Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / John Tesar: Working with Anthony Bourdain, Stars, Tweets, Restaurant Empires | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 116

Transcript

John Tesar: Working with Anthony Bourdain, Stars, Tweets, Restaurant Empires | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 116 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello, chefs. This is Chef's PSA podcast.
0:02
I'm your host, Andre Natera. On today's episode, we have
0:05
legendary chef John Tazar. He's a chef, restauranteur
0:09
legend in the game. He's earned a Michelin star.
0:12
He used to be Anthony Bourdain's chef.
0:14
He's a friend of mine. And he's just overall a really
0:16
interesting, cool guy. I think you'll enjoy this
0:18
conversation. We talked about being Anthony
0:20
Bourdain's chef, Michelin running a successful restaurant,
0:24
the highs and lows of the kitchen, and some great chef
0:26
advice as well. You really want to listen to
0:28
this one, it's a fun one. Stay tuned.
0:42
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1:17
We're live chef. It's good seeing you.
1:18
Good to see you buddy. Yeah, it's been too long.
1:20
I'm trying to think when the last time I saw, I mean, I saw
1:21
you at Hot Luck. Yeah, last year at Hot Luck I.
1:24
Saw you at hot Luck, but I'm trying to think when I think it
1:26
was at knife years ago. I went to go have I had lunch
1:29
and that was probably the last time I saw you like sat down and
1:32
had a conversation with. You.
1:32
I think I saw you once before you left the Fairmont as you
1:35
were leaving town. Yeah.
1:37
To come down here. Yeah, how you been, man?
1:39
That's good, you know, no complaints you know life's
1:43
always going to be what it is you know I I've just kind of
1:46
learned to kick back and be myself and not sweat the small
1:50
stuff, you know, focus. I've been very blessed to get
1:53
all these deals, licensing deals with major hotel groups, Ritz
1:58
Carlton, Marriott worldwide. You know, it's, it's a
2:00
privilege, but you know, there's a challenge to everything.
2:04
You know, like when you when you license your name or your brand
2:08
or whatever it is that you created or that people seek you
2:11
for, it's, it's you have to be, it's, you know, it's, it's
2:15
double edged sword. You have to give up a little
2:18
control. You have to can I?
2:20
Have the breakfast buffet. No buffets, no buffets.
2:23
We, we, we have that in the contract.
2:24
It's all good to see. It's all about negotiations in
2:27
business, truly. You learn about that, but then
2:30
when you get to operational, you have to let go because you have
2:32
to let younger. The thing I like about the most
2:35
is I let younger people show me who they are and how good they
2:39
are or what they're capable of or what, what their direction
2:42
they're going in. And I apply it to like where I'm
2:45
at. You know, it helps rejuvenate
2:47
me. I'm always looking for education
2:50
or someone to show me something new because I know I don't know
2:52
everything, especially about cooking.
2:54
I've always been a very simplistic, ingredient driven,
2:58
very simple minded, you know, like Marco Pierre White says,
3:02
it's not like a creative period. It's just like, you know, it's,
3:05
it's reconstruction. It's it's, it's working things
3:08
out until you like them or somebody else likes them.
3:12
And I think as you mature as a chef, you realize it's not about
3:15
you, it's about the customer. And it's called the hospitality
3:19
business, not the ego. Hey, look at me business.
3:23
But that also is a delicate balance because you have to do
3:26
something interesting enough, be good enough, stick with it along
3:30
enough, have your peers respect you to to actually be something
3:34
in this business other than a paycheck and another, you know,
3:37
another guy in a chef coat. I mean, I think that that's kind
3:40
of a dying art to me in a sense of tradition.
3:44
You know, I, I do believe everything is based in the
3:46
classics, whether you want to believe it or not.
3:48
And I see in this society right now, we have a general tendency
3:52
to erase history to kind of create a future for ourselves,
3:58
which I don't think is the way to go about that.
4:00
I just think that you need to base it off history.
4:02
You can create your foundation and then you can go wild.
4:06
But if you don't pay your dues to the generation before you,
4:09
you're the selfish prick, you know, in my mind.
4:11
And you know, I've been a selfish prick at times when I
4:13
was younger, you know, and an asshole, you know, rage in the
4:16
kitchen. And you know, the, the thing,
4:19
the stories about throwing things and drinking.
4:21
I've never been that guy, You know what I mean?
4:22
I've thrown things in the kitchen, but not like I've seen
4:24
some chefs like I met, I can tell you say his name, Jean
4:28
Louis Paladin, famous man. I walked into the Rio in Las
4:32
Vegas. This was years ago, decades ago.
4:35
I was just a young man coming to Vegas and I was being introduced
4:38
by this guy Omar, who ran the foundation room and was the food
4:41
and beverage director of the Rio at the time.
4:44
And he was showing me Jean Louise Restaurant.
4:47
And as I walked into the restaurant, I literally saw a
4:49
Dolver Soapan fly from one side to the kitchen, hit the wall,
4:54
slide down. And I heard a lot of profanity
4:57
in French and I was like, it's a restaurant.
5:00
Yeah, times have changed, right? So one of the things that I like
5:03
to say is if you were tasked with digging A10 foot hole and
5:07
someone else dug 9 feet and you only dug the last foot, you
5:10
can't say you dug all 10 feet. Someone dug 9 feet before you
5:13
before you took over. Most definitely.
5:15
I don't want to give that credit.
5:16
That I give everybody before me, after me, working with me
5:21
credit. I just don't think if you can't
5:23
get to that point in your career, well, you realize
5:26
because of HR, because of growth, because of multiple
5:30
locations, because of television and popularity and you know, all
5:35
these other things, you, you have to give other people
5:38
credit. Otherwise you are the biggest
5:41
douchebag on the planet. And I've never been that guy.
5:44
I'd never want to be that guy. And you need to cultivate.
5:47
This is what's missing from the world.
5:49
I think of kitchens and you see it with Danielle, you see it
5:52
with John George. You know, they cultivate people,
5:55
they mentor people. You yourself have been you're a
5:58
real chef chef. You know this.
6:00
You have to work with people. You have to appreciate them.
6:03
You have to absorb from them like a sponge and you can't do
6:06
it from YouTube and a cookbook. You just can't do it.
6:09
I'm sorry. It's not I'm not Pooh poohing
6:11
that. There's a lot of listen.
6:12
I go to YouTube all the time when I run out of ideas, like,
6:14
see, he was doing something, but I'm not often fascinated by what
6:18
I'm seeing because I I don't need to transform something into
6:21
a foam or a shape or, you know, it's just not who I am.
6:24
You know, I if you want, if you like that and you're a master of
6:27
it, God bless you. But where are those restaurants
6:29
today? Yeah.
6:30
The bubble food's gone. Bubble food air is dead.
6:32
Well, World's Fifty Best just came out, right?
6:36
So there was a couple of Spanish restaurants that kind of crept
6:39
into the top 10. So I was thinking, man, maybe
6:42
bubble food's back. Maybe I was wrong.
6:44
No, I, you know, I love those guys.
6:46
I I read a review of Mugaritz the other day that was just
6:48
unbelievable. Video.
6:49
Was it a video? Oh.
6:50
Yeah, it was some guy just dissing the place.
6:52
And you know, I've been there and I've had magical
6:54
experiences, but that's people don't.
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This is what's wrong with popularity and television and
7:01
fads and, you know, sound bites and social media is that people
7:05
get a taste of something and then they think they know
7:09
everything about it or they understand it.
7:12
This is a destination place, and you have to do a little research
7:15
before you go to a restaurant like Mugaritz.
7:17
You have to know that it's in the Pyrenees Mountains.
7:19
You have to know that Andoni worked at El Buli and he's going
7:23
to do his own interpretations. And you look over the hill and
7:25
you see the water. That's where the seafood comes
7:27
from. The cheese comes from the goat
7:30
over there. You know, all of this is really
7:32
0 kilometra like on the property, regional stuff.
7:36
And then with this Spanish mind that these guys sit down at
7:39
tables and figure out what they can put into things, take out of
7:42
things. They work for months on these
7:44
things. You know, elderly was closed for
7:46
six months. They worked on development.
7:49
If I had a team of 30 guys and six months, oh I, I have 3
7:53
Michelin stars right here in Texas, you know, but I don't
7:55
know how much money I'd make or who's coming, but I, it would be
7:58
a Michelin star restaurant for. Sure.
8:00
How much? So when?
8:02
When did when did you start cooking?
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What would be your eras that come up as a cook?
8:05
Oh, I would say the 80s for sure.
8:07
You know, I started early, late 70s washing dishes in 76,
8:13
grilling burgers in 77 and 78, making salads in 79, and then
8:19
chef de cuisine, blah, blah, blah, 80, you know, and that was
8:24
like a stretch chef de cuisine because I was making a lot of
8:26
mistakes until this French guy Willie showed up and taught me
8:29
how to make sauces and, and really be a French chef.
8:32
And then I went off to Europe because I, I figured that was
8:35
the move to make. It was not only about money, but
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it was about tradition and also true understanding of I wanted
8:41
to be that, you know, Andre Sultner, I wanted to be, you
8:45
know, Rashu at Lacote Basque. That was this.
8:47
You know, it wasn't even about Michael McCarty and Jonathan
8:50
Waxman. They were puppies working in
8:52
these restaurants. You know, Rick Moonen used to
8:55
put the bones in the oven at Lacote Basque, while, you know,
8:57
Truman Capote and Jackie O are in the dining room.
9:00
So you know, I we go way, way back.
9:03
So when you, when you think about your, your career, because
9:05
I mean, you've had quite the career, quite the legacy, you've
9:08
worked with the who's who you've done.
9:10
I mean, you have a what people's buckets list.
9:13
You've done it right. I've done a lot of things.
9:15
You've done a lot of really great things as a chef.
9:16
And so when I, when you look at your career, when you talk about
9:18
food, is there a period in time that is like, if you could go
9:23
back to it, That is the period of time that you say, this is
9:25
the food that I could cook for the rest of my life, that I
9:27
enjoy eating and I enjoyed cooking.
9:30
Yeah, I would say, you know, if there was a time period too and
9:33
a place, it would be New York City, late, early, late 80s,
9:39
early 90s, around the the time where Larry Forgione did
9:43
American Place and he was hanging out with James Beard
9:46
while he was still alive. And Paul Prudhomme.
9:49
I literally witnessed these. I had Privy to these experiences
9:52
walking into American Place and talking to James Beard, Paul
9:55
Prudhomme and Larry Forgione at the same time because Larry was
9:58
consulting in a restaurant, 1020 Jacks, 1022 Lexington Ave. that
10:03
I was hired to be the chef after I got back from France.
10:07
Still not ready for that position in New York, but Larry
10:10
Forgeo and Larry Elbert, who later was the chef at the Sonoma
10:13
Mission Inn, and they all came from the River Cafe in Brooklyn.
10:16
Famous thing with Buzzy O'Keefe in New York.
10:18
I'm going way, way back now. So I've had these moments.
10:22
And then, you know, Jonathan Waxman created jams.
10:24
I mean, legendary talk about like, you know, bringing
10:26
California, bringing simplicity, bringing precise but modern
10:31
healthy cooking to New York and, you know, wrapping it around the
10:34
most beautiful people in the lifestyle and the Upper East
10:37
Side in the disco era. And, you know, lots of white
10:40
powder and all kinds of crazy stuff.
10:42
Who, who was I'm trying to think this.
10:44
You mentioned the Sonoma Mission and Bruno T Song was the chef
10:47
there. He was the chef at the Plaza in
10:49
New York back in the probably when Trump was running the Plaza
10:52
back then. And who else was the chef?
10:55
Kerry Simon, I think. Was Oh yeah, Kerry.
10:56
Was the chef at the restaurant inside the Plaza?
11:00
Yeah, the Palm Court. Yeah, the Palm.
11:01
I mean, these are the good old days.
11:02
So what a lot of people may know, I know this may be a lot
11:05
of people that are listening don't know, but you and Anthony
11:08
deporting cross paths. I was just reading the book a
11:11
couple months ago. And so he your character in
11:13
there is Jimmy Sears, Jimmy Sears.
11:15
But at the end, he also references you when he's
11:17
starting to list off a legacy of great chefs in New York at the
11:20
time, and he calls you out by name.
11:21
He. He he puts me in the book in, in
11:23
in several places, one with a pseudonym and then some
11:29
compliments in the backhanded, compliments in the back under a
11:32
real name and then a medium raw. He has a little, I guess it's
11:36
not a full chapter, but it's like my, I forget what it's
11:39
called my chef or whatever. And he outs me as because he,
11:44
for years people wouldn't believe I was Jimmy Sears, you
11:46
know, and that's a tribute to Tony's like fame.
11:50
You know, it's like when you say like I knew Frank Sinatra,
11:52
people like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, sure he did.
11:54
Yeah, sure he did. You know, that's the whole
11:56
thing. But people don't realize that,
11:57
you know, like, it's a weird thing.
11:59
He was so famous. People think that I work for
12:02
him, but he worked for me. And we met at formerly Joe's
12:06
Bigfoot, Andy Menschel. I was down on my luck, blah,
12:10
blah, blah. And then we all went off to the
12:12
supper club where I hired Adam, last name unknown.
12:17
Steve Temple, God rest his soul, died in a car accident, I think,
12:20
two years ago. Terrible.
12:22
And we put that crew together. And Tony, as I was putting my
12:27
life back together, Tony was becoming a real chef.
12:31
You know, he had gone to Vassar. He had gone to the Culinary
12:34
Institute of America. He had worked in the 70s, you
12:37
know, down at the South St. Seaport and these pirate
12:40
kitchens where you see him with the knives and the the bandanas.
12:43
You know, that was the state of American cooking back then.
12:46
There was nothing fancy about it at all.
12:47
It was like it wasn't a glamorous job, folks.
12:49
There was no there was no Bobby Flay, no God Fieri.
12:52
No one had a camera. There was no Food Network.
12:54
None. Of that, no.
12:54
Podcasts, yeah. No.
12:56
Podcasts was that we were just trying to get a job.
12:58
I was trying to make some money and, you know, stay alive and
13:00
and I love to cook, you know, so that's the beauty of the era
13:04
that I come from. But Bourdain comes from that
13:06
same thing. So we had a lot in common and we
13:09
loved life and believe it or not, we love to go skiing
13:12
together of all things. So like, we'd go to Hunter
13:14
Mountain or sometimes I'd take him to Killington and even Tony
13:18
never turned. It's just a little known fact.
13:20
Maybe Eric Repair knows this, but when I knew him, Tony
13:24
couldn't turn. So he was always the fastest guy
13:27
down the hill because once he went, he never stopped.
13:31
And you know, I'm glad we took him to only upstate New York and
13:35
like smaller hills in Vermont because I think we probably
13:37
would have killed him if we took him someplace else because he
13:39
never turned to skis. He always goes as fast as he
13:41
could so. So back in the day, you were you
13:44
were his boss and he worked for you.
13:46
You were training him. I was the chef.
13:48
Andy had gone to Gotham Bar and Grill.
13:51
He wanted the chef to turn around.
13:53
Formerly Joe's. It's in the book and he goes
13:57
well, Christmas season is coming up.
13:59
And this guy Flacco, Tony, he's he's down in the Saint Martin
14:04
with his wife, Nancy's first wife, Nancy, whose father was a
14:07
prominent surgeon. So, you know, she propped it up
14:10
the relationship a little bit. And he was down there writing
14:12
Bone in the throat, all those mafia novels that he wrote prior
14:16
to writing Kitchen Confidentials.
14:19
So he was an unpublished author at the time, but writing
14:22
constantly and very intellectual, very interesting.
14:25
You know, you can tell by the voice over every show.
14:27
He's a great conversationalist, very charming in some strange,
14:31
unique way. And we just hit it off.
14:33
So I would cook for him, and then we would talk about life
14:36
afterwards. And we'd smoke weed.
14:39
We'd go out. And oddly enough, in this bar
14:41
that I worked in, in the Hamptons Magics pub, I made
14:45
Bloody Mary mix tuna fish sandwiches.
14:47
I learned how to grill hamburgers there.
14:49
I was a bar boy at night, but on Sundays, every once in a while,
14:54
Jimmy Breslin, Pete Hamill, George Plimpton and a few other
15:00
writers would come in. They were all out there in their
15:02
summer vacations, you know, they were, I don't know whether they
15:04
played golf or they wanted to talk or they were writing.
15:07
Let's meet, you know, And they would sit at this 6th Tool Bar
15:10
in West Hampton Beach and I'm like shaking the Bloody Mary mix
15:14
listening to these guys talk about life.
15:16
So I got to know them after a few summers, right?
15:19
So when Tony and I were down in the village, Dennis, our friend,
15:24
worked at formerly Joe's, but he was also a bartender at the Red
15:27
Lion, so I got to. Forgot about that hotel.
15:30
The the Red Lion, Dennis, these writers would they all work for
15:34
the New York Post in the Daily News.
15:36
And after they did their byline, they would go drink at the Red
15:38
Lion. And Dennis was our key to the
15:41
Red Lion. We went there, sat at the bar
15:43
and I got to introduce those guys to Bourdain way before he
15:48
was famous. And these were these are some of
15:50
the best like newspaper journalist in New York City.
15:54
You know, Jimmy Breslin wrote about son of Sam.
15:57
Pete Hamill was actually dating Jackie O at the time, you know
16:00
what I mean? So and he had a column in the
16:03
Daily News, I believe. And then Jimmy Breslin wrote for
16:07
page 6 and not page 6, but he had a column for I think in
16:10
every paper in New York City at one time.
16:12
And at the time I think it was the New York Post.
16:13
And George Plimpton, famous writer, filmmaker was doing
16:17
Paper Lion, you know, he was, he was a writer that actually wrote
16:21
and then involved himself in the situations, very famous writer
16:24
in the 70s and the 80s. Hampton socialite too.
16:27
So like it was, it was fascinating for me to introduce
16:30
those guys to Bourdain when he wanted to be such a famous
16:33
writer. So I'd hang out and these guys
16:35
would all talk about this. And I was just like a chef, you
16:38
know, I'm having AI. Don't know what I was drinking
16:40
back then, but it was something I was just fascinated by the the
16:43
energy I was able to create by introducing all these people.
16:46
And that's what you get from the restaurant business.
16:48
And that's that's how Tony and I hit it off.
16:49
Really, it's funny, every, every now and again, I think about my
16:54
career. I think about your career
16:55
because there's there's times that our careers have, have have
16:58
crossed paths. I think back, I don't know when
17:01
you were, when you opened up the commissary in Dallas.
17:05
And I remember we went, we did an event and we we sat there and
17:08
we had, we had drinks after this event that I did.
17:10
And it was you and Matt McAllister.
17:12
And I think Stephen Doyle was there and there was a lot of
17:15
chefs, but the only one who had a name at the time was you.
17:19
And I just remember looking around like, man, one day people
17:22
are going to look back on this and be like, all these fucking
17:26
people were in the same room at the same time.
17:27
But you've probably had that many times in your career, like.
17:30
Oh, I love those. Those are the moments I live
17:32
for. And you know, and you know,
17:34
Brent who works for me, Brent Weathers, I take him around the
17:37
country right to all these events.
17:39
And Brent's like 6/4 has big Rasta hair.
17:42
Everybody knows him by now. And the fact that I can take
17:45
Brent anywhere in the world and like Danielle's high fiving him,
17:49
you know, you name it. Curtis Stones hugging him
17:53
everywhere you go. Everybody knows Brent, because
17:55
this is what our business or those situations create, you
17:59
know, is that we've been able to go to these festivals and our
18:02
work our way up the from the bottom to the top and cook next
18:06
to some of the greatest chefs in the world and, and hang with
18:09
them, you know, have the crowd like our food.
18:11
That's that's how a lot of this came about was like hanging
18:14
myself out there, you know, that people realize I had a name, but
18:18
I started in the Hamptons on my own.
18:20
I owned my first restaurant when I was 24.
18:22
I went broke at 32 in New York trying to get a restaurant to
18:25
open and owning a building and that's when I met Tony to the
18:29
supper club. I worked for Mariah Carey try to
18:31
rebuild my life. Worked the in a quag that
18:34
summer. That's when I had 13 Barrow St.
18:35
which was a huge hit in the 90s. One night I'll never forget this
18:39
at 13 Barrow St. GAIL Green, the food critic for
18:42
New York Magazine, had written a stellar review about our
18:44
restaurant. It was like I was crying.
18:46
I literally cried. I've only cried a few times
18:48
about reviews or reviewers in my life.
18:50
And this was one of those moments because it was like a
18:52
childhood. The moment I live is like GAIL
18:55
Green was giving me a review. Like I used to like look at my
18:58
mother's magazine when I was 12/13 and read about every, you
19:03
know, name is chef. So the new trendy thing that was
19:05
going on. And I for me, I was like, wow,
19:08
one day, like you said, one day, you know, and I believe that's
19:11
something that chefs and cooks, they lose because they want to
19:15
do it now instead of the one day, you know, once you start
19:18
doing things for money or for attention, you lose, you lose
19:24
the path because it's not one day, it's a long period of time.
19:28
It's a lot of ups and downs. No matter who you are, the good,
19:31
the good guys just make it look good, you know, or they have
19:34
enough money to sweat it and bury it.
19:36
You know what I mean? Everybody fails.
19:37
You can't, if you can't have success without failure.
19:41
But see those moments and, and feeling that empowerment by
19:45
being around those people, putting yourself out there,
19:49
spending the time to watch, not wanting the attention, earning
19:53
the reputation through your food and your personality to some
19:56
extent. Excuse me.
19:58
And by personality, I mean by like what your restaurant
20:01
resonates as. Like one of the greatest moments
20:03
in my life was that when Esquire magazine named US one of the
20:06
most influential restaurants of the decade because I had the
20:10
guts to take the steakhouse on head first.
20:13
You know, 10 years later and I don't think anybody cares
20:15
anymore. You know, they want the next
20:17
trendy thing, they want the new. And far be it for me.
20:20
I've gotten all the attention I've ever needed in my entire
20:22
life. I have 5 restaurants.
20:24
Hopefully we're going to have a hotel right down the block here
20:27
in the next two years and have other things on the table.
20:30
I just opened a restaurant and there's a lot of work that goes
20:32
with maintaining those. You know, people don't realize,
20:35
Oh, great, you have 5 restaurants.
20:37
Yeah, I have to go around and I give up a lot of control of
20:41
those operations, you know, to be in a Ritz Carlton to get my
20:45
place, to get myself in a situation where I can earn a
20:48
Michelin star. So for people that don't know,
20:50
where are your restaurants right now?
20:52
We have the original Knife in the Highland Hotel across from
20:58
SMU off of 75 and Mockingbird, which after the first of the
21:02
year, we're renovating the entire hotel.
21:04
And I'm going to reconcept that after 11 years and name it
21:08
Knife, Steak and Seafood, which is a more approachable version
21:11
of what we're doing in Orlando, which was our Michelin star
21:14
restaurant in a Ritz Carlton, which has a Michelin key.
21:18
We had a Michelin star. We lost it last year.
21:20
We are on the path to getting it back.
21:23
This is something I like talking about is like, you know, like I
21:26
hope Dallas, I hope Texas is ready for Michelin because we're
21:30
used to softballs here, you know, and I can't tell you or
21:35
predict. I think it's one of the most
21:36
ridiculous things I've seen during this whole period that
21:39
every food writer, every Blogger in the world decided to make
21:42
their who they decided was going to get a Michelin star by.
21:45
The way I think there's 0 twos and possibly 0 threes, maybe 1-2
21:49
but I doubt it. 0 threes. When it comes to Michelin, I
21:52
have no, I have no, I don't second guess them.
21:55
I and I, when it comes to restaurants, I focus on my own.
21:58
That's something I've had to learn in the last few years is
22:01
like, you know, God bless anybody who gets it.
22:04
You'll understand what it means truly.
22:06
You know, I've had it. And what it means is that you're
22:08
a great destination for people who follow Michelin.
22:11
Did did you see a significant increase in business when you
22:14
got it? We did in Florida, but you know
22:15
that also another thing is Michelin is a destination
22:19
tourism kind of thing. So you know, Austin is a real
22:22
tourist destination, Dallas is a business destination, Fort Worth
22:26
is a business destination. So these things play into those
22:29
things. You know, Houston, San Antonio.
22:31
I think Michelin will be great for business people and for
22:34
foodies, but I think Texans are going to have a hard time truly
22:39
understanding what it is unless they're really involved in the
22:42
food scene or they're traveler. They're world travelers, which
22:45
there are a lot. Yeah, going going back.
22:48
So you also just opened up one in.
22:51
The Las Colinas, right? I'm sorry.
22:53
And then you have another one in California, right?
22:56
No, I, I get sold the restaurant in California.
22:59
I had an issue with the union. They attacked my children and I
23:03
got put on a video and then they try to cancel me on page 6 and
23:07
TMZ. And I was like, what am I doing
23:09
on any of those things? So I said, wow, that was the
23:12
moment where I was like, what? They tried to cancel?
23:15
Am I actually notable that someone wants to cancel me?
23:18
You're winning, right? So I made it.
23:20
I made nice. The union apologized to me, I
23:22
apologized to them and they went away.
23:24
But they're very powerful and they're very nice people, you
23:26
know, I don't. I don't begrudge anybody their
23:29
success or anybody whatever they need to survive to live in this
23:33
world. That's not what I do.
23:34
I cook and I design restaurants and I try to mentor people.
23:39
The rest of it I don't really pretend to know anything about
23:42
because I don't. Yeah, one of the things that
23:46
that you mentioned earlier, you you talked about how everyone
23:50
feels and, and I'll share something with the audience.
23:53
When I was in Dallas and the restaurant got a bad review and,
23:57
and my life was just going in a downward spiral.
23:59
What's interesting when you're on top, you know this, when
24:00
you're on top, everyone wants to be around you.
24:02
They want some of your shine friends pop out of nowhere.
24:05
Everyone loves you. But when you're on bottom, it's
24:08
like you got the itis. No one wants to see you, no one
24:10
wants to be your friend. Everyone blocks your calls.
24:13
It's completely different. You're ready.
24:14
I'll tell you a good story about being on the bottom.
24:16
And, and when I, I got my bad review, things are going South
24:20
in all, in all areas of my life. And I'll never forget got a
24:24
phone call from you and my killer and like, hey, we're
24:26
coming to have a drink. Like, and I was like, all right,
24:29
so I got this bad review. You, you were the only two that
24:31
showed up. You said, let's go upstairs,
24:33
let's have a drink. And you gave me the talk that I
24:37
needed to hear at that time. You might not remember, but I'll
24:39
never forget it. You know what I mean?
24:41
And you said, I'm paraphrasing. But you said, look tonight, cry
24:46
into your beer. You failed.
24:48
Who cares? I failed a lot.
24:50
You'll fail again. Get back after it tonight.
24:52
Have your pity party tomorrow. Get back after it.
24:55
And for that I am forever thankful.
24:57
Well, you're welcome. You know, I'll, I'd say that to
24:59
anybody because I've been there myself.
25:02
Chefs, restaurateurs, you know, we're the ones that spend
25:06
millions of dollars, right? Or hundreds of thousands of
25:09
dollars, have employees, liability insurance, you know,
25:12
taxes, rents, Cam charges, all this stuff.
25:17
And then someone comes and they have a dinner or two, and they
25:20
tell you all about your restaurant.
25:22
Yeah, great. But we now live in a world where
25:24
everyone can kind of do that, right?
25:27
That happens all the time in this business.
25:29
And you can't fall for it. It's just like James Beard.
25:31
You want a James Beard award? Win it, go earn it.
25:35
It's yours. God bless you.
25:37
I think the body of your work, the respect of your peers, and
25:40
how many asses are in the seats in your restaurants every night
25:43
and are you paying your bills? That's the award that I want to
25:46
fucking win. That's what we were talking
25:48
about the other day is like, I was at dinner group of chefs.
25:50
Like what award is most important?
25:52
Do you ever have food and wine? James Beard, you know, whatever.
25:55
And then someone. Where are?
25:56
Where are they now? Yeah, no, but then that.
25:58
Who won? Who won best Chef 2005?
26:01
Exactly. And so someone just finally said
26:03
the best award is a full restaurant that's making money.
26:06
Like that's golf. Clap for that.
26:10
Gentleman right. So going back to it's.
26:13
The only success that counts. Yeah, right.
26:15
It's the I hate to say it's money in the bank, if I can ask
26:17
this in the seats, but when you look back, when I look back at
26:20
the moment when I think it was the tweet right you sent you
26:23
sent Leslie a. Tweet.
26:23
Yeah, I sent tweet, FU tweet. It was.
26:26
I mean, a lot of people have opinions on it.
26:29
In retrospect, I look at that might have been the most
26:31
brilliant thing ever. I mean, they made a movie about
26:33
it, didn't give you credit. You know, Favreau did give me
26:37
credit. I was down here.
26:38
You want to talk about a great moment?
26:40
I'll tell you those two moments really quickly.
26:42
I came to the first Hot Luck, and I knew Roy Choi for a long
26:45
time. I met him in Lake Tahoe before
26:47
he had a tattoo, before he was cool running the streets of LA.
26:50
He was up in Lake Tahoe with me hiding after 911 trying to
26:53
figure out our lives. And he invited me for
26:55
Thanksgiving because we had done this photo shoot.
26:58
So I know Roy all this time and I had no idea he was the
27:02
consultant Don Chef. And I, I knew, you know, I had,
27:05
I know I had done that. And then that had happened and I
27:08
walked into Franklin's BBQ of all places in the world, and I
27:12
walk in and Favreau's slicing brisket.
27:14
Picture this for. The.
27:16
Show that he has. Yeah, Favreau is now slicing
27:18
brisket with Aaron Franklin at Hot Luck as a guest.
27:22
Right. And I walk in and.
27:24
And he looks up and he's waving like this.
27:26
And I'm like Favreau, he's like, no, you come over here and he
27:31
gives me a hug. And he acknowledged the whole FU
27:35
tweet and the, the whole chef thing.
27:37
And it was a it was like a great moment, you know, like it, it
27:39
was, it was in there already. But I we simultaneously had the
27:43
same feeling and I too feel the same way about chocolate lava
27:46
cake at this point. So.
27:48
What do you mean chocolate? So was that John George
27:50
underbake the cake or the chocolate?
27:52
Culanto was in France for years before that.
27:54
Like, what's the story? I would, you know, this is a
27:56
whole other thing. And I was actually there when
27:57
Jojo's was Jojo's before John George had the Empire.
28:01
And I did this thing at the supper club with Bourdain.
28:05
This is, Oh my God, it was Alex Strada, Patrick Clark, Stephen
28:11
Colt and the pastry chef from John George and me and Flacco.
28:19
And I decided I'm going to do a Volvo with foie gras for like
28:21
400 people. It was a disaster because the
28:24
foie gras had just, so basically I was taking the puff pastry and
28:27
just pouring sauce over the top of it.
28:29
And everybody, the who's who, like Al Roca was the, you know,
28:32
it was a comeuppance for me. He's in the 90s.
28:34
I was still struggling with like where I was going to go with my
28:36
career. And then the next course was
28:38
like Alex Strada, you know, he was in a Venetian at that point.
28:42
And then Patrick Clark, the legendary Patrick Clark's doing
28:45
the squab dish. And then what are they making
28:47
for dessert? Miniature chocolate fallen
28:50
souffles. This is 199192.
28:55
No one knew what it was, but this will show you food.
28:57
And now they have it at Chili's on on the menu because everybody
29:01
realizes it's the easiest dessert to make if you're not a
29:05
pastry chef because all you have to do is just take melt
29:07
chocolate with little cream Folsom egg whites in it.
29:10
Drop an egg yolk or two somewhere during that process.
29:12
If you want to use flour, use flour for stability.
29:15
But I never did. And it was just like, you know,
29:17
it's this beautiful, dense chocolate cake that you can put
29:20
anything on. So you were there at the
29:21
beginning. The inception.
29:22
I was there at the in the inception.
29:24
So when you look back at this, this famous tweet, when you look
29:28
back at that moment, how different was your trajectory
29:35
after that? Because after that, I think you
29:36
went on Top Chef, right? Or was it around the same time
29:38
shortly after that? I had already been on Top Chef
29:42
when I did the tweet. You had.
29:45
Yes, I think the first time. The first time.
29:48
But it was a prelude to the second time.
29:50
But it had nothing to do with me being on the second time.
29:53
So the first time it became from the most hated article, right?
29:57
They were interested in a villain, They thought I was
29:59
going to be a villain and they portrayed me as a villain.
30:01
For people that don't know, there was a D magazine, there
30:03
was a you made the. Cover of the magazine.
30:05
Said the most hated chef in Dallas.
30:07
You had like, food. On yeah, I cooperated.
30:08
It was a great. I didn't know what the, I didn't
30:10
know what the title was going to be.
30:12
I still have it. Maybe I'd get you to sign it.
30:14
It was a great. It was a great article in
30:15
retrospect. You know, it taught me how to
30:17
make lemons into lemonade, you know, and, and it is true.
30:20
Like, no matter what, unless you're doing something totally
30:24
horrific or breaking the law, all press is pretty good for you
30:27
because that's the culture we live in.
30:29
People want to be known. They want to be understood.
30:33
You know, I've kind of gone the opposite way lately.
30:36
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31:12
Yeah, so I want to ask you about Michelin for people that are
31:18
listening. So I'm, I'm a lot, a lot of, a
31:22
lot of the audience that listens to chef's PSA.
31:24
They're, they're, this is their opportunity for coaching and
31:26
mentoring for people that don't have access to coaches and
31:29
mentors. So if, if someone said, hey,
31:32
give me a high level advice, I want to get a Michelin star.
31:36
What is going to be, you know your your 3 minute spiel to help
31:42
them get it. By three minute spiel won't even
31:45
be 3 minutes. It's to go to Europe or go to
31:50
California and not the French Laundry because to emulate
31:54
something that already exists is not going to work for you.
31:58
But learning standards. And I say go to a one star and
32:02
it's like go to a go to a restaurant that's in the guide.
32:05
I would be happy. And I don't think any of my
32:07
restaurant I'll be totally honest with because we're not
32:09
tooled for this. I am going to restructure the
32:11
one at the Highland and we are going to shoot a year from now,
32:15
18 months from now, 24 months from now.
32:18
Our goal is to get a Michelin star at Knife Italian in the
32:21
Ritz Carlton, which has a level of service, a level of ambiance,
32:26
a level of elegance. And I know that Michelin will
32:28
give out a lot of Bib Gourmands to barbecue and tacos, you know,
32:32
because it's a price point thing too.
32:34
It's a service issue, you know, like to move up to the guide and
32:38
to the star. There are certain elements.
32:40
I, I can't tell you what those elements are, even though I have
32:43
had a Michelin star and I've worked in Michelin star
32:45
restaurants. You know, you'll see in movies
32:47
that the guy goes to the bar, has a half bottle of wine.
32:49
You're like all this other stuff.
32:51
I don't know whether that's true or not.
32:53
You know, and I had a Michelin *2 years running and we lost it
32:56
last year because we, we, the team took it for granted.
33:00
And we're on a destiny. We're, we're, we're on a mission
33:03
to get it back. And the way we did it is to go
33:06
back to basics. So, you know, if you understand
33:09
the European system, if you, if you see other Michelin starred
33:12
restaurants that just compare yourself to them and that's
33:15
what's going to happen. I, I haven't been to a non
33:19
Japanese Michelin star restaurant in Texas.
33:22
I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I would think that I don't
33:27
know, you know, in Florida, like I said, I can't predict what
33:30
Michelin's going to do. And I, I have AI don't know of a
33:33
Michelin star experience that I've had here.
33:35
And I don't mean any disrespect. You have to have carts, a
33:37
beverage cart. You have to have a cheese cart,
33:39
maybe a dessert cart. And I'm not talking about, like,
33:41
one. Will you wheel over cheesecake
33:43
and Strawberry Shortcake? You're talking the old Girodon.
33:45
Yeah, and. You have to have an amuse.
33:46
And you have to have a sommelier and you have to have a maitre-d'
33:50
and you have to have a linen, you know, and crystal.
33:53
This is what a Michelin star restaurant is worthy of unless
33:57
you are doing something so totally unique.
34:01
But I haven't seen anything unique in Texas except BBQ, to
34:04
be honest with you. So I expect a lot of Bib
34:06
Gourmands and, you know, maybe they'll give Aaron Franklin a
34:09
star, but I, I, I don't, I don't think, I think that throws the
34:12
whole system to scratch. You know, it's like I, I was
34:14
always saying that I love these guys.
34:16
They're geniuses. They're they're talented, but
34:18
they're, it's a different type of chefing, you know, like James
34:22
Beard should have a special category for heritage BBQ
34:27
because it's more, it's more about history, American history,
34:30
you know, James Beard, like, you know, for years, all the French
34:34
European trained chefs, the Bradley Ogden's, the, you know,
34:37
all the guys we've mentioned, they were the ones winning best
34:39
chef in America right now that, you know, Chris Bianco, lifetime
34:44
achievement, definitely, you know, like that guy deserves an
34:45
award. I don't, I don't know what it
34:47
means from James Beard anymore, but he deserves an award.
34:49
You know, I mean, I would give him a hug and all the awards
34:52
that there are in the world, you know, but what happens is that
34:56
these things get diluted and I don't know what they mean
34:59
anymore. And then people waggle them in
35:01
your face like there's somebody and you don't want to be a Dick
35:05
and and burst their bubble. But you're like, you know, like
35:08
if I go to your restaurant and you blow me out of the chair or
35:12
you at least make me happy with the food, I'm going to say that
35:14
fucking guy deserves that thing. Do you give him another one when
35:18
you when you look at your career?
35:19
And your body of work, is there a moment, but I know we talk
35:22
about ass and seats and busy restaurants, but is there like a
35:24
moment when you said that was the bucket list award that I was
35:27
going after? I used to be that way and I I
35:31
stopped, I would say in the last other than the Michelin star
35:37
down in Florida when I heard that we could get it.
35:39
Of course, you know, I want to get one here, but it's not
35:41
happening today. I know that I'm realistic.
35:44
And then the retooling of the next restaurant, I'm going to
35:46
prepare for that. But I'll be, I'm preparing that
35:49
restaurant to make the guide, not to get the star.
35:52
The star for me has to be in the Ritz Carlton in the hotel.
35:56
You know, look, that's what that's what all the great hotels
35:59
in Europe, you know, the Ducasse, all these people,
36:02
they're Michelin starred restaurants, even if they're
36:04
1-2, you know, because they have this level of service and
36:07
hospitality that you're not going to get in your
36:10
neighborhood restaurant. And I agree with you.
36:12
I. Think I want to ask you about
36:15
the deals that you're in with these hotels, because I think
36:18
one of the great things about having a restaurant inside of a
36:20
hotel is you can spend a little bit of extra money.
36:23
You're not so worried about, hey, if we don't, if we're not,
36:26
we don't sell out tonight. We're closing the doors next
36:28
week. So from a from a coaching
36:32
someone from an entrepreneurial side, what I think back to the
36:35
deal that that Dean got when he went into the Ritz Carlton, I
36:39
mean, in Texas, that was like the first of its kind.
36:43
I've never seen anyone at that point in time like, OK, Ritz
36:46
Carlton, it's going to put a Dean Fearon restaurant in there.
36:49
And then slowly but surely, I think we had a craft in Dallas
36:52
that came in a little bit later. I can't remember what else
36:54
happened. But now you have structured so
36:57
many of these deals. If you were going to advise
36:59
someone, say, hey, here's some things that you need to know
37:02
that I wish I knew before I jumped into it.
37:04
And if you want to win, this is how you're going to win well.
37:08
My situation was accumulated over a period of time and a lot
37:12
of observation and a lot of luck.
37:15
I'll give you that right now, you make your own luck, but it's
37:18
through hard work and perseverance.
37:20
So when I made the transition from when I left New York after
37:24
911, I went to Lake Tahoe and did a big corporate project.
37:28
I worked with Clark Wolf, big restaurant consultant.
37:31
We did a lot of golf courses, ski resorts, lakefront
37:33
restaurant. I got a lot of politics, a lot
37:36
of real estate experience and just life experience of like how
37:41
a chef would run a resort, right?
37:43
Because I'd always hold myself, like, what am I doing in New
37:45
York? Like when they have planes
37:47
crashing into buildings, How come I've never been the chef of
37:49
a resort? I have friends that are in the
37:50
Bahamas and mountains there. They ski, they swim.
37:53
I'm in New York like riding my bike to work every day, right?
37:56
So I get this job in Lake Tahoe and then I get back to New York
38:00
after three years. It's burning out there,
38:02
snowboarding, smoking pot. You know, it's like California
38:04
lifestyle. Rick Moonen hires me and we get
38:07
three stars in the New York Times in the New York restaurant
38:10
and Elizabeth Blau gives him a gig in Mandalay Bay and I get
38:14
tapped to be the chef to cuisine the Mandalay Bay.
38:17
There's a lot of side stories. We could talk about forever,
38:19
politics, ego with Rick and I in the beginning, 2 chefs.
38:23
But I realized when I had that opportunity with Rick that I
38:26
didn't have to worry about the limelight or be the main guy
38:29
anymore. I could focus on my cooking and
38:31
I was working behind a true celebrity chef who was on the
38:34
marquee on Las Vegas Blvd. in a name restaurant.
38:38
And we were getting invited to all these festivals.
38:40
And I learned how to pack out. I learned how to cryovac things.
38:44
I learned how to show up. I learned how to run the crew
38:47
and I was not distracted by the press or reviewers.
38:51
It was a it was a refreshing 3 year period.
38:54
And I'm in Las Vegas meeting every chef in the world because
38:57
it's a small community when you work out there.
38:59
And this was during the prime. And I watched like I, I re
39:02
helped Rick restructure his deal with Mandalay Bay was sold to
39:06
MGM Grand. Rick was under the table for
39:10
like $2,000,000 and he had to surrender his lease to MGM Grand
39:13
and then work a salary deal, a licensing deal.
39:17
And I found out what these licensing deals were about and
39:19
how the casino and the hotel, they partner with you, they take
39:24
your name, your product, your energy, your menu, your persona
39:28
and they create this thing around you.
39:30
It's a gift. It's a true gift.
39:32
So I learned that I was like, for me that was like wanderlust.
39:35
I was just looking up at these guys, like how do I become Tom
39:38
Coleckio? I was on a show with him, but
39:40
look, and this guy's on the fucking billboard now and this
39:43
guy's on a billboard, like how do I get there?
39:45
Right? So I just hung in there, work
39:47
for Rick, work for Rick. Then a headhunter came and said
39:51
Dean Fairing is moving on from the mansion on Turtle Creek.
39:55
It's been an argument with Rosewood.
39:57
Danny Alberts and Missus Hunt disagree.
40:01
Danny's stealing Dean and taking him to the Ritz because this was
40:04
the time where Ritz and every city was doing a new Ritz.
40:07
And they were taking the biggest chef in that city and trying to
40:09
put them in their hotel like Tracy Desjardins in San
40:11
Francisco, blah, blah, blah. Wherever that was like
40:15
especially in a secondary market, it was to to keep people
40:18
on property. That's what we're here for.
40:20
It's like our hotel restaurants are to make sure that it's not a
40:24
hotel restaurant. And then if you come to Dallas,
40:27
you want to stay at the Highland Hotel because you're going to
40:29
get that 240 dry aged steak that you've been reading around for
40:32
all these years, or even a 120 or even taste 44 farms for the
40:36
first time and learn the difference.
40:38
But the key was when guys like Tom and these other hotels that
40:43
I was now working for were asking for $400,000, they were
40:46
asking for astronomical amounts to license these restaurants.
40:50
And I would go to the Rosewood guys and go like, I just got
40:53
five stars. Why don't you put me in the, you
40:56
know, why don't we go over there and use my name And I'll do it
40:58
for, I'll do it for free, right? Just give me some more money,
41:02
you know, So I started hanging that shingle out there and then
41:05
I, I started going to every food festival in the country.
41:08
I'd made those bones with Rick. And then I was at the mansion.
41:11
I had a platform and I pressed on my relationship with Rick and
41:15
the people I had met on the road.
41:16
Like the only reason I got invited to Pebble Beach Food and
41:18
wine is because I did tomato fest 2 years in a row.
41:21
You know, this is another thing kids don't expect or understand
41:24
is like, my advice is to work. Put your head down and and love
41:29
to cook. I know that sounds like so like
41:31
old man get off my lawn ship, but it's not because the only
41:35
way you're going to sustain and I've been doing this for 45
41:37
years and I've never had another job.
41:39
OK, and I'm. Doing.
41:40
Pretty well these days. But for the majority of my life,
41:43
I live paycheck to paycheck in fear of what's going to happen.
41:46
And I'm still at 66 years old with five restaurants.
41:49
One of them I own myself and two other deals on the table.
41:53
I'm in the restaurant business. I live through the pandemic.
41:56
I've been broke. I've closed restaurants.
41:58
That stuff can go away in 30 seconds, as you well know.
42:02
No matter how famous you are or how good you are, a restaurant
42:05
can tank in 2 minutes unless you take care of it like it's a part
42:08
of you, you know? And that's I don't want 30
42:11
restaurants. Even with the five I have now, I
42:13
struggle because I give away a lot of control.
42:16
But if you find good people and you communicate with them and
42:20
you mentor them and you let them be free, you let them make their
42:24
own mistakes. Everything doesn't have to be
42:26
about you. You create a team and you get a
42:29
Michelin star and you need a pastry chef.
42:31
That's another thing, America, you know, if you want a Michelin
42:35
star, you better start hiring pastry chefs again, not making
42:38
the dishwasher. Make the molten chocolate cake
42:41
with a little or thinking that bread puddings going to get by,
42:44
you know, get you a star because it's not and you need Maynard DS
42:47
and all this other stuff. I don't I I like I said, I don't
42:49
have the list of criteria. Creme Brulee.
42:53
Creme brulee, pot of cream and some ice cream from the Yeah
42:56
cheesecake. From somewhere with Oreos on it,
42:58
whatever. But you know what I mean That
43:00
that that. Does not a Michelin star
43:02
restaurant make? And I don't I don't mean to hurt
43:03
anybody's feelings. I don't Oh, I wanted to ask you
43:06
about your. Organizational structure.
43:07
That's right. So, so now that you have all
43:10
these restaurants, you have a little bit of an empire, but I
43:12
mean quite the empire compared to compared to a lot of chefs,
43:15
right? For me, it's an empire.
43:16
It's a it's. An empire, right?
43:17
So what is your what does your brigade look like?
43:20
How many people are on the team? Not, I'm not, I'm not talking
43:22
about the people that work in the restaurants, but the people
43:24
that help you run the Empire. OK.
43:27
It's not me, myself and I, but it's pretty close because this
43:30
is the way I wanted to do it. And this is what I learned from
43:33
what we were talking about in Vegas and all of these things
43:36
and having 22 restaurants because if you have 22
43:40
restaurants, guess what? You need an office, you need a
43:42
director of operations, you need XY and Z and those people and
43:47
you got to cut up that pie with you got to start cutting that
43:49
pie up with all those people too.
43:51
So you get this thirst. I got to have more restaurants.
43:53
It's like, you know, I got to have something here in this
43:55
mall. I got to have it in that mall.
43:57
I got to that. That's not me.
43:59
That is not me. I want a good life.
44:02
I want to be able to maintain what I can do and have hands on
44:07
control. So I literally run the company.
44:09
I have one lady that does invoices for me.
44:12
I have two PR companies, one of them paid for by the hotel, one
44:15
of them paid for by my organization.
44:17
So if that comes out of my take and then I have an accountant
44:21
and a lawyer and and George is kind of my director of
44:25
operations slash partner. I gave him the restaurant in
44:28
Plano, which was given to me by Starwood.
44:31
So George wants to stick with it in that restaurant.
44:34
You know, it's it's a knife restaurant.
44:35
I'm affiliated with it. You know, George is my partner
44:38
there, but it's his restaurant. He's really, you know, post
44:42
pandemic, he's really the mall being in receivership.
44:46
They're going to cut it in half and make it more like legacy.
44:49
He's had to survive a lot of stuff to go through there.
44:51
So like that, that's who I really rely on for numbers, you
44:55
know, and for political information and what I mean by
44:58
politics, like permits and, you know, talking to the Board of
45:01
Health and stuff like that. And then the hotels kind of do
45:04
all of that. They have to do that themselves.
45:05
That's the greatest gift of all is like if you could put a John
45:08
T Czar restaurant in a Ritz Carlton or a Four Seasons or a
45:11
blah, blah, blah. And I'm in a hotel already.
45:14
I'm, I'm looking better because the they have the servers, they
45:18
have the uniform, they have the money and they have the
45:19
reputation and they need to live up to their reputation.
45:23
I'm an accent to that. I'm just a partner.
45:26
I'm like the salt on top of the, the steak for all of them, you
45:29
know, And if I can make money for them and keep people in the
45:32
hotel and attract them and serve better than average food or
45:36
great food, then I'm doing my job.
45:38
And that's all it is. That's there's nothing glamorous
45:40
about it. So I.
45:42
I left cooking two years ago. I I left, I say I retired but
45:46
it's only 'cause I don't ever want to be anyones employee like
45:48
I. I just, I'm done being an
45:50
employee. There's nothing wrong with it,
45:51
if I would ever. Go back.
45:52
In I have no desire to open up a restaurant just because I I know
45:55
what happens shortly after you open an independent restaurant,
45:58
you close it, but. A licensing.
46:01
Deal would be something that eventually, you know, if someone
46:04
came at me and and you know threw one of these licensing
46:06
agreements at me, I would definitely consider it,
46:08
especially because I only want to do like side quest now.
46:10
So if someone said hey and we want to try and get a mission
46:12
start, no guarantee that we get it might fucking spend all this
46:14
money and it might come up with nothing, but I would consider it
46:19
anyway. So I guess that's neither here
46:22
nor there. That's a rant, but if someone
46:25
was asking, hey, I'm going to maybe get a licensing deal, what
46:28
are three things that I need to make sure I look at before I
46:30
sign anything? OK, first number one.
46:33
Before you think you're going to get a licensing deal, you either
46:38
have to be a superstar on television or you have to be
46:42
someone like Tyson Cole who created something that he
46:47
basically owns, you know, being the first, you know, Anglo
46:52
Japanese educated Japanese restaurant in one of America's
46:56
major cities and doing it to a level and then taking it to
47:00
Uchico and all these other things.
47:02
So that's something that nobody else or somebody else would have
47:05
difficulty replicating. And he worked really hard on
47:09
owning that. Now I was, I've been a chef my
47:12
whole life. I've cooked seafood and then all
47:14
of a sudden I became this steak guy, right?
47:17
Because I've I saw the difference in the flavor of 44
47:19
farms and I discovered this dry aging process, which people
47:23
still don't really understand and they take for granted.
47:26
But that's what makes knife different is like when Ritz
47:30
Carlton's GM and 35 year employed French chef who's
47:36
worked at Tour de Arjon like and now is in America comes to eat
47:40
my steak and he goes, there's a difference.
47:44
So that's you have to be honest with yourself.
47:46
Do you have something other than, hey, I'm on a show with XY
47:51
and Z and I'm popular enough that people might want to come
47:54
to my restaurant, but I'm not going to have anything to do
47:56
with it? You can take that route, sure,
47:59
but I don't, I think that's worse than an independent
48:01
restaurant because you're never going to be there.
48:03
You have no control and you kind of just dial it in for a check
48:06
and that's going to come back to bite you in the ass one day.
48:09
I don't care who you are. You know, people don't pay a lot
48:11
of attention. They have short attention spans.
48:13
But for me, I don't go to restaurants like that because I,
48:16
just because someone's name's on the sign doesn't mean you're
48:19
going to get a good meal. Myself, my own restaurants
48:21
included, you know, I have to retool my stuff constantly with
48:24
the employees and the changeover, you know, So it's
48:27
like once you have something special and unique and you have
48:30
to be honest with yourself and trust me, the businessmen are
48:33
going to be the guys that tell you that you, you, if you could
48:36
go out and say, Hey, I want a license.
48:37
Hey, look at me. Hey, look at me.
48:38
Hey, look at me. It's just I did it by
48:40
conversation and hard work and a plan.
48:44
When I went on reality tvi. It wasn't to become famous.
48:48
It wasn't to become a bad guy or to be a smart aleck or not even
48:52
to show people how to cook. It was to get my relevance back
48:56
as an older chef against a generation of charging younger
49:00
chefs who are absorbed in television and, and sucking up
49:04
the oxygen and everything that chefs do, while those of us who
49:07
work in kitchens our whole lives are getting passed over because
49:11
they're on television. So I felt like the only way I
49:14
would survive is to jump into that arena.
49:17
And that magazine article helped me, you know, so like, even
49:20
sometimes you have to go through uncomfortable moments.
49:23
You're not going to win every time.
49:25
You're not going to get a great review every time.
49:27
But you know, for me, that's the shit that motivated me.
49:30
That's the stuff that said, hey, you know what?
49:31
I needed that slap in the face. I need to go take a look at who
49:35
I am and make myself a better person, a better chef, better
49:38
businessman. And then people notice that.
49:41
And then when you're putting out a unique product, when you're
49:44
mature, even though you could be like me, outspoken, different
49:48
than most people, very not businesslike in the sense that I
49:52
walk to the beat of my own drum. But I cook my ass off and I
49:55
still cook today. And when I don't cook, I get
49:58
depressed. You know, I need to be on that
50:00
line. I need to be involved, I need to
50:02
be evolving, but at the same time, I'm not unrealistic about
50:05
who I am as a chef, what I create and what I'm capable of.
50:09
And there's a ceiling to my, to my capabilities.
50:12
You know what I mean? I, I have a specific genre.
50:14
I stay in it. I work it hard and I'm authentic
50:17
to it. And I think that resonates with
50:19
the public. You know, I don't need to be the
50:21
next guy to create the thing that, you know, fall, whatever,
50:24
whatever it is. I don't want to hurt anybody's
50:26
feelings. Not the next chocolate pinata,
50:27
exactly. Balloon.
50:30
Edible balloon. Who knows?
50:31
God sorry, Grant. All right, chef.
50:33
So a lot of people. That listen, they're they're
50:34
looking for advice. So if they're a young culinary
50:37
and culinary school green about to join the industry, what are
50:41
some things that you want to guide them right now that maybe
50:44
you wish you knew back in the day?
50:48
The world is different than when I work because when I worked,
50:50
you had to like show up every day, you had to work sick.
50:53
And if you took a day off, someone would probably take your
50:55
job, you know, and, and again, that doesn't exist anymore.
50:58
So I just so from my point of reference, I always have that,
51:01
but I've had to adapt and move on to the world, move forward
51:04
with the way the world is and the way the hospitality business
51:07
has developed. But I still think the, the, the
51:10
best advice you could have is come humble, come with an open
51:14
mind, ask questions, be clean, be neat, be considerate, be
51:21
respectful and learn as much as you can, experiment as much as
51:27
you can without screwing up the restaurant or your own
51:30
reputation, But realistically, and stay based in the classics
51:35
and follow chefs that you want to be like, you know, but
51:38
realize that it doesn't happen overnight.
51:40
You know, I've been doing this for 45 years.
51:41
I don't, I don't know how many people have been doing it that
51:43
long, you know, And I think that that's the one thing that I'm
51:46
most proud of is I've been doing this for 45 years and I am now
51:53
on the landing pad that I saw myself one day going to like,
51:58
you know, I could have had regrets and said, well, if I
52:01
cleaned up my ACT, if I wasn't such a smart ass or whatever, I
52:04
wasn't so immature at times, would I have been this 10 years
52:07
ago? I, I don't care because I'm
52:10
still here. I'm 66.
52:12
I'm not going anywhere. I'm, I'm cooking.
52:15
I'm healthy. Look at me.
52:16
I mean, I'm, I'm youthful. I'm I got another good 20 in
52:19
this biz, buddy. So.
52:20
And now the Michelin's here. Yeah, I have a little
52:22
experience. I'm going to retool my
52:24
restaurants. I'm going to try to get a
52:25
Michelin star back in Florida. And in 18 to 24 months,
52:29
hopefully we're going to give it a shot here in Texas.
52:31
You know, so, but those are just sidebar goals.
52:36
My goal is to make a living, be a good father, become a better
52:40
person and be better at my job every day.
52:42
That's all. And you know, from the business
52:44
structure point of view, you just got to put your head down
52:47
and be in touch with yourself. Be honest with yourself, look at
52:51
your peers, cook for people, get their intake.
52:54
You know, have people taste things.
52:57
Don't don't come up with all these wild ideas all of a sudden
52:59
because you think it's going to get you attention or you're
53:01
good. Master the classics.
53:04
I, I work in a restaurant, a steakhouse where I think only
53:08
two people know how to make Bernay sauce.
53:11
And to me that's just like, are you shitting me?
53:14
You know what I mean? Or like they, they're just
53:16
replicating things that from 1985 and I'm, I'm the one that's
53:19
66 doing the progressive cooking, you know, and, or, or
53:23
it's so far out there that no one's going to relate to it.
53:27
I, this is where I am just like, I, this is where I get the
53:30
asshole reputation from because I'm going to be like, no, yes,
53:34
yes, do it. There's no, there's no secret
53:38
recipe. There's no secret trick.
53:40
It's in here. It's here and here.
53:43
And then it's what you've learned, what you can taste.
53:47
You know, I'm very lucky that I'm born with a palate that has,
53:51
that allows me to taste things I think a little differently than
53:53
most people. Because my best advice to
53:56
anybody is anything you cook, just make it taste good.
54:00
It doesn't matter what it looks like.
54:01
If you ate it in the dark, would you want to go back for a second
54:04
bite, right? Because looking at it is one
54:06
thing, right? And I, we, that Instagram
54:10
bullshit photo thing about food is so old already flowers on
54:13
everything. You know, it's like, go for it.
54:14
If that's what you need, go for it.
54:17
And I want my shit to look good too, You know what I mean?
54:19
Especially when you're in an event and everybody's got, they
54:21
break out the bouquets and they're sprinkling dust and
54:24
flowers and shit and meanwhile it's just a salmon in a bowl.
54:28
All that other stuff is just there for the visual effect and,
54:32
and the customers go, oh, and ha.
54:34
Meanwhile, you could cook the most perfectly cooked piece of
54:37
fish that was in the water 10 minutes ago, sprinkle a little
54:40
mold on salt with some great olive oil that's personal to you
54:44
or wherever that fish came from or with something relative to
54:47
it. And it'll be better than any of
54:48
those things that we just spent 20 minutes plating.
54:53
You know, for me, that's the advice.
54:55
Is that like Mother Nature is the chef.
54:59
Like Marco says, I am just the purveyor of Mother Nature's
55:04
wonderful provides, and if I can be as simple and direct and and
55:10
respectful to that product, yet also interesting, then you're
55:14
going to come and eat my food. When, when I remember.
55:17
We went to spoon and I, I'll, I'll never forget because we
55:21
were, it was me and my killer. We were sitting at the counter
55:24
and you were cooking and I'll never forget that.
55:26
I was like, man, you were back. I don't remember how many cooks
55:29
you had there, but I think maybe it's like 3 or 4.
55:31
But you were back there stirring and cooking and I was like, man,
55:34
you still love it. You still love it, and you
55:36
still. Cook like a like back then a 20.
55:38
One year old line cooked with octopus arms and I'm going to do
55:41
that. This is everyone be warned when
55:43
I redo knife Steak and seafood, I'm bringing spoon to knife in
55:49
Dallas because Michelin's coming, because it's been 10
55:52
years, because I'm bored, you know, just being administrator
55:56
or a mentor. And I want to cook my way out,
55:59
you know, at least for a few more years, you know, and so,
56:02
and that's not to impress anybody.
56:03
That's for me, you know, but I'm going to do that whole seafood
56:06
thing again. And, and, and it's just more
56:09
than steak, you know, I really want to focus on the steaks.
56:11
I want to we're going to renovate the restaurant.
56:14
We're putting a new bar in, putting a floor in the
56:16
restaurant, new lights, we have new logos.
56:19
Everything's going to be new. And we're actually going to
56:20
announce that I'm closing knife after 11 years and then
56:23
reopening as Knife, Steak and seafood.
56:26
This will be January, mid January.
56:29
We have, we have to wait through the holiday season for the
56:31
renovation. It's done up.
56:32
This is another thing you ask me who I work for.
56:35
I work for hedge fund guys and hotel guys because they write
56:38
the checks. So yeah, there you go.
56:39
It's a partnership. But he with the big checkbook is
56:41
the boss. When I think back to spoon back
56:45
then, so I was like 2013 ish, right?
56:48
It was probably the best restaurant in Dallas.
56:50
Like I, I could say that now 'cause I mean back then I had a
56:52
restaurant too that I was trying to make the best.
56:54
But when I look back in retrospect, because I can say it
56:57
now, it was the best restaurant in Dallas.
56:59
It was it was a shame because I thought I remember I ate there
57:02
and I was like, this is like a little of Bernadin in, in, in in
57:07
Dallas at the time. It was great.
57:08
It was the best meal I had. It should still be there it.
57:11
Should still be there. It was just a business.
57:14
Bad business decisions, a bad group of partners that didn't
57:17
understand the dynamics. And that's another thing it's
57:20
like, you know, if you're gonna get into business, know you're
57:22
getting into business with, yeah, you know, and go through
57:25
that contract and get it written down.
57:27
Yeah, don't. Don't be afraid to get an
57:29
accountant and a lawyer, right? Accountant and a lawyer, but.
57:31
Lawyer. First accountant you can hold
57:34
off on the account till you make money you know you start your
57:36
LLC or whatever with you can do that online yourself for 249
57:40
bucks if you know what you're doing as long as you pay your
57:41
franchise tax and now you have to also file your for the
57:45
criminal, I think the corporate criminal there's an office now
57:48
that just makes sure you're you're doing everything right
57:50
yeah how do you. Recognize talent so young cook
57:54
in the kitchen what do they do that you immediately say OK they
57:57
got it right you know like when you.
58:00
Watch a basketball game or a track meet or baseball.
58:03
There's guys you just see have moves or they have a stride.
58:06
I see the way someone works first, how they come dressed
58:11
right, how they set up their station, and then when the
58:15
kitchen is operating, how they fit into that position.
58:19
Do you know like within? Minutes I I can tell right away.
58:23
I mean, I'm, I'm a line cook, you know, I'm a chef, but I'm
58:25
first and foremost the line cook.
58:27
I work my way through that. I've always been a cooking chef,
58:32
you know, so I, I, I relate more to lion cooks than I do to
58:35
bureaucrats or clipboard guys. I've always had a great
58:39
executive sous chef like Eric Brandt did all the paperwork and
58:42
the scheduling and there's always someone doing paperwork
58:45
because I'm not doing it. So, so that's just who I am.
58:48
I'm, you know, I'm a chef chef. I actually get joy out of
58:51
putting something together that was cooked precisely that I know
58:55
the customer is going to enjoy. Last two questions, Chef.
58:58
If you had a chef's PSA out there.
59:00
So cooks, stop doing this or start doing this right now.
59:05
Start Stop complaining, number one.
59:10
No matter what's going on, stop complaining and then start
59:15
reading Escaffier and you know it's real class.
59:22
Dive deep into classic cuisine, no matter what it is, even if
59:26
it's Greek or Italian or French. It doesn't have to be, but study
59:30
the classics and study sauce making sauce making everyone.
59:34
It's a dying art. I'm telling you they're
59:36
fermenters now I'm. A saucier and.
59:39
I think I'm still 1. Of the few.
59:40
Left other than in Danielle's organization or like you know,
59:44
at a very fancy restaurant. So if you're want to make your
59:47
bones as a young chef and really make an impact on the kitchen or
59:50
your own restaurant, study sauces of all types.
59:54
You know, all international, not just French sauces, all types of
59:58
sauces. If you had a mount.
59:59
Rushmore of four chefs. In your time as a.
1:00:03
Chef. If you had, if you had to put
1:00:04
four chefs up on Mount Rushmore, who's there?
1:00:07
Oh, Andre Solder. Because for me, he was like the
1:00:10
man back then John George, who I think he's the most talented
1:00:15
chef I've ever seen in my entire life.
1:00:18
I'll throw Thomas Keller in there because he is very
1:00:21
successful, super talented, hard working visionary.
1:00:25
And then Danielle, just because he's the greatest.
1:00:27
You know, they're all, they're all equally talented.
1:00:30
I think they have different talents, but they're all great
1:00:34
restaurant tours. They're all extremely successful
1:00:38
and that's what you should try to emulate, but not be resentful
1:00:41
that they have a lot more than you do because they earned it
1:00:44
and they made business deals and they worked.
1:00:46
And, you know, Danielle lost the star at Danielle.
1:00:48
He was a three star that was a two star, you know, but he goes
1:00:50
on, you know, and he opened up another, you know, like it's you
1:00:53
got to pick and choose what you want and just go for it.
1:00:56
But really, I want to say one thing before I leave.
1:00:59
If you want to be ATV chef, be ATV chef, right?
1:01:03
But you can't be ATV chef full time and then open a restaurant
1:01:07
because it doesn't work. And you can't tell me that it
1:01:10
does work, you know, under very unique situations.
1:01:12
And those people know who I'm talking about.
1:01:14
Stay on TV, Great. Make all the money in your
1:01:16
world. But stop calling yourself a
1:01:18
chef. You're an entertainer.
1:01:20
And I'm not talking about Bobby or Guy even.
1:01:22
Yeah, I'm talking about a younger generation that just
1:01:24
wanted to be on TV and they use chefing to get there.
1:01:27
God bless it. But you know, where's your
1:01:30
restaurant? Where's your chops every night?
1:01:32
Where's your interaction with the guest?
1:01:34
I don't. I don't care if you can judge a
1:01:36
contest. Or, you know, half that shit is
1:01:38
bullshit anyway. You know, that's why Bobby wins
1:01:41
all the time. Yeah.
1:01:43
Chef, it was a true pleasure to see you.
1:01:46
I think you know legend, like I said earlier, you're someone
1:01:51
that came to me when I needed it and cheered me up and pulled me
1:01:54
out of a hole that I was in. And for that I am forever
1:01:57
grateful. It's good to see you and I'm I'm
1:02:01
glad to see that you're still cooking on the line and and
1:02:05
opening restaurants and and still shining chef.
1:02:07
So thank you so much. Thanks.
1:02:09
Thank you so much for being on the show and where can people
1:02:11
find you? I appreciate it.
1:02:12
You can find. Me, I don't know, everywhere but
1:02:16
John tezar.com and then Chef John Tezar on Instagram,
1:02:20
Facebook, but you know, I'm around.
1:02:24
You can come and talk to me. I don't.
1:02:26
I don't bite and I'm definitely not an asshole.
1:02:29
Good seeing you, brother. You too, Ben.
1:02:30
Well, I hope you enjoyed the show.
1:02:32
If you want to support everything that we're doing at
1:02:33
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1:02:37
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1:02:49
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1:02:52
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1:02:54
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1:02:57
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1:03:01
Let me know you think of this episode.
1:03:03
Comment down below. We'll see you next week.
1:03:05
Hit the porno music in. The kitchen.
1:03:12
No fiction. Listen close classes in session.