Latest / No Dirt No Flowers Podcast / Traveling Mics @ San Diego Hop EXPerience / Ft. Jeremy Moynier, J.T. Albright & Teddy Gowan

Transcript

Traveling Mics @ San Diego Hop EXPerience / Ft. Jeremy Moynier, J.T. Albright & Teddy Gowan · No Dirt No Flowers Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello everyone and Happy New Year! Welcome to
• 0:02
  the first episode of 2026. For this episode,
• 0:06
  we took No Dirt No Flowers on tour for our first
• 0:08
  episode on the road. We recorded this episode
• 0:11
  at Stone Brewing right before we had our very
• 0:14
  first hop experience of the year. And it features
• 0:16
  Jeremy Moinier and JT Albright from Stone Brewing,
• 0:19
  Teddy Gallen from Society Brewing, as well as
• 0:21
  Joe Masarocco and myself. It was a pretty full
• 0:24
  room on this recording, so also in the background
• 0:26
  is Laura Olick from Stone Brewing, Megan Toomey
• 0:29
  from Latitude 46, and Jovan Gonzalez from Society.
• 0:31
  It's a very fun episode filled with laughs, insights
• 0:34
  into the hop and brewing industry, and even a
• 0:37
  fun little game of word association. Enjoy the
• 0:40
  episode. We're live now? We're live now. Uh -oh.
• 0:53
  Uh -oh. The pressure starts. Oh, boy. Jeez, everyone
• 0:56
  got all serious all of a sudden. All right, so
• 1:00
  we're here at Stone in San Diego prior to the
• 1:05
  beer experience. And sitting here with Andy Roy,
• 1:10
  Jeremy Moyet from Stone, JT Albright from Stone,
• 1:16
  and Teddy Gowan from Society. Yeah, we're down
• 1:21
  here having a little pre -chat. Our event's going
• 1:23
  off tonight. And I thought this would be a great
• 1:26
  chance to try our first mobile recording, which
• 1:30
  I have no idea how this is going to go. It'll
• 1:33
  be fine. It's going to be great. It's all going
• 1:36
  to work out. It's all going to work out great.
• 1:37
  So, yeah, thanks. And, yeah, I think for people
• 1:41
  that don't know you guys, which I'm sure most
• 1:43
  people listening do, but maybe a quick round
• 1:45
  on your backgrounds. And then I got a question
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  after that, but let's start with your backgrounds
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  real quick. Jeremy. Yeah. So innovation supply
• 1:56
  chain here at Stone. Been here for 22 years.
• 2:01
  So it's been a bit. One of the OGs around here.
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  Before that, I was in wine for eight years up
• 2:07
  on the central coast of California. Yeah. I grew
• 2:12
  up in San Diego. Graduated with a literature
• 2:15
  writing degree. so I had no clue what I was going
• 2:18
  to do, and left town, went to Colorado, skied,
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  and then eventually found myself on the Central
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  Coast, got some family and friends up there,
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  and then got into wine, and then got laid off,
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  and decided to move back home, basically, and
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  yeah, then beer in San Diego at the time, so
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  it was 2003. and there was 35 breweries in town.
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  I was like, oh my God, there's so many breweries.
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  And I was always into wine and beer. That old
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  saying, it takes a lot of good beer to make great
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  wine. So I got really into craft beer while I
• 2:58
  was in wine. Saw that a few breweries were hiring.
• 3:01
  Stone seemed like a good fit. Thought it would
• 3:04
  be a temporary job. It was a cellar tech, then
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  became a shift brewer, and then it just kind
• 3:10
  of spiraled out of control from there. In a good
• 3:13
  way. Yeah, in a good way. And these were the
• 3:15
  good times, right? These were the rock and roll
• 3:16
  days of craft. They're not like that now? Well,
• 3:20
  you know, more of a maybe acoustic set now. Yeah,
• 3:27
  that's kind of it in a nutshell. Cool. Yeah,
• 3:31
  so I'm JT Albright. I'm the senior sourcing manager
• 3:34
  here. I've been here about four years, almost
• 3:36
  five now, which is pretty crazy to think about.
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  Before that I was at Lagunitas for a little over
• 3:42
  three years and before that doing procurement
• 3:45
  stuff for large global manufacturing companies
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  and your friends and family find your job a lot
• 3:50
  more interesting when you're working in beer
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  instead of buying you know welded metal boxes
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  or low voltage electrical switchgear or plastic
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  whether it be you know the resin pellets or the
• 4:00
  molded part so I was definitely happy to make
• 4:02
  the escape to beer and you know my All my grandparents
• 4:07
  grew up on farms, so that's another aspect I
• 4:10
  really like about working in beer is that relationship
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  with the hop farmers or the barley farmers. They're
• 4:15
  great people, those farmers. Yeah, it just feels
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  like kind of a taste of home because my grandparents...
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  Retired on the land that my grandfather grew
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  up on in Oklahoma, so about 100 acres or so.
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  So had lots of summers there doing farm entertainment,
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  and we can maybe get into that. But I think Andy,
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  you and Mike got into a lot of that growing up
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  as well. A little bit, yeah. Yeah. Eddie. Yeah,
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  I'm the VP of Brewing at Society Brewing Company.
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  I started here as a brewer 11 years ago. I'm
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  from upstate New York. Right after college, I
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  started at a brew pub, scrubbing floors at a
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  brew pub, and then I sort of worked my way up
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  there. And it was in a ski town. It was great.
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  Honestly, I would live in that town if I still
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  could. But I took a job in Shanghai, China, for
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  a little while, for two years, making beer. And
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  then my brother -in -law lived in San Diego.
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  And from China, we were looking, and we found
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  Redlands, which is not that close to San Diego.
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  But from China, it seemed super close. So we
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  pulled the trigger, and I went to Hangar 24 for
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  a few years as a shift brewer, worked the overnight
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  shifts. It was a 20 -barrel brew house, and we
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  were making 40 ,000 barrels. So we were cranking,
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  learned a lot. Things were happening really fast.
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  And then my wife got into grad school down here
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  in San Diego, and it was not a difficult decision
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  to come look for a job down here. And I was able
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  to find society just after second anniversary
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  I started. So I started on the brew house and
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  then sort of worked my way into it. managerial
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  position here over the times. Yeah. Learning
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  a lot along the way. I'd also like to point out
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  that I don't know if this is a true statement,
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  but you might be our biggest fan. I do love this
• 5:58
  podcast. If you want me to, I could talk for
• 6:01
  a solid 10 minutes of why this is my favorite
• 6:03
  piece of content. I thought he worked for you
• 6:04
  guys. You were definitely on my Spotify rap.
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  There's no question about that. It is required
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  listening over at Society. Yeah. Yeah. If you
• 6:14
  go to Harvest, it's required. Yeah. How did we
• 6:16
  get here? Volume two is definitely. Love it.
• 6:18
  You should listen to all of them. But with your
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  dad in there, that whole conversation is. Oh,
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  yeah. I love to bring him back this year. He's
• 6:26
  definitely a favorite. Yeah. Well, the perspective
• 6:29
  to just, you know, old craft breweries only 30
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  years as an old craft brewery. But you guys have
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  been generations. And I feel like you've got
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  like. sometimes our tempo is too fast and you
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  guys can kind of slow things down, you know,
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  and the whole perspective of what's going on
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  and the ebbs and, you know, for us, most of us
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  have just been in it when it's been going up.
• 6:49
  It's going to go down? What's the going down?
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  You guys are like, oh, this is like the hundredth
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  time we've seen this. This is no surprise. This
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  is just a part of the process. Yeah, no one likes
• 6:59
  the downs, but they do happen. Yeah, it's a part
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  of it, right? So I've got a question. So, I mean,
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  a lot of what we're going to talk about is brewing,
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  but one of my goals for 2026 is to weave the
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  story of the people that we're talking to into
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  the topic of beer and what they like to do. What
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  are their other passions? So, I mean, because
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  I think like passion influences passion. And
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  so what's your passion outside of beer? Well,
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  music right away. I was going to be my guest,
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  but. Yeah, yeah. Besides just going to shows,
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  I play piano too. Been in a few bands. I actually
• 7:38
  played with Teddy, which got to get that going
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  again. Wait, what was the band name? I don't
• 7:43
  even know if we had a name. No? No, we just played
• 7:46
  around. Okay. We had a stone band for several
• 7:49
  years. Really? And it was called the Flockulators.
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  And we actually did. Yeah, we were pretty good.
• 7:58
  We had some big guest stars like Kerry Kelly,
• 8:00
  Kyle Hollingsworth. from string cheese sat in.
• 8:04
  Nice, really? Yeah, but it was... Dueling keys?
• 8:07
  Yeah, dueling keys. No, music's amazing, whether
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  it's going to shows or playing. I haven't played
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  in a bit, which is depressing, but I keep looking
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  at Teddy because, yeah, we talk about it a lot.
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  Yeah, we did a collab and we played in the back
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  for the collab. That was one of the most fun
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  collabs. If I would have known this prior to
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  the beer experience, I may have tried to get
• 8:30
  you guys to... To get up there. We're a little
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  rusty. We need excuses, though, to force us into
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  doing it. Like Harvest 2026? Yeah, that'd be
• 8:40
  great. Let's do it. Sounds like you're playing
• 8:42
  the Harvest Party. Sound good, Teddy? Yeah. I'm
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  in. All right, it's on the record. There you
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  go. So music, definitely a passion. Cool. For
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  me, I would say probably soccer. That's something
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  I've done for a long, long time. Wake up early,
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  watch. you know english primary league games
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  uh joe and i will talk arsenal so that's our
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  favorite team so yeah there have been many times
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  we're on a meeting we're like do you watch the
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  game this weekend and you know it's 40 minutes
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  on that and 20 minutes like oh yeah we got to
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  work sorry let's get to it you know so yeah done
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  that a long time did it competitively growing
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  up played in the youth system for the emls team
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  in dallas and then had like some d2 d3 offers
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  but decided i'd rather do you know school for
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  school and get the college experience because
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  I thankfully saw some of my friends from high
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  school go do that, and I went, ooh, that's a
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  tough life being a college athlete. And I'd rather
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  go somewhere for school instead of, like, just
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  to play a sport and then try to figure it all
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  out. You and my 9 -year -old would need to chat
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  because he wears a soccer jersey to school every
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  day. That's all he thinks about. Oh, yeah. It's
• 9:44
  part of the attire. Yeah, one of the cool things
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  at times when my dad flew international for Delta.
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  some of the time growing up and he'd always come
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  back with like a jersey from wherever he was
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  that'd be somewhere in england or like i have
• 9:57
  a argentina messy jersey when messi was still
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  number 19. so this is when he was like just breaking
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  onto the scene with argentina so that's hiding
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  in the closet and if you know all else fails
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  financially i guess i could sell that for a couple
• 10:09
  hundred bucks nice let's hope it doesn't come
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  to that yeah i know that's that's not like we
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  uh emergency plan yeah Keep making those good
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  hop contract decisions and you should be fine.
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  Yeah, exactly. Teddy? Yeah, music, like Jeremy
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  said. I like playing music. It's a nice release.
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  Just use your brain a little differently and
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  play music, especially playing with people, too.
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  It's a good, yeah, especially after a long day.
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  It's a nice release and just super fun. And also
• 10:39
  ice hockey is my, that's my deep passion. Yeah,
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  I've been playing my whole life. My whole family
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  plays. My nephews play. My brother's all coach.
• 10:50
  My son is three. I haven't started coaching him
• 10:52
  yet. I'm on the ice with him a little bit, but
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  I'm excited for that chapter to get into coaching.
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  Yeah. Yeah. You should plug the event. Yeah,
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  we do an event every year. This is our eighth
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  year we're doing this called Pucks and Pints
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  where you wouldn't believe it, but there's an
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  entire team, two teams of brewers in San Diego
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  that play ice hockey. We play against each other,
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  and then we do a little beer festival. And then
• 11:14
  we go watch the Gulls, too. So you can watch
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  fun hockey and then really good hockey. So it's
• 11:19
  a good. What is that? It's March 14th this year.
• 11:23
  Yeah, it's super fun. Honestly, that's the most
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  fun part. Jeremy, have you missed? You maybe
• 11:27
  missed one for CBC because we timed it incorrectly.
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  It's a great event. It's a blast. It's a long
• 11:33
  day. It is a long day. You've got to pace yourself.
• 11:35
  That's key. Yeah, but it's great. brings the
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  beer industry together in kind of a different
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  light. People who love hockey. And it's honestly
• 11:46
  just hanging out. That's what it's all about,
• 11:48
  too. What about CBC hockey? CBC, yeah, you guys
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  do that. I've done that now three years, I think.
• 11:56
  Yeah, so that's great. He just finds the ice
• 12:01
  and then we go. The hard part is finding the
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  time to do it because there's so many night events.
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  So we end up playing at like 7 in the morning,
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  which is honestly helpful for the hangover, but
• 12:10
  it's difficult to get. You don't get a lot of
• 12:12
  excitement around it. It's really just the hockey
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  players. Joe Moorfield always comes. He's always
• 12:16
  a... No, no, no. It's been close. It's been close.
• 12:20
  We just kind of pull, you know, you just get
• 12:22
  off the ice if it's coming. Well, thanks, guys.
• 12:25
  I think it's actually a good segue into... the
• 12:31
  beer experience and why we're here. And yes,
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  there's new varietals and we're looking at creative
• 12:36
  ways of using them and how they express themselves
• 12:40
  in beer. But I also feel that beer and what we're
• 12:47
  going to do tonight and what you guys just talked
• 12:49
  about has a lot to do about community and hanging
• 12:53
  out with friends and industry professionals.
• 12:58
  And so that's something that I think about a
• 13:00
  lot is, like, underneath all this, and we really
• 13:03
  start drilling down, like, what is it that is
• 13:06
  attracting us to these events and maybe beer
• 13:09
  or, like, beer venues in general. And I think
• 13:12
  that, in my mind, we really – I can distill it
• 13:15
  down to community. And so I think that's kind
• 13:18
  of a side note. But as far as the beer experience
• 13:21
  goes, tonight we're going to have at Society,
• 13:24
  I might have my – brother andy who's here uh
• 13:29
  in place of drew drew couldn't make it down unfortunately
• 13:31
  but i might have andy talk a little bit about
• 13:35
  what the beer experience is and and what we did
• 13:40
  in seattle for the first time and what we hope
• 13:42
  to repeat um through these events and then get
• 13:45
  your guys's perspective on what it was like brewing
• 13:49
  with these varietals and um i'm gonna go on from
• 13:52
  there yes hi Thanks, Mike. So yeah, the original
• 14:00
  hop experience kind of came out of just wanting
• 14:04
  to try and basically kick the tires on a lot
• 14:06
  of experimentals that we've kind of been having
• 14:08
  in the program that we've just kind of been sitting
• 14:10
  on. The breeding program kind of was in a little
• 14:12
  bit of a holding pattern, just because of the
• 14:16
  way the market was and everything like that.
• 14:18
  We haven't really expanded anything recently,
• 14:20
  except for Adina. And so we wanted to try and
• 14:23
  just get these varieties out and just see how
• 14:26
  they doing beers because like you may have something
• 14:28
  that smells great on the table but until you
• 14:30
  get into a beer you don't really know what the
• 14:32
  viability of it is so we threw a little um event
• 14:36
  last year at the bell breaker tap room in uh
• 14:40
  ballard we had about 10 11 beers on last year
• 14:46
  yeah on last year and it was just a great way
• 14:48
  to kind of see what varieties carry over into
• 14:52
  the beer ones that may have been like just like
• 14:55
  one hill, several hills that have just been real
• 14:59
  standouts in beer. And so it was a great turnout.
• 15:03
  It was a nice brewer -only event. It was just
• 15:05
  kind of a nice throwback to kind of the good
• 15:07
  old days of just hanging out, talking about beer,
• 15:09
  talking about hops. It was very low -key, very
• 15:11
  fun. And we wanted to try to expand upon that
• 15:14
  this year. And so we are having our first one
• 15:16
  at 26 tonight at Society. Thank you, Teddy. Got
• 15:22
  to get the jockey boxes situation figured out.
• 15:24
  But we will. We will. And then we'll be having
• 15:27
  one next month in Austin, Texas at Pine House's
• 15:30
  Ben White location on February 20th. So this
• 15:33
  is like our opportunity to take some hops that
• 15:35
  people are very excited about during harvest
• 15:37
  and kind of get those into beers and see how
• 15:40
  they perform, see if we should expand them or
• 15:43
  if we should just kind of... put them in the
• 15:44
  back burner for a while, and it's just kind of
• 15:46
  a fun way to kind of interact directly and get
• 15:48
  these new hops out to see what the viability
• 15:51
  is because there's a lot of varieties out there
• 15:55
  right now, and we don't want to just add another
• 15:57
  white noise hop that's kind of like a fill -in
• 16:00
  -the -holes type of variety. We want to find
• 16:02
  something that is agronomically sound, solves
• 16:06
  solutions that brewers have, whether it be a...
• 16:10
  financial solution or a aroma flavor solution,
• 16:13
  or ideally both. So we are having that. We have
• 16:17
  12 beers on tap tonight. We have beers from Stone
• 16:22
  Society, Carl Strauss, Coronado, Pure Project,
• 16:27
  Alesmith, Pizza Port, Paperback, Radiant, yes,
• 16:32
  and Highland Park. I think that's it, right?
• 16:35
  Yes. So, yeah, very excited to taste the beers.
• 16:37
  We have four varieties from the Latitude 46 breeding
• 16:41
  program and two varieties from the Crosby breeding
• 16:43
  program. So it's very exciting to kind of love
• 16:46
  these varieties. We've never tasted a beer before,
• 16:48
  so it'll be fun tonight to kind of see how they
• 16:50
  do. I would say, too, that one of the changes
• 16:53
  from the first beer experience to the second
• 16:56
  and moving forward is that we are collaborating
• 17:00
  with Crosby Hops on their new experimentals as
• 17:03
  well. And one of the pieces of feedback we got
• 17:07
  when we did the first beer experience that stuck
• 17:10
  with me is that people were saying how fun it
• 17:14
  was and it felt like the old times. You know,
• 17:18
  I mean, kind of, Teddy, you talked about this
• 17:19
  rocket ship of craft that has taken off over
• 17:23
  the last handful of years or 10, whatever, you
• 17:25
  know, plus years. And so while we might not be
• 17:29
  able to recreate that. In terms of growth, hopefully
• 17:33
  we can tap back into some of the things that
• 17:35
  help propel it around community and conversation
• 17:39
  and just having fun. So that's one of the things
• 17:42
  I hope to see tonight. So no pressure. Thanks,
• 17:47
  Mike. Yeah. Let us know if you want to have any
• 17:51
  hop experiences in your neck of the woods because
• 17:53
  we are. Always looking for new areas and new
• 17:57
  brewers to reach out and test these varieties
• 17:59
  with. We're currently looking for an East Coast
• 18:02
  -ish. Yeah, we're currently looking for an East
• 18:03
  Coast hop experience. We have a couple ideas,
• 18:06
  possibly CBC. We're still working around what
• 18:08
  we're going to do at CBC, but there will be some
• 18:10
  sort of activation there with us and Crosby.
• 18:13
  I think that pretty much covers it. So you're
• 18:16
  going on tour. Yeah, I know. I love that. Rockstar
• 18:19
  status. It's back. I know. I like it. It's a
• 18:22
  very fun, exciting time, and it seems like it's
• 18:27
  going to be a very good, well -attended event
• 18:29
  tonight. So to tee up the question more, this
• 18:32
  is what I have around new varietals. There's
• 18:35
  a lot of new ones out there. What are you guys
• 18:37
  looking for? You're seeing behind the curtain,
• 18:42
  Teddy. I like this. This is cool. This is how
• 18:46
  you do it. It all makes sense now. Teddy's like,
• 18:51
  never meet your heroes. That's great. Both you
• 19:04
  guys worked with ADHA 1631, which is one of our
• 19:06
  more advanced varieties. a lot of new varieties
• 19:11
  out there that are coming out and what do you
• 19:15
  guys look for and how do you kind of put them
• 19:18
  through to see if they match what you need i
• 19:21
  mean aroma profiles are always changing for what
• 19:25
  a consumer wants you don't sometimes you don't
• 19:26
  know what a consumer wants so what do you kind
• 19:29
  of look at and kind of search for in new varieties
• 19:33
  and how do you evaluate them Yeah, small question,
• 19:38
  right? I'll just say from our perspective, we've
• 19:40
  done this for years, for years. We've had like
• 19:44
  kind of a basic West Coast IPA recipe. We've
• 19:47
  kind of expanded on that to do a few other styles.
• 19:50
  But we just approached it as we're always just
• 19:54
  looking at what's out there. We want to know
• 19:56
  what's out there and in turn want to help our
• 19:59
  partners and our friends develop what they want
• 20:02
  to develop. um i see megan over here you know
• 20:06
  we you guys have been doing these sensory evaluations
• 20:09
  during harvest on the hops for years so it's
• 20:12
  cool to see it kind of morph into an event where
• 20:16
  you can actually do sensory and so i think that's
• 20:18
  great but yeah for us i don't know if it's i
• 20:22
  mean yeah we're looking for stuff maybe you know
• 20:25
  maybe we're looking for berries at some point
• 20:28
  or some attributes but really i think it's just
• 20:30
  more broader we want to know what's out there
• 20:33
  And we just really dig, you know, doing sensory
• 20:36
  on the hops, talking to you about the hops, and
• 20:38
  then making the beer. And then giving the feedback,
• 20:41
  because that's the real key, is sending you the
• 20:44
  beer, sending you our sensory notes, and then
• 20:47
  having that, you know, and you doing the same
• 20:49
  back to us. It's good for all of us, and it's
• 20:53
  just fun. And I think it just helps us, you know,
• 20:57
  go forward and innovate. That's what we're always
• 21:00
  looking to do. Did I go way off on a tangent
• 21:04
  or did I answer the question? Yeah. For 1631,
• 21:07
  that's one that we've liked for a while now.
• 21:10
  And I don't think we previously, I think this
• 21:12
  is the first time we brewed with it, right? And
• 21:14
  yeah, it was really cool. Steve Gonzalez, who
• 21:19
  does... our innovation kind of on the smaller
• 21:22
  scale he actually did a hazy first so that's
• 21:25
  a kind of a newer recipe we've newer a couple
• 21:28
  years and it was really cool but i don't we were
• 21:30
  talking about this earlier it i don't think it
• 21:32
  gives you exactly what the hop is just because
• 21:35
  of you know the the way the yeast reacts and
• 21:38
  um just that style of beer and i we just did
• 21:41
  the west coast single hop and i think that really
• 21:43
  shows you a better expression point of yeah this
• 21:46
  is what this hop can be in beer And Mike said
• 21:50
  earlier that he doesn't usually like single hop
• 21:52
  beers. I did say this. And he does like this
• 21:55
  beer, so that's kind of cool. True. So I think
• 21:57
  that gives a little more oomph to that hop, possibly.
• 22:01
  Yeah. So Megan just asked, what would it take
• 22:11
  for, in this case, Jeremy or Stone, to accept
• 22:15
  a hop into their portfolio? brewing portfolio.
• 22:19
  We got to have a space for it, right? So that's
• 22:22
  the tough thing. And especially nowadays where
• 22:25
  we've we have less, you know, less varieties
• 22:29
  out there right now of beer. We've scaled back
• 22:32
  in the in the last few years. I mean, that's
• 22:34
  industry wide, right? Yeah. Like pull back, focus
• 22:36
  on your core brands. Exactly. Focus on what moves
• 22:39
  for national profit margin. Yeah. We still have
• 22:41
  the outlets where we can do the smaller stuff
• 22:43
  with our restaurants and tap rooms. But to really
• 22:47
  get it into something, right now our options
• 22:49
  are some smaller releases, maybe one batch on
• 22:53
  the production scale. So a fair amount, but we're
• 22:56
  not talking volume into the grocery store. But
• 22:59
  it's always in the back of our mind. Where can
• 23:02
  it go? And if it's going to go volume, then we've
• 23:05
  got to make sure that, point over at JT here,
• 23:08
  that we can get the hops and we can get a contract,
• 23:12
  et cetera. It's not an easy answer. Because we
• 23:15
  want to use everything that we love, but there's
• 23:19
  limited space. Yeah. Yeah. And it's tough with
• 23:23
  those single releases, right? From someone of
• 23:26
  our size to sign a contract for it, right? Because
• 23:28
  a lot of the smaller releases... don't come necessarily
• 23:32
  with a true commitment so it's kind of hard we're
• 23:35
  all doing the finger in the wind if i think it'll
• 23:37
  be this or i think this year we've gotten at
• 23:39
  least a little better on some of the smaller
• 23:42
  releases we're going to do this year where we've
• 23:43
  been able to signal ahead of time how much we
• 23:47
  might want that's more kind of purchased on spot
• 23:49
  but that grower knows hey we only need like 400
• 23:52
  pounds for our you know smaller release which
• 23:54
  yes is a huge quantity compared to maybe some
• 23:56
  other breweries but for us relatively small yeah
• 23:59
  and that's kind of the way to do it because then
• 24:02
  we can prove the concept we have some sales data
• 24:04
  on hey here's how well it did just out of our
• 24:06
  breweries or in our southern california market
• 24:08
  where then if tastes continue to change or if
• 24:11
  let's say retailers want more variety again we've
• 24:13
  got a lot ready to go for them that's using new
• 24:17
  hop varieties that may not be in our current
• 24:19
  core portfolio yeah yeah and back to andy's comment
• 24:22
  it's one of the reasons why the breeding program
• 24:24
  just kind of sat there idle for a number of years
• 24:27
  is we didn't know if breweries were interested
• 24:30
  in new varietals you know i think more often
• 24:33
  than not we like to focus on solving a problem
• 24:35
  rather than just releasing something new there's
• 24:39
  also that component of the program, too, that
• 24:42
  we're focused on. So, yeah, it's a tough space,
• 24:45
  but it's nice to come together for an event and,
• 24:49
  like you said, Jeremy, just have fun. And, yes,
• 24:53
  we have not forgotten about Teddy. I mean, they
• 24:57
  said everything so well. Yeah. Yeah, I mean,
• 25:00
  I was going to. We mostly ask Jeremy what his
• 25:03
  thoughts are on a hop when we're coming through.
• 25:05
  Because there's never been a hop I've asked him
• 25:07
  about that he hasn't played with or done something
• 25:09
  with, just using the resources available around
• 25:12
  you. But a lot of times for us, we do a single
• 25:16
  hop. It's funny you say you don't love single
• 25:17
  hop beers. They're not always the best beer,
• 25:19
  but we don't have a pilot system. So the 20 barrel
• 25:22
  system is our... That's how we know how it interacts,
• 25:25
  how the hop's going to interact with the rest.
• 25:27
  Unless we rub something we really like, we're
• 25:29
  going to put it in that single hop beer first
• 25:31
  to get an idea. Could we blend this here? Could
• 25:34
  we put it over there? And we've got a quarterly
• 25:36
  IPA release that we do that we'll sprinkle hops
• 25:39
  in. If we like something, we'll kind of move
• 25:41
  it up, use a little bit more the next year and
• 25:44
  kind of see how it plays again. Because through
• 25:46
  the harvest, too, you don't necessarily know.
• 25:48
  they evolve as you guys prop up more volume.
• 25:52
  And just kind of getting to know what that hop
• 25:54
  really is and how it interacts with our beers.
• 25:57
  We've definitely made the mistake of getting
• 25:59
  excited and over -contracting and then not having
• 26:02
  a home. Who has it? What? Yeah. Who has it? That
• 26:05
  is the worst feeling in the world. So we've gone
• 26:07
  a little bit more, we're a little more gun -shy.
• 26:10
  You're the only one that's experienced that.
• 26:12
  Yeah. I know what you're talking about. We got
• 26:14
  real excited about that one and that beer completely
• 26:16
  fell apart. But a lot of times, again going back
• 26:19
  to it if that hop can play well with other hops
• 26:22
  if if we can pull that into the portfolio and
• 26:25
  that brand dies we can put it somewhere else
• 26:28
  without you know we can sort of pack it in over
• 26:30
  here without you know it's not gonna deviate
• 26:33
  the flavor profile so it allows us it gives us
• 26:36
  more wiggle room if it's not like a really unique
• 26:39
  flavor sometimes for us is it's almost too polarizing
• 26:42
  and any amount in I can think of a few varieties
• 26:46
  that's like, we're not even going to use this
• 26:47
  in bittering because the entire beer is going
• 26:49
  to be affected by that. So if we can sort of
• 26:52
  move things around a little bit, it's... Yeah,
• 26:55
  a key thing or word that we look for in varieties
• 26:59
  is versatility. Yeah. Because it may be like
• 27:02
  super unique and super interesting, but if it
• 27:04
  only plays in one style or type of beer, then
• 27:08
  it's not going to have the legs to kind of expand
• 27:11
  and grow and be able to use in multiple different
• 27:13
  beer styles. I was just thinking about Drew's
• 27:16
  favorite slogan, the ultimate wing hop. He hates
• 27:22
  it. Plays well with others. Plays well with others
• 27:27
  is probably better. I mean, one other thing I
• 27:33
  was thinking about around new hop varietals is
• 27:36
  new hop products, which are obviously extensions
• 27:39
  of these existing varietals and new varietals.
• 27:43
  So one of the things that first got shoved in
• 27:45
  my face last night was this hazy beer made by
• 27:49
  a local brewery. And it smelled like a bong and
• 27:56
  tasted like tangerine. And I thought it was really
• 28:00
  interesting. I had two beers last night that
• 28:04
  I probably normally wouldn't gravitate towards
• 28:08
  that were really great. Well, I usually don't
• 28:11
  go towards single hopped beers. It's something
• 28:14
  that I would like repeatedly drink. But Teddy,
• 28:17
  the 1631 that you guys brewed, I thought was
• 28:19
  really good. And then this other beer that had
• 28:24
  a very heavy THC aroma and tasted like tangerine
• 28:28
  that didn't have the aftertaste, I thought was
• 28:30
  really interesting. I'm not sure how much I would
• 28:31
  drink of it, but it was really good. So with
• 28:34
  that being said, I mean, are you guys looking
• 28:36
  at... So advanced products, new hot products,
• 28:40
  I'm assuming you are, but how much of a role
• 28:45
  do you see those playing moving forward? Because
• 28:48
  just like new varietals, there's a lot of new
• 28:50
  products out there. I mean, I've seen a lot of
• 28:55
  acceptance in the industry for those products,
• 28:58
  a lot of other breweries using them. For us,
• 29:01
  we trial everything, like I said earlier, and
• 29:05
  we... We would love to use them, and we've found
• 29:08
  ways to use them in small doses, but we've kind
• 29:13
  of struggled finding something that we're like
• 29:15
  totally stoked on. We still, pellets still, T90
• 29:20
  still seem to be, you know, really good for us.
• 29:23
  What about concentrated pellets, you guys? Yeah,
• 29:26
  so some of that as well, and we're actually doing
• 29:28
  more in that space. Some of the oils and other
• 29:32
  stuff that's out there, we've played with and
• 29:34
  really enjoyed the results, but haven't seen
• 29:37
  it as a broad to put into a core beer. We've
• 29:41
  used them in special releases or smaller releases.
• 29:44
  So kind of a long answer to just say, yeah, I
• 29:48
  think there's a place. And some of the efficiency
• 29:50
  stuff is interesting, especially if it can give
• 29:53
  you more yield. But we haven't found that, aha,
• 29:57
  oh, my God, this is the answer magic. bullet
• 30:00
  yet yeah the challenge is you know you'll use
• 30:04
  it but at a higher cost per unit even though
• 30:09
  you're using less you don't always see the yield
• 30:12
  improvement to offset that increase your cost
• 30:14
  of goods sold so it's hey this is great we liked
• 30:17
  it however it's made our beer more expensive
• 30:19
  so sadly we're just not going to use it and then
• 30:23
  that can be brew house specific too correct i
• 30:25
  mean you know I mean, one, this is not my area
• 30:28
  of expertise, but one comment I remember a brewer
• 30:32
  making to me was, well, we have that centrifuge
• 30:34
  over there, so we're getting, you know, a lot
• 30:36
  of the what would go to waste, beer that would
• 30:39
  go to waste out of that. So we don't see the
• 30:42
  efficiency gains that another brew house might
• 30:44
  see. Yeah. Yeah. As one example. We've had similar
• 30:49
  experience. Again, it's like we'll do it. So
• 30:52
  we've got the quarterly release that we'll put
• 30:55
  some hops in, and then we do collabs. And the
• 30:56
  collabs are kind of, we have a little bit more
• 30:59
  fun, so we'll try some different products that
• 31:01
  other brewers have used. And again, we get the
• 31:04
  flavor. We're excited about the flavor, but then
• 31:06
  when it comes to the cost on a larger scale,
• 31:08
  it becomes really difficult to see the margin
• 31:11
  increase on the efficiency. That side of it is
• 31:14
  harder to line up. The cola stuff? I was worried.
• 31:19
  I was wondering what you're... Oh, yeah, I was
• 31:21
  waiting for you guys to start asking each other
• 31:22
  questions. This has been a hot... We've been
• 31:25
  talking about this a lot in the supply chain
• 31:26
  and technical for the BA. We don't know necessarily
• 31:30
  what's in a lot of these hot products. There's
• 31:32
  so many new things coming out there, and do you
• 31:34
  need a cola? Does it need to say natural flavors
• 31:37
  on the can for certain things? And it's not...
• 31:40
  perfectly clear all the time from the brewer's
• 31:42
  perspective so that's definitely an aspect i
• 31:44
  don't know if you want to yeah just to say that
• 31:46
  yeah that's something brewers need to know yeah
• 31:48
  if it's going to affect labeling for sure and
• 31:51
  whatever paperwork you have to do yeah there's
• 31:55
  natural flavors maybe that's something we don't
• 31:57
  want to use or maybe something we don't care
• 31:58
  about but there's a lot of i think components
• 32:01
  there that It seems like it's getting better
• 32:04
  for clarity, but it's got a little ways to go,
• 32:06
  I think. Yeah, a lot of times that answer is
• 32:07
  just like proprietary. And you're like, well,
• 32:09
  what am I? Are we giving them propylene glycol?
• 32:12
  What's the agent that they're using to make this
• 32:15
  product? So it's difficult. You know, you've
• 32:18
  really got to back to trusting your supplier,
• 32:20
  but there's so many new ones coming out, especially
• 32:22
  with the weed space entering over into the hop
• 32:25
  space. I'd be curious to hear your guys' thoughts
• 32:27
  on that as far as. As far as what our perspective
• 32:30
  is? Well, my perspective is that I really don't
• 32:37
  want to see anything cannibalize the hop space
• 32:40
  more than it's already been cannibalized by a
• 32:43
  mature market, generally speaking. With that
• 32:46
  being said, I also acknowledge that, you know,
• 32:50
  the brewing and the hop industry at large is
• 32:54
  a... evolving process and there will be new products
• 32:58
  and we need to understand them and deal with
• 33:04
  them as a vertically integrated grower. And so
• 33:08
  how do I specifically feel about some cannabis
• 33:12
  professionals coming into the hop space? I probably
• 33:17
  have mixed feelings about it. I think the most
• 33:21
  challenging thing from our perspective kind of
• 33:24
  being involved with some of these products, either
• 33:27
  on the sidelines or directly, is that there's
• 33:33
  another hurdle because it's not our technology.
• 33:36
  Sometimes it's their technology. They have their
• 33:40
  own agenda, balance sheet, investors maybe, and,
• 33:46
  you know, I could keep running down the list.
• 33:48
  And so the hop industry. in my career is been
• 33:54
  so relational that even if you suspect or know
• 34:01
  that that relationship isn't going to carry on
• 34:03
  forever, at least you kind of can understand
• 34:05
  the other persons or the, the, your customers
• 34:09
  like where they're coming from and how or why
• 34:16
  they need to go in this different direction.
• 34:18
  And so when you kind of add this, outside influence,
• 34:23
  it just adds this whole other layer of complexity
• 34:29
  that I haven't really fully wrapped my head around
• 34:31
  yet, which is kind of maybe why I'm describing
• 34:35
  this very slowly, because I'm wrapping my head
• 34:37
  around it right now. Now, if you go to some of
• 34:42
  these product types that position themselves
• 34:45
  to replace hops, I'm quite against those. But
• 34:51
  I think if we're looking at hop oils, I mean,
• 34:54
  there's a long list of those out there. I think
• 34:57
  that, to your point, Jeremy, I think they're
• 35:01
  probably going to play a role in specific cases.
• 35:05
  I haven't seen where it's going to just mass
• 35:09
  adoption, wipe out a bunch of hops. It's another
• 35:15
  tool in the toolbox. Yeah. It's a pretty exciting
• 35:18
  time, really, for a brewer. There's so many options
• 35:20
  out there. Oh, absolutely. New yeast that's creating
• 35:22
  all sorts of different flavors. I mean, we want
• 35:26
  choices, and gosh, we've got a lot of choices
• 35:30
  right now. The big X factor in all that is us
• 35:35
  being more long -in -the -tooth, mature beer
• 35:39
  drinkers and brewers. We kind of know what we
• 35:43
  like and we don't like. So things like if we
• 35:47
  use like T90 or like some concentrated pellets
• 35:50
  or like that, that gives us the aroma, flavor,
• 35:54
  mouthfeel that we all have been drawn to our
• 35:57
  whole drinking lives. But we don't know what
• 35:59
  the next beer drinker is going to latch on to.
• 36:02
  It may be something that it uses those products
• 36:04
  heavily. It may not be. So you... all need to
• 36:10
  basically try everything out to see what works
• 36:12
  and what grabs. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Yes,
• 36:15
  subtlety we found is key in a lot of those, at
• 36:18
  least at the start. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you
• 36:20
  can accent something pretty quickly with not
• 36:23
  very much, and you can easily overdo it if you
• 36:26
  go a little heavy -handed. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All
• 36:30
  right, guys. See you in a while. See you tonight.
• 36:34
  Teddy, back to your question. And speaking candidly,
• 36:38
  Roy Farms' perspective on whether all these new
• 36:43
  products and varietals coming into the space
• 36:45
  is it creates a lot of complexity for us as a
• 36:48
  supplier. We are a vertically integrated supplier
• 36:52
  that has breeding program, growing, processing,
• 36:56
  but the additional needs of processing that are
• 37:01
  coming down the pipeline, whether that's a concentrated
• 37:05
  pellet or oil extraction, It poses us with the
• 37:09
  question internally, do we want to participate
• 37:11
  in that or not? And I would say historically
• 37:14
  we've maybe opted out of some of these advancements,
• 37:18
  which I think has really hurt us, generally speaking,
• 37:21
  because... I think that in some cases, as a supplier,
• 37:26
  you need to offer a portfolio of products and
• 37:29
  not just one or two. And that can be a gateway
• 37:32
  into more business. It could just be a convenience
• 37:35
  aspect to the brewer. It's like, well, yeah,
• 37:39
  I could get some T90s from you, but I can also
• 37:42
  get, you know, T45s and a... in an extract over
• 37:46
  on this supplier and it's just a lot simpler
• 37:48
  and they're giving me better terms and I can
• 37:51
  roll all this up into, you know, one purchasing
• 37:53
  package. So I think right now we're selectively
• 37:58
  opting into offering more than less, which is
• 38:02
  a good thing. Um, but it also adds, you know,
• 38:06
  more, more investment in some cases or like with
• 38:09
  Crosby, you know, I think in that case it's working
• 38:12
  out really good because they have a concentrated
• 38:14
  pellet line. That was not the reason to partner
• 38:17
  with Crosby, but it's definitely a benefit is
• 38:21
  that we can better utilize this asset collectively
• 38:25
  instead of having redundancy across the supply
• 38:27
  chain. So, I mean, I could probably keep going
• 38:30
  on it. I think it definitely has made us reevaluate
• 38:36
  our business plan and we need to be doing more
• 38:40
  than what we were doing. It's interesting, too,
• 38:42
  because it comes down to bandwidth, right? You
• 38:44
  guys grow hops, and you know how to grow hops
• 38:47
  really well, and then the more you spread out.
• 38:49
  The resource. Yeah. I think about self -distribution.
• 38:52
  We were doing that for a while, and it was like,
• 38:54
  we are not a distribution company. We don't know
• 38:56
  how to run routes. It was like, let's cut our
• 38:59
  losses there. Let's focus on what we know how
• 39:01
  to do and stay in our spot here and then outsource.
• 39:05
  Oh, yeah. I mean, not to get in my soapbox, but
• 39:08
  I hear what you're saying. I also think that.
• 39:11
  The environment that we're in, if you're going
• 39:14
  to be a supplier, you need to be completely vertically
• 39:18
  integrated with the products and varietals, if
• 39:21
  you can, that the brewers want in order to be
• 39:24
  a player. I won't even say a dominant player,
• 39:27
  to be a player in this industry now and moving
• 39:31
  forward. Because, I mean, there's just over and
• 39:36
  over I, we have gotten. burned by not having
• 39:41
  access to some thing and then you just get shut
• 39:44
  out of the market and so we obviously don't want
• 39:46
  to you know get too far out over our skis and
• 39:51
  to your point do something that we can't be the
• 39:55
  best at quote unquote but uh but we do need to
• 39:58
  be doing more than just growing hops because
• 40:00
  and you know not to point fingers but if If our
• 40:05
  destiny is dependent upon another sales desk
• 40:08
  making the decision to want our product, then
• 40:10
  I just don't think we would survive. And you
• 40:13
  don't think you could do some sort of tolling
• 40:15
  agreement that would get it to you at the price
• 40:17
  and the processing timeline you would want? Well,
• 40:19
  I mean, it depends on what we're talking about.
• 40:20
  Like, you know, I mean, if we're talking about,
• 40:22
  I mean, probably the most simplistic example
• 40:28
  would be like CTZ extract. Could we go? If we
• 40:33
  were looking for a CTZ extract or just, you know,
• 40:37
  bittering extract, could we go toll process that
• 40:41
  through somebody? Maybe we're going to get deprioritized
• 40:46
  to start off with, and so we're going to get
• 40:48
  pushed all the way back to the production schedule.
• 40:51
  There could be they could strategically say no
• 40:54
  to us to block us out of the sale. and that's
• 40:59
  just the top two examples that have happened
• 41:01
  repeatedly right and so you want control so you
• 41:05
  can be able to yeah yeah yeah it's interesting
• 41:09
  too you're like a water guy though your passion
• 41:10
  is in the field right this is the but then you're
• 41:13
  finding ways to yeah i mean you have to expand
• 41:16
  ultimately i joke about this but i will have
• 41:21
  arrived Is it at Nirvana? Is that it? Or I will.
• 41:25
  Yeah, it works. I will arrive. I will arrive
• 41:30
  when I'm full circle and driving through the
• 41:34
  fields on a tractor when that's when that's my
• 41:36
  job. And so but to get to that point, yes, we
• 41:42
  need to run our business. And our business right
• 41:46
  now is a vertically integrated, you know, sales.
• 41:51
  Farm and. Yes, our specialty, I like to think,
• 41:55
  is growing hops, which I think at the end of
• 41:59
  the day it is. That doesn't mean that we can't
• 42:01
  be good, great at other things. If you just take
• 42:07
  sales as an example, Roy Farms has kind of ebbed
• 42:12
  and flowed in its success around sales. And some
• 42:16
  of that has had to do with tiptoeing through
• 42:19
  the market and being worried about making this
• 42:22
  person mad or that person mad. And we have a
• 42:25
  large amount of product going to this person,
• 42:27
  so I don't know if I should do this. And I think
• 42:31
  we've ripped the Band -Aid off that, generally
• 42:33
  speaking, which has been a good thing. But yeah,
• 42:38
  I mean, we've also had to revise our strategy.
• 42:43
  Not to get too long -winded on this, but as an
• 42:47
  example, right, would it be smart or wise of
• 42:52
  us to go try and recreate another, to be another
• 42:57
  merchant? I don't think no. But combining resources
• 43:01
  with, you know, Crosby and maybe some others,
• 43:04
  you know, and having that ecosystem function
• 43:08
  like. another merchant, I think is a good idea.
• 43:15
  And well, to answer your question, do we know
• 43:19
  how to create a concentrated pellet? No. Do we
• 43:22
  want to put a concentrated pellet line in right
• 43:23
  now? No. Uh, would we stumble on that one? Probably
• 43:27
  a little bit. Could we do it? Yeah. But it makes
• 43:29
  way more sense just to partner with Crosby on
• 43:31
  that one. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, yeah.
• 43:35
  So we're, we're, we're solving the same problem,
• 43:37
  but through partnership. Yeah. But a lot of conversation
• 43:42
  here, and I'm trying to pull together all of
• 43:45
  my multiple thoughts that I've had just listening
• 43:47
  to people talk, because I never want to not talk.
• 43:50
  But to get you back on a tractor needs that we
• 43:57
  still have to have something to grow, and that's
• 43:59
  where it all starts, right? It's kind of key.
• 44:02
  Hops are here, right? And hops aren't going away.
• 44:06
  But isn't this conversation ultimately a product
• 44:09
  of craft beer, of the offering of more? So I
• 44:13
  think of my limited beer background, brewing
• 44:16
  background, and my extensive brewery background.
• 44:19
  I'm an old school T90 pellet guy. I think that
• 44:25
  that should be what beer is. But also when I
• 44:28
  started drinking craft beer. It's because I wanted
• 44:31
  something new and something different. So, like,
• 44:33
  this is a part of the cycle of craft beer is
• 44:36
  to have advanced products, different ways of
• 44:40
  production. You know, we're speaking specifically
• 44:44
  to hop products. But we are, Laura said earlier,
• 44:50
  like, what was your dad's beer? And we had a
• 44:53
  little conversation about that. What we are drinking
• 44:57
  today. It's like craft doesn't even have the
• 44:59
  multiple generations. We're multiple generations,
• 45:02
  but it's almost like hop extract, and it's years
• 45:07
  old. So we haven't even gotten to the point where
• 45:12
  we could say, yeah, it's life cycle, because
• 45:15
  we are such a short life cycle, if that makes
• 45:18
  any sense. I don't know. I would prefer a beer
• 45:21
  with T90, but I've had some other beers that
• 45:25
  I really enjoyed. that use some other products
• 45:28
  so and i think it's ultimately a product of craft
• 45:31
  because we are trying to do stuff that's not
• 45:34
  the norm so to speak and i was only asking those
• 45:38
  questions from the passion side just because
• 45:40
  we run into this all the time like do we should
• 45:42
  we make a seltzer should we go into rtds yeah
• 45:44
  nas are here what's a fad what's going to stay
• 45:47
  we're we're up against the same questions that
• 45:50
  you guys are you know different but similar as
• 45:53
  far as bandwidth and what what you allocate resource
• 45:55
  into and we've we've kind of stuck with like
• 45:58
  we've west coast ipa is our lane and we're going
• 46:01
  to hold there because that's what we're passionate
• 46:02
  about that's what we like to do every day we're
• 46:05
  hoping the market will will stay with us there
• 46:08
  but uh it's definitely a decision to make from
• 46:11
  a resource allocation yeah and and we've seen
• 46:15
  i mean obviously we've been invested in t90s
• 46:19
  for a long time we see t45 stain and so you know
• 46:23
  we've got a solution for that and go ahead i
• 46:25
  have this is a tangent question so keep but i'm
• 46:28
  just curious about farm fresh hops oh yeah and
• 46:30
  your guys thought process on Okay, let me finish
• 46:35
  my thought. Yeah, exactly. I was like, this is
• 46:37
  like a mild tangent. No, it is a good tangent.
• 46:42
  Yeah, we're trying to be strategic. We can't
• 46:45
  offer everything, but I think that we can offer,
• 46:48
  you know, three, four different product lines
• 46:53
  and, you know, two or three of those are new,
• 46:57
  but they're very strategic and one of those is
• 47:00
  through a partnership. So, I mean. The answer
• 47:02
  is kind of like yes and. But yeah, speaking of
• 47:07
  another product line that's kind of ebbed and
• 47:09
  flowed, you had a question about Harvest Fresh
• 47:12
  Pellets? Yeah, just kind of your thought process
• 47:15
  on it. Well, I mean, this, I guess if you want
• 47:18
  to call it a product line or a process, started
• 47:21
  with Mr. Jim Boyd. And he, so if you rewind,
• 47:29
  we bought. uh, farm that had a pelletizer on
• 47:34
  it. And we were actually didn't know what to
• 47:37
  do with it. And we're actually going to sell
• 47:41
  that pelletizer to Doug McKinnon, I believe is
• 47:45
  who it was or somebody. And then we ended up,
• 47:48
  it's another rabbit hole. Yeah. So we ended up
• 47:53
  not selling the pelletizer because Jim Boyd,
• 47:58
  we'd hired Jim Boyd at the time, and he had the
• 48:00
  idea to use the pelletizer for pelletizing our
• 48:04
  aromas. And it was his idea to run them through
• 48:08
  at time of harvest, skipping the bale. And we
• 48:12
  had some customers and Lagunitas was probably
• 48:18
  the biggest one that drove that decision. They
• 48:21
  were taking a lot of our hops and they. felt
• 48:25
  that there is a noticeable difference in the
• 48:28
  dry hopping impact by using the Harvest Fresh
• 48:30
  pellets versus the industry standard at the time.
• 48:35
  Looking back, I do think that some of that differentiation
• 48:41
  was because the industry at large was not pelletizing
• 48:46
  their product in a very compressed window. It
• 48:50
  was still very spread out over the year. Because
• 48:54
  that was the way that they had kind of geared
• 48:57
  the infrastructure at the time was to get better
• 49:00
  asset utilization, spread it out over the year,
• 49:02
  and sort of like investing in more and using
• 49:04
  it in a shorter time frame. You're already doing
• 49:06
  that with all the picking equipment, right? Yeah,
• 49:09
  yeah, yeah. And so I think that's where some
• 49:13
  of the differentiation was. And then specifically
• 49:16
  probably around the public varietals, because
• 49:21
  around the same time, the HBC varietals were
• 49:26
  blowing up, and that got the priority. So you
• 49:30
  had kind of these two layers of, I guess, negative
• 49:34
  impact on the Publix, which was the core of our
• 49:40
  aroma profile at the time, Cascade, Centennial.
• 49:44
  So those were getting deprioritized, probably
• 49:47
  from a harvesting window and also from a post
• 49:52
  -harvest processing. So there probably really
• 49:55
  was a perceivable difference in what we were
• 49:57
  doing and what the industry at large was doing
• 49:59
  because we were taking these publics, and that
• 50:02
  was the backbone of our program, and prioritizing
• 50:05
  the harvesting of them at the proper time and
• 50:09
  then pelletizing them at time of harvest. So
• 50:12
  there probably was a massive difference. I'm
• 50:15
  not sure what the difference would be today as
• 50:19
  people, I think, have moved back to hopefully
• 50:22
  prioritizing the entirety of the portfolio and
• 50:26
  not getting too heavy in any one variety. I know
• 50:31
  that still happens and it's kind of, if you're
• 50:34
  going to be invested in a program or a company,
• 50:37
  it's going to naturally happen to some degree.
• 50:39
  Like as the simplest example probably is like,
• 50:42
  you can't be all in on Simcoe and Centennial,
• 50:45
  you know, it just, you're going to have, there's
• 50:49
  going to have to be some give and take, or you're
• 50:50
  going to have to really lower. The production
• 50:54
  of, you know, one of those two. And so, but with
• 50:58
  that being said, I think the industry has gotten
• 51:00
  a lot better at trying to, because they've seen
• 51:03
  the negative impacts of just ignoring a variety,
• 51:06
  right? Is that the sale goes to somebody else
• 51:09
  who's doing it, who's prioritizing it. So we,
• 51:15
  oddly enough, you know, last year we did less
• 51:18
  Harvest Fresh. From a logistical point of view,
• 51:23
  because we usually end up with some extra product
• 51:28
  that ends up in inventory. And if we go to a
• 51:31
  brewer, it's usually fine. If we go through a
• 51:34
  merchant, it's a problem because they want to
• 51:36
  have their pellets in their box. And so we really
• 51:39
  need to be holding it as bales. And so last year
• 51:44
  we kind of pivoted away from some of the harvest
• 51:48
  fresh stuff that was heavily divided. between
• 51:51
  direct and merchant and then this year we're
• 51:55
  going back into more harvest fresh on on those
• 52:01
  varietals that may get more fragmented in distribution
• 52:05
  from a cost perspective because last year because
• 52:09
  this year we started running the numbers on what
• 52:12
  it cost us to bail and then evaluate and then
• 52:18
  allocate and then pelletize You know, and it
• 52:21
  was a pretty substantial number. So I think we're
• 52:24
  going back to like, what is the most efficient?
• 52:26
  And if we don't think that there's a problem
• 52:28
  in the quality, then that's the way that we want
• 52:32
  to do it. Although there's always exceptions.
• 52:34
  And so, you know, some large purchasers that
• 52:37
  take multiple lots and want them blended. Well,
• 52:41
  we, that, and they like, let's say they represent
• 52:43
  70 % of that varietal. We're going to have to
• 52:45
  bail and go through the selection process. And
• 52:49
  then the. allocation and blending in the pelletizer.
• 52:53
  So it's complicated. Yeah, it totally is. That's
• 53:00
  cool insight into how it came about and where
• 53:03
  it's at. Because I noticed there was more flour
• 53:06
  on the table this year. I feel like it's almost
• 53:08
  always pellets with you guys. That's why I was
• 53:09
  curious what caused the transition. And from
• 53:12
  a moisture perspective, does it change? Because
• 53:18
  most of the moisture is checked in the bale,
• 53:21
  right? Yeah. So you're skipping the baling step.
• 53:24
  So how are you getting that moisture dialed before
• 53:26
  it goes? I'm geeky now. I love it. So, okay.
• 53:30
  So first of all, the Delmhorst moisture probe
• 53:33
  that is the industry standard, I believe is an
• 53:36
  alpha. What? I was just going to say you're testing
• 53:38
  just one spot and one bale. Well, there's that
• 53:40
  too. But it starts like with the meter that you're
• 53:43
  using. So when you get it into the bale. You've
• 53:47
  ever seen those probes that people probe the
• 53:49
  bale with? Yeah. So that originally came out
• 53:52
  of the alfalfa industry, I believe. And so it's
• 53:56
  a number that is correlated to a standard compression
• 54:02
  and temperature. And so, like, let's say if you
• 54:07
  stab the bale, probe the bale, and it's a...
• 54:12
  220 pound bale versus 180 pound bale even though
• 54:17
  there's there would be a standardized level of
• 54:20
  water in that bale it's going to read differently
• 54:22
  on the moisture probe so you know you want to
• 54:24
  try and get the compression or the pounds as
• 54:27
  stabilized as possible and then you want the
• 54:29
  temperature to be stabilized because that's that
• 54:31
  can influence the moisture reading as an example
• 54:35
  if we put bales into a freezer and then ship
• 54:37
  them we have this issue this year and then we
• 54:40
  ship them to the the merchant and they probe
• 54:42
  them they're gonna read like low and so then
• 54:46
  they reject them we're like well then we gotta
• 54:48
  bring them back and let them thaw out and like
• 54:50
  you know let the probe read accurately anyway
• 54:55
  so how about holy versus pellet on the table
• 54:58
  it is because we did more bales this last year
• 55:01
  we also changing our selection process i mean
• 55:07
  we're doing more selection we're trying to get
• 55:09
  it standardized across the industry our pellet
• 55:12
  die size changed you know from the smaller pellet
• 55:14
  to the industry standard kind of issue when we're
• 55:18
  trying to move inventory after harvest is like
• 55:21
  well your pellet size is different it's like
• 55:23
  well all right so we just even though there was
• 55:26
  reasons why we thought that could be better we
• 55:29
  just went to the industry standard And we're
• 55:31
  trying to show more leaf, and some of that is
• 55:33
  that we're doing a more robust sampling program
• 55:37
  and retained sample program so that we can show
• 55:41
  the leaf even if some of that might be sitting
• 55:44
  in pellet. We'll show the pellet and the leaf,
• 55:46
  but if the industry standard is leaf, then we
• 55:48
  can show the leaf. Because in order to get the
• 55:52
  QC where we want it to be, the QC program where
• 55:56
  we want it to be, whether it's going into a bale
• 55:59
  or a pellet, we will bale up, you know, three
• 56:04
  bales and we'll watch the, because once again,
• 56:08
  when you put, when you bale, the moisture is
• 56:11
  going to read different when you test it off
• 56:13
  the press or 12 hours later and centennial will,
• 56:17
  everyone says it wicks up, but it's not wicking
• 56:19
  atmospheric moisture. It's just equalizing because
• 56:22
  when the, if the cone hasn't equalized its water
• 56:26
  content, that probe only tests what it's coming
• 56:29
  in contact with and so like a centennial has
• 56:31
  a very thick core and so the moisture probe is
• 56:35
  coming percentage wise is coming into a less
• 56:40
  of that cone or the total water content than
• 56:42
  on a variety where the water is more evenly distributed
• 56:45
  so so it's like if you got to let the water equalize
• 56:48
  across the whole cone so that the probe is coming
• 56:51
  in contact with the the like the right amount
• 56:55
  of i guess like surface area and that surface
• 56:58
  area is holding the equalized percentage of water
• 57:02
  so so we we always bail up bales and then we'll
• 57:07
  take core samples out of that whereas in the
• 57:09
  past we've probably tried to limit that more
• 57:11
  because it's an extra cost but since we're trying
• 57:15
  to standardize things we'll take more samples
• 57:17
  before were you guys just like it's Sending it
• 57:20
  through the pellet mill? Yeah, we would just
• 57:21
  send it straight into the, we'd still do the
• 57:23
  bales because we want to understand what the
• 57:26
  industry standard moisture content is. But we
• 57:28
  would just, you know, we probably wouldn't take
• 57:31
  that many samples because taking samples is costly.
• 57:34
  And we would, we're trying to move in the direction
• 57:37
  of selecting off pellet, which to me makes a
• 57:39
  lot of sense because that's the final product.
• 57:43
  But, you know, I mean, I understand the feedback
• 57:46
  we've given too, which is. Well, our teams come
• 57:49
  through and they're trained on this and they're
• 57:51
  doing this everywhere else. And so it is a different
• 57:56
  selection experience. It totally is. But I mean,
• 57:59
  I think it's something everybody can get used
• 58:01
  to. You know, we obviously we select more on
• 58:06
  whole leaf, but we've done a lot of pellets as
• 58:09
  well. Yeah. And I think we're getting better
• 58:11
  at it. But it's just it's a different intensity.
• 58:13
  Yeah. It's a different thought process in your
• 58:15
  sensory brain when you're. looking at pellets
• 58:18
  compared to a whole leaf which seemed to be more
• 58:20
  intense and more lack of a better word simple
• 58:23
  to select but i think it's just a matter of people
• 58:26
  getting used to it and being trained on it i
• 58:29
  always thought the quality side made sense yeah
• 58:31
  you know we just boom pick it yeah right through
• 58:34
  it pelletize it the moisture is mostly for the
• 58:37
  bale stability right um is it also some flavor
• 58:41
  there's some flavor yeah i mean typically if
• 58:43
  you dry on the drier side it'll pop more on the
• 58:49
  table. So you'd have the same exact hop, same
• 58:54
  exact lot. One's eight and a half, one's nine
• 58:58
  and a half. You're probably going to pick the
• 59:00
  eight and a half more often because it's going
• 59:01
  to pop more. That's interesting. Which is interesting
• 59:08
  because ultimately at the end of the day, we
• 59:10
  get paid off water content too. So if we're drying
• 59:13
  a percent less of water, And you guys yield,
• 59:17
  right? Yeah. It's less total pounds. It's like,
• 59:19
  we're knocking take 1 % off 6 million pounds
• 59:22
  of hops at $7 a pound. It's a number. Yeah. So
• 59:28
  from a, from like a yield perspective, we want
• 59:31
  to deliver as, as high a water content as we
• 59:34
  can, but it's not going to get selected as often.
• 59:38
  So there's a balance in there. Yep. And then,
• 59:41
  and then also too, it runs more effectively.
• 59:45
  Most varieties will run through the pelletizer
• 59:46
  better if they're lower water content. That's
• 59:49
  what I was going to ask. Because if you're not
• 59:50
  totally sure when you're farm fresh going, you're
• 59:52
  like. I mean, we just kind of shoot for what
• 59:55
  we feel is going to give the best quality. And
• 59:58
  it's going to be the most repeatable, which is
• 1:00:00
  probably going to be around 9%. And so it's going
• 1:00:02
  to vary a little bit. What do you think about
• 1:00:05
  sample variability, like different cuts from
• 1:00:08
  the same lot? Because that really opened my eyes
• 1:00:11
  a few years back when I saw that, like the same
• 1:00:14
  lot, but it was, you know, four different bales,
• 1:00:18
  five different bales or whatever. I got a thought,
• 1:00:21
  and JT just, you know, teed that question up,
• 1:00:25
  you know. It's like, well, it's one sample out
• 1:00:27
  of one bale, you know. I see Joe has a thought.
• 1:00:31
  Yeah, I mean. this year was the first year we
• 1:00:35
  did it more than previous years and there was
• 1:00:40
  a brewer that came in and uh we we put samples
• 1:00:45
  in front of them and they were like this this
• 1:00:48
  isn't good so mike and i were there and the yenny
• 1:00:54
  uh who kind of runs all she does way more than
• 1:00:58
  this but she was running the samples this year
• 1:01:00
  And we were like, hey, can we get some more samples?
• 1:01:02
  And they came, and they weren't great. It also
• 1:01:06
  had to do with some container, how we were moving
• 1:01:09
  them from one place to another, 100 yards, but
• 1:01:12
  whatever. And the brewer was like, nah. And then
• 1:01:16
  we pulled four different samples. on this for
• 1:01:21
  this one brewer and finally i don't know if that
• 1:01:24
  brewer was just tired of us doing it or not uh
• 1:01:27
  but he was like oh my god this is the best i've
• 1:01:29
  ever smelled and so it they were all from different
• 1:01:33
  bales in in different places in in a cooler so
• 1:01:36
  uh but same lot same lots yeah that's really
• 1:01:41
  well yeah and i think that that had some uniqueness
• 1:01:45
  to it where we had samples in one location, samples
• 1:01:50
  in another location, because this is the first
• 1:01:52
  year that we did such a massive amount of samples.
• 1:01:57
  Well, the amount of logistics around selection
• 1:01:59
  in general is mind -blowing. For us, we're like,
• 1:02:02
  we need another sample. It's like, what does
• 1:02:03
  that actually entail for you guys on the back
• 1:02:06
  end? It's easy for us to demand more, but there's
• 1:02:11
  a lot of orchestration I know you guys are doing.
• 1:02:14
  I mean, yeah, there's a... There's a very noticeable
• 1:02:18
  cost to selection and sampling. I mean, at this
• 1:02:22
  point, it's a needed thing. I think the process
• 1:02:24
  could be improved upon. And Jeremy, you talked
• 1:02:27
  about it where, you know, I think we could get
• 1:02:28
  used to sampling pellets. And I mean, you guys
• 1:02:33
  probably have gotten better at it. But you guys
• 1:02:37
  are like one out of, you know, whatever. And
• 1:02:39
  the reality is the majority of the industry either.
• 1:02:43
  can't wrap their head around it doesn't have
• 1:02:45
  the bandwidth just wants to it to be easier and
• 1:02:49
  be consistent and so we're trying to find the
• 1:02:52
  happy medium between that we will be doing more
• 1:02:54
  from a quality perspective we will be doing more
• 1:02:57
  harvest fresh this year it's just the back -end
• 1:03:00
  logistics of like how we allocate and move product
• 1:03:02
  around and well some post -harvest selection
• 1:03:05
  yeah i mean there's a way to to have it be harvest
• 1:03:09
  fresh pellets and have the sample to have the
• 1:03:13
  sample be holy for selection that you know i
• 1:03:17
  mean that yeah just set a few bales aside yeah
• 1:03:19
  yeah you just have to build it into your process
• 1:03:21
  yeah yeah and that's what we're doing this year
• 1:03:23
  um but to your point like regardless of whether
• 1:03:26
  we're talking about harvest fresh with some back
• 1:03:29
  -end logistics or the industry standard selection
• 1:03:31
  there's a huge amount of variability you know
• 1:03:35
  and and because i mean being a farmer You know,
• 1:03:39
  that'd be my passion, Teddy. Thank you for noticing.
• 1:03:43
  I mean, you know, okay. So when we go out there
• 1:03:47
  and select for harvest, you can take a vine of
• 1:03:51
  hops and you can take a hop sample at the top
• 1:03:55
  of the vine, the middle of the vine, the bottom
• 1:03:56
  of the vine. You can take a sidearm and you can
• 1:03:59
  take a sample on the very like inside of the
• 1:04:01
  vine, very outside of the vine. Each one of those
• 1:04:03
  is going to have a unique profile. Let alone
• 1:04:06
  what part of the field. Yeah, let alone what
• 1:04:08
  part of the field. Is it the corner? Is it the
• 1:04:10
  middle? You know, I mean, I kind of scoff a little
• 1:04:14
  bit. I don't know why, because at the end of
• 1:04:17
  the day, I believe in this. But I kind of scoff
• 1:04:19
  with all the talk about terroir. Maybe it was
• 1:04:22
  how it was originally brought up. It does have
• 1:04:25
  an impact, 100%. And that terroir can be the
• 1:04:30
  difference between Oregon and Washington. It
• 1:04:32
  can be the difference between, you know. Lower
• 1:04:35
  Valley and Upper Valley, Toppenish and Moxie.
• 1:04:38
  Yeah, we've seen that in, like, not very far
• 1:04:41
  distance in one field. Yeah. And did trials,
• 1:04:45
  and there was a noticeable difference. But it
• 1:04:47
  all had to do with it was on a hill and et cetera.
• 1:04:51
  Now, being a water geek, I, well, self, maybe
• 1:04:58
  not so self. uh defined at this point because
• 1:05:01
  i'm talking about it publicly more now but yeah
• 1:05:04
  uh when i think about harvest timing and impact
• 1:05:12
  and the difference in profile aromatic profile
• 1:05:17
  i think a lot of it comes back to stress and
• 1:05:22
  that stress can come from various items in the
• 1:05:29
  farming or the production of that product or
• 1:05:33
  processing of that product. And this goes all
• 1:05:35
  the way back to our alpha days is. OK, to start
• 1:05:40
  with, I don't think that a that a hot variety
• 1:05:42
  has more than I mean, this is generally speaking,
• 1:05:46
  but maybe just say more than a seven day harvesting
• 1:05:48
  window. And so within that seven to 10 day harvesting
• 1:05:52
  window, you're going to see a noticeable fluctuation
• 1:05:55
  in that in that seven day window. And then the
• 1:05:59
  time that it takes to get there is going to be
• 1:06:01
  heavily influenced by the amount of nitrogen
• 1:06:04
  you're using, how uniform your water applications
• 1:06:07
  are, how much you're watering, all these different
• 1:06:11
  things. And water is our number one input. It's
• 1:06:16
  like by far it's our number one input. We grow
• 1:06:20
  hops in a desert. It takes probably about. let's
• 1:06:25
  say 800 ,000 gallons of water per acre, generally
• 1:06:29
  speaking to grow hops, which is, it's just to
• 1:06:35
  round up, it would be somewhere between 2 .5
• 1:06:39
  to 2 .8 acre feet, something like that. And an
• 1:06:42
  acre foot is like, you know, 12 inches of water
• 1:06:45
  over that entire acre. And I think the Yakima
• 1:06:48
  Valley gets eight inches annually. So it gets
• 1:06:53
  eight inches in the wrong time of the year, you
• 1:06:56
  know, and we use, you know, I don't know, 30
• 1:07:01
  inches, let's say. I know those numbers don't
• 1:07:03
  mathematicians out there. Don't don't put me
• 1:07:06
  on blast. It's a lot of water. It's a lot of
• 1:07:08
  water. Right. And so and if you don't like. your
• 1:07:11
  impact if you don't irrigate appropriately your
• 1:07:14
  yields are going to be substantially impact your
• 1:07:16
  quality is going to be substantially impact and
• 1:07:18
  your harvest timing is going to be substantially
• 1:07:20
  impact and so if you harvest off the calendar
• 1:07:23
  and you've basically been deficient in any of
• 1:07:26
  those variables then your harvesting window is
• 1:07:29
  going to massively shift I don't even know what
• 1:07:32
  the question was, but I saw the opportunity for
• 1:07:36
  water. You're not passionate about hot at all.
• 1:07:40
  All right, nerds. I think it started with moisture
• 1:07:46
  and bale. Yeah, it started with moisture and
• 1:07:48
  bale. And how sampling processes aren't always
• 1:07:50
  standardized. So generally speaking, just go
• 1:07:56
  around the table, what are you guys seeing? as
• 1:08:00
  kind of like that next phase with the consumer
• 1:08:04
  beer production beer industry what do you guys
• 1:08:07
  see and i mean jeremy before this started we
• 1:08:09
  were talking a little bit about um how you guys
• 1:08:12
  are leaning more into you know hospitality and
• 1:08:15
  that you've hired somebody on to focus on the
• 1:08:17
  marketing of hospitality generally speaking right
• 1:08:20
  and and uh and that's one thing that i see is
• 1:08:24
  people focusing on that more people focusing
• 1:08:27
  more on r &d which I got a question about whether
• 1:08:30
  that's to kind of feed that passion or if it's
• 1:08:35
  strategic R &D. It's probably a little bit of
• 1:08:38
  both, but I'd be curious to hear your guys' thoughts
• 1:08:41
  about kind of what you're seeing when you look
• 1:08:45
  out into the future here. Well, let me get a
• 1:08:47
  beer to answer that question. Oh, yeah. That's
• 1:08:48
  a big one. I mean, that's the magic question,
• 1:08:56
  right? What's next? On the innovation side, you're
• 1:08:59
  always thinking about that. I mean, these are
• 1:09:04
  interesting times, right? I do like that I'm
• 1:09:07
  seeing this trend on IPAs. It seems to be going
• 1:09:11
  upwards. Stone IPA, for example, is up. So to
• 1:09:15
  me, that means, okay, there's still room in that
• 1:09:19
  space for some legacy brands. You know, we've
• 1:09:24
  talked with some of our distributors, et cetera,
• 1:09:27
  especially in in socal they're they're still
• 1:09:29
  looking for ipas so that to me means okay good
• 1:09:33
  we there's still hop exploration there's still
• 1:09:37
  a market there but look at the general broad
• 1:09:40
  market you know obviously things are still down
• 1:09:43
  um so really yeah what what what's it going to
• 1:09:46
  be for the consumer um nas you know is a thing
• 1:09:50
  you know seltzer kind of crashed but There's
• 1:09:56
  still other not beer beverages out there that
• 1:10:00
  still have some legs. You know I'm not going
• 1:10:03
  to answer this directly, right? You're getting
• 1:10:08
  that hint, right? Yeah, yeah. It's a low ABV,
• 1:10:13
  a lower ABV rate. So it has a, you know, no brewer.
• 1:10:17
  But from a personal perspective, having two young
• 1:10:20
  kids, I don't want anything high ABV because
• 1:10:21
  I can't have a... IPA above 6 .5 % at 3 p .m.
• 1:10:26
  And then still make it through the rest of the
• 1:10:27
  day and rest of the day apparent. I'm exhausted
• 1:10:29
  Yeah, yeah, I think if you want to look at it
• 1:10:32
  from a demographic perspective of the first wave
• 1:10:34
  of craft drinkers They're all getting older not
• 1:10:36
  drinking as much right? So that's where a lower
• 1:10:38
  ABV or maybe a lighter style like with some of
• 1:10:41
  the dry hot pills nerves or lagers come around
• 1:10:43
  It still scratches the IPA flavor it should allows
• 1:10:46
  someone who can't have IPA ABV at that point
• 1:10:49
  in time Still get something there When we walked
• 1:10:52
  in here, Jeremy put Arrogant Bastard on the table,
• 1:10:56
  and I immediately opened up a 16 -ounce can of
• 1:10:59
  that and drank it while everyone else was like,
• 1:11:02
  yeah, maybe I'll do that Session IPA, which I
• 1:11:04
  quickly transitioned to. But the Arrogant Bastard
• 1:11:08
  was great, but it's a big beer. Yeah, you know,
• 1:11:12
  it's funny. We get mixed signals on the ABV.
• 1:11:14
  Like, I don't know if you feel this way too,
• 1:11:16
  Teddy. It's like, yeah, we want Session beers,
• 1:11:17
  and they don't sell. Really? This? Like, Irving,
• 1:11:22
  something like this? I'm drinking the Society,
• 1:11:25
  the Coachman. It does well, but we put the same
• 1:11:27
  amount of hops in as we do our 7 .5 % IPA. There's
• 1:11:29
  that, too. We have to sell it at that. That's
• 1:11:31
  what I love is the hops. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:34
  It's like two pounds of beer, nothing crazy.
• 1:11:35
  How does it do compared to your pupil? It doesn't
• 1:11:38
  do as the pupil way outshines it, which is that
• 1:11:41
  7 .5%. That's what I mean about the mixing. That's
• 1:11:44
  a distribution factor. I don't know if I answered
• 1:11:46
  that question at all. Well, I mean, yes and no.
• 1:11:51
  You didn't answer it directly, which is perfectly
• 1:11:54
  fine. Yeah. I mean, what I heard you say was
• 1:11:58
  it's complicated, and the consumer is giving
• 1:12:02
  mixed signals. Even though you're seeing growth
• 1:12:05
  in Stone IPA, you're seeing, I would say, interest,
• 1:12:10
  at least in feedback, on lighter, low ABV beers.
• 1:12:15
  But it sounds like it's still kind of sorting
• 1:12:17
  itself out. Teddy said something earlier about
• 1:12:20
  staying in your lane, and I think it's, yeah,
• 1:12:24
  we have some beers that we do really well, and
• 1:12:29
  we want to continue to do those beers really
• 1:12:31
  well, but we can't let that stop us from doing
• 1:12:34
  other things. We've got to keep an open mind.
• 1:12:38
  and be able to be flexible but yeah our core
• 1:12:41
  business hopefully can continue what we think
• 1:12:44
  we're good at realizing that you know there's
• 1:12:47
  a there's other stuff out there and the consumer
• 1:12:49
  base is evolving hopefully some of that consumer
• 1:12:52
  base will evolve to some of these beers that
• 1:12:55
  we think are really good and that we do well
• 1:12:58
  um so yeah again not a straight answer but i
• 1:13:02
  think we just have to be open -minded while staying
• 1:13:04
  true to our roots well to that point We kind
• 1:13:08
  of, Mike, even teed it up a little bit, your
• 1:13:11
  investment in hospitality and the event that
• 1:13:13
  we're doing tonight, even though it's a little
• 1:13:14
  more industry -leaning. But come back to my point
• 1:13:18
  of, you know, drink craft beer because I like
• 1:13:21
  it, but also the community and the experience.
• 1:13:24
  And so that hospitality point maybe gives us
• 1:13:28
  kind of what the focus is with that investment.
• 1:13:33
  that's that's been one of our core values for
• 1:13:35
  a long time is amazing experiences like you know
• 1:13:38
  you just don't come here to have a beer it's
• 1:13:40
  the whole experience and we have a nice garden
• 1:13:43
  and hopefully you're hanging out with friends
• 1:13:45
  and family it's one of the first things that
• 1:13:47
  joe said when we drove up he goes whoa what is
• 1:13:49
  that i was like oh that's their it's their garden
• 1:13:51
  that was a set for jumanji Jovan and I were giggling
• 1:13:57
  like, this is just like walking into society.
• 1:14:01
  Hey, we were there yesterday. It was a great
• 1:14:04
  experience. It was awesome. And I love going
• 1:14:06
  to society. I always have a great experience.
• 1:14:09
  And it took a long time to get here, you know.
• 1:14:12
  But yeah, it was about offering like a full immersive
• 1:14:15
  experience. You know, that's why the food's important,
• 1:14:19
  the service, the gift shop, all that stuff, you
• 1:14:23
  know, is all. to make you stay a long time, buy,
• 1:14:28
  of course, purchase stuff, but just have a great
• 1:14:31
  experience and come back and tell your friends,
• 1:14:34
  et cetera. And we have, you know, like we were
• 1:14:36
  talking about earlier, we've seen a rise in our
• 1:14:38
  hospitality business. You know, some of that
• 1:14:40
  is people are going back out. There's more. I
• 1:14:43
  think people are finally willing to go out again
• 1:14:46
  and spend some money, even though the state of
• 1:14:49
  the world is whatever. Maybe that's why they're
• 1:14:50
  doing it. Yeah, it's something that's been really
• 1:14:56
  positive in our business, and we're positioned
• 1:14:59
  to really keep evolving on that because of where
• 1:15:02
  we're at currently with the way our restaurants
• 1:15:05
  are and our tap rooms. Do you think that, too,
• 1:15:07
  that, I mean, as a society, I can get pretty
• 1:15:11
  deep, but... I don't believe it. I know, right?
• 1:15:15
  Well, as a society, we're kind of maybe figuring
• 1:15:19
  out what is important and community and... experiences
• 1:15:25
  with community are more of a priority than maybe
• 1:15:30
  we thought. And I'm saying we is like broad -based
• 1:15:34
  we. Because for a while there, I've always thought
• 1:15:37
  that beer is community. Coming together is a
• 1:15:43
  core human need. And I think we're figuring that
• 1:15:46
  out. Well, COVID jacked that up, right? COVID
• 1:15:49
  totally jacked that up. So that's not helping
• 1:15:53
  anything. But so hopefully we're returning from
• 1:15:55
  that finally. Yeah. And my question was, are
• 1:15:58
  we returning from that with more awareness or
• 1:16:01
  are we just returning from that? And there's
• 1:16:04
  kind of like a rebound effect. I mean, we're
• 1:16:07
  not seeing massive growth, but I don't know.
• 1:16:09
  I mean, for myself personally, I need it. Right.
• 1:16:12
  And during covid, I would, you know. a good friend
• 1:16:17
  that works here at Gordon, we would have our
• 1:16:20
  shifters on Fridays. We'd just be way apart.
• 1:16:22
  I'd just stop by on my way home. We'd be out
• 1:16:24
  on the lawn. He'd be way apart, and it felt good.
• 1:16:28
  It's like, okay, the world's screwed up, but
• 1:16:30
  we can still do this, and it's really important.
• 1:16:33
  And then the Zoom thing came in, and we started
• 1:16:35
  doing that with other people and Zooming and
• 1:16:38
  all that, but it doesn't replace being in the
• 1:16:42
  same place. and having that shared experience
• 1:16:45
  in one spot. Well, to keep it moving on, Teddy,
• 1:16:48
  you got some stuff to do, but what do you guys
• 1:16:51
  see, JT, Teddy? I mean, I echo a lot of what
• 1:16:55
  Jeremy said, but I think something I learned
• 1:16:58
  at a prior company that sticks with me is if
• 1:17:02
  you focus on the Pareto principle, right, where
• 1:17:05
  80 % of your value comes from 20 % of your work.
• 1:17:08
  you're probably going to do well and work on
• 1:17:10
  the right things. So you need to sometimes let
• 1:17:16
  that 20 % of your value, which is 80 % of the
• 1:17:19
  work, stop distracting you so you can almost
• 1:17:23
  kind of get out of your own way. But the challenge
• 1:17:26
  of doing that is you have to have everyone that
• 1:17:29
  you interact with, internally, externally, wherever,
• 1:17:31
  kind of buy in and agree with that because then
• 1:17:34
  it can lead to some challenges. But if you can...
• 1:17:37
  generally know that we've got 80 % of the information,
• 1:17:40
  we're working on something 80 % of the way, all
• 1:17:42
  right, we're probably gonna do it well, and we
• 1:17:44
  just have to adapt to the rest later. There's
• 1:17:46
  another decision -making principle that's similar
• 1:17:49
  to that, which is, do we have 80 % of the information
• 1:17:51
  right now? Great, then let's go do it instead
• 1:17:53
  of letting analysis paralysis slow us down. Calculated
• 1:17:57
  risks. Exactly. I love that. That's basically
• 1:18:01
  what I was gonna say. The pupil is our core beer,
• 1:18:04
  and that's our focus. Protect the core and then
• 1:18:08
  stimulate process of progress in other ways.
• 1:18:10
  Well, we'll try to shoot bullets We'll do you
• 1:18:12
  know minimal investment things to see is this
• 1:18:15
  gonna like we did a seltzer in the tasting room.
• 1:18:17
  We'll see how that goes Much to the brewer's
• 1:18:20
  grudges. But, you know, we had to try that to
• 1:18:24
  see, try something a little bit different. But
• 1:18:26
  still our entire, our laser focus is on our core
• 1:18:29
  beer. And then we can be a better partner to
• 1:18:31
  hop suppliers because we know what, you know,
• 1:18:33
  we're pretty confident in what we're going to
• 1:18:35
  use in that. So you can hit things year over
• 1:18:37
  year and you can develop a longer term relationship
• 1:18:39
  there. And you can be smarter and you can get
• 1:18:41
  better pricing. You can get better options. You
• 1:18:44
  can get better quality. And it just drives you
• 1:18:47
  forward to be able to. But that's our main focus
• 1:18:50
  is that core. The pupil is what pulls us forward.
• 1:18:54
  We don't want to just be a pupil brewery because
• 1:18:56
  that leaves us out. I mean, honestly, if we were
• 1:18:58
  just a pupil brewery, it would make things a
• 1:19:00
  lot simpler in a lot of ways. We would be a lot
• 1:19:02
  more streamlined and probably a lot more efficient.
• 1:19:04
  But we like to say creativity through the process.
• 1:19:07
  For a period of time, but then you may find yourself
• 1:19:10
  demotivated. Yep. potentially or falling behind
• 1:19:14
  over the long term. Yeah, no, I agree. But again,
• 1:19:18
  right now, where craft's at right now, we're
• 1:19:20
  super thankful that we've got a core beer that
• 1:19:21
  people are gravitating towards and we can consistently
• 1:19:24
  see that growth. And then we can, you know, if
• 1:19:27
  we make a small adjustment in a negotiation on
• 1:19:30
  a single hop with pupil, it has vastly larger
• 1:19:34
  implications than a minor adjustment on a hop
• 1:19:38
  that we're using, you know, like a little small
• 1:19:39
  experimental piece that we're... playing around
• 1:19:42
  with it so we can see there's much bigger levers
• 1:19:45
  that we can pull when we focus that way. And
• 1:19:46
  that's, we, we grew through COVID and we kind
• 1:19:49
  of had to learn that the hard way a little bit.
• 1:19:50
  It was sort of coming into a place where we were
• 1:19:53
  super thankful that the core is holding on and
• 1:19:55
  people are gravitating towards it. So keep, keep
• 1:19:58
  rolling and leading with that. And it allows
• 1:19:59
  us to be smarter across the board. Love it. Okay.
• 1:20:03
  I know you got to go here soon, Teddy, but I'd
• 1:20:05
  want to, and you can bow whenever you need to,
• 1:20:08
  but word association. We're going to say a hop
• 1:20:11
  name and you're going to say what band it is.
• 1:20:15
  Oh, I like this. Wow. Oh man. This is like, this
• 1:20:19
  is Jeremy's. I feel like I should just go. No,
• 1:20:27
  no, no, no. This is Jeremy's. No, no, dude. I,
• 1:20:31
  this might be hard. Yeah. We trialed it on the
• 1:20:35
  ride over. So Joe's already been one round through
• 1:20:37
  this. He did a couple, but one that was hard
• 1:20:42
  for me at first, but I think I nailed it, and
• 1:20:43
  it is Citra. And I said, well, it's got to be
• 1:20:47
  something like kind of pop culture -y, like it's
• 1:20:50
  kind of a little bit for everybody. And I said,
• 1:20:52
  the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And hear me out. I
• 1:20:56
  said, a lot of people love the Red Hot Chili
• 1:20:59
  Peppers, and they make great music, and I really
• 1:21:05
  enjoy their music. Do I currently enjoy their
• 1:21:08
  music? Probably no. I think it's boring radio
• 1:21:11
  stuff. But I really loved the late 80s and early
• 1:21:16
  90s George Clinton produced Red Hot Chili Peppers.
• 1:21:19
  So, hell yeah, I like Citra. We're going to need
• 1:21:22
  another hour, I think. I know. Four more layers
• 1:21:26
  than I was anticipating. Really? Red Hot Chili
• 1:21:31
  Peppers? Oh, man. what would mosaic be well okay
• 1:21:50
  you just teed it up then let's start with mosaic
• 1:21:53
  no i'm like thinking out loud but to me mosaic
• 1:21:57
  is this hop that it just that's That's a guy
• 1:22:01
  that can jam with anybody. I was going to say,
• 1:22:03
  the collaboration part of it is difficult to...
• 1:22:05
  So I guess if we want to be timely, we could
• 1:22:07
  say that's Bobby Weir, who played with everybody.
• 1:22:10
  Yeah. I had to get a Bobby Weir thing. Yeah,
• 1:22:12
  I was going to say that. We knew it was coming.
• 1:22:14
  I like you just jumping in there. But is there
• 1:22:17
  a band that encapsulates that? The band? Yeah,
• 1:22:21
  the band's pretty good. But I feel like there's...
• 1:22:23
  Yeah. The new age level of it. Yeah, what's the
• 1:22:26
  new age level? Because we're, yeah. You're sort
• 1:22:28
  of old, I am old. The band is probably more of
• 1:22:31
  like a public variety in your level of nuance.
• 1:22:34
  That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:22:35
  Like Mosaic has got to be like something that's
• 1:22:38
  a little more. Music for Big Pink is not, that's
• 1:22:41
  not Mosaic. Yeah. Wouldn't Mosaic be more of
• 1:22:43
  like a producer that's produced multiple times?
• 1:22:45
  Like a Don Was or something like that maybe?
• 1:22:48
  Yeah, that could be. That could be. Yeah. I like
• 1:22:52
  the producer aspect, but I just thought of Dave
• 1:22:55
  Grohl. On Mosaic? Dave Grohl's played with everybody.
• 1:22:59
  The collaboration aspect is important there.
• 1:23:03
  All right, I'm keeping going. Simcoe. You teed
• 1:23:08
  that one up because we already ran through that
• 1:23:10
  one. We did that one. We did that one. I was
• 1:23:11
  going to say, you've got an answer here. You're
• 1:23:13
  like, you go. All right, Simcoe for me is, to
• 1:23:17
  quote Wayne's World, Led Zeppelin didn't write
• 1:23:22
  tunes that everybody liked. They left that to
• 1:23:23
  the Bee Gees. I think Simcoe is Led Zeppelin
• 1:23:26
  because it's one of my favorite bands and hops
• 1:23:28
  of all time, but it might not be exactly for
• 1:23:31
  everyone. A little bit polarizing. I like the
• 1:23:33
  Led Zeppelin analogy there. Yeah, I think that
• 1:23:36
  works. But I mean, wait, what about like if you
• 1:23:38
  go back to the Beatles or something, you know,
• 1:23:40
  the foundation of rock, you know, I mean, there's
• 1:23:44
  so much. Sure, sure. How long has Simcoe been
• 1:23:47
  grown and so high up on the... Yeah, timing may...
• 1:23:53
  Over 20 years. I mean, Led Zeppelin isn't as
• 1:23:55
  prolific as... Well, honestly... No, no, no.
• 1:24:01
  Remember when you said you didn't want to do
• 1:24:03
  this? Teddy, by the way, you're not going anywhere.
• 1:24:07
  I knew that from the beginning. So, honestly,
• 1:24:12
  I almost said for Citra is the Beatles. Yeah,
• 1:24:16
  you could go that way too. Because it's long
• 1:24:19
  run. it has a little something for everybody
• 1:24:21
  but simcoe that's why again i think it's zeppelin
• 1:24:25
  because it's like also i mean i haven't even
• 1:24:29
  said my favorite band which is well grateful
• 1:24:31
  dead or rolling stones but uh i don't know where
• 1:24:33
  the stones are yet the stones could fit in one
• 1:24:36
  of those two i feel like maybe yeah because it's
• 1:24:38
  kind of plays for everybody yeah hi uh centennial
• 1:24:44
  Centennial, The Police. Oh! Let's go! Let's go!
• 1:24:50
  Rad band. Fell apart immediately. Sort of came
• 1:24:57
  back and was rad, but... That's perfect, Jeremy.
• 1:25:01
  That's... Yeah. Oh, I love it. That one came
• 1:25:04
  immediately, actually. We just thought this would
• 1:25:09
  be fun. No, I like it. We could probably do this
• 1:25:11
  for... Is there more? We could keep going, but
• 1:25:14
  yeah. East Kent Goldings. I don't know. Dubliners.
• 1:25:22
  Dubliners? That makes sense. Cascade, you got
• 1:25:25
  it. Cascade. All right, Cascade. That could be
• 1:25:28
  the Stones. That's like the Stones. That could
• 1:25:31
  be the Beatles in one way, too. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:25:34
  Chinook. Hmm, Chinook. This is another one that
• 1:25:38
  I did. To me, I was going to say the Ramones,
• 1:25:41
  actually. Because it's an older band, but still
• 1:25:46
  relevant. I went a different route on Chinook.
• 1:25:50
  I went Grateful Dead. Because it's my favorite
• 1:25:53
  hop. One of my favorite pants. You're not going
• 1:25:57
  to get in an argument. No pushback. I know. This
• 1:26:00
  is on purpose. But I'm like, it plays with everybody.
• 1:26:08
  And no one really dislikes the Grateful Dead.
• 1:26:10
  The people that like the Grateful Dead, we really
• 1:26:13
  like the Grateful Dead. Yeah. So it's like, people
• 1:26:16
  that like Chinook really like Chinook. Or they
• 1:26:19
  just don't get it. Or they don't get it. And
• 1:26:21
  it jams and kind of like, you know, it's got
• 1:26:25
  a groove to it, you know? What about CTZ and
• 1:26:28
  Metallica? I like that. So I got to put my Hop
• 1:26:36
  Quality Group hat on. What would Thora be? I
• 1:26:39
  don't have an immediate answer. The Traveling
• 1:26:41
  Wilburys. The Traveling Wilburys? No. No? Why
• 1:26:47
  traveling will be? It's like the super group
• 1:26:49
  that came together. Oh, I see your angle. There's
• 1:26:53
  so many different angles on this. Sure, for sure.
• 1:26:55
  Answering. It is a little older, obviously, so
• 1:26:57
  it needs to be a newer. Yeah. Well, just because
• 1:27:00
  I really like them, I was thinking goose. Somebody
• 1:27:03
  newer that is probably going to do a lot in the
• 1:27:07
  next five to ten years. Yeah, it was like Billy
• 1:27:10
  Strings and Strata. Oh, Billy Strings. I would
• 1:27:13
  take Billy Strings for Thor. I like the Strata
• 1:27:17
  call out. That's interesting. Because he plays
• 1:27:19
  with everybody. He does play with everybody.
• 1:27:22
  And it's really good. The one that I have been
• 1:27:29
  thinking about since we talked about this at
• 1:27:31
  10 this morning is Ween, which is another one
• 1:27:34
  of my favorite bands. And I have no clue. I have
• 1:27:36
  no clue. Putting this to you guys. That's right.
• 1:27:42
  Ween is anchovy. You just go, what is going on?
• 1:27:55
  Ah, summit tower of power, tower of power, sex
• 1:28:00
  pistols. Okay, Summit. Summit is relevant to
• 1:28:06
  the Hop experience, what we're going to do here
• 1:28:08
  in a little bit. So let's think about this band.
• 1:28:10
  Okay, Summit was one of the early ADHA. It was.
• 1:28:16
  So it spawned a bunch of things. So maybe it's
• 1:28:21
  like Yardbirds or something like that. But it's
• 1:28:25
  also got to be something, because Summit was
• 1:28:27
  bred, selected, and originally grown for Alpha.
• 1:28:31
  Period. And then it got identified. So I do see
• 1:28:35
  some punk rock in that thing, but then there's
• 1:28:37
  also kind of this dual personality, kind of misunderstood
• 1:28:40
  type thing. Summit's cream. Ooh, yeah. What's
• 1:28:47
  the singer -songwriter hop? Ooh. Dulcita sounds
• 1:28:52
  like a singer -songwriter. It does, it does.
• 1:28:55
  I think singer -songwriter has got to be folky.
• 1:28:58
  That could be the Cascade. Or like a comet. Yeah,
• 1:29:01
  something public. Something public that's been
• 1:29:05
  around. Like Vista? Yep, yep. Mike got it. Mike
• 1:29:12
  got it. Vista. Greatest day of my life. Yeah,
• 1:29:16
  this is basically the... You know what I also
• 1:29:20
  suggested, JT, is Hobbs' English Premier League
• 1:29:23
  teams. Oh, God. I would say Cascade is Newcastle
• 1:29:33
  because they used to be good way back when. They
• 1:29:37
  kind of struggled around for a little bit, and
• 1:29:40
  now that they have all this Saudi Arabia money,
• 1:29:42
  they're really getting a lot of interest. Now
• 1:29:45
  we're getting political. All right. I like it.
• 1:29:51
  Acreage is growing. Yeah. Or like Simcoe could
• 1:29:55
  be Manchester United. It was in the 90s, the
• 1:29:59
  big team, and now it's not as big, but always
• 1:30:02
  still talked about as a big team, even though
• 1:30:04
  they haven't won major trophies in a long time.
• 1:30:08
  Sure, they won a Europa Conference League, but
• 1:30:10
  come on. I knew he would nail this. There's going
• 1:30:13
  to be a lot of editing on this. Sorry, Andy.
• 1:30:18
  I appreciate it. This was fun, and you guys are
• 1:30:22
  all part of the inaugural on -the -road road
• 1:30:26
  show for No Dirt, No Flowers. So thank you very
• 1:30:29
  much, and we'll see you guys in a couple hours.
• 1:30:31
  Yeah. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks. Bye.