Latest / Brian Thomas / Tech Friday w/ Dave Hatter - Sponsored by Intrust IT - 6/26/2026

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Tech Friday w/ Dave Hatter - Sponsored by Intrust IT - 6/26/2026 · Brian Thomas

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: At six, starting on a Friday morning, Ready to go
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: with some Friday tech talk with a credentialed cybersecurity consultant.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: We also know him as Doomsday Dave. Dave Hatter back
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: with his son fifty five KRCE the talk station. Dave,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: good morning, How are you?
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I'm good, Gary Jeff, how are you?
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Just just ducky. I got to see got to see
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: my dad this week for Father's Day. Spend time with
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: mom and Dad. I had a fantastic trip and.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: There was very little.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Probably the only time I brushed with technology was this
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: iPhone and of course my computer on wheels that we
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: drove down to Tennessee and and back. But other than
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: that kind of a tech free as much as you
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: can be, it's really difficult to be totally tech free
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: here in twenty twenty six in America, isn't it?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: It really is, Gary Jeff, And you know that's it's
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: funny and we could take so many different angles here,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: but here's a headline for you, since you mentioned your
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: computer on wheels.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Automotive Cybersecurity News Q one twenty six Vehicle vulnerabilities double
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: year on year and hackers brick thousands of cars. So
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: for your listeners who are not familiar with the term
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: brick as it applies to technology, that's what Yeah, that's
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: what nerds like me would say, Like when you upgrade
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: a computer and it won't reboot. It's bricked. It doesn't
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: work anymore. So you know they're they're pointing out in
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: this article that you're so called smart car or fill
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: in anything after the word car is as you mentioned,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: a rolling computer on wheels essentially an Orwellian nightmare and
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: can potentially be remotely controlled, remote access and either a
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: bricked or b potentially turned into some sort of weapon.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: If imagine this for a second, You're in an autonomous car.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: It's taken over by hackers or a nation state actor
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: like the Chinese Communist Party, and they decide to tell
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: it to just accelerate until it can't accelerate anymore, or
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: jam the brakes on, or any number of things. And
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I noticed probably sounds far affetched to some people. But
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: going back as far as I believe it was twenty fifteen,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Wired had two hackers work with a reporter and a
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: great Jeep Grand Cherokee, which was way less sophisticated then
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: than it is now and they were able to do
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: all kinds of things to it. It actually called a
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: recall or it caused a recall rather. So, you know,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: as we add more and more and more technology into things.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: And I think you know this Gary, Jeff, because we've
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: talked about it many times. You know, I spent most
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: of my career as a software engineer. I was a
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: guy that wrote software for businesses to automate stuff. Right now,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about smart devices and so forth. I'm
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: saying this business oriented software. I want to track my widgets.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: You know, how can I optimize this process? That sort
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: of thing? Right So, I've done this for a very
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: long time, and you know, one of my major concerns
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: about all these so called smart devices again, we put
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: software in devices, The software itself potentially has vulnerabilities in it,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: and the incentives for consumers are almost always wrong on
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: this stuff here, Jeff. It's not focused on your privacy,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: your security, your usability, your robustness and resilience of the
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: device so that it will keep working even if the
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: software doesn't work or not. It's generally focused on speed
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: to market, ease of use, market share, profit collecting. As
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: much of your data as possible. And and my long
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: winded point is, again everything is now smart quote unquote
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: what happens when the software and it breaks and the
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: device doesn't work anymore just because software have issues. I
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: would bet you there's not a single person in your
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: listening audience who hasn't run into some kind of problem
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: with some kind of software at some point. And that's
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: not cyber security related. That's not a cyber attack per se.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: That's just the nature of software in the fact that
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: it's complicated and difficult, and the more of it you add,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: the more things connect with each other, the more difficult against.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: But then imagine specific back doors built into it. Backdor
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: just meaning the software itself is designed with flaws that
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: can be exploited by someone else. Okay, imagine something like
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: the Carrington event. Have we ever talked about the Carrington
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: event or do you know what the Carrington event is? Scary, Jeff,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I've been onto this is a hot topic for me lately.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: You know what all I remember about the Carrington's won't
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: take the family on Dynasty.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: They were This is a different, carrying, different carr event
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: back in the late eighteen hundreds. I encourage all of
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: your listeners to go look this up. Again, it ties
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: back into the smart device conversation we're having your refrigerator,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: your car or whatever. Back in the late eighteen hundreds,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: a solar storm hit the earth and it was so
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: strong it actually set telegraph wires on fire and burned
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: out a lot of telegraph stations. Now, again, this is
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: not something I'm making up. This is well docued. In fact,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: the Smithsonian not too long ago did an article on
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: this talking about the potential risk to society as we
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: add more and more tech.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And we weren't leaning on technology the way we are
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: today obviously, and the eighteen hundreds when this occurred, but
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: it's still as you mentioned, set telegraph wires, it limited
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: our ability to communicate as best we could back then.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: So and that imagine that happening today.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Bingo, you're literally making my point. Imagine today, whether it's
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: the banking system that's all digital and all tech based,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: the power grid, everything that you're doing on a daily basis. Right,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: you mentioned it's hard to get away from ten. And
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: that's my point. I'm not against this stuff, right, I've
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: made a whole career out of it. My issue is
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: we are adding this stuff into our society at an
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: increasingly rapid pace with little to no thought about what
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: happens when it breaks, whether it's a solar storm like
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: the Carrington event, again well documented. I encourage people to
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: go look this up for themselves. And this is a
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: scenario where again, what are you gonna do about the sun?
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Sun's gonna do what the Sun's gonna do, right, whether
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: it's an EMP attack with low grade nuclear weapons that
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: creat an electromagnetic pulse that potentially knocks this stuff out,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: also well documented. I'm not coming up with this stuff
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: in my fever dreams at night. Carry Jeff. There are
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: people much smarter than me, concerned about national security, concerned
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: about critical infrastructure, who have been warning about this stuff
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: for a long time and talking about not let's not
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: have technology, because that's not my point. My point is
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: let's slow down and let's build technology that is robust
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: and resilient and can withstand these kinds of things so
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: that if and when when were to happen, whether it's
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: an adversarnation state or the Sun just decides to get cranky,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: our entire society doesn't suddenly get I shut off.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: I hate it.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: When the sun gets cranky. Before Joe Strecker gets cranky,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: he's telling us to break. When we come back, I
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: want to talk about flock cameras, and I want to
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: talk about surveillance pricing, which I didn't even know about.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: We're talking with Dave Hatter on a Friday tech talk
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: segment on fifty.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: Five KOC the talk station, and.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I mentioned before the break Dave flock cameras and surveillance pricing,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: surveillance pricing. But also I just saw this headline in
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: this Toughew cent Sinister in car spy tech that can
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: kill your engine will be mandatory next year under a
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Biden policy, sparking major privacy fears. But yeah, I don't
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: understand this, and I don't understand why it can't be
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: reversed under President Trump.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I agree with you. Obviously, anything that was done
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: by an executive order could be undone by an executive order.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Now I don't know in that particular case of that.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I think that was legislation passed by Congress, because if
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I recall correctly, Thomas Massey actually was one of the
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: people that was against it. But I would just say
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: that scared Jeff whether Congress passes a law that says
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: that your car can be remotely disabled and let's say
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: like a chase with the police or whatever. Yeah, this
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: concept is not new, and it goes back to what
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I was sending the last segment. Anything that is quote
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: smart unquote has software in it that's what makes it smart,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: and then it generally connects to the internet. Somehows right,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: anything that is smart. There's a guy named Miko Opponent.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: He's a well known cybersecurity expert, wrote a book called
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: If It's Smart, It's Vulnerable. And I've got a blog
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: on my substack all about the Internet of things and
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: why this is a problem. Again, I covered a lot
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: of it in the last segment. But if you have
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: software in something, right, that software can have vulnerabilities in it,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: not on purpose, just simply because human beings made it,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: or there can be purposeful vulnerabilities. And as we rely
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: on electronics to make things work, you know your seventy
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: eight dollge power wagon just had a carburetor and probably
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: no computer at all. Right, now your car is a
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: rolling computer full of computers and sensors tracking your every move.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I encourage all your listeners go look up Mozilla, the
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: people that make the Firefox web browser, and Mozilla privacy
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: not included. It's helpful for any of this IoT stuff
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: as it relates to privacy. But they did a big
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: expose a couple of years ago on new cars and
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: how they are surveilling you, and you would not even
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: imagine who are they given that information to? You? Are
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: they giving it to your insurance company? But back to
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: your point, you know, if the car is electronic, and
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: back to my earlier point about the Carrington event or EMP,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: a strong electromagnetic pulse will burn out the electronics. So
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: whether it's a cop could pull up and potentially send
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a signal that disables your car, or they hit your
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: vehicle with an EMP gun or a solar flare, or
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: bad software. As our vehicles become basically rolling computers. Like
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: you said in the first segment, this is all very
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: doable and as you might guess, I have a lot
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: of concerns about this. But it's not just your car, Gary, Jeff,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: It's anything that has technology like this in it and
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: relies on chips. But I'll go a step further. Have
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: you are you familiar with the idea of right to
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: repair and Digital Rights and Management Act or milan em ACT.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit. You and I discussed it in.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: The past, so you know, this just gets into the
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: idea that you buy a new car or anything new
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: tractor from John Deere. They've gotten a lot of grief
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: over there. Well, who really owns it? You know, it's
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: a mechanical device of some sort, But now that it's
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: full of software, that software is someone else's intellectual property,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: and they'll do things like, oh, hey, those heated seats, Yeah,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: you can't really use those unless you want to pay
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: a subscription fee. We'll give you the first month free,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: but we're going to remotely disable your heated seat and
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: your heated steering wheel unless you pay a subscription or worse, well, yeah,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: you know, you don't really own that car that the
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: CEO Ford was just recently talking about the idea of
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: right to repair. Yeah, you know, you really shouldn't work
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: on your own car. It's too complicated for you now.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And yeah, we're like John Deere. And again I don't
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: remember all the specifics of this, but I believe they've
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: been sued several times because people buy these very expensive
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: tractors and then they want to work on them themselves,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: and they're like, yeah, sorry, you can't do that because
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: that's our intellectual property. And you can't repair that expensive
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: tractor that you think you own. And I'm not picking
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: on John Deere specifically, or Ford or anyone. I'm saying
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: that as we add technology into devices. You know, I'm
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: old enough like you, Garret Je. Have to remember when
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: you bought a toaster, you put toast in it. You
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: push the thing down and heated up. It made toast.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: It didn't need to connect to the internet. It didn't
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: need to report you to your insurance company. It didn't
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: need to have a subscription fee to let you make
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: dark toast the way you like it versus well, you
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: can only use light toast and make light toast unless
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: you pay the subscription fee. You know. Oh your coffee maker. Yeah, sorry,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: you can only get six cups out of it unless
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: you pay the subscription fee. Oh wait, my whole business
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: was hacked and burned down because someone hacked the smart
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: coffee maker in my office, got to my servers and
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: encrypted all my data and I'm out of business. I
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: know this stuff sounds far fetched people, and I know
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: it's hard to connect the dots for people.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: It's dame.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: It's all just as horrifying as the thought that people
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: want the government to control every aspect of your life.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: That's that's just as bad. If the software is controlling
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: every element of your life and what you can do
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: and what you can't do.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, and software software has bugs, it can be hacked. Yeah,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: So it's not just the control, it's the risk of
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: this stuff is creating and again the focus on it,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: the people making it is wrong for you as a consumer,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: and that's my real issue.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: At six forty eight, we're talking with Dave Hadter. One
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: more segment to go on Friday Tech Talk. As we
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: continue on fifty five KRC, the talk station.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: July fourth, twenty twenty six, the two hundred.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And fifth o'clock here, very little time, two minutes on
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: flock cameras.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Why should we be concerned?
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Well, let me just give you one headline, not a
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: one off. More Colorado stop by police after data errors
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: triggered flock alerts. A seventy six year old grandmother is
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: among the Colorado ons repeatedly pulled over after data errors
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: triggered inaccurate flock cameras. So this fits into the same
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: bucket you mentioned the surveillance pricing. We've been talking about
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: IoT problems with these things. Who in your listening audience
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: has not used software that did not work correctly or
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: that had bad data that caused it to work in correctly.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: You know there are documented examples. I'm not making this
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: stuff up. And again from the same article, if you've
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: got an O or a zero on your Colorado license plate,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: good luck out there. You might be a suspect and
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: not even know it. There's another story Kyle Dallisman, a
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: driver who kept getting pulled over after flock cameras alerted
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: police to a driver where a warrant was in the area.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: He didn't have a warrant, but his plate wrongly entered
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: a hotless database used by flock cameras and he couldn't
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: get off the list. And then they have other people
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: experiencing similar problems. Yeah, I'm not a fan of this stuff.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: We do not have them in Fort Wright and won't
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: have them in Fort Right as long as I'm involved.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I'm against the Orwellians surveillance state we're building, not only
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: because I'm against it in principle, but because this stuff
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: is immature. It doesn't work right. Here's an example of it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: It's full of software. The software can be hacked. We've
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: talked about all these different things again, you know, Gary, Jeff,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I'm a technology guy. I'm not against this stuff per se.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I'm against the way it's being implemented. I'm against the
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: speed with which it's being done. I'm against the fact
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: that it's not focused on resilience and robustness. SISA, the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, just came out recently warning
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: that you can expect adversarial nations like China, Russia, Iran
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: to knock out our infrastructure thanks to all of this
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: technology now, and not to stop thinking about defending it,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: but to focus on resilience or what are you going
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: to do when it goes down?
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Coming from me, coming up on our two hundred and
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary as a country, I harkened back to one
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: of the founders who said, those who sacrifice liberty for
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: security will have neither. It's as old as America, this
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: idea that you're just talking about there, surveillance pricing. Maryland
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: passed a law banning this and grocery stores and other places,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and just a real brief description of what surveillance pricing is.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Well, this is all interconnected, Garry Jeff. There's so much
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: information being collected about you now, from the apps on
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: your phone, from your car, from your computer, from everything
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: that you do online, that they're able to say, okay,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: it's entirely possible. You know, dynamic pricing has been around
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: for a while. You live in a different zip code
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: than me. Your zip code appears to be more affluent
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: than buying, so you get a different price than me. Well,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: now they're taking it to the next step surveillance pricing,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: where because they're able to surveil you at such a
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: granular double of detail now by your data from all
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: these different places, they know that you are more capable
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: of paying more than me, not just because of your
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: zip code. They know that you've expressed an interest in
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: this thing before, you make this much money at your job,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: You've bought something like this before, so you're more likely
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: to pay more than I would, so you get a
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: different price. And if you think about it, as we
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: move into an era of things like digital price tags
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: and stores, you walk into your local supermarket and now
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: instead of somebody with a price gun going around it's
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: all digital, literally based on you walk them through the
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: door with your phone. They can identify you and say, oh,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: it's Gary Jeff. He'll spend five dollars more for this
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: pound of coffee because he's a high roller versus you know,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: old Doomsday Dave over there, who's washing out the aluminum
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: folder we use again. So that's what surveillance pricing is about,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: and all of this technology is leading us there. I'm
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: glad Maryland bandit.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I feel better about that because I am notoriously cheap