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Quiet Quitting Your Job (Bonus Episode) | The Christian Reeve Podcast · The Christian Reeve Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to a bonus episode of the Christian Reef
0:05
podcast. That's right.
0:06
It's not part of our regular schedule, not that we really
0:11
have one here. I mean, I do I try to keep them
0:13
weekly. That's something I've tried to
0:14
do, since the beginning of this podcast anyway.
0:18
So I give you this bonus episode because I'm trying to kind of
0:21
trial, just doing like regular topics because I said, I don't
0:27
know, maybe it was on the two year anniversary of The Sodor
0:30
some episode at some point I should remember my apologies but
0:35
you know I said at some point that I would do more discussion
0:37
episodes like this and I didn't. And most of the reason for that
0:41
is that I've been very very fortunate in having a steady
0:44
flow of guests but I started to think about okay well a what if
0:49
I don't have guests you know there's always that potential a
0:52
drought so to speak or just you know lack of interest you know
0:55
you never know you have to prepare for these things right?
0:58
And to I mean you know, it's good to try something different
1:02
and you know I'm trying to kind of mix up the show as much as
1:05
possible and keep it fresh and keep it entertaining and also to
1:09
try and test myself how often can I do a show like this where
1:14
I just talk it's just me for like let's say an hour and I
1:19
don't bore myself into sleep and hopefully to bore you into
1:22
sleep. Now that's going to be
1:24
subjective. Some people might hate these
1:26
episodes I understand. But hey, It's my show.
1:31
I'm going to do this once in a while I like doing this.
1:33
And you know what? I'm working hard.
1:36
I'm working hard to try and give you things that I've sat down
1:39
and researched and thought about and you know developing giving
1:45
you something developing a schedule and developing a show
1:50
each and every time that will give you something to think
1:53
about, maybe something to ponder.
1:55
Hopefully something inspirational.
1:57
Whatever the case, maybe I just like to share.
2:00
Things that I've learned with you, and that's one of the
2:03
reasons why, whenever I have a guest on the show, I get really
2:05
excited because you will get to listen to that and see that as
2:09
well and you'll get to learn from that person.
2:11
And I just think that's really cool.
2:12
You know, each and every time there's a new person, something
2:15
new, something, new, something new and hopefully these
2:17
discussion episodes will be like that.
2:20
Now this particular thing is interesting.
2:23
This topic should say. So this on Twitter and you know,
2:28
every once in awhile I'll I'll see what's trending on Twitter
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and whatnot and this I don't know that this was necessarily
2:34
trending but sometimes if you're in UK Twitter I'm sure it's the
2:38
same for other countries as well in your right-hand sidebar.
2:42
You'll get like these topic kind of things where it's not exactly
2:46
like a trending thing but they'll have like an article
2:50
from some website or maybe some newspaper out there and they
2:54
basically take talking about a topic and that topic may or may
2:58
not be viral. But Some reason they've managed
3:00
to get into the search bar or the sidebar, or whatever it is
3:04
and, and you see it, and this is something that I saw.
3:07
And, you know, sometimes these topics that quaint, I think
3:11
about like all that might be interesting, maybe I could do a
3:13
video on it. I saw this topic and I felt
3:17
compelled to do an entire podcast.
3:23
Why you might ask? Well, I've been in this
3:26
situation, I've been in this situation before and it's not a
3:32
nice situation to be in. There's people in my community
3:37
that I still going for it or have recently gotten for it and,
3:42
you know, for what it's worth. I don't think there are any like
3:45
concrete, right, or wrong answers because in every
3:47
situation it's going to be different.
3:49
You know, you have to kind of weigh up the circumstances and
3:53
and From there. But for what it's worth, I do
3:57
think there's an element of Truth in this.
3:59
So what am I talking about? What the concept of quiet,
4:03
quitting your job. Now this I'm taking information
4:07
from an article written by a lady called Ellen Scott.
4:10
And it was in Metro lifestyle or Metro the UK newspaper.
4:16
For our International listeners, you can find it online Metro
4:19
.co.uk and a lot of this article is Quotes from her or, you know,
4:25
from people, she's interviewed but the actual definition, the
4:28
person that seemed to coin this phrase.
4:31
I could be wrong on that but it's by a tick, tock user, well
4:35
enough called has AK Chillin and they said that quiet quitting.
4:39
Your job is when you're not outright quitting your job but
4:43
you're quitting the idea of going above and beyond When I
4:49
heard this. I instantly just felt depressed
4:55
hearing it for two reasons, one because I could hear the kind of
5:01
sadness in that statement, you know.
5:03
It's almost like It's almost like when a relationship is
5:07
dying and you just accept it, but you haven't, you know, kind
5:10
of ended it yet. You're just letting it run.
5:12
Its course, it's the same kind of principle.
5:15
It's there's nothing worse than being in a job.
5:17
Staying in a job you hate and and quitting especially in a job
5:21
that you once. Put 100% 110% in, you know, you
5:24
were so excited about you were full of joy and energy.
5:28
And now you're just like, yeah, whatever.
5:32
And that's kind of how I felt when I heard that statement.
5:35
Also it just reminded me of situations.
5:38
I've been in when I when I felt this way for example, I remember
5:44
my very first kind of paid job with a contract.
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You I did jobs before that but first job when I was 18 with a
5:50
contract, I was working in a supermarket.
5:53
So my regular listeners will know this.
5:55
I've spoken about this and nauseam, but for those who don't
5:57
know, I was working in a supermarket and I remember a
6:01
month or so in there was a lady who works Look there she worked
6:06
there for years, really, intelligent lady.
6:08
And I remember that she used to work the wine section, remember
6:11
that? And she's from South Africa as
6:14
well? I can't for the life of me.
6:17
Remember him a name though, it's been so many years.
6:20
Yeah, no, I wouldn't say her name anyway.
6:22
But yes, it's like the things you remember, you don't
6:25
remember. But I remember what she said and
6:28
basically she we got on and she'd kind of noticed that I was
6:33
working really hard and she worked hard To but she said this
6:38
attitude that you've got is not going to serve you.
6:41
Well you're giving them too much and I kind of in a know-it-all
6:46
kind of way said like oh that's that's poppycock you know who
6:49
says that? Well we got you know that's
6:52
never going to happen to me. You know, I love working here
6:55
and you know, my hard work will be recognized and you know all
7:00
the other things that people say when they kind of blindly
7:04
believing that that they've got this awesome job and
7:06
everything's going to be great hunky-dory before they realized
7:10
about things like politics and stuff like that.
7:12
You know, I was just I was a kid as well.
7:15
When I look back, I thought I was really really, you know
7:18
smart and intelligent and mature but I wasn't I was just a stupid
7:22
18 year old. And I the reason why I was
7:26
stupid was because I just I didn't know anything.
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You know. I didn't know anything about
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Like human psychology. How people are how people can
7:35
be? You know for instance I didn't
7:37
consider the fact that there were people there that have been
7:39
working there for like 15 20 years and they hated their jobs
7:42
and they see me coming in as a young teenager, and they hate
7:47
the idea of me, and so, they purposely to keep me down.
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I'd never considered that push, but I'd never considered the
7:54
fact that there were people there that might be jealous of
7:56
my youth, you know, I'd never considered that to be honest.
7:59
I hadn't really considered it until I sat down.
8:02
And did this podcast and started talking to you about it?
8:04
Because really, some of the things I thought about, I
8:07
thought about the fact that there's, like, this politics
8:09
thing going on and the people can be jealous.
8:11
But I've never really sat and thought about the fact that
8:14
these people have been there for very long time, and maybe that
8:17
wasn't their first choice of career, maybe there was other
8:19
things, they wanted to do, you know, but whatever the case may
8:22
be, When I got six months into the job, I remember going back
8:28
to that person and turn around to her and just point blank,
8:32
saying you were right, and we laughed, and we spoke a little
8:35
bit about it. And it was one of those kind of
8:37
out, or just so, yeah, but it was kind of a sad conversation
8:40
because I walked away realizing, however, long I stay at this
8:44
company. I'm going to be miserable
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because I hate this job and the reason why I hated the job is
8:51
because I put I worked hard. I gave it my, you know, my old
8:54
because I've always had a good work ethic.
8:57
I've always had that I don't know where it comes from.
9:01
I think part of it is, is from my parents.
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I think to a larger degree. It's something I learned when I
9:07
was at school through various subjects.
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But from that point onwards, I always kind of believed in just
9:14
working hard, you know? And I wasn't gonna even though I
9:18
wasn't exactly thrilled about, you know, working at this place
9:21
I was still going to work hard because hey there were
9:24
opportunities. I mean, for instance, I remember
9:26
in the interview it was a part-time role and they offered
9:29
me a full-time role. And I have to think that they
9:31
offered me that partly because of necessity but also because
9:35
they saw that I was keen and, you know, I presented myself in
9:38
a professional manner and, you know, I continue to do that
9:41
throughout the course of that position in the beginning but
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and this Goes back to what we're talking about throughout the
9:49
course of the first six months of the year, I started to get
9:52
kind of not happy with the role and not happy with the way
9:56
people treating me. And, you know, I was trying to
10:00
push for a supervisory role somewhere about a year and a
10:04
half in and I absolutely deserved it.
10:07
You know, there wasn't anyone more befitting at least in my
10:11
section for that role and And I'm going to skew timelines here
10:17
a little bit. Comment, exactly the sequence of
10:19
events, but the point is I was denied that the first time, But
10:26
it wasn't like a straightforward denial if they did just said no
10:29
you're not ready fine. And I could have asked what I
10:32
need to do to improve Etc. Right.
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That's fair enough. They didn't do that.
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They just kept promising me that I was going to go on this course
10:39
and you know become like a supervisor or whatever and they
10:42
just never happened and I wasn't the only person they made these
10:44
empty promises to they made these empty promises to other
10:47
people so it wasn't just me because it'd be very easy to
10:50
turn around and say well maybe it was just all in your head
10:53
Christian you know maybe you were just you know, maybe it
10:55
You, maybe you would have problem.
10:57
And believe me, I thought about that especially back then, but
11:00
it wasn't. They were, just, they wouldn't
11:03
come out and stupid. Is this sound?
11:05
If they didn't, like, you the management team, if they didn't
11:08
like you and you weren't one of them, they just wouldn't give
11:10
you the, the job that you wanted the role that you wanted the
11:14
promotion. And instead of just telling you
11:18
that like, being truthful and been like, you're not one of us.
11:20
We don't like, you should go somewhere else because of course
11:23
I'm not going to say that they still want to be able to
11:25
control. All you and that's what this
11:26
really was. It was, how long would I put up
11:29
with that job in the end? I put up with the job for about
11:32
three years but the point where I chose to do something about it
11:37
and change things was about two years in, I was miserable, I
11:41
knew they weren't going to give me the job role that I wanted
11:45
the promotion I wanted and I was like, what am I doing?
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I don't want to be here. Anyway, I've got job with work
11:50
experience. I want to go back into education
11:52
and do a degree. And so that's what I did.
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I drop my hours and I went part-time and I was already
11:59
mentally checked out in that first two years but in that
12:02
third year oh my God, I mean it was actually a little bit better
12:06
being part time and going to college I felt somewhat Freer
12:10
and like I had more freedom and such but I still kind of very
12:14
much felt trapped there and quitting that job was I suppose
12:23
well, it was a good thing for my life and it was an inevitable
12:26
thing that was going to happen, but I think in a spiritual way
12:30
it was like A freedom and sense of release.
12:33
That can't quite put into words, and I'm sure many people, listen
12:37
to this show right now. Have experienced this before
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that feeling, when you finally get to quit that job that you
12:42
hate. Yes, it happened.
12:47
I was very happy when it happened.
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I savored the day and I was looking forward to, but let's
12:54
get back to the point. Quiet, quitting your job.
12:58
I started quiet quitting that particular job.
13:02
About a year and a half it but they would never gonna find me
13:07
that particular place. There were people that used to
13:09
steal from the store who never got fired.
13:12
It was almost impossible to get fired for that place.
13:14
You damn me after I beat someone up or set the place on fire.
13:19
So as long as you did the bare minimum you know they will keep
13:23
you on and I realized that the funny thing is in the beginning,
13:27
I was worried about being fired. I thought oh if I don't work
13:30
hard enough, they're going to they're going to find.
13:31
Find me and that's going to be it and then I stopped working as
13:35
hard people noticed. And yet I wasn't being fired and
13:39
I was like oh wow. So all that hard work was for
13:42
nothing. Now immediately people going to
13:46
say well not every workplace is like that.
13:48
Christian you know some places recognize hard work and Merit
13:53
this is true but many places don't.
13:56
And that's kind of the point of this whole show today.
13:59
What do you do when your workplace Isn't going to give
14:03
you the opportunities that you want and deserve, when you're no
14:06
longer happy in your job. What do you do?
14:10
Well, this whole article kind of suggests that maybe quiet
14:13
quitting is, is an idea is an option for people.
14:17
Although I will say that it's a very balanced article, it gives
14:19
a foreign against and we'll kind of explore that throughout the
14:22
rest of this show as well, because I'll give I'll give my
14:26
kind of final thoughts at the end.
14:28
But what I will say is that I don't think this is a kind of a
14:31
Black and white thing. I don't think that anyone should
14:33
just immediately like change their behavior.
14:36
After either hearing this or just in general, you know, one
14:40
day, you're working hard the next day, not, you can't do it,
14:42
I can't do it like that. You got to do these things
14:44
gradually but let's explore a little bit.
14:47
What? Quiet quitting is, so you're
14:49
still performing your duties but you're no longer subscribing to
14:53
the hustle culture mentality, that work has to be your life.
14:58
I mean, when you begin a lot of jobs, And he especially here
15:02
this when you've finished University in your first,
15:04
getting into the workplace or it's your first job, you know,
15:08
there's this idea of hustling, you know, working really really
15:11
hard working crazy hours, you know, the job might be 40 hours
15:14
but you're working 60, 70 hours a week.
15:16
We've all been there sometimes out of necessity.
15:19
You know. I did jobs like that when I was
15:21
at University just to make ends meet and customer services.
15:26
But I also did that in corporate, you know, after I
15:28
finished my degree and I started working in marketing I worked
15:32
crazy hours and no one told me to do that but you feel like a
15:36
pressure to do. So in the beginning you feel
15:39
this idea that you know you want to impress and how do you
15:42
impress while you work more hours, you you try to achieve
15:45
more, you take your initiative, you do all these, these
15:48
different things, hoping that you might get recognized for
15:52
that work but that's that's the reality is that that's all
15:57
you're really doing, you're throwing out an idea.
16:01
You're saying oh hey, maybe maybe they'll they'll see what
16:07
I'm doing and they'll recognize it.
16:08
I'll tell you what, they see, they see someone who doesn't
16:12
value their own time enough and is happy to work for free. 20
16:17
plus hours a week. That's what they see.
16:21
And I might sound harsh and it doesn't apply to every role.
16:25
Because I know there are some roles where.
16:27
Yeah, while you're ours on the contract, may say one thing, you
16:30
end up doing something else because you just have to.
16:33
But any reputable company will compensate you for those hours.
16:38
You know, they'll never expect you to work those hours.
16:41
They won't cultivate an environment that makes you feel
16:45
like you have to do that. Because what I was saying before
16:47
is, While no one might be telling you to do that, you feel
16:53
a compulsion to do. So you see other people not
16:55
leaving their desk at a certain time and you feel uncomfortable
16:58
with that. I can't count.
16:59
How many times I worked in an office and it's 5 p.m. it's time
17:04
to leave but people are still at their desks for another two
17:07
hours. And I remember initially, when I
17:09
first started one job, I remember the first couple of
17:12
times I was about to leave on time and I'd go up to the
17:15
manager and I'd be like oh hey so I'm going to leave To go
17:18
home. Then, is there anything else you
17:21
need me to do? Even though that would take me
17:23
over my hours, didn't say that. But you know what I mean?
17:26
And the first response from the manager, the very first response
17:31
was, oh, you're going home now Let's deconstruct that for a
17:36
second. Oh, you're going home now, what
17:40
were my hours? My hours were 825, 825.
17:45
So at 5 p.m., I can go home right in my contract.
17:51
That's what it states. So, why was I staying because of
17:57
that peer pressure, because of that underlying pressure than
18:02
the unspoken word, what is not being said.
18:05
That's the pressure. That so many people feel in
18:08
workplaces and it's unfair and it's not just, but so many
18:14
people deal with it. So many people feel that they
18:16
have to do things because of that pressure.
18:21
And it's not. Okay.
18:22
It's really not this this whole Possible culture.
18:25
Yeah, and you see so many places that say like oh yeah, you know,
18:29
work the first five or ten years of your life hustle, hustle,
18:31
hustle. And then, you know, you can
18:33
chill for the rest of your life. That's not how it works, man.
18:36
I mean, I'm not saying don't work hard because I think that
18:39
hard work is a great mentality to have like a hard-working
18:44
mentality. Absolutely, but you're not a
18:47
machine. You have to have a healthy
18:51
work-life balance. There has to be more to life
18:54
than work. And you look, I'm a workaholic.
18:56
I love, I love working when it's things that I love to do, right?
19:00
So I understand some people be like, well, what if I love to
19:03
work, what if that's my passion? I get that.
19:06
But you still have to kind of give yourself a break.
19:09
You still have to take care of yourself.
19:11
You know, you can't just be working, 70, 80 hours a week
19:15
and, you know, expect yourself to Still be kind of rolling like
19:22
a circus rolling, is the, what is the wrong way?
19:26
You can't expect yourself to keep going, you know?
19:30
Yeah, I often think that humans are a lot like cars.
19:36
You know, we we require constant maintenance and some of that
19:41
maintenance is just doing simple things like spending some time
19:45
at home and relaxing and not doing anything or working out.
19:50
You know going to places on the weekends with friends and
19:54
family, whatever the case may be, you know, you need to have
19:56
that healthy work-life balance. So, not subscribing to the
20:01
hustle culture. Mentality, of course, that's an
20:05
important thing that anyone should be doing regardless of
20:08
whether it's their first job, you know, they're right in the
20:11
middle of their career, that the top of their career, like, I
20:15
always think you got, you got to do the best that you can do
20:19
within the time, allotted to you but you still have to take care
20:23
of yourself even in a given work day, you know, while it might
20:28
say eight or nine hours on your contract, you're not going to be
20:30
working solidly at your desk for eight or nine hours.
20:33
Some people might some freaks of nature, might be able to pull
20:36
that off. Most people, I think it's more
20:38
likely you're doing. Six and a half hours, you know,
20:42
taking into account lunch and coffee breaks and stuff like
20:45
that. But and also you know, every day
20:49
is different. I mean even now I'm a
20:51
freelancer, right? And I do all these different
20:53
things outside of podcasting, like freelance writing acting
20:59
lots of stuff on social media. I have to a lot time for this
21:03
stuff. Some days, I get lots and lots
21:05
done and I've said this in live streams before where people will
21:08
say, how was your day? I'll say very productive but
21:11
then the next day I'll get nothing done and I'll be really
21:13
upset myself, but every day is different.
21:17
You know, you can't be productive every single day,
21:18
just like you can't be lazy every single day.
21:20
There has to be balance that I just took a beating a dead horse
21:24
at this point. Sorry, let's keep going.
21:27
So in practice what is quite quitting.
21:30
Well, quiet, quitting might be saying no to projects that
21:34
aren't part of your job description.
21:36
Leaving work on time. Refusing to answer emails and
21:39
slap me. Just outside of your working
21:41
hours. Now, a few things to unpack
21:43
here. Let's look at the job
21:46
description part for a second because I've already kind of
21:49
hinted at this class A hinted. I've literally just shouted it.
21:54
I get passionate about this. All right, this is this is
21:56
something quite close to my heart is I don't like people
22:00
being used. I hate that especially in the
22:02
workplace because you know, these managers know what they're
22:05
doing and they prey on on people that are less likely to say no
22:12
you know, then they know what they're doing and I'm lucky that
22:15
I've always been a little bit stubborn and I can I can see
22:19
these situations about to unfold and I don't let it happen to me.
22:22
But it has happened to me. It can happen to anyone, you
22:27
know, especially at the beginning of your career.
22:29
I feel like a lot of manipulation occurs, right?
22:31
At the beginning of people's careers because you can't really
22:33
say no to an extent. I mean, you're trying to build
22:36
up experience, once you kind of got three to five years under
22:39
your belt, You're essentially kind of selling your experience
22:42
after that point and you can kind of go anywhere and there's
22:45
a lot more freedom and you know you don't have to put up with a
22:48
lot. You can just be like well I
22:49
don't like it here. I'll just go somewhere else but
22:53
when you don't have that level of experience it's like you
22:58
don't have leverage, you know, you don't have anything that you
23:01
can really present to another employer and say like, hey, I
23:03
got this. Don't get me wrong, there's a
23:05
startups and stuff like that. Is there are options, but like
23:08
it's harder without That core experience net, where I'm at in
23:12
my life. Now I can't I'm not pursuing
23:16
marketing full-time or anything like I always wanted to be
23:18
freelance but if I wanted to get back into the full-time, swing
23:22
of things it'd be harder because I'm older, but it would be
23:25
possible. I just have to present it in a
23:27
way and I have a lot of experience now that, that would
23:30
be possible. But I remember when I was a year
23:33
in couldn't get anything, I was told, I was uncalled for even,
23:37
even two and a half years in. I was told, I didn't have enough
23:39
experience. It's you had to have at least
23:41
three to five years experience, and I saw a lot of these, these
23:45
jobs, what they actually asked for and then what those jobs
23:48
actually look like. And it's like, you don't need
23:49
three to five years experience. Not unless it's a specialized
23:52
field and requires a lot of knowledge and expertise and
23:55
stuff like that. A lot of the time, they're just
23:57
when you see these job descriptions, they're asking for
24:00
like fifteen hundred different things.
24:03
But actually you don't do most of those things in that
24:05
particular job and normally, they're just copy and paste it
24:08
from other. Job websites and just be like,
24:10
yeah, you know, we want the perfect person.
24:12
It's like, well, the perfect person doesn't exist.
24:15
It's like, yeah, you might have all the skills but you don't
24:16
have the experience or you have the experience.
24:19
But you don't have all the skills.
24:20
They'll always be something, you're lacking, you know.
24:23
But anyway, not yet saying no to things that aren't in your job
24:28
description. Well, This kind of goes back to
24:32
the whole peer pressure thing, doesn't it?
24:34
I mean, when your manager comes up to you and says, hey, such
24:39
and such person has left, could you please take on this role?
24:42
So not this well, that'd be different that be a different
24:45
conversation because then you'd be like, where's the money now?
24:48
But if they come up to you and they say, hey can you take on
24:50
these responsibilities? Because I would have been, I
24:57
would have been the person that would have said, yes, because I
25:00
would have felt like, okay, it's not that unreasonable, it's to
25:02
be expected, it's part of the role.
25:03
But here's the problem with that when you do that and you don't
25:08
ask for say a pay rise, you know, like a promotion,
25:13
something like that. Something to compensate the fact
25:16
that you're taking on more work, you're just taking on more work,
25:19
which means more pressure on you to get these things done because
25:23
everything has like a deadline every In has a time in which it
25:26
needs to be completed so you just putting more pressure on
25:29
yourself voluntarily. But again the other side of
25:34
things because people will say this and I totally agree.
25:38
If you say no. They've got a cause to kind of
25:43
turn around to you and say, oh well, you're not a team player
25:45
then. Oh, well, that's that's
25:47
concerning that you don't want to help the team.
25:48
You don't want to do this, you don't to do that, you know, you
25:52
could you could say something. Like I'm not sure that I would
25:55
have the time to pull that off but then you run the danger of
25:58
them saying, oh well I'll find someone who does have the time
26:01
who can pull it off, you know, you kind of damned if you do
26:04
damned if you don't in that situation.
26:06
And it sucks that it's like that because It basically just
26:12
creates this culture where you can't say not.
26:15
And that's not okay, that's never.
26:17
Okay, you should always be able to say no refuse things because
26:22
going back to the original point.
26:23
It's not in your job description.
26:25
It doesn't say that you have to do that, so why do you have to
26:29
do it? And if you now have to do it,
26:31
then we'll surely, we should create a new contract then,
26:35
which includes the in. But then, if I'm going to sign a
26:37
new contract with that new responsibilities and their your
26:41
- give me something in return. Whether that's, I don't know a
26:45
half day or maybe I'll work from home, a few days a week, or
26:49
maybe I am a bit more money in my paycheck or maybe you give me
26:52
a promotion, but you give me something.
26:54
That's what I'm saying. People don't accept all these
26:57
responsibilities for nothing asks for something.
27:02
Okay. Leaving work on time.
27:04
I kind of covered that before. There's not really much to add
27:10
to that really other than look, these are the hours you work.
27:15
You don't get paid for anything extra.
27:16
I think, unless they turn around to you and they say, hey, if
27:20
they say to you, if your manager turns around to you and says,
27:22
hey would you mind working these hours?
27:24
You'll be paid, blah, blah, blah, blah, or we have this
27:27
project? It's going to take x and x
27:29
amount of hours, you know, got hard deadline, blah, blah, blah.
27:33
All right, that's reasonable, that's fair.
27:36
They've asked you, you going to be compensated That's not
27:39
unreasonable. They just expect it of you or
27:42
there's that kind of weird peer pressure, thing of them, not
27:44
saying anything and just expecting of you.
27:47
That's not. Okay, that's never.
27:49
Okay, moving on. Refusing to answer emails, and
27:53
slap messages outside of your working hours.
27:55
Now, this one is a hot-button topic.
27:59
Point of contention. Sorry for anyone listening
28:01
that's me. Drinking my coffee when we
28:03
sounds absolutely disgusting. But I'm trying to stay awake for
28:06
you refusing to answer emails and slap messages.
28:11
Wow. my view on this is, I think, Their shit, okay.
28:22
If you say, you can reach me at any time and you agree to that,
28:27
then I think it's not that unreasonable for your employer
28:31
to sort of expect to be able to reach you.
28:33
Now, there's a caveat to this though, it's still your time
28:37
off. So, while they might be able to
28:39
ping you and ask you a quick question or something, you know,
28:42
or just say like, oh, hey, I'm just doing it because maybe your
28:45
managers working extra hours or someone's working extra hours,
28:48
they work in the weekend, but you're not and they need to know
28:51
something from You could paint them a question.
28:54
They can ping you a question and maybe you could answer that
28:56
question. I don't see that as being
29:00
unreasonable, however, if it then involves you doing more
29:04
work in your free time and then there's a expectation for you to
29:08
have to work. That's not okay.
29:11
You didn't sign up for that unless you're being paid to work
29:15
the weekend, you shouldn't have to do that.
29:17
So, I think when it comes to reaching someone out of outside
29:22
of work hours, you have to be respectful of that time.
29:25
For example, in my freelancing, my immediate manager.
29:32
I know I can reach him, you know, late into the evening, but
29:36
I'm not going to do that, you know, unless it's really
29:38
important, I'm not going to do that, I'll be respectful of his
29:41
time, you know? I messaged him recently on a
29:43
weekend and I apologized and he was totally cool with it.
29:47
But it was, it was a very simple question or comment or something
29:50
like that, but I didn't expect any work of him.
29:53
I fully expected that I think I messed him or Saturday or
29:58
Sunday. So I expected like, hey, I'll
29:59
probably receive Response on the Monday, and I was totally fine
30:03
with that. That's, that's what I think the
30:06
mentality should be, if someone messages you on a weekend and
30:09
you don't answer till the Monday.
30:10
That's fine. You know, there's many jobs,
30:12
I've had where I just didn't pay attention to the messages until
30:16
Monday. It's like I'm sorry but finish
30:18
on Friday. You need me message me on
30:19
Monday. If it's urgent it will have to
30:23
wait till Monday. I mean I mean less and less like
30:29
You agree to being contacted on the weekends, like, in your
30:32
contract. I think, then maybe you could
30:34
make a case for being alert but then still, You know, you're not
30:39
what those are not your contractor working days.
30:42
So it's again, it's another one black and white kind of thing,
30:47
and I think It ultimately comes up to you as an individual, or
30:50
do you agree to what are you comfortable?
30:53
If you're comfortable with answering messages on the
30:55
weekend? And it doesn't bother you by all
30:57
means, go ahead, you know, do what is right for you.
31:03
You know, if it turns into you having to do like work for a
31:06
couple of hours here, just let it wait till Monday.
31:08
Just just say, Hey listen I'll do that on Monday.
31:12
You know, for now let's just leave it here.
31:16
Do it on Monday, and we'll leave it there.
31:19
So moving on. Be warned that this is in the
31:24
article that people might receive backlash for setting
31:27
boundaries. That doesn't mean that you
31:29
shouldn't do it, but be prepared for not.
31:32
So positive reactions and consider how you will respond.
31:36
If you're asked what's going on. This is a very, very important
31:39
point because And as I mentioned earlier, you know, with the
31:47
whole, oh, you're leaving at that time, comment that there's
31:50
going to be instances where people, not just managers other
31:55
people. You'll get scenarios where let's
31:57
say you're leaving at the right time and other people on your
32:01
team who don't leave at the right time.
32:04
Pick up on that they might start stitching behind your back.
32:07
Bitching behind your back. They may even say something to
32:09
your manager And you've got to be prepared for that backlash.
32:13
You got a kind of be strong in your resolve and be like, this
32:17
isn't in my contract, these are my hours.
32:19
This is how it is, and you've got to stick by that and that's
32:23
not easy to do especially when you got pressure, especially
32:26
when maybe the majority of the people around.
32:29
You are saying hmm, why are you doing this?
32:35
It's not easy to stick by that. But I think it's it is necessary
32:39
to do that. I think it's important to do
32:41
that because the end of the day people are going to manipulate
32:46
you into doing things and that's not okay.
32:49
That's never. Okay.
32:50
You can't allow these people to manipulate, you fact of the
32:55
matter is and this is how I see it.
32:57
If it's not in the contract I ain't doing it.
33:02
There are certain times when you do people are solid when you
33:05
know, you do people favors but I think even And doing people
33:09
favors in the workplace, just just keep a record of that, you
33:13
know, because sometimes things can become habits.
33:16
Sometimes what started as a habit can then become an
33:20
expectation and that's when it's not, okay?
33:22
When people expect things of you for nothing in return, like I
33:27
give you a really good example. When I was working abroad.
33:33
I was obviously like a native English speaker in a foreign
33:36
country. So I'd get people from all
33:40
around this particular company that I work for and this
33:42
happened in other companies that work for in Europe.
33:47
They would send me, you know, a little messages through slack or
33:51
by email saying or hey, Christian, can you please like
33:54
proofread this now, that's reasonable.
33:57
That's okay, it's only gonna take me like a minute to do,
34:00
right? Now, sometimes people would send
34:05
through like 15 page documents and I'd say, Hey, listen, if you
34:11
want me to prove this, you're going to have to send me a task.
34:14
And this is going to have to be something that I allocate time
34:16
for that. You can't expect me to just like
34:19
just do it. And then, you know, maybe that
34:20
this is official work, this is going to take some time and they
34:24
were always lovely about it because these were people from
34:26
around, you know, the company and they understood and they
34:30
would do that. And And that was fair and that
34:32
was reasonable but there was kind of this expectation that
34:37
oh, well, you can do it. Your your native English
34:40
speaker, you can do it and it's like yeah, that's fine.
34:42
I can but still respect the fact that I have a job and
34:47
responsibilities and time you know and in the same is true of
34:50
like people coming up to your desk and asking you questions or
34:52
pulling you away for a meeting. It's like you have to respect
34:55
other people's time and realize that while you might be asking
34:59
them to do extra things. End of the day.
35:02
They've still got a job to do and when you're asking them to
35:07
do those things that's taking up their time that's interfering
35:11
with things that they need to do.
35:12
It could even be a situation where you're interrupting
35:15
someone and you completely kind of destroy, I don't know.
35:21
An hour's worth of thinking. So like let's say you like
35:23
you're a programmer or sort of the job like that, where you
35:26
need a lot of time to think and solve problems and such someone
35:30
coming up to you and distracting you at your desk or emailing you
35:33
with things, they need you to do, that can break that trail of
35:36
thought, and that can kind of completely destroy that
35:40
problem-solving bubble. Let's call it and and cause kind
35:44
of Havoc to you cause problems for you and it's not.
35:48
Okay. So to bring it back to the
35:50
point, you know. Yeah.
35:52
You have to accept that. You might receive this backlash
35:56
and you just need to be prepared for it.
35:59
You can deal with it. I believe, anyone can deal with
36:02
it, but it might even be the sort of situation where everyone
36:08
disagrees with you and you're the only one that thinks this
36:10
way. Sometimes it's like that but you
36:14
know what I think if it's a situation like that, it's not
36:17
the right place for you and you got to get out of that which
36:20
leads me to the next point, which I think is very important
36:24
with this whole topic of quiet. Quitting your job, find a new
36:29
job or alternative sources of income while you're still in
36:32
this job. This might seem like a really
36:35
obvious point, but one of the things that I wanted to stress,
36:39
as a really, really big important point with this whole
36:41
time. Back is that if you're quiet
36:45
quitting, people might notice, okay?
36:49
Which means the chances and likelihood of you getting fired
36:53
or being let go or whatever the case may be, are significantly
36:56
higher because people are going to notice a drop in your
36:59
motivation, a drop in your how hard you're working, how much
37:03
work you're getting done. There's a chance, they might not
37:06
notice. But there's a big chance they
37:07
will notice because there's going to be a difference.
37:10
You're no longer going above and beyond And you're no longer
37:12
putting in 110%. Some people are going to notice
37:15
that. So, what can you do?
37:17
Well, I think it's always important to have alternative
37:20
sources of income. Anyway, just as a backup.
37:23
You know, if you've got a bit of money lying around, you know,
37:26
invest it, put it into other things, you know, if you got
37:31
time, have a part-time job or have, let's say you're creative
37:36
as well and you know, you do like, I don't know, painting or
37:39
something. So your work, you know, just do
37:41
it. Things on the side side hustles
37:45
that you can earn income from. It doesn't have to be anything
37:47
that you rely on. But it's good to just have like
37:49
a nest egg for a rainy day or, you know, something else that
37:53
you can do that can earn you a little bit of money you know.
37:56
I know it's not always possible. I know that not everyone has the
38:00
time for that, I get that but if possible try to do that when it
38:05
comes to quiet quitting a job though, at the end of the day,
38:08
there's two things I think you have to think about one is that
38:12
in this new job, you're going to You might get asked for a
38:16
reference. And if you suddenly started
38:21
having a bad attitude or started, not really working as
38:25
hard in your previous job. I'm not, I mean, I know legally,
38:29
they're supposed to have to give you a good reference, but let's
38:32
say they call up your previous employment and they just talk
38:35
candidly. I mean, you don't know if
38:36
they'll do that, they could do that.
38:38
They might do that. And they might ask to speak to
38:41
your management team and maybe your management team will give
38:44
them a sort of an indication of the fact that you used to be a
38:47
hard. I could, but then, you know,
38:49
stop being interested and suddenly a progress kind of
38:53
started to dip. And they might look at that,
38:55
like, mmm. Well, we don't want to employ
38:57
someone like that. That might, you know, suddenly
38:59
be disinterested in six months or a year or we don't want to
39:02
take on that potential risk and so they might refuse you.
39:06
That's something I think that people should think about with
39:09
this quiet quitting. I don't want to call it culture,
39:13
but concept is that, you know, your you always have to think
39:18
ahead, any action in life? You always have to think ahead.
39:21
What is the consequences of these actions?
39:25
What could this potentially lead to good or bad?
39:29
That's what you have to think about.
39:31
So I think that a better thing to do is, don't get me wrong.
39:37
You don't have to be busting your ass every single day for
39:39
this job that you hate. But in the time that you do have
39:43
either away from the job or on your lunch break stuff like
39:46
that. Look for other jobs, go for
39:49
interviews, whatever you need to do to kind of put yourself out
39:53
there and also you know it'll be good for you and your mental
39:56
health in general. Like even if you're not Landing
39:58
anything you're not getting like Any leads or whatever, like it
40:03
might just make you feel better knowing that you're progressing,
40:06
that you're doing something about it.
40:08
But, you know, one of these interviews could lead to
40:12
something and, you know, things change pretty quickly, they
40:15
really do. I mean, what's those standard
40:17
notice period, is somewhere between two weeks to a month,
40:21
right? That means that if you find the
40:23
job that you're happy with a new job, I mean, you could be out of
40:26
that place in a month, it may be even less than a month.
40:30
You know, that's how quickly things could change.
40:32
So I think it's important to, to remember to just keep trying,
40:38
you know, to keep trying to find new jobs, whilst you're at your
40:42
current job and don't burn Bridges, try to keep things
40:44
civil. Try to keep things, you know, do
40:47
what you need to do to get things done, which brings me to
40:51
my next Point, give 80%, never give them everything because
40:56
they'll always set the bar higher and you won't reach it.
40:59
Now, I've covered this a little bit before.
41:01
I've been given this advice before in the story that I told
41:05
earlier, that's what people had said to me in the beginning, it
41:08
took me many years to realize this when you're working for
41:13
other people, you have to remember that.
41:17
Whatever is the bar that you set, when you come into that
41:20
company, that's the bar that they expect your work to be at
41:26
all times. That's the level that they
41:27
expect your work to be at all. Oops, and inevitably, they'll
41:31
try and push that bar higher. They'll give you more work, more
41:34
responsibilities. They'll they'll keep pushing it.
41:37
How much can we get out of you? And this is one of the ways that
41:41
burnout can happen because burnout can be self-inflicted.
41:44
Burnout can be something self-induced.
41:47
But in many cases, it can be as a result of the company.
41:51
Pushing you too hard. Now what happens, this doesn't
41:55
always happen. But often in these situations,
41:57
the company will push too hard. You'll burn out you'll get sick
42:01
or something, you'll take some time off and suddenly they're
42:03
looking to replace you because you know, you just can't keep up
42:07
with their culture. You can't you know, keep up with
42:09
the hard work and it's like, well, no one could, you know?
42:12
But this is the problem with a lot of companies.
42:14
These days is that they see people as numbers, they don't
42:16
see people as people they see them as replaceable resources.
42:21
I mean, look at the fact that human resources is called Human
42:24
Resources. It's not called like people
42:27
relations or human relations or It's called Human Resources
42:32
because that's exactly what they see you as not all companies
42:36
are. Now I'm going to get some heat
42:37
for saying that there's been companies I work for where the
42:40
HR were absolutely amazing, but in many companies you have to
42:45
remember, that's how they see you.
42:48
And the HR often tends to represent the interests of the
42:52
company rather than the interest of the employee.
42:57
This article recommends talking to your manager.
43:02
Oh, you know, maybe talking to to HR about your problems.
43:05
Now, I think. If you've got a good
43:09
relationship with your manager or the HR team and you're
43:14
confident that it might actually fix things.
43:16
Maybe you've seen it work for other people Etc.
43:19
Maybe they've been helpful in the past.
43:22
By all means. Go for it.
43:25
But always remember that whatever you tell these people
43:31
can be used against you. Anything even just fellow
43:34
colleagues, anything you tell people can be used against you
43:39
at a later date, including your actions.
43:42
You know, hard working days that times when you won't work in as
43:46
hard, it'll all be used against you potentially.
43:51
And if they're looking for excuses to get rid of you in a
43:55
particular situation, suddenly they'll pull up all this stuff
43:59
they have on you and that's when they can get rid of you.
44:04
I'm not trying to scare people here.
44:06
I'm not trying to say that. It's all doom and gloom and
44:08
that, you know, every company is out to get you and treat you
44:11
like crap. I'm not saying that there are
44:13
many wonderful companies to work for.
44:16
There's companies, I've worked for both in the UK and Europe
44:19
that are excellent, but There are many companies out there
44:23
that will expect you to kind of run rings for them.
44:28
You know, just always be jumping through their hoops and doing
44:33
everything that works for them but not thinking about what
44:37
works for you. It's very easy to lose yourself
44:41
in a company because of trying to, please them trying to make
44:45
the company. Happy, rather than yourself.
44:48
You have to remember that. Like, you're not trapped there.
44:51
Are you might have difficult circumstances with in your life.
44:54
Maybe you're relying on that job as a source of income or support
44:58
or whatever but you have to remember that like they can get
45:00
rid of you at any point. Nothing is ever secure.
45:04
Trust me. I'm a freelancer now, so it's
45:06
even less secure than having a standard job.
45:09
But like I've worked in workplaces before where people
45:12
have been working there, like six or seven years and got fired
45:15
on the spot. Just like that.
45:18
They didn't do anything wrong. They just want a culture, fit
45:21
managers didn't like them. There was an argument
45:23
disagreement over a project. Whatever, you know sometimes
45:26
people got fired because of other people's mistakes. they
45:31
have to remember, you're dealing with humans, you're dealing with
45:33
politics, you're dealing with company culture, It dealing with
45:38
people and whenever you're dealing with people, you have to
45:42
remember that they won't always do what's right for you or even
45:47
what's right for them. They'll do what fits within the
45:49
context of that situation. And it's a scary thought.
45:54
You know, when I started to realize this is how companies
45:56
work, this is how you have to navigate things, sometimes it is
46:01
scary, you know, I remember quitting one particular job.
46:06
Because I knew that they would fire me about two months before
46:11
it was going to happen. Now, here's a couple of signs.
46:18
One of the things was, I could see that my job was becoming
46:20
obsolete, which was nothing to do with my management team.
46:23
It was just, you know, technology technology is is
46:26
kicking our asses and it's fantastic in some ways, but it's
46:30
also something that makes certain things Obsolete, and I
46:35
could already see that was like, mmmm in a month or two.
46:38
This job will be obsolete, so where does that leave me?
46:40
Well, it means I knew that I had skillsets.
46:44
I knew that I had a lot to offer, but I'd have to Of
46:47
repackage it and resell myself to them.
46:50
Even though I've been there for a year and a half, and I'd
46:52
achieved a lot and done a lot. I had to repackage and sell that
46:56
to them. You're always having to sell
46:58
yourself to repackage the skills that you have, the knowledge
47:03
that you have and present that forward and go.
47:05
Hey, this is what I have to offer.
47:09
I could see that my job was going to be obsolete.
47:15
And the next step forward. Excuse me.
47:18
Everything is trying to stop me from finishing this podcast and
47:21
I won't let it. I will get this podcast out
47:23
there. The world needs to hear I knew
47:28
the I wasn't a culture fit there because I wasn't willing to lie.
47:34
I wasn't willing to throw other people under the bus and they
47:37
tried to do that to me. And I think I've told this story
47:40
before, either on the show or other people's shows but I've
47:46
worked in toxic workplace. As before I've, I've worked in
47:49
places where people lied and accuse me of things.
47:51
I didn't do in order to save themselves and this is managers
47:56
and what I understood about this situation was that, these were
47:58
high level managers within this company.
48:00
And I was just like a low-level employee, so it's very easy to
48:04
throw me under the bus and no one will care because I'm just,
48:07
you know, I'm lower on the totem pole.
48:10
I'm essentially like cannon fodder to them.
48:13
They tried it. They couldn't get away with it
48:16
because they didn't have any evidence on it, and I made them
48:18
look like fools, because I just told the truth and was like,
48:21
well, that didn't happen. This is how it happened.
48:24
And then those same people, then wanted to work on a project with
48:27
me. Now, what is the point of
48:30
bringing up the story? Well, my point here is that if
48:34
you're in a toxic workplace, like that around, people like
48:37
that. You got to kind of see the
48:38
writing on the wall before it happens.
48:40
In that particular job. I didn't quiet quit but I did
48:48
slow things down a little bit. I paid a lot of attention to
48:51
finishing off all the projects that I had.
48:53
And I made sure to just get what I needed to get done and
48:59
communicate that to the right people, but I didn't push myself
49:02
anymore. And it was interesting because I
49:05
realized at one point after it handed, in my notice about two
49:09
weeks in Nobody cared. And suddenly, I was already free
49:17
before I'd even left and it was kind of a crazy scary feeling,
49:20
but it already happened. And I was like, wow, I made the
49:23
right decision here. Like these people, they don't
49:25
care at all and this is how they would treat anyone in this
49:30
situation. I mean, I didn't do anything in
49:32
this situation. Imagine how they would have
49:33
treated me if I had done something wrong but in their
49:36
eyes it wasn't a coach. If it was a personal thing, I
49:39
don't know where that came from. There you go.
49:44
One of the final points, I wanted to raise on this topic
49:48
before I kind of close it down. Is that in situations where you
49:51
ask for, Less a like a pay rise and you're denied it or ask for
49:56
a promotion or anything like that.
50:00
I think you have to remember that.
50:02
And I mentioned this briefly earlier, but the company could
50:05
potentially start to kind of plan your exit from the company.
50:13
From that point onwards, Because if you present to them, this
50:18
idea that hey, you know, I'd like to, you know, get a
50:22
promotion I'd like to get more money because you know I'm not
50:25
is basically like you saying. I'm not happy with what I have
50:28
right now, which is true, which is true.
50:31
If you would carry on in that manner and in what you're
50:34
earning you wouldn't be happy. That's why you're asking for
50:37
more, you know? My point is if they'd say no
50:43
it's unlikely that you're going to be like, okay that's fine,
50:46
I'm happy with that. Like of course you're not happy
50:48
with that and now they know that you're not happy with that.
50:50
BAH are your manager, whatever. So what do you do?
50:56
I think that before you ask for a promotion or a pay rise or
51:00
anything like that, you should already be looking for other
51:02
work. I think it's always better to
51:04
just go to a different company, to be honest.
51:07
If you, like, I think it's always worth seeing what your
51:10
options are. Absolutely.
51:11
Always ask the worst you can get is no, but just remember that.
51:16
Once you've told them that you've kind of said like, oh hey
51:19
well I'm checking out and the problem with that is obviously
51:23
every company will act differently.
51:25
Some companies will react positively.
51:29
Some will act negatively. I would think my experience and
51:36
what I've seen from many many other people.
51:38
A lot of companies will react - it's not necessarily
51:40
unprofessionally but they will start looking at things like,
51:44
you know, offering to move you to a different part of the
51:48
company or or, you know, not exactly firing you but kind of
51:52
offering you the opportunity to resign You know, instead of
51:58
them, letting you go and stuff like that, where it's kind of
52:00
like an over to meet some situation or maybe they just
52:03
might let you keep working there but they're just kind of like
52:05
phase you out Zone you out which is almost kind of worse in a
52:10
way. So bringing this all kind of
52:14
putting a bow, all of this today, quiet, quitting your job.
52:19
I think through reading this article through talking about it
52:23
with you guys and just thinking about it in general, my kind of
52:28
perception on this is that it's a bad idea.
52:31
I think it has more. And it's funny because I started
52:35
this with, with kind of like a positive mindset of like, oh
52:38
yeah, you know, maybe this is a good idea.
52:40
I think it's a terrible idea, I really do because I think that
52:44
you're essentially saying to your future employers like hey
52:47
if I'm not happy at any point this is what you've got to look
52:51
forward to. It's me just switching and not
52:53
caring but at the same time I'm not saying that you should put
52:59
up with the job that you hate. Either, I don't believe in this
53:02
idea of giving 110% into, you know, a company that most likely
53:09
will never reward you for doing that.
53:13
I think the only time it's ever actually worth doing that is
53:15
when you're working for yourself, because no one else is
53:19
going to put in that same level of effort into that thing that
53:24
you love because it's your thing, you know, people are
53:26
always going to put maximum effort into themselves into what
53:30
they Joy or the things that the people they love enjoy Etc,
53:35
right? They're not going to bust their
53:37
ass for someone else unless they've kind of got lucky.
53:40
I don't know, a share in the what that other person is doing
53:44
or stake in in their business or a vested interest or maybe even
53:48
just like you know they just really passionate could be like
53:50
a charity or NGO, something like that.
53:53
But they have a vested interest in what that thing is.
53:58
And that's what keeps it all out as a dog outside.
54:01
I was wondering what that was. That's what keeps them invested.
54:07
But it is difficult to obviously stay invested when you know,
54:12
you're not being rewarded. And but I mean I get that a lot
54:16
of people can be to content, but I think the whole point of this
54:19
conversation today is when you're not content.
54:21
What do you do while? I think it's always better to
54:25
look at, you know, your options. Look at applying for different
54:29
jobs. Look at finding alternative
54:32
resources, you know, income streams Investments, whatever
54:37
you can do outside of the company.
54:40
Use your time wisely to find other ways of making money.
54:44
A, and just think about yourself, you know, think about
54:48
your own interests. And what you need to do to make
54:51
sure that money keeps coming into your account, every month.
54:53
And the, you can pay the bills and you can look after yourself
54:56
and take care of yourself. Make decisions that will
55:01
facilitate you being able to do that.
55:04
I don't think quiet quitting is a good idea.
55:06
I think it makes you look bad and I think that it's only going
55:13
to hold you back. There's my two cents.
55:15
Let me know what you think of quiet quitting.
55:18
Let me know if you want me to talk about other particular
55:21
topics because I'm trying to expand this podcast.
55:24
This was obviously a bonus episode.
55:26
I didn't have this planned but I hope you enjoyed it.
55:30
Yeah, let me know thoughts. Let me know what you think.
55:32
Let me know if you want to hear me talk about other things and
55:35
as always be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next one.