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Understanding Modern Publishing with Amy Brewer · WriterCon

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This week on the Writer KHN podcast. It would be to do this because
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you have a passion for us, because you can't possibly imagine your wife being
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anything else. This has to be driving you to get these words out before
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you have to feed your soul. Welcome to Writer Khan, a gathering place
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for writers to share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your hosts
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are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of the Red Sneaker books on
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writing, and Renee Gutteridge, best selling author of over thirty novels and screenplays.
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Hey they're writers. Well we're all back home again. The cruise is
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over, but the retreat will be happening in a couple of months actually,
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and of course the big conference Writer Khan will come after that on Labor Day
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weekend. It is also graduation season. I'll be attending three ceremonies this year,
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including one for my son Ralph, who of course is, among other
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things, the official Writer Con photographer, and one for my wife, who
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co hosted last week. Well now she's got a master's degree in addition to
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seven published books. We're a a You've got a graduate in the family,
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too, don't you. I sure do very excited. My first born graduated
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and we're a thrilled for him. And uh, yeah, it's a it's
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a good feeling, isn't it. Yeah, exactly, it really is.
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And speaking of special events, Jesse, I think I read that you and
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Michelle just celebrated an anniversary. Am I right? That is correct? Um,
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we had our but we we timed it so our sort of dating anniversary
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and our wedding anniversary are pretty much the same day. They're tendually one day
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apart, which is a confusion to everyone in our family. But yes,
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so Michelle and I have technically been together for twenty three years married smokes.
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Wow, yeah, wow. Yeah. We met at the tail end of
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high school. It's very sweet. Wait, you know, if it's your
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but it's your eleventh anniversary, it's for twelve years. Yes, well,
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because we started daying at the end of high school and then dated through college
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and it seemed weird to get married during college. Um, and then she
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spent two years in France. I've waited a year, then went to grad
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school in Boston, and then living in Boston was will finally commenced us to
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try living together, and then from that point a couple of years later we
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got married. Okay, yeah, it was sounding like you got worse commitment
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issues than most of my characters, but yeah, I mean, honestly,
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it was just it was Michelle's desire by whether she wanted to be the center
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of attention for a day or not, which is really the hold off.
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And I was like, whenever you're ready, so and uh, that's cool.
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Yeah, all right. Our interview today is with Amy Brewer, who
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is a senior literary literary agent at the Metamorphosis Literary Agent, which is a
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premier outfit currently seeking well crafted fiction and nonfiction. She's also the co author
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of a book, Texting Prince Charming, and she's a social media manager and
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a yoga instructor. I mean, she does it all. She'll be at
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Wryter Con this year and she joined us on the writer Con cruise where she
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spent and I'm not exaggerating hours, she spoke to every single member of our
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groups. So put that into perspective, just to toot the writer Con horn
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a little bit. At most conferences, your pitch sessions are one maybe two
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minutes if you're lucky. At Wryter Con they're ten minutes unless you do pitch
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fest, in which there's more of it. On the cruise, she spoke
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to people for hours, not just taking pitches but giving insightful career advice and
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guidance. Anyway, while we were on the cruise, she was also kind
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enough to sit for an interview, and we're going to share that with you
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now, So be prepared for the change in hosts and locations. And I'm
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sure it'll sound differently because when we were on the cruise, we're all crowded
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in a very small library. But Jesse made it work, right, I
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did. All right, we'll talk to Amy after the news segment, and
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Find out more at draft to digital dot com. All right, our first
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news story, we should probably just start a continuing segment. We call the
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Patterson Report because this is the third consecutive time he's featured in the news segment
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two episodes again. Ago he was upset because his Maximum Ride series was banned
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by a Florida school district. Last time, he was upset because his most
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recent book didn't hit the best seller list, even though the raw sales data
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indicated that it actually sold better than most of the books that were on the
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list. And now he's here because he has achieved an unprecedented milestone. He
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is now officially the first author to sell more than a hundred million copies in
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print formats. According to Circona Book Scan, His nearest competitor, with a
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puny eighty three million copies in print is who wants to guess? Renee?
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What do you think we'll do? Final Jeopardy? Oh gosh, I mean,
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I don't think it's Stephen King. It is not he's That would have
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been my guest too. He's not even in the top seven. I don't
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know why, but he's not Jesse. What do you think I was gonna
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say, the Bible? Well, but we're talking authors here, and the
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Bible has yes, let's see m Honestly, Yeah, who uh, I
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have know what is I don't know the answer is Doctor Seuss has the puny
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eighty three million copies. Since you ask, I thought you would say JK.
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Rolling, who is in fact number three. Yeah, but then I
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thought I thought volume of books. Yeah, you know that, I mean
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James Patterson. He has well, that's a good point hundreds probably in Rolling
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has essentially seven, although I know she's done some other small books. Jeff
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Kinney. You know, Wimpy Kid is number four, Nora Roberts five,
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Mary Pope Osborne The Magic Tree Houses six, and John Grisham comes in at
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seven with forty two million books, which you know I'd probably be happy with,
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but compared to one hundred million, it starts to sound like, you
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know, he's an underachiever. I remember last time you mentioned Jesse that you
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did not feel sympathy for James Patterson. What about now, now that he
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is apparently the best selling author ever. Now I feel even less sympathy,
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Like, just stop complaining, like you sold the most books ever, what
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else do you want? You don't even have to write your books. You
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have your team of ghostwriters to write them for you, Like you don't have
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to do anything just like swimming your money and be happy like Uncle Scrooge.
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Yeah, I will give him credit for you know, I think he loves
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stories and he's very good at think I'm a series he's run. He started
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about Alex Cross, then the Women's Murder Club. Michael Bennett, we talked
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about Maxim Ride Zoo, which was some kind of television series. I mean,
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even if he's not writing every word himself, he seems to be a
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font of story ideas. All right, news story number two. This has
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to do with Barnes and Noble. This is where I have to eat crow,
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because I know five four more years ago, I was predicting Barnes and
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Noble would not be around much longer. But it is, and according to
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their CEO, they've made great strides in terms of returns. Just in case
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somebody doesn't know, let me briefly explain that in the book world, when
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we talk about returns, we're talking about a bookstore's ability to return to send
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back books they don't sell and get credit for it. Although in some cases
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for a while they just had to rip off the covers of paperbacks and send
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back the cover. Now in some cases they don't even have to do that,
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they can just destroy the book and tell the distributor they didn't sell it
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anyway. The point of this is that the current CEO, James dont has
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revealed that the chain now has returns down to seven percent from a previous thirty
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percent when he took over. I mean, that's a huge difference, and
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he's clearly hoping hoping to drop it even further. He said he'd like to
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get it down to three percent. Renee, You've been in this business a
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long time. Do you think three percent returns is even possible? I mean
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I don't. We'll say yes because we're cheering this on. They're gonna be
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positive. Can I ask a question, though I might or have forgotten we
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talked about this, what does he do? What's the secret sauce here that
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he claims? Well? One thing that he did mention in the interview was
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that once upon a time, time, Burns and Noble did a lot of
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pay for play placements. You know, the publisher would give them typically ten
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or fifteen thousand dollars and then you'd get shelved on an end cap or at
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the front where it said best sellers, which had nothing to do with sales.
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It just had to do with being a butt spot. But of course
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the fact that your publisher paid for a spot does not necessarily mean the book's
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going to sell. And I think that was a reason a lot we're getting
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returned. But Daunt has apparently eliminated that and allowed local stories to be more
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in control of what books they show. They can feature local authors if they
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want to, or curate the collection based upon what's selling in their town.
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And oh, that fascinating concept, isn't it. Yeah, imagine that even
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in a chain store. But you raised the issue of cheering Jesse, what
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do you think should we be sharing for this huge chain? Am I the
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only one who remembers the movie You've Got Mail? I remember? Like Barnes
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Noble, Noble used to be the enemy, right, But here's the thing.
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The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Situation here, right,
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we want Barnes and Noble to succeed so that bookstores, real bookstores can succeed
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against Amazon, you know, the evil empire for I mean, I don't
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see them becoming Barnes and Noble anytime soon. So yeah, I'm happy for
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Barnes and Noble. Here's the thing, Like Barnes and Nobles are nice.
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Uh you know, I'm yes, tell Us at least has multiple, um
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you know, independent nonprofit bookstores that I normally do and Magic City Fulton Street,
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Witty Books, Whitty I was there last week. Yep, those are
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they're They're all great, but sometimes like those stores are a lot smaller and
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only have a certain selection of books, and so Barnes and Noble is handy.
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Also Barnes and Noble really I feel like leaned into like nerd stuff.
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There's the whole corner at least in our store here of just like board games
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and Funko pops and um cool figurines. And I'm like, all right,
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I'll go to look at those things. So good job. I want to
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add into this. I think if we're like, if we could reverse this
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direction, right like I went up an Amazon. Now it's coming back and
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people are seeing the value of Barnes and Noble. I think one thing that
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small bookstores can tap into, which we have heard in the news consistently for
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months now, is that our world is lonely, right, Like they're talking
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about loneliness as the new epidemic. A local bookstore, if we can get
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these up and running can create community in a way that Barnes and Noble won't
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ever really be able to do. It's too big. So we'll be cheering
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these smaller stores on the see if they can create that, because that was
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what was so fun about those small Mama Pop bookstores is you you knew the
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people in the community. So hopefully that will work. Yeah, I hope
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so. Okay, final news story, speaking of geek stuff. Oh,
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I shouldn't have said that, but too late. J Warner Brothers has announced
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that the Harry Potter series of books, which of course they have rights to
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because they did the movie series, it's not going to be adapted into a
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decade long television series. So the idea is that each season will be based
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on one of the seven Harry Potter books, and it will stream on what
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I think is currently called HBO Max, but it's about to become Max.
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Jk Rowling and her agent are both going to be executive producers, and she
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issued a press release in which she said, quote Max's commitment to preserving the
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integrity of the books is important to me, and I'm looking forward to being
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part of this new adaptation which will allow for a degree of depth and detail
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only afforded by a long form television series. Okay, Jesse, you're our
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residents science fiction and fantasy expert. Do you think this is going to be
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a success. M Do I think it's gonna be a success. Probably.
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Is it a good idea? Yes, it always should have been a like
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Prestige TV show. Almost all book adaptations should be, because making ninety minute
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to two hour movie off a book is always going to leave out important character
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details. But is it too soon? I mean it seems like just yesterday
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I was met. Of course, I was marathoning those movies with Ralph when
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he was a single digit a's age, And as I just mentioned, he's
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about to graduate from college. So maybe it's not as reasoned as I think.
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Well, yeah, I'm trying. I feel like the first Harry Potter
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movie came out the same year Fellowship of the Ring Dance, like two thousand
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and one, and then they finished up in the early twenty tens. I
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mean, yeah, it's a little early for it, honestly. I mean,
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like the original actors are still like mostly alive. Oh cameos, there
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should be some great cameos, hopefully, can Daniel Radcliffe play Harry's dad this
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time around. That would be a yeah, I'm I'm I'm interested in that.
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I'm also I feel like maybe they have the data on this. If
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there's been like a whole generation of people continuously reading the books, there will
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be a new generation of people who will view the TV show as their thing
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versus the movies. I mean, I'm I'm interested to see what this is
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like. Considering the issues jk Rowling has had with her own fan base over
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the last couple of years, and how actors in this ship, actress who
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are signed onto the show respond to that, and again, how much control
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she has over because, as we've learned with her the most recent Harry Potter
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related movies, she's a great book writer, she's not necessarily a great scriptwriter.
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So hopefully they, once the strike is over, get some good writers
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for the show. Well. The other question, of course, is the
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controversy that has arisen in the past year or so regarding jk Rowling and her
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statements about trans individuals and whatnot. Is I can see that, you know,
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Max is treading softly around this issue, but these are still adaptations of
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her work. Is that going to be a problem for this series. I
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think it's to be a problem for some people for sure, because considering how
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they announced her involvement in it, like you know, the battle Harry Potter
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fans who have problems with JK. Rowling's views on trans issues is like they
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don't want to give her any more money than she already has and watching the
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show, Like that video game that came out a couple months ago, people
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were debating whether they should play it, And with this show, like she's
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directly involved with it. So it's gonna be There's definitely as people who are
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not going to watch it, and it depends on how loud they are and
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they'll definitely listen. Even within my own friend group, there is a break
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between like whether they can like whether they're their support of trans people and their
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their love of Harry Potter, like where the line where they draw a said
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line, And so it's gonna be interesting. I mean, I would love
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for it to be good. Well I watch it. I'm not sure where
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an a you were being suspiciously quiet? Was Harry Potter a big hit at
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your house? It was? It was, um, we loved it and
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uh I remember loving it. I think even more than my kids and I
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yeah, we loved it. It was it was great. And just watch
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the news series. I was gonna say, just a reminder, like people
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tried to cancel her books, the Harry Potter books when they first came out,
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too so because there was sorcery and yeah, yeah, yeah it was.
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It was a devil's work. So all right, that's enough news.
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Jesse, que up the music. Let's talk to Amy Brewer. Amy,
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thanks for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. This is
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wonderful, all right. Traditional first question, if you could give writers one
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piece of advice, what would it be. It would be to do this
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because you have a passion for it, because you can't possibly imagine your life
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being anything else. This has to be driving you to get these words out.
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These stories have to feed your soul. That is my best advice.
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Right for that, right for the passion, for love for the words.
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Don't write for the money, because finish the sentence, because the money is
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not always going to be there. You know, throughout history, the money
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hasn't been there for the greatest writers ever. They weren't as glamorous as we
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seem to think that they were so, but they loved words. Melodious beauty
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for glorious words, and if you've produced a book that you're proud of,
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this an accomplish exactly right. How did you get started working as a literary
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agent on myself? I'm a published co author, and I found as the
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co author, I was doing the editing, and I was doing the sort
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of the research, and I was doing all of the business side. And
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I kind of realized as we got deeper into the process and got our own
19:26
agent, I was thinking, oh, I'm kind of doing the agency stuff.
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That was where my strength was with, you know, talking to people,
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going up and shaking hands and making connections. And my co author,
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Patty Cruthers, was the phenomenal set at home and get those words out kind
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of thing. And I could come back in and say, oh, this
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needs more inkst in this scene, or these characters don't need to connect us
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right yet. And with that I became an intern with a literary agency and
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now I have been at it for I'm in my sixth year, Sound Fantastic
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and selling a lot of books for a lot of clients. Yes, a
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lot of books for a lot of clients. So it sounds like it kind
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of drew you in. It sounds like your skill set was very well matched
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to this. So what do you like most about being an agent? So
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I've always considered myself a bridge, connecting one thing to another, whether it
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is it was in yoga, it was a mental health. It's connecting people
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to kind of what they want, what they need, what they lost.
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And so for me it was that that being the bridge and connecting two people
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and then connecting them to their publishing dreams. So my favorite, my absolute
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favorite bit is when any of my authors, even if it's their seventh book,
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and they get their box of books in and they open it and they're
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crying because they've wanted this for solem or they wrote maybe something else for a
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while, but now this is some fresh idea and they weren't sure and they
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doubt it and have that in front of them and they're crying, and I'm
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crying, and that's just that's that's my favorite bit because that is always a
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wonderful moment. That's very first time you get to see your bulk. Now,
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now the other side of the coin. What do you least like about
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being an agent? What is it that's not as great? I hate having
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to tell people know, Yeah, it is really hard for me, and
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I have a tendency to sort of go to the improv route except opposite and
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yes, and I go no, but yeah, no for me. But
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there are a whole bunch of publishing options, There are a whole bunch of
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other agents out there. Just because it's not right for me doesn't mean it's
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not right for someone else. So that's always the hardest bit is having to
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say now, I think a lot of writers are sort of mystified by this
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whole literary agent process, and how do you get one and what is it
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take? Can you talk a little bit about the selection process, about choosing
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the writers you're going to represent. So connecting with an agent is about connecting.
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Yes, you want to find an agent that represents your genre. You
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want to find an agent that you know, I was going has traditional success
22:15
in selling what you ride. That's very important. But for me, I
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almost look like it at it like a marriage. So I ask people,
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I'm like, do I'm a very hypercommunicative I have a tendency to respond quickly
22:29
to emails, and I'm a bit of a cheerleader. So I'm like,
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Okay, if you're having a bad day, reach out to me and I'll
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be Usually i'll say just text me and I'll I'll hype you up, onto
22:40
your hype man, because it's my job to be as passionate about you and
22:44
your work as an author. But some authors really find that uncomfortable and they
22:48
aren't looking for that. They want somebody who's a little bit more sort of
22:52
standoffish, or they some of them money have even said, well, it's
22:56
not very professional because I text with my authors or I give them some access
23:03
that other agents don't, and that's okay. I just want to like,
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it's about connecting. So make sure they're the right fit for your genre,
23:11
the right fit for you, and honestly the person that you need in your
23:15
life, because they've got to be out there, you know, screaming at
23:18
New York. This book is awesome, you know, And if they can't
23:26
do that for you, then they're probably not the right agent. Whiz.
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I've had a lot of agents, but I'm not sure I've ever had anybody
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i'd call a Cheerleader's important to be super supportive and generous with time and information
23:41
because it's so hard being an author and feeling like you're so isolated and alone,
23:47
except for environments like writer Cohn or the writer con Cruise where you feel
23:52
like you have not just a group but like a family that we can all
23:56
like rely on now. And so much of the time it doesn't feel that
24:02
way, and it's like I don't know, I don't know, I don't
24:03
know. So for my authors, I want to be there too. If
24:07
they don't know, they can ask me. And if I can't help them,
24:10
I'll try and share them, share with them someone who can, or
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like say, go to writer con. I like that advice. That's good,
24:18
that's excellent avice. No, that's all terrific. Do you have like
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a favorite agent success story? Um, a favorite agent successful story? I
24:29
don't, or two if that makes it easier, because I'll be honest,
24:33
some of my best financial successes of an agent the author has walked away from
24:40
the publishing process feeling sad or disheartened because they didn't achieve whatever they had thought
24:47
or idealized or whatever. So for a success it is it is mostly I
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think I'll go with one of my authors, Mark Kelly, and he is
24:59
a LGB to Q author and when he was a teenager he could not find
25:03
an LGBTQ superhero, and he was varying to sci fi, varying too.
25:11
All he goes to cons and dress and he just felt again very alone and
25:15
isolated, and that representation wasn't there for him. So he spent his twenties,
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not all of his twenties. He'll get mad, coup him out for
25:26
being overjoyed, but he spent that time really buckling down and learning to write
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and rewrite, and rewrite and rewrite. And I said last year his work
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Geist was published, which is the origin story from one of the first case
25:41
superheroes. Oh, so that's that's what I'm here for. That's what I'm
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here to do. So kind of building on that, because you said some
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people have walked away a little disappointed, what advice would you give to authors
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who were looking for their agent right now? Manage your expectations. Writing is
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not like you see on television. A lot of folks in twenty twenty who
26:11
were at home, we're kind of like, I'll just write a book and
26:17
it would be easy, and it's not. It's really hard. And the
26:23
expectation is you get this. I some authors will say, well, I
26:29
need to hit the New York Times bestseller to be a success, and if
26:32
I'm not that, then I'm a failure instead of oh, I have to
26:37
work really hard for like thirty years to get to the New York Times bestseller
26:42
lists. And yes, there are outliers that make it like that. But
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if you really want to succeed in this industry, you have to have this
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stamina and the dumption to just keep on going book after book after book,
26:56
doing all of the marketing, all of the everything, because a lot of
27:00
times people will come to me and say, oh, I wrote this book,
27:03
but I don't really want to market it, so can you do something
27:04
with it? And I'm always like no, I'm sorry, that's not how
27:10
this works. So yeah, well, okay, let's get down to the
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nitty gritty. What are some of the things you see or have seen authors
27:19
doing that really hinder them rather than help them find an agent? Um overcomping
27:29
themselves. That is, it's um saying this is going to come just coming
27:34
right at first line, this book is going to be bigger than the Bible,
27:37
or this book is going to be bigger than Harry Potter, or um
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just coming in with ego first and um, and that's not really how the
27:48
industry works after a while, you can earn an ego, but it takes
27:53
it should takes a while, So that's that's a big one. Um.
27:59
Not knowing your genre is a big reason that an agent wouldn't take you on.
28:06
As I mentioned in class a few days ago, I was given a
28:10
seven hundred thousand word erotica and that genre is usually in the thirty thousand word
28:15
RD of erotica. That's like a lifetime the right and not having read a
28:26
word. There's nothing an Asian can do with that situation. So you need
28:30
to know your word count, you need to know your genre, you need
28:33
to know the formula for it, all of the things before you are ready
28:37
for an agent. So let's let's build on that. So you go to
28:42
you go to conferences, I would think fairly often. Yes, yeah,
28:47
and that's probably where you're going to have most of your connections made. People
28:51
are coming to you and they're pitching to you. What do you look for
28:56
in a pitch, like? What what's going to work? What isn't?
28:59
Honestly, it's going to be very similar. I'm looking for people that I
29:02
feel are motivated, people that really care about what they're talking about. Let's
29:07
expend on that a little bit. I think you go to conferences pretty regularly,
29:11
yes, and that's a great place for authors to connect with you.
29:17
And they're going to do that through a pitch. And so what is it
29:19
that you're looking for when someone comes to you to pitch? What helps them?
29:23
What doesn't The most helpful thing in a pitch is that they know what
29:29
I'm looking for and that they are pitching sort of again in the genre that
29:33
I represent most or something they said, Oh, I saw this interview and
29:37
you said that you like this. I have something that is, you know,
29:41
similar to that, something close. What's difficult is when someone again like
29:47
the like I had just said about the erotica, when someone's like, oh,
29:49
I've written a really dark horror and you've never really sold that, but
29:55
can you be my agent? And I'm like, I don't know the right
29:57
editors in that genre. I can't. I'm not the right person to connect
30:02
you with that. So that's that's one of the big things. And I'm
30:06
not really worried, Like folks are always very nervous, and I've even held
30:11
hands and like breathed with our authors because they were so scared to spit out
30:15
the premise of their book. But it's okay, um, take your time,
30:21
breathe. And that doesn't apply to all pitch sessions because some are very
30:25
short. Not a writer, Not a writer, I say. And also
30:30
I'm very expensive at some conferences. And it's okay to ask questions of the
30:36
agent. Um, that's always fine. I always ask the author after they've
30:41
told me about their book. If I'm interested, I've asked for the full
30:45
I'll say, what else do you write? What else have you done?
30:48
What communities are you in? So be prepared to answer some of those questions
30:52
about yourself and about your you know, your writer history. Um. And
30:56
I think that is really the what I'm looking for, because I'm not looking
31:02
for sort of a person who's wrote. I've written one book and that's all
31:06
I care about, and I'm not going to write anymore. I can't really
31:08
help a person with that I'm looking for. And most agents are looking for
31:14
folks who are going to build a lifetime of works and they'll continue to build
31:19
those relationships with editors and publishers as dank grow. And so those are the
31:25
things to be to know. Amy. One last question, can you talk
31:30
or tell our readers a little bit about what you or maybe other agents are
31:34
looking for right now. I don't mean people or pitches, but what kinds
31:38
of books? What kinds of books? What's difficult is every agent is difference,
31:45
right. It should have if you look them up on the agency website,
31:49
it should have their little list of what they're interested in and have represented
31:55
best. Almost always it's there. Same with manuscript wish list. Most all
32:02
of us have got some sort of information on manuscript wish list. I will
32:07
warn you that manuscript wish List, the actual website, not the one on
32:12
Twitter. The actual website can be a little bit outdated because I haven't updated
32:15
mine in like four years. Probably should do that. I'm specifically looking for
32:23
m LGBTQ forward works um um by uh you know any authors from the community.
32:31
I am looking for cozy mysteries. I am trying to kind of expand
32:37
and broaden and um you know in areas that I am familiar with a little
32:42
bit. Like I said, getting into cozy mysteries, um And I think
32:45
that's probably most what I'm looking for. Always romance, always spicy. I
32:52
am open to any spice level. Thankst is my favorite emotion. Yeah.
32:58
So if it is rooting romance story at angst cells So, if it's angst
33:06
all the way up to the end, I'm fine with that. If it's
33:07
like you know, sweet call Marky and romance, I've sold a ton of
33:09
those. Or if it is you know right up you're hot, steamy,
33:16
sexy with a line, I'm loving that too. So Amy, you're just
33:21
a font of information. Thank you so much for being on this cruise and
33:25
on this spot. We've got the writer Cons Small group retreat coming up in
33:35
July, and if you're interested in a small group setting where you can have
33:39
direct one on one feedback and mentoring and meet other people who are having the
33:46
same aspirations that you are, it's a great experience. Visit the website to
33:52
learn more about it. And of course, come Labor Day weekend September one
33:57
through fourth, that's the big conference writer Con. We've got more than sixty
34:01
presenters lined up. And I mentioned earlier in this podcast pitch Fest, which
34:07
is something new we're adding this year to give people an opportunity to not only
34:13
pitch, but pitch more effectively and pitch everyone there at once, more than
34:17
twenty people, more all the agents editors, publishers, which you know,
34:22
in a way makes more sense than doing it one at a time, although
34:27
you can do that too if you want. Every year we have connected writers
34:30
and agents, and I think we're gonna do an even better job this year,
34:37
in addition to all the teaching and other opportunities. And if you register
34:40
now you can take advantage of the early bird prices, so please visit our
34:45
websitewritercon dot com and Renee. I think you submitted a script to Screencraft recently,
34:52
didn't you? What happened there? I did? I placed in the
34:57
quarterfinals so CLOCK could graduate Latians. I mean I knew, but still thanks
35:04
for thanking that. Though I just wanted you to talk. I can get
35:09
that is a hard thing to accomplish, So way to go. Thanks all
35:15
right, everybody, until next time, keep writing and remember you cannot fail
35:21
if you're refused. To see you next time.