Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Gabriels

Transcript

Gabriels · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today we're featuring one of the most thrilling new
0:22
Speaker 1: groups and contemporary soul music, Gabriel's and Lucky for Us.
0:27
Speaker 1: They performed three songs, one of which is still unreleased
0:30
Speaker 1: live for Broken Record. The recordings were done in Austin
0:34
Speaker 1: a few months ago while they were there opening for
0:36
Speaker 1: Harry Styles and playing Austin City limits. Gabriel's consists of
0:41
Speaker 1: three very distinct pillars of talent. Lead singer Jacob Lusk,
0:44
Speaker 1: who was raised in comptoncing in gospel and went to
0:47
Speaker 1: high school with Kendrick Lamar, keyboardist and producer Ryan Hope,
0:51
Speaker 1: who grew up a lover of dance music in his
0:53
Speaker 1: native UK, and Los Angeles native Ari Belusian, who serves
0:57
Speaker 1: as Gabriel's in house composer and violinist. Gabriel's origin story
1:02
Speaker 1: is as unconventional as their diverse musical backgrounds. In twenty sixteen,
1:07
Speaker 1: Ryan Hope and Ari Blusian were hired to direct and
1:10
Speaker 1: score a commercial with a gospel choir. After hearing the
1:13
Speaker 1: choir director Jacob Blusk sing, a light went off for
1:15
Speaker 1: the both of them. Over the course of the next
1:18
Speaker 1: couple of years, the trio started to record him released
1:20
Speaker 1: songs independently until twenty twenty one, when their music caught
1:24
Speaker 1: fire online. Sir Elton John himself said their debut EP
1:29
Speaker 1: was one of the most seminal records he's heard in
1:32
Speaker 1: the last ten years. On today's episode, Rick Rubin sits
1:36
Speaker 1: down with Gabriel's to hear how they were able to
1:39
Speaker 1: create a working environment that allowed space for vulnerability and
1:42
Speaker 1: musical exploration, and Jacob Blusk tells a harrowing story about
1:46
Speaker 1: getting lost in the La County jail system in an
1:49
Speaker 1: effort to clear his name so he could appear in
1:51
Speaker 1: the finale of American Idol. This is broken record liner
1:58
Speaker 1: notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richard. Before we
2:01
Speaker 1: hear Rick's interview with Gabriels, let's listen to them perform
2:04
Speaker 1: their upcoming new single Offering, recorded live at Arlan Studio
2:08
Speaker 1: and as in Texas. I don't want your love him
2:28
Speaker 1: one no more. I want to sacrifice. I've shown him
2:35
Speaker 1: proof down. I paid my does. Don't let you can
2:40
Speaker 1: at tire Mama, Hein raised, no fool. I know, yeah,
2:47
Speaker 1: you call the mocking bird right. My daughter told me
2:52
Speaker 1: a thing a cool You're bad. I hain't my advice?
3:01
Speaker 1: Show me this stingers man to me what he and something?
3:10
Speaker 1: Man don't want you harm one more? I need more time.
3:23
Speaker 1: You pick a bit. Damn it? Even your MoMA shap
3:28
Speaker 1: wasn't I walk on woking glass? Damness? Show man? She
3:35
Speaker 1: can't eve the shirt off my back to the fire. God,
3:41
Speaker 1: damn it. I'm tired. Why can't shoot? Just give me?
3:49
Speaker 1: Show me this thing was made to me? Whatever you
3:57
Speaker 1: need to me? Something I can't leave without show all
4:10
Speaker 1: of my dime. It's the true I watch the other
4:17
Speaker 1: shot makes some good away a bad turn Jay looking
4:26
Speaker 1: back as a start, but she can't do rag behind
4:38
Speaker 1: some show me distinguishment to me, give me, tell me
4:57
Speaker 1: I shouldn't it's me? Give me something whatever mention. Once again,
5:27
Speaker 1: that was offering off Gabriel's debut album, Angels and Queen's
5:32
Speaker 1: Part Two, recorded in one take at Arlan Studios in Austin, Texas.
5:37
Speaker 1: And now here's Rick Rubin with Jacob Lusk, Ryan Hope
5:40
Speaker 1: and r Belusian. First of all, why are you guys
5:43
Speaker 1: in Texas? We opened for Harry Styles? How was that?
5:46
Speaker 1: And how had that come to pass? Sha? I don't
5:49
Speaker 1: even know now I say that he asked for us
5:53
Speaker 1: to open for him. So he has a lot of
5:54
Speaker 1: different people opening for him. So I was told that
5:56
Speaker 1: he asks for us to open for him, Like he
5:58
Speaker 1: was the one who made that happen. I don't know,
6:01
Speaker 1: but it happened, and it was marvelous. He's actually a
6:06
Speaker 1: really nice guy. Yes black, he's genuine, Yes he is.
6:11
Speaker 1: I said, oh, this is what Alam Girls is going.
6:12
Speaker 1: Graze absolutely was that first like really big gig. That's
6:16
Speaker 1: where we did glass Glus where it wasn't it was
6:19
Speaker 1: ten thousand. It was outside a little different. So we
6:21
Speaker 1: did Elton John earlier this year, but it wasn't like
6:24
Speaker 1: it was different. Elton John happened. He found out our AP.
6:29
Speaker 1: I don't even know how he got it. We found
6:30
Speaker 1: our AP and he basically he asked us to on
6:33
Speaker 1: his Apple Music show. And this was before labels and everything.
6:36
Speaker 1: This was when we yeah, we self released it with
6:39
Speaker 1: like we put vinyl out ari and I you know,
6:41
Speaker 1: we release our own records and soundtracks, sorry soundtracks. Some
6:44
Speaker 1: kind of even was out on our label a Prayoser
6:47
Speaker 1: because we have a production company called the Prayerser that
6:49
Speaker 1: we released vinyl flu as well. It's just it's a
6:51
Speaker 1: backyard operation, but it's a studio that R and I
6:54
Speaker 1: worked through doing scoring and production, film production and stuff,
6:57
Speaker 1: and it's it's awesome. The people that we work with,
6:59
Speaker 1: you know, to like a boutique job, but they're putting
7:02
Speaker 1: the vinyl out is very backyard operation. That's just something
7:04
Speaker 1: we digs. We love to do it, like fucking put
7:06
Speaker 1: it out. We put out vinyl. And then Elton John
7:08
Speaker 1: some got old of it and he puts on his
7:11
Speaker 1: app with Music Show and then he just yeah, he
7:14
Speaker 1: said really nice things. He called the ape the most
7:16
Speaker 1: seminar apa in the last ten years, incredible and he
7:20
Speaker 1: listens to everything, so he knows, I'll tell you, he
7:22
Speaker 1: listens to every everything. It's crazy great taste. Yeah, I
7:26
Speaker 1: mean it was a big moment for us that really
7:29
Speaker 1: kind of like put it to have that happened when
7:31
Speaker 1: of course, you know, from something were just released, because
7:33
Speaker 1: that was really the three of us just releasing our music.
7:36
Speaker 1: It's like it never gets old when someone that do
7:40
Speaker 1: you think makes great things like something you do, it
7:42
Speaker 1: never gets Yeah, it's a great feeling. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
7:45
Speaker 1: It just it was like, honestly, it was really just
7:48
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, the whole thing of like
7:50
Speaker 1: the Blue getting on the radio. It seems like everything
7:52
Speaker 1: so moved away from that. It's more streaming, it's more
7:56
Speaker 1: like social media bullshit. When we signed out a record deal,
7:59
Speaker 1: there wasn't one single photograph of the three of us.
8:03
Speaker 1: Amazing in the same fucking real amazing. I think when
8:06
Speaker 1: we signed the deal, I remember the masking for a
8:07
Speaker 1: picture of us, and none of none of had a photograph.
8:10
Speaker 1: We've known each other for years, living, none none of
8:13
Speaker 1: us had a picture on our phones or anything. So
8:16
Speaker 1: since the club show to playing with Harry Styles the
8:20
Speaker 1: other night, have you guys done loads of shows or
8:23
Speaker 1: a few shows? Maybe like thirty forty I'm not even
8:27
Speaker 1: probably not that many. And where would you have played
8:30
Speaker 1: Royal Albert Hall? Well we didn't. That haven't count all.
8:33
Speaker 1: That was an hour show. I see. It was for
8:38
Speaker 1: Letters Live, Letters Live one song. It was really cool, amazing,
8:42
Speaker 1: it was incredible. You know, I know about you guys
8:45
Speaker 1: tangentially because of Jamie who does Letters Live. Now? Is
8:50
Speaker 1: that so Amy Sullivan is a friend of mine. I
8:52
Speaker 1: think she works with Jamie and she was telling me
8:56
Speaker 1: about your book. Yeah, is that Jamie is is that
8:58
Speaker 1: who you did the book? Yes, Caningate is the publisher
9:01
Speaker 1: who was publishing in the book in the UK. And
9:04
Speaker 1: I was in London doing book related stuff right and
9:08
Speaker 1: Jamie said, up this lunch at a place called Cocos,
9:11
Speaker 1: which is a club, and I believe it was the
9:17
Speaker 1: person from Cocos who said you might want to check
9:20
Speaker 1: out this. I think you might like this. Nick shut out,
9:29
Speaker 1: And that was just maybe three weeks ago. Wow, that's
9:33
Speaker 1: three weeks ago. It's like, I feel like you might
9:34
Speaker 1: like this. That's my guy. I'm driving. I'm driving in
9:38
Speaker 1: the car and I put it on and he recommended
9:40
Speaker 1: which what to start with and it comes on. I'm thinking, like,
9:43
Speaker 1: I think it's a mistake because this sounds like this
9:45
Speaker 1: maybe this is an old record, you know, like this
9:47
Speaker 1: is something that came out in the sixties or seventies,
9:50
Speaker 1: Like this is an old record. And then I look
9:53
Speaker 1: and I look at the date twenty one. It's like,
9:58
Speaker 1: is it a sample? It's like what already playing the drums,
10:02
Speaker 1: already playing the case. I couldn't figure out what it was.
10:04
Speaker 1: But it also it didn't sound retro. It just sound
10:09
Speaker 1: und it like it was from another time. Yeah, it
10:11
Speaker 1: didn't sound like it was trying to sound like another
10:14
Speaker 1: It just sounded like what is this? And then it's
10:18
Speaker 1: like I couldn't figure it out what it was that
10:20
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of the Experienced. And then I
10:25
Speaker 1: sent that to my friend Justin who yeah we met here, Yeah, yeah,
10:28
Speaker 1: who does the podcast. I just said, what's up with
10:30
Speaker 1: these guys? And he's like, believe it or not, they're
10:33
Speaker 1: gonna be in Texas. When you're going to be there,
10:35
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, get the fuck out. Meant to be.
10:39
Speaker 1: But honestly, because you know, like yeah, you're he'd been
10:42
Speaker 1: a huge inspiration for us, like particularly for like Ari
10:44
Speaker 1: and I, you know, it produces. It's kind of like
10:47
Speaker 1: this thing where we were like, whoa, we're doing this
10:49
Speaker 1: right now. But to hear how it came around, it's
10:51
Speaker 1: just crazy. It's sexual conversation. Put it on just like
10:55
Speaker 1: I want to know more. And I still I didn't
10:57
Speaker 1: even know is it a group? Yeah? I thought Gabriel's
11:00
Speaker 1: maybe it's like brothers and sisters. Yeah, you know, maybe
11:03
Speaker 1: it's a family. I had no idea of that family idea. Also,
11:09
Speaker 1: because it was harmony, it's like, oh, maybe it's like
11:11
Speaker 1: a family that sings together. Amazing. That's why it sounds
11:16
Speaker 1: so no, no, no, that's why it sounds familiar because
11:21
Speaker 1: it's your voice. But you know how when brothers and
11:24
Speaker 1: sisters sing together, it's like there's a blend that doesn't
11:28
Speaker 1: happen when it's just random people. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm
11:31
Speaker 1: a little weird. I've done a lot of studio sessions,
11:33
Speaker 1: so I like trying to tweak my voice sometimes and
11:35
Speaker 1: I do the harmonies and stuff. It's great. Weird, but
11:37
Speaker 1: it's great. Wow, that's a crazy story. Yeah, amazing, Yeah,
11:42
Speaker 1: I come, yeah so wild. We'd love to play some
11:46
Speaker 1: songs for play some song. Let's play some songs. Shock,
11:59
Speaker 1: gosh time, Oh you come Shore Fi all the sun
12:16
Speaker 1: It's bad, but not for me. Don't bring the truth
12:21
Speaker 1: to the shame. I ken that shit show good a
12:26
Speaker 1: pump me to my knees about all the good and
12:30
Speaker 1: love and the WoT shavement. Cobley, all the eye, bring Coble,
12:47
Speaker 1: all running in my van. Dobble. I can't escape you, Dobble.
13:03
Speaker 1: I've asted eye all times, had people changed the same?
13:36
Speaker 1: We go dance, You'll be k me robid and everybody
13:46
Speaker 1: knows I must be sinking a head down. Fuck, I
13:50
Speaker 1: can't let you ship so sweet down sugar cane, gut
13:57
Speaker 1: me on my knees. But it's no way. I'm right
14:05
Speaker 1: only running in my vag candescape stit alright, another da
14:40
Speaker 1: old as time, Another four lost his mind. That was
14:57
Speaker 1: Gabriel's performing Taboo Live. We'll be right back with more
15:01
Speaker 1: from their conversation with Rick Rubin after a break, We're
15:09
Speaker 1: back with more of Rick Rubin and Gabriel's. So how
15:13
Speaker 1: did this project come to be? I was in college
15:16
Speaker 1: and at UCLA and from originally Los Angeles, the Valley,
15:22
Speaker 1: and I kind of stopped doing music in college. I
15:27
Speaker 1: was like classically trained on the viola or whatever, so
15:29
Speaker 1: I was kind of playing in orchestras and stuff. But
15:31
Speaker 1: then I lost interest in like being a professional musician whatever.
15:35
Speaker 1: So I was studying like linguistics and stuff, and then
15:38
Speaker 1: I just started getting into working on my friends, like
15:41
Speaker 1: short films and stuff like that. So I did one
15:44
Speaker 1: thing with someone who was an intern at the company.
15:48
Speaker 1: Ryan was signed to as a commercial music video director.
15:52
Speaker 1: I should say still I'm sign at the moment, so
15:55
Speaker 1: let's just get back. But yeah, it was kind of
15:59
Speaker 1: like a string quartet, church hymn kind of thing that
16:02
Speaker 1: was done to this kind of practical effects little film
16:04
Speaker 1: my friend had made. So then yeah, it was amazing.
16:06
Speaker 1: I mean I heard it. That's kind of how I
16:08
Speaker 1: read out to him because I was just that. It
16:10
Speaker 1: was my first week actually moving to la I used
16:12
Speaker 1: to from Sunderland and the northeast of England originally and
16:15
Speaker 1: then via London. I got approached by Roman Coppler's company
16:19
Speaker 1: to move over and I was directing a video for
16:21
Speaker 1: Farrell and two Chains actually some music films. My background
16:24
Speaker 1: and all about backgrounds. Really as are he says with
16:27
Speaker 1: their researcher. Actually he was like putting together the treatment
16:30
Speaker 1: for the job and I heard Ari's music because I
16:33
Speaker 1: loved it. Really that was about ten years ago now,
16:36
Speaker 1: And next thing I knew, I was in Ari's apartment
16:39
Speaker 1: and his apartment was tiny, it was fifty percent bed
16:42
Speaker 1: and then he had two Timpanies in there and didn't
16:44
Speaker 1: have the Internet. And immediately was like, this is my guy,
16:47
Speaker 1: you know, seeing I was like, anybody who's just shipped
16:50
Speaker 1: two Timpanies from Detroit to take up fifty percent of
16:53
Speaker 1: your apartment, I'm down with. So anywhere we basically became
16:57
Speaker 1: really good friends and we were He cooked me up
16:59
Speaker 1: with the studio in North Hollywood. We were making music
17:03
Speaker 1: together for years for film and we were making films
17:06
Speaker 1: together as well. And that's how you met Jacob, who
17:09
Speaker 1: came into a custing for a job that I was doing.
17:12
Speaker 1: And they were the fourth choir who him in. He
17:14
Speaker 1: was a choir director and I basically just I mean,
17:18
Speaker 1: it doesn't take a science. So they have very guerrilla tactics.
17:23
Speaker 1: So they booked the choir. I auditions really stressed me out.
17:27
Speaker 1: My aunt was like, well, Jacob, can you take the
17:29
Speaker 1: church choir? And I was just like, yeah, I'm not
17:31
Speaker 1: really want to audition and do all that, Like I
17:33
Speaker 1: don't want to go through that. So she talked really
17:36
Speaker 1: bad about me. So I ended up doing it anyway,
17:39
Speaker 1: Like who do you think you are? You think you're hot? Shit?
17:40
Speaker 1: Huh fuck you? So I did it. And they how
17:43
Speaker 1: many were in the choir? Fifteen maybe yeah, twelve maybe
17:47
Speaker 1: it's yeah. And it was the church choir. So these
17:49
Speaker 1: are like the pastor was in the choir. These are
17:52
Speaker 1: like normal everyday working class They weren't like professional singers,
17:56
Speaker 1: and so they booked them. I think they booked them
17:58
Speaker 1: because of the energy and the vibe. They could sing too,
18:02
Speaker 1: but we're like a family church. Everyone was really close
18:05
Speaker 1: in Lamurt Park, like Crenshaw area. So they booked the
18:08
Speaker 1: choir and then they went to Ari's studio. I didn't
18:11
Speaker 1: go because I was like, I'm not going. Y'all can
18:14
Speaker 1: go so that Sunday and true Ryan is the kind
18:17
Speaker 1: of person and Ari too. If they want to get
18:20
Speaker 1: it done, they're gonna get it done. But it was
18:21
Speaker 1: always idea. He was like, I was just kind of
18:26
Speaker 1: like I was so involved up. It was always idea,
18:29
Speaker 1: which was a pretty divided in Did you already know
18:33
Speaker 1: in your minds it's a group or no, not at all.
18:36
Speaker 1: I know this is a long story. I still not
18:38
Speaker 1: sure it is. So they come to the church and
18:41
Speaker 1: when I get out of church, they have set up
18:43
Speaker 1: a remote studio in the choir room. Now at this
18:47
Speaker 1: point they hadn't heard me sing, but I think the
18:49
Speaker 1: people in the choir were like, oh, Jacob is the
18:51
Speaker 1: guy who do sings and does all this. We just
18:53
Speaker 1: do what he tells us to do. No, we saw
18:55
Speaker 1: you sing in the church service. Oh you did? Okay?
18:58
Speaker 1: Afterwards that if he tried to it with most Like
19:01
Speaker 1: he literally just was like this was at the early stages,
19:05
Speaker 1: and this this wasn't even just trying to like be
19:07
Speaker 1: a group or anything. We were just trying to get
19:09
Speaker 1: the job were j It just became really clear at
19:12
Speaker 1: a certain point where Jacob was direct, he knew all
19:15
Speaker 1: the parts, you know, he could arrange the whole choir,
19:17
Speaker 1: and he was leading everybody, and the job was still
19:20
Speaker 1: a piece of music for a movie. That's kind of
19:24
Speaker 1: like that we started there. So it was like this
19:26
Speaker 1: thing where we ended up getting to really good friends
19:29
Speaker 1: went in the process and we were just sort of
19:31
Speaker 1: like mating up at either are his place or my
19:33
Speaker 1: place out in the desert, and these guys would come
19:36
Speaker 1: out and stay and we were honestly just making music,
19:39
Speaker 1: really failing our way of how to make songs. And
19:42
Speaker 1: there was something where like I can think speak on
19:44
Speaker 1: be off the three of us that when we left
19:46
Speaker 1: these times when we like would come together hang out
19:49
Speaker 1: for a few minutes, I mean, these guys stay at
19:51
Speaker 1: my house, and it was like all of a sudden,
19:53
Speaker 1: like Jake was like this guy's like were stay in
19:55
Speaker 1: his house, Like Yeah, Jacob to this day never really
20:00
Speaker 1: he never he never stays out anywhere. He's like he's
20:02
Speaker 1: really a little bit. But he really didn't. He didn't
20:06
Speaker 1: let us know that that he was like honestly, it
20:08
Speaker 1: was just something internally was like crazy, actually see this out. Yeah,
20:13
Speaker 1: And we just were making music for fun, and we
20:16
Speaker 1: would stay for like a week, and we were just
20:18
Speaker 1: really slow process. Maybe stay for a week, maybe get
20:21
Speaker 1: like one or two songs, like little ideas, and we
20:24
Speaker 1: were kind of seeing where we all, this is happening
20:27
Speaker 1: in La or was this happening I was happening in
20:30
Speaker 1: the desert at the time, because I moved out there
20:32
Speaker 1: to write the film with somebody who key would coop
20:35
Speaker 1: came to live with me for a year. So these
20:37
Speaker 1: guys would come in week one. So everybody lives in California, now, yeah,
20:40
Speaker 1: well I'm half of I live in LA but it's
20:44
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in the UK. I see yeah,
20:47
Speaker 1: I see yeah. And I live up in Pinion Crest,
20:49
Speaker 1: up in the mountains and just got a place out there,
20:51
Speaker 1: and then Ari's in Burbank. And then as we started
20:54
Speaker 1: when we did Loyalty, that was the first song we
20:57
Speaker 1: actually really finished. Was for a proud of commercial that
21:00
Speaker 1: R and I were working on, and we did the
21:03
Speaker 1: song basically for the commercial and then the song was
21:06
Speaker 1: just strong. All these people were like hit so just like, oh,
21:10
Speaker 1: you've got any more material and we're like yeah, and
21:11
Speaker 1: we had fuck all you know what I mean? We
21:14
Speaker 1: because that twenty eight thing. Yeah, yeah, and that was
21:20
Speaker 1: the first thing that felt like we were like, oh
21:22
Speaker 1: we have us this is a song, you know. And
21:24
Speaker 1: it was strange because we actually wrote the length of
21:27
Speaker 1: a whole song or was it just sixty second and
21:30
Speaker 1: then we were like add an extra verse and it
21:33
Speaker 1: back and yeah, and then we made it a complete
21:36
Speaker 1: and then it ended up on Radio one in the UK,
21:38
Speaker 1: like and we had it was or there were any
21:40
Speaker 1: other songs nothing. Yeah. What was funny was we wrote
21:43
Speaker 1: the lyrics based on what the little short film was
21:46
Speaker 1: about in a weird way, so it just gave immediate
21:49
Speaker 1: content to write about in this way, which is very
21:51
Speaker 1: much the style of what we've developed. Right. It's like
21:54
Speaker 1: it started like it's like that, but really like even
21:57
Speaker 1: we just did the Taboos, our most recent song right
21:59
Speaker 1: like that we wrote Yeah, we we literally wrote that
22:02
Speaker 1: third song. We just played that. We wrote that like
22:04
Speaker 1: eight weeks ago. Oh yeah, seven weeks ago. But but
22:07
Speaker 1: our writing vibe is it's very cinematic and that we
22:11
Speaker 1: and I've done some acting in some theater and stuff.
22:13
Speaker 1: We literally in TV and film whatever, but we literally
22:16
Speaker 1: sit ourselves in the room of whatever it is, What
22:18
Speaker 1: does it smell like, what does it feel like? And
22:20
Speaker 1: once we get that clear, the songs just like the
22:24
Speaker 1: thing what's been like the thing that's been a real
22:26
Speaker 1: cutlast that we've been wrangling with is like that's been
22:29
Speaker 1: the thing that we've done from get go. I mean,
22:31
Speaker 1: I met Ari is like a composer. You know, he
22:33
Speaker 1: was composing films when I met him, and it's like
22:36
Speaker 1: this thing where the three of us about this film thing.
22:39
Speaker 1: But we've kind of been through this process where that
22:42
Speaker 1: just yeah to technique for writing lyrics. But what's the point, right,
22:47
Speaker 1: It's kind of like something we've been development of getting
22:50
Speaker 1: the heart into that from a personal angle is what
22:53
Speaker 1: we've been working on. And in order to do that,
22:55
Speaker 1: you kind of need to trust each other. And I
22:58
Speaker 1: think like the thing we've learned the most is like
23:00
Speaker 1: trust is the gear keeper of the real thing, and
23:03
Speaker 1: you have to know each other for a long time.
23:05
Speaker 1: When you create it from people from around the world,
23:07
Speaker 1: different stuff. And that's kind of when the magic really
23:10
Speaker 1: started coming in, when it was actually that rather than
23:14
Speaker 1: just writing film stuff. Yeah, and it was just us
23:17
Speaker 1: coming as very different people disagreeing on things, you know,
23:21
Speaker 1: like how we live our lives, how we see the world,
23:25
Speaker 1: but we can agree to disagree and also where we
23:29
Speaker 1: kind of come in the center and becomes what it is.
23:32
Speaker 1: It's like fifty teach and learning thing, you know, where
23:35
Speaker 1: it feels great. Yeah. Likewise, it's like this thing where
23:38
Speaker 1: you know, somebody once said to me once that that's
23:41
Speaker 1: the definition of joy, beauty and happiness is when an
23:43
Speaker 1: energy fails in fifty fifty balance with any other energy failed,
23:47
Speaker 1: it's when the experience of joy, beauty or happiness occurs.
23:50
Speaker 1: And that is like teaching and learning becoming the same thing,
23:54
Speaker 1: by the way, and like that's what I really truly
23:56
Speaker 1: believe that, Like the songs that we have that are
23:59
Speaker 1: the good ones come out of that. Yeah, beautiful, when
24:03
Speaker 1: did you start singing in church? How old were you?
24:05
Speaker 1: So here's the thing, I really wasn't that good. I
24:07
Speaker 1: was younger. Yeah, I could just be honest. Were you
24:12
Speaker 1: in the choir when you were young or no. I
24:13
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to get into the choir until I was
24:16
Speaker 1: like ten or eleven because you have to like be
24:18
Speaker 1: filled with the holy ghosts and stuff. It's this whole thing.
24:21
Speaker 1: And then when I got in the choir, I was
24:23
Speaker 1: loud and I had all this stuff, but I didn't
24:27
Speaker 1: know what to do with it. And the church I
24:29
Speaker 1: grew up in the pastor sons were kind of famous musicians,
24:31
Speaker 1: so we had like all these amazing singers and musicians
24:35
Speaker 1: and stuff, so there wasn't really space for this kid
24:39
Speaker 1: who's a mess, and not in a negative way. It
24:42
Speaker 1: just I just didn't know what I was doing. It's
24:45
Speaker 1: like you have a toolbox and you're just like throwing
24:47
Speaker 1: a hammer at a nail. It's like, what is he doing?
24:50
Speaker 1: And then I started singing in school, and I kind
24:52
Speaker 1: of got recognized pretty quickly in school because it once you,
24:56
Speaker 1: once you like put me on the path, I can
24:58
Speaker 1: like fly. So in school, they put you on the path.
25:00
Speaker 1: And when I got my in my senior high school,
25:03
Speaker 1: I realized I wanted to do music, but it was
25:04
Speaker 1: kind of like not realistic, and so I was going
25:08
Speaker 1: to join the millet Terry. They offered me a hundred
25:10
Speaker 1: grand to join. Sometimes I still regret it not going.
25:14
Speaker 1: So I moved down. I kind of moved out like
25:16
Speaker 1: pretty much on. Mom was like, if you ain't doing that,
25:18
Speaker 1: you ain't gonna be an his house singing. So I
25:20
Speaker 1: went to college, not studying music. I took a voice
25:22
Speaker 1: class and the lady was like, you were born to sing.
25:24
Speaker 1: So I was going to do classical music. That was
25:26
Speaker 1: my thought, because that's a plan. I can go to school,
25:28
Speaker 1: I can get a degree, and even if I'm in
25:30
Speaker 1: the chorus at the met I'll make seventy five grand
25:32
Speaker 1: a year. Like that's I could do. You'll be work
25:34
Speaker 1: a working singer. Yes, I could do that. And then
25:37
Speaker 1: I started answer going to Craigslist and answering ads on
25:40
Speaker 1: Craigslist where there was an ad for a hip hop
25:43
Speaker 1: artist looking for background singers for a Christmas project. So
25:47
Speaker 1: I went. I auditioned, I saying I believe in you,
25:49
Speaker 1: and me ended it up being Nate Dog. I don't
25:51
Speaker 1: know if you know who Nate Dog is. So it
25:53
Speaker 1: was a Nate Dog. And when was this? This was
25:55
Speaker 1: two thousand and six or seven a while ago, Oh
25:59
Speaker 1: my god. Yes, And you've been doing it for a while.
26:01
Speaker 1: Oh my god, a lot of time. Okay, So I
26:03
Speaker 1: did that and then I was a good experience. It
26:06
Speaker 1: was a great experience. I dropped out of college. I
26:11
Speaker 1: dropped out of college. I was like, I'm gonna be
26:13
Speaker 1: a singer. That was it. It was like nay dog.
26:16
Speaker 1: And then I and he kind of took I missed
26:18
Speaker 1: the train one night and I lived maybe a three
26:21
Speaker 1: hour train ride from the place, and I saw I
26:23
Speaker 1: spent the night and we talked and I started writing
26:26
Speaker 1: with him, and that was like and he had a
26:27
Speaker 1: stroke and I could. We went in work for a while,
26:30
Speaker 1: and then I did Idol and then that. You know,
26:32
Speaker 1: it was a beautiful experience. Tell me about that. I
26:35
Speaker 1: know very little about that whole world. It's great. How
26:38
Speaker 1: do you first of all, how do you get picked?
26:39
Speaker 1: How many people are there competing to even be on
26:41
Speaker 1: the show. Maybe one hundred and twenty five thousand, I
26:44
Speaker 1: think the year I did a lot. There's a lot
26:46
Speaker 1: a lot. So how did it get down from one
26:47
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five thousand to you? Well, I audition
26:50
Speaker 1: four times. You should tell Rick how you got on
26:52
Speaker 1: this show. Yeah, you should tell him that this is
26:55
Speaker 1: this is like this is a big part of like
27:01
Speaker 1: audition four times, yes, twice. The year I made it,
27:04
Speaker 1: they added la last minute and I went by myself.
27:06
Speaker 1: I had just got a job, and I was like,
27:08
Speaker 1: oh my god, I got I fucked this American out
27:10
Speaker 1: of bullshit. They're gonna tell me no anyway, Well, the
27:13
Speaker 1: job hired too many people, so I had to wait
27:14
Speaker 1: a week to train my grandmother. I didn't have any money.
27:17
Speaker 1: She gave me fifteen dollars for the bus. I didn't
27:19
Speaker 1: have my ID at the time. Like I should not
27:22
Speaker 1: have been able to audition. I was able to audition.
27:24
Speaker 1: I made it through. And then I was like, hey,
27:26
Speaker 1: I have these tickets, you know, because you can't so
27:29
Speaker 1: you can't have an open ticket. So let's say today
27:31
Speaker 1: you ran to stop signing. You got a ticket. You
27:34
Speaker 1: can't be on American idol. It has to be paid
27:36
Speaker 1: off and cleared. You can't have any pinning court cases.
27:38
Speaker 1: So I had tons of them. I had. I got
27:41
Speaker 1: a school a ticket for ditching school. I had tickets
27:44
Speaker 1: for not riding the train without my ticket, like hopping
27:47
Speaker 1: on the train. So I had warrants all kinds of
27:49
Speaker 1: stuff for like stupid. Yeah, little things. So I go
27:52
Speaker 1: there and then like okay. So I was like, hey, guys,
27:54
Speaker 1: have these tickets. Are like, well, why don't you make
27:55
Speaker 1: it first, because you probably ain't even gonna make it,
27:58
Speaker 1: so just chill out. But I let them know. So
28:01
Speaker 1: I go through all the steps and I finally get
28:02
Speaker 1: to the celebrity judges and I make it You're going
28:06
Speaker 1: to Hollywood. So then they send you to a private
28:08
Speaker 1: invested They ask you all these questions about your life. Yeah,
28:11
Speaker 1: have you done this, have you done this? Have you
28:13
Speaker 1: done this? Have you been here? Have you been there?
28:14
Speaker 1: Have you been here? And they say it's to protect yourself,
28:17
Speaker 1: but also to protect the show so if anything comes out,
28:19
Speaker 1: like they know what's going on. So go through all
28:21
Speaker 1: that and then I was like, well I have these tickets.
28:23
Speaker 1: You're like okay, well you have to have these tickets
28:25
Speaker 1: cleared up by Thanksgiving because Hollywood Week is in December
28:29
Speaker 1: and you can't come here with these tickets. And I
28:32
Speaker 1: was like, okay, I'm on it. So the next day,
28:35
Speaker 1: in the same clothes, I go to the courthouse and
28:37
Speaker 1: I go, hey, have these sickts I want to getting
28:39
Speaker 1: cleared up. They go, okay, well, you can get a
28:41
Speaker 1: court date for January fifth. It'll take care of the warrants,
28:43
Speaker 1: but you'll I was like, no, that's not gonna work
28:45
Speaker 1: because I can't I can't wait till jan I need
28:48
Speaker 1: to see a judge right now. Well there's no available time,
28:50
Speaker 1: so you can't kiss grits or you can pay for it.
28:53
Speaker 1: It's five thousand dollars. Well, I ain't got five thousand
28:56
Speaker 1: dollars and I wouldn't even think to ask my grandma
28:58
Speaker 1: to ask five thousand dollars, so I'm not to go
29:01
Speaker 1: on American idol like are you stupid? That's not gonna work.
29:03
Speaker 1: So it quickly cocked up an idea. I was like,
29:07
Speaker 1: leave it alone, don't touch it. So I go next door.
29:10
Speaker 1: I go to the police station and I say, hey,
29:12
Speaker 1: i'd like to turn myself in. I have warrants. I
29:14
Speaker 1: need to go to jail. I'm happy as a lark.
29:17
Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, well no, we can't. We can't
29:19
Speaker 1: do that. I was like, well, yes, you can't. I
29:21
Speaker 1: have warrants. Well no, these are like like these are
29:23
Speaker 1: train tickets, buddy, We're not going to take you to
29:25
Speaker 1: jail for train tickets and stuff like we're not, and
29:28
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I really need to go. And
29:29
Speaker 1: now what's interesting is I was an explorer at this
29:32
Speaker 1: same police station the year before. Explores like a little
29:36
Speaker 1: mini police officer. Cool. So they like train people in
29:39
Speaker 1: the hood to get them comfortable with the police and
29:41
Speaker 1: then delt you know, it's a feeding thing, you become
29:43
Speaker 1: police officer. So I was ironically explore at the same
29:46
Speaker 1: police station. She felt comfortable going there. Yeah, I was like,
29:49
Speaker 1: take me to jail, bron. They would not take me
29:52
Speaker 1: to jail, so I sat there for an entire hour.
29:55
Speaker 1: Two hours goes by. I'm not gonna say he can
29:57
Speaker 1: y'all please take me. I'll call my grandma. My grandma mother,
30:00
Speaker 1: go to jail. She's like, no, what are you talking about?
30:02
Speaker 1: And then my phone goes dead because I don't realize
30:04
Speaker 1: how serious jail is. Yes, anyway, fast forward, so they
30:09
Speaker 1: I finally take me to jail. Finally, after like hours
30:13
Speaker 1: and hours, I'm like, I am trying to do the
30:15
Speaker 1: right thing. Take me to jail. I really only want
30:18
Speaker 1: to go so that I can see a judge, because
30:19
Speaker 1: they have to, and then I can get the tickets
30:21
Speaker 1: taken care of. So they finally picked me up. So
30:24
Speaker 1: I get in the car and he's like, Okay, what
30:26
Speaker 1: is your deal, bro? Like, what is your problem? Like,
30:28
Speaker 1: you're a good looking guy. What the fuck is wrong
30:30
Speaker 1: with what? You're trying to go jail? Like what's the problem.
30:32
Speaker 1: So I say, well, I'm auditioned for the show. Yeah. Yeah,
30:34
Speaker 1: and that's the only way I can see a judge.
30:35
Speaker 1: He was like, oh, okay. Cool. So he's like, well,
30:38
Speaker 1: you shouldn't go to jail with those nice clothes on,
30:40
Speaker 1: like this is jail. So I was like, I was like, well, oh,
30:42
Speaker 1: He's like, we I'll stop you. I'll stop by your
30:44
Speaker 1: mom's house and let you change clothes. I think he
30:46
Speaker 1: was trying to like, now that I'm thinking about it,
30:49
Speaker 1: like hopefully someone will come and help me and tell
30:50
Speaker 1: me don't go to jail, like it's not a game. Yes.
30:53
Speaker 1: So I get to my mom's house. She left the
30:55
Speaker 1: door open for me. He goes, she left the door
30:56
Speaker 1: open for you. Why would she do that? And I
30:58
Speaker 1: was like, well, because my mom has thinking about giving
31:01
Speaker 1: me a key to her house. This is her house, like,
31:02
Speaker 1: and I don't live there. So he goes in gun drawn.
31:05
Speaker 1: The neighbors see him going in Wow, guns are drawn. Yeah,
31:09
Speaker 1: So he brings out my clothes. I changed clothes. I
31:11
Speaker 1: go to jail. So I go to Lindwo Jim. I'm sorry,
31:13
Speaker 1: this is a long story. No, it's fine, all right,
31:15
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I go to Linwood. Y'all do my mug shot.
31:17
Speaker 1: I'm like, I gotta look fierce and look too happy
31:19
Speaker 1: because I know. I know that if I make it
31:22
Speaker 1: on the show and I do well, which is what
31:23
Speaker 1: I'm hoping will happen, yes, this is gonna come out. Yeah.
31:26
Speaker 1: So I do my face, I do my photo. So
31:28
Speaker 1: I go to the courthouse right now, mind you, this
31:30
Speaker 1: is like stupid ticket bullshit. So it's gonna get clear.
31:33
Speaker 1: It's gonna be done, of course. So I go and
31:35
Speaker 1: he's like, okay, great, all right, well just dismiss the ticket.
31:38
Speaker 1: You're fine, buddy, you don't worry about it. It's gun
31:40
Speaker 1: you've been in here, you've been to jail. Nowaday, it's
31:42
Speaker 1: all taken care of. Well, that didn't happen. So after
31:46
Speaker 1: I see the judge, I go back and it's getting
31:48
Speaker 1: later and later. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm supposed to
31:50
Speaker 1: go home, and they're like yeah, sure, and I'm like no, no, no,
31:55
Speaker 1: I'm really supposed to go home, Like this is not like,
31:57
Speaker 1: this is just you know, Linwood is like I still
31:59
Speaker 1: have my clothes on, like it was my own little room,
32:02
Speaker 1: Like oh okay, sure. So now it's like six or
32:04
Speaker 1: seven o'clock and now they put me in shackles and
32:07
Speaker 1: now I'm going to Twin Towns, which is not cute.
32:11
Speaker 1: So now I'm in Twin Towers for three days. I
32:12
Speaker 1: get lost in the system. Wow, So it doesn't even
32:15
Speaker 1: show that I'm in jail, so nobody knows where I am.
32:18
Speaker 1: I can't get out. I don't and I've never been
32:20
Speaker 1: to jail before, so I was like, well, I'll just
32:21
Speaker 1: sit here. The Lord will make away. So after a
32:24
Speaker 1: couple of days, I finally get out, like and I
32:27
Speaker 1: run home in the rain. It was very like, very
32:29
Speaker 1: much like a movie. I caught the train without a
32:31
Speaker 1: fair again. I got on the train and did not
32:36
Speaker 1: pay my fair. Again. Yes, it's the purple line that
32:39
Speaker 1: people leaves are never run the purple line. Yeah. And
32:41
Speaker 1: I run home in the rain, and then you know,
32:44
Speaker 1: and then I do. Then I get to Hollywood Week
32:46
Speaker 1: and it seems like every step there was like a
32:48
Speaker 1: thing where I should have been cut, but I wasn't.
32:50
Speaker 1: So I did Hollywood Week and then I sang a
32:51
Speaker 1: song called Goblin's a Child, which I said it was
32:54
Speaker 1: like the best ever auditioned on the Idol. Then I
32:56
Speaker 1: did the show and the show was beautiful. You become
32:57
Speaker 1: famous overnight, like it's nuts. You're in magazines and you know,
33:01
Speaker 1: I placed fifth, the winner of Scotty McCurry amazing to
33:04
Speaker 1: think of. Everyone was really great in my season. The
33:06
Speaker 1: judges were incredible, like Jail taught me how to wear
33:09
Speaker 1: my in ears. Like it was a beautiful experience. What
33:11
Speaker 1: they don't prepare you for is the social media craziness
33:15
Speaker 1: because they'd never had social media before. So I was
33:17
Speaker 1: not like it was crazy. The comments people say, they
33:20
Speaker 1: say a lot of nice things to say a lot
33:22
Speaker 1: of bad things. I wasn't ready for it. And then
33:25
Speaker 1: they don't prepare you for the fall after, because I was.
33:28
Speaker 1: They make you feel like, if you do the show
33:30
Speaker 1: and you do well, I did place fifth that no
33:32
Speaker 1: matter what. And actually someone told me this, you have
33:35
Speaker 1: enough money to live on for the rest of your life.
33:37
Speaker 1: That was a lie. Yes, So I get off the
33:39
Speaker 1: show and you have nothing. I had a couple deals
33:43
Speaker 1: here and there that were off and on. But it
33:44
Speaker 1: was a struggle like being an artist. It was like
33:46
Speaker 1: starting over from scratch, even worse because people want to
33:49
Speaker 1: touch you because you're on the show. You're on the show.
33:52
Speaker 1: So I had some ups and downs and went through
33:53
Speaker 1: that and in and out. Had a church gig here
33:55
Speaker 1: at a church there. There, I had a management situation
33:57
Speaker 1: that ended kind of badly. They canceled all my gigs
33:59
Speaker 1: for the rest of the year and dropped me and
34:02
Speaker 1: took and kept the money. Wow. And so I was like, well,
34:05
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a job. And I worked for a
34:07
Speaker 1: sunglasses company called Good and that helped kind of push
34:11
Speaker 1: me into this, Like I had never been an environment
34:14
Speaker 1: where I was like loved and told to be myself
34:16
Speaker 1: and be comfortable on who you are. And even in music,
34:20
Speaker 1: I had never really felt that way because you got
34:21
Speaker 1: to think, I have my start writing, so when you're
34:23
Speaker 1: writing for the artists, you're writing in their style. Yeah, right,
34:26
Speaker 1: And so I had never had a space to really
34:30
Speaker 1: find what naturally just comes out of my body. Right,
34:35
Speaker 1: even in church I'm doing a church thing, I never
34:37
Speaker 1: got to what naturally just comes out. But this has
34:41
Speaker 1: allowed me to really just whatever naturally comes out, and
34:45
Speaker 1: they've pushed me to do that, and it's been a
34:47
Speaker 1: safe place for me to do that. So it's just
34:50
Speaker 1: been absolutely life changing between Goodder and these two white men,
34:55
Speaker 1: even though he's not why he's technically are I meaning
34:56
Speaker 1: an American, it's been it's between Goodder and them. It's
35:03
Speaker 1: been in the last few years. I never you're not
35:06
Speaker 1: you dream of a thing, but you're like, I don't
35:08
Speaker 1: know if it's really gonna happen, and I don't know.
35:10
Speaker 1: I don't know what I would have done. Tell me
35:12
Speaker 1: more about your family. I grew up in Compton. My
35:15
Speaker 1: father died when I was twelve. Really suddenly, my mom
35:19
Speaker 1: is from Georgia. My grandmother is from Georgia's where they
35:21
Speaker 1: moved to la when they were younger. When my mom
35:24
Speaker 1: was very little, my grandmother remarried. Her husband died in
35:27
Speaker 1: a car accident, and she had never worked, so they
35:31
Speaker 1: My family experienced a lot of death in tragedy, like
35:34
Speaker 1: a lot of it. It's kind of nuts. My uncle
35:36
Speaker 1: committed suicide a few years ago. He jumped off a building,
35:39
Speaker 1: and it's been like, it's nuts, But there's this thing
35:44
Speaker 1: I kind of interviewed my grandmother when we re released
35:47
Speaker 1: the EP and for her to experience all that, and
35:51
Speaker 1: she said she was she learned really young. There are
35:54
Speaker 1: no mountains too high to climb, yes, And I was
35:56
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, this little lady, this is
35:58
Speaker 1: what she thinks. And there's a little bit of me
36:01
Speaker 1: that kind of feels ouay too. But anyway, I'm an
36:02
Speaker 1: only child, only grandchild on my mom's side, so I
36:05
Speaker 1: was very kind of sheltered. And I grew up in Compton.
36:08
Speaker 1: This is a little hood, you know what I'm saying.
36:10
Speaker 1: But my mother did everything that she could to make
36:12
Speaker 1: sure that I was able to experience other things and
36:16
Speaker 1: know that there was another way of life for me
36:18
Speaker 1: where she fucked up what she made me feel like
36:21
Speaker 1: I could be anything. And so I really believe that
36:25
Speaker 1: even sometimes when you don't like you have those normals
36:27
Speaker 1: where you doubt it and you're like, nah, it's not
36:28
Speaker 1: gonna happen, there's always this little bitty piece of me
36:32
Speaker 1: that's like looking at ten million dollar houses in Pasadena. Yeah,
36:35
Speaker 1: but maybe maybe this band wouldn't wouldn't have happened if
36:38
Speaker 1: you didn't keep that thought alive. You know, it's impossible
36:42
Speaker 1: to know, impossible to know. And I'll say this, the
36:45
Speaker 1: world and the music industry in particular has not been
36:49
Speaker 1: a place that I felt like harbored individuality. It did
36:55
Speaker 1: not feel like ace. And this is no I'm not
36:57
Speaker 1: bashing anyone. I had beautiful experiences. I've worked to some
37:00
Speaker 1: of the most basic people in the industry. But it
37:03
Speaker 1: doesn't harbor people being themselves. It doesn't harbor people being
37:08
Speaker 1: comfortable in themselves. And then you even get people who
37:11
Speaker 1: are enemy needs ministry. He really shouldn't be because it doesn't.
37:14
Speaker 1: It's not a safe place for that's people that's really
37:16
Speaker 1: their heart. And so with this experience, it's allowed me
37:20
Speaker 1: and pushed me to like, this is the most of
37:22
Speaker 1: myself I've ever been congratulationship. That's crazy. I'm gonna tell
37:28
Speaker 1: you how old I am man a guy. But it's
37:31
Speaker 1: to now be at this place where I'm actually starting
37:34
Speaker 1: to look at myself and like be okay with myself,
37:38
Speaker 1: Like when I was younger and fine and had body
37:41
Speaker 1: ya ya ya yadi. Oh my god, what would have
37:44
Speaker 1: happened if I was able to embrace myself and my
37:47
Speaker 1: voice and who I and and really fine, my real voice.
37:51
Speaker 1: Then oh my god, it's this long. And my hope
37:56
Speaker 1: is that when people grab onto that, like when they
37:59
Speaker 1: see our shows, like, oh well shit, let me be
38:01
Speaker 1: myself too, and find out what really makes me happy,
38:05
Speaker 1: what really makes me hold whatever that is, even if
38:08
Speaker 1: it's not because some people, I think a lot of
38:10
Speaker 1: people doing shit they don't really want to fucking do
38:12
Speaker 1: still want to fucking work that job. Most find what
38:16
Speaker 1: really makes you happy. I'm sorry, I'm going on a rant. Beautiful,
38:21
Speaker 1: I am the most happy with these guys. Yeah, I
38:24
Speaker 1: am the most happy. I want it's just us. Yes,
38:27
Speaker 1: these fucking white boys who are completely different than me, Yes,
38:32
Speaker 1: who are like, oh damn, these are my brothers, Like
38:34
Speaker 1: these are my bros. That's beautiful and it's been the
38:36
Speaker 1: best experience in my life. I'm sorry, No, I love it.
38:39
Speaker 1: I love It's beautiful. And now you, hopefully you'll be
38:42
Speaker 1: in a position to turn other people onto that possibility. Yes,
38:46
Speaker 1: and maybe it's not just through the shows, but maybe
38:48
Speaker 1: there are other ways, and it'd be interesting for us
38:51
Speaker 1: to talk about that and figure out what that is.
38:53
Speaker 1: Because I love the idea of spreading that message because
38:56
Speaker 1: ultimately it's good for everybody. It's good for it's good
38:59
Speaker 1: for you to feel like yourself. But then we get
39:02
Speaker 1: to hear the music that's true coming from you because
39:06
Speaker 1: you feel like yourself. And if artists don't feel like
39:09
Speaker 1: it can be themselves, what do we get to listen to?
39:12
Speaker 1: What do we get to, what do we get to see?
39:14
Speaker 1: It all becomes the same. You know, it's all just
39:17
Speaker 1: everybody trying to be someone else, and none of it's
39:20
Speaker 1: interesting and none of it's good, and nobody cares, and
39:23
Speaker 1: people making it don't care about it. The people scrolling
39:27
Speaker 1: through what they're going to choose don't choose it because
39:29
Speaker 1: it's all the same and it's all cookie cutter and
39:31
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. So the fact that you're having this experience,
39:35
Speaker 1: you're getting to work on something different that excites you.
39:38
Speaker 1: It's the best advertisement for more good things to come.
39:43
Speaker 1: And when I say more good things come, I don't
39:45
Speaker 1: mean copying what you're doing. I mean people doing their
39:49
Speaker 1: their own thing, whatever it is. Okay, I'm ranting with you.
39:56
Speaker 1: We feel like we feel exactly. They couldn't have said it.
39:58
Speaker 1: You pretty much just said exactly what goes on when
40:01
Speaker 1: we're halfway between ordering chick fil I'm watching a Brittany documentary.
40:06
Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break here, but we'll
40:07
Speaker 1: be back with more from Rick Ruben and Gabriel's baby
40:21
Speaker 1: Girl is finding nineteen, raised on Cafish and cold green,
40:31
Speaker 1: brown ass, smugging real schweet kid in time with a
40:38
Speaker 1: strong heartbeat. Michael said, she's gonna break my heart and
40:48
Speaker 1: then take my should she try to help me stop
41:06
Speaker 1: in Mangan shame bitch done in fashion sheet show the
41:15
Speaker 1: shore beauty twink, I slow them shame. Nobody said that
41:25
Speaker 1: you ain't got the basic changing game and change in eye.
41:29
Speaker 1: You're just another motherfucker looking up at the nerrorball just
41:37
Speaker 1: where I could show somebody helped me. I've been feeling
41:54
Speaker 1: behind and sweep been needing you. It's time down for
42:06
Speaker 1: me to come this spichit thing the sky cra still
42:14
Speaker 1: like we cock you win. I can cook a ren again.
42:27
Speaker 1: I don't need nothing but time. It will be just fine.
42:32
Speaker 1: We think went from no matter what, STA trail me
42:38
Speaker 1: up some down and I sad that I came shot
42:50
Speaker 1: speak Ja gets always Ja like it's always. That was
43:34
Speaker 1: Gabriel's performing their song Angels and Queens Live for Us
43:37
Speaker 1: at Arlan studio in Austin, Texas. Here's the rest of
43:41
Speaker 1: their interview with Rick Rubin. How did it go from
43:45
Speaker 1: the three of you to what we're experiencing you guys
43:49
Speaker 1: playing as a live band. How did that happen? That happened?
43:52
Speaker 1: I guess post COVID, because we had it kind of
43:55
Speaker 1: all came to a head a bit in like we
44:00
Speaker 1: had been working on it really sporadically, so that Loyalty
44:03
Speaker 1: song kind of came out, and then some labels, people
44:07
Speaker 1: who I had been working I was in another bit
44:09
Speaker 1: and that was also signed to a label, and they
44:11
Speaker 1: started reaching out to us like what's this, Like, you know,
44:14
Speaker 1: do you have more music? Stuff like that? And then
44:16
Speaker 1: we were like, oh no. And then we just kind
44:19
Speaker 1: of got together back at my place and wrote a
44:23
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, one of which is actually one of
44:25
Speaker 1: those songs we played here, which was that was in
44:27
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Then we just started kind of putting it together.
44:31
Speaker 1: I have some friends Ryan Us, some friends Jacobes of
44:34
Speaker 1: friends that like play, so we had this little community
44:37
Speaker 1: of musicians that we would bring in and then it
44:39
Speaker 1: was like COVID. Actually our last session in the desert,
44:43
Speaker 1: we wrote another song called stranger and then we were like,
44:47
Speaker 1: we had one of our songs mastered, this one called
44:49
Speaker 1: in Loving Memory, and he was like, maybe let's put
44:51
Speaker 1: that out now because there's nothing going on whatever, and
44:56
Speaker 1: then we could kind of put it into the ZP.
44:58
Speaker 1: We had some songs at this point. Then we put
45:02
Speaker 1: that song out and then it gained a lot of traction,
45:04
Speaker 1: you know, like Giles Peterson played it and Virgil Ablow
45:10
Speaker 1: played it on his radio show, which was amazing, and
45:13
Speaker 1: we were just like, yeah, it was in the same week.
45:16
Speaker 1: So then all of a sudden we were like, let's
45:18
Speaker 1: get together this vinyl, you know, and we put it together,
45:22
Speaker 1: put it out in December, and I remember just like
45:24
Speaker 1: we put it on bandcamp and just seeing like the
45:26
Speaker 1: band camp notifications on my phone. It was kind of crazy.
45:30
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, this is nuts. So it started
45:33
Speaker 1: getting picked up, you know, BBC, especially in the UK,
45:36
Speaker 1: they started really supporting it, and you know, it took
45:40
Speaker 1: a bit of time, you know, and there was a
45:42
Speaker 1: lot of talk, a lot of people coming in, you know, labels, managers,
45:46
Speaker 1: different people, and I guess around early twenty twenty one,
45:51
Speaker 1: we got like a DM from our manager now Duncan
45:57
Speaker 1: and duncan Ellis, and we were big fans of Celeste,
46:02
Speaker 1: who he also managed, so in our eyes were like,
46:05
Speaker 1: maybe we could make a cool song with her, you know,
46:07
Speaker 1: something like that. We you know, I like what he's done,
46:11
Speaker 1: you know, and it seems like she's doing cool work.
46:15
Speaker 1: And we were all obviously, you know, trying to figure
46:19
Speaker 1: out how to make money and stuff like that, so
46:20
Speaker 1: it felt like yeah, exactly. And then it was like,
46:25
Speaker 1: all right, it feels like the right time because we
46:27
Speaker 1: had kind of independently we self released that first EP,
46:30
Speaker 1: you know, me and Ryan, like Jake, we invested all
46:34
Speaker 1: our own money into it, you know. We made we
46:36
Speaker 1: did a like a Calvin Klein campaign that had a
46:38
Speaker 1: bunch of our songs in it, and that was a
46:40
Speaker 1: really good marker for us because that was like this
46:43
Speaker 1: really high end job. It was actually very artistic, and
46:47
Speaker 1: we were just trying out these little ideas of new
46:49
Speaker 1: songs on it, and then people were liking it, and
46:51
Speaker 1: it was by the Calvin I'm very different from the
46:55
Speaker 1: tent music that they had, so we'd just like they'd
46:58
Speaker 1: give us tent, but then we'd just give them a
46:59
Speaker 1: whole different song on it. That was like completely different,
47:02
Speaker 1: and then they would just go with it and we
47:04
Speaker 1: were like, that's cool, you know, And so does it
47:06
Speaker 1: start as a jam? Am essentially like, is there a
47:11
Speaker 1: musical jam? There's a music, there's a musical idea, there
47:16
Speaker 1: is there a vocal idea, or you'll hear an instrumental
47:18
Speaker 1: track and start singing just whatever comes. How does it work?
47:21
Speaker 1: It's so usually they've done a musical kind of idea
47:26
Speaker 1: of a song, but including the melody no, no, just
47:31
Speaker 1: us a song that's written. Yeah. Now, sometimes in their
47:36
Speaker 1: music discovery there may there may have been a melody
47:40
Speaker 1: that they may pick up or whatever I see, but
47:42
Speaker 1: we try to keep it as raw as possible, and
47:45
Speaker 1: then when I come then we sometimes there might be
47:48
Speaker 1: a melody idea. Sometimes we'll have a conversation. Sometimes we
47:51
Speaker 1: would have watched like when we did Glory, we watched
47:54
Speaker 1: the Tina Turner doc and then that kind of helps
47:57
Speaker 1: influence it or in the in the music starts, but
47:59
Speaker 1: it's always it's just a starting place. So the music changes,
48:02
Speaker 1: the melody change, and the changes a few times in
48:05
Speaker 1: the process. But it's for me, it's really allowing the
48:11
Speaker 1: song to speak, yes, like allowing it to say yes
48:15
Speaker 1: what it wants to say. Sometimes like Taboo when we
48:18
Speaker 1: were writing it and I wanted to add this, like
48:22
Speaker 1: I just let me just add I just want to
48:24
Speaker 1: add this part where this musical breaking isn't just like
48:26
Speaker 1: you know, the song doesn't doesn't need that, It doesn't
48:29
Speaker 1: need that. Why are we Why are you just gonna
48:30
Speaker 1: shove this in there? So it's really allowing the music,
48:34
Speaker 1: the song, the lyric, the story to have its way.
48:38
Speaker 1: The thing that I love is that we really do
48:41
Speaker 1: write the songs completely together, like that's a real thing.
48:44
Speaker 1: But there's also a thing because of that, we don't
48:47
Speaker 1: allow our egos in the room. Yes, when we're doing that,
48:50
Speaker 1: because like I gotta have my piece or I gotta
48:52
Speaker 1: have mine or we don't have that issue because it's
48:54
Speaker 1: ours and it really gives the song the space to
48:58
Speaker 1: do whatever it wants to do. It's beautiful. It sounds
49:00
Speaker 1: like if you're doing that, even if you were doing
49:02
Speaker 1: that by yourself, there's not really room for ego because
49:05
Speaker 1: do you know what I'm saying, If you want it
49:07
Speaker 1: to be its best version of itself, it's bigger than us,
49:11
Speaker 1: you know, It's it's coming from a different place. It's
49:15
Speaker 1: coming from a different Okay, I'm gonna be a really
49:18
Speaker 1: churchy so we got to think all the HOLI ghost right, Yeah,
49:20
Speaker 1: I'm very churchy, yes, but I believe differently. I think
49:24
Speaker 1: love is for everyone, even if we like I think
49:26
Speaker 1: we're supposed to believe differently like and that's fine, and
49:29
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that. I think there is this
49:31
Speaker 1: other thing in the universe. Maybe you call it the universe.
49:35
Speaker 1: Maybe it's energy, Maybe it's something that everything carries. And
49:40
Speaker 1: I think music carries that same thing. And if you
49:44
Speaker 1: just let it lead the way and let it have
49:46
Speaker 1: its way, it will. But oftentimes we get in the way. Yeah,
49:51
Speaker 1: I mean that's like fay much just a life. You know.
49:54
Speaker 1: It's the thing where people just can't get out there,
49:56
Speaker 1: own't go done with, you know. And it's like but
49:59
Speaker 1: in terms of like how it starts, usually with the music,
50:01
Speaker 1: like the starting process, and usually are of like written
50:04
Speaker 1: the music. He'll like get the structure of us. This
50:06
Speaker 1: is what I mean about what like I've learned from him,
50:08
Speaker 1: and like he with the Gabriel songs, he'll write the
50:11
Speaker 1: music of the verse, the chorus, the bride. There'll be
50:13
Speaker 1: a structured thing yes, that's very clearly like developed and
50:16
Speaker 1: lay it out for little cut and then then he'll
50:19
Speaker 1: give me a call out come in. We'll tweak a
50:21
Speaker 1: little bit what's usually he's written and done it. It's
50:23
Speaker 1: already down the line. What my input in that is
50:25
Speaker 1: very minor compared to what are he does. And then
50:28
Speaker 1: at a point when like we'll be like, all right,
50:30
Speaker 1: this is something that we can then bring the Jacob
50:32
Speaker 1: because you just have to give him a litop. I
50:34
Speaker 1: mean you've heard he like he just needs a leop.
50:36
Speaker 1: And it'll sometimes be like it'll be like we've worked
50:39
Speaker 1: through a bunch of tracks, you know, and we pick
50:41
Speaker 1: through what feels like it's going to serve and it's
50:45
Speaker 1: interesting exactly I imagine sometimes depending on what the vocal does,
50:50
Speaker 1: it happens again where it's like, oh, the vocal wants
50:52
Speaker 1: it to go in this direction. Yeah, we thought it
50:54
Speaker 1: was going to go this way. Change it, you know, Hey,
50:59
Speaker 1: can we try to do this or can we change
51:03
Speaker 1: the key? Or can we But there has to be
51:06
Speaker 1: trust that oh, he's really doing this for the sake
51:08
Speaker 1: of the side. Yes, But there's also a thing. Here's
51:11
Speaker 1: the other thing, and this is where having being securing
51:15
Speaker 1: yourself or like being okay, I had a job, they
51:18
Speaker 1: had their thing. This was literally just for the love
51:21
Speaker 1: of the music. Yes, that's the key though, like doing
51:25
Speaker 1: it for the love of the music. That's why it's good.
51:27
Speaker 1: If it ever turns into a job, it won't be
51:30
Speaker 1: the same. It's funny, ever since we did kind of
51:33
Speaker 1: get into you know, a partnership, just being honest, it started,
51:39
Speaker 1: you know, we were like, you know, we're here, we're ourselves,
51:41
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, we we all felt like
51:43
Speaker 1: this is going to be amazing. Yes, and then you know,
51:46
Speaker 1: a lot of other forces, a lot of people come
51:48
Speaker 1: and start trying to tell you how this can be
51:50
Speaker 1: bigger and how this can be better. And then to
51:53
Speaker 1: me and us, it felt like, I'm like, you know,
51:55
Speaker 1: I don't want to like look myself in the mirror
51:58
Speaker 1: and have a song I hate even if I'm like
52:02
Speaker 1: rich as fuck, like, and they might not be right,
52:05
Speaker 1: if that's another part of us, they're wrong. It's just
52:08
Speaker 1: another idea. It's another idea, And chances are what they're
52:10
Speaker 1: telling you is based on what worked for someone else,
52:14
Speaker 1: not what worked for you. So it's it's impossible to know.
52:18
Speaker 1: It's impossible to know. Yeah, and then you're just you know,
52:21
Speaker 1: and then what are you contributing. You're just it's the
52:24
Speaker 1: same music made by the same people for the same audience.
52:27
Speaker 1: So then there's no new ideas. Yeah, if you if
52:31
Speaker 1: you are making your favorite stuff together, that's the best
52:36
Speaker 1: chance you have of anyone else liking it. It's the
52:38
Speaker 1: best chance, better than anything, better than any second guessing
52:41
Speaker 1: that you can do, or any opinions from someone who
52:44
Speaker 1: knows better. If you love it all of if you
52:48
Speaker 1: collectively love it and would be excited to play it
52:52
Speaker 1: for your friends, there is no better test. That's it, absolutely,
52:57
Speaker 1: Because it was like when we were making up in
52:58
Speaker 1: these sporadic times and you know these twill be mine
53:01
Speaker 1: 'll be will be in a laa whatever it was
53:04
Speaker 1: like in the weeks after way it hung out and
53:07
Speaker 1: done something, no matter how raw it was. In the
53:10
Speaker 1: weeks afterwards, I'd be working some other ship and I'd
53:14
Speaker 1: be like, God, I'd just be listening to that drumlobe.
53:16
Speaker 1: I would I'll be going back to that thing and
53:17
Speaker 1: I'd be like feeling that thing of like, oh that
53:21
Speaker 1: that makes me look in the mirr. That's what I'll
53:23
Speaker 1: do well. That's what I want to do, do you
53:25
Speaker 1: know what I mean? It was like and I'd be
53:26
Speaker 1: doing this other stuff that people might think is cool
53:28
Speaker 1: or make money and whatever. We're like, yeah, I'm fucking
53:30
Speaker 1: hit it, you know, I really did. And like that's
53:33
Speaker 1: when I met Ari, like ten years ago. I was
53:35
Speaker 1: I was sick of people telling me my work look
53:37
Speaker 1: great and I just felt nothing. Yeah, Honestly, when I
53:40
Speaker 1: looked at it, I was kind of like I felt
53:42
Speaker 1: like I really didn't fit it look good. And I'm
53:44
Speaker 1: good at what I do when I do, you know,
53:46
Speaker 1: kind of creatively, I'm pretty good at shape and stuff.
53:49
Speaker 1: And it's like this thing where I just didn't feel anything. Man,
53:52
Speaker 1: And like meeting Marie, it was like this weird thing
53:53
Speaker 1: where I was working on stuff. This is before we started.
53:56
Speaker 1: I was like I would leave working with him and
54:00
Speaker 1: the work that happened and the thing I told him,
54:02
Speaker 1: I'd feel like legit, Yeah I would, And then like
54:05
Speaker 1: that would be the same feeling that would then carry
54:07
Speaker 1: on the three of us. Like when we would lave it,
54:09
Speaker 1: I'd be like, damn listening, you know this that's just
54:12
Speaker 1: got something. It's got that thing. And if you think
54:14
Speaker 1: of all of the people who make things trying to
54:17
Speaker 1: get on the radio and don't. Yeh, I make something
54:22
Speaker 1: exactly that's just your taste that you never think would
54:25
Speaker 1: get on the radio, and that gets on the radio.
54:28
Speaker 1: Trust yourself, that's it. That's the test case. Remember that,
54:34
Speaker 1: Remember how it started. Than we needed that. It's funny.
54:39
Speaker 1: It's funny. It's funny that you say that. In my case,
54:42
Speaker 1: it wasn't even trust myself. It was trust them yea,
54:46
Speaker 1: and trust the as like Jacob, this is the best
54:49
Speaker 1: music you've ever done. Yes, fuck it, like literally black black,
54:55
Speaker 1: because I was like, well, no, I need to do this, Jacob,
54:58
Speaker 1: just chill the fuck out. What that's what y'all want
55:02
Speaker 1: to do? All right, that's fine, you want me to
55:04
Speaker 1: do what? Okay? Fine. As a rule, try everything if
55:08
Speaker 1: you ever and I idea that's different, try it also, Yeah,
55:12
Speaker 1: and then we do. That's one thing we do. Rule
55:16
Speaker 1: like that. You never know. You never know. I've tried,
55:20
Speaker 1: but you can. It doesn't always work. It's fine, it's fine,
55:24
Speaker 1: but he is. Trust That process is fun, you know.
55:27
Speaker 1: It's like we love to just even recut, like take
55:30
Speaker 1: everything out here, just vocal and bass or something random
55:33
Speaker 1: and it's like that's exciting to us. That's where like
55:36
Speaker 1: we'll just Jacob will just give us something amazing and
55:40
Speaker 1: then we can nerd. You know. It's like because that's
55:42
Speaker 1: the thing with Bloodline Stranger even Stranger completely reworked and
55:47
Speaker 1: I came back and I cried. I was like, what
55:49
Speaker 1: it's like. But again, it's just you can't try everything
55:52
Speaker 1: if you have a fear of anything, right and trust.
55:57
Speaker 1: Trust is that That's what I was trying to say.
55:58
Speaker 1: It's like the one thing I've learned and the one
56:00
Speaker 1: thing I'll share you right now if I was to
56:02
Speaker 1: give any advice to anybody in my short, very very short,
56:05
Speaker 1: your long music career, what are you talking like? You
56:10
Speaker 1: the fun? Do I think I've been making you? Because
56:13
Speaker 1: you go ago? And I want to be unogize about
56:15
Speaker 1: this right now if I do feel it's impolish as
56:17
Speaker 1: it's just as an artist just to share that trust
56:20
Speaker 1: is the one thing that will be the key to
56:24
Speaker 1: work flaw and you can if you trust teacher of
56:27
Speaker 1: your trust, I'm safe to try something like you're going
56:30
Speaker 1: to nurture that environment. That's true, right, because you're not
56:33
Speaker 1: nurturing that environment for people around you. To feel safe.
56:36
Speaker 1: They've got to trust you to feel safe to try
56:38
Speaker 1: shit and be wrong, nothing wrong with being wrong, and
56:41
Speaker 1: like the thing is is like that is what, that's
56:44
Speaker 1: what kind of we've been building that garden to me,
56:46
Speaker 1: and I will say Ryan's been a very strong part
56:49
Speaker 1: in that for me and Jake. I think he's because
56:54
Speaker 1: you know, I think Jacob and I have a said
56:56
Speaker 1: to kind of be hard on ourselves in certain ways.
56:58
Speaker 1: As most genius is, then Yan's always there to encourage
57:05
Speaker 1: and even stuff that we might not think is something
57:08
Speaker 1: that are just trying, He'll be like, no, keep that
57:11
Speaker 1: that's sick, like really cool, and then you listen to
57:14
Speaker 1: it and it's like that has been invaluable in this
57:18
Speaker 1: experience for you know, anyone, because so cool. I also
57:22
Speaker 1: say this in life in general, we need to create
57:27
Speaker 1: spaces where people are safe and they can cut the
57:32
Speaker 1: bullshit because a lot of us are doing bullshit that's
57:35
Speaker 1: not real musically in life absolutely, and we're making these
57:38
Speaker 1: standards and creating these stories for people and people you're
57:44
Speaker 1: fifty sixty years old and you still don't have a
57:47
Speaker 1: clue of who you really are, what you really want,
57:49
Speaker 1: what you what's really in your heart, what's really you know,
57:52
Speaker 1: And so you've been bullshitting for fifty years. Yeah, now
57:55
Speaker 1: you're sixty five, and now you've realized, Oh, I'm actually
58:00
Speaker 1: don't need all that. I really don't have to do
58:01
Speaker 1: all that. I really don't. But even musically, that's what
58:06
Speaker 1: I think we've created where it's like, we know the truth.
58:10
Speaker 1: You can't bullshit me in here, chick, come on. Really,
58:14
Speaker 1: that's what and that is what my prayer is that
58:18
Speaker 1: the world is able to have that where we can
58:22
Speaker 1: stop bullshitting each other. Beautiful, whatever it is, whatever that is,
58:25
Speaker 1: whatever it is, this is what, This is what brings
58:27
Speaker 1: me peace. This is what I don't want to fucking
58:30
Speaker 1: work a job or whatever it is, whatever it is,
58:33
Speaker 1: just and even if it's even if you have to
58:36
Speaker 1: do something that you're uncomfortable with, yes, at least the
58:39
Speaker 1: truth is known, yes, And it's like knowledge yes, because
58:44
Speaker 1: then you're able to move absolutely beautiful. You never have
58:47
Speaker 1: to apologize to me, You never have to apologize. I
58:53
Speaker 1: go on these ramps and I get lost in space.
58:55
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Point is it's beautiful? All good. Congratulations on yeah,
59:03
Speaker 1: congratulations on finding each other, and congratulations on making beautiful stuff.
59:08
Speaker 1: Nothing better, all right, Thank you for doing this man,
59:12
Speaker 1: Thank you, Yeah, thanks again to Gabriel's I also want
59:20
Speaker 1: to give a shout out to the folks who made
59:22
Speaker 1: that live session sound as beautiful as it does. The
59:25
Speaker 1: whole band, of course, plus Lisa Fletcher at Oreland Studios
59:28
Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. Chris Shaw who engineered that session in
59:32
Speaker 1: Beach Noise who mixed the songs. You can hear all
59:35
Speaker 1: of our favorite Gabriel songs on the playlist at broken
59:37
Speaker 1: Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our
59:40
Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast,
59:44
Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. You
59:47
Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
59:50
Speaker 1: is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday,
59:54
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez, our editor Sophie Crane. Our executive
59:59
Speaker 1: producer is Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of
1:00:03
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin,
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Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for push
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1:00:22
Speaker 1: our show, please remember to share, rate, and review us
1:00:25
Speaker 1: on your podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats
1:00:28
Speaker 1: on Justin Richmond