Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / From Passion to Provenance: William Ross and the Art of Collector Car Brokerage

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From Passion to Provenance: William Ross and the Art of Collector Car Brokerage · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  BreakFix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from
• 0:04
  all over the autosphere, from wrench turners and racers to artists, authors,
• 0:09
  designers, and everything in between.
• 0:11
  Our goal is to inspire a new generation of petrolheads that wonder How did they
• 0:17
  get that job or become that person?
• 0:19
  The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.
• 0:27
  A bespoke showcase, uniquely incorporating Porsche DNA at its heart.
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  Authenticity and legitimacy due to the family position of the
• 0:36
  company's founder and international car designer Christopher Reitz.
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  Design and styling cues interpreted from iconic road and racing Porsches
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  of the past combined with Feuerbach hand built craftsmanship and ultra
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  low production creating for each owner a supercar that's like no other.
• 0:55
  With over 20 years of experience in the automotive market, our guests
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  can source and sell that specific exotic collector car that you desire.
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  Some of you might know or have bought from William Ross, the founder of the
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  Porsche and Ferrari marketplaces, but most recently he has taken on the role
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  as sales director at Fuhrerbach Porsche.
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  And he's here to talk to us about how you can purchase your first
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  or maybe your next collector car.
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  Welcome to Break Fix, William.
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  Hey, thanks for having me.
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  I appreciate it.
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  Like we always say on this show, everybody has an origin story, but I had to start
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  off with, well, who's William Ross?
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  You know, you have quite the extensive automotive past.
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  How did you get started?
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  This sounds like I met my therapist.
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  Who am I?
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  I guess you're going way back to the start, how this all got in my blood.
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  Since I could walk, I've always had something to do.
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  I had wheels and a motor, started riding and racing motorcycles at five.
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  Then got into carts and still motorcycles, then moved into cars.
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  And as you get older, you know, you get stuff that's bigger and faster.
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  So it's just kind of, I've always been in that aspect of it.
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  And it's always been in my blood.
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  I guess, you know, the petrol head in me through and through.
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  So it's just one of those things wanting to be involved somehow, some way to
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  earn your living and be in part of it.
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  So it's like finding that right way that, Hey, I can do something I
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  love and also pay my bills with it.
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  And I've just been fortunate enough to be, I don't want to say the right
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  place, right time, but you know, just, you know, you follow your passion and
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  usually you can figure out ways to support yourself and have fun doing it.
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  The adage is, you know, if you do something that you love, you
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  won't work a day in your life.
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  That's kind of my motto and what I've usually just done
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  pretty much my whole life.
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  You know, you meet a lot of great people, the industry, the market, everything,
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  the racing side of it, even much more so.
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  It's very family oriented.
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  Great industry and great thing to be a part of and be involved in.
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  You're very right about that.
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  I mean, you're very passionate about cars and, you know, you look at your
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  LinkedIn posts and things like that.
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  You're always posting something, you know, from the past, especially, but
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  always inspiring and bringing us back into the heyday of motorsports, but
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  always surrounding Porsches and Ferraris.
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  What's the affinity behind those two?
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  It's just the two marquees that I've always been just really
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  passionate and attracted to.
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  You know, I love everything out there.
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  That's also built Mercedes is great.
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  You know, I've had plenty of BMWs in my life and Mercedes.
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  The lineage, the history, the passion is tied to those two.
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  Enzo, what he did with Ferrari built for us.
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  And then Ferrari did with Porsche, you know, and just coming up, it's, you know,
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  respectful of what they were able to accomplish, especially in the times that
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  they started manufacturing and building those cars, Enzo basically started around
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  the time when world war II was coming out and, you know, It was with Alfa
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  Romeo, but then the war hit and he was doing spindles and that kind of stuff.
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  And then got into the cars and then very, you know, he unfortunately had to do some
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  stuff for, we won't mention anyone's name.
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  Got away from that, was able to build what he could, you know, under scrutiny.
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  I want to say persecution, but you know, a lot of people
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  didn't want to deal with them.
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  And the fact is just because of what his history was.
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  And it was unfortunate, but persevered and got through it.
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  You know, the great thing about Porsche, you look at what he was able to do,
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  in essence, a Volkswagen engine.
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  It's a little boxer engine, air cooled, but then he took the car and light, fast,
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  you know, and just made it what it is.
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  You know, Enzo, his most important aspect of the car is the engine.
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  The body's just built around it for the engines to go faster.
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  If you want to turn, go do something else.
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  You know, it's just all about speed.
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  Those are two brands I've always just been really drawn to.
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  I just, their history, the lineage, just everything done,
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  especially in motorsports.
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  That probably is one of the biggest factors too, is just, you know,
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  what they've done historically wise, you know, they conquered many,
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  many of different types of racing.
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  So it's, and me being the racer that I am, it's just kind of respect, I guess.
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  And what's ironic about that is it's probably the one of the
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  longest bloodiest feuds between two manufacturers in the motorsports world.
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  If there ever was one, right, you see all the time.
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  Oh, well, you know, Mercedes at the top of formula one and
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  Toyota just won Le Mans again.
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  And then, and then that, but there's nothing nearly as just Wrenching
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  as the wars between Porsche and Ferrari, and it's across all the
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  different disciplines of motor sport.
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  You know, Lamont's 23 coming up here.
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  We go again.
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  Porsche says, I'm coming out with the LMP, you know, GTP car.
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  And Ferrari goes, so are we.
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  We'll see you there, right?
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  I told my wife that does it look, I go, um, plan our vacation next
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  year as we're going to Lamont.
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  Cause it's going to be unbelievable.
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  I mean, not just those two marquees.
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  I mean, you got all these other manufacturers come back and
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  a shout out to Glickenhaus.
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  I tell you what, they're holding their own great to see a small
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  specialist like that be able to hold their own again, especially,
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  you know, going against Toyota.
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  I think they did well, you got some mega companies spending 500, 600, if not
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  more on their racing program for that.
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  And Glickenhaus comes in, they're spending, you know,
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  maybe 10, 15 million a year.
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  Be able to do what they can and they're just going to get better.
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  It's going to be awesome next year for that series.
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  I just love the fact that it's taken so long for both sides of
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  the pond to finally agree, look, let's stop battling each other.
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  Let's make this work for both entities.
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  So the manufacturers can do both instead of having to pick and choose, which
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  is going to be the one where they want to focus their marketing dollars on.
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  Is it going to be the United States and that market?
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  Are we going to take, let's go Europe.
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  It's awesome to see that they finally realize that, Hey,
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  they need to play together.
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  The upcoming partnership between WEC and IMSA, I think is a long time
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  coming, not only for the racers and the organizers, but for the fans as well,
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  because it just got confusing with the classes and this car runs here and runs
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  there, but it's not the same, but it isn't, you know, and I think that's a
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  good turn of the page looking forward, especially at the hundredth year.
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  anniversary of the first running of Le Mans being next year.
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  But let's step backwards into part of your career in both the
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  Porsche and Ferrari marketplaces.
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  What was that all about?
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  It's one of those situations where I was at a time on the restoration side.
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  some fab shops, not so much doing the complete restoration, but actually
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  handling specific metal fabrication of parts for the manufacturing side.
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  And so you start dealing with clients.
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  They have one car, they got 10 cars kind of flows in the conversation.
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  You get them to start talking and then they say, well, I might
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  be thinking about selling this.
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  I think you might know anybody.
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  Well, as a matter of fact, I do, because so and so over here, he's working on
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  this, but I know he wants to get that.
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  It's just connections and networking, and it just kind of went from there, grew
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  and grew, turned into a job, so to speak.
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  And I hate calling it a job, because it's not really a job, because I love
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  what I do, but it just grew from that.
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  It took a lot of time, but it's just getting to know people and meeting
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  people, and we'll touch on it, you know, later in this conversation.
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  People don't realize a lot of transactions, In the collector car
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  world, especially the dollar marks, you hit, you start getting at that 500,
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  000 and up, or especially when you're in seven figure ranging up 50 to 60
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  percent are done behind the scenes.
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  If not, maybe a little bit more.
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  It's just done amongst people that know people because they don't
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  really want their business being put out there for public in the world.
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  And once you post something somewhere with evaluation to it, saying, Hey,
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  I want X, that's where your thing, you're saying what the cars were.
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  You know, same kind of thing, taking cars to auction, you're kind of pigeonholing
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  yourself to what the value could be.
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  You look at the history of the car ownership, racing history.
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  There's so much you can tack onto a car that adds value to it.
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  And this day and age, you know, the research you can do, and there's so
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  many individuals out there and companies that can get you that history and
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  photos, everything, documentation.
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  People want something that's got that something to it, not just something
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  that Bob down the street owned it for 20 years and just kind of drove it around
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  the block and went to church with it.
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  That was it.
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  They want something tangible.
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  They want something that's got some history to it because they
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  love talking about their cars.
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  Kind of going back to like why Porsche and Ferrari, those seem to be the ones
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  that I dealt with the most when that seemed to be the cars seem to have
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  the most action in regards to people moving them, selling them, trading
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  them, doing all that kind of stuff.
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  So it just kind of went that way.
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  Folks that listen to this show have probably realized by now, you know, I'm
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  a big fan of the nine 14 and there's plenty of them out there, but there's
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  a difference between buying a nine 14, six GT, or even a replica nine,
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  14, six GT and buying the Duval Sunoco number five, or by the Jaeger Meister
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  nine 14, which by the way was the first Jaeger Meister liveried Porsche
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  was a nine 14, six GT stuff like that.
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  The value it's priceless.
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  There is no value.
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  And to your point, The minute you put, let's say, the Jagermeister 914 up on the
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  auction block, suddenly it becomes real.
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  Suddenly, it has a limit.
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  It has that glass ceiling, right?
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  Versus, I guess, those behind the scenes sales are more like selling fine art.
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  It doesn't get talked about, but you know it happens, and
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  they're moving around, right?
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  Oh, exactly.
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  That's it completely.
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  You put it in an auction environment or you put it just selling wise, but
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  in auction environment, you know, you got two people bidding on it.
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  The one person that really wants it will just go that much higher that
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  he has to than the another person.
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  Whereas that guy that really wants the car would have spent 50 percent more or
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  something, but if he spoke to someone new or reached out and find out, cause
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  he wanted that car and just what it was.
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  And you know, a lot of these means something to a lot of people too.
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  They have a connection to it.
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  It really kind of helps regarding value wise and what it's actually worth.
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  So as a broker of fine automobiles, when you were dealing with the Porsches and
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  the Ferraris, did you run the gamut or did you have to narrow your focus and say,
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  no, I'm not going to sell 944s and 308s.
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  I'm only going to sell these types of cars, maybe air cooled
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  Porsches or only 250 series Ferraris or something like that.
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  How did you limit or was your scope very, very wide?
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  No, it's limited.
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  If when I started now, obviously to be stopped, you're going to start
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  with everything, then you start really have to narrow your focus.
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  I want to say become that specialist, but you know, everything I deal in
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  basically in the Ferrari side, it's your fifties, sixties, early seventies.
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  Now I'll get into the two eight eight GTOs, F forties, you know, a lot
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  of Ferraris and that kind of stuff.
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  You have the higher dollar stuff, you know, that are
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  very special collectible side.
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  Porsche, basically the same thing, all air cooled stuff.
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  But I'll get into some of the stuff that's a little on the rare side.
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  That's a bit newer, but not a lot, very, very little.
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  If I have a client that I've dealt with for a long time, and for some
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  reason they're looking for 2014 four liter or whatnot, okay, I'll help.
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  Of course, but it's not something I'll actively go out and pursue or do.
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  I want to say they're a dime a dozen, but you go through any of the books, you go
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  through sports car marketplace, you can put any of the magazines or you go online.
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  There's so many miles there to deal.
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  Hey, we just, whatever you want.
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  If it's got a course badge on it, Hey, we sell it.
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  You know, you really spread yourself thin.
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  Yeah.
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  You're going to find one or two people out there that really know everything.
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  Cause that's all they did was immerse themselves.
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  You want to know what you're dealing with, the specifics, history, background.
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  They only built X amount of these with that and everything along those lines.
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  I really narrowed my focus to those, uh, I can say years and models in both marquees.
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  Yeah.
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  So let's say you ran from the 50s up through almost the Malaise era or the
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  beginning of the Malaise era, where obviously in the Porsche world, that's
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  where the 924s and 44s were introduced, the 930 turbos came on the scene, in the
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  928s you started to get these more almost commodity Porsches at that point, and the
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  same with Ferrari, you had the 308 was on the main stage thanks to Magnum PI and
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  all that kind of stuff, but if you look at the times ahead of that, from let's
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  say the 80s forward, Are there some rare cars in there that would fit the mold?
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  And I'm going to throw an example out here for you.
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  Something like the Carrera GT, which is so unique in the Porsche world,
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  that it's an instant classic that then runs right alongside of some of these
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  vintage cars you're dealing with.
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  Are there other ones like that, that you've handpicked out of the modern era?
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  Oh yeah, the GT one, the Carrera GT, definitely, you know, you get
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  those special, and I think Porsche is kind of, I want to say jumped on
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  that bandwagon, but they've started doing limited run on certain miles.
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  Like that new sport classic they're coming out with.
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  Tried to get on the list for that thing, but that was just impossible.
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  That thing's gorgeous.
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  It's a great car.
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  They're only doing 1250 of them, stuff like that.
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  You start getting into where, yes, because you're talking 1250 worldwide.
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  All of a sudden you got a very rare marketable car, you're going
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  to have a lot of people clamoring for something along those lines.
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  As soon as they announced that, my email box and phone was blowing
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  up wanting to try and get one.
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  I was able to help a couple people out.
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  They paid the premium, but they wanted it.
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  I want to say it's a case by case basis.
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  Going on the Ferrari side, say a 360 or especially a 430, manual, okay?
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  The 360s, you know, you can find the manuals not easily, but relative easily.
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  But the 430 manuals, now those are very difficult to hire.
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  You can pay a premium.
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  They hardly build any in the 430.
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  So you're getting the kind of those ones, the rarity of them.
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  And if there was such a limited build of them, I'll definitely get into it.
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  Because those are the ones that people are really starting to want, especially
• 13:29
  on the Ferrari side with the manuals.
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  If it's got a six speed in it, you're going to pay through
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  the teeth on the newer stuff.
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  It's finding those ones.
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  And it gets kind of fun with those, especially them being newer.
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  You're not afraid to drive them.
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  It's better ownership experience, especially for the person that
• 13:43
  that's the only Ferrari, or that's one that they'll ever buy, or the
• 13:46
  first one they've ever bought.
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  It's like, look, if you want something analog, you want to be part of it.
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  Getting to the newer stuff, it's pick and choose, but you know, there it's
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  got to be something special about it.
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  To be involved in part of it.
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  So does that apply to the newest of the new as well?
• 14:01
  And I'm referencing basically the EVs, right?
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  We have things like the Tecan and on the Ferrari side.
• 14:06
  I cringe every time I say the words, Ferrari, SUV, these things
• 14:09
  that are coming to bear to market.
• 14:11
  Now, are they gonna be collectible in the future or are they
• 14:14
  just gonna be commonplace?
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  I don't see 'em being collectible.
• 14:18
  I, I honestly don't.
• 14:20
  Sorry.
• 14:21
  Uh, EVs, there's so many manufacturers coming out with an EV, the herd will get
• 14:26
  thin who's can last, but I just don't see it because until they can create
• 14:31
  the battery for the car that can last and you can recharge it, you know, in
• 14:36
  five minutes, 10 minutes, what have you, I mean, there's, I just don't see it.
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  And.
• 14:41
  The car won't last the battery, but those things will change so much in
• 14:45
  regards to design capability, you know, what the battery can perform.
• 14:49
  I just don't see that being a clutch because it'll be a
• 14:51
  paperweight sitting there.
• 14:52
  It's unfortunate because like that Tican, gorgeous car.
• 14:55
  I love that the Sport Turismo is awesome.
• 14:57
  I'm a big wagon fan.
• 14:58
  I love wagons.
• 14:59
  You know, I, I think that's gorgeous when I get one at two, yeah, but I
• 15:02
  mean, I don't think I'd pay that much for it because you won't be able to
• 15:05
  go on a road trip because I'm not a person who likes to sit somewhere for
• 15:08
  a couple of hours, charging up my car, trying to figure out something to do.
• 15:11
  I just don't see it being collectibles.
• 15:12
  I just don't see it happening.
• 15:13
  I mean, will they hold value?
• 15:15
  Yeah, but they're not going to be something 20 years from now, you're
• 15:18
  going to be paying, you know, five times what sticker was or 10 times sticker.
• 15:21
  I just don't see it happening.
• 15:22
  You said you liked wagons.
• 15:23
  What do you think of that Ferrari station wagon that came out a couple years ago?
• 15:27
  Cool.
• 15:27
  Cool.
• 15:27
  You know about the FF and the GT4 Lusso now?
• 15:30
  Yes, yes.
• 15:31
  Honest and butt ugly.
• 15:35
  Yeah, I'll be honest, I don't, I don't like a whole lot of punches.
• 15:37
  When I drive one, heck yeah.
• 15:39
  It's a great car because it's all wheel drive.
• 15:41
  You can put some all season or winter tires on it.
• 15:43
  Drive it winter, just eight.
• 15:44
  have some fun, but I just ugly.
• 15:48
  Well, let me ask yo on, say you're in the boa to decide between the
• 15:58
  ven Oh, they have 40 all day long.
• 16:03
  I love that nine, five nines.
• 16:04
  Great.
• 16:05
  You know, I've driven one it's phenomenal.
• 16:07
  I mean, just what you get out of it, but I've also had the opportunity.
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  This is some years ago, but I drove an F40 once, you know, it wasn't very long.
• 16:14
  It wasn't like I had all day with it, but God, the experience of that F40, it's
• 16:18
  such a, just, I would say bare bones car.
• 16:21
  If you ever even sat in one, you get the feeling.
• 16:23
  So you just look inside, there's nothing in that interior.
• 16:27
  You got your engine right behind you, your two seats, you got your steering wheel,
• 16:31
  your pedals and the gear selector and go.
• 16:32
  I mean, it's such a raw experience, man.
• 16:35
  It's just phenomenal all day long.
• 16:37
  It'd be the F40.
• 16:38
  You know, I've heard it described.
• 16:40
  Many times that the nine 59, it was space age technology in the late eighties
• 16:46
  and it was well ahead of its time.
• 16:48
  And it still sort of is.
• 16:50
  And there's a lot of things that newer Porsches take from it.
• 16:53
  It is technologically superior.
• 16:55
  It is an amazing piece of German engineering, but the F 40 is
• 16:59
  like when fire was presented to the cave men for the first time.
• 17:03
  And suddenly like, You ignite and you're lit with passion.
• 17:07
  And it's like, Oh my God, this is the ultimate vehicle ever built ever.
• 17:11
  It's just, it doesn't matter how good the 959 is.
• 17:14
  You said it right there in your comment.
• 17:16
  German engineering is so it's buttoned up tight collar.
• 17:19
  I mean, everything's to its nth degree engineered wise and stuff like that.
• 17:23
  Then you got the Italians over there.
• 17:25
  Oh, just build it.
• 17:25
  We'll go.
• 17:26
  It's two completely different things.
• 17:28
  And you're right.
• 17:30
  A hundred percent.
• 17:30
  Bruce Canavan, what he's doing out in California with the 959s,
• 17:34
  upgrade them and do what he's doing.
• 17:35
  No, he's just making them that much better.
• 17:37
  They're fabulous cars, but it's just two completely different driving experiences.
• 17:41
  And it goes back to that rivalry, right?
• 17:43
  If there was a rivalry for the modern times, it's still those two cars.
• 17:48
  We can go back to that point in automotive history and go 959 versus F40.
• 17:53
  I mean, Ferrari versus Porsche all the way.
• 17:55
  Oh yeah, completely, completely.
• 17:57
  So let's step back into your origin story just a little bit.
• 18:00
  So what is 65 Motorsports?
• 18:02
  That's pretty much my umbrella company that I put everything under.
• 18:07
  The 65 is actually a number I raised.
• 18:09
  So I just created 65 Motorsports.
• 18:10
  I basically run everything under that, but I took that entity.
• 18:15
  kind of transitioned it into events and fundraising type stuff
• 18:18
  under that umbrella under 65.
• 18:21
  We all know that Cleveland rocks and you're from the greater Cleveland
• 18:24
  area, but a lot of people might not know that you were the chairman and
• 18:28
  founder of something known as Rocks and revs touted as one of the most
• 18:32
  exciting automotive concours in the country, combining cars and music
• 18:36
  and how they influence one another.
• 18:39
  And we actually talked about this on several other episodes.
• 18:42
  So I want to get your take on why a concour, what influenced you to start it?
• 18:46
  And let's dig into rocks and revs just a little bit more.
• 18:49
  Why not send it?
• 18:52
  You know, I go to all these events.
• 18:54
  throughout the years, all over the country.
• 18:56
  One day, I'm like, why do we not have an event like that here in Cleveland?
• 19:02
  The North Coast Harbor's got the Rock Roll Hall of Fame, the Great Lakes Science
• 19:05
  Center, and the Browns stand right there.
• 19:06
  It's all on the waterfront.
• 19:07
  Gorgeous area to host something.
• 19:09
  So I said, Hey, let me make a phone call to the Rock Roll Hall
• 19:12
  of Fame, see if they're interested.
• 19:13
  Call them up.
• 19:14
  Yeah, that sounds great.
• 19:15
  I'm interested.
• 19:15
  Call the Science Center.
• 19:16
  Yeah, that'd be great.
• 19:17
  Call the Browns.
• 19:18
  Oh, definitely.
• 19:19
  We'd like to be a part of something along those lines.
• 19:21
  Okay, so I think I might have something here.
• 19:23
  Call the city of Cleveland, set up a meeting, bam, they're on board.
• 19:26
  Love the idea.
• 19:27
  Yeah, go ahead.
• 19:28
  Let's do this.
• 19:28
  Whatever we got to do to help you.
• 19:29
  Hey, put it all together.
• 19:31
  So it just kind of grew from that.
• 19:33
  It's kind of say, Hey, look, you know, music influences cars,
• 19:35
  cars, influence music, both ways.
• 19:37
  Rock and roll, rock and reps just kind of came together real quick.
• 19:40
  The science centered aspect of it is we're trying to create the history of
• 19:43
  the car where it went from where it came.
• 19:45
  So it works out perfectly in regards to what we can have at the event.
• 19:48
  You know, we have miles ahead on board, they're going to
• 19:50
  set up, they do a fundraising.
• 19:52
  What they do is they set up a track with electric carts, which is awesome.
• 19:55
  So we got them on board.
• 19:56
  So we have a couple of things come out.
• 19:57
  We're raffling off a 1972 Corvette.
• 20:01
  That's where one of the places we're raising money for, for Island
• 20:03
  Safe Harbor Animal Sanctuary.
• 20:05
  The other entities involved, you know, Make A Wish and the Cleveland
• 20:08
  Clinic Pediatric College Department.
• 20:10
  And we're pretty close.
• 20:11
  Hopefully we can get University Hospitals, Rainbow Babies Children's Hospital
• 20:14
  also as one of the beneficiaries.
• 20:17
  They're all involved because I'm a wish granter and I work with Make A Wish.
• 20:21
  I volunteer at the Island State Harbor Animal Sanctuary.
• 20:24
  It's one of those things where it just made sense.
• 20:26
  I always live life, it's easier to ask.
• 20:28
  If someone says no, all right, hey, you gave it a shot.
• 20:30
  But everyone I spoke to and everyone I got to is, So enthusiastic about it and got to
• 20:35
  the point where I guess I got to do this.
• 20:36
  So we're on schedule for next year to have our inaugural event.
• 20:39
  And one of the other cool things I'm trying to get set up with the
• 20:42
  Model T club of Northern Ohio.
• 20:44
  We want to have it where we'll teach you how to drive a Model T like over an hour.
• 20:48
  They'll teach how to drive it.
• 20:49
  Cause I don't know if you've ever driven one or been in those seats.
• 20:51
  They're fun.
• 20:52
  Once you get to figure it out or take it for a ride, we're trying
• 20:55
  to have the events within the event to generate more money.
• 20:58
  In regards to that, that we can, you know, donate to the entities involved.
• 21:02
  So that being said, what do you think is the best pairing
• 21:04
  in terms of music era and car?
• 21:07
  Oh, that's a tough one.
• 21:10
  Obviously, I go into got with the beach boys, kind of get in the sixties.
• 21:14
  If you think of Janis Joplin and her Porsche, you kind of go in the
• 21:17
  seventies and I always go right to a lot of the guys, especially John Bonham
• 21:20
  from Led Zeppelin and the cars he had.
• 21:22
  He had some great cars.
• 21:23
  Outrageous stuff.
• 21:24
  And then you go into the eighties, the Jaguar calling over it's always there.
• 21:28
  So a specific one, I wouldn't say like, Oh, it's always gotta be this.
• 21:32
  I mean, I'm a big fan of music and I listened to all genres, you know,
• 21:36
  everything from the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties.
• 21:39
  Oh, you see that influence there.
• 21:41
  And I don't know if you ever had the opportunity.
• 21:42
  I wouldn't listen to you on the rock hall.
• 21:44
  You know, they have a lot of stuff in there.
• 21:46
  It kind of goes along those lines, you know, songs that
• 21:48
  were influenced by a car and.
• 21:50
  So is there an ultimate music video car?
• 21:53
  Well, you'd have to go with the Ferrari, and I can't drive 55 from Sammy Hagar.
• 21:58
  Oh, that's a good one.
• 21:59
  You know, that car was the focal point of the video, him
• 22:02
  driving, you know, everything.
• 22:03
  It was, you know, it wasn't kind of in the background.
• 22:05
  It didn't have some woman crawling all over it.
• 22:07
  You know, it was the car, it was getting wrung out.
• 22:10
  In my mind, that was probably one of the ones I remember the most is that one.
• 22:13
  Before we transition to talking about Fuhrerbach, one last
• 22:17
  Pitstop question for you.
• 22:18
  What's the sexiest car of all time in your opinion?
• 22:22
  Most beautiful, gorgeous, whatever adjective you'd like to use.
• 22:26
  It's going to be probably a cliche or whatnot, but my mind is the 250 GTO.
• 22:31
  A lot of people say, Oh, you know, the E type, you know, Enzo, you
• 22:34
  said it was the most beautiful car you ever seen, that kind of stuff.
• 22:37
  You go up on a GTO and you're like right next to it.
• 22:39
  And smelling it and putting your head inside whatnot.
• 22:42
  I mean, that's one I've never had the opportunity to drive or even
• 22:44
  go for a ride in, unfortunately.
• 22:46
  So fingers crossed one of these days, but you don't realize how small it
• 22:49
  is till you're standing next to it.
• 22:51
  You see one person, it's small.
• 22:53
  You look at the photos, you think, Oh, it's kind of some big, long photos.
• 22:56
  It's like, no, I think small.
• 22:57
  And again, it kind of just to the rawness of it.
• 23:00
  That car, when it was built, there really were no drawings done.
• 23:03
  They just built it, put it together.
• 23:05
  And it started with the one designer kind of finished with the other, what
• 23:07
  they came up with was phenomenal.
• 23:09
  And look, it's racing history.
• 23:11
  I want to say unbeatable, but that thing was pretty close to it.
• 23:14
  To me, I think that's just one of the most beautiful cars ever made.
• 23:16
  A long history in the automotive world, and now you find
• 23:21
  yourself at Führerbach Porsche.
• 23:23
  Tell us, what is Führerbach?
• 23:25
  What do you do in there?
• 23:26
  What's it all about?
• 23:27
  I'd known one of the individuals for a little while, and he did work and stuff
• 23:32
  with Chris Reitz, who's the designer.
• 23:34
  Anyone knows Chris or looks him up, he said he was head of
• 23:37
  design at Alfa Romeo and Nissan.
• 23:38
  He is a member of the Porsche family tree, so it's got that DNA in it.
• 23:43
  When they show me the initial drawings of it, my jaw dropped.
• 23:46
  I was like, this thing is absolutely stunning.
• 23:48
  But what he's got, he's got the homage to the 60s cars, the Abarths and that, taking
• 23:54
  the hood scoop, minimalized the interior.
• 23:56
  It was just a gorgeous, gorgeous car.
• 23:59
  And I really liked what we're putting together in regards to when you look
• 24:03
  at it and know what it is and what we're building immediately, everyone's
• 24:06
  going to think a Singer because they're the big whale in the room.
• 24:09
  They kind of started this craze, but you know, they're taking, you know, The nine
• 24:12
  64 series and that nicely three series.
• 24:14
  And I always say, yo, they're basically tightening them up, cleaning
• 24:18
  up the lines and just taking the interior, going to the nines on them.
• 24:22
  They're gorgeous cars, but that's one of those situations where
• 24:24
  you see that going down the road.
• 24:26
  It sounds good.
• 24:26
  Don't know it's a nine 11, but they're not going to know it's a singer.
• 24:29
  Less someone knows cars or loves cars with this.
• 24:32
  Yo, especially you're taking a newer generation car, the nine, nine, seven
• 24:35
  series cars, turn them into a mid engine car, like the RSR race cars.
• 24:39
  And just changing all the body panels out because it gets
• 24:42
  stripped down to the shell.
• 24:44
  And then it's all carbon fiber body panels bespoke to the owner.
• 24:47
  And we're only building 25 of them.
• 24:49
  It's very exclusive regards to ownership.
• 24:53
  I really like that aspect of it because it's not just like, Hey, we'll just
• 24:56
  start taking as many deposits as we can.
• 24:58
  And when we get to it, we'll build you a car.
• 25:00
  We're limited what it was, you know, we'll have subsequent models
• 25:02
  that also come out after this one.
• 25:04
  I love the 911.
• 25:05
  It's a great car.
• 25:07
  What Chris was able to do with this car design wise, it just really
• 25:10
  took it to a different level.
• 25:12
  Everyone I've showed initial stuff to just rant and rave about it.
• 25:15
  It's a fantastic car.
• 25:17
  The entities we got involved that are doing the building of the car,
• 25:20
  manufacturing of it, all the components going into it, you're picking the best
• 25:24
  of the best and putting them on the car and just making something that is
• 25:29
  going to be built wise, structure wise.
• 25:32
  Just performance wise, it's going to be a fabulous, fabulous car.
• 25:35
  We're excited about it.
• 25:37
  And I'm really excited about it.
• 25:38
  Cause it's not taking something brand new, building it from scratch.
• 25:41
  Like, Hey, we're going to build a whole brand new car, but it almost
• 25:43
  is kind of along those lines.
• 25:45
  We're taking a car and building a new car.
• 25:47
  It's an exciting process to be involved with, especially from day one, going
• 25:51
  through the process in regards to, okay, getting everything put together,
• 25:54
  getting the manufacturing side of it, what are we going to put in it?
• 25:56
  Okay.
• 25:57
  What's our message?
• 25:58
  What's our brain?
• 25:59
  I really enjoy doing that.
• 26:00
  And it was something that I jumped in wholeheartedly with
• 26:02
  when they approached me about it.
• 26:04
  So outside of becoming mid engine, is there any performance
• 26:06
  changes to the vehicle happening?
• 26:08
  Or is it still going to be whatever power plant was in the shell, whether
• 26:11
  it be a 997 normally aspirator or turbo or whatever you're working
• 26:15
  with, or is it totally new engines?
• 26:17
  If they want turbo put on it, but when we start, it's going to be the GT three
• 26:20
  engine, but what happened is that they will get completely dismantled and
• 26:23
  gone through it, but it's going to get rebuilt with Porsche Motorsport
• 26:26
  internals, camshafts and that, and just depending on what the owner wants to do.
• 26:30
  Horsepower wise, big question.
• 26:32
  You ask them, what's your intention with the car?
• 26:34
  Is this something you're going to take Canyon carving on weekends, long distance
• 26:38
  road trip, Or is it a track day car?
• 26:40
  That's the first question you ask.
• 26:41
  What is your intention with the car?
• 26:42
  What do you want to do with it?
• 26:43
  Then we build the car to what they want to do with the car.
• 26:46
  You're going to be no less than 560, 570 horsepower in the motor,
• 26:50
  you know, after it's redone, but it can just go up from there.
• 26:53
  It just depends on what you're going to do you want something that you're
• 26:56
  going to be able to drive in traffic and not have to rev it out to RPM to
• 27:02
  really enjoy it with the cam you got in it, all right, we built it that way.
• 27:05
  It's building a bespoke car for that individual.
• 27:08
  to what they want to do.
• 27:09
  Being able to have that opportunity is just fantastic.
• 27:11
  It's a lot of fun too.
• 27:12
  A couple of people we've got, you know, spoken to they're
• 27:14
  interested about getting a car.
• 27:16
  It's a completely different experience starting basically
• 27:19
  from scratch with this car.
• 27:21
  What do you want to do with it?
• 27:22
  Yeah, I asked that question to people though in other aspects looking for a
• 27:25
  Ferrari or Porsche or the classic side.
• 27:27
  What do you want to do with the car?
• 27:29
  But you know, this is completely different because, okay,
• 27:31
  now you're going to do that.
• 27:32
  We can build this set up with this boat.
• 27:34
  You know, it's so fun.
• 27:35
  I mean, it's just, it's exhilarating.
• 27:37
  This tradition of taking 9 11s and extremely modifying them
• 27:40
  goes back quite a long ways.
• 27:42
  You know, Singer wasn't the first, right?
• 27:44
  They came in line behind Ruth and Gambala and other names that were
• 27:47
  doing the same thing for decades.
• 27:50
  And so it makes me wonder though, Why always the 911?
• 27:53
  Is there no room for the next generation?
• 27:56
  Reimagine 928 or 944 or something else that's in the line?
• 28:01
  Why always the 911?
• 28:03
  I want to say the abundance availability of cars.
• 28:05
  Obviously, there's quite a few 944s out there and stuff.
• 28:08
  You know, there's a decent amount of 928s.
• 28:10
  I'm trying to remember the name.
• 28:11
  I just saw it the other day and I read an article about it.
• 28:13
  Someone is doing a 928 and going along those lines.
• 28:16
  With the 911, you have so many different choices from model years that you
• 28:21
  can tweak it to what you want, pull that engine out, you know, people
• 28:24
  stuff an LS in them if they want.
• 28:27
  What you start with, what you have, it's just, it's open to so much
• 28:30
  interpretation by the designer.
• 28:32
  I think it's just, it's an easy choice to go with because the flexibility to
• 28:37
  create your vision is that much easier.
• 28:39
  The 944, you're not going to get much out of that four cylinder engine.
• 28:43
  That doesn't mean you couldn't put a V8 in its place.
• 28:45
  I mean, you guys are putting a GT3 motor in a 997.
• 28:48
  You're kind of losing what the 944 is, and you're just creating
• 28:50
  this hot rod, so to speak.
• 28:51
  911, you're still using, That six cylinder is basically came with
• 28:56
  building it up to what this, I mean, so you kind of don't lose that.
• 28:59
  It's always different when you look at a car that, you know, it came with the four
• 29:02
  cylinder, but it's got a V8 in it now.
• 29:05
  You do have the option though, with let's say a 944 as an example to use the Audi or
• 29:10
  Volkswagen base two liter turbo, which is an excellent motor, makes tons more power.
• 29:15
  You can get 400 horsepower out of it and it's still a four banger.
• 29:18
  Maybe the thing is about though, if someone looks at the 944, see
• 29:21
  this, the poor man's Porsche.
• 29:22
  Like the 308 Ferrari, right?
• 29:24
  It's like the 308 Ferrari.
• 29:25
  As the years go on, especially as the transition goes from the gas,
• 29:29
  you know, EVs here, trying to keep the classics on the road more.
• 29:32
  I think you're going to start seeing more of those along the lines.
• 29:35
  They might electrify it.
• 29:35
  You know, look at Everati, what they're doing.
• 29:37
  They're doing a great job.
• 29:38
  Their cars are gorgeous.
• 29:39
  EV West, right?
• 29:40
  With all the old 556s and stuff.
• 29:42
  Exactly.
• 29:42
  I'm sure I've seen a lot more of them.
• 29:44
  Only time will tell.
• 29:46
  It takes someone that's got that mindset and the vision for it, and
• 29:49
  creates something that people love.
• 29:51
  Creates that demand.
• 29:52
  If you do it right, there's always a buyer out there.
• 29:54
  Maybe the real answer is you couldn't really approve on the 968, so we
• 29:58
  just have to leave it where it is.
• 29:59
  No, and you mentioned RUF.
• 30:00
  I was over in Germany a few years ago, and I went to their factory.
• 30:04
  What they put out of that was a gorgeous shop.
• 30:06
  Not very big, but that new car that they came out with, where they created the
• 30:10
  shell itself and everything like that.
• 30:11
  God, that thing is absolutely stunning.
• 30:14
  If I had the means, I would get my hands on one of those in a heartbeat.
• 30:17
  Which is actually a great segue into my next question about Fuerbach.
• 30:21
  RUF originally was doing what, you know, Singer is doing now,
• 30:24
  harvesting existing vehicles and modifying them and things like that.
• 30:28
  But RUF eventually got to the point where they started building their own chassis.
• 30:31
  They were awful close to real 911 chassis, but they weren't
• 30:35
  vinned from Porsche, right?
• 30:36
  They're RUF cars now.
• 30:38
  So, and to your point, they're bodying them.
• 30:40
  They're doing all these kinds of stuff out of their small shop there.
• 30:42
  So do you see the same sort of future at Furerbach when they move into maybe
• 30:47
  their future model lines and things like that, or will it always be based
• 30:50
  on something that came from the factory?
• 30:52
  I would love it.
• 30:53
  Cause somewhere down the road, we get to that point, but obviously
• 30:56
  that's a long process to get there.
• 30:58
  And my guess is I'll either be in the ground or I'll be going around
• 31:03
  on my jazzy scooter, you know, down in Florida where I'm a lot of plaid.
• 31:07
  That's where we want to take it and get it to that point, you know, obviously, Hey,
• 31:11
  you gotta, you know, take your first step and go, but that would be the plan and
• 31:15
  the path to take is to get to that point.
• 31:18
  Then you have so much more control over what you can build
• 31:22
  and how you want to present it.
• 31:24
  Instead of taking an existing thing, you're kind of stuck with regards to what
• 31:27
  you can do with what you're working from.
• 31:29
  Unless you start hacking it up, re engineering thing and doing
• 31:31
  all this welding to it, then, okay, well, you might as well just
• 31:33
  build a whole new car anyways.
• 31:35
  But again, when you're at that point, where are we going to be at?
• 31:37
  Is it going to have to be electric or are you going to still harvest?
• 31:40
  I mean, I don't know.
• 31:41
  I love what Porsche is doing in regards to make that push with that synthetic fuel.
• 31:45
  They make that affordable.
• 31:46
  That could be a game changer for the internal combustion engine, getting a
• 31:50
  second lease in life, so to speak, in regards to some more longevity to it.
• 31:54
  Carbon emission wise, basically zero.
• 31:56
  Solves the problem, you know, the greenhouse thing
• 31:58
  was coming out of the car.
• 31:59
  I'm really excited about that what they're doing.
• 32:01
  I don't know if you saw, you know, F1 race, but I know before Sam,
• 32:04
  you know, he had bought the red number five, Nigel's old car.
• 32:07
  He did a demonstration run it and they were running the synthetic fuel in it.
• 32:10
  Let that thing rip and there's nothing like the sound of that V10.
• 32:12
  That's just music.
• 32:14
  That's just music.
• 32:15
  In what you were saying there about, you know, building your own car, what
• 32:17
  do you end up with and all that, I think that's a tip of the hat to what
• 32:20
  you said earlier about Glickenhaus.
• 32:22
  Kind of where do you end up?
• 32:23
  You end up there with a unique vehicle that's out there kicking butt, that's
• 32:28
  designed in such a new, new but retro way.
• 32:31
  That's the one thing I want to say about those cars.
• 32:33
  We kind of take a look at what you guys are doing at Fuhrerbach, the new car.
• 32:36
  I looked at some of the pictures that are in the press material and whatnot.
• 32:39
  It's a gorgeous car.
• 32:40
  It has to your point, the lines of a Barth and Zagato, and even
• 32:44
  some of the five 50 is in there and mixed in and things like that.
• 32:47
  It's a beautiful car by no stretch of the imagination, but a lot of people are
• 32:51
  probably thinking, well, if you're only going to make 25 of them, when are we ever
• 32:54
  going to see one or people buying these as a model car, or are we going to see the
• 32:58
  first Fuerbach at Amelia or at pebble or some sort of event like that, what's the
• 33:03
  future look like for the final product?
• 33:07
  It's going to be a tight stretch to try and get for a million next year
• 33:10
  to have probably more than likely not a running, obviously driving car, but
• 33:14
  we could have a one to one scale model where we'd really have to get our ducks
• 33:18
  in a row, like right quick, like within the next month to be able to put it
• 33:21
  together, to do it, but more than likely it'd be at an event for her sometime in
• 33:25
  2023, as for like seeing it now, like we're just going to build a 25 some
• 33:29
  off and then, Hey, come across one.
• 33:32
  In a blue moon.
• 33:33
  Hey, there you go.
• 33:34
  I mean, we'll definitely have cars that we're going to
• 33:36
  take out to events and shows.
• 33:38
  We really want to build the brand and Fuhrerbach name out there.
• 33:41
  Doing those 25, the subsequent cars that go along behind it
• 33:44
  that we'll have and we'll build.
• 33:45
  We want to be able to have multiple models going on at once also.
• 33:49
  We don't want to just build 25 and disappeared and also come back a
• 33:53
  couple of years later with something else, you know, we need to stay
• 33:55
  in people's minds and out there.
• 33:57
  So we're going to be hitting events, showing people the car.
• 33:59
  Once we do have production ready car, we'll have the one where we'll send
• 34:03
  it around to all the online, you know, all the magazines, the publications,
• 34:07
  you know, driving or whatnot and get, you know, feedback and what have you.
• 34:10
  Our intent is so people will be able to see the car.
• 34:12
  Cause we want to build up that brand and the name.
• 34:15
  Yeah.
• 34:15
  And I want to remind our listeners to, you know, 25 cars, 25 cars, that's nothing,
• 34:20
  but these are hand built vehicles.
• 34:22
  There's not a lot of manufacturers that are hand building cars anymore.
• 34:26
  Even if they are being harvested from existing chassis.
• 34:30
  I mean, you look at like the story of Zampoli when he built the Susetta, he
• 34:34
  was cranking those cars out by himself.
• 34:37
  And he could only put out so many in a year.
• 34:39
  I forget what the number was.
• 34:40
  It was probably less than 20 in a year, but it was absolutely nutty.
• 34:43
  And to be able to do that and you guys have a team and you're
• 34:46
  getting all this stuff done.
• 34:47
  And 25, that's a good number for something that, you know, you're taking
• 34:51
  a car, tearing it down, re imagining it, and then putting it back out
• 34:55
  there with immense amounts of detail.
• 34:56
  I mean, again, it's a gorgeous car and I can't wait to see one in person.
• 35:00
  And hopefully one of the big shows, especially for the owner, the people
• 35:03
  that are going to buy the car.
• 35:04
  Our other goal was to make this an exclusive card.
• 35:07
  So to your point, like you say, when would you see one?
• 35:10
  You're not going to run into one of these at a cars and coffee, maybe out Malibu or
• 35:13
  something like that on one of the days.
• 35:15
  But other than that, you're not going to run into it down the corner.
• 35:18
  Sloppy Bob's bar and grill, whatever, you know, it ain't going to happen.
• 35:21
  You know, and that's what we want to build is, you know, you start getting saturation
• 35:24
  with the model and the car, then it just becomes, Oh, everyone's got one of those.
• 35:28
  Now you see them all over.
• 35:30
  We want to make it and keep it exclusive for the owners.
• 35:32
  And make it something very special that they have in their collection.
• 35:36
  Cause obviously the people that can afford to get the car are going to have
• 35:39
  multiple vehicles in their collection.
• 35:41
  We'd love to build a car that, Hey, it's for 75 grand.
• 35:44
  So anyone almost could come out and get one, but it just way the
• 35:47
  world works, it can't happen.
• 35:49
  And we just want to make this.
• 35:50
  Such a unique, valuable car to the owner, make it that special
• 35:54
  for them that they can say, I'm only one of the 25 that have one.
• 35:58
  And that's a rare club.
• 35:59
  I mean, it's like the GTO, people with the McLaren F1, you're a
• 36:03
  member of a rather exclusive club.
• 36:05
  And those guys have a lot of cool events that go on that people don't know about.
• 36:09
  Very secretive about, but they all get together and they all talk how they
• 36:12
  can make another billion dollars from each other and move on the next day.
• 36:16
  I could probably guarantee you two sightings of the vehicle.
• 36:18
  You said Malibu and it'll either be Jerry or Jay driving it.
• 36:22
  And then, and then probably at the Goodwood Festival where they're going
• 36:26
  to put a car like that on display for everybody in the world to see.
• 36:30
  So I'm looking forward to that.
• 36:31
  I'm excited about it.
• 36:33
  Exactly.
• 36:33
  Yeah.
• 36:33
  If any of your listeners out there know how to get ahold of Seinfeld,
• 36:36
  get ahold of me, let me know.
• 36:37
  Get ahold of Eric, get ahold of me.
• 36:39
  We love to hit him up.
• 36:40
  It's up his alley.
• 36:41
  Love the car.
• 36:41
  You don't know until you ask, right?
• 36:43
  That's right.
• 36:44
  There's a butt for every seat, they say.
• 36:46
  You know, we're talking about collector vehicles, especially at this point, we're
• 36:49
  talking about bespoke specialty vehicles.
• 36:51
  Many people will contest that cars are a bad investment.
• 36:56
  Is that true?
• 36:57
  You hear all over the place.
• 36:58
  Everyone says, you know, never buy a car thinking you're going to make money on it.
• 37:01
  I guess it's true to some extent.
• 37:03
  You can't go into, you're going to double your money in five years.
• 37:05
  It does happen.
• 37:07
  If you're an individual, if that's your only collectible, you have buy the car
• 37:10
  that you want to forget about, Hey, it's going out in the valley, it's going to
• 37:13
  hold its value by the car you want, be sure you buy the right car by the best
• 37:17
  car that you can afford, unless you have the wherewithal to be able to work
• 37:22
  on your car every weekend, every night of what have you and tinker with it.
• 37:25
  That's what you love to do.
• 37:26
  So be it.
• 37:27
  You're more on the side where I just like to drive, enjoy my car, go to events on
• 37:30
  it, buy the best that you can afford.
• 37:32
  Spend that extra 10, 20 grand, whatever it is, you know, if you
• 37:35
  can stretch it to that point, do it.
• 37:37
  You'll appreciate it that much more because nothing will turn
• 37:40
  you more sour on a car is when you go to drive that won't start.
• 37:43
  Or you go out there, there's a big puddle of oil, you know,
• 37:45
  it's gonna just drive you nuts.
• 37:47
  If you're in the industry and the market and you follow it very closely,
• 37:50
  and that's what you do, you'll know what to buy and what to go after.
• 37:54
  You'll see the trends.
• 37:54
  It's just like the stock market.
• 37:56
  Get into that, you're going to have your ups and downs.
• 37:58
  But if you buy something correctly, it will slowly grow.
• 38:01
  It's going to drop a little bit here and there, but over a period of time, stick
• 38:05
  with it, it's going to gain in value.
• 38:07
  You just got to buy the right car that's going to do that.
• 38:10
  It's just kind of looking at trends and looking where they go.
• 38:13
  You can never really go wrong with a sixties Ferrari front
• 38:16
  engine, V12 Enzo era car.
• 38:18
  Those will go up the value by the right Porsche.
• 38:21
  It's going to go up in value.
• 38:22
  You maintain it.
• 38:23
  You'll add to it.
• 38:23
  You know, it's going to go up.
• 38:25
  I don't want to go up one or 2 percent a year, but it's
• 38:27
  still going to go up in value.
• 38:28
  If this is the only car that you ever going to own or buy, take
• 38:31
  that out of the equation because you'll just drive yourself nuts
• 38:34
  and you'll piss yourself off.
• 38:35
  There's all set.
• 38:35
  If it loses value, it loses 10, 15%.
• 38:37
  Okay.
• 38:38
  The first couple of years you buy it, you know, you're going to get angry.
• 38:41
  And if you told your wife that, Hey, that's why you're buying it.
• 38:44
  Cause it's going to go up in value.
• 38:45
  That's how you sold her on it.
• 38:48
  You're looking like an idiot, but you know, if you got the means and you have
• 38:50
  multiple cars, you're probably going to have someone that knows advising you.
• 38:55
  There's not a lot of guys out there that really buy a car because they
• 38:57
  know it's going to go up in value.
• 38:58
  You got the gentlemen that are fortunate enough, they're on the
• 39:01
  Ferrari list and they can buy that new Ferrari that only X amount of getting,
• 39:04
  they can turn around and saw it.
• 39:05
  They'll make money.
• 39:06
  You don't necessarily buy the newest car as a collector car.
• 39:10
  I guess there's a balance there.
• 39:11
  Granted, the guy that bought the 300 SL Gullwing Mercedes when it
• 39:15
  was new and everybody told him was a fool for buying it because,
• 39:18
  hey, that's a depreciating asset.
• 39:19
  Why would you buy that stupid car with those goofy doors hold
• 39:22
  onto that car for 40, 50 years?
• 39:25
  And suddenly it went from, yeah, that was a 6, 000 car in the sixties.
• 39:30
  And now it's a 600, 000 car.
• 39:33
  You have to have, to your point, a little bit of a crystal ball, but
• 39:36
  you can't just buy everything, right?
• 39:37
  Commodity vehicles.
• 39:39
  There's even commodity supercars.
• 39:40
  There's even commodity exotics.
• 39:42
  I mean, I hate to say, look at some of the Lamborghinis post Audi
• 39:46
  era, where they're all basically R8s with different skins on them.
• 39:50
  There's a million of them because they became super popular and
• 39:52
  everybody wanted a Lamborghini again.
• 39:55
  But it's that performante, it's that, you know, whatever, super Leggera
• 39:59
  version that they only made 12 of, like the Bugatti Divo, they made 41 of them.
• 40:03
  That's the car to buy.
• 40:05
  Now that's on the extreme end of this.
• 40:08
  I mean, we have different levels of collector.
• 40:10
  The guy that bought the Viper, the original Viper when it came
• 40:13
  out, that's a whole nother story.
• 40:14
  That car has also gained in value.
• 40:16
  So, Is it always sports cars?
• 40:19
  Probably not.
• 40:19
  Is it always the rarest of the rare?
• 40:21
  Probably not.
• 40:22
  But to your point, it's what's makes you happy, but I think you need to hold on to
• 40:26
  it in order to see that value over time.
• 40:29
  It's not something that you can sit in your mind and think, okay, I'm
• 40:31
  gonna buy this in three to four years.
• 40:33
  Now I'm going to flip it and make all this money on it or make something.
• 40:36
  It's a long term investment where you need to hold on to it for 10,
• 40:39
  15, 20 years and maintaining it.
• 40:42
  And keeping that a great level of performance and keeping that
• 40:46
  value there, you can't just sit and go buy it, park it, and let it
• 40:49
  sit under a tarp in your garage.
• 40:51
  Then all of a sudden, 15 years later, you to turn around and
• 40:53
  sell it for all this money.
• 40:54
  You got to maintain the car.
• 40:56
  You got to keep investing in that investment so it can get to that point.
• 40:59
  It's tough when someone comes at that question because they're not
• 41:03
  buying a car for the right reasons.
• 41:04
  So how do you tell the difference between an investment and a money pit?
• 41:07
  One, if you're going to Barney Rubble or Fred Flintstone the thing home, or if you
• 41:11
  can actually start it and drive it home.
• 41:15
  So I guess, are there some collector cars though, that are just absolute
• 41:19
  nightmares where some people buy them anyway, and you're just like, Oh, you kind
• 41:23
  of cringe every time you see it happen.
• 41:26
  I hate saying it, you know, E types, great car when they're running great,
• 41:30
  but it's a lot of work to keep them at that level to be able to drive them.
• 41:34
  In all honesty, you know, Alfa Romeos, they're also kind of a
• 41:38
  nightmarish thing to deal with.
• 41:40
  That's something if you buy, you better know how to work on a car.
• 41:42
  When they run right, they're awesome.
• 41:44
  They're fantastic.
• 41:45
  It's all about your commitment level to what you want to have.
• 41:48
  I guess the big question to ask yourself.
• 41:50
  Again, it kind of goes back.
• 41:51
  Do you want to be wrenched on that car every weekend?
• 41:54
  To be able to drive it that one weekend a month?
• 41:56
  Or you want something where you can buy it and you only got to wrench on
• 41:59
  it once every six months and you're driving it every other weekend to go
• 42:03
  to your events, stuff like that, and just doing your little things here
• 42:05
  and there, changing your oil, whatnot.
• 42:06
  It's all about how someone's looking at it.
• 42:08
  It goes back to that question.
• 42:09
  What do you want to do with this car?
• 42:10
  What's your enjoyment?
• 42:11
  What do you really want to get out of this car?
• 42:13
  Some people can look at something that's been sitting out in the farm
• 42:16
  field for 40 years and pull it out and they see a diamond in the rough
• 42:19
  and you know, they'll take five, 10 years to make it show car like it was
• 42:23
  brand new, where you got someone else that walks up to it, go that thing
• 42:26
  just should be hacked up and scrapped.
• 42:27
  It's all up to the individual and it's all house looked at.
• 42:30
  Someone's going to see a money pit.
• 42:31
  Someone else is going to see a diamond in the rough.
• 42:34
  So you brought up a really fantastic point about the Jaguars.
• 42:37
  The running joke, at least that I know, has always been never buy a Jag with low
• 42:40
  mileage because you know it never ran.
• 42:42
  Yeah, there's a reason it's got low miles.
• 42:47
  Exactly.
• 42:47
  Well, that being said, we've been kind of skirting around this
• 42:50
  to say there's different types of car collectors out there.
• 42:53
  Many folks nowadays, they love the ease of the internet.
• 42:56
  You got this marketplace and that marketplace and auto trader and cars.
• 43:00
  com.
• 43:00
  And some people buy cars through their local car club, or it's like, Hey,
• 43:03
  this guy's getting out of this car.
• 43:05
  You know, he's getting older.
• 43:06
  He wants to sell it, whatever word of mouth, but there comes a point.
• 43:09
  In which you need to cross the threshold and enlist the help
• 43:13
  of somebody like yourself.
• 43:14
  And in that discrete purchasing comes into play.
• 43:17
  When does that happen?
• 43:18
  When in the collector life cycle, if you're really committed to
• 43:21
  that part of the automotive world, when do you get there?
• 43:24
  When do you make that transition?
• 43:26
  One, when you can afford the car, that's going to be involved at that level.
• 43:30
  But two, if you're looking for something very specific, that's where it helps
• 43:34
  to get someone like myself involved.
• 43:36
  And again, even if it's, Hey, this is going to be the only car you buy, but
• 43:39
  take, you got that 250, 500 grand to spend up, but you only want one, but
• 43:43
  you want this kind of specific one.
• 43:45
  That's where you're getting that involved because.
• 43:47
  You want to get the value for what you're paying for, because
• 43:49
  it's such a meaningful purchase.
• 43:51
  If you're finding something that's very unique and hard to find, and you have to
• 43:54
  know people that know people that, hey, I can get my hands on one, but you're
• 43:58
  going to have to pay the premium for it.
• 44:00
  That's where someone like myself gets involved.
• 44:02
  It kind of goes back into an earlier conversation when you asked, hey,
• 44:05
  you Is it every Porsche 4R remains?
• 44:07
  No, it's not.
• 44:08
  It's very specific ones from specific eras that I'll deal with.
• 44:12
  You can go online in the auto trader, all the other sites on there.
• 44:16
  Bring a trailer and all this stuff.
• 44:17
  You have all these cars in there.
• 44:19
  But bring a trailer kind of blazed the trail how these more
• 44:23
  simplified auction sites got set up.
• 44:25
  You know, then they sold out, but then you had all these other cars and bids.
• 44:28
  You know, Doug DeMuro, you know, launching his.
• 44:30
  These, all these other ones came out and for 99 bucks, there's
• 44:33
  somebody who now says they're not even charging to list your car.
• 44:35
  Spring and Trail was at 5%, capped it at 5 grand.
• 44:38
  Then the next one came out, they capped it at 4 grand and it was free.
• 44:41
  And everyone keeps undercutting everybody to make it cheaper just to get the
• 44:45
  listings and have the cars on there.
• 44:46
  I know they say, Hey, we try and weed some out, or we're going to be
• 44:49
  picky about what we put on there.
• 44:51
  What I was down to, they got to make money.
• 44:53
  So they're going to start putting whatever they can on there because they got
• 44:56
  bills to pay, they got employees to pay.
• 44:58
  They're going to start letting stuff slip through, you know.
• 45:00
  That was a nice thing originally, bring a trailer was very, very particular
• 45:03
  about the cars they put on there.
• 45:05
  So you knew what you're getting, who the owner was.
• 45:07
  It was a great person because they spoke to the owner, have all stuff.
• 45:10
  Now that they got bought out, they got to make money for the corporate entity.
• 45:14
  They have to, so now they're taking whatever they can.
• 45:16
  So we joke all the time, at least on our drive thru episodes about how bring
• 45:20
  a trailer has basically ruined the used car market because everybody now has this
• 45:24
  false sense of what their car is worth because they go, well, I'm bringing a
• 45:28
  trailer, my geo Metro sold for 200, 000.
• 45:31
  It must obviously be worth that.
• 45:34
  What's your take on the current used car pricing market?
• 45:37
  Because you threw out some numbers.
• 45:39
  250 500.
• 45:40
  You buy a new Corvette right now, not even fully option.
• 45:44
  Now you're talking 100 grand.
• 45:45
  So that threshold has moved and used car prices are going up and
• 45:49
  everything is just like crazy town.
• 45:52
  What's your take on this bubble?
• 45:55
  Is it going to settle?
• 45:56
  I mean, he's got a course.
• 45:57
  Correct.
• 45:58
  Definitely.
• 45:58
  How long?
• 45:59
  I think it's still going to be another couple of years that this is going to
• 46:01
  be, but you know, on the new car side and the manufacturers are salivating
• 46:05
  over this because especially, you know, how Tesla is their business
• 46:08
  model regards how they sell and they want to emulate that however they can.
• 46:12
  Because they don't want to have inventory.
• 46:14
  That's money on the books.
• 46:16
  We want you to order the car on the internet, then it's there.
• 46:18
  And we only have five cars at the lot.
• 46:20
  They can just test drive one.
• 46:21
  They really want to go that route.
• 46:22
  I mean, what's happening now in the marketplace and the used
• 46:25
  car prices, it's really going to define and change the course of
• 46:29
  how new cars and new cars are sold.
• 46:33
  It's really going to change up.
• 46:34
  It's going to last a while.
• 46:35
  There's a big hole.
• 46:36
  It's not like all of a sudden they're going to start cranking out all these
• 46:38
  new cars and, you know, fill these holes and people can go buy them.
• 46:41
  They got all these flooded used cars on it.
• 46:42
  I mean, it ain't going to happen.
• 46:44
  It's going to be a while before the ship corrects itself in regards
• 46:48
  to, it gets things balancing out.
• 46:50
  And the other side too, is you could see the used car market staying where
• 46:54
  it's at, absolutely crazy forever now.
• 46:57
  Because people can't afford the 100, 000 EV, but they can afford the
• 47:02
  30, 000, 100, 000 mile car that's sitting there as 10 years old.
• 47:07
  Well, I can afford that, but I can't afford that.
• 47:09
  I just foresee that happening also.
• 47:11
  It could just also be like, look, this is the new norm and it's not going away.
• 47:15
  These EVs are priced so high, what percentage of people can afford it?
• 47:18
  So they're going to be forced to buy the ICE engine cars.
• 47:21
  And you know, that edge goes, Hey, supply and demand.
• 47:24
  And you know, they'll just gouge the heck out of you.
• 47:27
  We're seeing that on new cars too, right?
• 47:29
  Where Ford had to step in and say, you can't raise all these fake dealer markups
• 47:33
  and all this stuff that's happening.
• 47:34
  Oh, I've seen, I'm sure you have too.
• 47:36
  You know, some of these photos I've seen online and videos, people
• 47:39
  go into new cars here to see what their market adjustment 8, 000 for
• 47:43
  this, Doesn't cost anything going on these obscene numbers to jack it up.
• 47:47
  And what's unfortunate though, is they're selling people coming to buy it.
• 47:52
  And it just perpetuates the problem.
• 47:54
  And this goes back to something I've always said.
• 47:56
  There's plenty of old cars to go around.
• 47:59
  So when you're looking to spend that kind of money, I mean, fossil
• 48:02
  fuels aren't disappearing overnight.
• 48:03
  Doesn't make sense for them to suddenly shut off all the taps.
• 48:07
  Does it make sense to drive?
• 48:09
  a Ferrari California Spider like they did in Ferris Bueller
• 48:12
  every day as your daily driver.
• 48:14
  No, but there could be something older that maybe is
• 48:17
  a little bit more collectible.
• 48:18
  That's a lot more fun.
• 48:19
  And if you're looking to spend a hundred thousand dollars on a new Corvette,
• 48:22
  well, what about an older Corvette?
• 48:24
  Like a C3, like you were talking about for the rocks and revs, you know,
• 48:27
  something like, or even a C2, a Stingray.
• 48:29
  What are they going for right now?
• 48:31
  Kind of do those mental gymnastics and then you enlist.
• 48:34
  the help of somebody like yourself, a headhunter for these classic
• 48:38
  cars, let's just say, and go, William, I'm looking for this.
• 48:42
  What can you do for me?
• 48:43
  I mean, is that as simple as the process is to get that ball started?
• 48:47
  How does it work if somebody looks to get your help?
• 48:49
  Yeah, that's about as simple as it gets.
• 48:51
  It's a, it's a, It's like, Hey William, I'm in the market for X.
• 48:54
  They could have a specific car model.
• 48:57
  They're looking for say, Hey, I'm looking for a 67 to 75 GTB four cam.
• 49:01
  Okay.
• 49:02
  Now we're getting very specific color wise.
• 49:04
  What I started getting to it.
• 49:05
  You want a class C certified?
• 49:06
  I'll go, Hey, what do you want?
• 49:07
  I'm looking for a Ferrari.
• 49:08
  Okay.
• 49:09
  Then to start asking questions, what do you want to do with it?
• 49:11
  What's your budget?
• 49:12
  You know, what do you plan to do with the car?
• 49:13
  Everything like that, you start asking those questions, really
• 49:15
  start boiling down to what you really want to get out of the car.
• 49:19
  Now, like to your point, say with a Corvette, like a CSC2, you can
• 49:22
  find something out there relatively inexpensive, but are you happy
• 49:25
  with a non numbers matching car?
• 49:27
  But hey, do you want to be able to drive this thing out there?
• 49:29
  So you want disc brakes on it all around?
• 49:31
  So you want to basically, you know, it's a resto mod?
• 49:33
  Is that what you're looking to have?
• 49:34
  You know, How extreme do you want it?
• 49:36
  It really boils down to what some of one, what do they want to do with the car?
• 49:40
  What do they want to get out of it?
• 49:41
  You know, what's their budget.
• 49:42
  And then you start bringing them down to reality, what they could afford.
• 49:45
  And that's the other big thing is kind of getting them to see the light.
• 49:48
  Cause some people think I got 500 grand.
• 49:51
  I want a two 50 GTO.
• 49:52
  Well, you might want to add a couple of zeros to that.
• 49:54
  And sometimes, you know, you have that heart to heart with them.
• 49:57
  And you bring them down to reality.
• 49:58
  Then they all say, kind of turn.
• 49:59
  So, all right, you know, well, let me think about it some more.
• 50:02
  And I'll call you back.
• 50:03
  Don't let you call back and say, you know, they look more around
• 50:06
  at the internet or what have you.
• 50:07
  They kind of came to realization of what they can afford, what
• 50:10
  really would work for them.
• 50:11
  So they put more thought into it.
• 50:13
  Then make a hasty decision.
• 50:14
  Some of you don't hear back again.
• 50:16
  They take the money, they put a stock market or buy another vacation
• 50:18
  home or do something along those lines, you know, or buy a boat.
• 50:20
  And I think you brought up a really good point with the American muscle.
• 50:23
  And I know some of us get scared when you see the prices coming out of like
• 50:26
  Barrett Jackson and Mecham and some of these other auctions, you're like
• 50:29
  that Camaro sold for what granted it's not Ferrari money, but it's still like
• 50:34
  your eyes are bugging out of your head.
• 50:36
  I think those cars are underappreciated in the sense that there's going to be a lot
• 50:40
  more of them available here in the next 10 to 15 years, but the people that have
• 50:44
  taken care of loved for and maintained some of those classic muscle cars, you
• 50:48
  know, late sixties, early seventies, we can say almost to the malaise era.
• 50:52
  They put a lot of really cool things into them, right?
• 50:55
  You talked about rest of mods, power brakes, air conditioning,
• 50:58
  modernize this, the suspension, like all this kind of stuff.
• 51:01
  They're actually better than they ever were intended to be.
• 51:05
  And they make good daily drivers now put that big.
• 51:08
  Cast iron V8 aside, they're not the most efficient engines in the world.
• 51:12
  But if you're looking for something reasonable, cost effective, and a lot
• 51:16
  of fun that makes all the right noises, maybe divert your attention over there.
• 51:20
  Not trying to take anybody away from Porsches and Ferraris,
• 51:23
  a nicely redone C2 Stingray.
• 51:25
  I mean, I'm not looking for a split window here.
• 51:28
  That's not a bad car, right?
• 51:30
  Oh, no, it isn't.
• 51:31
  They're great.
• 51:32
  That's things you're exactly right.
• 51:33
  That's where you're having the conversation with the individual
• 51:36
  and really getting down to brass tacks with them and really kind of
• 51:40
  making them see some things and have that honest conversation with them.
• 51:43
  My goal is to make them happy.
• 51:45
  I want them to be to have with that purchase.
• 51:46
  Cause one, I want them with, they ever will come to sell it.
• 51:48
  I want to buy another card.
• 51:49
  I want them to come back to me.
• 51:51
  But two, I also want them to tell their friends, because they're going
• 51:53
  to be involved in clubs area dance.
• 51:55
  Someone's talking to them, saying, Hey, I'm still going to buy a
• 51:57
  car, you know, what'd you do?
• 51:58
  Hey, you want to get ahold of William, you know, he's helped me out immensely.
• 52:01
  That's my goal.
• 52:02
  The plus side is, yes, I get to make a living from it, but I
• 52:05
  want them to be happy with it.
• 52:06
  They need to have an honest conversation with regards to what
• 52:08
  they want to do with the car.
• 52:09
  You can have a lot of fun with a 60s, 70s, 80s car.
• 52:13
  Look at the Fox Body Mustangs.
• 52:15
  I had one.
• 52:16
  It was a lot of fun.
• 52:17
  It was a great car.
• 52:18
  You just gotta look at what's out there availability wise, because a lot of
• 52:21
  these guys get very narrow blinders on in regards to what they think
• 52:24
  they'd have fun with, what they want.
• 52:26
  But then when you talk to them or you start suggesting things and then they go,
• 52:30
  Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that.
• 52:31
  Oh God.
• 52:32
  Yeah.
• 52:32
  I remember that car.
• 52:33
  Oh, my buddy had one of those in high school.
• 52:34
  Yeah.
• 52:35
  That thing was great.
• 52:36
  It's just having a conversation with them and just really getting
• 52:38
  them to see the whole market.
• 52:40
  What is out there and what you could do with something.
• 52:43
  William is the living, breathing version of our, what should I buy episodes?
• 52:49
  He embodies why we have those episodes and we'll put a pin in that because maybe
• 52:54
  he'll be a special guest on a future.
• 52:56
  What should I buy episodes?
• 52:57
  So stay tuned for that, but I do want to ask you any tips or tricks
• 53:02
  for buying collector cars, both.
• 53:04
  For the newbie and the veteran collector from your experience, things that you've
• 53:09
  just learned that are gotchas that you want to pass down to folks by the best
• 53:13
  thing you can afford is basically it.
• 53:14
  I mean, going out there thinking you're going to find grandma's got her son's car
• 53:19
  that was unfortunately killed in Vietnam.
• 53:21
  It's been sitting there for 40 years.
• 53:22
  It's got 1500 miles.
• 53:23
  Actually bought it right before he got shipped out.
• 53:25
  And those days are long gone.
• 53:27
  Stealing something from under somebody.
• 53:29
  And to me, I don't like that.
• 53:31
  I just think that's just unfair.
• 53:33
  And it just does a disservice to the industry itself, you know,
• 53:36
  and it's not fair to the seller.
• 53:37
  It's not fair to the buyer.
• 53:38
  I'm a very honest, straight shooting person.
• 53:40
  If I approach someone about a car that I I'm looking forward to someone.
• 53:45
  And I think it's underpriced.
• 53:46
  I'll tell them, look, you know, this is a great car.
• 53:48
  It's great, but I'm going to tell you right now, you know, you should be
• 53:50
  asking a little bit more money for this.
• 53:52
  They appreciate that honesty and being straightforward with them about it.
• 53:56
  If you go to an auction, you're looking through it.
• 53:58
  You know, you might be able to sneak something out of there.
• 54:01
  That's like one of the last five cars going across and everyone's left.
• 54:04
  Or it's one of the first couple of cars got across and no one's there.
• 54:07
  You might in a blue moon come across something like that.
• 54:10
  You'll rummage through all the places you can find cars that are for sale.
• 54:14
  You might find something that's a diamond in the rough.
• 54:17
  You know, Hey, I bought it for five grand.
• 54:19
  If I put another five grand into it, Hey, it might be worth 15 grand.
• 54:21
  It just needs a little TLC.
• 54:23
  Needs a little engine work, just to tune up this and that.
• 54:26
  A solid, good detail job does miracles for a car.
• 54:30
  I tell people, I say, look, yeah, you can do it yourself, but if
• 54:33
  you really want it done, right.
• 54:34
  Spend the 500, 800 bucks and have a professional do it inside out.
• 54:38
  The difference is night and day compared to what is getting all store
• 54:41
  marks or that it's well worth it.
• 54:43
  Especially if it's a car, you plan to keep it.
• 54:45
  You know, if you go up to say spending the two grand, getting a detailed
• 54:49
  ceramic coated PPF, the whole nine yards, maintain it and keep it.
• 54:52
  It's well worth that investment in that car, especially if you
• 54:54
  know, you're going to keep it.
• 54:55
  The bar find days are gone.
• 54:57
  Find something along those lines.
• 54:58
  Internet, everything like that, you know, those things came across all of a sudden,
• 55:01
  everyone was out there trying to look.
• 55:02
  You're seeing the guys taking drones out, going in the middle of Nebraska, flying
• 55:05
  a drone around all the farms, trying to see if they see a car sitting somewhere,
• 55:09
  you know, those kinds of things.
• 55:10
  Yeah, you might find something here and there, but this day and age, that person
• 55:13
  knows what they have in the garage.
• 55:15
  Unfortunately, so like you mentioned before, bring a trailer, made
• 55:18
  someone think a car that's worth 10 grand, they think it's worth 20.
• 55:20
  It's like, oh, that just sold for this.
• 55:22
  It's like, It's not the same car.
• 55:24
  Same thing with auction, a car goes through and then someone says, Hey, I
• 55:27
  just saw that go on Barrett Jackson, you know, in Arizona the other month.
• 55:31
  And I had that same car and I think it's, no, you don't have the same car.
• 55:34
  You know, there's a big difference between your Camaro and the Yanko Camaro
• 55:38
  that went across that auction line.
• 55:41
  Yeah, exactly.
• 55:42
  Exactly.
• 55:43
  And sometimes the person won't listen and it's like, all right.
• 55:46
  Oh, I just wanted to help have fun.
• 55:49
  Go at it, but sometimes, you know, the personal listen to, so it's
• 55:52
  kind of both sides of the coin.
• 55:53
  Well, William, any shout outs, promotions or anything else you'd like
• 55:56
  to share that we didn't cover thus far?
• 55:58
  Hit me up, check out the Furibach course website.
• 56:01
  It's very minimal in regards to what you can see, but hey, if you're
• 56:04
  interested in some information, I can send it out to you.
• 56:06
  If you've got any questions, don't just, uh, shoot me an
• 56:08
  email, William at furibachcourse.
• 56:10
  com.
• 56:11
  Keeping transactions out of the public eye increases the value of your
• 56:15
  collectible so that you get the most value for the few and not the many.
• 56:20
  That's the world of bespoke car collecting.
• 56:22
  That's the world that William Ross comes from.
• 56:25
  To learn more about Führerbach, Be sure to log on to www.
• 56:30
  fuhrerbachporsche.
• 56:31
  com and to get in contact with William, you can reach him via LinkedIn or email
• 56:36
  him at William at fuhrerbachporsche.
• 56:39
  com.
• 56:40
  So William, I cannot thank you enough for coming on the show and
• 56:43
  talking about your corner of the automotive and motorsports world.
• 56:46
  I mean, we talked to all sorts of different people on this show.
• 56:49
  But it takes all of us to continue to keep these gears turning and you're
• 56:53
  a part of that larger equation.
• 56:54
  So thanks for giving us some insight, some tips on collecting cars, and to come check
• 56:59
  out the newest, hottest bespoke car on the market, if you're a back Porsche, I really
• 57:04
  appreciate you having me on the show.
• 57:05
  It's been a lot of fun.
• 57:06
  And like you said before, you never know.
• 57:08
  You might hear from me again on the show.
• 57:14
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM,
• 57:17
  be sure to check us out on www.
• 57:19
  gtmotorsports.
• 57:20
  org.
• 57:21
  You can also find us on Instagram at grandtorymotorsports.
• 57:25
  Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call
• 57:29
  or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.
• 57:36
  org.
• 57:37
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 57:39
  Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
• 57:41
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted
• 57:44
  to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization.
• 57:49
  And our goal is to continue to bring you quality episodes
• 57:52
  like this one at no charge.
• 57:55
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• 57:59
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• 58:03
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• 58:04
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• 58:18
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• 58:19
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• 58:22
  And remember, without fans, supporters, and members like you,
• 58:27
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• 58:28
  Vroom, Vroom, Vroom Vroom, Vroom, Vroom