Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION Ep. 304 - The Paines Revisited

Transcript

JFK ASSASSINATION Ep. 304 - The Paines Revisited · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Remember like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Rob Clark, job Bordelli in the Heart of Dallas, Rerigons
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: and Souls, tel Shadows, mysteries and sold but truth is
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: obscured in the depths of the night.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: The Lone gun And Podcast sheds a flickering life.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Section one oh seven of the Fair Use Act of
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six provides protection to use copyrighted material for research, analysis,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: education and commentary purposes. We hear at Loose Moose Productions
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: reserve that right now. On with the show. Here's Joe
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: b and the Triple b Hey Andrew Dean House things
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: in Texas.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Everything is going to Hey down here in Ductor.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: Chez Joey and Joey Joey and then trumble Bee, Mamy
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: Rumbley and Joey Rock Doggy shown trumble Me and Joey
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: Show Me and jumble Me, Mama Chummy and Joby rock
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: Doggy Shoe a rare shining.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I want to thinking and show the chef Jing and
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: here we go.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: And here we go.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: What is up? People? This is episode number three hundred
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and four of the Lone Guming Podcast. The Paynes Revisited
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: is what we're gonna be talking about today, and here
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: with me as always is my humble and handsome co host,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: mister Joey scars Barelli. What's up, Joe?
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Hey? What's up? Rob? How are you?
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I'm fantastic, I'm always psyched up to be here on
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a Friday evening with you and all of our lovely listeners,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: who we shall welcome into the fray.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Same here, sir.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Let's see. Uh we got Paula in the house, Tiny Dancer,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: of course, Trey Trey is in the house. South to west,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Claude and aunt you, Dene of course, Moose Heaven, Moose seven,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Paula Diana, Hello, Hello, Hello, Alpha sixty six, Big Mike
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: gardening guns and who thank you Jack off the bat
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: before we even started.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: We mightily appreciate it, we do, we do. Hell comes
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: to play? What's hubly?
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Hey? How are you? Sir?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Let's see here, Sally is in the house. What's up? Sally?
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Always a pleasure? Paul is in the house. James in
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: the house. Scott, Hello, Scott. Let's see that's about all
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I can see in here so far. So anyway, folks,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: welcome in, Welcome in, bungled, what's up? I see you slidening,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: slidening the cooney hair late. That's okay, it's okay, it's
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: in the house. What's up, Red? Awesome? Awesome, awesome, So Joe,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: before we get started, I believe we have some announcements
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: to make, don't we we do. Let's make them, we do.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Let's see as some of you know, the new Lancer
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: updated list speaker list has been shared on Facebook as
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: my I think we'll not bring up and there are
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: some new names on there. Can you see this problem prepared?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I can see it, Yes, all.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Right, Robert and Janet Groden, Mister Larry Hancock, Doug Campbell,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Alex Harris, Bill Simpitch, Gary Fennin, Sarah Jordan Heights, Brian Edwards,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: mister Chuck o'chlly, Brent Holland, Gail Nicks, Jackson, Rob, that
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: will be amazing, mister Paul Blow, Carmine Savastano, Mike Swanson,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: David Soylan, Dick Russell, Tricky.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Dick Darny, Dick Russell. Oh yeah, that was.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Your Bob Nelson, Will.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: O'hallerin, Willie. I don't Willy, he's a young guy.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: In the early twenties, we like young researchers, Casey Quinnlan
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Andy Keel, Joe Burrelly.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Oh that didn't sound good, Joe, That's okay.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, in retrospect it didn't. Uh. But Joe Burrelly, that's
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: a nice name.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: There, Joe BARRELLI, who the hell is that?
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Uh? Some skafooza. For sure, we'll be repping the t
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: LG down there, and we I definitely hope to see
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of people down there that I know I'll
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: see mister Mike hopefully Alpha sixty six, Matt DeWitt, Fred Littwin,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Rob and Jeff Me.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: There is a cat fight waiting to happen between Matt
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: down and Fred Litwin. If I've ever seen one, my
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: money's on Fred.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The when they made the post, a couple of
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: people had commented like, why is Fred talking? And I
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: think it was.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, but he's a good one.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, you've had on your show previously multiple times.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Fred is a friend. Yeah, and uh, even though we
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: don't see eyed eye on everything, he's not a dick
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: at least to me.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: And and if I remember, he has evidence to back
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: up his points, right, He's not just like a like
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: a real loan nutterer.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Loane Nutter.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I mean as much as a lone number can have evidence.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, although he wasn't he was fantastically wrong on the
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: point of you know, he almost had me convinced. We
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: did have me convinced that Oswald did not have five
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: forty four Camp Street, Uh, knowing the flyers, I remember that.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: But he has since been proven wrong. So he does
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: get some things wrong.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, we don't we all.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, trust me, there's a lot out
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: there on the Garrison case against clay Shaw that should
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: be exposed and should be out there that a lot
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: of these Garrison d suckers uh don't talk about. So
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: mm hmmm.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Apparently Gabrielle said in the comment, uh has that occurred?
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: That he's going to be presenting on a very interesting
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: topic and that's good all she gave. Uh, So who
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: knows what kind of topic it would be. I'm I'm
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm open to anyone who has opened viewpoints.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: And if you if you go here on YouTube and
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: search Fred Litwin's podcast out and listen to the opening song,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: you'll hear your boy fun Fact Friday.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't know I was in it, but apparently I'm
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: in the intro. Yeah, popularly. I respect that I am popular.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Popular, So yeah, and I'll get you know, I'm not
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna tease and not tell you who I might
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: be presenting with. I'll say it's a fellow friend of
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: the show. One might say it's a goumar in terms
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: of me and Rob's relationship. Uh, and that's all I'm
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: gonna give.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Wow, Joe and Tiny Dancer will be will be presenting
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: at Lancer. She just doesn't know it yet. Yeah, you
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: never know anyway, skating right over that time. Okay, I
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: say we got some new friends in the house. Perpetual concepts,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Steve O, what is up? What up? Chris? I'm across
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the pond. Is in the house, Twickenham, Twickenham.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think perpetual concepts. I think that's our
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: golfer friend. Wasn't he playing golf once and he couldn't listen?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Uh so perpetual concepts. I was offered a tea time
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: today at four pm at a country club here in Connecticut,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: a really nice course, and I declined it hurt. I
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: knew I would like to be rushing back maybe nine holes.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: But beautiful day. But the things we do for love right.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Wrong, that's right. I see Peter in the house pet
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: all right. So the reason for this episode, folks, is
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: let's get right into this here. Let me pull up,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Let me pull up, old lovely lady here, Sylvia Hyde Hoke.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Now she passed away back in May, but I don't
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: think it was really put out there yet, and they
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: are just now having a memorial service for her. Sylvia
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Hyde Hoak died Thursday, May twenty third, in Littleton, Colorado, Okay.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: File that away for later, at the age of ninety
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: four after a brief illness. Born in New York, New York,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: on October second, nineteen and twenty nine, Sylvia arrived just
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: weeks before the Great Crash that precipitated the Great Depression.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: She and her family shared a farmhouse in Freehold, New Jersey,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Joe with two other families in one house. It's like
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: two three girls, one cup for a period during the Depression,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: before they moved to Columbus, Ohio, where she graduated high
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: school as a top student in winner of a scholarship
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to attend any state university that she wanted, so instead,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: she elected to attend Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: where she married or majored in psychology. She then married
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: John Hoake Junior the day after their graduation from Antioch
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty and immediately moved to Washington, d C.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Where she worked as a statistician for the Department of
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Labor Okay, and various other I think I missed that line,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: but it's said various other governmental agencies. Use your imagination.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: The growing family spent several years in Suriname, where John's
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: fascination with wild animals, including BoA's sloughs, McCalls McCalls and flourished,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and Sylvia's toleration for hosting such creatures in the home
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: crew After the family's returned to the DC area, turtles, snakes,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and tropical fish were the family's constant companions. I believe
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: they also had an orangutang. Joe M No. I don't know.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just kissing sounds fitting, uh, familiar to the many
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: visitors of the home in Bethesda, Maryland. Always politically active,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Sylvia was associated with the Women's National Democratic Club and
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: the National Organization for Women Now. She was a lifelong
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: reader who was especially fond of mysteries. Sylvia was predeceased
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: by her husband John and her son Edward. She's survived
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: by her brother Carl Hyde and sister Ruth Hyde Payne,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: both also Antioch College alumni, by the way, her son
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Franklin Hope, daughter in law Agatha Andrews, granddaughter Magdalene Andrews Hoak,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: and grandson and Levi Andrews Hope. Her daughter and grandson
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Cyril Said Drove, her son Edward's widow, daughter in law
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: val Ashenback, and her son Lawrence Hoke, granddaughter Nicolette Tuck,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Nicolete's husband Trevor Tuck, and grandson Jesse Hoak. A memorial
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: celebration of life will be held August seventeenth, twenty twenty four,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: eleven AM at River Road Unitarian Church, sixty three zero
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: one River Road. But there's the Maryland and Lewis Flowers.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Please send donations to the Democratic National Committee or Planned Parenthood.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so a diehard dim and I guess a protagonist
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: for abortions apparently. Now what's interesting? So she was living
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: in Colorado. I'm assuming at that age she was living
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: with one of her sons or daughters in Colorado, right,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: but for the majority of their life they lived in Bethesda, Maryland,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and of course we all know she worked at the
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: CIA among other government agencies doing what. I don't know,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: but that led me to think something, Joe. Okay, So
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: here's the church. This is the River Road Unitarian Church.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Now the reason I bring this up. That's a weird
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: looking church, don't you think?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty weird. That's the church, folks. Now, what's interesting
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: about this is, of course it caught my eye. River
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Road is kind of near where I live. If if
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: you go down you hop on the Beltway from Virginia
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and you're heading towards Maryland. It is the first exit
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: off the Beltway River Road, and it is in an
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: area of Bethesda slash Potomac, Maryland where a lot of
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: very very very very very very very very very very
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: rich people live. And I'm talking like, you know Dan Snyder,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: you know, owner of the Washington or former owner of
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the Washington Redskins slash Commanders, among many other notable names
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and rob.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, I have experience in Bethesda, Maryland. My ex girlfriend
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: of three years was from there, so I spent some
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: time there.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: And so you concur with me, that is a very
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: affluent area.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: You live fluent as you can get. You know, a
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: lot of people from DC government jobs, et cetera.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's like country living right near DC. Here's an example,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: just an example, a couple of examples. This house, now
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: it doesn't look like anything crazy, but seven bedroom, five
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: and a half Bass River Road two point three five
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: million dollars to just sold in June. Okay. Here's another one. Okay,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: this is a three bedroom, three bath, nothing crazy, Okay,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: twenty four hundred square foot one point four million. So yeah,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: this is a very very affluent area. And I'm reminded
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of my research in the past with E. Howard Hunt. Now,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: at the time when I Howard Hunt was working at
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: the CIA, he also lived on River Road at this
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: address one one one two oh River Road, Rockville, Maryland, Okay.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Today the home there is valued at one point six
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: two six million dollars.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: It was a three bedroom, three bath house. This Uh,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: this thing on the left is the street, but you
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: can't even see it from the street. It's it's sitting
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: on two and a half acres right off River Road.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: You can't see it from the street. But this is
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: where E. Howard Hunt lived when he was working at
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the Cia. Very interesting, very very interesting. So, Joe, I
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: was thinking, what is Unitarianism? What does the Unitarian Church what?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I don't get, you know, I don't know.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: So I'm not sure either.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I had to go look it up. So apparently what
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: the Unitarians believe is they do not believe in the
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: being equals. Okay. They believe in God and only God,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the unitary nature of God as the singular and unique
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: creator of the universe. They believe that Jesus Christ was
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: inspired by God in his moral teachings and that he
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: is the savior of humankind, but he is not equal
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to God himself. Okay, okay. This religion was created, I believe,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: somewhere around sixteen thirty. I can't remember the guy's name.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I think it was something fox. But yeah, very interesting.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: And it also has roots in Hungaria, the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the Principality of trans Transylvania, and Dracula in the mid
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: sixteenth century. Yeah, so that's what they believe, right, And
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: you always hear that that, you know, Ruth Payne is
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: a Quaker, right. Oh wow, I don't know what the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: hell Quakers believe, so I had to look it up,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: so I'm sorry. George Fox is the principal early leader
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: of the Quakers, okay. So Quakers are people who belong
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: to the religious society Society of Friends Okay, a historically
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Protestant Christian set of denominations. Members refer to each other
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: as Friends after John chapter fifteen, verse fourteen in the Bible,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and originally others referred to them as Quakers. As the
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: founder of the movement, George Fox told a judge to
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: quake before the authority of God, so that the Quakers
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to quake, Yeah, like shake like earth. I thought, Yeah,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with oatmeal whatsoever. The so
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Quakers quake in the presence of God. They fear God.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: The Friends are generally united by the belief in each
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: human's ability to be guided by the inward light to
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: make the witness of God known to everyone. Quakers have
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: traditionally professed a priesthood of all believers, inspired by the
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: First Epistle of Peter, They included those with evangelical holiness,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: liberal and traditional Quaker understandings of Christianity, as well as
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: non theis Quakers, to differing extents, the friends avoid creeds
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: and higher arc rul structures in their religion. And actually,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, there were an estimated three hundred and
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: seventy seven thousand, five hundred and fifty seven adult Quakers
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: on this earth, and actually forty nine percent of Quakers. Joe,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: where in the world do you think that that forty
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: nine percent of the Quakers reside in the world? Pennsylvania
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: and close Africa? Africa close, So half of all the
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Quakers in the world are from Africa, followed by only
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: twenty two percent in the North America. Well, in North America, yeah,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and the rest are just spread out everywhere else. So
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, you know, okay, who are some fake
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: famous Quakers? Joe, Susan B. Anthony is a famous Quaker? Okay.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Dame Judy Dench Old British smoke show, who could have
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: get gotten one about twenty years ago? Uh, let's see
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: you here, Oh, Richard Nixon was a Quaker. Isn't that wild? Really? Nixon? Yeah,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: William Penn of course the founder of Pennsylvania, which makes
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: sense that a lot of Quakers are from Pennsylvania. Yeah,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So that's just that's.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: The second highest percentage after Africa.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Did not know Richard Nixon was a Quaker. Very interesting, interesting, Yes.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Well, Scott, actually we missed it earlier. But Ruth is
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Quaker like Nick, but Sis was Unitarian.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: We're on it, Scott. We are freaking on it, Bud.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And he is too, Thank you, Scott. And yes, Tray.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Some of the most wealthiest counties in the US. We
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: are in d C. Yes, And I'm sure Virginia, right
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: is very the northern part of Virginia. Was that Richmond.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: No, Richmond's like in the southern part.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: What's the northern part d It's.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Called northern Virginia. Okay, but you know you have like Alexandria,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: ringing it, Arlington, Fairfax, great Falls is where a lot
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: of very very wealthy people live, you know, right by
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the Potomac River. Yeah, on the Virginia side. And then okay,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: so you have that on the Virginia side, and then
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: on the Maryland side you have River Road on the
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: other side of the Potomac. That's why it's called the
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: river road. So a lot of these big mansions that
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: are off river road back up to the Potomac River
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: flowing by.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And I used to I used to work down that
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: way and I would frequent River Road and it was
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: just huge mansion house after a huge mansion house after
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: a huge Manson house, you know, and uh yeah, you
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: gotta have money to live there. Yeah, it's definitely not keat.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And we're all paying for it because most is from
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: from from the government and.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, because it's a hop skipping to jumped to
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Langley from there, really if you know, going across the
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: chain bridge and uh yeah, you're right there.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Boom, yes, sir, Well that's very interesting. I did not
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: know the difference.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And now, and before we get too far into things,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Joe sure, I wanted to bring this up from former
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: oksider Trey, who was kind enough to send me some
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: photos and brave enough to venture into, I guess, a
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: very dilapidated neighborhood in Shreveport, Louisiana. For this place, it's
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a gay nineties club where I'm sure Jack Ruby and
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: General Walker frequented. David Ferry. Right, the gay nineties and
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Shreveport here it is. That was it, And it's heyday, Joe,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: hey day, right, this is it? Now? Wow, this is
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: the gay nineties. Now the sign is still there and
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: of course the building still looks the same, but it
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: appears to have a construction fence around it, which means
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: to me that they're going to demolish it soon. Okay,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: that's so you can be remodeling.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: It. I mean, I don't know if it's like downtown
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: enough for it to be. Doesn't look like it there.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: But I just got a really good idea, Rob, what's that.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Let's see if they do demolish, let's see if we
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: get saved and refurbish the sign. You can hang it
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: over your house.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I'll put it right behind me.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's huge. That's like three trades.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Or if they do demolish it, we could get trade
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: to go down there and grab some bricks from the
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: gay nineties that we could sell here for the show.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: And hey, I would just like to have one like this.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Real bricks from the gay nineties.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's only special to us.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: For general Walker splooge doing this one.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Oh man.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: And awfully funny though, Joe. This picture here is of
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Clyde Hyde Junior. Okay, okay, you know funny. We're talking
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: about Sylvia Hyde, Ruth Hyde. This is Clyde Hyde. No
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: relation maybe operator of the Gay nineties club on Louisiana
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Avenue being escorted from the courthouse after failing to post
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: a bond of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of money.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Then that's over. Yeah, I don't know what he did
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: that was so bad. But this was in nineteen seventy.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: So Clyde Hyde is getting escorted out of the courthouse
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy, operator of the gay nineties club on
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Louisiana Avenue. So thank you, Trey, to this plethora of
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: gay information gay nineties information. Yeah, so yeah, we appreciate
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: all the fun boots on the ground photos, So thank you, Trey.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought he was joking last week when he
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: said he was going, but.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Now apparently not.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I respect that.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, actually in his email he said he didn't go,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: but he made his wife go and take pictures.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: So well, wasn't he in the bottom of the picture.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, way to send your wife into the
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: dangerous neighborhood to get pictures. We appreciate the lonm podcast,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: appreciates her hard work. Trey, Yeah, thank you. Yes. So
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: from that, let's get into the pains Joseph.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, let's do it Rob And so when you know,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: every week, as we decided topics here, we were talking
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: after the show last week, we were talking about the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: death of Sylvia Hok and uh, you know, we thought
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: we'd do something on the pains. And I had something
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: that I had heard a lot and read about, but
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I've never really looked into, like many other things, and
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: that is the meetings of that Michael pain allegedly went
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: to with Lee Harvey Oswalt. Thank you, Lee. I think
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: there was a couple other we missed, but.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: So, but I'm on it.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I was always under the impression that they were going
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: together to these extreme right wing meetings, right, Lee and
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Michael Paine, and they had gone to a General Walker,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: a John Birch Society meeting. That General Walker was there.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: That's that's kind of what I read, right, Yeah, yes,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: but allegedly that's not Technically that's not true because the
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: only meeting, and you know, take it for what it's worth,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: it's Michael Payne saying that. But there is some corroboration
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: with some granted a friend from Bell Helicopter, but there
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: is actually no evidence that they went to a right
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: wing John Birch Society meeting together, and the timeline kind
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: of goes like this, and I'm going to get into
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: some of the details. Lee goes to the John Birch
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Society meeting headed by General Walker on October twenty third,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three. The next night, Michael goes to a
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: sparsely attended John Birch Society meeting, And this was sparsely
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: attended because a lot of the Birchers were outside spitting
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: on and I guess hitting with some type of plaquard
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Adlai Stevenson. But Michael admitted this was just one of
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: the few, one of the few right wing meetings he
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: had attended. The only time they that is documented that
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: they had been to a meeting together was October twenty fifth,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, and these happened in three consecutive days
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: where Michael takes Lee to an ACLU meeting. Both Ruth
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: and Michael were active members of the ACLU, and Oswald
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: later that week applies for membership in the ACLU, but
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: the application is in processed by the time of the
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: jfk assassination. So that's kind of interesting because you remember
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: the ACLU came to or Oswalt was exploring the possibility
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: of having them represent him when he was in the DPD.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Of course, he was very kind of.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: They did send a lawyer, right they did.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: He gave them I'll let you know type of thing.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: He was kind of focused on the John Appt right
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: that getting getting yes, So, but I actually I'm getting
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: a little ahead of myself. But I'm just going to
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: read a quick little bio of Michael Payne, for I
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: know most of the people here are very familiar with him,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: but just in case some new people or whatever. Michael
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Payne was born in nineteen twenty eight. He obviously became
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: notable after the JFK assassination, being an acquaintance of Lee
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswalt. His wife Ruth. Payne housed Oswalt's wife, Marina,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: and her kid and two kids for the months prior
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: to the assassination. And you know, it's kind of funny,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Rob you talk about the rich areas of Maryland and Virginia, right, well,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Michael Payne. You really can't get more of an elite
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: than Michael Payne in terms of his background. So, and
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to read a little bit from the twelve
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: who built the Oswalt legend by Bill Simpach. Michael Pain
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: presents a sea of contradictions. Like Oswalt, he combined some
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: left wing and right wing tendencies. He is a descendant
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: of Robert treat Pain, one of the signers of the
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Declaration of Independence. Michael Paine's mother was Ruth Forbes, of
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: the well known Forbes family. She married Lyman Pain in
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: nineteen twenty six, divorced in nineteen thirty four. After that time,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Michael kind of saw his father infrequently. We'll get into
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: his father in a little bit. He always considered himself
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: more of a part of the Forbes family than the
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Pain family, more of his mother's side than his dad's side.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: In other words. He worked for Bell Helicopter as an engineer,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: and he worked with ex Nazi Walter Dornberger, who was
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: the supervisor of Michael Paine's division of classified projects for
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Bell Aerospace. Dornberger was the former head of the Nazi
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Pene Monday Rocket Center and surrendered to the US Army
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: with his but it's p E n n E m
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: U n d E. I can't do I can't do
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: it in a German accent. I'm sure it's what what what?
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: How would you say it.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just busting in Paul's Okay, I
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: can't do it.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: And but he surrendered to the US Army with his
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: compatriot werner Vaughan Braun. And he obviously of the infamous
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Operation paper Clip, right, and uh so that's very interesting
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: he worked under him. Uh. Michael's stepfather, Author Young, invented
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: the original Bell helicopter. Young was proud of the uses
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: of the helicopter and the fighting forest fighters or forest
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: fires and evacuations in Korea, but didn't like its conversion
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: into an attack weapon in Vietnam. After Michael, Yeah, I was.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Getting my balls busted about the picture of the helicopter
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: on the thumb nail. Yeah, I know, it's not a
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Bell helicopter. Calm down, I just I didn't look for
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: a Bell helicopter. I just looked for a helicopter, and
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I went with one that looked like it was from
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: the Vietnam era. So that's not a representative of a
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Bell helicopter, although it may be, according to Trey, a prototype.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, right, Yes, that's okay, that's okay. So Michaels stepfather,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Arthur Young, obviously invented the Bell Helicopter. The company was
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: so successful that the company changed its name from Bell
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Aircraft to Bell Helicopter. So this is Michael Payne's stepfather,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: who ended up remarrying his mother after the parents got divorced.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: His birth father, Lehman Pain, was a well known architect
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: and a lifelong left wing Trotskyist. The FBI considered his father,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Lyman Pain and his wife Freddie to be a national threat,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: placing both of them on the Security Index for the
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: years prior and including nineteen sixty three. Meanwhile, Michael had
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: no problem maintaining his confidential clearance to work at Bell Helicopter,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: whose Bell Security Service also worked with the CIA and
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: FBI on a regular basis. Michael Paine tried to distance
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: himself from his father, being that he was on the
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Security Index and a very controversial figure. But the War
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Commission really kind of nailed down, like when did you
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: last see him? Didn't he come visit you here? So
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: they were looking, they were following his father and they knew.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: So that was very interesting. But so a lot of
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: money descendants, starting from signers of the Declaration of Independence,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: the Forbes family, and then of course his stepfather, the
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: founder of Bell Helicopter or the inventor of the Bell helicopter.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: So one thing, like I told you, I was interested
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: in bring this back up. And what right wing meetings
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: did Lee and Michael go to together? And allegedly they
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: only went to the ACLU meeting together. But so Michael
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Payne had a very long testimony for the Warrant Commission
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: as well as Ruth Right. But I didn't know that
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: they actually interviewed him a second time, rob in Dallas,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Texas on July twenty third, nineteen sixty four. His first one, Yes,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: his first one was in March eighteenth, sixty four, I believe.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: So this is mister Leebler asking him. I'm gonna read
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: a little bit from this. Have you testified before he's
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: reading all the rules, mister Payne, I have testified before.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: You testified previously that when you first met Lee Oswalt
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: in April sixty three that you discussed to some extent
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: General Edwin Walker. Yes, I think we did discuss him
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: in passing, mister Leebler, did Oswalt ever indicate to you
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: in any way that he'd been involved in the attempt
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: on General Walker's life? Michael Payne, not that I I
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: remember at all, nothing whatsoever. I think the only thing
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: he did, the only thing that I could remember now
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: was that he seemed to have a smile in regard
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: to that person. It was inscrutable. I didn't know what
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: he was smiling about. I just thought perhaps it was
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: the guy assumed it was rapport for a person who
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: was an extreme proponent of a certain kind of patriotism
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: or something. Mister Leeler General Walker was, yes, now when
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: he first met Oswald, as I recall, on April second,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three. So mister Paine is not thrilled with
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: being called back here, and he goes, you have been
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: keeping up with all of this. I have been thinking
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: about Oswald for a year.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Well hang on here, Joe, hold on. Yeah, he says
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: that Michael Payne didn't meet Oswald until April second of
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: sixty three. That is wrong.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was February, yeah, yeah, and that was Yeah.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: But this is mister Leebler saying, so you know, mister,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: you should know better, right right for sure. And this
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: is not the first interview. Keep in mind, this is a second,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: so you should have had this like.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, nayl and by that and just as inside Joe
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Tiny Dancer is making lasagna.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: I will have a slice that sounds delicious right about now.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Send it our way. Yes, we will eat it with
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: some silk City like.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll put some hot sauce on that ship. Yes.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Do you do that?
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Or I do it like I put a crush red
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: pepper on. I don't always do hot sauce, but I'm
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: known to.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you can put it in with the meat mix
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: and then add it to lasagna. Yeah, when you layer
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: it up.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: For sure. M So, mister Leebler continues, you didn't see
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Oswalt for that one time after that one time in
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: April until after he had returned from New Orleans. Mister Payne,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I guess that's right, wrong. Yeah, he's kind of just yeah,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I think he's just kind of like get this. You know,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: he's not gonna correct them. He has no motivation to
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: do so, you know what I mean. Yeah, So that
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: would have been October sixty three, that's when he got back,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: mister Payne.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: So. On June eleventh, sixty four, Marina Oswald testified before
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: the Commission, at which time the following colloqui occurred as indicated.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: On what colo qui? So what colon qui? Stop trying
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: to mess me up. Hold on, Joe, we're being corrected here. Okay,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Apparently Ruth only Ruth met Lee in February. Michael didn't
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: meet him until April. Second, pardon us, We thought they
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: were together at the Magnolia party, but I guess we
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: were we stay in corrected, Joseph.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, magus, mister Leebler didn't have it right, and hey,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: that's why we have you guys here right, Yes, he did,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: That's why we we have our very So, mister Leebler
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: is now going to quote missus Oswalt's testimony to the
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Commission and then read it back to mister Pain. So
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: this is mister Mackenzie, who was Marina Oswalt's lawyer at
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: this time in sixty four, Miss Oswald, and definitely an informant.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Miss Oswald, you say, or you said a few minutes ago,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: that mister Payne knew or knows more about your husband's
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: attitude towards the United States than you do. Why do
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: you say that, Marina, Because my husband's favorite topic of
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: discussion was politics and whoever he was with He talked
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: to them, He talked to them politics, and mister Payne
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: was with them a fair amount, and I'm sure they
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: talked about politics. She actually it's transcribed wrong. She said,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure they talked about politics, But mister Leebler
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: corrects it and says, I'm quite sure they talked about politics,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: which is consistent with what we've gone over with Lee's character, Right, Rob, Marina,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: they went to keep in mind the wording here, ladies
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: and gentlemen, they went to meetings of some kind together.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: That's plural. I don't know what kind of meetings, mister McKenzie,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: do you know where the meetings were? Marina? In Dallas?
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: After they came back from some meeting, my husband said
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: to me something about Walk being at this meeting. So
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Marine is saying Lee and Michael spent a good fair amount.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: I think that was the words she used, the fair
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: amount of time together. And if you were spending time
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: with Lee, you were talking about some aspect of politics.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: So then mister Leebler goes back to grilling Michael Payne.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Do you remember at any time going with Lee Oswalt
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: at a meeting at which mister Walker was present. No,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: The only meeting I went to was the ACLU meeting
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: that I recall. Mister Leebler, do you recall going to
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: any meetings yourself in October sixty three with or without Oswalt,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: at which General Walker was present, mister Payne, General Walker
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: was present at the Oswalt mentioned the un US Day
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: meeting held by the Rightists, which occurred a day or
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: two night before the ACLU meeting. He had been to
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: that meeting by himself. I had gone to the same
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: evening to a John Birch meeting. We were not together,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: but they were two things that occurred simultaneously, and that's
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: where Lee, by his report at the ACLU meeting said
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: he was and Walker was there. Maybe that's what Marina
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: had in mind, mister Leebler, But you yourself don't have
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: any recollection of ever being at a meeting when Walker
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: was there. No, I've never seen General Walker that I
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: can recall, and mister Leebler is like he's coming down
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: on him. He goes, you have never seen Walker. It
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: seems like he kind of knows something right because he's
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: really nailing down this point, mister Payne, unless he was
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: in a year previous to that, I had been to
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: an indignation committee meeting. No, that is the answer to
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: your previous question. Mister Leebler again asking again, do you
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: best of your recollection? Recollection, you don't ever remember seeing
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: General Walker president, that's right, or having been at a
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: meeting at which you subsequently learned that he was present
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: although you didn't see him, that's right. I can't remember
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: about the previous year. But I don't think that has relevancy.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: So he's not denying it. He's saying, I don't know.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think I don't see well.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I think I think they had him dead to rights
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: because I think that he signed up for something at
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the meeting that they got a hold of, like a
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: mailing list or something. Oswald no pain. Oh at the
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: That's why I think he was drilling down on him
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, because he knew something. Yeah.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: No, it seems like mister Leebler knows something and is
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: really hammering down to that point. He asks it three
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: or four times in different different ways. So really kind
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: of interesting, you know. And this again, this is his
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: second testimony, right, so this is them following up on
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: his first and what they found out in between and
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: from Marina in June right from her lawyer.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I love Jason.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, hello, So well, since the time you met Oswalt,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: you were at no meetings at with General Walker was
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: present to your knowledge, mister Payne, that's true, mister Leebler.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Marina Oswalk goes on to testify, and I will recapsulate
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: part of it. This is Marina's quote here. After they
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: came back from some meeting, my husband said to me
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: something about Walker being at this meeting, and he said,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Payne knows that I shot him. That's interesting that Marina
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: is saying this. Do you have any reason to believe that?
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: The first question, of course, is and I've heard he
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: asked you that, and you've testified you did not know
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Oswalt shot Walker prior to the assassination. Is that correct?
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Michael Payne, that's right? Now. Do you have any reason
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: to believe that Oswalt might have thought that you knew
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: that he Oswalt had shot at General Walker? Michael Payne.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: I can't see how he would have thought I knew that.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I just don't see. He might have said something that
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: revealed that and I didn't catch his meaning, so it
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: never sunk into me at all. That is to assume
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't lying, and that was the only way
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: I can explain it. Almost done here, So, mister leeber So,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: you think the testimony that Marina has given is either
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: the result of misapprehension or a lie on Oswalt's part
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: or on Marina's part. Mister Payne, Yes, and you don't
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: have any doubt about that whatsoever, again, hammering down on him.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: He must have been so frustrated at this point, Michael Payne.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I am perfectly certain that I didn't know that he
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: shot at Walker. Marina herself goes on to say, I
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: do not know whether this was the truth or not,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: but this is what they told me, and I presume
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: she meant that's what Lee had told her. And we're
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: gonna get into some favorite characters of ours here, Rob
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Michael Payne. Now, wait, it would be well to check
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: for that day. This is the testimony in June, you said,
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: and that they could possibly be Martin and Thorn. I
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: don't know much about Martin and Thorn either, but I
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: had the impression they were telling her stories. Well, let's
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: do a little time out here, because he goes, now, wait,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: this is testimony in June. Now, because Rob and I
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: are pretty much experts on John Martin Thorn and James Martin,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: we know that they were relieved of their services in
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: mid November February, I'm sorry, mid February. So Mackenzie is
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: the new lawyer. James Martin is way out of the picture.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: So he's blaming them for an interview that happened four
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: months after they were Yeah, you know, which I think.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: They're basically saying that they were filling her head full
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: of all this shit when when they had.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Her, and I think they did for sure. Yeah, but
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't in June because they weren't with her in June. No,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: so interesting. So one other thing I found, and this
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: doesn't really have to do with our current topic, but
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: later in this testimony, mister Leebler asked him he shows
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: him a photograph which depicts the same individual as in
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Commission Exhibit number two thirty seven, and ask you to
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: examine it and tell me if you recognize the individual.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: So mister Leebler is asking Michael Payne about the Mexico
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: City mystery man that I have pictured on the left
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: here Commissioned Exhibit two thirty seven. Mister Payne, I remember
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: the same face on the picture that I saw earlier,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: but I had not at that time, and do not
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: now recognize the person. You think that would be the
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: end of the answer, But no, he says, but he
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: could work at Bell Helicopter.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Now that really not Taco Bill, Bell Helicopter.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Not Taco. And what I wrote down here is why
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: is Leebler asking Michael Paine about C two thirty seven?
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Maybe they asked everyone about it.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And more curiously, when Michael already has a great answer,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: why did he throw in at the end but he
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: could work at Bell Helicopter Iris, I have no idea.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: So it looks like a Nazi bastard's gumbag.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that is very interesting. And before I we'll
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: check some comments before I get into my next little
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: mini segment, and then I'll go my head off to you, Rob.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm getting hungry reading all these comments with
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: lasagna and orzo chicken, Henry Hill's gravy. Hopefully it doesn't
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: contain brain matter.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, forty seven people in the chat now, Rob, thank
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: you to everyone that is joining us.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: What is up everybody? Thanks for tuning in. If you
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: haven't yet, please subscribe to the show. If you're digging
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: what you're hearing.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got Friday night, because you can't unless you're subscribed.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Keep that in mind, like subscribe and hit the building
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: and notified every time we go live, people.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: And tell us that you're new and you just subscribed,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: and we'll move your shout out here.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're very nice. We won't bite promise.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: For the most part. So essentially my summary of that
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: is that there is no documented case of Michael Paine
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: going to right wing John Birt's society meetings with Lee
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald. I'm not saying they didn't go to one together.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: I'm saying the only and Marina, as we just saw,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: mentioned they were going to meetings, and Lisa that they
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: saw Walker there. You know, I'm not trusting Michael's account
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: on this per se, But.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: No, he sounds like he didn't want to give them
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: anything right about what he was doing with Oswald, because
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the thing, Joe. With all these
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: folks that were, you know, somewhat in Oswald's circle prior
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: to the assassination, none of them want to cop to
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: the fact that they were friends with this guy. Yeah,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: because then they be guilty by association. You have to remember,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: you know, this is you know, the height of the
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Cold War, you know, and everybody was worried about being
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: blacklisted as a communist, and and you know, with some
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: of Pains relatives, which we'll get into here in a second, views,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: you know, it is better than to just keep his
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: mouth shut. And uh, you know, deny, deny, and deny.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: For sure, and Rob. Before I move on, I want
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: to touch on the interesting thought that So of course
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: we know about the Lee's attempt on Walker, right, That's
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: what and I said, attempting in air quotations for the
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: people listening on audio only, it would be very interesting.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna assume, just for argument's sake, that he
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: did shoot at Walker, right, Okay, in April.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: We didn't They have dinner with the Pains on April tenth.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: So it was early April. I think it was a
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: I think it was a tenth.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: And that's the same night he exposedly shot at Walker.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: So you're telling me this guy has his has his
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: you know, nice dinner with the Pains, and I'm sure
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: they're talking and about all this stuff, and you know
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: somewhere I'm not sure if.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: That was the same night as as I don't know.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm pulling that out of the comments section
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: from people who know more than we do.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: Oh but of course the you know, the the Demorent
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Shields hadn't left yet, and there's that.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: Whole Sally is confirming Michael Payne said he had dinner
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: that night with the Oswalds.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: So, which is really interesting as well, right.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Because considering there was two people seen fleeing the scene
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: of the General Walker shooting.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so say he did shoot at Walker, right.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Michael Payne got him all cooked up and they
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: were all, you know, hey, let's go shoot that mother effort,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: So say that happened. Then in October, about six months later,
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: he's then going to a John Birch Society meeting with
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: General Walker there. That's an interesting dynamic if you think
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: he had tried to shoot at him six months earlier.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Holy crap, Joe, I don't even know my own show, folks.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: Clyde Hyde was mentioned in the Lone Gunman number one
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: sixty nine. Seems like he was running gun uh wow,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Trey with the recall I have no clue. Again, that
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: was a long time ago.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: It's all blurry.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Information out in and out.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great catch there, Trey. But that would
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: be interesting if he had shot at him and then
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: went to a meeting with him a month before he
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: shot the president.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: That's right, Tiny tell him slam that like button, folks,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: thumbs up is what it looks like like this, Yes,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: appreciate it.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it helps the ALGO and the ALGO doesn't
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: really like us to start.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: That is great. We are shadow band and yeah whatever.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it happens. So, so, as I was looking into this,
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: and as I was kind of trying to figure out
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: exactly what meetings they went to together, at least from documented,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: you know, you have Lee going to the John Birch
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: Society meeting on October twenty third, headed by General Walker.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: The next day you have Michael going to a different
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: John Birch Society meeting where some of the Birchers were
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: attacking Adlai Stevenson. And the day after that you have
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Michael taking Lee to an ACLU meeting, Lee later applying
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: for that. So I was looking into this ACLU meeting,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: and of course, as we like to do, Rob. We
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: try to go back to the most the earliest documents
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: we could find. This is an FBI interview with Michael
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Paine eleven twenty five sixty three. Payne stated, on one
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: occasion he took Lee Oswalt to a meeting at the
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: ACLU at Southern Methodist University. Now, I'm gonna give you
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: guys a little hint. Southern Methodist University is my new Shrieveport.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: That's all I'm gonna say. That's all i'm gonna say.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: During this meeting, some mention was made about the John
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Birch Society. This is the ACLU meeting. Comments are made
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: about the alleged anti semitism and the John Birch Societies.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: Someone else made a comment that even though some members
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: of the John Birch Society might be anti Semitic, it
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: should not be attributed to the ACLU. Thereupon Oswalt spoke
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: out and gave what appeared to be a logical and
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: appropriate instances of anti Semitism by the John Birch Societies.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: So here you have Michael Payne saying that Oswalt spoke
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: out at the CCLU meeting about the anti semitism by
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: the John Bird Society, and after the meeting, we're gonna
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: get into this fellow.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Here, hang on before we get into Frank christin To Yeah, sure,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Mike McDougall, Big Mike Alpha sixty six wins comment of
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: the night here it is now y'all won't bite, but
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: y'all will have a fat guy run all over Darly
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Plaza portraying characters in Hot August. But no, y'all don't bite.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Hellh we love you, Mike.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Was that our idea? Or was that helping Alexis.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: And perpetual concepts coming through from the shadow sun. We appreciate. Yeah,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: he's sent you a presciado.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: He commented earlier. He felt my pain by having my
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: pain U pun intended uh of having to miss golf
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: outing from three hundred three five hundred miles away. He
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: felt my pain. So thank you professional concepts.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's not easy.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: To give up a tea time.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: They're expensive, sir, Sorry, Back to Chris Frankie Christinnick.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, so this is a guy who worked with mister
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Michael Payne at Bell Helicopter, Arlington, Texas and got into
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: a discussion on free enterprise with Lee Oswald. Now it
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: wasn't a discussion. It was like an argument that almost
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: turned into a fight. Paine said he paid very little
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: attention to this argument that involved both people he took
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: to the meeting, which was his friend Frank and Lee.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: So they both got in a fight, and he wasn't
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: paying attention, of course, being sarcastic here, that's ridiculous. Paine
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: stated that on the night before Adlie Stevenson appeared in Dallas,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: Lee Oswald attended a right wing rally held at the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Civic Auditorium in Dallas, and that he presumed that the
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: John Birch Society was one of the sponsors of the meeting,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: and Oswald had gotten information about the John Birch Society
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: during this meeting. So interesting that he's reporting this. How
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: do you know about it? To tell you when you
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: got back or did you actually go with him, mister
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: Michael Paine, so really quickly. Frank Christinick, he was with
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: Michael Payne on the morning and lunch of the assassination
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: and he and Michael Payne and Frank were talking about
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: the character ironically of assassins at that unch of all things,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: with another co Op student named Dave Noel. But when
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: it was mentioned the TSBD was possibly the source of
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: the shots. Michael Payne told Frank Chrisinic that's where Lee
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Oswalt worked, and Frank suggested that Michael Payne call the
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: FBI and tell them. Now, Michael Payne did not call
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: the FBI and tell them, sus Yes, So mister Frank
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Christinic was actually interviewed by the Warrant Commission pretty much
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: about that. And they're talking about the civil the a
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: c LU meeting after the film, mister Chrisinic says, there
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: was a discussion about civil liberties and about the film
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: in general, and about movement of the South, and some
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: talk concerning General Walker. The first thing I made noticed
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: as Oswalt, he stood up and made a remark about
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: General Walker in reference to him not only being anti Catholic,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: but anti Semitic in regard to his comments about the Pope.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: Oswalt said to the assemble group at the time that
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: he had been to a meeting two days prior at
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: which General Walker was present, So that's his first during
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Mister Leebler again, during the time after the ACLU, did
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Oswalt say anything about his discussion with mister Chrisinic. Mister
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: Payne I don't believe. So did mister Krisinic say anything?
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Did you discuss it with him? Yes, you did. He
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: told me that they had argued, but that he had
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: pointed out that he had employed a few people himself.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: You mentioned that Oswalt and Christinic almost got to a fight.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: And one other thing I was looking at as I
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: was looking into this guy. On November twelfth, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: this is the Mary Ferrell chronologies. That was the date
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Oswalt's letter to the Russian Embassy, telling of his Mexican
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: Mexico trip, the new baby's birth, and inquiring about their visas.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Marina denies that she mailed this letter, but mister Michael
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Payne shows a copy of Oswalt's letter to the Russian
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Embassy to Michael Paine. So Ruth is showing it to Michael.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Then Colonel J. D.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Willhelm pay attention, folks, this is very important here. This
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: is very very suspect. So go ahead, Joe.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Does it tie in with yours?
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: No? But on November the twelfth, ten days before the assassination,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: a Colonel.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: J. D.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Willmith, who is a Russian language instructor at Arlington State College,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: is told of Marina by Frank Christinick, a Bill Helicopter
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: employee and friend of Michael Payne. This Colonel Willmith, who
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: lives with his mother, calls Marina at Irving from Arlington
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: and he goes to visit them two days before the
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: assassination in person at Ruth Payne's house, which is interesting.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: Colonel Yeah.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: And if you look at this rob it says after
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: the highlighted of Frank Christinek redacted Bell helicopter employee. And
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I was trying to put together in my mind what
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: could that word be.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: It's not former.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: I was trying to put together a ton of words
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: if anyone in the chat has an idea of what
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: that could.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Be, trying to see it under the redaction. But it's hard.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: It's six letters.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's not long.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Humh A Nazi bellion. I don't know a O. Well,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: you never know.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: But you know one thing I was, I don't know
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: if we have a picture of Frank Christinik, But you
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: remember how I brought up that he said he could
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: be a Bell employee of the CE What was it
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: two thirty seven? And I just had the thought, what
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: if that was Frank Christinek. I'm not saying it is,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: but I had that like random thought, because this guy
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: seems to be more involved than just a co worker
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: of Michael Payne. He's talking with Marina, he's talking to
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: this colonel. He's there with Michael Payne the morning of
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: the assassination, working with him, which indicates to me that
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: they were very close. They weren't just colleagues, they were
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: almost like BFFs. They had dinner together once or twice
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: a week. I was reading, and this was when they
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: were separated, Ruth and Michael conveniently separated. So what's going
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: on with this guy? I had never heard of the
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: name before this week. I think I have one more
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: slide with him. Oh that's it so very interesting. But
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: I think that Michael Payne definitely went to more meetings
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: than that ACLU meeting with Lee. Marina was said they
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: and meetings, right, It wasn't just a transcription with meeting
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: to meetings. It was it seemed like it was plural,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: and it seemed like Michael obviously was trying to, like
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier, play it down and his friend from
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Bell Helicopter who got in an argument with Oswalt, who's
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: getting involved with Marina. He actually met Marina at some point.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what's going on here, but I was
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: unaware of this character and little sus there Bell helicopter.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think there's something too, but that him
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: and Michael Payne would try to recruit, uh, these young
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: college kids. It's Southern Methodists, ah, who were pro pro
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Communists or pro Castro and you know, to kind of
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: out them. Uh, you know the same thing like Guy
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Banister was doing down in New Orleans, which is interesting.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, and I think I was reading that
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: they were arguing on the pro Cuba side of it,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: which is very interesting.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: But I see that redacted thing again. If you could
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: pop that back up.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Sure, I just want to, Uh, I want to read
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: one more little small paragraph before.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: So it's it's can you make that bigger like you
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: just did? Maybe, yeah, make that bigger?
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: Damn What could that mean.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: For met secret current? I don't think it would be
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: former because the F would be bigger at the beginning.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, covert could be yeah secret? Oh that you think
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: the T would be legible? It's very well.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: I said six letters now as senders or descenders.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I thought it was six letters as well,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: but just something that stuck out to me. You know,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: it seems like this guy was more than just a colleague.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I mean, I just found him a
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: couple of days ago, and there's not many. I think
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: there's only seven reports on him, and when you search
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: him on Mary Ferrell, and most of them are Michael
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Pain's references. But one more thing, and from Frank Christink,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: who told the Warrant Commission about how Michael Pain reacted
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: when he heard the news that JB. Tippett had been killed.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: We heard, this is Chrisinic. We heard that Officer Tippet
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: had been shot and that it was It wasn't very
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: long after that it came through that the Oswalt fellow
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: had been captured, had a pistol with him, and Michael
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: used some expression I have forgotten exactly what the expression was,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: and then he said, in quotations, the stupid probably some
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: of a bitch or something something I have forgotten. It
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: wasn't a complimentary thing. He said, he isn't even supposed
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: to have a gun, and that I can quote. So
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: it was pretty emphactic about that. He is not He
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: repeats it, he is not even supposed to have a gun. Wow.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: So Michael Payne knew a little more just based on
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: that reaction or knew that Oswald.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: I have no idea what's going on with that, but
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: it's very interesting. Thank you Paula Jane very much. I
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: love you. You're muted.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: I said, yeah, exactly, Sally, we unfortune. I will buy
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: I'll take an e pet. I would like to buy
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: a vow mhm mhm. So stuff, Joe, Thank you buddy
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: for that. So I came across uh some FBI documents
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: about the background of Ruth hide Pain and her relatives.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: This is an FBI report, and it states Dusley. The
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: February fourteenth, nineteen forty eight people issue of the Ohio
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: State News, a newspaper poached by the students of Ohio
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: State University, contained an article which was captioned quote Ohio
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: college students initiate Educational Democracy drive end quote. This article
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: states that more than one hundred students from colleges and
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: universities throughout Ohio have initiated a drive for democracy and education.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: The article indicated that Ohio Council for Educational Democracy was
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: formed in Columbus over the past weekend. To obtain this goal,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: their organization would work to do away with racial and
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: religious discrimination in Ohio colleges. Carl Hyde of Antioch College
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: was elected as vice chairman of the organization. Carl Hyde,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: Antioch College Confidence Performant T I another US government agency
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: which conducts intelligence investigations. I wonder who that could be?
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: This is the FBI.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: Right saying yeah, advised on December seventeenth, nineteen and fifty
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: two that Missus william A. Hyde of Summit Street and Columbus, Ohio,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: had admitted to many neighbors during the past years that
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: she was a communist. Missus Hyde's daughter was a student
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: at Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio. The same informant
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: that Ruth Avery Hyde, otherwise known as Ruth Hyde Pain
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: of Summit Street and Columbus, was listed in the nineteen
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: fifty one to fifty two Antioch Student Directory of Antioch College,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Yellow Springs, Ohio. Another informant Confidential Informant T two advised
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: on December twenty seventh, nineteen fifty four that the Women's
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: International League for Peace and Freedom met on December twentieth
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: of fifty four at seventy East Como Street in Columbus, Ohio.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Missus Carl Hyde was the speaker of the evening and
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: showed a film entitled The Toymaker Totally not about Dildo's.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: The theme of the film was that although men are different,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: they are all made by one creator and only this
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: realization makes the conscious makes them conscious of the fact
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: that when they destroy others, they are also destroying themselves. Weird.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: A characterization of the Women's International League for Peace and
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Freedom is contained in the appendix of the report. Mister
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Lauren Wyndham, Assistant United States Attorney Southern District of Ohio,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: excuse me, Clumbus, Ohio sent a letter to the Cincinnati
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: office of the FBI dated June fourth, nineteen fifty three,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: requesting an investigation of Carl Dudley Hyde to determine the
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: validity of his claim of conscientious objector in connection with
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: his classification under the selective Service system, which means that
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: he did not pick a branch of the Armed Services
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: to serve in pending another draft.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: Is her father.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: No well? Possibly possibly? This investigation revealed that his parents.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Carl Hyde's parents were William Avery Hide and Carol Elizabeth Hyde,
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: and then he resided at Summit Street, Columbus, Ohio from
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: forty five to forty eight. He joined the religious Society
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: of Friends otherwise known as the Quakers, in Cleveland, Ohio,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: in nineteen forty nine, and based his objections to military
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: service on religious convictions and beliefs. He traveled to England
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty three to study the possibility of living
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: in a religious community called the Society of Brothers, otherwise
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: known as a sausage Party. The February twelve, forty seven
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: issue of the Daytona Daily News, a daily newspaper published
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: in Dayton, Ohio, contained an article which indicated that Carl
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: Dudley Hyde was one of fifteen residents of Yellow Springs, Ohio,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: who sent their draft registration cars to Representative Joseph Martin.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: There's another one, Well, could that be the Joseph James Martin,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: the guy we found the first one in the late fifties.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: This guy's a representative from Ohio to the House. I representative.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, Actually he was the Speaker of the house
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: hold on he sent their draft registration cars to Representative
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Joseph Martin, Speaker of the House in nineteen forty seven.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: Apparently Joe a company with a letter that read, in part,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: we see any military programs involving peacetime conscription as a
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: drastic violation of civil rights and a threat to the
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: peacemaking efforts of the United Nations. Most of the senders
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: were also students of Antioch College.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: Wait so, Rob, Yeah, in nineteen forty seven, you're telling
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: me there was a Joseph Martin that was a speaker
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: that was at the House of Ohio.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Oh he was the Speaker of the House. A representative
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: from Ohio was James Martin. Joseph Martin, but he was
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: also Speaker of the House.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: Do you find that his mind blowing as I do,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: considering what you know about my.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: House with that number?
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, welcome was broken? Yeah, thank you.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Doctor Hyde said that all of the family, including himself,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: were tolerant of others quote point of view, and explained
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: by this, he meant that he that should a person
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: make it known that he is a communist and not
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: engaged in subversive subversion, they would not feel duty bound
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: to have advise repetitive authorities respective authorities of this person's views,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: which means basically, he's not going to snitch on a
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: Communists right during peace time. Okay. The following investigation was
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: conducted by a special agent, Robert Mahler and Francis Short
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: at Columbus, Ohio. Efforts to locate Missus Carroll Hyde, mother
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: of Missus Ruth Payne, were made December second, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: at forty four hundred glenn Meyer Avenue. It was observed
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: that this residence was currently empty.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: About ten days after the assassination. Yeah, missus John, they're
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: trying to find her mother.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, wow Missus. Joan Barker, a neighbor, advised on
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: December second, sixty that she was closely associated with Missus
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: Carroll Hyde more than any other neighbor. Carol Hyde, she said,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: had not lived next door since nineteen sixty one. She
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: presently attends Oberlin Theological Seminary in Oberlin, Ohio, and lives there.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: During the summer of sixty three, she said. Carol Hyde
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: was ordained a minister in the First Unitarian Church ninety
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: three West Weisenheimer Road in Columbus, Ohio. So here we
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: have Sylvia Hyde. Hoak's mother was a minister in the
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: Unitarian Church and his father was a Quaker. Yeah. So
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: missus Barker said residents have been rented to a Gene Jolliffe,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: who has recently moved away to Racine Avenue in Columbus, Ohio.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: The residence is now sitting empty, although still owned apparently
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: by Carol Hyde at this time. Missus Barker said Carol
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: Hyde was divorced from her husband William at Franklin County
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty one. During an unknown period in nineteen
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: sixty her ex husband had Missus Hyde committed to the
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Harding Sanitarium in Worthington, Ohio as a mental patient. Okay,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: so in nineteen sixty one, when she divorced her husband,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: he had her committed to a mental institution and she had.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: She never went back to live in the family home,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: and I guess neither did he, although they apparently still
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: owned it and were renting it out. I guess from
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: the sanitaria she moved into a seminary and became a
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: Unitarian preacher, if that makes any sense at all. Carol
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: Hyde is not expected to return to Columbus in the
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: near future. Her last visits to Columbus was during September
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: sixty three, at which time her daughter Ruth Payne stayed
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: overnight in Columbus, then went to visit her brother Carl
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: in Yellow Springs, Ohio. So Carl is Ruth Payne's brother
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: and Sylvia's brother. Missus Barker said she had never heard
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: Missus Payne or Missus Hyde sorry mentioned the name Oswald
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: until the two spoke on a long distance telephone call
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: on November twenty nineth, nineteen sixty three, concerning this property
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: next door, at which time Missus Hyde mentioned that a
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: Missus Oswald had been living with her daughter Ruth in Irving, Texas.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: During this conversation, Carol Hyde also told Missus Barker, after
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: she graduates from the Theological Seminary, her ambition is to become
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: a chaplain. They in a mental institution. So apparently she
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: liked it so much there at the mental the medalists,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: you want to go back as a minister.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: And Rob Paula said, Quakers and Unitarians are very compatible.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: That's not weird at all. So it's maybe like a
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: like a Catholic and another Christian. Yeah, yeah, exactly type
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: of thing. Yeah, I just not a good analogy, but
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Back to William Avery Hyde, which is me I believe
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: Ruth's father an apartment one O five on Park Street, Columbus, Ohio,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: born June fourth, nineteen or two in pale Alto, California,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: employed as a actuary whatever that is for the Nationwide
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: Insurance Company of North High Street. Was interviewed on December second,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. He said he is the father of
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: Ruth Payne born Hyde, who is married to Michael Payne
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: of Irving, Texas. He is also the father of Missus
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: Sylvia Hoake of Juanetta Road, Bethes, the Maryland, and the
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: father of doctor Carl Hyde of President Street in Yellow Springs, Ohio.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: I guess he stayed near Antioch College. He said he
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: is divorced from Carol Elizabeth Hyde. Yes, he explained. He
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: explained he and his ex wife are six sixth cousins
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: with the same surname. Okay, so get this ship, people,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: Carl or William Hyde, Mary's his sixth cousin, Carol Hyde.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: That was her name before they got married. Her name
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: was also a hide insert cruel inbred joke here.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: Sixth cousin. Yeah, I didn't even know there was such
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: a thing. And how rare is it to have the
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: same you know, like my second cousins for example, don't
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: most of them don't have my same last name. So
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: you're talking six.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Interesting Okay, yeah, you know it must have been you
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: know at the family reunion where they they locked eyes.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: You know, he just said, hey, you know, what'screw it?
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: You know we might be related, but hey, I'm down.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: Hey, if I had just a dope sex cousin, I
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: can't say that.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: I would you know, you roll the dice at that point, Yeah,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: that would that wanted.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: To deter me. I don't think at that point. I
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: think I I my like limit is like third, I'd
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: go fourth and over. You know.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: There you go. That's that's a good rule to live by. Joe.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Uh where were we here? During their visit over Labor
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: Day weekend, William Hyde understood that Marina Oswald and her
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: daughter at join Lee Harvey Oswald at New Orleans, Louisiana,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: where the latter went to seek employment. During this visit,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: Ruth Payne express concern about Marina, who was pregnant at
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: the time. She wanted Marina to join her at Irving
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: so Marina could have the child there. Ruth Payne returned
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: to Texas via New Orleans, where she picked up Marina
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: and her daughter, and William Hyde believed that Lee Harvey
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: Oswald remained in New Orleans at that time, since he
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: did not return to Texas with Ruth and Marina in June.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: And then we have William Hyde could not explain why
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: his daughter and Marina were so closely attached, except that
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: his daughter was interested in women, I mean, I'm sorry,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: in studying the Russian language, and though her membership in
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: this society of friends, she felt learning the Russian language
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: would assist in lessening the tensions between the United States
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: and Russia. So wait a minute, she thought that learning
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: the Russian language would help to lessen the tensions between
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: America and Russia.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Trey has a great quote here. If you
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: think a family reunion is a good place to find
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: a date, you might be a hide.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: Yep. So Clyde Hyde is not out of the realm
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: of possibility of being related to these folks. We have
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: our Shreveport connection back there, he added. Marina Oswald was
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: apparently very interested interesting to his daughter and could offer
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: her substantial comfort, or his daughter would not have had
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: anything to do with her. He said, he knew of
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: no subversive connections that Marina Oswald may have had. William
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: Hyde continued and said that Ruth and Marina and Marina's
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: daughter lived together away from their respective husbands since September
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: of sixty three, until recently, when Marina Oswald was placed
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: in protective custody by the US Secret Service. A daughter,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah Rachel Oswald, was born to Marina in October of
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three. William Hyde said he received a letter
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: from his daughter Ruth, written on October nineteenth, in which
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: she mentioned that Marina and her daughter were a comfort
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: to her. She also mentioned that Lee Harvey Oswald was
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: a weekend visitor and that he had taken a room
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: in Dallas separate from the wife and had obtained employment
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: in Dallas, Texas. The time of Oswald's arrival at Dallas
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: was not mentioned, nor was the type of employment described.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: In a sentence, Ruth Pain said, Lee Harvey Oswald had
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: proven himself to be a fine family man. After all,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: this is Ruth Payne saying this, folks, it's quite.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: Quite a different description than Yeah.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: In a litter to her father, she says that Lee
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: Harvey Oswald had proven himself to be a fine family man.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: After all, that's a giant contradiction from huge construct what
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: was said later William Hide did not know the significance
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: of this sentence and no shit, FBI, thank you. He
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: received another letter from Ruth dated November sixth, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: which announced the birth of Marina's child, Rachel. William Hyde
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: said during his visit with his daughter during the Labor
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: Day weekend, the information concerning Marina was not really significant
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: to him.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: So you're talking end of September Earth, beginning of September
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: sixty three, Labor Day Weekendish.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. He explained he had never met another Marina. Wait,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: he explained that he had never met either Marina or
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: Lee Aarvey Oswald and knew nothing more concerning what he
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: had related to us. So that is the FBI's investigation
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: into Ruth Payne's mother and father and family. What do
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: you think about that, Joe, some kissing cousins.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: Mhm, it's uh, this is very interesting. I didn't know about.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: A lot about that family.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't know the father had had visited Dallas right
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: Labor Day weekend, so.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: Or I don't think because Marina didn't go stay with
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: Ruth until the end of September, so at that time
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: Marina wasn't living with Ruth, so he did not meet
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: Marina or daughters or Ley Oswald at the time. I see, Yes.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: We have a message from a j GP ideal. There
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: is a letter from Ruth to Marina.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: Where that's the CIA itself.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: Where Marina or miss Payne offers Marina a weekly allowance
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: to live with her. I'm not.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: I'll give you a week and a tongue lashing.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If you have that letter the Lone Government podcast
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: at gmail dot com, send it please, We'll definitely read it.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: But interesting, I didn't know about that.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, and let's see. This is from an article from
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six pro magazine and in here it states.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: In her New Orleans grand jury testimony, Ruth admitted that
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: her brother in law, John Hope, was employed by the
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: Communications Resource Division of AID, and subsequent to the assassination,
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: so was her father. There's plentiful evidence that the Agency
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: for International Development was used. That's AID Agency for International
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: Development was used as a CIA front and conduit to
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: finance co operations. Former Ohio Governor John Gilligan, no relation
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: to the Island who headed AID during the Carter years,
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: said at one time that AID field offices were infiltrated
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: from top to bottom with CIA people. The idea was
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: to plant operatives in every kind of activity we had overseas, government, volunteer, religious,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: every kind end quote. Ruth's sister, Sylvia Hyde Hoak worked
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: for quote a government agency, but which one Ruth just
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: could not recall. FBI background reports on Ruth's family indicate
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: her sister worked for the Air Force, but there is
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: another document which claims she was a CIA employee. Could
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: it be that William avery Hide, Ruth's father, the businessman,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: had them recruited early in his career by the CIA
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: call William avery Hyde was in the OSS. So let
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: me back up a second here and get this straight.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: So we have William avery Hide, Ruth and Sylvia's father
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: was in the OSS. Check your list, tiny, we need.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 5: We need yeah, And that while doing insurance business abroad,
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 5: he also did intelligence work, which shocker makes sense.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: No, And Rob h So, an actuary is kind of
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: like a financial person for insurance companies that does a
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: lot of statistical type of work.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: And I remember you.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: Mentioned that Sylvia Hope had done the same type of
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: whatever statistics and one of those agencies when you first read,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: so that actually makes a lot of sense. So continue.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: So the speculation is, did he eventually use his influence
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: to get his daughter, Sylvia and son in law employment
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: in the intelligence community, because if you remember, Sylvia's husband
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: was also employed by the CIA.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: They like to keep it in the family. We know that.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, episode was an intelligence family with Ruth acting as
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: an informal asset.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: One degree of separation.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: Right, It's all very interesting with these connections that can
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: be made. And also you have I believe it wasn't
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: Alan Dulles connected to the the Pain family as well
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: or Michael.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: It was it was Bancroft.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: What was their name? Uh, yeah, But they vacationed at
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: the same place or somewhere that the the Pains or
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: the Hides or somebody.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: I believe it was Cape Cod it was it was
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: a it was an island off of Cape Cod, I believe, yes.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: And I actually have that that that document on the
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: Pain family from Alan Dulles. I believe it was December
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: second where they have extraordinary detail into the Pain family,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: and that is believed to be from Mary Bancroft, who
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: knew Ruth and Lehman.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: Pain Yeah Lymanman and this from the article Michael and
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: Lee appeas in a pod. So During the month of
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: March in nineteen sixty three, Michael Paine and Lee Harvey
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: Oswald would each make changes in their residences. On March third,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: the Oswald family moved from their Elsbeth apartment to the
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: nearby Neely Street apartment. On March twenty seventh, Michael Payne
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: moved from his Silver Bells apartment to the nearby Villa
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: Fontaine apartments on Dalworth Avenue in Grand Prairie, Texas. Both
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: men had first separated from their wives in September of
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: sixty two. Although the Oswalds would soon thereafter reconcile, the
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: Pains would not reconcile until the day after Kennedy's murder.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: In the interim, Oswald allegedly ordered his two weapons from
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: two separate male order houses. Marina would test at the
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: end of March sixty three that she took one, maybe
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: two of the famous and controversial backyard photograph depicting Oswald
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: and Black holding both his weapons and current issues of
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: The Socialist and the Worker or the Socialist Communist newspapers.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: The militant and the worker. The Oswalds may as well
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: have been separated, considering how little time Lee actually spent
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: it home. Oswald was supposed to be taking a nighttime
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: typing class that springs semester at the local Vactec school,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: beginning in January of sixty three, but he was dropped
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: from this course on April eighth after too many absences.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: Marina had no idea where he was spending his evenings
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: during these months. In fact, while still at the Elsbeth apartment,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: she would express her concern as to his whereabouts to
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: her Landlady and during calls to various friends in the
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: white Russian community in an effort to track him down.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: Michael Payne spent his time at unit singles, dances and
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: madrigal events in the company of Evert Glover and Glover's roommates.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: These were White Russians. Skating was ice. Skating was also
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: a favorite pastime in this particular crowd, according to Everitt Glover,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: who happened to be a skating partner of the des
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: Morn Shields. Michael Payne likewise enjoyed skating. According to Ruth
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: and a most curious entry in one of Oswald's notebook
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: is listed a pair of skates among various household items
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: which were sold off. This list is in English and
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: the amounts listed are in keeping with dollars. Thus it
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: was fair to assume that this list was made while
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: in the United States. Is it possible that Oswald went
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: skating with the pain crowd when he was supposed to
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: be attending his typing classes. Michael Paine's extracurricular activities in
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: the spring of sixty three were limited to just social
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: fund As was described in an earlier article in Probe,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: Payne liked to engage students at Southern Method at the
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: university in political debate about communism in general in Cuba
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: in particular, he promoted pro castro views.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: And I was reading he said in those one of
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: his Warran Commission testimonies that he did not talk to
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: Oswald at all about Cuba. Yeah, bullshit, and really quickly, Robin,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: don't want to interrupt you, tiny dancer. There are seven
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: hides in the oss personal files. Tell me the first
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: name again, and William William Avery was it.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: There's seven hides and they're all related.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: William Avery, I think was Yeah, I think.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: At Clyde Hyde out too while you're at it, and
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: Carl Hyde, Yeah, all right are We'll take it from.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: The deep stay tiny.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: Even Bragg to being personally acquainted with a real live Communist,
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: an ex marine who had recently returned to the States
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: with a Russian wife, an obvious reference to Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: Payne also invited students to attend local communist cell meetings,
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: according to Robert Oswald, who was suspicious of Pain from
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: the moment he met him. Payne was also rumored to
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: be involved in the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, just
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: like Lee. Moreover, Payne liked to attend both right wing
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: and left wing political meetings. Thus, no matter how Michael
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: Payne endeavored to distance himself for Oswald during the Warren
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: Commission investigation which we've read here, the fact remains that
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: Michael and Lee were actually two peas in a pod.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: It doesn't surprise me. It seems like they would have
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of political ideological conversations, and it does make
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: you think, though someone like Michael Payne, who has a
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: lot of money, right, is kind of an elite right
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: kind of mucking around with Oswalt here the same thing
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: with George de Morinshield right, former baron in Russia, dealing
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: with with Lee Harvey. Oswalt keeping an eye on him,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: and it's hard to end. David Ferry as well, another
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: very educated older person, right, Michael Payne Ferry to Moron Shield,
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: All older people that I think could have had an
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 2: ideological influence on Oswalt for in whatever way. I think
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: it's consistent all those.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: Three and Trey. That is not James Dean, but that
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: is John F. Kennedy. So yes, time for new glasses, sir,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: it is John F. Kennedy.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: Oh No, Sally has to say good night totally. Her
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: cats are being massive bell ends.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: I know how that goes.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, s got you on the TV night, Sally. I
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: hope you can fall asleep to the nice.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: Dulton tones our voice right nineteen nineties. Michael Payne saw
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: the backyard photos in April of nineteen sixty three, so
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: he says. Michael Payne, now three decades later, is now
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: admitting that he first saw Oswald's backyard revolutionary photos prior
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: to the Kennedy assassination. In a CBS report the title
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: Who Killed JFK The Final Chapter which aired in November
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: of ninety three, Michael Payne told Dan Rather that Oswald
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: proudly showed him a photograph holding his rifle and some
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: papers when he went to pick him up one afternoon,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: presumably for the April second dinner engagement. If true, this
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: may account for pains lunchtime discombobulation upon hearing the news
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: of the Kennedy shooting. But if Payne knew Oswald to
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: be a violent, prone revolutionary as far back as April,
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: how does Paine explain his subsequent relationship with Oswald in
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: the fall of nineteen sixty three. Excuse me? How could
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: he let this person stay at his wife's house with
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: his own children, knowing that Oswald kept a rifle in
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: a blanket. A blanket is just as obvious a feature
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: in the backyard photos as the narrow clapboard. How could
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: he fail to recognize the metal object wrapped in a
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: blanket in his garage as a rifle which he handled
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: several times? After all, he was the one who unloaded
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: this bulky package when Ruth moved Marina and the Oswald's
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: meager possessions back to Dallas from New Orleans in September.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: Why did he withhold this vital information from the FBI
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: and the Warrant Commission in sixty three and sixty four.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: The Pains are becoming more suspicious by the minute, and
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: the oddities in their behavior and statements do not stop here.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: I verily much agree with that assessment of things for Shizzy.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: And that brings me back to whatever his name is, Krasinski,
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: chrisenic who said when he found out about the Typic
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: killing and that Oswalt was arrested, he's not supposed to
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: have a gun.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: Chrisenek told the Warrent Commission that Michael Pain said. So
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: it makes you wonder if if they found the gun
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: and told him not to at some point and told
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: him not to have it. Although why would you kind
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: of say that. I don't know, I'm just kinda thinking
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: off the top of my head here, but interesting.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: Which brings us to nineteen and sixty six Joe. Apparently
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: in sixty six, during the Garrison inquiry in the clay
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: Shaw trial, the Pains and the des morn Shields had
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: dinner together, okay, and they had a discussion over the
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: new backyard snapshot that was mentioned for the first time
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: by Ruth in her nineteen sixty seven grand jury testimony
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: in Jim Garrison's prosecution of Clay Shaw. The discovery of
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: this new photograph should have reinforced Ruth's views that Oswald
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: was indeed the lone nut assassin who deserved to die
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: at the hands of Jack Ruby. But be aware that
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: this pious quaker told author Jessmine West in the summer
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: of sixty four that she was glad that Oswald was
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: dead and glad that he was killed by Ruby. Ruth
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: justified her rather shocking and unchristian comments on the grounds
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: that Oswald's death spared Marina the trauma of a trial.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: We are reminded of Jack Ruby's phony excuse that he
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: killed Oswald to spare Jackie Kennedy the trauma of a
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: trial is the same screenwriter at work here. Ruth's opinion
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: of Oswald's guilt, however, does not become more entrenched with
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: the de Mornshield photo, you know, the Hunter of Fascist photo. Instead,
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: Ruth would write a positively gushy letter to Garrison, offering
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: to help out with his investigation and his courageous quest
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: for the truth. Needless to say, the offer was ignored
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: by Garrison. Who had already formed his own opinion that
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: the Pains were suspicious characters. Yeah, agreed. H. So you know,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: everybody has their suspicions about the Pains and what they
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: were doing with the Oswalds, you know, Michael and Ruth,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: you know. And I think the best illustration of Ruth
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: Pain is in that movie Joe, The Assassination and Missus Pain,
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: where it seems like her story is this rehearsed, word
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: for word insert tears here, insert emotions here, insert gasp here,
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: pause here, retelling of her narrative since day one to now.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: It just seems all a bit too rehearsed for me
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: to buy her story in any way. It's you've got
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: to see the movie, you know, go over on Amazon Prime.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: You can get it for a couple of bucks. It's
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: called The Assassination and Missus Pain. Michael Payne is in
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: the is in the movie briefly as he's old and
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: seen now and then.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: You get yelled at something he shouldn't have and like
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: Ruth corrects him or something.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know that it was Ruth, but he
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: may have had a gumar at the Old Folks Home.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: You might you never know, You never know, there's always always,
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: no matter where you are in life, there's always time
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: for a gumar.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: I think amen.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: But let me just say one thing, Perfessional Concepts, Why
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: talk Cuba and political discussions after the Cuban missile crisis. Yeah,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: it seems really out of the realm possibility that Michael
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: and Lee did not talk about Cuba. That's that's a
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: stretch for me.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, total stretch. But uh, I think we'll wrap it
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: up there, folks. We're coming up on a two hour
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: mark again as always. But hey, you know, time fly
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: is when you're having fun and Joe, is there anything
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: that you want to leave the people with.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 6: I just want to thank John, Lee, Jack Copetual Concepts,
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 6: Paula and Scott Edwards for your supershats and stickers. We
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 6: appreciate it as always, and of course everyone that has
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 6: joined us.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: You know who you are. We love you.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: We appreciate you guys hanging every week. And we had
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: over fifty viewers rob tonight, so yes, people are raging
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: with us on Friday.
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: So we love the fifty cherry.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: That's it for me, guys.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, you know the drill. If you like
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: the show, especially like Button Jared. You know, if you're
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: not subscribe, subscribe. We do actually have a very good
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: watcher to subscriber ratio, so that's good. I've seen channels
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: on here where it's like nine percent of the people
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: watching your videos aren't subscribed to you, which is insane
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: to me. But we actually have a very good ratio
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: for that, but we could always use more. We're creeping
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: up on two thousand. Hopefully we'll get there before the
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: end of the year. That will be awesome. That's a
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: goal that we are working towards. So yeah, once again,
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: thank you folks for tuning in and hanging out with us.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: We had a blast. As always. We appreciate all of
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: the interaction and support we get from our comment crew.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: And yeah, y'all need anythink name better than the comment crew,
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: but we will we'll work on that. We will take
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: suggestions for the folks in our comment section during the
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: show because there's a whole other show going on in
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: the comment section while we're doing the show. And it's awesome.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: I think it's great. Did all you guys get along
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: and uh interact with each other and have fun and
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, that's it for us. This week's folks. Until
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: next week America, England, Media, Australia, Russia, well, Lily, Nico, Japan. Now,
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: I love you all, thanks you for tuning in, and
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: that's for us the next time, folks. Peace, peace, pak speace, peace, peace.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: Have a great weekend, gentleman.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: In a Dallas