Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Renee Good Shooting, Iran’s Silenced Protests & Why Parenting Needs Boundaries

Transcript

Normally Podcast: Renee Good Shooting, Iran’s Silenced Protests & Why Parenting Needs Boundaries · Normally

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, hear about on normally the show with normal
0:08
Speaker 1: wish ticks for when the news gets weird.
0:10
Speaker 2: I am Mary got the Ham and I'm Carol Marcowitz.
0:13
Speaker 2: You know, some days we are like, what should we
0:16
Speaker 2: talk about today? And then other days it's like a
0:20
Speaker 2: deluge of topics. So we're gonna do our best today
0:24
Speaker 2: to squeeze in a bunch of things. But we're gonna
0:27
Speaker 2: have to start here with the very tragic shooting in
0:31
Speaker 2: Minnesota of an activist woman, Renee Good, by an ice
0:36
Speaker 2: agent a few days ago.
0:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's by the way, I took my kids to
0:42
Speaker 1: their first Broadway show this weekend, and so they were
0:45
Speaker 1: up in New York with me. You sleep busy, but
0:47
Speaker 1: I was also working some and by the time, oh,
0:50
Speaker 1: we saw Lion King, they loved it. But by the
0:53
Speaker 1: time we were coming back on the train, more news
0:55
Speaker 1: was breaking, and I just was like, I can't until
0:58
Speaker 1: probably Tuesday. And so, because this requires a lot of
1:03
Speaker 1: thinking and a lot of very different angles, so let
1:08
Speaker 1: me start by saying, like, as somebody you know who
1:10
Speaker 1: has pretty close experience with law enforcement, I am very
1:15
Speaker 1: concerned about the direct action culture of protesting in liberal
1:21
Speaker 1: cities coming together with an ice operation that has not
1:25
Speaker 1: been helped by locals, yeah, and therefore has to be
1:29
Speaker 1: in a bunch of neighborhoods and ends up increasing the
1:33
Speaker 1: number of possibly tense situations you were going to have
1:37
Speaker 1: between officers and civilians, which makes both civilians and officers
1:42
Speaker 1: unsafe in many situations. And I wish that we had
1:49
Speaker 1: observed the cultural norm that putting your body and your
1:53
Speaker 1: vehicle into an active federal law enforcement operation was not
1:58
Speaker 1: a good idea, but we have not preserve that cultural
2:01
Speaker 1: norm in many, many places, and it can end really,
2:04
Speaker 1: really badly.
2:06
Speaker 3: I feel like.
2:06
Speaker 2: There's been a shift in what a lot of people
2:10
Speaker 2: believe interactions with law enforcement should be like, especially and
2:16
Speaker 2: it's hard to avoid this observation, but it's been largely
2:21
Speaker 2: kind of middle class to affluent white women who sort
2:24
Speaker 2: of believe that they could just get in the middle
2:27
Speaker 2: of a police investigation or an ice operation or any
2:32
Speaker 2: number of law enforcement kind of situations and just them
2:37
Speaker 2: being there will make them stop the whole thing.
2:40
Speaker 3: And I think that people.
2:42
Speaker 2: Need to get a grip and realize that's just not
2:45
Speaker 2: how it goes when a law enforcement agent tells you
2:47
Speaker 2: to step out of the car, you step out of
2:50
Speaker 2: the car, you don't gun it. And I think that
2:52
Speaker 2: that's part of what makes society function, is that we
2:55
Speaker 2: do have rules and regulations and laws, and these are
3:00
Speaker 2: the people we have trusted to enforce those laws. I
3:03
Speaker 2: wrote about this in a post column a few days ago.
3:06
Speaker 2: But Democrats are portraying ICE agents as illegitimate because they
3:12
Speaker 2: don't want to say what their position on immigration is.
3:15
Speaker 3: They can't say, hey, we're for open borders and.
3:18
Speaker 2: Anybody who comes in illegally we want to ultimately legalize,
3:21
Speaker 2: because that's electoral death.
3:23
Speaker 3: But they also, you know, so they can't say who
3:27
Speaker 3: they are. But they also can't.
3:28
Speaker 2: Really oppose illegal immigration. So they found this you know,
3:32
Speaker 2: kind of demon for their audience to attack. And that
3:36
Speaker 2: happens to be people who are enforcing the existing laws.
3:40
Speaker 2: And Democrats can't say, well, we should change these laws
3:43
Speaker 2: because they'd never went again.
3:45
Speaker 3: And so this is.
3:46
Speaker 4: Where we are.
3:47
Speaker 1: Well, and look, I so wish that this had ended differently.
3:50
Speaker 1: There were decisions made throughout this interaction that escalated it.
3:56
Speaker 1: I think reasonable people can disagree on whether the off
4:00
Speaker 1: her acted reasonably. To me, if there is a car involved,
4:05
Speaker 1: the officer pretty quickly can go to reasonable fear that
4:09
Speaker 1: something is going to hurt him badly or his fellow
4:12
Speaker 1: officer who was on.
4:12
Speaker 4: The other side of the car.
4:13
Speaker 1: And I don't want to get into all the forensics
4:15
Speaker 1: of it, because there's plenty of that that will happen
4:17
Speaker 1: in court. But once, to me, once a car is involved,
4:19
Speaker 1: you're in pretty safe territory being reasonably reasonably afraid. And
4:24
Speaker 1: I am a little bit mystified by people who don't
4:27
Speaker 1: think a car right is dangerous.
4:29
Speaker 2: They're like, she just tapped him a little, she just
4:31
Speaker 2: grazed him, she hit him with her car.
4:34
Speaker 1: Yes, that is I think again, the cultural norm that
4:38
Speaker 1: you cannot hit law enforcement officers with your car or
4:41
Speaker 1: anyone lay speed at any speed is one worth preserving.
4:47
Speaker 1: But I wish so much this had ended differently. Certainly
4:50
Speaker 1: law enforcement doesn't want it to end this way. But
4:54
Speaker 1: there is a part of this where it's like at
4:57
Speaker 1: each step that you are inserting yourself, you are escalating
5:01
Speaker 1: the situation.
5:02
Speaker 4: As a civilian.
5:02
Speaker 1: Now that may be something that you feel must righteously
5:06
Speaker 1: be done. I want people to be able to robustly
5:09
Speaker 1: protest because there are moments where ice does stuff, and
5:13
Speaker 1: there have been plenty of reports of it where I go, Okay,
5:16
Speaker 1: if you are detaining American citizens, that's a problem. You're
5:19
Speaker 1: making mistakes. If you're detaining them for any length of
5:22
Speaker 1: time without access to lawyers, that's a mistake. You're messing up.
5:25
Speaker 1: There have been questions about recruiting and whether training is
5:29
Speaker 1: commensurate with this giant operation that they have had to
5:33
Speaker 1: take on. Now they have had to take on this
5:35
Speaker 1: giant operation because liberal cities are explicitly not cooperating. There
5:40
Speaker 1: is a way where this gets done because when a
5:45
Speaker 1: criminal is detained, the local police honor the ICE detainer,
5:51
Speaker 1: and then ICE comes to the jail away from everyone
5:54
Speaker 1: and picks up this person.
5:56
Speaker 4: By the way, Bill.
5:57
Speaker 3: Mlujin, Yeah, I was gonna say that, Yeah.
6:00
Speaker 1: The people that they picked up in Minneapolis, that this
6:03
Speaker 1: was an attempt to hundreds.
6:04
Speaker 2: Of people, not like three or four, hundreds and hundreds
6:07
Speaker 2: of people.
6:08
Speaker 4: Well, and importantly the worst of the worst, Yeah, were people.
6:13
Speaker 1: With convictions, sometimes multiple right of child assault, sexual assault,
6:20
Speaker 1: child sexual assault, rape, murder. I mean, these were very
6:25
Speaker 1: serious problems and the practical position of the Jacob Fries
6:29
Speaker 1: of the world, who is the mayor who says he
6:31
Speaker 1: wants his city to be safe, right, is that there
6:35
Speaker 1: is no way that he should cooperate to turn those
6:39
Speaker 1: people over, and therefore there needs to be active weren't
6:45
Speaker 1: serving and arresting elsewhere in the city at all times,
6:47
Speaker 1: That's right. You have created conditions that are gonna be problematic.
6:52
Speaker 4: Yep.
6:53
Speaker 2: And they wouldn't you know, people say these masked agents,
6:56
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be masked if they weren't threatened. They wouldn't
6:59
Speaker 2: be masked if there weren't people explicitly saying we're going
7:03
Speaker 2: to find who you are and do things to you.
7:05
Speaker 3: We've gone so far.
7:07
Speaker 2: I just over the line that I think that it's
7:10
Speaker 2: a scary time to be in law enforcement. And it's
7:14
Speaker 2: the fact that Democrats have rendered these people, you know,
7:17
Speaker 2: illegitimate in the eyes of their base is a real.
7:20
Speaker 3: Big, ongoing problem.
7:22
Speaker 2: And the fact that the violence is so easily and
7:25
Speaker 2: readily excused is just an ongoing issue for all of us.
7:30
Speaker 1: And when it comes to masking, you're right, Carol, that
7:33
Speaker 1: there is an impetus for the masking. I'm on the
7:36
Speaker 1: fence about it. I think it can be really problematic
7:38
Speaker 1: when people are masked, partly because the communication of commands
7:41
Speaker 1: can get more tricky when you're masked, and that is
7:44
Speaker 1: an important part of these interactions. They should always be
7:47
Speaker 1: marked as law enforcement. That is a part that I
7:50
Speaker 1: that's not on the fence about if you come in
7:53
Speaker 1: an unmarked vehicle and you were wearing clothes that do
7:55
Speaker 1: not indicate your organization, that's a problem because people will
7:59
Speaker 1: misread it. In this particular case, she knew she was
8:03
Speaker 1: engaged with law enforcement.
8:04
Speaker 3: He absolutely did.
8:05
Speaker 4: Law enforcement was masked, but very clearly marked.
8:09
Speaker 1: Was clearly the guy in particular who shot was clearly
8:12
Speaker 1: gathering evidence about her car with his video as he
8:16
Speaker 1: was walking around it.
8:18
Speaker 4: And they were aware.
8:20
Speaker 1: Of this the entire time. So that wasn't a miscommunication.
8:24
Speaker 1: Nor were the commands which were I actually did concede.
8:28
Speaker 1: There could be confusing commands. Here were one guy's telling
8:30
Speaker 1: you to leave the scene and another guy saying get
8:33
Speaker 1: out of the car.
8:34
Speaker 4: It didn't appear that way on the video. So I
8:37
Speaker 4: just there's so.
8:39
Speaker 1: Much inability of public officials to be adult about these things.
8:44
Speaker 1: You had a police chief in Portland crying about the
8:49
Speaker 1: fact that he had to reveal that to trende Aragua
8:53
Speaker 1: links people who had been involved in another ice shooting
8:57
Speaker 1: because they tried to run over an ICE agent. You
8:59
Speaker 1: haven't heard a lot about that one because it ended
9:01
Speaker 1: up that those guys.
9:02
Speaker 3: Were disappeared to the news fast.
9:05
Speaker 1: The Portland police chief is crying not because of victims
9:08
Speaker 1: in his community, but because he has to reveal that
9:12
Speaker 1: these people were culpable and that that might reflect badly
9:16
Speaker 1: on other Latinos. Question Mark, I don't I don't know
9:19
Speaker 1: why you're automatically putting trender iuagua and legal you know,
9:22
Speaker 1: citizens in the same bucket. That is not behavior that
9:27
Speaker 1: inspires confidence. Philip Bump can go on TV and cry
9:31
Speaker 1: all day because he's not making decisions about people's lives.
9:34
Speaker 1: But I also should not. But police chiefs are called
9:39
Speaker 1: to do a grown up job and make grown up decisions.
9:41
Speaker 1: And the same goes for Frankly Jade Vance like saying
9:46
Speaker 1: just too much. Like Homan had the right approach where
9:51
Speaker 1: he's like, this is an investigation, we will find out
9:54
Speaker 1: more everyone else, Let's just can we give it a minute?
9:58
Speaker 2: Right they It's very hard to give it a minute
10:01
Speaker 2: when you see the Left turning this guy into you know,
10:07
Speaker 2: a murderous, crazy person who just wanted to kill her
10:11
Speaker 2: for no reason.
10:12
Speaker 3: And oh, his life wasn't threatened.
10:14
Speaker 2: He was just grazed by five thousand, you know, two
10:17
Speaker 2: thousand whatever, every many thousands of pounds cards.
10:20
Speaker 1: I do want to emphasize that it is not in
10:23
Speaker 1: dispute that the car made contact with Oh yeah, that
10:26
Speaker 1: is at any speed.
10:28
Speaker 4: That's just an that's just a pertinent fact.
10:30
Speaker 3: He should have jumped out of the way.
10:32
Speaker 2: They say, like, who are you on your couch watching
10:34
Speaker 2: this thinking like, oh, I would have just.
10:36
Speaker 3: Hopped out of the way. Like Plus, her wife.
10:39
Speaker 2: Was screaming, drive baby drive, and it's you know, she's
10:45
Speaker 2: after it happened. The wife was also screaming, this was
10:48
Speaker 2: my fault. And look, I don't know, maybe maybe maybe
10:52
Speaker 2: you shouldn't have been screaming, drive baby drive.
10:55
Speaker 1: Can we play? So there's another video. I believe this
10:59
Speaker 1: is also out of Minnesota. It is not the same people.
11:01
Speaker 1: There's some allegations that it's the same person.
11:03
Speaker 4: It's not.
11:03
Speaker 1: It's just a woman who arrives at an arrest scene
11:08
Speaker 1: and wants to be involved in it. And she's a
11:10
Speaker 1: civilian and this is the interaction she has with the
11:12
Speaker 1: cops there.
11:13
Speaker 4: Who handle it. Extremely well.
11:15
Speaker 1: It's about a little over a minute long, and this
11:17
Speaker 1: is the kind of thing that can just go very
11:22
Speaker 1: badly because you're putting yourself in a dangerous situation.
11:25
Speaker 4: Let's listen to this clip.
11:27
Speaker 3: I'm far enough away.
11:29
Speaker 4: I'm not influenza. I don't know I needed to get here.
11:32
Speaker 3: No, I won't.
11:34
Speaker 4: It's my right to be here. I will not. You're
11:40
Speaker 4: going to get out of my face.
11:42
Speaker 3: No, I won't tell me why.
11:43
Speaker 4: I'm far enough away from.
11:46
Speaker 3: Beyond our course.
11:47
Speaker 4: Don't touch me. Please.
11:48
Speaker 3: Where's your car?
11:49
Speaker 4: Right here? Where's your that's great? That sure beyond car?
11:55
Speaker 4: I see that white right car.
11:57
Speaker 3: I have a six year old right here.
11:59
Speaker 4: I have a sex right carn't get your child off
12:04
Speaker 4: of the seat. This is an active police seed.
12:07
Speaker 3: This is on camera right now too, right here.
12:09
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm wonderful. I'm very glad for child. Out of
12:11
Speaker 4: here right here. Please see I'm right. I do.
12:17
Speaker 3: Thank you.
12:17
Speaker 4: Listen to me right now. I'm going to listen. But
12:18
Speaker 4: we have someone that's entertained right here. Okay, you have
12:22
Speaker 4: tell me where you need me to go, and I
12:24
Speaker 4: need you to stay no car seat.
12:26
Speaker 3: Okay, give me a favorite.
12:28
Speaker 4: You can videotape all you like, but you have to stay.
12:30
Speaker 4: You cannot come past that driveway, okay, thank.
12:33
Speaker 2: You stay at your car though, Okay, then give them
12:35
Speaker 2: welcome to video.
12:36
Speaker 3: Thank you, give me a favorite my stay hall. We're
12:38
Speaker 3: policeman too.
12:39
Speaker 4: That child is supposed to.
12:40
Speaker 2: Be in a booster seat.
12:41
Speaker 4: He's not of age, so make sure you put him
12:43
Speaker 4: in a booster seat. Because I'd hate to give you
12:45
Speaker 4: a ticket. You can give me a ticket. I'd love it.
12:47
Speaker 3: She'd love it. She would love a ticket.
12:50
Speaker 2: She's like more law enforcement interaction, please, like I need
12:54
Speaker 2: it all.
12:55
Speaker 3: So you brought a child to an ice bust.
12:58
Speaker 1: Lady, Look, it's not it's just not smart. And this
13:02
Speaker 1: went extremely well. The officers handled her beautifully bye by
13:08
Speaker 1: the way, being nice to her and affirming her right.
13:12
Speaker 1: She does have the right to film, and that is
13:14
Speaker 1: important and frankly, a lot of police officers are happy
13:18
Speaker 1: to have body cam and happy to be filmed from
13:21
Speaker 1: many angles because in the age of the body cam
13:24
Speaker 1: it has exonerated a bunch of them. So good cops
13:27
Speaker 1: are happy to be filmed in many places. Now she
13:31
Speaker 1: has her kid with her, she's on this scene. He
13:34
Speaker 1: affirms her right. He tells her where to be. She
13:37
Speaker 1: complies while complaining fine, it all ends fine.
13:42
Speaker 4: These arrests can go so wrong so fast. Yeah, even
13:47
Speaker 4: for people who are trained to be in the area.
13:51
Speaker 3: There's still people you know, just and you have no.
13:54
Speaker 4: Idea who they're arresting or how armed that person is.
13:58
Speaker 4: It's just you are. You cannot do you arrest people.
14:02
Speaker 1: ICE does have certain jurisdiction when it comes to blocking
14:06
Speaker 1: their vehicles, and I just really would encourage people to
14:10
Speaker 1: be careful about the scenes that they are rolling up into. Now,
14:14
Speaker 1: she rolls up into this scene as a woman with
14:16
Speaker 1: a phone, not a woman with a car. That is
14:19
Speaker 1: inherently less problematic for the officers, so they can walk
14:22
Speaker 1: her back to her car. And I pray that all
14:25
Speaker 1: interactions go this smoothly. But when you're increasing the number
14:28
Speaker 1: of the interactions and you're increasing the idea that there
14:32
Speaker 1: aren't consequences for this, you'll get into bad places.
14:37
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Democrats should be grown ups and tell their base
14:42
Speaker 2: to calm down a little bit. You're allowed to film,
14:44
Speaker 2: as these officers said, but you're not allowed to hit
14:47
Speaker 2: people with your car.
14:48
Speaker 3: That's really where we draw the line.
14:51
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more on normally talking about
14:54
Speaker 2: the amazing, brave protesters in Iran.
14:59
Speaker 1: Be're right back, right, Carol, another sort of generationally important
15:07
Speaker 1: news story happening while this very complicated story in Minnesota
15:11
Speaker 1: was unfolding, And that is ongoing protests in Iran, which
15:16
Speaker 1: you know, my ideology happens to be burn government buildings
15:19
Speaker 1: in Tehran, not Minneapolis. That's my particular vibe, and I'm
15:24
Speaker 1: glad to see it happening.
15:26
Speaker 4: It seems to be spreading. Trump has of course said.
15:29
Speaker 1: On social and I think verbally, that he would stand
15:32
Speaker 1: up for protesters if the regime cracked down on them.
15:35
Speaker 1: There are reports that the regime is cracking down on protesters.
15:39
Speaker 3: Yep.
15:40
Speaker 1: Some doctors reporting and getting some information out that hundreds
15:43
Speaker 1: perhaps have been admitted to hospitals or even killed. And
15:46
Speaker 1: I'm not sure where exactly this goes, but it does
15:48
Speaker 1: seem more just in numbers and energy than it has
15:53
Speaker 1: in the past when Iranians have risen up.
15:56
Speaker 2: That's right, And you know, if you're reading the New
15:59
Speaker 2: York Times the Washington Post, this is barely a blip.
16:02
Speaker 2: They are covering it like it's you know, not a
16:07
Speaker 2: big deal, and really just I don't.
16:09
Speaker 3: See any rooting for this.
16:11
Speaker 2: On the left at all, which just makes no sense.
16:14
Speaker 2: Can we go back to the left that would have
16:16
Speaker 2: loved this kind of thing, like why can't we all
16:19
Speaker 2: be united to want Iran, you know, to not free itself. Right,
16:25
Speaker 2: I'm not naive enough to imagine they're going to be free,
16:28
Speaker 2: but at least to throw off the Mullahs, to gain
16:31
Speaker 2: some independence, to have some normal see it was a
16:34
Speaker 2: normal country.
16:36
Speaker 3: You know, this idea that the left is supposed to.
16:39
Speaker 2: Just oppose everything that Trump supports and therefore can't stand
16:43
Speaker 2: up for the people that around at all.
16:45
Speaker 1: I hate that well, and it's such an obviously human
16:49
Speaker 1: rights focused story, free speech focused story.
16:53
Speaker 4: Things that they.
16:56
Speaker 2: Right, feminism, feminism is the feminists and sportant one.
17:00
Speaker 1: As well, and I think you know, it doesn't fit
17:03
Speaker 1: the narrative that they want to be talking about right now. Yeah,
17:07
Speaker 1: and it's confusing for them. And again, because Trump is supportive,
17:12
Speaker 1: they got their brains just go I must.
17:14
Speaker 4: Be against, which is not the case.
17:17
Speaker 1: It would be hugely wonderful for the world if if
17:20
Speaker 1: they were able to overthrow current leadership, which by the way,
17:23
Speaker 1: is beset by economic problems and monetary problems. The loss
17:27
Speaker 1: of its proxies thanks to Israel, the loss of its
17:30
Speaker 1: nuclear program thanks to US.
17:32
Speaker 4: The age of its awful leader.
17:34
Speaker 1: You know, it's facing a lot of handicaps right now,
17:37
Speaker 1: and yeah, a little bit of cheerleading from the West
17:40
Speaker 1: would be great. It has been good to see people
17:43
Speaker 1: of Iranian and Venezuelan dissent happily flooded social media with
17:50
Speaker 1: like Let me explain this to you exactly, because I
17:55
Speaker 1: do think people who are left leaning and of good
17:57
Speaker 1: faith are more perhaps more willing to hear that from
18:01
Speaker 1: the people who have fled those regimes.
18:05
Speaker 2: Right there was a great tweet by somebody named I
18:09
Speaker 2: don't know her, but she works atij and her name
18:12
Speaker 2: is Tamina de Bazorgi. I'm sorry if I'm butchering that,
18:17
Speaker 2: but I won't read the whole twet because it's quite long,
18:19
Speaker 2: but I just want to say these two paragraphs. The
18:22
Speaker 2: Western liberal media is ignoring the Iranian uprising because explaining
18:26
Speaker 2: it would force an admission it is desperate to avoid.
18:28
Speaker 2: The Iranian people are rebelling against Islam itself, and that
18:32
Speaker 2: fact shatters the moral framework through which these institutions understand
18:36
Speaker 2: the world. Ideally to cover and uprising is not just
18:39
Speaker 2: to show crowds and slogans. It requires answering a basic question.
18:42
Speaker 2: Why are people risking death in Iran? The answer is
18:45
Speaker 2: simple and unavoidable. The people are rising up because the
18:48
Speaker 2: Islamic Republic of Iran has spent decades suffocating every aspect
18:52
Speaker 2: of life, speech, work, family, art, women, and economics survival
18:56
Speaker 2: under a clerical system that treats liberty as a crime.
19:00
Speaker 2: There's no way to tell that story without confronting the
19:02
Speaker 2: nature of the regime.
19:03
Speaker 3: It's difficult to argue with that.
19:05
Speaker 2: It's that and she goes on to say that in
19:08
Speaker 2: the West, Islam has become kind of shorthand for brown
19:12
Speaker 2: people or Arabs or the Middle East. It's as if
19:15
Speaker 2: Islam were a skin color rather than a doctrine. And
19:18
Speaker 2: this is the problem that a lot of leftist outlets have.
19:22
Speaker 2: They have drawn this line for themselves where they're always
19:27
Speaker 2: on the side of the brown people, and they've decided
19:31
Speaker 2: that Islam means brown people, and so they will be
19:34
Speaker 2: pro Islam. None of it makes any sense, and it
19:38
Speaker 2: actually clashes with a lot of their other beliefs, as
19:40
Speaker 2: we pointed out, but this one trumps them all well.
19:44
Speaker 1: And it forgets how urbane and modern and good for women.
19:50
Speaker 4: Iran was before right the Mullas took over.
19:54
Speaker 1: That's something they sort of can't confront and therefore, and
19:58
Speaker 1: it's not to say that police actions in this country
20:01
Speaker 1: cannot be unjust. They certainly can, and officers haven't have
20:05
Speaker 1: a duty to be smart about how they interact with civilians,
20:09
Speaker 1: but instead they focus on this sort of total loss
20:12
Speaker 1: of perspective that we are Venezuela or we are Aron, right,
20:17
Speaker 1: and that these are analogous when we're having a conversation
20:20
Speaker 1: about policing. Yeah, and they lose gross total perspective about
20:24
Speaker 1: this exactly as the Iranian Americans and Venezuela and Americans
20:27
Speaker 1: are definitely noticing.
20:29
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
20:30
Speaker 2: So this kind of a side note to this whole thing,
20:33
Speaker 2: This really weird thing happened with Democrats over the weekend
20:37
Speaker 2: where they suddenly realize Hamas is bad and they all posted.
20:42
Speaker 2: The first one I saw was AOC she was criticizing
20:46
Speaker 2: protesters and queens who were chanting pro Hamas slogans, and
20:50
Speaker 2: she basically said that this is antisemitic, and everybody on
20:54
Speaker 2: Twitter went, what why why is she saying this? Where
20:58
Speaker 2: does this come from right, and then it was a
21:00
Speaker 2: pylon including Zornmumdani mayor z Armumdani, who was unable to
21:06
Speaker 2: condemn the phrase globalize the Intofada not that long ago,
21:09
Speaker 2: was suddenly condemning globalizing the Intofada. And I saw some
21:13
Speaker 2: people saying that it could be tied to the idea
21:17
Speaker 2: that Iran is about to fall or you know, in danger,
21:21
Speaker 2: and these people want to be on the right side
21:23
Speaker 2: of history.
21:24
Speaker 3: But I'm not sure that that's it.
21:25
Speaker 1: What do you think this seemed all very coordinated and
21:28
Speaker 1: all of a sudden. Part of it, I think is
21:30
Speaker 1: that the chance of this particular crowd made very very
21:33
Speaker 1: explicit that they were pro Hamas. There was no covering
21:36
Speaker 1: it with like the Palestinian cause, with a couple of
21:39
Speaker 1: Hamas flags thrown in. It was like, no, no, no,
21:42
Speaker 1: we want to be very clear. We love Hamas in
21:46
Speaker 1: the world. Are like, could you be like atl which
21:48
Speaker 1: is a tiny bit less clear because I need to
21:49
Speaker 1: have plausible deniability. So that might have been part of it,
21:53
Speaker 1: but I think it's been fairly obvious all along, right
21:56
Speaker 1: they support Hamas. Is it a move by the left
22:00
Speaker 1: seeing the tuckerisms of the right, seems more likely, and
22:04
Speaker 1: the groper class ascendant in some way, although I don't
22:08
Speaker 1: think it's as a sndate among Normans would suggest, But
22:11
Speaker 1: is it their intention to highlight that and to make
22:15
Speaker 1: it part of their pitch in twenty twenty six, like
22:17
Speaker 1: hey guys, we're hi.
22:19
Speaker 4: Ju's We're back right right?
22:20
Speaker 2: Look, you know, I think that's it. If I had
22:24
Speaker 2: to guess, I would say that that is it. There
22:26
Speaker 2: are not that many Gropers and there are not that
22:28
Speaker 2: many Tuckers on the right, but they are allowed, and
22:32
Speaker 2: they exist, and you know, the truth is that the
22:37
Speaker 2: administration is not doing a great job at beating them back.
22:40
Speaker 3: Tucker was at.
22:41
Speaker 2: The White House for a meeting with oil executives from
22:45
Speaker 2: you know, dealing with Venezuela a few days ago.
22:48
Speaker 3: Who invited him? Why was he there? All of that,
22:50
Speaker 3: you know is a question mark.
22:52
Speaker 1: If it were me, I simply would not invite people
22:55
Speaker 1: who talk junk about me every day to my.
22:57
Speaker 3: House, you think, right.
22:59
Speaker 2: So I don't know if people saying JD and you know,
23:02
Speaker 2: Vance invited him, I don't know if that's true.
23:06
Speaker 3: It could have easily been Donald Trump.
23:08
Speaker 2: He is a very wants to like everybody wants to
23:11
Speaker 2: be liked by everybody guy for better or for sometimes worse,
23:16
Speaker 2: and so I don't know, Yeah, I think that that's right.
23:18
Speaker 2: Though you'll notice that the New York Times, for example,
23:22
Speaker 2: isn't reporting on all of Tucker's deranged commentary. He kind
23:27
Speaker 2: of is getting a pass from them. And don't think
23:29
Speaker 2: that's because they like him now. It's because they're going
23:31
Speaker 2: to use that against Republicans in the midterms or in
23:35
Speaker 2: twenty eight. They're keeping their powder dry, and that is
23:40
Speaker 2: why you're not hearing the Tucker and Groper people being
23:45
Speaker 2: tied to Republicans quite yet, but we certainly will be
23:49
Speaker 2: hearing that soon.
23:50
Speaker 3: But here's a question I have.
23:51
Speaker 2: You know, my husband, who is a big normy, big
23:53
Speaker 2: fan of the show, asked me who sends them this script?
23:58
Speaker 2: Why do Democrats all end up using the exact same language?
24:02
Speaker 2: And my husband was like, is it the DNC? And
24:04
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, it's definitely not the DNC, because
24:06
Speaker 2: AOC would take that, you know, note and throw it
24:08
Speaker 2: in the garbage if it's the d NC. So it
24:10
Speaker 2: has to be somebody somebody is coordinating this, and that
24:14
Speaker 2: is a story that I would love for the New
24:16
Speaker 2: York Times or like semaphore to tell where is this
24:20
Speaker 2: coming from?
24:21
Speaker 4: Also, why don't they make it slightly less obvious? And
24:23
Speaker 4: this goes for anyone who gets these.
24:26
Speaker 1: Like just a tiny bit, a little tiny bit, so
24:29
Speaker 1: you're not all doing the exact same tweet at the
24:33
Speaker 1: same time.
24:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't.
24:35
Speaker 1: I don't know, but this one very clearly was a
24:39
Speaker 1: a heel turn. Yeah, and and about face to everybody.
24:44
Speaker 1: Everybody has the meme goes installed their new chip like
24:47
Speaker 1: it's bad actually, and I would love to join latecomers
24:51
Speaker 1: in the Hamasis bad camp. However, I am somewhat skeptical
24:55
Speaker 1: of their sty Yeah.
24:58
Speaker 2: So in other news, if we're going to just keep
25:00
Speaker 2: in this topic, Vein, the oldest synagogue in Mississippi was
25:06
Speaker 2: attacked with fire over the weekend. A suspect has been
25:10
Speaker 2: charged with arson. No name yet for that suspect. A
25:14
Speaker 2: lot of people are tagging me on X but I
25:16
Speaker 2: don't know yet, so I'll keep posted if I hear anything.
25:21
Speaker 3: It's a really terrible story.
25:23
Speaker 2: It's, you know, again, the oldest synagogue in Mississippi. It
25:27
Speaker 2: should be a gigantic story that this kind of thing
25:30
Speaker 2: is going on in America. You know, I would hope
25:33
Speaker 2: that bigger the stories like this would be kind of
25:37
Speaker 2: more front and center. We're doing our best on here,
25:40
Speaker 2: but it really should be more of a story.
25:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to note from New York Times
25:44
Speaker 1: the synagogue's library, where the fire originated and surrounding rooms
25:47
Speaker 1: were severely damaged. Mister Felson said, the rabbi, I believe
25:52
Speaker 1: reduced to blackened, charred ruins. There is smoke damage throughout
25:55
Speaker 1: the building. Two torahs in the library were destroyed, which
25:58
Speaker 1: is just like a life time of work because those
26:01
Speaker 1: are hand made, by hand written.
26:05
Speaker 4: One was one.
26:06
Speaker 1: Survived, which was in a glass case, which was a
26:09
Speaker 1: toro rescued during the Holocaust.
26:11
Speaker 4: So that's a little bright spot in there.
26:13
Speaker 1: Really awful news and like you said, something that should
26:16
Speaker 1: be larger news. By the way, Charles Felton, excuse me
26:18
Speaker 1: as the chief of investigations for the fire department that
26:21
Speaker 1: is looking into this.
26:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, prayers to the people in Mississippi. Glad nobody
26:26
Speaker 2: was hurt. At least that's a bright spot and looking
26:29
Speaker 2: forward to hearing.
26:30
Speaker 3: Who the suspect is.
26:32
Speaker 2: All Right, we'll be right back with one more segment
26:34
Speaker 2: of normally let's talk about parenting.
26:36
Speaker 3: Why not?
26:41
Speaker 1: Alrighty Carol, We're back on normally with a little parenting chat.
26:44
Speaker 4: There's always a parenting discussion going on on the internet.
26:48
Speaker 4: This one lit a.
26:48
Speaker 1: Little viral yesterday because someone was critiquing a public intellectual
26:54
Speaker 1: assort Scott Alexander, I believe, founder of Slate star Codex,
26:59
Speaker 1: which is sort of a liberty harryan Silicon Valley Sinky
27:03
Speaker 1: blog at any rate, someone was picking on him, or
27:06
Speaker 1: not picking on him, but critiquing him for publicizing that
27:11
Speaker 1: he can't get his toddlers to bed and saying, hey,
27:15
Speaker 1: if this is like the rationalist intellectual part of this
27:18
Speaker 1: movement and they can't control three year olds, Like, what
27:23
Speaker 1: does that mean this movement control this movement, by the way,
27:27
Speaker 1: it's called the Gray Tribe rationalists. But he tells a
27:30
Speaker 1: fairly normalish story about putting his kid to bed and
27:35
Speaker 1: all the things that his kid wants with they give
27:38
Speaker 1: a ten minutes to bedtime warning, they give a five
27:40
Speaker 1: minutes to bedtime war. His kid then wants food, and
27:43
Speaker 1: this is an interesting part because he knows we're softies
27:46
Speaker 1: and won't let him go to bed hungry.
27:48
Speaker 4: They let him eat.
27:50
Speaker 1: Again, and then they try to take him away from
27:53
Speaker 1: his food and he screams my food, my food, my food,
27:55
Speaker 1: my food, my food because it worked.
27:56
Speaker 4: The first time. And they're just.
27:57
Speaker 3: Caught in this the kitten charge.
28:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, constant thing, or they can't get their kid to bed,
28:03
Speaker 1: And I like, I'm not going to hate on you, dude,
28:06
Speaker 1: but here's the deal.
28:08
Speaker 4: You're in charge, be the parent, you're the parents.
28:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's very hard to give parenting advice
28:16
Speaker 2: because you know, kids change, your situation changes.
28:20
Speaker 3: It's like the idea that you're you're so good at.
28:24
Speaker 2: The parenting that you've raised your kids and you want
28:27
Speaker 2: to give advice to others.
28:28
Speaker 3: It's tough. It's a tough little line to walk.
28:31
Speaker 2: But my kids are fifteen, twelve, and ten, so I
28:34
Speaker 2: could comment on the toddler years and say, you have
28:38
Speaker 2: to be authoritarian. You're the king here. Okay, this is
28:43
Speaker 2: not a democracy. Your kids do not get a vote.
28:45
Speaker 2: And that's really where these kinds of people have to
28:48
Speaker 2: understand that they are in charge. And the other thing
28:51
Speaker 2: that I will tell them, this is the crazy thing
28:52
Speaker 2: that I hear a lot parents who are like, well,
28:55
Speaker 2: will my kids still love me if I yell at
28:57
Speaker 2: them like, oh, I assure.
28:58
Speaker 3: You they will still love you. Yell. I yell quite
29:01
Speaker 3: a bit. Actually.
29:03
Speaker 4: Also, here's the thing.
29:04
Speaker 1: Look, yes, same as you with the caveat and parenting advice.
29:08
Speaker 1: This this thing could go sideways any minute, any minute, right.
29:11
Speaker 1: But having been there with toddlers and having learned through
29:14
Speaker 1: several children, because I think I was too tough in
29:16
Speaker 1: my expectations of my first kid and then realizing it
29:19
Speaker 1: was developmentally appropriate at various times, we just had too
29:24
Speaker 1: many standoffs that were not necessary and I should have
29:26
Speaker 1: just been like, oh, you're two and a half. But
29:29
Speaker 1: I do think there's a lot of people responding to
29:31
Speaker 1: this who are like, no, this is just like how
29:34
Speaker 1: toddlers act, and that's true. Look, maybe you haven't decided
29:38
Speaker 1: that bedtime is the battle you want to fight, right,
29:41
Speaker 1: You're gonna let the kids sort of dictate that. If
29:43
Speaker 1: that's your decision and you've got other things under control, fine.
29:47
Speaker 4: I do think what people miss is that children need
29:51
Speaker 4: you to be they do.
29:54
Speaker 1: Your three year old doesn't know when he needs to
29:56
Speaker 1: eat food. You know when he needs to eat food. Yeah,
30:00
Speaker 1: And a simple fix for this would be, Hey, Bud,
30:04
Speaker 1: I know you're hungry sometimes at bedtime, but we have
30:06
Speaker 1: dinner at this time, and after six o'clock or seven
30:09
Speaker 1: o'clock or whatever it is, we do no more. Right,
30:12
Speaker 1: So when he asks for food again, you say, babe,
30:15
Speaker 1: there's the clock. You see the six we're learning six
30:17
Speaker 1: is it's past six, So we will not be adding anything.
30:21
Speaker 4: But let's go upstairs and read your book.
30:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, redirect for sure, and understand that these toddlers
30:28
Speaker 2: are playing you.
30:29
Speaker 3: They are smart. They're not dumb.
30:31
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, they're little and they're not really fully developed,
30:34
Speaker 2: but like, they are smart and they know how to
30:37
Speaker 2: play you.
30:38
Speaker 3: So when the kid is greaping my food, they know
30:41
Speaker 3: what it's going to do to you.
30:42
Speaker 1: He knows exactly if he admits, he knows exactly what
30:46
Speaker 1: is his weak spot. And the kid knows what the
30:49
Speaker 1: weak spot is. And like I said, choose your battles.
30:51
Speaker 1: But if this is plaguing you and your kid isn't
30:54
Speaker 1: getting enough sleep and you're having constant negotiations, draw the
30:59
Speaker 1: line in the sand and stick with it because you
31:02
Speaker 1: are the one who knows what.
31:03
Speaker 4: Should happen here, and you shouldn't trust that judgment to
31:07
Speaker 4: the three year old. And it is not cruel to
31:10
Speaker 4: not give the reins to a three year old.
31:12
Speaker 3: That's right, and sleep is the most important battle.
31:15
Speaker 2: I'll just add that at the you know to as
31:18
Speaker 2: our final note, because sleep it makes everything else good
31:21
Speaker 2: or bad. When you're not sleeping, when nobody's sleeping in
31:24
Speaker 2: the house, everything turns to you know and it's it's
31:27
Speaker 2: not a good situation. So get the sleep figured out
31:30
Speaker 2: and then you can decide whether other battles are worth fighting.
31:33
Speaker 3: But the sleep one is always worth fighting.
31:35
Speaker 1: I'm with you on that one, and people have different
31:38
Speaker 1: ways of fighting it.
31:39
Speaker 4: Like I used to be less scheduled, but.
31:41
Speaker 1: Now like I got two kids who are on their
31:43
Speaker 1: schedule and they sleep well, and I'm like, hold's with it.
31:48
Speaker 3: Well.
31:48
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
31:51
Speaker 2: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
31:54
Speaker 2: in touch with us at normally theepod at gmail dot com.
31:58
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally