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Captain Britain 3-4: Mayhem on a Monday Morning! Plus an interview with Al Ewing! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

0:09
[SPEAKER_07]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Green Walken Lane podcast where queer friends and allies gather to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
0:16
[SPEAKER_07]: We're going to be releasing this in September on Green Walken Lane where we're going to be talking a lot about Marvel Magic, Marvel Cosmos Building and the concepts of Lovecraft and its impact on some of the industry and world building that exists.
0:29
[SPEAKER_07]: I am thrilled to be joined by my friend, Al-Yu-ing returning to the show.
0:32
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll always such an enormous honor to have you here.
0:35
[SPEAKER_07]: Al has been doing some crazy universe building at Marvel for a long time, playing with a lot of the blocks that have been left behind and building new things out of them.
0:43
[SPEAKER_07]: Al, how are you?
0:44
[SPEAKER_07]: Welcome back to Grimmolkin Lane.
0:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing a game as we record this.
0:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I've just come back from a trip to London where we kind of did a sort of post-pride dance party thing.
0:58
[SPEAKER_07]: Post-Con or Post-Travel, I'm always very tired, but whenever I celebrate Pride events, I often wind up a little joy saturated, which is a good feeling, right?
1:06
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, my joy receptors are a little overloaded and it leaves me weary, because it's hard to step back into the regular world.
1:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's I mean, I did like a lot of dancing But it's the most relaxed up in a long time.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your signature dance move, are you?
1:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they more moves more like big moves So I do a lot of kind of spinning around.
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I do that thing where you sort of spin around through a 360 on the beat.
1:31
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah Yeah, I'm picturing uh that's Thomas.
1:33
[SPEAKER_07]: I think dancing queen comes on and there you go
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: There was some aberroid, I don't know, but what exactly I'm not sure was, that's a kind of might've been the handplay of the love and make, but yeah, mostly we're doing sort of more kind of modern pop stuff.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of, a lot of sharper right in this case gets played.
1:50
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
1:52
[SPEAKER_07]: I love it.
1:53
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a it's a powerful thing especially in both our countries 2025 is a rough place.
1:57
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot of conservative.
1:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not great.
2:00
[SPEAKER_07]: You've been kind of fascism bordering on it in a lot of places It's important to celebrate where we can, you know?
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think we might be like over that boy So it's yeah, we definitely have to take joy where we can and so we've take have good times where there are good times there to be half
2:17
[SPEAKER_07]: We're going to open today's interview in kind of an odd place.
2:19
[SPEAKER_07]: I grew up Mormon, gay and Mormon, in a very conservative place.
2:23
[SPEAKER_07]: And Mormons in the philosophy that I grew up in Mormons have a very particular idea about the origins of the universe.
2:29
[SPEAKER_07]: Much like a lot of cultures or traditions or religions do.
2:33
[SPEAKER_07]: And Mormonism, there's this question you want to ask like, why are we here, what happens to us, right?
2:38
[SPEAKER_07]: And when we're looking for kind of purpose, we want to have like an understanding of origin.
2:43
[SPEAKER_07]: So there's this very complex thing in Mormonism called the plan of salvation, where you can
2:48
[SPEAKER_07]: go back a couple billion years and start talking about the origin of God and how God began as a human who eventually evolved into what he is and had billions of spiritual children and built them a planet.
3:01
[SPEAKER_07]: Then there's, and I'm skipping over a whole bunch of stuff, but then there's this big war in heaven.
3:06
[SPEAKER_07]: One, and this ends up being Jesus.
3:08
[SPEAKER_07]: One person wants to send men to Earth to test them and save them through grace.
3:13
[SPEAKER_07]: and Satan or Lucifer wants to send spirits to Earth, but not give them the option of free will.
3:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Instead, allow them to just be automatically saved by allowing them to follow all the rules because agency would not exist.
3:27
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a giant war and only the ones that follow Jesus end up on Earth, and those ones who end up at the highest levels of like,
3:35
[SPEAKER_07]: obedience and where they just end up becoming gods in their own time.
3:38
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm something up a lot of things crazily, but it's really interesting to me as we're prefacing today's interview when I start channeling man's need to understand their origins and like divine purpose.
3:47
[SPEAKER_07]: And when we go into the Marvel universe, the origins are oddly very similar.
3:52
[SPEAKER_07]: We're just
3:53
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a very kind of crazy thing to consider.
3:55
[SPEAKER_00]: With the cosmologies of novel, it's obviously it's built from a whole bunch of people's different religious damage from your 60s to beyond, I mean, probably starting in the 70s, but a year, it's a whole bunch of people with a whole bunch of, like, their own origin stories kind of writing that into this adhesive issue universe, but yeah, that sounds obviously wild.
4:17
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a lot of stuff that we've seen comics, everything, you know, prophecy to predestination to faith in the higher power, so much of that works into our superhero fiction, not just in Mormonism, but in like any religion, I think that that automatically kind of exists.
4:31
[SPEAKER_07]: Now Marvel's cosmology is built like you said on a lot of different things.
4:34
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a ton of foundations put into it.
4:36
[SPEAKER_07]: But there always seems to be kind of the quest for man to reach that higher plane.
4:42
[SPEAKER_07]: We open fantastic four number one with V characters being hit by cosmic rays while launching themselves into space.
4:48
[SPEAKER_07]: Peter learning lessons about responsibility, mutants being the next evolution of man.
4:54
[SPEAKER_07]: It's all about kind of progression and worth how we kind of commune with things.
4:58
[SPEAKER_07]: Dr. Strange, however, is the first character that really delves into that in Marvel.
5:02
[SPEAKER_07]: he kind of ascends to that like higher plane and interfaces with eternity who is like the embodiment of the cosmos and eternity is like a playable character in the Marvel universe.
5:12
[SPEAKER_07]: We start adding characters like the stranger and the watcher and the elders of the universe.
5:17
[SPEAKER_07]: And over the decades, these mythos have been built on again and again, galactus of course is a huge piece infinity, the concept of death and the way she influences Thanos.
5:27
[SPEAKER_07]: So there's this giant cosmology of playable characters.
5:31
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think one of the major origins of all of this is Lovecraft himself, who built these huge worlds of extra-dimensional monsters and projected consciousnesses, all kinds of things.
5:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you have a particular relationship with the Lovecraftian mythos?
5:45
[SPEAKER_07]: I know, by the way, that they are very deeply rooted in racism and eugenics.
5:49
[SPEAKER_07]: And there's a lot of complicated stuff there.
5:51
[SPEAKER_07]: It's crazy.
5:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean personally I think my relationship with Lovecraft is probably it's pretty basic It's pretty much like the average set of relationship on the culture that you end up I can't So I really read I don't I probably read like one Lovecraft story in my life and I couldn't tell you which one either But the influence of Lovecraft on on culture It's like so when I was growing up, there was a Rob Lank and called called a called Thulic Witch
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: was just like, you know, one of the big roleplay.
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It was done to dragons and then if you didn't like that, there were a couple of others among them as cool to do.
6:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was like, oh yeah, that's the horror one.
6:28
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the one where you've got like sanity problems.
6:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you've got to stop going that, and it's all the love stuff.
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you just knew Pukethil was, you know, you'd love to have to change.
6:38
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of like Bram Stoker and initially one of these things were like his creations kind of enter the public consciousness almost through his Moses like they're just floating around at the cultural atmosphere and you know if you be adjective lovecraftian you know what that means you know what kind of horror that is you know roughly if somebody says oh yeah I'm writing something lovecraftian you know what they mean you know what they're trying to take so I guess my relationship with lovecraft is just I'm sort of swimming in the
7:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the kind of, I guess all of my sort of ideas and opinions about like the food and I thought some crafty and what it means, the meat sort of, it's like second hand and kind of, you know, I have opinions, but they're all based on the sort of the way what came out of our craft to sort of bounce stuff all of these surfaces, all these angles and kind of come back to me.
7:30
[SPEAKER_07]: it's impact on popular culture is more relevant than specific people latching on because these ideas were in place in so many sci-fi stories before we, you know, came around.
7:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Now when we look at this in relation to the Marvel cosmos,
7:45
[SPEAKER_07]: There are a lot of additive things.
7:46
[SPEAKER_07]: We begin with eternity and Galactus and these kind of high-concept ideas and later writers from Stan Lee to Mark Greenwald to Roger Stern to more modern writers like Jerry Duggen and Dan Slot and yourself really kind of taking the playing pieces and making them big.
8:02
[SPEAKER_07]: I have talked about this on the show, but there's some really fun stuff in Quasar under Greenwall, where we see a place called the Dimension of Manifestations, where all these eternal concepts are like building bodies for themselves to be able to interact, and it's almost as though the gods are sitting down together, but they all represent different concepts.
8:19
[SPEAKER_07]: There are parallels like death and oblivion, which is currently being played out in huge ways along with the turnity in Mariah Daly's storm series.
8:27
[SPEAKER_07]: We see Master Order in Lord Chaos, the living tribunal, the powers that be the natural order of things, life and love and hate, the in-betweener and the Phoenix Force is all part of this as well.
8:38
[SPEAKER_07]: But we also have this idea of the Celestials and the first cosmos.
8:43
[SPEAKER_07]: And the way that that has built into the seventh and eighth of the cosmos is the way that we exist.
8:48
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, you are one of the few writers, and we did discuss this in your original interview, who've really taken this and tried to expand it in huge ways, first in ultimates, and later in your defenders beyond work, but also in your work on Krakawa, where we look at things like the Dominions.
9:02
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, I'm tossing this all over the place, but do you want to talk about how you first became familiar with the rules of the Marvel Cosmos and how you chose to create these as your building blocks for the stories you're telling?
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Major wanted to say, when the epic collections came out, which was really like the first major opportunity to kind of go back and look at the stuff on, you know, a reasonable budget was those big backermite epic collection and you know, it wasn't necessarily been in my
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's when that when those came out those those are like the 2000s The dearly early to my 2000s I feel like when those dropped the big phone books the big kind of not the first John phone book.
9:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess your original is a pretty big service But like definitely the first we're gonna collect all of the old stuff in a way people can afford it's and you know To begin with black and white, but you get them in killing out man.
9:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I had I had like
9:57
[SPEAKER_00]: when it got on to like the steam, the angle-hard strange stuff and you had stuff like the entire universe blowing up and then, you know, the strange having to kind of recreate it.
10:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I sort of homaged them a little bit in the end defenders because that whole room with the angle-hard ends would like the strange having to like come down from the trip.
10:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how we ended the first defenders.
10:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Many, there was a major move.
10:19
[SPEAKER_00]: to archo-staff or rather present archo-staff two people in the teeth and the re-help them again.
10:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We met in close early on all of the all of the great work Mark Grimmold there that's really difficult to find still that's still difficult to find it's hard it's it's not really on my plan that it's in any
10:37
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I have the whole run.
10:39
[SPEAKER_07]: It's solid.
10:39
[SPEAKER_07]: I really enjoy it.
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to get hold of.
10:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like these.
10:42
[SPEAKER_00]: These are the stuff strange.
10:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always where you can pick them up.
10:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You can read them.
10:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like there's going to kind of point where Claser is sort of, oh, I've properly, you're like, reprinted properly.
10:54
[SPEAKER_00]: What's gonna happen is that a whole bunch of people are gonna have on the greatest, I'm gonna get the Chestery through all this stuff, and after that, there's gonna be a major kind of... It raises an attempt to fit that fiddle of that stuff back in, because I think, suddenly, suddenly, in case of me, I was sort of trying to fit in as much as I could.
11:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been trying to fit in as much as I could in terms of everything that had come before, make it fit.
11:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, at the same time... Trying to do what I wanted to do dramatically.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: and sort of so a few things from the night is to make it.
11:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I sort of like, I pushed a braxis off to the side.
11:29
[SPEAKER_07]: I feel like we want to talk about a braxis today, everybody, make a look and map it.
11:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've got like kind of pushed them off the side.
11:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I sort of didn't really want to deal with it, but like I know that the generation coming after me creatively, have like fond memories of a braxis.
11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I feel like it's a matter of time if it hasn't have to already before a braxis comes.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's the kind of thing, you know, I'm sort of, I'm taking a lot from like my understanding of of those those 70s, both of them.
11:56
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of it's stuff like you have stuff like Engelharb, who's like Dabbling Matty, you're Leon Duker, which, I know, lead definitely one, it's kind of get sort of, I guess, get Kelsnake for one of about a word, get Kelsnake for one of about a word, get Kelsnake for one of
12:07
[SPEAKER_00]: and if like but in a very in a very hip-boy, but like Deco, you know, visually just these incredible sort of idea beings and then you have people fall up and that would like you have still in just building this enormous and I guess people like Bruno's and also shooter, Jim Shooter, I guess sequel's too was a major influence on me as a kid.
12:27
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so let's talk about a couple of these high concepts.
12:30
[SPEAKER_07]: And again, it's additive playing blocks and we're not gonna delve deep into the origins.
12:34
[SPEAKER_07]: But to cover this almost in a biblical way, I'm not Christian in any way, but I do think there's a lot of Christian mythology here.
12:39
[SPEAKER_07]: In the beginning, it was the first cosmos.
12:41
[SPEAKER_07]: It existed unchanging and it was lonely.
12:44
[SPEAKER_07]: So it created the aspirants.
12:46
[SPEAKER_07]: Beings that were sent forth to create life that would not change, but it also created the Celestials, beings who wanted to evolve and grow.
12:54
[SPEAKER_07]: In time, this led to a war between the two creations,
12:57
[SPEAKER_07]: Which is very God-creating can enable almost, you know, they eventually are going to war, because in the garden, there was no progression until they stepped outside and learned.
13:06
[SPEAKER_07]: But this ended up fracturing that first Cosmos, or first Firmament, and creating the second Cosmos, which is the first version of the multiverse.
13:14
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, the first firmament ends up becoming its own sentient being, think of it like a captive eternity.
13:20
[SPEAKER_07]: And this is a character I will bring up later in some of his adventures as kind of an entity that exists to destroy our world.
13:27
[SPEAKER_07]: So this cosmos in the second universe created the Omega's to monitor the multiverse from outside of the multiverse.
13:34
[SPEAKER_07]: And these beings end up becoming called the beyonders because they're viewing the world from beyond.
13:40
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot of confusing origins for the beyonders,
13:43
[SPEAKER_07]: But this realm is kind of what exists where the cosmic cubes can tap into them and eventually hatch into their own beings.
13:50
[SPEAKER_07]: This is also kind of the space if you read like sinister becoming a dominion, he goes out to the beyond and can view the whole multiverse from outside.
13:58
[SPEAKER_07]: So it's another playable realm.
14:00
[SPEAKER_07]: So now the Cosmos can age, and there is change.
14:03
[SPEAKER_07]: Eventually the second Cosmos retires becomes the third Cosmos, which is the place that starts creating the concepts of heroes.
14:09
[SPEAKER_07]: Al has some work with a life-bringer one that stuff.
14:13
[SPEAKER_07]: That eventually becomes the fourth Cosmos where more of the consistent patterns of heroes and villains come into existence.
14:20
[SPEAKER_07]: And we see this very beautifully portrayed out in your work in Ultimate's number 100, Ultimate's two number six, and the Defenders Beyond series really explains all this in a clear way.
14:29
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, the fourth cosmos eventually goes on, again, as an eternity being, a playable character, to because it's own entity that now exists, and you re-adapted that into the character, the queen of Nevers, combining a Dan Slot character with this idea of cosmos.
14:44
[SPEAKER_07]: The Queen of Numbers, I read his trans, we'll talk about that in just a moment.
14:47
[SPEAKER_07]: Her sister is something called the griever at the end of all things, who you'll notice a balance in all of this, right?
14:53
[SPEAKER_07]: We have progression balanced by death very consistently.
14:57
[SPEAKER_07]: The idea of stagnation versus progression is something that all ecosystems rely on.
15:02
[SPEAKER_07]: In the fifth cosmos, we see magic and sorcery come into existence.
15:06
[SPEAKER_07]: Morodoon is among them, who is a very catholic character, who goes on to become like an
15:13
[SPEAKER_07]: In the 6th Cosmos, science is introduced, and then in the 7th Cosmos, this is where eternity and infinity become kind of the twin embodiments of the Cosmos itself.
15:22
[SPEAKER_07]: They go on to form our universe, which is since in the Jonathan Hickman's Secret War series become the 8th Cosmos, but we're not going to delve deep into that today.
15:30
[SPEAKER_07]: So our current universe then has its own very complex origins, which we'll talk a little bit about high concept in a moment.
15:37
[SPEAKER_07]: Ow, what's it like to hear kind of the recounting of your work establishing these previous cosmoses?
15:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if to hear a counting mod that, it's so much like hearing a backwards, because like all of this stuff was sort of built on previous stuff and like new iterations of like stories I told that
15:53
[SPEAKER_00]: sort of all the way I could do a bit more that but originally it came from at need to sort of work out.
16:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean the secret, the secret kind of origin of all of this stuff is that I did a I did a contest of champions' time book round over a cell of 2015 but I round there but I did like it was right after it came up right after the sequel, I did the Jonathan Hickman version.
16:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah it was it was a bit based on a map it's
16:18
[SPEAKER_00]: as far as I could as kids are good and I throw in a bunch of either explain what this stuff was happening.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: In the mobile games you have this thing called I-so-I, which is just game currency.
16:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, you know, you believe it's a power for your crystal.
16:31
[SPEAKER_07]: I played that game at Marvel Avengers Alliance for years.
16:34
[SPEAKER_07]: I played that hour, yeah.
16:36
[SPEAKER_00]: that was in yeah yeah we all we all did we all had a crack it it was like so it was in there it was in cons champions I don't know if it was in any of the others but like it was huge in those two since I was doing it because the cons champions don't look at there would be fun to have
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So my story in there and now I kind of brought it into the other books I was doing as well which was which was also met so I thought well Let's have this stuff actually be important since it's it's it's it's so important in the game You might as well in the actual in yet two thing it can be like one of these fun little and it's just I ended up just making it sort of a And we go ahead like cosmic keeps a kind of made out of it, but it's like
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It hasn't really come up since, but since it had the, I mean, there's like there's not much you can do with it, there doesn't remind people of mobile games.
17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there's a lot better magic medals and magic materials out there.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But it has the number 8 so it's like,
17:30
[SPEAKER_00]: to explain it.
17:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I had the idea that like this stuff was actually there'd been like an ISO 7 before that, but it's like a sort of universal kind of pamper prime wall deal stuff.
17:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, since the universe began again, and you know, powerful audio is the thing that exists.
17:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It was already there.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's a lot of done a bunch with it.
17:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it's a lot of those great
17:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's what the elves of the universe run.
17:52
[SPEAKER_00]: If the power immorial that comes to getting the universe is cool like so I know that sort of implies that we're in the eighth one.
17:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore the one that just finished with the seventh, all the seventh goes but that's that's fun.
18:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We can do stuff with that.
18:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That means Galactus was from the set and suddenly we were with the rice and suddenly we're like okay and then you know I was doing all this in all so that's not what I was sort of thinking about it.
18:13
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing I do a lot of, it's really so
18:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I did going crazy in defenders, but like I sort of sit spot things in places and go like oh well I'll use that little phrase that will turn a phrase or sort of there was the first firm and there was like those ones with stuff in that fraction defenders for them that I like with some death celestial and sort of I'll make a cancel now well we've got these death celestial we got the first firm a month this is all fun and if you
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: If I sort of did these things, these concepts, names that have already been kind of a really floating round in the background, that's fine.
18:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes the whole universe look more kind of caring and interesting.
18:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, suddenly the first fervomant was, okay, that's going to be a big bad, that's going to be the thing that like,
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And this will build to a thing where like I had this final issue of the ultimate.
19:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I was kind of, I feel like I was probably planning this for at least a little while, but I thought, oh, let's have all of the old multiverse has come back.
19:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're all like eternity typeings.
19:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And they can kind of come and they can form safety.
19:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And as it turned out, because, you know, that issue kind of came to a premature end.
19:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
19:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to do it all in like a double spread, so I had to come up with all sorts of like
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: and you know at the time the fantastic four was sort of not in the picture because of I don't know cooperation against some for more another you know number four the fact that's four on there and but I don't know you know I was using all this stuff like true believer journey into mystery pilgrim by the fourth Christmas was called the pilgrim and that's
19:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, so much of this is just like using the language of Marvel Comics, but also language of Marvel Comics publishing that kind of, all of these sort of hooks to these phrases that have kind of popped in, you know, partly as like stand the accountable book, partly as sort of like the junctions where everywhere was like you kind of just like thrown out on the page, but it has such a that that's a phrase with such power that
20:11
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of, yeah, sort of bringing back, you know, just such an evocative title that, you know, I'm always bringing that one back.
20:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, I guess what I'm trying to do with that sort of thing is try to tie the publishing history of Marvel into their cosmology of Marvel.
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Recently, I did like a giant size thing, but it's a giant size button.
20:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the brief there was like we'd like to introduce the kind of, you know, why we called the 616.
20:35
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an odd one,
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So can we have a story that sort of explains that there's a sort of multibus or big threat?
20:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I put splinterman in there, so it ended up going into the big splinterman special.
20:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Splinterman, one of the very first novel heroes, the first solo novel hero in many ways, you know, do we kill the counterhulk of the hero?
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So, explain them, I'm one of the gold novelies, and like win like the newest, the newest,
21:00
[SPEAKER_00]: here on Guy at Marvel, you know, team up, it's like the old and new and then they kind of investigate that something that's happening in the lab where the torch first explained on they the the golden bodies and the reason for that is because that is the beginning of the Marvel Universe that is the first act of creation is like human torch episode 1 which you know
21:19
[SPEAKER_00]: contradicts everything we we're saying here about like the first firm and then you know, there was a because yeah, all of these have every all of those things happen before, but they happen retroactively the first actual event in Marvel is Professor Paul and like talking on the phone about this robot, he's made it.
21:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
21:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
21:35
[SPEAKER_07]: But the creation of life in its own way, right?
21:38
[SPEAKER_07]: When we start talking about all these people, we start talking about those different high concepts, like death and eternity and oblivion, the idea that all of these entities existed in previous universes as their own independent ones and the ones that we're seeing in our universe are the most modern ones, but there's still billions of years old, right?
21:54
[SPEAKER_07]: Earth becomes kind of the focal point for all of the magic in our cosmos.
21:59
[SPEAKER_07]: And there's so much given to Earth.
22:01
[SPEAKER_07]: So in 1976, when Jack Kirby creates the Celestials and we see them coming to Earth to experiment, creating the deviants, and the humans, and the internals, which are mythos we've all seen explored.
22:12
[SPEAKER_07]: We could take a character like Death who deserves her own episode.
22:15
[SPEAKER_07]: And she has her own mythology.
22:17
[SPEAKER_07]: There's things associated with her specifically, just like the Phoenix Force is associated with the White Hot Room and specific characters.
22:24
[SPEAKER_07]: We often see these entities choosing avatars
22:28
[SPEAKER_07]: We see the celestial's coming to Earth again and again, but also the things that they've created that are out of control both in this universe and in previous universes who come back to threaten our universe.
22:38
[SPEAKER_07]: So these concepts are used quite often and they interface a lot with characters again like Mr. Sinister as the Dominion or Franklin Richards.
22:44
[SPEAKER_07]: There's all these different ideas of that high concept, kind of creation, energy.
22:48
[SPEAKER_07]: Steve Orlando, even in the recent Scarlett Witchbooks, has brought both the griever at the end of all things and the Queen of Numbers in as big characters in his current of a world building for the Scarlett Witch who taps into the ideas of chaos.
23:01
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, when it comes to mutants, mutants are seen as kind of the next evolution, who that's what the Earth was created have evolved into all along.
23:09
[SPEAKER_07]: But we also see even in Stan and Jack books back at the beginning, humans are entitled to activate what they call the destiny force if they evolved themselves high enough.
23:18
[SPEAKER_07]: And you see that played out in the Cree scroll war and an Avengers forever.
23:22
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm kind of throwing a lot at the wall here, but there's a lot of really interesting concepts that are all worthy of longer exploration that are all on a similar theme.
23:29
[SPEAKER_07]: One of the most complex ones, and this is what I want to delve into you with a little bit out.
23:33
[SPEAKER_07]: Can you tell everyone what a demi-erge is?
23:35
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, the demi-erge.
23:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great.
23:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can, but I can't.
23:40
[SPEAKER_00]: No, sorry.
23:41
[SPEAKER_07]: You can also not.
23:41
[SPEAKER_07]: We describe the Phoenix Force.
23:43
[SPEAKER_07]: I can, but I can't.
23:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thrown for loop by the mention of the Destiny Force because that's actually one of the ones that's one of that big old, great kind of forces like the Prophoromodium.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the ones I've never actually got my sticky fingers on, so it never hurts.
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of coming along too.
24:00
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, the destiny was as Rick Jones ends the crease crawl war by just like freezing time, basically.
24:06
[SPEAKER_07]: Like they're like, oh, this is the human evolution potential.
24:08
[SPEAKER_07]: But Curtbucyic later picks up that theory in Avengers forever, hugely.
24:12
[SPEAKER_07]: Like it's a huge plot point in that 12 issue macro series, which is well worth it.
24:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've read that for that, but I long time ago.
24:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I was always planning to have sort of somebody go from new Avengers and into that.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: She's finding something called the living galaxy, and that's like,
24:27
[SPEAKER_00]: never had an option.
24:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like bringing it in, you know, in my little book.
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, I guess somewhere still destined to join the regular event just someday and then somebody's going to bring back this character to the kind of mansion that they were.
24:40
[SPEAKER_00]: The damage.
24:41
[SPEAKER_07]: This is weirdly a lot of things.
24:42
[SPEAKER_07]: The Phoenix in its way.
24:43
[SPEAKER_07]: It's an ultimate evolution that was there from the beginning, but also it's a modern case.
24:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're really going to sedemiate when I come with Thor, but originally the damage is from a Thor annual annual 10, like you want to say, which deals with a whole bunch of the other gods.
25:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially, it's, you know, Thor has to fight the Demagorge.
25:03
[SPEAKER_00]: This, you know, Demagorge gets this wild origin well.
25:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is bad, you know, the other god's having this this war and especially it's its catholids that are offering many other gods one like that original and your story is told they're only just if he it was in my interest to like have that be a lot of them but but imagine but a lot of them get killed in this in this war just eaten by the demon god.
25:26
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, so I took some of them to sum up really quickly for listeners when the when the current version of eternity manifests in
25:32
[SPEAKER_07]: It creates its own kind of primordial concepts, there's a lot of gods that exist at the time, there's a huge war, very similar to that, first cosmos between the aspirants and the says Celestials.
25:42
[SPEAKER_07]: Some of these gods become very playable characters, their entities, the Dr. Strange draws upon, or their characters like Chathon, who get locked in the mountain, and you know, possess people, and then write things like the darkhold, some of the elder gods go on to create other creatures who are also entities that used to get used
25:59
[SPEAKER_00]: These are things that confronts only, these are things that kind of come out of the cosmos, out of space, because alien plants have their own gods.
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: These are all things that come out of the earth as it's like one more deal, so bubbling, and the reason they come out of the earth is because this giant face appears in the sky and explaining himself.
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: or speaking or saying anything and just pulls up all of these old gods and then just hangs out on watches for a bit and eventually one of the other gods guy decides that there's been enough fighting in a very you know in this very mythological in sesty way but like novelize so we don't get it to all of all the ancestors that used to be in meds but yes he basically has the demiage kind of
26:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in print later with the first of the major gods that the secret gods like if the other gods like titans, this is like the first main god.
26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It is patterned after likes use and the titans are okay and these these sort of these very kind of great concepts.
26:57
[SPEAKER_07]: And Al's using this hugely in his recent run on Immortal Thor, by the way, right?
27:01
[SPEAKER_07]: With the kind of like Udgaard Loki in Toronto.
27:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Udgaards and we got this, it's in the edges.
27:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, it's another, it's just a place in Jordanheim.
27:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But the stores are giant.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It was retail by Roy Thomas, which, you know, makes it a fake game.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a frozen stuff.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of expanded, we got into a sort of another realm that sort of
27:24
[SPEAKER_00]: not around because like 10 runs, that's great 11 runs.
27:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's like I mean, it should be 9 runs and you know, I'm doing my bits have 9 runs to get for a while.
27:37
[SPEAKER_00]: you know it's it is now 10 rounds and like once it gets 11 times it's like that doesn't roll off the tongue so we've got it's not around it's sort of it's bigger than that it's with them and that it's it's another place and it's where all the gods live but to get back to the demiage I cannot stress enough how this is just a big face
27:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody really knows what it's about.
27:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody knows why it did it.
28:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody knows who it was working for.
28:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna stress her as both a removal, you know, mother rather is one standing.
28:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But also it was a...
28:09
[SPEAKER_00]: 47 year old man who's been around the block a few times, creatively, I don't think we should ever know what the deal is with the damage.
28:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's going to be some hit in gunsling it, you know, part of the new generation we're getting it's due Cosmic stuff right now, I don't know, pretty much the whole
28:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Immortal Thor, Bordal Thor, whatever, through that is cycle.
28:30
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably going to be my last big cosmic model thing just because you know I'm looking around me and there are so many just hungry young people Steve Holland is going to be very happy that I called him a hungry.
28:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad the new kids the new kids on the Bop they are much like
28:45
[SPEAKER_07]: Like it's much like it's very difficult to describe what the Phoenix Force is, is that the ultimate evolution of gene, is it the projected consciousness of all mutants, is it hope summers, is it a primordial concept, there's been recent stories that talk about how and I'll sum this up very quickly.
29:12
[SPEAKER_07]: We can then go on to become projected up to become the demirge, but Alex has recently kind of reclaimed that and said the demirge is not just one thing, it's a lot of things all at once.
29:21
[SPEAKER_07]: Which I think appropriate.
29:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been very important to a lot of people.
29:25
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a lot of fans.
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he should be going back into promosial time creating guy and then impregnating her.
29:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's very off-brand for the guy.
29:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's going to be demirge.
29:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean that okay, you know, you can't you can't have like more than people go back and be these these slightly weird myths That are like patterned after the myths of old which were slightly weird I don't think it does work in any good for him to like one day become the big face in the sky from Thor and you'll tell
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're going to plug Bitcoin and Demi Edge in the future and like whatever that is.
30:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody else but like because why would you want him to be?
30:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, there's a lot of wicked fans who are like, oh man, it's horrible that he's, uh, he's not the Demi.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's good.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It's good that he's not the Demi Edge anymore because I can't trust enough.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: The Demi Edge is weird.
30:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He
30:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird as hell.
30:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you what the Demiag is to me.
30:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you my Philippe Dick.
30:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he was on acid at the time.
30:26
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, there was a point where Philippe Dick was sort of writing, going out into a shack in the desert to write, yeah, in the office.
30:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And on the way out there, one day, he looked up into a gigantic hideous metal face, like in Tarsco, with metal, and the sky out of face.
30:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's quoted, there's this, like, a paragraph one quote from, okay, that way, if you basically, like, look, someone goes, oh, it was terrible.
30:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It was metal, it was evil, it was pure evil, and worst of all, it was God.
30:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, then, he went, and he wrote, the three-stick murder upon
31:03
[SPEAKER_07]: It felt okay to give everybody another infamous sci-fi writer.
31:06
[SPEAKER_07]: Take time to look at it.
31:07
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, brilliant.
31:07
[SPEAKER_07]: Diet and egg white.
31:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this, this face in the sky, the full cadict show.
31:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was like, he could take a tell story.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: But I still have a vision, but like, I don't.
31:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe he ever tried to explain it.
31:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like the person wrote this.
31:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not 100% sure if they didn't much else for Marvel.
31:23
[SPEAKER_00]: If they just like.
31:24
[SPEAKER_07]: Are you talking about Thor and your fans, specifically?
31:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I thought I knew it was testically.
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a remember who.
31:29
[SPEAKER_07]: The Thor Daniel 10 was written by Grunwald and Alan Zellinets, who both did a lot of this stuff at Mark.
31:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so they did a lot.
31:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so.
31:36
[SPEAKER_07]: But it is a very high concept.
31:38
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's look at these realms of gods as they exist.
31:42
[SPEAKER_07]: How does the Sguardian line play up against the Egyptian line?
31:47
[SPEAKER_07]: and it introduces again, the demigorge and the demirge and this idea of the elder's gods and this kind of high epic adventure, which is really fun.
31:56
[SPEAKER_07]: The demigorge first shows up in Thor 300, but that's also a marked-room walled story.
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's the demigorge.
32:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It should have been explained.
32:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it would really just lessen the punch to the concept if we found out that it was, you know,
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: The watch has built one or whatever.
32:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know I've been guilty.
32:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been guilty of that a lot.
32:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been guilty of like connecting a lot of like, you know, little bits of the Macano together and kind of creating spreading structure where once it was a big, a big beautiful, like super poetry.
32:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know, I am I am guilty, but this one thing.
32:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we leave it along.
32:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I got a lot.
32:31
[SPEAKER_07]: There is a consistency, and this is where I'll bring up our last topic here for today, at least, although we could talk for hours now.
32:36
[SPEAKER_07]: This is a consistency to the idea of ecosystems, right?
32:40
[SPEAKER_07]: Life deserves to exist, but life unchecked means that it squalches out other life.
32:45
[SPEAKER_07]: So death must be part of that concept as must change, because life needs to become something different as time goes by.
32:51
[SPEAKER_07]: And I sage happens on earth and species are wiped out, but that
32:57
[SPEAKER_07]: So one of the primordial concepts through all of this is the character of Galactus, who is the survivor of the previous universe, who then comes to our universe, and is attaching himself to something that called the power cosmic.
33:10
[SPEAKER_07]: Galactus does have a will.
33:12
[SPEAKER_07]: There is an entity within, there's a consciousness.
33:15
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a being that he used to be, and now this kind of elevated being, he's become.
33:20
[SPEAKER_07]: But he exists in a cosmic balance.
33:22
[SPEAKER_07]: He must wipe out planets,
33:26
[SPEAKER_07]: So we take a character like Galactus, we give him heralds, we give him mythology, and this is a very frequent more than the Celestials, more than eternity.
33:34
[SPEAKER_07]: This is a character that comes back again and again and again.
33:38
[SPEAKER_07]: So when you launched your ultimate book, you had the ultimate kind of trying to save the universe in a way because Galactus is consuming planets.
33:45
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's reset this being and create the life-bringer instead of the death-bringer.
33:49
[SPEAKER_07]: And of course Galactus ends up getting reset.
33:52
[SPEAKER_07]: We love the big visual of like, from the nature from the other universe has a dead Galactus as his, as his ship, right?
33:58
[SPEAKER_07]: We keep going higher concept and lower concept.
34:01
[SPEAKER_07]: What is it a character of Galactus that you think people latch on to so much?
34:04
[SPEAKER_07]: We're about to see this character.
34:06
[SPEAKER_07]: It'll come out before we release this, but the fantastic form movie is going to put this concept up on the big screen again.
34:11
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the reasons I did that to Galactus was because he'd been hit pretty hard.
34:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought by the notice in that like.
34:20
[SPEAKER_00]: the big over-correction against sincerity become almost a joke character kind of turn up and he'd like you be this big goofy guy who nobody would take seriously like I kind of thought well I'd be you know let's not have stories why guys just kind of so he'd plan it for well let's have stories why guys just like creates new planets and that's on the everybody's gonna deal with that and nobody nobody really picked up on that nobody really thought they were any interesting stories there which makes a me
34:44
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a story that lives in my brain from Mark Wade's run on FF where they devolve Galactus back into his human form and he's like hanging out on the human torch for a while.
34:53
[SPEAKER_07]: There's there's a lot of fun ways to treat this character.
34:55
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of stuff you can do with Dax's.
34:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Kim is very first appearance that it just sets the tone so much in terms of like this is something so immense.
35:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It can barely be confessed with the
35:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't beat him the only way that we even see him off to make him reconsider.
35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: The only way to make him see you as like anything other than like an Anna buzzing answer and that is for the human talks to go on this kind of journey into psychedelia, like he's kind of to become like this sort of curvy.
35:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Essences, which you know stem, stem tries to explain, but the best dog does is when the human talk comes back and stem just writes him like babbling and like trying to desperately communicate what he's seen and he can't, you know, if you 50 is not far into the book.
35:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really, in some ways, that their pairing has real trouble going that big again.
35:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, Marvel is all that's trouble going that big again and getting to that level.
35:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it's done to kind of come close with the, like, the origin of Galatas has to happen and thought because, you know, I only thought as big enough to handle it.
36:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they kind of read.
36:02
[SPEAKER_00]: They think of whether they, they rewrote a little bit because it's like, oh, well, he kind of flew into
36:09
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, that's not quite big enough so I'll actually an entire universe died and then like the life force of the universe like puncture man and yeah, finally we've got close to like something that could be the origin of scientists.
36:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So like Galactus is just huge and it's probably the first of those big
36:26
[SPEAKER_00]: huge things.
36:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where he falls in relation to eternity, but you know, one of these is Kirby, one of these is Dick.
36:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It turns out he is a puzzle that must be solved.
36:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a thing that has to be for it's not a thing that life is, it's too big to fight.
36:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a thing that is the end of a quest for understanding.
36:45
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, and if you, if you look at eternity is the manifested consciousness of the seventh cosmos, Galactus is the being left over from the sixth cosmos that is there to kind of put a counter on this ever expanding multiverse, because I Galactus exists in each multiverse, right?
37:00
[SPEAKER_07]: It is there to consume the planets in each one.
37:03
[SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, it's very high concept.
37:04
[SPEAKER_07]: A lot of my listeners and a lot of readers really struggle with high concept stuff like gods and realms and most souls in time traveled, but we also, this is the life blood of so many of our superhero stories.
37:15
[SPEAKER_07]: When we have writers like yourself who can do this high concept stuff well and make it make sense, it's so beautifully done.
37:22
[SPEAKER_07]: And sometimes I read a story where I'm like, oh, that was too much.
37:24
[SPEAKER_07]: Why did we have to have a council of cross time kings?
37:27
[SPEAKER_07]: Now my head hurts.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: it is interesting that like sort of I wasn't even thinking of it's another day in terms of like everything we've loaded on him since I was going like right back to that kind of first and it's like I see it's like the publishing history is the true cosmology it's like the kind of all this stuff we've woven around these characters it's almost
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is true for me.
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's true for all of the other creatives and there are a lot of the like, increasingly.
37:55
[SPEAKER_00]: As I do this stuff, I'm trying to express things about the publishing history, the history and all world of this.
38:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sort of attempting to kind of take that, this higher knowledge that we have of it.
38:06
[SPEAKER_00]: the kind of the history of the comics and sort of express it inside this fictional space.
38:12
[SPEAKER_07]: And we go to these places like the House of Ideas, the one above all.
38:16
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, let's even zoom way down into the microverse for a moment, which is one known within the concept.
38:21
[SPEAKER_07]: But there's this kind of power primordial that manifests as captain universe as you know as it goes through these different places.
38:28
[SPEAKER_07]: So this concept exists this kind of
38:31
[SPEAKER_07]: This interview is going to come out in September.
38:33
[SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be a company in my episode throughout the month where we discuss the book, Mystic, Arcana, which is kind of the Marvel magic rule book.
38:40
[SPEAKER_07]: We're also doing, I'm doing an interview with Matt Ruff, the author of Lovecraft stuff.
38:45
[SPEAKER_07]: And we're going to close the month out with the trial of Agatha Harkness, because we're going to talk a lot about a hike on today.
38:50
[SPEAKER_07]: magic things within the realm as well.
38:52
[SPEAKER_07]: I love throwing ideas like this at different listeners.
38:55
[SPEAKER_07]: As we're wrapping up, I'd love to hear any resonant thoughts you have, but I just want to re-emphasize what an enormous fan of yours.
39:01
[SPEAKER_07]: I am.
39:01
[SPEAKER_07]: I think it's a lot of high-concept with you.
39:04
[SPEAKER_07]: This is delicious.
39:05
[SPEAKER_07]: I appreciate you coming on.
39:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in.
39:08
[SPEAKER_00]: my immediate resonance thought that the thing that's popping around my skill right now is like you mentioned the microverse, the microverse, we can't use it.
39:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Well we can't but we can't because what we can't use is the micro-notes because the micro-notes are not owned by Marvel, they're something else that's that I feel like the last micro-notes come like was like it came out from image or something like
39:27
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but there's still playable characters.
39:29
[SPEAKER_07]: You just have different names, right?
39:30
[SPEAKER_07]: But the first volume is stuff.
39:32
[SPEAKER_07]: The first volume is more and more.
39:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Ends with the heroes like sacrificing themselves in order to allow the universe to reborn, which is very similar to the way that onslaught ends, right?
39:42
[SPEAKER_07]: Like on the heroes have to feed themselves to onslaught.
39:45
[SPEAKER_07]: So the Franklin Richards can create the new blue ball universe.
39:48
[SPEAKER_07]: And very similar to the secret wars.
39:50
[SPEAKER_07]: We have to fuel all the stuff to birth the 8th Cosmos, which is very similar to the Dominion, who has to consume all this life to give elements to something new.
40:00
[SPEAKER_07]: And those are all galactic stories as well.
40:02
[SPEAKER_07]: I think it's fascinating how it ties all together.
40:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just really interesting that, like, there are parts of novel that are now inaccessible maps that.
40:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just how does that sort of?
40:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we still have all of the left of suburb, we don't have room, but we do have the space that's, we don't have, like, the microphones, but we, I don't know if we have the vinegar for a slight brain name, but we have, you just can't call Ron Romanymore.
40:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
40:25
[SPEAKER_00]: He can't, he can't be like that boxy guy from like the toys, but the space lights are still around gold or a store and it's just really fascinating just to all kind of how this cosmology is so based on what did this, you know, when they imagine being like on this, this, this fictional plane of existence and attempting to kind of understand it all and this is, this is why, you know, a couple of times now I've had characters like me the one above all like that the kind of highest
40:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's important that like when they meet the one above all their answers they can fully comprehend because like, you know, if the one above all, like comes down to your level and gives you, you know, pet talk.
41:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Which happens a lot, but like that is, that works because it's the right.
41:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's working directly to the character.
41:11
[SPEAKER_00]: If the character's go to meet the one above all like in the house where it is in the place where my like that first rush with dogs.
41:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it should be this mind blowing.
41:20
[SPEAKER_00]: impossible to comprehend experience.
41:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be like fictional characters attempting to like kind of get a hand-load already out.
41:29
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I think I think listeners, you know, channeling every comment book, a book nerd I've ever met, they're going to go like, oh my god, why do we have to do things like the one above all?
41:37
[SPEAKER_07]: But then they're going to immediately follow that question with what so is there a one above the one above all?
41:44
[SPEAKER_07]: People want to stop them a lot more of it all the way is which is really interesting.
41:47
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the mystery.
41:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the mystery that it tricks a lot of all.
41:50
[SPEAKER_07]: The multiverse is one thing, but what we're doing out in there's multiple multiverses that make an omniverse.
41:56
[SPEAKER_07]: And then are there multiverses?
41:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I like, and I mean, I think my weight for this pick is my weight just like rope, you know, the one above all is Jack Kirby and in the process did all these amazing lines and one of them was like the mystery and truth, me and that really spoons me in terms of like, oh yeah, it's, you know, even this like highest possible being this sort of gold figure is like, no, honey, it's an old one, it's the like C.C.M.R.R, which wanted to kind of like,
42:23
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason why all of these stories being told.
42:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's pretty cool.
42:27
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, everyone, thank you so much for listening.
42:29
[SPEAKER_07]: A stay tuned in the latter half of this episode.
42:31
[SPEAKER_07]: We're going to have a script reading of some early Captain Britain adventures, with an all-queer cast based in London and Scotland.
42:38
[SPEAKER_07]: So a nice little palette cleanser after our high concept stuff today.
42:42
[SPEAKER_07]: Until we get into other worlds in the Captain Britain core, but we're not going to go there today.
42:45
[SPEAKER_07]: Al, where can people find you online?
42:47
[SPEAKER_07]: Is there anything you'd like to plug for September of 2025?
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I have.
42:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there is promotional for comic stuff.
42:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm an all-uneral comics and there's also like our gold all-uneral comics, which makes it sound like it should be promoting more comics than just by a desert.
43:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if we'll go to the title if he runs that filming.
43:07
[SPEAKER_07]: So like it's very much just a kind of... And as far as your model work, you've got Thor coming out.
43:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Is there anything else?
43:14
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah, more prepping for.
43:16
[SPEAKER_00]: There is, there is model thought understands at the moment, all you've had them by September will have.
43:23
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so bad.
43:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably, uh, September, let me think it's probably still all you've, it's either still all new venom.
43:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Or it's written to being called venom because we're going we're going legacy numbering because it's a big old it's issue 250 we're doing we're going back to the legacy number and it's like let's go back to that talking high concept we won't go there today, but we didn't even discuss the King in black.
43:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been announced as we speak, but definitely by September that Noll is back.
43:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I will let readers find out for themselves what falls back in.
44:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that's, that's probably the most interesting example of like a recent being big god guy added to like the Marvel Cosmology, the Marvels and Pantheon.
44:11
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably the closest thing we've had in a while so that kind of great old Jim
44:18
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of energy.
44:19
[SPEAKER_07]: I've really, I've really come all our apps and I'll kind of yeah another high concept character we'll talk about another time.
44:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like it.
44:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so evil.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great we need just because Thanos was always a little bit like him for the sofical and I mean I don't like
44:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanos to be two evil.
44:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So like two, you know, I'm obsessed with really evil evil.
44:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got to be evil but he's got to be that kind of like philosophical evil where he's also like tempting and he's also you know, he argues with you and all of this, but that needs to be somebody who's just full on and like me.
44:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not so nice, Greg.
44:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I could have found out.
45:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's getting to a stage where it's really sort of during like all the CN2 into some of these ideas and like recreations of some of these ideas.
45:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a fun one.
45:13
[SPEAKER_00]: People are weren't seeing is the people seem to be liking it more and more.
45:17
[SPEAKER_00]: The more it goes on.
45:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So presumably by September people will be really into it.
45:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's probably
45:28
[SPEAKER_07]: Make sure to check out Al's work and go back and look at Defenders Beyond and Ultimates as well.
45:32
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll what a joy to have you on today.
45:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you so much for your valuable time and thanks so much for watching.
45:38
[SPEAKER_07]: Stay tuned.
45:38
[SPEAKER_07]: We'll be back with Captain Britain in just a minute.
45:40
[SPEAKER_07]: All right, everybody.
45:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for sticking around.
45:42
[SPEAKER_07]: We are going to read through the next couple of installments of Captain
45:46
[SPEAKER_07]: written.
45:47
[SPEAKER_07]: Today we get to cover Captain Britain number three and four.
45:50
[SPEAKER_07]: Issue three is called Mayhem on a Monday morning.
45:53
[SPEAKER_07]: We've got Chris Claremont as the writer of course.
45:56
[SPEAKER_07]: Herb-trimpy on pencils, Fred Keeda on Inks, George Rusos on Colors, Irv, what's on a Beyond Letters and Larry Lieber, Stan's brother is the editor.
46:04
[SPEAKER_07]: This book was published in October 1976.
46:07
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm Chad Anderson and I will be playing your narrator.
46:09
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm James Lee Campbell and I'll be Captain Britson.
46:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm Giza Garble.
46:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll be playing Di Thomas, Women, Dora, and Sandy York.
46:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, my name is Robin Muffer.
46:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be Charlie, bug number one, and the in-domitable Courtney Ross.
46:24
[SPEAKER_06]: I am Ben Gearing, and I'll be playing Jaco Tanna, bug two, and Royce.
46:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm Christian Smith, and I'll be playing the manager, and Hurricane.
46:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Hurricane is something we'll get there.
46:37
[SPEAKER_07]: on the cover of this book and as a reminder these little Captain Britain books what only be about eight page stories usually one page is not colored which is very odd there's little Captain Britain fund page somewhere and then the other parts of the book are all reprints so these two stories we're going to do are each just eight pages.
46:53
[SPEAKER_07]: On the cover of Captain Britain No.
46:54
[SPEAKER_07]: 3, we see Captain Britain gripping his battle staff in both hands.
46:58
[SPEAKER_07]: He jumps off a roof at a group of armed and armored bank robbers, all dressed in green and gold and firing laser pistols.
47:05
[SPEAKER_07]: Several of the robbers are knocked unconscious in the broken window behind him.
47:09
[SPEAKER_07]: Armed cops are hiding behind a cop car and it's two-meter firing at Captain Britain, they yell.
47:15
[SPEAKER_07]: The place is teaming with copas.
47:20
[SPEAKER_07]: The story mayhem on a Monday morning.
47:23
[SPEAKER_07]: There had been no warning.
47:24
[SPEAKER_07]: One moment, it was an average Monday morning at the Chambers St.
47:27
[SPEAKER_07]: Bank, also labeled Barclays Bank.
47:29
[SPEAKER_07]: The main floor crowded with the usual mixture of TEMS University students and dark yard laborers and the next instant, all hell breaks loose.
47:38
[SPEAKER_07]: We see an image of Captain Britain on the horizon as armed bank robbers storm a bank where Brian Braddock just happened to be.
47:44
[SPEAKER_07]: He's dressed in a white button down shirt, brown jacket, and brown pants, the civilians in the bank are panicking.
47:49
[SPEAKER_05]: There's men, they're smashing through here like something at a co-jack.
47:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Perhaps in Britain could stop this.
47:54
[SPEAKER_05]: So long as I'm in my Brian Braddock identity, I'm helpless.
47:57
[SPEAKER_02]: My god, it's a robbery!
47:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Redout mates, take everyone here hostage.
48:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And if anyone gives any trouble, let them have it.
48:04
[SPEAKER_05]: But I must try to stop them.
48:05
[SPEAKER_05]: I must.
48:06
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll go for the leader and hope he's not ready to face a murder charge.
48:10
[SPEAKER_02]: What, they're trying to play the hero a kid?
48:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's fine by me.
48:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Because your skull is going to get trapped.
48:15
[SPEAKER_07]: Brian Braddock rushes at the leader only to get a gun butts to the head.
48:19
[SPEAKER_07]: The bank manager is concerned.
48:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, if anyone else steps out of line, they'll get a bullet instead of a rifle, but do I make myself clear?
48:28
[SPEAKER_02]: You!
48:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You call us if you kill the stats.
48:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't missed a manager and all my trade better than that.
48:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, everyone except the manager get up to the front of the bank.
48:38
[SPEAKER_02]: You're all our insurance because if anyone starts shooting, you lot will be the first to go.
48:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Come with me, Mr. downstairs to the main security vault and the million quitting gold stored down there.
48:49
[SPEAKER_06]: There are cop calls coming, somebody must have tricked a silent alarm.
48:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Last, there was supposed to be a diversion to keep the police occupied.
48:56
[SPEAKER_02]: What's gone wrong?
48:57
[SPEAKER_07]: Nothing really, the diversion went off as planned, drawing the attention of nearly all of this self-work division.
49:03
[SPEAKER_07]: Unfortunately, the assault groups hadn't reckoned with ACID or criminal investigation division, flying squad on roaming commission out of Scotland yard, pure bad luck.
49:12
[SPEAKER_07]: No more no less, but that's the way it goes sometimes.
49:15
[SPEAKER_07]: One of the thugs fires a gun, Fizzac blowing up a car as the coppers rush for cover.
49:19
[SPEAKER_07]: About all you men get to come off, at the double!
49:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't matter, any though.
49:24
[SPEAKER_02]: We may have planned this job to go down peacefully, but we're more than willing to make a fight of it if we have to.
49:29
[SPEAKER_07]: Inside, Brian Radik is waking up.
49:31
[SPEAKER_05]: We're wondering never through anything that's silly again.
49:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my head, wait, my plan.
49:35
[SPEAKER_05]: It worked.
49:36
[SPEAKER_05]: The robbers have crowded everyone to the front of the bank, leaving me alone back here in the shadows.
49:40
[SPEAKER_05]: where I'm free to change to Captain Britain with no one being the wiser.
49:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Funny, all it takes is a touch of my amulet and a mental image of the ring of dark more stones and presto into the UK's one-only superhero, Captain Britain.
49:54
[SPEAKER_05]: If only I was sure I won the job.
49:56
[SPEAKER_07]: Now in full costume, Captain Britain launches at the closest thug, hitting him in the head, Swach.
50:01
[SPEAKER_05]: And yet, I can't stand idly by while innocent people's lives are threatened, not while over the power to help them.
50:07
[SPEAKER_05]: So help them I shall, beginning right now.
50:10
[SPEAKER_07]: Images fast and furious, hammering at the minds and senses of the people caught in the sudden vicious firefight.
50:16
[SPEAKER_07]: In the bank, tellers and patrons, huddled on the floor, some screaming, some sobbing, as bullets zip overhead.
50:21
[SPEAKER_07]: Pow, pow, burp, pow, all praying for this nightmare to end.
50:25
[SPEAKER_07]: On the street, a BBC film crew trying to get some footage, trying to stay out of the way, trying to stay simply alive.
50:32
[SPEAKER_07]: And finally, the police helplessly outgunned the pistols of the few special branch officers authorized to use firearms, no match for the Raiders' automatic weapons.
50:40
[SPEAKER_07]: Meanwhile Captain Britain leaps to the upper floor and dislodges his battles stave.
50:45
[SPEAKER_05]: The police are having a rough time, but maybe I can even the odds of it.
50:49
[SPEAKER_05]: With all this shooting its numerical no one has yet been heard, but even miracles can't last forever.
50:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I've got to hit the robbers hard and fast, disorganise them before they have a chance to turn their guns on the hostages.
51:00
[SPEAKER_04]: But, I mean, number 7 behind us!
51:02
[SPEAKER_05]: That's here's it.
51:03
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been spotted.
51:04
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a silence these two before they can sound a warning.
51:06
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll start shooting in my direction.
51:08
[SPEAKER_05]: After all, I'm not bulletproof.
51:10
[SPEAKER_05]: And the only way to stop them is to use my trusty quarter stuff again as a high-power javolin.
51:14
[SPEAKER_05]: And hope this trick works as well today as it did when I fought the river.
51:18
[SPEAKER_07]: The hero throws his staff knocking both men through the window.
51:21
[SPEAKER_07]: Scabash, outside Chief Inspector Diatomas is looking in.
51:25
[SPEAKER_07]: Chief Inspector Thomas.
51:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Look, I've got eyes, haven't I, Royce?
51:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Since this is one bank job, Vix and Smob isn't going to get away with.
51:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Wonder which police unit got in sight to stop them.
51:36
[SPEAKER_07]: Sorry chief inspector, but it isn't a police unit at all.
51:39
[SPEAKER_07]: Nearly a superhero, but in this case that's enough.
51:42
[SPEAKER_07]: He hits two more thugs.
51:43
[SPEAKER_07]: Perfect.
51:44
[SPEAKER_05]: These are the last of the hoodlums, I think.
51:46
[SPEAKER_07]: I, uh, wrong Brian, one has a gun right behind you, and the blast nearly hits you.
51:51
[SPEAKER_07]: Fizzac.
51:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who or what you are, Boyle, but you've mucked up one of the Vixen's biggest operations.
51:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And Vixen is a lady who don't take kindly to people who get in our way, which means hero.
52:02
[SPEAKER_02]: In case you ain't figured it out by now, that I've got to kill you.
52:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that so, my friend?
52:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Caption breaking eats.
52:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, pretty hooks like you for breakfast.
52:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, Penny Hoots.
52:12
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, quarterstaff to the gut, foul to the wrist, come at to the head, Brock.
52:16
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the spirit, Brian.
52:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Lost a verbal providence of mask the pain in your side from the blasters near Miss.
52:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Face it, Shums.
52:23
[SPEAKER_05]: If you hadn't sensed it coming at the last instant in the dodge, but I suppose if one wants to be a superhero, those are the risk one take.
52:29
[SPEAKER_05]: You're finished, friend.
52:30
[SPEAKER_05]: But I have a final word before I turn you over to the police.
52:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Tell your boss the Vixen to expect me, because I'll be coming after her neck.
52:38
[SPEAKER_07]: The thugs are defeated.
52:39
[SPEAKER_07]: And in come the coppers.
52:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't count on that if I were you mate, and if you're wondering who I am, the name's Die Thomas.
52:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Chief Inspector CID and as far as you're concerned, Captain Britain, I'm one court who dislikes super vigilantes as much as the dislikes super villains.
52:58
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought I was one of the good guys, but obviously he doesn't.
53:02
[SPEAKER_07]: Thus, a faithful meeting of foes is postponed by a skeptical minion of the law.
53:06
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a long day.
53:07
[SPEAKER_07]: Our spent at the crime scene more hours of interrogation and diatomis' office at Scotland Yard.
53:14
[SPEAKER_07]: Until at the end, cap isn't sure precisely who is under investigation.
53:18
[SPEAKER_07]: The criminals are the superhero.
53:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Finally, though, they let him go, and after a quick back alley change, Brian Brannick makes his way across the river to the grounds of Tim's University, deciding on impulse to stop at the school's official pub.
53:29
[SPEAKER_07]: The Flying Finish, Dora, the bartender, greets him as he walks in to the dingy pub, where model planes hang from the ceiling, Brian wears a button-up shirt, blue jacket, black pants.
53:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Brian Love.
53:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen you around yet.
53:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't do she is.
53:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Hello, Dora.
53:44
[SPEAKER_05]: How's business?
53:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Can't complain.
53:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Courtney Ross was asking for you.
53:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Nice girl, Courtney.
53:50
[SPEAKER_03]: You should take her at some time, Brian.
53:53
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, come off at Dora.
53:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Courtney can have her pick of any man in school.
53:56
[SPEAKER_05]: What was she want with me?
53:57
[SPEAKER_07]: Why not ask her Brian?
53:59
[SPEAKER_07]: She's only a few tables away.
54:00
[SPEAKER_07]: Courtney nearby has a thick head of brunette hair and hoop earrings.
54:04
[SPEAKER_07]: She's feeling frustrated at the brash Jaco Tanner, chugging a beer as he flirts with her.
54:09
[SPEAKER_07]: He's got curly brown hair and orange turtleneck and a green button up shirt.
54:13
[SPEAKER_07]: On her other side is Sandy York, full shirt, tie and jacket wearing thick glasses.
54:17
[SPEAKER_07]: His light blonde hair in a mod boy cut.
54:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Brian Braddock is a spinoist wind, and that's hilarious to it.
54:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Jacko Tana, you make one more crack about Brian and I'm going to forget I'm a lady.
54:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we're all going to the Flipp, so he said don't laugh.
54:34
[SPEAKER_05]: I love it so much.
54:35
[SPEAKER_03]: You see, you were a lady and I was like, I don't know what you're doing.
54:39
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
54:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Composure.
54:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Composure.
54:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, fuck.
54:43
[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
54:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Forget it.
54:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, come to the gigos.
54:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't.
54:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, now we're all going to the fixed, right?
54:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So I have 800 characters this time.
54:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, Courtney.
54:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I hear the film was a fourth form for Cadbury.
55:00
[SPEAKER_03]: You sure Jacka will be able to understand it?
55:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You shut up, Sandi York.
55:05
[SPEAKER_02]: What I said to Jacko goes for you, too.
55:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there's Brian.
55:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Brian.
55:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
55:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, hello, Courtney.
55:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, the bunch of us are going to the cinema.
55:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you like to come along?
55:17
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't, I'm afraid.
55:18
[SPEAKER_05]: I have a lot of work to catch up on.
55:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I see.
55:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe next time, then.
55:22
[SPEAKER_06]: but there won't be an exciting, no Jackie Tanner has anything to say about it so long and be one of these days, Tanner, you'll push me too far.
55:29
[SPEAKER_05]: I have loved to join in to Courtney and I'm still weak from today's battle.
55:32
[SPEAKER_07]: That's enough of Brian Braddock for this issue as we turn our attention to Hansler Way to a shabby industrial street off of Heathrow.
55:40
[SPEAKER_07]: A man in a newsboy cap turtleneck and trench coat and he's selling peeps.
55:45
[SPEAKER_07]: A rolled-up newspaper in his hand with the headline, Captain Britain strikes again, Britain's own superhero smashes bank mob.
55:51
[SPEAKER_07]: Hey, Pa!
55:52
[SPEAKER_07]: It's well, Trump.
55:53
[SPEAKER_07]: Now push off.
55:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it will salt me at your peril, but what's this?
55:58
[SPEAKER_04]: If this story is true, perhaps I won't have to travel to America.
56:01
[SPEAKER_07]: After all,
56:02
[SPEAKER_07]: The man who's faster now has gait that of someone half his age as he enters the long deserted warehouse and reveals there's more foot here than meets the eye.
56:10
[SPEAKER_07]: This frightening looking man rips his stage makeup and coat off revealing a very fit body underneath.
56:16
[SPEAKER_07]: Meet Albert Potter.
56:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Ah, it's good to be free of this foul disguise.
56:20
[SPEAKER_04]: But my words, the day is coming when I will no longer have to skulk about in the show streets like some outcast.
56:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And more, those who hunt me now will soon flee from my vengeance and my power.
56:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Subway, Captain Britain, review our Britain's super hero.
56:36
[SPEAKER_04]: It is only fitting that you'll be destroyed by our first super villain.
56:39
[SPEAKER_04]: How do I cane?
56:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Just the beginning to be continued right now.
56:44
[SPEAKER_07]: We jump to Captain Britain number four in our of the hurricane, writer Chris Claremont, herb-trimpy on pencils, Fred Kaida on Inks, Marie Severans on colors here with Erwutonomy, Unletters, and Larry Leiber, the editor.
56:56
[SPEAKER_07]: On the cover, meet the hurricane, a bulky supervillain and an all-black costume, with yellow striations on the ankles and wrists, a massive apostrophe looking design on the chest, a yellow electric mark down the center of the mask.
57:08
[SPEAKER_07]: The eyes glowing red, he's generating hurricane winds all around him as Captain Britain's caught in the wind, his quarter-staff in hand, behind him civilians, cars, and debris are all caught up in the wind.
57:18
[SPEAKER_07]: Morning, the autumn sun is not yet risen over the Thames' estuary, the sprawling city of London lies still in quiet and pre-dawn darkness.
57:25
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a private time, the world poised between sleep and wakefulness, much as a young physicist turned superhero, hangs poised 15 feet above the floor of Tim's University's gymnasium.
57:36
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a time for dreaming and soul-searching, Captain Britain has his quarter-staff balanced on a balanced beam as he suspends himself in the air high above it.
57:43
[SPEAKER_05]: After a week cooped up in classrooms and physical labs, it's good to get into a selection again, even though my opponents are only a vaulting horse, the old balance beam, and parallel bars.
57:52
[SPEAKER_05]: It's strange, almost frightening, the ease with which I've adapted to life as a superhero.
57:56
[SPEAKER_05]: As if I've been doing this for years, instead of only a month.
57:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, time to return to reality.
58:01
[SPEAKER_05]: People will soon be up in a bow.
58:03
[SPEAKER_05]: And it wouldn't do for Captain Britain to be seen exercising in a gym reserve by Brian Braddock.
58:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Blast, someone else has the door, and from their sound they're about to come in.
58:11
[SPEAKER_05]: If I wait till I land to switch her densies, my secret will be out.
58:13
[SPEAKER_05]: I have no choice.
58:14
[SPEAKER_05]: I must change midair and hope that Brian, who's far less than a superhero, can survive the landing.
58:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Bullying his annual enough, Brian switches back to his school uniform.
58:22
[SPEAKER_07]: The open blue shirt and blue pants over at white shirt.
58:25
[SPEAKER_07]: and falls to the ground, fump me and wearing the same school uniforms, in walks Jaco Tanner and his two flunkies.
58:32
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, what have we, what goes, Braddock?
58:35
[SPEAKER_06]: You figure this be the first in the queue for the 1980 Olympic team?
58:39
[SPEAKER_06]: How reckless.
58:40
[SPEAKER_06]: A delicate chat like you working out with all this dangerous equipment.
58:44
[SPEAKER_06]: Why?
58:44
[SPEAKER_06]: You might have been her.
58:45
[SPEAKER_07]: Jaco fixed concern with sarcasm and offers to help brighten up.
58:49
[SPEAKER_05]: Take your hands off me, Jack O'Tanner.
58:51
[SPEAKER_06]: Goodness, such poor hostility from our madman address than genius.
58:55
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm warning you, Tanner.
58:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Stop taunting me, or one of these days, I'll... You're what?
58:59
[SPEAKER_06]: You're nothing, that's what?
59:00
[SPEAKER_06]: You'll merely turn on your heel, walk away.
59:03
[SPEAKER_06]: See what I mean?
59:04
[SPEAKER_06]: Your problem-brain is that yours predictable as you are, Gap.
59:07
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a coward.
59:08
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what they think I am.
59:09
[SPEAKER_05]: And a weakling.
59:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Just because I won't fight them.
59:12
[SPEAKER_05]: But none of them knows what happened to my parents, or of the vow I made to them.
59:15
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't oats uttering long.
59:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no.
59:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
59:19
[SPEAKER_05]: It was just a little oats.
59:21
[SPEAKER_05]: It was an oath after the long before the birth of Captain Britain.
59:24
[SPEAKER_07]: As Brian walks away brooding, Courtney Ross rushes after him wearing a purple business dress with an orange fastener at the neck.
59:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I, in, hey, Ryan Braddock.
59:33
[SPEAKER_02]: What?
59:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, hello, Courtney.
59:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, yourself, John.
59:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Sandy York told me you'd be here.
59:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought if you hadn't eaten yet, you might like to join me for breakfast.
59:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to.
59:42
[SPEAKER_07]: The two of them start off across the university grounds, blissfully unaware that this quiet, beautiful November morning has but a few moments more to spare.
59:50
[SPEAKER_07]: Nearby, the super powerful hurricane flies through the air and crashes into the school buildings, emitting as much destruction as possible.
59:57
[SPEAKER_04]: For them, hear me people of London, and the wear, for I am the voice of doom and destruction I am hurricane!
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Courtney, look out!
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And I am here to destroy Captain Britain!
1:00:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Excellent!
1:00:12
[SPEAKER_04]: My thrusters are propelling me at an incredible speed, and my speed, combined with my invincible body armour, make me human battery ram!
1:00:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, I'll try my wrist blasters!
1:00:21
[SPEAKER_04]: They're even better than I hoped.
1:00:23
[SPEAKER_04]: They focused the full force of a full blown hurricane into a beam, mere inches in diameter, giving me the power to shatter a skyscraper, as easily as I destroy this car.
1:00:35
[SPEAKER_07]: More on a Christian's mere inches of diameter in human battering ram later, a wind blast shatters of vehicle shabow when the beams are of vest.
1:00:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I create a suction of irresistible report.
1:00:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I was so close, so close, but she said he's not going to stop for you by grandma profile at me.
1:01:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And when the beams are reversed, they create a suction of irresistible proportions.
1:01:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Those fools at the institute, they all ridiculed by theories, they call me a madman, they all mocked over.
1:01:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I am the master of a force that dwarfs the strongest h-bomb, the most powerful irresistible force though demand, or nature, a rampaging hurricane.
1:01:25
[SPEAKER_07]: More focused wins, come back, scram, entire sections of buildings are disappearing.
1:01:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Ryan, what's going on?
1:01:32
[SPEAKER_02]: That man, what are I?
1:01:33
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know Courtney, but his power blaster ripping the university apart.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_05]: You stay here.
1:01:38
[SPEAKER_05]: There may be people trapped for injured in the wreckage.
1:01:40
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going back to help them.
1:01:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I hate to leave Courtney.
1:01:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Even on the periphery of the ground, she isn't danger from Hurricane.
1:01:45
[SPEAKER_05]: All of us are.
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_05]: It's only a matter of time before his blast winds start killing people, unless someone stops in first and it can't be the police.
1:01:52
[SPEAKER_05]: They're no match for Hurricane.
1:01:53
[SPEAKER_05]: So, like it or not, the job falls too.
1:01:55
[SPEAKER_07]: Ryan puts his amulet back on, summoning his costume and quarter-saf.
1:01:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Captain Britain, a card touch hurricane while he's hovering above one of his bootjets, which makes this the time to put my morning workout to use and pole volt up to the foes level, and I hope a kick to the solar plexus in midair, shock and hurricane falls to the ground below the fam with Captain Britain right behind him.
1:02:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Good morning, lovely weather we're having until you came along.
1:02:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Captain Britain.
1:02:20
[SPEAKER_05]: The one and only.
1:02:21
[SPEAKER_05]: I crossed out what you expected.
1:02:23
[SPEAKER_04]: All and more, but yet, nothing else.
1:02:26
[SPEAKER_04]: My body armor absorbed the impact of my fall leaving me free.
1:02:29
[SPEAKER_04]: To attack, how does it feel to be hit by the full fury of hurricanes winds?
1:02:34
[SPEAKER_05]: To be brutally honest, my friend.
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_05]: It hurts.
1:02:36
[SPEAKER_07]: A wind blasts the hero into the wild, the memorial gyms scow and the war breaks behind him.
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_07]: Wham?
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Jacko and his buddies are still inside.
1:02:43
[SPEAKER_06]: Jacko.
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_06]: I see in Charlie.
1:02:45
[SPEAKER_06]: Is that Captain Britain the papers were writing about?
1:02:48
[SPEAKER_06]: What should we do in here?
1:02:49
[SPEAKER_05]: Friends, say if you're worth a skin jack-o, I'm wondering why you've others, but I better get back to Hurricane fast before, oh no, here it comes.
1:02:56
[SPEAKER_07]: Imagine if you will a hurricane, 10 meters high and 30 meters wide, swirling in the center of the university's grounds, with winds and excess of 200 knots and in the center of the vortex.
1:03:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Secure and protected by the dead calm of the storm's eyes stands a lone laughing madman facing the raging winds Brian launches on his quarterstaff directly into the storm kicking Hurricane right in the face Only one way to reach Hurricane a pole vault but my jump has to be perfect because if I missed the storms I ain't get caught in by those winds it worked you that's impossible you you couldn't wrong I could and I did
1:03:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I tripped you captain, sned you in my wings, you will never escape.
1:03:38
[SPEAKER_05]: He's right, wind, rain always strongest right around the eye, blasted elements hammering at me, smashing me down.
1:03:44
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't take much more of this.
1:03:46
[SPEAKER_07]: The battle's quickly done, and a hero lies defeated, Captain Britain falls to the ground.
1:03:51
[SPEAKER_07]: I beats him.
1:03:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my first outing, I destroyed Captain Eombs and Eliseo Beiro with hardly any effort.
1:03:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I just want to destroy all those who dare oppose me.
1:04:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Today, it was Captain Britain tomorrow.
1:04:04
[SPEAKER_04]: It will be all mankind.
1:04:06
[SPEAKER_07]: Non-don-don-don, to be continued next time in Captain Britain number five.
1:04:12
[SPEAKER_07]: Alright, this is a delightfully silly, uh, really about brand-brandtic hooking up with Hurricane with
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_07]: but we introduce a lot of characters here that aren't really important to the Captain Britain stories to follow.
1:04:26
[SPEAKER_07]: So that first couple of issues is the setup, he gets his powers, fights that ridiculous supervillain that we met last time, and today now he faces his first very serious supervillain thread.
1:04:36
[SPEAKER_07]: Welcome to this delicious cast of people.
1:04:38
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's talk a little bit about this story and some of the things that stood out to each of you.
1:04:43
[SPEAKER_07]: One of the characters that we meet in this story, who feels like a little character, is Inspector Chief Inspector Dyt Thomas.
1:04:48
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, Dyt Thomas goes on to have a pretty long life in Excalibur and other books.
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_07]: I think has nearly 70 appearances over the years.
1:04:56
[SPEAKER_07]: I guess what was it like to play this detective at Scotland Yard?
1:05:00
[SPEAKER_07]: And is Scotland Yard a place you've ever been?
1:05:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I've never been to Scotland, John, and I'd like to keep it that way for that.
1:05:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they had all of two lines in this, so there wasn't a lot to explore, but now that I know that those more to come, or at least explore, or explore more, that's going to be fun.
1:05:20
[SPEAKER_07]: Really fun character.
1:05:21
[SPEAKER_07]: I know you got to play a can't be super villain last time, but today was a smattering of roles.
1:05:25
[SPEAKER_07]: My favorite was your role is Dorada, the bartender.
1:05:28
[SPEAKER_07]: That was a really fun
1:05:30
[SPEAKER_03]: There was something just, me and Doris, Doris spoke to me spiritually, really.
1:05:36
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something of it being a bartender that just collects.
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_03]: The humor in the writing has really come out in a lot of the narration parts, but also just little things specifically Captain Britain is saying to himself.
1:05:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I think our hilarious.
1:05:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And his head is so sarcastic.
1:05:55
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a hurricane saying that all of the power of the hurricane, how does it feel, and then he says, actually, it hurts.
1:06:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:06:03
[SPEAKER_07]: I can't do that.
1:06:04
[SPEAKER_08]: I guess.
1:06:06
[SPEAKER_07]: So Doran works in a pub called the Flying Finish.
1:06:09
[SPEAKER_07]: Do any of you have a local pub that has this kind of vibe?
1:06:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you used to, but I was growing up as a deer.
1:06:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it was a car.
1:06:15
[SPEAKER_04]: It was called the Plobsums, and it was one of those pubs, where if the rain, if a stranger walked in, everyone turned.
1:06:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It was awful.
1:06:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Back on it, it was awful, but yeah, it imagined the Queen Vic, just with really bad cultures like that sense.
1:06:31
[SPEAKER_02]: There's like so many, maybe this is just glass we didn't being alcoholics, but there's like every single pub is like this in Glasgow.
1:06:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I grew up next to one that all of my family drank out.
1:06:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I was too young to go.
1:06:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I just remember going past it.
1:06:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It was called paperack and everyone who just came out of it.
1:06:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, they don't look like a, they look like a Disney villain.
1:06:49
[SPEAKER_02]: That was my conception of the
1:06:53
[SPEAKER_07]: This bar of the flying finished the only time we ever see it again is an Excalibur number five, which is many years later.
1:06:58
[SPEAKER_07]: So Claremont did his homework and brought that back at another story.
1:07:02
[SPEAKER_07]: We also meet or get referenced an incredible character called The Vixen in this story.
1:07:07
[SPEAKER_07]: She's not seen yet.
1:07:08
[SPEAKER_07]: Vixen is this just kind of like sexy, solitary gang leader who has some really wild stories.
1:07:14
[SPEAKER_07]: We'll meet her as time goes by.
1:07:16
[SPEAKER_07]: But Robin, what was it like to play?
1:07:18
[SPEAKER_07]: Vixen's thug number one.
1:07:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, again, to be sub number one, honestly, I would like to thank my mother for all the work that she put in that led me to the place.
1:07:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel honored and privileged to be sub number one, supporting Ross, whatever, sub number one, that's the best.
1:07:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the best.
1:07:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
1:07:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I was actually really fun getting to see a little reference to the Vixim's really cool, because I read all the Vix Galliber.
1:07:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It was really fun to see that.
1:07:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I really hope that she shows up as we continue to read on.
1:07:46
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, she doesn't.
1:07:47
[SPEAKER_07]: Vixen is a reference to a whole bunch, but she doesn't actually show up until a story called in a title called Daredevil's number nine into 1983.
1:07:55
[SPEAKER_07]: It's seven years before you get the care out.
1:07:58
[SPEAKER_07]: But she goes on to have quite an extensive history.
1:08:00
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, she shows up like 12 times over the years, but she's kind of unforgettable.
1:08:04
[SPEAKER_07]: We of course meet the delightful Courtney Ross.
1:08:07
[SPEAKER_07]: I've done an episode on Courtney out on the show if you want to go give it a listen.
1:08:12
[SPEAKER_07]: Courtney Ross has an alternate double that turns into Opel Luna Satter 9.
1:08:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm obsessed with Courtney Ross.
1:08:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're seeing her here where she is just like the generic girlfriend character.
1:08:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's not really developed as much when she shows up in Excalibur.
1:08:26
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like a boss of a bank.
1:08:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And she is like, she is a dumb bitch.
1:08:30
[SPEAKER_02]: She is there to step on Brian Braddock's balls.
1:08:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas here she's just like, oh, I hope you'll go to the cinema with me.
1:08:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, babe, you can do so much better than this slab of meat.
1:08:41
[SPEAKER_07]: But Mary Kill, Brian Braddock, Jack O'Tanner, and Sandy York.
1:08:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I hate you, and I'm not answering that, but I guess I'm going to have to fuck Captain Britain because it's the least festival.
1:08:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll marry Sandy York because he's a nerd, he's going to get into like software development, he's going to have money and Jack O'Tanner, he'll cause he's going to die in a barfe anyway, whatever.
1:09:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate the intimacy.
1:09:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
1:09:05
[SPEAKER_07]: He shows up about 12 times, mostly in Captain Britain and some later stories.
1:09:09
[SPEAKER_07]: And then welcome back, what was it like to play a thug and then a bully?
1:09:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, I cannot relate at all.
1:09:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Jack was kind of your typical thug, where it's just fun to see Brian so over this guy and Courtney also so, but they all kind of keep him around at the same time.
1:09:29
[SPEAKER_07]: He's giving a mouth away with like crab and goil, kind of following or half of the time.
1:09:34
[SPEAKER_07]: If you guys know those references, James, if we consider Brian Braddock to journey, this is very honest history.
1:09:40
[SPEAKER_07]: We start to see a little bit of reference.
1:09:42
[SPEAKER_07]: He mentions, for example, a promise that he made his parents, but we don't know what that means.
1:09:46
[SPEAKER_07]: Just yet, we'll get to that story relatively down the line.
1:09:49
[SPEAKER_07]: As we continue through this, parents met a tragic end at the hands of a deadly super computer and his fathers insane.
1:09:56
[SPEAKER_07]: We'll get there.
1:09:57
[SPEAKER_07]: We haven't met his two children.
1:09:59
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, it's a hero in some spoilers, it's fair.
1:10:01
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so.
1:10:02
[SPEAKER_05]: There's however, I'm not overly obeyed with Captain Britain.
1:10:06
[SPEAKER_05]: So, and what I'm deciding to do is I'm not going to read ahead.
1:10:10
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to go on the journey with him, discover him as we go, because I'm one of those wanky actors that love a journey.
1:10:17
[SPEAKER_05]: We loved it.
1:10:18
[SPEAKER_05]: I love discovery.
1:10:19
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, I'm piecing this character together, bit by bit.
1:10:22
[SPEAKER_05]: And then when I read that bit yesterday on the about his parents, I was like, this, oh, I could Google.
1:10:28
[SPEAKER_05]: No, don't.
1:10:28
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's wait till we discover it.
1:10:31
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, if we consider, you know, he had this first national battle as we begin here, he's now developed kind of national fame and the complications of being a superhero or starting to set in.
1:10:41
[SPEAKER_07]: He disrupts a bank robbery, but the police don't trust him.
1:10:44
[SPEAKER_07]: He's obsessed with the secret identity and like balancing it all with his life as a student.
1:10:49
[SPEAKER_07]: Even that moment where he's in the gym, and he has the power enhancements, but then when people are walking and he's like, Oh, I better shift back and he has to fall to the floor.
1:10:57
[SPEAKER_07]: It also cracks me up.
1:10:58
[SPEAKER_07]: I just have to put my amulet and think of this ancient mythical site, and then I automatically turn it to Captain Britain.
1:11:03
[SPEAKER_07]: There's some fun things.
1:11:04
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a silly story, but when you start to appease this character together, there's a lot of...
1:11:08
[SPEAKER_07]: care given to his, I don't know, Peter Parker like development a little bit.
1:11:12
[SPEAKER_05]: And there's lots of, he's very complex in that in that sense, isn't he?
1:11:16
[SPEAKER_05]: I relate to, it's like living the jewel like and it's nice to be kind of tapping and tapping into this early because my exposure to Brian is more in later years, much later comics, where he's really established.
1:11:29
[SPEAKER_05]: So what's been really nice is like, I'm going through a retrospective of Brian Black Braddock and I'm really enjoying seeing that and the Peter Park
1:11:38
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'm Captain Britain.
1:11:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I can do whatever the hell.
1:11:40
[SPEAKER_05]: I want this one.
1:11:41
[SPEAKER_05]: He's literally like, oh, I'm not sure if I can do this.
1:11:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, wait.
1:11:44
[SPEAKER_05]: I can do this.
1:11:44
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm really enjoying this.
1:11:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I love it.
1:11:46
[SPEAKER_05]: It's really nice to be seeing that element of him and not just the established character that he is later on.
1:11:52
[SPEAKER_07]: Most modern readers know him from Excalibur or subsequent stuff.
1:11:55
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think a lot of people have taken time to read the originals.
1:11:57
[SPEAKER_07]: We, uh, we get a lot of key moments with him here as well.
1:12:00
[SPEAKER_07]: Like Courtney wants him to hang out.
1:12:01
[SPEAKER_07]: But he's like, I just got hit in the head with a gun a minute ago.
1:12:04
[SPEAKER_07]: So he...
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_07]: Big mystical threat last time, then it's bank robbers and then it's this guy tossing hurricane winds around destroying the university and he's kind of an over his head although he gets some kind of baller moves here as well.
1:12:16
[SPEAKER_07]: Did you have a favorite Brian moment?
1:12:17
[SPEAKER_05]: It was when Hurricane was like, you, but that's impossible.
1:12:20
[SPEAKER_05]: You couldn't and he's just like, wrong, I could and I did.
1:12:24
[SPEAKER_05]: I love that moment.
1:12:25
[SPEAKER_05]: I really love that.
1:12:26
[SPEAKER_05]: I just like, so I see the picture of the comic as well and I was like, that's the, that's the, that's the
1:12:34
[SPEAKER_05]: And then he just gets, and then he gets knocked on his ass, which is perfect.
1:12:37
[SPEAKER_07]: It's, it's really fun.
1:12:38
[SPEAKER_07]: And then we, of course, led by Friend Christian Smith back reading the delightful part of Albert Potter, the hurricane.
1:12:44
[SPEAKER_07]: This guy is, uh, kind of a credible threat in in large ways, right?
1:12:48
[SPEAKER_07]: He's,
1:12:49
[SPEAKER_07]: manipulating science and tech in such a way that he just wants to destroy property.
1:12:54
[SPEAKER_07]: There's an on thing at the beginning where he's like in makeup and in disguise and you don't quite know why he has a laboratory where he's built this suit and the suit design is really sleek and kind of cool.
1:13:03
[SPEAKER_07]: He reads about a superhero and thinks I must destroy a whole university to show that I'm better than him.
1:13:08
[SPEAKER_07]: And now I will call him the world.
1:13:10
[SPEAKER_07]: He's uttered all every villain wants to conquer the world.
1:13:14
[SPEAKER_07]: Christian, was this a character you were familiar with before?
1:13:16
[SPEAKER_04]: No, yeah, I sort of had a look afterwards and thought, oh, is he telling it's like, well, wouldn't or something that else that we know?
1:13:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, oh, no, he's unique and, you know, he has his, you know, suction of irresistible proportions, what more could more do you want?
1:13:32
[SPEAKER_07]: The only other two characters in Marvel named Hurricane, one of them is a guy from an old West comic book in Tugun Kid.
1:13:39
[SPEAKER_07]: What would be the worst real name for a guy named Hurricane?
1:13:43
[SPEAKER_07]: So this guy's name is Albert Potter.
1:13:44
[SPEAKER_07]: This old West villain that fights the Tugun Kid, what's his real name?
1:13:48
[SPEAKER_07]: It's the word.
1:13:48
[SPEAKER_07]: It's gonna be like Harry Coyne.
1:13:50
[SPEAKER_07]: It's gonna really, that's his name, Harry Coyne.
1:13:52
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a hurricane.
1:13:53
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
1:13:53
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
1:14:00
[SPEAKER_07]: There's also, there's also, that's an alias of McCarray of the internals, and then for those X-Men fans, there's a second generation of the dark writers where like life force and spine and deadbolt and hurricane show of hurricanes, this like shirtless himbo with glasses and like a like a mohawk and he just generates wins.
1:14:17
[SPEAKER_07]: He's, he's analogous.
1:14:18
[SPEAKER_07]: So hurricane's journey in this Christian, what were your thoughts on this character?
1:14:22
[SPEAKER_04]: time on villain, how can you not like it, you know, it's drama, it's changing needs, the escalation be off the air.
1:14:30
[SPEAKER_04]: He's gone from like, say, you know, hiding and taking a news paper to, I want to destroy the world.
1:14:35
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, he's like super mussely and the suit design is actually really cool,
1:14:41
[SPEAKER_07]: This guy shows up a handful of times over the years.
1:14:42
[SPEAKER_07]: He's going to be in our next few reads and then he comes back in 1973 and then like the 90s and again and like 2006 so it just comes sporadic appearances But the guy from last time if you recall has never shown up again, but this is a little bit more of a recurring captain villain
1:14:59
[SPEAKER_07]: Were there any fun local sites for you guys?
1:15:01
[SPEAKER_07]: I've never been over the pond to your side of things We got to see like the BBC in the tens there's a Jack reference here Were there any fun moments for you?
1:15:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, you know, the highlight being south walk place Oh my god, I don't know.
1:15:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, everyone else died the front
1:15:20
[SPEAKER_05]: You said you said self-hawks and I let's you're I did not say color Great it's exactly what we'd expect.
1:15:32
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm still shocked it happening The thing is I knew I'd fuck it up.
1:15:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I knew it.
1:15:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I knew it.
1:15:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll just say happily.
1:15:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, God.
1:15:44
[SPEAKER_05]: What is it?
1:15:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I was gonna go full-blow at half-penny.
1:15:48
[SPEAKER_05]: Mike
1:15:48
[SPEAKER_07]: Favorite was Doris saying haven't seen you in a donkies.
1:15:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's like that was Yeah, honestly if she showed up in the Queen Vick next week, I'd be quite happy with that.
1:16:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was channeling Tracer from Overwatch.
1:16:05
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I was doing
1:16:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I just have to share that I am obsessed with the spectrum of villains that we got today like Giza played by Thomas as like the campus Disney villain ever.
1:16:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, Christian, you were given like the most intense pantal villain that would have made me kiss my pants as a 4-year-old.
1:16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm obsessed with respect from obsessed with it, love this.
1:16:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, I now want to go back and read, nights of Pen Dragon using Jesus' voice for Dytomas, because I think that's gonna make it so much more fun.
1:16:42
[SPEAKER_07]: As you definitely should, oh, we didn't bring up Sandy York at all, either.
1:16:45
[SPEAKER_07]: Sandy York is the Ron Weasley of the Munch.
1:16:51
[SPEAKER_07]: It's not he's not you super often, but kind of just one more character that occasionally gets referenced.
1:16:58
[SPEAKER_07]: The one used I even forgot I was playing them.
1:17:01
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know, Sandy or only shows up two times.
1:17:04
[SPEAKER_07]: Sandy York is here in like next time and that we never see him again.
1:17:07
[SPEAKER_07]: So this was a character that we that we would we could see referenced in brand products like very easily.
1:17:13
[SPEAKER_07]: I had a delightful time with each of you.
1:17:15
[SPEAKER_05]: You can find me on Instagram who may EA.
1:17:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Instagram is J. L. underscore.
1:17:20
[SPEAKER_05]: See, you can also find my dragon count, which is miss underscore kitty underscore flap.
1:17:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I forgot.
1:17:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry.
1:17:29
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to get my misflaps if you're nasty.
1:17:35
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't want full of that.
1:17:37
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, with Hurricane force wins, of course.
1:17:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
1:17:40
[SPEAKER_05]: My suggestion powers.
1:17:41
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't talk about the suction chat.
1:17:44
[SPEAKER_05]: We didn't talk about just Oh, yes.
1:17:46
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, we broke it out during the during the story just a little bit.
1:17:50
[SPEAKER_07]: But my word did a Christian have some homo erotic dial.
1:17:53
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, my god.
1:17:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
1:17:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
1:17:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it wasn't about the case last time.
1:17:57
[SPEAKER_07]: That's my huge blue rods.
1:17:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Please, please, please, comics are so clear.
1:18:02
[SPEAKER_05]: This is what I'm talking about.
1:18:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Several inches of diameter.
1:18:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
1:18:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it, mm-hmm.
1:18:07
[SPEAKER_04]: It's clever, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just trying to, I'm the big UC goals.
1:18:12
[SPEAKER_06]: And you know, he loves to be restrained.
1:18:14
[SPEAKER_06]: Sorry, what?
1:18:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Robin's gone.
1:18:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Robin's gone.
1:18:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Bye, Robin's gone.
1:18:25
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been talking too much.
1:18:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so Christian, as Chrissy, one, seven, I won on Instagram and Blue Skies.
1:18:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can check me out on Instagram, but I don't use it as much these days.
1:18:35
[SPEAKER_02]: My personal account is in Negasonic, trying to warhead my drag account is what Cobra on the score fifth.
1:18:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you really want to check me out, come and see me on Blue Skies.
1:18:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Red, Brested, Robin.
1:18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: and you will find me at Ranting about X-Men and all things delightful.
1:18:50
[SPEAKER_03]: You can find me on Instagram, at Giza Gobble and TikTok as well.
1:18:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing really to promote just if you are ever about in Scotland and you've come to what Amashos, see how you know me and I might get ya free vodka.
1:19:04
[SPEAKER_07]: You mentioned Grimoire Morgan Lane for a free drink everyone.
1:19:07
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I'm on my way.
1:19:10
[SPEAKER_07]: Alright, everybody.
1:19:11
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
1:19:12
[SPEAKER_07]: We'll see you back here next time in a Donkey's Year 2.
1:19:15
[SPEAKER_07]: And now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest tonight talk about a red skull story and its modern applications.
1:19:25
[SPEAKER_07]: Adolf Hitler was a sickly child, doded on by his mother Clara, who had already lost three children and would soon lose another all to illness in the young years of their childhoods.
1:19:37
[SPEAKER_07]: His father, L.O.S.
1:19:38
[SPEAKER_07]: was nearly a quarter century older than Clara and had very little patients for children.
1:19:42
[SPEAKER_07]: Frequently arguing with his two older kids from his first two wives, and with Clara herself, prone to drink and frequently gone, Alice was verbally and emotionally abusive with Clara and the kids, and he would frequently beat the family dog during times of rage.
1:19:57
[SPEAKER_07]: It'll grow up hating his father.
1:19:59
[SPEAKER_07]: Ella was pressured young eight off to enter the civil service when he grew up, like Ella himself had, but it all found the idea of this boring job enforcing boring rules as repellent and he kind of internally vowed to himself that he would do the opposite of anything his father expected of him to do.
1:20:15
[SPEAKER_07]: In 1903, when Adolf was just 13, his father died abruptly leaving his family government pension, but just four years later, Clara, his mother also died of breast cancer very abruptly.
1:20:26
[SPEAKER_07]: Both were pretty young and young Adolf was devastated at the age of 17.
1:20:31
[SPEAKER_07]: A lot of history for this guy after that, but we're going to focus a little bit on his family.
1:20:35
[SPEAKER_07]: He had two half siblings through his father.
1:20:37
[SPEAKER_07]: One was Alois Hitler Jr., who left the house as a young teen.
1:20:41
[SPEAKER_07]: He had an argument with his dad at 14 and basically just went out on his own.
1:20:45
[SPEAKER_07]: And then started getting in trouble with the law and getting arrested.
1:20:48
[SPEAKER_07]: Alois Jr.
1:20:50
[SPEAKER_07]: ended up in London for time.
1:20:52
[SPEAKER_07]: He and Hitler had a strained relationship.
1:20:54
[SPEAKER_07]: He got married to one woman had a child and then married another woman and had a child.
1:20:59
[SPEAKER_07]: ended up getting arrested for bigger me.
1:21:01
[SPEAKER_07]: There's more to his story, but of these two sons, one of them ended up immigrating to America and joining the American military and fighting the Nazis and surviving.
1:21:10
[SPEAKER_07]: The other one ended up joining the German Army and fought on the side of the Nazis and ended up becoming a prisoner of war at the age of 21 in Russia and dying in prison.
1:21:20
[SPEAKER_07]: So just a crazy side story for the Hitler family.
1:21:23
[SPEAKER_07]: Meanwhile, his older half-sister Angela Hitler, eight-offs other half-sibling, and he did have one other sister through his mother.
1:21:31
[SPEAKER_07]: Angela Hitler married and soon had two children Leo in 1906, and then Gellie in 1908, and a third daughter Elfrette in 1910.
1:21:40
[SPEAKER_07]: Leo lived in the late 1970s and Alfreda until 1993, and the middle daughter, Gelli, Hitler was obsessed with her.
1:21:48
[SPEAKER_07]: She was only two years old when her father died at the age of 31, so Angela, Hitler's sister, moved in with Hitler.
1:21:54
[SPEAKER_07]: She was very close to get off.
1:21:55
[SPEAKER_07]: and became the family housekeeper, Hitler was 19 years older than Gele.
1:22:00
[SPEAKER_07]: And by the time she was a teenager, he was in his 30s and he basically moved her into an apartment in Germany, his own private apartment, basically under the premise that she could you know move away from her family and attend university.
1:22:12
[SPEAKER_07]: That's not really how things go.
1:22:14
[SPEAKER_07]: he grew increasingly more controlling over his half niece over time and she didn't end up going to school didn't really have much of a life.
1:22:21
[SPEAKER_07]: When Hitler found out that she had started a relationship with his chauffeur, an emailmerice who was another older man, Hitler ordered Gellie to end the relationship and then fired the chauffeur.
1:22:33
[SPEAKER_07]: He then kind of just kept Gellie to himself over the next few years.
1:22:36
[SPEAKER_07]: He would watch her closely, not allow her to leave the house, not allow her to have friends, and would always keep someone to watch her
1:22:44
[SPEAKER_07]: He had a room set up for her and basically just kept her there.
1:22:47
[SPEAKER_07]: Occasionally, he would reward her with trips to the opera or let her go to the movies at his side.
1:22:52
[SPEAKER_07]: But as time went on, Gelly began to feel more and more like a prisoner she wanted to date to take singing lessons to move to Vienna.
1:22:59
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a ledge she started another relationship without Hitler knowing and when he found out he went crazy.
1:23:05
[SPEAKER_07]: He had a huge argument with her one day.
1:23:07
[SPEAKER_07]: One version of the story says that he stormed out of the house.
1:23:10
[SPEAKER_07]: and went to a meeting, and while he was gone, later got the call, that she had shut herself.
1:23:16
[SPEAKER_07]: She'd been shot in the lung and bled out in his apartment.
1:23:19
[SPEAKER_07]: But another theory is that he found out about this other relationship and killed her himself.
1:23:23
[SPEAKER_07]: So it's kind of a tricky thing.
1:23:25
[SPEAKER_07]: She died at the age of 23 in this apartment after being kept there by him.
1:23:29
[SPEAKER_07]: Many historians have assumed that the relationship between Hitler and Gally was sexual, and there's at least one alleged quote from Anoth Hitler that talked about how Gally Ralbel was the only girl he ever loved.
1:23:39
[SPEAKER_07]: He kept her room untouched for years, with pictures of her hanging on the wall.
1:23:43
[SPEAKER_07]: Fast forward, Hitler later marries Eva Brown, the woman who committed suicide with him, and she was 23 years younger than him himself.
1:23:50
[SPEAKER_07]: Now Hitler again had some siblings.
1:23:52
[SPEAKER_07]: There are no surviving descendants of Adolf Hitler's direct family lied up to this point in history, which is crazy.
1:23:59
[SPEAKER_07]: Because several of them lived many years, but there's no known descendants.
1:24:03
[SPEAKER_07]: Many people assumed Hitler had other children, but that has never officially been legitimized.
1:24:08
[SPEAKER_07]: Now we're going to jump to Captain America to 98 part two.
1:24:11
[SPEAKER_07]: This is 1994.
1:24:12
[SPEAKER_07]: If you were with us last episode, we talked all about the Red Skulls we're counting at his own early origins.
1:24:18
[SPEAKER_07]: But now we're going to continue where he finally shares the origins of his daughter who's been running around in a non-cost Doom as mother superior with her sisters of sin, fighting Captain America and Baron Zemo and Arne Roth.
1:24:29
[SPEAKER_07]: Here's the Red Skulls quotes about his daughter.
1:24:32
[SPEAKER_07]: I come now to the secret that I have never shared with anyone.
1:24:34
[SPEAKER_07]: The secret I now give up to you.
1:24:36
[SPEAKER_07]: It began on the aisle of exiles, where I passed those early days after my revival.
1:24:41
[SPEAKER_07]: I sat a brooding in my study when I was suddenly interrupted by what it first I took to be a ghost.
1:24:46
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm using no, but I swear to you that as I looked up I saw my mother standing before me.
1:24:50
[SPEAKER_07]: But of course it was not Martha, only the nameless washerwoman, my fellow exiles said employed to look after them and see to their needs.
1:24:58
[SPEAKER_07]: I started her face, so filled with awe, and a lightning flash of intuition illuminated my consciousness.
1:25:05
[SPEAKER_07]: Now if you recall earlier in the issue he told us how he once met a woman who reminded him of his mother and he beat her to death with a shovel, so keep that in mind.
1:25:13
[SPEAKER_07]: doubt question that this simple unquestioning peasant would be the one to bear my heir, my heir.
1:25:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Why hadn't I seen this before, just as Hitler had taught me, I would teach my son.
1:25:23
[SPEAKER_07]: When the time came for me to cast aside the flesh, there would be another as wise as I and evil's ways to carry on the line, so I claimed the woman as my own.
1:25:30
[SPEAKER_07]: So I waited for my seed to take root and grow, woof.
1:25:35
[SPEAKER_07]: On the night of my child's birth, I sat, as my brutish father had before me alone with my tempest and my assulin thoughts.
1:25:41
[SPEAKER_07]: When it lasted Dr. Codmian, it was determined that my wife had died in childbirth and that an infant she left me with was not the son I so desired, but a daughter, a daughter, how the dark gods must have laughed at their gest, furious I spat upon the washerwoman's corpse, cursing her for this great betrayal,
1:25:58
[SPEAKER_07]: Then I turned ripping the child from the doctor's arms and strode out into the storm.
1:26:02
[SPEAKER_07]: Let the sea devour you, I'd bellowed raising the baby up, ready to dash it against the rocks below, but something stayed my hand, I spared her captain, and to this day I cannot say why.
1:26:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Thus life began for the woman you now know as mother superior.
1:26:16
[SPEAKER_07]: We learn later by the way, he named her Cynthia, S-I-N-T-A-G-A, so her name is Sin for short.
1:26:21
[SPEAKER_07]: Our children should have a home, no, and I did want to be fitting a daughter of the Red Skull.
1:26:26
[SPEAKER_07]: Skull house was her universal, only contacted with the world beyond my hands, shaped her being stripped her of weakness, filled her with hatred.
1:26:34
[SPEAKER_07]: My daughter's education was unlike any on earth, or the sophisticated machinery of my command was brought to bear in the battle against ignorance.
1:26:41
[SPEAKER_07]: With my days, Mark and I expanded the girl's consciousness, feeding her the dark visions that had nurtured me in my youth, but youth itself became a stumbling block.
1:26:49
[SPEAKER_07]: I found it impossible to relate to a child, to break through the walls of innocence and naivety, then I found the perfect solution.
1:26:56
[SPEAKER_07]: I genetically altered, etc., it had my daughters, aging process, hurling her head long into adulthood.
1:27:02
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, Captain, you heard me correctly, the grown woman you have been battling is barely in her teens, but I am not without a heart.
1:27:08
[SPEAKER_07]: I knew my child had needs that I could not satisfy, so I took in four orphans.
1:27:13
[SPEAKER_07]: Street urchins, much like I had once been, to surf first as her companions and ultimately as her disciples, and he dresses these four girls in like the very enclosed with like the very inherent styles, it's ridiculous.
1:27:27
[SPEAKER_07]: In Mother Superior's Church, I preached to them taught them to reveal my daughter to look upon her as a goddess.
1:27:32
[SPEAKER_07]: My little nuns learned well.
1:27:34
[SPEAKER_07]: They were rewarded with the same premature adopted I had bestowed upon my daughter, although I could not resist experimenting upon them along the way.
1:27:40
[SPEAKER_07]: A man must have his little amusements no, and Mother Superior must have her sisters of sin.
1:27:46
[SPEAKER_07]: My daughter was an agile student captain with an agile mind and a black heart.
1:27:51
[SPEAKER_07]: Yet for all her wisdom and skills, she was still a woman, and I realized that last that no mere woman could ever hope to take my place.
1:27:57
[SPEAKER_07]: Perhaps I could have solved this little problem with time, but as I discovered one faithful morning time was running out.
1:28:02
[SPEAKER_07]: I learned that the effects of the gas that kept me alive all those years was not permanent.
1:28:06
[SPEAKER_07]: The decades had suddenly caught up with me.
1:28:08
[SPEAKER_07]: I was growing older by the day, I was dying, and much as I raged against my fate, there was precious little I could do to deter it.
1:28:14
[SPEAKER_07]: My need for a proper successor became an obsession then, so I looked out upon the world and found Paranel of Zemo.
1:28:20
[SPEAKER_07]: He possessed many of my moronic fathers' weaknesses, but I hoped that, with my daughter's a teaching, he might be raised above such flaws, but he too proved disappointment as in up to bungalow at his as his father.
1:28:30
[SPEAKER_07]: still it amused me to toy with him, to play these two young dogs tear each other's throats.
1:28:35
[SPEAKER_07]: Each one had believed himself the true heir to the red skulls thrown, but neither will ever take my place.
1:28:41
[SPEAKER_07]: When I die I take my evil with me and I take one more thing captain.
1:28:45
[SPEAKER_07]: I take you.
1:28:47
[SPEAKER_07]: We will meet death together, old friend.
1:28:49
[SPEAKER_07]: We shall pass the boundaries of life with our souls entwined, and grapple for all eternity.
1:28:55
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it's very horny.
1:28:56
[SPEAKER_07]: It's end of the speech.
1:29:02
[SPEAKER_07]: Let me welcome my favorite person, Haram Scaram to the show to talk about this crazy story.
1:29:08
[SPEAKER_07]: Hi, Haram, are you a red skull fan?
1:29:09
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know, I don't know, but can I take this story?
1:29:14
[SPEAKER_07]: This story was something else.
1:29:16
[SPEAKER_07]: Isn't it fucking good?
1:29:17
[SPEAKER_07]: It's crazy.
1:29:18
[SPEAKER_07]: Jam, David Taz is really good.
1:29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good.
1:29:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you see all the pair.
1:29:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, he both parallel is parallel and a foil to his father in the way that he has decided to raise his daughter.
1:29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really fucked up.
1:29:30
[SPEAKER_07]: If I'm going to be honest, he hates his father, he idolizes his mother, but he beats women to death who remind him of his mother or or rapes them and then like hates women in particular.
1:29:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, okay, so let's break this apart.
1:29:44
[SPEAKER_07]: First of all, what was it like for you to read this story?
1:29:46
[SPEAKER_07]: Because it's crazy good, but also wow.
1:29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It was interesting to say the least because again, you get to see his origins, how he justifies everything that he's done in his life, how he justifies the way that he has decided to raise his daughter, how he justifies his hatred in every sense of the word, and then pushes that hatred going to a daughter that he doesn't see as what's the word enough.
1:30:12
[SPEAKER_01]: to be his heir for the sheer fact of her being a woman in this world.
1:30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And hearing you go into the explanation in regards to, uh, Gelly, Hitler's new species.
1:30:24
[SPEAKER_07]: Isn't that fucked up story that we've never really fucked.
1:30:25
[SPEAKER_07]: It's really fucked.
1:30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Raising.
1:30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And it really parallels what's going on here in this story.
1:30:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's God.
1:30:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sorry.
1:30:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going on here in this story.
1:30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's God.
1:30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sorry.
1:30:34
[UNKNOWN]: We're going to
1:30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Red School said Red School says that he is very much a product of the teachings that he got from Hitler, but also far above it from what I could glean from the text as reading this, but then you see so much of his influences in this man in the way that he decided to again racist daughter and the way that he decided to sequester her away from the world and teacher these violent teachings, but also obviously didn't see her as on part with him again.
1:31:04
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, truly uncomfortable.
1:31:05
[SPEAKER_07]: So when we look at the origins of sin, Nessene is a character that comes back later at the end of this story, Red School just has a heart attack and kills over and dies, which is brilliant.
1:31:14
[SPEAKER_07]: But best way to die.
1:31:15
[SPEAKER_07]: And then in the next issue, sin and there are mother superior and the sisters of sin get deaged back to children.
1:31:21
[SPEAKER_07]: So it's
1:31:21
[SPEAKER_07]: kind of a happy ending.
1:31:22
[SPEAKER_07]: Later writers of course bring both the red skull back and bring Cynthia back as a grown-up.
1:31:28
[SPEAKER_07]: She becomes like a crossbones girlfriend and then she gets her face like burned and it turns into a red skull and she's like she's got a pretty long history in the comics itself but at this point we have this kind of male obsession with like the teenage girl like I'm gonna make her a woman forced for
1:31:45
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I'm going to bring in some orphans, like I understand my daughter has needs, so I brought some friends and gave them German haircuts.
1:31:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he has apparent needs for his amusement with them.
1:31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I do not want to imagine what he was doing to these girls.
1:31:59
[SPEAKER_07]: And I want to keep them innocent, so I would rest them as nuns and call them sister agony, sister death, sister dream and sister pleasure, which one are you haram?
1:32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I want to be sister dream.
1:32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be me.
1:32:11
[SPEAKER_07]: This is a real fact as well.
1:32:13
[SPEAKER_07]: They later changed their names in another story when they're aged back up.
1:32:16
[SPEAKER_07]: And sister pleasure changes her name to a romch, just the word romch.
1:32:21
[SPEAKER_07]: Sister, sister death becomes torso, sister agony becomes lash, and sister dream becomes hoodwink.
1:32:28
[SPEAKER_07]: But the name was a picture alone.
1:32:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they make these names for themselves?
1:32:33
[SPEAKER_07]: So I'm planning a sisters of sin episode on my show.
1:32:37
[SPEAKER_07]: On the Patreon, we'll talk about a
1:32:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we use oh my god.
1:32:42
[SPEAKER_07]: So these origins there's a lot to do with the Red Skull's disgust in having a daughter Like he raises her up to be a tool in his arsenal and then wants Zemo's kid instead as his like natural Aryan air because a daughter not only is it a girl, but she's a red head god damn it
1:33:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he doesn't see Zemo as any better than his daughter because of who he is, the line that he's coming from because his father he already seen as a weakling as is.
1:33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But he thought that if he used his daughter to teach him, maybe he would raise above that.
1:33:15
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so we're planning, and I said in November, we're gonna do the trial of Helmet Zemo on my show.
1:33:20
[SPEAKER_07]: That's gonna be, that's where we're all building toward.
1:33:22
[SPEAKER_07]: He's the Thunderbolts guy, like, you know, the child of the Nazi war criminals who becomes the Nazi war criminal.
1:33:28
[SPEAKER_07]: It's gonna be a whole conversation.
1:33:31
[SPEAKER_07]: It's been in the sisters of sin.
1:33:33
[SPEAKER_07]: I are just some of those delicious Marvel weird characters that just come out of fucking nowhere that's insane.
1:33:40
[SPEAKER_07]: Also, the Red Skull's so horny for Captain America, right?
1:33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like my god.
1:33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
1:33:48
[SPEAKER_07]: We can grab before eternity.
1:33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: and in Captain America is just sitting here in objects, violence, the entire time.
1:33:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I want to know what he's thinking, but I pretty much already know what he's thinking.
1:34:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Just by the different panels that we gave of just singular shots of Captain America's face.
1:34:07
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, the other, if you read the letter and the lead-ins to this story as well, the Red School is furious at Captain America for having like a gay friend and a black friend and a Jewish friend.
1:34:16
[SPEAKER_07]: And he kidnapped Captain America's gay friend, Arnie Roth, who's a Jewish character.
1:34:21
[SPEAKER_07]: And he has built an entire replica of a 1930s gay club in his basement.
1:34:25
[SPEAKER_07]: And he paints Arnie Rothen make up and like, like, this is just in his house.
1:34:29
[SPEAKER_07]: It's just there.
1:34:32
[SPEAKER_07]: It's so weird.
1:34:33
[SPEAKER_07]: The whole thing.
1:34:34
[SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
1:34:36
[SPEAKER_07]: What was it like for you hearing this kind of real world comparison about Adolf Hitler's family?
1:34:40
[SPEAKER_07]: I went over, I went into more detail in the previous episode about the history of his parents.
1:34:45
[SPEAKER_07]: His father is alleged to have been Jewish first of all.
1:34:48
[SPEAKER_07]: He had an illegitimate murder.
1:34:50
[SPEAKER_07]: So there's a lot of crazy history, but what was it like for you to hear about Hitler's siblings and especially Gally?
1:34:55
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a rough story.
1:34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely a rough, if not, interesting in regards to historical context of it all, just because you're seeing into a window of this absolute monstering, again, seeing how much of a monster that he was that makes sense, even to those who are more closely in his life.
1:35:14
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
1:35:14
[SPEAKER_07]: And then we draw the 2025 comparison.
1:35:17
[SPEAKER_07]: And there are some bizarre things about evil men in power who are obsessed with teenage girls and having full control over them from so many celebrities to politicians from, I don't know, I we'd just give a long fucking list of people.
1:35:32
[SPEAKER_07]: But Donald Trump is right at the top of it and it's gross all the comments he has about how if this wasn't my daughter I could fucker and walking it on teen girls at the Miss America and dot dot dot and on and on and grab him by the fucking pussy.
1:35:48
[SPEAKER_07]: I hate this man so much, and he's just... Honestly.
1:35:51
[SPEAKER_07]: I hate it.
1:35:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's all a vibe for Power at the end of the day.
1:35:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They see women as supposed to be supportive men.
1:35:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So then women these days, of course, we're not really like, they're not really supportive men at this point.
1:36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when it comes down to it, women still are kind of second class citizens in society, unfortunately because of how patriarchal our society is, but women have a little bit more power these days.
1:36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Teen girls do not.
1:36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this kind of puts a lens on that that makes sense.
1:36:18
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I grew up in the Mormon church where the original leaders of the church were obsessed with cornering teenage girls.
1:36:24
[SPEAKER_07]: They would have little lot of ease.
1:36:26
[SPEAKER_07]: Like, I get this one.
1:36:26
[SPEAKER_07]: You get that one.
1:36:27
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll take this one and then they pull them away from their parents and be like, God commanded me to marry you in this room.
1:36:33
[SPEAKER_07]: And we're going to fuck right here or an angel will destroy your family with a sword.
1:36:37
[SPEAKER_07]: But also, you can never tell your mom and dad or you'll go to hell.
1:36:39
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's like it's it's this crazy like kept girl story over and over in history.
1:36:45
[SPEAKER_07]: I hate it so much that Kelly Hitler wherever you are.
1:36:48
[SPEAKER_07]: That's a crazy name first of all.
1:36:49
[SPEAKER_07]: Actually her name was Kelly Rauble.
1:36:51
[SPEAKER_07]: Kelly Rauble but also there's an Angela Hitler in this story which is somehow so weird to me.
1:36:59
[SPEAKER_07]: And then the story of his two nephews like what on the American side and what on the Nazi side?
1:37:04
[SPEAKER_07]: That's awesome.
1:37:05
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there's that's weird history.
1:37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very surprised because like I read some things where it's like most I don't know if this is true entirely.
1:37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, these are like different accounts from people, historical accounts from people, in regards to what happened to a lot of people who were related to most of the most of the political leaders of the Nazi party that a lot of them were either hunted down and killed.
1:37:29
[SPEAKER_01]: at some point, or given basically any sort of a, God, what's the part that I'm looking for?
1:37:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Given the punishment that should have went to the specific leader who did this thing.
1:37:39
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there are some counts of that.
1:37:40
[SPEAKER_07]: There's many counts of people getting away with it too.
1:37:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, I was always interested in the fact of what if Hitler had any family what happened to them after the fact.
1:37:49
[SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, there's a few rings in this.
1:37:52
[SPEAKER_07]: two stories of him having like illegitimate children.
1:37:54
[SPEAKER_07]: I may talk about that on other.
1:37:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:37:56
[SPEAKER_07]: But it's interesting for me though, doing this research.
1:37:58
[SPEAKER_07]: Like I'm doing one red skull story at a time, and then I've got to find an allegory from real history.
1:38:03
[SPEAKER_07]: And the more I learn, the more I'm like, oh my god, we're living it all again.
1:38:06
[SPEAKER_07]: It's, it's, it's really crazy.
1:38:08
[SPEAKER_07]: It's really,
1:38:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, this is because time, it's a circle, but it's also because we're not being, I don't think we're getting the right type of education in regards to why these historical events have happened, why these things happen in this man, what let up to that we get like a broad kind of detailing of the events, but we don't get the, hey, this is the propaganda that led to this, these are the actions of these different governments that led to this.
1:38:33
[SPEAKER_01]: This is how this ended up happening and this is how the citizens were just kind of told to shut up about it or how they were convinced that oh no this is a fine thing to happen and we're seeing it again in real time and multiple different scenarios that are going on around the world and multiple different wars and genocide that are happening right now in the world and it's all right there if you look for it.
1:38:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all right there.
1:38:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And some people would rather shut their eyes to it than actually take a full look at what's happening.
1:39:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, OK, so this is exactly how that happens.
1:39:03
[SPEAKER_01]: This is exactly how things like this repeat for people themselves because you hear a lot of people say, Oh, I would never sit on the sidelines and let this happen if I were in that time period.
1:39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: This is actually the time now to kind of put your money where your mouth is better.
1:39:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Makes sense.
1:39:17
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
1:39:18
[SPEAKER_07]: The best part of this whole story is Mother Superior's country, little and uncostom.
1:39:21
[SPEAKER_07]: It's my favorite.
1:39:25
[SPEAKER_07]: You, you being non-binary, I want to sign you a sister character, but I'm a little disappointed that you wanted to be hoodwink instead of Ronch.
1:39:31
[SPEAKER_07]: That's my biggest disappointment from this episode.
1:39:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I could pull off much.
1:39:39
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you have any final thoughts on Captain America 298?
1:39:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Jamed Amite is this a banger of a story.
1:39:44
[SPEAKER_07]: If you're going to work with this horrible fucking character, this is a crazy story to tell.
1:39:48
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, one thing we didn't really, I mean, we didn't create a lot of room for it, but he's on the island of exiles with like the the washerwoman who is employing the elderly Nazis who escaped justice.
1:39:59
[SPEAKER_07]: And like there's like this.
1:40:00
[SPEAKER_07]: She's there to attend to her dot dot dot needs.
1:40:03
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I must have her and it's very clearly implied that he rape
1:40:06
[SPEAKER_07]: this quote unquote simple woman that reminded him of his mother.
1:40:09
[SPEAKER_07]: I allowed my seed to grow like just uh there's the whole the whole story is just distasteful after he's so proud of beating Esther to death and his youth with the with the shovel.
1:40:20
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean again brilliant brilliant story telling to him and say as it's a great but uh it's just uh this is the worst character ever created.
1:40:27
[SPEAKER_07]: He's just the worst.
1:40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm definitely seeing a lot of the web as complex of him as well which is very
1:40:36
[SPEAKER_01]: such a terrible character in regards to how he was looking at it.
1:40:40
[SPEAKER_07]: He also remembers having been in his mother's womb late.
1:40:43
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there's a lot going on.
1:40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I had a nickel for every character, that for some reason remembers pre-berg being in the womb, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it keeps happening.
1:40:56
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh well, and I have to say it this way, sorry, but he remembers being inside his mother.
1:41:01
[SPEAKER_07]: And that's uncomfortable.
1:41:06
[SPEAKER_07]: I love laughing with you, my friend.
1:41:08
[SPEAKER_07]: We can take these crazy serious topics and just have a good time.
1:41:11
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for hanging out with me today.
1:41:13
[SPEAKER_01]: When I learn from you today, I get very interesting in historical sense.
1:41:19
[SPEAKER_07]: Every every scorello or just like another arrow in my arsenal, weirdly it's like seeing how we're able to learn this through the awful history that's that story.
1:41:27
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, and there's going to come a time when it's going to be 80 years past now and people who are up on whatever the equivalent of Wikipedia is about how we thought back and what we did you know.
1:41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say, I'm going to hopefully be able to take those stories and understand that I can have to step in and intervene at a sooner than unfortunately what we continue to
1:41:47
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'm grateful for you.
1:41:48
[SPEAKER_07]: I've been listening to your voice all day as I edit the glosses trial and we get to do a big birthday on a few weeks.
1:41:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So hey, yeah, let's go!
1:41:54
[SPEAKER_07]: All right everybody, thanks for listening.
1:41:56
[SPEAKER_07]: We'll see you back here with another anecdote.
1:41:57
[SPEAKER_07]: Next time where we're finally going to wrap up this 1984 Red Skull story that does result in his death before they bring him back as a hot clone of Captain America a few years later.
1:42:07
[SPEAKER_07]: So we'll get there.
1:42:08
[SPEAKER_07]: All right, we're facing high.
1:42:12
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, we'll see you back here next time.
1:42:15
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
1:42:17
[SPEAKER_07]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
1:42:18
[SPEAKER_07]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
1:42:28
[SPEAKER_07]: Look for us on Patreon, where we are releasing weekly episodes about obscure characters and facts.
1:42:35
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a great way to participate with the podcast for only just a couple of dollars a month and it helps support what we are doing here.
1:42:41
[SPEAKER_07]: Also, the best way you can help
1:42:43
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1:42:51
[SPEAKER_07]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.