Latest / Your Body Knows / Your Body Was Never the Problem: Danielle Prescod on Beauty, Belonging, and Becoming

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Your Body Was Never the Problem: Danielle Prescod on Beauty, Belonging, and Becoming · Your Body Knows

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Your Body Knows, a podcast for women ready to return to their bodies and reclaim their power, their truth, and their way forward.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Shanetta McDonald, a somatic life coach and writer.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Each episode will explore the messy, beautiful work of healing, self-trust, and learning to feel at home in your own skin.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're in a season of transition or simply longing to feel more like yourself, this space is for you.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let's listen in.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is someone whose work explores the intersection of fashion, culture, identity, and the stories we tell ourselves about beauty, belonging, and power.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Danielle Prescott is a writer, creator, author, and cultural critic whose career spans more than 15 years in the beauty and fashion industry.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: She's the author of the acclaimed memoir, Token Black Girl, and the novel Rules of Fortune.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Through her writing, video series, and commentary, she's become a leading voice on race representation and the ways pop culture shapes our understandings of ourselves and each other.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Today, we'll explore her journey through the fashion industry, what it means to challenge systems from the inside, how identity influences the way we move through the world, and why asking uncomfortable questions can lead to meaningful change.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Danielle.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I start every interview with asking my guests, how are you feeling in your body these days?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what season of life does it feel like you're in right now?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um right now I'm pretty sore.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I feel in my body.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I um I have been exercising a lot because I it's really warm right now in Wisconsin where I live, and that's pretty rare.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been taking advantage of it.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've been, I think I had like 36,000 steps last weekend.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then I like went to my horseback riding lesson on Monday.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: I did Pilates on Tuesday, and then after that, I'll go to Pilates again today.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: So um I'm a little sore.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but I think it's a good thing.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm feeling pretty strong, and I am in a season of my life of acceptance, I would say.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um trying to accept all things.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um and all the astrology girlies say that um this is a good season for me.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a Leo and a rising Leo, so they are saying that um Jupiter is going back to Leo, so it's a really um expansive um like part of my life.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the last time Jupiter was in Leo was 12 years ago.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I it's like so weird.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I can barely remember 12 years ago.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like where I was emotionally, and like, you know, I don't think I was in this good of a place though.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really excited to see like what this next kind of transition brings.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: You are Leo Sen and Leo rising.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I love I love it.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have I think my Venus is in Leo or Leo is in my Venus, however that works.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I have Leo in a few other areas of my chart, but I was reading this week that Jupiter does well in Leo.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Virgo Sen.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently Jupiter does not like to be in Virgo, but I'll still have some luck next year when it's my turn.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, well, that's beautiful.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited for your next year.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I have been a fan of yours since Token Black Girl.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was not and I've never been in the beauty industry.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been like a super beauty girl.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I am a writer.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: I am an avid reader.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember having a friend who was in the beauty, who still is in the beauty industry three years ago, four years ago, tell me about your book that was coming out and um you sharing, you know, so openly and vulnerably about so many different things.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, I have to read this.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Who is this person?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I just want to thank you for writing such a like a beautiful first book that was so candid about all of your struggles, not just being a working black woman in the beauty industry, but your struggles with your body and body image and how society and environmental factors work kind of impacted that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um looking back now, what do you think, if you can recall, your body was trying to communicate with you that your mind wasn't ready to hear before writing the book, back in the journal in the process of being in those those years of maybe not taking the best care of yourself.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I think that it was very um instinctual for me to like ignore my body.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um so like I I think a lot of medical advice or like kind of like holistic advice, um, like if you're going through anything medical, has to do with like listen to your body and tune into your body.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I was in a place where if my body like wanted something, I would like shut it down like right away.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I could go like on set, for example, if I was like on a chute, I could not pee all day.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: I could go without drinking water, I could um, you know, just power through whatever I could not, I would not eat.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: I would I would I didn't have to stop for anything, like things that were like normal human um necessities, like I felt exempt from.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that was like a source of pride almost for me for a long time because it felt almost like I was a machine and I could run like a machine.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that is not healthy and it's not good.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think eventually you get to a point where you just kind of have to stop um doing that.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: For me, um, that point was when I decided to freeze my eggs um seven years ago.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um, when you go through the process of IVF, one of the things they tell you is there are three rules no drinking, no exercise, no sex.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't in a relationship at the time, which was part of the impetus for me freezing my eggs.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, okay, no sex, no problem.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't, I don't drink.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Also, drinking was not a problem, but I was like, I will not stop exercising.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, well, they don't mean me.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: They mean someone who doesn't exercise.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: They like, they mean like, you know, they I was like, they certainly don't mean me.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna like stop me.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember the first day of like my shots, I had gone to like a soul cycle class and I just started cramping up so bad in the soul cycle class.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I got so scared because they told me that like what I was doing essentially was like making my ovaries bigger.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And like if they get too big, they could rupture it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I got so scared, like when I started feeling that, because uh, first of all, financially the egg freezing was extremely expensive.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't want to do this like multiple times.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: I like want to do it right the first time so I can like kind of get it out of the way and like not have to do it again.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, you know, motivated to like make sure that I was listening, but I was also like, I can't not exercise for two weeks.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And after that, I I really had to stop.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing that I noticed, like while I was on the hormones, was that I just became so hungry.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I probably was always hungry, but like it was just like this feeling, like I just needed to eat a lot.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I I don't really know what that was.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so I gained like 15 pounds in like two weeks doing the injections, and it was super scary, but I like truly was like never the same after that.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's funny.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: My first thought went to girl, this c that costs so much money.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Don't ruin it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like not a joke.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, oh what was I very expensive?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And what what happened after?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you gained 15 pounds.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you walked away with some nice, beautiful eggs that are frozen or waiting for you.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, what did you do with yourself after that?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I did walk away with some nice eggs.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: They are frozen for me.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, it really did accelerate a process of healing um for me.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of I was seeing this really controversial doctor who I write about in Token Black Girl.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I stopped seeing him shortly after the egg incident, and really was like, I think I need to try to be healthier.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: And even though like he was kind of co-signing um his own brand of like disordered eating as like what was healthy, I just like don't think that was right for me.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I it was so restrictive.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: But because I had like a doctor um, you know, kind of in my ear telling me that this was the right thing to do, I thought it was legitimate.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just started doing that.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course in 2020, it was a pandemic, so then I'm like forced inside and like I can't go to like get sweet green for like all the things that I've put.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: I never cooked before, and it was like really scary being in New York in the pandemic because I'm like, oh, all the restaurants and stuff that I go to and like depend on.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do that right now.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I really had to like fend for myself and figure some things out.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if your book came out in 2022, did you write the book in 2020?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know the publishing industry takes so long.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: I started writing the book in 2020.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: I started writing the book in January of 2020.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: That was like the New Year's resolution that I made to myself.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Got it.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like that is what I wanted to do.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to write a book.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started writing in January of 2020 and I sold it in June of 2020.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: While we were still in the middle of the pandemic.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so what is your what does your life look like today as it relates to food and body?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um if, you know, for anyone who hasn't read the book and had hasn't read all of your backstory, even if you wrote the book and finished it and sold it, I assume maybe you even if you finished it at the end of 2021, five years is still a long time.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the internet is wilder.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's so much.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the skinny culture is back.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot happening culturally and societally.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you take care of yourself now?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: What does your recovery, I would say, look like today?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are in such a strange place um culturally, especially when it comes to like body image and um, you know, what is kind of taboo and what is not.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And ironically, I actually think a lot of it was brought on by the egg freezing.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So um I had uterine fibroids, and I like most women I have them, like most black women I have them, um, but they were always really small.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was almost after I started injecting myself with the hormones, they started growing at an accelerated rate and grew really big.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So by 2023, I was looking like I was four or five months pregnant, like all the time.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I started going, I I do Pilates, I'm very like dedicated to it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: I've been doing it for like 10 years now.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like slowly I would notice that like my ability to do certain things was compromised.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I could no longer like get in a teaser.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: I could like, there was like something in the way of me like doing certain moves.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I went to many doctors and I told them things were wrong.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And the first thing, the very first thing most of them told me was that I needed to eat better and he needed to diet without having checked any of like my medical history.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I always report that I have a history of anorexia and bulimia in all of my um intake forms.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought that was weird.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden they started being like, Would you like to try Ozempic?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And telling me that my BMI was super high and that I was like on the cusp of OBC.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you know, I know that like I've gained a lot of weight, like I'm aware of that, but something is wrong with me.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And no one would really investigate like what that was.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we found out it was uterine fibroids.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I also think I have PCOS, which is now called PMOS.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I don't meet there's like a certain diagnostic criteria that you need to have to be able to get diagnosed with it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I meet all, like I meet all of them, but just like not simultaneously.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like hard to explain.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I think one of the big reasons is that I have an IUD, which blocks me from getting a regular period.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we can't monitor my period and see like if it's heavy, if it's light, if it's regular, if it's not, like I wasn't getting one for a number of years.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, it was just like a just all out battle.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so that made me kind of regress.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like it made me really upset with my body.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then I, you know, I had to buy all new clothes, all new bras, like, and then last year I had surgery to remove seven uterine fibroids that were quite large.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think maybe a week after the surgery, when I went to go for my like post-op, they like weigh you on scale.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a scale in my house, so like I only know once we go to the doctor how much you weigh, but like I had lost another 15 pounds like that, like within a week.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wow.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that so I went to my gynecologist um last week, and in total, I've lost like 27 pounds, like since they did this.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: They removed the fibroids.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I wasn't crazy.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: You guys were telling me I was obese, and I was telling you that doesn't make any sense.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: I actually had one doctor tell me, like, perhaps I needed to cut back on treats, and that like it was okay to say no to cake.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: How much cake did it eating?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: You think I'm eating a whole cake once a week?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was just, yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it made me feel very crazy.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I went to so many doctors.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I had I went to specialists, I spent so much money, I started going to acupuncturist.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: I started seeing a dietitian.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing all of these things.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And like, really, what I needed was surgery.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry you experienced that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I have a friend who um suffers from fibroids and has head surgery twice on them.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, they just cause so many issues and to be unheard in the medical system is infuriating.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And also that, like, you know, they would suggest a hysterectomy as like a legitimate solution.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I think I might still need my uterus.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Just I want to see for a little bit if I write at all.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I went to the case.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Could that be the very, very, very last option?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to take it out.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like that also seems crazy.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Homemake, oh my goodness.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so many questions there.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I'm gonna do a hard pivot because I'm so fascinated with the journey of writing a memoir and writing about your personal experiences to writing fiction, which is no fucking easy feat.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have, I have author friends and one in particular.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing memoir.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've told everyone on this podcast about it.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Laura Cathcart Robbins, she wrote Stash by Life in Hiding.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Read it.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's about her addiction to Ambient and Pills, um, Amien and Alcohol, um, black woman, amazing writer.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and she or the first book was a memoir, and she just finished and sold a fiction book.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, it's very different.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I it was not as easy or seamless as I thought the process would be.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I'm very curious after writing Token Black Girl, being a writer for so long, how where did the vision for the Rules of Fortune come from?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And how did the process of writing that feel for you?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I always wanted to write a fiction book.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: I always wanted to be a fiction writer.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was my goal.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I didn't know how to do it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I did not get an MFA, and I studied English, but didn't study creative writing.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I was very intimidated by um wanting to like tackle that.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I wrote a memoir because it felt like the first book that had to come out, I guess.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like because I had spent a lot of years as a professional writer, like working in magazines and writing features and recorded stories and personal essays, it was very easy for me to like write a memoir because that's the kind of writing I do.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, all I have to do is like report the facts.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: How hard is that?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I because I had like been writing on the internet for so long, like I'm not embarrassed about like anything I have to say about myself.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm very like willing to disclose.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like I felt nervous about that part of it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was very straightforward.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then when my publisher gave me the opportunity to write a fiction book, I was really excited, but I had no idea what I was doing.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of wish that I did it differently.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think I romanticized what being a fiction writer was, more so than being a nonfiction writer, because I don't know, I had been doing that for years anyway.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wrote The Rules of Fortune with no outline, with like literally no plan, and I had no idea how it was gonna end.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: I have still to this day, I don't know why my acquisition editor was like, sure, we'll buy it.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like um, so and I feel like it it feels a bit disjointed, like that still.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like now when I think about it, I'm like, now that I have written a third book and that one is just tighter and more focused, I think that I was very nervous that I would not get the opportunity to write another fiction book again.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I tried to throw absolutely everything I could at the single book.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that the story got really big and where it should have been a bit more narrow.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I did something so ambitious, which was that I told a story with four main characters, and it starts one place and then has to diverge, and then like has to come.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Back together.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so there's also like four different timelines.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: The amount of math and um stress that I had to go through with like the copy edit team to like make sure that like everything made sense.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I will never do that again.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know what I was thinking.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really grateful that I got the opportunity to do it.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: I still think it is a good book, but I don't know if it is the best book that I could have written.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: But it's the best book that I guess I could have written with what I knew.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know differently.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: So moving forward, they'll all be better.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Every every author is different though with fiction.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, with all writing.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially, I'm an outline person.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: I need to know where I'm starting and where I'm going.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then some people actually just submitted a story to Modern Love, and it was the first time I didn't do an outline.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, let me try this non-outline thing out where people just like freely write.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I did have an editor who gave me two rounds of feedback.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I meticulously edited for weeks and weeks and weeks before I submitted it.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I feel more comfortable knowing where I'm going.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: But everyone is so different.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so with your third book, I'm curious to hear about, did you have an outline?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have a different process?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: I did have a different process.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um also because I was writing a slightly different genre.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's a book that is more of a mystery because it opens with a murder and there's a body.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so Rules of Fortune has a death, but it two deaths, but they're more circumstantial deaths.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like, hmm, the the the morality is a bit more vague, but this is very clear cut.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew that I needed to like wrap it up in a very concrete way.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: And also like yeah, the not knowing where I wanted to end the rules of fortune, I think held up the editing process significantly because we were going back and forth about like what should happen.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I feel like I got talked into things that I didn't necessarily want to do, and then I felt very rushed.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to like make sure that I was making the decision ahead of time.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is the third book finalized?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it's finalized, I guess, from my end.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's now with copy edit.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: So then they'll send it back to me.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And there's like a few more things that have to happen, but it'll be f done done in September.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: What's the title?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the title is called The Flock right now, but there might be another book coming out in 2027 also called The Flock.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to see if it will still be called that.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just stay tuned.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um Do you uh do you have any dreams of writing more nonfiction?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or will you just or for the fourth book, I guess.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: I got some really good advice from my editor.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and that was you do not want to become the kind of writer that has to like dig up their own life and dig up themselves constantly to be published.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, it's so true because it gets very exhausting after a while.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like after my memoir came out, um, and my younger sister was on a television like a reality television show, it's very popular.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so it just felt like everyone had a judgment about our family or how we were raised or how we speak and how we look.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like it was overwhelming.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I am like, I guess I want to be known for like what I do, not just like known in general.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it felt very uncomfortable because I know that so many people making these judgments did not read the book, you know, or just like read the blurbs or just like read the summary or something.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that like made it challenging.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yeah, I don't really want to like keep excavating myself and my experiences like over and over and over again.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I they're just like, I don't really see a need for it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, when I I have other stories in my head and like it's fiction is an easier and I think better place to hide.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I hope that people come away with the rules of fortune and be like, wait, does she like this family?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Does she hate this family?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I have no idea.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: And like that's the point.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, what I think doesn't necessarily matter, like what serves the story best is like what I want to accomplish.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: But when you put yourself in it, I think that's very hard to do.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's very hard to remain neutral because like you might feel like you have to defend yourself or you have to explain.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, that's just not something I want to like keep doing.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: I still I write a newsletter, I still write personal essays all the time, but I'm now more selective about like details that I'll share about my life with the world.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I can only imagine being in the public eye, especially with having a sister on a reality show.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what that is, Danielle.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is how removed my 40-year-old self is.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So like I have no idea.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I can only imagine how that shapes things.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know if I share it with you, but my audience knows I'm working on a memoir.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's um exhausting in some some aspects of it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Some aspects of it are very freeing and beautiful, but I went to therapy yesterday and I was like, oh, writing about this is just oh.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, to dig up about yourself constantly can take its toll for sure.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah, I get it.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I was talking to someone recently about the chapters of life and feeling like I turned 40 last September.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So every few years I enter like not just a new year, but like a big new chapter.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this feels like a totally different life from the one that I had a few years ago.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Curious to know if you feel I'm like, what happened?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like that I feel like I had a decade that went a certain way, and then this this new decade feels very different.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, curious to know if you feel that same way.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what version of yourself has been birthed from you know the days before a token black girl to writing it to COVID to the health issues to now being a working author.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, I totally feel the same way.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like 10 years ago, if you would have told me at 25, no, at 26, that I would be living in Wisconsin, I would be like, what went wrong?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like what happened to you in your life?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Are you okay?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like that I would have been like, there's no way.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's no way.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's like New York forever.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, there's no way I would ever leave.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like that I would walk away from the industry that I fought so hard to be in.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that I would get a new career, that would be self-employed, like all these things I could never ever have imagined.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I would have been like, I don't want that.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you imagine that a younger version, I would have been like, no, that's not cool.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I again I have just become like more accepting.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that I moved out of New York City um to New Orleans, come like almost completely blind.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: I did like a Zoom tour of an apartment because it was in the pandemic.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I did not know a soul there except one guy who I went to tennis camp with.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the last time we saw each other was when we were like 16.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, no, I just I want to move somewhere warm.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: I want to move somewhere where you can have space, and I want to move somewhere that's like quiet because the noise in my apartment was actually driving me nuts.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I picked New Orleans because it was close flight-wise and close, like time difference-wise.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: I thought about moving to LA because I had worked in entertainment and I had been back and forth between LA and New York so many times over the like, you know, the last like five years that I was working in corporate, but and I had so many friends there, and I was like, oh yeah, I can just have a community, but it just felt so far from my family and just like a and time difference-wise, too.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I think this is kind of too much for me.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it like really took that leap of faith, and that was so transformative for me because number one, it was very humbling um to move some like I'm a native New Yorker as well.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that means that everyone I know is kind of like me.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like we all kind of think the same, we kind of move through life the same, we've had a lot of the same experiences.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And moving to a place where like that just like wasn't the case, and I did not fit in.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone thought I was a psycho when I first moved to New Orleans, and they were right because my energy was just so like go, go, go, do, do, do.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, had before I moved there, I had quit my corporate job and I was so not used to being like in charge of my own schedule.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was so not used to having like that kind of professional autonomy that like even if I didn't have work to do, I would just be sitting at my computer, like waiting for emails to come in.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, people could feel that.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: And New Orleans is called the big easy.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're not trying to like work themselves to death.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like they, it's just not the same kind of like mentality.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I when I was like there in therapy, like my therapist was like, okay, like, you know, you have this pool on the roof.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: You need to make sure you go to the pool once a week.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was just like my homework.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like once a week I had to, like, just during the week, not on the weekend where I felt like, oh, okay, I can go.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm allowed to go.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: This is my free time.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: But like embracing that I had free time, that I could do stuff when I wanted to.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: And like that was a huge learning curve for me that I had never really experienced before.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, like, just adjusting to that kind of life, adjusting to like befriending people who are just not in this like professional rat race.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I gotta do this so I can go here, so I can do this.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, like just like these building blocks of like achievement and status.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was just not present in New Orleans.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And like I didn't really know how to cope with that.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, wait, what do you guys mean you don't want to go to Cannes?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you mean you don't you don't like aspire to like, you know, be at Coachella?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Or you know what I mean?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what are you gonna do?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And like they just didn't care.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought that was so fascinating.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it just, I don't know, I think it was a that was like a very humbling experience.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, I met my boyfriend while I was in New Orleans, but he lived in Milwaukee, and so we did long distance for a while, but then over the course of like that happening, you know, I had um founded, co-founded a DEI consulting agency, and Donald Trump was elected to the presidency again, and DEI essentially became illegal, and we slowly lost every single client that we had, and don't have that job anymore.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, also like now, like that was my worst fear, essentially.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like not having steady, dependable work.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: That was like the worst thing I could have imagined.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: But having moved to New Orleans and like adjusting to like getting an identity outside of what I do, getting comfortable with like more flexibility and just things being a little bit more unknown was like an important skill set that I needed.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like, I mean, I came to Milwaukee.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yeah, I can move anywhere now.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I didn't know anybody there either.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I knew my boyfriend, but I didn't have any friends.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I still, and it's and it's a totally different culture than what was in New Orleans, like a completely, completely different one.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: So now I have to adjust to that too.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been really lonely for me.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that's why I wrote a book about female friendship because my friends are so important to me.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I moved to a city like for a man, which essentially I again, if you would have told me that 10 years ago, I'd been like, it's a lie.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: You would never do something like that.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: But so I moved to a city for a man, and then I'm like, oh my gosh, like, wait, I need women.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And how do I find them and where do I find them?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the really challenging thing about moving to a place like Milwaukee is that, well, just in Wisconsin in general, 70% of the people who live here are also from here.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: So when you meet most people, they have siblings, they have their friends from high school, they have their mom and dad here.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they're not necessarily looking to like make new friends.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's not a lot of transplants here.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: When I moved to New Orleans, New Orleans is very like insulated for native New Orleanians.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they don't really mix with transplants, which is fine because there were so many transplants when I was there.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like almost all of my friends were also transplants from like other major cities and like had come to New Orleans.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: And they were looking for community as well.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: In Milwaukee, I just don't find that people are really looking for that.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: And because I'm in like a relationship with a man, like so much of our life is like this like weird heteronormative thing.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have to like go on like double days with like other couples.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas like in New Orleans, I had tons of queer friends, single friends, married friends, friends and relationships.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And like here, um, it is very like middle America.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like when they talk about like the Midwest, like that's what it is.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like you are a woman, you're in a relationship with a man, you probably got married at 30 or before, you're gonna have two kids, you have a job, you have an SUV, and like that is your life.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, whoa.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, even though like I'm of age, I'm 37.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I'm of age to like um, I guess want those things.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still like, but I'm fun and I'm young and I'm like wait, right.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do much, but I don't want to do like a farmer's market because I don't cook and I don't care.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like I thought I'd like, wait, so no one's having like dinner parties and like I haven't, I just haven't like really broken into this like and again, it's because like so many of these people have children and that makes it really hard to do things like spontaneously and to like I don't know, it just like like when I lived in the French quarter in New Orleans, people just be like, Oh, I'm in your neighborhood, I'm stopping by.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I've loved that.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that was like one of the things that like I wanted.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: I loved a surprise pop in, or like, oh, can I come over to the pool?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be like, Yes, like this is amazing.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we could just hang out for hours.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't really feel like I can achieve that here because it's like everyone's gotta be like, I gotta get childcare, I gotta do this, I gotta do that, I gotta go home and walk my dog.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh yeah.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are there black people in Milwaukee?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there are, but yes, there's a lot of black people in Milwaukee.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um it is literally the most segregated place I have ever lived in my entire life.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the West usually is, yeah.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: There are, yeah.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: They have, they really they did their big one, like when they built the highways and all the ways that they did it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um so in my I moved into a new building in February.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: And in my building alone, I have a black doctor that lives upstairs, and this other black guy that lives here, I think he works in tech and me.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and there's only 12 units.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually think that's like for the neighborhood, it's pretty good.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: The demographic is pretty good.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: And in my old building, I also had a lot of black neighbors, and it it was very dependent on like transplants.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I work from home, and so a lot of people here also like go to the office, which also makes it like hard to like meet these trans.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: So there was like people who have um brought, you know, workers, employees in from other cities, but they go to an office.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: So then their friends are their work friends, and then I still don't really get to meet them.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um that makes it a little hard.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I totally get it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just had flashbacks I shared before we started recording that I've moved, I guess, three times Chicago to Boston, Boston to LA, LA to nowhere else.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, it's it's it's it's challenging to meet people and make friends.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I've been talking about friendships so much lately, but after college or when you were a working professional, or just especially the older we get the woman in her 30s, you know.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um both of those cities, Boston in particular, uh, was very similar, very segregated, in my opinion.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: And also the people there had their friends.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: They either grew up there or they went to school there.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big college town, and so your friends are there.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: I went there when I was 27 or 28, trying to build community and meet friends, and people already had their friends, you know.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really interesting.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I have a lot of hope for you.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: You you have a man.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have that back then, so that made it even more difficult.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, transition is is interesting.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Even when it's good for us, it still takes takes a while, you know.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: It does, which is why I feel like I tried to be now in this place of acceptance because fighting it slash resisting it is just like really not good.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I did that when I first moved to New Orleans.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: I fought so hard to like make it like New York, Louisiana.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: And like, what was I thinking?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: What was I trying to do that for?
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I moved to the place.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: I have to adjust to like how this is, not like what I expect, and and this place has to adjust to me.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, just like I guess approaching things with more humility.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's how I've moved here now in Milwaukee.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it does, I think, make things a bit easier.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I am a very social person.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very extroverted, and I need my friends.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like as much as I love my boyfriend, like he's no Bravo universe history knowledge.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's like, his like, you know, his tism is that he is like, oh, like he knows every sports fact that's like ever been.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: He knows like people's like full training history.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't care about that.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to talk about the real hotspots of Atlanta.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to talk about that.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Which is, and like there is just something missing.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's great this season.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's great this season.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think Angela Oakley is hilarious.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: She is so funny.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's very funny.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: So funny.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, K Michelle has grown on me.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so many things to talk about.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like Pets Porsche is like the hit honcho these days.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what's pinky is, I mean, they're hilarious.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, who got who thought to put this group of women together?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's really interesting.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll never give it up.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah, it's important.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'll never give it up, and that's what I want to do.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to talk about Love Island.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, I need girls for that.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I also understand that it's hard when when other because I feel it too.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: When I'm in a relationship, it's hard to like like it's like you're managing two people's schedules.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: My boyfriend also has two kids.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: So like though I am not their parent, like we still have, you know, them every other weekend.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it just it requires a lot more.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Planning than I was ever used to before.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a really hard adjustment to like make.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that's the hardest one.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have a four-year-old, Daniel.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so once you decide to unfreeze those eggs, girl, come out over this parenthood.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, let's do interparenthood with your own children.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: We will have a new podcast episode because that's its own absolute world.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it is.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's like, yeah, I was always so sure about wanting to be a parent, which is why I froze my eggs seven years ago.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was like, yeah, I'm 30.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: I've got this.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't, I don't have a partner, but I want to be a mom.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm like, uh, I don't know.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of nice over here.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yikes.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Girl.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's so intense.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's intense.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've how old are the how old is children?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: 11 and 14.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: 11 and okay.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: At least they're older.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in the thick of the toddler phase right now.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: But also older is like teenagers, hormones, and other things, you know.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so what's nice about like a young child is they don't know too much.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: So they're very willing to, like, you know, I I volunteer um reading to three and four-year-olds.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, and I interact with them like quite a bit.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: And they like, yes, of course they can have their tantrums, but like they effectively listen.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: They're not telling you stuff, but like teenagers, they know everything.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, they know everything.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they're scary.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, scary am I really am.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I you know it feels like in the book where I'm like, oh my God, I'm trying to get acceptance from these girls.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like it really, it's a that is also kind of just like a weird wound that gets like kicked.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, I have to like, I need them to think I'm cool.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: I need them to think I'm capable.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: I need to impress them.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it feels yeah, it feels very stressful.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like small children, at least right now, they know what you tell them.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you tell them this is how things are, and you still want them in the form now and then you're not going to be able to think you're cool.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: They think you're cool no matter what.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: They love you no matter what.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter's in preschool, so she has her friend.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's just she has a full life in her own little world.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, like they look up to you, they're like, wow.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And like, yeah.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: The older they get, it's like, oh my god, you're scared.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, nope, I see what you're trying to do.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Danielle, um, this has been wonderful.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am so grateful that you were able to join me today.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um last question for you.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: When do you feel most at home in your body these days?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think that again, I've been in I've been through so many ups and downs like over the last decade with my body.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for a long time, especially when I was going through the struggle with the fibroids, it felt so foreign to me.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, this is not my own.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: And which is also something that intimidates me about pregnancy.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, where I'm like, I can't, I don't know if I can do this again.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Where like I have something inside me that I just I'm like, for how long?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I feel nervous because I know it changes you.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: I and all of my friends say this, it changes you so much, emotionally, physically, psychologically.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm like, oh my God, I just went through this and I'm just starting to feel normal again.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just starting to feel like myself and like my bot, like I'm trusting my body now.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like it has like that, getting the five birds out and just like having this year where I can like do the stuff that I know in my brain that I could do again.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's just felt so good.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um I I think I'm nervous about like holding on to that perhaps um because it does feel really great.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would say I probably feel like most at home when I'm like relaxing, like you know, where I'm not forcing myself to do anything.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, like I like being active, like the endorphins are very good for me.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a very anxious girly, so like exercise feels really good, but I don't overdo it.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like again, like maybe 10 years ago, I was doing exercise classes twice a day.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was just pushing myself so hard.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: And now, and through therapy, the you know, therapist I was in New Orleans, she was like, it's okay if you do one thing a day.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's okay if that one thing a day is not physical activity.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I never under, I could not understand that.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, no, I have to do this every single day.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just felt like I had to.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so like, yeah, when it feels good, I do it.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: When it doesn't feel good, and I'm like, uh, no.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right now it's the summer, so I feel amazing.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a heat wave too in Wisconsin right now, which everyone else hates, but I'm loving.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it's 90 degrees, and I'm so happy.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone's like, oh my god, this is the worst.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, when you guys walk around with no coats on and it's 20 degrees, that's the worst.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's awful.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's awful.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I feel like I'm feeling more at home now and and just yeah, really good.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: But the best thing for me is like actually doing nothing and being okay with doing nothing because that was never really something that I was able to achieve before.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the growth.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Danielle.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Where can people find you and connect with you?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can find me on Substack.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: I write a newsletter called Highly Recommended.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: And my goal for Leo season is to get one new paid subscriber for every day of Leo season.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm hoping to achieve that.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and my full name is Danielle Prescott, but Prescott is spelt P-R-E-S-C-O-D.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people spell it with two T's, but that is not right.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I'm on all of the social apps.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Ugh, they're just so toxic though.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I try not to be on them as much as I used to be.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's not as fun.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: My TikTok is like basically dormant because after the sale, it just feels bless you.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: It just feels so not like somewhere I want to hang out.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really love hanging out on Instagram.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: But again, because I live so far away from like my friends and family, like I go on there to see their lives and to share my life because it's kind of the lazy girls' way of like keeping in touch.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm also really bad on text message.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: So you're like, I'm alive, I'm still here.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'd rather just upload an Instagram story.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm you know I'm here.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I will put your links uh to your Substack and all the other places in the show notes.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Danielle.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: This was wonderful.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.