Latest / Marci talks money (and life) / From Job Loss to Financial Freedom: A Conversation with Rahul Kumar
Transcript
- Marci Grossman (00:05) Hello and welcome to Marci Talks Money and Life. I'm Money Marci and I love the opportunity to talk to so many people around the world about their thoughts on money and lessons they've learned or want to learn. So thank you for stopping by. My guest today is Rahul Kumar. He came to Canada from India in 2015 for a higher education opportunity, earning his MBA and working in sales. He stumbled upon the book Richest Men in Babylon by George Classen, which taught him the fundamentals around personal finance. And then he kept on reading various books about money and psychology. And these books started him on a journey of money management and personal finance. When COVID hit, he was fired from his job with two hours notice, which was the trigger for him to move toward financial freedom. So welcome Rahul Rahul (00:56) your introduction is appropriate because the trigger was COVID. I was a company in which I was working. was, they were very happy with me, but suddenly like in two hours, they actually said, hey, you know what, we have to let you go without like much notice. So that's when I thought, you know, they're looking in my control here. They are controlling. everything like you know what I need to do how much things I have to bring how much salary they will give me. Each and everything is controlled by this company and that was one of the incidents there were more incidents in the past where I was working with a boss was not so kind I'll say a little bit like you know very controlling So there are few trigger points which really pushed me to a level that, hey you know what, let's take it very seriously. This is not, you know, I cannot live like this, being controlled and being, you know, constantly monitored by someone else and they deciding what will I earn, how much will I earn, how will I spend my days, how will I spend my, you know, years. So the only way out is that, hey you know what, become financially independent and And then I was reading Rich Dad Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki and he talks about asset a lot. Asset and how liabilities and when I started reading those books, I clearly started understanding that what needs to be bought and what needs to be left. So I become very focused on buying as much asset as I can. And that's what is helping me. I'm mostly invested in covered call ETFs. I'm not sure a of people know about that or not, but it's like an instrument which helps you to generate passive income every month. So that's what the asset class I'm following and that's what is generating me passive income. And that's how I'm moving towards my financial freedom goal. Marci Grossman (02:46) So right now you are still working and you're working at building your, holdings so that you can keep creating larger and larger streams of passive income. Rahul (02:57) That's 100% true. yeah, as in, you know, My whole agenda is that the income or the passive income which the ETF is generating is reinvested back into the portfolio so that it generates even more income and if needed, I use it for my expenses but if not, then I reinvest it. So yeah, that is what the idea is. Marci Grossman (03:16) Okay, so at this point in time, you're not necessarily benefiting from that passive income you're creating. You're creating that wealth for the future so that in the future you'll be able to move to that financial freedom. Rahul (03:28) Well, that's a very good question. I am right now building my own company, which is around telecommunication sales. Because I've been in telecommunication industry for very long. before that, I had my own company on recruitment side. We used to do recruitment for other companies, especially for the sales role, because that's what my background is. But now I have focused into building a company for sales in the telecommunication sector. So now in that situation, I am thinking to use some of the passive income for my ongoing expenses so that I can focus my energy and time on building the sales company because business has potential to generate way more wealth than the passive income which the ETF can generate. So right now I will be using, I was not using it so far, but right now I'm thinking to use it for my day to day expenses. And let's say I put X amount of dollars, I know that if I work on the business, generate even more wealth, that can be reinvested in buying those ETFs. Marci Grossman (04:30) you have an MBA, what did you study for that MBA? Rahul (04:29) Yeah. I did my MBA in marketing and entrepreneurship actually. yeah, I did from UM, University of Manitoba at the School of Business. So I my MBA there and then I moved to Calgary Marci Grossman (04:38) Okay. Okay. And When you moved from India, you came here for your master's degree or you came here and then you ended up going to the master's program? Rahul (04:55) Well, I came here for the master's program in 2015. It was a two year course. And, you know, while doing masters, because I've always been an entrepreneurial kind of person trying to do something, you know, it doesn't matter work out doesn't work out, but it's natural to me. I always trying to do something of my own, you know. It's just a lifestyle thing for me. It's less about money, more about the way I live. That's where the financial freedom comes in, right? Because I don't want to be restricted by anyone in any way. So even building a business is a deep reflection of who I am as a person, where I don't want to be controlled. I want to take care of or take charge of my own life. Sometimes even I feel that I could have made a little bit more money while working for a company but in long run I can make much so much more while working for building a company and for that to happen because I come from a background where I'm in Canada right now. There's no financial backing for me. So all the backing is created by me for myself and for my family. So that is why I am so much into passive income because I know if I were to build a company, I need to have those things in the back to support me. Like those ETFs, those passive incomes coming to me because even building a company needs time, needs effort and the expenses won't stop for you. The expenses will keep on happening. your car, your car insurance, your house rent, your food, xyz, there a lot of things going on. So that need to be covered. So we're smartly managing it while I'm building a company. The whole idea is use this money to build something much bigger in form of a company. Marci Grossman (06:33) You're talking about doing it for yourself. Have you built a community? Are you networking? What are you doing to broaden your support to build this wealth? Rahul (06:42) Yeah, so... Absolutely like in terms of support right like I have me because it's the second company I'm trying to build like and my wife supports me but more than that you know it's I'm connecting with a lot of companies in telecommunication and in payment system sector and then I go out I meet people in around Calgary. I will be doing a lot of recruitment now, at least few, so that they can work together, train them, groom them, that they can actually help me to build this company while I'm helping them with their income. And then we also thought about, hey, if we can include financial literacy education for all those people whom we will be including in the company. So basically, we're about hiring young talents, like fresh out of college, those who want to learn sales, who want to learn marketing, negotiation. So we'll train them on these things. Plus we also train them on financial literacy. Financial literacy is actually very critical, which we try to include in every aspect of our work actually. Marci Grossman (07:51) That sounds fascinating. You have also created on Instagram, I've seen, where you are trying to encourage other people on their financial literacy, on their building wealth and working toward this financial freedom. Are you continuing to, I assume, read more books and keep learning and keep reaching out? Do you have financial professionals that you deal with or do you mostly try and manage that aspect yourself? Rahul (08:17) So right now, know, there's no professional who is working with me to managing anything because considering the portfolio size is not that big. It's getting restarted. As in I've got the fundamentals in my head now, what needs to be done. It's mostly about buying assets, that's where the focus should be. And the more assets I buy, the freer I'll get. But it's mostly self-learned. There's no one like coaching me or training me on a day to day basis or on a regular basis I mostly have tons of books which I read I always keep on reading. There's one book which I have spoken about like this one It's always lying in my desk I always keep on reading. So I mostly surround myself with a lot of books I listen to some podcasts or some YouTube videos And that's how my education is going Because I think reading books is is the best thing I feel when it comes to financial literacy because A, it shows that I am self-willing to learn and educate myself so that I can keep on improving. Marci Grossman (09:17) Different people do these different ways. Are you continuing to take classes Rahul (09:21) Classes, you mean to say classes for financial freedom, financial literacy. Marci Grossman (09:25) You have a master's degree, you said, in sales and entrepreneurship, but I imagine that there are more things to learn, and especially if you're not, you said your portfolio is smaller to go to a financial professional to manage it or anything, but There's no end to learning. Rahul (09:29) Mm-hmm. Thank That's a very good question. It's always good to have someone by my side. Right now I don't have any. I'm always open. Who can guide me better because even the covered call ETF thing I learned it from YouTube and then I start implementing it. I start learning what is covered call. How is it done? What is the you know? How does it really operate because even though there are companies who actually you know does this covered call ETF thing and they pay me a premium but It's always good to learn more and I'm always looking for is there a better way to you know, to invest, is there a better way to grow this passive income? Is there a better way to, you know, put the money in an asset class which can even generate more wealth? I'm always open for learning and I'm always looking for people who can actually, you have a discussion with me. Like I thought of have a conversation with you because it's always good to have a conversation with like-minded people because we all are thinking in similar directions. So yeah, absolutely. I'm always looking for someone who can have a conversation, who can coach me, who can teach me but so far I don't have anyone. Marci Grossman (10:50) You know, I was just talking to someone the other day about YouTube University and how much is available out there to learn. And then there are places, I believe MIT is one of the first ones to come to mind that they allow you to attend classes and learn more for free, obviously not degree, not credit, not anything like that, where you can continue to learn. And my concern that I addressed with my friend was, when you go to YouTube University, you're not always sure of who it is you are learning from, the quality of their information, I've read or at least tried to read many, many books about financial literacy, and the reason I wrote my own is I found so many of them just didn't appeal to me. whether they weren't user friendly or they didn't reach the audience that I thought it was more important to reach. Or I started reading one and I'm a CPA with a lot of years of experience and I couldn't even understand what they were saying. They were trying, I think they were trying to tell everyone else how smart they were rather than trying to bring people up and educate them. So every book talks to someone differently. So you found your book and I think you basically, Richest Man in Babylon is, think, That's your touchstone. That is your starting point, your entry point and everything. And someone else might pick it up and say, wow, if this is supposed to be the starting point, I guess I can't even go there. And it's important for people to understand we all learn differently. We all teach differently. And if this book doesn't speak to you, pick up another book, talk to a different friend. You can meet a financial professional. Rahul (12:11) Yes. Marci Grossman (12:19) and say, wow, this person just didn't click, whether it's the way they talk or the way they listen or their priorities and things, whatever it is doesn't fit for me, then it means you need to go out and meet more people and find that person that clicks for you that you can have these conversations and keep moving forward. I love that you're already willing to share. I think at an earlier part in your overall Rahul (12:38) Yeah. Marci Grossman (12:45) journey to the financial freedom, but you've got a plan, you've got goals, you're kind of evaluating where you're going, you're talking to your spouse, and you're working together on these goals for the greater good, and that's huge. Rahul (13:00) in when you are in a country where you are by yourself, you, I think that is like a normal reflex I feel sometimes that, you know, because I'm in Canada, I'm just by myself. So no one is going to save me and that's... how I've been for last 10 years. So I've built this kind of mindset that, okay, I have to be like really focused to make sure that I'm doing well because in India, I have a big family. A lot of things are taken care of, but not here. So we have to be like very, you become more aware. you become more focused, become more creative, resourceful and you start doing all those things which need to be done to get to a place where you need to be. I think, you know, and There is an interesting story I'll tell you about this book. Why this is like one of my all time favorite I read it because I was listening to a podcast or a video of Jim Brown, the motivational speaker, and he told that, hey, you know what, in my every seminar I tell people to read this book Richest Man in Babylon but no one but out of hundred only ten will read it no matter what out of hundred only ten will read it no matter how many times I tell and people will come they'll listen to me speak listen to me speak and then they'll leave so and out of that ten people only one will actually implement it so I So that's how, you know what? And if that wasn't implemented, he would be financially sound. So I thought if that, if it was that simple, why don't I just read it and implement it? So that's how I got into it. And I think it has helped me a lot. Marci Grossman (14:43) Right, but as I said, other people of those 10 people, you know, that start reading it, how many of them reach the end? Because it just isn't the right book for them. Rahul (14:53) Yeah, that's correct. It's not the right book. Yeah, there are other books also. 100%. Someone might connect with you. 100%. Marci Grossman (14:57) There are thousands of books out there on financial literacy. So if you're interested in pursuing financial literacy, go to your library. In fact, you don't even have to go to your library as long as you have a library card. You go on Hoopla and there's even more because now we're talking about access throughout the library systems, the digital books there, and find that book, that mentor, that whatever you're looking for. Will speak to you now you keep talking about being here alone, but you left a big family when you came here for school Did you intend on staying in Canada? Rahul (15:22) Good. Honestly, that's a good question. I have tried going back twice so far. Back to India, because I intended to come study and then go back. I have a big family in India. But the work... you know, sometimes you are destined for a certain place, I feel that, you know, no matter how hard you try to go back, you are always brought in for some other reason. So I try to go back twice, but I've always came back for work. So I never intended to, honestly, to live that this long, but here I am, I'm still here, 10 years. Marci Grossman (15:58) I have no idea what Calgary is like, but Canada is a big country. So I imagine there's, there's, larger and smaller pockets of Indian culture, Indian food, Indian whatever. If there's not a lot in Calgary, you could certainly move to a place where you found more home and connectiveness. Rahul (16:09) population Yeah, mean, Calgary is actually one of the big cities in Canada. We have more than 1.2 million people, so pretty decent in terms of size. And yes there's a vibrant Indian culture, Indian community right here. We have all the restaurants and everything is here. The thing is that like this longing never goes away. It's like your roots, right? It keeps on calling you. And no matter how much, how much ever you, you are around with people from same country, but even from same country, I come from a place which is small town, which is not so small, but it's like small city kind of thing, right? So, and we have a family of more than a hundred people. So in India, so in Jamshedpur where I'm from. So yes, I meet with lot of Indians from my country because I am in the field. I'm working in sales. So I'm meeting a lot of lot of people from my country. But this longing never goes away. I think this will never go away. I feel that way. Marci Grossman (17:12) Okay, none of your family has moved out here or your friends from back home. Rahul (17:17) No, no, my brother is in Ontario. He's studying too. Yeah, he's studying too. Maybe if he get together, then things might change, but you know, let's see. Marci Grossman (17:20) okay. can imagine that that's difficult. I have a friend who she and her husband moved here almost 30 years ago from England. And they find that a lot of their vacations are going back to England to see the rest of their family. When they came here, it was for a couple of years to work at a car company and they ended up staying. And so I understand about... Rahul (17:36) Go out. Marci Grossman (17:50) You find this home, but you also have that home there and the opportunities, the connections, the networking, the everything you've built here is hard to leave behind to go back. ⁓ Even though you're going back, you'd be starting from scratch in some ways. So yeah. Rahul (18:00) Yeah. I understand, you no one is there to like, go and build it again. That's how it is. So that's why we have invested so much time here and we have networks, we have work, we know what to do here, how to, you know, run a business, create a business in this particular environment where I am. So, because every environment is different and sometimes you get into the environment, right? Okay, this is a place where business actually operates this way. This is how you talk. Marci Grossman (18:22) Right. Rahul (18:28) This is how you reach out. And even though I'm from India, I've always worked in this country. I never actually worked in India. And then I've worked for two years in a software company, know, business business, like customer interaction, people interaction, networking, all those things happened here. So yeah, so it will be starting from scratch from India. And if I go back to India, yeah. Marci Grossman (18:51) I can understand that. So you're going to work on building your community here and networking and building the wealth and teaching others how to do the same. I mean, I think that's fabulous. Rahul (18:57) Yes. Yeah, I think, you know, a few things like the reason I got really serious about financial freedom is that I feel money is like, you know, energy. Money is Just like water is energy, money is also energy. Same water which can be helping you to nourish your body can also kill you if you're not handling it properly, you go inside the water, right? Similarly, with money, if it's properly handled, Very nourishing, very nice, good for the person or good for the community. But if it's not handled properly, same money can create disaster. So that's why I got so much deep into financial management and cash flow management. How do I manage this cash flow that it creates more happiness and prosperity instead of creating more havoc? Upon deep reflection I feel that financial freedom and great cash flow management anyone can do it. A person who is earning average salary or average income can be absolutely happy if he is very good at managing his money and understanding how money works, then if someone who has lot of money but he doesn't know how to manage it. because at the of the day, he will just use that money to dig a hole for himself and create more debt, create more stress, create more anxiety. Whereas a person who actually understands how it works, because there are some laws and fundamentals around if that is followed, it actually creates more happiness. So this is what I say, you can be absolutely happy with $4000 per month. of income and you can be absolutely miserable with $40,000 per month income. It depends on how you actually use the money. It doesn't matter. Let's say you have $40,000 income, but you take so much debt that you have to pay $50,000 per bank, then you are a mess every single month. But if you have $4,000, but you manage it so nicely that it takes your life smoothly, then you are a more, you're living actually a more prosperous and happy life. So that's what I start understanding that. You know what? It is about how much money you have. It's absolutely important. But more important is how you actually manage it, how you actually deploy it, and how you actually use it to generate income and also live a happy life. So this whole idea of more, more, more, more, more sometimes actually backfires in my understanding. Marci Grossman (21:21) Absolutely. You have to live within your means and really below your means if you want to be building that greater wealth for the long term. Rahul (21:27) Yeah, 100 % and the idea is not to like, know, be as if you're us, you know what, I have to live in this limit only all the time. No, let's keep on improving. Let's keep on improving the earning capacity capabilities. But let's say whatever you earn, you stay within that. You know, that's how I think, you know, if I'm earning $4,000 per month and I'm spending $3,000. So let's say I want to improve to like $10,000 a month and then I can spend $6,000. But I will be always keeping it like that because I don't know who I'll spend or... But at same time, I want to make sure that I have a comfortable life. And this is I say to everyone, like who ever wants to speak with my brother speaks with me, there other people who speak with me on this topic. I say that, you know what? become multi-million dollar person absolutely fine but always have a clarity in your mind what kind of lifestyle you want to live what makes you happy right like if you want to if your lifestyle can be achieved in $5,000 per month don't overstress yourself just for lifestyle you know you can stay very happy with that lifestyle while you can keep on building money you can keep on building wealth big businesses you know and then if you want to spend more that's totally fine go spend more but understanding that okay fine if i have $5,000 a month then i am doing great i don't need more to actually be happy. So I think that's how I feel and think about money. I know that, what is my goal post? How much I need to make? I did some evaluation, okay. I need this car, I need this kind of house, I need this kind of thing, and this is what I need. And if I have this amount of money, okay fine, let's see if we have this kind of lifestyle for our entire life, will we be happy? You see, yeah, we will be happy. You even if we don't make more money after that point, we'll be still okay. But it doesn't mean we'll stop. We'll keep on working because that's why I'm building business. That's why I'm doing other stuff. But that money can be deployed for some other purpose. It doesn't have to be deployed for my life's sake. So as in, I don't know, that's how I feel about things. Marci Grossman (23:30) Let's No, I think that's very logical and that makes sense to create those steps and to live within that. that's great. We're gonna be wrapping up. Have you got any final wisdom you would like to share with us? Rahul (23:44) Yes, so to all those people who are very serious about financial freedom, there are a things which I always, always love to share and always, always love to tell people that, you know what? That is the first law of wealth building in my understanding. That's what I religiously follow. And that will get you started for the wealth building process. Anyone who's listening, that hey, whatever you make, set like 20 % or 10 % of your income, like no matter what, the discipline to put aside 20 % or 10 % of your income, how much you're comfortable with. It's like pay yourself. I'm pretty sure you know about it. Pay yourself. So like, you you put that money in different bank account and you don't touch it. That's the first thing. You don't touch it no matter what happens. You are living in that 80 % or 90 % of your income which is left with you. You don't touch it because what I felt is that that acts as a magic pot. That's what I That's how I say it's a magic pot. So it attracts more money. That money which you put aside in one bank account, it actually attracts more money and it keeps on attracting more money. You feel so content. You feel so abundant all the time that you always come with some new creative ideas and new creative ways to generate more money and attract more money because money has a law like if you have it it brings even more if you don't have it you know it just push away more money so that's how I feel and that you have that thing and secondly find your asset class like whatever asset you they are multiple asset class like it can be covered call it can be real estate it can be other things I don't know but find your asset class and start investing early I start investing a little bit late and I wish I could have done it earlier but you know But I would say that start putting that 10 % to 20 % in a separate bank account. And secondly, decide on your asset class as soon as possible and start buying asset as soon as possible. That's the only two things which I think is extremely important when you're looking for financial freedom. That's pretty much. Marci Grossman (25:33) That's great advice. Rahul, I appreciate you taking the time with us. Everybody out there listening, thank you for stopping by. Marci Talks Money and Life. I'm Money Marci and we'll see you next time. You got this. See ya. Rahul (25:37) Thank you. Thank you, thank you guys.