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Beek on being a COMMUNITY · Beek on being

• 0:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: Hi. I hope you are well. This podcast is a place for people to share personal and professional perspectives, talk openly, and ask questions. From serious to silly to sublime, it's all about communication and connection. Always coming from a place of kindness and curiosity, we talk about shared humanity, discuss ideas, and highlight people creating a better world.
• 0:23
  We've got to keep learning, keep growing, keep being. I'm Melissa Beek, and this is Beek on being. Today's episode is Beek on being a community. At our core, we are social. Being part of a community helps us connect to others, gives us a sense of belonging, a source of support, shared emotional connection.
• 0:44
  It makes us more compassionate, more understanding, benefits our mental health and well-being. Right now, our community feels fractured. How do we find a path forward together, not just taking care of our immediate family and friends, but the greater global community? In studio today, we welcome back Rabbi Fred Klein, Senior Director of Mishna Miami and Rabbi of Greater Miami Jewish Federation and Reverend Doctor. Theo Johnson, Senior Pastor of Sweet Home Missionary Baptist Church to share with us about why community connection is so important and how it affects not only our immediate future, but generations to come.
• 1:22
  So welcome back. We had so much fun in studio last time with both of you. We had to get you back in. We had a good time. I know today's another heavy discussion.
• 1:33
  I told you earlier before we started, I like to throw the heavy stuff at you guys.
• 1:37
  because you can handle it. So, but I know you're up for the challenge. Right?
• 1:41
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Let's hope. Okay.
• 1:42
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. So for those of you who haven't listened yet to the spirituality episode that we did, please tell our listeners a little bit about yourselves and how you got into your professions.
• 1:53
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I'll let the rabbi go first.
• 1:55
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, I grew up in South Florida. I went to a Jewish parochial school on Miami Beach, and I always saw myself as a seeker. Undergraduate at university, I decided to study, religious studies to understand the different journeys of people and how they construct truth and meaning in their life. And that's part of, I think, my vocation in life is really to hear as a chaplain the stories of different people and different journeys and how they construct their own sense of meaning. It's not only about what I believe, but it's also the beliefs of others, which is why I'm always honored to be in dialogue with people from all different perspectives.
• 2:35
  I think it's so important, especially in a time of division like we are in these days.
• 2:39
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. Well, that was a great introduction. Well, thank you first of all, Melissa. Thank you so much for being back again. I enjoyed being with you guys the last time.
• 2:50
  I am pastor Theo Johnson. I am from Dallas, Texas, but been here about sixteen years, and I pastor a church in this area. And so like brother Rabbi, I was not seeking, but I grew up in the church. And so one of the things that I was always curious is that we all seem to have so many differences, but what do we have as a commonality? And so as I went to theology school, I realized that the more that I learned, I discovered what I did not know.
• 3:26
  And so I've been on the search to see how to connect with individuals and see how we are more alike than we are different. And so that's been my life's journey is really to be a bridge builder, more so than a person who create barriers. And so I'm just on this journey to connect with Find people that I see on a consistent basis because I believe we have more in common than we do not have in common.
• 3:55
  Melissa Shere Beek: Agreed. So now every time I tell the viewers about the reverend and the rabbi, they think I'm setting them up for a joke. And I'm like, no, seriously, they're friends. Can you tell everyone how you met and became friends?
• 4:06
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I forgot. I mean, we were at some interfaith.
• 4:11
  Rabbi Fred Klein: We were at an interfaith dialogue and we started getting to know one another.
• 4:15
  Pastor Theo Johnson: We did.
• 4:16
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And we shared bread.
• 4:18
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yes.
• 4:18
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And we still have to do it
• 4:20
  Pastor Theo Johnson: again. Absolutely. Absolutely. But
• 4:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: that's how we got to know each other, just in dialogue with one another.
• 4:26
  Pastor Theo Johnson: And it's been a few years now. And so it's been a great friendship because anytime I have someone who I can call and just genuinely ask questions or have concerns, and he's able to talk to me and help teach me some things. I'm just always appreciative. So I just I I appreciate you.
• 4:47
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And that's really mutual. That's why I suggested when you reached out to me.
• 4:52
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Oh, brilliant.
• 4:53
  Rabbi Fred Klein: He was my man.
• 4:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: It was a brilliant call, Rabbi.
• 4:56
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Brilliant call. I like it.
• 4:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: So today, we're talking about community.
• 5:00
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 5:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: Ugh. We can we kind of define what community is?
• 5:06
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Wow. Community. Now I know different people probably will define it different ways, but for me, community is more than a location or proximity. Community for me would be more of a collaboration or a coagulation of shared ideas, responsibilities, commitment, and a commonality of care and concern for each other. So it goes beyond a neighborhood and it gets into us as an individual entity.
• 5:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: Values, moral compass.
• 5:41
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yes. Yeah.
• 5:42
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. I just pick up on what, reverend Johnson said. You know, there are different words in Hebrew for community. One of them is the word Eda. Eda comes from the word Edut.
• 5:54
  Edut means testimony. Eda is a community, but it's a community based upon a certain goal. And very often in life, we'll gather for a specific purpose. Like in the Jewish tradition, you need 10 individuals for a quorum for prayer. So everybody's there together.
• 6:11
  Yes. A minion. Everyone's there together for the purpose of the prayer. But after the it's over, everyone goes in their certain ways. Political parties or different political action committees, they come together for specific purposes.
• 6:25
  They're utilitarian, and and our society, we live in a lot of different communities like that, and they are important communities. But there's another community which I think you touched on, which is the idea of kihila. Kihila means gathering. I don't want to just gather on a specific goal. I want to be a person in a community.
• 6:47
  I want my story to be known, and I want to hear the stories of others. I wanna live in a living relationship with one another. And I think that that's a very powerful idea. That we don't need to have the same views. Just like a family, we don't need to have the same views about everything.
• 7:02
  In fact, very often there'll be disagreement. But to witness others' lives, be there for their joy and celebrations, and also to be witnessed. Because so many people today feel invisible. And that's a real problem. Community is, in its idealist sense, I see you.
• 7:19
  You are there. And so that's what especially today, I think community is such an important purpose.
• 7:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Wanna go
• 7:27
  Rabbi Fred Klein: further on that
• 7:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: because that was my next question was why is community so important? So I think you touched upon one of the main factors is loneliness. I I know in our Jewish tradition, dominion after someone passes, and you're supposed to go to dominion every morning for eleven months. Some say twelve, some say eleven, depending on what you think about the soul. That's a whole other thing.
• 7:53
  And I heard one rabbi say to a widow who did not want to come that it was important because community was important, and it was a way for them to foster a new community for themselves being alone and to combat loneliness. So can you expand upon why community is important? I know you just said a little bit about loneliness, but why is community so important?
• 8:21
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, you're just reminding me. I've been running a group of parents that have lost children every other week. And we come together. There are people from all over the country that are joining. It's a Jewish group of parents.
• 8:35
  And very often, they wanna talk about their children that have died and all kinds of deaths. And people say, get over it. It's time to move on. And we were talking right before about some other events that were coming up and how hard it is to celebrate holidays and events alone. And just for the other participants to be there and to hear their voices provided great relief.
• 9:02
  And that's what the kind of community that I'm talking about. It's not I'm gonna provide you x y z resource, but rather the presence of other people being fully present and fully attentive is so helpful in a healing journey. So I think that that's the kind of community that we really need. And I think people at all levels in society are pretty desperate for right now.
• 9:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Being heard.
• 9:27
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 9:29
  Pastor Theo Johnson: You know, at at you know, we are we are stronger together. And when we're together, I see you, I feel you, I'm there with you. And as you just were talking about children, parents who lost children, was just a good friend of mine from high school, tragically lost his son last year to a drunk driver. And he and I happened to be on the phone yesterday. And he said through this process, he and I had gotten closer because his son actually was killed here in Florida.
• 10:03
  He's in Dallas. He said, People oftentimes neglect calling because they don't know what to say. And I told him, I said, Well, I don't know what to say, but I want you to know I'm here with you. And he said, That's all I'm asking for is for someone to be here with me as I'm going through this painful journey. And I think that's the value of community, because when you're by yourself, you're almost in a sense incomplete.
• 10:32
  You and I were talking about New York City, and we're talking about how many people are there. You can be in the biggest city in the world and still be lonely.
• 10:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: Stay lonely.
• 10:40
  Pastor Theo Johnson: And we don't have connection. And so I just believe we're stronger together. That word, I think I said it the last time, is this South African phrase, umbuntu, which means I am because we are. We are interconnected, interdependent on each other. And so it's like community is above individuality.
• 10:59
  Right. And we we are there for each other. So we're stronger together.
• 11:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. And then it continues the theme of what I was thinking about, what it provides, not just combating loneliness, but what you were saying about it just provides support being present with the person. What you said too, I'm here. I may not have the answers, we may not know where we're going, but I'm with you.
• 11:23
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I think so many times people are afraid for that. One of one of my favorite movies actually is George Clooney Up in the Air. And if you remember the movie, it's about a person who his job is to terminate people. So he's a consultant. He goes from across the country.
• 11:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 11:41
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And he's uprooting people's jobs. And then he does gives seminars on how to travel light and unburden yourself from life. So he lives in a very simple apartment. He moves from place to place, and his goal in life is to get the elite status for American Airlines.
• 12:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 12:01
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And you see him flying all the time, but that's the metaphor for his life. It's very unrooted life. That's what he does. And he's afraid to make that kind of existential commitment because that's scary.
• 12:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 12:13
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That's scary to be burdened. There's a book by Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, I but that's mean, people, I think, very often feel like, I don't wanna get burdened. Parents will say to their children, I don't wanna be a burden on you. But really, that's the way of life. When we are burdened in certain ways, we feel more powerful.
• 12:37
  We flex our emotional muscles. We're able to give to one another and we are able to receive receive support. That movie at the end, if you remember, he has all these miles, but no one to share it with. Right. Because he hasn't burdened his life.
• 12:52
  Right. He hasn't created those relationships which are worthwhile and meaningful. Right. And he realizes it, so gives it to his sister.
• 13:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 13:01
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So they can enjoy the world. So, you know, I think I think community is a way for us in relationship to empower ourselves to kind of create a bigger circle of what it means to live in this world as a human being. And so according to the burden is also the reward.
• 13:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. So expand upon that because, I mean, at least how I grew up is and some people say it's like a sandwich situation right now, but family took care of family. You always took care. If it was your grandparents or your grandparents, they'd move into your house, you'd take care of them. My father was ill, we took care of him.
• 13:41
  I mean, that's what you did. There was nothing about burdening or not burdening. I mean, yeah, you don't want to be a burden to anybody, but if someone in your house isn't well or they feel sick or something's going on, the first thing you do is run to help. You be present with them. So why is it now that in community or in the greater community that isn't a knee jerk reaction to assist or to help.
• 14:09
  I mean, what are we doing as far as not perpetuating this for future generations to come? Where did that fracture happen? And why or how can we change it so going forward we can help the generations that come after us?
• 14:28
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Wow. I
• 14:29
  Melissa Shere Beek: know. I threw a lot at you.
• 14:30
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. I don't know if this is true, in its totality, but it just seems like people have become more self centered and self focused and, self isolated. There was a time when we knew who our neighbors were. There was a time, and I don't know about necessarily the Jewish community, but I know the community I grew up in, your neighbor was able to help raise you. The person down the street was able to help speak life into you.
• 15:01
  So you wouldn't get into certain things because you know you had several different people who cared for you. Now I don't even know who my neighbors are a lot of times, even my son doesn't even grow up in the same community where he goes to school, whereas that was different for us when we grew up. So it just seems like there's more of an individualism now, whereas we got the American dream, we got the white picket fence, but that fence have kept people out, so to speak. And so Right.
• 15:33
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. I mean, I think it also reflects part of the American ethos, which is the pioneer spirit that the individual and that drives a lot of innovation in our country. It drives a lot of creativity, but it also can drive a lot of isolation. Other societies, you know, like more Eastern societies are more collectivist in their thinking. I think there has to be a good balance between my own need for self realization and the multiple networks of relationship and bonds that connect us, which include family, but it's not limited to family.
• 16:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. I mean, it could be family of choice. It doesn't have to be birth family. Could be family
• 16:17
  Rabbi Fred Klein: of That's right. Yeah.
• 16:19
  Melissa Shere Beek: I mean, okay. I feel like inherently when you talk to individuals, they share the same values. They share the same idea of wanting to be treated or treat others as they want to be treated. So where does that fracture come from, this sort of individual approach?
• 16:45
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think a lot recently, to be honest, is from social media.
• 16:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: I was that was one of my questions coming up. Okay.
• 16:52
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Social media, I think, is really pulling people apart.
• 16:57
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mhmm.
• 16:57
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 16:57
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think that there's a lot of disinformation out there that leads to fear of the other and hate. And also people feel validated when they can point fingers at other people, say, they're the reason why the world is the way it is. If it wasn't for this person or this nation or this group, everything would be okay. Where really it's a projection of their own insufficiencies very often on the other. True.
• 17:25
  Right? And that's not a healthy way of being. Like blaming others for the faults of society, a moral person takes responsibility for society, owns the problems, looks inward and says, how can I be part of the solution? But we don't have to think just about the political level. I mean, if you think about one of the most debasing ways that we destroy community is gossip.
• 17:52
  One of the biggest sins in the Jewish tradition-
• 17:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: Lashon Hara.
• 17:56
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Is, know, which is speaking ill about other people. Right? And according to rabbinic tradition, actually, it's akin to murder. So it's obviously not murdering somebody.
• 18:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 18:09
  Rabbi Fred Klein: But if we believe that each person is an image of God, if a person walks through this world with a name, a reputation, and if we believe a person's in the image of God, every time we say something about another individual, it's sort of we diminish their image in this world. A little bit by little by little by little. Wonderful Hasidic story about a man that wanted to do repentance after speaking ill about another person. And so he went to a rabbi and said, Rabbi, like, I gotta I feel so bad about what I did. I have to, like, repent.
• 18:45
  Mhmm. So the rabbi said, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go on top of a roof, and I want you to take a pillow of feathers. Says, yeah. And then, okay, when you get up there, right, I want you to rip open the pillow, and then and then spread the the feathers into the wind.
• 19:02
  So yeah, then what? Now I want you to go collect them. Well, that's impossible to collect them. He says, that's the impact of gossip.
• 19:09
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's the impact.
• 19:09
  Rabbi Fred Klein: You can never undo things you're doing. So we create this kind of toxic culture of dehumanization. There's entire industries that, know, tabloids and other kind of material that really dehumanizes other people.
• 19:25
  Melissa Shere Beek: Sure.
• 19:26
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So, you know, I would say like, you know, if you hear some you know, to be involved in community is to really distance yourself from very toxic kind of relationships like that.
• 19:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: So how do kids distance themselves from the technology though?
• 19:43
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. I was gonna mention that to elaborate on what you were saying in terms of social media. It's been a blessing in a sense, but it's also been a burden in another sense because children have become so disconnected from just being able to have just conversations. I don't know about you all, but I have teenagers and I have some young people. And before we were forced to sit at the table and talk and turn the television off and have conversation about your day and what's going on in your lives.
• 20:21
  And I noticed when we go out to eat or something, everyone is on the phone, everyone is scrolling, everyone is looking at someone else's life on social media, and it almost sets up barriers for connectivity. And so in a sense, it is a hard habit to break, but I think in order for our communities to be better, we're gonna have to find a way to reconnect Yeah, in terms no phones the table. Yeah, no phones on the table and limit your access because I'm dealing with a lot of youth in my particular church, and my youth pastor tells us there's so many kids that are suicidal. There's so many kids that are wanting to give up. He told me at least 10 kids that I've heard stories of recently that tried to take their own lives.
• 21:12
  And when you got down to the bottom of it, either they were being bullied by someone or they were trying to compare their lives with someone else on social media. Which
• 21:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: is fake. Right.
• 21:23
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Which is fake. But you know, know, and people are so disoriented because of this new way of operating. But like you said, if we could take that or minimize that or control that, limit that, then I think that will definitely help the next generation.
• 21:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah, I think we need to. I think we're setting a really bad precedent. Is there a way to sort of embrace technology in a way to bring community back together or no?
• 21:51
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think that there's a great promise in technology. And if you can collect people for very positive things in the world. I mean, if you think about activism and mobilizing and sharing ideas, there's a lot of potential. The the technology is only as good as the people that are operating the technology.
• 22:14
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's true.
• 22:15
  Pastor Theo Johnson: That's true.
• 22:15
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So I don't think when they started Facebook, I think, you know, Mark Zuckerberg thought about the secondary impacts. Maybe he did, but you know, you start with the germ of an idea, you don't know where that idea would go. I did wanna bring up something very important about the value community, which is beyond the philosophical. It's very practical. And this is people that have more social capital.
• 22:40
  Community creates social capital. And the more social capital that you have, very often you look at the studies, more economically successful you are, the more the health impacts the health impacts are palpable. People live longer.
• 22:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. Mental
• 22:57
  Rabbi Fred Klein: health People that have a lot of relationships live longer, are healthier, are happier. Yeah. Because they have a whole network of support. And this has been shown. There are many Americans can't identify five people that in the middle of the night, they could call up and say, hey, I feel x.
• 23:18
  Yeah. I need to talk to somebody.
• 23:20
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And that's sad. That's really sad. Cultivate And it's not about making Instagram messages with a thousand people that you don't really know are not gonna be with you in the middle of the night. You want those five, ten, 15 people that are your team, that your community, and then you have concentric circles of relationship. But you need those essential circles.
• 23:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: You need the core.
• 23:43
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It was really interesting article I read recently about poverty in the Jewish community. And it took two families. And one family was very well connected in the Orthodox community, which has a very everything in the Orthodox community is extremely interconnected. And there was they had food insufficiency and financial needs, and they took another family, same economic situation, all of the same problems, but they were not connected in the same way. The family in the Orthodox community fared far better because the entire community mobilized around them to help.
• 24:22
  The other family didn't have those social networks. They didn't have the rabbi. They didn't have the synagogue. They didn't have the institutions to know how to connect. And so I think we need to create entry ways where people feel comfortable who are on the outside of community to come inside to the community.
• 24:41
  Many people don't feel comfortable walking into a synagogue or maybe walking into a church. They feel like outsiders.
• 24:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 24:47
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That's one of the the challenges to make community accessible.
• 24:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: How do you foster that in your professions then? How do you foster community in your professions? How do you make it comfortable for someone walking past the church or the synagogue to say, Oh, I feel welcomed here?
• 25:02
  Pastor Theo Johnson: So one of the things that that I have attempted to do with our church is we we let the people well, we emphasize that we're more than the building. Right? So I have this phrase, the church beyond the walls. So we get out into the community, we connect with the people in the community, and we try to be a friend of the community. But then we try to make sure that we're on their level.
• 25:29
  So it doesn't matter where you came from or what socioeconomic status you're in, you're welcome. And I tried to make sure that from the top of whatever your position is, your position, your title is not as important as you serving, you connecting with the people. And so I try to create this atmosphere where we're all on the same level together. We all have the same basic needs and all have the same basic challenges. And so we try to make sure that when people come, they feel welcomed, they feel seen, they feel loved.
• 26:08
  Part of the challenges is making sure that those individuals continue to communicate that within the church. But we try to make sure that we connect with the community on a consistent basis to let them know that we are here
• 26:23
  Melissa Shere Beek: for you. Right.
• 26:25
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And interestingly, what we, based upon our demographic studies, the Jewish community, we do it every ten years in Miami at the Jewish Federation, we see different types of connections to community. And we look at communities that we would say, quote unquote, are on the periphery
• 26:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 26:41
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Who don't feel engaged. And in fact, one of the strategic goals that we've created for ourselves is to create community connectors. We have a new program where people are going throughout the community. There are people that we work with now that were not in our community. And they're making coffee dates.
• 26:58
  Just going out and hearing stories and listening. And it's not to people think that the Jewish Federation just raises money. We do raise money to create capacity to help the community, But that's not the goal is to create community. That's what we're about. And so I thought this this is a very innovative idea to actually fund people to go out and hear other people's stories and to expand our communities of concern, which is a wonderful idea.
• 27:27
  But I do wanna say their responsibility also has to be on the individual.
• 27:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: So that's what I was gonna say. How does someone go out and find community?
• 27:36
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, listen, if walking into a church, right, Theo? Yeah. Right? It's a you're gonna like some people. You're not gonna like some people.
• 27:45
  If you're an outsider trying to come in, right, sometimes people may not feel as welcome as they should. Yeah. Right? But these are human communities.
• 27:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 27:55
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? Very often, people, I think, would like to feel that every institution should deliver all the needs that they need at that moment. No human being
• 28:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's impossible.
• 28:05
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It's impossible. No human being can deliver all the emotional needs that I need. Right? So I would say to be proactive. Come back.
• 28:18
  Volunteer. Get involved.
• 28:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. Get involved.
• 28:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Get involved. And get engaged in different different types.
• 28:24
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 28:26
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It's not about what I can get. Right? It's also taking a look at yourself and saying, what can I bring to community? What kind of skills can I bring? What kind of passions?
• 28:35
  That is a whole different type of conversation to have.
• 28:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: So what advice do you have for people looking for community besides?
• 28:44
  Pastor Theo Johnson: As you just stated, seek community, serve in the community. One of the things I have encouraged my team is that no one is monolithic. There's not a monolithic of individuals. We are all different. But while we're the same, we are all different.
• 29:03
  One of the challenges we had, particularly at the church, is for instance, certain generations, you had to look a certain way. You had to come dressed a certain way and people would come not feeling comfortable because either they didn't have the certain clothes or they had the tattoos or they had the, you know, whatever, the spiked hair, whatever. And so what I did is I wanted to make sure that our church reflected the community. And so even in the black community, what we did is predominantly black community. My assistant is a Puerto Rican, right?
• 29:39
  Because I wanna make sure that the Latino community know that they're welcome. And so we will put people in our ministry that model the
• 29:47
  Rabbi Fred Klein: full- That
• 29:48
  Melissa Shere Beek: reflected the community.
• 29:48
  Pastor Theo Johnson: That reflected the community. When they come in, they say, Oh, I see somebody that looks And like we would encourage them to connect. And so I, on a consistent basis, wanna make sure that we have individuals be seen in leadership and in our church that will look like the community, but also encourage those in the community, Hey, come be a part of what we're doing. Seek what's going on. Serve.
• 30:16
  Hey, why don't you come and participate in some of the community events? And through that, we've had individuals come out of their shell, so to speak, and start connecting with the community or the church.
• 30:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. So you both have said stuff about I wrote down notes here about sharing and talking and communicating with each other and telling your story and being heard. Rabbi, you also said something about, and I've read it too, that we live longer, we're healthier mentally and physically when we have that sort of support system. So if we know all of these things, why aren't we prioritizing community? Well, I think we are.
• 31:05
  You two are. Why isn't the general population prioritizing community?
• 31:11
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think we live in a kind of consumerist culture where success means how much you have. And that's the messaging that I think a lot of our children get as opposed to how much you can give in this world. Yeah. Because, I mean, I've never been to a funeral where a person talked about the net worth of an individual. Right.
• 31:33
  I have gone to a funerals where people talk about the philanthropy and the giving of a person because that's what people are gonna be remembered for. So I think we, as a society, very often
• 31:48
  Melissa Shere Beek: Don't reward acts of kindness?
• 31:50
  Rabbi Fred Klein: We don't Yeah. And listen, I was thinking, I have this idea that after high school, all people should do a national year of service. And I think there have been congressmen and senators talking about this, but I think it would totally transform society. Did you take a year before you go to college and you get what you need or you get your job or your vocational training?
• 32:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 32:16
  Rabbi Fred Klein: You go outside yourself.
• 32:18
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Mhmm.
• 32:19
  Rabbi Fred Klein: You serve the community. You serve others. It would expand your notion of concern for others. It would transform the way you see other people.
• 32:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. You seeing reality.
• 32:30
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. And I think that people would feel a sense of empowerment. I really made a difference in people's lives. Yeah.
• 32:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: I think that's brilliant.
• 32:40
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. Let's do it. What do you think, Theo?
• 32:44
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I think that that'd be great. Actually, it was funny. I took a group of 16 teenagers to Jamaica several years ago, and I did it for the purposes of going on a missions trip to help them understand that there's something bigger than you. And we went over there and it was a life transforming experience for the youth that came from here in America. My three daughters were some of the ones that went over and they, to this day, talk about how they felt so much better not receiving, but giving and being able to help build and help to pour into someone else's life.
• 33:30
  And so I think when you give individuals those opportunities to think outside of yourself or understand that community means it's bigger than yourself, you give a person the opportunity, the liberties to say, Hey, we're better together. And so this pastor told a story about his sons that he was raising. He had a young son that he had given them some chips and told them all in the back seat of the car, Hey, you guys, share this among yourselves. But the youngest one didn't understand the concept yet. So every time they were asking him for The brothers were asking him for some chips, was saying, Mine.
• 34:08
  And he was like, No, no, it's all of yours. And every time they tried to get some, he would say, No, it's mine. It's mine. It's mine. And so the father had to take it away from him to get him to understand that this is not all of yours.
• 34:23
  I gave this to you in order for all of you all to partake of And so I think those are the lessons that you learn when you have multiple children in the house, right? Have to learn that you have to share, you have to learn how to serve, you have to learn how to be inconvenient in your life, and I think it strips us of that individuality. And I said that to say, sometimes we think this is mine. I have to get this education. I have to have this career.
• 34:52
  I have to have this particular promotion and it's all about me, whereas it's not. When you climb that mountain and it's only you there by yourself, what have you really accomplished?
• 35:06
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's a lonely view.
• 35:08
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I tell people all the time, you can go faster by yourself, but you go farther together.
• 35:14
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah, I like that quote.
• 35:16
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah, so I just think that we have to reintroduce that, particularly in our country. I know we're not getting into any politics or anything like that, but I think that we need to be reminded that we are in this ship together.
• 35:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. So besides the fact that we're gonna start more programs to make sure that everybody takes time to give back to all communities and really get an education for themselves, what else is essential and important for building and maintaining community? And I really think that we should have more of those programs.
• 35:52
  Pastor Theo Johnson: You say what is essential?
• 35:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. What else is essential for building and maintaining community?
• 36:00
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, I think we're in the realm we work in the realm of the ritual. Right? We
• 36:05
  Melissa Shere Beek: like that.
• 36:06
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Grounding You know, I think there's ways you could look at all of society, but society is the product of the millions of individual decisions that people make on a daily life.
• 36:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 36:18
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And so I think what we do as either rabbi or minister, we help people think about their lives in a way where it can foster a sense of interconnectivity of community. So I'll give you an example of simple things that we can do. Don't have to think about national policies. I mean, I gave an idea, but simple things. K?
• 36:41
  In the Jewish community, we have bar and bat mitzvahs. K? In other communities, you have a sweet 16. Right? We put the child in the center.
• 36:51
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Mhmm.
• 36:51
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? But I know that with the bar and bat Mitzvahs, rabbis are actively doing you gotta do a mitzvah project. You have to do something good for another person. Because if not, the child might think it's all about Me. It's all about this very elaborate party.
• 37:08
  It's all about the gifts, but it really isn't. It's about you taking responsibility for your life, and it's coupled with doing a mitzvah project, that something good for other people. Same thing with the 16. Right? Whenever we celebrate something for ourselves, we should be able to share something with others.
• 37:28
  Like, you know, if you get gifts, give a tithe.
• 37:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 37:31
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? Tithing is a very important idea because it says, whatever comes to me, right, it's not mine. Like what you said. Yeah. Right?
• 37:39
  What you said, reverend. Right? It's not mine. It's I'm blessed with this, and my goal is to now share in a responsible way what I have with other people. So I think that we have to, you know, and I think community, religious community is about not just salvation of the self or my own redemption.
• 38:00
  It's about sharing, you know, this quest for a powerful community of meaning with other people. Yeah. And the capacity to give. So that would that I think, you know, is is one of the gifts of religious communities. Yeah.
• 38:19
  That people really want. People really want that sense of belonging and sense that they can contribute
• 38:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: And purpose.
• 38:27
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And purpose. Exactly.
• 38:29
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. Think one of the things that has been a blessing is having this interfaith gathering that we've had. I know I've had a chance to come to a lot of them recently, but that's the way I was able to meet Rabbi and so many others. And so for me, and I don't know about you, but for me, my perspective was something different when I came and connected with some of the Jewish functions. Like, I didn't even know you guys know how to get down.
• 38:59
  I didn't know you knew the music. I didn't know you were eating like you were eating it. So it was just so amazing to see, man, we have a lot in common. And so I think that when you force individuals, you say, What are things we could practically do? I think we should be able to get out of our own communities and connect with other communities.
• 39:28
  I just think that we should make it a priority to be intentional that, hey, whether it's having Shabbat with my brother or him coming down, you're gonna come down to my house next time. I would love to. And so us getting into each other's Don't
• 39:44
  Melissa Shere Beek: forget about me, everybody.
• 39:47
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I'm invited to.
• 39:48
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah, yeah. Because you're able to see someone else's perspective and say, Hey, we are more alike than we're different. And so just forcing that type of relationship is important.
• 40:02
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I do wanna just challenge one thing that Reverend Johnson said, which I think is important. Because I think very often, some people say like, we're all alike, which basically means everyone's like me. Yeah. Okay. That's what it really means.
• 40:16
  Like, whatever I assume about the world, everyone else assumes about the world. Yeah. One of the things I appreciate about interfaith is the realization that not everyone is like me. And I think we also have to celebrate difference.
• 40:33
  Pastor Theo Johnson: God
• 40:36
  Rabbi Fred Klein: created all of us in the diversity, the story of the Tower Of Babel, right? Because the world began with everyone with one language.
• 40:45
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Right.
• 40:46
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? And they tried to supplant God in that story, and God therefore scatters the people in different languages. That's part of the story, but God celebrates the different languages.
• 40:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 40:57
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So if you really wanna understand somebody, you wanna have questions of curiosity. Well, why do you do that? Yes. What does that mean for you? What's your history?
• 41:10
  And I think if people And learning
• 41:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: moments and teaching moments in those.
• 41:13
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right. And that's also what compassion and empathy means. It doesn't mean I have to agree with everything Right. You
• 41:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: But respect and tolerance.
• 41:23
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. But tolerance is a I think tolerance is kind of a could be a negative word. No. I mean, Tolerant when you have you.
• 41:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: No. No. I mean, like in respect and understanding and learning.
• 41:35
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yes. In that sense. Yes. Yes. But I think it's more embracing the diversity.
• 41:42
  And especially now we live in an interconnected age like no other time. What did most people know about what Chinese people were doing, I don't know, 500 ago? I mean, they never met somebody from China, right?
• 41:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: Today, we
• 41:57
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Today, have have been talking. Such international communities of interconnectivity were exposed to so much, right? It's
• 42:05
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's really cool.
• 42:06
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It's also very, very difficult for people who fear the other. People fear diversity because it challenges their own assumptions of self. But I think we have to understand in this new age, we have to ask questions of curiosity. Each of us are holding truth about this world, but we don't hold the whole truth.
• 42:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 42:28
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah.
• 42:28
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I think that's that's something we have to consider these days. So that's why I value, like, relationship. It's not only what unites us, but what makes us different. And then I have to start thinking about myself. And so when somebody says, oh, all people say this, or Christians say this, or black people say this, so on, what are you talking about?
• 42:52
  That's not true. I mean, you're defining people on your own terms.
• 42:57
  Melissa Shere Beek: In a generalization.
• 42:58
  Pastor Theo Johnson: So that's what I meant, in that we still have more in common than not. We just may celebrate differences and, you know, I see something that you do and may be like, Hey, I didn't do that in my community. But at the barest essence, we both have the same general needs. You want the best for your family. You want your kids to have certain advantages or certain opportunities in life.
• 43:28
  We want the same thing. And the more we sit down at the table of commonality, we realize, okay, while we are different in so many ways, we're just alike in so many other ways. I had a chance, and I love to travel. It seemed like every time you talk to me, I'm going somewhere.
• 43:45
  Melissa Shere Beek: You're always international. Every time I text you all, I'm out of the country.
• 43:49
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I've had an opportunity to go to 36 different countries. Wow. And in that, four different, five different continents. Wow. And it amazes me.
• 43:59
  I love it because I'm able to just immerse myself in a culture, but also see while I can celebrate that culture, I see, man, they have the same basic needs that I have. And we may look different on the outside, and we may operate differently. We may have different philosophies and political stances and all that, but at the end of the day, we have more in common with each And so I think we should be intentional to force ourselves out of our comfort zone to say, Hey, let me go and spend some time with someone who doesn't share my same experience.
• 44:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: I feel like we all just want to love and be loved. And I worry and I think about the future because you talked about children doing mitzvah projects and you talked about children having experiences and giving back to communities. But how do we teach our children when they're young to foster and reach and look for connection in community? Doesn't it start at home at the beginning?
• 45:09
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. It does. One of the things that I used to hate I ain't gonna say hate, that's a strong one.
• 45:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: Dislike.
• 45:18
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I disliked my mother and father would make me go to nursing homes. My father was a deacon in a church and they served faithfully. But one thing they did outside of a Sunday, they were always helping people. Were always part of feedings and they were always visiting people that were either in a nursing home or a hospital. And they would pull me and I would have to come to like, oh man, I have so much else, so many other things And I wanna it's
• 45:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: teenager stuff.
• 45:47
  Pastor Theo Johnson: But I didn't realize the impact of that until I started getting older and I'm realizing, man, this is what my life is about. It's more than just me. And so what I do now is I make, or then at the time, my kids, I would take them to visit individuals in prison. I would take them to visit individuals in the hospital, and I would hear the same complaints. But now I see them serving the community as well because I did not allow them to sit in their own individuality.
• 46:20
  No, we're gonna go serve. We're gonna go help and be a part of something bigger than ourselves.
• 46:25
  Melissa Shere Beek: I think actions speak louder than words when it comes to stuff like that.
• 46:29
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Some things are taught, other things are caught. They'll look at you and say, That's what, he did it and so we need to be doing it.
• 46:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Because I think half the time children aren't really paying attention to what's coming out of your mouth but they're watching what you're doing. No. And you talked about visiting the ill. So we have like Bichor Holim in the Jewish community, like visiting the ill or we have mitzvah Sundays where you get together and I know there's lots of times that my nieces and nephews and I or my children, when they were younger, we would all get together and we'd make sandwiches or deliver meals to the elderly who couldn't get together for different holidays.
• 47:07
  I mean, there are events and organizations and things that are going on across the communities. But how do we encourage more families to do that with their children, to sort of have those experiences?
• 47:18
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Well, I think it's modeled. It was funny, not funny, but the other day we were in Brazil, in Rio, and we were out doing at this bakery. My daughter turned 25, and so we were getting her a cake. My son saw this guy outside of the bakery digging through the trash and he was eating, licking frosting off of those, you know, the little pans in the trash. And I didn't see the guy, but my son said, Dad, he said, I'm so thankful and grateful for me having the life that I have.
• 47:59
  He said, But I want to give this man something to eat. And I looked up and was like, Okay. He said, Hey, I'll He didn't say, Can you pay for it? He said, I don't have the money on me right now, but I'll Cash App you. Can can we get him something to eat?
• 48:14
  So we went and got him something, and I let my son go and give the food to the man. He immediately stopped eating out of the trash and started he opened the food up and started eating it. And when I got home, my son when I got back here, my son Cash App me.
• 48:31
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. Technology's good for something.
• 48:33
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Right. Right. But I thought that he like he wasn't gonna do it, but he remembered that experience and he wanted to make sure that he was able to give to him. And so I just thank I'm thankful that he's seen my wife and I serve. My wife is a nurse as well.
• 48:53
  I don't know if you all know that. So she gives of herself helping the community. And so they have seen us growing up give to people on a consistent basis. And so that's what we expect of them, but that's what they've also taken on.
• 49:07
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. Well, because you modeled it. Yeah. That's why.
• 49:10
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think that that's the key. Know, that I think parents have a lot of expectations for their children, but I mean, your your child, his success is a reflection of you and all the decisions that you've made.
• 49:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 49:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So if you want your child to grow up with a life of character, it has to start with you. Yeah. You can't tell a child to do something and then they see they can pick up hypocrisy immediately. Right. So I really think that it really starts with parents.
• 49:42
  And in terms of even friend groups, like being very careful, not in terms of the socioeconomic class of your friends, but what are the values of the friends?
• 49:55
  Melissa Shere Beek: Exactly.
• 49:56
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Because who are the people that your kids are socializing with? What are the values they're teaching?
• 50:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 50:02
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So I think you have to be very careful in terms of the communities in which they walk because people look for social acceptance. And so I think we have to be very engaged parents in that sense.
• 50:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. I think we need to be very mindful. I think you're right. I'm trying to figure out how okay, we're modeling it for our children and we know other people that are modeling it for their children. But how in the greater community do we get people it doesn't have to be parents, it could be anybody these children look up to, to teach them about kindness and compassion instead of teaching hate.
• 50:42
  Because you said in the beginning about it's so easy for someone to point and say because of that, that's the problem, that's the reason, that's the so how do we get the greater community to start practicing more kindness and less teaching of hate?
• 51:00
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, I think somebody writing an angry Facebook post has never changed the world.
• 51:06
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 51:06
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? Mean, think about it. It may feel good for a minute, but it absolutely does nothing to change the world. And each of us, if we think about our lives and we define there's we think if we do a thought experiment that there's me and then there's my family, then there's maybe my community, then there's the larger country, then there's the world. Right.
• 51:31
  And there's even the environment. We live in interconnectivity with everything. Now, am I gonna solve every problem in the world? I think that that's really very difficult, but I do have a sphere of influence. Each of us have a sphere of influence, and it's not about rabbis, not about ministers.
• 51:51
  It's about each of us ministering to the needs of the world. So it's a mindset. So I don't need The redemption of the world, we talk about redemption and the Messiah coming. That means innumerable acts of kindness that we are doing. You wanna change the world, start with the people around you.
• 52:17
  Start with how you behave around your family, around your friends, and around
• 52:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: And that has a ripple effect.
• 52:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It completely has ripple effect. Here, we just saw that Reverend Theo just told a story about how his actions impacted his son.
• 52:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 52:30
  Rabbi Fred Klein: His sons are
• 52:31
  Melissa Shere Beek: gonna His parents' have his
• 52:32
  Rabbi Fred Klein: actions impacting him. His community. And you increasing ripples. So I think that don't start with the global issues, but start
• 52:45
  Melissa Shere Beek: with Start in your backyard.
• 52:46
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Start in your backyard. Yeah. You know? And all of us can do that. Yeah.
• 52:50
  All of us can be empowered. Agreed. Right? Elie Wiesel talked about visiting the sick. Okay?
• 52:57
  Elie Wiesel said, you know, just go visit and be present for those who are sick. Right? Life and death, that's in God's hands. That's in God's hands. But you, you go visit.
• 53:10
  Right? You go do this right now and be there and be kind at that moment. Right? That's what we're that's what we're, you know, enjoying to do in this world. And I can tell you when you do that, you do feel hopeful about the world.
• 53:24
  Yeah. Because you feel like you make a difference. Yeah. Not only for the others, but for yourself.
• 53:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 53:30
  Rabbi Fred Klein: You feel a sense of ennoblement in that process. Yeah.
• 53:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: You know? Yeah.
• 53:35
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. I don't I don't know if I know you guys probably heard the story of the the young boy who saw the seashells on the shore and and, you know, he knew that if he didn't put them back in the water, they would die and he would go along and pick up one and throw it in the ocean. And this man looked and said, Hey, what are you doing? He says, I'm throwing the seashells back in the ocean. He said, Look how many that you have, ahead of you.
• 53:59
  There's miles and miles and miles of seashells. He said, You're clearly not gonna make a difference. And the little boy looks at the one that was in front of him and he threw it in and he said, It made a difference for that one. So I would say we start with the person that we are around and do what, as you just said, the ripple effect happens. We can't change the world until we change our world that's around us.
• 54:24
  And so I would encourage each person.
• 54:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. And each person is a world. Yeah. So one at a time, we can we can do it. Yeah.
• 54:32
  Okay. So you talked about hope. How do we still encourage hope?
• 54:41
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, I don't think hope is a attitude. I think hope is an action.
• 54:44
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Mhmm.
• 54:46
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think if you do hopeful things
• 54:49
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Mhmm.
• 54:49
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And you put out that energy into the world, then there's hope.
• 54:54
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Okay.
• 54:55
  Rabbi Fred Klein: There's a difference between optimism. People they could be an optimistic, realistic about the world. Optimists some people are optimists. They just feel like everything's gonna be okay. Mhmm.
• 55:06
  Hope is a activity that you you see that you have agency in this world. You see that in any situation, you can have a positive impact. Right. And then you plan accordingly. How do I how do I achieve certain goals?
• 55:20
  And then when you reach an obstacle, which invariably happens in life
• 55:24
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 55:25
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Then you retool your goals.
• 55:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 55:28
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? So, like, I think hope that's
• 55:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: is an action.
• 55:30
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Hope is an action. What are the hopeful acts that we do? Just like I said last time about faith. Yeah. Faith is not, I believe.
• 55:39
  I I do faithful things.
• 55:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 55:41
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Which says that I have a reason to be here. So I think that you become faithful when you feel empowered about your own potential for who you are as a person.
• 55:51
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. When you say hope is an action, it makes me think about what we sow. When we sow, we don't know when it's gonna come up or, you know, how it's gonna come up. We just know that if we don't sow, it's not gonna
• 56:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: come Right. Nothing's coming.
• 56:05
  Pastor Theo Johnson: So, you know, for for us, the Bible says, don't get weary in well doing. You will reap if you faint not. And so and so for us, for me, hope would be continuing to plant those seeds of what what I desire for for the world to be. I start doing that today. Got
• 56:26
  Rabbi Fred Klein: it. There's a famous story in the Talmud of a person planting a tree. And it's a carob tree, which its maturation process is decades. And this is an old man. And so a child's looking at this old man and saying, why are you planting these seeds?
• 56:42
  Why you're never gonna see the fruits of this tree. And he says, as my father or grandfather did for me, so I do for the next generations.
• 56:51
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Right.
• 56:51
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And so we will never see necessarily all the fruits of our labor in this world. But that doesn't mean that they won't materialize.
• 56:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 57:00
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And so I think that that is a forward way of thinking. That's hopeful action.
• 57:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. I like that, hopeful action. So how do we get back to seeing each other that way, to seeing each other as extended family where we run-in to go help and support and do and have these actions? I know we talked about staying in our own backyard, but is it just continuing hopefully, in an action way, implement those things with our ripple effect? Or can we can we reach out to the greater concentric circles we're talking about?
• 57:38
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I think everybody has a specific passion. Mhmm. And it doesn't have to be limited with your backyard.
• 57:45
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 57:45
  Rabbi Fred Klein: There are things that you wanna work on, maybe you wanna work on in the environment. When we talk about volunteering, you can be involved in creating society and creating the world in which reflects the values that you hope for.
• 57:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: So
• 58:00
  Rabbi Fred Klein: there's a lot of movement in our society, I think, that some of it may be virtual signaling, but others is the real work of creating a society of kindness and justice that we want. And I think that that's very positive. And I think that we should start individually. Right? But it doesn't it should never stay there.
• 58:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 58:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Right? We have to live we have to constantly live outside ourselves for others. As you know, you probably know, hello, the elder says, if I'm not for myself
• 58:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Who will be for me?
• 58:35
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That's right. But if I'm only for myself, who am I?
• 58:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: So
• 58:39
  Rabbi Fred Klein: you know.
• 58:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: I know. I
• 58:42
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I think there needs to be presence, purpose, and participation. I'm reminded of I was living in Dallas, Texas at the time and someone came and knocked on my door and they said, Hey, a house is burning up down the street. And so I immediately got out of the house and ran down. And this house was definitely on we could see it was smoke on the inside of the house. And so few people started gathering around.
• 59:09
  We started looking through the window. We couldn't see anything. So we just assumed no one was in the house. And so we just kind of gathered around just started talking while the house was burning up. And, the ambulance came and a few minutes later, they broke the door down and brought this man out.
• 59:28
  And this man, eventually died. And we were sitting around like, if we had known this man was in the house, we would have done more
• 59:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 59:38
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Together to try to get him out. But we were gathering around, talking and just, getting sidetracked by conversation, not understanding that this house has someone valuable on the inside. And it taught me a lesson of that's kind of how we can be in America, that's how we could be in our world. The world is burning up.
• 59:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: They were watching the house burn down
• 1:00:00
  Pastor Theo Johnson: right We were watching it and we were having good conversations, but there was someone that was being affected on the inside. And so if we had taken that approach to say, Hey, this is important. And so we need to make sure that we do this to help save the life of someone else. I think that when we get out of ourselves and understand that there's something bigger and greater than ourselves, we understand that we're in this thing together. If we don't do anything, our world is gonna burn up around us.
• 1:00:31
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. While everyone's sitting around talking.
• 1:00:33
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Everyone's sitting around talking.
• 1:00:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: Alright. Anything we left out?
• 1:00:39
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Man, listen, again, I just said that my thought is just, again, we are stronger together.
• 1:00:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: And
• 1:00:50
  Pastor Theo Johnson: while we are in our own silos and sometimes our own communities, we would be much better, much richer, much smarter if we understood that we can come together and and accomplish more. And you you kinda mentioned it about the Tower Of Babel. God said if if we don't stop them or confuse their language, there's nothing that they wouldn't be able to accomplish. That's the power of togetherness.
• 1:01:19
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  Pastor Theo Johnson: The power of unity. And I think if we're doing the things in the right way from a right perspective, what could we accomplish as a believer?
• 1:01:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Imagine. Yeah. Incredible.
• 1:01:30
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I'll just add, you know, it says in the beginning of the book of creation of Genesis, whether you take it literally or not, it's a story about what it means to be a human being. And after every day, God says, it's good. It's good. It's good. It's good.
• 1:01:45
  When's the first time God says something's not good?
• 1:01:49
  Pastor Theo Johnson: From man to be alone.
• 1:01:50
  Rabbi Fred Klein: There you go. People need to live in relationship. That's part of the definition of what it means to be a human being. So the more that we can do to live in relationship, I think the more we will be successful in terms of facing the challenges that we do we we have as a society. We'll live happier lives.
• 1:02:12
  We'll live more empowered lives. And we will live holier lives
• 1:02:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 1:02:17
  Rabbi Fred Klein: At the end.
• 1:02:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Agreed. Well, that's a good way to end it. Yeah. Thank you, guys.
• 1:02:23
  Thank you. Alright. So you know, I always do my quickie questions at the end.
• 1:02:28
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Oh, wow.
• 1:02:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Are you guys game again?
• 1:02:31
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. Why not? You and
• 1:02:32
  Rabbi Fred Klein: you both
• 1:02:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: are a little hesitant, but we're gonna try it. Okay. So we're gonna go back to individual right now. Forget about community. Favorite solo day.
• 1:02:42
  If you were to just do something for yourself, what would what would your favorite day be?
• 1:02:52
  Pastor Theo Johnson: You mean outside of traveling?
• 1:02:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, well, I could be traveling.
• 1:02:55
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Oh, okay. Was gonna say I could jump on a plane. Listen, if I could go to the moon, I would do it. No.
• 1:03:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: Would you really?
• 1:03:02
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I would. I wanna explore. Every time I see a plane in the air, I'm like, I want to be there because it connects me to other people.
• 1:03:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: Cool. Yeah. On the moon?
• 1:03:15
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Well, not the moon, but hopefully somebody else's the rabbi will
• 1:03:19
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's come with me on the moon, but a podcast for another time.
• 1:03:24
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. Ran outside when Artemis two went out. I said, everybody come outside. We gotta watch it go off because you can see it from South Florida.
• 1:03:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, that's
• 1:03:30
  Pastor Theo Johnson: so funny.
• 1:03:31
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Yeah. See that. Wow.
• 1:03:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. So your favorite solo day is traveling to the moon or traveling anywhere?
• 1:03:36
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Traveling. Just yeah. Traveling. That's like therapy for for me. Good.
• 1:03:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Okay. Bye bye.
• 1:03:42
  Rabbi Fred Klein: For me, probably hiking in the mountains.
• 1:03:45
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Oh, okay.
• 1:03:45
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Which is very practical in South Florida. So Right.
• 1:03:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: Well, you're both doing seeking things, which really keeps in theme with both of you. You both are seekers.
• 1:03:55
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And by the way, when I'm on the trail, I don't like to talk to anybody.
• 1:03:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 1:03:59
  Rabbi Fred Klein: My kids will start talking and talking, and I say, no, no.
• 1:04:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: No.
• 1:04:03
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It's time to be quiet now. Listening to the trees. That's right. We're in a different relationship now. I
• 1:04:11
  Pastor Theo Johnson: love it.
• 1:04:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. Favorite childhood memory you think of often?
• 1:04:19
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Wow. So again, I think the passion that I have for travel is because my father was a truck driver in the beginning. He drove 18 wheelers across the country. Well, he stopped that in order to be present in my life because you wouldn't believe this rabbi that I was a difficult child growing up. So my mom couldn't she couldn't really, you know, make couldn't control what But we're gonna need
• 1:04:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: to hear stories after this episode. Yeah.
• 1:04:53
  Pastor Theo Johnson: So so he he gave that up in order to be present in my life. But what we would do is I was I don't know if you noticed. I was born in Tacoma, Washington. Don't know if I mentioned that before, but we would take trips from Dallas up to Washington State. And, I remember, you know, traveling to San Diego as a small child, just seeing the different sites of, you know, the different parts of the world.
• 1:05:22
  So I always knew there was something bigger than where I was. And so that lit a spark or passion in me to see more of the world. So I just remember from the earliest existence that my dad provided that for me.
• 1:05:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's cool.
• 1:05:37
  Pastor Theo Johnson: His presence in us, the ability to travel.
• 1:05:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: That stuck.
• 1:05:42
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Yeah. It stuck. Now my kids got it.
• 1:05:46
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And I'm trying to think about one of the earliest memories I had. And I remember I'm born on the Jewish holiday of Sukkot, which, you know, we eat everything in the booths with So I remember maybe I was five or six years old and my mother It was a time where people baked cakes. A lot of times people just buy a sheet cake. I mean, she made a cake. It was a race car.
• 1:06:14
  She took eggshells and put like sugar in it and like it went on fire like a blue flame. Wow. It's supposed to be like the exhaust fumes, I think. And it's I haven't thought about this memory in a long time, but it's like one of my earliest memories of thinking about the nurturing of my parents.
• 1:06:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 1:06:34
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And a birthday party at five, six years old, and something as simple as a cake and my mom putting all her sweat and tears into that, how much that meant. So now I'm gonna tell my mother, probably, mom, you gotta listen to this podcast.
• 1:06:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes. Yes. You gotta shout out.
• 1:06:51
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And probably she doesn't even remember doing it, but I remember.
• 1:06:55
  Melissa Shere Beek: Was a simple act for her, but monumental for you.
• 1:06:57
  Rabbi Fred Klein: That's right.
• 1:06:58
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I love
• 1:06:58
  Rabbi Fred Klein: that. We remember those things.
• 1:07:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. It makes an impression. Okay. If you could lunch with any person, it could be historical, it could be fiction, it could be living or not, who would it be?
• 1:07:11
  Pastor Theo Johnson: I'm gonna let you go first.
• 1:07:13
  Rabbi Fred Klein: For me, like, know, Abraham, the founder of the Jewish people. He was a revolutionary. He saw something that others did not. He suffered for those beliefs. He wandered for a long time, and he didn't see the fruits of his own vision come to bear in his own lifetime.
• 1:07:34
  So and my wife knows this. Like, when we read it in the Bible, we read it over the main story of Abraham takes around two weeks.
• 1:07:45
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 1:07:45
  Rabbi Fred Klein: There are two sections in the Bible that Jews read in synagogue about there's really three, but two main narratives about Abraham's life. And when Abraham dies in the Bible in synagogue, I always get very teary. I almost, like, cry. He's like my friend that has passed away. Again, I said, we just started getting to know him and now he's gone again.
• 1:08:07
  Melissa Shere Beek: Now he's gone.
• 1:08:08
  Rabbi Fred Klein: And so, know, that's you know, whether or not you take things literally or not, not material to me. Like that kind of figure, that kind of religious visionary. Yeah. Know, ask him what led him to go on this journey because the Bible doesn't even say why he went on this journey. He just did.
• 1:08:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Mhmm.
• 1:08:29
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Mhmm. You know, it's it's interesting. I was gonna say, Abraham, when I heard you, my second person I thought about was was king David. I I thought about I I actually thought about David just with all of the experiences he's had, the highs and the lows, and, you know, just what he witnessed on the battlefield, what he witnessed, in the palace, what, you know, just his life, the good, the bad, the ups, the downs, his heart was still for God. I would just love to hear his story from his perspective.
• 1:09:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Oh, you both picked great ones. Those are terrific. Okay. This is gonna be an easy one.
• 1:09:05
  What's your favorite meal?
• 1:09:08
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Wow. If I'm in New York, my favorite meal is, New York pizza. Yeah.
• 1:09:19
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Well, for me, it's gonna be, barbecued ribs,
• 1:09:21
  Pastor Theo Johnson: but, course,
• 1:09:22
  Rabbi Fred Klein: not pork ribs.
• 1:09:25
  Melissa Shere Beek: That I did not expect from you, Rabbi.
• 1:09:27
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Oh, beef ribs?
• 1:09:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Beef ribs that I didn't even expect, but that's very funny.
• 1:09:31
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So, you know
• 1:09:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's good.
• 1:09:33
  Rabbi Fred Klein: I'd be open to being a vegetarian, but then I see the, you know, barbecued ribs. It's like, nah.
• 1:09:38
  Pastor Theo Johnson: That's it.
• 1:09:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: You can't you can't. Oh, that's so funny. Well, thank you guys so much.
• 1:09:42
  Pastor Theo Johnson: This is
• 1:09:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: awesome to have you. We're gonna have to find another subject that you're gonna have to both come in because we always have such a good time when you're here. Right, Steven? Absolutely. We enjoy you guys.
• 1:09:50
  Thank you. I really appreciate it. And thank you for letting me hit you with the challenging questions.
• 1:09:56
  Pastor Theo Johnson: No problem.
• 1:09:56
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Thank you
• 1:09:57
  Pastor Theo Johnson: once again for the invite.
• 1:09:59
  Rabbi Fred Klein: Thank you.
• 1:09:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: Thank you.
• 1:10:00
  Rabbi Fred Klein: It's been wonderful being here.
• 1:10:01
  Pastor Theo Johnson: Hopefully, the listeners appreciate it.
• 1:10:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, no. They do. They do. But I tell you every time I talk to my viewers about it, and I'm like, the rabbi and the reverend. And they always they're like, no.
• 1:10:09
  Really? Seriously? And I'm like, no. No. Seriously.
• 1:10:11
  And then they see it and they hear it and they're like, they're awesome. So
• 1:10:14
  Rabbi Fred Klein: So next time we have to open with the rabbi and reverend Joke
• 1:10:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. We do. You're gonna have to come up with a good one for me, guys. Thank you. I really appreciate it.
• 1:10:23
  To our listeners, thank you so much. So grateful you're here. Keep listening. Keep learning. Keep laughing.
• 1:10:28
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• 1:10:39
  Listen to Beek on being wherever you get your podcasts. All episodes are automatically transcribed. A big shout out and a huge thank you to Steven Chen, woo hoo, at Penthouse Studios. Beek on being was recorded at Penthouse Studios and is a proud member of the Penthouse Podcast Network.