Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Smoke Signals with Olivia Woodward

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Smoke Signals with Olivia Woodward · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and best
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey, Caitlin, Yes, Jamie,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I have a proposition for a road trip. But there's
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a twist. Okay, it's the saddest road trip of all time.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: You know what? That sounds okay to me. I'm in
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: if we went on a road trip, but in the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: process of the road trip, we faced not just one
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: of our demons, but literally all of our demons and
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: came out on the other side better people. But it's
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: gonna be pretty, it's gonna be it's gonna be a ride.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a painful ride, and I'm gonna throw
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: your canteen into a ditch. I'm in, all right, let's
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: do it. I mean, honestly, it'll be worth it. It'll
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: be where that I love it. It sounds like we'll
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: spend some quality time together. We're going to learn a
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: thing or two about a thing or two, that's for sure. Wow, beautiful,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Toronte.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: where we take a look at your favorite movies using
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. Today is no exception, No episode
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: is any exception except maybe the Human Centipede episode. I
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: would say that was maybe an exception, although that might
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: have been our most feminist episode. Well, it's also the
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  Speaker 1: most feminist movie we've ever covered, so it wasn't hard. Like,
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  Speaker 1: what did we even say besides perfect movie? End of episode?
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  Speaker 1: I think that that's all we said. I think it
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  Speaker 1: was a one minute episode. But yes, that that is
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: what the podcast is about. But Caitlin, what the heck
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: hell hockey sticks are? Is? Um? The Bechdel Test, Well, Jamie,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you. It's a media metric created by queer
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Becktel, sometimes called the Becktel Wallace Test, where
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: in our version of the test requires that two people
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: of a marginalized gender have names, talk to each other
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  Speaker 1: about something other than a man, and hopefully that's a
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  Speaker 1: narratively meaningful conversation. We have an interesting we have an
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  Speaker 1: interesting movie in that regard, to we have an interesting
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  Speaker 1: movie in every single regard. Today, I'm very, very excited
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  Speaker 1: to cover Smoke Signals. Same and that We've got an
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  Speaker 1: amazing guest here with us for that discussion. She's a
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  Speaker 1: content writer for a tribe called Geek. She's a citizen
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  Speaker 1: of Cato Nation. It's Olivia Woodward. Hello. I am so
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  Speaker 1: excited to be here now, I mean now we have
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  Speaker 1: councy Olivia Woodword. My name is Olivia, and it is
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  Speaker 1: so good to see y'all. It is so good. Thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being here. This is like a dream. I've
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  Speaker 1: been a big fan of the podcast for a very
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  Speaker 1: long time, so I'm so excited to be here. And
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  Speaker 1: this is like also one of my favorite movies. So awesome,
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  Speaker 1: very excited, good, amazing. Tell us about your relationship and
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  Speaker 1: your history with Smoke Signals. Yeah, so this is like
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  Speaker 1: a classic Native American movie. Everyone in my generation older,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure about younger, but definitely older. All
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  Speaker 1: of us have seen this movie. This is like the
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  Speaker 1: Native movie, maybe for like the U. S Natives. I
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  Speaker 1: can't really speak for indigenous people in Canada, but I
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  Speaker 1: know for us we quote I quote it with my
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  Speaker 1: best friend all the time. Very quotable movie. Yeah. So
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  Speaker 1: this came out in and I was a child. Um,
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  Speaker 1: So I don't think I saw this in theaters. I
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  Speaker 1: think it was one of those where once it came
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  Speaker 1: out on VHS, we all got together at like the
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  Speaker 1: community center and watched it as it grew because it
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  Speaker 1: was one of the first mainstream Native movies that we
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: all got to see that was made by Native people
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  Speaker 1: starring Native people. So and then it just becomes like
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  Speaker 1: a yearly movie that you watched, right. Yeah. So Smoke
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  Speaker 1: Signals is recognized as the first future length film, written, directed,
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  Speaker 1: and produced by Native Americans that reached a wide audience
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  Speaker 1: both in the US and abroad. So it's like a
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  Speaker 1: very significant film in that regard. Jamie, what is your
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  Speaker 1: history with Smoke Signals? Um? I had seen portions of
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  Speaker 1: this movie before in high school, I believe. And then
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  Speaker 1: also I think I've seen like it's one of those
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  Speaker 1: movies that I feel like it's on a lot. We
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  Speaker 1: talked about movies like this all the time, like it's
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  Speaker 1: it's on TV a lot. I see. I watched it
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  Speaker 1: in high school because I had an English teacher that
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  Speaker 1: we did a big unit on Sherman Alexei's writing, which
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  Speaker 1: I think, I mean was I think for me certainly
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  Speaker 1: the only Indigenous writer that we've studied in all of school.
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  Speaker 1: Sounds about right right typical American education. Well, you're lucky
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  Speaker 1: because we did not discuss any Native authors for I
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  Speaker 1: wand so that's may mean, that's really cool to hear
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  Speaker 1: that you got that in your school. I think sometimes
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  Speaker 1: it's up to the teachers on what they taught, and
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  Speaker 1: that was just something we never got in our curriculum.
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  Speaker 1: I very I mean in Sherman Alexei complicated figure, um,
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  Speaker 1: which we don't have the purview for really in this episode,
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  Speaker 1: but like I want to acknowledge that. But yeah, in
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  Speaker 1: high school, we definitely read The Lone Ranger and Tonto
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Fist Fight in Heaven, which includes the short story that
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: this movie is adapted on, and we watched it in
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  Speaker 1: class and I remember really liking it. But I haven't
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: like revisited the movie in many years, and um, I'm
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  Speaker 1: so glad that we're revisiting this movie. It is such
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: a It's like, there's so many reasons to applaud the director,
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  Speaker 1: Chris Hair for the tone that this movie strikes. But
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  Speaker 1: for a movie that tackles a lot, it still is
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  Speaker 1: such a fun road movie and like you're saying, Caitlin,
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  Speaker 1: it's so quotable and it's so rewatchable, and um, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I had a great time watching the movie, and I'm
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  Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. What's your history with smoke signals?
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  Speaker 1: I didn't have one. This is my first time seeing it.
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  Speaker 1: I'm really excited to talk about it. I wasn't expecting
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  Speaker 1: it to be as funny as it is. And it's
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  Speaker 1: also extremely like you said, Jamie, like strikes this really
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  Speaker 1: interesting tone where it's like very moving, very compelling. There's,
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  Speaker 1: you know, moments of intense drama, but there's also a
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  Speaker 1: lot of comedy, and it's it's just a really interesting
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  Speaker 1: fun story. So, um, I guess with that in mind,
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  Speaker 1: should we just do the recap and go from there.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Let's jump in. Gotta close your eyes though when you
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  Speaker 1: do it right, Thomas. Yes, I will be emulating Thomas
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  Speaker 1: throughout the recap. Um Okay. So we're on the kurd
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  Speaker 1: Aline Indian Reservation in Idaho. It's July n a k a.
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  Speaker 1: The bi centennial. A couple Maddie and John, builds the
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  Speaker 1: fire is throwing a huge party at their house on
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  Speaker 1: the reservation. Then we get voiceover from Thomas builds the fire,
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  Speaker 1: who tells us that in the middle of the night
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  Speaker 1: after this party, a fire tore through the house, killing
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  Speaker 1: the narrator's mother and father, but he was saved. He
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: was a baby at the time who was thrown from
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  Speaker 1: a window, and a man named Arnold Joseph played by
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Gary Farmer catches him and delivers him into the arms
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  Speaker 1: of baby Thomas's grandmother. In the aftermath of the fire,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: we meet Arnold Joseph's family, his wife Arlene, and his
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: infant son, Victor. Arnold mourns the tragedy of this fire
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  Speaker 1: by cutting his hair and turning to alcohol abuse, and
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  Speaker 1: then one day he gets in his truck and leaves
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  Speaker 1: his family forever. We then cut to Thomas played by
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Evan Adams and Victor played by Adam Beach are now
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  Speaker 1: young men. Thomas is He's a sweet guy. He's a
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  Speaker 1: bit of an odd ball. He always wears a suit.
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  Speaker 1: He has a propensity for telling stories and tall tales. Victor,
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  Speaker 1: on the other hand, has a bit of a prickly,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: cynical attitude. They don't really get along with each other,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: nor did they as kids. Because we flash back to
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  Speaker 1: Thomas and Victor as like twelve year olds, we see
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  Speaker 1: a flashback or Thomas tells Victor that he heard his dad, Arnold,
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  Speaker 1: had moved to Phoenix, Arizona, after Arnold left his family.
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  Speaker 1: Back in the present, or at least um, Victor's mother
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  Speaker 1: gets a call from a woman named Susie Song saying
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  Speaker 1: that Arnold had passed away and that someone should come
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  Speaker 1: to Phoenix to get his stuff. So Victor's trying to
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  Speaker 1: figure out how to do this, what exactly to do,
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  Speaker 1: and Thomas offers to help him. He has some money
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  Speaker 1: saved up and can help Victor get to Phoenix, but
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  Speaker 1: Thomas wants to go with him, and he is also
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  Speaker 1: like bankrolling the trip to right, Yes, he has a
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  Speaker 1: jar of a huge jar of what looks like some
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: like singles, maybe some like five dollar bills, but it's
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: mostly coins. I love Thomas so much that honestly, that
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  Speaker 1: could get you a couple of tickets. That's a house
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  Speaker 1: face the house. Yeah, yes, uh so Thomas wants to
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  Speaker 1: go on this trip. Victor clearly does not want this,
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  Speaker 1: but then Victor's mom, Arlene encourages Victor to go with Thomas,
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  Speaker 1: basically saying that it's okay to accept help from others.
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  Speaker 1: That's what a community does for each other. And she
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  Speaker 1: also makes Victor promised that if he does go that
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  Speaker 1: he will come back. So then Victor goes to Thomas
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  Speaker 1: and says that he will accept his help and that
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  Speaker 1: Thomas can come with him. So they set off, first
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  Speaker 1: getting a ride to the bus station from a couple
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  Speaker 1: of friends who drive their car and reverse the whole time,
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  Speaker 1: which is never explained. Okay, it's just kind of okay,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not from a reservation, but I have friends and
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  Speaker 1: cousins who live on a reservation, and that's kind of
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a commentary on how there are no real, like functioning cars. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: you make deal with what you got. It's like they're
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: basically the quintessential res car. So that's kind of what
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: where that came from? Got it? So they get this
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  Speaker 1: ride and then they get on a bus where they
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: interact with a few people, including a gymnast woman from
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Mississippi and then a couple of racist white men. Throughout
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: the movie, we're also getting flashbacks of different things Victor
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and his father, Victor and Thomas as kids. Thomas also
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: tells various stories along the way, often about Arnold, how
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: he was a hippie. How he took Thomas to Denny's. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: We also see a flashback of Arlene begging Arnold to
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: quit drinking, and that's when Arnold takes off and leaves
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  Speaker 1: his family for good. We see young Victor be absolutely
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: devastated by this, and he takes out some of this
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  Speaker 1: kind of emotional turmoil on young Thomas. So that's part
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of their kind of rocky relationship. Yeah. Back in the present,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Victor and Thomas finally arrive in Phoenix and walked to
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  Speaker 1: Victor's dad's trailer, where they meet Susie Song played by
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Irene Bdard, who is Arnold's neighbor who had called Victor's mom.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So then Susie gives Victor his father's ashes. Victor's like
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: in a rush to leave, but kind of at the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: insistence of Thomas, they end up staying and hanging out
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: with Susie for a bit. Thomas tells Susie some stories,
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  Speaker 1: such as one story about a feast where Victor's mom
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: fed a hundred people even though she only had fifty
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: pieces of fry bread. That's my favorite story. That's the
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: one I will be like and she and You're like
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: you know that's where the story is going, but the
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: way he tells it, it's just so like so cinematic almost,
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  Speaker 1: he really sells it, and I am my favorite part
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: of every story Thomas tells us when they cut two
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: whoever he's telling this story to right after he finishes,
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  Speaker 1: like this huge climax, and then it like cuts to
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  Speaker 1: Susie and she's like, yeah, that was a pretty good story. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I love when he's telling the story to the two
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  Speaker 1: women in the car that only goes backwards and they're like, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: what do we what do we think was that a
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  Speaker 1: good enough story to like deserve giving you a ride?
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  Speaker 1: And the one friend is like, I think it was
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  Speaker 1: a great example of the oral tradition. And then they're
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: like all crack up laughing. It's it's so funny. Okay.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: So then so Thomas is telling stories. We also get
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: some flashbacks where we see Susie and Arnold becoming friends.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: We see Arnold talking about his past and his family
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: talking about Victor. Meanwhile, Victor is questioning the nature of
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the relationship that Arnold had with Susie. She said that
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: they like kept each other's secrets. Victor seems resentful that
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: she was close with Arnold, while like Victor, hadn't seen
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: him for years and years. Victors also reluctant to deal
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: with his dad's stuff a k a. Deal with the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: past um. Susie then reveals that Arnold told her about
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the fire on that fourth of July, and that it
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: was Arnold who had accidentally started it while he was drunk,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: and also that he went back into the house to
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: save his infant son, Victor. The Victor thought it was
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: always his mom who had saved him, and Susie also
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: says that Arnold had wanted to go home and return
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: to his family. He never, you know, meant to die
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: in Phoenix, but that's simply what happened. So then Victor
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: finally goes through his father's things, He cuts his hair
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: with a knife that he had found, and then he
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and Thomas leave early the next morning in Arnold's truck,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: without telling Susie goodbye or anything like that. Emotions are
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: running high in this car ride, Victor and Thomas started arguing.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Victor is saying that Thomas holds Arnold in such high
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: regard even though he was a drunk, abusive liar, and
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Thomas is saying no, no, no, he was more than that,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: and you just need to grow up. And yeah, your
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: dad left your mom, but you left your mom also,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: and your worse because you still live in the same
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: house with her. And then your heart just goes like,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: oh my own, you're right. But he's so naive and
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: yet so wise. So as they're yelling at each other,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: they nearly collide with a car on the road that
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: had already crashed. This drunk white man is belligerent. He's
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: trying to blame the accident on Victor and Thomas. Another
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: woman in another car is badly injured, and even though
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the close this town is twenty miles away, Victor sets
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: off on foot to try to get some help. He's running,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: he's reflecting on the past. We're getting a lot of
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: images from the fire and just his past. He collapses
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: in exhaustion. He has a vision of his father helping
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: him up, and then we cut to the hospital where
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Victor is recovering. It seems like they might be in
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: trouble with the law, because this drunk guy is still
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: insisting that the accident was Victor's fault. But then they're
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: released and Victor and Thomas head back to the reservation.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: When they arrive, they split Arnold's ashes and discuss their
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: plans for laying the ashes to rest. Victor returns to
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: his mother. Thomas returns to his grandmother. There's voice over
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: about from Thomas about how do we forgive our fathers?
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: And then we see Victor pouring out Arnold's ashes in
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: a river, and I think that's is that the last
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: thing we see? That's where that's where I stopped the recap.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: But I didn't put a period, and I was like,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: did I mean to write more? And then and then Thomas,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you know, there's there's these Thomas interludes, um, and it
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: ends on and Thomas, you know, I would expect no
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: less from him. He really puts a beautiful bow on
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the story. Yes, I am in love with Thomas. And
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: that's the movie is the movie. So let's take a
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: quick break and then we will come right back to
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: discuss and back, Um, where do we want to begin? Olivia?
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Does anything jump out to you right away as wanting
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: to start somewhere? Sure? Um, so I guess my well, Okay,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the question the first thing I wrote on here to
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: ask both of y'all is which of Thomas's stories was
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: y'all's favorite. M hmmm, this might just be I did
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: love the fry bread like ouran splitting the friebride in half,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: that might be my favorite. But I also because I'm
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: such a Denny's head and he tells the story about
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Arnold taking him to Denny's like three different times, I
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: want to say, I love that story, Jamie. You and
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I just went to Denny's together the utterly yesterday or
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: two days ago, two days ago. Yeah, we loved it.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: And I yeah, I really liked the Denny's story, partially
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: because it seemed like it was thomas favorite story. Also, um,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: but I also this isn't thomas story, But I really
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: loved Arnold's story about the basketball game against the Jesuits. Yes,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: just like the way that the actor like sells the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: story and the way I don't know, I mean, there's
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: so many things that this movie does so like seamlessly
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and beautifully that like in the hands of a less
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: capable director, could have seemed so corny or clunky. But
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: like the way that the timeline of this movie is
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: constantly shifting, but it's never confusing, and it's always very
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: fluid and the way that the stories are illustrated in this,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: like you can tell that there's stories as they're being
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: acted out, and like it's acted out in this like
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: big mythic way, in the way that the rest of
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the movie isn't. And I just yeah, I just like
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I love how this movie is crafted. But I really
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: like the basketball story as well. What's your what's your favorite? Olivia? Oh,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: definitely classic And I don't lie. Me and my my
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: friend will text each other that sometimes, like actually, so
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: that's just the classic among us. Yeah. I always appreciate
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the way they portrayed the storytelling in this movie because
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: so I grew up with my tribe. I didn't grew
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: up on a reservation. I grew up was known as
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: an urban Indian um because I grew up in the city.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: But I was so very connected to my tribe growing up.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: And storytelling is an essential part of our culture, how
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: we passed down our mythologies, our religions are ceremony and
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: in movies that have native characters that are not by
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: native people, the way the native character tells the story
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: is like always stoic and like straight faced, But that
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: is not how we tell stories. That would be boring.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: We wouldn't do that for thousands of years, right, So
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I really appreciated how how cinematic all of them were
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: when they were telling those stories, especially the dad. And
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: a part that stuck out to me quite a bit that,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: of course, like made me think of a million different things,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: is it's like a flashback and Arnold is talking to
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: young Victor in the car and he kind of goes
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: on a little drunken speech because he's definitely drinking and driving,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: which is not great. But the part that really stuck
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: out to me a lot is it's the speed tree.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: He's imagining. It's such a good day. I'm a magician.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I can make this disappear. And that's it's that monologue.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Also a lot of monologues in this movie too, uh,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And the part that really stuck out to me was
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: making the Catholics disappear and going into this movie, you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: when I was younger, it was just a fun movie
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: that had characters that look like my friends and family.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: But as an adult, I can really see how generational
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: trauma affected my parents and affect my grandparents. And that's
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: like kind of what Monold was, Um, you know, he
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: don't want to be a drunk. But I would assume
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: that he his community was directly affected by residential schools
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: and boarding schools. So I feel like it's kind of
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: a hard thing for me as an adult watching this
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: is hard to ignore, like that it's a big reason
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: why Arnold is the way he is. But yeah, that
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the speech of the car. That's also another one of
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: my favorite parts of the movie. Yeah, okay, so wait,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: so you said a bunch things and I want to
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: address a bunch of things there. I have kind of
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: like two general thoughts about the movie. One is that
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: this is such a great example of a movie that
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: depending on the viewer. So, for example, if it's a
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: native viewer, this movie gives them the opportunity to see themselves,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: their culture, their family dynamics represented on screen in a
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: respectful and meaningful way. If it's a viewer who is
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: I would say probably you're just like average non native person.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Gives that viewer an opportunity to see a culture on
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: screen that they might not know that much about, that
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: they probably have some preconceived notions about because of other
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: media that relies on stereotypes and tropes, many of which
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: are harmful and it gives those viewers a chance to
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: learn about a culture from filmmakers who are from that culture.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: So it's like such a regardless of who is seeing this,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful film. Yeah, it's it's really fun
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: for me because growing up, I only the only other
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: people I knew who saw this film was Native people,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: and I never pressured by non Native friends to watch
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: it because I just assume they wouldn't get it. But
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: now as I get older, I don't want to say
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: forcing them, but to have a greater you know, to
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: kind of understand me a little bit more. And I'm
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: very passionate about movies and media in general, so to
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: understand me more is to watch Snow singles. So I
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: have been having close non Native friends watch it. So
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: it's really interesting to see the reaction because I guess
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: my worry with this film is that it's not relatable
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: to non Native So it's really nice to hear that
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: it is relatable. And well, that's my other general thought,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: which is it's it's just a story about two young
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: men who are dealing with very relatable things. They're dealing
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: with generational trauma in vastly different ways. They are learning
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: from each other. They are reconciling their relationship along the way,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: and it's one of those stories that, yeah, I feel
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: like Hollywood executives would be like, this is too specific.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: This is about a culture that won't resonate with your
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: average American. Therefore people won't see it, and we can't
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: make money from a story like this. But it's such
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: a universal story about such universal things like friendship and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: reconciling your past and your present and learning lessons and
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: dealing with family stuff. Both characters have a compelling arc
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: about things that are, like again, very universal and relatable.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: So even though it centers characters from a specific culture,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: one that shouldn't matter, and two, it's still such a
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: relatable thing that they're dealing with. The anyone can enjoy
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: this movie. I loved one thing that really stuck out
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to me with and you'll start to sense a heavy
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Thomas bias because I just really love and as I
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: was watching it, I remember feeling the same way in
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: high school. You know, like when you haven't seen a
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: movie in a long time, you're like, oh, I was
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: just as like, oh, he's the best in high school. Um,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: but I really like how again, this movie just like
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: does so much with such a like deft writing touch
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: that would have felt clunky in the hands of a
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: less capable writer director. Um. But the way that Thomas
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: is referencing quite a bit existing media that portrays his
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: culture that is made by white people and is way
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: off the mark. I mean, they're talking about that in
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: the movie constantly. And also it's clear that Thomas is
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: still influenced by that media because there's just so much
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of it. And I thought, like the conversation that Thomas
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and Victor have on the bus where Thomas is kind
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: of rattling off all these different depictions of Indigenous people
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: in in like American movies, and he's kind of making
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: fun of it, but but Victors like, oh, you've probably
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: seen Dances with Wolves two hundred times and he's kind
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: of bullshitting. But then Thomas Thomas is like, well, and
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: it just like the movie very like seamlessly addresses how
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: poorly Indigenous people have been represented in the past, and
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: like how little there was in terms of any representation
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: that Indigenous people were included in or didn't center around
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: a white savior or and then and then you know
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: John Wayne's Teeth classic I love that it starts out
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: with them just like improving that song on the bus,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and then it cuts to like diagetic on Diagetic music.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I never remember which ones which, but it's basically like
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: a song on the soundtrack of this movie about John
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Wayne's teeth. And I was like, this is comedy gold
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: number one. Just okay. So I don't want to assume anything,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: but have y'all been to a pow wow before? I
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: have not? Okay, So what they are doing in that
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: moment is, um, what's called like a song. So pow
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: wows their drum groups, and so okay, maybe real quick,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I don't want to assume too much of my audience,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: but a powow is a gathering of native people of
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: all different drives, usually in all the event, and it
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: includes dancing and vendors and socializing. It's really fun. Also
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: there's ceremony involved. We will honor people, will welcome people
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: into the circle, and so there's always drum groups. Um,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I know in the South. So also I'm a native
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: from the South and some of the things we do
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: are different than natives from the North. And I feel
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: like to say that because I don't want to make
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: it assume I know everything about all natives. They're over
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: five tribes alone in the US. So, but in the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: South powells have a southern drum and a northern drum
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: and some drum groups. In order to warm up, we'll
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: do songs and those are like the funny songs and
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: the joke songs. So that way MA can warm up.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: So that's basically what they're doing. So again, a really
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: fun thing for me watching this movie because I'm like, oh, that,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: that's really funny. I've already seen that all the time.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I love seeing the movie and it's fun to watch
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: it translate to non native people who have never even
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: been to a pow wow and don't even have the
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: context for that. I can still enjoy it the same way.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: That's so cool. I didn't Yeah, I didn't know any
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: of that. I would love to go to a pow wow.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Are non native people welcome? Oh? Yeah, non data people
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: are very much invited to pow wows, like there are
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: certain rules, kind of follow what everyone else does, um
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: and all. It depends again, like where you are, But
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: in general, native non natives are very much welcomed. At
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: power is one of the few Native things that non
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Natives are always welcomed at and it's also great if you,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: you know, spend your money there, right, non Natives are
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: very much invited. Um, yeah, and I know there are.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: There's a really large Native community in um California as well. Um,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: so I can feel some information I would love on
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: the powers that happened there. But yeah, powers are super fun.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: That's why, like it's not really cool to be like,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: let's have a power when you're talking about like a
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: sales meeting, because it's a real especial thing that we do.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: But back to the conversation on the bus, it's a
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: really fun conversation because again in two Oh my God,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: we recognize too that they are criticizing dances with Wolves,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: but natives at the time, like my parents age and
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: my aunt's age, Dances with Wolves was a huge deal
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: because they used actual Native actors. So that's part of
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: the reason why Thomas watches Dances with Wolves so much
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: because at the time that's kind of like all we
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: had and the nights are really interesting. Time in Native
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: cinema is kind of like, um, it's kind of like considered,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I guess the renaissance of Native films because while Smoke
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Signals is probably the most famous. We also got Um
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Dance Me Outside, which is really well known within the
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Native community, and Powow Highway. And what I love about
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: all of those movies is that they're funny. You know.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Even starting when Natives did participate in entertainment, and I'm
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: gonna go way back to like vog Bowl time, we
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: were always stereotyped as like the noble savage and that's
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: kind of what we got stuck with for centuries basically.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And then in the nineties, filmmakers were able to get
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: funding and start showing different parts of being Native and yes,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: we all do tend to have a shared trauma and
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: a shared history, but we're also really how we get
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: through it. So that was also really exciting too about
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the nineties and then I feel like there were some
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: movies in between now, but now two we have TV
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: shows like Rutherford Falls and Reservation Dogs, so it feels
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: like we're going back into another Native media renaissance. That
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: is very exciting. Yeah, definitely, hope. So a few thoughts.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: When Victor is asking Thomas, like you haven't seen Dances
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: with Wolves one two hundred times and He's like, maybe
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: you and Titanic. First of all, exactly saw that coming
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: from five miles away, like they should have seen that.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Damn Iceberg, the Iceberg, Right, Okay, we absolutely suck um.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: What you were just talking about, Olivia in terms of
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: um and I think we've talked about this before on
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: the podcast, especially on I want to say it was
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: a Matreon episode on What We Do in the Shadows,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: where especially from like studios or anyone who is funding
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: stories by marginalized people, they're always like, well, you're gonna
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: want to do this tragedy porn, right, because that's the
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: only story you have to tell, right, And obviously that's
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: not the case. And you know, there's so many filmmakers
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: who want to explore many different tones and genres and
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: stories and and and I just remember commenting on how
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I loved that What We Do in the Shadows was
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: a movie by indigenous filmmakers that is just them being
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: silly vampires. So so for for Smoke Signals, it feels
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: even though it's like a lot of aspects of indigenous
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: culture are referenced and are a huge part of the movie,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: and pretty serious heavy topics are examined, it's not the
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: tragedy porn that a white Hollywood exec would insist indigenous
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: filmmakers to make. So yeah, I feel like it's it's
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: just like another It's it's like something that is so obvious,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: but whenever it comes to like Mr. Hollywood stuff, it
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: kind of goes back to that discussion where it's like
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: a movie can be culturally specific and really funny and
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: not a tragedy porn, which this movie is like a
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: perfect case study of. One thing that I really love
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: too that was very relatable is the conversation that Victor
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: and Thomas have and Victor trying to teach Thomas how
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: to be a real Indian Um is very relatable, especially
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: as someone who grew up within the city around a
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: lot of non native people. One thing I grew up
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: a lot with is when people saw it. So first off,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I grew up in Texas, which if you are brown
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: with dark features, you're Mexican, right, So I grew up
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: not being visually recognized as Native. And then it doesn't
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: happen much anymore. But growing up, when I would tell
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: people as Native, they would be like, well, you don't
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: look Native, and I'm like, what does that mean? Um?
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: So their conversation was fun for me because the elders
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: and that the powers. They would joke and be like, well,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: you have to look serious all the time. We're serious folk,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: and then they're like off laughing somewhere about cakes or whatever.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so I like that a lot because that's something.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: You know, Native people look different across the continent. So
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I thought that was a really interesting exploration. Uh, Like,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: that's something I would want to talk about, is like,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: what does the native person even look like? What is
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: There's no right way to be natives. There are serious natives,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: they're silly natives kinds of natives. So I really enjoyed
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: that conversation as well because I feel like it kind
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of also tells the audience you don't know what a
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Native looks like, and that's okay. You just have to
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: believe when they tell you I am you know, I'm
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Native and this is my history. So yeah, yeah, part
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: of that was Victor being like, yeah, you have to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: look really serious and mean. You have to look mean
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: or else white people won't respect you. And your hair
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: is done up in all these braids you have to take,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: you know, let your hair loose, and he's like, you know,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: he's like kind of rattling off different things, and Thomas
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: clearly takes it to heart for a little while because
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: then you see and he's because he's also like, you
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: have to take off that suit. Um. So then in
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the next scene, what are you talking about? His suit
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: is very cute, his braids are beautiful, but he like
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: he like takes off all that stuff. And I think
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: he only looks like that for one scene because in
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the next scene he's like back in the suit, he's
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: back in his braids because he's like, wait a minute,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I can present anyway. I want myself like also real quick.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Since we're kind of talking about the braids, I'm pretty
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: sure the actor who plays Thomas, I'm pretty sure that's
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: his real hair. Um. But Adam Beach, who plays Victor,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's a wig, especially when off when
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: he cut it. Okay, the wig, Okay, I'm glad to
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: talk because the wig in the last and it's it's
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: hard because it's like that's where a lot of the
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: really really serious moments in the movie are and he's
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: wearing this goofy wig like it's like a party city.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: They it was a wild it was a wild wig.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: I usually have a good eye for wigs, not to brag,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: but I mean, yes, true historically have a good eye
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: for wigs. I wasn't I wasn't thinking wig for most
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: of the movie. But maybe that was just a better wig.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: But the whatever the end the third act, wig flop.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know, because they did him so dirty. I
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: don't know, I know why they did that. He was like,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, the acting in this movie is incredible, and
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: to be undercut by a bad wig is just not nice,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: especially during the emotional like peak of the movie too,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: just when you forgive the sins of your father and
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: you're wearing that wig like a Karen wig. He's got
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: a bomb um. I was actually wondering if you would
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: speak to the significance of hair, because it gets referenced
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: in the movie, because there's the part at the beginning
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: where it's mentioned that Arnold mourned the fire by cutting
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: off his hair, never growing it back. That we have
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: the scene where Victor's telling Thomas to take his hair
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: out of his braids because quote, an Indian man ain't
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: nothing without his hair, and then when Victor is like
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: really finally like coming face to face with his past,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: and he's going through his father's belongings and kind of
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: reconciling all that. He almost seems to like ceremoniously cut
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: off his hair. So yeah, just if you could speak
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: to the significance of that, of course. Yeah, I actually
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: wrote down notes on that um so hair. And again
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I can't speak for every nation, but one thing that
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of nations do share is relationship to our hair.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: It's considered kind of an extension of your I mean
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: caticl it is, it's like an sension of your skin.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: So it's another way of kind of feeling the world
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: around you. So the different hairstyles can mean different things,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: but in general, whenever someone in your family dies or
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: someone close to you dies, you you cut your hair
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: um to kind of help with the morning process. So
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like because the hair is kind of
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: like an extra sensor to the world, and so whenever
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: you're sad, it's becomes more sensitive almost, so you cut
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: it kind of help process everything. And then with the
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: new growth is also helping like you not only move on,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: never really move on to my one's death, but to
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: kind of like branch into your new life with your
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: new hair. It's like a very symbolic thing. Yeah. Yeah,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: and within most indigenous nations and tribes, hair is not
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: does not equate gender like at all. Maybe certain styles might,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: but having long hair does not equal feminine or masculine really,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: which was a very weird thing for me growing up,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: um whatever, Like all these non native boys would grow
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: up their hairs and being like rebellious and I'm like, okay,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: well you're barely washing it. So I don't know really
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: saying anything, but because with native boys, native boys, native
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: men take usually take really good care of here, the
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: same way you know most women are expected to. Um.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, So one thing I noticed too in the
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: movie is that Arnold basically never lets his hair grow
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: back out, um, And I think that symbolizes his continuing
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: morning and also his continued guilt. Right. Yeah, that's kind
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: of the symbolism of the hair, is that it's basically
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: an extension of us. I was wondering that about Arnold
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: because that I think that either it's Thomas's narration or
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Victor points it out that his that his dad never
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: grew his hair back and that being a significant that's
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: thank you for for sharing that, and and and then
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: it's like that. I guess that is that screenwriting is
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: at the end of the second act. But when when
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Victor finally cuts his hair and kind of that simbolizes
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: that he's accepted his dad's death to some extent. I mean,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I think someone here has a master's agree in this right.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: I would never mention it, but I do have a
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. I wasn't really
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: examining the movie through a structural point of view, but yeah,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: that does feel around the end of the second act. Yeah, yeah,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: before we move on to the second act, I just
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: or past that. I do just want to recognize the
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: anties and the car. They're so iconic and again adding
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: to how funny we are. Yes, um, oh my gosh,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I just I love them so much. I just wanted
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: to give them more attention real quick before. I mean,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: they deserve all the show. Let's let's talk about that,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: because I wish that I was one of the only
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Because also, this movie is so like economical in the
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: way it tells the story, like it's a tight ninety minutes.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: But I was I was kind of hoping that they
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: would come back again. I was bummed. I mean, although
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: it's like the story reaches such a perfect full circle
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: where you see them return home, you see Victor give
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Arnold ashes to our lean, you see um Grandma reunite
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: with Thomas. I love how much they look alike. I
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: just I love them. But I was just hoping that
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: we would see the two women in the car again
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: and get one more radio station shoutout because I loved
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: the radio station sequences are so funny. There's so many
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: fun motifs. Yeah, the traffic slash weather report on KRAS radio.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Loved that. Love that, like fry bread is a motif
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: in the movie. Love that. Denny's is a motif in
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: the movie. Love that, Just like Thomas telling a story
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: to anyone who will listen, and sometimes to people who
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: don't want to listen, and then always Victor saying, you're
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: full of ship. That's not what happened. They're Also, this
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: movie is like just chock full of well known Native
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: actors and well known Native people. So the radio host
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: is named Alex Trudel, and he's like a really well
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: known poet in the Native community, so it's always really
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: fun hearing him. And then almost all the actors have
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: gone on to do both Native Native projects and all
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: native projects. The Father Arnold. He is a reoccurring character
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: in Reservation Dogs, and he is so funny. Adam Beach
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: is probably the more well known name from this movie.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I think the most recent big project he was in
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: that I can think of right now was Suicide Squad
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: from a few years ago. Yeah. I was about to
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: say he's like Mr Superhero. Yeah. Um. Michael gray Eyes
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: has a very short cameo. He's one of the basketball
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: players in the first movie. One of the dreamiest people ever.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: He has done several movies and right now he is
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: a lead in Rutherfruit Falls. So it's just really it fun.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: But like if I haven't watched this movie actually a
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: couple of years, so watching it again and I'm like, oh,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: they're in this now, They're in this now. And the
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: mom Tattoo Cardinal, she again has done so many projects.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: She's very well known. So these are all like very
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: seasoned actors now, and so it's just really exciting to
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: back then. This is probably one of their first roles
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: and they have really all like blown up in the industry,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: you know. So it's really and this was Chris Ayre's
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: first feature that he directed and co produced. I want
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: to just pull a quote from him that he said
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: at a screening of another of his films entitled Skins,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: where he said, quote, the only thing you get in
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: making period pieces about Indians is guilt. I'm interested in
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: doing what non Indian filmmakers can't do, which is portray
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: contemporary Indians. And that's something that he seems to be
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: very out like passionate about, and he talks about this
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: a lot. Because I also watched a YouTube video ever
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: heard of it from the a f I entitled A
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Conversation with Chris Ayer Native American Identity in the Movies,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: in which he talks about the representation of Native people
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: in film, how historically it has been extremely harmful and stereotypical.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: He talks about how he approaches representation in his own filmmaking.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: He talks about how to represent Native characters responsibly, especially
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: if you're a non Native person wanting to include Native
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: people in your stories. So it's really interesting. Um, it's
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: like an hour long. We can link it in the description,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: But I love how passionate he is about his storytelling
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: and his his filmmaking and representation and he just seems
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: like a really cool dude. Yeah. I actually, whenever I
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: was on this episode, I had a memory comeback. I've
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: actually met him really cool. Yeah, uh, many many years ago.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: When I was in high school, I attended a summer
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: camp at high School Indian Nations University in Lawrence, Kansas,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: and he was one of the speakers one of the days.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: And Um, I was fairly shy as a fourteen year old,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: but I still got the gump shin to go up
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: and talk to him. I didn't know what to ask him.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: He was really nice, he was pretty chill. But what
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I do remember is him like not being very impressed
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: by me because I was like, how do you make
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: a movie? And he was like, just do it, figure
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: it out, kid. I was like, alright. He was Also
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I was naming big name actors and completely forgot Disney
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Princess Irene Ballard, who voice Poka Hottest. Yes, of course
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: a movie you have yet to scale in, uh in
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: the purview of this show. But I knew, I mean
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: as a child who saw Pocahona's quite a bit. You
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: know her voice right away and she's I mean, every
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: performance in this movie is really good. Um, but she's like,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I honestly was, I forgot how what a short amount
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: of time she's in the movie, especially because she's like
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: on the poster, she's like the center part of the poster.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: She's framed like she's the protagonist. Um right, which is
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I mean? But but like, her performances is so good
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: and just I don't know, the performances are great. To
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: put a button on the on the Chris Air stuff,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I was, um, I'm very excited to watch that talk
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: and also like, I mean, he's still very much like
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: a working director. He was like thirty when he made
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: this movie, and he's made like ten movies since. And
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I was excited to learn more about his career. And
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: I wonder, Um, I mean, I want him to get
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: access to like bigger budgets and projects if that's the
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: sort of stuff that he wants to be doing. I
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: don't really know what, you know, where he wants to stick.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: But I would love to see a huge budget Chris
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Air movie that would give him a Marvel movie or
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: whatever he wants. I feel like Marvel movies waste good directors.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: I don't really I wouldn't wish that time on him,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: but if he wants it, then he should happen. Sure,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and we'll come back for
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: a more discussion, and we're back. I wanted to talk
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: about the I mean, one of the this movie does
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: play into a joke we make on the show a lot,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: which is that ultimately every movie is about fathers and sons. Literally,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: at the end, I heard your voice say that. I
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: was like, that's right. It's every movie me on the
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: face of the planet is about a father and a son.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: And that is just a rule of movies that we
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: cannot break. But in this I mean, in the case
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: of this movie, this happens to be a really really
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: good movie about fathers and sons. And so I wasn't mad,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: But I just like, there's so many smaller themes um
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: some of them culturally specific, some of them universal. But
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I I don't think I've seen a movie in a
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: long time, at least that explores something as complicated as
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: grieving someone who hurt you as thoughtfully as this movie does.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: And it's not to say that like the way that
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Victor and Thomas grieve and process are correct. There's obviously
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: no correct way to grieve, but all of the nuances,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: especially the way that information is introduced in this movie,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: where you know very early on that Arnold is holding
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: something like holding onto a lot of rama, and so
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: it's like this kind of back and forth of like
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, you know, you really feel for this character.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: He's clearly in a lot of pain, but then you
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: see him physically abuse his family and you're like, well,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: fuck this guy, and then you get more information. Like
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: I thought that the way the movie is paced and written,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: and the way that Victor and Thomas sort of approach,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: like there's just so much going on, like and how
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: how am I going to process this and acknowledge and
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: make space for my own abuse and healing which you
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: can never make okay, but can you get to a
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: point where you can forgive? For some people that's going
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: to be yes, for some people that's going to be nope.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: But I just like, I don't know. I was I
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: was crying a lot even through the wig. I was crying, crying, crying,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: just watching two very specific characters try to make their
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: peace with such a complicated paternal figure his death, especially
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: because I mean, I think one of the things we
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: always make fun of all these movies being about fathers
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: and sons, is that there's such an oversimplification of like
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: complex family dynamics in a lot of these movies where
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: it will be like a dad is a crappy dad,
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: and so he has to become Santa Claus in order
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: to redeem himself. And I yes, I am specifically referring
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: to the Santa Claus because that's always comes back, always
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: another famous Denny's motif in American cinema, it's an American institution,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: American institute. But with this one, I think it's just
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: like you said, Jamie, It's just it's handled in such
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: a way that it just feels like a compelling story
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: and not another like trophy movie where like, oh my god,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I'm a son or I'm a father and I need
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: to figure this out in the like least nuanced way possible.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: So like those are the movies that that I make
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: fun of, this one it explores things meaningfully, It examines
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: the character's emotions. I'd like that you see these two
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: extremely different approaches to grief and reconciliation that Victor and
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Thomas have, where like Thomas is um, yeah, it does
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: seem to hold Arnold up on a on a pedestal,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: and because he sees him as his savior, he owes
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: his life to him, so he hit a lot of
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: his views towards him are informed by that, but he
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: also recognizes like, yeah, this guy left his family, whereas
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Victor is just like pretty straightforward. Victor is a no
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: bullshit guy, Like stories are fake. You're like every time
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: someone tells Victor a story, he's like, shut up, that's
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: your shit. Um, And yeah, he's just he's harboring a
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: lot of resentment in a way that like I could
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: certainly identify with. And it's you know, very understandable and
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: like we said, there's no right or wrong way to
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: grieve or to forgive. And I think a lot of
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: what really resonated with me at least was the voice
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: over at the end, and I wish I had written
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: it down, But it's when Thomas is saying, like, how
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: do we forgive our fathers? Do we forgive them for
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: doing this or doing the exact opposite of that, And
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: it's just like a lot of he's just listing off
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: different behaviors and and uh and ends with a question
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: to like it, it doesn't tell you that there's one
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: right way for this to happen. I felt very like
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: strongly connected to like Thomas's instinct to want to I
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: also sort of like interpreted Thomas's behavior of like sometimes
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: it is easier to remember someone who who hurt you
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: and hurt people around you as this like heightened mythic superhero,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: which Thomas clearly wants superhero figures in his life. He's
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: constantly talking about superheroes. He has that whole speech before
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Victor Chuck's is Canteen into the grass about like, you know,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: we don't have a Superman, we don't have a Batman,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: we don't have a wonder Woman. And so just seeing him,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: you know, in some ways I felt like elevated Arnold
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: to this superhero that existed in his life. Well it's
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: like he does. But then you find out at the
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: end he knows, like he's aware that Arnold was not
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: a superhero. But I don't know, sometimes you've got to
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: tell yourself stories to get through the day, and that's
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: a huge part of grieving. And and the fact that
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: they managed to make this funny and like interesting to
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: watch is just so wild. Yeah, if I could also
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: like provide a little historical context to you. I know,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I kind of brought up in green schools, but there
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: are two things in play that I think can kind
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: of help because another stereotype growing up was that me
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: and my family were a bunch of drunk Indians, right,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: which is kind of shown in the movie whenever they
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: have parties. That was actually seeing that hits really hard
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: for me, is Victor as a young kid around all
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: of these drunk adults. For me, that's one of the
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: harder scenes to watch because that was something that happened,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: and I don't think a lot of people understand how
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: that generation got there. Um, So just to provide like
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: old context. Boarding schools, I'm sure most of our audience
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: knows were instituted by the US government to assimilate Native people,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: but one of the driving forces of doing that was
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: through religion. So what they did is not only assimilate
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: these kids and you know, taking kids from their homes.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: It's already in like the eighteen sixties. That's like when
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: the first boarding school opened, and then within a couple
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: of decades they were all over the country. The use
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: of religion and boarding schools I think ended around the sixties,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: and that is because is Over those centuries, the U.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: S Government, along with other state governments, made it illegal
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: for Native Americans to practice their religion at all. Um.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: You could be arrested, you can be tried, and we
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: put in prison. So not only do we have these
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: generations that didn't grow up with their culture, we have
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: the generations that were forced to not speak their culture.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: And then you have the generation after that grew up
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: without culture and identity. Um, and that's very traumatizing. I
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: am very lucky because my mom did not My mom
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: and my nana did not grow up with that. My
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: nana didn't go my mom's mom didn't go to boarding school,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: but my grandpa did, and my nana's aunts went to
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: boarding school, and so I grew up with those stories.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: But when you have no when your culture has been stripped,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: when religion has been stripped, when your whole way of
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: life has been stripped, then you're put into these desolate
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: areas of the country where you have no previous religious
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: ties to the land. What else are you gonna do?
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: You're also they were provided too, with virtually no food.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: So while the fried bred story is fun, we have
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: fry bread because the government essentially gave Natives flower and
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: water to survive off of. So even fry bred still
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: has like a tinge of kind of sadness to it.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: So of course there's going to be generations of people
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: that without that identity, what are they turned to? And
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of them turned to alcohol. People always say
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: that Natives have a gene for alcoholism and that that we're
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: prone to it, and I disagree. I think that when
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: you have all of that stripped away from you, it's
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: hard to not turn to anything else. Um, So I
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: just wanted to kind of provide that because y'all are right,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: the story of the father's son is so relatable, and
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: this is just an extra layer on top of that
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: of how they ended up here, right, And like similar
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: to a discussion we have a lot on the podcast
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: about how oftentimes, like, for example, when men write two
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: female characters in competition and they hate each other and
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: their petty because that's what they've observed, but they don't
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: explore at all why that might be, or why women
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: might feel as though they need to compete with each other.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: It's just like all of that context is something that
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: they either don't understand or can't see or anything like that.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: The same way that, yes, there is the stereotype of
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: the drunk Indian in media, and that's just been put
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: on film and put a TV and stuff without any
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: exploration of, Okay, well, why might a Native person be
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: abusing substances? Could it be all the trauma you put
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: them through? Perhaps that that's very helpful context. Thank you
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: for providing that. And yeah, and and that just speaks
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: to when you have a native filmmaker who is the
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: one like handling the characters and handling the culture, it's
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: obviously going to be presented in a way that's way
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: more informed and responsible than someone who doesn't understand all
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: the context and all the nuances of everything. And it's
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: obviously why this movie is so interesting and compelling and
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: thought provoking and kind of speaking to that. And and
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: like with that context, I feel like it's even more.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: It makes me appreciate even more that the movie, again
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: like very seamlessly gives you a range of experiences with
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: how people are dealing with alcohol abuse. Where in the
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: case of Arnold, I mean you can argue, I mean,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: obviously his abuse of alcohol resulted in a lot of tragedy,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: but I do like that you get to see you
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: learned by the end that he was clean and sober.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I like that, Um, And that also kind of brings
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: up we haven't really talked that much about Arlene outside
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: of the fried Bred story of quite yet, but how
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: when Arlene sees explicitly how much they're abusing alcohol is
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: traumatizing and negatively affecting Victor when he's throwing the bottles
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: at the truck and he's very you know, triggered and upset.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: That that is like her you know, lightbulb moment of
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: like it has to end now, like we can't do
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: this or we're going to like destroy our relationship with
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: our son. And to see that moment and to see
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: that be a moment that ultimately bonds her and Victor,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: I thought was like really really powerful. And Yeah, if
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: anyone grew up with an alcoholic parent, it's a moment
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: that you're like, oh, where was that. That's it's very
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: cathartic too. And also, you know, Victor is basically raised
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: by his mom from childhood until adulthood. UM, Thomas is
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: raised by his grandma, and that is very reflective of
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: how it actually does happen in the Native community. A
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: lot of times it is the women that take care
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: of the community, not to like shoot on them in
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: but have you ever heard our podcast before? There are
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: many Native bit of my life that I love and appreciate,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: but they would even agree that it is almost always
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Native women, Native aunties and grandmas and moms that take
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: care of the community and that really helped keep us together.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: So it's a very cathartic moment. Yeah, when Arlene was like,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: we can't do this anymore. Um. And also to you know,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: the night before they asked him who his favorite Indian
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: is and he said note one, and you know, so
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: there was a very like I really appreciated that scene
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: because I feel like it kind of had some resolution
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: even though we're only halfway through the movie at that point.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: You know, it kind of created a resolution a little
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: bit for Victor, right, And then when you get that
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: part when Thomas is arguing with Victor and saying like, yeah,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I I realized that your dad left your mom, but
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: so did you, and you did the worst version of
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: it because you still live in the same house with her,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: but you're just not there emotionally. And I hope that
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Victor takes that to heart and when he goes back home,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: he like really puts in some effort with with his mom,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: and like it's implied that it does happen. They have
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: that moment. I think another thing that I wanted to
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: talk about was the various references to the characters kind
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: of calling attention to how they are overlooked in American history,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: how they are mistreated by white people, how they are
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: perceived as unwelcome foreigners on their own land. A few
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: examples of this would be when the two women in
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: the reverse car, they like drop them off of the
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: bus station and then like, do you have your passports
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: because you're leaving the res and going to a whole
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: different country, and they're like, what are you talking about.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: We're still in the United States. And then the woman
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: is like, yeah, that's as foreign as it gets, Like
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: I hope you got your vaccinations. And there's mention of
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: them celebrating that Fourth of July party to celebrate white
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: people's independence. There's the two white men on the bus
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: who steal their seats and displace them, And I mean,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: what is that but a very small scale allegory for
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: like the displacement and colonization of Native people in the US.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: There's also that speech, right that's in the middle of
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: a Thomas monologue, um, that same Canteen scene where he's
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: just kind of like referencing the anxiety of being displaced.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: He like mentions Aumbus and Custer, and then kind of
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: ended by saying like, even if we, you know, like
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: set up on the moon, Neil Armstrong would come along
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: and like kick us out, and and and the way
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: that it just like factors into conversation in this very
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: matter of fact way, um, I thought was like so
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: effective and good for sure. Yeah, well, because they are
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: like major differences between Native world and white world, and
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: that's how it feels. It's as very strong feeling that
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: I think one of the bigger examples for me personally
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: is that in my nation, women are expected to be
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: leaders and you're expected to like hold leadership positions and
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: you're expected through a lot of expectations. And then outside
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: of that, right, h So outside of that is the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: patriarchy and not saying there isn't like sexism within the
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Native community that is influenced almost exclusively though by white
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: people and Christianity and all of that. That's not something
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: that inherently came from us, So, yeah, it's a it's
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: a big difference in growing up. It was always a
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: little weird having to go between the two different worlds
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: because it's really what it feels like. Yeah, yeah, I
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: just I thought all that was very effective, just like
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: the characters touching on it and reminding anyone who's watching
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: who's probably not familiar with the way that white culture
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: has affected and continues to affect indigenous people. Those parts
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: of the movie um very effectively done. Does anyone have
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: any other thoughts about the movie? We haven't really talked
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: about Susie. Yes, Yeah, I love Susie. I did too,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: I really like, I mean, and I do, like selfishly
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I wish that she was in the movie more, but
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: I also understand why she appears when she does and why.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: And I also like I didn't really remember because I
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: think I got like gas lit by the poster where
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I think she's in the rest of
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: the movie, when like that's not the case, and I
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: was sort of like, oh, is this going to be
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: a forced love story? I kind of forget, I don't
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: really remember, and I really like that it does not
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: go that way where Susie appears. I think almost exactly
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: halfway through the movie, she's Arnold's friend, another person like
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Arnold was a vaguely paternal figure to a lot of people,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: including his own son Um. But but it this seems
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: like and and there are a few bizarre asides where
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: you know, she says, like, your dad was a good
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: looking guy. He gave me the eye a little bit,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: and it's like, but it but it wasn't like that.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: It would like ever and I think the movie makes
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: that very clear. But like he became this just like
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, like I I always am really drawn
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: to and I feel like it's never presented as a
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: a tonic friendship between a man and a woman, but
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: like two lonely people who become friends because of their
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: shared loneliness, even if they don't have, you know, a
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: ton in common like they do. I mean, they had
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: some shared culture and they were alone. And like just
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: the way that that friendship is characterized and fleshed out,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: and like how much it really clearly meant to Susie
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: and how much she really wanted to get across how
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Arnold had grown in his final years to his son
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: in an attempt to kind of like at least, I
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: don't even know if it's like it's helping grieve, but
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: like grieve with all the facts. I guess, which makes
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: sense because Victor, like the whole movie, wants facts, but
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: then when he's confronted with facts, he's like, I don't know,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's just which just such a yeah,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: You're like, did I say I want it back? So
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: I don't, because for me, it's the conflict of like, yeah,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: I'm glad he's sober. I'm glad he's sobered up, but
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: he never went back. But it's like if he had
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: gone back too soon, he still would have been an
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: absent father. So I think that's also what makes Thomas's
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: monologue at the end so point in it's like, basically,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: he did so much wrong it's hard to know what
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: would have been the right move. But and I also
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: kind of feel the victor at the end. Every time
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: I watched the ending of the movie, my feeling is
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: towards Arnold is different every time. Um, sometimes I'm more
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: forgiving and then sometimes I'm more angry than i am forgiving,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: And I think that kind of speaks to the effectiveness
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: of how they portray Arnold and all the different viewpoints
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: we get on him through Victor and Thomas and even
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Arnold himself and how he views himself because of the
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: conversation between the two of them about what's the worst
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: thing you've ever done? Okay, sure, coming in hot there,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: I think that she's like it was one of the
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: first times we ever hung out. Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I feel I feel similarly conflicted about Arnold, because I mean,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: obviously nothing excuses abuse, but Arnold clearly loved his son.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: He was a victim of his circumstances of you know,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: living in the cycle of poverty on a reservation, you know, again,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: the generational trauma. The it's also implied that he was
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: and I can't because it was a story Thomas was telling,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: so I don't know, like how inflated any of the
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: details were, But it is implied that he spent some
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: time in jail also, like, which is a whole other
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: trauma to have to deal with later in life. Yeah.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: The other thing about Susie is that, And I think
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: it's just because I've been so conditioned by movies to
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: assume that if you get attractive young people in the
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: same square mall, they will kiss. So I was like, Oh,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: for sure, either Thomas or Victor are gonna kiss Susie
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: before they leave, and that never happens, which I also
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: found very refreshing. Susie's alone Wolf Baby, She's I love,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love where they leave her story to
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: where like she's you know, it's not her movie, but
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: you do get to see like she ends by burning
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: down Arnold's trailer and kind of this symbolic gesture, and
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: then she moves on and it's like she's on her
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: She's on a whole personal journey of grieving this very
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: complicated person as well. I just I love that the
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: movie like takes that moment to let you know where
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: she lands, because they feel like a lesser movie would
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: be like, Okay, this character has served her purpose, so let's,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: you know, move along. I also like this is such
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: a small all thing, and again I feel like just
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: a demonstration of like how many scraps um were forced
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: to look for in uh women characters. But we immediately
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: find out what she does for a living, and we
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: immediately find out background facts about her like Victors, like Okay,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: so where are you from? Like how did you grow up?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: What do you do? Like just stuff you usually don't
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: find out about women in movies. Ever, Um, you find
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: out that she was a nurse, but now she works
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: in health care administration. She travels a lot. It's exciting,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: but it's lonely. She grew up in New York, which
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: is already like five hundred times more than you learn
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: about some women who are the protagonist of a movie.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Like I just was like wow, and and like such
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: a beautiful performance from Irene Bedard, and I just love
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: Susie And I know, like I self like we were saying,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: I selfishly wish she was in it longer, but but
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like the time that she is in the
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: movie is so respectful of who she is and like
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: gives you a full picture of who she is. And
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: so I wasn't ultimately like I don't know, like piste
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: off or extremely bothered that she wasn't in it more.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: I would have liked it. But but if like the
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: time she's on screen is he's really really thoughtfully. I
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: think same applies to Thomas's grandmother and who's I don't
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: think we ever learned her first name, but um, and
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: and Arlene as well her yeah, and Victor's mom Arlene
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: where we don't get all that much screen time with them,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: but when we do, the storytelling and the character development
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: is so effective and economical that you, you know, you
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: understand these characters, you feel their struggle. Yeah, you're just
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: you're compelled by their presence on screen. So so it
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: ultimately is a movie about fathers and sons. However, it's
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: unlike many movies about fathers and sons. The women who
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: are in the movie are fully realized characters that have
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: kind of a whole range of viewpoints and generations and like,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of variety in the women that we see,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: and then there are moments that are about mothers and
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: sons and grandmothers and sons. And even if it's not
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: the thrust of the movie, I appreciate that it's there. Indeed,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: I just wish there was more. Yeah, that's kind of
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: kind of my only critique. I do. I agree. I
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: wish we had gotten more time with Susie. I also
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: wish for not wish. I think that the story could
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: have still been effective even without her being like and
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: he used to eye me like, I don't know that
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: has every time I watched that, I'm just like I
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: could do with that, especially with the I know we're
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: not talking about the Sherman Alexei stuff, but I was like, yeah, ye,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: should we talk about the Sherman Alexey? I mean maybe
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: just to mention that I think it was in I'm
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: guessing in light of me too. He was accused of
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: sexual harassment by multiple women, many people. Yeah, it's very
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: disappointing because I have read several of his books and
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: they were very relatable and very important to me. So
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: it's very disappointing whatever stuff like that happens. So just
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: why you know, Uh, But yeah, back to Susie, Um,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: I just wish we would have had more of her.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: I also liked the way the conversation ran, because again
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: it's kind of how conversations with a lot of elders
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: girl like who are you, where you're from, who's your family?
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Not quite what's the worst thing you've
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: ever done? But I liked the familiarity in their interaction
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: and whatever she did interact with Thomas and Victor. I
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: think in the beginning maybe it was like maybe a
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: little flirtatious, you could argue that, but it also felt like, um,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: cousins at one point like they had become so familiar
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: because they have a shared relative between the three of
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: them essentially, So I liked that feeling of it as well.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: So well, I do wish we had more of her.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: I think her time in the film was very effective.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I'm very memorable too, for sure. Yeah. Does anyone have
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: any other thoughts they'd like to share. I'm just so
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: happy that you guys watched this film, and hopefully after
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: this episode more people will go watch it and support
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: native films and TV shows. We're coming out, you know.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, And this movie is streaming on Showtime right now.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: So if you're running your damn mouth about Yellow Jackets,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: you gotta watch Smoke Signals because I'm not watching Yellow Jackets.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: I'm tired. Yes, please check out this movie. If you've
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: listened to the episode and you haven't already seen it,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: give it a watch. Other indigenous filmmakers and creators check
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: out their stuff, check out their their media and their art.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: And yeah, this is Smoviie pass the Becktel test. It
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: definitely passes the Bechtel test. But do do does it that?
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: My question is, do we ever find out what the
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: names of the women in the car are Oh, that's
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: a good question, because their names IMDb. But you're right,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: I don't remember if anybody says their names to them.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: I think that they so that caveat, and I'm always like, oh, well,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: that usually means is it. Is it a character who
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: is only on screen for like five seconds and they
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: say like two words kind of thing. They have a
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: full extended scene and are like significant enough. I'm willing
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: to give it a pass. I'm just saying, it's not
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: hard to say someone's name. Um, sure, Yeah, I think
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: on IMDb, is it Lucy and Velma? So those are
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: those characters names acording to IMDb, yet don't I don't
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: think they're said aloud in the film, but they are
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: given names in the script presumably, so I would say
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: that counts. And they have a whole conversation about drinking
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: cokes and and they're just vibing. They're vibing in the car.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: It's really fun. I feel it. It also passes the
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: ALT task absolutely. Shout out to the ALT test. Shout
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: out to Ali Noddy And as far as our nipple
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: scale goes zero to five nipples. Based on an examination
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: of the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, I would say,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: even though this is a story focused on male characters
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: and their relationship, like the core narrative is about like
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: a reconciliation between different male characters, that's okay for a
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: movie to be about that if if you do it well,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: and you do it like and if you examine that thoughtfully.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: So even though women are not necessary the driving force
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: of the story doesn't really bother me in this or
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: a movie like this, where it's well written and in
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: a well crafted story, That's what I like to see
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: more movies driven by Native women. It's not the job
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: of one movie to do everything, obviously, but definitely would
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: like to see more and more of that as well. Certainly. Um,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: even so, I think that this movie is just really
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: compelling and that it is, like I said, a movie
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: that either lets some people see themselves represented on screen
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: in a very meaningful and thoughtful way, and for other
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: people it's a chance to let them learn about a
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: culture that they might not already be familiar with. So yeah,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's fantastic, And I'll give the movie. I'll
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: give it four nipples, and I will give one two
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: Susie Song. I will give one two Thomas's grandma, I
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: will give one to Arlene, and I'll split the last
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: one between our friends Velma and Lucy. In the car
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: driving backwards, Um, I will go. I'll go for as well.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just this movie is so wonderful for
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: such a wide variety of reasons. We were having a
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: conversation last night about like movies that are very very
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: watchable and rewatchable, and this movie is so watchable and
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: manages to tackle so much and if you are not
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: familiar with a lot of Native culture, not to say
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: that it's um, you know, it's obviously very regionally specific,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: but I feel like there's a lot that non nat
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: To viewers can learn. Well, there's like it's just there's
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: there's just so many good things going on in this movie.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: And it's also really fucking fun in spite of a
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: lot of the heavier themes. The performances rock. I love Thomas,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: I love Susie. I mean, did I text I texted
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: you that Thomas aka the actor Evan Adams is like
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: a dead ringer for a guy I used to date,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: and so I like the second I saw him on screen,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, I have a crush on him already
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: and he hasn't said a single word anyway. Sorry to
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: interrupt to talk about my heterosexual crush boring, but that said,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Evan Adams is uh my head or a sexual crush.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: So any ways, uh kaylie, I mean I think we've
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: we've we've covered it. I mean, I'll dock get a
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: nipple because I do think that there was a little
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: more space to include Susie a little more. Uh, wouldn't
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I killed the movie to include the names of the
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: women driving backward in the car, little things like that,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: And I think there was room for for women a
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: little more in this movie. But the story that is
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: told is so beautiful and does include women pretty significantly,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: And it's just I don't know, just like a very
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to selve me on a movie
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: that's ultimately about fathers and sons, but this is this
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: movie is like undeniable because it tackles the topic so
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: thoughtfully and it's such an emotional journey. Um. And I
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: think that there is a lot to be said for
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: the men feeling their feelings and processing emotions in movies.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: You don't get a lot of movies that are about
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: men processing their emotions towards each other, like without beating
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: each other. Well, I guess young Victor does. They were kids,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: but then they grow and then they have this beautiful
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: emotional And I also appreciate that at the end it's
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: not implied that they're going to be best friends. Now.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: I always feel like it's kind of like goofy when
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: it's like two people who are they're not going to
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: like hang out every day, but they're good. They've they're
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: like they've made their peace with each other. They'll always
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: have love for each other, even though it's not like
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: we're not going to chill every day. Though, you know,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: like I played basketball together all the time. Thomas has
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: to go do Thomas things. He's busy, especially trying on suits.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: He has more suities to wear. I'll go for nipples
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna, yeah, give one to each of the
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: women driving backwards. I'm gonna give one to Susie and
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give one to Thomas Olivia. How about you?
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: So I also agree with the four nipples. I think
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: I only dock a nipple because while the women are
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: portrayed in a very nuanced way, in circular way, Um,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: you know in real life women talk to each um
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: and not only famously. I have to see it to
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: believe it. But uh, not only joy which Susie had
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: more time, but I think there would have also been
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: room to see Grandma and Arlene talk to each other, definitely,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: just because to me it feels more realistic either talking
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: about their kids, are talking about aren't or just gossiping
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: like that's That's the only reason why I want to
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: give it a full five nipple maybe, like you know what,
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: I'm wouna do a four and a half because this
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: is also a nostalgic movie for me, it holds a
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: very easier place in my heart. Um So I'm gonna
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: do four and a half. I'm gonna give to to
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: Grandma because we love the grandma's in our community. I'm
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: gonna give one to Arlene because she work in real hard,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: and then one to Victor, one to Thomas, and then
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: the half to Victor. Love it. I don't think you
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: can Victor any Yeah, Victor was, he was hurting. Thanks
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: for helping him out. Also, so as you can tell,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: I don't have the same accent they do because I
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: grew up on that reservation. But super quick story. Uh,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: a year and a half ago, I auditioned for a
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: radio play that wanted to do that type of accents.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: So you know how like whatever you try to do
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: an accent, you have a phrase that you do a
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: Victor and I was just going around my house Victor Victor.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: I love the every time they would say a sentence
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: and then say ain't it And it's a little kind
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: of like vocal filler. Also shout out to my favorite
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: joke of the whole movie where Victor comes into cash's
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: check from his mom. Thomas is, it's like in a
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: like a store, a market. Thomas was there and he says, Oh,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to hear about your dad, And Victor
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: is like, how did you hear about that? And he's like,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: I heard it on the wind, I felt it in
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: the sunlight, I heard it in the trees. And also
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: your mom wasn't here crying about it. Also my favorite
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: joke to um well, Olivia, thank you so much for
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: join us and being here to talk about this movie.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: It was such a delight. Where can people check you
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: out on social media if there's anything else you'd like
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: to plug plug away? Absolutely, thank you for having me
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: on this is so much fun. Um. As you can tell,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: I love this movie, so I'm always willing to talk
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: about it. Um. You can follow me on all socials, Twitter, Instagram,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: TikTok um. Here's your name is the same across all three.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: It is at Live Native ninety three. That is L
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: I V and A t I V E nine three. Um.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: And I also am a content writer for a tribe
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: called geek website. I recommend checking out. They have partnered
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: with Red Planet, which also produces like common Indigenous comic books.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: So we just had like a really fun, fun meeting
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: about a week ago just discuss our goals. So I
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: recommend checking that out if you want to know about
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Native maybea and comic books and movies and all that
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: fun stuff. So yeah, tried call dot com incredible. I
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: supposed to shout out one more fun fact that we
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: didn't I did. I didn't find a moment to touch on.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: But Evan Adams, who plays Thomas, he's a doctor now
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: he's but he still does bit parts in movies. But
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: he went to medical school in two thousand and two,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: so like a couple years. Because I was like, why
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: haven't I seen him in more we talked about all
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: of the actors who really blew up. And it's not
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: for any lack of any I mean, he just became
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: a doctor and as often he is the chief Medical
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: Officer of the First Nation's Health Authority in British Columbia,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: so he's like an s TR doctor, so shouts out
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: even he contains multitudes. Wow, yeah, that makes me feel
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: not great about my accomplishments. I'm not a doctor yet,
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: but no. Seriously, um, Olivia, thank you so much for
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: being here. Come back any time, and you can follow
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: us on social media at spectel Cast on Twitter and Instagram.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: You can go to our Matreon gets you two episodes
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: a month. You get access to the back catalog of
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: all the episodes and that could be found at patreon
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: dot com slash Bechtel Cast, and you can get our
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: merch at the public dot com slash the Becktel Cast
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: if you're so inclined. And with that, let's get in
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: the pickup truck and go home to mommy room room
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Zoom zoom, by bye.