Latest / Beheaded / The Romanov Court: Romance & Ruin | Mary Hamilton

Transcript

The Romanov Court: Romance & Ruin | Mary Hamilton · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to season seven, episode five.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm Megan Moore.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Good evening.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Hi.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Are you still a little stuffy tonight, Megan?
0:17
SPEAKER_02: Man, I gotta apologize.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: When I was editing our last episode on the Bisbee, Arizona massacre, I I know my voice is annoying.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm nasally.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm a little nasally, but it was a perfect episode for that because it was about I couldn't even listen to this to myself.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: I I just wanted to blow my nose.
0:37
SPEAKER_02: So we're actually only a week apart.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: So I apologize.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: We're trying to get all these episodes out, and I I'm still nasally, but I'm fine.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: It's all um, it's all visual or auditory.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: What does that mean?
0:50
SPEAKER_02: What?
0:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't feel bad.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't like I don't feel sick.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: I just sound sick.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: It's one of those where it's like it sounds worse than it is kind of thing.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: But like, you know what, things always happen for reasons.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: You do.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: I was really stressed out about I shared in the last episode that I need to have a little surgical procedure coming up.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: And I was really stressed out about being sick for it.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: Or not like sick, but yeah.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: I have a cough.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting over a cold.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't sound great.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: You want to be like fit for a procedure like that.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: And you have to be like I'm having neck surgery.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: So like sorry.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: I you can laugh.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Not to laugh.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: You can laugh.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: But like I can't go under anesthesia and also like be on mu mucinex.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: They just won't.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: They can't do all that.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Like, I have to be healthy.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: So, um, anyways, conveniently enough, I made this big ordeal in the last episode, like, oh, we won't be recording for a while, and I'm gonna be on a hiatus.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, and they pushed the surgery back a month.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: That seems like so dangerous to do when it's not.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, I know it's not, and like obviously they're doctors, they know.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: But when Megan texted me, she's like, Oh, they rescheduled my surgery for a month later.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: I immediately called her and I was like, Are you okay?
2:04
SPEAKER_00: What?
2:05
SPEAKER_00: I was like, they need to get this done now.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: This is important.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've had this tumor for a while.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: It's not going anywhere, it's fine, it's just chilling.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: You named it, right?
2:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: I actually, our friend Lisa, Dr.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: Lisa named her name is Duchess.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Duchess is beautiful.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: She's um, you know, she's proud.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: She's coming out into her own.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: And she's gonna be gone real soon.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna throw a little going-away party for Duchess this weekend.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, but all that said, and it wasn't my choice to change the surgery.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: Evidently, they couldn't find a surgical assistant.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: That's a thing.
2:41
SPEAKER_02: We were all busy.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Um encouraging.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is this is like what Anne Boleyn must have felt like when they just kept pushing the date back of the execution.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: For real.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Like get that French swordsman here.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: What are they doing?
2:53
SPEAKER_00: I also noticed I keep saying swords like on the podcast.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Swords.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't say like that in real life.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Say it?
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I say it normal when I'm just like speaking in real life.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: I say sword.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: But for some reason when I say swordsman on the podcast, I keep saying swordsman and it sounds weird.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Just if you notice that.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: It's like when you overthink the word swordsman.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: Swordsman.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: I know how to say it.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: I just like I noticed I kept saying it where it's like a sword, but I know how to say it and I know I know what it looks like.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: I know how to spell it.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: We know what it is.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, that's all I've got going on.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Just trying to figure out dates, but I'm here.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm here, and I'm here for a little bit longer until I'm decapitated and well, Duchess is going away.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: Duchess is going away.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: And we will miss her dearly.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: We will.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: I I am very sad though, because because the surgery is pushed back, it's like right when I'm gone for over a week.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: You've got several trips coming up.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have you guys know this if you're longtime listeners, but every spring I do a few uh full marathons.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: A few.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm a runner.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: We're not exaggerating.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: A few.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: I do I try to do three every spring.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: So I train in the winter months in Arizona, and then I knock like three out in a row so that way I don't have to keep training for multiple races.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm gonna be in Jackson, Mississippi, which I've never been there.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: If anyone has any recs to do there, I have no clue.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're flying to Jackson, Mississippi the day before your surgery.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm gonna be like in the South, like we're doing a big old road trip from Jackson all the way to like Virginia Beach, um, where my final marathon of the season is.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: It's in Newport News, Virginia.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm gonna be like missing your initial weeks at home.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Well, you're gonna see me with looking disgusting and rotting on the couch and being all droopy and I wanted to wait on you.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: On Duchess, bring you trays of I don't know what you can eat.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Sweet meats.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: You can't eat that, right?
4:42
SPEAKER_00: You can have like milkshakes, I don't know.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Cottage cheese and oatmeal.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: It's lovely.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: It's so good.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm excited for your trip.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, and this is remind us what number marathon because you're going to Alabama first.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: I am.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Two weeks to Alabama, and then a month after that is uh Mississippi and Virginia.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't even care anymore.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so this is marathon number 24, 25, and 26.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, and now you're officially over the halfway point.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: 50.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: One and 50 states.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: 50 and 50 states before I'm 50 is the goal.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we talk about, you know, and it's good that we talk about this frequently because you have to visualize.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and make your goals known so that everyone can bug you about it.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: And then when you you know, when you do get to that 50th, we're all gonna be there to celebrate because we know how far you've come and all that you've done.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: And if you don't, then we'll give you a really hard time.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: But I know you all.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: I know you all.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get it done.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Whether I have to crawl through these or we, you know, whatever it takes, I will get it done.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: And I told Megan this, and I think I've told listeners this, but I plan my 50th to be in Walt Disney World.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be in Florida.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I already wasted the good states, like Hawaii's done, like California's done, all the cool states are done.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to places like Mississippi.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: No offense.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: No offense to Mississippi listeners.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Have you done New Hampshire?
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, I'm working my way to the east.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Like this, this will be my end of the South.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And then I work through the Midwest.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: I was the East Coast with you.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you were supposed to go to Fargo with me.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: I was.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: What happened?
6:13
SPEAKER_02: You just said I decided to go.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't really want to go to Fargo.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: And then you're like, but I will go to Cleveland with you.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And then you didn't either do that one either.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: I you know, I talk a lot of talk.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: That's one of my faults in life.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: I will, I'm the person who always says, like, yeah, that sounds like fun, let's do it.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: I don't do it.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: And I'm the opposite, where like if someone's like, oh, I'm doing this, I'm like, yeah, we're doing it.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, sign your name and blood right now.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: Yep, give me a date and a time and I'll be there.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: Regardless.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: You're a very, you're a very committed person, and I'm very non-committal.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm very loosey-goosey.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's why we're yin and yang on this podcast.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: We are.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: I wonder what people think about us.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: They sure tell us in the comments.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Why do you care?
6:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: It's just a weird thought.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, but really quick, uh, well, no, since I'm committed to my story now, just so you know, last marathon, Disney World, Florida.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: And this is my like in my head, what's gonna happen is I'm gonna have this big beautiful banquet at the Grand Floridian.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna rent some sort of like nice room there.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and we're gonna host this big banquet, and I'm gonna get up and make a speech, and I'm gonna recognize every single person that came to a marathon with me.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's a slideshow, maybe I sing, I don't know.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: An open invitation.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, that yeah, I want like everyone who wants to come to be there.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: You heard it here.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: You're you're invited.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: You'll be it's not that far away, which is what's crazy.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: Eight years away.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: It's actually not that far.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: It's not that far.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: As we get older, like eight years sounds like a blink of an eye.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: I when I was, well, when we like got into high school, and you're like, four years, four years is forever to graduate.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: I can't be in high school for four years.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: And now I'm like, when was four years ago?
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, about like yesterday.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: You're like this new sweater I have.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, I bought it stuff all the time.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, I just bought this.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: I still say, Oh, I just moved to Arizona.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh when.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm like 2017.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: Eight years ago.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: I've been here 16 years now.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: And I still getting old.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: I still say that.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, I just moved here recently.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh shit, no.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm almost at the point where I've lived here longer than my home state.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And so this will be like the new home state.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Crazy.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: What's weird for me is I am at the point right now in my relationship with my husband.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: Because I met him when I was 18, and we've been together for 18 years.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Damn.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: So now I'm at the point where we are we're now, yeah, because we we first are dating in January.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's not quite coming up.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, so our 18th anniversary for seeing each other is coming up in a couple weeks.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: On your surgery date?
8:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: Which means we're gonna, I've I've been with my husband longer than I haven't been, and that's weird.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Maybe he only loved you for your duchess growing on your neck.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Let me be clear.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: We only knew about this like a month ago.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: I know, I'm kidding.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: I didn't it's not like I have a goiter just talking out of my neck.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: Although I am wearing a turtleneck today if you're on the YouTube.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: And I did have to show Megan the scene from Big Fat Greek Wedding.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: I was dying.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where the ant goes always on my neck.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: A lump.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: I have a lump.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: I have a lump.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: They did a bibopsy.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: The bibopsy.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: They found teeth and a spinal cord.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: It was my twin.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: So you never know what you're gonna find in there.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, we've got um, speaking of gross weird things.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, speaking of the macabre.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: The macabre, the dark, you're here because you like the weird, you like the dark, the spooky, don't you?
9:43
SPEAKER_02: The disturbing.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, we do have a disturbing episode.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: We should preface with that.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: We do.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll give you some trigger warnings throughout.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: It's not the craziest thing we've ever talked about, but there's some certain things that are very triggering.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we apologize in advance.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: No, we don't.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: This is a beheaded.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: We don't apologize because we're sharing history.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: This happened.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of disturbing things that have happened in history.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: There are still disturbing things that are happening every day.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, but we are here to share the story of a particular person who had a lot of trials and tribulations and difficult times.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: But we also, I want to preface with we need to go into the story, also thinking about the era that we're in and the time period that we're in.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: And obviously, morals and laws and everything have changed so much over the past hundreds of years.
10:33
SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna take you back into time.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: You have to take out your modern day thinking right now and your modern day perspective, and we'll be talking about we're gonna be in 18th century Russia.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: And our lady of the evening, she actually we're gonna we're gonna use her, I guess, more Americanized English name.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank God.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: For for ease of of uh speaking throughout this episode.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, but she was born Maria Danilovna Goventova, if I said that at all correctly.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you can't tell by that name, she's Russian.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna call her Mary Hamilton.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: That's like her English name, which I don't know how they arrived at that name from her Russian name.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm confused, but we're gonna go with it because we can pronounce it.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, it was funny.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth goes, hey, do you want to take early life on this one?
11:24
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what early life?
11:27
SPEAKER_00: She's like, there is no early life.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: And I said, exactly.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: We have nothing on her early life.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh a little a dash.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll tell you what we do now about Mary Hamilton.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: She her ancestors were Scottish, so she has Scottish descent in her, and she's related.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: One of her ancestors was Thomas Hamilton, who moved from Scotland to Russia during the reign of Ivan the Terrible.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: Which we we didn't even do some episodes on that.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: On Ivan the Terrible?
11:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, him and like Vlad the Impaler, like these like very brutal We have talked about Vlad the Impaler before, and I can't remember the exact show.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Ivan the Terrible sounds like he's up to no good.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: He must have done some bad dirty executions.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Revisit this in terms of future executions.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: We need to underline that mental note.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: There's a back to that.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Of Russia, we still need to cover when it comes to executions.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: We've only scratched the surface.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: So many countries.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: Anyways.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Mary Hamilton, uh, related to Thomas Hamilton, pretty sure daughter of a guy named William Hamilton.
12:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, sure.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Now I feel really quick.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: I feel really stupid because I said she was born Maria.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: I guess that wasn't she if she was Scottish, she wouldn't have been born Maria.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: But she was born in Russia though.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: It's just that her ancestors were Scottish.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: So you think she had a Russian name, but maybe her family called her the more?
12:50
SPEAKER_00: And it's obviously not an American name, it's an English name.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Someone tell us.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: So ignore everything I said about her Americanized name.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: Sorry about that.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: You get it.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we we totally get it.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: But what we do know about her is she was beautiful, she was intelligent.
13:09
SPEAKER_02: And in 1713, she became a lady in waiting to the Empress.
13:15
SPEAKER_02: It was Empress Catherine I of Russia.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: Who was married to Peter the Great.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: And Peter the Great is a Tsar, right?
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Is the ruler of Russia.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: So that makes Catherine I a tsarina, is what they called it.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: I love that word, Tsarina.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: So it's basically queen, empress, whatever you want to call it.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: But I love, yeah, the word tsarina.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't long that Mary was in court being a lady in waiting to Catherine I when she caught the eye of obviously Catherine's husband, Peter the Great, who was known to have a lot of mistresses.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And she also knew that, she being Catherine I.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't a surprise.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: I feel like in you've seen this maybe in like other renditions of the later Catherine the Great, which was like, I don't know, 50 to 100 years after this.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: But like we've seen in the Russian court where there's a lot of lovers, the, you know, the czars are taking lovers, the czarinas are taking lovers.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not that uncommon.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: No.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: And it's a little more, I think, out there than in a lot of other societies.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, other courts perhaps around Europe keep it a little more secret.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe they at least attempt to make it secret or attempt to make it official in some way.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: But I think it was pretty open here that like the czar and the czarina had other lovers.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: I think that was just the culture of the time.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you did bring up Catherine the Great.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: So just to put things into context, real quick, because that's what I like to do.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: I have to think about the the people that I do know in history.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: So Peter the Great married to Catherine the First.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: Their grandson was Peter the Second who married Catherine the Great.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: So Catherine the Great is the granddaughter-in-law to Catherine I and Peter the Great.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: So we're not going to be really talking about Catherine the Great in this episode.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: We do a bit at the end because there's a fun fact at the end about her.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: And we just love Catherine the Great.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Come on.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's she's a cool lady.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, she ruled in the late 1700s.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: So right now we're still in the late 1600s, early 1700s, because we don't know exactly when Mary Hamilton was born.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they think it was like uh yeah, 1713 was when she got into court, but yeah, we're like early 1700s.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so anyway, back to our story.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: So Mary Hamilton is having this very public affair with Peter the Great.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: And as any man in this position, he quickly tires of her.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's a very short-lived fling, but she knows she's beautiful, she uses beauty to her advantage, and she's smart, so she's not just gonna end it there.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: She's gonna find another person, you know, worthy of worshiping her, so to say.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: And so she finds none other than Peter's aide named Ivan or Yvonne, uh, Orlof.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: So Orlof is uh, he's also a man in court, and he's known to have a few lovers as well.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: Everyone's dating everyone.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's dating everyone.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, but she really is trying to, I guess, curry favor with him because I think she feels something genuine for him, at least in a carnal way, at least in a you know, a sexual way.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: She's really into this relationship and she's trying to make it work, even if he has other mistresses.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: And a way that she's doing that is she actually starts stealing jewelry and money from Catherine I.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Not something you probably want to do, especially in this era.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: To your employer.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to your employer, and in this era where everyone's sleeping with everybody.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: So obviously, word's gonna get out.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: It's not super secret.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's what she does, is she starts slowly stealing from the Empress.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh it's it's not long to that Orlov kind of tires of her as well, um, and has another pretty public affair with another woman who is also sleeping with Peter the Great.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: First of all, Peter the Great, we thought this was a joke.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: He was six foot eight.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: I think, I mean, according according to history, yeah.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: Huge.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: Like if you Google it, it will say he's six foot eight.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Which maybe he was six foot five, but they exaggerate.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: That's really tall, but it's a big man.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: He was, I mean, is now a good time?
17:26
SPEAKER_02: Can we kind of talk about who Peter the Great was?
17:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: I think just to also give that background of what was court life like.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, Peter was pretty out there, he was pretty eccentric.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: He didn't give pretty much a rad's ass to normal customs and tradition.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: He would do things like dress in normal clothes, hang out with common common people.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, he was kind of crude.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: He liked really dark humor, practical jokes, kind of vulgar, really loved to party.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: He loved dreamplow drinking, loved having big all-nighters, big parties, big binges.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, a lot of sex capades, a lot of that happening around.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Um he was also really into like he was very naturally curious.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: So he was really into science and like new ways of thinking.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, he didn't he didn't agree with a lot of the old ways that the Imperials had been running Russia.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: So he was trying to just do things in a new, different, funky way.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, like had a lot of very, I guess, dubious interests.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Macabre, maybe.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: Macab is a great word for it.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: He was um he was kind of brutal too.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: He was known to be a great friend.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: And if you were on his good side, he was very loving, doting, you know, empathetic towards his friends.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: If you were on his bad side, didn't care.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: He was all for whatever means necessary, um, pretty brutal with torture and death sentences.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: So Peter was pretty out there when it came to rulers.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the pros, I guess, if we're looking at his legacy, is that he wasn't afraid to try something new.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: And he really did shake up the imperial court, tried a lot of new things when it came to, I don't know, new territories and new military tactics and things like that.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: So he's praised for that.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: But cons, again, very severe, like loved to punish people, and he valued loyalty above else.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: So if if you weren't uh loyal to him, watch, watch back.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, back to the uh to Mary and her affair with Orlof.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: So we know, like we said, that this is starting to fizzle.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: And we also know that Orloff is getting very abusive with her.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: He's starting to treat her really poorly.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: And again, she seems a little desperate to hold on to this relationship for some reason.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, he's also a well-known like alcoholic.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: So he just is treating her continually like poorly, but she's just not going away.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Toxic relationship.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: And it makes me wonder a little bit more about Mary's character.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: I I, you know, of course, we don't have any real journals or personal accounts of what she was like.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Really, the story is only being told.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: Like, we only know what we know because of the records and accounts of what happened and from the confessions and things that are gonna come in the story.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: But I mean, what was it that attracted her towards Orlov when being kind of hostile and uh raging alcoholic and abusive and was known to hit her and and beat her?
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: It's sad, really.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: There's also some accounts of Mary by her contemporaries that she was a very like cold and calculating woman, um, and that she was very aware of her beauty and used it to her advantage.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: So perhaps she was almost just so insulted that like these men didn't want to stay with her because of her beauty and her charm that she was like, no, like I I'm the best woman in court.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, how could you not want to be with me?
21:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, I brought you jewels, I brought you money.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: So I think in a way, maybe it comes off very clingy and needy, and we're just speculating here.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: But by all accounts, she wasn't like a emotions on her sleeve person.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: So perhaps it was just like she was insulted.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: She was like, Why wouldn't she want to be with me?
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, and she was very calculated, and she was a woman who did what she needed to do.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Which comes to the part that we were alluding to of these her actions that she took are quite triggering and um kind of disturbing here.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: But she was definitely pregnant at least twice, possibly three times.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: From Orlov, I'm assuming.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: It could have been Peter or Lovers or who else in court.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: The first time she was pregnant, she does work to to induce a miscarriage, shall we say.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Mm hmm.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: And she does this by obtaining constipation medication.
21:59
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Expel the baby.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, and she would just kind of own it all up to like really bad indigestion pains and whatnot.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: So that is one known account of her doing it.
22:15
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: Potentially she did that twice.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: So she kind of had a strategy in place.
22:20
SPEAKER_02: She'd also wear really tight corsets when this would happen to make sure that she didn't go through with the pregnancy.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that is is disturbing.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: But um the worst part of it is she actually does become pregnant and fully, fully to term pregnant.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, she hid her pregnancy by wearing really loose clothes and just playing it off as gaining weight or whatever, which I mean, how it's just so at some point it's so obvious, right?
22:47
SPEAKER_02: But right.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, and when she could feel the baby was coming, she could feel she was going into labor.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: She actually played it off as like, I have a tummy ache.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: Be right back.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: I've got some real bad gas pains going on here and some constipation happening.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, and she had a servant help her and she delivered the baby and pretty cold about it.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And there's two accounts as to what happens after this.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: And again, trigger warning.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're talking about children here, but um, she either, as soon as the baby's born, suffocates the baby, like with her own hands, um, or she simply takes the baby, like wraps it up in a sheet, and she either does this herself or she tells a servant to go and drown it.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: All we know, and this will come out later, is that it was found in a well later.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: So it was found in a water well, and it was clearly from like an imperial bedchamber because it was wrapped in like the specific sheets that they would only use in those chambers.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: So everyone knew, oh, this isn't just from uh, you know, servants' quarters or somewhere else in the in, I don't know if you want to call it castle or palace, whatever, but um, this is specifically from this area.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: I think it was shocking that someone of such a high nobility, of someone in the court, would be doing because a lady in waiting was pretty high up.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: She wasn't just servant, she was companionship to the empress.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: And I believe her Scottish roots were noble Scottish roots.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: She had a good lineage.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: But she would have gotten away with all of this.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't known.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: They didn't find the remains first.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: So there was a situation that comes up in court where there's some documents that go missing.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: And for whatever reason, they target Orlov, her on an uh on again, off again lover.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: And they kind of come at him hot, them being like the the Tsar's men and um officials wanting to know and start interrogating him on what's going on with these documents that they're blaming him for.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: And we should note too quickly the year is 1717 at this point.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: Great job.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: 1717.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: And Orlov jumps to conclusions, doesn't have any idea why they're interrogating him, but just assumes that it's about that they found the remains of this baby.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: So clue one is he's somehow involved because he knows about it.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: Whether Mary just confessed to him and told him what happened, whether he was assisting with it, we don't know.
25:12
SPEAKER_02: We don't know, we don't know.
25:14
SPEAKER_02: But he just goes, You're right, you're right, I know everything.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: It was Mary Hamilton, that was her baby.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: That's that's what she did.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: And they're just like, What are you talking about?
25:27
SPEAKER_02: We don't even know what you're talking about.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: It was such an unexpected confession of something out of the blue, and you can imagine that feeling of like foot and mouse syndrome is like what was this meeting called for?
25:40
SPEAKER_02: Like, we were just missing a piece of paper, dude.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we thought you knew where it was.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: So he completely throws Mary under the bus, reveals her darkest secret that nobody else knows.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the servant, you know, who sings like a parrot, shall we say?
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Canary.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: I like parrot too, though.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: Sings like a canary, shall we say?
25:59
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, whether we don't know his exact involvement in all of this, but he sure knows a whole lot of details about the infanticide and her preventing other pregnancies and things.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: He just seems to have a lot of details for somebody who's uh, you know, claiming to be innocent.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: And also, again, uh a testament to his character where he just did did not hold back knowing the outcome of what this would mean for Mary.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, he pretty didn't didn't protect her in in any way.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: Um so of course they arrest Mary at this point.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: And not only do they interrogate her, but they interrogate her under torture.
26:40
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: We it was kind of hard to interpret the the document the documents that we were reading on this, but it sounds almost like he was in the room.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: Orlov was with her while she was being tortured and they were questioning, but maybe not.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: What what how did you read that?
26:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: I know that they were both in the St.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Petersburg uh fortress together.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Ah, thank you.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: The fortress of St.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Petersburg.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know dates and places.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: I just go to the store.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: That that's that's important.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, but so I know that they were in prison together.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if she was necessarily tortured in front of him, um, but I'm sure they had enough time to maybe, you know, discuss.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: And it was very clear that Mary was not willing to give up Orloff at all.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: She confessed to everything she did.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: She confessed to uh the infanticide, she confessed to having a pregnancy or potentially two that she prevented.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, but when it came to Orloff and anything that he had done, she was like, Nope, like my lips are sealed.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Even under torture, she did not give him up at all.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Which do you think maybe he didn't have anything to do with it?
27:40
SPEAKER_00: He just knew.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Maybe, but again, I I don't know why she's so keen to protect this guy.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: She really likes him.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: Because she had every opportunity to be like, I can bring you down just as just as quick, my friend.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: And if and if he was truly breaking her heart and breaking up with her, it it does seem, you know, sadly, it seems a lot of like what we hear about how the dynamics of an abusive relationship, where she's still protecting him and covering for him, wanting to be with him, wanting to go back with him, wanting to please tossing her to the side.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: I know.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so what what's going on too like with the crimes of all of these things is uh, and Megan's gonna talk a little bit more about this, but in this time, infanticide, like murdering a child, murdering an infant is a serious crime.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: Good.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: Regardless of era.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, regardless of era.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, however, we do think she might have been let off, uh, but more was brought to light.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, they knew about the killings and the prevented pregnancies, but what made it worse was that they also found out in their investigation that she was stealing from the Empress.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: She was stealing.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was stealing from the Tsarina.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: They found the items of the Tsarinas in her room.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: So you have that, all of a sudden the court is just like running wild with uh with gossip.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: So there's more gossip coming to light, and people are now accusing her of spreading rumors about the Zarina.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: One of the rumors is so silly.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: The biggest rumor was that um she went around, Mary went around and told people that the reason why this arena was so pale is because she ate wax to keep her skin pale.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: What a dumb rumor.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: Or like wax is part of like her nightly skincare routine or something like that.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: She ate it.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that she ate it?
29:30
SPEAKER_02: I didn't pick up on that.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: Weird.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like, why would she care?
29:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: So so people, you know, in this time thought, well, yes, the infanticide is bad.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Bad, bad, bad.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: But maybe she would have been had like had a lesser punishment had she not stolen from the czarina and had she not been so close to the throne, because they don't want this kind of scandal, even though there's a lot of scandal going on at this time, but they don't want anything representing the throne in that way.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: But I think, yeah, Megan, you had uh a few more things kind of about the legality surrounding this at the time.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: So in 18th century Russia, if a woman or anybody, if anyone was found of ending the life of their newborn baby, there was a a workaround.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: They had to determine the reason for why they chose to end the life.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: If it was because the family was poor and they couldn't keep the child alive due to lack of food and a safe home and all of that, if it would have been a worse upbringing for the baby, it was actually legally okay.
30:33
SPEAKER_03: Right.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: But if they were found to be well off and they were ending the life because they didn't just want the baby, it was out of wedlock, it would have created scandal, it was a burden to them, but they just didn't want the baby, then it was a crime.
30:49
SPEAKER_03: Right.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, and of course, for Barry, because of her upbringing and her position as lady in waiting, it was the latter of the two, right?
30:57
SPEAKER_00: They're like You could have supported the baby.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was out of wedlock and you would have been shamed, which is likely her reasoning for all of this because she didn't want to be seen as a quote harlot and everything falls on the woman, right?
31:08
SPEAKER_02: It's just I know.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if she ever admitted this, but there was uh an account that we had seen, uh like a documentary that said uh, you know, she didn't want to be less desirable in court either.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: And so if you're a mother and you have a f you know, two or three babies running around, you're seen as like a less desirable woman than than a young lady without children.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: So she she always had that, again, that drive to be an object of desire, and she was willing to do whatever it takes to like keep that image of her alive, which is very sad, very cold.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, knowing all of this and kind of the background and the and the legality surrounding it, Catherine I really did protest on Mary's behalf.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: She said, No, you know, I I've I know Mary, she's my my favorite, my lady in waiting.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Mary, quite contrary.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you know, just go easy on her.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: She doesn't need this harsh pun harsh punishment.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, she did some wrong things, but she stole from me.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and she stole all my jewels, but you know, can't we let her off with a warning?
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, but Peter the Great was he was essentially like absolutely not.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: He wanted to be as strict as possible with this case.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: He said, This isn't an exact quote, but he said that he cannot violate God's or his law, me his meaning uh Peter the Great's law.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: I wonder if in the back of his mind there was the potential it also could have been his baby.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: And I wonder if that's what he was also considering.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're not exactly sure who who the father was.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, but regardless, uh Mary Hamilton uh was officially sentenced to death.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: I think it was November 18th, uh, 1718, that she was officially found guilty.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: And she was guilty of infanticide, early termination of a pregnancy.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Jewelry theft, of course.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: Theft, how to throw that one in there.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: She was executed at Trinity Square, and at her execution, she wore a white dress with black ribbons.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: It's also the date was March 14th, 1719.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: You with your dates tonight, but I didn't get the place.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: I don't have the time, time and place.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: She had the mercy of being beheaded by a sword.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: Hence, we were talking about the swordsman earlier.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Swordsman.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Swordsman.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: So it was seen as more of an honorable death if you did die by sword, um, as opposed to an axe.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm not sure why exactly that is, if it was just a like a swifter thing, maybe uh less room for botching.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: I think we just talked about this on our one of our previous episodes, too.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh Peter the Great did give her the courtesy of, hey, you know, you're still a woman of status and we want you to die a somewhat honorable death.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: To be a swordsman versus an axe man, it took finder skill.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: That's how the French did it.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: They did it with a sword.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, fun fact.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: I just watched uh The Private Life of Henry VIII.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: That movie, a black and white movie from like 1933, which is an interesting watch if you've never seen it.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of funny.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Like they make Henry the Eighth so like goofy and he's such an oaf, you know, bad manners, and but he makes fun of everyone else for their poor manners.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, my my point being was that the one of the beginning scenes is right before the execution of Anne Boleyn, and like the French swordsman's in, I guess, the dungeon or whatever, and he's sharpening his long, beautiful sword, and the axeman's there, like the executioner, and he's like, I don't know why they called you.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: And the French guy's like, it is because like we do everything better in France, and it takes a certain finesse.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's so it's this cute little exchange between like this brute English axeman and like the very fancy Frenchman.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: So if you haven't seen that movie, it's cute, but it it now, whenever we talk about sword versus axe, I think of that scene.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: I'll have to see it.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: I I admittedly I haven't seen it, which is on me.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Weirdly, like Catherine, not to spoil it, but like Catherine Howard's like the main girl of the movie.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: Weird.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: And they present her totally different than in modern times.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: So again, worth a watch, you know, take it for what it is.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's quite historically accurate.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: But the one from the 30s.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the really old one.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Really old one.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: But you know.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so swordsman versus axeman.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: In Russia, it was a fine skill and it was an honor and an act of mercy.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, so this is where it gets weird too.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: This isn't so much of a trigger warning, it's just weird.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: It's just weird.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: This is what we meant by this is a disturbing, weird episode.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this is how we know Peter the Great is, in fact, a very weird macabre guy.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: So he's there.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: First of all, I don't think King Henry VIII was at the executions of his wives.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: No.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: He wasn't, he was like doing something else.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: He's probably hunting.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, when uh he was getting married on some of them.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: He was already on to the next.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: When Cromwell was getting executed, he was busy getting married to Catherine Howard.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for some reason, Peter the Great is not only there, he's on like the scaffold.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: He's he's at the executioner's like close and personal on this one.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: Like in their personal space.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: So immediately after Mary is beheaded, he goes up and he picks up her severed head and he decides to give the entire crowd like an anatomy lesson.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: He's literally describing weirdo.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: He's describing all of the features of her face, and then he like shows them the severed neck and the like the veins and the blood and all the gross stuff going on.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: And he's describing everything to them.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't see their reaction.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: They're like, dude, put that away.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Put it down.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: I think it was all shock factor for him.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: And that's the kind of guy that Peter the Great was.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: It was anything just to get the like, he wanted mouths to drop open.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: He wanted people to be like, is this allowed?
36:47
SPEAKER_02: Is our emperor allowed to do this?
36:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, something to give people to talk about later.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: Disturbing as it was.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: It gets worse.
36:55
SPEAKER_02: Kind of crude.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: Oh god.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: There's more.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh, good.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Keep going.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so then after he's showing the crowd all about the neck and the severedness of it, uh, he then kisses the head.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh no, Peter, come on.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: He kissed the kid.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: Be cool, man.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: Be cool.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: Act like you've been there before.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Weirdo.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: That's not what you do.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Grab the head and kiss it.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: So after he kisses the head, uh, then he just drops it on the ground.
37:24
SPEAKER_02: I wonder if he was drunk.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: He might have.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, well, or Orlov was the drunk one.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they were both drunk.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Actually, they were all drunk back then.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: I think Peter the Great, when we were looking up his like pros and cons and stuff, I think it did say that he was a bit of an alcoholic, too.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like you said, maybe everyone was.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they were all partying and vodka was prevalent in Russia at this time.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Debauterous.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so not only does it end there, I mean, luckily the part with the, I guess, display to the crowd was over.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: But once the execution was over, and we're not sure if this is really a rumor, if you guys have more like facts on if this is true, please let us know.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: But it was it was kind of this urban legend that her head was then preserved in this glass jar of alcohol.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: It was like this, like maybe it was vodka, but it was just like spirits, like it was just a clear alcohol.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: And they kept it in, I think you have the name of it.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: I do have it.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, it was in the Russian Academy of Sciences.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: I think the Russian word for it was Kunstra Kamera, if I'm saying that right.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Again, I do not know Russian at all, but that's how I'm gonna say it.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: So essentially it was Peter's Museum of Curiosities.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Like he kept weird shit there.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: And he kept not only that head, but another head that belonged to the brother of one of his other mistresses.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: So he's collecting heads in jars.
38:46
SPEAKER_02: It's very strange.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:48
SPEAKER_02: Catherine the Great.
38:49
SPEAKER_02: We said we were gonna bring her up again.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: She's the one who found it.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: She found it.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: So this is probably the late 1700s now.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: She was like, Why is this here?
38:59
SPEAKER_00: And she yeah, and she wanted to give them proper burials.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: So she commanded that they be removed from the jars, be properly buried.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: And then we saw something in a documentary.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: This is gross.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: I don't know who who was it that did it?
39:13
SPEAKER_02: I I don't, I think I tuned out.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't know who it was, but there was an alcohol shortage at the time.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Apparently, there was an alcohol shortage at the time.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: So whoever was in charge of like retrieving the head or burying the head, or you know, somehow being involved with this command from Catherine the Great apparently drank the alcohol in a jar.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: The head juice?
39:33
SPEAKER_00: We said this would be weird.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we warned you.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean he drank the head juice.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot of rumors that went around this time that Catherine the Great slept with a horse, for example.
39:46
SPEAKER_03: Is that a rumor?
39:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
39:55
SPEAKER_03: She slept with a horse.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: She looks like a horse.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: I really do think they were all just drunk back then.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna just say that was some like folklore legend that some kid came up with, like, well, you know, he drank the head juice.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: I think it was a lie.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
40:14
SPEAKER_03: There's no way.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: I hope it didn't happen.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: If it did happen, those Russians, man.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: Consider that's why that's a little bit too intense.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: When we did our Romanov episode, we had our friend Elena on.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: I wonder what her comments would be right now.
40:30
SPEAKER_02: You said that like a Romanov.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: You said that like a Romanov.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: Um the Stroganoff.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: So it was um it was an interesting time.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: Definitely very macabre.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Again, apologies for kind of the graphic nature of the of what happened with the fate of the children.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, kind of goes to show everyone's character.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: I uh Peter the Great, yeah, out there, bizarre, into the macabre, like Ivan Orloff, you know, obviously abusive, alcoholic, you know, threw Mary under the bus pretty quick.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: And then Mary herself, who was just, again, it seemed desperate for love, but also just very cold, calculated.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Was she in survival mode?
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Like this is what's hard is we there's so limited documents of what happened throughout this.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: Is like we don't know where they were coming from.
41:17
SPEAKER_02: We don't know the true meaning behind their actions or even which actions were absolutely true or which ones were just rumors.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe maybe Mary was, you know, maybe her options were very limited and she was in survival mode and give her some grace on that.
41:33
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe, maybe she was a cold person.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
41:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's um, you know.
41:39
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say maybe that's for you to figure out.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: I don't think we ever will.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: But uh it was uh an interesting story.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: How did you come how did you come across this one?
41:48
SPEAKER_00: This one was uh Oh, I found this uh because I like I was gonna suggest a French episode for tonight, but we just did one two episodes ago.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: So we space out some of the French ones and uh I was actually looking through our executed today card.
42:03
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, yeah.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: So we have the playing cards from Executed Today, which is a website, executedtoday.com, and they basically have like on this day and an execution every day.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: And uh there's playing cards that we have that have different um people's dates on there.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: And I mentioned this to Megan, but in that um in the Executed Today playing card deck, the four suits are the British, the French, the Russians, and the Germans.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: And I was saying it's just so funny.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, how come we don't get more famous executions from other parts of the world?
42:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, we've only had a couple in the like the US that we know about, at least, you know, from past I mean for historically.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: For historical purposes.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, we've had what the one Italian one in Mussolini.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: Like we had We had Wikari.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: We had Matahari, but she she was also like she served uh in World War II for the for the Allies.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, I'm gonna but what I'm saying is like you know, but Matahari wasn't in another country, she was still in Western Europe, is my point.
43:06
SPEAKER_02: Like oh, you're saying outside of Western Europe.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Outside of Western Europe, like, you know, and even in what Western Europe, we've only had a couple countries represented here.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, those stories are out there.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Definitely like keep giving us some of the recommendations too.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: I do have more written down.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Did someone send us a cool, like, I don't know, Indonesia or like Japanese one.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying, like, we just need to, you know, I'm just surprised there's not more prevalent big execution stories from these from these areas.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: We've only had two in Egypt.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, give me some more Africa.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I mean, I I like more variety, obviously is what I'm hearing.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: We're tutor enthusiasts, so I'm very excited to have a lot of tutor representation.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: But outside of that, like let's let's you know throw some others our way.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: But also I love the tutorial.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: Give us like an Australian one.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we have had no Australia.
43:49
unknown: No.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: Um Easter Island.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Give us some cra some crazy Antarctica.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now we're just now we're just reaching.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying, it's just it's just so funny that there's a heavy propor or yeah, I guess a disproportional amount of uh executions in England and France.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth Black.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: We chef.
44:12
SPEAKER_02: Any final words this evening?
44:15
SPEAKER_02: Not tonight.