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How I Stopped Fearing Rejection And Started Asking For What I Want · The Naked Room

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's about all of the dark shit I've gone through in my life.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Inspired, because I needed to hear this today.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: What happened next was beyond anything I could have imagined.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: From those no's we end up having a redirection, right?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: True accessibility shouldn't be an afterthought.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: We don't like perfectionism. It holds us back.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: She even gave me advanced praise for my book.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: One of your favorite actors actually did your voiceover for you.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: I created what can only be described as a crime scene.
• 0:30
  [music]
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: What's up, roomies?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Back again with another guest episode.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: I actually was on her podcast a while back, and she is doing some amazing things.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: She just wrote a book, and it released in September,
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: and we are here to talk about that and a bunch of other things today.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: We have Perry Finkelstein.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: She is a marketing consultant, digital creator, keynote speaker,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: and founder and CEO of the Team Perry Foundation.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: She's raised over $1 million for charity.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Perry was featured in Forbes in December 2022,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: and she holds a Bachelor of Science and an MBA from Adelphi University
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: in Garden City, New York.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: She's an Emmy Award winner.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: And recently released her TEDx talk titled Always Wanting More and Stepping Out of Line.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: On September 9th, 2026,
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: she released her memoir titled The Velvet Bow and Other Dark Shit.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: As a marathoner, nonprofit leader, and producer, creator,
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: and co-host of the Team Perry Step Out of Line podcast,
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: she inspires listeners to Through her dedication to community engagement,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: while she was born with a rare form of muscular dystrophy,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Perry only allows that factor to be a blip in the equation.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: And in turn, her medical challenges have fueled her fire and drive to believe
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: that with hard work, a sharp mind, wit, and a whole lot of moxie,
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: she can accomplish anything.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: And boy has she.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: Over the years, Perry has honed her craft relentlessly and lives by the mantra
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: of step out of line.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Her life's mission is to share her story in the hope of inspiring others to be
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: the change and always venture out of the lines.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: To learn more about Perry, visit www.teamperry.org.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get this thing going.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: What's up, Perry? I am so excited to have you here today in The Naked Room.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm really excited about this conversation since you and I met on your podcast.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if you want to jump right in and start talking
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: about what inspired you to write your book that just came out on September 9th,
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: The Velvet Bow and Other Dark Shit.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: The inspiration for The Velvet Bow goes all the way back to middle school.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: That was when the bullying got really intense.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember reaching a point where I thought, I don't want to be me anymore.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even want to exist.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And somehow, in the middle of all of that, I had this thought.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: If I survive this, I'm going to tell this story someday.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know what that book would look like.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know the genre.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even know if I was capable of writing it.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just knew that, somehow, writing a book was going to be part of my future.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Then I went to high school at a different school.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: A private school with a student body made up largely of students with disabilities.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: The bullying continued, but it changed.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: It became much more verbal than physical.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I started thinking, okay, maybe this is a memoir.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I wasn't ready.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Not even close.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: I remember feeling like, why should anybody get to know these parts of me?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: These were deeply personal, intimate pieces of my life.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't ready to hand them over to strangers and let them judge me.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Then I got to college.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really where I started finding my voice.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I started finding me.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I still wasn't ready to write the book.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to live more.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted more experiences.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to grow as a person and as a writer.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, I was terrified.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was terrified of people reading my words and picking them apart or seeing parts
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: of me that I had spent years protecting.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Graduate school came around, and I still wasn't ready.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: At that point, a lot of my energy was going into building my nonprofit,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: the Team Perry Foundation, so the book stayed in the back of my mind.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then, toward the end of 2024, something shifted.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I started writing my TEDx talk.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And when I rolled onto that TEDx stage,
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: it unlocked something in me creatively that I hadn't experienced before.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was almost like I had finally given myself permission to tell my story.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: After that, I launched a Substack to kind of beta test my writing.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: I had a travel blog before, but I completely reinvented it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I stopped just writing about where I was going and started writing
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: about what was actually going on inside my mind.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: My thoughts, my experiences, my reflections on life and my reality.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And somewhere in that process, I started writing the book.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And once I started, everything came pouring out.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: All those years of holding everything in, the experiences, pain, questions, growth,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: things I had never said out loud, they finally had somewhere to go.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: So The Velvet Bow, and other dark shit, wasn't really born from one single moment.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was 26 years.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: I am currently 26 years old in the making.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Middle school gave me the story.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: College helped me find my voice.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Life gave me the perspective.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And 2024 finally gave me the courage to put it all on the page.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how The Velvet Bow was born.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting because we talk a lot about how everything kind of happens
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: at the time that it's meant to happen.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: And if you had written this book any earlier, it wouldn't be the same book.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really cool that you were able to kind of just let it flow out of you
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: in a more natural way.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: You had to go through everything to be able to get to where you are now.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: Can you tell me where the title comes from and what is the velvet bow exactly?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Title actually came from a gift.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: A couple of years ago, one of my very good friends gave me this gorgeous pink hat
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: with a black velvet bow by Kate Spade.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: My friend and I have this annual tradition where we exchange gifts before Hanukkah
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: and Christmas and then again around my birthday, which happens to be New Year's Eve.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: The funny part is, at the time...
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: My friend had absolutely no idea that I have a velvet phobia.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I opened this beautiful gift, and I remember thinking, this is gorgeous.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I absolutely cannot wear it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I wasn't disappointed.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, I was inspired.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: I knew almost immediately, the title of my book is going to be The Velvet Bow.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: To me, The Velvet Bow became this perfect metaphor for life.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes life hands you things you didn't ask for.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people give you things you don't necessarily want.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you find yourself dealing with circumstances
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: that you never would have chosen for yourself.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: But they're there, and you have to figure out what you're going to do with them.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's what the Velvet Bow represents to me.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: The unexpected thing.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: The uncomfortable thing.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: The thing you might not have chosen, but somehow becomes part of your story.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was the subtitle.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually completely stumped about what to call the book
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: after my publisher told me I needed one.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: I knew the velvet bow was right, but I couldn't figure out what came next.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Then my mom came up with, and other dark shit.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, yes, that's it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because the book isn't just about the velvet bow metaphor.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's about all of the dark shit I've gone through in my life.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: The bullying, the trauma, the challenges,
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: the things that have hurt, shaped, and changed me.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: And more importantly, what I've chosen to make of all of it.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: So the velvet bow is the unexpected thing life hands you,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: and the other dark shit is everything else that comes along with it.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, I think that's what makes the title so perfect for the book.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, thank you, Mom, for coming up with a completely risque, completely bold,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: and completely perfect subtitle.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: I love your mom so much.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: She knows you so well, too. That's really funny.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: I love hearing how that came about, and I'm like,
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: I would love to know where you're Velvet-phobia came from.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I just had it in Velvet Forever.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I can't afford this, but I had it forever because my grandmother,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: she had Velvet-phobia.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I always had it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just hate it. I hate this now.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: I hate everything about it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Grandmother had a phobia and you just hate everything about velvet?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's something about the feeling.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's really funny and just so random.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: I have weird thing with tags and I never admit that.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've only admitted that to my husband and I'm telling you now but it's strange.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like get tags away from me.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: I can't handle Okay,
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: so you use my physical voice supported by AI.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: So all these thoughts that you are saying here with this voice are coming from you.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Can you walk us through how that actually works day to day?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: I use my physical voice
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: every single day.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: But AI technology comes in clutch in a lot of different ways.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: I use it when I'm editing podcasts,
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: creating social media videos that require voiceovers,
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Preparing for speaking engagements, and of course, when my physical voice fails me.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: For podcasts specifically, when I'm working on the final edit,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: I take what I've said and translate it through AI,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: and then I use my communication device to play my voice over the recording.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: It allows listeners to better understand what I'm saying while still letting me
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: to communicate in my own voice and in my own way.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be honest...
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: I used to feel ashamed of using AI and an alternative and augmentative communication device.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like it made me look more disabled,
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: and for a long time that was something I struggled with.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I've completely changed the way I think about it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now I see these technologies for what they really are.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Tools.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: They don't replace me.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: They don't replace my thoughts, my personality, my creativity, or my voice.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: They simply help me communicate and create when I need a little assistance,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: and they step in when my physical voice isn't able to do what I need it to do.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's something really powerful about that realization.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Needing a tool doesn't make my voice any less valid.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: It just means I've found another way to make sure that voice gets heard.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: The technology is the vessel.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: It helps carry my voice, my thoughts and my creativity out into the world
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: but the voice, the story and the person behind it are still me.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and thank goodness you're getting your voice out into the world
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: because you're very important.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Things that you have to say and your experiences are important.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: And speaking of voices, you had an interesting circumstance come
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: about with your TEDx where one of your favorite actors actually did your voiceover
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: for you, Mayim Bialik.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd love for you to speak about that a little bit as well.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think she initially had, you had to reach out to her a bunch, right?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: You had to try to, yes, it took a while to get in touch with her,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: but now you all are homies, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: For three years, I tried pretty much everything humanly possible to get in touch
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: with a woman I had admired my entire life, Mayim Bialik.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: I launched my podcast in 2020, and from the very beginning,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I knew Mayim was one of my dream guests.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: I reached out to her publicists, emailed, sent Instagram and Facebook DMs,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: tried going through agents.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I tried everything.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: One of her publicists responded once or twice, but for the most part, I wasn't having much luck.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: After three years of trying and plenty of rejection, I finally made contact.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And what happened next was beyond anything I could have imagined.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Mayim not only came on my podcast, but she became the guest on our 100th episode,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: which was published in August 2023.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And our relationship didn't end there.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: When I was writing my TEDx talk, something really interesting happened.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I kept hearing Mayim's voice in my head as I was writing.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't intentional.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Her voice just seemed to naturally fit the words I was putting on the page.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, why not ask her?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I reached out and asked if she would be the voice, the narrator of my TEDx talk.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Her response was an immediate, resounding yes.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And instead of relying on a robotic communication device for the narration,
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: I had Mayim Bialik telling my story.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: More recently, she even gave me advance praise for my book.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: So what started as me chasing my dream guest for three years has evolved
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: into a really meaningful friendship and relationship that has continued to blossom.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's a bigger lesson in that story, too.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you have to be willing to hear no over and over again before you get
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: to the yes that changes everything.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I could have given up after the first rejection, or the tenth, or the hundredth attempt.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I didn't.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: I kept reaching out because I believed Mayim was meant to be part of my story.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And somehow, she became much more than a podcast guest.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: She became part of the story itself.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that perseverance definitely paid off.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: You had a vision, and then you chased it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is an incredible lesson for anyone who's listening.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think, Perry, when I was on your podcast,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: we talked about This post that I saw where someone said,
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: if you knew that after the 50th no, you would get a yes,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: wouldn't you be so excited to get all those no's knowing that the yes was going
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: to come?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: If we can kind of get into that headspace and think
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: about how eventually there's going to be a yes,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: and you're a perfect example of that because you persevered and got the person
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: who You wanted to narrate your TEDx talk and be on your 100th podcast episode.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm inspired because I needed to hear this today, so thank you.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: You said something, there's like an outline on Amazon about your book,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: and it says that there's a bunch of humorous stories about life's imperfections.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: So would you mind telling one of your personal stories?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Perfectionism is so last season, and I will prove it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: I have plenty of stories about life's imperfections,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: but some of my funniest ones have happened while traveling.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have this almost futile attempt to blend in when I'm on vacation and pretend
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: that I'm just another person staying at a fancy hotel.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then, inevitably, something happens that completely destroys that illusion.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: One of my favorites happened when I accidentally ran over a bunch
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: of leftover ketchup packets from takeout in the hotel elevator.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I created what can only be described as a crime scene
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: and because the elevator kept stopping at different floors,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: my parents had literally seconds between stops to try
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: to clean up this ketchup massacre before the doors opened
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: and another unsuspecting hotel guest walked in.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was absolutely ridiculous and it was exceptionally difficult to clean up.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Then there are the stories involving my father and my chairs.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: On more than one occasion, he has accidentally dropped either my bath chair
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: or my toileting chair in the lobby or driveway of a very fancy four-star hotel.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not talking about an empty lobby with one person standing around.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about hundreds of people checking in, coming and going, watching this happen.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: There is something incredibly humbling about sitting there
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: while your very necessary medical equipment is suddenly on the floor in the middle
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: of a beautiful hotel lobby with a hundred people looking over like, well,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: this is happening.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Both of those stories actually made it into my memoir because, to me,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: they're the perfect examples of why perfectionism is overrated.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Life is messy.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes there's ketchup everywhere.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes your chair ends up on the floor in front of hundreds of people.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the moments you're most embarrassed about become the stories you laugh
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: about the hardest later.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I've learned that I'm much more interested in embracing those imperfections
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: than trying to hide them.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because honestly, those are usually the moments that make life
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: and a memoir much more interesting.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love the catch-up story so much.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Just...
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm imagining the crime scene and your parents scrambling to try to clean everything up.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that's it's really funny.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: And the fact that you can laugh about it after the fact, it's like, yeah,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: you don't want everything to be perfect all the time, because if it is,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: then you can't write as cool of a memoir.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have as many stories to tell.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: So that's an incredible lesson.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go back to talking about getting lots of no's.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: You've told me that you've gotten lots of no's in your life.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes from those no's, we end up having a redirection, right?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: So in hindsight, if you're looking back on all of these no's,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: things that didn't work out, what are some of the things you're grateful for?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of entrepreneurs, I've faced a lot of rejection in my life.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Probably more no's than I can count.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the biggest lessons I've learned is that you just have to roll with it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: You have to face rejection head on.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Figure out if there's something you can learn from it.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then pick yourself up and keep moving.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you made a mistake, and there's something you can do differently next time.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: But honestly, a lot of the time, the rejection isn't even about you.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a waste of energy to sit there dwelling on what could have been.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: I like to think of it as picking up the broken pieces and asking yourself, okay,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: what can I make out of this?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes those pieces can lead you somewhere even better
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: than where you originally wanted to go.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Looking back, I really don't have regrets,
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: because almost every no I've gotten has redirected me to a different path.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Take Mayim Bialik.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: I spent three years getting rejected and trying to find a way to reach her,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: and eventually that persistence led to a relationship with her
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: that I never could have predicted.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or when I was applying to MBA programs,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: and one school rejected me because they wanted students to take courses in person.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't think I could handle that requirement because of my physical disability,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: so that door closed.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: At the time, that wasn't a great feeling.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: But that rejection led me to another school that truly wanted me for me
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: and offered online classes as an option.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the funny thing is, it turned out to be my undergraduate alma mater.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I've learned that rejection comes in a lot of different forms,
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: and sometimes you don't understand the reason for it or where it's going to lead
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: until much later.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: You can't always control the no, but you can control what you do with it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've learned that I'd much rather keep moving forward than spend my life staring
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: at a door that...
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: This is an incredible sentiment,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: and I wonder if you can speak
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: a little bit more about maybe you have had
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: a few moments here and there where you've let yourself kind of get down.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm going off book here.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, Perry.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: But you get down because it's okay to have those moments where you're feeling
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: a little, you know, you can wallow a bit.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's normal.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: But how do you end up picking yourself back up?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: I know you said it's gotten easier for you over time.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think I used to wallow.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: You used to wallow, yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I used to wallow people early up as it is.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: But then I got hit with a lot of metal stuff and a lot of it happened to me,
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: certainly.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Illnesses, and now the hospital.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of matures you rather quickly.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: You have to choice.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're in this life that you didn't want,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: you didn't ask for, but here you are.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: You have to figure out how you're going to deal with it.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I said, stay here.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like today, my body is not already a little tired.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of appointments yesterday, so my body's not that great.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: I could sit here and be like, I feel bad for myself, I have muscular dystrophy,
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: oh my god, blah, blah, blah, you know, like, it's not worth it. Yes.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I doing that to myself when I know, sure, I have muscular dystrophy,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: but like, that's still not interesting,
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: that's like the least interesting part about me.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm here for a reason, and I can still do stuff, and like that.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm recording a podcast for you.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just do my emails.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I do many things, and like that, while I'm resting.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I had to learn this very quickly growing up
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: because I had no other choice in the zip or,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know, sit in the pain.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it shows not to sit with what Yeah.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: You are here for a reason.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And you can decide.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: You said you can't sit in that for too long because you have too much to do, basically.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: There's too many things that you need to accomplish and there's a point for everything.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm glad that you don't sit in it for too long because it is hard.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: Once you get into that victim headspace, it's hard to pull yourself out of it sometimes.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I think you've trained yourself to just not go into it very often.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that's incredible.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for giving us that insight.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's a reflex, you know. Yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: Can you talk about your Team Perry Foundation a bit more? What is it?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: What's your mission with the foundation?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: The Team Perry Foundation is really the heart of a lot of the work that I do.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I founded Team Perry in 2022
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: as a 501c3 nonprofit because I wanted
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: to take everything I had experienced in my own life, especially around disability,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: accessibility, inclusion, and being underestimated,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: and turn it into something bigger than just my own story.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: At its core, our mission is about amplifying marginalized voices,
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: challenging societal norms, combating ableism, and making sure people feel included,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: understood, and accepted.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: You see, so much of change happens when you're willing to question
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: the line society has drawn for you and then step outside of them.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And we do that in a few different ways.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Through our Step Out of Line podcast, speaking engagements, community work,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: fundraising, and partnerships,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: we try to shine a light on issues that don't always get enough attention.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: A big part of my speaking work is bringing disability inclusion into conversations
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: in the corporate world, healthcare, and academia.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because true accessibility shouldn't be an afterthought.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: It should be part of the conversation from the beginning.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: One of the projects I'm especially passionate about right now is the PERI Project,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: which we launched in 2025.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: We create self-care kits for parents and caregivers of children
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: in pediatric hospital settings because,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: as someone who has spent a lot of time in hospitals myself,
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I know how easy it is for the caregiver to completely disappear
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: and experience extreme burnout when stepping into the role of taking care
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: of someone else.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: We have now distributed more than 300 care packages to caregivers
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: at several children's hospitals.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: The goal is simple.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Remind caregivers that their mental health matters too,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: and that they deserve to be cared for while they're caring for their children.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, Team Perry isn't just a nonprofit.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's really an extension of everything I believe in.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's about taking the things that have challenged me,
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: turning them into something positive,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: and hopefully making the world a little more accessible,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: inclusive and compassionate for the next person.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's what stepping out of line means to me.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about breaking rules just for the sake of breaking them.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's about looking at the rules systems and expectations that aren't working
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: for everyone and having the courage to say maybe we can do this differently.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: I Absolutely love that that's what you're putting your heart and soul into.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: And you've raised over a million dollars at this point, too, I think you said.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: How have you raised that money?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Have you just reached out to individual donors?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds like a big feat.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: For 15 years, we raised money for a different organization.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: This was before we did a non-profit.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: This was like growing up.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: We raised money for a different organization.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we raised a million dollars for them.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Between the foundation and also my work,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: raising money for that organization.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: We have raised over a million dollars because of everything
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: that the foundation now does and what we did in the past because it all fell
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: under King Perry.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it was all us.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: We just weren't a foundation then.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're a foundation.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I personally reached out to my mom also.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: We do letters, we mail physical letters to people,
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: because we found that physical mail has more of an impact than emails.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: We do email also,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: and then I have options sometimes, like chariots,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: we do celebrity packages of experiences.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have like one big comment here every year.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Here is November 15th So,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'll bring it from the moment.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: Moving and we have raffles.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so it's been about 15 years that you've been raising that money and you said
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: that you have an event on November 15th? Yeah.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's incredible.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I will drop your link to Team Perry Foundation in The show notes,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: but it's teamperry.org if you want to go and check it out and learn more about it.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: Perry has been working tirelessly since you were 10, 11, 11 years old,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: raising money, it sounds like, if I'm doing the math correctly.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I wonder, with all of these amazing things that you've done,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: and you've done so much in your 26 years, it's very inspiring.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: What words of wisdom do you have for other women listening out there?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: My biggest piece of advice is don't be afraid to be who you are.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Your authentic self.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Life is not about being perfect.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: And believe me, I'm learning that lesson in real time.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just ask me about the one tiny typo in my recently published book.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, there is a typo.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, am I beating myself up about it? Absolutely.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm only human.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: But the funny thing is, that typo is actually completely on brand with the message of my book.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: My life is anything but perfect.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm done pretending that it is.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And let's be honest, typos happen to the best and brightest authors.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Even J.K. Rowling and Mark Twain have had them.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, in a weird way, that page is actually a perfect representation of The Velvet Bow
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: and other dark shit.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's imperfect, it's messy, it's human, and it's real.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: I could obsess over that one little mistake
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: and let it overshadow everything else I've accomplished.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Or I can learn from it and keep moving forward.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: So my words of wisdom are, be yourself, step out of line, embrace the mess,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: and don't be afraid of rejection.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: And if life throws a tiny typo at you along the way, roll with that too.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because perfection was never the goal.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Being authentically you is.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that's the mic drop, Perry.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: Seriously.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for telling us all these things and for, I don't know, writing your book.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot wait to read it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to order my copy today and I'm gonna to learn so much more about you
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: and I hope that other people will follow suit because this has been really,
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: really special to have this conversation with you today.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening, share it with someone.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have more people.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly. Share it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, subscribe, share.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Give us a five-star review everywhere.
• 33:03
  [music]