Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 495: 335 GRE, Real Estate. 8.65 GPA, from India. Stern vs Johnson

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MBA Wire Taps 495: 335 GRE, Real Estate. 8.65 GPA, from India. Stern vs Johnson · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Hi, I'm Kate Spencer from Chicago booth.
• 0:02
  Speaker B: And I'm Nicole Chen, also from Chicago booth.
• 0:04
  Speaker A: And you're listening to the Clear Admit podcast. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, June 8, 2026. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. How are things, Alex?
• 0:35
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:37
  Speaker A: So just as a reminder for folks who are maybe listening to the show for the first time or they've just kind of come on board, I want to just remind people, Alex, that you are a former admissions officer from the Wharton School. You're currently Clear Admits community manager and podcaster, but you also teach digital marketing for several top business schools including Wharton, what, Columbia LBs. And are you doing some stuff with Stanford now too?
• 0:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, digital transformation.
• 1:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. Yeah. And also I'm the co founder of Clear Admit and I worked in admissions at Wharton where I met Alex for the first time and have an MBA from that program too. So just a little background for our listeners who might be new to the show. But Alex, this week we've got a lot to get to because we have some cool AI news out of Berkeley Haas. I feel like we've been talking a lot about the Bay Area schools of late. We have some key admissions advice that was gleaned from, from conversations with I guess 20 plus admissions directors in the last few weeks with our May event series. And then we have real humans alumni working at bcg, JP Morgan and Bain and of course three candidates to discuss that you picked out. But is there anything going on deadlines wise or where are we in the cycle now?
• 1:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, we are getting very close to the end. So a couple of schools are still releasing decisions isa next week is scheduled to release some decisions. But yeah, we're going to see one or two schools each week for the next couple of weeks and that wraps things up for this season. The other activity we'll see and are seeing a little bit of is folks getting admitted from the wait lists.
• 2:11
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 2:13
  Speaker B: So, so yeah, that that will continue, I would presume for the next month or two.
• 2:19
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 2:20
  Speaker B: But yeah, then come August, classes all begin or at least preterm begins. Right.
• 2:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I would imagine there'll be more people admitted from waitlist than usual, just from kind of informal conversations with admissions directors. You know, I think, you know, most of these schools have not totally secured their class yet and so they're, you know, go into the waitlist to kind of fill out seats and that will have a trickle down Effect. Right. So every time, you know, Harvard or Stanford or Wharton go to their waitlist, then somebody, you know, probably is turning down an offer from a school below. So yeah, it has a sort of knock on effect, but we'll see that kind of play out over the next couple of months, I would imagine.
• 2:55
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 2:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. Other than that, we've got events coming up in July. It's our very famous. I mean, this is the first event series that we started with when we began doing events. And we have this whole series in July of four, at least for now. It's four virtual sessions with 20 plus schools asking them hard questions about essay topics. So it's our essay workshop series. And you know, I won't go through the whole list, but I can tell you that, you know, we've got schools like Haas and Booth and Fuqua. I'm just looking at the list now. Tuck, Wharton, INSEAD, LBs, Texas, Kellogg, Foster, Columbia. So anyway, that's a very long list. Yale, they're all joining us. We'll go in to sort of do a deep dive on their essay questions. And I love these events every year. I think the schools like them. I mean, I know it's not their normal kind of song and dance where they get to just talk about their programs, but I feel like they appreciate that it's sort of a change of pace and it does allow them to really get into detail on why they ask these question and what they're looking for.
• 3:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. And it highlights how important those essays are. Right. That schools are prepared to participate in these types of workshops. They're very popular workshops. I think we'll see, you know, hundreds of folks signing up as we tend to do year on year, just as we had for our recent more general admissions series. But yeah, these are super important but very popular events.
• 4:21
  Speaker A: Yeah. And what's kind of fun is that we've over the years we talk not just about essays, but also about these video essays that people have to record. Cause that's become increasingly important too. So yeah, it should be a lot of fun. You can sign up by going to clearadmit.com events. And Alex, speaking of the May event series, which you just alluded to the sort of application overview series we just ran, Lauren on our team, with some help from you, put together a piece that kind of summarizes all the key insights that admissions directors shared. And I won't get into all of it because there are literally there were kind of nine core themes that came out in this article that we put together. And I Just wanted to give you a couple of them though. The first one is holistic review is non negotiable. So every school that we met with in this virtual series over the last month was talking about how they do a holistic review. That one, any one thing does not make or break your candidacy. The second thing they talked a lot about was authenticity. I mean, I cannot, if I should have counted the number of times schools use that word. But I think it's, you know, a really important criterion that they're looking for. They want to hear your voice. And similarly, they were talking a lot about how don't let AI drown out your voice. And then there were, you know, there's a whole host of tips and quotes from admissions directors. It's a really interesting piece and it's up on the site now. But Alex, that was a great idea. I got to give you credit for helping us to kind of think about how to do that.
• 5:46
  Speaker B: Yeah. And just, you know. Well, I appreciate that. But for listeners, how do we come up with this type of content? We get the transcripts from these event series. Events. Obviously there are, we're hosting, so we get the transcripts. So we use those transcripts then to. To develop these articles, these types of articles. And obviously there is human in the loop. So Lauren goes back, checks all the quotes, puts the quotes in, make sure everything is well balanced and so forth. So I think this is just a really good example, I think, of a really good use of AI in publishing and creating what I think is really meaningful content, important content for candidates preparing for the upcoming application season.
• 6:40
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it did a brilliant. So we, you know, just using AI to sort of synthesize all. I mean, because these are hours and hours of content from the last couple of weeks. So anyway, the article is really interesting and it does bring up a number of kind of key themes that I think will be helpful to anyone applying to business school and as they think about their application strategy. Speaking of which, we have an admissions tip that we ran to called Making youg List of Business Schools. And in that article we go into, you know, how many schools should you apply to? What should the mix of schools be from, from, you know, kind of dream school to, you know, school where you're kind of maybe a safety or, you know, kind of a target, how, which rounds maybe you should apply in. And there's an accompanying video that's in this article that you and I recorded Alex, as part of the admissions academy. So definitely check that out if you're starting to Put together your target list. Spoiler alert. We do kind of indicate probably most people should be looking at five to seven schools, at least at the outset to kind of, you know, think about where you're going to apply. And, you know, I recognize that some people, you may start with a list of 15 or more as you kind of begin this process, but as you narrow down to the schools you're going to apply to, it's probably in that 5 to 7 range. Yeah. So, Alex, there's a lot in there. And the Admissions Academy video that's in there is just one of. I think they're like 25 videos that we recorded on every aspect of the application process. And those videos are free and up on our website, so people should watch those too, if you don't feel like reading all these articles.
• 8:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I would agree with like the Admissions Academy. I mean, sure, we recorded it probably about three, three years ago now. I forget exactly when they recorded, but. But they are very still on point. And I think, you know, if, if someone sort of new to the process just watched one video after the other for the 24 videos, that's probably about three, three or four hours of time, they would get a really good solid overview of the admissions process from SEWP to knots. The other thing that I would also add to this in terms of folks that are really at the beginning of the process, I trying to figure out how many schools to apply, what schools to apply, identifying, reach and reach schools, target schools, etc. Also consider using our AI bot. So the Clearitmit bot, because what you can do there is you could put in your CV and you can ask, then query the Admissions bot related to your CV on the types of schools to target, how competitive you are, et cetera, et cetera. And that Admissions bot is trained on all of our content. And I think we've stopped talking about the Admissions bot a little bit on this show, quite honestly, but trained on all of our content, including things like transcripts from these recent events that we host, which really ensures that our Admissions bot bot stays very much up to date. Yeah. So the guidance it can provide is real good guidance moving forward. So we have a lot of tools on our site, the Admissions Academy videos, the Admissions Bot, to really enable folks to get going over the summer to sort of prepare themselves, I think round one.
• 10:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And one thing that was funny is, you know, a couple nights ago in Paris, I moderated a panel with some of the top business schools from the United States. So Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Et cetera, all the schools that were here. And one of the things they talked about a lot, I was kind of surprised actually, is they really were talking about how it's quite dangerous to go out onto the Internet. And particularly they were talking about Reddit and RMBA and how there's a lot of advice in there that's not really good advice because it's just whoever wants to weigh in can say what they think. Right. So that's the beauty of Asklier admit our bot is that it's curated. So in any event. Yeah, something to think about. Alex, a couple other things I wanted to get to. We did an article on the site as part of our ongoing Fridays from the Frontline series, which is about basically there's this guy at Haas whose name is Colton Hess and he's currently completing his mba. And we basically took a deep dive into something he's doing on campus, which is this one on one Claude code training for fellow Haas students. And so he's already done this like he's done more than 30 of these with what he's calling them activation sessions. And basically he's helping students understand how to use CLAUDE code for their projects. And so he had a great quote about this. And the article goes into a ton of detail. I'm sure you'll love it when you, when you read it. But he basically says a lot of people are using AI's brain, treating it like a chatbot, asking a question, getting an answer and closing the tab. But now people are starting to use AI's hands. Agentic AI is expanding fast and the gap between people who've crossed that threshold and people who haven't is widening by the week. My classmates and faculty had access to the same tools I did. What they didn't have was someone to hold their hand and walk them across. I quickly realized there was a huge demand for this and beyond just my fellow students. So he goes into detail on some of the things he does in these sessions with, with individuals. But he's obviously an early adapter, loves these tools and it was just kind of a fascinating article to kind of read and said, obviously Haas does their own AI training and everything, but he's kind of adding to that sort of ecosystem just as a current student.
• 12:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think I will be reading that article. I haven't read it yet, but I mean, I subscribed to Claude maybe about a month ago now. And I'm not saying I'm addicted, but I mean I get older, lot of work product out of Claude Cowork as well as Claude Code. I sit more closely with Claude Cowork and it's building decks for me, doing lots of tasks to help me prepare for sort of webinars that I give for some of these exec ed programs and so forth. But I've also used Claude code.
• 12:54
  Speaker A: Right.
• 12:54
  Speaker B: I built myself a chess app because I wanted to get better at chess. Right?
• 12:58
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 12:58
  Speaker B: And it was phenomenal and it has helped me improve my chess game. So I'm a big cheerleader of this approach. Get folks over that hurdle of just that first aha moment. I think once they started using Claude Cowork or Claude Code I think is so important.
• 13:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So more to come on that stuff. I think we'll continue to cover these developments at schools as we always do before we talk about this week's three candidates. I do have some real human women's alumni that I wanted to highlight. And we'll start with Srinika. She is at Cornell or went to Cornell and is now a consultant at bcg. She hails from Bangalore, India and she went to an engineering program as an undergrad, studied industrial engineering and management and then obviously went to Cornell where she studied finance and strategy. She had been working before business school at KPMG for three and a half years as an associate consultant with a focus on Fintech. And then as I said, since GR think she's been at bcg. And you know, it's kind of interesting. We asked her why did you go to business school? And she had a great. I mean sometimes people can say something that's just so simple but really perfect. So she said, I decided to attend business school when my ambitions were outpacing my skills. And I think that's really, really well said. And then we also asked her what piece of advice do you wish you had been given during your mba? And she said, I wish someone had reminded me that at the end of the day it's just a job. The pressure around recruiting can make it feel existential. But an MBA is a rare two year window to experiment, challenge yourself and learn. Without long term downside. This stage of life is a privilege. It's one of the few times you're surrounded by brilliant peers, world class faculty and intellectual freedom. I would encourage students to step outside their comfort zones academically, professionally and personally because the learning often matters more than the offer. So yeah, interesting advice there from her and all of it really well said.
• 15:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, fantastic. And I just love the beginning of it, the notion of ambition. I think if you're Applying to top tier MBA programs. Don't underestimate the importance of ambition threading through your sort of essays and etc. Etc. Obviously with a touch of realism and so forth, but top schools want to bring in folks that are truly ambitious in their sectors and so forth.
• 15:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, and I remember a long time ago when we put together the first draft of the book that we have up on the website, which is about navigating the MBA admissions process and that's also free on the website to download. Alex, you had that in there, this idea that it's not just like what you've done, it's like, what do you want to do? And is there a passion? And I can't remember the word you used in the. It wasn't ambition, but it's something closely related. But anyway, yeah, very important stuff. We also caught up with Mike at Duke Fuqua. He graduated a few years ago, back in 23, and he is an investment banking associate at JP Morgan. He's originally from Seoul, Korea, and he went to undergrad though in the United States at Indiana University where he studied accounting and then did his MBA at Duke. And before the mba he was working also at kpmg. So our first two real humans this week both worked at kpmg. He had done five years there in public accounting and now he's been an investment banker for three years plus over at JP Morgan. And we asked him, why did you do an mba? And he said, he basically talked about his job at kpmg. And then he says, over time, however, I became increasingly drawn to the broader strategic questions behind corporate decisions and I developed a strong interest in investment banking. I saw business school as the best platform to open doors to the industry while also broadening how I think and lead, sharpening my judgment and becoming a more effective communicator in an environment shaped by diverse perspectives. So those were his thoughts on why mba? And then we also asked him for a piece of advice that he wished he'd been given while he was studying. And he said, I wish someone had emphasized how powerful it is to be selective. There are endless opportunities during an MBA and it's easy to overcommit. Being more intentional about what to say no to would have helped me to focus more deeply on what mattered most. So that's Mike, who is a graduate from Fuqua and working at JP Morgan. Any thoughts on that?
• 17:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good. Very thoughtful too. And almost a classic sort of transition, right? Accounting to investment banking, sort of going from back office to strategy front office and so forth. A Real good reason for what a top MBA program, what a top MBA can enable a candidate to do.
• 18:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And our last real human alum is Amna and she is a Kellogg grad and she works at Bain currently. She hails from Houston, Texas. She's 32 years old. And you'll love this. She actually has a really interesting background because she left the United States as a young person to go study at King's College in London. And then she worked in London as an investment analyst. She also worked in, you know, corporate strategy and innovation. All these jobs, I mean a lot of them were with, it sounds like financial services and insurance companies. But she also did a stint for British Telecom as a senior associate consultant, looks like. Or no, that maybe that was one of her other titles. She was a corporate strategy manager there. Sorry. And then she went to Bain again, all in London leading up to business school. And she's returned to Bain afterwards. Right. So she had this whole career in the UK and now though she's working for Bain in Denver, Colorado. So back in the United States. And we asked her why did you go to Kellogg? And what factors figured in making that decision? And she said Kellogg stood out to me because of its collaborative culture and its strong investment in spouses that they call the spouses JVs. I think it's joint ventures right. At Kellogg. And she said being involved. So the spouses being involved in the business school experience was important. I was looking for an environment where classmates collaborate together and Kellogg's culture of teamwork drew me to the school. Actively integrating JVS into the school community was very meaningful. It signaled that the school recognizes business school as a shared experience, not just an individual one. And then we asked her if she had any advice and she said, treat business school as a two year period that you will never get back. Do all the things you keep telling yourself you don't have time for because of work. That's why I trained for and completed triathlon while I was there. So interesting thoughts from Amna and you know, say this great kind of, you know, experience in the uk, now back to the us but really interesting background. Background, yeah.
• 20:09
  Speaker B: And I love their last point about treating the business school as something you'll never get back and time for you to do lots of different things. Almost reflective of our first alum talking about the fact that treat this two years as a gift because you're really surrounded by brilliant people, faculty, students, etc. And, and again, it's not something that'll be repeated going forward in life. So fantastic.
• 20:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. So I think we're ready to move into the candidates. One last thing is that obviously if you want to write to Alex or me, just send an email to infoearadmit.com use the subject line Wiretaps. We do actually write people back. So if you're a regular listener and you just feel like letting us know what you think about the show or you have a question, don't hesitate. Alex, anything else before we talk about the folks you've picked out?
• 21:04
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 21:05
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps Candidate number one. Our first candidate this week comes from an Apply Wire entry on the site. And I would encourage listeners to post to Apply Wire. Like if you haven't used the tool, it's a great way to get feedback on the show or just on the site as well as Alex will leave comments for you there. But our first Wiretaps person this week filled out an ApplyWire entry and they indicated that they're interested in Berkeley, Chicago, Booth, Columbia, Kellogg, Stern, Wharton, UNC, and uva Darden. This person's been working in financial services and they're interested in finance, commercial banking and real estate. Post MBA, their GRE score is a 335. It's a very high score. They had a 3.58 undergraduate GPA and I should point out that they earned enough credits to basically or two bachelor's while they were studying in undergrad. So they have a bachelor's in economics and math and then they have a second bachelor's in history. They've been working for six years located in Chicago and they're thinking that their post MBA destination will be Chicago, New York or Philadelphia. Little shout out there because I don't think I've ever seen an applyware entry where someone mentioned Philadelphia as the destination, which I love to see because I like Philadelphia. But in any event, they mentioned that they've been working in a small financial derivatives advisory firm. They're a vice president. They advise clients. The firm is so small that they have had, you know, a lot of leadership opportunity. So they, you know, present to clients, executives and investors and you know, sounds like it's, it's been a really interesting opportunity. They also, before they kind of got into this work, they did a little bit of work in a mid sized public sector consulting firm. And also it sounds like a year of service with AmeriCorps working in homelessness services. And you know, As I said, 3.58 GPA from undergrad. It comes from a. Not top tier, but A public university. And again they have two degrees, effectively. They also mentioned that they're kind of wondering which schools to apply to. So they, I read out the list but they said that their brother keeps telling them hey, you know, you should also apply to Stanford. And you know, they're saying that their dream school is Wharton, but they think it's a long shot. They also share that they're 28 year old, white male, originally from Pennsylvania and a member of the LGBTQ community. So Alex, what do you make of this candidate?
• 23:36
  Speaker B: I was puzzled when you mentioned that they wanted to be in Philadelphia. But if they're originally from Pennsylvania, maybe they do know Philly a little bit. So they, so that makes sense. I think this candidate should go to the Stanford website, download their main essay and spend the next month really noodling on it. What matters most to you, whatever the wording is for that essay, because there's a lot to like about this candidate. They obviously have come through a pathway that's not, it's not been Ivy League League, it's not been, you know, then into whatever the biggest recruiters that go to Ivy League school. So a little bit of a different pathway but I reckon that they've made the most out of their opportunities and that's what the schools will, will look at. And it seems like they're doing really well at work. So they don't. So, so, so that should, should, should be helpful. Lots of leadership exposure that they can talk about, etc. Etc. I like like the outside of work stuff, hunger relief and, and, and AmeriCorps and and so forth. It shows that they, they have broader interests other than just their own self improvement.
• 24:50
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 24:50
  Speaker B: Which I think is a really good thing. Adcom like that they've got a whopping great GRE score. Someone advised them to retake the GRE right.327 they had, which is decent enough. But what great advice to come back with a 335. Right.
• 25:06
  Speaker A: That's off the charts.
• 25:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's off the charts. So I mean my point is if they can nail that first Stanford essay, that will be really good for them as they apply to other schools. I always think that that essay is just a really good sort of marker to get to draft out even if you don't apply to Stanford. But if you do spend the effort and nail that Stanford essay, you might as well put in the application because why not? This is the sort of candidate that maybe Stanford gets really interested in and certainly Wharton would get interested in. So I don't necessarily treat those top programs as out of reach, maybe slight reach and target programs, but yeah. Graham, there's a lot to like about this candidate in my book.
• 25:50
  Speaker A: Yeah. And you underlined this and I kind of neglected to mention it, but yeah, they volunteer a couple hours a week with this hunger relief nonprofit. They're also a board member for the nonprofit. And they did this thing. They organized their company's first ever annual day of service, which is now three years running.
• 26:06
  Speaker B: This is a good dude.
• 26:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 26:08
  Speaker B: And then business schools do actually want good dudes in that. Well, not good people in their program. Right.
• 26:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And then they kind of, you know, cherry on top is that they collect vinyl LPs, and, you know, they love learning about ancient history. So they're well rounded. You know, they're interested in music and history. And so, yeah, the first thing that struck me about this candidate was just, you know, that comment where they're like, oh, I don't think I'm, you know, Wharton's like a dream. But I think it's a long shot. And my view is, no, they should apply of the top schools,
• 26:42
  Speaker B: too. Right. And he says, like, full of humility.
• 26:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. So no, this person should go to a top school. And then they did have a really lovely comment for us somewhere. I can't remember it was. But they mentioned. Oh, yeah, they said, thanks, Alex, because you had given them feedback on the site. And they said, thanks, Alex. Also, thanks to you and Graham for the podcast. I just discovered it a few weeks ago and have been devouring the back catalog. So maybe don't say that in your applications because that means you don't have better things to do than listen to this show. But no, I seriously think that they have a lot of potential and could be super competitive at even the best schools. Yeah.
• 27:19
  Speaker B: Yeah. And really, there's not much difference targeting round one, round two for a candidate like this because they're not going to be overrepresented. So. So I would aim high in round one. Yeah, totally. You know, it seems like scholarship money might be an important factor, so they could throw in a top 16 into that round one just to get on the their radar. But I would go really aim high in round one.
• 27:44
  Speaker A: I agree. Yeah, definitely. So best of luck to them. I want to thank them for sharing their profile and for listening to the show. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week also comes from an apply wire entry. This person has 13 schools on their target list. And so it Includes includes Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke, the Indian School of Business, INSEAD, LBS, MI, MIT, Kellogg, Stern, Wharton and Yale. This person's working in consulting and that's what they would like to do after business school as well. They're located in India, they didn't specify where, but their GPA is an 8.65 out of 10. That's actually a very high GPA for an Indian candidate. They have two years of work experience, three upon matriculation and they mentioned that they're currently working in consulting. Sounds like their client is in the fast moving consumer goods and beverages kind of domain. And they realize that they, they really enjoy this kind of work and so they want to do an MBA to really push towards kind of strategy consulting. And you know, they also talked about how they've done some things outside of work. They co founded and ran a digital digital literacy initiative during COVID for over a year where they basically helped elderly individuals and women from underserved communities to learn basic digital tools to be able to stay connected during lockdown. And they also shared that they're currently preparing for the GMAT exam and they're exploring the schools and they're just wondering kind of where they might stand. But they know that they probably need the test score to really get it all together. But Alex, you had some, some interesting thoughts that you shared with this candidate that are not about school selection or the test because they've got to figure that stuff out. But you wanted to talk about their right, their goals and experience. So I'll let you kind of COVID that.
• 29:35
  Speaker B: I mean, as you point out, their GPA is very strong. So yeah, one would assume that they're super smart and they'll take the test, you know, the standardized test and hopefully they'll, you know, if they take the gmat, they'll get a, you know, a super high score probably in the, you know, 705, 715 or something like that which would be reflective of an 865 GPA. So super smart potentially, well, likely a lot of potential. But I just wonder if now is the right time to apply, if they're going to maximize their opportunities for their mba. I mean, I think if they do get a really good GMAT score, you know, sure they'll get admissions to decent MBA programs around the world, but I just wonder if they had better goals, better aspirations, really something that hangs on a long term goal, which I didn't see. I think that would allow them to present a much more coherent package and so on and so forth and make them more interesting for the very top programs. But that takes time. Right. They're only, as you point out, there'll be three years work experience upon matriculation. So that is definitely at the younger end. Yeah, so, so they, you know, in my mind they've, they've got a balance. Are they using the NBA to get out of India to sort of explore the world and they want to do that as quickly as possible. Fair enough, they should be able to pull that off. But are they using the NBA to get the best experience to set them up for the, the rest career? I would likely say maybe put a break on it, spend another year further, develop, build out those long term goals, really identify that pathway, et cetera and then apply.
• 31:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's an interesting quandary because I think you know, like you said, you know, lots of potential numbers are probably going to be good. I would expect a good test score, you know, so they could be competitive. I mean obviously it can't hurt to take a flyer, apply in the first round, see what, see where they land and you know, but I agree that they need to flesh out these goals like you're saying. I mean they really, it would be so much more compelling if I knew for example they've really enjoyed working with this fast moving consumer goods company. Right. So as a client and so maybe there's a theme there, you know, they just need to find something that they're passionate about because consulting in of itself it's fine for a short term goal but we need to understand like what, what's the, what are they really interested in? And the only other thing I would add is that their list of schools which I mentioned was like 13 schools. Yeah. It includes a map. Yeah. Like you've got. Yeah, right. And so you have some US schools at the very top of the heap. You've got some US schools that are, you know, still, I mean all the US schools on the list are you know, top 20 but there's a range there. And then they also have you know, LBS in the uk they've got insead, which could be in Singapore or France or Abu Dhabi I believe and then you know, obviously the Indian School of Business. So it'd be helpful to know like where do they want to be? Because they, we ask on ApplyWire, what's your post MBA location and normally people indicate somewhere and this person says, said wherever I pursue my mba. So they need to think about that. That would be helpful to help them to narrow things down. But anyway I wish them the Best of luck on the test. And yeah, just thinking this through, it sounds like they have the support of their employer and in terms of writing racks and everything. So, you know, can't hurt to take a shot at it. But I want them to focus and think about those goals.
• 33:16
  Speaker B: Yep, very good.
• 33:18
  Speaker A: All right, let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our third candidate this week comes from a decision wire entry. And this person applied to Columbia, Cornell, Tuck, Duke, Michigan, NYU, and uva. And they ended up getting into Cornell initially with a $40,000 scholarship, but that was actually increased to 60,000 as they negotiated a bit. They also got into Stern with no money and Darden with no money. They had a 675 on the GMAT. That's the Focus Edition. So it's actually a 7. Probably equivalent to like a 7, I want to say 720 or so. And then they had a 2.97 undergraduate GPA. So not at the top of the group there. They are thinking about New York City post mba, and they want to work in investment banking. And they mentioned that they been set on going to Cornell since round one, but they were recently accepted off of the NYU Stern wait list, and that's made their decision more difficult. They're torn between sticker price at Stern versus Cornell with $60,000. And the last thing I'll add is that they have a spouse who's going to be moving with them to go to business school. And they mentioned that, you know, money matters and that they're, you know, kind of really want to take the that into consideration. And they're having trouble saying no to the $60,000, but they just kind of want to know, like, if Stern leads to significantly better outcomes, then they would recognize that it might be worth it. But they're curious. So what's your take on this?
• 34:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's likely Stern would provide them slightly better access to opportunities, especially in semester, etc. Etc. Being right in the heart of New York and so forth. But yeah, the good thing about this decision is they'll never know the counterfactual. Right. They choose Johnson. They'll never know what would have happened if they went to Stern and vice versa. So they can make their choice and feel really good about it and go all in. And I think obviously Johnson can provide them some really good opportunities. Investment banking in New York that you would argue is their core strength and so forth. And they're offering that 60,000 and so forth. And the other point that I just Want to make quickly is this is quite a classic case this time of the season, right. You know, candidate got admitted round one or round two is getting all in on going to wherever they got admitted, but then they come off a wait list for a program that potentially offers a little bit more access to whatever opportunities they're looking for. So has the candidate spent the last couple of months, months, you know, imagining their life in, in, in Wherever Johnson is, etc. Etc. Yeah.
• 36:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 36:11
  Speaker B: Thank you. And, and have they already started looking at apartments and so on and so forth? Because, you know, with, with the, with the little bit of a scholarship difference there, I mean, 60,000 is not, not negligible. You, you could make, make the argument that if, if, if, if they're already sort of bought into Goingson, it's certainly not a bad decision.
• 36:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, this is a really interesting one. And you're right, a lot of people are going to face these types of dilemmas with the wait lists and things. But I would just add, the only thing that I thought about a lot is yes, they can reach their goals from either program. Stearns typically ranks higher. It's in New York City. Better access, as you said, during semester. But I would just add that they're really two different experiences as well. I mean, Ithaca is kind of surrounded by nature and hiking and it's just a very different setting. And so I think they need to probably talk with their spouse coming with them. Where would they be happiest? Because that does matter, because as you point out, they could reach their goals from either program. If the money's really important, then there is $60,000 on the table there. And I would argue probably a lower cost of living as well. It's probably more than 60 in terms of what it costs to live in New York. They just need to think that through. Certainly if they go to Stern, they will land the job they want and they'll probably never look back on the fact that they had to spend a bit more. I would just argue there are just two different experiences, the URB versus the kind of more remote setting. So in any event, something for them to noodle on. But congratulations to them on all these great results and I hope that they, you know, as you say, they're not going to make a wrong decision, but hopefully they can find their way here.
• 37:52
  Speaker B: Well, they're not going to know if they made a wrong decision. That's the point.
• 37:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, good point. Exactly. Well, Alex, thanks for picking these out. And next week we'll record from Philadelphia because I'm going to be in Philadelphia. It's the GMAC conference. Clear admit. You know, annual cocktail party. Lots of stuff going on, so I can't wait for that. And I'll catch up with you next week and we'll record again.
• 38:11
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.