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The Land and the Book - What we didn’t learn from October 7 · WPEL On Demand

0:08
S1: It's been three years since the Hamas massacre in Israel,
0:12
S1: but the global spike in anti-Semitism is more than disheartening.
0:15
S1: It's sickening. Bottom line, the world has simply not learned
0:20
S1: the lessons we should have. Straight ahead, we'll explore what
0:22
S1: we didn't learn from October 7th. Plus Bible questions and answers,
0:27
S1: a devotional you'll long remember and all the latest headlines
0:30
S1: from the Middle East. That's next. We call it the
0:32
S1: land and the book. And we call our host Doctor
0:35
S1: Charlie Dyer. I'm John Gager. Good to connect with you, Charlie.
0:38
S2: John, it's great being with you again.
0:40
S1: Well, this month does mark the third anniversary of that
0:43
S1: October 7th attack on Israel. And the past few years,
0:46
S1: of course, have been a time of profound grief and
0:48
S1: hardship for Israelis and Jewish people around the world. In
0:52
S1: addition to the horrors of October 7th, though, the worldwide
0:55
S1: rise in anti-Semitism has stunned saddened all those who love Israel.
1:01
S1: And as a response, our friends at Life in Messiah
1:03
S1: have been working on a documentary called Shadows of October
1:07
S1: Israel Under Siege. And the film addresses the hard questions
1:11
S1: like where was God in the events of October 7th?
1:14
S1: Why is anti-Semitism rising around the world? And how should
1:18
S1: we move forward through powerful testimony from survivors alongside expert analysis?
1:24
S1: Shadows of October investigates the events, long term impact and
1:29
S1: spiritual implications of the October 7th, 2023, attack on Israel.
1:34
S2: It does. John. I've watched the film myself and Shadows
1:37
S2: of October forces viewers to confront the reality of anti-Semitism
1:41
S2: and its impact on the Jewish people following the Hamas
1:44
S2: attack on October 7th. You experienced the hatred and the heartache,
1:48
S2: but also the hope through the eyes of those who
1:50
S2: were there. Now, the film is currently available on streaming services.
1:54
S2: For details on how you can watch it or arrange
1:57
S2: a screening for your church, visit Life in messiah.org and
2:00
S2: click on the moody radio button there. That's life in
2:03
S2: Messiah dot ORG.
2:05
S1: All right. And this week is the three year anniversary
2:08
S1: of that Hamas deadly attack on Israel. And the anniversary
2:12
S1: raises some troubling questions, such as, one, why are Iran,
2:17
S1: the Houthis, Hamas and Hezbollah still threatening Israel? The Middle
2:20
S1: East and the West? Two were still struggling with gas prices,
2:24
S1: and we watched with alarm as terrorists attempt to attack
2:28
S1: military bases and airline flights with everything that's going on.
2:32
S1: Who's really winning this struggle? Can you take us beyond
2:35
S1: the headlines, Charlie, to help us focus on the bigger picture?
2:38
S2: Yeah. You know, two words come to mind when I
2:40
S2: look at the overall picture of what's happening in the
2:42
S2: Middle East. And the first is messy and the second
2:46
S2: is improving. It's messy because almost nothing in life is
2:50
S2: black and white, and solutions aren't always clean and neat.
2:54
S2: You know, one of my favorite proverbs is Proverbs 144,
2:57
S2: where there are no oxen. The manger is clean, but
2:59
S2: abundant crops come by the strength of the ox. If
3:02
S2: you want a clean stable, don't have any oxen. But
3:05
S2: if you want to get something accomplished, be willing to
3:07
S2: put up with the mess. The press tend to focus
3:10
S2: on all the messes, not on what's actually being accomplished.
3:14
S2: The amount of crude making it out of the Gulf
3:16
S2: is back to pre-war levels. Now gas and diesel are
3:20
S2: still in short supply because Iran and the Houthis also
3:23
S2: attacked oil refineries in the area. They take longer to repair,
3:27
S2: but they are being repaired. The U.S. sent additional Patriot
3:31
S2: missile batteries to Saudi Arabia and Qatar to protect those refineries,
3:35
S2: and the G7 has agreed to release diesel fuel from
3:37
S2: their stockpiles, which should help bring down the prices until
3:41
S2: the refineries are back up and running. The naval blockade
3:44
S2: against Iran is continuing to hold, and Iran's economy is
3:48
S2: feeling the effects. The attack against the U.S. air base
3:51
S2: in Britain was thwarted. The U.S. then withdrew its bombers
3:54
S2: after reports of a planned drone attack surfaced. The attempted
3:58
S2: terrorist hijacking of the plane from Dubai to Israel was
4:01
S2: thwarted by several heroic individuals. More importantly, though, it uncovered
4:06
S2: a blind spot that allowed a terrorist to fly a
4:09
S2: plane into Israel. A subsequent investigation showed that more than
4:13
S2: 1200 crew members from countries without diplomatic ties had flown
4:18
S2: into that country over the past year. That loophole has
4:21
S2: now been closed. The Saudis and the government of Yemen
4:24
S2: began an offensive to break the Houthis grip on the
4:27
S2: southern part of the Red sea. This offensive involves thousands
4:31
S2: of Yemeni soldiers backed by Western intelligence information and Saudi
4:35
S2: air power. And finally, the U.S. has sent another aircraft
4:38
S2: carrier to the Middle East, along with thousands of troops.
4:41
S2: This could be seen as a warning to Iran, or
4:44
S2: it could be a signal that the U.S. is preparing
4:46
S2: to resume military strikes. So on balance, the situation is messy.
4:51
S2: But as the efforts to weaken Iran and its allies continue,
4:54
S2: the situation does appear to be improving.
4:57
S1: You're listening to the land in the book from Moody Radio.
5:00
S1: Our host is Doctor Charlie Dyer, a noted Middle East expert.
5:03
S1: And with just over two weeks under Israel's elections, have
5:07
S1: there been any shifts in voter sentiment, or are the
5:09
S1: two major blocks of parties still pretty much locked in
5:12
S1: a dead heat?
5:13
S2: Well, the attempted hijacking of that flydubai flight has, at
5:16
S2: least temporarily, given a boost to Prime Minister Netanyahu. It
5:20
S2: was a feel good story for Israel and Netanyahu. Greeting
5:23
S2: the passengers when they landed showed the power of the
5:26
S2: incumbent to link himself to that sense of courage and optimism. Now,
5:30
S2: we don't know how long such a bounce might last.
5:32
S2: But in a poll taken shortly after the Likud party
5:35
S2: had pulled into a tie with Gadi Eisenkot Yashar party
5:39
S2: and Netanyahu's coalition bloc pulled ahead with the poll showing
5:43
S2: him winning 53 seats in the Knesset versus 49 for
5:47
S2: the opposition bloc. Now, both blocks are still short of
5:50
S2: the 61 seat majority. And of course, those numbers could
5:53
S2: still change. The other major item last week was no surprise.
5:57
S2: As we said last week, Israel's High court overturned the
6:00
S2: election ban on the different Arab parties, allowing them to run.
6:05
S2: They did strongly encourage one candidate to drop out and
6:08
S2: halted proceedings against him after he did withdraw. And that
6:11
S2: means the Arab parties will likely end up with about
6:14
S2: 13 seats in the Knesset, meaning their votes could be
6:17
S2: essential for determining the formation of the next government. Some
6:20
S2: parties have said they will not serve in a coalition
6:23
S2: with the Arab parties, while others have said they won't
6:25
S2: be in a government with the ultra-Orthodox parties. And of course,
6:29
S2: many in the opposition say they won't serve in any
6:31
S2: coalition with Netanyahu. But after this election, the politicians who
6:36
S2: made such declarations are either going to need to break
6:39
S2: those promises or watch Israel head into still another election cycle.
6:45
S1: Researchers searching for Noah's Ark claimed that radar shows a
6:49
S1: potential site in Turkey contains a man made structure. So
6:53
S1: have they indeed discovered Noah's Ark?
6:56
S2: You know, I've got to start by clearly stating, I believe,
6:58
S2: the account of Noah's Ark in the book of Genesis.
7:01
S2: The issue isn't whether or not there was an ark,
7:03
S2: but whether the Durupinar formation in Turkey contains the remnants
7:07
S2: of Noah's Ark. That's the question. Earlier this year, the
7:11
S2: Turkish government gave a group called Noah's Ark scans permission
7:14
S2: to begin a more invasive and comprehensive geological and archaeological
7:19
S2: excavation at the site. That group now claims that these
7:22
S2: radar scans revealed features below the surface that are consistent
7:26
S2: with a man made structure. They include linear features, angular intersections,
7:31
S2: layered structures and possible voids beneath the formation, which they
7:35
S2: believe could be corridors, compartments and multiple levels consistent with
7:40
S2: the biblical account. However, the findings are still preliminary and
7:44
S2: the results haven't been peer reviewed. So could it be
7:47
S2: the remains of Noah's Ark? Right now, I think we
7:50
S2: need to say it could be. But until more evidence
7:53
S2: is produced and until it's independently verified, I think we
7:56
S2: need to be cautious. I'm reminded of the words of
7:59
S2: Thomas the Disciple. You know, he doubted Jesus's resurrection because
8:03
S2: he hadn't been present when Jesus appeared to the disciples.
8:06
S2: When Jesus did appear to Thomas, he said, have you
8:09
S2: believed because you've seen me? Blessed are those who have
8:11
S2: not seen and yet have come to believe. The point
8:14
S2: is that the physical evidence of the ark isn't necessary
8:17
S2: to our faith. The event took place thousands of years ago,
8:21
S2: and I wouldn't expect too much of the wood to
8:23
S2: have survived that long. If it is the Ark. Believers
8:27
S2: will rejoice and skeptics will find some other way to
8:30
S2: try and explain it. And if it turns out to
8:32
S2: not be the ark, it doesn't change the truth of
8:34
S2: what the Bible says about the event. But for right now,
8:38
S2: I think we ought to just follow this story with
8:39
S2: interest and then wait to see what unfolds.
8:42
S1: Charlie, very quickly, what do we know about the Turkish
8:44
S1: government's receptivity to continued investigation?
8:47
S2: Well, you know, they're Islamic based, and Islam does believe
8:51
S2: in Noah, so they don't have a problem with it
8:53
S2: in that sense.
8:55
S1: Well, one of the most difficult medical challenges over the
8:57
S1: years has been looking for a way to replace the
9:00
S1: mitral valve in the heart without opening the chest. A
9:04
S1: company in Israel has developed a new valve. That might
9:06
S1: just be the answer. Tell us about this latest innovation
9:10
S1: from Amazing Israel.
9:11
S2: Yeah, the mitral valve sits between the left atrium and
9:14
S2: left ventricle and helps keep blood flowing in the correct direction.
9:18
S2: Unlike the aortic valve, which can be replaced using a catheter,
9:22
S2: replacing the mitral valve normally requires opening the chest. But
9:26
S2: a company named Inno Valve has developed a valve that
9:29
S2: is inserted through a vein in the groin and delivered
9:32
S2: to the heart by catheter, much like the current aortic
9:35
S2: valve replacements. But surrounding the new valve are six arms
9:39
S2: that open beneath the patient's natural valve. They capture the
9:42
S2: cords connecting the valve to the heart muscle and wrap
9:45
S2: the natural tissue around the implant, securing it in place.
9:49
S2: The technology has moved from the laboratory into human trials,
9:52
S2: where it is being implanted in dozens of patients in
9:55
S2: the US and Israel. The current clinical trial is limited
9:58
S2: to patients with significant mitral regurgitation who are at high
10:02
S2: risk for traditional surgery. As a result, the system still
10:06
S2: remains investigational as it continues to demonstrate its safety and effectiveness.
10:11
S2: But if these clinical trials meet expectations, patients might soon
10:14
S2: be able to receive a new mitral valve without having
10:17
S2: to undergo open heart surgery. And that would be another
10:21
S2: innovation from amazing Israel that could impact individuals around the world.
10:25
S1: Thank you, Charlie. And that's a look at current events. Well,
10:28
S1: it's been three years since the Hamas massacre in Israel,
10:32
S1: but the global spike in anti-Semitism that we're seeing is
10:35
S1: just unbelievable. It's sickening. Bottom line, the world has simply
10:39
S1: not learned the lessons we should have. Coming up, a
10:42
S1: conversation about what we didn't learn from October 7th. Our
10:46
S1: website As always, the land and the book dot ORG
10:50
S1: the land and the book.org. October 7th, 2023. The deadliest
11:09
S1: attack on Israel since the Holocaust. Some 1200 people were killed,
11:13
S1: with 251 taken hostage. This was the largest armed invasion
11:18
S1: of Israeli territory since the 1948 war. There's been much
11:22
S1: analysis of all that happened, and it's reasonable to hope
11:25
S1: the world has learned at least a few important lessons.
11:28
S1: But today's guest says that's largely not the case. We're
11:32
S1: about to analyze what we haven't learned from October 7th.
11:35
S1: Welcome back to the land and the book. I'm John Gieger.
11:38
S1: And before we dive into this discussion, let's zoom out
11:41
S1: for a moment and think about simple things you and
11:43
S1: I can do to share the love of Christ with
11:45
S1: a Jewish friend. Some of us are under the impression
11:48
S1: that the best person to witness to a Jewish person
11:51
S1: is another Jewish person who's come to know Yeshua. So
11:54
S1: can Gentiles really be effective in sharing Christ? What do
11:58
S1: you think Greg Savett is with the Rock of Israel Ministries?
12:01
S1: What do you say, Greg?
12:02
S3: I want to answer that with yes, yes and yes. 75%
12:07
S3: of Jewish people that come to faith in Messiah are
12:10
S3: from the witness of a Gentile. You do not need
12:13
S3: to have the gift of evangelism, but you need to
12:15
S3: know that Jesus said to go out and make disciples.
12:18
S3: You can ask your Jewish friend to take them to
12:21
S3: synagogue on a Friday night, and when you go to them,
12:24
S3: make sure you go out for coffee afterwards and ask
12:26
S3: lots of questions. Invite your Jewish friend to church. Make
12:30
S3: sure that you talk to your pastor and it's not
12:31
S3: a tithing message. Find something on the Old Testament and
12:35
S3: then go out and ask questions. I mean, if you're
12:38
S3: interested in their faith and you have questions, I guarantee
12:41
S3: you they'll be interested in your faith. And that's a
12:44
S3: great way to share the gospel with them.
12:46
S1: That's Greg Savitt, who serves with Rock of Israel, sharing
12:48
S1: ideas on how you and I can reach out to
12:50
S1: our Non-believing Jewish friends here on the land and the book.
12:55
S1: Justin Krohn is the founding director of the Kesher project.
12:59
S1: For nearly 25 years, Justin has brought his experiences and
13:02
S1: insights to churches and groups of all sizes and backgrounds
13:06
S1: to help them get better acquainted with Jesus in his
13:08
S1: Jewish context, and to apply the wisdom of the Bible
13:11
S1: to their everyday lives. He frequently teaches on topics related
13:15
S1: to the Jewish foundations of the Christian faith, the history
13:18
S1: of Christian anti-Semitism, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the importance of
13:23
S1: demonstrating God's love to the Jewish community. Justin is also
13:27
S1: the producer of the new film October 7th bearing witness
13:31
S1: to the massacre. More about that at October 7th, film.com.
13:35
S1: We know we're going to tap into something significant whenever
13:38
S1: Justin Krohn is in the house. So hey, welcome back
13:40
S1: to the land in the book. Justin.
13:41
S4: John, pleasure to be back with you.
13:44
S1: Well, you and I both agree. There are lessons, sadly,
13:46
S1: many lessons the world has not yet learned from October 7th.
13:51
S1: In the next few minutes, we're going to try to
13:52
S1: explore a whole bunch of them, as many as we can.
13:54
S1: But let's start with unlearned lesson number one, how bad
13:58
S1: it really was.
13:59
S4: Yeah. John, you brought up that it was, uh, 1200
14:04
S4: or so people who were massacred, 250 or so who
14:08
S4: were taken hostage. Listen, I know that the listeners to
14:12
S4: your program are very well aware of just how horrific
14:16
S4: and brutal that massacre was. But in my experience with
14:21
S4: many people, especially those who've watched our film October 7th,
14:24
S4: bearing witness to the massacre, the response we often get is, wow, I,
14:28
S4: I had no idea just how bad it really was,
14:31
S4: how horrific it was. I think it's good to help
14:34
S4: people understand kind of comparing to maybe say, nine over 11,
14:39
S4: the scope of this for Israelis, For Israelis, it was
14:43
S4: about the equivalent to 149 elevens, which included, of course,
14:48
S4: the abduction of 250 civilians, which we did not have
14:53
S4: here in America on nine over 11. So just extrapolating
14:57
S4: that to Israel, that would be like 42,000 Americans being
15:01
S4: massacred on nine over 11 or 10,000 Americans being taken
15:07
S4: hostage into Canada. And then imagine afterwards you have the world.
15:13
S4: You have people thousands in cities around the world and
15:16
S4: on social media coming to the defense of Hamas.
15:20
S1: Yeah.
15:20
S4: And many of the human rights organizations that often speak
15:24
S4: out against such atrocities, many of them were silent, said nothing.
15:29
S4: And then you even had people within days before Israel
15:32
S4: began its ground invasion into Gaza, accusing Israel of genocide. Yeah.
15:39
S4: So imagine just how alone Israel felt in these days.
15:43
S4: And and so I think a lot of people have
15:45
S4: forgotten what it's been like for Israel and just how
15:47
S4: it impacted their society. In fact, I would say in
15:51
S4: even greater ways than nine over 11 impacted us here
15:54
S4: in the United States.
15:55
S1: Unlearned. Lesson number two, who Hamas and to a larger extent,
15:59
S1: the Palestinian people really are and what they actually want.
16:04
S4: Yeah, I think many, particularly those who are in what
16:08
S4: I would call the Free Palestine movement, believe that all
16:12
S4: of the Palestinian Arabs, all that they really want is
16:15
S4: just freedom from oppression and and the right to live
16:19
S4: peacefully side by side with Israel. But I think that's
16:23
S4: a misunderstanding, a distortion, really, of what their actual aspirations are.
16:28
S4: I think for the majority of Palestinian Arabs, what they
16:32
S4: actually want is no Israel at all. The complete destruction
16:36
S4: of Israel. They're not interested, per se in living peacefully
16:40
S4: side by side with a Jewish state. And this has
16:44
S4: been the case even before Israel was reconstituted as a nation.
16:49
S4: It was very clear within the British government who had
16:52
S4: the mandate for Palestine at that time. Their assessment was
16:56
S4: that the Jews are fine with any peace of the
17:00
S4: land for their own state. On the Arab side, however,
17:03
S4: they will not accept Jewish sovereignty in any part of
17:06
S4: the land. And when Israel declared independence in 1948. We know,
17:11
S4: of course, that the surrounding Arab armies and the Arabs
17:14
S4: in Palestine themselves attempted to wipe Israel off the map.
17:19
S4: And that really, frankly, has been the goal ever since
17:22
S4: the beginning. And that's Hamas's declared goal, the destruction of Israel.
17:27
S4: And so I think it's important to understand really where
17:30
S4: the Arabs coming from. I should say this. Are there
17:32
S4: some Arabs who do accept Israel's right to exist? Yes,
17:36
S4: there are, but they are the minority and they are
17:38
S4: not the ones who are in power. And so I
17:41
S4: think we need to understand really what the ultimate aspiration is.
17:45
S4: Is the destruction of Israel.
17:47
S1: This is the land in the book from Moody Radio.
17:49
S1: Our guest, Justin Krohn. We're talking about what we haven't
17:52
S1: learned from October 7th. Unlearned lesson number three, that Israel
17:56
S1: is not guilty of genocide or ethnic cleansing. I hear
18:00
S1: this so much. It seems to be the sticking point,
18:03
S1: the tip of the sword that these people are using
18:05
S1: to protest and want to gouge Israel with.
18:08
S4: Yeah, it's really a way to demonize Israel. It's an
18:12
S4: accusation that's been made even before the events of October 7th,
18:15
S4: if you believe it. Israel was accused of genocide. I
18:19
S4: would call it the greatest blood libel. You know, we
18:22
S4: remember back in the Middle Ages, the Jews were accused
18:25
S4: of kidnapping Christian children and then sacrificing them and using
18:29
S4: their blood to bake into their matzo for Passover. That
18:32
S4: was a blood libel, and people believed it. Today you
18:37
S4: have the accusation of genocide. What is genocide? Genocide is
18:42
S4: the intent to destroy in whole or in part, a
18:46
S4: people group based on their religion or ethnicity or race, etc..
18:52
S4: Israel has never sought to do that. They have made
18:56
S4: it very clear that they're going after Hamas. They're going
19:00
S4: after the perpetrators of those who committed one of the
19:03
S4: gravest acts against the state of Israel in the history
19:07
S4: of Israel and the greatest atrocity against the Jewish people
19:11
S4: since the Holocaust. So the accusation just doesn't hold up.
19:16
S4: Let's also remember, too, that although there have been civilians
19:19
S4: who have died, why have they died? They've died because
19:24
S4: Hamas uses civilians as human shields. Hamas has hit themselves
19:29
S4: underground in essentially a fortress where there were hostages. Remember? Right.
19:34
S4: At any point during the war, Hamas could have surrendered.
19:39
S4: They could have released the hostages and the war would
19:42
S4: have been over. So this was not a genocide. This
19:45
S4: was a war, and it was a justified war.
19:49
S1: Unlearned lesson number four, that Israel was not occupying Gaza.
19:54
S1: Help us understand this, Justin.
19:56
S4: Yeah. So back in 2005, Israel completely withdrew their civilians.
20:03
S4: There were approximately 9000 Jewish Israelis who were living in Gaza,
20:08
S4: as well as their military presence completely disengaged from Gaza,
20:12
S4: handed it over to the Palestinian Authority. And so there
20:17
S4: was no Israeli presence whatsoever within hours, in fact, within
20:21
S4: 24 hours of Israel's disengagement. What did Israel receive in return?
20:26
S4: Rocket fire. This was in September of 2005. By the
20:31
S4: end of that year, there were six Israeli civilians who
20:35
S4: were killed from that rocket fire. Hundreds injured and thousands terrorized.
20:40
S4: In early 2006, there was a an election for the
20:45
S4: legislation within the Palestinian Authority, and the Palestinian people elected
20:51
S4: Hamas into power. And of course, Hamas continued with its
20:55
S4: rocket fire, etc., and then ultimately took full control of
21:00
S4: Gaza in a bloody coup against their rival Fatah party.
21:04
S4: And so to suggest that Israel was occupying Gaza, or
21:08
S4: as some might have said, it was an open air prison.
21:12
S4: It's completely misunderstand the context of what led to those circumstances.
21:18
S4: And I think it's also important to note that it's
21:20
S4: not only Israel that has a border with Gaza, it's
21:23
S4: also Egypt. Egypt created a very significant security wall. So
21:29
S4: to suggest that Israel was occupying Gaza is a complete
21:34
S4: distortion of reality.
21:36
S1: Justin Krohn is the founding director of the Kesher project.
21:39
S1: He's also the producer of the new film October 7th
21:42
S1: bearing witness to the massacre. Again, you can learn more
21:44
S1: about that at. October 7th. film.com. Unlearned. Lesson number five
21:50
S1: that Jewish Israelis aren't foreign colonialists.
21:54
S4: Yeah. Listen, to be a foreign colonialist, that means you
21:58
S4: have to have originated in somewhere outside of the land
22:03
S4: that you are currently in. So where are the Jewish
22:06
S4: people from? Are they from Europe? Is that where they
22:09
S4: originate from? Are they from America? No. I mean, Jews
22:14
S4: originate from Judea, right? That's where they get their name
22:18
S4: from the land of Israel. So Jews are indigenous to
22:23
S4: the land. In fact, there's been a continual presence of
22:26
S4: Jewish people in the land for over 3000 years. Unbroken
22:31
S4: presence of Jewish people in the land. Let's also keep
22:34
S4: in mind that how did the Jews end up in Europe,
22:37
S4: in other places in the world? It's because they were
22:40
S4: forced out, forced out by the Romans, and then kept
22:43
S4: out by many other empires where they lived or who
22:47
S4: controlled the land of Israel. And so to suggest that
22:51
S4: the Jews are foreign colonizers is again, it's another complete misrepresentation.
22:57
S4: It's in fact, it's again, another one of those blood
23:01
S4: libels that are used to demonize the Jewish people and
23:05
S4: to discredit their connection to the land.
23:08
S1: Unlearned. Lesson number six that Islam is not a religion
23:12
S1: of peace.
23:13
S4: I think we need to understand Islam in a in
23:16
S4: a different framework. I think Islam should be more understood
23:21
S4: as a state or as a constitution, if you will,
23:26
S4: similar to the United States that we have a constitution,
23:31
S4: Islam in a sense, they also have a constitution which
23:34
S4: is known as Sharia law. Their goal is a caliphate,
23:37
S4: or what we sometimes might call a state. Now is Islam.
23:42
S4: Does it have a religion? Yes. But the ultimate goal
23:45
S4: is that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess.
23:50
S4: I'm using, of course, language from the Bible that Allah
23:55
S4: is God and Muhammad is his prophet and that everyone
24:01
S4: should abide by or come under Islamic, what we call
24:06
S4: then Sharia law, which is very, very different than what
24:11
S4: we would understand from the teachings of Jesus or any
24:16
S4: any other religion. And so I think it's very important, again,
24:22
S4: just to understand that Islam desires a worldwide caliphate where
24:26
S4: everyone will come under Or Islamic rain.
24:30
S1: We've got about a minute left. I want to just
24:31
S1: jam in one more unlearned lesson. And that's the only
24:34
S1: hope for lasting peace between Israel and her neighbors is
24:37
S1: the gospel. We still haven't learned that.
24:40
S4: Yeah. Paul said very clearly in Romans that the Jews
24:44
S4: are enemies of the gospel, but they are loved on
24:49
S4: account of the patriarchs. So while Jewish people, many of
24:54
S4: them not myself included, because I am a Jewish follower
24:58
S4: of Jesus, while many of them have rejected Jesus as Messiah,
25:03
S4: they are still loved on account of the patriarchs and
25:06
S4: that God's gifts and his call are. What irrevocable, irrevocable.
25:11
S4: One of those gifts, of course, we would say, is
25:13
S4: the land of Israel. But ultimately a day is coming
25:18
S4: where I believe the Messiah will return. And in the
25:21
S4: prophet Zechariah we read that they will look upon the
25:25
S4: one they have pierced and mourn for him as one
25:28
S4: mourns for an only son. In other words, they will
25:31
S4: acknowledge that Jesus truly is the King of Kings and
25:35
S4: the Lord of lords, that he truly is their Messiah. Wow.
25:38
S1: Well, that's a great place to land this conversation. Lots
25:41
S1: of heavy issues to discuss. And thank you, Justin, for
25:44
S1: your insights.
25:44
S4: Good to be here with you.
25:46
S1: Up next on the land in the book, it's a
25:48
S1: look at Bible questions. Gerald Peterman in the studio to
25:51
S1: answer questions. Maybe one of them is yours. We'll hear
25:53
S1: it next on the land and the book. Sure. Appreciate
26:07
S1: you hanging out with us today at the land and
26:09
S1: the book. I'm Jon Jaeger with me, Gerald Peterman. He's
26:12
S1: always here at segment three because you've always got questions
26:16
S1: about what you're reading, studying, pondering things that that just
26:19
S1: come to mind as you open scripture and dig in. Well,
26:22
S1: that's a great response. And it's a great idea to
26:24
S1: email those questions to us at the land and the book@moody.edu.
26:30
S1: The land and the book@moody.edu. Doctor Peterman, I don't know
26:35
S1: about you, but I smile when I see. Ah, there's
26:38
S1: a question. You know I love it.
26:40
S5: Listener questions are joys. They're fun things. Yes.
26:44
S1: So you're not weighing us down? You're not holding us back.
26:47
S1: You are bringing a smile. And not only that, you
26:50
S1: are helping other listeners who probably wonder about the same
26:53
S1: things you wonder about. So do them a favor. Would
26:56
S1: you email that Bible question of yours to the land
26:59
S1: and the book@moody.edu? Well, this month marks the third anniversary
27:04
S1: of the October 7th attack on Israel. And these past
27:07
S1: few years have been a time of profound grief and
27:10
S1: hardship for Israelis and Jewish people around the world. In
27:14
S1: addition to the horrors of October 7th itself, the worldwide
27:17
S1: rise in anti-Semitism has absolutely stunned saddened all those who
27:22
S1: love Israel. And as a response, our friends at Life
27:25
S1: in Messiah have worked on a documentary called Shadows of
27:28
S1: October Israel Under Siege. This fantastic film addresses the hard
27:33
S1: questions of where was God in the events of October 7th?
27:37
S1: Why is antisemitism rising around the world and how should
27:41
S1: we move forward? Tough questions, right? Well, through powerful testimony
27:45
S1: from survivors, we've got expert analysis. Shadows of October investigates
27:49
S1: the events, long term impact and spiritual implications of the
27:54
S1: October 7th, 2023, attack on Israel. Right, Charlie?
27:57
S2: Yeah. I've watched the film myself, John. And Shadows of
28:00
S2: October forces viewers to confront the reality of antisemitism and
28:04
S2: its impact on the Jewish people following the Hamas attack
28:08
S2: on October 7th. You experienced the hatred, the heartache, and
28:12
S2: the hope through the eyes of those who were there.
28:15
S2: This film is currently available on streaming services. For details
28:19
S2: on how you can watch the film or arrange a
28:21
S2: screening for your church, visit Life in messiah.org and click
28:25
S2: on the Moody radio button. That's life in messiah.org.
28:29
S1: Thank you Charlie. Again, check it out. Shadows of October.
28:33
S1: All right, let's get to our first question today. This
28:35
S1: one from James. He says a few weeks ago, Doctor
28:38
S1: Peterman's response to a question was that those who are
28:41
S1: deceased become like angels and are around the living doing
28:45
S1: the work that angels do. It sounded more like mystery
28:49
S1: religion than the Bible. Ouch. What do you think?
28:52
S5: Well, I'm sorry to hear there's been some miscommunication. So
28:56
S5: let's go back in time a bit. A listener a
28:59
S5: few weeks ago sent us a question. And the listener
29:03
S5: asked this. Can people in heaven see what's going on
29:08
S5: on earth? I bet many of our listeners have thought
29:12
S5: about that question.
29:13
S1: Absolutely.
29:13
S5: So what I'm going to do is I'm going to
29:17
S5: read back the answer I gave on that day. Okay.
29:21
S5: So here we are. Quote. I'm unsure about the answer.
29:25
S5: In Luke 1510, our Lord Jesus says that angels rejoice
29:30
S5: when a sinner repents. So it might be that people
29:34
S5: in heaven are also aware of sinners repenting and so
29:38
S5: rejoicing with the angels. Another passage to consider is revelation
29:43
S5: six nine and ten. After the fifth seal was opened,
29:47
S5: John said, I saw under the altar souls of those
29:52
S5: who had been slain for the word of God, and
29:55
S5: for the witness they had borne. They cried out with
29:57
S5: a loud voice, O sovereign Lord, holy and true, how
30:02
S5: long before you will judge and avenge our blood on
30:06
S5: those who dwell on the earth? So these martyrs have
30:09
S5: some knowledge of what God is doing on earth, bringing
30:14
S5: God's judgment. But I don't think those of us who
30:17
S5: die and go to be with the Lord are able
30:20
S5: to investigate anything we want or to go anywhere we want.
30:24
S5: But I do think there's some indication that God will
30:27
S5: let us see part of his work. End quote. So
30:32
S5: in my response, I didn't say that we're going to
30:34
S5: be like angels investigating the life of people on earth.
30:38
S5: Nor did I imply as much. So I'm sorry for
30:40
S5: that miscommunication.
30:42
S1: All right. I hope that's helpful. Here's an anonymous questioner.
30:46
S1: As a Christian psychologist, there are times when I'm a
30:49
S1: little bit disappointed with what I hear about Christians and anxiety.
30:53
S1: I have heard Philippians chapter four quoted as if a
30:56
S1: Christian can just somehow shut off anxiety. I've read this
30:59
S1: in books, heard it in sermons, and sometimes even on
31:02
S1: moody radio. What's your perspective?
31:04
S5: Wow. This is important. And as you might know, Philippians
31:08
S5: is one of my favorite books. So while Philippians four is,
31:12
S5: you know, full of just wonderful stuff, we're going to
31:16
S5: go near the end where Paul says, be anxious for nothing. Wait.
31:22
S5: I'm going to digress for a moment. Let's go to
31:25
S5: second Corinthians chapter 11. Paul gives a long list of
31:29
S5: his trials and persecutions and sacrifices. He mentions being beaten
31:34
S5: with rods a couple of times. He mentions being shipwrecked.
31:36
S5: He mentions being cold and hungry and thirsty. And then
31:40
S5: near the end of the long list of his trials,
31:43
S5: he mentions if I, if you will, his one of
31:45
S5: his crowning achievements, his anxiety for all the churches. So
31:52
S5: even the Apostle Paul has anxiety that he confesses. So
31:57
S5: we get back to Philippians four. Be anxious for nothing,
32:01
S5: but notice what happens right after that. Be anxious for nothing,
32:04
S5: but in everything, with prayers and supplications let your requests
32:08
S5: be known to God. So should the Christian have anxiety
32:12
S5: and try to shut it off? Not exactly. What the
32:16
S5: Christians should do is have anxiety or anger or fear
32:20
S5: or sadness. Know what it is and then bring it
32:24
S5: to the source that can explain it, that can deal
32:27
S5: with it, that can help him or her with it.
32:30
S5: That is, bring it to the Lord. I sometimes mention
32:33
S5: this in my classroom. I say to my students, imagine
32:36
S5: your life with no fear. None. Zero. How often would
32:40
S5: you pray?
32:41
S1: Yeah.
32:42
S5: So I do not want unhealthy anxiety. I do not
32:46
S5: want us to be full of anxiety. But anxiety is
32:49
S5: helpful in this sense. It can drive us to prayer
32:52
S5: to the God who can deal with it.
32:54
S1: You know, I've heard others say, you know, there's a
32:56
S1: there's a proper sense of care, if you will, but
33:00
S1: it's the idea of being over anxious, over concerned, over worry.
33:04
S1: That's where we wander into sin.
33:06
S5: Yes, absolutely. And then that kind of over worry, that
33:10
S5: overanxiety it's, it's we're bringing on ourself, we're making ourself
33:15
S5: the primary worker. We're making ourself the one who can
33:17
S5: solve this. Folks, let's not go there.
33:20
S1: Let me take us to an interesting chapter. Psalm 62.
33:23
S1: David says, my soul waits in silence for God alone.
33:26
S1: From him comes my salvation. He alone is my rock
33:30
S1: and my salvation, my stronghold. Don't miss this. I will
33:33
S1: not be greatly shaken. Doesn't say I won't be shaken.
33:37
S1: I won't be greatly shaken. To me, that speaks to
33:40
S1: this overanxious. There's an appropriate sense of caution, concern, anxiety,
33:46
S1: but not over anxiousness.
33:48
S5: Good illustration John, I really appreciate that one hadn't thought
33:51
S5: of it, but it kind of affirms what you were
33:52
S5: saying earlier, right? That is, being shaken will drive us
33:56
S5: to God. Being shaken will drive us to God. Being
34:00
S5: overly shaken will keep us away, right? And then harm
34:04
S5: our relationships with other people too.
34:06
S1: That's a great conversation. I hope that's helpful has been
34:09
S1: to me. Randall takes us to first Corinthians chapter nine.
34:13
S1: He says, I was puzzled and hope you can help.
34:15
S1: Paul makes it sound like God doesn't care for oxen
34:18
S1: when he says, Does God take care for oxen? Or
34:21
S1: does he say it altogether for our sakes? But that
34:23
S1: can't be right. What am I missing?
34:26
S5: Oh, that's a great question too. What's going on in
34:29
S5: First Corinthians nine? First Corinthians nine, Paul is defending his
34:33
S5: right to be economically supported. He's defending it because actually
34:37
S5: he's not taking any support. So he kind of has
34:39
S5: to defend this, this right to be supported. And so
34:42
S5: he takes us to Deuteronomy 25, verse four about the
34:46
S5: ox threshing out the grain. Do not muzzle the ox
34:50
S5: while it's threshing out the grain. So let's go back
34:52
S5: to this question. Is God concerned about the ox? My
34:55
S5: response is yes. And he's concerned about the farmer who
34:59
S5: owns the ox. That is, they should both get what
35:02
S5: they need. In a sense, the farmer should be compassionate
35:05
S5: to the animal. The animal should get what he needs.
35:08
S5: So actually, I think going there from Paul's perspective makes
35:12
S5: just total sense. Paul is a worker and he's a
35:16
S5: laborer for the church. If we're going to respect the
35:19
S5: animal and its needs, then we're going to respect the
35:23
S5: worker and the local congregation and his or her needs.
35:26
S5: That is, the animal works for the farmer and benefits
35:29
S5: him that in the the full time music minister, the
35:32
S5: pastor or teacher or whatever, the counselor, that person works
35:36
S5: for the congregant and is blessed. And so we should
35:39
S5: we should bless back.
35:41
S1: Got time for one last question from our good friend Dan,
35:44
S1: who takes us to first Thessalonians chapter four, where Paul
35:46
S1: speaks as if he believes Christ could come in his lifetime.
35:50
S1: At least that's Dan's impression. Is that what Paul actually thought?
35:54
S5: I think that's right. Yes. First Thessalonians four, this is
35:58
S5: verse 13. We do not want you to be unaware, brothers,
36:01
S5: about those who have fallen asleep. If we believe that
36:03
S5: Jesus died and rose again, so even God will bring
36:06
S5: with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For
36:09
S5: this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
36:12
S5: that we who are alive and remain until the coming
36:15
S5: of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
36:18
S5: So Paul here, using we potentially puts himself in the
36:22
S5: place that he is there. When Christ returns, he doesn't
36:25
S5: guarantee it, right? But he puts himself in that place.
36:28
S5: That is, he is anticipating seeing the Lord at any time.
36:32
S5: He just doesn't know.
36:33
S1: Nor does he set dates.
36:34
S5: Nor does he set dates. That's important, John. Very important.
36:38
S1: Great conversation. And you can email your question to us
36:40
S1: anytime at the land and the book@moody.edu. The land and
36:46
S1: the book@moody.edu. Charlie's back with his devotional next. Welcome back
37:04
S1: to the land and the book I'm John Gager confessing.
37:07
S1: I'd like to pray better, pray more effectively. Pray more
37:10
S1: like Jesus. Would you? If so, you're at the right
37:13
S1: place because our devotional ahead, Charlie, is centered around those themes.
37:17
S2: Absolutely. Right, John.
37:18
S1: All right. Let's get to that devotional after we listen
37:21
S1: to a testimony from an Israel traveler who shares this
37:24
S1: now with you and me.
37:30
S6: Hello. I've been listening to a little bit of the
37:32
S6: program today, and I wanted to say that as a
37:35
S6: high school teacher, uh, it is refreshing to hear a
37:39
S6: program on Christian station to using only the scriptures as sources.
37:46
S6: It was refreshing to hear a level headed scholarship sound
37:51
S6: educational judgment in the discussion of the nature and origins
37:56
S6: of the Jewish race. I have been in complete agreement
38:00
S6: with what I've heard, and I find that my students
38:03
S6: in high school honors students. Students who are supposed to
38:06
S6: be well-educated have many, many prejudices and misconceptions, some of
38:11
S6: which are based on religion from all quarters, both Christian
38:15
S6: and other religions, and also which are based simply on
38:19
S6: the information they're getting through all kinds of web pages, television,
38:25
S6: perhaps even from their own families. It is refreshing once
38:29
S6: again to hear a discussion which has an evenness about
38:34
S6: the sources and what I consider to be authentic educational
38:40
S6: authority or scholarship. Thank you for the discussion.
38:46
S1: All right, Charlie, I, I certainly need some instruction here.
38:49
S1: Help me out. Help our listeners out in how we
38:51
S1: do pray.
38:53
S2: Well, let me start. Last week I began this series
38:55
S2: focusing on prayers in the Bible. And we started with
38:58
S2: one of the most familiar prayers of all, the one
39:01
S2: we often mistakenly call the Lord's Prayer. But a better
39:04
S2: title for it might be The Disciple's Prayer, since Jesus
39:07
S2: actually presented it as a model that his followers could
39:10
S2: use as a template. And this week we'll look at
39:13
S2: that prayer in more detail. But before we explore what
39:16
S2: Jesus said, pause for a moment and look at the
39:19
S2: chapel here at the site. It commemorates the Beatitudes, Jesus
39:23
S2: opening words in the sermon on the Mount in this
39:26
S2: beautiful spot. It's easy to picture Jesus seated on the
39:29
S2: hillside with his disciples and other followers. Gathered around the
39:33
S2: Sea of Galilee stretches out below us, and from this
39:36
S2: spot we have a panoramic view of many sites described
39:40
S2: in the Gospels. Somewhere in this area, Jesus shared the
39:43
S2: most dynamic message ever delivered. He presented a standard for
39:47
S2: following God that surpassed anything taught by the other religious
39:51
S2: leaders of the day. And when it came to prayer,
39:54
S2: Jesus first exposed two approaches that, though common, missed the mark.
39:59
S2: Some were using prayer as a way to impress others.
40:02
S2: A second group saw prayer as little more than constantly
40:05
S2: reciting memorized lines and Send phrases. Both approaches failed to
40:09
S2: grasp the reality that prayer was really a conversation with
40:14
S2: our Heavenly Father. But being the master Teacher, Jesus then
40:18
S2: presented a model prayer to help his disciples grasp what
40:21
S2: such a meaningful conversation should look like. So let's look
40:25
S2: at the template Jesus has provided to help us know
40:27
S2: how to pray. It has six basic parts six imperatives
40:32
S2: or commands that summarize the elements Jesus says ought to
40:35
S2: be part of our prayer life. Jesus begins his model
40:39
S2: prayer by focusing on two realities. Our father, who art
40:43
S2: in heaven, hallowed be thy name. His first point is
40:46
S2: that God is our Heavenly Father, which means we're in
40:50
S2: a family relationship with the God of the universe. But second,
40:54
S2: the imperative or command in this phrase is that we're
40:56
S2: to ask God to hollow or sanctify or make holy
41:00
S2: his name. God's name refers to his essence, who he is,
41:05
S2: how he's regarded. Jesus is saying, the first thing we
41:08
S2: ought to focus on in prayer is asking God to
41:10
S2: work in a way that sets him apart as God. Lord,
41:14
S2: do what needs to be done to demonstrate to the
41:16
S2: world that you are God. Jesus model prayer then moves
41:21
S2: from God's character to God's plans for the future. His
41:25
S2: second and third imperatives focus directly on our desire to
41:29
S2: have God work out his will in the world. Thy
41:32
S2: kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it
41:35
S2: is in heaven. So many times we think of prayer
41:38
S2: as telling God what we want. Jesus reverses this and
41:41
S2: says we ought to first ask God to bring to
41:44
S2: pass what he wants. God has promised to send the
41:47
S2: Messiah to Israel to set up God's kingdom on earth.
41:51
S2: And that's what Jesus is primarily referring to here. But
41:54
S2: by way of application, Jesus is telling us that we
41:57
S2: ought to be focused on asking God to bring to
42:00
S2: pass what he wants to have accomplished, not what we
42:03
S2: want him to do for us. The difference here is subtle,
42:06
S2: but it's profound. It's easy for us to think of
42:09
S2: prayer as the way we rub the magic lamp. To
42:12
S2: have the genie from heaven who will grant us our wishes.
42:15
S2: But in this model prayer, the first three imperatives focus
42:19
S2: on God, not us. It's his name that needs to
42:22
S2: be sanctified. It's his program that needs to be accomplished.
42:26
S2: It's his will that needs to be done. In many ways,
42:29
S2: Jesus is saying, prayer is a conversation that aligns our
42:33
S2: will with God's. It's the kind of prayer that Jesus
42:36
S2: prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane when he said, father,
42:40
S2: if it's possible, let this cup pass from me. Nevertheless,
42:44
S2: not my will, but thine be done. We've reached the
42:47
S2: half way point in prayer, and up till now the
42:50
S2: focus has all been on God. But in the final
42:53
S2: three imperatives, Jesus illustrates how we can now pray for ourselves.
42:57
S2: He first says we can pray for our needs. Give
43:00
S2: us this day our daily bread. Jesus uses bread to
43:05
S2: picture all our genuine needs since food is essential to life. Lord,
43:09
S2: supply today what I really need today. God doesn't promise
43:13
S2: to give us everything we want, nor does he promise
43:16
S2: to provide today what we might need tomorrow. But he
43:19
S2: does promise to provide each day what we need for
43:22
S2: that day. And Jesus is telling us that it's okay
43:25
S2: to ask God to supply those needs. The fifth imperative
43:29
S2: in this model prayer is something we seldom include when
43:32
S2: we pray. And forgive us our debts, as we also
43:36
S2: have forgiven our debtors. The word for debt focuses on
43:40
S2: something rightfully owed to someone. Jesus is using the word
43:44
S2: in a spiritual sense here, since he says, we need
43:46
S2: to ask God to free us from the debt we
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S2: owe him. He isn't saying our eternal destiny will be
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S2: determined by how we respond to others, since he made
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S2: it clear elsewhere that the only way to heaven and
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S2: the father is through him. But he is saying that
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S2: in a family relationship, there are times when we need
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S2: to ask for forgiveness. And there are also times when
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S2: we need to extend that same forgiveness to others. Prayer
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S2: is a place where we can go and ask God
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S2: for forgiveness. It's also a place where we can talk
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S2: to him about extending that forgiveness to other people. Lord,
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S2: extend to me your forgiveness and give me a forgiving
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S2: spirit toward others. And then Jesus shares the final imperative
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S2: in his model prayer. And lead us not into temptation,
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S2: but deliver us from the evil one. We can ask
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S2: God to watch over us and protect us from all
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S2: the dangers we face in life. These include life's temptations
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S2: and the spiritual attacks of Satan. This prayer isn't some
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S2: formula Jesus wants us to memorize and recite back in
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S2: an unthinking way. He intended this as a model to
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S2: illustrate the kind of things his followers should include as
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S2: they talk with their Heavenly Father. The first three imperatives
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S2: focus our attention on God. Lord, do what needs to
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S2: be done to demonstrate to the world your God. Bring
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S2: your will to pass and accomplish your purposes here on earth,
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S2: including the return of your son and the establishment of
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S2: your kingdom. Once I see the world from God's perspective,
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S2: I'm now ready to share my needs with him. Provide
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S2: today what I need today. Extend to me your forgiveness
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S2: when I fail, and help me to extend that same
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S2: forgiveness to others. And protect me from the many temptations
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S2: I face in this life. As we get ready to
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S2: leave the Mount of Olives, what can we carry with
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S2: us to help us be more effective in our prayer life?
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S2: Let me suggest this. We've all memorized this prayer. So
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S2: the next time you pray, take each of the six
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S2: imperatives in prayer and recite them individually. Then, after saying
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S2: each phrase, pause and pray about that phrase in more detail.
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S2: Think about the words and look for ways to apply
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S2: them in your life today. It might just revolutionize the
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S2: way you pray.
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S1: Charlie, that's a great idea, and I thank you for
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S1: sharing this devotional and the very practical applications as well.
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S1: Maybe you'd like to hear this devotional again. The good
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S1: news is you can. Every program is available at our website,
46:24
S1: The land and the book.org, the land and the book.org. Well,
46:31
S1: that'll wrap things up for today. Just want to remind you,
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S1: our website is there for you with our podcast as well.
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S1: If you have yet to take advantage of that, why
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S1: not jump on the bandwagon? So many do at the
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S1: land and the book.org. I want to say thanks to
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S1: our host, Charlie Dyer, our producer, Dan Anderson. I'm John
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S1: Gager and the land, and the book is a production
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S1: of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.