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Why Genghis Khan's Great-Great Granddaughter Was Just as Badass · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you so
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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. It's a little bit overcast here
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Speaker 1: of us. I was going to say a couple, and
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Speaker 1: it was like, Casey is also a shining penny, all
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Speaker 1: his own super producer, Casey Pegram. Sure, he's definitely shining.
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Speaker 1: He's also she's shining up the room here because we're
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Speaker 1: once again in the odd studio where we it all together,
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Speaker 1: um face to face, as opposed to us inside the
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Speaker 1: looking in and your null that is me. Did I
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Speaker 1: not say that? Gosh, you're probably right then I didn't
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Speaker 1: say that. Hey, uh, since we're all in here together,
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Speaker 1: you guys want to wrastle, let's do it. I will
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Speaker 1: putting you any more at risk than you already are. Well.
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Speaker 1: hear it. But Um, theater of the mind, theater of
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Speaker 1: The Quister and myself actually uh, and he's put us
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Speaker 1: just like the Quister would say. Uh. You can also
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Speaker 1: if you want to check it out. And one of
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Speaker 1: these is a tribute to the late great Terry Jones.
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Speaker 1: Um was really sad to hear of his passing Monty
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Speaker 1: Python legend, director of my favorite Monty Python film, The
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Speaker 1: ones on the wall. There is Chuck as King, Arthur
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Speaker 1: josh As I believe, Sir Galahad, I believe. And then
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Speaker 1: we've got uh, there's Jonathan in the back and that's you, right, yeah,
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Speaker 1: that's me. Uh. You know what, we'll we'll just take
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Speaker 1: a picture of this and we'll post it on our
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Speaker 1: favorite Facebook site, Ridiculous Historians. And it wouldn't be theater
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Speaker 1: of the mind, I know, I know, but then they
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Speaker 1: wouldn't Maybe they wouldn't be here in it while they're
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Speaker 1: looking at the picture. So it's theater of the eye.
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Speaker 1: I like that. But the reason i bring up the
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Speaker 1: rassling is because I've got this personal moral code where
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Speaker 1: I I will not allow anyone to take my fair
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Speaker 1: tiny hand in marriage unless they can best me in
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Speaker 1: uh in a in a wrestling match. Um. And it
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Speaker 1: was weird because I've had this all, you know, it's
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Speaker 1: all my adult life. But you thought it was an
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Speaker 1: original I thought it was an original thought. I thought
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Speaker 1: that was just you know, I've got this code. Noal,
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Speaker 1: You're gonna stick to it. Then it turns out, you know,
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Speaker 1: we we were researching this episode on the great great
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Speaker 1: granddaughter of one Jengis Khan. You may know him as
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Speaker 1: Genghis Khan, but you may know him wrong. My friends
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Speaker 1: for it as Jengis like jenga Uh, and his great
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Speaker 1: great granddaughter was named Kutun. Mm hmm. That's four oa
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Speaker 1: real quick. It was pretty close. Well, I think we
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Speaker 1: could if he's mashed both of our pronunciations together, we
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Speaker 1: would end up with the right one, because it feels
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Speaker 1: like it should be three syllables, but it's the way
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Speaker 1: we're pronounced it is too We don't speak Mongolian. Please
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Speaker 1: be kind, but we're gonna go with Katune for now.
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Speaker 1: I think that's smart, also known as Shining Moon. That's right.
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Speaker 1: She was the great great granddaughter of Jengis Khan, as
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Speaker 1: you said, and she was believed to have been born
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Speaker 1: around twelve sixty to Kai Do, Kai Do was a
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Speaker 1: grandson of O g Dai Khan and a cousin of
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Speaker 1: Kublai Khan. Unlike Kubla Khan, the guy who founded the
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Speaker 1: Yuan dynasty and assimilated to Chinese culture, Kai Do said
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Speaker 1: We're gonna stay true to our roots. We started this
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Speaker 1: game as nomads, We're going out as nomads. We're keeping
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Speaker 1: that lifestyle. And this worked for him. By twelve eighty
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Speaker 1: he was one of the most powerful authorities in the
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Speaker 1: Mongol Empire, and he had an iron grip on his
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Speaker 1: knight and the connates, like the Mongol Empire was divided
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Speaker 1: into these different connates or sections of power. Is Kubla
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Speaker 1: Khan the same as Kubla Khan by the Samuel Taylor
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Speaker 1: Coleridge poem it's referenced. Yeah, I love the idea of
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Speaker 1: a stately pleasure exactly sunless Sea and Zana do did
5:24
Speaker 1: Kubla Khan a stately pleasure dome? Decree? Where Alf the Alf?
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Speaker 1: I love the idea of a river named Alf because
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Speaker 1: I can't just I can't not think of you know,
5:34
Speaker 1: the puppet cat eating alien alf? Uh? Yeah, wait where Alf?
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Speaker 1: The sacred river ran through caverns measureless to man, very
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Speaker 1: very beautiful poem by Cole Ridge. There Um, but we digress.
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Speaker 1: We pulled some pretty good background on the Mongol Empire
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Speaker 1: from ancient origins dot net um. It was quite the
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Speaker 1: fragmented empire um and the title of Great Cohn was
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Speaker 1: given to Kubla kN Um. It makes me think of
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Speaker 1: you know, the the dath RACKI and Game of Thrones. Clearly,
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Speaker 1: the whole idea of the Calls was very much pulled
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Speaker 1: from the cons you know, the whole there were horse
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Speaker 1: lords and all of that stuff. Well, the Song of
6:21
Speaker 1: Ice and Fire, the book series on which Game of
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Speaker 1: Thrones is based, is at times a beat for beat
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Speaker 1: reimagining of the War of the Roses. So a lot
6:29
Speaker 1: of a lot of the appeal of George R. R.
6:32
Speaker 1: Martin's work comes from the fact that it's so so
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Speaker 1: closely based on real life events. You know, I'm just
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Speaker 1: saying he never said, no way I made that up
6:43
Speaker 1: call is you know, that's a George thing. He's he's acknowledges.
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Speaker 1: Does that take away the creativity of it for you
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Speaker 1: or absolutely No? I don't think so, you know, I
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Speaker 1: think it strengthens the narrative. You agreed. Um, So, yeah,
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Speaker 1: we've got Kubla Khan who is the Great con But
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Speaker 1: unfortunately that was more or less a ceremonial title because
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Speaker 1: he wasn't particularly successful. This was a time of a
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Speaker 1: very petty and fruitless war against these warring clans um
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Speaker 1: a lot of infighting. I guess you could call it, right, Yeah, absolutely. Uh.
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Speaker 1: Think of the film The Highlander, when there can only
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Speaker 1: be one in the eyes of a lot of these rulers,
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Speaker 1: there can only be one great final boss of the
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Speaker 1: Mongol Empire, one great Cohn, and it's very King of
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Speaker 1: the Hill esque. Everybody wants that position because of this situation.
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Speaker 1: It's okay for these these people, these rulers, to be
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Speaker 1: open enemies. Kai Do clearly opposes Kublai Khan and anyone
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Speaker 1: who supports him. And this is the this is the rich, fertile,
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Speaker 1: dangerous political soil into which cartoon is born. She was
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Speaker 1: brought up like her father in that old school nomadic
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Speaker 1: way of life. She had fourteen older brothers, and as
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Speaker 1: she and her siblings grew up, they were taught the
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Speaker 1: traditional feats of the empire of this culture, archery, horse riding,
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Speaker 1: shooting bow and arrow from the back of a horse,
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Speaker 1: and of course wrestling. Katun was very good at all
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Speaker 1: these things, and some historians even said that she was
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Speaker 1: the favorite kid because she was also very smart. She
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Speaker 1: was a tactician, and the rumor is that her father
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Speaker 1: would bypass her fourteen brothers and come up to Katsun
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Speaker 1: and say, you know, okay, well what do you think
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Speaker 1: what do you think we should do? Should we should
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Speaker 1: we ride in on on horses? That's what we usually do.
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Speaker 1: We usually do the horse thing. And then she would
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Speaker 1: be like, I think that's smart. Let's let's stick with
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Speaker 1: a horse thing, dad, and then just really really quickly
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Speaker 1: to backtrack her great great grandfather, who is not going
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Speaker 1: to figure as much into this obviously, because that's generations passed.
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Speaker 1: Jengis Khan, he's known for kind of uniting these more clans,
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Speaker 1: was not sort of a big part of what he did,
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Speaker 1: and now that has all kind of fallen by the wayside, right,
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Speaker 1: and they've become fragmented again, which is interesting because he
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Speaker 1: was he led with such an iron fist that he
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Speaker 1: was able to kind of pull a lot of these
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Speaker 1: warring clans together and now they have kind of broken
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Speaker 1: apart again. Yes, for the just for the sense of
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Speaker 1: the empire here. Jenis Khan was born in eleven sixty
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Speaker 1: two and he passed away in twelve twenties seven, and
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Speaker 1: Cartune was born in twelve sixties, so this is after
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Speaker 1: he has passed, but people alive still remember him as
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Speaker 1: the great uniter. What important thing about Cartune. It's tempting
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Speaker 1: maybe to think she was exceptional or you know, the
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Speaker 1: word that would throw around the West, as a tomboy,
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Speaker 1: but we have to remember that given the nature of
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Speaker 1: the society, there was some gender equality. When it came
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Speaker 1: to horsemanship. Women would ride horses just as well as
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Speaker 1: the dudes, and every everybody at least had some proficiency
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Speaker 1: with a bow and arrow. That's right, if I'm not mistaken.
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Speaker 1: Even back in Jengiss day, Um, there were female warriors.
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Speaker 1: It was kind of a bit of an equal playing
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Speaker 1: field at least on the battlefield as far as gender
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Speaker 1: was concerned, isn't that right? More so than one would
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Speaker 1: see in Western Europe. I just remember being kind of
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Speaker 1: amazed by that. Are surprised by that fact, because you know,
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Speaker 1: you think of Jengis con as being this iron fisted,
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Speaker 1: super macho, kind of you know, dictator almost, but um,
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Speaker 1: he really did kind of see the big picture in
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Speaker 1: terms of everyone has something to contribute, at least when
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Speaker 1: it comes to fighting, right right. He was still a
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Speaker 1: real pill, as as I would say in Tennessee, but
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Speaker 1: he was a pill about different things. We also have
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Speaker 1: another famous figure who shows up who is a little
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Speaker 1: bit closer to the story than than good old Jengis,
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Speaker 1: which is what they probably called him, good old Jengi.
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Speaker 1: And that is this is the dumbest way thought of
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Speaker 1: introducing this. I hope you play along with it, North
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Speaker 1: and that character is Marco. You can tell her because
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Speaker 1: I'm closer to the mica. Fish out of water is that? What? What?
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Speaker 1: What does that? What happens then is that when you
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Speaker 1: get out of the pool and you try to sneak
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Speaker 1: out of the pool. What are the actual rules of
11:18
Speaker 1: Marco polo? So Marco polo blindfold in the pool game, Well,
11:23
Speaker 1: it depends on how much you trust the your playmates there.
11:27
Speaker 1: If you don't trust them, then wrap something around their head.
11:29
Speaker 1: But otherwise they're supposed to keep their eyes closed. They're
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Speaker 1: wandering around the pool and they go Marco, and when
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Speaker 1: they say Marco, the people who are hiding from them
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Speaker 1: have to say Polo, and then you use that echolocation. Well,
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Speaker 1: there are some other rules. There's fish out of water.
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Speaker 1: If they do that, then if they catch you getting
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Speaker 1: out of the water, then you're automatically Marco for that,
11:49
Speaker 1: then you're stoned to death basically, right, you had a
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Speaker 1: more intense pool culture than I did. We usually just
11:56
Speaker 1: switch sides at that point. Yeah, I grew up in
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Speaker 1: a weird men and I cult. Really, it sounds like
12:01
Speaker 1: you grew up in a fundamentalist sect somewhere in canadahar
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Speaker 1: Man stoning people to death, you know, it takes all kinds.
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Speaker 1: And Marco Polo was just the kind of guy for
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Speaker 1: this story. You know, he's the famous Venetian traveler. There's
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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff about him that's kind of, uh embellished.
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Speaker 1: I would say, it's actually a Netflix series about him
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Speaker 1: that I've heard good things about. Did you see it? Ben?
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Speaker 1: I did? I did? I am because of some of
12:29
Speaker 1: the research and fiction I do outside of the work stuff,
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Speaker 1: I really enjoy studying the story of Eurasia and Central
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Speaker 1: Asia and those explorations. So Pool Games aside, Marco polo
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Speaker 1: Um actually is the main source that we um have,
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Speaker 1: main primary source that we have on coutuune Um because
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Speaker 1: he Uh, in his travels, encountered her and wrote and
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Speaker 1: was just quite taken by her, and I believe she
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Speaker 1: actually features pretty prominently into the Netflix series. But he
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Speaker 1: wrote this about her, which we found on Ancient Origins
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Speaker 1: dot net. He referred to her as quotes so well
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Speaker 1: made in all her limbs, and so tall and strongly built,
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Speaker 1: that she might almost be taken for a giant test,
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Speaker 1: and that she was so strong that there was no
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Speaker 1: young man in the whole kingdom who could overcome her.
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Speaker 1: But she vanquishes them all. We'd like to give you
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Speaker 1: a sense of just how badass continue actually is. Here's
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Speaker 1: another quotation from Marco Polo describing her preferred method of combat.
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Speaker 1: Nothing scared her. Not only did Contune ride by her
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Speaker 1: father's side into battle, she'd regularly charge headfirst into enemy
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Speaker 1: lines to make a dash at the host of the
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Speaker 1: enemy and see some man. They're out as definitely as
13:52
Speaker 1: a hawk pounces on a bird and carry him to
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Speaker 1: her father. This is interesting because it almost sounds like
14:01
Speaker 1: some kind of brutal, bloodthirsty game of fetch, you know
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Speaker 1: what I mean. And I'm not saying that she was
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Speaker 1: a dog or trained or anything, but that's interesting that
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Speaker 1: she would just run in, snatch someone off a horse,
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Speaker 1: and then take him back to dad. How strong do
14:15
Speaker 1: you have to be to do that? Quite right, I
14:18
Speaker 1: would say, yeah, for sure, and that's that's definitely. I
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Speaker 1: mean she was a force to be reckoned with, for sure.
14:26
Speaker 1: But there was there was one battle that she was
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Speaker 1: very against, and that was one of the oldest battles
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Speaker 1: of the human species, romance. May I know, I love children?
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Speaker 1: What do you think about married with children? Man? Did
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Speaker 1: you enjoy that? It made me uncomfortable as a child?
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Speaker 1: Did me? Yeah? I was afraid. I was afraid that
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Speaker 1: I watched too much of it. It would like affect
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Speaker 1: my real life and it might end up like like
14:54
Speaker 1: al or Bud working at a shoe store. Well, there's
14:58
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with're working at a shoe store now, but
15:00
Speaker 1: he but it was specifically he was very um entranced
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Speaker 1: by women's feet. There was a lot of weird fetishism
15:06
Speaker 1: in that show. If I'm not mistaken, I think I
15:08
Speaker 1: was watching it too young an age to really understand.
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Speaker 1: It was pretty raunchy, like he had to look at
15:14
Speaker 1: a particular magazine before he got amorous with his wife. Yeah,
15:19
Speaker 1: that was I always thought was really hot. What's that
15:24
Speaker 1: actor's name who also does the voice of um the
15:27
Speaker 1: character on Futurama with the with the one eye, Leela
15:31
Speaker 1: Katie Seagal. Yes, huge, huge crush on Peggy Bundy, more
15:36
Speaker 1: so even than Kelly Christine Apple Gay. Yeah, but they
15:39
Speaker 1: were all good actors. They were What happened to the
15:41
Speaker 1: guy who played bud uh not a whole lot? What
15:45
Speaker 1: was his name? David Faustino? Yeah, that's right. You like
15:49
Speaker 1: the show more than I. I did, quite enjoy the show.
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Speaker 1: But no, Cotun did not like Mary with Children because
15:55
Speaker 1: it did not exist. She had like marriage as an institution,
15:58
Speaker 1: like marriage an institution, So she was trying to set
16:01
Speaker 1: herself up for failure essentially, right, she rigged the game.
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Speaker 1: She had that same code that I claimed to have
16:10
Speaker 1: had for so long that she would only marry the
16:13
Speaker 1: man who could best her in wrestling, which she was
16:17
Speaker 1: known to be an expert at. And also, um, how
16:22
Speaker 1: emasculating must that have been at the time? Right? Well?
16:25
Speaker 1: How difficult and unfair to women? Or were the marriages
16:28
Speaker 1: of the time, Oh, no question about it. But what
16:31
Speaker 1: I'm saying is what man would be willing to like
16:34
Speaker 1: submit himself to that kind of humiliation? Maybe you know,
16:37
Speaker 1: because he's like if he if he wins, then he
16:40
Speaker 1: looks like a big jerk who's like quote unquote beating
16:43
Speaker 1: up a girl, right, and if he loses, then he's
16:47
Speaker 1: been defeated by a woman, you know, and uh, and
16:50
Speaker 1: that would probably not sit well with his reputation. We'll
16:54
Speaker 1: keep in mind too, that the idea of marriage for
16:56
Speaker 1: romantic purpose is is a relatively recent ocean in our
17:01
Speaker 1: species and civilization. Many of these dudes doubtlessly did not
17:06
Speaker 1: were not particularly attracted to cartoon you know. They, as
17:10
Speaker 1: the ram comes say, they didn't love her for her marriages.
17:14
Speaker 1: Were these diplomatic deals like any other, uh, any other
17:18
Speaker 1: geopolitical arrangement. The fathers chose the husband based on how
17:23
Speaker 1: it would unite or divide a tribe, how it would
17:25
Speaker 1: help the balance of power, and the woman in the
17:28
Speaker 1: marriage has just the one husband. Here's why it stinks
17:32
Speaker 1: to be a woman in these marriages, because the men
17:35
Speaker 1: on the other side of the marriage bed have as
17:38
Speaker 1: many wives as they want, and they also have a
17:42
Speaker 1: harem of women they sleep with that they don't marry,
17:46
Speaker 1: so they have like this pokemon, got to collect them
17:49
Speaker 1: all approach, right, so they can have their cake and
17:53
Speaker 1: eat it too, which is just cartoonishly unfair to the women.
17:59
Speaker 1: Completely agree with you, there, Ben, So what's the point, right,
18:03
Speaker 1: what's the point of merit is an institution? Uh? Not
18:06
Speaker 1: only did she not want to be, you know, the
18:08
Speaker 1: the chattel of a man. I think probably part of
18:12
Speaker 1: her saw that inequality and saw that disconnect and was like,
18:16
Speaker 1: I don't want any part of that. I should have
18:18
Speaker 1: the same choice as any man. I should be able
18:21
Speaker 1: to stand on my own two feet. I can best
18:23
Speaker 1: demand in wrestling. Um, I can fight alongside men on horseback,
18:27
Speaker 1: shooting my bows and arrows. Um. Why should I allow
18:30
Speaker 1: myself to be the chattel of some dumb man? Right?
18:35
Speaker 1: So Kai Do says, you're you're a woman now, girl boom,
18:42
Speaker 1: you're really singing your heart out today? Then? Oh? Is
18:45
Speaker 1: it is? Is this working? This is a good sound? Well,
18:48
Speaker 1: you know, just we can't because apparently we can't play
18:53
Speaker 1: actual songs in their diarity. But that would make the
18:56
Speaker 1: episode too long too Uh So yes, Kai Do says,
19:00
Speaker 1: you are coming of age. I need to marry you
19:02
Speaker 1: off cartoon and she says, look, I know we're both
19:06
Speaker 1: very into our our culture or nomadic lifestyle, and I
19:11
Speaker 1: get that you feel this is the right moment in
19:13
Speaker 1: my life to get married and that this will help
19:16
Speaker 1: our our clans greater aims. But I don't really want
19:21
Speaker 1: to do it. So I will get married on one condition, right,
19:26
Speaker 1: I think you can guess what it is. You know,
19:27
Speaker 1: we've been talking about this whole time. The condition that
19:31
Speaker 1: she be bested by said man, said suitor. Uh, in
19:37
Speaker 1: combat hand to hand wrestling. Right, So if any man wins,
19:43
Speaker 1: then she becomes his wife. But what happens if the
19:46
Speaker 1: man loses? He doesn't get killed? No, No, you're very
19:51
Speaker 1: pro stoning to death. Man. Have you ever seen it happen?
19:53
Speaker 1: It's not pretty. Just in Marco Polo came right. Uh,
19:57
Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad, but it was a tremendous financial
20:02
Speaker 1: blow if they were if they were defeated and wrestling,
20:06
Speaker 1: they would have to give Katoon one hundred horses. Is
20:10
Speaker 1: that like the name of their currency or like physical horses?
20:13
Speaker 1: Yet a hundred actual horses? Yeah? No word on the
20:17
Speaker 1: quality of the horses, if they had to be stallions,
20:20
Speaker 1: or if it was okay for them to be fouls, whatever,
20:22
Speaker 1: what if you like, I'm sure you wouldn't accept like
20:24
Speaker 1: some sickly horses. I don't know. That's the thing about
20:27
Speaker 1: a hundred horses at once. You can kind of thread
20:29
Speaker 1: them in if you're unethical, the same way that people
20:32
Speaker 1: like will use a roll of twenty dollar bills but
20:35
Speaker 1: the inside is just one dollar bills. You've done this before,
20:39
Speaker 1: I have not. No, No, I'm a straight shooter in
20:41
Speaker 1: the criminal underworld when it comes to horse trading at least. Yeah,
20:44
Speaker 1: when it comes to horse trading, which might be legal
20:46
Speaker 1: enjoying or not horse trading, but horse racing and betting
20:50
Speaker 1: might be legal in Georgias. And yeah, there has nothing
20:53
Speaker 1: to do with anything horses. Uh. And isn't it kind
20:56
Speaker 1: of an inherently a little bit of a it's very
20:59
Speaker 1: proud problematic enterprise. Yeah, so uh, back to the historical horses.
21:05
Speaker 1: Let's hop on our historical horses here? Could Tune has
21:09
Speaker 1: a lot of people come try to wrestler? Right, of
21:12
Speaker 1: course she does, which is which goes completely against what
21:15
Speaker 1: I thought would happen. Um, because again I would think
21:18
Speaker 1: who would who would want to submit themselves to this?
21:20
Speaker 1: But I guess they were less concerned about being beaten,
21:23
Speaker 1: and they were pretty sure that they would reign supreme.
21:25
Speaker 1: It's almost like a reverse kind of glass slipper situation, right, absolutely,
21:29
Speaker 1: And this adds up pretty quickly. Could Tune reportedly gains
21:36
Speaker 1: over ten thousand horses from these wrestling matches. If you
21:40
Speaker 1: do the math, one per loss to ten thousand, that
21:44
Speaker 1: means she wrestled and beat more than a hundred dudes.
21:48
Speaker 1: That's legendary. Man, that's crazy. They are professional wrestlers who
21:52
Speaker 1: haven't beat more than a hundred people, that's true. I
21:55
Speaker 1: don't know that there are more than a hundred professional
21:58
Speaker 1: wrestlers in the w w E. Cannon surely he thinks,
22:02
Speaker 1: oh god, have you looked up their WICKI in the
22:05
Speaker 1: eighties they had some well I mean at one time, oh,
22:08
Speaker 1: at one time, yeah, I don't know. I think overall yes,
22:11
Speaker 1: But cannon was the wrong word. We discussed that in
22:14
Speaker 1: the last episode. I'm clearly a little foggy on what
22:17
Speaker 1: canon means. There's a fantastic line that really, uh sets
22:21
Speaker 1: the tone for all this. So let's let's you know
22:23
Speaker 1: she gained ten thousand horses defeated more than a hundred suitors.
22:27
Speaker 1: In a book called She Caused a Riot about cotune Um,
22:33
Speaker 1: Hannah Jewel described the scene as such. The Mongolian steps
22:40
Speaker 1: and the geographical steps were littered with the debris of
22:44
Speaker 1: shattered male egos. I like that imagery. Um, and you know,
22:50
Speaker 1: I gosh, you can't, you can't, you can't not root
22:53
Speaker 1: for Contunune in this whole situation, right, I mean, these
22:56
Speaker 1: guys were cocky. They came along thinking they were just
22:59
Speaker 1: going to walk away with the keys to the kingdom
23:03
Speaker 1: a k a. Contune's hand in marriage. Let's not forget
23:07
Speaker 1: she's a princess. This is a big deal to to
23:10
Speaker 1: be her suitor. You would, you know, be in line
23:13
Speaker 1: for the throne or you know, a very high position
23:17
Speaker 1: of power. Um. One particularly cocky suitor up the anti
23:21
Speaker 1: significantly and bet a thousand horses on one of these
23:25
Speaker 1: wrestling matches. And you know, Cartuns parents supposedly liked the guy,
23:30
Speaker 1: and we're really hoping that they'd that they'd work out. Um,
23:34
Speaker 1: so they actually asked Contune to please darling daughter throw
23:42
Speaker 1: the match. I can't believe. Again, this also kind of
23:45
Speaker 1: speaks to the relative progressiveness of this culture, right, Like,
23:50
Speaker 1: you know, they're allowing this to go down. They're they're
23:53
Speaker 1: not just saying no, you gotta marry whoever, we say,
23:56
Speaker 1: They have agreed to her her you know Cava here, right,
24:00
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe she was a bruiser with her parents too.
24:03
Speaker 1: This is the this is the thing, right. She listens,
24:07
Speaker 1: Picture her with her hands steepled, maybe a little her
24:10
Speaker 1: fingers steepled rather maybe Monty Burne style, going as their
24:15
Speaker 1: parents are telling her all this stuff. And then she goes, Okay,
24:19
Speaker 1: I've listened to your advice. I've taken your counsel. So
24:22
Speaker 1: she goes into the ring and then, as Marco Polo says,
24:26
Speaker 1: she throws him right valiant Lee on the palace pavement
24:29
Speaker 1: takes the one thousand horses, and Kaidu here is a
24:32
Speaker 1: little conflicted because he's like, he's he's supposed to get married,
24:36
Speaker 1: but also horses are money, and we were rolling in
24:40
Speaker 1: the horse poop today, like in a good way. We
24:43
Speaker 1: have this wealth, we have this status. People respect us.
24:46
Speaker 1: And eventually he got to the point where he just
24:49
Speaker 1: started saying, you know what, her fourteen brothers are okay,
24:53
Speaker 1: but my daughter Contune deserves to be the next con
24:57
Speaker 1: more than any dude in Mongolia. Didn't say dude, he said, man,
25:01
Speaker 1: of course. And you know, besides, I mean, I think
25:03
Speaker 1: there's plenty of obvious reasons why Cotune would not have
25:06
Speaker 1: wanted to be tied down to a man. We talked
25:09
Speaker 1: about that culture of the concubine and the harem situation
25:13
Speaker 1: and the fact that women who were married were at
25:16
Speaker 1: that point, uh, sort of sub citizens, right, they were
25:20
Speaker 1: really just the property of their husbands. She wanted better
25:23
Speaker 1: than that for herself. I think that's clear just from
25:26
Speaker 1: the way she carried herself and you know how important
25:29
Speaker 1: that warrior lifestyle was to her. So it's entirely possible
25:33
Speaker 1: that that was the main reason why she didn't want
25:35
Speaker 1: to marry. There's also some speculation that she could have
25:38
Speaker 1: been gay, and uh, that was something that was not
25:41
Speaker 1: acceptable and that she would not have been able to
25:44
Speaker 1: openly discuss um. So she you know, created this whole
25:48
Speaker 1: situation with the wrestling so that she would never have
25:50
Speaker 1: to be married. But my money is on just her
25:55
Speaker 1: being a strong willed, individualistic human person who did not
25:59
Speaker 1: want to give all of that up because of course
26:02
Speaker 1: with marriage comes you know, babies and pregnancy, and a
26:07
Speaker 1: pregnant woman isn't going to be able to um, you know,
26:11
Speaker 1: leap into battle, right, That's that's not something that will
26:13
Speaker 1: be on the table and then she'll be fussed over.
26:16
Speaker 1: And she didn't want to be fussed over. She wanted
26:18
Speaker 1: to be completely independent. So there are a couple of
26:27
Speaker 1: rumors here. Now we're leaving the sunny, well lit land
26:31
Speaker 1: of historical fact and we're entering uh the overcast region
26:36
Speaker 1: of historical speculation. There are differing accounts of why Cartoon
26:43
Speaker 1: was not into the idea of marriage, and some of
26:47
Speaker 1: them involve the idea of romantic relationships with family members.
26:53
Speaker 1: One rumor says that she was in love with one
26:55
Speaker 1: of her first cousins and she was unable to marry
26:59
Speaker 1: this indivi vidual. The thing about that is, you know,
27:02
Speaker 1: a romantic relationship with the first cousin at that time
27:05
Speaker 1: throughout the world would not be particularly unusual, so there
27:09
Speaker 1: would have been some other intervening reason. You can read
27:12
Speaker 1: more about that one on History collection dot co. There's
27:16
Speaker 1: also this is like the Mongol Empire version of TMZ
27:21
Speaker 1: level news, please treat it as such. We found this
27:24
Speaker 1: article on all That's Interesting dot com that says she
27:28
Speaker 1: decided to get married because rumors were spreading that she
27:32
Speaker 1: was having an incestuous affair with her own father, and
27:36
Speaker 1: that she chose to marry a man without wrestling him
27:40
Speaker 1: because she wanted to save her father's reputation. Yeah, that's
27:45
Speaker 1: a lot. Uh. That's where you know, the the duty
27:48
Speaker 1: and honor and obligation stuff kicks in the high gear.
27:52
Speaker 1: Another historian, uh Rashad al Din says that it's it's
27:58
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a happy ending that she
28:00
Speaker 1: did actually finally fall in romantic love and married a ruler,
28:06
Speaker 1: a ruler in the Mongol Empire based in Persia named
28:09
Speaker 1: gaj These. I don't know, man, The last one we
28:12
Speaker 1: heard was that she married a prisoner who tried and
28:15
Speaker 1: failed to kill her father. I mean, I guess she
28:18
Speaker 1: maybe would have respected the audacity, you know, and the
28:22
Speaker 1: pluckiness of it all right. She seems like a y
28:25
Speaker 1: has a very interesting code that just makes the wedding
28:28
Speaker 1: dinner so weird, really awkward, really awkward. Tried and failed
28:33
Speaker 1: like you passed, uh you you know, you pass the
28:36
Speaker 1: plate of horsemeat or whatever to your father in law
28:39
Speaker 1: and he's like, did you poison it? And you go, ah,
28:43
Speaker 1: that's funny, bad busting my jobs, busting your horse chops.
28:47
Speaker 1: But again, she's such a unique person with such a
28:50
Speaker 1: individualistic perspective. I could see how she would respect somebody
28:53
Speaker 1: who would have the again, the audacity to go after
28:57
Speaker 1: her father. She has scruples of plenty, and not the
29:00
Speaker 1: orency exactly. We do know that eventually she did, she
29:04
Speaker 1: did get married, she did take a husband, but she
29:07
Speaker 1: was never defeated as a wrestler. Uh, And that was
29:10
Speaker 1: universally acknowledged throughout the land. When Katun is in her
29:15
Speaker 1: early forties, her father is Ailien kai Do is dying.
29:20
Speaker 1: He is surrounded by his children as multiple wives. On
29:24
Speaker 1: his literal deathbed, he says, I regret never appointing Katun
29:28
Speaker 1: as the leader of our clan. She's not just the strongest,
29:34
Speaker 1: but she's also very well respected by the soldiers. She is,
29:39
Speaker 1: by far and away streets ahead, the best leader we
29:43
Speaker 1: could have had. And that's on me. Why didn't he
29:45
Speaker 1: do it? Then? He could have done it. He couldn't
29:48
Speaker 1: he have like done that with his dying breath appointed
29:51
Speaker 1: her khan. Well, it would have been breaking Mongolian traditions
29:55
Speaker 1: to name her con to have a female con And
30:01
Speaker 1: everybody is aware of his personal beliefs, but they're also
30:04
Speaker 1: aware of the traditional stuff. At this point, you know,
30:07
Speaker 1: she's forty one years old, She's got years of experience. Uh.
30:11
Speaker 1: People in the army really respect her, and they're also
30:14
Speaker 1: kind of terrified of her because again, she can ride
30:17
Speaker 1: a horse into battle, literally snatched someone off the horse,
30:21
Speaker 1: just like a hawk, picking up a little rodent, and
30:24
Speaker 1: then bring it back wherever she pleases. She is a
30:27
Speaker 1: b a, but despite her father's wishes, she's not allowed
30:31
Speaker 1: to be a con because her fourteen brothers that we
30:34
Speaker 1: mentioned put a lot of pressure on. Yeah, I forgot
30:37
Speaker 1: about the fourteen brothers. They wouldn't have that. This feels
30:40
Speaker 1: like a real life fairy tale. There's a weird test
30:42
Speaker 1: to marry the princess. There's an egregious number of siblings, right,
30:47
Speaker 1: that's right, um. And so there's even some speculation that
30:52
Speaker 1: her brothers had planned to have her killed because the
30:55
Speaker 1: rules of of the who ascends to be the Great
30:59
Speaker 1: cohn uh do not revolve entirely around gender or around
31:03
Speaker 1: the lineage uh you know age, rather uh there specifically
31:07
Speaker 1: about who's the strongest. So they knew that she was
31:09
Speaker 1: the strongest, and they were worried that she would overtake them,
31:14
Speaker 1: and therefore supposedly, you know, hatch some kind of plot
31:17
Speaker 1: to have her killed, But that's not really proven. It's
31:20
Speaker 1: just something that we've seen floating around here and there.
31:23
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the idea that maybe they had her killed
31:25
Speaker 1: or poisoned. And a lot of this is attributed to
31:29
Speaker 1: the fact that when Kubla Khan took over control of
31:32
Speaker 1: the empire, he actually used a lot of the stories
31:36
Speaker 1: of continue as propaganda, so they were much exaggerated and
31:40
Speaker 1: kind of twisted to serve his purposes. And it wasn't
31:44
Speaker 1: until we started seeing those Marco Polo accounts come up
31:48
Speaker 1: that people really started to hear the truth about Continuing Story.
31:53
Speaker 1: And you might say, what a what a neat fascinating story.
31:58
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Ben Nolan case for for clueing me in.
32:01
Speaker 1: But we have one last twist for you. Uh. This
32:05
Speaker 1: might surprise some people. It might be a well known
32:08
Speaker 1: fact as some of our fellow listeners already, But the
32:11
Speaker 1: story of Cartoon, uh maybe a family story that is
32:16
Speaker 1: personal to you and you didn't know it because you see,
32:19
Speaker 1: Cartoon was far from being the only descendant of Jengis Khan.
32:24
Speaker 1: In fact, why chromosome data and research that came out
32:27
Speaker 1: a number of years ago, I think uh proves that
32:30
Speaker 1: about point five percent of the male population of the
32:33
Speaker 1: world is somehow descended from Jengis Khan. I mean was
32:38
Speaker 1: a busy boy. I mean, you know. It's interesting though
32:43
Speaker 1: when you think of it, like, even for the three
32:45
Speaker 1: of us in this room, this might be a family
32:47
Speaker 1: story for one of us. Yeah, oh wait, wait wait wait,
32:50
Speaker 1: not you, because we know your DNA You're you're Scandinavia,
32:54
Speaker 1: pretty exclusively Scandinavian, which is pretty cool, right. It's arkly eyes,
33:01
Speaker 1: just got my red my redness in my beard, you
33:03
Speaker 1: know all that stuff. I'm cool with it. It was
33:06
Speaker 1: just a little underwhelming. I guess you know my ancestry
33:09
Speaker 1: dot Com results. You wanted a twist. I wanted a twist.
33:12
Speaker 1: You wanted something you wanted, like an unmarked helicopter to
33:15
Speaker 1: land in your backyard and some guy get out of
33:17
Speaker 1: the helicopter and come up and say, come with us.
33:19
Speaker 1: You are the chosen. I was kind of hoping twenty
33:22
Speaker 1: three of meat only exist to find me exactly here's
33:28
Speaker 1: the child. I still haven't uh, I still have not
33:31
Speaker 1: taken any DNA tests. I know you guys are a
33:34
Speaker 1: reticence to do so. I don't know why. I don't care.
33:37
Speaker 1: I guess I just have no sense of self preservation. Well,
33:40
Speaker 1: people like to learn about themselves. It's I mean, that's true. Casey,
33:43
Speaker 1: did you ever take a DNA test? I have not. No.
33:46
Speaker 1: I Um, I'm still entertaining the fantasy of my DNA
33:49
Speaker 1: not ending up in a database somewhere. Fantasy. Yeah, that's
33:53
Speaker 1: a that's a good word. That's a nice story. So
33:57
Speaker 1: thank you so much to everyone for tuning in. Uh,
34:00
Speaker 1: thanks of course to Gabe. Thanks to Christopher. I feel
34:04
Speaker 1: like we're almost on a first name basis now as
34:06
Speaker 1: an audience with these guys. Uh. Thanks of course to Alex,
34:10
Speaker 1: who composed our banging track big time. Thanks to Alex.
34:15
Speaker 1: Thanks to Eve's check out her show This Day in
34:18
Speaker 1: History class um, and uh, you know slight thanks to
34:22
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland the Devious Question. You can check him out
34:25
Speaker 1: in his human form on a show called Tech Stuff
34:29
Speaker 1: that Exists out there in the world, as well as
34:31
Speaker 1: when he materializes in our studio to read havoc on
34:35
Speaker 1: our mental health. I feel like we need to soap
34:37
Speaker 1: this outrope before he hops in. Uh, so real quick.
34:40
Speaker 1: We're on Facebook, We're on Instagram, we're on Twitter. We
34:43
Speaker 1: may or may not push the picture from this studio
34:45
Speaker 1: on our Facebook page. Let's be honest, we're not going to.
34:48
Speaker 1: I might if you're cool with it. I'm cool with
34:50
Speaker 1: Are you cool with it? Casey? Fine? Alright? Wow, Okay
34:53
Speaker 1: that was real cold. Fine, alright, well we're going to
34:57
Speaker 1: do it anyway forward to the future. Uh. Find us
34:59
Speaker 1: on Ridiculous Historians. You can also find us as individuals
35:03
Speaker 1: on the social meets. Yeah. You can find me exclusively
35:05
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I am at how Now Noel Brown. I
35:08
Speaker 1: am at Ben Bolan on Instagram. Uh. Stay tuned of
35:11
Speaker 1: going to do some weird, crazy things. Uh. And I
35:13
Speaker 1: am at Ben Bolan on Twitter, where you can see
35:16
Speaker 1: my overwhelmingly positive opinion of people's pets. We'll see you
35:20
Speaker 1: next time. Books. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
35:29
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
35:32
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.