Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / 🎅 Christmas is BIDAH! (Ft Mohsin Shah)

Transcript

🎅 Christmas is BIDAH! (Ft Mohsin Shah) · After Maghrib 🌙

0:00
For the love of Ace of Namariam, Alihim Salaam's Millar Ahmad
0:03
Rahim, Salaam Alaikum, and welcome back to another episode
0:06
of your favorite Shia Muslim podcast, After Madhu.
0:11
Like it. I like it.
0:12
I like it. It's a good new, new intro tone.
0:14
Yeah, I like it. I was just testing that.
0:16
Let's go. We'll keep it in, by the way.
0:18
We'll keep it. I like it.
0:30
I like the intro. Say some while they come over,
0:32
Welcome back to after Maglib. It's been a crazy couple of
0:35
weeks, so it's really good to be back here.
0:37
We're approaching now at the end of the year and I think for many
0:39
of you, you are probably like us, kind of preparing for the
0:43
end of the year and also surrounded by a lot of
0:45
festivities. I know I am, since Ali is
0:47
looking nice, looking like some holly leaves out here with the
0:50
green. So we're looking forward to
0:52
today's discussion, Brown sisters, and we're trying to be
0:54
festive on after Maghlib and there's a lot of festivities to
0:58
talk about as well. So Salaam alaikum.
1:01
See. Alaikum Salaam ahmadullah.
1:03
How you doing? Bro, why did you hijack my
1:05
intro? What's going on?
1:07
It took about 8 takes so had to be done.
1:10
How's it going? What luck, Handala?
1:11
How are you? Abdullah man, I'm good, I'm
1:13
good. We are, of course, we finished
1:15
Faltamir last week, so a lot of obviously super emotional time,
1:20
some beautiful majalis. So now we're kind of moving
1:24
forward and obviously being in the West as Muslims, you come
1:27
across times where you've got Islamic occasions to commemorate
1:30
or celebrate and obviously like Western occasions to
1:32
commemorate, celebrate as well. And now we're approaching
1:35
Christmas. Christmas is like everything to
1:39
the society we live in, so we had to bring on a specialist in
1:43
this topic, an expert, said Mossin Clause.
1:51
You can't have that in. There, put it in.
1:55
Put it in. I'm here.
1:57
How you doing, man? I'm very well haven't done that.
2:00
You've crossed crossed onto the other side.
2:01
Welcome to Adobe TV. How you doing, man?
2:03
Good. To have you on.
2:06
Thank you very much for having me on the podcast.
2:08
I hope you like my attire. I heard it was a Christmas
2:09
special, so I had to come down and represent.
2:11
Yeah. Obviously guys, this is a crazy
2:14
time for us. I think when you we actually sit
2:17
down and reflect about the kind of the period we're in, we put
2:19
like a poll on Instagram. We asked people what they
2:22
thought of Christmas. We asked people what, what they
2:26
felt about living in the West at times like this.
2:29
And that's something we want to get into today, if I can find
2:31
it. So we put out a question on
2:33
Instagram and if you're not already part of the the
2:35
broadcast channel Instagram, then check that out.
2:37
We say do you celebrate Christmas?
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Okay, We had about 100 plus responses in the last couple of
2:42
hours. 81% of people said Nope, I don't believe in it perfect
2:48
And 11% said, to be honest, I don't mind whatever anyone,
2:51
whatever people want to do. And 4% of people say I don't
2:54
mind unless it's in Muharram or Fatima, 4% of people.
2:58
So we kind of want to get into this because, you know, we're
3:00
talking about a big period and it's weird in this and to a
3:04
degree because we've just come out of our morning season and
3:07
obviously for the society we live in, this period of
3:09
celebration, How is it for you guys?
3:12
Is it a period of celebration for you?
3:14
How do you treat Christmas? Obviously, because we've been
3:17
here now for a couple of decades, so.
3:19
Before I say anything I I first want to hear say it clause
3:22
answer this question. Can you repeat the question
3:25
please? How?
3:27
How? Obviously being, being, being
3:31
Muslim. In the West, yeah.
3:33
Being a Shia. Muslim being a.
3:36
What What is your view on Christmas?
3:38
Celebrating Christmas. Christmas is a joke.
3:41
OK, I'll be honest with you. It's it's a fallacy.
3:45
It's lies. It's like it's a Pagan festival,
3:48
right? The the time period.
3:51
OK, so should we start from the beginning?
3:52
Let's. Start from beginning.
3:53
OK, so let me take this straight take.
3:55
This off, right? Let's get serious.
3:56
Let's, let's, let's throw that away, right.
3:59
It's a joke, Okay. So first of all, right,
4:01
Christmas is meant to be about the birth of Hazis Ali.
4:03
Sam. Correct.
4:04
Yes. Nowhere is it stated that Jesus
4:06
was born on the 25th of December, right.
4:09
Right. And if you look at Orthodox
4:10
Christians, so they're mainly in Eastern Europe, They don't
4:13
celebrate Christmas in the December period.
4:15
They celebrate it like later on in like, I think it's March,
4:18
April, something like that. Is that like Russia?
4:20
Yeah. Yeah.
4:21
Yeah. It's, it's totally different.
4:22
And there was never, ever any miraculous birth on the 25th of
4:26
December. The 25th of December was
4:28
actually a Pagan festival here in the West, especially in
4:30
England. And the tree was to represent
4:32
like all green and like, you know, may your winters be full.
4:36
Yeah, prosperous and full of and fruitful and so forth.
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And what it was is that when Christianity came to this
4:42
country, when the king decided or the royal royal family
4:45
demonic decided, Christianity is meant to be the main religion
4:48
here in the in the UK. They couldn't get rid of this
4:50
day. The 25th of December was
4:52
instilled in the culture year by year everyone was celebrating
4:56
and so forth. So they were like, OK, do you
4:58
know what? We'll just make this into a
4:59
Christian holiday. Oh, I see what it means.
5:01
So there's origins to it, isn't it?
5:03
Yeah. And then secondly, if you look
5:05
at so America, the worst like this, but Christmas has become
5:08
very commercialized. It's lost that religious,
5:11
spiritual touch of giving and getting and charity and looking
5:15
out for others and even remembering Jesus, fine, Jesus
5:18
wasn't born on that day. You know, you want to try and
5:19
remember Jesus and like Jesus got nothing to do with it now.
5:23
And that's not happening here in the UK.
5:25
Those who keep it real are like in in France and Spain
5:29
especially, they still have like marches.
5:31
They hold out. Yeah, you know, you know what I
5:33
mean? And so forth, midnight Mass and
5:35
and there's more religious there.
5:36
Whereas here in the UK it's it's there's a.
5:39
Lot of, there's a lot of positives that go with it.
5:41
So I know for example in Harrow, northwest London, a lot of the,
5:45
the interfaith communities there do stuff like midnight mass for
5:49
example. So you have a group of Muslims
5:51
from the local community who meet up with the local Christian
5:54
community and they use that as a time of of of joint prayer and
5:58
stuff like that, building relations with the community,
6:00
but. So when you say midnight Mass,
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is that like on the 24th of the summer?
6:04
Yeah, Christmas Eve. And then at midnight they, you
6:07
know, you make a prayer together.
6:08
So like, yeah, you go to the church, there's a football.
6:10
Yeah, literally you do a little speech, but it's become a very
6:13
big interfaith thing as well. But Mossin, we do something for
6:18
guests, OK before we kind of get into this, oh, is it like a
6:21
ranking game? Oh.
6:22
If it was a paycheck of sign, sorry.
6:25
I did it on his way to the. Producer Yeah.
6:28
Yeah, it's kind of like a ranking game, said Ali.
6:31
Hit us, bro. So the question for your ranking
6:33
today is what is your favorite holiday or celebration in the
6:38
year? Now we're going to give you 5
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options and you have to rank rank them.
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One being your favorite, your favorite, or five being your
6:45
least favorite. All right.
6:46
Ahmed, do you want to go first? Yeah, go on.
6:48
But am I going to read all of them?
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OK. So I'll do the last one.
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I'll do the. Last one say no more #1 milad
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and Nabi OK #2 Christmas. Oh, you didn't like that.
6:59
I thought you were going to make me do it like.
7:01
No, no. I'm going to give them five
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options to you, OK? Then I ranking.
7:05
I thought it was blind ranking. No.
7:06
No, it's not blind. It's not blind.
7:07
It's not blind. I think we can do blind if you
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want, if you do blind rankings. Yeah, go on, I'm.
7:12
Going to give you the options, I'm going.
7:14
To give you give me two, right, let's.
7:17
I'm going to give them to you just so the viewers understand.
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I'm going to give, I'm going to give, say, Moss in the events
7:22
and then you've got a rank him before you know what's coming.
7:24
Up. Yeah, that's OK.
7:26
So #1 milad and Nabi. I'll put that as I don't know
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what else is coming. Let's go for #2.
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Number two. OK.
7:36
Yeah. All right.
7:37
Christmas. That's not on my list.
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Oh, my 5:00. Five, Is there like 100 or like
7:44
102 or something like, no. All right, five.
7:47
Yeah, OK, Pakistan winning the World Cup.
7:51
Cricket all. My days, technically that's that
7:55
is a celebration that is like, oh, that's joint two.
7:58
I'm joking. I'll put that three.
8:00
Pakistan winning World Cups #3 yeah.
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Bro, we never win it like we Hardly.
8:04
Ever win? It won a couple of years ago,
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All right. 1. Oh, I like that Ali Ali.
8:12
I like that. I like that Shia voice final.
8:16
Number one, yeah, is the best. That's.
8:19
What number 4? Yeah, four.
8:20
That's four. Yeah.
8:21
So yeah, Number one was Khedir, #2 is Milad.
8:23
Nabi #3 was Pakistan winning the World Cup Final Number four was
8:28
Shia voice. Final #5 is Christmas.
8:30
You're happy with that? Yeah.
8:31
I think that's the best you can get, yeah.
8:33
I don't think it's a better combination, is there?
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Guys, let's know the comments, what you think if, how, how
8:38
you'd rank that? What do you think so do?
8:39
You know how I would rank it? Go on.
8:41
Oh, no, actually, I'm not. I'm not going to.
8:43
Participate. Get yourself in trouble with the
8:46
higher ups. Nonetheless, we're trying to
8:48
break the stereotypes today. Yeah, I mean, look, this is
8:52
it's, it's, it's it's a bit of an awkward time as well because
8:55
you've got to understand how to play the cards.
8:57
You can't go out in in society and anyone who wishes you Merry
9:00
Christmas or Happy Holidays or whatever, you can't tell them.
9:03
Just stay away from me. But at the same time there's
9:07
like a way to engage, in my opinion, to engage in the like
9:10
the festive period without contradicting or compromising
9:14
your own religious beliefs. You know, so, so like you know,
9:17
like you said the the recognition of there'll be Isale
9:21
Salaam, the family activities, giving charity using this time
9:26
and especially when we live in the West, bro.
9:28
There's so much homelessness right now.
9:30
There's people rough sleep. It's cold outside too.
9:32
It's freezing outside. There's there's people who've
9:34
got no family to visit on Christmas, no, you know, shelter
9:37
on on New Year's Eve, you know, like.
9:39
So there's a lot of things to consider about community and how
9:42
you support your your community. I think that's probably the
9:44
biggest lesson at the moment. Can I ask a question?
9:47
It all sounds good. It doesn't sound like anything
9:49
is wrong here. But why should we as Muslims
9:52
give Christmas any emphasis? I think that's the question we
9:55
have today. Yeah, I think like to be fair.
9:57
And the reason why I want to say this, especially here you being
9:59
the expert when it comes to Christmas.
10:01
I'm an expert. Apparently I did a PhD in, yeah.
10:04
Is that, you know, nativities? I genuinely believe Muslims find
10:08
any excuse to have fun. They'll handle that.
10:10
It's a good thing, OK, But Christmas a particular way.
10:13
They say what we want to celebrate the birth of Ayesha
10:15
Mariam Al Salaam. What about maybe La Musa?
10:20
What about, you know, Yusuf? What about all the other
10:23
prophets are they using? Are they genuinely using a
10:26
genuine excuse when they want to say we want to celebrate the
10:29
birth of Jesus, son of man? So.
10:30
You're telling me you don't have a fun time at Christmas?
10:32
I don't have a fun time. What's what's fun?
10:33
What's fun to you at Christmas? I'll tell you what's fun, the
10:35
fact that this year I have four days off work this weekend, and
10:38
next weekend I have three days off work.
10:40
So for me, I enjoy the fact that we live here.
10:43
In my family. We.
10:44
Live here in the West? That's our holiday season
10:46
regardless whether that's right, that's right.
10:48
No, you don't. I agree, I agree, I agree.
10:50
I think, I think for me it's like for example, the winding
10:53
down, it's obviously depends what sort of like field you're
10:56
in and your the environment, your school or your friends or
10:59
whatever. But the fact that everyone is
11:01
happier at this time of year, it makes me happier, I'll be
11:05
honest. So I spend more time with my
11:06
family. There's a very merry and festive
11:09
feeling, feeling throughout the whole season.
11:11
You look at any shop you go to, there's 100% is going to be a
11:14
Christmas tree. There's lights, there's
11:15
decorations, there's stuff that we've grown up with.
11:18
You know what I mean? Like Elf is and the the The
11:21
Nutcracker, like Little Soldier, the puppet thing.
11:24
And then you know what I mean? There's in the Christmas play,
11:26
it's. Called The Nutcracker.
11:27
The Nutcracker, yeah. My.
11:29
God, isn't it Tchaikovsky? I'm from a different.
11:32
Planet you guys need to read. Books, I know.
11:34
Basically, basically I think it's Tchaikovsky, famous
11:37
composer. He had a had a piece called The
11:39
Nutcracker which is done at Christmas time and then you have
11:42
like this soldier, it's made out of wood and you put the the nut
11:45
in the walnut in the mouth and you push the head.
11:47
Now I know where it's. Called a Nutcracker.
11:50
Yeah, I never knew. Like honestly, all I know is I
11:52
used to play with it when I go to the shops.
11:55
So, yeah, like I said, you know we we grow up with this period,
11:59
you know what I mean? And I guess I'll be personally
12:03
honest, it's nice. I sometimes I'll go down to see
12:05
the lights at Oxford Street and so forth.
12:07
Winter Wonderland comes, you know what I mean?
12:09
It's a great day out. Doesn't mean that I'm purposely
12:13
participating in the set in the celebrations.
12:16
So you embrace the festivity that comes from.
12:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not?
12:19
For example, if there was a Masira going on right?
12:23
And we have our own Masira and then we go down my blanch and so
12:25
forth. But if they if you're outside
12:27
your shop, there's a different Masira going on.
12:29
Let's say it's with the Hindus, or it's with the Sikhs or the
12:31
Jews, or this or whatever it is, right?
12:33
You'd stand out outside your shop and you'd watch.
12:36
You might ask questions. What's going on, isn't it?
12:37
Oh, OK. And you'd enjoy as much as you
12:39
want. And then you go back to your
12:40
your, your job. You know what you're doing.
12:42
Yeah, and even more so if they're, for example, marching
12:45
in favour of something humanitarian.
12:47
For example, if you have like the Sikh community who are
12:49
amazing bro when it comes to charity work, the charity.
12:52
Work, they call. It and you have imagine you've
12:54
got a Sikh community and they're they're marching for the rights
12:57
of homeless people in London and although you're not like Sikh
13:01
you participate in the message and the morals in the.
13:03
I know it's kind of a bit different but with Christmas as
13:05
well like there's a lot of there's there's a lot outside of
13:08
the trees and you know like the nutcrackers and all of that
13:12
stuff. But even then, like you said me
13:14
on a personal level, I don't think it's wrong to wish someone
13:18
for them if they celebrate and it's it's their practice and
13:22
their beliefs to wish them a happy occasion for them as.
13:25
A. As a Christian.
13:27
Yeah. Question, Yeah.
13:28
Yeah. Yeah.
13:28
Yeah. Yeah.
13:29
Like and obviously you can't and this is.
13:31
I can't do that almost. Am I wrong?
13:33
Am I right? I don't think you can.
13:34
I don't know the we have can't marry.
13:36
We have can't like. I'd do it for a laugh on it for
13:39
bands. Today I was at work and I was
13:42
writing up an e-mail and I ended with, you know, wishing you a
13:47
Merry Christmas, Happy and Happy New Year in advance.
13:49
And that's it. When it's nothing normal like I
13:51
didn't take a series. If you don't want to take a
13:53
risk, you say happy holidays, wishing you a happy festive.
13:55
Period. Happy festive period holidays.
13:57
And a prosperous new year. That's why I wrote to client
13:58
today a happy Fespis period and a prosperous New Year or happy
14:02
prosperous good new year, great New year, whatever it is, OK,
14:05
you could do that. So there's ways where you can,
14:06
you know we had a, we had a dilemma sent in and guys you
14:09
feel free to do this. There will be times where where
14:11
you can send in questions and we it'll be relevant.
14:13
We had a dilemma sent in which I will just find but basically
14:17
along the lines of someone sent in a question.
14:22
They said somebody come after mogup team.
14:24
I work in a Muslim run company and my boss has put up a
14:27
Christmas tree. I'm not sure how I feel or if I
14:29
should say anything. What do you think?
14:31
Sell out, sell out. Sell out, hands down.
14:34
Yeah, right. Because it's First of all, is it
14:37
a Muslim company? It says Muslim run company.
14:38
My boss is part. Of no.
14:40
If if the staff are Muslim, that's one thing, but if it's a
14:42
Muslim company, that's something totally different.
14:44
Yeah, I agree with. You know what I mean?
14:45
So let's say not mentioning any names of of any companies, but
14:49
there's a big warehouse, all the staff are Muslim, but from the
14:52
the superiors, they're going to say you're going to have to put
14:54
a Christmas tree up, maybe some decorations, there's going to be
14:57
a Christmas dinner, the office dinner, you know what I mean?
14:59
And all of that. So they might have to partake in
15:01
that. But if it's a Muslim company
15:03
with Muslim workers, I mean, do they do the same thing for aid?
15:06
Are they going to decorations and a day off you?
15:10
Shouldn't do that if if you're a company that works for the
15:13
Muslim community. Let's say you run a company, you
15:15
call it Muslim Foods Limited or something like that, yeah.
15:18
Allah Allah Ras. Say again, Hala hala's R Us.
15:21
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, the person who
15:22
starts in the dilemma, he's not part of that decision making.
15:25
He's saying what, what, what, How did he end up?
15:28
I'm. Not sure how I feel about it.
15:30
Should I tell him? OK, OK.
15:32
OK. I think he has every right for
15:34
his opinion. I think he should share his
15:35
thoughts. No.
15:36
You can Muslim and the Bosses are Muslim comment box.
15:40
Yeah, comment boxing. Anonymous thing, Anonymous.
15:43
Get rid of your Christmas tree. What do you what do you guys
15:45
think? Is it out of your place?
15:46
Because part of me thinks no. Well, I mean, this is a
15:48
professional environment. If the guy's your boss, are you
15:51
is are you Is it? Is it OK to go to him and tell
15:53
him bro, my religious beliefs don't agree with your
15:55
professional practices. Do you know what I mean?
15:59
Like, that's none of your business.
16:01
To a degree. I kind of feel like such tough
16:03
luck in it. Unless it's, for example, a
16:05
company that works for the Muslims within the Muslim
16:07
community run by Muslim staff on Muslims.
16:09
Yeah, of course then that's contradictory.
16:11
The messaging is contradictory. But if your if your boss is a
16:14
Muslim and he puts up a Christmas tree, here's what is.
16:17
You know, I think if it were me, I'll just ignore it.
16:20
Like I'm not going to go pay allegiance to the tree or
16:22
something. Do you?
16:22
Understand that's not fair. That's fair.
16:24
You know what I mean? Like if you want to celebrate,
16:26
go do what you want like but don't force it on me type thing.
16:29
But yeah, I've I've never put a Christmas tree up in my house
16:33
like and and and I think Muslims are, I wouldn't say the word
16:36
notorious, but I think they're well known that they don't
16:38
celebrate Christmas here in the UK.
16:41
No, I know. I know a lot of people.
16:43
Really, bro. A lot of people and it becomes
16:45
seriously. Yeah.
16:47
I'm sure this year you'll see on Facebook, on Twitter a big
16:50
thing. I remember Shakili, who's
16:53
obviously a good friend of the podcast put up something a year
16:56
or two ago may Allah bless him. But he he basically was saying
16:59
that there's a lot of Muslims who are doing it like low key
17:03
don't do it, you know there's no need for it the.
17:04
Most. Got a lot of hate.
17:07
The most ice that's happened in my family, everyone get together
17:11
and eat. Yeah.
17:13
Yeah, no way. Get together, enjoy the time you
17:16
spend with your friends, family. But do you think, do you think
17:18
this is an example of of Muslims having to compromise, living in
17:22
the West? No.
17:25
That's not, it's not. Forced on you.
17:27
You know, celebrating or embracing Christmas.
17:28
It's not forced on you. So you're choosing to be part of
17:31
those celebrations, right? Well, I would say for those
17:34
Muslims who are on the rise celebrating Christmas and
17:36
bringing Christmas trees at home and stuff, I generally don't
17:39
care. But I have a question for you.
17:41
I I. Before you go on that, can I,
17:42
can I put, can I put a span in the work?
17:45
So there's always been that conversation of does Islam allow
17:49
culture into it or is Islamist only thing.
17:53
So you have the topic do I do I dare say no rules.
17:56
You know what I mean? It's it's it's it's
17:59
traditionally Iranian festival of welcoming spring.
18:02
Are Muslims allowed to celebrate that or not because it's part of
18:05
Iranian culture. And then further down, I'm from
18:08
a Pakistani background, we have a famous day called Basant where
18:11
we kite fly, you know it's a day off, everyone goes and flies
18:13
kites and stuff like that. Are we not allowed to celebrate
18:15
that or take part in that? Moving on, what if we have
18:19
reverts who are from the English background, English community?
18:23
I'm talking your Smiths, your you know what I mean?
18:26
Hodgson's your your Williams your Roberts, right?
18:29
Edwards, your Henry's and Jacobs.
18:32
Yeah. And then And then you've got
18:34
them. You've got them who've come to
18:37
the religion, but they're they're English.
18:40
It's their heritage to celebrate Christmas for whatever reason,
18:43
whether it's festive or whether it's to do with Jesus or whether
18:47
it's to do with just commercialism.
18:49
That's part of their heritage, That's part of their culture.
18:51
It's the English thing to do, OK.
18:53
They don't celebrate Christmas. They're 100%.
18:55
They're going to have a Turkey and Yorkshire pudding, you know,
18:57
I mean, on the 25th of December because that's what they did.
19:00
That's their, that's their heritage, that's their culture.
19:01
And then they've got their family, their parents are going
19:03
to send them Christmas cards and presents and so forth.
19:05
So what does that person do? Yeah.
19:07
Well, that's that's a fair point and I'm going to get back to
19:10
this on especially on this revert point, but there is
19:12
someone that wants to join the conversation.
19:14
With SO Guys, it's the Arsenal Monsour time.
19:16
Oh, big laugh. Salaam Salaam.
19:18
Familiar face. Come on, just to follow up with
19:22
St. Max in there about the reverts.
19:24
I think if the our respected reverts that have Hamden, that
19:29
have been guided back to the religion, start to say that this
19:32
is my heritage, this is tradition, There's just a fine
19:35
line between what you can do because of your heritage and
19:38
tradition because when people converted, when I saw the last
19:42
started and they were all idol worshippers, there was a lot of
19:45
traditions they used to do. They used to pick up their idols
19:48
and make a festive day out of them and parade the streets.
19:51
Now that they've reverted, can they still do that now?
19:55
You might say that's a whole different thing because you know
19:57
it's idols. That's a proper shirky thing.
20:00
But. At the same time, Christmas
20:02
trees and celebrating Christmas buying presents, you might see
20:06
no harm in it. But at the same time you might
20:09
be promoting that to the people around you that now that I've
20:12
reverted and now you are representing Islam and if you're
20:15
Shia, you're representing Shia Islam, which is a even bigger
20:19
minority. You're just going to show other
20:21
people that even though I'm I've reverted, I'm still going to
20:24
focus on my traditions and MyHeritage because it's rude and
20:28
awkward, but So what if it's awkward?
20:30
You have to follow. You have to follow.
20:32
Yes, yes, Sir. What if Arriva is invited to the
20:34
family Christmas dinner? You know, I mean, God, put the
20:37
party out on, pull the crackers and everything.
20:39
Line is as long as it doesn't contradict and conflict with
20:42
what the what you're allowed within Sharia.
20:44
Yeah, you know, like, like. You just said on Christmas Day
20:47
the most you do is eat dinner. There's no difference if he goes
20:49
see dinner, but then if it goes further to him having a but
20:53
he's. He gets presents and he has to
20:55
give presents to his brothers and sisters.
20:57
But at the same time, listen these are.
20:59
These are fine. These are very fine details that
21:01
can be amended and avoided very easily.
21:06
I don't think that's hard for anyone to.
21:07
I think, I think it's fair to say also you that was a really
21:09
good point. But I think it's fair to say
21:10
that, look, why are you celebrating Christmas?
21:12
Yeah, if you're celebrating for the birth of Hazadi Saddam,
21:15
right then OK, there's something wrong there.
21:19
He's not born. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
21:21
If you're doing it for religious reasons, yeah, it's a bit it's
21:24
there's a there's a fine line. Islamically for us, is not ISIS
21:26
not born on that day? No, but it's also not.
21:29
Christians, it's an opportunity. On that day, if you could you
21:32
could make that festive period of families coming around
21:36
because you know at that time of the year, whether or whether or
21:38
not you do, you celebrate Christmas, your family are going
21:41
to have time off work. They're going to be wanting to
21:43
get together. So you could use that
21:45
opportunity and create a culture within your family for example,
21:48
so you can call it Imam Mehdi Day.
21:50
For example, within your house you talk about the return of the
21:53
Holy Imam Alafazzar Sharif and you talk about the return of
21:57
Nabi. And you could make it that far
21:59
going to sing. But the idea being is that you
22:01
know like these fine details. What if this guy goes here?
22:03
What if he gets that present. I feel like those are are
22:06
semantics and small details and like we're not Monaja or you
22:11
know anyone who who wants to look at that.
22:13
There's guidance on that from say Sistani and all of the other
22:15
Monaja Miller preserve them. But you know those are things
22:18
which anything which crosses the boundaries of Sharia, we can't
22:21
get into that. Do you get me?
22:23
Because it's as simple as that. But I sorry, say go on no.
22:25
No, I was going to say the thing with reverts, I I thought of
22:29
them being part of this, let's say festivities.
22:32
I don't think it's the problem. The problem is for them is when
22:34
they promote shock. See, I think that's when it when
22:37
it becomes dangerous. Let's say they're ex Christian,
22:41
you know, they grew up all their life, 25 December or 24
22:43
December, whatever, whatever day they celebrate their Christmas
22:45
lunch or Christmas dinner, opening the presents, that's
22:48
always been their family vibe. That's what what's made their
22:51
family come together. Just just like as we do during
22:54
the end of the year, what do we do between Christmas and New
22:57
Year? No one's got to work because the
22:58
family. Do get together together as.
23:01
Long as we're not really thinking that, OK, the Son of
23:04
God is born on this day, yeah. We take, we take that.
23:08
Really. I think 90.
23:09
Five, 9598% of of society doesn't consciously think that
23:15
even if they're wearing outfits and they're going to Christmas
23:18
party then that might be partake partaking.
23:21
Like you said in the the current day Capitalist Commercialised
23:24
Christmas but is not actively believing in.
23:28
This is the day that the Son of God, Jesus Christ was born.
23:32
My Lord and Saviour, My Lord, yeah.
23:35
He died for me. I live for him.
23:36
If anything, you can use the opportunity to promote
23:38
interfaith dialogue and, you know, like, you know, it's a big
23:42
one. But look, the broader discussion
23:43
here, which I want to move into, is the West, OK?
23:48
Like, oh, look, we, we've talked about this a lot on different
23:51
podcasts, kind of like in bits and pieces.
23:52
This is what I'm going to throw at you, OK?
23:53
Because I know we didn't really give you a heads up on this.
23:55
But if you look at our Family Heritage 345, how what, what
24:00
generation are you in terms of as an immigrant?
24:03
My first generation, so my parents are from.
24:06
Your parents? So you're second generation?
24:07
Yeah, Second generation. All right, fine.
24:09
So for me, on my dad's side I'm 2nd and on my mum's side I'm
24:14
4th. That means my kids are fifth
24:16
generation immigrants, which blows my mind.
24:18
But if you think of it, where have you come from?
24:21
The world? Pakistan.
24:22
Iraq. Where have you come from?
24:24
Our parents moved to the UK either for opportunity or to
24:27
escape ideological warfare or to escape like literal
24:31
dictatorship, persecution like like 91 uprising in Iraq or
24:35
whatever. It might be Afghanistan but the
24:37
idea being is that we've come to the West to seek opportunity and
24:41
there are there are freedoms that come with it, freedom of
24:44
belief and expression. Freedom to earn, freedom to
24:46
practice. But we also see a rising
24:48
movement, a far right movement in the in Europe generally.
24:52
OK, so for example you can't wear hijab in in University of
24:55
France. You have the creeping of like
24:59
different practices which put Islamic practice at risk without
25:03
naming names. You guys know what I'm thinking
25:05
of and the the long term thing is OK, where is the prime the
25:09
optimum location for me to it's my religion freely and to raise
25:13
my family. So I want to ask you guys
25:15
because I did. We did ask this question.
25:16
I'll tell you the results after after we hear what you say.
25:19
Where is the best location for you to live and and to raise
25:24
your family. Is the West?
25:26
Is the UK the the Place to Be? London's the.
25:30
Place Are you happy? Are you happy with it,
25:31
basically? Not me, no.
25:33
OK. There's for so many reasons like
25:35
I think the West is on is is the on the way down now it's
25:38
finished. We talk about health, economy,
25:41
ideology, politics, even the international powers that they
25:45
they had slowly going. Now they're not considered the
25:49
big boys anymore. The petrol dollar is about to
25:52
explode. But I mean explode, I mean
25:53
finish. Yeah, any second.
25:55
Now it's it's on, it's last, you know what I mean?
25:58
Stilts on his last straw. So I think for us as a
26:03
community, the future isn't in the West, that's all.
26:08
Reverse migration. Yeah, I don't even reverse.
26:10
I think the Middle East is a big shout.
26:14
It is the future because simply because of the money, funding
26:17
and the vision that they've had, they want to be equals to the
26:20
West. Your Qatars, your Saudis, your
26:24
Bahrain, your Kuwait, Jordan, even they they all Oman.
26:28
Yeah, they all want to. You know what I mean?
26:30
Iraq. To be honest, Iraq has been.
26:32
Iraq has the potential 100% has the potential great potential.
26:36
If, if, if any of our youth are going from the UK to Iraq
26:39
primarily, it's either for family reasons or for studies.
26:43
I mean, unless you've got job opportunity there, but.
26:47
See, I think there's nothing wrong living in the West so long
26:50
as it doesn't influence you, so long as it doesn't change you.
26:54
So that's it doesn't corrupt you.
26:55
That's. Cost of living Cost of living
26:57
crisis, I. Would change you.
26:59
Your first language is English. I'm talking about from like.
27:01
Tory Party. And godless society, you
27:04
understand. Okay God leave.
27:06
He's godless society. As long as that doesn't
27:07
influence you, I think it's fine.
27:10
You can get the best of both ones.
27:11
But then, technically, you can be wherever you want, as long as
27:13
you get to practice your religion freely, you get to pass
27:16
it on to your children, and so forth.
27:17
They know what's right or. Wrong child.
27:19
You just free them here in London.
27:21
I agree. Then.
27:22
Then you can go. You can go anywhere then,
27:23
technically. Yeah, but that's also you said,
27:26
I mean, you, you, you, the way you're raised and hadith the
27:29
middleman and don't raise your children the way you've been
27:31
raised, you know what I'm saying?
27:32
Because like you born in the 90s, I'm joking.
27:36
Say again. Yeah, not like you're born in
27:38
the 90s, your kids born in, in whatever, you know to twenty
27:41
10s. Yeah, completely different
27:43
landscape. So you might have the freedom to
27:46
practice, but when your children are 30 years old, we're talking
27:48
about 2050, do you know what I mean?
27:50
So the the the the world is a different place 40 years on from
27:54
when you were born 50 years old. It doesn't mean we shouldn't
27:56
live here, it just means the community needs to do a better
27:58
job. Right, OK.
27:59
Interesting you. Know what I mean?
28:01
Because nowadays, if we look at it seriously, if I can look at
28:04
thousand kids around me, none of them go madrasa, none of them go
28:07
to school, None. None of the parents are bothered
28:09
to take their kids to a mosque, if I'm honest about it, But in
28:12
our days, back in the day. You get slapped if you didn't
28:15
hold. Up if we dare to say no, I don't
28:17
want to go Hosseini or to the mosque or Quran lesson.
28:19
Today that was not happening. And we see that difference
28:22
between our generation and the current generation because
28:25
there's no emphasis and I believe like our leaders, our
28:28
community leaders are doing nothing.
28:30
Yeah, they're doing it for their.
28:33
Own community, they're not doing it for the wider.
28:36
I sent on you. Understand.
28:37
Yeah. I think that's unfair, man.
28:39
I think there are people doing I'll.
28:41
Call the house is people work Only I.
28:43
Think I think. I think seniors have had it a
28:46
bit difficult. Arakis for the Arakis and.
28:49
Yeah, but the seniors, some of them still don't speak English
28:51
yet. And like, it's like I'm talking
28:53
about my own community, not even by the Iraqi or the forger
28:55
community or anything like that. But it's like you haven't
28:58
developed, you haven't kept up to date, OK?
29:00
You have been in this centre for how many years now, 10 years,
29:03
1520 years, or how many people have you converted, How many of
29:06
you invited to Shia Islam? And it's ridiculous.
29:09
And there's someone with the TV channel, you know what I mean?
29:11
Who's doing like a hundred a month?
29:14
Easy. Maybe a week like a conveyor
29:16
belt converting people and it's like you.
29:19
Listen to different things, right?
29:20
So you've got the the role of the community and community
29:23
leaders. That's got their effectiveness,
29:25
which I think plays a part in the bigger picture of the
29:28
society we live in and how how palpable it is to stay in the
29:31
society. So if you've if you examine
29:33
living in the West, it's going to be different whether you're
29:35
talking about living in Shropshire versus living in
29:37
Easton. Do you know what?
29:38
I think it's going to be completely different because
29:40
it's it's basically effectively you're living in like 2
29:41
different countries. You can't compare living in in
29:44
Wales or like you know, Republic of Ireland to living in you
29:48
know, next next to Hedere or Stanmore, wherever it might be,
29:51
do you know what I'm saying? So completely different
29:53
landscapes altogether. But the idea being is that long
29:56
term, like you said, I think that was a good point.
29:58
Like there there's the the societal influences like the the
30:03
the crashing economy and and the like the governance that we live
30:06
in so effect on healthcare, education, ideology, ideology
30:10
and the ideological impact it has on our children.
30:13
So, for example, the rise of the LGBTQ movement, which of course
30:17
plays like a huge. What was it they're teaching at
30:19
school? The rest?
30:20
Something RER something RSC. Or RSC, yeah.
30:23
What they're teaching at school. Yeah, yeah.
30:24
I think you're saying on top of these things as as as like
30:28
people. Are now You mentioned this.
30:29
You mentioned the Alphabet Mafia, as I call them.
30:32
Yeah. Where's our community members?
30:34
I mean, there are lots of. Community.
30:35
Stuff, bro. There are people do stuff, bro.
30:37
We have. We have.
30:38
But I. Be.
30:39
Careful, I am part of the wider shit community.
30:42
Yeah, but The thing is, it's not as easy as that because like you
30:44
said, the Alphabet Mafia have have had such an impact that
30:49
children have been put into social care, I mean taken away
30:51
from their parents and so forth. Anyone that speaks against them
30:54
has been cancelled. Their Twitter accounts have been
30:56
blocked. Their Facebook accounts been
30:57
blocked. And so forth.
30:58
So it's very, very delicate. And also and also that saying
31:02
what's how community doing about it.
31:04
I know a lot of communities that have tried to talk about it and
31:07
then the community members saying what's this nonsense
31:10
you're talking about? This shouldn't be said on the
31:12
member, this shouldn't. Be so this is a taboo topic as
31:15
well. It's coming from both.
31:16
It's so sensitive you. Can't talk about some community
31:19
leaders. Yeah, but but then if we're
31:21
gonna blame the community leaders for not doing anything
31:24
about it. Community.
31:25
There's some community leaders that are, but their community
31:28
isn't letting them do it. Listen, because they're saying
31:30
what's this nonsense? You can't talk about this in the
31:32
mosque. Yes, let me tell you.
31:32
And it's happened in my community.
31:34
If they're not talking about it, it's because they don't get
31:36
cancelled. I'm telling you the.
31:38
Community is their duty to mention and I I think.
31:41
I think you're looking at it from 11 school, so you have to
31:44
look at it from both. Our teachers, we have school
31:46
counsellors, we have parents. Our parents days we have
31:49
teachers who are in our community who are doing work.
31:51
If they are, if they disagree with the matter, Trust me,
31:54
people are are speaking up. But I think if more than
31:56
anything, I've seen so many. How many WhatsApp forwards have
31:58
you received about this stuff in the last two years?
32:00
A lot. You know what I mean?
32:02
Godfrey. No, there was a Shia sister who
32:05
was going round. Doing talks, she lost all her
32:07
jobs and. Everything and she.
32:08
She You have to you have to be measured.
32:10
You have to be measured and balanced when you're.
32:12
I think there there is a There is an attempt, but obviously it
32:17
comes with pros and cons and you have to look at it from.
32:21
Both sides. Both sides, Yeah, Yeah.
32:23
And that's just one example. We'll talk about the LGBTQ
32:25
thing, about the challenges living in the West.
32:28
Christmas and Christmas celebrations is another example,
32:31
Okay. But then you've obviously got
32:33
the flip side. And the general broader thing is
32:36
the ability to practice and the ability to build a community
32:39
which is most prepared for the coming of Haliman.
32:41
Because we have a hadith which talks about the opposition that
32:44
come from the West. Shout out to Jumar Nice.
32:47
Check it out guys. There's a lot of sick
32:49
information. Muhammad Ali Marshall, a lot of
32:51
really good information there about the coming of the Holy
32:53
Imam and and where and when things are going to take place.
32:57
Imam is going to need people in the West to build communities
32:59
here, to strengthen, to share his message, whether it's TV
33:03
channels, whether you're on the member, whether you're engaging
33:05
in schools, doing interfaith work.
33:07
But at the same time there are people who will say no, we want
33:10
to be in the place where the Imam will be frequenting
33:13
himself. He'll be visiting himself.
33:15
Want to see his hutba face to face, do you know what I mean?
33:18
So it comes down to what? Your priorities?
33:19
Are so one day mum. And the last time the forager
33:21
comes, he's telling me he's not going to discuss LGBTQ. 100%
33:25
We'll discuss everything. Of course he will.
33:28
He will and and then the community will have to listen to
33:30
him. But when it's a normal Maulana,
33:32
the community gets to decide if they want to listen to him.
33:35
Why does the community get to this?
33:37
Because the community leader is talking to his community, but
33:40
his community aren't accepting what he's talking about.
33:43
So what's he supposed to do? He can't just repeat himself
33:45
whilst no one's listening. Maybe maybe talk about I.
33:47
Genuinely believe this. This whole LGBTQ thing is the
33:51
most biggest threat it. Is and then and then.
33:55
That's why I'm saying have to look at both sides.
33:57
Because if we all come together on this podcast and say the
34:00
career to leaders, you should be doing.
34:02
That it's not I've. Seen them?
34:03
I've seen them try. It's we.
34:05
We become very insular. We become single minded if we
34:09
rely on a more line on a jumah kutba to talk about LGBTQ and do
34:13
what? At the end of the day these
34:15
things come down to lobbying and and pressure on government.
34:17
You need pressure groups. For example, just a quick one on
34:21
in the news we saw yesterday, there's government changes.
34:24
So for example, now in schools, teachers don't need to call
34:27
children by their preferred pronouns.
34:29
So if you have someone who's born but born biologically, a
34:32
boy, a male, and they say I now identify as a girl, a teacher
34:36
doesn't need to adhere to that identification based on the
34:38
child's preference. They can now, yeah.
34:41
So for example, now they can the the government guidance.
34:45
Cats and bats. The other day the government
34:46
guidance is now call them by their name rather than, you
34:50
know, because. And it says to to reduce the
34:51
risk of bullying and whatnot. OK.
34:53
Now what I'm trying to say is that we've seen a sway
34:56
ideologically purely because of the investment in lobbying and
34:59
peer pressure groups, because like that's just how society
35:02
works. And as long as Muslims don't
35:04
have any influence in the right corridors of power in the UK,
35:07
I'm not talking about beneath a member or on the like wherever,
35:12
you know, I'm saying the podium is not mosques.
35:14
That has its place, but I'm talking about the society we
35:18
live in will ultimately come down to how much Muslims can
35:21
affect change, and whether you want to be someone who effects
35:24
change internally. You've got to actively say,
35:26
well, I'm going to do the necessary evil for argument's
35:29
sake, take a position of power and maybe contribute to a
35:32
government or a society which opposes the ideological movement
35:36
of the Holy Imam. Am I willing to do that or not?
35:39
At the end of the day, that moral choice is down to the
35:41
viewer. Do you know what I'm saying?
35:42
So you guys let us know what you think because I know we we've
35:44
kind of gotten. Well, I think you both got me
35:45
wrong when I was trying to say because you asked the question
35:47
was where is it better to live in the West or should we go back
35:50
home, in other words, correct. My point was, you can live here
35:54
so long as our leaders, our communities, our massages, our
35:58
Hussein yard, they give us something to do, something where
36:01
we can stay on par, on track, you know the.
36:03
World is because is bigger than the mosque.
36:05
Why should I leave the West? Let's say, let's say I'm on my
36:10
Dean, my family's on my on their Dean, and everyone's happy
36:13
fasting, everyone's praying, everyone's going, everyone's
36:16
going, Ziara, everyone. Why would I leave the West?
36:20
I agree. If it's what?
36:21
Affected me. If it's not flourishing, but
36:23
that means we have to look after the future generation.
36:26
My point is, if Maulana is not talking about LGBTQ, what's
36:29
going to happen to Jason? They're going to change their
36:32
name to other, not Jessica at the end of the day.
36:33
Do you understand? My point is they need they, they
36:36
need, they need to get it from a very young game.
36:39
It's, it's, it's, it's we're past that stage side.
36:41
We're past the stage where it just comes.
36:43
I don't think we we rely on one, one person in one position of
36:47
power to speak to 3000 people as a one man scholar, for
36:50
argument's sake, once a week or once every 3-4 or five weeks or
36:54
once every three times a year to address an issue, hoping that
36:57
one person might listen and take his advice on board.
37:00
Bro, we're past that, man. We're way past that.
37:03
We're we're talking about curriculums now.
37:05
We're talking about generally society like our community's got
37:08
to be a thing where youth like have such a strong bond of
37:12
brotherhood built on the foundations of religion that
37:15
then encourages people to be amongst the right when.
37:18
You find it in the community. I I personally find that in the
37:20
committee. I feel like, at least in the
37:22
committee I was raising, I found that I don't know about you guys
37:24
because we're from three different.
37:25
You're from Hosseini mission, Yeah.
37:27
Yeah. Yeah, Hounslow flipping Sulat
37:31
Adam and Stanmore. Yeah, shout out to all three.
37:33
Shout out to all three, but all three of our communities are run
37:36
very, very, very differently and we're all in the same part of
37:38
London. Do you know what I'm saying?
37:40
So you know this is you're never going to get, it's never going
37:43
to be a black and white yes or no answer ultimately I think.
37:45
But we we have to have that that mindset like where, where we,
37:50
where are we going to reach our optimum potential.
37:53
I think our potential's in the West.
37:56
I think, I think potential can be anywhere as long as you are
37:59
striving forward and you're developing and progressing.
38:01
Doesn't matter whether you're you're still in Korma Najeef or
38:04
you're in Pakistan or you're in you know Dallas, TX or whatever.
38:07
As long as you are progressing, you know you start off with a
38:10
small room of Majalis, then you get a bigger venue with
38:14
wrestler, inshallah, bigger schools, Hauser, you know bigger
38:19
than that, your own, like you know charity hostels or you know
38:24
solicitors to give free advice to the community and this.
38:27
And then you grow and you go hospitals and then the next
38:29
thing you know, you've got your own village, you know, and then
38:32
the village becomes a city eventually and stuff And you
38:35
know, I mean long as you're progressing in Charlotte.
38:37
Because we've kind of developed our own culture as Western Shia
38:41
Muslims and that's all. I think after Muslim is about
38:43
the community. Yeah like as as you know when
38:46
Hasiba she's on the pod. When we did I ended season 2
38:49
Hasibi shout out was was on the podcast.
38:52
He talked about the development of our, our culture.
38:55
And in a really simple way, he talked about like fried chicken.
38:58
Yeah, chicken, chicken, yeah. He's like, I remember this
39:01
example. He's like, that's something we,
39:03
we know Yani. It's like from the ends, the
39:05
flavour. That's a very the.
39:07
Very UK, very London culture like there's something we're
39:11
used to and he goes that's something that's unique to to
39:14
us. And we've developed that's a
39:16
fusion of Eastern and Western and whatnot.
39:18
And on obviously on a greater level, we're now British Western
39:21
Muslims who probably speak at least 2 languages and we, we,
39:25
we, we have friends from different communities and
39:28
whatnot And we can embrace that because then you have the the
39:31
like the foundation of organisations like our TV
39:33
channels like who's saying like so many of these organisations
39:36
which are doing tablia work and at the same time serving
39:39
humanities. You get me and we won't get that
39:41
living in the East. And we won't get that if we
39:44
compromise our morals. We won't get that if we
39:47
compromise our morals reach and and we succumb to basically
39:51
embracing entirely our Western culture and we put aside our
39:54
Islamic values and then we we just embrace it and then you get
39:58
lost forever. Do you get me?
39:59
So you like you're saying, both of you are saying that you've
40:01
got to have a good balance? And you got all I can't you
40:04
can't just I, I. Like the point you made there
40:06
with the reach that we have here in the West.
40:08
Oh yeah, There's no way back home we can reach, you know,
40:13
Eastern Europeans, Italians, Spanish, French and introduce
40:16
them to these wonderful lessons. I have a friend.
40:19
He's always going to walk, yeah. The guy Marshall Lamy, Allah
40:21
bless him, good friend of mine. He he thrived in the advertising
40:27
industry in New York. OK, OK, so he was he was like
40:30
half the billboards in Times Square was run through him.
40:34
Do you get me? What did he do?
40:36
He's like, I have a skill and I have a passion to spread him on
40:40
Hussain's name. So first he started Times Square
40:42
adverts of Mammar. Same every Muharram.
40:45
Cool. He's like, you know what?
40:47
I want to do something bigger. He went out of his comfort zone.
40:50
He moved to Colombia. He's now been there for four
40:52
years. He lives in Colombia.
40:54
He found a a a wife there. He married her after she
40:57
reverted. And he's now got a community
40:59
which he's built himself from scratch of 30-40 people every
41:03
week. Coming to Arkamel, he said My
41:05
mission, my like I he's my sole mission to serve the imams.
41:08
To bring Imam Hussein's name to a part of the world where it's
41:11
never reached. That's something we won't get
41:14
really elsewhere, but it's the advantage that we have from
41:17
being given a Western education and and all of.
41:20
That flag bearers. So we asked this question on on
41:22
the channel. Do you guys think it's, do you
41:25
think the West is compatible for Muslims to live and practice
41:28
freely in? We had give or take about a
41:31
couple 100 responses. About 56% of people said there
41:35
are issues, but it's the only option for me living in the
41:37
West. OK, same. 36% of the people said
41:41
not really, I'd consider moving abroad long term and 16% of
41:45
people said, yeah, I'm happy here, we have freedoms and
41:47
choices. So that gives you an idea guys,
41:50
where we are at as a community. So let us know in the comments
41:53
what you guys think and and how you feel.
41:56
I feel that we have all the freedoms to practice your
41:58
religion here and promote and propagate.
42:01
Yeah. So why leave?
42:04
Oh, of other reasons. Yeah, but it's political, isn't
42:07
it? Like you've got the rise of far
42:08
right here. Yeah, generally it's polarized.
42:11
See, I would say you leave the West if it's influencing how you
42:16
are with a lost. Part of time accent I was
42:19
influencing. I was going.
42:20
To grow in that sense, I don't care about economy.
42:22
I don't care about none of these things.
42:24
My point is, if we can, we what? What we can achieve here is
42:27
greater than what I can achieve back home.
42:29
I'll be very honest. Yeah, but you're talking about
42:31
like you don't mind me saying what you can see now, but you
42:35
have to be able to forecast as well like you talked about
42:38
that's. The point of IGBT.
42:39
Movement. I mentioned the community
42:41
members, yeah, if we if we want to make sure we we look after
42:45
the future generation. But it starts like you're you're
42:47
always going to be at the mercy of society because the community
42:49
is part of this wider society. So, for example, the left is
42:52
becoming more left, hence the LGBTQ movement.
42:56
Climate change, just stop oil. You have all of these movements
42:59
which are leading further and further left.
43:01
So would you put just stop oil as a reason of why I should
43:03
leave the way no. I'm talking about as a movement,
43:06
the left are moving further left and the right moving further
43:08
right. I'm losing.
43:09
I'm not understanding what's happening.
43:10
Here in terms of the political spectrum, okay yeah, you have
43:13
the right wing of becoming more far right, so you've got more
43:16
anti anti-Semitic Islamophobic attacks for example.
43:20
Yeah, you have more vandalism on mosques and churches.
43:24
I understand more because we started with Christmas and I
43:26
thought the conversations about the influence the Western.
43:30
Society has as Muslims, but when you forecast society, you can
43:32
see that the things are changing in long term.
43:35
Yeah, but I don't know, I don't want to go to a completely
43:37
different thing in it. Yeah, what do you think?
43:40
Said I. Think they ruined the rainbow.
43:42
Honest to God, I I generally mean it.
43:44
Like when my when my daughter counseled me she wants to like
43:47
draw a rainbow or something. I just can't.
43:48
Yeah, that lot lot to think about, but just to wrap up,
43:53
yeah, and kind of towards the conversation.
43:55
There are pros of staying in the West.
43:57
There are pros of staying there, pros of Go.
44:00
I can't, I was going to say. I'm leaving for the better
44:06
weather. Where would you be?
44:08
On a level, if you had to think of.
44:09
If I had to go anywhere, yeah man, Jamaica.
44:12
If I had to. Oh no, no, I I really like
44:13
Cyprus. I really enjoyed Cyprus.
44:15
Really. Yeah.
44:16
And there's a really Lebanon as well, very nice mix of east and
44:19
West. Lebanon's an interesting one
44:21
because you've got a a community here which is 33%.
44:24
It's 1/3 Sunny, Shia and Christian.
44:26
I'm sure Christians there can practice freely and you know
44:29
and. Christmas, I think, is big.
44:30
Christmas in Baghdad, I heard, is massive.
44:33
It's. A big Christian.
44:34
Community. Yeah, yeah, you.
44:36
You know what I like about, you know, the Christians in Iraq
44:39
Couple of years ago, Urbain, by the way, fell on Christmas.
44:44
Yes, the Christians of Iraq cancelled Christmas.
44:47
Really. Respect.
44:50
I truly love that. I truly love that.
44:53
That's a country I would move to and leave the West for.
44:58
There's a lot of solidarity, the one of the nicest things about.
45:01
Who cancels Christmas? Only about.
45:04
Accent. I like that.
45:05
I work with not the Grinch. I want for a lot of Christian
45:09
hierarchies. And the best thing about them is
45:11
they still use like Wilesen. Wil Abbas.
45:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:21
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:24
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:29
That really cute. It like 'ators or future
45:35
generations to maybe not even move but spend more time in
45:39
Islamic country because you know the perks that you get back
45:43
home. For example, you hear the call
45:44
to Adan. Well, when you hear, when you
45:47
hear the Adan, it's impossible not to go and watch A.
45:51
Friend, there's nothing like that rings.
45:53
All we. Have to remember is when you go
45:56
for SIADA, we go for Angla, where you go to to one of these
46:00
places and you feel that like solace.
46:02
You feel like, yeah, I could die here, happy, happy man.
46:05
You know, when you get that feeling, Yeah.
46:07
And you're like, yeah, I'm, I'm chilling.
46:09
I'm not thinking about taxes or like council tax or like, do you
46:12
know what I mean? Most random things that are, you
46:15
know, your Tesco Club, card, mortgage, you know like the most
46:18
random things which are on your mind.
46:19
You'd only get that at the Dome of Imam if I say yeah,
46:23
mashallah. But there is one more pro, yeah,
46:26
of being in the like, home. And there's one con being in the
46:31
West. OK.
46:33
See, given the rise of this alphabet mafia stuff, yeah,
46:39
let's say you are in Iraq. Let's say you you have a kid.
46:43
I don't know. You're 8, you're 9, you're 10,
46:46
you become sixteen, become a teenager.
46:47
You have certain thoughts, right?
46:49
But then your environment and your surroundings will sort of
46:52
help guide you, stay you to where you need to be,
46:55
Islamically, Zahia in the West. The con here is, when it comes
47:00
to this, is that they're actually going to take you
47:03
towards that path. They're going to say no, Don't
47:06
just feel that way. Embrace.
47:08
Yeah, you're in a massive. Try it out.
47:10
Live it out. Yeah, you have pop culture, the
47:13
Netflix that is the music, social media.
47:16
You can't open social media apps now without stumbling across
47:19
language. You knows.
47:20
How long do you get me? You're on Snapchat, for example.
47:23
There's adverts, you're on YouTube, There's adverts you're
47:25
watching TV, you're on Netflix, You.
47:27
Know someone was telling me the other day, if you keep watching
47:29
Netflix, you're going to end up joining that community anyway.
47:33
Not going to mention. There's an agenda too, because
47:36
the way. The.
47:37
Media is working. Is just pushing that agenda.
47:41
Even even I know you are superheroes.
47:43
Comic book characters. Please say it.
47:44
No. No.
47:44
No, no, no, no. Very nice stuff.
47:46
Things on the surface seem innocent, kids shows, you know?
47:50
It's the the desensitization. Yeah, absolutely.
47:53
It's the desensitization of things which we consider
47:55
immoral, but which Western society might consider
47:58
completely fine. And it's easier to lose yourself
48:00
here. By the way.
48:00
Yeah, you can become godless, fearless, and forget Iman and
48:05
Allah and just embrace your point back home.
48:09
It's a bit impossible. Why?
48:11
Because you have a community. You.
48:12
Have family, You have brotherhood that bring you back
48:15
towards that part. If they see you sort of, you
48:18
know, fall out of line, go somewhere else, go left, go
48:20
right, they sort of stay you back.
48:22
I know that people went back home would or wherever back home
48:24
is or probably in the east would probably say though you guys
48:27
think this, but it's probably different and it's rising there
48:30
too I think to more extreme degrees in smaller numbers.
48:33
But in those numbers, it's calling a more of a ripple
48:35
effect making making more noise. But look, at the end of the day
48:38
it comes back to like you guys have really, really perfectly
48:41
put like how you choose to raise your family, the work you put
48:46
into yourself, the Mahasuba. And like the self accountability
48:49
you have on yourself is ultimately the most important
48:51
thing. Like you, the the people you
48:53
choose to hang around with on Christmas.
48:54
It's like a perfect microcosmic small example, small sample
48:59
size, about what sort of life you're happy to live in this
49:02
society. Are you happy to engage in
49:04
Christmas parties with drinks, with your work colleagues?
49:07
Are you happy to, you know, go, go to, like, whatever, Go and
49:12
like knock on doors and give, give gifts and stuff like that
49:14
to random, Do you know what I mean?
49:16
These kind of things are like a small example or a way to
49:19
measure where you stand currently.
49:22
So maybe we need to reflect on that, you know?
49:24
And yeah, Merry Christmas, happy holidays, Happy holidays, happy
49:29
holidays. I'm not sure about Merry
49:32
Christmas, the best happy holidays.
49:34
Happy. Festive.
49:34
Period. Happy.
49:35
Ali Happy festive period. Yeah.
49:37
So Wilson, thanks for joining us, bro.
49:38
No worries. Thank you for having me.
49:39
I'm going to go back to Commerce first now.
49:41
So, yeah, thank you. How's, How's your experience?
49:44
What? Here.
49:44
They're here. Fabulous.
49:47
Fabulous. Fabulous.
49:48
Fabulous 5 minutes. No, that's a fabulous.
49:50
Do I get a Christmas present? You get a Christmas, Chris, if
49:54
you want, you got mistletoe on you.
49:55
But what? No idea.
50:02
Oh my days. Spill the beans.
50:04
We have nothing. We have.
50:05
We have some I. Beg you please read, read books
50:08
or something man, get cultured. I told you he's dressed with the
50:11
occasion, bro. Marshall.
50:13
Allah, yeah, thank you. Thank you bro, for joining us.
50:16
See Ali as always pleasure. Alright guys, that's what we
50:20
think below in the comments. How do you feel about this
50:23
conversation? I know we've it's been very like
50:24
light hearted and formal so forgive us.
50:26
There's probably a lot of things we've forgotten to mention and
50:29
we're just talking about it in jest really and and like to a
50:33
more like what's the word I'm looking for light hearted.
50:36
Yeah like really chill light hearted manner because we want
50:39
to know what you think as well. We're not experts or scholars
50:43
and we keep telling you, refer back to these guys because they
50:46
are the experts. But ultimately we make up the
50:48
numbers. So yeah, remember, you can
50:51
always check us out. Spotify, YouTube, we're trying
50:53
to get close. We're just hitting, I think
50:55
we're hitting 5K5K on YouTube now.
50:57
Just cool, nearly on 20K Instagram.
51:00
So help us get to that number as soon as possible.
51:02
I remember you can catch Alibay TV on on Amazon Fire Stick as
51:06
well. So check out alibay.co.uk/ithink
51:10
Amazon Fire Stick. But at least check it out
51:12
because yeah, in the description you can get a free Fire Stick
51:16
when you support the channel. Yeah, guys, we will see you next
51:20
week as always.