Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / If Everything Is AI… Why Are We Here? | With Dave Blanchard

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If Everything Is AI… Why Are We Here? | With Dave Blanchard · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

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Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
0:39
This podcast. I am Jeremy Mickle. I'm joined
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by co -host David Berner, just one of the Daves
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on the show here today. It feels like a little
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bit of a reunion of sorts. We have as our guest,
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Dave Blanchard, the second of the Daves. They
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want to make me an honorary Dave for the day.
0:59
I don't know if I can handle that much pressure
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with what the two of you bring. Dave, I've known
1:05
him for a long time. You know, we go back into
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the probably the early mid 2000s where Dave was
1:14
a teacher in one of the districts which I work
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for now as part of that cooperative. And he's
1:20
now since moved on to bigger, better things.
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And we're just super excited to have Dave with
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us here. He's gonna bring kind of a perspective
1:27
that we haven't really addressed on the show
1:30
before, I think, as it touches on, you know,
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what's taking place in higher education, as far
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as integration of technology, but also brings,
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I think, a wealth of knowledge and experience
1:42
across bridging different aspects of education
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and educational institutions. So Dave, welcome.
1:50
Why don't you give us a little bit of kind of
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that background, that origin, kind of like what
1:56
made you realize that what you're doing is what
1:59
it was supposed to be? Yeah, thank you. And I
2:03
think that one of the pieces that I always want
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to... to support and amplify is higher. It is
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not the bigger better part of education. It is
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the older, clumsier part of education, I think.
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And so I am now on record saying that publicly,
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which I'm excited for the viral clip to go off
2:24
for that. I am the Director of Online here at
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St. Claude State University, and how I got here
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was maybe a cycle of who Dave is. In K -12, I
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started off as a classroom teacher in an elementary
2:41
setting and found myself doing a lot with technology.
2:44
I found myself seeking out places to learn and
2:47
people to learn with, and found myself engaged
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at the technology conference in Minnesota, TIES.
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Found myself saying, hey, my colleague and I
2:58
that I taught with really closely, we could run
3:00
this session that we're attending that had a
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completely packed room. We should put one in
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for next year. And we never stopped. And so that
3:09
was a really cool thing. After being a classroom
3:13
teacher, I shifted into being a specialist and
3:16
then a district curriculum professional development
3:19
coordinator throughout the district for that
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school. And in higher ed, I had a really similar
3:26
piece. I was in teacher education for several
3:29
years. I got pulled into some special projects,
3:32
and then I got pulled into middle management
3:34
again. And so my wife just the other day joked
3:38
that I'm hitting my timeline and that we'll have
3:42
a career change and reset coming up pretty soon.
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And so who knows what's next for Dave? I think
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the origin story is really thinking about how
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we use learning and how we use what we know about
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learning and how we use technology in learning.
4:00
and thinking about how we make the most rich
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and engaged experiences for learners, whoever
4:09
they are, elementary students, teachers in a
4:12
district, people who want to be teachers or faculty
4:15
who are continuing to get better, use what we
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have available in our modern classroom experiences
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to help students learn. And that's a big feat
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and it happens no matter where you go within
4:34
education or any training environments. We want
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to make sure that people have realistic skill
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sets, that people have skill sets for the society
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that they will be leading, not the society that
4:48
we all thrived in because there's a difference.
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We all grew up in a time when what we had was
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what we had and we got to education because we
4:58
either liked education or we pushed back against
5:00
education and we wanted to change it. And for
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our students, whoever they are, whatever type
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of student, I think that those similar pieces
5:10
of ensuring that they're having authentic experiences,
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that they are using the tools that they'll be
5:15
expected to use, and in the next steps, those
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are all important pieces. So it sounds to me
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like what you're saying is like the goals are
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the same Regardless of you know, what level of
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educational institution you're working in it's
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just your audiences are different. Yeah Yeah,
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is there anything you know with that that you
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really really love about? The higher ed setting
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or where I'm still gonna call it higher ed. I
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don't know. Yeah, it's still higher Or what's
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also, you know, maybe along with that, what's
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something maybe you miss about not being in,
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you know, like the K -12 realm? Yeah, so when
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I was direct in line as a faculty member, the
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thing that I loved was it was like the professional
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development. that like Tech Tosa's run except
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all of the teachers wanted to be there because
6:10
they were pre -licensed teachers or they were
6:12
master students coming back. So it was like the
6:15
best professional development day every single
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day because we had our things that we were working
6:19
on and the alignment and we were going to demonstrate
6:22
it and you were going to go do stuff on your
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own you were going to come back and we were going
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to talk about it. And so from a teacher and faculty
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perspective both at the undergrad and graduate
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level that was something that I was always really
6:32
excited about and I think that that kind of rings
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in like I've always enjoyed working with adults
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in education. The thing that I miss is, and this
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has happened both times in K -12 and in higher
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ed, the farther I'm away from students, like
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a lot of people are like, oh, I've got a bigger
6:51
ripple. That's true, but also like you don't
6:54
get to see anything and you don't get to help
6:56
in that boots on the ground way of really seeing
7:01
what grassroots learning looks like. higher ed
7:05
did allow me to be really critical about teaching
7:10
philosophy. And as part of being in higher ed,
7:14
I had maybe like a background goal which turned
7:18
into a requirement to go get my doctorate. And
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within that, I did a lot of work around teaching
7:26
philosophies that go above and beyond what I
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think like we all do through teacher prep and
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even through master's programs and really thinking
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about like being a constructivist and co -constructing
7:38
learning with whoever's learning and flattening
7:42
the power dynamics of like I am a teacher I stand
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at the podium to no no no you help facilitate
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learning you are a teacher that is something
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to be incredibly proud of and that title doesn't
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necessarily need to be emphasized with the design
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of a classroom or the design of how we structure
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learning. So one of the things in higher ed that
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I've been supporting is like the removal of physical
8:10
power structures as it comes to our classroom
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design. So in our training spaces, I've stripped
8:16
out podiums and I have like a wheelie podium,
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which is really more like a storage cabinet that
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we have a podium style sign on the back of and
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it's always in the corner because we don't only
8:27
use it when we have a speaker that needs it or
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when we have a really important reason to have
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that visual source of power and then in a lot
8:36
of our teaching spaces that we're updating shifting
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away from like here's an instructor station where
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there's a computer and all the things are always
8:45
found here. to really embracing like how do we
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do teleconference hardware and software that
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also allows our faculty to be anywhere in the
8:54
room with their device, whatever that might be.
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And so we've switched a lot over to Zoom Rooms
9:00
by Polly and being able to shift into those areas
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thinking about where do our lead learners, our
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faculty, or our teachers need to be in a classroom
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to be most effective and where are they most
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comfortable. and do those two things always match?
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No, they don't. But how can we make spaces that
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are fitting students also? Do you think some
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of that maybe comes from, and I don't know, maybe
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I'm stretching this a little bit too, but you
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know, like your background as an elementary teacher,
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you know, you're not up in front of you know,
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you're getting the kids doing and, you know,
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some of that hands -on -y type learning, which,
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you know, I get you trying to recreate in that
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virtual space, but, you know, is that where that
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comes from? Or maybe it comes from some research
9:50
in other... And so I've had really good conversations
9:54
around that, and I'm privileged to have secondary
9:59
educators, both in higher ed and in K -12, be
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like, no, no, no, this does work better. we don't
10:06
need these podiums to demand trust and authority
10:10
in a classroom. And that there's certain logistic
10:14
perspectives where it needs to make sense because
10:16
that's the on camera spot or the mic works best
10:19
there or whatnot. But as it comes to thinking
10:23
about like power structures within learning,
10:26
setting those aside, and maybe that is a little
10:29
bit more learner choice. and authentic experiences
10:34
and things that happen organically in an elementary
10:37
setting, but are also very true within like adult
10:40
learning science. And Dave, as you've kind of
10:46
worked with others both at both levels and just
10:50
thinking about the professional learning networks
10:52
that you've been a part of, do you feel like
10:57
that has helped foster new thoughts for you or
11:01
just like in terms of learning things to improve
11:05
from other people? How has professional learning
11:08
networks impacted some of the work that you've
11:10
done at either level? Yeah, so I think that professional
11:16
learning networks have ended up being something
11:19
that I'm really passionate about. My dissertation
11:21
is completely on that because it became something
11:23
that I was so passionate about. And as we take
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a look at these networks of individuals, sometimes
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when we're in rural districts, or when we are
11:32
thinking about education in a way that isn't
11:34
like the norm, or we're in like a leadership
11:37
or semi leadership position, without having a
11:40
network of people who are thinking in a similar
11:43
vein or in a similar perspective, like a role
11:46
design, we end up being little silos and sitting
11:50
on islands of one. and not being able to think
11:54
critically with others, not being able to collaborate.
11:57
And so a lot of work that I do is through networks
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now. Here in Minnesota State, so St. Claude State
12:05
is part of Minnesota State, the larger state
12:07
system in higher ed here in Minnesota. I work
12:11
with the Network for Educational Developers,
12:13
and that is a system -wide team of more than
12:18
60 people and more than I don't know, like 300
12:22
individuals at the conferences that are held
12:25
that come together around how is it that we handle
12:29
different topics that come up? How are we helping
12:31
training and development around different things?
12:34
And how do we help faculty learn about learning?
12:38
Because often faculty learn about their discipline,
12:41
but not teaching and learning. And then I...
12:46
I still have really, really deep roots in K -12
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and I'm never going to let them go. So between
12:51
Minnesota Learning Commons and then also the
12:54
Minnesota Generative AI Alliance, those are also
12:58
PLNs. Those are opportunities to connect with
13:01
others. And really those two groups, I think,
13:04
help bring different perspectives that sometimes
13:09
conflict so that you can sharpen skills, you
13:12
can sharpen mindsets, you can really critically
13:14
think through your perspective and help others
13:17
think through theirs so that after a conversation
13:21
is done it's not just oh I won that fight but
13:25
it really is oh wow I'm thinking differently
13:28
about this because of shared knowledge and shared
13:31
experiences and shared resources and I have these
13:35
people who I can go to that have some sort of
13:40
affinity to something that I'm interested in
13:42
also. super important part of my job. I don't
13:46
know. There's only a handful of director of online
13:48
at a Minskew Institution and we all do completely
13:52
different jobs with overlapping responsibilities.
13:56
We're all called different things. We are on
13:59
different bargaining units. We're on different
14:00
calendars. And so being able to get together
14:03
and try and find like positions is a really important
14:07
part. Yeah, and one of the things that so for
14:10
us like art in the southwest region our region
14:13
is extremely spread out and so we have And we'll
14:16
go and visit schools and things and but we have
14:19
to drive quite a ways to do that And so like
14:22
one of the things we have is our regional tech
14:24
integration Group that meets once a month just
14:28
we have to do it virtually just because of the
14:30
fact that we're so spread out but yeah, it can
14:33
it can definitely if you're just kind of at your
14:37
school and you're the one tech integration person,
14:41
there I think is a lot of opportunity there where
14:43
you'll feel isolated if you don't have opportunities
14:48
to connect. So can you talk a little bit about
14:52
maybe some solutions to that? Like opportunities
14:58
that folks, if they are feeling, maybe they're
15:00
listening to this podcast and they're like, yeah,
15:01
I'm the only... Person within the net 200 miles
15:04
is the tech integration person. It doesn't have
15:06
to be tech integration But yeah, is there other
15:08
solutions that you come across or can offer?
15:12
Yeah, so leaning on Some different forms of social
15:17
media can be a great way to find others and to
15:21
find networks. And if social media isn't necessarily
15:25
something that you align with super well, thinking
15:27
about professional organizations. So like if
15:29
you're a social studies educator, they have a
15:32
really thriving network just for social studies.
15:35
And most disciplines like math and science also
15:38
have them. Where in K -12 education, like there's
15:42
these direct affinity groups that are statewide
15:44
non - that also participate at a national level.
15:49
And I think connecting with those individuals,
15:52
my dissertation started off right before, it
15:57
started off when Twitter was Twitter. And then
16:00
there was a mass exodus of Twitter after several
16:03
events. And I had to do a pretty significant
16:06
pivot because social media and the use of social
16:09
media for PLNs completely changed. due to an
16:14
acquisition and people being burned out from
16:17
pandemic related Facebook groups. And so I want
16:21
to always be mindful that when we do use social
16:23
media for finding networks of individuals, like
16:28
we go and try to find like hashtags or search
16:31
threads or chats that are hosted by an organization
16:35
that we have affinity to, or using a social media
16:39
most education is not super friendly with, like
16:42
jumping over to LinkedIn, where there are really
16:46
quality groups and conversations. They're not
16:49
always as easy to find as they were on Twitter,
16:51
but they still exist and they're still there.
16:55
The other piece that I would throw out that I
16:58
would have never been comfortable with as a K
17:02
-12 educator is like, if you are reading somebody's
17:06
work, doesn't matter if it's a blog post on Educause
17:10
or ASCD or if it's research or if it's a blog
17:15
post on Yale's website, like reaching out to
17:18
the author in an email and saying like, hey,
17:21
I appreciated this thing that you said, can you
17:25
tell me more? Or do you have any places to go?
17:29
As a doc student, I realized that was such an
17:33
incredible um force to be able to leverage and
17:38
that most people that are putting content out
17:40
in that way get giddy when they get an email
17:43
like that because they're usually under recognized
17:46
even if they're published um and I think about
17:49
an author who wrote a technology framework an
17:53
education technology framework piece and I reached
17:55
out to him on linkedin I was just like hey I
17:57
just want to you know I really appreciate your
17:58
perspectives here and like instantly followed
18:01
me back, instantly having conversations, still
18:03
having ongoing conversations. And that mentality
18:07
of like, Oh, I can form a network with people
18:11
by literally like, I don't know, back in the
18:13
day, we would have called them on the phone,
18:15
you know, like by emailing them, that is this
18:17
powerful opportunity also. And something that's
18:20
scary that first time you do it, but it doesn't
18:22
need to be. Yeah. And it sounds like a lot of
18:25
stuff that you brought up is great because there's
18:27
there's there is so many opportunities because
18:30
of the online connectedness where you can because
18:33
I've had the same experience on on LinkedIn and
18:35
stuff where um like and I've told this to Jeremy
18:37
where we reach out to someone who we admire their
18:40
work and we want to have them on the podcast
18:42
and stuff and it's always been surprising how
18:45
willing they are to do that because you know
18:47
from our our uh thinking I think we're like oh
18:49
that person's like really well known they're
18:51
gonna be too busy but I think we've been surprised
18:54
every time where they're willing to collaborate
18:56
with us on being on the podcast and stuff like
18:59
that. So that's always been really encouraging.
19:04
But if you think about this from just a personal
19:07
side of things, thinking about those connections,
19:12
what professional connections have most shaped
19:14
how you lead today and why? If you want to mention
19:18
specific people and what it was or what have
19:22
been the most meaningful for you. the most meaningful
19:29
connections have been those who have standed
19:33
a long lasting piece. And so I have a pocket
19:38
of individuals who I've collaborated with for
19:43
like seven years and we've all changed jobs and
19:47
some of us have had kids graduate where the others
19:50
have had kids for the first time and that piece
19:56
where we started as professional individuals
20:01
who all did similar work and we grew a personal
20:04
connection, I think was the biggest piece. And
20:08
so, like my gut core group when I'm bouncing
20:12
around to people, there's a foursome where it's
20:17
me and Jeff, Sean and Lana. And if anybody needs
20:21
Jeff, Sean, and Lana, they're easy to find. You
20:23
can just jump on my LinkedIn and they're all
20:25
right there. And then I look in my higher ed
20:28
side and I think about Karen and Kristen as individuals
20:33
who just continue to perpetuate ideas and connections.
20:39
And I can definitely share some extra names and
20:41
handles and things like that. But those individuals
20:45
from two widely different perspectives. have
20:49
been groups of people that continue to always
20:54
interface. And I look at that with like Jeremy
20:56
right here, someone who I've worked with for
20:58
years and years and years. And when we're jiving,
21:02
we're jiving, and when we're not, we're on good
21:04
terms. And it's just that piece of how these
21:07
networks form of like, where's the synergy in
21:09
the moment? And where's the piece where we've
21:12
got, you know, like ongoing other pieces also
21:16
and I think that there's such great opportunity
21:19
to have really professional motivations and goals
21:26
and it also turn into like the people that you
21:30
send holiday cards to without realizing because
21:33
they just start to mean something to you on a
21:35
personal side and then you ask for a letter of
21:39
recommendation or whatnot and you realize wow
21:41
I've got these people that are here And I didn't
21:46
know that I had them. The other piece in that
21:49
personal network thing that I never understood
21:52
coming into higher ed was like, how do all my
21:55
peer faculty know these people across the country
21:58
and in different levels and organizations and
22:02
things? It's because people move, but connections
22:04
don't need to stop. And so like I had a really
22:08
close colleague move to Moorhead. I had a really
22:12
important dean move to Chicago, and I'm still
22:16
in communication with them each on a monthly
22:17
basis, if not on a weekly basis. And I had someone
22:21
who applied for a job from Minnesota at our institution
22:26
move to California for an even better job after
22:29
they weren't like the fit that needed to be.
22:32
And I think about like how that also is how a
22:35
network grows of like having those connections
22:37
and keeping in touch with people maybe like after
22:40
college after high school, like keeping in touch
22:43
with them is such an important piece because
22:47
so frequently like our work friends stop when
22:53
we no longer work with them because work was
22:56
the only thing that brought them together and
22:58
if you have more than that like keep keep those
23:01
connections stoked because you never know when
23:04
like a topic like artificial intelligence and
23:07
education is going to open up like your phone
23:11
ringing from Chicago because they're having like
23:14
this crisis and they just think your perspective
23:16
would be helpful. And those are really neat opportunities.
23:20
I think a couple things here. First, you know,
23:23
I'm going to use this moment, because I think
23:25
you kind of let into it a little bit to make
23:27
a major announcement. And it's coming from the
23:31
fact that I've known you, Dave, for a long time,
23:33
you know, through various different roles that
23:37
we have both had, but the connection has always
23:39
stayed there. And so the major announcement is
23:42
in August of 2026 and more in Minnesota, August
23:47
4th to be particular, Dave is going to be our
23:50
keynote speaker at our Lake ECMEC conference.
23:53
And I just. I'm really excited to have you there.
23:56
I was looking through old Twitter photos for
24:00
another reason not too long ago, and I came across
24:04
several of us enjoying post -conference collaborations,
24:11
fellowship, using random tags like TOES18 and
24:18
things like that. You're going to give people
24:20
too much of a breadcrumb. I'm going to. And so
24:25
I just think it's great now to be able to leverage
24:29
those connections through those networks. And
24:33
I think I'm really excited. Well, I know I'm
24:34
really excited to have you come and be a part
24:36
of that day. So that was the first thing. And
24:39
then the other thing here that... This is weird
24:43
because this has now happened a couple of times
24:45
to David and I. We've gone over 20 minutes into
24:49
an episode before AI really became a conversation
24:52
point, which is, I mean, it was it was generally
24:57
glanced off of, but it wasn't really brought
24:59
up until like just about now, too, which is maybe
25:03
a good pivot point here, because I want to like
25:06
focus on AI here for just a moment or two. And
25:11
here I read this statement, AI is moving faster
25:13
than institutional change. And so where do you
25:18
see AI actually moving the needle right now when
25:22
it comes to learning design? And if you want
25:25
to focus on higher ed, that's great. If you want
25:27
to take a broader approach to that too, that's
25:30
fine. Yeah, so I think I'm going to take a broader
25:32
approach because when it comes down to it learning
25:34
design in higher ed and in k -12 is not that
25:36
different. We've got different contractual things
25:39
with some things, but it's about how do we design
25:43
a huge amount of information that's sometimes
25:47
overwhelming into something that people can grasp,
25:51
internalize, and apply. And that's what it is
25:54
about regardless. So artificial Intelligence
25:57
is absolutely moving faster than institutional
25:59
change anywhere. K -12 is doing it better, faster,
26:02
and stronger because they have always done things
26:06
better, faster, and stronger except for scholarly
26:08
research. And that is another hot take that I'm
26:11
going to say and be okay saying. Higher Ed moves
26:14
slower and is more driven in faculty autonomy
26:19
as subject matter experts. And artificial intelligence
26:22
is scary, I think, in both of those areas. But
26:24
when we take a look about it from a learning
26:27
perspective, AI has incredible learning opportunities
26:31
when we design use cases around it where there's
26:36
intentionality. If we're going to take generic
26:41
assignment prompts that we could find online
26:44
anyways. And then we say, well, students can
26:47
do them using AI. Students could go on Chegg
26:50
or whatever website they had spark notes before,
26:53
and they could find the same papers. AI is just
26:55
writing them now. There's no difference from
26:57
an academic integrity piece, and students who
27:00
are doing it are doing it because they don't
27:01
value the learning. As we take a look at some
27:04
intentional uses around AI, we can build it into
27:06
the learning process of maybe the initial feedback
27:09
of something. or having it help with a critical
27:13
perspective review of something, or even something
27:17
as trivial as flashcards, study prompts. making
27:23
a quiz, making a jingle to help a student remember
27:29
something, and building in these more trivial
27:32
skills around how to use artificial intelligence
27:34
from a learner perspective. Both Microsoft and
27:37
Google, which are the two bigger areas when it
27:40
comes to AI and education, have a learning suite
27:44
and a teaching suite of tools where there's great
27:47
opportunities to leverage their models. in designing
27:51
learning materials both from a learner perspective
27:53
or a teaching perspective and I think those are
27:55
great but what sometimes it does is it brings
27:59
questions around like copyright or the intellectual
28:04
property of like whose is this it also introduces
28:07
a really important thing where we need to be
28:10
intentional and mindful around AI, AI, AI process.
28:16
If someone is producing it with AI and someone
28:18
is completing it with AI and then the feedback
28:20
is produced by AI, like why is anyone here? And
28:24
so being intentional around how we use it, both
28:26
from the employee in the room and the learner
28:29
in the room perspective is such an important
28:32
thing. And I know we've got a note for later
28:37
about AI policy or AI practice. And I'm just
28:42
going to pull that up to this topic right here.
28:44
I think in both. K -12 education, public education,
28:48
and higher ed, we have so many policies that
28:53
are about the internet, that are about data security,
28:57
that are about governance of information, that
29:00
introducing a whole suite of AI policy isn't
29:04
necessarily where we need to go. Introducing
29:06
maybe a policy and an alignment table around
29:10
AI use and intentional ethical and moral use
29:13
of technology, and then a table of policies that
29:17
you need to keep in mind that you might not realize
29:19
AI touches is, I think, a really good practice.
29:25
When we come into the practice side of AI use,
29:28
we're able to put in a lot of procedural documents
29:30
and a lot of practice underneath a policy. in
29:34
both higher ed and K -12 where we're setting
29:36
the tone and we're providing examples and resources.
29:40
And I think that that's one of the most critical
29:42
things that we can do because policy work should
29:46
long be like three to five year sprints. We shouldn't
29:49
need to change it all the time, but we know AI
29:51
is changing much faster than that. And the use
29:54
of AI is changing much faster than that. So thinking
29:57
about our practices, our procedures and our supporting
30:00
documents in like policy language is such an
30:04
important perspective as we move forward. Yeah
30:11
and so if you think about this here and you know
30:14
whether you know what are those appropriate use
30:16
or best use you know do you think that they're
30:20
like to me I think about it like if you're going
30:23
to be integrating AI into assisting you with
30:27
whatever it happens to be whether the designing
30:28
lesson or you know, being a tutor to your learning
30:31
or assisting you with feedback, does it, is there
30:34
a role? I mean, to me, it's really no different
30:36
than what good teaching would look like otherwise.
30:39
Except now you're just adding that, that person
30:43
who's become kind of a collaborator, not person,
30:46
this tool that's becoming a collaborator and
30:49
can be used to things to help me get to think
30:52
about where maybe I don't have to think of UDL
30:55
as an afterthought. you know, maybe it just becomes
30:58
part of what I do anyway. And maybe, you know,
31:02
taking that learner centered approach doesn't
31:05
have to be an afterthought to what as a teacher
31:07
I need to do, but maybe putting the student up
31:10
ahead and maybe my collaborator can can help
31:14
me do that more effectively. Yeah, I think what
31:17
you're really bringing forward is a perspective
31:20
of creating like an agent or a gem or whatever
31:23
Anthropic is going to call it. I think they call
31:25
them agents also and saying here's some conditions
31:28
I want in a thought partner and Karen Qualie
31:31
actually does an incredible job at this where
31:33
we will take a look and say like a change management
31:38
model that I personally stick to is a lipid -noster
31:40
model and it helps us identify like if you communicate
31:44
these elements it'll be successful, but if you're
31:47
missing any one of those elements, here's how
31:49
it's going to fail. And so I've built in on my
31:53
own personal chat GPT piece that I use for strategic
31:56
visioning of all sorts of work that I do. I have
32:00
a little chat where all it does is it helps me
32:03
think through the lip and nostril model, so that
32:06
when I'm thinking about change management, it's
32:08
helping me identify have I communicated all of
32:11
the things in a way that makes sense for the
32:13
audience that I've already said. and am I providing
32:16
the resources? And so that takes about an hour
32:19
of time off of my job of even just reviewing
32:24
and saying like, did I do all these things? Because
32:27
I don't say did it and say yes or no. I say did
32:30
it do this and provide evidence real quick. And
32:33
so I wrote the stuff or I've articulated the
32:36
stuff in groups with or without AI. I know what's
32:39
there and now I'm having it provide that little
32:42
critical analysis. And I'm looking at the feedback
32:45
it provides me to support the critical analysis.
32:48
And then I'm making that final call judgment
32:50
of, do I feel comfortable moving forward? I think
32:53
that in lesson design, absolutely the same thing.
32:56
If we don't bring in UDL, or if we want to bring
32:58
in something from our rigor model, or if we want
33:01
to bring in Marzano or Danielson taxonomies,
33:03
whatever they may be that we're working on at
33:05
a district level, and say, is this helping in
33:09
this fashion? and providing the correct documents
33:13
so that AI is able to assist in providing that
33:17
feedback. Such a meaningful way to put and leverage
33:21
in this tool. Yeah, what about this from this
33:27
perspective here too? Do you think there's an
33:30
AI practice around today that you think will
33:33
feel obvious in five, say five years from now
33:37
that you know, maybe today still feels a little
33:40
controversial. Yeah, I think drafting emails
33:49
and drafting communication feels really controversial.
33:53
And I think that people will see that having
33:59
a draft of an email created by an agent is probably
34:04
less controversial than it needs to be. I will
34:12
stand up today and say there are many communications
34:16
that I draft in partnership with my agent because
34:22
I want it to come across in a tone that's going
34:24
to be well received without losing the integrity
34:28
of content that I might be really blunt about.
34:32
and so like I have this blunt list of I need
34:35
to communicate these things and it helps me bring
34:37
it into a more human -centered, softened tone
34:39
for a specific audience, keeping in mind certain
34:42
risk factors that I have already identified because
34:45
I know someone is going to take part with this
34:48
or someone's going to be critical of that and
34:49
so I have that built in. Do I at the bottom of
34:53
every email say this is drafted in partnership?
34:55
No, because I revise it. to the world's end afterwards,
35:00
and everything that I put in and everything that
35:02
I take out of it, I've got human touch on after,
35:06
but it is something that I think is still maybe
35:09
considered as a controversial piece. The other
35:12
has to do with publishing, and I'm okay with
35:15
this being controversial, and I don't know how
35:16
it's gonna wiggle at the end, but. when you are
35:21
submitting as an academic right now into a book,
35:24
into an editorial, into scholarly publication,
35:28
there's some really bold restrictions around
35:32
AI use. And as someone who has published this
35:37
much but has reviewed a decent amount, I can
35:40
tell you people aren't sticking to it. And people
35:43
aren't sticking to it because it's a part of
35:45
the process of research now. It's a part of the
35:48
process of academic learning and I think that
35:53
people are not hiding it and they're just allowing
35:57
it to be there. And so I'm not sure what the
36:00
take is going to be in three to five years around
36:02
like AI and scholarly research because I only
36:06
see it being integrated deeper and deeper into
36:08
the tools that we use. And as you look at where
36:14
EdTech is at right now and maybe just the access
36:19
or thinking about the barriers that get in the
36:22
way of education for some. What would you say
36:26
is where is EdTech falling short in making sure
36:30
there aren't any barriers for people to access
36:33
tools or what do you think about that? Yeah,
36:38
so I think that Ken Shelton spoke about equity
36:41
for years, and that's still a very important
36:44
topic here in Minnesota. We've got rural areas
36:47
where there are infrastructure gaps and that
36:51
Just grabbing a hotspot is not the solution to
36:55
that. And so I think from an infrastructure piece,
36:58
there are pieces that EdTech really needs to
37:00
step up from even like EdTech companies instead
37:05
of lobbying for more data, maybe lobbying for
37:10
more equitable allocation of resources so that
37:14
there can be infrastructure. there's that element
37:18
of it, but then we also have removing barriers
37:20
and then looking at the bias that EdTech brings
37:22
in. And I think that those are two really important
37:25
pieces of the same picture where the barriers
37:29
that we have and the bias that EdTech and published
37:33
curriculum bring are things that as educators
37:38
we need to account for and level with. because
37:42
not every student is going to have access, not
37:44
every student is going to be represented in the
37:46
materials, and also as we're getting interactions
37:50
with EdTech that's now enhanced with AI, there
37:55
are going to be a set of biases that are in all
37:59
of the materials that are there and automatically
38:01
generated. I was at a symposium in Winona last
38:05
summer talking through like implementation reflections
38:11
with AI and education doing this facilitated
38:14
evaluation discussion. And one of the curriculum
38:17
development people, not from Winona, but that's
38:20
where it was at, had pulled up a K -12 learning
38:24
platform from one of the key publishers and said,
38:28
for free, at our current base contract, this
38:35
level of AI is now turned on by default and we
38:37
can't turn it off. And it had to do around creating
38:40
custom learning materials. And then we can pay,
38:44
and there's more and more levels in creating
38:46
these custom materials. And I was like, oh, that's
38:48
really interesting. He was like, here's my issue.
38:52
And it had to do with the types of questions
38:55
that were being produced, being some of those
38:57
stereotypical questions that going through school,
38:59
we all learned like you can't. create things
39:02
that are so specific to geographic experiences
39:06
or experiences that are socioeconomical or culturally
39:09
driven. And those were some of the things that
39:11
it was pulling in. And as EdTech changes the
39:17
way they do things and correct for biases, I
39:21
think that we'll also have an overcorrection.
39:23
And it'll still be important to have human eyes
39:26
on everything that we're putting in front of
39:28
our learners, which is why we're here. I think
39:32
that's one of the most important things like
39:34
AI can't take the jobs of dedicated people in
39:38
education who see the value of human interaction.
39:43
Yeah, it's interesting that what you brought
39:44
up too about the like the rural area because
39:47
I just thinking back to like when COVID was happening,
39:51
right? There was like we had everybody moved
39:56
to Some form of online learning right and even
40:00
in like even when you're in person you're in
40:02
Google You're in a learning management system
40:04
of some kind and you're accessing work that way
40:07
And then what we found out really quick obviously
40:09
was oh we we have to actually get internet access
40:13
to a bunch of kids Now and so then we had like
40:16
buses dropping off hot spots and things like
40:19
that You know like that was it became very apparent
40:21
that all of a sudden. This was a massive need
40:24
that we weren't prepared for. The response was
40:27
actually super impressive because it was we were
40:29
able to at least get that out to them. But I
40:32
think it was more the realization that like,
40:35
oh, we're in trouble a bit here. We got to figure
40:37
this out. Right. Yeah. So and then I could you
40:42
just touch to briefly on how how universal design
40:46
for learning is. You kind of did a little bit,
40:49
I think, but just from that perspective of designing
40:52
lessons and accommodate for different different
40:55
learning styles and things like that. And feel
40:58
free to tie in AI too and how that connects.
41:02
But what about the importance of universal design
41:05
for learning for accessibility and all sorts
41:09
of different things that students face? Yeah,
41:13
absolutely. So Universal Design for Learning
41:15
really founds itself or is founded in thinking
41:19
about multiple means of engagement, multiple
41:21
means of representation, and multiple means of
41:24
action and expression. And as we think about
41:27
where accessibility fits into UDL, it's a blanket
41:31
where wherever we're doing UDL work, we're also
41:34
creating more accessible and inclusive experiences.
41:38
And so that's an important element to acknowledge.
41:41
As we think through moving forward in using artificial
41:47
intelligence to ideate what UDL means to any
41:51
type of lesson, we can think about the multiple
41:54
means of engagement being a really important
41:56
one, brainstorming what are different ways to
42:01
still get to the same student learning outcome
42:03
or standard benchmark that we have, and being
42:06
open to thinking about How do we interact with
42:10
learning from a behavioral mindset, from an attitude
42:13
mindset, or from a physiolocomotor mindset, or
42:17
I guess ability set? And how do we interact with
42:20
knowledge to be able to interpret it and apply
42:24
it? So coming up and like literally just brainstorming
42:27
with AI, like what are different ways that I
42:30
can do this? What are different ways that students
42:33
could demonstrate this? Skill set would be a
42:37
great way for us to look at multiple means of
42:39
representation because representation is really
42:42
how do students demonstrate that they've learned
42:44
something. And then as we think through how accessibility
42:50
folds onto all of these, as we have new formatting
42:55
come into play that we're not familiar with or
42:57
we have new images that we're needing to bring
43:00
into our lessons, using artificial intelligence
43:03
to help review for the WCAG 2 .1 AA standards,
43:08
like is this accessible or how can I make this
43:10
more accessible in relation to the WCAG 2 .1
43:14
AA standards is a great like little prompt. Or
43:18
helping identify inclusive alt text for an image
43:22
and then reading what it returns to you in that
43:25
query and saying, okay, so now how am I using
43:27
this image? And here's a piece of inclusive alt
43:30
text. How do I frame this in a similar way? When
43:35
it gets down to applying UDL, and accessibility
43:39
or digital accessibility together. It really
43:41
is about making sure that every learner, regardless
43:44
of their abilities or perspectives or learning
43:46
preferences, has opportunity to engage with the
43:51
content that we're sharing, the content that
43:52
we're assessing them on, and also that our assessments
43:56
are well articulated to what we're actually teaching.
43:59
And so it's this great kind of 360 around is
44:04
what I'm doing, what I'm expecting. And do learners
44:08
have some choice that all provide equitable experiences?
44:13
You know, Dave, that's great. And I think that
44:15
definitely has to be that space for the UDL.
44:19
But, you know, as you think of it, from your
44:22
perspective, what's harder right now? Is it harder
44:25
changing systems or changing mindsets? Yeah,
44:29
I think that's a great piece for us to think
44:31
through. in the context of both artificial intelligence
44:35
and digital accessibility, which is a regulation
44:37
that we're all faced with, most institutions,
44:42
regardless of what type, haven't spent enough
44:45
time talking about either of them for us to really
44:50
expect a system to change or a mindset to change
44:53
overnight. And so I think that as we think through
44:57
changing a system, changing a system requires
45:00
shared engagement across like bargaining units
45:02
and unions and employee representation, the admin
45:05
and the classroom teacher, and down to like the
45:08
students, which I think a lot of org changes
45:11
forget to include around how does this need to
45:15
work and what is valued by this organization.
45:21
And we have maybe a chicken and an egg piece
45:24
because until the system is changed, mindsets
45:28
aren't required to move. In both K -12 education
45:34
and higher education, I think we've prided ourselves
45:37
on earning our degrees and the experiences and
45:40
years served in our institutions or in our professions.
45:44
And so like the next trendy thing is just going
45:47
to be this too shall pass. Like I think that
45:51
every phrase like that has been used for both
45:55
digital accessibility and AI. And it's not true,
45:59
like these are things that are here and are expectations
46:03
that will be long -term pieces. And so changing
46:06
the mindset, I think really also helps or is
46:10
required for us to help individuals think about
46:13
why we're in this profession. Why is it that
46:16
we work in public ed? Why is it that we are serving
46:19
all students who come to us? Why is it that we're
46:22
teaching in general at all? Is it an affinity
46:25
for the subject? Is it an affinity for helping
46:28
people learn is it, this helped me get through
46:31
service loans. Identifying it helps us at least
46:35
identify like that philosophy alignment and with
46:38
that can come a mindset change. I was helping
46:42
a group of faculty just the other week think
46:45
broadly around why digital accessibility is important,
46:49
not just a regulation. And I said, you have so
46:54
much knowledge. and expertise around your discipline
46:58
that will never be accessed by those who can't
47:02
learn exactly like you did. And you just said
47:08
you want to share it with the public and this
47:10
helps us share it with everyone. And that really
47:14
appealing to like those core pieces of why we
47:18
do our jobs and why we chose this profession
47:21
I think ends up being an important element of
47:23
changing mindsets. And then when we have a couple
47:26
more mindsets, especially bold mindsets change,
47:29
we can come back to the changing systems piece
47:31
and kind of continue to have both of them grow.
47:35
Here at my home institution, we have new administrative
47:40
leadership. And so like we are going to be doing
47:42
a significant systems change. And the mindsets
47:45
will influence that. But at the end of the day,
47:48
our senior lead is going to say this is what
47:52
we need to be when we're done. And everyone will
47:56
need to be supporting that set of goals. Very
47:59
similar to strategic planning and K -12 education.
48:01
If it's not supporting these essential goals,
48:05
we're not prioritizing it. And I think that's
48:08
an important part. I can totally see that how
48:13
it kind of has to be a weaving of some mindset
48:17
shift. make a change, mindset shift, make a change.
48:20
And it kind of has to, you bring the different
48:22
players to the table, you honor and you value
48:25
the experiences and the perspectives of others.
48:28
But at the end of the day, like you said, you
48:31
know, as an institution, you have to move a direction
48:34
and the people have to kind of come with you
48:37
when you do that. So David, this has been fantastic.
48:42
And I know we kind of end each of our episodes
48:46
with a little bit of lightning round, you know,
48:50
where we are going to ask you some questions
48:52
about random things. um you know maybe related
48:56
to what you do maybe just some off the wall kind
48:58
of things um and feel free to respond to them
49:01
you know with one word with one sentence or you
49:05
know a paragraph or however long you need to
49:07
go to explain it or or just leave it hanging
49:10
and leave people wondering you know that's that's
49:12
totally fine too um so we're going to kick off
49:15
our lightning round here and i and i think i'll
49:17
I'll do the first one and then David you can
49:19
take the next one here if that's alright. So
49:22
director of online learning here at Saint Cloud
49:24
State is online learning a revolution or is it
49:29
an evolution evolution? It's been around for
49:32
a long time. We're only getting better. What
49:37
worries you? Not in a panicky way, but in a we
49:40
should pay attention to this way. Yeah, critical
49:43
thinking and. local autonomy of curriculum. What's
49:50
a conversation about EdTech injustice that we're
49:53
still not having, but we should be? Who are missing
49:59
voices? Why are they missing? And we already
50:02
know that. So why are they really missing? OK,
50:08
and what is your leadership superpower? This
50:12
one came to me from a previous boss. Twice two
50:17
different bosses and it was you can see All of
50:20
the puzzle pieces individually and the whole
50:22
puzzle at once and I don't know how you do it
50:25
You see the forest and the trees and and both
50:28
of them both of them related it in the exact
50:31
same way In very similar conversations and they
50:34
were at two different institutions. So that was
50:35
neat You know thinking back to some of your dissertation
50:39
work, you know, what's one PLN habit you think
50:42
everyone should steal? Saying hi All right, the
50:50
next one is a this or that rapid fire Which I'm
50:53
actually pretty pumped that Jeremy added because
50:55
I've seen these with like sports stuff before
50:57
So this is a pretty cool, but you can only choose
51:00
one Jeremy do I get to do all these? Yeah, sure
51:04
go for it. Awesome. Okay, so so here we go So
51:09
you have to choose one this or that AI policy
51:12
or AI practice? I practice Innovation or sustainability?
51:18
Sustainability. Designed for all or designed
51:21
for most? Designed for most. Experimentation
51:26
or evidenced? Experimentation. Scalability or
51:32
personalization? Scalability. Okay and then this
51:39
last one is on conferences. So, hallway conversations
51:44
or keynote sessions? After -hours fellowship.
51:48
Hallway conversations. We'll add that one in
51:51
there. But the after -hours one in there. You
51:54
just couldn't see it. It was... Yeah, yeah. No,
51:57
hallway conversations because I don't know how
52:00
much after -hours I will be there for, like,
52:02
ACMEK, but hallway conversations. Well, Dave,
52:06
you know, absolutely fantastic to have you here.
52:08
We just got one more of the lightning rounds.
52:11
And that is this, and maybe this is just a little
52:14
bit of me trying to plan ahead. What's the Dave
52:17
Blanchard keynote or presentation walk up song?
52:21
What should be on stage as you come across to
52:24
that, in front of that audience? I have no clue.
52:28
I love that question. And I need to think about
52:31
it, but I'm also someone who's like, I'm very...
52:36
big into music and big into like the EDM and
52:40
rave scene. And so I think that it's going to
52:43
be loud and high energy and probably something
52:46
by John Summit. All right. Yeah. Finally, before
52:51
we do let you go here, Dave, you know, we know
52:54
that you have the the Lake ECMAC conference coming
52:57
up in August. But is there anything that you
52:59
want to share? We try to give the stage over
53:02
to our guests here, you know, like contact information
53:05
or do you have an event or a project that you're
53:08
working on that's coming up that you that you
53:10
would like to promote? You know, now's now's
53:12
your space. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Contact
53:16
information, I think the easiest way to get a
53:18
hold of me in the most stable ways is jumping
53:22
over to LinkedIn and searching Dave Blanchard,
53:24
Davidson Blanchard, and there's enough of a cookie
53:27
trail, cookie crumb trail to find me through
53:30
there. And I reply to almost any of the messages
53:33
that don't seem like cold calls. The other piece
53:36
that I want to share is part of a really cool
53:40
collaborative and now non -profit called Mingaya
53:43
or AI4MN. They're synonymous, but we host annual
53:48
summits and also ongoing conversations that happen
53:53
at least once a month on Fridays that bring human
53:57
-centered elements to artificial intelligence
54:00
and learning in an AI -informed era. And so I
54:03
think that anyone wanting to continue the conversation,
54:07
as well as instantly grow their PLN, could head
54:10
over to ai4mn .org across the top of the page.
54:14
There's some information where you can join.
54:17
And there's also information where we've got
54:19
our conference information, both for call for
54:22
proposals and upcoming registration. always a
54:26
really cool event and part of what makes it cool
54:28
is the hallway conversations and the keynote
54:31
and the conversations that are held across high
54:34
school setting where we're able to have different
54:37
learning from practitioners and that it is a
54:42
practitioner focused event. It is a leadership
54:44
focused event. It's not a vendor driven event,
54:47
although we do partner with vendors sometimes.
54:51
But just joining ends up being a great opportunity
54:54
and I invite both of you to also join. I know
54:58
that within Mangaia we've had conversations around
55:00
the importance of both ECMEC and SWWC for different
55:04
reasons and I think I just need to actually send
55:07
out emails to both of you with a little bit more
55:09
formality but that we've got some cool things
55:12
coming up where we've got partnership opportunities
55:15
because better together is always a Minnesota
55:18
thing, I think. And yeah, just education is not
55:23
something that we can do alone and not something
55:25
where one organization gets to do all of it or
55:29
any of it alone. Thank you. Yeah, that's great.
55:33
We'll make sure to put a couple of those links
55:35
into the show description. Let's get shared out.
55:38
So again, Dave, thanks for your time. And just
55:41
really appreciate all the things that you do.
55:44
Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for listening
55:48
to Integrate This. Want to take your learning
55:51
further? Head over to our YouTube channel for
55:53
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55:57
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56:11
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