Latest / OneLegUpAlex Media / OneLegUpAlex Adapts with Disabled-led indie studio Ash Born Interactive and Co-Founder Joel Heath 1-22-26

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OneLegUpAlex Adapts with Disabled-led indie studio Ash Born Interactive and Co-Founder Joel Heath 1-22-26 · OneLegUpAlex Media

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's Alex Garrett. One Leg Up Alex and we
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: are in twenty twenty six, which means one Lug Up
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Alex in twenty twenty six. Tune in. We've just published
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: over fifteen hundred episodes in twelve years, with more TOICOM
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: thanks to you out there listening. One Leg Up Alex
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. All right, well, I'm wearing on
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the One Leg Up Network my dad's bears this week
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: because this is birthday week and he was one of
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: the first people to always teach me how to always adapt.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: And I have right now someone who's also been adapting
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: in his own way in his own world. Joel Keith
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: is on my line right now, and you are releasing
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: a gaming you know, a game called Demon Hunter's Guide
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: to Passing Finals. You're an indie game studio, meaning you
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: create games out of your home studio and as part
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: of Ashborn Interactive and only that you are proud to
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: say that you are a disabled creator who grew up
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: in unfortunately an abusive environment. But yet yet you have
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: overcame all of that and has adapted to make this
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: whole studio. Congratulations on adapting from that environment into this
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: creative space.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: You tell about Ashbourne Interactive, what is that and tell
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: us your story.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Well, Ashbourne Interactive, it's basically plays on the idea of
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the phoenix being reborn from its ashes, much like we
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: were reborn from our disabilities, or other people could be
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: reborn from their failures if they just get up and
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: push on forward. Like you said, like I was born
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: in an unfortunate was I lived in an unfortunate circumstance.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I was the middle of ten kids. My mom had
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: nine favorites, and since for passing a few years ago,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: I've been able to do nothing but heal. And it
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: was only thanks to my wife, my amazing wife who's
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: also my business partner. The game that's sort of an
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: easy kuy without actually being taken to another world, and
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: it's about a young man who wants to become a
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: demon hunter from the most prestigious demon hunting school in
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: the land, where his parents actually went. And his whole
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: mission is to learn to be a great demon hunter
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: to avenge his parents who were killed a few years earlier.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Almot like Batman in a sense right, because he had
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: that tragedy outside the outside the theater where his parents
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: get shot and all of a sudden becomes Batman and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: tries to do that same But for all of Gothman,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: it sounds like you got that theme going on there.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I hadn't. I hadn't thought of that.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I'm a big geeky, but I have to say, I'm
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: not in the gaming space per se. So how did
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: you get into this? I mean it's a very popular space, obviously,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: there are so many gamers, adult gamers, kay gamers. How
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: did you get into the space.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I've been experimenting with various RPG engines since RPG
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Maker three on the PS two. I've always been a
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: creative and it's probably the only thing, the only positive
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: thing my mom ever encouraged my creativity, and I transitioned
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: over from novels and scripts to gaming because, like gaming,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: gaming was one of the few escapes for me to
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: sort of push everything aside and focus on one thing.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: It was like, I can't not play without mods or
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: cheat codes. But I don't play to challenge myself. I
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: played to distract myself and escape from the horrors of
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: thirty years of gaslighting.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe we'll get into that a little bit. But as
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: someone who wants to be known they're disabled. Why is
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: that identity important to you? Is disability gaming isn't not
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: accessible enough for the disability world? Are you trying to
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: make it more accessible for kids disabilities to be a gamer?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I want people to know about the disability so
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: that we can connect, we can relate, and we can
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: see that just because I have this disability, it doesn't
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: mean I can't do something.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: And what is it? If I may ask what what?
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: What is it that you you have?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: It's actually there's actually a few things. There was PTSD,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: there's autism, there's the abuse I grew up with, and
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: occasionally I don't know if I don't know really it
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: hasn't been diagnosed. But something often what happens is my
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: consciousness will shut down and my subconsciousness will take over.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I completed complex tasks while in this state. I've heard
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: it called a fugue state or an associated fugue.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I have to ask, have you been driven a car
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: in the state? Is that one of the comcake tasks?
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Have you driven in the state?
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Once yes, that's very interesting, And how did that all?
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Did you? Did you did you just zone in? Was
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: it a focus thing? Or what was that?
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I remember I was driving off to an appointment
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: with somebody who was helping me find a job because
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I'd never been able to do that on my own.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: But while I was driving there, Yeah, I was driving
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: there and I don't know what happened, but I came
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: around and I was in her office just sort of
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: sitting and she's like, Okay, that was kind of weird,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: because I mean she said I was sweating and just
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: kind of monotone.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I want to say, disassocialately, do you think the disissosative
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: happened because of your upbringing? I mean, do you feel
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: like you had to disassociate early on? Is that where
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: that comes from? I mean, I want to the making
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: of you, because you've actually used gaming to rise above
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: all that, it seems like, yeah, well.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: The dissociation I haven't to this extent. It started after
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: my mom passed, and I think that my therapist and
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I determined that because the main source of toxicity in
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: my life my mother, my siblings, my father, they're gone.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Most of them are gone. They just don't talk to
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: me more so that way, I don't have that constant
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  Speaker 2: source of toxicity, so I can start to heal, and
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: now that I've started to heal, I'm able to address
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: these things process them. And that's kind of I want
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: to say, it feels like it's getting worse, but in reality,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: it's likely getting a lot better.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Well, I know you don't want to tell about your
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: personal story. I want to focus on the gaming, but
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious to know you as a person because
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: people hearing your story could say, well, hey, am I
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: be going through something? But I can also adapt. Look
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: at Joel and Christine, your wife. By the way, the
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: duo you guys have at Ashbourn Interactive. Very cool that
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: you are teaming up the gaming side of it, though,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: when did you get into it and did you think
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a you would be ever creating this and having a
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: studio and also were you using games to you know,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: disassociate from the environment to individuate yourself and escape Almost.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I got into it shortly after my mom's passing,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: really like really got into it shortly after my mouth's passing,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: and I developed I developed a few program a few
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: projects just to sort of feel my way through it.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: As part of the adaptation, I do use some artificial intelligence,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: but I view it more as a disability assist rather
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: than just something taking over for me and doing all
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: the work, and so I don't have to have any creativity. Now,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: creativity is essential, it's the human creativity is essential.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like in today's world, especially disabled creatives
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: are not highlighted up. She would be highlighting it more,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: highlighting them more.
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  Speaker 2: I think everybody deserves a fair chance. I don't want
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: to say that disabled creators should be elevated above other people.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: It's more of the case, case by case basis, Like, uh, me,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I've got four of the greatest kids in the universe.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I look at my life the way it is, and
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I see myself as being genuinely, genuinely happy.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Because down days you feel like, you know, it sounds
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: like you're a pretty upbeak guy. So how did you
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: get out of that toxicity into your own happiness? I
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: guess is my next question?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Well, my mom passed away. My father I haven't heard
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: from him. He used to pop up for three or
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: four days every you know, twice a decade, So sometimes
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: the garbage just takes itself out.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Is it tough for you to go public about your
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: family or is it sort of natural, just sort of
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: processing through interviews and all that.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Well, like I do have I do, I am somewhat
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: relatively self conscious, So I don't want people to think
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: that I'm just trying to do this for pity. But
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I want people to know my story because other people
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: have a similar story, and I want them to see
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: that there's a way out, there's.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: A way to adapt, and by following your footsteps, seems
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: like people can can really adapt. So you have, and
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: you've been able to adapt the gaming world to your
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you know, your comfortability, right, So you've sort of brought
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: the gaming world to you. It seems like, yeah, and
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: how does that feel to have that and only have
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: that powerful, harness it and make it available for everybody else?
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm actually I've only just begun with that. Ashbourne
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Interactive is that is eventually going to see a nonprofit
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: that helps people with significant barriers to employment traditional employment
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: and get them into get them some self employment or
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: sustainable passive income. We're calling it the Dream Pathway Project.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: And as you get further on with that, I'd love
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: to have be you on because look, we need more
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: entrepreneurial spirit. I feel like the idea of rolling up
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: our sleeves is going by the wayside because everbody's on
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: their phone and nobody wants to put in the grunt work.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Here you are putting in the grunt work, and I
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: think you're inspiring others to do the same. I hope
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: so well, based on this project, sounds like that's what
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: one of the goals is. Yeah, you got in the
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: game in because of the employment. What was that a
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: journey like? I mean, obviously people of all kinds are
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: having trouble finding a job right now. Was it harsh
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: for you though? Was it a little harsher? What was
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: it like?
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Well, up until about ten years ago, I could not
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: get a job without somebody else's doubting for me. And
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: most of all that was my younger brother, and he
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: just he was under the impression of I can do
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: what you should be able to as well. Unfortunately he
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: doesn't understand the concept of a false analogy fallacy, say Levine,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: It's just that's that's just the way things can be
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: in a in my situation.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: And the the adapt I want to hold it on
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: the adapting side. So and obviously demon hunters I think
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: of K pop demon Hunters. I don't know if you're
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: thinking of that too. When you made this.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Game, I hadn't heard of K Pop Demon Hunters until recently.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: By then, I've been developing Demon Hunter's Guide for about
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: a year year and a half.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, very cool and honestly and mixes some Harry Potter
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: in there. Tell us about that?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, the whole concept was the idea of
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: a school that teaches Hogwarts, teaches magic, Kai Academy of
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Supernatural Warfare teaches skills you need for demon hunting.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: And how did you form your characters? Were they based
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: on people in your life or were they based on
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: your what's in your mind?
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: How did you create the characters?
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Well, one character I had to be most fascinat Ren Haseki,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: the Ren Jusek. He was actually a blend of Draco
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Malfoy and Hermione Granger, okay if they were in Ravenclaw.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: The main character, Recou was kind of was to a
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: point based on me, but he applied himself a lot
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: more than he a lot more than I did before,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: about as much as I am now though, And he's
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: he's he's got a pretty good head on his shoulders.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And what's the range for this?
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Kids? Young adults. What what's the range.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Kids, young adults, pretty much anybody who's an anime fan,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: because that's kind of the that's the angle. I was
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: telling the story from MHM and had.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: You in the anime? Is that recent or is that
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: something you've always been.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Passionate originally with Pokemon and yu gi oh. Okay, sure,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I expanded. I got exposed to you you haka show,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I got exposed to a shield hero with spy family.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at the notes and I do want to
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: get into this part because you want to actually talk
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: about how we can create an accessibly minded design without
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: compromising depths. How do we do that? I mean, I
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: feel like some games are just made for the average
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: kid or the average adult. Do you find that and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: then maybe this is what's inspiring you to make it
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: more accessible to people.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Well, sometimes you got to base the product on the audience,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: and sometimes you've got to find the audience for your product.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: And did you do like a polling of like, hey,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: if I were to make a game, what would make
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you play it? Or what did you do any polling
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: before you started this?
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah? A polling of one me? Okay, no, I don't
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: have a lot of friends. My mom really didn't let
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: me have a lot of friends chase off a number
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: of them, and also being on the spectrum social skills
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: are let's just say, I'm I'm surprised that we've been
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: able to converse as we have.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just able to talk to whenever I
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: want to talk.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: To you about that skill I was.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I was very intrigued because the way it was pictures
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: disabled led studio. Look, we need more of more creators
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: out there, obviously, just believe or not, but yes, people
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: disability should be able to have that spotlight. And I think, hey,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: if Joel can start this, then maybe you can inspire
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: others to start their own kind of maybe not studio,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: but business. And that's the whole point is like, it's
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: not just a studio you've created, it's a whole business
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: you've created. And I think you should be very proud
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I definitely am proud of it. I mean,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: especially a lot of a lot of the mechanics for
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: my game mhm, I borrowed from other other ips, like
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: we have shiny poke its shiny monsters in my game now,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: and that was probably one of the easier easier at
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: mechanics to blend it to add in, but it was
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: a lot more involved.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Do you want ask for interactive to get on that
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: mainstream path?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: How big do you want this studio to get?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I want to be big enough that I don't have
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: to ask for help to get my kids Christmas. I
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: want to be big enough that I don't have to
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: that I don't have an anxiety attack and just paying
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: for groceries, thinking am I going to be able to
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: afford this? Or is my car going to get rejected?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Have you have you forgone working on a day to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: day and just been focused on the studio. Is that
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: what's been happening?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Well, because because I'm retired, essentially retired on disability prior
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: to this, I've had all the time in the world,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: like I send my kids off to school and I
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: get done when I can. I mean, the monster assets
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: we're using are completely AI generated except for a few
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: and I've noticed that with that, I've actually been able
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: to produce a lot more a lot quickly, a lot
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: more quick I can speak, I promise.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Well, let me asking this because I noticed you have
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: a kickstarter going on as well. Yes, I'm very nervous
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to ask people to donate to any cost because I'm
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: just like, it's not about the money, it's about you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: keeping the work going, but with your social skills. And
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: then do you find yourself nervous to reach out like
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: that or even you know, maybe talk to investors about
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: getting this studio funded? Like is that a nerve for you?
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Is that unnerrving for you to do.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Well? Given the given the track record of not succeeding.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: It's it's it's almost like I expect to either be
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: told no or just to just left on red for
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: years on end.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: And then you get that one yes, and as anybody
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: stepped up and said, yes, we will support the studio.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sitting at about seven hundred and sixty dollars
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: out of eight thousand on my Kickstarter and the kickstarter's
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: got like forty eight forty hours forty eight hours left.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Oh wow. But I don't just I don't just pick
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: one avenue and try it. I pick I shotgun it
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: every avenue I can hit, I hit it. I throw that.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: It's like throw the play a spaghetti against the wall.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: See what six?
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: All right? So it's label it's able to lead in
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: the studio. But I get the few telling you don't
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: want to be defined by because that's the whole point,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: that we don't want to be defined by our disability,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: right So so besides that and not pity, why should
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: people invest in this? I mean what what what can
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: people get out of it if they pitch in, Like,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: how can you expand the studio if people were to
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: invest in it?
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Well, first, I just want to say I don't I
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: don't know. I'm not saying I don't want to be
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: defined by my disability, but I wanted to be defined
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: less by the mistakes of my past. And second, what
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: they're getting is they're getting a story that they can
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: relate to connect with. We're getting something unique and and.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Could you see yourself pitching it this stuff out of
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: like a comic conner, a gaming convention down the room?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Oh definitely. I mean budget would be a bit slim,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: but I could take it to fan X in September.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: That should be a goal right there. To take it
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: to out in the public, get it out there, watch it,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: have consoles, get people playing it.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: You know. The only trouble is actually getting the money
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: to rent the table. But yeah, I've got a working demo.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: You can actually find it on itch dot io or
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: just by googling Demon Hunter's Guide. My social media, they've
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: they've got I've got links to the demo links. I
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: think I've got to I think I've got a link
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: to the website. I don't know. I'll have to check
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: check to be sure.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: It almost sounds like you felt like you were living
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: under your family's shadow and now it's your time to shine.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Is that what we're going with here?
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Is I like to yeah, it is my time to shine.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: And the autism, you know, I I mean, I couldn't
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: really tell. I feel like you're very vocal, You're very social,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: but as a business person, that's got to be a
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: challenge because you've got to also talk about this every day.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my autism. Like I've got two, I've
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: got three other I've got three boys, three boys and
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: a daughter. Two of my boys have been confirmed on
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: the autism spectrum, and it's obvious from how they act.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: My issue, my my shortcoming with autism is I have
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: a hard time processing. You know, I can't read people.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I read people like most people read cling on.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: So it's almost it's not on the abity. You just
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: can't read them and you want you sort of want
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: to need people to tell them their intentions right up front.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: In other words, yeah, that's that's in a nutshell.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I definitely want to keep supporting this and uh
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: and and share your link out because I believe you're
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: you're doing something and we got to keep highlighting those
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: that are working to overcome their obstacles. Yes, but also
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: contribute to society. I mean, what you're doing is a contribution,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: and I think you can inspire disabled kids to start
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: gaming without feeling left out. I feel like there's a
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: sector that feels left out. Do you feel that you're
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: trying to reach out to those people?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean everybody can adapt, but nobody adapts in
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: the same No two people adapt in the same way.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: That's a beautiful thing about humanity is that that's the
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: kind of diversity that I think is really important because
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: we're so different, but we're also also in a lot
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: of ways the same.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Tell us the incentive within the game, like how many
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: levels are there, and also what makes it addicting, almost
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: like a page turner, but video game lines, what makes
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: you want to keep playing?
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Well, Demon Hunche's guide is a is an RPG in
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: the vein of secretive manner. The thing that people are
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: going to I think people are gonna be drawn to
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: is a lot of the nostalgia from nods to various
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: different ip like I've got I've gotta one of the
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: skills I've actually developed. It's similar to curse from well
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the older Pokemon main series games, where you sacrifice half
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: of your health and over the course of five or
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: six turns, the target loses health until it's all gone.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I'm looking here. You actually were featured by Independent Mail.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: That's a really big deal that you guys were featured
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the news. What was that like to get some media
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: coverage on this?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Most of the coverage we've got on this has been
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: through podcasters like yourself. There have been a few online articles.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know if anybody's been. It's been up use
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: their media, but I wouldn't say no.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: The well the Independent Male picked up on it. I
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: don't know if you know about that.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Really, I didn't hear about that.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at it now. The Independent Male. Uh says
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Family runs to Indie Studio blends story strategy and intentional
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: design in upcoming debut title, So, and I see you're
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: out of Utah. That's pretty cool too. I wonder about
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the dating and the relationship aspect, because it sounds like
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Christine's been your rock through the whole time. What your
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: rock like she's she's Yeah. So having that person in
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: your life not only to love on and to be with,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: but also to accept you for who you are? Did
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you find that tough to find growing up? And and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: and did Christine change you in different ways that no
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: one else could? If that makes sense?
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I there were there were some challenges in There were
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: some challenges in dating because like most of the stories
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: I could tell you are pretty much identical. Like there
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: was this one There's this one girl I was friends with,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: but I liked her, wanted to go on a date
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: with her. We'd talk a lot, but I asked her
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: out once and the conversation just died. About a year
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: and a half later, she finds out I'm engaged, and
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: hey start talking again. You know what? And my wife,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: she I truly believe God put us on this earth
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: to find each other. She's accepted warts and all. And
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: there were a lot of figurative warts, and we've been
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: through things that were designed to tear us apart. And
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I love her now more than a whole lot more
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: than I did yesterday, but not as much as tomorrow.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: To borrow from an older song.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: How did she help you? That's beautiful, by the way,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: How did she help you encourage to build the studio,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: to make the studio happen?
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she had any direct encouragement, but
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: it's more. I love her. I want to do more
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: for her than a monthly disability check, and I want
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: more of life. I want to be able to do
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: more for my kids and be the dad I didn't have.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: And because employers, I wasn't getting a lot of interviews.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: So I turned to myself, went out form BLLC, got
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: the business license. I did it because I love her
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: and I want better for her, and I got to
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: work hard to be worthy of her.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Well, she sounds like she's very lucky, and you're very lucky.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Look at that. I mean, you two have found each
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: other and raised an amazing family. And are your kids gamers?
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Are they in the gaming gene now or what?
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: My three boys, it's like my daughter kind of is
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: my son Joshua. He'll play games with his with his
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: brother Spencer, who is the gamer of the four, and
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: then Lucas he likes he likes Mario Maker two on
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the switch. He likes YouTube videos and he likes to
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: watch the video in its reflection.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: All right, here, here's a good question for you, because
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: obviously your dad and parents today are struggling with screen
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: time for their kids. So here you are building this
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: website in this studio rather and this game screen time galore.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm sorry, were like, all right, kids,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: you gotta put the phone away. We gotta, you know,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: have family time. We gotta you know. I'm sure you're
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: trying and strike that balance as you're on the screen
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: building a gate.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a difference between playing games and
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: watching videos and working. Plus, I mean, we give screen
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: time as it's needed. Oftentimes we try to get the
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: kids out to the park, out outside as often as possible,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: so we try to keep it balance.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: That's that's really good. And do you find well, even
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: parents who are disabled, do you have a message for
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: them that you know, Yes, you might have these challenges,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: but you can be an amazing, kick ass parent too.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely, the only thing stopping us is our is
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: our self and our self doubt.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like you're also transcending here. Like
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: what I mean is you're taking your disabled community right
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: transcending into the gaming world through this studio. What's it
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: like to reach out to anybody people and say, yes,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I belong in this space just like you.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Well, a lot a lot of people have a lot
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: of people have accepted me. But it's just further proves
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: that just because you're disabled, it doesn't mean anything.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: And on that end, why should people take a chance
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: on the studio? I think you mentioned earlier, but give it,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: drive it home one more time, and then I know
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you gotta get to your family duties. But I love
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: the time we've had so far on the one Leg
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Up network. So why invest in this Clasborn Interactive.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: By investing, you're actually you're helping the disabled community to
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: become more productive. You're helping a father provide for his
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: kids and for his wife and build something that improves lives.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: And it gives kids an escape from their realities too.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I think, so that would be great. Well. Joel heath
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Or seatocalba as the Zoom says, thanks so much for joining.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I love to have back on as this project unfolds, well,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I'm very happy to be here and again thank you
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: e Einging one leg up on gaming and the Geber community.