Latest / Putting Is Fun / You Can Become a Great Putter Without Ever Playing Golf | Ep. 6

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You Can Become a Great Putter Without Ever Playing Golf | Ep. 6 · Putting Is Fun

• speaker-1: For an Arnold Palmer Blade or classic John Rooter, you can find your center, be a straight shooter. Train yourself to respect the three-footer. Or bring out your Scotty or that new fango lab. Your time rollin' putts will surely be fair. Putt putt butt, it's just like it seems. We can drift away and chill in a dream. Putt with your rose, go soak up the sun-free vitamin D is good for everyone. I'm just spitting facts. Putting is fun. speaker-0: Yes, it is, folks. Brian Manzella and John Ortega with your favorite putting show. Maybe your favorite golf podcast altogether by now. I think we're maybe episode six, something like that. But either way, ⁓ wherever we are, we're very happy to be with you today. How is the weather in Southern California, Mr. Ortega? speaker-1: ⁓ it's gonna be seventy-four, seventy-two to seventy-four, seventy-five sometimes. Every once in a while we'll get a hundred, but that's super rare. But we're we're ⁓ right in the middle of real, real good. So like yesterday a kid from China was with me and he goes, Man, your weather's so good here. I'm like, Yep, that's why people pay over a million dollars for an apartment or a speaker-0: There has to be some reasoning. I mean it's not because it's easy, right? I mean if you wanted to build a teaching building on that driving range on the back, the the permitting must be hilarious, right? I mean it's not even worth doing. speaker-1: I I'd build it and just get in trouble. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a lady downstairs that's building some kind of muffin shop with coffee and she's been in permit getting or whatever you want to call it the process for like over six months. And she doesn't anticipate it, she'll get it done anytime soon. But it's it's it's ⁓ a lot of what do you call that? ⁓ red red tape? A lot of red tape. Red tape. speaker-0: Yeah. Red tape. So for today's episode here, this very important episode to me is we're gonna talk about becoming a putter. So there are two kinds of people that need to become a putter. People who've maybe never putted or went to putt-putt four times in their life and can't remember which way they even put their hands on the club, right? That those kind of people. Real beginners. And then They're gonna be people that I think need to press reset and pretend to be beginners and start over. So speaker-1: I had one I had one of those yesterday. There you go. Big time. speaker-0: It's it's a thing, folks. It's it's like ⁓ you know the great reset that that the ⁓ progressive people want to do. It's a reset. It's a great reset. You're doing if you maybe been playing golf for 50 years and you decided, you know what, I'm just gonna start over. Famously, two musicians here on the show, Herb Alpert, the trumpet player, famous for the Tijuana brass, still playing at in his eighties. At least took a little time off of recording, you know, AM Records is he he's a you know, that's that's he's the A. He he he decided he was gonna kind of go back into recording and he took some trumpet lessons. Don't think he needed to take trumpet lessons, but you get it? He went through the whole thing. Nicholas, this this guy named Jack Nicholas, babes, Jack Nicholas famously would tell Jack Grout every year. Teach me how to play golf all over again. So the two kinds of people that we're talking to here today in this become a putter episode. Okay. Now, John, question number one for our putting expert. First thing you need is a putter. So let's assume this person is very new. My beautiful wife Lisa. She decides: you know what? I like the putting is fun podcast so much, especially the song. And the and the guy from Southern Cal, if if if she's you know, if if she's trying to be funny. ⁓ and she wants to learn to putt. So, okay. So the first thing she would do probably is come next door and go to this putter stand over here and pick a putter out and then we get it sized and gripped and all that stuff. But let's just assume somebody like Lisa wanted to start putting, right? And what would be what would be your recommendation? For the putter they select. speaker-1: It's great question. ⁓ depends on, you know, how how ambitious they are. If they're just gonna be recreational, I'd probably get something that would be I don't know, something with a line on it. We start with that, maybe a mallet in today's world. But, you know, if it was a young kid, I'd I'd put ⁓ in a bullseye or or an eighty eight ⁓ two or something like that. Or or speaker-0: Okay, so let's let's try. Well, okay, we got different categories, but we just we just ascertained. So let's assume this is a adult, not in the not in assisted living yet, you know, and then they have, you know, hey, assisted living's got putt putt at some of these places. speaker-1: Have some of those too. And of course I have a story about that. But we'll go with it later. Okay. speaker-0: Okay, so some random 40-year-old person decides they want to putt. They know that that at their local public course, they've inquired if they bring their own putter and their own golf balls, they can putt for free. There are places you can do that. City Park, right here in New Orleans. They want to call it Bayou Oaks. It's City Park. If you want to go putt right now and to practice putting green, they're not going to tell you anything. You're gonna be just fine. So maybe if you're wearing a bikini, probably they might tell you to cover up. But other than that, you you're slick. Guys, put your shirt on. So you could go in a t-shirt and shorts if you wanted to, I think. Maybe a lot of golf courses have some sort of dress code, collar, baloney, whatever that is. Right. Okay. So this person, they don't wanna spend a ton of money, but they're willing to spend a little money. They they're gonna spend a little money if they try any other hobby, rollerblading, you know, whatever. So what would you suggest this hypothetical 40 to six year sixty-year-old female, let's say, that just thinks, I don't know if I'm gonna like golf, but I kind of like the idea of putting. speaker-1: Sure. Well, you could go to Roger Dunn's the shop. speaker-0: Place like Roger Dunn. So you in Southern Cal, you have Roger Dunn's and we have Edwin Watts, and then you have PGA Tours, Superstores. Dicks are everywhere. Right. So go to a speaker-1: At the at the first two that you mentioned, Roger Dunns ⁓ Edwin Watts, they usually have a lot of used putters. And I saw this the other day. A couple young gals, they're, you know, probably in their thirties, so now they're young to me. ⁓ they wanted to try golf and wanted to get a putter. And this guy was showing them all the putters and they said, Hey, is d this one looks like this. It's, you know, it's supposed to help you in this way. This one kind of looks like this, it's supposed to help you in this way. Let's roll a few and see which one you think, you know, fits your fancy. And they did. And they eventually picked a putter. It's like, good, okay, you're started. So I think something like that would be appropriate. You know, if they're at Costa Mesa, we have a lot of, you know, clubs that were donated or somehow or another people lose. So we just go, hey, why try this one, try that one? Right. So there are options like that. But if you if you were gonna try to go for a specific type, I'd probably initially get something with a line and I'd probably get something that I don't know, at least an answer style putter. Not I probably wouldn't get like for an adult. a person like an eighty eight or two or a bullseye or anything that requires a whole lot of precision. So something, you know, semi MOI ish, helpful. Eve even an older zebra, if you had a ⁓ you know, Ram zebras, they're you know, they're they're pretty good. And you can find those on eBay for twenty bucks. So something of that variety, just something that helps you aim. Something that you could like you were talking about with Lisa, you cut it to her length and get a grip on it that's appropriately sized and go to town. And from there they can ⁓ speaker-0: would recommend basically going someplace getting a used putter spending maybe 50 maybe spending another 15 putting a grip on it and getting it cut or extended or whatever most of the time it's gonna be cut for whatever reason ⁓ putters are long i don't the devil can understand speaker-1: Thirty five, baby. That's the way they were. Yeah. speaker-0: Thirty five even if you're five, you know, four. And and Portly if you're if you're like right now. speaker-1: It's a belly putter. It becomes a belly putter. speaker-0: comes a belly putting. But anyway, so ⁓ i you know, in my in my experience, the the best I ever started anybody in putting were both of the Nunes brothers when they started playing golf. And I said, Okay, here's the thing now. We're gonna haven't given them a golf lesson yet of any kind. But they're gonna go play. They had some borrowed clubs and they whacked it around and shot a million and they had fun and they okay, we're gonna We're gonna get into it. First thing you need is a putter. So we walked into the Henry Thomas golf shop, and I was working there at the time, and we got a base straight off the rack, Maganese bronze, brand new, never been laid eyes on by human human touched by human hands. Ping answer maganese bronze putter. speaker-1: Year seventy four. speaker-0: We're talking about eighty, eighty-one, eighty-two, somewhere in there. Right. So we're we're gonna get to the other stuff. I don't wanna like jump ahead just because we're giving a a Todd and Mark Nunes putting story. But I thought the last thing in the world they need is a is a used putter, although they're all used putters are not alike. But I will say this. Answer type putters, I'm I'm saying this to you folks that are watching andor listening. This is the the nothing to John. He's gonna go, well, okay, yeah. But answer style putters will bend pretty damn easy. The necks where the shaft attaches to the head, you know, is a little plumber's neck, right? Is what I think the is the correct terminology that That Karsten Solheim figured out to help him balance that putter when he was designing it. You can't just bang it on the ground or fling it in your bag. They will bend and all of a sudden you'll have this strange hook-faced answer putter. Do you think am I crazy, John? Or if you walked in Roger Dunn's, I just I literally went to Edwin Watts and rolled a couple putts today. Like on my way here to record. My mom's ⁓ retirement home is is nearby. And sometimes I'll stop and talk talk shop. I I I I'm a little scared of like used answers. Am I crazy? speaker-1: Depends. I mean, if you if you have a good enough eye, you can look and see if they're fairly straight. And if they're not, you can straighten them out. It's not a big deal. Like you said, they're easy to bend. And you get to a good loft and line and you kind of tweak it around. I I did that yesterday for the guy I was talking about that was a reset guy. He had a ⁓ Scotty Cameron, answer sal putter. And he goes, Man, this thing looks a little hooked. And I'm Well, can let me look and he goes, I said, Looks like it has a lot of loft. So to a lot of people, that looks hooked. But to me, that looks good because I pushed my hands forward. But let's go check it out. So I I have this, I forget what the name of the machine is. It's not a Mitchell. I have a Mitchell at the golf course. And put it on the the machine and it was a five degree. Yeah. Yeah. I ⁓ I'll think of the name of it. It's a blue, blue ⁓ machine, whatever I for I forget what the name of it is. But it was definitely had increased the loft. And so he said he's been kind to the putter, but maybe his son wasn't. His son was a guy who was a aspiring ⁓ pro, dure pro. He played at UCLA. And I'm like, okay, that thing found some airtime. Like that there's there the the after I measured it, the the bet the neck was slightly bent. It wasn't like obviously bent. Body bed I bent it back to like three because this guy had a lot of adloft and looked good. He he liked it, it lined up better, you know, every everything definitely ⁓ returned to a a better place for him. So I I wouldn't be too afraid of it, but unless unless you don't have ⁓ access to bending equipment or somebody that can bend it for you. But I I'm I wouldn't be ⁓ swayed by that or discouraged to to buy a used answer. I just make sure that ⁓ the specs were right. speaker-0: So I went on the internet, this thing, but you maybe listen to us to right now, listening to us two on, and a brand new ping answer putters two hundred and nineteen dollars. Seems seems like speaker-1: Was that a milled one though? Well it's or or just the new the new whatever the new f new speaker-0: The ping answer to putter, right-handed dick sporting goods. You know, just giving folks that are listening some sort of like, I just I'll go buy a new one, you know. No, I don't think it's particularly got got the ⁓ the classic ping grip on it. I'm I'm trying to get look for a dis like the tamp, like okay, here's what it says: product information. Like the timeless answer, heel toe waiting, blah, blah, blah. Shallowed milled face. I think it's milled face, not a whole milled butter. You know, like the PLD pings, but $219. But if you've got the 219 laying around, there you go. Right? You could just start with a ping. And you would you would definitely suggest a ping, not giving ping any, not throwing ping a a big, you know, ⁓ people who make speaker-1: I'll do it for the speaker-0: There's other people who make that putter, but I'm just trying to make a point. You walked into Dick Sporting Goods, you plop down 219 plus cash plus plus tax, cash or credit card, and you got it the right length. they're only probably gonna have two lengths there, but they do have a repair shop in most Dick Sporting Goods or any of these places like Roger Dunn, Worldwide Golf is the, the, the title holder, whatever you call it. the main company that has Roger Dunn and Edwin Watts underneath it. They'll they'll put a they'll they'll put another grip in size if I if you're short or really tall. And you know, it's it's not that difficult. But that there's a good place to start. But you would say line versus no line. speaker-1: Yes. I think it just gives people comfort. Now later, when they become like golfers or, you know, more skilled golfers and you know, they're more more than just casual, you know, they become avid, let's say. Then then it comes time where, okay, ⁓ let's see how you aim a putter without a line versus a line. Like I have a friend that played the nationwide tour. He he still likes a line, even though he realizes he doesn't aim it as well. So he came in my other lab, my small one. Sure. And he he he he tried it was like a answer style ⁓ tailor made, a rosa or something. I forget what they called it. It was a chiama. And actually, this is a a putter that they had made for Dave Stockman, had a little dot on the top, right? So he had a ping with a j big giant long line on it. It was a ⁓ a mallet. And he aimed that thing way worse than he aimed the one without, but he still liked the one with the line. So I think the the line gives people comfort. Later, if they're you know more. More intent on aiming it better, th you know, and th they might wanna just check to see which which kind of line. Like ⁓ somebody was telling me that went to the Tailor made, you know, ⁓ Kingdom the Kingdom the Kingdom, yeah, and talked to the putter guy there and you know, th they mess around with things and especially with the spider, Tailor Made Spider, which someday we gotta reveal that song. The Taylor made spider. ⁓ yeah. Which one do you you do you do you like? The the speaker-0: Rock and roll version. There's a rock rock version and a rap speaker-1: Yeah, well, I like the rock and roll myself. But a lot of people like the rap. But anyhow, they said sometimes a little tiny line at the top, ⁓ behind the ⁓ the putter face, but only like just a little teeny teen teensy one, maybe half inch, people line up better than one that goes all the way across the face. speaker-0: So at Edwin Watts today, I for the first time laid eyes on a tailor made spider with a plumber's neck like an answer and a little short, a little short line. And I went, hmm. You know, I never really thought that the reason they did that is that maybe they found s folks aimed it better. Okay, I'm not against it, but it should be noted that the two Nunez boys, the regular ping, it was the Maganese bronze, no line butter. So just Putting that out there. Okay. So now you've bought a putter, reasonable size. You went and go you went to Roger Dunn, Edwin Watts, BJ Tour Superstore, you plop down the 219, you got the putter. Now, what's the first thing you do? You buy a three-pack of balls, dozen, what do you do? What's the next thing you do? speaker-1: For sure you need golf balls. So I'd say get get a three pack of balls or you know, go to the used bin and buy a dozen of them. Whatever. Just get some balls. You know, usually, you know, you can you can ha get balls for fairly inexpensive, especially if you got buy the ones that are twenty dollars a dozen or five dollars for three. Or you could buy use ones that are maybe a dollar a piece, right? speaker-0: Would would it matter to you which balls? speaker-1: Because we think At that point it wouldn't. It just you just gotta have something to roll. So I I would I wouldn't be too picky about the speaker-0: Suggest okay, so again, that's fictitiously, they walk into one of these places that we've mentioned enough names already, and they've got their putter in their hand and they're ready to go pay, but they were told that they need some balls. Would you suggest a ball that has a line on the ball already? Or no? We're in the lessons all of a sudden now. speaker-1: I I I I would just get one with the lines and they don't have to use it, but if they want to use it, they it's there for ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, so there are there are balls on the market for people that don't know that have lines on them. There's a tailbade ball, I think, that has a line with another mut ⁓ a line that's like ⁓ I don't know, ⁓ as wide as if you just took a a marks a lot and just made a s straight line, like a line that that width, and then inside of a yellow stripe wider than any driving range ball stripe I've ever seen. And and and so I I I I'm with John. If you're gonna buy a I'd buy a dozen, but the hell buy a ball that has a line on it and just look at the ball and pick one out. Doesn't really matter. But I I think that because you'll have the option to use it. Yes. Can you buy the little plastic sleeves that come with a you know sharpie and draw your own lines? Sure. But You you bought a l ball. So now you have a dozen balls with lines on it. And a ping. Answer two twenty twenty six milled face, otherwise not milled putter. Correct Lilyn. Standard lie angle. What's next? speaker-1: Either go to the putting green or buy a putting mat, but I'd I'd just go to the putting green and you you might want to get into a group lesson or something like that where somebody can give you the the very basics, like maybe maybe it's a good idea to hold it like this or like this. You know, not speaker-0: So you would you would go ahead and take some sort of putting lesson. speaker-1: I would if they're serious, why not? Or look look or you could or you could look on YouTube if you're, you know, a a DIY guy or girl. You could look on YouTube. There's probably decent information out there. So i any of those things would suffice, I think. Yeah, I think I think you just need to get out and you know hit some putts, but it would it'd be help it'd be helpful if they had somebody watching them, giving them some feedback and just the very, very basics. You wouldn't have to go into okay, lock in your you know, your angles and move your arms and kind of speaker-0: Would you rather that their first putting with their new putter and their new balls be on a putting green or on a artificial turf putting green or on a putting mat? What would you prefer? speaker-1: Mm, great question 'cause I've never had that posed to me, but I would probably just stay potting green. So might why not be outside? You try and speaker-0: Trying to try to yeah, we we gotta be true to the song. Vitamin D is good for everyone. speaker-1: I mean, why why to go out where like you know, people come into my lab and they love it and when we do, you know, hitting in in the hitting bay, they they like, you know, the instant feedback or like the swing looks like that, so the ball went like that, all that, right? It's great. But, you know, at some point someone go, Hey, can we go outside? ⁓ you I I wanted to play golf because I wanted to be outside. You know, I I wanna be on the grass. I wanna I want to watch the grass fly, you know, I wanna experience that whole thing. So I think if you can get ⁓ out on a putting green, they're gonna experience the you know, that that The sun, you know, the grass, you know, being outdoors, being with other people, that part of golf, and I think that's really salient for for this whole thing. So how many speaker-0: balls would you take to the putting green your first crack at it? Three pack? speaker-1: I would. Yeah, I like I like that. I mean look some people go, ⁓ you only get one pot. And it's like, Well, yeah, I like but you when you go out to hit range balls, you get a whole bucket of a hundred, right? And you're hitting from the same place and you hit the same one hundred fifty. It's like so I I I could see your point if you're trying to do this block versus random stuff. But you know, when somebody's trying to cultivate skill, I had this ⁓ discussion the other day with Will Woo. I was talking about spacing that's by the way. speaker-0: ⁓ is a g give a quick speaker-1: For the people, it's it's it's he's called a motor control learning specialist. So he he helped speaker-0: That's what he has his PhD in. speaker-1: Learning. Yes. And so he said for developing golfers, it's better for them to get into a rhythm, like have one after the other of the other, like a block practice ⁓ model. He says, because then they can start getting a rhythm. It's like if you were practicing free throws. You know, of course, when you go up to the line in basketball, you might get two shots or one if it's an and one, right? And it's just isolated to that. But if you're trying to cultivate your skill, you're shooting thousands of them. It's like you're not waiting, you know. Two minutes between because you know it's gonna take that long to get fouled and go back to the line, right? So he said it's better for somebody that's really trying to, you know, dial in their mechanics and get a rhythm to do it like that. And he said, occasionally, you know, then you do ⁓ like little combines where you, you know, you go to a different hole, putt, putt out, maybe breathe. So that speaker-0: Okay, no, no, no, they're jumping too far ahead. I I I went I'm I'm married Jane Piscopolis. I went and bought my pink putter. They said 34 inches is good. They had one on the rack. I bought a dozen of the Max Fly balls that have just a line on it. I took three of them, I put them in my pocket, I went to the Costa Mesa putting green, I dropped them down, just randomly putt anywhere, certain drill, certain what. Just see if you like it. Maybe you can get your money back for the butter. Well what are you gonna do with these balls and the butter speaker-1: Well, I would do one of two things. I would one time I just get ⁓ real near the hole and get ⁓ used to like stroking a ball and watch go in the hole. So they they have that experience. Like this is what you do. Goes in the hole, right? Even if it's like a foot. Just just so they can, you know, understand that. And you know, you'd be surprised when you get a beginning golfer, you know, they'll kind of shank it or hook shank it or whatever both ways a doop, doop, and miss the pot. So when they can get the face square enough to make it from a foot or two, you know, they're on their way. So I'd start real close. And then I have this ⁓ this thing I have people do, I call it putt nowhere. So just they stroke a putt and just roll it out. And I give them this scenario. I said, You ⁓ somebody in your kindergarten class, they wrangle all the people that are still alive to a hotel. They say, Hey Brian, what do you do for fun? I play golf, I teach golf, but I play golf. And he goes, ⁓ yeah. So there's a putter there and some balls. And they say, Show me how to hit a putt. You don't really hit it to any kind of cup or anything, you're just kind of showing put somebody what a putting stroke looks like. So I explained to them just kind of feel like you're gonna do that. Just swing the club back and forth and hit the ball, see where it goes. So experience that. So I I usually will ask them to hit like real close to the hole so they get used to making the ball the putt. And then also stroking a putt so it just rolls and they can see where it goes. So they're not constrained by anything. They're just rolling a putt. So that's what I would recommend. speaker-0: So my recommendation speaker-1: Is that is that too weird for you? speaker-0: ⁓ I dig all of that. I like it all. Okay. Learn a reverse overlap putting grip. Even if you don't play golf, just go to YouTube or World Book Encyclopedia. All you gotta do is Google reverse overlap putting grip. And you could probably just do it from pictures and not have to listen to anybody off in the video. And just there's a reason why with okay, that most of the Hall of Fame use that grip. speaker-1: Fifty bucks. speaker-0: Now there's the question from Mr. John Ortega if they're taking a putting lesson from you, because they went, why am I messing around with all of this Roger Dunn and stuff like that? I went to eBay and I bought me a John Byron putter. Perfect condition. I'm gonna go get the John of John Byron to size the putter perfect for me, put the grip on that he thinks I ought to be using. And I'm gonna take me a putting lesson from Mr. Ortega. And obviously the first thing you're probably gonna do is put their hands on the putter. Is that what you're going with? Standard reverse overlap. speaker-1: Yeah, first that would be my default for sure. You know, just put your right hand on, put this finger here, put your thumbs on top, and see how that feels. And then you could maybe, you know, maneuver it a little bit one way or another, but that's just you're basically telling to put the right hand on, thumb on the top of the flat spot, left hand on, thumb on the top of the flat spot, and to get this finger kind of like you're shooting a gun. Yeah, four finger. Either go in between the the baby finger and the ring finger, or you know, between the speaker-0: Left four finger. speaker-1: The ring f or excuse me. Yeah, the ring finger and the middle finger. Just somewhere. Either one or two. And if you really wanted to go crazy, you could go over forty, this guy right there. Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: Like ⁓ yeah, sure, sure. Or or Nancy Lopez with two two fingers, right? Two fingers. speaker-1: I s I had a guy the other day, he was over eighty. I go, this is called the over forty grip. Let's do two of ⁓ It's an over eighty. You're over eighty. This this one's this one's made for you. speaker-0: So what do you think about the idea that if you took a hundred of these people and you split them up into the even number birthday and I number birthday, fifty and fifty, and you you taught them all reverse overlap and I taught ⁓ all cross handed reverse overlap. And they didn't get any other instruction from us, but they were told there was gonna be a contest with like, you know, trips to, you know, Hawaii or someplace everybody wants to go to, all expense paid, and they came out and they had a little four-hole putting contest. What do you think would happen? No other instruction, no setup instruction, no nothing, just the reverse overlappers versus the reverse overlap crosshands. speaker-1: Who am I putting my money on? I would say conventional, not reverse. speaker-0: Yes. So I've had I've had people tell me both ways, you know, like that that claim to know something about putting. And I ⁓ I've been doing this putting thing for a long time, you know, before I I putted before I I played putt-putt first, before I played my first. You know what's funny about that? City Park had a, you know, not the brand. There was a brand, and there still is. They still exist. But boy, I tell you what, they've been run down pretty far. Putt putt golfing games. But there was a putting course at City Park. And I think my mom and dad wanted to go on a date. And she had this gal that she worked with that was a lot younger, Bobby, cute blonde. And ⁓ Ricky was the either the husband at the time or maybe they were engaged. So they they took me out, I don't know, probably got me a hamburger, and I went putt-putt was putting, you know, everybody knows what I'm talking about, putt putt button and went to the city park course. I made one hole in one by Hitting the bank, banking it in backwards, you know, hit it too hard to the side and it came back and went in. And I counted every shot, 79. And the first time I played golf golf on the City Park junior course, probably like a year or two later, I shot 79. Probably had some mulligans and and gimme's, but it's funny, you know, I shot 70. So maybe I was into breaking 80 before, but Okay, so so back to back to the grip thing. Most people who became great putters historically putted conventionally. That's that's the thing. And I understand the logic, the whole left shoulders higher, and all this stuff, but you would I would definitely totally agree with John on the let's just start orthodox and and go from there. Now, if you were giving this Mary Jane Bufutnik, a lesson. Haversham, Fabricamp, whatever. You setting her up, getting her set up. You're doing the whole thing. You you you're watching a stroke without giving her any setup stuff? What what what's next? In the first lesson, putting with John, raw beginner. speaker-1: I would say that I'd set her up some. I'd I'd ask her to look straight down at the ball instead of like looking through the bottom of bifocals. Yeah. A lot of people will stand straight up and they'll kind of squat down like they're gonna sit down on the potty. Yeah, but I'd have them like hinge forward from the hips and just kinda get your torso like this way. That way and look straight down. Yeah, just kind of. speaker-0: Bent over. Soft arms, long arms. speaker-1: ⁓ usually bent slightly if if I can. But some people don't want to have ⁓ straight and feels good to ⁓ I'm not gonna discourage that, but I would encourage this, but either way, I would just wanna get ⁓ set up so they're looking straight down at the ball. And if that required that they kinda bent their speaker-0: Before they even before they even hit a putt. speaker-1: No. I'd say some sometime after they've hit a few. Because at first I'd just want them to, you know, it'd be like a kid. Go ahead. Yeah, so so there aren't there aren't multiple things in their head. So if you just go, okay, this this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna put your hands like this, you're gonna put the club right next to the ball, and you're gonna move it backwards with your hands on your arms and you're gonna hit it. Just like this. Boom. So that so they don't have like two things in their mind. So then then eventually after they've done that a little bit, then you maybe speaker-0: Put their hands on it and just tell ⁓ go whack it. speaker-1: you know, clean up their setup a little bit. But, you know, I'm I'm just like you would be with a full swing, I imagine, you probably don't want to give too many ⁓ ideas at one time 'cause brains are only usually good at thinking about one thing at a time, as far as I'm concerned. speaker-0: I would set them up. I mean, I I'm gonna set them up pretty much the same way I'm gonna set up an aspiring tour player that needs a putting lesson. I'm gonna set them up and I'm going to give them some earthly idea of the stroke, which I'm sure you'll do at some point. What would that be exactly? speaker-1: Right. So it it depends on where we're having this ⁓ session. If we're in my lab, I would sh show ⁓ the robot and I'd show ⁓ you know, if if you kinda lock your body parts in like this and you rotate, everything's gonna have a little bit of a curve to it. You know, if you wanna try to swing straighter, you have to redo some of that. speaker-0: So for the folks that don't know what the robot is, so you have a Bivwadden, the late great Bivwadden designed wooden speaker-1: No metal. Yeah, wood and metal. I have wood. speaker-0: Wood and metal, but it's not like you press a button and it swings. It's a it's a gravity controlled robot putting thing, right? That makes a theoretical, completely orthodox, professional looking putting stroke. speaker-1: Yes. The only difference between the robot and like some of the professional putting strokes that I have captured in my Sam Putt Lab, it has a little bit more curve because the arms on the robot are locked in and they're going like this. And so when it rotates around its neck, the rotation arm up up, you know, behind the head. I've got got him sitting right over there. It curves a little bit more than a human being speaker-0: So the track of the putter, so if you had a line going straight to wherever you wanted the ball to go, which most of the time in golf is a hole, right? And the ball was on that line, and you took the line on the Maxfly ball with the imitation tailor-made stripe on it. You line that up on the line, and you took your ping answer to build face, otherwise not milled putter, and you put that on the line. speaker-1: Right. speaker-0: And you aim that at the line. And you have your reverse overlap. You have your bent over posture. If you duplicated exactly the widened putting robot, the putter would not go straight back and straight through in that line. It would come in a little and get back on line, hit the ball. Ball would go theoretically straight and hold. The putter would swing to the left a little bit. And the whole time the putter face. would stay pretty square to that arc. speaker-1: Yes, 100%. Yeah. So yeah, so when I do it on the Sam ⁓ Put Lab 3D, it does mostly that. And it might deviate from that a little bit, but here's my my ⁓ rendition of the robot on the bottom. So it has a little bit more curve than the one on the top. Right. So I s I see the top one a lot with you know taller, you know, modern tour players. They flatten it out by having their arms go like this in the stroke. It was not a speaker-0: With golfers who have a stroke that are straighter back than the robot, they're doing some arm and hand and th ⁓ manipulation. speaker-1: Yeah, who who was the guy at City Park that told you to what, swing them arms? speaker-0: Yeah, how do speaker-1: Yeah, so you do l you do you you do a little bit of al joule. A little bit. That's how you straighten it. ⁓ speaker-0: Away from your body backswing, away from your body through swing. speaker-1: Not teeny bit. Almost almost can't see it. But there is some of that. Because if you lock it in, it does what the robot does. speaker-0: So if somebody were asking you the question in this first putting lesson, would you tell them, I want you to lock your wrists out and just stroke your shoulders and all what what what would the again remember, this is not Brian's taking a putting lesson from John. Nicholas is taking a putting lesson from John, a 15 handicap or a coaster mace is taking a putting lesson from John. This is a raw. Raw beginner, Miss Befudnik. Habercamp. That befudnick is her married name and Haverkamp or Haversham is her maid name. Go ahead, John. What are you telling her? She wants to know. I'm watching the robot, Mr. John, and it looks like he doesn't use his wrists. What do you want me to do with that robot? speaker-1: I probably wouldn't want I probably wouldn't suggest that. But if if I were to if I were to say something, I would I would just demonstrate this. I'd say you probably don't want to be too much like this. Risky, yeah, the windshield wiper, right? Yeah. I'd say get the feeling of doing this. Put your hands back to back and go like this. Make it feel a little bit more like this than this. I would just leave it at that. Because I think if you go lock those things in. You know, the angle between your right forearm and the shaft you wanna maintain that little flying wedge, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, yeah. Your your right arm flying wedge. We wanna do the right arm flying wedge with the flat left wrist and with have a little bit of like an angled hinge, you you're not gonna do that, right? Just say feel this versus this. And if you went like this and it moved a little bit, so be it. Just don't want it to be speaker-0: Sure. Just little wrist. What about encouraging shoulder motion with no arm swing or a little arm swing? speaker-1: If it's a short putt, they're not probably not moving their shoulders very much at all. So I I wouldn't I I probably wouldn't bring that in that into the conversation just right away. You know, if if if they had watched putting or somebody had cr given them a putting lesson, you know, their husband or their boyfriend or, you know, their brother or something like that, then if that comes up in the conversation, we could talk about it. But I generally just want them to move their hands and their hands and arms like this. And, you know, not too much of that. So just that idea, you put your hands right here, and then if there was like a spoke coming out, it travels somewhat in your torso. So if you go like this, the spokes out outside your right shoulder. Sure. Or if you go like this, it's outside your left shoulder. So just you know, if you had a lot like a stick that you could put in there, just kind of make a little belly putter thing for them. Just something like that. Like I think ⁓ eyeline makes a a rod that you can put on the head and you put it into your sternum. It gives them that idea. So if you want to do that, you get an aiming stick and Jam it in there, you know, put it in their armpit, just something where they could feel, you know, not this. That might be appropriate at some point, but maybe not at the beginning. speaker-0: A little bit of arm swing, a little bit of shoulder motion, and not discourage but not encourage risk. speaker-1: I would discourage a lot of wrists. I I'd bring that up. We don't want to be super risky, but I wouldn't discourage like you have to have ⁓ super locked because if you look at the best putters, some of them as they start going farther back, there's a little bit of a little little I call it hula hands. You they're kinda hands doing little hula. It's not like massive. Yeah. Especially on longer putts, uphill ones. speaker-0: So but the probability at by the end of the hour is that you've kind of like got him to make something like a reasonable putting stroke. Do you like them to hold their finish? You know, people are gonna wanna come out of their bend over and they're gonna wanna look at the ball and all this stuff. How ⁓ it how how about all of that? Hold the finish for three seconds, keep your head down. What about but you hear all that? speaker-1: Crazy stuff. So so what I like to have ⁓ do is this. You're gonna look at the hole like this. So you're gonna have your head swiveled like this way. Jeff Mangum calls it like he goes, pretend you're like an apple on a stick, right? You got an apple and you're you're on a stick. You go with that. speaker-0: You're gonna you're gonna have their head bent over enough to look more or less straight out of their eyes. speaker-1: Yeah, down at the ⁓ down at the ball, then trace the line like ⁓ as much as you can get it like this, you know, sometimes you're gonna be like this. speaker-0: Back of the neck. Yeah, but Ben Doyle, my my teacher, famous teacher, Ben Doyle. Very, very, very, very, very big on the back of your neck being parallel to the ground when you were putting. speaker-1: You could park a picture on it. speaker-0: And Big Don Vilavaso, six foot four, three seventy-five in his prom. I don't know if Todd was three seventy-five. He was three twenty. He was a foot, he was an inch or an ounce. 100% had his neck great putter parallel to the ground. Nicholas parallel to the ground. Tiger never really ever had his neck parallel to the ground, did he? speaker-1: No. No. No. So so that's why Sure. Sure. That's that's why I think you have to have a little bit of ⁓ flexibility in how you coach anything. And you see these ranges of like, okay, some good putters, their their head kind of looks like or excuse me, their neck, they're this the tip of this blue, light blue, ⁓ Sharpie. They might be looking like that. And other guys might be like that, you know. So you gotta allow for that 'cause you're trying to tell a guy who putts reasonably well like this to go like that and speaker-0: Share a potts, now that that that Tiger Woods guy. speaker-1: For no really great reason. speaker-0: Little bit of a little bit of tilt to the neck. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: No, and you're not gonna make that on a speaker-1: Not necessarily, unless it's for a reason. So let's say if you're like this, you're probably, as you're orbiting your shoulders, you're gonna create a lot more. speaker-0: Not everybody's not everybody's watching. So when you say like this, if you stood sh if you stood straight up and started just looking at the ball down your cheeks. speaker-1: That was vertical. Yeah. So if you're like that and you rotate your your body and your arms, whatever, it's gonna have a real around quality to the movement. And if you if you bend more forward, like your neck is parallel to the ground, let's say, and your shoulders are you know bent forward and that your shoulders start orbiting more like vertically, kind of like a like a ferris wheel versus a merry-go-round, then it's gonna generally lend itself to you having a little bit straighter ⁓ clubhead arc. So so you you can fiddle with that too. speaker-0: What about okay, so you you got the neck position, you got the eye gaze position. Do you want the ball directly underneath the eyeballs? Remember now, new not not not I'd given not giving Luke Donald a putting lesson here. You this is Fabricamp Fabersham. speaker-1: I say it's a good place to start. We're I'm not gonna say, well, ninety percent of the tour players have it off their third eye on their forehead. Just get your eyes looking down at the ball. And it kn they may or may not actually achieve that unless they have a putting mirror, but not a bad idea to say, Hey, get your eyes directly over the line. I speaker-0: I generally do that and the neck. What the hell? I shoot for the moon. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. There's some guys that do that, they're good, and other guys that don't do that are good. speaker-0: So now they've taken this putting lesson, or maybe they watched the video that John Otenko, Brian Manzello, Joe Pascopoulos, or Phil Kenyon. speaker-1: If you if you take her from Phil Canyon, you're gonna be like short about fifteen hundred dollars of a speaker-0: But I'm just saying you watch the video. We're gonna have Phil on. We're definitely gonna have Phil on the show. And ⁓ among other ⁓ guests, but we're we're we're just trying to get our f our footing right here. Now they know kinda how to put. They have balls with lines on them, they have a putter with a line on it, and you tell them or whoever they're speaker-1: He's cheap he's cheaper. speaker-0: knowledgeable person in the area that they live. There's a place where you can go putt on the practice putting green. Or you're telling them to putt three footers, go around the clock, so to speak. What what how would you have them do their skill development now that they have some instruction, however they got it? They got a putter, they got balls, they got a little know how. Now what? speaker-1: I do this even for ⁓ experienced golfers. I have ⁓ find a straight putt start start out hitting straight putts and probably give speaker-0: Find a straight part of you, Mr. Bufudnik. speaker-1: You keep hitting it until it doesn't curve. You keep hitting it till it doesn't curve. And it speaker-0: The ball at the hole and watch the ball. So how do you introduce so that that that brings us one off of that? You've already got this stroke. Maybe you were set up, you had a little putting mat and you were in Safe Ways produce section giving free putting lessons. Don't laugh. I've I gave full swing lessons in the produce section of Kroger in Louisville, Kentucky once. The people that I was working for, they set it up. Plastic ball. Ladies going by buying their, you know, squeezing their lettuce. And and I'm I'm I'm trying to teach somebody not to shank it into the rhubarbs. So let's just say they got their putting lesson that way. How are you introducing the idea that if you aim this putter and this line and this ball and your stroke all at this hole and you putt it, it might not, it probably won't go in. It's gonna curve, probably. speaker-1: Yeah. So speaker-0: How you introduce that to new golfers? speaker-1: You mean finding the straight putt or understanding? speaker-0: The idea that putts break, how do you introduce that to new putters and what would you have them do once you introduce it so they can kinda get the feel for that fact that the as Mr. Ray Ergeron, who used to play with my dad, would say, the curvature of the earth instead of earth. He was a yak like me. speaker-1: Okay. Yeah, well, I would maybe share the story about the first time I saw somebody putt golf ball. I was I was a caddy. I was a caddy ⁓ in sixth grade, so I might have been eleven or twelve up at Hacienda Country Club. There's this big guy on the putting green in front of the pro shop in front of the main clubhouse, and he was hitting a putt, maybe I don't know, four or five feet, and the ball's curving. And I s I said to him, I go, How do you make that ball curve? And he goes, You have a lot to learn, son, right? And what what it just means is when you putt, 99% of the time the ball's gonna curve. But there is a putt on the green at any particular spot, like if you have a ⁓ like a practice putting green, nine holes cut out of the practice putting green, we can get a reasonably straight putt. So if you hit a putt and it breaks right or left or whatever, it has some curve, move around until it breaks less. Or it might start baking more. If it breaks more, go the other direction. speaker-0: Let interrupt right here. So you got this is just again, we we we we hope we're you know finding people who just never played golf before, just stumbled on it's a cute song, and and the and the guys aren't you know too bad to listen to. So you you you everybody has seen like a matchbook car, like the little cars, you know, that kids play with. You have the little tracks, right? The little tracks, and you you Shoot a thing and it goes down the track. Okay, so if you took a really straight one of these tracks and you raised up one end and you put the ball on there and the ball came down the track, what John is saying is the vast majority of all putts hit on planet Earth today from the Renaissance club that I have played several times, the home of the Teminskys, Nick, former club champion of. 17 years old. Hurstbourne Country Club today. They're playing the opposite field event. I've played there a few times, even played it once since the Keith Foster redo in my old teaching home of Louisville, Kentucky. All the way to the practice putting green at City Park last week that I was on with Kyle Trout. That's a story for another day. So all of the people that are putting all over the world today. hitting a putt, if it rolled perfectly down this Hot Wheels track, would it it wouldn't go dead straight where the track was pointing, correct? Or not? speaker-1: Correct. speaker-0: So that's what we call break. Now, what's the reasons for this phenomenon? Why don't they go straight? speaker-1: Because when they build greens, they they intentionally put like not perfectly flat. Like if you're gonna put down a wood floor, you're gonna point put put down a self leveling epoxy or something similar. And then you and then you put the the wood down on top so it doesn't move or crack, right? So what when they when they construct greens, they intentionally when they grade the the land, they have a place where the water can go so that the water won't stand and, you know, ⁓ mildew or whatever get fungus or or different kinds of ⁓ bacteria that would kill the grass. True. So it's it's it's it's a design feature that you're gonna have on every golf course, firstly for that reason and second it it presents a better challenge. If everything was flat like a pool table, it wouldn't be as challenging. For both of those speaker-0: Any other reasons that the ball wouldn't go straight? speaker-1: If the ball's lobsided, maybe, or I don't know, you could probably in the beginning of a putt, you know, put slice or hook on it and might have a little weird like deflection when it hits the ground, or it might hit like a depression in the ground, or you know, ca that could happen along the roll too. If you hit like a front. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You you got you got the grain. The grain the grain can can definitely influence it. But here in SoCal, unless we're playing on bent, it's speaker-0: But speaker-1: Yeah, the Poana doesn't really have a prominent grain grain to it. And if it is, it's pretty negligible. So it's not even worth considering. But definitely the the speaker-0: Could be out out of ⁓ out of balance too. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It could be out around. Yeah, if you had so if you're if you were like Roger Gunn and you had the little spinny thing and you put the dot on the top. Not not Roger Dunn, Roger Gunn. Yeah, he used to do this I forget what the name of the the the item was, but it was a s a thing that would spin a golf ball. speaker-0: I don't know. We had him at the at the at Protect Golf on 3000 Severn in Mettery, right across from Lakeside Shopping Center. speaker-1: Yeah, or or or if you were Bryson D. Chambeau, you could put a ball in Epsom salt, get it to the top where it's just there and then put a dot on the top, spin it around, and if it doesn't come up exactly there, the ball's not speaker-0: What John's talking about these things are readily available. Like ⁓ I'm sure, you know, you can get anything on Amazon. There's they're usually red for whatever reason, like our microphones, but they could be any color and and they have like a little motor in there. They have a battery or something. And you put the ball on this little like suction cup or something that's for it to sit, and then a cage on top of it, and you press the button and the ball just starts randomly spinning around. It's trying to spin around its center of gravity where the it should be in the middle of the ball, but not all balls, almost no balls are perfectly, perfectly that way. And the idea of the ones I've used, the spinners, is that you would put a dot on the there's a little spot on the cage for you to take a marker and put a dot on top of the ball and then I was always told that the dot had to be somewhere on the line you were trying to make the ball go. It could be straight up or where would you put the dot? And that would be the same dot if you did the Bryce's D shambeau bald and Epsom salts and spun it and let it rest. You'd put the dot on top and then where would you put the dot when you put it? speaker-1: Might as well put on top. Yeah. And you've never speaker-0: Fine that that there'll be there'll be balls that the dot will be perfectly on the line that's on the ball. Then you've got an extra special ball. speaker-1: Yeah, s save that for tournament day. speaker-0: Tournament day. Okay. So you that's now now. So would you tell them, hey, just go to the golf course and try to how would you remember we talked about green reading last time from a high end, but from a very basic new golfer, they understand that the ground is not level and the grass, some parts of the country, the grain and the ball is not. But how would you ha teach them to start skill acquiring? the feel that or the eyesight or whatever it is, the the the brain function that I am now one observing these balls curve off of what I think is a straight hit putt. And I need to try to predict this a little bit or I'm gonna never make one unless I accidentally knock it in. speaker-1: Just yeah, a little blind squirrel. Yeah. So I I usually use and I think I've talked about this in a previous episode, I'll use one of those alignment sticks. You c you can get you know, at in the pro shop or if you go to Lowe's, you can buy ⁓ for real cheap, like three bucks or so. speaker-0: Garage I mean not what what the what they call driveway mark speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. So I think they use ⁓ in in snow banks in in the yeah, like in Minnesota so that you don't back up into speaker-0: Have one right out here in the the the the very expensive driveway here at the studio in the sky. There's a reflected a reflector at the top of a driveway marker where you can buy those too. And that's so people don't tear up the grass in the house next door. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's say this is one of those sticks, right? Yeah. So so you could aim it, you know, at mostly at where you want to go. Like let's say if the hole is the microphone here. I don't know if I can make this work. Yeah, I can. So I I could aim this like on the left side of the microphone here. This is the hole, it represents the hole. You're standing over here where my left hand is, and you know you you put a ball here that's, you know, kind of in the center of the hole. You this is parallel to the center. Yep. And you hit a putt. And if you started on that line reasonably. And if it curves, you just keep moving around until it's closer to straight, or you just keep moving around and see how much it's breaking from each location. And then if you really wanted to get fancy, most people have an iPhone or a Android, something or another, you know, some phone, you know, they could balance it on on a head cover or or something, I don't know, a couple T's, and just watch the ball, you know, roll from from behind. But you you know, you can get a pretty good idea of what's happening when you just do this. You know, in if you if you wanted to, you get a ruler. You get like a cheap paint ruler at Home Depot for two bucks and put it behind behind where you're gonna hit the putt, put the ball an inch or two in front, take it back, you could maybe put it right in front. Or you could put it right right on top of the ruler, just maybe an inch or two back and hit the putt, you know, and s see if it goes on the line. Or you could take the ruler and aim it like straight at the hole and be like, This is the hole, here's the ruler here and putt the ruler. Anything that gets speaker-0: Get yourself in other words, let me see if I get this right. Just get something straight, a ruler or a lineman stick, garage you know, ⁓ I keep saying garage, mean driveway marker, if for the people that don't haven't turned these into a cottage industry and golf, and line that up straight, you know, just off of where the ball would have to go. And then or or if you're in the case of the ruler, maybe at where the ball goes, and then just observe when you think you've hit a putt. You'll kinda know after the first couple dozen putts that you could do in a few minutes that you probably started it where you were intending. Then you can kind of observe where it goes from there. And then just use intuition at first, right? John, don't get in any particular system or anything. Just use your intuition and figure out where you would have to aim so that when you strike the butt, the curve helps you knock it into the hole. Is that the basic idea? speaker-1: Yes. And I even gave that type of lesson to a guy yesterday. He's a a kid from Westlake Village and he was a George Gankis kid. He's big, big, tall kid, really good athlete. And I got him one of my groove boards when we went over to Costa Mesa and I was just telling him, just aim this where you think you need to aim it to to make the ball go in the hole. Since I'm all like mic'd up and everything, I can't go over and grab one of my groove boards. But so anyhow, it's about the the width of the hole and ⁓ the little ones that I make right now are about fourteen inches long. And I just have haven't had him aim that that ⁓ board where he th thought he needed to start the putt to make it and he just kept adjusting it till he made it. I go then look look see where that's aimed. That's kind of like what we're doing with the stick or the ⁓ the ruler. And then he saw what was aimed he go, ⁓ my God, that's way more to the right or left than I thought it was. Or he he even said even said one of the times, he said, you know when I stand over the ball and from behind it looked like it was, you know, he he put his hands out because like 16 or a little bit more than a foot apart or foot foot ⁓ outside the hole. And when he when he got from behind the hole looking at the the where it actually was aimed, it was more like two and a half feet. So it was amazing the difference in how much there was a disparity between what he visualized standing over the ball and from behind the ball versus ⁓ when he when he v ⁓ viewed what it what it was from behind the hole. But that's that's a little bit more advanced, just just in in general. speaker-0: if you if you just took a ⁓ a again you know home depot lowe's you know ace hardware yard stick right it's about an inch wide put that on the putting green where you think you want to start the putt put the ball somewhere in the mid maybe the middle of the stick or the first 10 12 inches of it try to make the ball leave the stick straight speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: It probably not gonna break very much then. And then just observe where the ball goes. That's that's it. So that would be can do you would basically say that something like that, that would be your first putting training aid, like a yard stick or or equivalent. speaker-1: Yeah, and and some of the naysayers would go, Well, the friction isn't the same on the stick as it is on the ground, but it's it's close enough. You know, it's like speaker-0: Okay. It's gonna get you it's it's gonna get you going. Now how often would you say, 'cause we gotta wrap it up here. We gotta we we do. How often do you think somebody needs to put speaker-1: Do we have to? speaker-0: Remember now that we're assuming a pretty much a beginner before they're a ⁓ a good putter. And do you think that playing golf and learning to putt is easier or harder? And then I'll give you my wrap up on that and we'll play a cute little tune. speaker-1: Okay, so the question is, is it more helpful to learn how to putt on the golf course versus the putting green? Is that what was a question? Or something of that nature? Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, that that was a really poorly worded. Here we we'll do it again. So it do you think ⁓ how often would you have this person practice that wants to just learn to putt? And you would have a putt anywhere they could probably putt, right? Putt putt golfing games, their yard, they'd buy a putting mat on on on eBay, but they would go to their local putting green and putt, putting, putt. But okay. It ⁓ the the question was simple. How often should they practice if they want to be pretty good? How long is it gonna take ⁓ Question number one. And since this person is just putting and not playing golf, do they have an advantage or disadvantage to a person who started playing the whole sport at one time and they're also, you know, hitting driver and three hybrid and chipping and wedging out of bunkers and then putting. Is there an advantage one way or the other and how often would you tell the people to practice button? speaker-1: I'm going with there's an advantage to to just isolating putting. If you want to just get better at putting, because you're going have more time to do it and you're going to have less things to distract you from that task. So it as a newer golfer, I'm saying for sure, and you you can disagree, that's fine. Putting only and putting with some sort ⁓ some form of feedback, like what we just talked about with the ruler. And and better yet, if you had a coach, and even if that coach was your Older brother who's a good golfer, who's a scratch golfer and has knows a little bit about putting, that would be even better. If you if you had somebody like yourself or myself that does it for a living, better yet. Yeah, for sure. Putting how much practice, I would say minimum two times a week, then you're maybe gonna get a little bit better. And I would say more so if you could go four or five, then you're gonna get better. So it's like if you're gonna play guitar, let's say, and you're gonna try to learn how to, you know, whatever, finger pick. speaker-0: How much for that's great? So how much? speaker-1: If you do it once a week, you're not gonna be as good as you do it if you did it every day, right? It's the reps. Like I always like to tell people I go, Yeah, I'm gonna give you some ideas about how to get better at putting. But if you don't put in the reps, so you can't hold me wholly responsible for you not putting as well as you had hoped to. You've got to put in the reps. So that's why I say if they were just putting, they're gonna have an advantage over doing everything for putting. Maybe not for total score because you have to do everything to to score well. But Putting only for putting. speaker-0: So the message of today is you could be a non-golfer, spend a couple hundred dollars on a really good putter that you might putt with for the rest of your life, maybe, right? Or for a long time. You can go buy a dozen at the same place, buy a dozen balls with a line on it, maybe take one reasonable putting lesson, watch a couple videos on YouTube, go to some public golf course, start figuring out. the fact that the putt's not gonna roll straight down your yardstick and spend maybe an hour, two days a week. And in about a month, you'll be not terrible by any stretch. And within a few months, you should be a reasonably good putter. Yes or no? speaker-1: Yes. Unl unless so unless you're not present when you put. Unless you're not present when you put. If you're not respect the three footer. speaker-0: I'm trying, it ain't gonna work anyway. Not only folks, not only is putting fun. Easy. Really? speaker-1: Or classic wrong router. speaker-0: But a little bit of help be straight helps a lot. Good butter. And this podcast speaker-1: Respect the three footer. Your time rollin' puts will surely be fair. Putt putt putting chillin' a dream. Putt with your rose, go soak up the sun-free vitamin D is good for everyone. I'm just spitting facts. Putting is fun. speaker-0: See you soon, Johnny.