so i
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really don't know how i'm going to find time for the podcast this week and i don't want it to suffer
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and I thought do not fear I know exactly who will be getting on and I called Abby on a Sunday and
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I was like how are you placed do you have any time to help us keep up with the news so thank you so
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much for filling in it's an absolute pleasure I love it so there's been lots of things going on
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in in the news in the world of finance the stock market there's been some big changes actually here
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in the UK but really interestingly if you zoom out and look at the broader economy a lot of these
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stories and the things that we're going to cover today are very global so the first one that I
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really wanted to speak to you about is the buy now pay later update so this particular conversation
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the reason we wanted to talk about it is because there's so much misinformation around what buy now
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pay later actually means and you know for anyone that's like okay this is everything from Klana
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after pay clear pay a lot of people are building their own versions because basically up until this
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week in the uk it was completely unregulated and so the fca's the financial conduct authority had
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no real jurisdiction on telling them what to do and that was the problem because then it meant
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that they could effectively pink wash and make it into some sort of debt that wasn't a debt that was
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being targeted at women it was being targeted at young people because there wasn't an fca regulation
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in place to say you cannot sell this to over like you can't sell this to minors so under 18
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now there is that but there were loads of things that were like crazy wrong with it and buy now
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pay later as a construct if you are thinking like well how do they make money because I think often
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people think well by now they pay later is great because you buy something now and then you put the
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money and then it's that 30 pound dress that means you you paid 10 pound a week for three weeks or
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you pay that 30 pounds at the end of the month let's say but what they don't realize is if one
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is still a debt and two buy now pay later companies are making fortunes off of the fact that they're
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incentivizing you to buy something that you probably couldn't have afforded and therefore
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they're going back to the retailer you bought it from and taking a commission off of them
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but what i don't understand is how the business actually makes money because you're not paying
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interest right the whole point of buy now pay later is that there's no interest yep so that's
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the point so basically buy now pay later companies take commission off the companies that you buy
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products from so let's say that you bought you that dress from I did five five minutes ago because
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I spilled coffee all down the back of the one I was meant to be wearing cute we love I got into
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work today and our social media manager Lucy was like um there's a bit of brown stuff on the back
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of your white skirt it was my coffee had splashed all over it so I literally did go out and buy this
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today so let's just pretend that I put it on buy now pay later so you pounds so let's say 50 pounds
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and you agreed that you're going to pay that 50 pounds in three installments over and it is just
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going to be equally split across three installments so you're thinking well i'm not paying anyone
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anything it's just making me split 50 pounds across three payments but what's happening is
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the buy now pay later company that you use is going back to the provider you bought the dress
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from and saying sophie wouldn't have bought that dress if it wasn't for us and so therefore you
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need to pay us commission and that's what happened that's how they make a lot of their money it's
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basically going to asos and asos go oh okay yeah fine and hand them a commission based on what you
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bought okay they also do make money through interest because a lot of people take out buy
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now pay later when actually they can't afford debt and so therefore land in debt and then they
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start incurring interest and then also they make middleman money from various other places as well
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so one of the things that's spoken about a lot is that buy now pay later can be really brilliant
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it can be really brilliant if you're using it in the right way and people talk about it as a
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budgeting tool and I was like hold on a second from your perspective do you look at buy now pay
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later as a helpful resource that can be really great for budgeting or is it just a people that
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are trying to wrap it in a way that encourages us to be spending outside of our means second
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if I'm honest I think the the cons outweigh the pros in my personal opinion is why like I've never
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really worked with a buy now pay later company purely because I just fear there's not enough
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education upfront about what can go wrong.
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I think there's a lot of upfront education about
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all the ways that it's really positive and it can help you budget but a lot of people that use buy
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now pay later have no other means of purchasing that item and so they're like they're betting on
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themselves being financially better off in a few weeks time and sometimes and hopefully for a lot
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of people it pays off and it's fine but for some people it doesn't and then it's a really slippery
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slope into more aggressive debt because you're then probably taking on other debt to pay off
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the first and then you're creating a ripple chain and this is the whole snowball effect right because
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in the same way that you can compound your returns when you're investing in a positive way
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you can also compound debt in a really negative way so it can just like snowball out of control
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but i guess the these new regulations that are coming in because the wildest thing to me was
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like it's been put into so many different places like for example whether it's deliver or uber
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rates or whatever and like there's no way someone needs to be budgeting for a sunday morning hangover
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meal like that's you cannot pass that as a you know so with the new regulations now so the
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regulations came out on the 15th of july and then compared the market we're doing loads of stats
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recently about how like 54 of people have no idea that these rules have even come into play
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and like 14 of people would have bought and purchased this completely if declined by the
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buy now pay later checkout which I think is a positive thing because it means that they couldn't
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have afforded anyway because what they now have to do so what the regulators like what the regulated
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industry now has to do which is the buy now pay later industry they have to run checks on those
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that are trying to take out buy now pay later the same way that if someone's trying to take out a
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credit card they'd run checks they have to be upfront about all of the costs that are involved
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as well they also get section 75 protection on their on their purchases now that you didn't get
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before so section 75 is when if you purchase something on a credit card between 100 pounds
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and 30 000 pounds um your credit card provider is jointly liable for your purchase so if something
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goes wrong with it the credit card provider will help you get your money back basically
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and section and basically section 75 is now on a buy now pay later as well so they're becoming
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stricter at not just letting anyone being able to use it which i think is really positive because
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there are a lot of people that shouldn't be using it like you said people that are using it for very
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small ticket items, if you can't feasibly afford to do that, there is a much bigger question that
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needs to be had.
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Well, so this is what I was going to say.
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I remember, I remember the day that I
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nearly used it for the first time.
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And this was pre the curve, pre any kind of financial education.
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I thought one day I would love some new sunglasses.
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Do they need them?
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Definitely not.
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Were they cool?
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Yes.
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But could I afford them?
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Absolutely not.
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And so I went into the shop and
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she said to me the shop assistant was like oh we've got buy now pay later so if you know if you
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want to blah blah blah and I was going through the setup for it and I was like tick tick tick like
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you know whatever it was so easy to get in and I was and which is exactly the whole point of it
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trying to be a bit more regulated but I was the prime candidate for spending outside of my means
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I hadn't thought about the fact that I wanted to buy new sunglasses and then save towards it
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I just feel like this instant gratification that people get from using these types of platforms
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means it's almost enhancing this constant consumer behavior of if I want it I will buy it and get it
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immediately I don't know if there is actually any sensible way to be using buy now pay later
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if you're super financially confident you're super financially aware maybe but in what context
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like when would you use it and you think it's a good idea a bigger purchase so like let's say
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something was like a two three hundred four hundred dollar pounds dollar whatever we're
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talking purchase that's probably when I'd look at it I personally haven't wouldn't use it just
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because it's something that I I always sit by the means of like if I wouldn't teach the next
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generation about it I wouldn't do it myself and I think with the next generation I'm very
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cautious to say to them that it sits in one of two camps because I think we're trying not to
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villainize debt but also remind young people that like just because it looks easy and looks pretty
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doesn't mean it is easy and should be used.
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Yeah, with buy now pay later, there could be some people
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that think it's really efficient and really helpful for them.
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If they've never gone into
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debt because of it, fantastic.
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But do I think everyone should get on board with it?
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No.
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And I
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think there needs to be a lot more education about what it actually is as well.
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Because I think people
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see like free or no interest and just assume that that means free forever and easy.
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I think now I
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hear you speak let's say for example I wanted to get 12 laser appointments and it's going to cost
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me a thousand pounds or something and I knew I was only going to get one of those treatments
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every month and it was going to be 70 pounds a month or whatever it is and I could pay it off
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in that way and then I got access to a discount because I was buying a package deal maybe you
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could justify the idea that okay well I'm splitting those payments over when I'm actually using it
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and that makes sense but I just completely don't trust myself to not miss the deadline of then
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growing interest so for me it's a no-brainer not to but I hear what you're saying there are
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instances where perhaps it could be okay and like the other thing that came into play with
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Binal Pay Laser is it now does impact your credit score so if you missed a payment in the past I
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think this is the most interesting part of it because the whole reason that so many people
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were using it is because they didn't think there was any kind of negative flow on effects right
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But actually, if you have a bad credit score, you sometimes can't get leveraged to buy a house, open a business.
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It's really genuinely long-term damaging.
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Yeah.
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And I think the most vulnerable are women and young people that use it thinking it's easy, don't realize they miss a payment.
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And they go, oh, it's okay.
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Don't realize there's now these new regulations.
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And then they look at their credit score and it's been impacted because they've missed the payment or they're now incurring charges.
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Guys, this is so important.
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anyone that's listening if you know anyone young actually actually to be honest anybody yeah make
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sure they understand the implications of using debt badly because you can use debt in such amazing
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ways and grow your wealth you can also massively negatively impact your future if you fuck things
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up so one of those one of those things i see on social media a lot is like what's cool if you're
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wealthy and not cool if you're poor and that is really one of them like very wealthy people like
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you were talking about Elon Musk last week,
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like he's so leveraged up to the hill,
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he's got so much debt
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and because he's wealthy, it's fine.
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But when you're poor-
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You're like, oh, shake, you've got debt.
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Well, I don't think he is,
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but like-
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I shake about the money.
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No, but like in theory,
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like when you're wealthy,
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you can just keep leveraging,
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keep borrowing and it's fine
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because you've got assets to borrow
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against all of this kind of stuff.
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But when you're poor
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and you play about with debt,
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it can go very sour, very fast.
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And I think that's why young people,
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because they start,
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they're 18 and they're now on the financial ladder right and they need to they're the ones that need
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to be really careful because it's a game of snakes and ladders and when you're just starting out it
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can bring you right back to the bottom really quickly.
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Snakes and ladders what a throwback
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how annoying if your dip just slid you down a 10 step ladder.
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Exactly.
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Real pain in the ass.
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Yeah
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and I think not for a lot of people they'll say like oh well I've been using fine I'll pay later
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and it's fine and like yeah maybe I've missed one payment but it's okay and in the past maybe that
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was fine on your credit score but now you're gonna snake all the way back down because actually it is
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gonna impact your credit score and you're gonna have to build that back up snakes and letters
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do you snake down not the the letters up and then the snake is down yeah what did i just say you
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said that but i was like thinking of sliding down the ladder no well i'm obviously haven't played in
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a while i know sometimes though when you're in your 30s you think this that like you just feel
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like you're just like going up and down all of them you're like i don't know anymore am i going
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up this thing am I going down up the ladder I'm pretty I feel like I take one step forward in one
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part of my life and then I like turn around and I'm like why why is that part of my life just
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slid to the bottom yeah but it's funny because I was looking at the stats okay this actually is
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not funny at all there's nothing funny about it but in the UK nearly 70 percent of buy now pay
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later customers are women so it's so disproportionately women that are targeted using this
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yeah I don't know I think that that in itself is a massive issue and so if you're listening
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to this I think we need to probably not normalize the idea of using buy now pay later it's not yeah
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it shouldn't really be one of those chic things I mean I I was reading an article yesterday um
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someone in the New York Times they were basically it was a journalist that was following a young
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woman she was a she was like involved in fashion and she accumulated nearly fifty thousand dollars
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worth of debt from her buy now pay later purchase because she was just constantly trying to keep up
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with her friends buy new designer bags and clothes and she fell down the snake or the ladder
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and all of a sudden was in so much debt and I yeah it breaks my heart I think actually like
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social media has a real role to play in that and like making reminding everyone as well that like
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we don't the comparison culture is really hard and also that we don't always need everything new
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all the time and we don't need to look like everyone else all the time I know I struggle
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with it a lot I feel like as someone that's quite front-facing I feel like I'm constantly having to
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reinvent my wardrobe like every week and I worry about wearing something twice or wearing an outfit
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that I might have worn in another speech somewhere else and will people judge me and I know people
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don't care but actually it is hard I get it how girls can end up in these situations oh 100% I
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mean I'm going to a wedding this weekend and I I'm wearing a dress that I wore to a wedding less
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than a month ago which I absolutely need to spot clean should have taken it to the dryer cleaner
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and I totally forgot about it.
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We'll not have time.
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But I'm wearing the same outfit, and I really was thinking that.
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I was like, oh, I really want a new dress.
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I would love to wear something new.
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And I had to really look at myself and be like,
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I was so excited to wear that dress a month ago.
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It's the same dress.
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I looked great in it.
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But, yeah, it is.
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I think that particularly when there's so many photos and videos of you,
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I think it makes it worse.
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I'm going to a wedding in September.
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I'm going to rent.
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That's going to be my thing.
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Although sometimes it's still funny.
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but I'm going to rent because the dress code is like funky over the top vibe.
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It's quite fun.
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Which I'm really looking forward to.
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But my wardrobe and my job doesn't really lend hand in hand
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to funky over the top wedding guest attire.
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So I was like, I think I'm going to rent.
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And that was my way of convincing myself that it's okay
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because it's rented and I can handle that.
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The next news item that I would love to hear your insight on,
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I am seeing everywhere this absolute panic station with what is happening in the US
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so people are talking about the idea of divesting from the US and so for anyone that is not sure
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what that means we are in earning season or about to go into earnings which generally means the
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stock market's going up down sideways because all these results coming out so people are making
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decisions so that's happening yeah and then we've also spoken about the AI bubble and everyone
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panicking about it all bursting and we'll get to what's happening with SpaceX in a second.
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But just generally, there's so much conversation around the idea of how over-invested a lot of us
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are in the US.
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I think it's like most people that are in global equities and ETFs are up to like
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70% invested in the US.
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So I guess my question is, can we just zoom out and look at what's
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happening with the US stock market.
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I just, I feel like I'm sort of hearing so much about it.
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And I know what Vic would say.
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She would say, do not panic, do not make decisions.
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But I wanted
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to hear what your personal approach is when it comes to this and how you're thinking about where
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your investments are.
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Yeah, I'm thinking about it a lot at the moment.
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I'm thinking quite global,
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purely because you're right.
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Even global trackers are very heavily weighted to the US because
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obviously if you think even within the S&P 500, which is the top 500 companies in the US,
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you know the magnificent seven which is the seven biggest tech stocks make up a huge proportion of
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that like even the value of those companies combined is like bigger than some of the global
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gdp of like certain countries in the world like it's it's absolutely wild like they have so much
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power so much control the ai era as well is giving people the fear of the dot-com era of when
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basically anything that had dot-com or the website or internet involved just was like
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skyrocketing in price and then the problem was at one point we started to realize that
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not everything could be that valuable and did it actually have that much value and i think people
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are semi worried that the same thing could happen with ai and we have gone through eras of life as
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well where like you know the uk was the biggest economy in the entire world and then it was china
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then japan at one point was the biggest economy in the world we're talking hundreds of years right
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but now us is like this monster of an economy and people are going okay well when does the
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when does the bell curve start to come down again and i think that's people's main concern at the
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moment because they are run by a very volatile president and he has made so many rogue decisions
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in the last few years and i think people are just feeling quite fearful because for a long time the
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s&p 500 or us market had this sort of consistency where people would say things like well on average
20:34
returns about eight percent and sometimes more i think it got to 11 i've been saying that 11
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recently well and that's fine do you know what i mean but like still that's so high it is high
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and like on average it was this kind of consistency this sort of like we knew and then now it's just
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becoming so volatile and people don't really know where they stand and also the market doesn't like
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instability it really it doesn't like not knowing it doesn't like chaos and that is everything that
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trump basically represents like he wakes up and posts on his true social and the market just goes
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nuts it's not at all funny I don't know no no but it's like it is wild like even anyway we won't
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get into how it crosses with the UK but it is having an impact on everyone because you know
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more and more people are waking up to the world of investing and then they're thinking oh god I'm
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really weighted into the US and so I would if I've looked at my own portfolio and I've had a look at
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things like emerging markets instead and maybe the east and what's going on over there and how
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how else is the world combating what's going on in the u.s because well earning season started
21:35
with us see the big big dogs like goldman sachs and netflix all coming out with their figures
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but also inflation figures came out this week so the u.s inflation went from 4.5 in may to 3.2
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in june that's quite good though isn't it yes going down however the reason it went down is
21:52
because oil prices started to drop again because obviously they went up massively then they've come
21:56
down slightly however this was june's figures so this is a backwards looking metric inflation
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is always in the past so we're looking at basically if we're looking at the june yeah so
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june inflation figure that came out at 3.2 is basically saying that june 2025 figures a basket
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of goods let's say and services compared to june 26 figures the difference is 3.2 that's what it's
22:20
gone up i realize that and also inflation is an average figure so not everything's gone up
22:25
by 3.2 percent yes some things have gone up higher some things have slowed down i've not heard this
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before yeah inflation's it's really important to understand people think if inflation is this sort
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of thing that's happening now it's not it's it's a backwards looking metric so and you know they've
22:38
released 3.2 percent and like yes but be aware that then trump woke up and again forgot the
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straight of homers was important and they strut it again because they weren't angry at him sorry
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there's better political way to put this but that's basically what's happening so fine and they and
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now the prices of oil went back up again and so then that could impact them again and you know
22:57
and then it means interest rates have stayed semi-stable but then also interest rates in the
23:01
US have been one of those things that we could always rely on because they're run by the Federal
23:05
Reserve so the US equivalent to our our Bank of England to our central bank and until recently
23:13
they're just left alone to do their job right and we can all trust that all going to do their jobs
23:17
and it's all going to be fine.
23:18
And then Trump in the last few years has gone,
23:21
I don't like you, i.e.
23:22
like one of the people within the Fed.
23:24
I want to get rid of you.
23:25
And so that's what he was trying to do with Lisa Cook,
23:27
who was this woman in the Fed.
23:29
And all because basically she didn't vote in interest rates
23:33
how he voted, basically.
23:36
And thankfully, the US Supreme Court came in and were like,
23:38
no, you can't just get rid of people because you don't like them.
23:41
But it did cause a bit of instability
23:42
because then we were like, well, what can we trust anymore?
23:45
Like, you know, if he's allowed to just basically come in and dictate what interest rates are set, all that kind of stuff.
23:50
So I think there's not only volatility in the U.S. market because of AI and the heavy weighting on tech stocks, which are all based in the U.S., well, most of them.
23:59
There is also this huge problem around the instability of the current president and what does that look like and is there an end kind of thing.
24:07
So I think a lot of people are looking outside, which is interesting.
24:11
And I think I think everyone should.
24:12
Yeah.
24:13
Diversification, diversification, diversification.
24:16
I was researching for this and I wanted to see if I had any thoughts on what's happening in America and would I divest and, you know, not that I'm a professional trader, but I didn't realize that Trump had had six businesses file for bankruptcy between 1991 and 2009.
24:35
Six.
24:35
Can you imagine if the curve went bankrupt and then I had the audacity to start five more businesses?
24:41
Well, technically in the UK you wouldn't be allowed for like seven years.
24:43
You wouldn't be allowed to run the company again for like seven years.
24:45
Isn't that absolutely wild?
24:47
Think about the ego you would have to have to back yourself time and time and time again.
24:53
One of the things as well that I was looking into was, you know, it's quite interesting that all of the presidents who have been in the White House before made their fortune when they left the White House.
25:05
You know, it was writing books.
25:08
It was speeches.
25:09
It was the credibility that they gained from being president.
25:12
whereas he is the only president that has made his money in office and the amount that he's made
25:19
is 2.2 billion dollars which is like four times what he made in 2024 he's like the wealthiest
25:26
president in modern history by like an enormous enormous margin which and apparently all of those
25:32
you know all of the presidents that you look at whether it's like bush obama they give their
25:36
assets almost into like a blind trust so they can't see what's happening with it none of the
25:40
decisions that they're making in their job can be impacting their investments because they don't
25:45
know what's happening they're disconnected whereas trump's investments are being like managed by his
25:50
two adult sons or something crazy it's like honestly how is this even it's the ultimate
25:55
like is it doesn't he run the apprentice in the u.s is it called something different i don't know
26:00
yeah that was how he got his big break because he was like he was like our because in the uk the
26:04
apprentice is run by alan sugar and he was like the alan sugar in the u.s and like this is the
26:08
ultimate reality show for him it just is like we can joke about it but like being president of the
26:14
united states is the ultimate reality show for donald trump he is able to just be the biggest
26:18
face the biggest name like who on earth goes out and like builds truth social just because you got
26:22
kicked off twitter so that he can like and he impacts the markets by just going on true social
26:26
you know how like i think it was there is that a new like a new social media platform social was
26:31
his social media platform that he basically tweets on because he's not allowed to tweet on twitter
26:36
no sorry x it's absolutely wild he made so much from crypto in the last few years all of that
26:40
like billions of pounds like 1.5 billion from crypto yeah because he talks about it like it
26:46
was so disrespectful recently he went on to truth social to basically announce that our
26:49
prime minister at the time kistama was leaving like he shouldn't be able to do that and there
26:54
is some sort of like we've been living this like under group understanding in the world there's
26:58
some things you like the decorum of like how politics works and he that's one thing that man
27:03
does not know and this is the thing he's just blown it up and gone all of this is a reality
27:07
show get on board i would love to know if you've made any different decisions lately with your
27:14
portfolio like have you actually actively divested or are you just now looking at other opportunities
27:19
and emerging markets being one of them i'm looking at quantum computing a lot at the moment what
27:26
great question what is the conclusion it's basically what will be needed to keep ai going
27:32
like the computers that are going to be needed to like keep up the level of power that we need
27:38
for AI and it's like AI on steroids basically and I've been looking at a lot of quantum computing
27:44
businesses been looking into like I said emerging markets like what does that look like emerging
27:50
markets in Africa emerging markets in Asia like there's lots of interesting things going on I'm
27:55
not saying that I'm fully I've like like ripped up the rule book of my investment portfolio and
28:00
start again but I am having a look but investing I think don't panic don't throw like all your toys
28:06
out the pram but just be cautiously aware can we do a quick SpaceX update yes so do maybe a quick
28:12
overview for anyone that doesn't know SpaceX what's going on and then what is actually happening
28:16
so SpaceX is the space technology company of Elon Musk who obviously owns Tesla it filed for an IPO
28:24
so initial public offering on the Nasdaq in the US the reason it went with the Nasdaq is because
28:30
um they basically were able to like fast forward getting their ipo when actually it would have
28:36
taken them much longer if they'd gone on like the new york stock exchange etc um but when they filed
28:41
they were listed at 135 a share obviously it skyrocketed it made elon musk a trillionaire
28:48
it has actually come down since its ipo a few weeks ago it's now dropped to 132 132 dollars
28:53
and 50 cents so not only has it dropped below what its initial ipo was as it's not only got
28:58
back to what its initial IPO was, has dropped even below that.
29:00
So from its high, because at one point it skyrocketed right on its IPO day,
29:05
it's now dropped 40%.
29:07
So he has now lost his trillionaire status, which is probably a good thing.
29:11
But yeah, if you were invested in SpaceX, it's something to be really aware of.
29:14
And I think a lot of people should have been very cautious when they dipped their toe in
29:17
with that because it was a very rushed IPO.
29:19
It was a very rushed situation.
29:21
Did you invest?
29:21
No.
29:22
I don't think there were any female investors that invested.
29:25
I just think women are
29:26
we're just better
29:27
we're just better
29:28
at evaluating people
29:29
and we look at people
29:30
and we go
29:31
I don't want to even
29:31
give you money
29:32
through that
29:33
unfortunately there isn't
29:34
much choice
29:35
because obviously
29:35
Tesla's on the stock market
29:36
and all the rest of it
29:37
but you know
29:39
I think some of us went
29:40
okay interesting
29:41
cute
29:42
keep drawing
29:42
could you
29:42
yeah could you
29:43
solve world hunger
29:44
also
29:45
if you want to go to Mars
29:46
I'm not mad about it
29:48
take all your shit friends
29:49
with you
29:49
yeah
29:49
and then stay there
29:51
yeah yeah
29:51
oops you can't get home
29:53
sorry
29:53
Coming up after the break, we're going to be talking about the $110 billion merger between Warner Brothers and Paramount and what that actually looks like.
30:01
And also, guess what?
30:02
I've got a bonus story.
30:03
Yeah, I know.
30:04
I've done my research.
30:04
But first, I've got a quick word from today's sponsor.
30:07
I invest so much more now, but I still don't feel great about profiting from companies that I don't believe in.
30:14
You know, weapons.
30:15
I just, I personally do not want to be making money from conflict.
30:18
But what about weapons companies that supply, like, both sides of the conflict?
30:22
Pretty confusing, right?
30:23
I know.
30:23
it's so confusing and I feel like I'm not alone in that.
30:26
Yeah I mean 80% of New Zealand investors
30:29
don't want weapons in their KiwiSaver yet Mindful Money reports that over 400 million dollars is
30:35
still invested in weapons manufacturers which is why choosing the right provider matters like
30:39
Pathfinder KiwiSaver plan which aims to avoid profiting from conflict.
30:43
They've been recognized
30:44
as weapons free by Mindful Money and written loads of blogs on this topic even covering their
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position on Gaza which a lot of people have avoided so if you want to check out our podcast
30:53
show notes to learn more and thanks so much to Pathfinder for making this episode of the Curve
30:57
Weekly possible.
30:58
Pathfinder Asset Management Limited is the issuer of the Pathfinder Kiwi
31:01
Saver plan.
31:02
A product disclosure statement is available at pathfinder.kiwi.
31:06
Abby can we please
31:07
have an overview?
31:08
So for anyone that missed this, this was a massive deal.
31:12
We talked about it for
31:13
weeks on the Curve Weekly.
31:14
Netflix and Paramount were trying to buy Warner Brothers.
31:18
Yes.
31:19
So the
31:20
reason this was such a big deal is there are well at the moment the media industry is completely
31:25
fragmented i don't know about you but i have like nine or ten subscriptions to different
31:30
bloody streaming platforms yes i am constantly finding myself thinking oh i want to watch that
31:36
and then i have to either buy it or i subscribe to something else as a consumer i will say i
31:42
wouldn't mind a bit of consolidation on the media front but most people's concerned about the idea
31:48
of that and the idea of these massive companies merging is that you're kind of in a position where
31:54
I guess social media has diversified voices and how content is created and what we digest
32:00
and consume is I don't know I guess it's a more accurate representation of what's going on in the
32:06
world because it's not being funneled through one or two businesses there's lots and lots of
32:10
different production companies so on the one hand as a consumer I feel like oh god could you all
32:16
please buy each other so I can just pay one subscription but on the other hand I really
32:19
understand the importance of having diversified production houses why is this story so interesting
32:25
and what is the recent update and what's going on in the US so Netflix are out they're out the
32:30
like of the competition it's now just Warner Brothers Paramount and it's looking like 110
32:34
billion dollar merger and it seems simple on the face of it that they could buy each other however
32:40
12 US states have actually come out and tried to sue this situation to say that they really don't
32:46
think it's acceptable for this to happen because they think it will create a monopoly that basically
32:51
they will then be able to be in control of like pricing and you know what movies come out like
32:57
I was reading some of the stats like more than 25% of major film releases in the US
33:01
would be coming through them so that's a quite a large portion like you said the US market already
33:07
at the moment is so large and is it going to create this sort of monopolized business um and
33:13
we've come with u.s states basically coming out and saying that we'd sue if this happens
33:18
it basically means that there's a little bit of a glitch in the road for this situation so it's not
33:23
it's not actually going through yet it's not being confirmed but one thing is confirmed is that
33:28
netflix are no longer a part of it and people are not happy because it's going to create a monopoly
33:32
where there shouldn't be one is it a naive thought the one that i said before where i was like i would
33:37
love for there to be less subscriptions like is there actually a really stupid way to look at it
33:41
no I don't know I would never also I would never call you stupid but um I would say it's it's
33:46
frustrating because basically I would be the same I would love to just pay one subscription and
33:51
everyone just gets on board and we all get our tv shows from the same place but the problem is
33:55
is less competition means that like I've said there will be the ability for them to just keep
33:59
pushing the prices up and we can't go anywhere because there's no one else and also it drives
34:03
less creativity because they don't have to be creative they don't have to be in clever about
34:08
this stuff because they know that there's nowhere else for us to go um which i sort of understand
34:13
so we'll have to see how this goes yeah i mean i just would love if someone could come up with
34:18
a subscription that was maybe more expensive but they gave me access to quite a few different ones
34:23
like almost someone above the subscriptions i think in the uk we've got like sky is trying to
34:28
do that where like you buy sky and then you get all of the subscriptions through i believe sky
34:32
still a thing.
34:33
Does anyone watch Sky?
34:34
Do you watch Sky?
34:35
I'm on Sky News
34:36
quite often.
34:36
No, but do you watch it?
34:38
Well, yeah.
34:39
But do you actually?
34:39
Do I watch Sky News?
34:40
Yes, because it's like easy.
34:42
And where is it?
34:43
On television?
34:44
Like on a TV?
34:45
Yeah, I'm sorry.
34:45
No, I'm being curious here.
34:46
Where are you, Gemsy?
34:47
I mean, all I am is
34:48
all I am is on Netflix
34:49
if I'm being honest.
34:49
Actually, no, I'm not.
34:50
I'm on Netflix.
34:51
I'm on Apple.
34:51
Do you not watch the news?
34:53
No.
34:53
Where do you watch the news?
34:54
The Curve Weekly.
34:55
You are my news.
34:55
You are my news.
34:57
Sorry.
34:59
I'm sorry.
35:00
No, I don't.
35:01
I really don't.
35:02
You don't listen to the radio, I can't imagine.
35:03
No.
35:04
Do you know what LBC is?
35:05
No.
35:06
Not a clue.
35:06
Oh, brilliant.
35:07
I also do that.
35:08
Yeah.
35:09
Leading Britain's conversation.
35:11
You mentioned me saying, can you add a link to it?
35:13
And I was like, I don't know what LBC is.
35:15
Yeah.
35:16
LBC is a radio show in the UK.
35:19
But yeah, sorry, I feel like a grandma now.
35:21
But yes, there are such things as television and the news.
35:25
And there is also radio.
35:27
That still exists.
35:27
People do still turn their radio on and listen to the game.
35:30
I feel like I accidentally slapped you in the face and it wasn't my bad.
35:33
Yeah, but it's okay.
35:34
I will just, it's all right.
35:36
I'll try and come back next week and smile about it.
35:37
What we can take from this is that I am uneducated and I don't listen to enough news.
35:43
But honestly, that's why the Curve Weekly started because I really feel quite allergic to the news.
35:47
I don't, I find it so hard to understand.
35:50
Yeah.
35:50
I find it like, yeah, I find it really overwhelming.
35:53
You are honestly one of the majority.
35:54
I'm one of the minority.
35:55
Like I have so many people that come to my Instagram page for the only reason,
35:59
the only reason they come to my page is because I get up early in the morning and I post three
36:03
things like I post these things called like the morning money news stars where I post three stars
36:07
every morning about like the finance news basically right and I do like a sentence on each
36:11
and I get so many messages from people being like if you didn't post this I wouldn't know anything
36:15
it makes me feel a little bit and so don't worry you're one of the majority I'm the minority because
36:18
I do sit there and I watch Sky News I watch BBC I listen to the Financial Times I do I mean and
36:25
That is why you've come on as an expert for the Curve Weekly.
36:27
Well, there you go.
36:28
Thank God someone's watching, honestly.
36:35
I did find a story which I would like to share with the class.
36:38
I was reading this story about this guy called Tony.
36:41
He's a six-year-old Costco cashier from Arizona.
36:45
And he has just realized that he has $1 million in his 401k.
36:51
So his pension, KiwiSaver, super, wherever you are in the world.
36:54
and he was earning $32.90 an hour.
36:57
He was on an hourly wage,
36:59
so like not on a particularly good salary
37:01
and he's worked there for 40 years.
37:05
I was just like, oh my God, bless Tony's heart.
37:08
So he's worked at Costco for 40 years,
37:10
but I just thought this is such a brilliant example
37:13
of A, how if you treat your staff well
37:15
and you really help educate them,
37:17
you make sure that they're doing the right thing
37:19
in terms of their pension,
37:20
that as an employer, they're contributing
37:23
and helping them get to a point where they have financial stability and security.
37:26
Like the fact that he has managed to do that for anyone that is thinking,
37:31
I don't have enough to invest or I'm never going to have enough money to be able to retire.
37:35
40 years ago, he was on $5.85 an hour.
37:38
And he has been putting, and that was in 1986,
37:40
and he's been putting money aside ever since then for 40 years.
37:43
And now he has enough to retire.
37:44
And I just thought, guys, for anyone that is like, how do we do it?
37:49
It's so expensive and it's so hard to find enough money.
37:52
And to feel, I guess, like I'm just never going to reach these goals or I'm never going to be able to stop working.
37:58
It's consistency and it's time.
38:01
And you don't have to be investing a lot.
38:03
Just a little bit consistently and over time.
38:06
But also I think it's a really brilliant story from a business perspective.
38:09
They have purposefully paid their staff more.
38:12
They know that they then have like lower training costs, better customer service because they have these people that have been there for 40 years.
38:18
Like how gorgeous is that story?
38:21
I loved it.
38:22
And I also think that one of the things that we're told often, like Gen Z or millennials, is the idea that if you leave a job, because I thought this when I was younger, when I was in a job and I was earning really quite bad money, I thought like job hopping was the best way to earn money and like raise my salary.
38:39
And I did do that.
38:40
I left a few jobs and I bopped around.
38:42
I did increase my salary a lot.
38:44
but I was reading a statistic that was basically saying the difference from people that are trying
38:49
to job hop to get pay increases is only 70 pounds across the year like as in it's what people used
38:56
to think was going to bring them wealth in terms of like trying to earn more money of course like
39:01
we're all on that mission but actually the idea of like consistency and long-term service can pay
39:06
off and maybe it is the case like big flashy bonuses obviously like make a huge difference
39:11
to being able to go and put that money towards bigger long-term goals.
39:14
But hey, if you're on an hourly salary and you're thinking,
39:18
how the hell am I ever going to make a million dollars?
39:21
Bloody Tony got there at 60.
39:23
That's cute.
39:24
It's quite cute, isn't it?
39:25
Yeah.
39:26
Before we wrap up today's Curve Weekly,
39:28
we have got a question for the Ethical Hotline, which is very exciting.
39:31
So we're going to throw to Lily,
39:32
who is our ethical investing expert from Pathfinder.
39:35
Welcome back to the Ethical Hotline.
39:36
And this is a really short, sweet, but very good question.
39:41
The question that came through is just,
39:43
how do you invest ethically?
39:45
Where to start?
39:46
I kind of love it.
39:48
It's so simple, but it's also such a huge can of worms.
39:51
So we'd love to hear, Lily, what your and the rest of the team
39:55
at Pathfinder's thoughts are on this particular question.
39:58
Thanks.
39:58
Yeah, I mean, obviously, Pathfinder has our own take on ethical investing.
40:03
And I think that's a really important point to make,
40:05
which is that there's no standard definition.
40:08
Generally, it's like ethical investing means
40:10
including non-financial metrics into your decision-making process because you care about
40:15
the impact that your decisions have on the world around you.
40:18
But how you do that is unique to,
40:21
say, what fund manager you are, but also a lot of your listeners are independent investors and
40:26
they make their own stock decisions.
40:27
So I thought it might be kind of cool to describe how you would
40:32
go about creating your own mini ethical investment policy.
40:36
I love this.
40:37
I love the idea of giving
40:39
yourself almost some parameters or rules to make those decisions.
40:43
And it's kind of for anyone that
40:45
doesn't know what a fund manager is.
40:47
Lily works at Pathfinder, which is a funds management company.
40:50
So what they do is they have company-wide investment theses for things.
40:55
So what we're
40:55
basically talking about today is if you were wanting to invest ethically and you wanted to
40:59
almost run your own investment approach through your own lens that feels right for you, what would
41:05
be the ways that you would build that and what would you include in that investment thesis?
41:09
Yeah, exactly.
41:10
So there, obviously there are many ways to do this, but I'm proposing a very simple
41:15
way and it has about, it's got three steps.
41:18
So the first step would be to figure out what your
41:21
principles or values are.
41:23
So essentially it's like what you think is right.
41:26
Now, values is a really
41:28
common term, but don't be freaked out or disappointed or feel any shame if you don't
41:33
know what your values are.
41:34
Not everyone does.
41:36
And actually we might have thought we did,
41:39
but then that might change as we get older or our situation changes.
41:43
So a chance to re-evaluate
41:44
your values is always really fun and interesting.
41:47
And ways to do this, I would suggest that you
41:50
inquire of yourself and ask yourself things like, okay, what do I think there should be more of?
41:56
or what do I admire in other people or what's something I'd never compromise on.
42:02
Answers to
42:03
these kinds of questions give you a sense of what it is that you really value, what you hold most
42:09
dear, what you won't compromise or give up on.
42:12
And you know, there's no right or wrong answer,
42:15
but you might discover things like you really value ambition or you really value loyalty.
42:20
it might be something like compassion or patience and again no wrong answers but just write these
42:27
down and then from there you can use those values and look look at those values and go based on what
42:33
this person me in this instance really thinks is important what should I try and avoid investing in
42:40
like what wouldn't make sense for someone who cares about these things to invest in
42:44
really common examples in the world of investing from values-based exclusions of things like
42:49
alcohol, pornography, gambling, and tobacco.
42:52
But like if you're very passionate about the
42:55
environment, you might also want to exclude extractive fossil fuels as an example.
43:00
I love this.
43:01
And I think a really simple thing that you do is get a journal, get a piece of
43:05
paper, do it on your computer, whatever works for you and write those questions down.
43:09
And you're
43:09
right.
43:09
People can feel overwhelmed by figuring out what their values are or their morals, but
43:13
you don't need to spend hours and hours contemplating this.
43:17
It's just really nice
43:19
to feel like where your money is going is in alignment with how you feel.
43:25
Absolutely.
43:25
We've actually created a simple resource that can help you build your own
43:28
mini ethical investing policy.
43:30
Oh, this is so fun.
43:31
Yeah.
43:32
So there'll be a link in the show notes to connect you to that.
43:35
But I was thinking the
43:36
final step really is that now that you know what you value, what you want to avoid, then you also
43:42
ask yourself, well, what do you want to prioritize?
43:43
What do you want to see more of?
43:44
What would you
43:45
like to have grow?
43:46
What would you like to help elevate?
43:47
You can take this little template,
43:50
fill it out.
43:51
You can use it when you're researching stocks.
43:52
You can use it when you're
43:53
investigating ETFs.
43:55
You could even take it to a financial advisor and go, hey, here's me as an
43:58
investor on a page.
43:59
Of course, I have my financial considerations as well, which are really important
44:03
to me.
44:03
But when it comes to ensuring that my portfolio reflects my values, these are the
44:08
things I want you to take into account.
44:09
Oh, this is so cool.
44:11
This is so cool.
44:12
I love that you've
44:13
created this resource.
44:14
How amazing.
44:15
So for anyone that would like to give it a go, have a look,
44:19
we'll put all of those details in the podcast show notes.
44:22
But yeah, thank you so much, Lily.
44:24
God, we're so lucky to be able to use you and the rest of the team at Pathfinder to explore the
44:29
subject matter because it's so important, but so overwhelming for people.
44:33
But that is just the most
44:34
simple, easy thing for people to do.
44:36
So thank you so much.
44:37
Brilliant.
44:38
If anyone else is listening
44:40
and you've got another question that you would like answered, it could be honestly anything to
44:43
do with the space.
44:45
Please do submit it.
44:46
There's been some amazing questions that have come in and
44:48
we're going to be answering one of them every month.
44:50
So thank you so much, Lily.
44:52
And yeah,
44:53
thank you to everyone that submitted their questions.
44:55
The views expressed by Pathfinder
44:57
via the ethical hotline are of a general nature and are not specific to Pathfinder's product.
45:01
To learn more about Pathfinder and what they do, please visit pathfinder.kiwi.
45:06
Okay, everyone have a stunning week.
45:07
We'll see you next Monday for the Curve Weekly with Abby Foster.
45:10
And for anyone that wants to find daily money updates, where can they find you?
45:15
So my Instagram is abigailrosefoster.
45:17
It's the same on TikTok, Substack, YouTube.
45:20
I'm everywhere.
45:21
Can I also just say I'm loving the slightly husky voice you've got going on.
45:24
Yeah.
45:25
It's quite sexy.
45:26
Thank you so much.
45:26
I think it's really a vibe.
45:27
Yeah, I'm not sure if we're sick or run down.
45:30
I'm just a bit run down.
45:31
But we're okay.
45:31
we're back next week
45:32
it's kind of working
45:33
thank you so much
45:33
I think it's really
45:33
working for you
45:34
okay we'll see you next week
45:36
thank you so much
45:37
for listening to
45:37
the Curve Weekly
45:38
make sure you hit subscribe
45:39
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45:40
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45:42
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45:44
and feel free to leave
45:44
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45:45
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45:45
this episode
45:46
because we would love
45:47
your feedback
45:48
we've got new Curve Weekly
45:49
episodes for you to listen
45:50
to every Monday
45:51
but until then
45:52
listen to a raise in the curve
45:53
these are our in-depth
45:54
podcast episodes
45:55
where we chat about
45:56
all things money
45:57
we're also around
45:57
all week on socials
45:58
if you're hungry
45:59
for more Curve content
46:00
and all the links
46:00
are in this podcast's show notes.
46:02
We hope you have a great week
46:03
and we'll catch you for the next episode
46:05
of The Curve Weekly on Monday.
46:14
Okay, quickly, The Curve was created to empower
46:16
and educate you about investing,
46:18
but we are not financial advisors.
46:20
Our platform exists for educational purposes only
46:22
and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice
46:25
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46:26
and should not be relied upon
46:27
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46:29
and always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision
46:34
we're here for any knowledge and support you need but the final call is always yours
46:38
and thanks for being here you got this yeah we know you got this