Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / The Curse of Marco Pierre White Ep. 42

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The Curse of Marco Pierre White Ep. 42 · Chef's PSA Podcast

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Hello chefs, you're listening to chefs, PS a podcast.
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I'm your host Entre natera on today's episode we're going to
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talk about something I like to call the curse of Marco Pierre.
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White. Stay tuned.
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All right, so first, let's begin with an update.
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What have I been up to this past week?
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Believe it or not, it was an extremely busy week for me, and
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I'm actually in traveling busy season for myself where I'm
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traveling around and doing public speaking events, filming
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some stuff doing podcasts meeting with chefs working on
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projects. It's a little bit hectic.
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If I'm being honest, this past week, I was in Dallas.
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And it was a pretty cool thing. I got to talk to a group of
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students and do a book signing and provide a little lecture and
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discourse on Chefs PSA. So they were high school
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students that are in a culinary program.
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By the way, the kitchen that they have for this High School
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culinary program was very impressive.
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It was very fun for me to get in front of students especially
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when they're young and they're career and they're excited.
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They all want to be chefs and have great questions.
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Able to speak to them early in their career and hopefully tell
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them the things that I wish someone had told me when I was
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in that position and remember what it's like to be in that
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position when you're new and you're excited, you know, we're
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all beginners at some point in our career and that's honestly,
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one of the best times in your career is like everything's new.
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Everything is exciting. The world is your oyster.
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So that was fun. I got to sign books for them and
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take photographs and speak to them.
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And it's funny because it's like to me, I'm just a regular
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person. But to them, you know, there's
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some of them. Some of them look nervous to
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speak to me. And you know, we're asking for
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autographs and all that I'm thinking like I'm just a, I'm
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just a chef just like everyone else.
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Nothing special. Anyway, it was fun.
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Also while I was in Dallas, I was filming.
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An episode for Market scale. It's a cooking demo for home,
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Cooks as what we were doing. We were going to do this at
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someone's house and quick change of plans.
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They rented out a ghost kitchen and we went and cooked in there
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and what it was is the idea of the show was to teach someone
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how to make some very basic things at home, like a tomato
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salad. A seared steak shrimp scampi and
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I was working with the producer, I'm sorry, not the producer.
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I was working with the host Tim Maitland and we were cooking.
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I was How to sear a steak. It's funny for me because like,
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I'm not a chef anymore. I'm retired.
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So, having not been in the kitchen for some time and then
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going back into the kitchen, it was, it was interesting to see
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how Rusty I am. You know, we were, I was on my
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feet for like five hours. I was tired.
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My back was hurting. I was like, man, I can't believe
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I used to do this. I need to get in shape.
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It was fun for me to teach someone how to how to cook at
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home. And you know, my personal
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opinion, when it comes to home cooking is don't try and cook
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all these fancy things like Acute basic things.
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Well so learn how to see her stick properly.
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Learn how to make you know scampi properly learn how to
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make a salad properly. Like these are more important to
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me than learning all these fancy things at a cookbook.
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If you and if you understand the fundamentals of cooking, I think
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you'll be further ahead. Then if you focus too much on a
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fancy cookbook, especially when we're talking home cooks or
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early in your career, like you do need to focus on over
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complicated recipes. What you should be focusing on
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is mastering the fundamentals and mastering the Niq the
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technique is superior to everything else.
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I often quote Miyamoto Musashi and I say master one thing to
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master, the ten thousand variations.
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So he's talking swordplay, I'm talking culinary.
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Anyway, the new books are out on audio.
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So kitchen, Art of War line, cook survival manual.
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Everything that I've written right now is out on Audible, I
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was listening to the kitchen Art of War.
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It's good. I got to say, like it's probably
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the best thing I've ever written and I can't take full credit for
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it. Because what I did was I
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translated what Musashi, I'm sorry, what Sun Tzu had wrote
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and basically interpret it through my mind as a chef.
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So I was taking line by line and then writing it as kitchen Art
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of War. But I was, I was listening to us
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like man. Man, this is good.
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Chef should listen to this. I think it might be a little
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complicated for people especially if you don't read
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that style of writing, if you're not used to Eastern philosophy.
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If you haven't read like loud, Sue or Sun, Tzu or Musashi, then
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it might come across a little bit odd.
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But if you like that style and you've read books like that,
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then I think this book is the perfect book for chefs that want
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to understand strategy and contemplate deeply on abstract
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thinking when it comes. To manage in a kitchen or
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running the kitchen. Go get that book.
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It's available on Audible and obviously go to Chef space,
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a.com and and get everything there.
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I've started writing another book right now I'm titling.
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It bad Sue, so bad, sous, chef and I'm having a little bit of
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writer's block. I'm going to be honest with you
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because it's like the last book that I wrote kitchen Art of War
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was so good and I wrote it really fast, but it was so good.
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It's like how am I going to top that one?
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Because in my opinion kitchen Art of War is the best thing
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I've written And I'm like, shit, I'm really struggling with bad
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soup, but the way it's shaping up right now, most likely is, it
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will be a conversation between a chef and a sous chef who's
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insecure. So, the Sous chefs going to have
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a lot of questions. It's the bad sous-chef learning
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to be a good sous-chef. That's the premise of the book
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that I'm writing right now. I'm also working on a culinary
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dictionary on kitchen jargon. Basically, the reason I started
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writing as because I get a lot of DM's and and comments
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sometimes on the chef's PSAs on Instagram, like What is 86 mean?
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Or what does this mean? And I'm realizing that a lot of
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my audience is new chefs and inexperience chefs and they
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don't know what some of these words mean and I can't blame
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them at some point. I didn't know what it meant and
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they don't know who to ask. So I'm just going to create
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something. I'll give it away for free.
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Hopefully I'll have it out within two weeks.
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It's already written. It's just making it look pretty
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and editing and I might give it to a couple of people to read.
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So I'll give it away for free. They'll be some slang in there,
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like kitchen karate, and Halloween, ninjas, and things
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like that. But anyway, we digress.
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The curse of Marco Pierre, White.
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Let's get into that now. If you don't know who Marco
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Pierre White is he's legendary British chef.
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I think he's, I think he's Italian but he's British anyway,
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the legendary Chef Marco Pierre. White who's one of the best
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chefs ever is Legend? You probably know him as Gordon
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Ramsay's Chef or has two blumenthal's chef.
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But back in the day, when I was coming up as a cook, Marco
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Pierre, White was I mean he was he was like the rock star.
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He was, he was the most famous. Chef everyone wanted to be like
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Marco Pierre White. He got the girl, he was cool.
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He had a book that came out that was really game-changing at the
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time, it was white heat and a lot of it was in black and
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white. I have the book, it's a
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fantastic book. If you don't have white heat,
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you should get it. Just it's, it's one of those
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books that a lot of chefs have and they'll say it's the best
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book ever, you know, you could argue, is it like, Charlie
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Trotter's, Booker's it, Thomas, Keller's Booker's at Marco
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Pierre, White like that one is always.
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He's in the conversation, why? He is a phenomenal book anyway.
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So the book is in black and white and has great photos, and
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I think there's one with him like in a shark and smoking a
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cigarette. There's a lot of famous pictures
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that you see. Of Chef Marco Pierre, White.
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Like I said he was a rock star. And when I was coming up as a
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chef, he was my hero. And then all of a sudden in
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about 1999, I think, I think the restaurant that he had was
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Harvey's but anyway, he was the youngest Chef to receive three
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Michelin stars. I think he was 33 at the time
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and you could go back on YouTube and you can watch old
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documentaries of him cooking and like he's like no bullshit.
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The reporters asking them questions.
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He's getting annoyed. Like do you want me to show you
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what I'm making or do you want to bother me with questions and
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you can tell the reporters like on the defense and dig in a
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little bit of cadence back and forth between the two.
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Anyway, he was a legend and at one point and I want to say this
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was 1999. He gave back his his Michelin
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stars said, he didn't want it anymore, he was kind of burned
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out his crispy. Who's ready to go away and do
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something different. He was a little bit jaded.
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Probably, right. And I remember when that
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happened that I remember, I was so disappointed, I was like, but
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he's the king, he's Marco Pierre.
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White, why would he give back his stars?
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Go and take your seat on the throne like you're the king.
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Why would you give up the, why would you give up the crown?
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And I didn't understand and for a young Chef like me back then,
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Jung kook. And idolizing someone like Marco
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Pierre White. I couldn't fathom the idea of
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wanting to step away from something that I was.
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So passionate about, and seeing that this person had reached the
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Pinnacle of culinary, youngest three, Michelin star.
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Chef wrote this incredible book. And then, you know, the other
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book that he has the devil in the kitchen, which if you
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haven't read that book honestly, every Chef should redouble in
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the kitchen, I would put it up. There's along with Anthony
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Bourdain's. No Reservations.
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I'm sorry. Kitchen.
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Confidential, it's probably one of the best books ever written
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in terms of culinary along with kitchen, Heart Of War.
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But anyway, and I just remember thinking, like, Marco, why are
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you doing that? Like, you're The King and I was
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like, it was like watching your favorite athlete retire and
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you're like, no, but you're still so young.
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You can keep you could keep playing and you could go on
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forever and I didn't understand why he did it.
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When you start out in culinary school, cooking, seems very
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difficult. And then when you become a
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really great chef, you realize, cooking's kind of easy, but that
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journey to go from it looks easy.
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I'm going to try it out too. Oh man, it's really difficult.
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I thought it was going to be easy to getting really
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competent. It saying, it actually is easy.
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It's like the cycle of life that a chef has.
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And when I was coming up as a chef, I wanted nothing more than
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to be the best chef ever. I was passionate, I was driven
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at the school lecture that I just did.
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Someone ask me why I went to culinary school so many times.
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And for those of you that don't know, you know, I went to the
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Western Culinary Institute in Portland, which was Le Cordon
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Bleu later on. I've attended the classes at the
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CIA in New York in st. Helena in San Antonio, I've In
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Ruby online courses. I've probably taken more
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culinary school education than anyone.
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I know, I don't know anyone that's gone to culinary school
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more than I have put it that way and I'm not saying they don't
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exist. I'm just saying, I don't know
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them and I know a lot of chefs and so the person asked me, why
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did I go to culinary school so much?
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Was it because I was insecure and I said no, it was because I
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was so driven and I thought that just a little bit of Education,
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will give me a little, a little Edge on my competition.
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I wanted to know everything I am.
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East myself in every single book and every single new technique,
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I wanted to gain as much knowledge as I could.
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So I could have a slight advantage over the competition.
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Because when you're performing at a high level, the difference
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between number one and number two, sometimes is it's nothing,
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right? Because the number two is
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looking at you saying, I want the number one spot, so I wanted
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that number one spot. So, if they were number one, I
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wanted whatever I could get to be the number one.
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And so that's why I went to culinary school.
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So much is because I wanted that little bit of edge now
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fast-forward later on in my career, There was a moment when
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I recognized that it was time for me to step away and I've
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probably told the story, but if you haven't heard it all I'll
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say it again, the chef de cuisine and the restaurant that
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I oversaw Was preparing some dishes and he came to me and he
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brought me these dishes, I don't remember what it was exactly.
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But for the sake of conversation, I think it was
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like a mushroom with, like, an XO sauce and a fermented this
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that, and the other. And he brought it to me and
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said, try the dish chef and I tried it.
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He's What do you think? I said, it's good.
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It's fine. He's like it's fine.
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This he has Fine. Put on the menu.
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He was like anything. You want to change, you know,
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he's trying to get a little bit more feedback.
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I said, no, it's fine, put on the menu and I was getting a
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little bit annoyed because he was looking for validation, but
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he was getting annoyed with me because he wanted more from me
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than, yeah, it's fine. Put it on the menu and I took a
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bite and I was like, yeah, it's good, but I wasn't that
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interested. Now, when you've been doing this
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for a long time, there comes a point where people are putting
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food in front of you all the time, maybe tried so much and
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you've been Creative that hates. It starts to you start to lose a
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little bit of interest in. It's not as interesting, like,
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no one's going to really impress me with something that I haven't
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seen like, or haven't tasted it happens occasionally, but it's
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extremely rare and I could tell he was, I could tell he was
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looking for some sort of validation and because I didn't
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give it to him. I could, I could see this
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dejected look on his face and then he said, okay, Shuffle.
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Do you want anything else? And I said yeah can I get a
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steak and like I could see this look on his face like I just
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presented you a dish that I've been working on for weeks and
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it's creative and you know I put my heart and soul into and all
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you want is a stake. And I saw the look on his face,
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he didn't say nothing but I saw it.
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I was like, yeah, it's probably time for me to leave and that
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was a moment when I determined that, I should probably step
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away from cooking because the type of Chef that he needed to
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work for, I was no longer that Chef.
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I it was a moment in time that I Recognized that I was like ah
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this is what Marco Pierre White was talking about.
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Like he stopped, he stopped chasing something, the new and
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the interesting and wanting to be on The Cutting Edge because
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there comes a certain point where it's like you're cooking
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this food, but you're not enjoying it, you just want
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something simple and delicious and that's what I find myself
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craving more often. As I have a certain Nostalgia
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for food that I came up cooking more so than the new stuff.
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So, For example, I came up cooking in the classic style
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kitchen. So let's say a lobster bisque.
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For example, or a classic onion soup or a steak tartare or
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roasted chicken. I crave that much more than I
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crave, something new and modern in a restaurant.
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I just want simple food done. Well, and it's interesting
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because I saw Marco Pierre, White do that and I judged him
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harshly. And in retrospect, now that I've
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lived it, I understand why he did what he did, and I call it
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the curse of Marco Pierre, White because you see a lot of Chef's
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do this. You see them, they reach a
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certain level and people wonder like why did they stop
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progressing as a chef? Why do they still do the same
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food and they're not doing the nude, the trendy, the creative.
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And I think that's because they reach a certain point in
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understanding where they realize.
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There's always going to be a new and a trendy and a creative.
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But I just want to do this well and I saw Marco Pierre White say
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this on an interview once where he said it's a, it's not about
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always Reinventing. It's all.
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It's about refining. It's about The distillation of
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the process and making it perfect.
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And that's the way cooking was, you know.
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It's a pre-internet but pre-internet, you know, you cook
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books weren't what they are now. Social media was in wasn't what
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it is. Now, so many of the chef's if
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you want to a European restaurant, they were basically
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all serving the same dishes. They were all cooking out of
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escoffier as book. They were just refining it to
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their own style, but it was the same dishes.
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It wasn't so much about inventing, something new.
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It was about refining. What already existed?
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Pletely different than the way it is now and I call this the
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curse of Marco Pierre White because I think a lot of chefs
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get to that point. Now I do have a saying that I
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really enjoy and that is when growth stops Decay begins.
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And so back to what I was saying earlier, when I decided to step
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away from being a chef because I realized that it was no longer
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exciting for me to create food that was on The Cutting Edge.
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I just wanted to make simple things and I enjoyed simple
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things I used to Like to say this as a joke, I would say,
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sometimes I look at all the beautiful food that we create,
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you know, the tweezer stuff and the pretty colors in the flowers
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and all that, right? I'd say I'd look at all the
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beautiful food that we make, and I say, wow, that's pretty and
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then I go eat a steak because I no longer I found it more
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therapeutic to make it but I did it find it interesting to eat.
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I didn't find it. Something that I would crave, I
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found it something that I enjoyed creating, but I didn't
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enjoy eating. So there was a little bit of
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this. Dichotomy that I was dealing
16:40
with the internal struggle as a chef and I was talking to one of
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my chef friends. The other day has been a chef at
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two and three Michelin star places as a chef.
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And we were talking about if I open up another place, what kind
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of food would I do? And he and I both had the same
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opinion on things and that was if I open something right now, I
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wouldn't be chasing the trend or anything like that.
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I just want to make good food and have a busy restaurant.
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Now, here's the chef. If that has been a chef at some
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of the best restaurants in the world and he's like, brother, I
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totally understand where you're coming from, that's why I'm at
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all. So if you're a young Chef
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listening to this understand that you might be thinking that
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I'm an idiot and I don't know what I'm talking about and
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that'll never happen to you. And I used to say the same thing
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and then eventually it did happen to me.
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So back to the idea of when growth stops Decay begins, when
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I recognized that, this was an issue for me.
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I was like, okay if I'm no longer going to grow as a chef I
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want to maintain my legacy as a chef intact and not many chefs
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you see them go out on top. I mean, think about think about,
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you know, used to fight analogy like how many fighters like do
17:50
like Anderson Silva? I think about him is UFC
17:52
fighters. He was known as one of the
17:54
greatest of all time, but then he loses his last couple of
17:56
fights, it just loses a fight to check Paul and people think he
18:00
wasn't as good, but he was the goat, but had he left when he
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was on top. People would say, he was the
18:04
greatest of all time, but because he lost his last few
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people think maybe he was Isn't that good, but the fact of the
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matter is who knows what went through his mind, and maybe he
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just lost the passion for and it became a job.
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And so, how do I reinvent myself?
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My, my now passion, what, I'm passionate about right now is
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chefs be a say. It's, I am passionate about
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growing the industry and helping people think helping people
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learn helping you become better chefs.
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I'm not saying I'll never go back in the kitchen and if I
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went back in the kitchen and I opened up a restaurant tomorrow,
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I could tell you that realistically, my style of food
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today would be much different than I was pushing for a Couple
18:39
years ago right now, I would probably open up something
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simple as before I was trying to open up, you know, the best
18:44
restaurant in the city. I wanted national attention.
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Now, I would prefer a full restaurant and if I haven't
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shared this story with you, I'll wrap up this whole thing with
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the conversation that I had recently.
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I went to dinner with some of my chef friends, as I like to say
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the Illuminati chefs and we were having a conversation about what
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award means the most to you. And Or career and some of them
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were like, oh the James Beard award or the food and wine, or
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whatever, the case may be best, chef does best chef that.
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And one of the chef said, you know, the award that means the
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most to me now is having a busy restaurant at making money.
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That means more to me than any of those words mean.
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Like, once you get the first award, it's like, that's the
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most memorable one and every single award after that, it
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doesn't feel the same. It's like the first time you try
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something and then If you try that same thing over and over
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again, it doesn't necessarily have the same feeling the same
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thing applied to the chef's. They all said that the best
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award that they are getting. Now is a busy restaurant with a
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good team and making money like the your perspective changed
19:55
over time and I thought that was that was an interesting thing.
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So, I like to call it the curse of Marco Pierre White when the
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realization kicks in that simple, delicious food really is
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the way and we start out our career excited and wanting to
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push the limits to our own culinary potential.
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And then we end our careers with some form of realization, not
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everyone, right? Not everyone, there's always
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exceptions to the rule and exception doesn't disprove the
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rule we end our careers. With this idea that you just
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kind of want what's simple and good and you don't want to
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overcomplicate it. So you start out with.
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I want 20 things on the plate so I could show everything.
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I know early in your career and you close your career with.
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I just want a simple seared piece of fish steak chicken,
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whatever the case may be properly cooked vegetables,
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right? You simplify you were fine, you
20:53
distill anyway. I hope you enjoyed that rant and
20:56
I hope it was thought-provoking if you want to support the show.
21:00
Go to chefs, PS a.com, you can get all the books, their
21:03
culinary leadership fundamentals, the book, the
21:05
video course, kitchen Art of War line, cook survival manual.
21:10
The first book I ever wrote, how not to be the biggest idiot in
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the kitchen. You could get the merch there.
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But most importantly, if you're listening to this, let me know
21:18
what you think. There's a comment box.
21:19
If you're listening on Spotify, let me know what you think.
21:22
Make sure you leave five stars. I appreciate all of you that
21:24
have left five stars. You all are the best.
21:26
Those of you that have not left, five stars, how dare you, You
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but only leave five stars. Nothing less anyway, see you all
21:32
next week, hit the porno music.