Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Heathenry in the Here and Now feat. Chloe Tartt [RHR S6, EP42]

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Heathenry in the Here and Now feat. Chloe Tartt [RHR S6, EP42] · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:02
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:05
  podcast where we discuss all sorts of things dramatic
• 0:08
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse and I'm your
• 0:11
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  All right, everybody, welcome back to this week's episode of
• 1:16
  the Random Heathen Ramblings. Random Heathen Ramblings
• 1:19
  podcast. Almost botched my own brand
• 1:21
  name, for goodness sake. Anyway, welcome back to the
• 1:23
  podcast, everybody. Thank you for being here.
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  your daily activities, tuning in every week to hear what we've
• 1:57
  got to ramble on about this week.
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  head on over to patreon.com/midgarden Musings
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  and join at the Carl tier. It's a $1.00 pledge.
• 2:33
  But aside from that, we've got a guest that is checking in with
• 2:36
  us today from Baltimore, MD. She is a Pagan since about, I
• 2:42
  think she said 2017 and a heathen of about the last four
• 2:49
  years, give or take. And this is Chloe Tart.
• 2:53
  She is the founder of the website called.
• 2:56
  What is it, Chloe? I'm sorry.
• 2:58
  Empire. Let's see here.
• 3:03
  Everhart. Empire, Right?
• 3:09
  You might have to unmute yourself there.
• 3:10
  I think that's OK. We'll get it.
• 3:16
  Love the background too, by the way.
• 3:17
  Looks like Magnolias or something.
• 3:21
  Let's see. Mute and ask to unmute.
• 3:25
  Try that. How's that work for you?
• 3:33
  How about that? There we are, there we.
• 3:36
  Are sorry about that, something unplugged and I had to plug it
• 3:39
  back in and everything. That's OK.
• 3:42
  Listen, I I get it. Technology.
• 3:44
  As much as I work in IT day in and day out, technology finds a
• 3:47
  way to to screw me over plenty of times.
• 3:51
  But I believe that. Familiar.
• 3:52
  It's all good, but it's yeah. Everhart, empire.com.
• 3:55
  This is Chloe Tart and the host of the Van Hein Vibes podcast.
• 3:59
  So welcome to the show, Chloe. Thanks for being here.
• 4:02
  Thank you for having me. I think these technical mishaps
• 4:05
  might give us a good springboard to start talking about the topic
• 4:09
  for the day. It usually does, you know, like
• 4:12
  sometimes we have things planned in, in terms of like a, a
• 4:16
  checklist of, of items that we want to talk about.
• 4:18
  I know you had reached out to me a month or two ago inquiring
• 4:22
  about talking about some really cool things.
• 4:24
  We're going to get into that. But then there's always that
• 4:26
  just inevitable happenings of, of just life, you know, things
• 4:31
  just happening you can't plan for.
• 4:33
  That's like, hey, this is, this is modern, you know, real world
• 4:36
  problems, right? These aren't necessarily the
• 4:38
  types of problems that are ancient ancestors may have had
• 4:40
  to deal with in this context, but they had their own problems.
• 4:43
  And now we are here trying to figure out where my mute button
• 4:46
  is and what the heck unplugged and why am I not coming through
• 4:49
  and all these kinds of fun things.
• 4:51
  So welcome to the show, Chloe, you again, like I said earlier,
• 4:55
  you are a Pagan or started your your journey into paganism.
• 5:00
  I think you said around 2017, is that right?
• 5:02
  That is correct. OK, you're in Baltimore, MD on
• 5:07
  the East Coast. I'm, I'm a New York native, by
• 5:09
  the way. So you're right above that Mason
• 5:11
  Dixon line. You, you, you're not quite,
• 5:14
  you're not quite a Southerner, but you're, you're, so you're
• 5:16
  like right on that, that, that fence line there.
• 5:19
  Where the biscuits are gravy are delicious no matter which side
• 5:22
  of the basin Dixon line you're on.
• 5:24
  Facts. Yeah, I mean, I've actually, I
• 5:26
  mean, I've traveled a lot in, in my, in my life for work and and
• 5:30
  other things. And one thing I did notice is
• 5:32
  that right around there, it's you can't really go wrong with
• 5:37
  Southern cooking. Like they got that.
• 5:38
  They got that down at least. Oh, they figured something out.
• 5:41
  Something special. Yeah, right, Right.
• 5:45
  So I guess let's let's, let's learn a little bit about Chloe,
• 5:50
  right. You said you came into Paganism
• 5:52
  2017. Do you have like an origin story
• 5:54
  of what brought you into Paganism to start with and then
• 5:58
  what from there? What led you into Heathenry?
• 6:00
  Sure, 2017, I was having a really rough time as these
• 6:05
  things happen with religions, you know, I lost my job, I was
• 6:10
  lost. I didn't know what to do with
• 6:11
  myself. I'm sitting there just, I'm had
• 6:15
  to move back in with my parents and I'm sitting there on my bed
• 6:20
  in my childhood room looking through, looking through Tumblr
• 6:25
  and I'm trans, I'm transgender. It's, you know, I, I don't, my
• 6:29
  face, my voice. Let's not worry about that.
• 6:33
  I had to figure that out the hard way.
• 6:36
  When I was sitting there looking through witchy looks in my
• 6:41
  dashboard, it just randomly came up.
• 6:43
  Here's just some great aesthetics, purple hair, witch
• 6:47
  hats, moons. And then I realized something,
• 6:51
  something that kind of changed my life, which was that this all
• 6:55
  brings a lot of gender feelings. And before this, I was an
• 7:00
  atheist. I was a hardcore skeptic
• 7:03
  atheist. I was deep into that Richard
• 7:05
  Dawkins life. I was deep into the, you know,
• 7:09
  that that whole thing, new atheism.
• 7:12
  And I had to sit there and realize what we have here is a
• 7:18
  mystical experience that is profound.
• 7:23
  It was jarring and it was entirely mundane here.
• 7:29
  It was just gender feelings leading and inviting to a
• 7:35
  greater something. And I followed it.
• 7:41
  I gave up that rationality and I followed it, went right for it.
• 7:48
  And I was lost for about 3-4 years.
• 7:52
  I didn't know what I was doing, I didn't know where I was going.
• 7:55
  All I knew was I was chasing a vibe.
• 7:59
  And then 2020 happened and don't want to bring anyone down but I
• 8:03
  caught COVID. Yeah.
• 8:06
  And with that came long COVID. And with long COVID came a brain
• 8:14
  infection that caused me to have psychosis.
• 8:18
  Here's the thing about about religious psychosis, though, my
• 8:21
  religious psychosis. What do you do when you're
• 8:25
  hallucinating the Norse gods telling you to take your meds
• 8:27
  and go to therapy. What do you do?
• 8:32
  Like, like that was that was the that was the voice in the back
• 8:36
  of my head. And that was the hallucination.
• 8:38
  But I'm like, you know, that's not bad advice.
• 8:44
  So I started following it. And then I found myself
• 8:46
  researching into the Norse pantheon, and then I felt myself
• 8:51
  called by Freya. And that's when everything
• 8:55
  changed. And it was in late of 2021 when
• 9:01
  everything kind of came to a head and things got really bad.
• 9:05
  I finally got better. So it's not entirely a bummer,
• 9:11
  but that's that that that was when I realized the Norse path
• 9:15
  was my path was when I had that one experience was.
• 9:21
  Yeah. And it was powerful.
• 9:22
  I mean, what do you do with an experience like that?
• 9:25
  Sure. I mean, it's interesting that
• 9:27
  you say that this so you know, you, you come from a a
• 9:32
  background with which is interesting because like a lot
• 9:34
  of people that come into paganism have a religious
• 9:37
  background in Christianity, a lot of them do nowadays.
• 9:41
  And it sounds like from what you're saying, you had a
• 9:44
  background of no religion and an identity, a discovery of your
• 9:52
  identity, that paganism was kind of calling to you, or at least
• 9:56
  in some form or fashion would do you remember, like what you
• 9:59
  said, witchy things. So I'm assuming it was like a
• 10:00
  Wiccan aesthetic or Wicca adjacent type paganism, right?
• 10:06
  Which is pretty popular too, especially for people.
• 10:09
  A lot of people come into Norse or dramatic Heathenry from
• 10:13
  Wiccan practices, and there's even a lot of that that's bled
• 10:17
  over into modern Heathen practice.
• 10:19
  We might get into some of that, but no, it's really interesting
• 10:22
  that you said that, you know, so coming from an atheistic
• 10:24
  perspective of the world into paganism, and then contracting a
• 10:29
  virus that advanced in such a way that you experience this
• 10:35
  psychosis or this hallucinogenic like visions from divinity that
• 10:41
  that manifested themselves in a very specific way.
• 10:45
  Right. In Norse, like, not, not, not,
• 10:48
  you know, not what are some of the big ones for, like the
• 10:51
  Wiccans? Like, I mean, I know it's it's
• 10:53
  Celtic. Yeah, like Hikate, I know
• 10:57
  Morgan, Morgan, you know what I mean?
• 10:59
  Like, so none of those figures manifested themselves in that
• 11:02
  way to you. Instead it was Norse or dramatic
• 11:06
  figures specifically, which is something to be said because
• 11:12
  like it at least it's interesting to me to think like
• 11:14
  Freya has a lot to do with Sather and the altered state of
• 11:19
  mind that comes with that particular practice in that
• 11:23
  culture. So very interesting.
• 11:27
  Right. And the the the whole idea of
• 11:30
  being manipulated through altered states of consciousness,
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  I mean, that's fundamental for so much human spirituality right
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  now, especially in the past. Really well, that is a so so
• 11:45
  you, you, you came into this path through an illness, right?
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  It kind of came to you through this and and that was the the
• 11:53
  launching off point. That was the kind of impetus
• 11:55
  behind your pursuit in Norse Heathenry.
• 11:58
  It sounds like it may have been the thing that got you to talk
• 12:02
  about it on a platform. Vanneheim vibes kind of being a
• 12:05
  nod to the Vanier gods afraid of whom you know Freya is a member
• 12:11
  of that tribe of gods. So do you want to talk a little
• 12:15
  bit about that? Like what that what that what
• 12:17
  that was like for you to feel that call from divinity and have
• 12:22
  it be Freya being a very focal point in that.
• 12:24
  And then and then what led to your forming this this podcast
• 12:29
  called Vanaheim Vibes? Sure.
• 12:32
  The, the, the, the, the, the calling on that one was just
• 12:36
  that I wanted to collect as much UPG as possible.
• 12:39
  I felt like our UPG is something that we should be at least
• 12:44
  talking about, should be qualitatively putting it
• 12:47
  somewhere, exploring it, talking about it, getting into the nitty
• 12:52
  gritty of it. For me, Vanneheim vibes is about
• 12:57
  what it means to be Vonnier, which is about exploration, or
• 13:02
  to be Vonnitru. Sorry, because I identify on
• 13:06
  that side of things because of Freya.
• 13:10
  Yeah. And because of that, that
• 13:12
  interaction between the Vonnier and the Aussier, the, the, the,
• 13:17
  the whole idea that there is a whole world for us to explore
• 13:22
  become suddenly this, this fundamental, like emergent
• 13:27
  property of the spirituality. I mean, based on a few lines
• 13:31
  from the Voluspa and a few lines from Ingling saga that
• 13:35
  described, you know, those, those that, that conflict.
• 13:39
  But it has opened up a world where I have hung out with
• 13:43
  Sikhis and Muslims and Jewish people and Christians and all
• 13:47
  sort. And, you know, it just really
• 13:49
  opened up the world to me so. Yeah, let's back up for a
• 13:52
  second, if you don't mind 'cause I, I'm pretty sure all of my
• 13:55
  listeners or viewers are familiar with the term Acer and
• 13:59
  Vonier, right? The two different tribes of the
• 14:01
  gods and, and how that in the Norse myths, how they became
• 14:06
  unified through sort of a treaty.
• 14:10
  But you mentioned that you, you, you, you said a word that you
• 14:12
  identify as Vonatru. Would you like to maybe give
• 14:17
  your explanation or what that means?
• 14:20
  What Vonatru means 'cause I know you know, a lot of heathens,
• 14:23
  modern heathens will identify or use the term also true.
• 14:27
  That's kind of like the, the, the religion that was coined in
• 14:30
  Iceland back in the 70's. The, the also true Philegoth is
• 14:33
  their, is their official or a religious organization.
• 14:37
  So also true meaning kind of the true to the austere gods.
• 14:40
  So, Vonatru, what, what, what are we talking about with with
• 14:44
  regards to that term? So what we're talking about is
• 14:48
  late 90s, mid to late 90s formulation, mostly on the
• 14:52
  Internet of people who felt strongly about the Vonier gods,
• 14:57
  gods and goddesses, especially N Freyer and Freya through
• 15:04
  Germanic Keithenry, especially through reconstructive work done
• 15:08
  by Rob Shriver with the Distal Thing ship shaft.
• 15:16
  Erglava Kindred has been really informative on what the the rest
• 15:22
  of the von Air have been up to and what has been this larger,
• 15:29
  this larger story that seems to be missing from half of our myth
• 15:35
  of this other half of a tribe of gods.
• 15:42
  Yeah. So vana true is kind of the term
• 15:45
  that is a relatively modern one and it's vana is kind of the
• 15:49
  root like Vonier vana true also so so true.
• 15:54
  True. To the Vonier, you know, or or a
• 15:58
  focus on the Vonier tribe of the gods, which is really again just
• 16:02
  a a sect or or or separate tribe of the Norse gods.
• 16:08
  They, they don't really have the same, like there doesn't seem
• 16:12
  to, there doesn't seem to be the same differentiation between
• 16:15
  that in the continental dramatic myths, at least what has
• 16:19
  survived or what we know of, but it's definitely it came into
• 16:23
  that separation, right? There was this, there was this
• 16:27
  war. And then, you know, we call it
• 16:31
  like hostages and you know, and Mimir's head and, and all of
• 16:34
  this fun stuff that gets into the mix of things.
• 16:37
  So, but it's interesting 'cause like one of the things that you
• 16:41
  had reached out to me about about coming on the podcast was,
• 16:46
  you know, you said, I think in that e-mail that like one of the
• 16:49
  one of your big focuses is not so much on recapturing the past.
• 16:56
  You know, you mentioned sagas, you know, you mentioned the
• 16:58
  ingling of Saga, you mentioned one of the codecs sources, one
• 17:02
  of the oldest sources in the poetic the the Voluspa or the
• 17:06
  Voluspa the. Regius I think.
• 17:09
  Yeah, the, the Volus, but is, is one of the manuscripts that
• 17:12
  exist in the Codex Regis. So, you know, but you're, you're
• 17:16
  mentioning things from the past that a lot of heathens look to
• 17:20
  for guidance on. So, but your focus isn't so much
• 17:24
  on recapturing the past so much as it is on, you know, asking
• 17:28
  like, how do we move Heathenry into the present in the future?
• 17:32
  Right, so. And part of that is
• 17:36
  understanding that the past is what we are rooted in.
• 17:40
  We we are rooted in the past, not trapped in amber.
• 17:44
  So we can understand what feeds us and what drives us and what
• 17:48
  pulls us to grow. But we can grow beyond the
• 17:52
  original roots. Yeah, and it's interesting
• 17:56
  'cause that's kind of like one of my tag lines or, or things
• 18:01
  that I've said over the last, you know, close to a decade that
• 18:05
  I've been heathen, but definitely within the last six
• 18:08
  to seven seasons of this show is practicing old ways in modern
• 18:12
  times. So what I wanted to ask you is,
• 18:19
  you know, you, you definitely understand that there's an
• 18:21
  importance on recognizing the, you know, the the past, right,
• 18:25
  Feeding the roots but not becoming root bound.
• 18:29
  What was, what was an experience for you that led you to this
• 18:33
  perspective of moving forward with the past as being this kind
• 18:39
  of inspiration or this, you know, feeding the flames of the,
• 18:43
  of the, of the embers of the past, right?
• 18:45
  Keeping those traditions alive, but not becoming, like you said,
• 18:49
  in amber, right? Stuck in that or root bound in
• 18:52
  that? What was an experience that kind
• 18:53
  of led you to this perspective of moving into the present and
• 18:56
  and and towards the future? This is going to make me sound
• 18:59
  like a massive lush, but it was being drunk in the backseat of
• 19:02
  an Uber getting home, thinking about Thor's protection and how
• 19:08
  really they're, you know, this is the modern equivalent to
• 19:13
  praying to Thor to make sure you get home safe and to and that
• 19:21
  from that I started thinking, well, what else in the modern
• 19:24
  world can we start making those connections on?
• 19:30
  And when discussing my podcast with a friend of mine, they once
• 19:36
  said that the term Vanaheim Vibe sounds like the name of a
• 19:39
  nightclub. And I'm like, and really what?
• 19:44
  What really is wrong with the idea of Folk Vonger being
• 19:48
  potentially an upscale Ultra club?
• 19:53
  I mean. If.
• 19:55
  Yeah, I mean, if Freya is supposed to be the goddess of
• 19:57
  opulence and, and not just love, but in in, in, in, in, whatever,
• 20:02
  right? It's a party girl, man.
• 20:04
  If she's supposed to be a party girl, then why not?
• 20:06
  Yeah, you know what I mean? Like it's it's like one of those
• 20:09
  things where she's the party girl of the of the and and, and
• 20:12
  and I'm I'm not saying that to mock the gods Loki in Lokasena
• 20:18
  flights. You know that that whole
• 20:20
  flighting that happens in Lokasena is is Loki basically
• 20:24
  like look at Frey over here, you know, like, you know, she'll
• 20:26
  she'll bang the dwarves for some gems on bring, you know what I
• 20:30
  mean? Like, yeah, he she so she has
• 20:32
  this reputation of being kind of like the party girl of the gods,
• 20:39
  but multifaceted in many ways, right.
• 20:41
  It's not that any of the gods have one particular aspect that
• 20:45
  should be 100% focused on, but that is kind of a big aspect.
• 20:49
  You know, like you have the the the hearth mother of with you
• 20:52
  know, kind of encapsulated with Frega or Freg, you know, the the
• 20:58
  the motherly feminine powers. And then, you know, Freya has
• 21:04
  very much the the wild kind of party gal.
• 21:08
  You know, let's just let's get kind of go nuts here for a bit
• 21:13
  aspect at least in the stories, Right, Right.
• 21:16
  Yeah. Well, the the way I see Freya is
• 21:20
  that with her strong, like when we see her in Lay of Trim when
• 21:27
  she's basically telling the Acer to go, you know, to go screw
• 21:30
  off. And she's shaking the the walls
• 21:33
  of her hall so powerfully and mightily that even Bersingaman
• 21:37
  falls off and you know, whatever.
• 21:40
  Yeah, there is one word that came to mind and that was self
• 21:45
  determination. The self determination to make
• 21:48
  that decision for herself in that moment and that beyond the
• 21:54
  being the party girl, beyond being, you know, sleeping around
• 21:57
  and doing this, doing that, that self determination, what do I
• 22:01
  want to be today? Who am I to myself?
• 22:07
  Yeah, yeah, 'cause it was. Sorry, Go ahead.
• 22:13
  Oh no, I just had a cough. I'm sorry about that.
• 22:16
  Oh, no, no worries, yeah, it's 'cause you know, she, she was,
• 22:20
  it was that whole like when, you know, Thor's hammer gets stolen
• 22:25
  and, and he has to retrieve it and therms could be the yeah,
• 22:28
  the lay of three and and what's, what's the solution?
• 22:32
  It's dress up like Freya and pretend to be her because that's
• 22:36
  what the giants, that's what the yolk ton wanted to to to have
• 22:40
  was was Freya. And it at first it was give
• 22:43
  Freya to to three M like give get and Freya was like, excuse
• 22:47
  me, but no, absolutely not. And so then Heimdall is like,
• 22:53
  well, the next best thing is to put Thor in a dress and make him
• 22:57
  do it. But yeah, and, and it's really
• 23:03
  from that that I, I, I do find myself, you know, learning about
• 23:07
  more about myself and learning like, how do I really make the
• 23:11
  most out of this life that we live?
• 23:15
  Really, when did you first begin to really question the idea that
• 23:19
  Heathenry must be rooted? Like when did you start
• 23:25
  questioning like, OK, I understand like the importance
• 23:28
  of the myths and the lore, right?
• 23:30
  But when did you really first start to question that the idea
• 23:33
  that Heathenry must be rooted solely in reconstruction?
• 23:35
  Like what was, was there a moment that you decided to
• 23:39
  shift? Like, OK, let's, let's, let's
• 23:42
  look past the old stories 'cause you mentioned earlier in the
• 23:46
  show, like the importance of talking about UPG.
• 23:49
  And I've expressed this in, in various episodes and with
• 23:52
  different guests in the past that, you know, as long as we're
• 23:56
  identifying and clearly marking what UPG is, I'm all for it.
• 24:03
  And, and how much of what the past, how, how much of the past
• 24:09
  was, was framed around their UPG at the time, you know what I
• 24:15
  mean? So I guess they get the question
• 24:18
  was, you know, when, when did you kind of get to that point
• 24:20
  where you're like, I think we need to you realize, like the
• 24:24
  myths are being written as we move, right?
• 24:27
  Like these are stories from the past that they, they happen and,
• 24:30
  and they're there for a reason. But when that shift clicked or
• 24:34
  or or or hit for you to like, let's, let's keep that momentum
• 24:38
  going. Let's let's give space to these
• 24:40
  modern interpretations or these these real life experiences that
• 24:44
  are UPG. They're not, you know, from the
• 24:47
  past. But did I?
• 24:50
  Did I did I that clearly for you?
• 24:52
  Yeah, you did. And and unfortunately, I've got
• 24:55
  a real weird answer for you. It was I love weird.
• 24:59
  Oh, perfect. And that's weird with a wife.
• 25:02
  Yeah, I'm kidding. No, but it was actually
• 25:06
  meditating. It was a lot of little things
• 25:09
  over and over. A small period, over a long
• 25:11
  period of time, over like a year where I was like, you know, we
• 25:15
  all say that. We all just dismissed this.
• 25:17
  And it kind of bothered me little by little by little by
• 25:19
  little. And then Thor 5 came out and I
• 25:23
  had to sit there at the end of the movie and ponder the
• 25:28
  implications of what does that I, I, I'll get back to this.
• 25:36
  I swear, I, I swear I had to ponder the implications of what
• 25:41
  our personal experience with these stories actually means,
• 25:45
  with what does it mean to live with this pet, live on this
• 25:50
  path. I was sitting there looking at
• 25:52
  Taika Waititi's contribution to our I I I I would say Uvra.
• 26:01
  And I was sitting there thinking, there's got to be some
• 26:04
  way to fold this in not as Canon, but as at least inspired.
• 26:13
  At least this is consistent with what we know of Thor, that
• 26:18
  maybe, yeah, he maybe he might turn out to be a great dad
• 26:21
  because we've seen, you know, sorry about that.
• 26:28
  We've seen him. Are you good being good with
• 26:31
  children? Like when we see him with Uggard
• 26:33
  Loki when he gets the kid after he gets the kid from who broke
• 26:39
  his goat broke his goats from. The farmer there, yeah, he's
• 26:42
  like, now you, you, you've messed around with my goats.
• 26:44
  Now I'm taking your son as a as a slave.
• 26:47
  But he's also like, trying to take him under his wing.
• 26:50
  He's treating him well, he's raising him up and he's he's
• 26:53
  doing the right thing. So can we see sad God become Dad
• 26:57
  God? That's in our myth.
• 27:00
  That is absolutely 100% our myth.
• 27:03
  So I had to sit there and ponder that.
• 27:05
  And that's when it kind of hit me like, wait a minute, maybe I
• 27:07
  should start talking about this. I.
• 27:12
  Think it was on a re watch not on the initial watching by the
• 27:15
  way. So just I get my my time went
• 27:18
  wrong. Now I got you, but it's
• 27:21
  interesting because you're talking about pop culture
• 27:24
  cinema, you know which so much of like here's like where I get
• 27:30
  like the hang up sometimes with people is with the newcomers
• 27:34
  into heathenry. It's like Marvel the the MCU,
• 27:38
  right, That's entertainment in in some of those characters may
• 27:42
  definitely have been created with inspiration from Nora Smith
• 27:52
  and legend. But let's be clear, like the the
• 27:56
  the Thor from Marvel's like from Marvel's from the MCU, you know,
• 28:01
  the lean Chris Hemsworth, blonde haired like even from before
• 28:05
  Chris Hemsworth. But like the MCU like this is
• 28:07
  not the the Thor of lore. He's big, he's burly, he's red
• 28:11
  bearded. He, you know, and he's just, you
• 28:14
  know, ready. To thrash.
• 28:16
  That aside, it's interesting to hear people's connection with
• 28:23
  how these figures are represented in pop culture.
• 28:26
  I did a podcast about this too, a couple seasons ago.
• 28:28
  You know, the gods in pop culture versus the gods of our,
• 28:33
  our myth. And one of the, one of the, one
• 28:35
  of the places that we went in that conversation was looking at
• 28:37
  things like the MCU, but also like the God of War franchise.
• 28:43
  I don't know if you're a gamer, if you've explored that
• 28:47
  storyline with the more recent God of War iterations where
• 28:52
  Kratos is in like Scandinavia and like, you know, Ryan Hurst
• 28:58
  voices Thor in that and and Thor is like this kind of pot
• 29:05
  bellied, lumbering, you know, berserker looking type red
• 29:09
  headed guy. And like, that's the Thor of
• 29:11
  myth that like, if you think about like what the Lord depicts
• 29:14
  him as, it's a modern retelling or a modern representation of
• 29:19
  something that's a bit more lore accurate.
• 29:21
  And then you have like the Balder figure in that story,
• 29:25
  which is like, well, this is nothing like what the lore
• 29:27
  portrays him as, at least not in the tradition, like, and not
• 29:30
  like Snorri's stories, you know what I mean?
• 29:33
  Like you look at like Saxo Grammaticus and, and, and the
• 29:36
  Dane, the Danish retelling of, of those figures and, and Balder
• 29:41
  is, is a bit more, is a bit more of like an active role.
• 29:47
  It's a different story and he has a different perspective on
• 29:50
  things. Whereas in Snorri's telling,
• 29:53
  Balder's kind of like this, just silent can do no wrong.
• 29:57
  Everybody loves him the best and the brightest, you know, almost
• 30:02
  like Christ like. No, I I think favorite child.
• 30:08
  Yeah, yeah, you know, Frigga doesn't want to anything to come
• 30:13
  to harm to him. So she she demands that all
• 30:16
  living things take an oath to not harm him.
• 30:19
  And then, you know, misses the the the famed, you know,
• 30:23
  mistletoe that the whole mistletoe incident.
• 30:27
  Yeah, No, it's just, it's, it's really interesting to hear you
• 30:29
  talk about stories and how these old stories, right.
• 30:34
  Which, you know, can I say for sure that it was UPG at the
• 30:39
  time? I can't say for sure, but I'm,
• 30:40
  but I'm, I, I really think that so much of what our lore is
• 30:45
  built around is that at one point in time somebody had an
• 30:48
  experience and told somebody else about the experience.
• 30:53
  And then the experience became part of the culture.
• 30:55
  Because we're all like, we're all in the same very closely
• 30:59
  knit society. It's very tribal.
• 31:02
  We're very close, closely knit, right?
• 31:04
  So then the stories became the lore that became the the belief
• 31:09
  system or the faith or the religion, whatever you want to
• 31:13
  call it, of a culture of, of a people.
• 31:16
  So it's, it's framed around possibly someone or someone's
• 31:22
  UPG at the time, right And. Oh, sorry.
• 31:28
  No, that's, that's kind of like, you know, it kind of led me into
• 31:30
  this like whole thing of like, well, what are we doing now in
• 31:32
  modern times to realize like, and it was, it's more of a
• 31:37
  question really. Do you think that we are in saga
• 31:40
  times ourselves? Are we the lore writers?
• 31:42
  Are we the saga? Are we the keepers of the story,
• 31:45
  the storytellers now? Are we, are we in a position in
• 31:49
  modern times to kind of continue the myths and and write the
• 31:53
  stories as we're experiencing them here and now?
• 31:57
  I mean, Thorf and Karlsefni was a real person, so I mean, those
• 32:03
  sagas happen to real people. Our stories are no less
• 32:07
  important just because they're happening in the here and now.
• 32:10
  Just because, you know, your saga might happen to be, I don't
• 32:16
  know, maybe a ROM com about you and your girlfriend or your
• 32:19
  boyfriend or whatever and these hilarious adventures.
• 32:23
  Or maybe it might be a mystery, or maybe it might be a workplace
• 32:28
  drama, or who knows what your story actually is, right?
• 32:34
  It's rude to assume that a character knows the knows the
• 32:38
  genre of the story they're in. So you do the best that you can
• 32:43
  and you make the best that you can and the and living in your
• 32:48
  own story like that whole mythopoetic, you know, Joseph
• 32:53
  Campbell sort of thing. Interesting reference, yeah.
• 33:03
  The whole Joseph Campbell thing of like, you are your own hero.
• 33:07
  You need to do in your life what needs to get done.
• 33:12
  And yeah, it's not as exciting as it used to be, but maybe the
• 33:15
  story would just be as as pertinent.
• 33:17
  Maybe if we embellish it a little bit at a mythify it at a
• 33:22
  punchline. As long as that mythical truth
• 33:26
  of get off your ass, get stuff done is still upheld, why not
• 33:32
  tell that story? Why not tell that story?
• 33:36
  Absolutely. And you know, I'm big on the
• 33:39
  idea that we do live in saga times because just I mean, you
• 33:43
  don't have to really take that far of a step back and look
• 33:46
  around you to realize we are living in saga times and we have
• 33:51
  been for a while. But if you look closer, if you
• 33:57
  look, if you, if you turn that lens from without and turn it
• 34:01
  within, I just recently, you know, I've told the story.
• 34:07
  I've told the story here on, on on the podcast.
• 34:09
  I think it was last season, my own saga or, or, or, or a
• 34:14
  section of my life, right? The saga of the Heron that flies
• 34:17
  to hell. And I recently published it.
• 34:20
  It's available. I'll leave links for, for, for,
• 34:22
  for the listeners and the viewers.
• 34:25
  It's, it's available in paperback on Lulu.
• 34:28
  You can also download digital copies on Barnes and Noble in
• 34:30
  various places. But it is a mythic retelling of
• 34:34
  an actual experience that I had. And I've told it around
• 34:37
  campfires, I've told it around hearthfires.
• 34:41
  I've, I've, I've spoken these stories of my own experience.
• 34:45
  And now I want this story to be shared on a broader scale
• 34:50
  because what, what experience I had might inspire somebody to
• 34:56
  think of their own situations, their own lives, and be like,
• 35:01
  I'm, I'm, I'm writing my own myths.
• 35:03
  I'm, I'm writing my own sagas. My life itself is a saga.
• 35:08
  How many people write their stories as memoirs, as
• 35:12
  autobiographies? And it becomes this mythic tale
• 35:16
  of one person's life that you can read and, and almost find
• 35:20
  yourself beside them in that telling, like you hearing what
• 35:25
  they're saying by reading their words or listening to the audio
• 35:28
  version of it, whatever. And then you find yourself and
• 35:30
  you go, wow, I'm, I'm almost here with you in this.
• 35:33
  I'm, I'm connecting with it in this way and with the importance
• 35:38
  of storytelling. The skulls, the bards of ancient
• 35:41
  times. That's what it was about.
• 35:43
  It was about mythifying a situation or mythifying a tale
• 35:47
  and and turning it into something that can be remembered
• 35:52
  long after it's ever been experienced or a long, long
• 35:56
  after it's it was ever, you know, physically done.
• 36:00
  And but as to whether or not it's remains true is irrelevant
• 36:07
  because as long as it remains truth contains truth, that
• 36:11
  should really be more or less the, the, the goal here, because
• 36:18
  we're never going to get to because if you get a dry rundown
• 36:23
  of what actually happened, it wouldn't actually be that
• 36:25
  exciting. You don't get the context, you
• 36:28
  don't get the ironies, you don't get the the the the drama, the
• 36:33
  build up, the payoff. Yeah, that's where I go back to,
• 36:38
  you know, the the the the mythic retelling of a story, you know,
• 36:44
  oh, me walking down the road and having a problem along the way
• 36:47
  doesn't sound all that great. But when you mythify it and you
• 36:50
  and you turn these, you know, mundane things into larger than
• 36:56
  life forces and powers that you had to battle or whatever, like
• 37:00
  it becomes it. It, I think it speaks to the
• 37:03
  soul of us or it speaks to that inner part of ourselves that
• 37:05
  really is like looking for something to be inspired by or
• 37:10
  to, you know, sink our teeth into in a way I don't.
• 37:15
  Know 100% I think that, you know, feeding off of each other
• 37:19
  like gives us a sense that we're not alone in this.
• 37:24
  We're not alone in this adventure that we call life,
• 37:28
  which I think, you know, any good story will make you not
• 37:32
  like as much as you're with the character, the character's also
• 37:35
  with you. And if the character is, you
• 37:38
  know, profound enough, the character sticks with you,
• 37:41
  becomes a part of you, a voice in your head that you know, how
• 37:46
  would you know her Heracles take care of this?
• 37:48
  Or how would Ragnar Lothbrok take care of this?
• 37:50
  How would you know, you know, Torf and Carl Stephanie take
• 37:54
  care of this, which I only care about because I watch Finland
• 37:58
  saga. But let's not talk about That's
• 38:00
  neither here nor there. Yeah, but that's that's, that's
• 38:04
  an important part of your path, you know, like that that spoke
• 38:08
  to you and and that was worth mentioning so.
• 38:12
  Because I'm not sure how much your your listeners can take of
• 38:16
  me talking about I have no enemies.
• 38:21
  We won't know unless we get into it.
• 38:26
  Have you have you gotten up caught up with the with the
• 38:29
  anime of Inland Saga? I haven't.
• 38:33
  Oh, it's worth it. It's worth it.
• 38:35
  The first season is a little special, but the second season
• 38:39
  pays it off. Where, where, where can I find
• 38:42
  it? Where, where, where is it?
• 38:44
  Netflix, Netflix. OK, well, good, cuz I've got
• 38:50
  that. So that'll be the next thing.
• 38:51
  And I'm always looking for stuff like that too, you know, like I
• 38:53
  love a good saga. I love a good, you know,
• 38:57
  something that's just kind of that does it, that kind of flies
• 39:01
  under the radar of most critics, you know what I mean?
• 39:04
  Like it doesn't really get the the press that it deserves per
• 39:09
  SE. So yeah, I might, I might
• 39:12
  definitely check it out and see what it does for me.
• 39:16
  Yeah, thanks for the. Thanks for the plug there.
• 39:20
  No problem. Another thing I was, you know,
• 39:26
  going to maybe ask you about is, is, you know, the here and now
• 39:30
  obviously we're talking about bringing Heathenry from, you
• 39:35
  know, the past into the present and moving it into the into the
• 39:38
  future. So what does like if you want to
• 39:43
  call it worship or or veneration, right, whatever you
• 39:46
  want to call it, but worshipping the gods, venerating the gods,
• 39:49
  like what does that in the here and now look like for you in
• 39:53
  your own daily life and practice since you've come into this
• 39:59
  awareness, you know, since after COVID, you know, and then having
• 40:04
  this experience with the gods kind of and Freya specifically,
• 40:08
  kind of. Speaking to you in this altered
• 40:10
  state of consciousness through an illness, what does
• 40:16
  worshipping them or venerating them or giving them space in the
• 40:19
  here and now look like for you kind of in daily life and
• 40:24
  practice? Well, if well right now, because
• 40:28
  my life has been kind of all over the place lately, I haven't
• 40:30
  had my altar up. Normally it would be a lot of
• 40:33
  altar work, regular altar sessions, offerings, etcetera.
• 40:37
  That's how it usually is. Right now.
• 40:39
  Things are a little, things are in a little bit of flux, but I'm
• 40:43
  hoping to get things back under control.
• 40:46
  But it's very much a case of little things, little things,
• 40:51
  little things, little things. It is the little offerings.
• 40:53
  It is the 5 minutes. You think about Freya, or you
• 40:57
  think about Thor, you think about Odin, you think about
• 40:59
  Nord. You know, you hear a good quote
• 41:03
  about being peaceful and you think about Freyr.
• 41:08
  Those little things all add up eventually, because it it, it,
• 41:15
  it's like in the the Lay of Hendla, we've got Otar who was
• 41:24
  so persistent and so constant with the sacrifices.
• 41:28
  The fire pit turned the rock into into glass.
• 41:33
  So once you understand that when you do it the old fashioned way
• 41:37
  of just a regular pit fire, it takes a little while takes a lot
• 41:41
  of those little sacrifices 1 by 1 by 1 eventually gets you the
• 41:45
  glass. Now, nowadays you can do it with
• 41:48
  a blowtorch pretty darn quick. But in in those days, you know,
• 41:57
  it very much was those little moments constantly and being
• 42:02
  just living your life and giving what you can.
• 42:08
  Yeah, that's what it's look like for me.
• 42:13
  I think that's important for people to to realize, right,
• 42:15
  It's not about the big overture of anything, right.
• 42:20
  And I wonder if if so many people that come into heathen
• 42:24
  rethink that, you know, oh, I have to have an outdoor huger.
• 42:28
  You know, I have to have a they I have to be so far removed from
• 42:34
  my landscape. You know, this is another thing
• 42:36
  that I was going to get into like urban heathenry spirits of
• 42:40
  plague land viterate. You live in Baltimore, MD,
• 42:44
  which, for those that don't know that may be listening.
• 42:46
  Baltimore is a city. It's, it's urban living at the
• 42:50
  at the very least, but it's, it's a very small concentrated
• 42:55
  area like, and, and how we or how ones like yourself who live
• 43:02
  in these urban settings can connect with the faith or belief
• 43:09
  system or religion, whatever you want to call it, that is so
• 43:12
  nature focused. It's all it's about the, the
• 43:15
  vaitier of the land. It's about the spirit of the
• 43:18
  land. It's about the, you know,
• 43:19
  connecting, you know, because the gods are the gods and, and
• 43:22
  how we feel connected with them, with our own individual
• 43:25
  experiences are what they are. But, you know, so much of what I
• 43:30
  feel like Heathenry is at its core is, is it's so animistic
• 43:33
  and it's reconnecting and it's feeling a connection to nature
• 43:37
  and the spirit of that land that we live in and around.
• 43:41
  And you're in a very unique landscape or, or in a unique
• 43:45
  situation to have, you know, being drawn to something that is
• 43:52
  nature focused, right. Paganism in general is is a
• 43:54
  typically a nature themed or nature focused belief system.
• 43:59
  Heathenry especially right? Like we know that the ancient
• 44:02
  heathens, dramatic heathens and and the North heathens.
• 44:06
  They practice. Outside in nature, they were in
• 44:09
  sacred Groves, they were in the woods, they were in these nature
• 44:15
  places. So, you know, living in
• 44:18
  Baltimore, like that's, that's a bit of a far cry from the, the
• 44:22
  landscapes normally associated with, you know, Norse and
• 44:25
  dramatic beliefs and stuff. So what does it mean to you for
• 44:33
  like cities and in the in these, you know, urban landscapes to
• 44:37
  have a spirit, you know, the land Vetir the the spirit of the
• 44:42
  land. For me, it is about recognizing
• 44:46
  that nature is about recognizing that you are a you are.
• 44:55
  Do you remember the, the pale blue dots, the, the, the, the
• 44:59
  image of just that little blue dot of our earth?
• 45:04
  And it's about a pixel pixel wide, pixel small of just earth.
• 45:09
  And you have to think you are here.
• 45:13
  Doesn't matter if you are in the city, doesn't matter if you are
• 45:15
  in the forest, you are here. And eventually that forest will
• 45:21
  give way back to Hwy. The highway will give back to
• 45:24
  villages. Villages will give way to towns,
• 45:27
  towns will give way to cities. And it is a whole, it is a whole
• 45:35
  spectrum of understanding that how we relate to place, you
• 45:42
  know, if we're in good relation with place, meaning that we
• 45:45
  venerate the people who come and sweep the streets, we venerate
• 45:50
  the people who keep the, you know, the traffic lights
• 45:53
  working. We venerate all of these things
• 45:58
  because these are the things that keep our lives going.
• 46:01
  It's no different than back in the day when you would venerate
• 46:05
  the wind and you would venerate the ocean, you know, venerate in
• 46:08
  yord, you'd venerate Thor, you'd venerate whoever controlled the
• 46:11
  wind in the seas or whoever you felt that you would go to for
• 46:14
  those things. It's just that now those places
• 46:21
  also have to include things like, will my subway be on time?
• 46:25
  You know, these are the things that are that drive our lives.
• 46:32
  Yeah. Do you think that that's, do you
• 46:34
  think that that's a that's an interesting thing Like, you
• 46:38
  know, 'cause I don't have that lifestyle, I don't have the, I
• 46:47
  don't think of things in that way, right, 'cause I don't live
• 46:49
  it. But other listeners and viewers
• 46:52
  that that catch this, that, you know, might, you know, so urban
• 46:56
  spirit or the OR the spirit of the urban environment, how do
• 46:59
  you approach, you know, since you're, since you're living in
• 47:04
  this environment, Chloe, like how do you approach sensing that
• 47:08
  and honoring that and, and working with the spirits of
• 47:12
  place? Because, you know, generally
• 47:15
  speaking, an urban and city environments tend to be very
• 47:19
  noisy, chaotic, you know, highly developed.
• 47:21
  There's a lot of shit going on and, and, and it, and it, and it
• 47:26
  seems to be like chaotic in a way.
• 47:31
  So, so because you're so like, because that's your native
• 47:35
  landscape, like you, you, you are, are there.
• 47:38
  Like how do you, how do you approach giving, giving space to
• 47:41
  that and, and recognizing that and, and is that a thing to, to,
• 47:47
  for people that, that live in other highly developed areas
• 47:52
  that maybe they could learn something from?
• 47:54
  Well, what I would recommend is just a simple exercise.
• 47:57
  Go outside, go out to the train station, go out to the bus stop,
• 48:00
  go out to wherever it is that is loud, noisy, got a lot of shit
• 48:03
  going on. Take out your headphones, do not
• 48:07
  say anything. close your eyes, sit, listen, and let it wash
• 48:11
  over you. Just let it wash over you and
• 48:15
  know that you are part of this. Your breathing is part of this
• 48:18
  noise. Your, you're coughing, you're
• 48:21
  walking, you're every little thing that you're doing is
• 48:25
  contributing to this moment in this now.
• 48:28
  And there are so many intersections because of how
• 48:31
  stacked on top of we are. And you just have to sit there
• 48:36
  and feel that flow of life around you.
• 48:41
  And then, you know, it's a small simple exercise.
• 48:44
  It takes maybe about 5 minutes. And then what I find is that
• 48:52
  the, the, the, the feeling of spirit of place becomes much
• 48:59
  more welcoming. It now becomes, hey, make sure
• 49:03
  you use the trash can. Make sure you do this.
• 49:05
  Make sure you do that, but make sure that you are engaged with
• 49:08
  the world around you. And that's, that's, that's an
• 49:17
  interesting observation. Thank you for kind of breaking
• 49:20
  it down a bit because again, I don't, I don't have those
• 49:23
  day-to-day interactions. I live near a river, I live in a
• 49:28
  very residential area, but I'm still closely connected to
• 49:31
  nature. And so much of my, the way that
• 49:34
  I heathen and the way that a lot of my previous guests and, and
• 49:39
  audience and stuff is, is very nature focused.
• 49:41
  So to, to, to come into awareness with someone who lives
• 49:49
  a lifestyle in an environment that is much more urban and
• 49:53
  still recognizes that there is a spirit to that place.
• 49:57
  There is a spirit to the city. There's a spirit to this, that,
• 50:01
  that, that's animism at its core, like recognizing spirit in
• 50:06
  everything, not just the river and, and all that.
• 50:12
  So it's, it's an interesting perspective.
• 50:13
  I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm really keen on what you're saying and.
• 50:21
  Because. Yeah, just learning a little bit
• 50:22
  about new perspective. So thank you.
• 50:25
  Because really, when you look at it animistically, right, what is
• 50:28
  the difference between the iron in this screwdriver and the iron
• 50:31
  in my blood? Really.
• 50:34
  So, you know, once you get from that perspective to a much
• 50:39
  bigger perspective of, you know, what are the Vaits here around,
• 50:45
  you know, office parks, there's got to be that, that that sense
• 50:50
  of like, oh, there's work being done, there's business going on.
• 50:54
  There's, you know, Commerce and Industry and life itself is
• 51:00
  happening in these places. So why would not why would there
• 51:04
  not be those other what, what? Because from my perspective,
• 51:09
  these Vaits here, I feel like are not necessarily attracted to
• 51:16
  us, but rather they show up where we're at.
• 51:23
  They're they are, they're they are here whether we like them,
• 51:28
  whether we like it or not. Yeah, it's, it's their space,
• 51:31
  you know what I mean? Like and we're just kind of
• 51:33
  guests in that environment. We're, we're sharing space and
• 51:35
  that's the, that's the interesting relationship that
• 51:40
  that we have with these beings because we talk about the gods
• 51:45
  and we talk about our relationship with the gods and
• 51:48
  them sort of being in sacred space and time as, as being
• 51:53
  almost external from, from us, right?
• 51:55
  We we enter into ritual, we go into ceremony, separating
• 52:00
  ourselves or creating this place outside of a place, time outside
• 52:06
  of time. And then you have these other
• 52:08
  spiritual entities, the Vaitier, who are in the same space and
• 52:13
  time that we are. They, they, they exist and they
• 52:15
  thrive in the same profane space that we do in our physical
• 52:20
  forms. And we are living and coexisting
• 52:23
  with them. And acknowledging that requires
• 52:29
  work. It requires awareness, it
• 52:31
  requires presence, acknowledging that we are sharing, we're
• 52:36
  coexisting, we're cohabitating. And it's interesting that you
• 52:41
  say, you know, that the iron in the screwdriver and the iron in
• 52:45
  my blood, it, it makes me think of, you know, the skin like
• 52:48
  some, some, some of the things that that are displayed back
• 52:51
  here in the background of where I'm sitting.
• 52:54
  You know, these are animal skins.
• 52:57
  Is the skin of this animal a bison or a bear or a fox or
• 53:02
  anything that you see in the background?
• 53:05
  It's in the form of an instrument, it's in the form of
• 53:08
  a tool. But this but it's spirit exists
• 53:13
  as it did when it was alive, when it was breathing air, when
• 53:16
  it was feeding on the landscape, when it was walking on its
• 53:21
  hooves or paws or whatever that might the thing might be.
• 53:26
  It's just changed its existence into something else.
• 53:31
  I still consider these things as spirit.
• 53:34
  Like I still look at the spirit of the drum, the spirit of the
• 53:37
  rattle, the spirit of this thing, that or the other.
• 53:41
  It's it's, it's been transferred.
• 53:43
  It hasn't extinguished. You know what I mean?
• 53:46
  And. And I think that there's
• 53:48
  actually something that that that, that because that made me
• 53:52
  think of something because when you talk about, you know, the
• 53:56
  rattle coming, you know, with bare skin and the drum made of
• 53:59
  this skin and that skin and does it have the essence of those
• 54:03
  things that it was made from? Well, you're kind of talking
• 54:07
  about time. And when we start talking about
• 54:11
  like Heathenry in the here and now in the modern world, what we
• 54:16
  forget is that what we think of now, like the population center
• 54:21
  of like Baltimore or Philadelphia or New York, these
• 54:25
  places were once wild. These places were once not built
• 54:30
  on. They may have been inhabited.
• 54:33
  They may have been inhabited by the indigenous folk here, but
• 54:36
  were they developed? Were they settled?
• 54:39
  Like I know that, you know, there, there were some there.
• 54:42
  There are some that did, some that didn't or some groups that
• 54:46
  did, some groups that didn't. But overall, the, the idea that
• 54:53
  it would cease to have a veytir just because someone put a 711
• 54:58
  down, you know, does that chase away the veytir?
• 55:03
  You know, if you put up a Wawa, does does do the land spirits go
• 55:06
  away? I mean, does the presence of a,
• 55:10
  of a, of a photo mat of a laundromat make this all go
• 55:14
  away? I don't think so.
• 55:20
  Let's talk about that for a second.
• 55:21
  And then I want to get into something else.
• 55:22
  But like, does it chase away? Does it I, I'm keying in on
• 55:26
  something you're saying like, does it, does it chase away the
• 55:30
  spirit of the land that was there before it became so
• 55:35
  humanized, colonized maybe, if you will.
• 55:39
  Right 'cause let's face it, like so much of what happened here in
• 55:44
  on Turtle Island and so many, so much of these cities, yet you're
• 55:48
  right. They, they, they were sacred
• 55:52
  grounds. These were ancestral lands.
• 55:54
  So much of our place names here in the United States are
• 56:01
  recollection of indigenous population, you know, and, and,
• 56:07
  and does the erection of a Wawa or the erection of a you know
• 56:11
  which by the way, great, great chain in terms of sandwiches and
• 56:15
  stuff like you know, if you're not, if you, if you know, you
• 56:17
  know, you know, you know, you know, and it is.
• 56:21
  Gobbler season. I just want to, I just want to
• 56:24
  emphasize that right now it is gobbler season.
• 56:27
  Yeah, but does but but does but does.
• 56:29
  You know, the erection of those establishments chase away the
• 56:32
  spirit of the land that has been there for so long.
• 56:38
  That's an interesting question to, to be presented with
• 56:45
  because, you know, you look at Lalore, you look at the old
• 56:48
  stuff, you know, and then and the way that people interacted
• 56:55
  with the Vaitier, look at, look at the saga of Eagle
• 56:57
  Scullagrimson. If you're, if you're aware,
• 57:00
  right, like this guy erected A kneething pole towards the
• 57:06
  Kingdom of the king 'cause he was a, he was a rat bastard,
• 57:08
  right? And, and he erected this
• 57:10
  horsehead kneething pole to scare the Vaitier and, and, and,
• 57:15
  and by design, the land suffered, you know, it scared
• 57:21
  the veytir away. And that and that's a really
• 57:25
  interesting thing to to be aware of 'cause I know people listen
• 57:28
  to this podcast and they hear it from different sections of this
• 57:31
  continent and abroad. And what does the work of
• 57:36
  building something up for the sake of economy, commerce, jobs,
• 57:41
  right? What is it doing to the spirit
• 57:44
  of the land? Is it retaining the the
• 57:49
  nurturing aspect of what that spirit had to begin with?
• 57:53
  Or is it pushing them away and is an abandoning what is needed
• 58:00
  for the people of that land? And why are we suffering?
• 58:03
  Well, maybe it's because we've pissed off the Veitier, you
• 58:07
  know? This is why I try to be very
• 58:09
  nice to the trees in my backyard.
• 58:13
  That's what I'm saying, man, like the, the, you know, it, it,
• 58:15
  you know, everybody wants to talk crap about, you know, tree
• 58:18
  huggers and and earthing and this and that.
• 58:20
  Well, hey, listen, there's there.
• 58:22
  There's something to be said about why that it means so much.
• 58:26
  That's where your food comes from here.
• 58:32
  Say that again. Oh, so that's where your food
• 58:34
  comes from, by the way, It's the earth.
• 58:36
  Exactly. That's that's the literal thing
• 58:38
  that sustains you. They were here first and then we
• 58:43
  come in and we put up all this stuff that is, again, you know,
• 58:48
  in our modern minds to, to, to advance us or whatever.
• 58:53
  And, and, and then what does it do in the long run?
• 58:55
  It's, it's, it's an interesting thing to think about.
• 58:58
  I think really I. Mean, that's one of those things
• 59:01
  that occurred to me when I was playing Satisfactory, which is
• 59:04
  this great 3D game where you turn a beautiful, lush alien
• 59:09
  planet into an Amazon warehouse. It's great, but as you're
• 59:14
  constructing, and that as I was constructing last, my last
• 59:17
  playthrough, I was sitting there thinking about how in a way,
• 59:24
  with farming economies, this is what the ancient heathens were
• 59:29
  doing. It was that they were
• 59:31
  transforming the land into something that they could
• 59:33
  exploit. And they've been doing and we've
• 59:36
  been doing this ever since time immemorial.
• 59:40
  So what does it mean when we've exploited the land and now that
• 59:43
  it's no longer being used for primarily for agriculture, but
• 59:47
  now for, you know, industry, what does it mean that, you
• 59:53
  know, what does all that mean? No idea.
• 59:56
  I wish I had some idea, otherwise I'd be a more
• 59:58
  interesting guest. Well, no, I think, you know,
• 1:00:01
  that's that's a really pivotal thing to, to be aware of,
• 1:00:05
  especially coming from someone who has identified as, you know,
• 1:00:09
  Vana true, right. The Venier gods are the gods of
• 1:00:13
  agriculture. Freya is kind of woven into that
• 1:00:17
  fabric in, in terms of, of, because she's the daughter of
• 1:00:20
  Njord and the brother of Freyr. But like agriculture, peace in
• 1:00:25
  the land and, and cultivating things that are good for a
• 1:00:29
  symbiotic relationship between humans and, and the spirits of
• 1:00:34
  the land and how the land nurtures us.
• 1:00:36
  I, I saw something recently which confirms like, like
• 1:00:41
  dandelion, which is very prolific.
• 1:00:43
  It's, it's considered a weed here in the United States at
• 1:00:47
  least. But dandelion root did the
• 1:00:50
  leaves dandelions cures cancer or, or, or it can help with the,
• 1:00:59
  the, you know, killing the cancer cells and, and, and
• 1:01:06
  boosting the, the other cells in the body to, to, to combat the
• 1:01:10
  cancer and then become healthy. And I've, and I've seen
• 1:01:12
  countless examples of people who have used the dandelion in
• 1:01:19
  medicine form, whether it's boiling it, drinking it as a tea
• 1:01:23
  or eating the leaves or whatever.
• 1:01:26
  And they've lived long healthy lives and have even used it in
• 1:01:32
  cancer treatment. And I'm not here, you know, as a
• 1:01:35
  disclaimer, I'm not here to try to say like cancer, you know,
• 1:01:39
  the, the cure for cancers and dandelion, like I'm not, I'm not
• 1:01:42
  doing that. But I'm just saying like this is
• 1:01:46
  this is a a wildly available commodity that is indigenous to
• 1:01:52
  our land and the research speaks for itself like.
• 1:02:01
  Being able to see an interesting thing like being able to see
• 1:02:05
  past that intrusiveness and being able to see the utility of
• 1:02:08
  the thing that we can exploit the possibility that there is
• 1:02:13
  there that. Is not exploit, but yeah, maybe
• 1:02:17
  not exploit, but to be like, oh wow, it's been here all along
• 1:02:20
  and I wonder why, You know, like Mother Earth knows what her
• 1:02:26
  children needs. Maybe it's so prolific for a
• 1:02:30
  reason, you know what I mean? Definitely, definitely.
• 1:02:37
  But kind of on a shift shifting a little bit because I know we,
• 1:02:40
  we've gotten into some really good content, you know, we,
• 1:02:42
  we've gotten into some really good topics of, of, of
• 1:02:44
  conversation. But I do want to raise awareness
• 1:02:49
  to what you've been doing or what you you, you started with
• 1:02:53
  the Everhart Empire, Everhart empire.com.
• 1:02:58
  So you shared with me a link that people can go to on
• 1:03:06
  everhartempire.com and download a digital.
• 1:03:11
  Have them all. Yes.
• 1:03:14
  So so if you wouldn't mind, let let's let's get into to to some
• 1:03:17
  of the modern stuff. Let let let's talk about what
• 1:03:19
  everhart empire was for you, the mind fire that that sort of
• 1:03:24
  launched that whole thing. And then what brought you into
• 1:03:27
  this digital have them all app creation.
• 1:03:31
  I have it on my phone. I, I, I got, I got to see a lot
• 1:03:34
  of it's the, the notes, the, the interactiveness of it, the
• 1:03:38
  different translations that you can, you know, you see the old
• 1:03:41
  Norse, you just, you see different English translations
• 1:03:43
  of it. So let's talk a little bit about
• 1:03:45
  that, if you don't mind. Oh, definitely.
• 1:03:49
  It came about I was listening. One day I was just hanging out,
• 1:03:52
  just listening to Northwest Kindred, Gothi Beaudvar.
• 1:03:59
  Good stuff, by the way. Good guy, good, great, great
• 1:04:02
  people you know. Check them out.
• 1:04:05
  And they were mentioning, you know how hard it is to find a
• 1:04:09
  Hove em all that you can carry around with you from a reputable
• 1:04:13
  author. And they had these pocket Hove
• 1:04:16
  em alls from a, from a translator that wasn't so great.
• 1:04:19
  The translation wasn't so great. And they also themselves did not
• 1:04:23
  come from a great place. And I was sitting there thinking
• 1:04:27
  for just one moment, we all have these things in our pockets.
• 1:04:32
  We have these things in our pockets.
• 1:04:35
  Why not just put the half of them all there instead of like a
• 1:04:38
  text file? Let's get an app.
• 1:04:39
  Let's get something going. It was kind of born really out
• 1:04:44
  of out of jealousy for Christians and the Bible app.
• 1:04:49
  It's like, I know these things can be done.
• 1:04:51
  Like I've, you know, I've been a software developer for 17 years.
• 1:04:57
  How hard could it be really? Yes, I started in 22,008.
• 1:05:03
  Yeah, 17 years now. Good gravy, where did the time
• 1:05:06
  go? We're dating ourselves.
• 1:05:11
  I'm going to turn into a bag of bones if I think about that for
• 1:05:14
  today for any longer than I have to.
• 1:05:19
  But yeah, it, it, it was actually working on that and,
• 1:05:22
  and, and writing code and committing code to a central
• 1:05:25
  repository and having all of that professional, all that
• 1:05:31
  professional instinct in me, you know, that's what originally got
• 1:05:37
  me to, to, to reach out when I saw your thing saying, Hey, I'm
• 1:05:41
  looking for guests. It was that experience that,
• 1:05:45
  that, that, that raw experience of I've been coding like Odin's
• 1:05:49
  watching, I've been coding like the 8 like, like someone's going
• 1:05:54
  to check my work. And I think I finally have a way
• 1:06:00
  to describe it because I've been without I, I, I've been
• 1:06:05
  struggling on this because the idea right, that anyone would
• 1:06:14
  check our work in this, in this thing we call Heathenry feels a
• 1:06:19
  little absurd. The idea that the gods
• 1:06:22
  themselves would do it feels even more absurd.
• 1:06:25
  But as I'm sitting there writing the code and I'm sitting there
• 1:06:28
  building and doing, I just like what else is going to happen
• 1:06:32
  here if not for Odin's own attention?
• 1:06:37
  In some of the circles I run in, if there's there's disagreement
• 1:06:42
  about whether or not the gods even care about us at all.
• 1:06:45
  And I'm sitting there having to think, you know, I'm doing
• 1:06:47
  something that I, I don't think anyone has done in Heathenry.
• 1:06:55
  And I have to sit there and wonder.
• 1:06:57
  Why do you think that is? Oh, I actually have an answer to
• 1:07:00
  this and I've been thinking about it for weeks.
• 1:07:05
  It is because our religion tends to attract blue collar folk and
• 1:07:10
  English majors, people who are really into stories, people who
• 1:07:16
  are really into The Who are really into the whole
• 1:07:19
  existential thing of, of, of being of, of getting things done
• 1:07:27
  here in the here and now. But not a lot of technical
• 1:07:29
  people. You don't get a lot of software
• 1:07:32
  engineers who, who get into paganism.
• 1:07:38
  There's just something about that nature that call the nature
• 1:07:42
  jet just doesn't fit for a lot of tech people like me,
• 1:07:47
  Unfortunately For me, though, I do love the call the nature.
• 1:07:50
  And I love sitting in parks and I love sitting, you know,
• 1:07:54
  wherever we can get trees, wherever we can get foliage and
• 1:07:58
  greenery, wherever we can find that.
• 1:08:02
  I am definitely there. But that is such a minority
• 1:08:08
  opinion among my cohort that I'm basically the only one doing
• 1:08:12
  this. This is a really interesting
• 1:08:20
  place to to to arrive because we have seen a great insurgence of
• 1:08:27
  AI within our everyday existence.
• 1:08:35
  If you go to Google something right, what's the answer that
• 1:08:38
  you get? It's an AI generated answer.
• 1:08:41
  The AI summary. You know, and a lot of people
• 1:08:47
  are relying on that as their answer to things.
• 1:08:56
  But it's an interesting relationship as we talk about
• 1:09:02
  heathenry and and and and things in the modern time, right?
• 1:09:06
  Bringing things from the past into the into the present into
• 1:09:10
  the future. One of my nearest and dearest
• 1:09:13
  friends and brothers of mine has been developing the system that
• 1:09:17
  he refers to as agromancy. So it's a very nature based
• 1:09:23
  system. He has his own calendar, he has
• 1:09:28
  his own alphabet, he has his own language, he has his own
• 1:09:31
  everything. He's been doing this for like 30
• 1:09:32
  years, since high school. It's it's wild.
• 1:09:36
  And I got to spend, you know, I've, I've, I've been friends
• 1:09:40
  with him for now, you know, 7-8 years now, I think close to, and
• 1:09:45
  I just got back from a weekend long primitive camp trip.
• 1:09:49
  We hiked 8 1/2 miles up into the mountains, stayed at a primitive
• 1:09:55
  cabin. And we get to talking about
• 1:09:57
  these things, you know, and how he is integrating his system and
• 1:10:06
  feeding this information that he's worked on for, you know,
• 1:10:09
  the last two to three decades into AI and how AI, you know,
• 1:10:16
  responds to these whole things. And, and it makes me think of
• 1:10:23
  like the gods of, of, of modern age, right?
• 1:10:26
  The gods of like our ancient ancestors and what they were
• 1:10:33
  recognizing them as Odin for, for example, right this, this,
• 1:10:37
  this wanderer, this multifaceted archetype of, you know, the
• 1:10:44
  highest and and and the most chief of the gods seeking
• 1:10:49
  knowledge philosophy is is is probably in the wheelhouse of of
• 1:10:54
  the Odin archetype, if you, if you will.
• 1:10:57
  Oh, definitely. And how that and how and how,
• 1:11:01
  what, what modern like the, how AI and all the these, these
• 1:11:05
  types of things become something that it's, it's a delicate
• 1:11:12
  balance, right? Like you can go so far into it
• 1:11:15
  that you lose parts of yourself or, or a parts of the human self
• 1:11:21
  and just let AI take over. Or are you really in it?
• 1:11:26
  Are you, are you? Are you really feeding that
• 1:11:28
  machine? Are you, are you, are you?
• 1:11:31
  And it sounds like you know from from what you're saying as as a
• 1:11:34
  software engineer that predates AI.
• 1:11:38
  You know what I mean? Like that that's been something
• 1:11:40
  that's been active before AI ever became a thing in in our
• 1:11:46
  modern context. But what what the the archetype
• 1:11:53
  of Odin and and the wanderer and the seeker of knowledge and this
• 1:11:57
  this sort of the madness that ensues or that or that comes
• 1:12:01
  with. That pursuit of, yeah, that
• 1:12:05
  pursuit and intake of of as much knowledge and as much
• 1:12:08
  understanding of the world as you can get.
• 1:12:10
  Yeah, it is so much perspective that I am not surprised that
• 1:12:16
  people are having struggles with keeping up with just how much AI
• 1:12:21
  is able to give them. Like, personally, I believe that
• 1:12:28
  since AI cannot be whimsical, it cannot be trusted.
• 1:12:34
  But that doesn't mean that there's not utility there for
• 1:12:37
  it. Because I remember like when I
• 1:12:38
  was writing the Digital Hoffa Mall, I was running into certain
• 1:12:42
  weird problems. And more often than not when I
• 1:12:46
  would Google the problem, it would turn out that the the more
• 1:12:53
  than half the time it turned out the auto generated summary was
• 1:12:56
  correct. And what do we do with that?
• 1:13:00
  How do we limit ourselves such that we are not giving
• 1:13:05
  everything to this thing that we've built for ourselves, this
• 1:13:09
  AI? How do we maintain a grip on our
• 1:13:14
  own humanity? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:18
  How do How do we preserve our autonomy?
• 1:13:22
  Yeah. And how do we not rely on AI?
• 1:13:27
  How do we leverage it? How do we use it, but how do we
• 1:13:32
  responsibly do it? Because when computers started
• 1:13:38
  first coming out, we had these questions about computer
• 1:13:40
  addiction, people spending hours and hours and hours on the
• 1:13:44
  computer. Now we've got phones, now we've
• 1:13:47
  got tablets, Now we've got this, now we've got that.
• 1:13:49
  It's all normalized. You know, 20 years ago you told
• 1:13:54
  someone that you spent 20, you spent 5060 hours a week on the,
• 1:13:59
  on the Internet. They would say, what's your
• 1:14:02
  problem? Whereas now you just have your
• 1:14:05
  phone and you're in the middle. You know, you're, you're at the
• 1:14:08
  DMV and you're waiting in line. You got 5 minutes, you're going
• 1:14:11
  to play Wordle or something? Yeah, well, do you see, like, do
• 1:14:20
  do you see, like, you know, God archetypes, right?
• 1:14:24
  Do you see Odin as a God who had who, who evolves with humanity's
• 1:14:31
  intellectual growth? Like how might he manifest in
• 1:14:36
  modern pursuits of knowledge? He is known in the lore as right
• 1:14:42
  the wanderer, like always pursuing knowledge and, and
• 1:14:45
  we're in modern times and, and how we acknowledge or recognize
• 1:14:49
  that, that that figure and, and how many modern heathens would
• 1:14:53
  look to Odin while leveraging such tools as we have now, like
• 1:15:00
  the AI engines, whether it's ChatGPT or Gemini or whatever
• 1:15:03
  the hell, right? Right, if I had six months to
• 1:15:09
  write this thesis because there is a lot to be be said here.
• 1:15:15
  There is a lot to be said here because like Odin as as as the
• 1:15:20
  symbol of like our not just as an archetype of us, but what is
• 1:15:28
  possible in the world. Like you strip away all of our
• 1:15:32
  physical meat parts, but you still have the base humanity of
• 1:15:35
  feelings and emotion and understanding of the world.
• 1:15:43
  The overall. And I guess what I'm really
• 1:15:49
  trying to say here is that I would not want to speculate too
• 1:15:53
  much on that because I don't think that that's, I think
• 1:15:56
  that's a little outside my wheelhouse, however.
• 1:16:02
  It's all opinion, you know, I, I, you know, I'm all just like,
• 1:16:04
  like I want to hear what the mind fire is doing.
• 1:16:09
  Oh, I that, that that's one of those things where I just, I, I
• 1:16:12
  have no idea where to start. Like, like, what do you do?
• 1:16:16
  Like if you gave Odin Wikipedia, what would happen?
• 1:16:21
  And it's one of those things that has me thinking like, the
• 1:16:24
  gods are great. They gave they, you know, they
• 1:16:26
  have a spear that can never miss and a boat that folds up.
• 1:16:30
  But we invented Wikipedia and the PlayStation so.
• 1:16:37
  Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a different it, it's definitely a,
• 1:16:41
  an interesting lens to kind of view things through with, you
• 1:16:46
  know, Odin as this secret knowledge and philosophy and
• 1:16:52
  modern thought and how that evolves over time and, and the
• 1:16:55
  various influences that come from such things, you know.
• 1:17:01
  Yeah, And, and, and I think that that that hunger for knowledge
• 1:17:07
  drives so much of it. It, it, it drives the human mind
• 1:17:14
  more than it, and it drives it to places that, you know, really
• 1:17:18
  it shouldn't have gone there. Like when we invented what's
• 1:17:21
  called dioxygen difluoride, which is a molecule that does
• 1:17:26
  not want to exist. Very rarely on a status sheet,
• 1:17:30
  when you see explosion, you'll see usually exothermic, vigorous
• 1:17:35
  exothermic reaction. No.
• 1:17:37
  We have invented something that we would need to describe as
• 1:17:40
  explosive because of that drive, because of that need.
• 1:17:45
  Did it need to exist? Probably not.
• 1:17:50
  But in that madness, I think that we do find that the overall
• 1:18:01
  that the overall desire is there for, and it goes back to what I
• 1:18:07
  was saying about responsibility. We need to be responsible with
• 1:18:11
  our consumption of knowledge and information lest we go what?
• 1:18:15
  Because I remember in the Hovel Mall, I believe it's 32.
• 1:18:20
  But not be not not be too wise. Yeah, yeah, you can.
• 1:18:26
  You can go too far. You can get too hard in the
• 1:18:28
  paint. You can get too hard in the
• 1:18:30
  paint, you can know too much and you will lose.
• 1:18:35
  And I think you you'll you'll mostly.
• 1:18:36
  What I think you mostly lose there is perspective, because
• 1:18:40
  once you get so narrow in on some piece of knowledge, you
• 1:18:44
  lose all context for anything else.
• 1:18:47
  Yeah, that's, I think that's where madness resides, you know,
• 1:18:53
  and, and that's an interesting aspect of Odin as well, right?
• 1:18:57
  The pursuit of knowledge and, and the madness that is
• 1:18:59
  associated with Odin, right? You can lose your mind.
• 1:19:07
  He, he fears for the loss of his mind, but he fears more of the
• 1:19:12
  loss of his memory. But that's an aspect of Odin
• 1:19:17
  that, hey, look, if you're going to get into that, get, get ready
• 1:19:24
  to embrace that aspect of it. If you're not prepared to divest
• 1:19:31
  and, and, and give space to that aspect of of the divinity, you
• 1:19:39
  know what I mean? Because, you know, you talk to
• 1:19:41
  people how I'm an Odinsman. I'm like, oh, wow, you're a
• 1:19:43
  special 1. Like this is an interesting
• 1:19:47
  conversation as such, you know? Oh, definitely.
• 1:19:52
  It's it's, it's like one of those things where it's like, I
• 1:19:54
  don't know how many years I've got left, so I might as well get
• 1:19:57
  weird with it. Let's go.
• 1:20:00
  Let's go but on the but. On that note, though, I I just
• 1:20:06
  have to know what would be your perspective on like the the
• 1:20:15
  this, this, this notion that not that knowledge could be
• 1:20:21
  forbidden, but because knowledge or that knowledge could be
• 1:20:24
  unuseful, that there could be knowledge out there that just
• 1:20:28
  does not have any use, does not have any utility, does not
• 1:20:32
  knowledge that does not have power.
• 1:20:43
  Yeah, I think that it's a it's, it's a delegate.
• 1:20:50
  So, so there's there's a level of triage that that has to take
• 1:20:54
  place. A lot of people like to say you
• 1:20:59
  don't knowledge is power. I know so much.
• 1:21:03
  Therefore that equates to some, some some degree of, you know,
• 1:21:08
  authority, right? I have, I have, I, I, I, I can
• 1:21:13
  speak from a, a level of authority because I know so
• 1:21:16
  much. But what does that really
• 1:21:20
  translate to in, in a practical sense?
• 1:21:24
  You know, what I know in a contextual application may not
• 1:21:31
  mean anything to this group of people and it might mean
• 1:21:35
  something to that group of people.
• 1:21:36
  So this, this, this like blind pursuit of knowledge, it's a
• 1:21:45
  rabbit hole, you know, you, you get lost in it.
• 1:21:50
  So where is the where is the practical application of this
• 1:21:55
  knowledge? Where can what I know be applied
• 1:21:59
  for the good of my people 'cause my people aren't your people,
• 1:22:04
  your people aren't my people, your people aren't, you know
• 1:22:07
  what I mean? And, and, and there's that
• 1:22:10
  divestiture, there's that, that, that separation of we're all our
• 1:22:14
  own autonomous beings and, and the sovereignty of a self is
• 1:22:19
  important as well. But when you look at Heathenry
• 1:22:21
  and you look at what Heathenry means as as like a, a tribal
• 1:22:26
  sort of construct of, of small unit societal things, certain
• 1:22:34
  things are going to mean something to, to, to a subset
• 1:22:40
  of, of, of people that aren't going to mean something to
• 1:22:42
  another subset. So I don't know, like I like to
• 1:22:51
  learn a lot of things. I like to, to hear, but I also
• 1:22:55
  don't apply that knowledge to what feeds my, you know, my
• 1:23:02
  tribe. Like, like what, what, what,
• 1:23:04
  what's going to serve, what's going to be of service to me and
• 1:23:08
  my people. I'll invest in that.
• 1:23:11
  If it doesn't, OK, I I picked it up, I got it, but I'm also not
• 1:23:15
  going to. Yeah.
• 1:23:17
  It has no utility, no use, no exploitable.
• 1:23:22
  And then, and I hate to and I hate to harp on that word
• 1:23:24
  exploit, but unfortunately that is one of the most it it, it is
• 1:23:29
  surprisingly, it is surprisingly descriptive about what we do as
• 1:23:33
  people, especially to the landscape.
• 1:23:36
  But that's neither here nor there.
• 1:23:38
  Yeah, well, the exploit, I mean, yeah, I mean, exploit has I
• 1:23:41
  think connotations of like taking advantage of like I'm,
• 1:23:46
  I'm, I'm using this resource for my benefit and and it's somehow
• 1:23:53
  taking away from somebody else's or something else's benefit to
• 1:23:58
  like it it, it's selfish, like sucking the resource or
• 1:24:03
  whatever. Like exploitation has that
• 1:24:04
  connotation in what we're talking about.
• 1:24:09
  But like, we come from different backgrounds, you know, like you,
• 1:24:12
  for example, have come from a background of, you know,
• 1:24:16
  agnostic into Pagan, into heathen, into a transgender
• 1:24:20
  identity with Freya being a very focal point of your aspect of,
• 1:24:26
  of identity of things. Obviously because of, you know,
• 1:24:30
  Vandeheim vibes like that, that is a, that is a echo that is a
• 1:24:34
  call to where you come from and, and, and, and things that you've
• 1:24:39
  felt needed to be, you know, attention being focused on,
• 1:24:45
  right? And with Freya, there's this,
• 1:24:49
  there's this obvious focus on femininity or, or feminism,
• 1:24:55
  right? Yep.
• 1:24:57
  So in what ways do you see that that the this, like modern
• 1:25:02
  feminism or modern feminist movements, reflects aspects of
• 1:25:06
  Freya in your experience as a transgender person navigating
• 1:25:11
  through the space and, and finding yourself and being an
• 1:25:14
  advocate or being a voice through Vanaheim vibes and and
• 1:25:19
  all that. What what what what I will point
• 1:25:22
  out initially is that we have in the fighting in Loki's fighting
• 1:25:31
  in Locust Center, we have the accusations of Freya's, you
• 1:25:35
  know, proclivities, but later, but other elsewhere in the guilt
• 1:25:40
  beginning the government of guilty, we find out she only has
• 1:25:43
  three kids. She only has two kids.
• 1:25:47
  She does a lot of canoodling, but only has two kids.
• 1:25:50
  So how I, I feel like it's a trap, but I feel like it's a
• 1:25:56
  trap. I'm worth I think it's worth
• 1:25:59
  stepping into of saying that Freya would have at least some
• 1:26:04
  association with that, with that side of feminism, the
• 1:26:13
  pro-choice, my body, my rules, you know, Miss magazine bra
• 1:26:19
  burning feminism. I think we can get AII think
• 1:26:24
  it's a trap to say Freya can be seen in that.
• 1:26:27
  But I think it's, you know, it's it's also unavoidable.
• 1:26:32
  You know, when, when, when, when sex amongst the gods does result
• 1:26:36
  in children canonically multiple times.
• 1:26:42
  What are we supposed to make of that fact?
• 1:26:44
  And abortion? And I don't want to bring up
• 1:26:46
  that topic either because it's a bit heavy.
• 1:26:49
  It's, you know, it's a little, it's a little more than I, than
• 1:26:54
  I anticipated talking about tonight.
• 1:26:57
  No, it's cool, you know, get into it if you want to or not.
• 1:27:00
  If you don't, again, like I said before, open book.
• 1:27:04
  But if it's a thing that we don't want to get into, I'm fine
• 1:27:06
  with it because I don't have, I really don't have a horse in
• 1:27:09
  that race. But oh.
• 1:27:13
  But I, I think that's just it. It's just today.
• 1:27:16
  Tonight's not the night for it. Yeah, I, I would need, I would
• 1:27:19
  need, I would need a bottle of liquor and, and a lot of
• 1:27:22
  screaming. Heard that?
• 1:27:25
  Word for it to even for it to even land correctly.
• 1:27:29
  It's just one of those issues for me.
• 1:27:32
  No, I heard that. Because it's like it.
• 1:27:33
  It's like, what is a woman, right?
• 1:27:36
  Well, it's whatever she wants. Damn well wants to be, right?
• 1:27:40
  Why not? I mean.
• 1:27:44
  I'm not that I don't know. So that I don't, again, I don't
• 1:27:46
  have the horse in that race. It's it's it's like that.
• 1:27:49
  Well, I mean, it's it's on you now to define manhood.
• 1:27:51
  And I think that it similar rules of play, whatever you feel
• 1:27:54
  like it means, whatever looks right, whatever feels right,
• 1:27:59
  whatever. I'm gonna have, yeah, I'm
• 1:28:01
  definitely going to have a, a, a, a worldview.
• 1:28:04
  And and and you know, something that is, is framed around my
• 1:28:07
  worldview that defines, you know, the, the masculine divine,
• 1:28:12
  what a man is, you know, the hunter gatherer, the provider,
• 1:28:16
  the, you know this and that. But as you, as you see
• 1:28:20
  throughout the lore, like there, there's a lot of with a lot of,
• 1:28:25
  there's a lot of fluidity too, you know, because, you know, you
• 1:28:29
  go back to the, the the therm speed, you know, obviously, you
• 1:28:31
  know, Freya was not about to be exploited to be Thrim's catch.
• 1:28:37
  And then Hamdall's like, we'll let Thor do it.
• 1:28:39
  And Thor's like, OK, fine, whatever.
• 1:28:42
  But then he also was like, whoosh, motherfucker, Bam.
• 1:28:46
  Anyway, the hammer down, you know what I mean?
• 1:28:48
  And, and, and so there's, there's there's an interesting
• 1:28:52
  thing about that story that is like, I'm going to, I'm going to
• 1:28:56
  be this thing for the for the sake of what needs to happen,
• 1:29:00
  I'm going to use some deception, right?
• 1:29:02
  We're going to use that aspect of an appearance to achieve what
• 1:29:10
  needs to happen. I've got to get my hammer back.
• 1:29:13
  What's the hammer? Hammer is masculine like it is
• 1:29:18
  a, it is a figure of masculine divinity.
• 1:29:20
  It, it is not just destruction, it is fertility.
• 1:29:23
  It, it is used in, in kennings, as you know, a tool of
• 1:29:28
  fertility. It's, it's not just a hammer of
• 1:29:32
  destruction. It's a hammer of cultivation.
• 1:29:34
  It's a hammer that has been, you know, call the hammer to bless
• 1:29:39
  this union, lay it on the bride's lap, right?
• 1:29:42
  So there's this presence at least, or this awareness in the
• 1:29:48
  lore of of the hammer as they sort of whether it's phallic or
• 1:29:52
  masculine seed giving aspect of that, you know what I mean?
• 1:30:01
  But in the process, he's presenting himself as the
• 1:30:04
  feminine right? Just and he's he's doing what he
• 1:30:09
  needs to to get that masculinity back.
• 1:30:12
  He's he's defining masculinity as as more or less inclusive to
• 1:30:19
  this activity. But not you're not less manly
• 1:30:25
  because you dressed in drag to get your hammer back is what I
• 1:30:28
  mean to say. Like it expands, it expands the
• 1:30:31
  definition in my mind because I'm so 'cause I'm also still
• 1:30:36
  thinking about Freyr and Freyr losing, giving up his sword for
• 1:30:39
  love. Oh, yeah, Like he was, he was so
• 1:30:43
  enamoured, right. I'm willing to give up this,
• 1:30:47
  this also phallic symbol of, of war, of of conquest, of, you
• 1:30:52
  know. And had he, and had he had a
• 1:30:56
  sword come Ragnarok, who knows, he might have survived.
• 1:31:01
  That's an interesting angle to take on it too, which is, you
• 1:31:05
  know, Frey Freyr is, is not a a, you know, you look at, you know,
• 1:31:10
  the Acer gods. These are war gods.
• 1:31:11
  The Venier gods are, are not. Well the Venier, the Venier are
• 1:31:20
  war enough gods that they were able to go toe to toe with the
• 1:31:23
  the Acer, so at least you know they have that.
• 1:31:29
  Yeah. I just meant that in the sense
• 1:31:31
  that like when you when you think of it as a as a like
• 1:31:35
  separation between. Oh, as a dichotomy.
• 1:31:39
  Like a dichotomy you see like OK the hammer can be destructive,
• 1:31:44
  but it also be cultivation. The sword you know as as being
• 1:31:48
  this. This as is an implement of war
• 1:31:51
  represented or, or wielded by a God like figure or, or a figure
• 1:31:57
  in the lore. That is not a war God 'cause Eng
• 1:32:00
  is, is, is, you know, Eng Freyr, NGV Freyr, right?
• 1:32:05
  That's, that's agriculture, that, that's the piece of the
• 1:32:09
  land. It's, it's not we're going to
• 1:32:11
  war, but it's, it's, it's this defense, it's this protection,
• 1:32:14
  it's this masculine. It's the seed, you know what I
• 1:32:18
  mean? It's that penetrative seed
• 1:32:23
  planting. Aspect I'm also reminded of the
• 1:32:28
  love of a father where it's it, it, it's, it's still nurturing,
• 1:32:35
  it's still coalescing, but it does focus on different aspects
• 1:32:39
  of life. Whereas the feminine might get
• 1:32:43
  us towards more emotional sides, things masculine might get us
• 1:32:49
  towards more, well, less, more concrete more, you know, less,
• 1:32:55
  less ephemeral ideas like feelings and love and all of
• 1:32:59
  that. It might get us into something a
• 1:33:01
  little bit more practical. Yeah, and that's a big part of
• 1:33:06
  the the, the, the whole like Norse heathen thing.
• 1:33:11
  Like everybody likes to think of it as like a war culture.
• 1:33:14
  Like that was a, that was a, an aspect of a seasonal thing, like
• 1:33:20
  to go Viking, to go raiding, to go do these like warlike
• 1:33:23
  activities. The majority of the people were
• 1:33:26
  farmers, man. They were just like trying to
• 1:33:28
  make a living and, and, and be peaceful.
• 1:33:30
  And, and, you know, definitely there were, there were certain
• 1:33:36
  aspects or, or, you know, tribal ideologies perhaps that that
• 1:33:45
  propagated the, the, the warlike mentality, the war ban culture.
• 1:33:51
  But what was it for? Right?
• 1:33:53
  It was, it was for preservation. It was, it was to like, I, I
• 1:33:57
  have what I have and I'm not going to just let somebody take
• 1:34:00
  it. You know, so therein I feel like
• 1:34:04
  is, is the masculine divine aspect of protection, right to
• 1:34:09
  fight for what is mine. I, I, I, I've earned this, I, I,
• 1:34:14
  this is mine. And I'm not going to let
• 1:34:16
  somebody come and take it. So the masculine, the vine is
• 1:34:20
  that protective, defensive aspect where and you know, and
• 1:34:27
  and the feminine divine also protects, but in a different
• 1:34:30
  sort of way. It is a it is a Grove.
• 1:34:33
  It is isn't you know, it it it, it encloses it it.
• 1:34:38
  Softness. The Birkana, yeah, it, it's
• 1:34:41
  softness, but it's, it's, it's, it's softness with a shell,
• 1:34:45
  right? I think I can get along with
• 1:34:46
  that. It's it's like protecting you,
• 1:34:49
  feeling you, but it's also like outside it's, it's hard, but
• 1:34:52
  inside it's soft kind of it, you know, sort of a thing.
• 1:34:59
  Yeah, this has been really awesome and I appreciate
• 1:35:04
  everything that we've talked about.
• 1:35:06
  I wanna kind of wrap things up a little bit, 'cause I know we've
• 1:35:08
  gone. Oh wow, an hour and a.
• 1:35:12
  Half hour and a half, yeah. And there's so much that we
• 1:35:16
  could probably even make a second episode, repeat episode
• 1:35:20
  about. But since we're like at an hour
• 1:35:22
  and a half, there's like some like rapid fire questions that I
• 1:35:25
  would like to just throw your way and see like what you would
• 1:35:31
  respond to with. Regard.
• 1:35:35
  Yeah, lightning round. Kind of like just shoot from the
• 1:35:38
  hip. Let's see what Chloe has to say
• 1:35:41
  about just something. So with Freya, right?
• 1:35:46
  All right. Falcon cloak, Falcon cloak or
• 1:35:50
  Bryson Gammon? Or Bricingaman.
• 1:35:54
  Yeah, as much as as much as I would love to fly, the FAA is a
• 1:35:59
  thing and and and I will not mess with them.
• 1:36:05
  And I don't even want to have to figure out what is the Federal
• 1:36:07
  Aviation Administration's opinion about magical, about
• 1:36:10
  magical cloaks. I just don't want to figure that
• 1:36:13
  out. Don't want to mess with it.
• 1:36:16
  Yeah, just get that that, that nice Amber.
• 1:36:20
  Get a nice Just get a nice piece of bling that you can wear to
• 1:36:23
  the club. Maybe it glows when you're
• 1:36:26
  feeling funky. OK.
• 1:36:31
  All right. Now Odin with a smartphone, do
• 1:36:37
  you think that he would text message or would he do like
• 1:36:41
  voice to text, voice to skaldic poetry like how would he use a
• 1:36:46
  smartphone? You think it would be text
• 1:36:47
  message or we do like voice to voice to text, voice to skaldic
• 1:36:51
  poetry in his use of of such a device?
• 1:36:55
  Given what he did to get the ability to text, I would imagine
• 1:36:59
  that not only would he text, you would text like one of those
• 1:37:01
  people who would. Every sentence is its own text
• 1:37:04
  message. He's one of those texters, in my
• 1:37:08
  opinion at least. OK, either or he just gets
• 1:37:13
  really long winded like like he does in the when when he's
• 1:37:18
  fighting with Thor in that. Oh no, Harbut's youth.
• 1:37:25
  Yes. Harbut's youth, yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:28
  Where he's like, he's harboured across the river and yeah, yeah,
• 1:37:31
  your mother was such a this and that.
• 1:37:33
  Yeah, yeah. Oh, oh, he would be great at
• 1:37:35
  posting. He'd be great on Twitter.
• 1:37:40
  He'd be the one that if you send the text to, you'd see those
• 1:37:43
  dots. Yeah.
• 1:37:46
  It's like, when are you finished?
• 1:37:47
  It's 5 minutes and it's just nothing but those, just those
• 1:37:50
  dots. Yeah, and they just said that
• 1:37:51
  wall of text just just it's you. Awesome answer by the way, thank
• 1:37:59
  you. So which city land Viteer do you
• 1:38:01
  think would be the most chaotic? Gritty, gritty, Gritty from
• 1:38:10
  Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Flyers mascot.
• 1:38:13
  Fucking scumbags dude. I'll tell you what.
• 1:38:16
  Hey, hey, grease the poles. Grease the poles.
• 1:38:19
  We are coming. I used before I lived in
• 1:38:22
  Baltimore. I lived in Philly.
• 1:38:23
  I love the town. It's great.
• 1:38:25
  Yeah. If there's if there's if there's
• 1:38:28
  any more Loki in town, I have not met it.
• 1:38:33
  That is a town that birth is monsters and gets up to some
• 1:38:38
  real wacky stuff so. I heard that, man.
• 1:38:43
  That's a good one. Good one.
• 1:38:46
  All right. One modern invention that you
• 1:38:49
  think that the gods would absolutely love.
• 1:38:53
  A modern invention that the gods would absolutely love.
• 1:38:56
  Oh, I would have to say Nord and wiki feet.
• 1:39:00
  Wiki Feet. I'm sorry.
• 1:39:02
  No, no, no, no. Let's see.
• 1:39:07
  Wait, wait, wait, wait wait. Why though?
• 1:39:09
  Like. Well, you know the story of Nord
• 1:39:11
  and what's her name? I can't remember her name with
• 1:39:13
  the funny Scotty and the Yeah. Scotty, she wants, she's, she,
• 1:39:17
  she's, she thinks that I'm going to get the best.
• 1:39:20
  I'm she she's hoping for Balder. She's up for Balder.
• 1:39:23
  She gets. The best, brightest of the gods
• 1:39:25
  and she's like, them feet look good and it's Nord.
• 1:39:33
  But I think if I had to give a more serious answer, it would be
• 1:39:36
  Freya and Only Fans. Freya would absolutely be on
• 1:39:43
  only fans 100%. 100%. Yeah, no doubt.
• 1:39:51
  That's funny. All right, your go to rune if
• 1:39:57
  you need a confidence boost. It is power, UDA is that power
• 1:40:06
  or that that that that strength? Wait, is Uda's wealth or sorry
• 1:40:15
  the I'm trying to remember? Uterus is that uterus is the
• 1:40:19
  aurochs, right, So that that that wild power, that that
• 1:40:22
  unbridled energy that the, you know, just bowling a China shop
• 1:40:25
  kind of, you know, in here to to make shit happened, like just
• 1:40:31
  wild abandoned in a way, like you can't really hard.
• 1:40:35
  Ass and break stuff. Yeah, it's like Limp Bizkit, you
• 1:40:41
  know? Oh yeah.
• 1:40:43
  Breaks. So Urus Right.
• 1:40:46
  OK, All right. Now, if Freya since since you're
• 1:40:52
  since you're so focused on Freya, if Freya walked into a
• 1:40:58
  Baltimore coffee shop today, what would she order?
• 1:41:06
  Knowing what I know about the gods and their consumption
• 1:41:10
  habits. 15 shots of espresso and and a whole milk.
• 1:41:20
  Just just an entire venti of Starbucks just just shooting
• 1:41:25
  those shots right in. Just high octane just.
• 1:41:29
  High octane. She's a goddess.
• 1:41:31
  She's got places to go, she's got things to do.
• 1:41:36
  OK, with a little bit of flavor at the end, just for just for
• 1:41:40
  good measure maybe. Just a little bit, maybe a nice
• 1:41:42
  hazelnut. Do you have a favorite modern
• 1:41:48
  philosopher or thinker that you'd like to?
• 1:41:52
  Oh, can I talk about Slavojijek? That's what this is about.
• 1:41:59
  Oh, that looks our favorite modern philosopher thinker.
• 1:42:01
  Go. That would be Slavojijek.
• 1:42:04
  That would be the modern Diogenes Batman is.
• 1:42:12
  The problem with Slavojijek is not whether or not he's right or
• 1:42:16
  wrong, it's that he is an asshole, and I love him for it,
• 1:42:21
  because he is. He's this Slovenian philosopher
• 1:42:26
  who comes from an old old old school leftist perspective.
• 1:42:31
  And if you ever have a chance to read to watch it A Pervert's
• 1:42:35
  Guide to Ideology. Amazing view.
• 1:42:40
  OK, you might have to send me a link for where people might
• 1:42:45
  could find that if the audience is so interested in your
• 1:42:50
  perspective that they want to pursue it.
• 1:42:52
  So shoot me some information so I can put it in the show notes
• 1:42:55
  for the podcast. I'll shoot over how to spell
• 1:42:58
  Zizek later. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:43:03
  And then lastly, Chloe, 3 words that describe your practice
• 1:43:12
  right now. I'm I'm at a loss for words on
• 1:43:30
  that one. See it in my pants?
• 1:43:38
  Yeah, let's go. See it in my pants?
• 1:43:41
  That's what I've got. What?
• 1:43:42
  What does your heart say? What does your spirit say?
• 1:43:45
  3 words. Oh man, I got nothing.
• 1:43:49
  I got nothing. That's it.
• 1:43:52
  Those are your 3 words. I got nothing.
• 1:43:54
  I got nothing. Well, if you could elaborate on
• 1:43:59
  your practice right now beyond 3 words, this is the final kind of
• 1:44:06
  culmination of what we've talked about.
• 1:44:09
  If you could summarize your practice right now in a way that
• 1:44:13
  people could absorb through the last hour and 40 minutes that
• 1:44:19
  we've talked, what would you like those words to be?
• 1:44:24
  The only person checking your work in this heathen, in this
• 1:44:27
  religion we call Heathen Reeve, this religion that we say has so
• 1:44:31
  much homework is you. So don't don't worry, do the
• 1:44:35
  work, you'll be fine. Do the work.
• 1:44:42
  You know, that, that, that, that's something I'm going to
• 1:44:44
  key in on because do the damn work.
• 1:44:49
  Do it. Don't, don't it, It's
• 1:44:50
  interesting, 'cause like I, I, I, I had a episode that just
• 1:44:54
  this last week where I, I referenced, I don't know if, you
• 1:45:00
  know, I might be dating my, I'm, I'm dating myself.
• 1:45:03
  But Chloe, you might reference, or you might remember reading
• 1:45:08
  Rainbow. Oh, loved reading rainbow.
• 1:45:11
  War Burton Oh yeah, right. Do you remember what you would
• 1:45:14
  say at the end of every book? Don't take my word for it.
• 1:45:21
  Don't take my word for it. What does that mean?
• 1:45:24
  Do the damn work yourself. You heard it from me.
• 1:45:27
  You heard it from Chloe. You heard it from anybody else
• 1:45:30
  that has said it before. But actually, if I had to come
• 1:45:35
  up with three words do the work, there's my 3 words we got there.
• 1:45:43
  There it is. Do the work. 3 words that
• 1:45:47
  describe your practice right now Chloe.
• 1:45:49
  Do the work. Yep.
• 1:45:52
  Yes, I, I know and I would, I would again, I applaud that
• 1:45:56
  because that is there. There's, there's so much
• 1:46:01
  strength and there's so much power in those three words.
• 1:46:03
  Do the work. And if you want to add a little
• 1:46:06
  bit of spice to it, do the damn work.
• 1:46:10
  Put the work in. Don't take my word for it.
• 1:46:12
  Don't take her word for it. Don't take their word for it.
• 1:46:16
  Do what needs to be done. Learn it yourself.
• 1:46:22
  You know, you're listening to this podcast.
• 1:46:23
  You're, you're, you're hearing words from me and from Chloe
• 1:46:26
  and, you know, on this episode. And then you're also perhaps
• 1:46:32
  looking in a back catalog of, of content that I've put out and,
• 1:46:37
  and maybe you're finding stuff on Vanna Hein vibes over on
• 1:46:41
  what's your website again? Everheardempire.com.
• 1:46:45
  Everhardempire.com, which where you can also download the
• 1:46:48
  digital Hove Mall, right? You're going to, you're going to
• 1:46:51
  hear words and you're going to hear things and, and opinions
• 1:46:55
  and thoughts and stuff from people that have invested time
• 1:47:01
  that have put work into sharing their thoughts.
• 1:47:05
  But at the end of the day, you know.
• 1:47:08
  It's your path, you got to walk it.
• 1:47:11
  You got to figure it out. And, and if, if some of what we
• 1:47:14
  say has kind of pointed you in a direction or helped guide you in
• 1:47:22
  a, in a, in an area to research, that's, that's where your work
• 1:47:27
  lies. They're bread crumbs.
• 1:47:30
  They're they're seeds, right? Whatever calls you, whatever
• 1:47:35
  grabs you by the soul like a like a enthusiastic child with a
• 1:47:40
  rag doll, whatever grabs you like that, go with it.
• 1:47:44
  Go with it. Yeah, thank you, Chloe for for
• 1:47:49
  being here on random heat and ramblings had a great
• 1:47:53
  conversation getting to hear a little bit behind the scenes
• 1:47:57
  with with you. And you know, I'm excited to to,
• 1:48:03
  to hear what people have to say. So if if you're listening to
• 1:48:06
  this folks, and you have the means to, to share a comment or
• 1:48:10
  if you don't have the means on the platform that you're
• 1:48:13
  capturing this on for the listeners, obviously if you're
• 1:48:16
  watching this on Patreon down in the comments below, let us know
• 1:48:20
  what you thought. But if you're listening to this
• 1:48:22
  and you don't have the means of of commenting, I know a lot of
• 1:48:26
  audio platforms do or maybe some don't.
• 1:48:29
  Would love to hear what you have to think or what you have to say
• 1:48:31
  about, you know, your thoughts about this whole thing.
• 1:48:33
  So you can e-mail me midgardmusingstn@gmail.com.
• 1:48:39
  Love to to share those thoughts in a future episode.
• 1:48:42
  You can also call into the podcast.
• 1:48:44
  It's a 615-671-9832. You can leave a voicemail.
• 1:48:50
  We can share your thoughts about what you what you felt from this
• 1:48:55
  episode. But Chloe, thank you so much for
• 1:48:58
  being here on Random Human Ramblings and thank you for
• 1:49:01
  sharing your thoughts on on all these things.
• 1:49:03
  Is there anything else that you'd like to kind of summarize
• 1:49:06
  or share with people before we sign things off and let people
• 1:49:10
  on their way? Independence for Quebec now.
• 1:49:18
  Independence for Quebec now. I'm sorry I.
• 1:49:23
  Don't have any context for that, but I'm going to just leave it
• 1:49:26
  at that. Maybe because.
• 1:49:28
  I am so sorry about that. Yeah, that's cool, man.
• 1:49:34
  Thank you very much. Don't go anywhere, Chloe.
• 1:49:36
  I'm going to kind of touch base with you a bit offline when we
• 1:49:39
  stop recording and kind of debrief with you.
• 1:49:43
  But I appreciate you being here. Thank you for giving me your
• 1:49:46
  space and your time to talk about things that were on your
• 1:49:49
  heart. We covered a lot and I thank you
• 1:49:53
  for being here. Thanks for having me.
• 1:49:56
  And for everybody else that's listen and watch this episode of
• 1:49:58
  Random Heathen Ramblings, you know what to do.
• 1:50:01
  If you want to support what this podcast means, head over to
• 1:50:04
  patreon.com/midgard Muses. Become a Carl to your patron for
• 1:50:08
  just a $1.00 pledge and show your support in that aspect.
• 1:50:13
  If nothing else, if you're listening to this, share it
• 1:50:15
  across your social media platforms.
• 1:50:18
  You have an audience and our voice here would like to be a
• 1:50:22
  part of your audience and your social platform, so share the
• 1:50:27
  link in any aspect that you would so choose.
• 1:50:31
  Thank you for your constant and ongoing support here.
• 1:50:34
  Thank you Chloe Tart for being here and for everybody else
• 1:50:38
  that's listened and watched until we talk to each other
• 1:50:41
  again. May the gods continue to notice
• 1:50:44
  you, and may your ancestors smile upon you.
• 1:50:49
  We'll see you in the next one.