Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Missing Women, Philly House Of Horrors! Dissolving Bodies & Snuff Films

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Missing Women, Philly House Of Horrors! Dissolving Bodies & Snuff Films · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: I've let on in the past that I have worked
0:15
Speaker 1: serial homicides. It's not really a lot different for me,
0:22
Speaker 1: at least, than working any other kind of homicide, except
0:26
Speaker 1: for recognized patterns. And scientifically, you know, those are things
0:30
Speaker 1: that we look for in science anyway. But, you know,
0:33
Speaker 1: there is a bit of, I don't know what the
0:36
Speaker 1: word is. I think Elon, if you will, is people
0:40
Speaker 1: that involve themselves in serial killings. And that it's something very,
0:45
Speaker 1: very special. And that it gets all of the ink
0:48
Speaker 1: slung about it. But at the end of the day,
0:51
Speaker 1: you're still talking about one human being taking the life
0:55
Speaker 1: of another. Now, over the course of my career in
0:59
Speaker 1: the field, though I did work multiple serial homicides, you know,
1:06
Speaker 1: I never worked one where the deaths necessarily took place
1:12
Speaker 1: in one location where bodies may have been processed. And
1:16
Speaker 1: I mean that on like the dark side. And everything
1:22
Speaker 1: happened within the environment. Maybe even the bodies were contained there.
1:25
Speaker 1: I never worked on those. I never did, you know.
1:30
Speaker 1: But today on Body Bites, we're actually going to dig
1:35
Speaker 1: into a case that has recently exploded in the news.
1:40
Speaker 1: And my friends, let me tell you, when I say
1:42
Speaker 1: we are at the beginning of this thing, we are
1:46
Speaker 1: literally at the beginning of this thing. So today, my co-host,
1:52
Speaker 1: Brother Dave, and I, we're going to do our best
1:55
Speaker 1: to be your tour guide. along the way, thinking about
2:00
Speaker 1: those events that have happened at the so-called House of
2:05
Speaker 1: Horrors in Philly. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is
2:13
Speaker 1: Body Bags. Brother Dave, there are certain things, you know,
2:19
Speaker 1: that you do along your career. It doesn't matter what
2:23
Speaker 1: kind of career it is. If it's like a a
2:26
Speaker 1: career where you're really focused on like professional achievement and
2:29
Speaker 1: all these sorts of things, there are certain little road
2:32
Speaker 1: stops along the way that you want to, you want
2:34
Speaker 1: to make. I think guys in particular, you know, we
2:37
Speaker 1: kind of have that mapped out in our brain. That's
2:39
Speaker 1: where our brains work. I want to work here. I
2:41
Speaker 1: want to do this. I want to have experience with this.
2:44
Speaker 1: It's no different in death investigation. You know, you, you
2:48
Speaker 1: want to catch, and I've actually had people say this
2:50
Speaker 1: to me and I, I had, many times I've had
2:53
Speaker 1: to pause and question my own sanity and, And this
2:56
Speaker 1: is why, because I'd be having a conversation with someone
3:00
Speaker 1: and they would throw up to me about some gruesome
3:04
Speaker 1: case that they had seen on the news or even
3:07
Speaker 1: something that, you know, one of my students would come
3:09
Speaker 1: up with and they would say, this is awful. And
3:13
Speaker 1: I would say, wow, I wish I could. I wish
3:15
Speaker 1: I'd worked that case. I wish I'd caught it. And
3:17
Speaker 1: they kind of they kind of recoil when you say that, like.
3:20
Speaker 1: What do you mean? It's like, I'm not a normal person.
3:23
Speaker 2: At dinner parties, people will come up to Joe and say,
3:27
Speaker 2: what is the most disgusting thing you've ever seen? I mean,
3:30
Speaker 2: you're sitting there over, you know, shrimp and prime rib,
3:33
Speaker 2: and you want me to tell you right now, or
3:35
Speaker 2: you want to wait until after? I mean, they want
3:37
Speaker 2: it now. I've been there with him in a group
3:39
Speaker 2: where they're hinting at it.
3:42
Speaker 1: They are. You ever notice that they kind of, You know,
3:46
Speaker 1: people like to rub up against it a little bit,
3:48
Speaker 1: you know, and they don't know how to approach you.
3:51
Speaker 1: It's a weird kind of awkwardness. Now, I got to
3:55
Speaker 1: tell you, I got to tell you, I think that
3:58
Speaker 1: because we have seen such an explosion in true crime,
4:02
Speaker 1: people are not as hesitant as they once were. And
4:06
Speaker 1: I know that you experience this on the media side too,
4:09
Speaker 1: don't you?
4:10
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. The one thing that we try to do,
4:12
Speaker 2: and Joe and I both came to this Our own paths.
4:16
Speaker 2: But it was that we can't forget the victims. We
4:21
Speaker 2: the victims always get forgotten. And we remember that we
4:25
Speaker 2: remember the sickos. We remember the Coburgers and the Bundys.
4:28
Speaker 2: We remember them, but we can't name their victims. And
4:31
Speaker 2: I'm tired of that. So from the very first time
4:34
Speaker 2: I was ever on the Nancy Grace show. my thought
4:37
Speaker 2: was I have to give a voice to this nine-year-old
4:40
Speaker 2: child who was run to death by her grandmother. I
4:42
Speaker 2: have to do that. Horrible, horrible case. Oh yeah. And
4:45
Speaker 2: that was my whole intention then. And it continues to
4:48
Speaker 2: be now. And I actually find some fulfillment in that
4:50
Speaker 2: in providing a voice, you know, and that's something that
4:53
Speaker 2: you've taught me on this side of things, because to
4:56
Speaker 2: be honest with you, Joe, a lot of times crimes
4:59
Speaker 2: get solved and we don't know why we don't know
5:02
Speaker 2: how they solved it. And by the way, the one
5:05
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about today, Joe said we're at
5:09
Speaker 2: the beginning. We don't even know how many victims we
5:12
Speaker 2: have yet. I've got four names, only two that I'm
5:16
Speaker 2: sure of right this minute as we begin this story.
5:19
Speaker 2: It's out of Philadelphia, and it's from an area inside
5:22
Speaker 2: of Philadelphia. A lot of cities have areas that have
5:25
Speaker 2: a name, and this one is the Olney neighborhood. Olney, O-L-N-E-Y, okay?
5:32
Speaker 1: Okay.
5:33
Speaker 2: And so I was trying to find a way that
5:36
Speaker 2: I can identify with it because I'm not from there.
5:38
Speaker 2: And I don't want to offend anybody for getting it wrong.
5:41
Speaker 2: But the only house murders is the only way I
5:43
Speaker 2: could come up with being able to identify who we're
5:45
Speaker 2: talking about here. And we have years, maybe decades of
5:53
Speaker 2: some of the most horrific activities that could have possibly
5:57
Speaker 2: taken place. And we're talking about women. who've been missing.
6:05
Speaker 2: And well, I'll tell you, you know what, Joe, you
6:08
Speaker 2: know how we always do the, this story begins with
6:11
Speaker 2: a welfare check on a person.
6:13
Speaker 1: Right.
6:13
Speaker 2: All right. How many times do we see now, if
6:18
Speaker 2: you guys have a guilty pleasure like I do of
6:19
Speaker 2: watching police cam videos where people comment about people going crazy?
6:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
6:24
Speaker 2: You know, and now it's like you get pulled over
6:26
Speaker 2: for doing 95 and a 35 and I want to
6:28
Speaker 2: see your supervisor. Yeah. Give me your, give me your
6:31
Speaker 2: driver's license and your registration. I got Joe. I'm ready
6:37
Speaker 2: to go through the screen and take somebody down to
6:39
Speaker 2: DMV and say, if you don't teach these people, if
6:42
Speaker 2: the cop says, give me your license and registration, you
6:44
Speaker 2: give them your license and registration. You don't roll up
6:46
Speaker 2: the window.
6:46
Speaker 1: No, it's pretty simple stuff. It is. But you know,
6:50
Speaker 1: life gets very complicated for whatever reason. I don't understand.
6:53
Speaker 2: For some people.
6:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I guess they have too much leisure time
6:56
Speaker 1: on their hands. I have no explanation for it, but
6:59
Speaker 1: it does happen like that.
7:00
Speaker 2: I will tell you though, you know, when they always say,
7:02
Speaker 2: if you really want to win a fight, be aggressive,
7:04
Speaker 2: you know?
7:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
7:05
Speaker 2: I guess that's it. But I just have a thing
7:07
Speaker 2: about when a dude has a gun and a badge,
7:11
Speaker 2: if I have a chance to leave there without wearing bracelets,
7:14
Speaker 2: I'm going to do that.
7:15
Speaker 1: Good idea.
7:16
Speaker 2: Here's what happened. In this case, Joe, we have Eugene Horsch.
7:22
Speaker 2: Eugene's 44 years old. He's at a very specific location
7:25
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia, Independence Mall 6, the market. That's where he's
7:29
Speaker 2: sitting in his BMW, and there's a woman in there.
7:32
Speaker 2: Somebody from the Park Service that's walking around Independence Hall,
7:35
Speaker 2: just making sure nothing's going wrong, hears a woman say,
7:40
Speaker 2: you're going to hurt me. Now, if a woman cries
7:45
Speaker 2: that out inside of a vehicle, it's going to draw
7:48
Speaker 2: the attention.
7:49
Speaker 1: Yes, it will.
7:50
Speaker 2: And it did. And when the police came to check, well,
7:54
Speaker 2: we've got Eugene Horsch. And Eugene Horsch has a bit
7:57
Speaker 2: of a record, and most of it fairly recently. By
8:00
Speaker 2: the way, this happened June 19th, Joe. In the last
8:04
Speaker 2: 12 months, Eugene Horsch has been in the bullseye of
8:08
Speaker 2: Philadelphia PD. Drug charges and a lot of other things
8:12
Speaker 2: that he's been popped for. So when they pull him up, oh,
8:16
Speaker 2: wait a minute, this guy's been arrested a lot lately.
8:18
Speaker 2: And now we've got a woman saying, hey, you're going
8:20
Speaker 2: to hurt me. We're going to have to check the car.
8:23
Speaker 2: And what do they find, Joe? Do they find probable
8:28
Speaker 2: cause to put the guy in handcuffs? You know, they do.
8:33
Speaker 2: And that's where this story explodes. It's from the inside
8:38
Speaker 2: of a BMW Independence Hall where a woman says, you're
8:43
Speaker 2: going to hurt me. And a park ranger says, I'm
8:46
Speaker 2: going to find out what's going on. Eugene Horsch has
8:49
Speaker 2: not been out of jail since. Inside the BMW, they
8:52
Speaker 2: had weapons. 38 caliber revolver. Taurus 40 cal. Semi-automatic pistol,
8:59
Speaker 2: which you're going to have to explain what that is
9:00
Speaker 2: to me because I don't really know. And the problem
9:02
Speaker 2: with these is you have a guy who's got criminal
9:04
Speaker 2: problems and the serial numbers have been. They didn't say
9:09
Speaker 2: like they were scrubbed, but they were obliterated.
9:11
Speaker 1: They were obliterated. Yeah.
9:13
Speaker 2: But on top of that, Joe, we got a fake
9:16
Speaker 2: DEA credential. Switchblade knives, which those are illegal. And then
9:22
Speaker 2: we got drugs. Going to throw in a little cocaine,
9:24
Speaker 2: a little fentanyl, some marijuana. But here's the kicker, Joe.
9:29
Speaker 2: Along with the fake DEA credentials and other things, this
9:35
Speaker 2: lady who said you're going to hurt me, well, she
9:39
Speaker 2: hands an ID over to law enforcement. And it's the
9:43
Speaker 2: ID for Blair Tanzelli. Blair Tanzelli has been missing since 2022.
9:52
Speaker 2: And the picture on this ID is not blair tonzelli
10:01
Speaker 2: it's this woman so you got a fake id in
10:03
Speaker 2: her hands using the identification of a woman who's missing.
10:07
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah this story this story takes a really
10:10
Speaker 1: dark turn very quickly And I want to go back,
10:13
Speaker 1: first off, big shout out to all my friends in Philly.
10:16
Speaker 1: I love Philly. I love going up there, and particularly
10:18
Speaker 1: the area where this occurred. I think you knew exactly
10:22
Speaker 1: where it was. I love history. One of my favorite
10:24
Speaker 1: places to go in this area was the site of
10:30
Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin's old home. And they had a spot marked
10:34
Speaker 1: on the ground that said, Benjamin Franklin's pretty. And it's where...
10:41
Speaker 1: the outhouse dumped into, and they had an entire glass
10:44
Speaker 1: case of everything that had been recovered out of his privy.
10:49
Speaker 1: They went down there, it's broken. There was like China
10:51
Speaker 1: dolls and broken crockery, spoons, there were coins, all kinds
10:58
Speaker 1: of stuff that had been, you know, because back then
11:00
Speaker 1: they would just dump things there. But, you know, when
11:03
Speaker 1: I think about this, if this is.
11:04
Speaker 2: You don't mean the appropriate term.
11:07
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't mean it like that.
11:08
Speaker 2: Wow.
11:09
Speaker 1: Uh, place, uh, place discard. Uh, we'll use that one.
11:13
Speaker 2: Um, do they still have Ben Franklin's, um, uh, tomb
11:16
Speaker 2: where you're like the, uh, uh, the, you know, in
11:19
Speaker 2: the cemetery where you have like the, they have the
11:21
Speaker 2: cement that covers his whole length of the castle.
11:23
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. If I remember correctly, I'm, I'm
11:26
Speaker 1: having a hard time recalling it. I get Philly and
11:28
Speaker 1: Boston confused. No offense to our friends in Boston. And again,
11:31
Speaker 1: one of my favorite cities to visit because I love history,
11:34
Speaker 1: but I visited the graveyards in Boston as well. I
11:37
Speaker 1: don't know that I actually visited them in, in Philly.
11:41
Speaker 1: I went to a lot of the history and we
11:42
Speaker 1: took my son there, but you know, the thing about
11:45
Speaker 1: it is it's, it's fascinating that you've got a parks
11:47
Speaker 1: police officer that's doing that. That's a, that's a federal
11:50
Speaker 1: police officer just so that everyone understands. Lots of power. Yeah.
11:55
Speaker 1: More than folks realize if you screw up at, at a,
12:02
Speaker 1: at a site that is policed by the feds, you're
12:06
Speaker 1: in a completely different realm at that point in time.
12:10
Speaker 1: And then to couple that with possession of narcotics and
12:13
Speaker 1: a firearm adjacent to this area. And not only does
12:18
Speaker 1: she have an ID that ties back to a, um,
12:23
Speaker 1: back to, uh, a missing woman. Here's, here is my
12:28
Speaker 1: kicker to you. It's the fact that, He's in possession
12:32
Speaker 1: of DEA credentials. Now, if you want to get on
12:36
Speaker 1: the map really quick with the feds, try that on
12:40
Speaker 1: for size. And they are going to look up your tailpipe,
12:45
Speaker 1: you know, with a magnifying glass.
12:47
Speaker 2: You know, the one thing I didn't add, Joe, is
12:50
Speaker 2: that on this fake DEA credentials, it carried a picture
12:56
Speaker 2: of Horsch and had a name. Eugene Frederick Steiner.
13:03
Speaker 1: Looking official. Yeah, and here's another problem. It's one thing
13:08
Speaker 1: to be in possession of a federal ID. Say you
13:14
Speaker 1: find one, you're walking around with it, and you're presenting yourself,
13:17
Speaker 1: and you haven't taken it and modified it at all.
13:20
Speaker 1: But when you get into it and you modify or
13:24
Speaker 1: present yourself, with an image, you put a fake name
13:29
Speaker 1: on it, and it's a DEA credential. First off, I
13:33
Speaker 1: want to know specifically, why is it DEA? Well, I'll
13:38
Speaker 1: put it to you this way, and here's just one
13:40
Speaker 1: of the possibilities so that our friends understand. I've worked
13:43
Speaker 1: with the DEA on cases, DEA, and I've worked with
13:47
Speaker 1: the DEA, but with the DEA, I've worked on cases
13:50
Speaker 1: with them over the years, which, you know, there were
13:52
Speaker 1: homicides involved and a lot of stuff. The first thing
13:56
Speaker 1: I thought, I got to tell you, when I heard this,
14:00
Speaker 1: I wonder if this guy's shaking down drug dealers. Because
14:03
Speaker 1: if you walk up to somebody on the street and
14:08
Speaker 1: you badge them, you've got a federal ID and you're armed.
14:14
Speaker 1: You know, he's carrying a semi-automatic or he's in possession
14:17
Speaker 1: of a revolver, a semi-automatic Taurus. I think you said
14:23
Speaker 1: it was a. 40 cal.
14:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's that like? Is that a big gun?
14:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the Taurus is Brazilian-made. This is a model
14:32
Speaker 1: of a Glock. Taurus, traditionally, it's not necessarily the same
14:37
Speaker 1: all the time, is a Brazilian-made manufacturer, and they use
14:44
Speaker 1: some of the same templates that Beretta uses in Italy.
14:47
Speaker 1: So you'll see, like, traditionally, you would see a Beretta...
14:54
Speaker 1: What is it? 92, which a Model 92, I think
14:59
Speaker 1: it's a Model 92, which actually became our service weapon.
15:03
Speaker 1: Our service guys carried Beretta M1, transitioned from the. 45 caliber.
15:11
Speaker 1: And you could find a Taurus that looked exactly like it.
15:16
Speaker 1: And there's connectivity between those two companies. I really don't
15:19
Speaker 1: understand it. But suffice it to say, it's a semi-automatic weapon.
15:23
Speaker 1: You know, and we've recently talked about a case involving semi-autos,
15:27
Speaker 1: but just reflectively, you know, you pull the trigger until
15:31
Speaker 1: it goes click, right? And so, or the slide is
15:36
Speaker 1: locked back and you can fire no longer. That's more
15:38
Speaker 1: accurate to say. And then with a revolver, that is
15:42
Speaker 1: what some people refer to as a wheel gun. So
15:44
Speaker 1: it's just going to rotate like this. 38 caliber. It's
15:49
Speaker 1: a rather robust medium-sized caliber that you could carry It actually,
15:54
Speaker 1: and if I can go one step further with this,
15:58
Speaker 1: that semi-automatic weapon sounds like a weapon you would carry
16:01
Speaker 1: on your hip. And if he's trying to play cop,
16:04
Speaker 1: guess what cops carry on their ankles? A compact. 38 revolver,
16:09
Speaker 1: and that's called the backup weapon. So that if you
16:13
Speaker 1: run out of ammo, you lose your weapon in a fight,
16:15
Speaker 1: or it fell out of the holster, you can always,
16:18
Speaker 1: you have a backup, you can pull out which is that.
16:21
Speaker 1: 38 caliber revolver, because sometimes they can be very, very compact.
16:25
Speaker 1: I've owned a couple of them, including compact. 357s as well.
16:29
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's, I see this picture, you know,
16:33
Speaker 1: now this gentleman, and I want to say this from
16:36
Speaker 1: the top, this guy has not been charged with homicide
16:40
Speaker 1: as of this recording. However, Dave, what a tale we
16:46
Speaker 1: have to tell following his arrest, because I got to
16:50
Speaker 1: tell you, you talk about opening up a dark chapter
16:55
Speaker 1: in Olney neighborhood of Philadelphia. Hang on to your hats, folks.
17:12
Speaker 1: So brother Dave, you know, we got this guy hanging
17:14
Speaker 1: out at the park with this woman who's got a
17:16
Speaker 1: fake ID and you know, she's making this proclamation that
17:23
Speaker 1: you're hurting me or you're going to hurt me. Where
17:26
Speaker 1: does this lead us at this point in time?
17:28
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm glad you mentioned about the federal
17:31
Speaker 2: cops or the, you know, everything that went into this,
17:34
Speaker 2: because as soon as they're done with the car, they've
17:40
Speaker 2: got drugs, fake IDs, fake DEA identification drugs. And so
17:48
Speaker 2: that leads them because I, I, I'm not sure exactly
17:51
Speaker 2: which one of these would lead back to the home address,
17:56
Speaker 2: but I'm guessing because, um, Eugene Horsch had been trying,
18:03
Speaker 2: he had been charged with some drug charges, um, previously
18:05
Speaker 2: to this. And I'm sure that it affected his bail
18:10
Speaker 2: on one of those charges or something. And so they
18:14
Speaker 2: were able to go and search his house. Now, um,
18:17
Speaker 2: he had been, and I'm trying to get this right because,
18:19
Speaker 2: you know, when you're dealing with federal charges and local charges, sometimes,
18:25
Speaker 2: and it happened in this case, the federal charges took
18:28
Speaker 2: precedent and they took these other ones away just to
18:30
Speaker 2: get them off the table because we don't want to
18:32
Speaker 2: deal with this right now. We got to deal with this.
18:35
Speaker 2: So they went into the house and so this, this
18:38
Speaker 2: trip to the park ended up putting Eugene Horsch in jail,
18:44
Speaker 2: in handcuffs, and it put Cops on the ground at
18:49
Speaker 2: his house where the House of Horrors is now in Olney, Philadelphia.
18:54
Speaker 2: The address is 417 West Chew Avenue and Chew as
19:01
Speaker 2: in masticate.
19:02
Speaker 1: OK.
19:03
Speaker 2: And so once they got inside the address, Joe.
19:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
19:09
Speaker 2: It was interesting because police had been there already and.
19:16
Speaker 2: After they finished this most recent, which by the way,
19:19
Speaker 2: this search began right then in June and went all
19:23
Speaker 2: the way through till now. They're still searching things there
19:27
Speaker 2: at that address.
19:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just checked. The tents are still up outside
19:31
Speaker 1: the house.
19:32
Speaker 2: That's what, so just that gives you all an idea
19:35
Speaker 2: of how much they're dealing with. But just to start
19:38
Speaker 2: with day one of the search, but I just wanted
19:41
Speaker 2: to get to this to point out that They have
19:45
Speaker 2: law enforcement has been at the house in the last
19:48
Speaker 2: 12 months prior to this. and the one thing they
19:52
Speaker 2: noticed in going back to the home now with this
19:55
Speaker 2: all on search warrant is that something had been changed
20:01
Speaker 2: some things inside the house have changed now they're not
20:04
Speaker 2: going to articulate that yet but there were things they
20:07
Speaker 2: saw and noted before that have been changed, which opens
20:12
Speaker 2: up another can of worms. Uh, but running down the list. Okay.
20:16
Speaker 2: When you start looking at, um, what law enforcement found,
20:21
Speaker 2: we're going to start with, um, well, Joe, where do
20:24
Speaker 2: you want to start with the, uh, the weapons? Uh,
20:27
Speaker 2: you want to start with, yeah, sure, sure. Well, because
20:30
Speaker 2: we've got weapons and drugs, um, and we've got pictures
20:34
Speaker 2: and videos, right? And it's those pictures and videos that
20:38
Speaker 2: actually have us doing this today. body bags.
20:42
Speaker 1: It looks like an ongoing criminal enterprise just on the
20:45
Speaker 1: surface of it, because keep in mind, they have alluded
20:51
Speaker 1: to the idea that there was some type of, they're
20:54
Speaker 1: referring to it as a grow operation, that there's some
20:58
Speaker 1: evidence that there was illicit horticulture going on. I didn't
21:02
Speaker 1: think I'd say that phrase today, as opposed to licit,
21:07
Speaker 1: but illicit Horticultural pursuits, let's put it to you that way,
21:13
Speaker 1: where he's growing, I'm assuming he's growing weed.
21:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
21:16
Speaker 1: I don't think he's growing the coca plant to try
21:20
Speaker 1: to render down cocaine. Philly wouldn't be a suitable climate
21:24
Speaker 1: for that. But I make fun. I'm just saying that.
21:28
Speaker 1: So now you talk about stacking charges because it's one
21:33
Speaker 1: thing to be in possession of drugs. Now you're involved
21:37
Speaker 1: in manufacturing of drugs with probably the intent to distribute. Oh,
21:41
Speaker 1: and by the by, you're also in possession of firearms,
21:46
Speaker 1: which automatically kicks us up to a federal case in
21:50
Speaker 1: most jurisdictions.
21:51
Speaker 2: Joe, I was looking at that list on the weapons
21:52
Speaker 2: side and it said that there were approximately 120 pieces
21:56
Speaker 2: of ballistic evidence. What does that mean? Is that a
22:00
Speaker 2: term you've ever used?
22:02
Speaker 1: No, I've not used it. I've seen it in print though.
22:05
Speaker 1: And here's, here's probably what they're saying. When they say
22:08
Speaker 1: ballistic evidence, it could refer to potentially gun parts. And
22:18
Speaker 1: when you talk about, and here's something else too, I'm
22:21
Speaker 1: wondering if this guy may have been trying to convert
22:24
Speaker 1: weapons from semi to full. And you talk about, getting
22:29
Speaker 1: the attention of feds, particularly our friends over at ATF. Well,
22:33
Speaker 1: I say they're my friends. They're not necessarily my friends,
22:35
Speaker 1: but it's going to put you on their radar as well.
22:42
Speaker 1: And I don't know this to be a fact. I'm
22:44
Speaker 1: just saying when they find this much stuff there, that
22:48
Speaker 1: means that there could be other things out on the
22:50
Speaker 1: street that he's had his hands on. Because if he's
22:54
Speaker 1: got a grow operation, well, it's not too much of
22:56
Speaker 1: an intellectual leap to say, okay, maybe he's into dealing
23:02
Speaker 1: in weapons too. Now, from an investigative standpoint, that's something
23:06
Speaker 1: that needs to be explored. Additionally, any weapon that they
23:12
Speaker 1: might find in that house, remember we recently talked about
23:16
Speaker 1: the ATF database. So if there have been, if there
23:21
Speaker 1: are any unsolved, we think a lot about DNA, when
23:25
Speaker 1: we talk about unsolved cases, our friends at Othram and
23:27
Speaker 1: all that. Different can of worms here. If there are
23:31
Speaker 1: cases in Philly, okay, or the surrounding area where you
23:37
Speaker 1: have gunfire-related death or a weapon that has been fired
23:42
Speaker 1: and they recovered that from an evidentiary standpoint, that round
23:46
Speaker 1: is going to be entered into the ATF National Database. Now,
23:51
Speaker 1: that's a forensic database that they don't have an actual
23:54
Speaker 1: weapon platform for. They know the caliber. They know the
23:58
Speaker 1: striations on the bullet because it's like a ballistic fingerprint.
24:01
Speaker 1: But holy moly, if they do test firing on any
24:04
Speaker 1: of these weapons and it comes back to, say, other
24:07
Speaker 1: crimes that are out there, again, I go back to
24:12
Speaker 1: thinking about stacking charges here. You know, you think the
24:17
Speaker 1: proverbial noose is like tightening.
24:19
Speaker 2: This is in the first seven days, Joe. Yeah. Because
24:23
Speaker 2: you just said the tents are still up at this address.
24:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, they are.
24:26
Speaker 2: And we're taping the show in the second half of August, okay?
24:29
Speaker 2: And this started on June 19th.
24:33
Speaker 1: This is a big structure, too. This is not a
24:35
Speaker 1: tiny house. Wow. You know, I mean, it's not. I mean,
24:39
Speaker 1: and I think it's like an attached, it's like a
24:41
Speaker 1: row house, but it's big, you know, when you see
24:44
Speaker 1: this thing. And Dave, we haven't even touched on this
24:48
Speaker 1: horrible finding where, you know, I got to tell you
24:51
Speaker 1: something real quick on a little aside. You rarely see
24:56
Speaker 1: a chief of police or a sheriff, when they stand
25:01
Speaker 1: at the podium and they've got that kind of, you know,
25:06
Speaker 1: thousand-yard stare in their air and in their eyes, and
25:09
Speaker 1: they're kind of shaking their head, and this guy says,
25:13
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm paraphrasing here, forgive me, but, you know,
25:16
Speaker 1: he looks out at the reporters and he's saying, I
25:21
Speaker 1: cannot even begin to describe to you what I have
25:25
Speaker 1: just borne witness to. And he alludes to the fact
25:29
Speaker 1: that this imagery that has been taken from the scene that,
25:35
Speaker 1: you know, that this individual was allegedly holding onto there, storing,
25:44
Speaker 1: he alludes to, the police chief actually alludes to the fact,
25:48
Speaker 1: he said, there's people dead. And, you know, so I
25:52
Speaker 1: don't know specifically yet. We will find out. I don't
25:57
Speaker 1: know specifically yet what they actually found in there, but
26:01
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear what you have to say.
26:03
Speaker 2: I'm glad you said that, Joe, because I was wondering,
26:05
Speaker 2: you know, we've watched a lot of press conferences together,
26:09
Speaker 2: you know, and rarely do you get them like this.
26:13
Speaker 2: But this is one of those cases that, again, remember
26:17
Speaker 2: how it began. It began with a simple searching of
26:20
Speaker 2: a vehicle, but Of the guns and the drugs and
26:23
Speaker 2: things like that, the thing that really sticks out beyond
26:25
Speaker 2: the fact the guy had a fraudulent DEA ID was
26:29
Speaker 2: that the girl that was in the car with him
26:32
Speaker 2: was showing an identification of a woman who's been missing
26:35
Speaker 2: for four years and that they're looking for, okay? In Philadelphia,
26:40
Speaker 2: we're looking for this woman, and you just showed me
26:43
Speaker 2: her ID. Well, your picture with her ID. So that immediately,
26:48
Speaker 2: when they're back at this house now, All right, weapons,
26:51
Speaker 2: got those. They found more drugs. You mentioned the marijuana
26:54
Speaker 2: grow operation. Got that. Chemicals. We've got numerous containers of
26:59
Speaker 2: unknown substances, Joe. Unknown substances. Drums, 55-gallon drums. Bottles containing liquids,
27:09
Speaker 2: chemicals that they still don't know everything they've got. The
27:13
Speaker 2: 55-gallon drums stuck out when this scene was being processed because, well,
27:21
Speaker 2: Remember one of the crime guys, one of the mobsters
27:25
Speaker 2: in the 70s, Johnny Roselli? 55-gallon drum, right? In Key
27:29
Speaker 2: Biscayne Bay? You could put a body in one of those.
27:33
Speaker 2: And so this 55-gallon drum, though, Joe, was connected to
27:38
Speaker 2: hoses and piping leading toward the groundwater system.
27:46
Speaker 1: Okay. Now, what I would ask everybody to do Go
27:51
Speaker 1: back in your file. Go back in your file and
27:57
Speaker 1: think about an apartment in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Oh, no. Back
28:05
Speaker 1: in the 90s. Okay. Roughly happening about the same time
28:09
Speaker 1: the O.J. Simpson stuff was going on. And that image
28:14
Speaker 1: of individuals, and I knew those people, I knew Some
28:20
Speaker 1: of them, matter of fact, the guy that was the
28:22
Speaker 1: chief medical examiner, I knew him very well, Dr. Jensen. Oh,
28:26
Speaker 1: the stories he can tell. And you remember seeing those
28:30
Speaker 1: guys come descending that external metal staircase outside of Dahmer's
28:36
Speaker 1: apartment where they're carrying drums. So, yeah, back to the
28:42
Speaker 1: comment that you made about, you know, the underworld and
28:46
Speaker 1: what they can do with a drum. All we have
28:47
Speaker 1: to do is look at, is it Lake Mead? you know,
28:50
Speaker 1: out in Vegas where those drums have popped up, you've
28:54
Speaker 1: got hoses coming out of these. So for me, what
28:58
Speaker 1: I'm thinking is that, are these drums being used to
29:03
Speaker 1: render with? And when I say render, I'm talking about
29:07
Speaker 1: where you can reduce human remains down to such a
29:13
Speaker 1: fine element that they could be pumped into the groundwater
29:17
Speaker 1: system or middle of the night you walk out to
29:20
Speaker 1: the street you got storm gutter right there you just
29:23
Speaker 1: tip this puppy over and pour it off into there
29:26
Speaker 1: and philly gets a lot of rain man it's a
29:28
Speaker 1: port city they have showers that come through there all
29:31
Speaker 1: the time you're taking on water into the sewer system
29:35
Speaker 1: it's just pushing man it's like a river underneath people
29:37
Speaker 1: don't realize you get in one of these things and
29:40
Speaker 1: you're down there. I've been in them, you know, looking
29:41
Speaker 1: for bodies and recovering bodies. And I've been in there
29:45
Speaker 1: after a rain and it's scary. It can be scary,
29:47
Speaker 1: you know, down there.
29:48
Speaker 2: It's scary here sitting here on dry land thinking about it.
29:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's like a perfect system. Not saying that's
29:54
Speaker 1: what happened.
29:55
Speaker 2: Right.
29:56
Speaker 1: However, I do know these unknown chemicals, those have been
30:00
Speaker 1: taken to Quantico, Dave. This is not going to the
30:03
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania State Crime Lab because the feds are up to
30:06
Speaker 1: their eyeballs in this thing now. So, you know, they,
30:09
Speaker 1: this is a case, this is a, you know how
30:14
Speaker 1: we've talked about with Guthrie, how a lot has been
30:18
Speaker 1: made about when did the feds, you know, get an invitation.
30:22
Speaker 1: That's right. This is not one of those cases where
30:25
Speaker 1: the feds have to be invited.
30:27
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
30:27
Speaker 1: They've got, They got a dog in the fight here.
30:31
Speaker 2: Okay. Boy, they were right on day. That explains so much.
30:35
Speaker 2: That was one of my questions for you is how
30:36
Speaker 2: did it happen so fast? Now I understand.
30:38
Speaker 1: Okay.
30:39
Speaker 2: But Joe, all of these things, okay, were found in
30:43
Speaker 2: week one of them going. And any one of the
30:47
Speaker 2: items we've mentioned is an all day, all week affair
30:50
Speaker 2: of trying to figure out what you have. But guess
30:51
Speaker 2: what they also found? What they're calling the laboratory. They
30:56
Speaker 2: found a lab. Investigators described portions of the basement, and
31:02
Speaker 2: I'm reading this from their notes, as resembling a chemical laboratory.
31:07
Speaker 2: Containers and equipment whose purposes were initially unclear. Authorities began
31:12
Speaker 2: testing the substances. Still haven't given us a clear picture.
31:18
Speaker 2: Not yet, but I think they already know what it is.
31:20
Speaker 2: But they're trying to, because of some other things they
31:23
Speaker 2: found that we're getting ready to tell you about.
31:25
Speaker 1: Um.
31:27
Speaker 2: I think they'll have to tell us, but it's not
31:29
Speaker 2: going to happen right away.
31:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it has that we're going to
31:34
Speaker 1: hear about it in the immediate. However, we have to
31:38
Speaker 1: remember that with the feds comes silence. So, you know,
31:46
Speaker 1: before you get your back all up in the air
31:49
Speaker 1: over why aren't they releasing information, F-E-D-S, feds. they're in
31:56
Speaker 1: control of this. You know, they're not the ones that
31:59
Speaker 1: are running for office. They don't have to run out
32:01
Speaker 1: to a podium and make a statement. They've got all
32:05
Speaker 1: the time in the world to work on cases, and
32:11
Speaker 1: they're not going to let you have any information about
32:15
Speaker 1: what has or hasn't occurred in that house. But I
32:19
Speaker 1: can tell you this, trust me, as we speak right now,
32:24
Speaker 1: There are people at that scene looking for everything that
32:28
Speaker 1: they can find that has forensic value. They're working in
32:33
Speaker 1: the lab out at Quantico and trying to discern that.
32:38
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, they're also looking at what
32:44
Speaker 1: might be human remains, but not in the normal state
32:51
Speaker 1: of which we would expect them to be. You talk
33:04
Speaker 1: about this kind of intersection of horror. There's a couple
33:08
Speaker 1: of little intersections along the way. This guy that has
33:14
Speaker 1: in fact been hooked up on charges in this particular case.
33:18
Speaker 1: In addition to that, he's got a rather... infamous daddy
33:25
Speaker 1: as well, to say the very least. The dad's name is,
33:33
Speaker 1: he goes, well, his name, he just has died. He
33:36
Speaker 1: died back in 2025. His name was Raymond R.C. Horsch,
33:42
Speaker 1: and he was rather well-known for generating material that's very
33:49
Speaker 1: graphic and disturbing, sexually explicit, and to top things off, very,
33:56
Speaker 1: very violent. And here's a little insight. I was kind
34:01
Speaker 1: of reviewing some of the stuff that he was involved with,
34:05
Speaker 1: and he actually has a chapter, Brother Dave, in one
34:09
Speaker 1: of these books that he created, and it's actually talking
34:13
Speaker 1: about he's like this character is like a sexual sadist.
34:21
Speaker 1: He's talking about the killing and then rendering down of
34:24
Speaker 1: a woman's remains. And guess what he's using? He's using lye.
34:30
Speaker 1: And so with lye, lye is such a caustic compound.
34:36
Speaker 1: You know, and our ancestors used it a lot, you know,
34:39
Speaker 1: to make soap with. It's actually a solution of potassium hydroxide. Very,
34:47
Speaker 1: very caustic. And you can use it literally constantly. to, well,
34:51
Speaker 1: it's used in, believe it or not, it's actually used
34:53
Speaker 1: to cure foods. We have it there, but it is
34:57
Speaker 1: very caustic. And so you can, and he even alludes
35:00
Speaker 1: to this in the writing, which was fascinating. Um, he said, uh,
35:05
Speaker 1: and I'm paraphrasing again, he says something like, you can,
35:11
Speaker 1: I could place her in this drum of lie and
35:13
Speaker 1: within two hours, there would be nothing left. Now I
35:15
Speaker 1: don't necessarily buy that, but you know, it's kind of a, uh,
35:20
Speaker 1: I don't know, a literary device. You know, he's alluding
35:24
Speaker 1: to this. And his father's got a long history of this.
35:26
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, and this is coming from
35:29
Speaker 1: a news, I don't want to misname the network, but Dave,
35:37
Speaker 1: they actually use the term. This is not Brother Dave
35:40
Speaker 1: and Joe Scott Morgan saying this. It has been mentioned
35:46
Speaker 1: the term snuff film has been used. And I think
35:50
Speaker 1: that this is related to the father, perhaps, in some
35:53
Speaker 1: of the works that he was involved in. And that's really,
35:58
Speaker 1: you know, for many people, you know, people regard that
36:02
Speaker 1: as an urban legend. But I think that it has,
36:07
Speaker 1: you cannot tell me that it has never happened. You know,
36:13
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's happened in this case.
36:16
Speaker 1: I hope it hasn't. But the fact that it's out
36:19
Speaker 1: there is really, really troubling.
36:21
Speaker 2: It is out there. And, you know, when you and
36:23
Speaker 2: I were talking about this last night off air, you know,
36:26
Speaker 2: we both are like, please, for the love, let's not
36:30
Speaker 2: go there. But you know what? It's going to be
36:32
Speaker 2: there because it is the prurient interest of those of
36:35
Speaker 2: us who follow true crime. And we want to know
36:37
Speaker 2: what happened. Now, look, in the writings that they are
36:41
Speaker 2: hoping are all attributed to R.C., who is R.C. Horsch,
36:44
Speaker 2: who is dead.
36:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
36:46
Speaker 2: They were trying to determine, is this an actual threat?
36:48
Speaker 2: Is it a confession? Are the notes about a crime
36:51
Speaker 2: committed or future crimes that he's going to write about
36:54
Speaker 2: a fictional manuscript? They're trying to figure all that out.
36:58
Speaker 2: But while they were in the process of doing that, Joe,
37:01
Speaker 2: something else happened. And after everything we've already given you,
37:07
Speaker 2: we started off by telling you it's a story of
37:10
Speaker 2: missing and possibly dead women. Yeah. August 12th was the bombshell, Joe.
37:17
Speaker 2: Police seized what they're referring to as an extraordinary amount
37:23
Speaker 2: of material. Video images, videos, manuscripts, 10,000 pages. But let's
37:32
Speaker 2: just stick with the pictures and the videos, Joe. Because
37:35
Speaker 2: from the pictures and the videos, which, by the way,
37:38
Speaker 2: law enforcement has only gone through 5 to 7%. Of
37:43
Speaker 2: the total. That's how large this is. And they don't even.
37:46
Speaker 2: They're not even completed. With what all they found. Yet.
37:49
Speaker 2: But five to seven percent in. They found. Two of
37:54
Speaker 2: the missing women. Gabriela Amarando. Who went missing. September of 2012.
38:01
Speaker 1: And.
38:02
Speaker 2: Maribel. Francis. Who's been missing since February of 2018. They found. Pictures.
38:10
Speaker 2: Of both of these ladies. Alive. And they found evidence,
38:21
Speaker 2: photograph or video, that they are both dead. Now, that's
38:26
Speaker 2: not normally something that the police put out there at
38:29
Speaker 2: this stage of an investigation. Because there are so many
38:34
Speaker 2: missing women in Philadelphia. But they are asking for information
38:40
Speaker 2: from the public. And that's why they said, we got this.
38:44
Speaker 2: These two women have been missing again. You're talking about
38:46
Speaker 2: a woman who, when she went missing, she was 22,
38:48
Speaker 2: would be 38 now. I mean, and they know she
38:53
Speaker 2: was alive and that they had video. And then they
38:57
Speaker 2: know that she was dead and they have the video.
38:59
Speaker 1: I think that goes back to the chief statement, brother,
39:02
Speaker 1: where they talked about, he said, I know that they're deceased.
39:07
Speaker 1: Can I tell you something just from a scientific standpoint? And,
39:13
Speaker 1: you know, we don't know. what their status is because
39:16
Speaker 1: they haven't been found. There's no mortal remains that have
39:19
Speaker 1: been found. However, I think that it would be interesting
39:24
Speaker 1: to get those dates when they were last seen and
39:28
Speaker 1: take a look at both these images, the anti-mortem and
39:33
Speaker 1: the alleged post-mortem. I want to see if there's any
39:37
Speaker 1: evidence that they have been, how can I say it,
39:43
Speaker 1: denied food. Oh, where... they're withering, you know, kind of
39:49
Speaker 1: withering away.
39:50
Speaker 2: Um, prisoner.
39:52
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Where, you know, and again, if this individual
39:55
Speaker 1: has got this kind of, um, sadistic, sadistic thing, and,
40:01
Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, I hate to leap over
40:03
Speaker 1: into the world of, of fictional on stuff. Uh, but
40:08
Speaker 1: you know, you, you know, you take a silence of
40:10
Speaker 1: the lambs like scenario, which is actually based on a
40:12
Speaker 1: real case. And no, it's not earlier.
40:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:15
Speaker 1: And it's not again.
40:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Dummer was trying to make sex slave, right?
40:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
40:19
Speaker 2: He said he was trying to make zombies. Oh my gosh,
40:21
Speaker 2: I had to put that together.
40:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so this is nothing, there's nothing new under
40:26
Speaker 1: the sun and people have been enslaving people for thousands
40:29
Speaker 1: of years for this use, you know.
40:33
Speaker 2: Right.
40:33
Speaker 1: And they've got kind of a, I hate to use
40:37
Speaker 1: the word goldmine, but from an evidentiary standpoint, and you
40:41
Speaker 1: can't look at a photo and say someone is in
40:43
Speaker 1: fact dead. Right. You know, now if somebody's laying next
40:47
Speaker 1: to their corpse and their head is cut off and
40:50
Speaker 1: it's there like Dahmer. You know, we had those images,
40:53
Speaker 1: by the way, I've got some of my show in class.
40:56
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Yeah. Matter of fact, I got one guy
40:58
Speaker 1: that's in a bathtub and he's field dressed like a deer.
41:01
Speaker 1: And that was in Dahmer's bathroom.
41:04
Speaker 2: Oh my God.
41:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, no. Yeah. And you know, you, you think about
41:09
Speaker 1: that and you think about the operation, you know, that
41:12
Speaker 1: was going on or that we think may have been
41:14
Speaker 1: going on down there. Now, This is a scientific problem, right?
41:21
Speaker 1: And so we need scientific solutions, all right? Sounds like
41:24
Speaker 1: an ad, doesn't it?
41:25
Speaker 2: No, how are you going to find out if these women,
41:28
Speaker 2: if their remains were dissolved there? How can you find out.
41:31
Speaker 1: They're buried there? If they occupied that space, that's one
41:34
Speaker 1: of the reasons I was thinking about if they'd been
41:36
Speaker 1: held for a protracted time.
41:38
Speaker 2: Right.
41:39
Speaker 1: And let's say that they're chained up somewhere or even
41:43
Speaker 1: stuffed in a closet or you name it. I mean,
41:46
Speaker 1: I've heard- about tons of people. Do you remember the
41:50
Speaker 1: case a few years ago out of South Carolina?
41:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, the girl that was in the trailer.
41:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh my God, what a horrible case. Well, if
41:57
Speaker 1: you went into that trailer, Dave, she occupied that space, right?
42:00
Speaker 2: Right.
42:00
Speaker 1: Okay. So you can do swabbing inside of there. And
42:06
Speaker 1: even after the fact, you can go back and say
42:07
Speaker 1: she was here. Now, with these known missing girls, because
42:11
Speaker 1: there's other girls that we have not discussed that I
42:15
Speaker 1: don't think the names have been released yet, or maybe
42:17
Speaker 1: they have at this point, I'm not sure. But we,
42:21
Speaker 1: if they have families out there, okay, if they have
42:24
Speaker 1: families out there, moms, dads, brothers, and sisters are the
42:30
Speaker 1: best selection. They're going to be able to get DNA
42:35
Speaker 1: sample from them. And then they're going to sample all
42:37
Speaker 1: around that house. And trust me, What did I say
42:40
Speaker 1: about the feds? They got all the time in the world, brother.
42:43
Speaker 2: How do you do that though, Joe? I mean, really
42:45
Speaker 2: and truly, how do you search? I mean, like even
42:47
Speaker 2: a studio, I look at the rooms that you and
42:48
Speaker 2: I are sitting in. Do you go corner to corner
42:51
Speaker 2: on your hands and knees scraping with a Q-tip?
42:54
Speaker 1: If necessary, you would, first off, you wouldn't do it randomly.
42:58
Speaker 1: You would, and here's the other thing. If you walk
43:00
Speaker 1: into a scene, you don't remove everything in the scene, right?
43:05
Speaker 1: So you have to work around items. Like I've got
43:07
Speaker 1: clothing scattered in here, luggage. you know, a bureau, you know,
43:12
Speaker 1: storage cabinets, lights, you know, all this stuff. Well, I
43:18
Speaker 1: can't take this stuff out because this stuff might have
43:21
Speaker 1: value as evidence. And certainly, if we do some kind
43:26
Speaker 1: of contact trace analysis on a surface where we think
43:29
Speaker 1: that either a body fluid has been deposited on or
43:33
Speaker 1: even if it's touched DNA and we swab that and
43:35
Speaker 1: we collect it and go back, and it's laborious, man.
43:38
Speaker 1: And so what you would do is you would take
43:40
Speaker 1: that space, you would take that space, say, Dave, you're
43:45
Speaker 1: investigator A, I'm investigator B, okay, crime scene investigator. You're
43:50
Speaker 1: going to handle these quadrants in the room, and we'll
43:53
Speaker 1: break the whole place down into quadrants. And it will
43:56
Speaker 1: be like 1A, and you'll go through and you will
44:00
Speaker 1: sample these surfaces, and they will be individually collected. Then
44:04
Speaker 1: you'll go back to the lab and you'll process each
44:06
Speaker 1: one of those, but you do it, in a highly
44:09
Speaker 1: ordered fashion, because you want to go back. You want
44:15
Speaker 1: to go back and be able to say, okay, in
44:17
Speaker 1: quadrant 1A, that Brother Dave was sampling in that area,
44:23
Speaker 1: this is what we found, okay, and it's really robust. Well,
44:27
Speaker 1: if I go back out there and observe that scene
44:29
Speaker 1: now with that knowledge, would it be consistent that she
44:32
Speaker 1: was held in a chair adjacent to that?
44:35
Speaker 2: Wow.
44:35
Speaker 1: Tied to the floor there? Is it a space on
44:38
Speaker 1: the floor where maybe she was curled up and was
44:40
Speaker 1: being contained there? That's why you lock everything down. And Dave,
44:47
Speaker 1: they've got this whole place locked down. They're not just
44:50
Speaker 1: out in the yard digging around randomly. They're having to
44:55
Speaker 1: go through and check it inch by inch to see
44:58
Speaker 1: what's there. My Lord, Dave, I was just thinking about this.
45:02
Speaker 1: This thing numerically can get really overwhelming because... We only
45:07
Speaker 1: know about these women right now. What if they find
45:12
Speaker 1: other foreign DNA in there that may be entered into
45:18
Speaker 1: some kind of system somewhere? Maybe somebody said, my family
45:21
Speaker 1: member is missing. I mean, we don't know, but we
45:26
Speaker 1: would find, you know, those are what would be referred
45:29
Speaker 1: to as unknown samples that are there or they're forensic samples.
45:34
Speaker 1: That means that we have a sample. We can get
45:36
Speaker 1: a profile off of it. But we ain't got a
45:38
Speaker 1: name to go with it because there's no comparative database. So, yeah,
45:42
Speaker 1: this is going to be painstaking, Brother Dave.
45:45
Speaker 2: Well, the one thing that we do know is that
45:48
Speaker 2: they have not let loose of the crime scene. We
45:51
Speaker 2: do know that even though they've been there since June,
45:55
Speaker 2: that even as late as day before yesterday, the police
45:59
Speaker 2: revealed that, hey, man, this house has been substantially changed
46:03
Speaker 2: since we were here before. which they believe that is
46:06
Speaker 2: indicative of, yeah, we found a bunch, but either stuff's
46:10
Speaker 2: been moved out or it's been hidden. So they're taking
46:13
Speaker 2: their time, as you mentioned, Joe. And we do have
46:16
Speaker 2: the names of four women.
46:17
Speaker 1: Oh, there's four, right.
46:19
Speaker 2: Gabrielle Almirando, Maribel Fresas, and I know I'm butchering her
46:24
Speaker 2: name and I apologize. Blair Tanzelli, she's the one that
46:27
Speaker 2: went missing between 2022 and 2023. but she's the one
46:32
Speaker 2: who the girl had the fake ID with.
46:33
Speaker 1: That had the ID, yeah.
46:34
Speaker 2: Right, that got them into the house this time. But
46:37
Speaker 2: there is one more name, and she is a woman
46:40
Speaker 2: who was known to have been at this house before R.C.
46:43
Speaker 2: Horsch passed away. Her name is Amy McHale. Amy McHale's
46:48
Speaker 2: family has said she was at that house last time
46:51
Speaker 2: we saw her, and so they're trying to, and the
46:54
Speaker 2: last time she was seen was 2016.
46:56
Speaker 1: Please tell me, and forgive me, I, Tell me about these.
47:00
Speaker 1: They found urns as well, didn't they?
47:02
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. There were four urns on the inside. And,
47:04
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't mean to gloss over that earlier. No, no, no.
47:09
Speaker 2: It was during that first week, going back to that
47:11
Speaker 2: first week of finding the laboratory and the marijuana grow
47:15
Speaker 2: and everything else. They found all these chemicals. And then
47:19
Speaker 2: they found at least four urns. And they don't, they
47:25
Speaker 2: being officials, don't know how many. cremains there are they
47:30
Speaker 2: don't know if they've been mixed and matched they don't
47:32
Speaker 2: know it where the cremains came from they because based
47:36
Speaker 2: on what they're seeing everything is on the table joe
47:39
Speaker 2: so yeah at least.
47:41
Speaker 1: Four yeah i think that those those remain i guess
47:45
Speaker 1: they could have gone to fbi i'm thinking probably the philly.
47:48
Speaker 2: Me can you get dna out of cremains.
47:51
Speaker 1: Very very difficult and it's because the heat this okay
47:54
Speaker 1: let's let's don't go there yet let's just go with
47:56
Speaker 1: with this First off, are they actual cremains? Secondly, how
48:02
Speaker 1: would this guy have access to a crematory? Because I've
48:06
Speaker 1: got to tell you, he's in Philly. You're not going
48:08
Speaker 1: to go out in the backyard and render somebody down
48:12
Speaker 1: unless he has some weird method to... And when you
48:18
Speaker 1: say cremains, that implies... I'm saying the universal you. If
48:23
Speaker 1: people are saying that, you're not saying that it's been
48:26
Speaker 1: rendered down chemically it's been rendered down by chemical reaction
48:32
Speaker 1: that winds up being fire you know um but it's
48:36
Speaker 1: not like rendering down with lye or some kind of
48:39
Speaker 1: acid okay this is something different my question is who
48:46
Speaker 1: has access to a crematory yeah and i think that's
48:50
Speaker 1: a salient question i'd like to know that because you
48:52
Speaker 1: know we've talked about cremains many times brother dave and
48:57
Speaker 1: You've got to get up there into like 1,400, 1,600
49:03
Speaker 1: degrees sustained Fahrenheit in order to begin to render down
49:09
Speaker 1: a body. A lot of it is size dependent, the
49:13
Speaker 1: mass of the individual you're rendering down. If you've got
49:16
Speaker 1: a real tiny little person, it's not going to take
49:18
Speaker 1: as long. But even with really tiny people, I take
49:23
Speaker 1: my classes at Jack State, I actually take them to
49:26
Speaker 1: a crematory and we go and look at the oven.
49:30
Speaker 1: We examine particulate matter that we discover there. And Here's
49:38
Speaker 1: another thing. I don't know what the status of the
49:40
Speaker 1: cremains are because if there's evidence that these are actual
49:47
Speaker 1: cremains and they're in an urn, which is interesting that
49:50
Speaker 1: they use that term because urn is something that is
49:53
Speaker 1: specifically tied to cremation. Unless you're going to use this
50:00
Speaker 1: kind of arcane language to refer to an urn of
50:04
Speaker 1: butter or something like an urn of wine, I don't know. language-wise,
50:12
Speaker 1: it's something that applies to cremains. So my point here
50:16
Speaker 1: is with cremation also comes another type of rendering because
50:22
Speaker 1: they put what remains in the oven in an auger
50:27
Speaker 1: and it spins down and it crushes. They used to
50:31
Speaker 1: have opposing stones, which I was always fascinated by, these
50:34
Speaker 1: big marble stones, the stones rolled in opposite directions, and
50:39
Speaker 1: the remains would be crushed because you'll still have bits
50:41
Speaker 1: of bone, you'll have teeth, these sorts of things. They
50:44
Speaker 1: want to get it rendered down as fine, and they're
50:46
Speaker 1: not always successful. Back to your earlier question, could you
50:51
Speaker 1: in fact say that we can get DNA? I think
50:55
Speaker 1: that it would be a real uphill battle. However, forensic anthropologists, microscopically,
51:02
Speaker 1: they can take those cremains and they can find usable
51:06
Speaker 1: bits of bone in there and they can identify if
51:10
Speaker 1: this is in fact bone they can either go another
51:12
Speaker 1: step and say if it's human or not so that's
51:16
Speaker 1: you know that's that's kind of what's what's on the
51:19
Speaker 1: menu guys i mean for what we're looking at right
51:21
Speaker 1: now brother dave and i have really no other information
51:25
Speaker 1: i think from a body bag's perspective I would urge
51:28
Speaker 1: anybody that has knowledge of this location up in the
51:32
Speaker 1: Olney neighborhood in Philly, if you even have peripheral knowledge
51:36
Speaker 1: of this individual, his father, these women or women that
51:40
Speaker 1: might be missing, take the time to look into this.
51:45
Speaker 1: Turn on your thinking cap here and think if there's
51:48
Speaker 1: anything you could add to the story. I'm sure they're
51:50
Speaker 1: getting tons of phone calls because, as you mentioned, Dave,
51:53
Speaker 1: Philly has got a ton of missing women. And, you know,
51:58
Speaker 1: any big metropolitan area, like you're drowning and missing people
52:02
Speaker 1: and you don't know why they're missing. You don't necessarily
52:04
Speaker 1: know they're dead. They may have just wandered off, you know,
52:06
Speaker 1: and wanted to start a life somewhere. We have no idea.
52:10
Speaker 1: But I can tell you now where we stand at
52:14
Speaker 1: this moment. This case is not going to be over
52:18
Speaker 1: anytime soon. There are going to be so many twists
52:21
Speaker 1: and turns to this that you're going to be surprised, probably,
52:26
Speaker 1: I think. in my humble opinion, uh, Papa that only
52:31
Speaker 1: died back in 2025. I think that there, he needs
52:37
Speaker 1: to be looked into particularly given this past that he has, um,
52:42
Speaker 1: couple that with the son. We don't know what went
52:45
Speaker 1: on in this house. This is the beginning of a
52:47
Speaker 1: real horror show and I don't see any end anytime soon.
52:54
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan. And this is Body Bags.