Latest / Mooney's Mythic Podcast / Snow White, trust and Charlie Wilsons Poetry

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Snow White, trust and Charlie Wilsons Poetry · Mooney's Mythic Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Mooney's Mythic Podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, welcome.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for tuning in to this episode.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's such good company in a really quiet and lonely place for me.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's any of you that are feeling that sunken space of loneliness, come right in, come right in.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's keep each other company for this while.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Craig,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: for playing the pipes downstairs because it does feel like good company when
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: someone's playing music around me.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in that way, thank you for all you musicians, all you people who are creating.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being so alive and creating living things all around us.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was a hard one to arrive at this podcast.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure how it's going to go.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to be there for you.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be here for you.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be here for myself.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So here I am.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I considered waiting for Craig to finish with his pipes,
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: but I've so longed for him to play whilst I've been doing a podcast.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: So here he is.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see how that rolls and how that is with our attention.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: But for now, let's just...
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank the musicians, thank the heralds, you know, these pipes that herald the way, that clear the way.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So let's see in front of us anything that might get in the way.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's just clearing, clearing, clearing.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds clearing.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And of course he stops.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have to get him up here to record at some point,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm not going to do that today because I'm in bed.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm in bed with something flimsy on and that just wouldn't be appropriate.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it's hot,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: and I've been doing my podcast research and they talk a lot about having soft
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: furnishings around you.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I started to make what looked a little bit like my bed around my office and I thought,
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just get in bed.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I am in my bed it's way too hot to be in my bed but that's how I'm feeling so
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: tender my whole body my heart and my soul is feeling so tender and I've got a hunch
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: that it's a bit of an end of a summer kind of a feeling so I'm bringing this
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: feeling to this podcast in the trust that um that somewhere we're all feeling a bit
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: a bit tender I'm feeling a bit overexposed
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: maybe from all the storytelling I've been doing, from all the out there I've been doing.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm simultaneously feeling alone, lonely and totally overexposed.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not really sure what the steps are for me.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Here I am.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your amazing responses to the last podcast.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to those people who have got in touch with some really personal sharing
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: about how it touched them.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: It moves me and it keeps me going to the next pod and the next pod and the next pod.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think because I shared from such a personal place,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: from such a deep place,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: that's probably why I'm feeling a bit vulnerable now.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got this poem that I was reading this morning by my friend Charlie Wilson,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm just going to read it to you before I go on.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's called So Many Things.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know how it feels to be a comet burning through the atmosphere,
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: cut adrift in skin that doesn't feel like home.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know what it is to be grasping the cliff with the edge of one fingertip,
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: the sea crashing rocks in a cacophony below.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know the word pain and all its singing.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know the sting.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know these pictures touch some meaning but never show the depth of where you've been.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I stood like a tree through the longest winter.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I cracked and splintered, tearing holes in my clothes.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I stood naked being whipped by the strongest wind.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: The rain fell like tears, cutting against my skin as I asked to be born again.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I know the dirt that sticks in your throat, the words that choke.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know what it is to be held under a mountain.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, feeling that weight.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can you feel that weight?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: that weight of lifting up a life,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: of lifting up our lives,
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: of being present at every moment,
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: just feeling that weight.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling the weight of watching
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: a woman having dates in a fried chicken shop on the internet.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Of all the ways I've wasted my time in the last few days,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: just in a place of not being able to quite reach into what I'm feeling or somehow
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: not being able to be ready to feel what I'm feeling,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: just feeling that weight,
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: feeling that weight and then
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Just letting it go.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Just letting it go.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Letting it go.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we did that last week, didn't we?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Softening up.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Softening up like melting butter.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like the summer has softened me and melted me and there's bits of me
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: that are going a bit rancid.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's bits of me that are going a bit rancid and need some kind of action but I'm not sure what yet.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Charlie, for that poem to open the door for us into this podcast today.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking that my
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: dad if he was alive I wouldn't have been able to record that podcast in the way
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: that I did last week I wouldn't have been able to talk about sex and my
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: vulnerability around men if he was still alive and I was feeling really grateful
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: for his death I was feeling really grateful for all the space that his death has
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: has opened up and it felt like such a good and big feeling
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly I felt the other side of that and I've been missing men and I've
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: been missing him and noticing that I don't have so many brothers around me and not
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: really sure anymore how to go about calling them in.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when I started thinking about this story that I'm going to tell in a minute.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been so conflicted about doing this pod today.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then I met my friend in the park so she could tell me about her wedding that I couldn't come to.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she was telling me about her seven bridesmaids and how they didn't have bouquets.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of them had a bouquet that she made for herself.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the others, they all held different things.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: One held chimes and one held a lantern.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: One held incense.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I just knew that this is the right story to be told at this time.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado,
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to just tell you this story and then I'm going to talk about it afterwards.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: once upon a time in the highlands where it was colder than the rest of the places
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: where there was still some snow on the mountain peaks where the trees were dark and
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: thick
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: and so much of the forest still untouched, there was a queen.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she sat by her window,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: her ebony-framed window,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: with her embroidery,
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: and she looked at the snow on those peaks.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: and so caught up in gazing out of the window she was that she didn't notice that
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: she'd pricked her finger until three drops of blood fell.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And she looked at that blood,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: and she looked at the black of the ebony frame of her window,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: and she looked out at the snow,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: and she thought,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: with a kind of swooning heart,
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: she thought,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: wouldn't it be wonderful if I had a daughter with bright red lips and black,
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: black hair and skin as white as snow.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was and so it came about that she did indeed have a gorgeous, beautiful, beautiful daughter.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And she called her Snow White.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And she grew up and became a curious and charming toddler.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the mother, she absolutely reveled in her.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: She absolutely loved her.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was like having a reflection of herself.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And someday she was tired, the mum, and
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the birth, it took it out of her and it made her feel kind of old and dull.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she had this mirror.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And she would ask this mirror, mirror, mirror, who is the fairest of them all?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the mirror would always look back at her and say, well, you're the fairest, my queen.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're the fairest by far.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that satisfied the queen.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And she was clinging.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Clinging to her looks.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Clinging to her looks with nails that clawed on to the edge of a cliff.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But she was changing, she knew it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And as she was changing, her daughter was just getting more beautiful.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: More bouncing, more fresh, more alive.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't want to.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: She started to feel jealous.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: She started to feel a kind of gnawing green deep inside her.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Until she couldn't bear it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Until she started to just not quite have the patience for her daughter anymore.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Until she started to try and restrict the bubbling and the freshness and the beauty about her.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: and she would pull her plaits too hard,
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: and she would be stern with her when the girl had done nothing wrong.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And one day,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: the day came that she had been dreading,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: the day came that she had been trying not to happen for such a long time.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest one of all?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: My queen, you may be the fairest here, but Snow White is a thousand times more fair.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the queen couldn't sleep that night.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: She ground her teeth so hard and she could feel her face contracting and her
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: shoulders contracting and her whole body bony and angular with hatred until she
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: called the huntsman and she said,
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: get rid of her.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the huntsman looked shocked.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Kill your own daughter?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, she said.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Go take her into the woods, kill her and bring back her heart.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so the huntsman did as he was told.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: He took that dear child, laughing and giggling and stomping into the woods.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: But when she saw him high above her with the dagger, she started to tremble and cry.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Please, no, she said.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Please, no.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he looked at her and those eyes so begging and pleading and innocent, he just couldn't do it.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: So he just said, run.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And he slayed a deer and he cut out the heart of the deer and he brought it back to
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: the queen and she gobbled it up.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And she imagined that the freshness and the aliveness and the beauty and the youth was going into her.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Snow White, she ran and she ran and she ran.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: She ran through the woods.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: She cut her elbows and she cut her knees and she didn't stop,
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: although her heart was hammering and her feet were sore.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: She just kept on running and wild animals would go past her, boar and deer and rabbit and squirrel.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: They would shoot past her and each time they did,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: she was frightened still,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: but nothing frightened her more than the glimmering shimmer of the knife of the huntsman.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so she kept on running.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Until she had nothing.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Until she was totally drained.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't know if it was night or day.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: She was so parched and so hungry.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there in the clearing was a dwelling.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And she went inside and everything was just so, it looked so well cared for.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't even any washing in the washing up bowl.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: The floor had been swept.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And on the beautiful round wooden table were seven places laid and a little bit of
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: food on all seven places and a goblet filled with fresh spring water.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: She took a sip from the first goblet and then a sip from another and a sip from
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: another until she'd had a sip from all seven goblets.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then she took a tiny bit of food,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: rearranging the plate so no one would notice at first,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: but after she'd had seven bites,
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: she had seven more.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then she felt so tired.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Such a weariness.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Running and running and running and running for so long.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Running away from, she couldn't even remember what she was running away from.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And she saw there were seven beds and she tried them until she found the seventh bed.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And whether it was right or not for her, she lay and she fell asleep.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: They came back.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Those seven men.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Those seven dwarves.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: They came back.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they got in and they hung their things up and they went to sit around the round
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: table as they always did.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they noticed straight away
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: That things had been touched and changed.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: They noticed straight away.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's been eating my food.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's been drinking my goblet.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too, me too, me too, me too, me too.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then they looked over.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's messed my bed up.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's laid on my bed.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's been in my bed.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's scrunched about in my bed.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's in my bed.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they all peered over.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: The sleeping young girl
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Snow White.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And slowly, they decided, quietly, they decided that they would leave her to sleep.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they all got in their beds,
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: and the seventh one cuddled up with each one of the other dwarves through the night,
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: so as not to disturb her.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And in the morning she woke up and they were all sitting at the table and she was terrified.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: They were stern looking and they had lots of hair and they were muscled and they
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: were rough and they didn't speak much.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: she froze.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And one looked over and they saw that she was awake and looked deep,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: deep,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: deep at her and then looked away again and said,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: you're safe here.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they didn't say much more because they weren't the kind of people to say much more.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: but they took good care of her.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they went out to work in the mountain where they dug for minerals,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: where they dug for gold,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: where they dug for crystals.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they lived together in that way for a long time.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she grew
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And she dropped because she felt safe.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she flourished again.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Until the day came when the Queen,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: who was quite satisfied and didn't need to ask for such a long time,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: couldn't help herself but to go to her mirror and say,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Mirror,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: mirror on the wall,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: who is the fairest of them all?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Here, you're the fairest, my dear queen.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: But little Snow White,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: who plans to stay with the seven dwarves so far away,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: is now the fairest ever seen.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And she was furious.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: That huntsman had lied while he was long gone,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: and she knew that she was going to have to deal with this herself.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So she put a disguise on her face,
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: covered it and she wrapped a cape around her head and she put in a basket some
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: laces for a bodice because she knew that Snow White would be wearing a bodice and
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: she found that place in the woods and she knocked on the door.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: oh i'm just an innocent old lady won't you let me in she said and snow white so
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: innocent just opened the door
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I've got these laces.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm selling them.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: She said, oh, I haven't got any money.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't like to ask the dwarves for any money.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: She said, oh, you poor, poor thing here.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let me look in your blouses all loose at the back.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Let me put a lace in it for you.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And criss-cross, criss-cross, criss-cross, criss-cross.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: She pulled the lace tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter until...
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Snow White fell to the floor and when the dwarves came home they thought she was
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: dead and they cried and they wept but one of them they pulled and they pulled and
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: they loosened the laces and then she started breathing again.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Snow White we thought we'd lost you and it was only then that they started
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: saying how lovely it was to have her around and how they'd
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: She'd brought so much with her sweet singing and with her presence in the house,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: how much they enjoyed having her there.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And after that, life was even better for them.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't take anything for granted.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Snow White, just don't let anyone in.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just do not let anyone in.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then the Queen went to her mirror again.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Here you're the fairest, my dear queen.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: But little Snow White,
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: who plans to stay with the seven dwarves so far away,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: is now the fairest ever seen.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Arrgh!
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Snow White!
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I need to go and kill her!
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so she put on an even more disgusting disguise, a big nose.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, quick aside, nothing wrong with a big, healthy nose.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And she put a wig on and off she went with a comb, which she had poisoned.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, knock, knock, just selling my wares, just selling my wares.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Snow White said, I'm really sorry, I can't let you in.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the old woman said, oh, nonsense, you don't need to buy anything.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Just look at your messy, messy hair.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let me comb it for you.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she got the comb and she dug it in so hard.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And Snow White fell to the ground.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why she was when the dwarves found her.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, Snow White, Snow White, oh.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: But they pulled out the comb.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and it was just enough to get her heart beating again.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Snow White, Snow White, don't open the door, don't open the door.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe one of us should stay with her, they said.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe she'd, no, don't be silly, she said.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather go into the mountains with you.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather go into the caves with you.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's our work, no, no.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Not those white hands, Snow White, not those lily white hands.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was that she was left again in the home.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was that the Queen asked the mirror again.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Here you're the fairest,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: my dear queen,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: but little Snow White,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: who plans to stay with the seven dwarves so far away,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: is now the fairest ever seen.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this time, she said.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And she went into a tiny alcove where she only did her most private and poisonous work.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And she came out with an apple, which was green on one side and a red on the other.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And she went to that little cottage.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And she knocked on the door and the snow white said out of the window,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to let you in.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, you do not need to let me in, but I would like to break bread with you.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to share my apple with you.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Snow White just felt like, what harm can be done from sharing this apple?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: But she was still a bit worried.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: She was thinking, well, that apple could be poisoned.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the queen said, she is the queen, but she's a disguise, isn't she?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, look, I will take a bite first.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she had a bite out of the green pot.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then Snow White had a bite out of the red pot.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it lodged as soon as it touched her throat.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: She fell down.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when the dwarves found her, there was nothing that they could do to revive her.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they mourned and mourned and mourned her.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And at first they didn't know what to do.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't want to take her down into the dark where they spent all day.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: She was their bit of sunshine.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: She was their breath of fresh air.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they made, with all their skill, a coffin of glass, like a frozen temple.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they took it up,
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: up to the top of the mountain where the snow did sprinkle,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: where the air was cold and where she would be preserved.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: They kept vigil by her and they mourned her.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they told stories about their lives together.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they sang songs of great lament and they wept.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And this went on for a long, long time and it became quite famous.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: People would come and see the maiden in the casket and people would come and they
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: would lay a flower down and the wild animals would come.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then one day there was a man that came
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And he saw her and he felt the gap in his heart, in his psyche, where the feminine had never flourished.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he felt his longing to be held in the arms of the feminine.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: He felt his longing to be softened and opened.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he asked the dwarves if he could take the coffin with him and they said no, no.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: But they also knew that they were coming to the end of their vigil and they knew
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: because there was a soft wind blowing.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: A soft wind of change and they thought perhaps it was time.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: to take her down from the mountain, and certainly they could do with this big human's help.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they lifted up the coffin, and they took it down, but they weren't sure.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't sure,
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: and he was very,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: very tall,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: and they were very,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: very small,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: and so the coffin was at an angle for a moment,
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: and they slipped.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: And as they slipped, that...
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: piece of apple which had been trapped in Snow White's mouth was dislodged and she
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: awoke and out of the coffin she climbed and there all around her those seven
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: dwarves and this stranger and they all walked down the mountain together
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: and they got to know each other.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And in the way that stories are all and all of us,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: the way that stories contain all of us,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: all the bits inside us,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: she felt all the bits inside her coming together into what we call a marriage.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just imagine that we're Snow White.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let's call forth the vulnerable part of us,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: the fresh shoots,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: the new places,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: the places that parts of us might be threatened by because they're going to create change.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Parts of us might have to be put down or let go because there's this new shooting coming forth.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And seeing around us seven beings.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to tap the drum like this with a steady heartbeat tap.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And when I tap it like this, we're going to feel, imagine, see
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: A being in front of us.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to go around to all seven of those.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: They might be bridesmaids.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: They might be dwarves.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: They might be turnips.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: But we're going to go around seven times and we're going to imagine that.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: In the hands of these creatures,
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: these people,
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: they're going to hold something like a gift or a sign or something that is going to
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: protect and support the nourishing of our new roots,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: of our fresh places.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the first one.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there they are,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: our seven ambassadors from the earth,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: around us in a huge circle,
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: offering us gifts,
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: offering us support,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: fealty.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we just turn around in a circle and we thank them.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: We thank them all.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And there we are, we're Snow White.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what I think is important about this story is that we've all heard it and it
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: can help us to break so many spells.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so deep in our psyche that we can really use it for our benefit.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just going to go back to the beginning and talk about it a little bit as I understanding it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And Clarissa Pinkola-Estees,
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: who wrote Women Who Run With The Wolves,
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: she talks a bit about it in one of her audio books.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she talked a bit about it when I trained with her in America.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there'll be a bit of that woven in as well of what I received from her.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: But let's go back to the beginning.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: to the woman on by the way in the Grimm's version in the very first Grimm's version
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: because it was changed uh the mother it wasn't a wicked stepmother it was the
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: mother um and in lots of the stories the mother in these stories get changed into
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: the wicked stepmother but I really um wanted to reintegrate retell the story with
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: the queen being the mother because um
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are parts, if we look at it as a map for our inside, there are destructive parts in ourselves.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And sort of making it once removed as a stepmother might make it more palatable for Disney,
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: but when we're working in a deep way.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the juicier, the better.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: So there she is, the mother.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's sitting there and she's kind of dreaming about,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: wouldn't it be lovely to have a pretty child?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was reading a while ago about this story and she talked about who was it that said that?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've got it written down here if you give me a moment.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Someone said that the ebony frame, it's Sandra Gilbert and Susan Gubar.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: They say that the ebony frame is like the figure trapped.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: The woman's trapped in this frame.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: So she's not out there in the snow.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then later on, she's trapped by the mirror.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then the Snow White is trapped by the glass coffin.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there's this theme going through the story.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So she's sitting there,
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: she's like,
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: and I remember that feeling of like,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: wouldn't it be nice to have a baby?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or it'd be lovely to have a baby, you know, or a little baby to hold and cuddle.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, wouldn't it be nice if they had red lips and black hair and, you know, white skin?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, really keeping white skin out of the sun these days is such a hassle.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so there she is.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so her dream becomes manifest again.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and in the in childbirth, she goes from maiden to mother.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot that happens when you go from maiden to mother.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: You can become really invisible in a lot of ways,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: especially if you're trading on your on your looks or on your kind of maidenhood in
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: order to gain power or purchase in your life.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of disappears automatically.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: when she becomes a mother.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: particularly in different,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: it's not so much now,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: think about when,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: you couldn't breastfeed in public,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: or there was no facilities for moms in public,
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: and you just couldn't go out in public.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I can imagine that
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: that's difficult for a mother with a daughter and then um this this perfect perfect
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: daughter that's uh you know built in her likeness or is the beauty that she wants
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: she starts having her own will and her own mind and and all these things that the
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: queen uh that doesn't fit into the queen's ebony frame you know so she starts
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: having these murderous thoughts about her and so she wants the
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: She wants that vitality for herself.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: So she tries to crush her with the huntsman part of her and suck up her vitality for herself.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't work because the being inside that is Snow White
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: finds a way to flourish out of harm's way with these dwarves.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: these dwarves,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: they're like Dr.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: E,
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Clarissa Pinkola Estes,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: talks about them being really like salt of the earth,
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: the mineral of the earth.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: They are totally dedicated to the mother, totally dedicated to the earth.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're miners.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And in the Disney version, I think they say something like, if you cook and clean for us, you can stay.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: But in the original Grimm's version, it's very clear that she comes to a very clean and tidy house.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: These are good men who take good care.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in that way, they take good care of her.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then the part, the queen, she can't rest whilst Snow White is still alive.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so she still tries these different ways of undermining her and trying to stop,
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: to thwart her growth and her well-being.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it reminded me when I sent a story once to, there were two women, two older women.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was quite young, not going to call them out, but I was quite young.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I sent a story to be part of a ritual they were doing saying, I'd love to read this story.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them got back to me and said, yeah, it's not really the sort of thing we want.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not the right season.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's what she said.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I sent her another one.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: that I did have, which was in alignment with that season.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: She said, yes, not that either.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the other woman took the time to come around my house and say, Sarah, I don't know what it is.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've talked to her about it.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: We've had a row about it, but I think it's jealousy.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: And these are very powerful women.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I started to understand that
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: that there is a thing of kind of jealousy from the older woman to the younger woman.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: And Clarissa Pinkola-Restee says a woman has to get to a time in her life,
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: every woman gets to a time in her life where she's got to decide she's not bitter.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely felt that when young storytellers sort of came along and had much
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: more freedom in self-expression than me.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: I did feel jealous.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I really, truly, I really own that I felt that in my life.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's such a relief not to feel that anymore.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a relief to be able to celebrate the flourishing of the young.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I really hope that we can all...
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: through this story, let go of those feelings.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so back to this place where I'm at now, where I'm feeling like I just don't know.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't know what...
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: is the next step forward for me with my podcast with my story so I feel like I'm at
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: a real crossroads and I am calling forth those dwarves of protection of anchoring
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: of real love and honor around me
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: to give me the space for something new to flourish up if it needs to, if it wants to.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in the original Grimm's story,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: the queen comes to the wedding and the dwarves have fashioned for her some poker
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: hot shoes.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: And she puts them on and she kind of dances herself to death.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I can really feel those jealous parts of us that just, they're just, they're just...
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: kill themselves with their own bitterness and their own jealousy and all of those negative feelings.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And jealousy is just a signpost for suppressed power.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of putting it out there onto those people, let's go in.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that's really triggering about that person?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are they more free in some way?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are they good at this?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have that?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that we've always put a lid on inside of us?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And just how can we protect that place so that it's got the space around it to really flourish?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my thinking about Snow White.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this has been quite a serious pod.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've put a single joke in.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I usually do, but sometimes I'm just in a funny mood, you know, and I'm just not.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in a serious mood today.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you, thank you, thank you for listening.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to read another one of Charlie's poems before I finish.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't booked a place on the
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: handless maiden retreat in Wales in September do because I have only got a couple
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: of places left and I'd really love to have you if you want to come it's in the on
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: the beautiful dance camp Wales land and we're going to do some very special things
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: with story working with them in different ways but but really we're just having
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: time to
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: to work with myth as a way of flourishing our souls,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: as a way of really spending time with ourselves and for ourselves.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: So this poem I used to read to Noah quite a lot when he was little.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of my favourite poems.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Charlie, for saying yes to me reading these out on this podcast.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for being a poet, a young man poet in our field, in our tribe, in our community.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to all the poets out there,
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: all the people that are doing things that are not quite in the mainstream,
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: who are holding their light,
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: who are doing things a little bit differently.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's called honour.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Honor the warrior who claimed his power and took a stand in the final hour and
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: spoke his truth in hallowed halls and battlefields and made his call and fought for
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: love and all that's real.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Honor the man who stood up tall and played it out for the good of all,
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: who raised his voice above the din and wouldn't lie down
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: and wouldn't give in.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Honour those who shone so bright their star filled up the darkest night and showed
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: a hope that shone through fear and made it all just seem so clear.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Honour souls that came to teach and climbed as high as they could reach and burned
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: a flame they liked to see that reached into the heart of me.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Honouring all those people that have walked before us.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Honouring all the people that have cleared the way somehow for us to come through
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: and to flourish in the way that we do and the way that we are.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for listening.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you can share this pod anywhere,
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: if you can tell one person about it,
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: if you can write a review or a comment,
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: that would be amazing.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you so much.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: Blessings and love to you all and I'll talk to you next week.